What To Do With The X-Men Movies
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
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I think X-Men is meant for TV. Long-form, serialized storytelling seems like the best way to go for the franchise.
RADubs that would be to expensive
But they can make origin series
Cem Utkan can you say Netflix Series ?
I always thought the best approach for the X-Men would be to have 40-50 minute self contained stories with the occasional 4-episode arc. In other words, just make Star Trek but with X-Men characters
The MCU almost works like a TV show anyway. Each phase is basically a season.
Micheal from Vsauce lost a lot of weight
RaYmOnDrOiD oh shit that's a top kek
W IMCOMING
RaYmOnDrOiD Ah very funny. He does look like him.
This comment should be pinned
Patrick (H) Williams! Patrick here
The X-Men movies... are one of the biggest franchises ever... or are they?
The biggest problem for an X-men movie is Wolverine. It becomes way too easy for him to become the dominate charater and X-men just a suporting cast.
i agree with this, but even so the franchise is was just handled to horribly for me to believe it can fit in the MCU.
Some of the X-men films don't even feature Wolverine at all like First Class, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix, New Mutants, and the Deadpool films. Even the first 2 films made sure that it focused on other characters besides Wolverine.
Luis Black as much as mcu fans like to change everything up for what ever reason they want wolverine the same down to the actor.
loudboy317 in the way Harry Potter focused on Ron and hermione. Lol
Finally, SOMEONE mentions Legion. I'd swear no one else watches that show, it's one of my personal favorites
Legion fan checking in. Aubrey Plaza deserved an Emmy nom, especially with that funky dancing demon scene towards the end! Honestly looking forward to The Gifted, it's removed from the chains of the regular continuity more or less, still has actual Xmen in it (even a Summers by association!) and looks like it'll have a plot that makes sense and has time to build characters. That's really been the worst part of the movies-they gave Wolvie, Xavier, and Magneto character beats then called it a day. Oh, and Scott loves Jean while she mostly lives Scott for no damn reason.
It's so wacky, but enjoyable.
It blows.
1st season: really focused good story
2nd season: a bunch of strange things happen
Honestly, I would like a movie from the Brotherhood's perspective. I want to see characters question whether they become just as terrible as their oppressors and finally realize that fighting each other sows more seeds for more fighting.
'X-Pert' nicely done
on other hand....
X-MEN(10 MOVIES SO FAR)-4.997 BILLION $$$ and gng ....7th highest grossing movie franchise of all time.....still there are 3 movies planned next year...
New mutants(x men horror movie)
www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/new_mutants/new-mutants-director-stars-announce-the-end-of-principal-photography-a153879
Deadpool 2
Dark phoenix saga....
plus x men slate confirmed proj so far(fox has released 6 untitled marvel proj release dates those dates n proj are suggested to be these confirmed proj by fox which does nt have assigned release dates)
collider.com/fox-marvel-movie-release-dates/
-new mutants sequels(as josh boone pitched this movie as trilogy)
-dark phoenix sequel(olvia munn confirm DP is a two parter movie)
-x-force
-deadpool 3
-cable spin off movie(as brolin signed fr a 4 pic x-men deal)
-Gambit(back in development)
www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/gambit/52467/gambit-gore-verbinski-in-talks-to-direct
-untitled x men project
x-men projects tht are under consideration
-alpha flight
-exiles
-Star jammers
@@vigneshwaranvicky2567 None of them are happening 😂
@@vigneshwaranvicky2567 😂😂😂
The eyeroll accompanying "Jennifer Lawrence Mystique" is epic
20:51
Bitch level 1000 👌🤣
The X-Men in the Marvel universe has always been weird for me. I love seeing Spidey and Wolverine interact, but it makes no fucking sense why the X-Men are discriminated while other heroes aren't lol.
Alex Love It kind of makes sense if you apply the bigotry angle to it.
Alex Love You have to think of it this way. Spidey and The fantastic 4 are humans with superpowers, their powers were thrusted upon them but the Xmen are mutants a new species that will one day be the dominant life. That scares humans that one day they will not matter. So, the Xmen are hunted down and feared but Spidey and F4 are not persecuted because well they are still human
Skyler Gulley, oh I totally get it. It's still stupid tho. Most of the heroes have secret identities and there no way people can know whether or not they're mutants. Way I see it, they're all people with special abilities
The only way it really makes sense is with the specific fear of mutancy as a condition -- i.e., bigots afraid their kids will be mutants, in a way they're not afraid of Thor or Iron Man. But it still doesn't really work, which is why I agree keeping them separate is better.
That was expanded upon in House of M, Civil War, etc.
Just let Wes Anderson make one.
YEAH
It's called Legion. It was great. :D
LOL
Otomic Ans Oh, you're right. Now that you say it; it kinda had an andersony-vibe.
Otomic Ans well, Legion is more of a Stanley Kubrick version of the X-Men
You know, I've come to kinda love how utterly fucked the continuity of these films became. In a way it kind of makes it the most comic booky comic book series of all the franchises. Perhaps the X-Men comics that X-23 had in Logan were the actual films we've been seeing. I just view each film - the good ones - as individual films that are only tangentially linked by vague back story. Sorta makes it like modern folklore too . . .
"I just view each film - the good ones - as individual films that are only tangentially linked by vague back story. Sorta makes it like modern folklore too . . ."
I agree. That is how I look at them too, since the continuity makes no sense anymore. I see each film as its own separate entity that might borrow some context here and there from the other films to tie them loosely together.
You see, Connor had the right idea when he said they should've continued where DOFP left off. DOFP, for the most part, fixed everything. X3 and Origins were erased. It was a new timeline which brought back the OG cast and got audiences interested again. Going to the past in apocalypse was a huge mistake.
Doing the Phoenix saga with Sansa, who made no impact in apocalypse, is beyond dumb. They should've done X-Men Evolution and introduce a new group with the OGs as supporting characters and teachers. Having new mutants and Deadpool take place in the present while the MAIN property is in the past is so stupid lmao.
Alex Love Origins isn't entirely erased. Certain parts of the film still happened like the kid Wolverine scene, the war montage, and the weapon X experiment. Cyclops in Apocalypse is reliving the same events as Origins and Quicksilver still got caught by Stryker.
H.D Beird
Movies
H.D Beird Having all the bad parts of a comic, with little of the good doesn't sound like a good tradeoff.
Answer: 1. Give the property to someone who can utilize the source material to its full potential. They have a universe that is huge and can be expanded upon so immensely...but yet, they do nothing. Another thing they need to do is, FOCUS ON THE TEAM. First Class was the only one that did this.
I just want them to do Nightcrawler right. He's my favorite and I wish I could see charming swashbuckler Kurt with a heart of gold instead of Catholic Guilt and Funny Foreigner
I know everybody says X-Men "changed everything," but can we really be sure? The first movie was more of a '90s action flick that featured superheroes. I would argue Spider-Man, which was totally cool with featuring the silly side of superhero comics, was much more of a watershed moment for the "superhero genre" (whatever that even means anymore). It wasn't trying to blend in with any genres, it was purely its own creation, which I think made much more of an impact.
Go back and read articles about the industry after X-Men was a hit. It IMMEDIATELY changed things. Daredevil came out in 2003, meaning it was in development way before Spider-Man was released.
What about Blade that was the first super hero movie after Batman and Robin
DevilJin He mentions blade in the video. Not many people even realised that it was a superhero movie or that it was based off of comics.
Patrick (H) Willems For Daredevil all they did was put a half mask and a motorcycle leather suit (pretty much the same as X-men only red) on him. It was in the same vein as X-men. And isn't Daredevil Fox? It wasn't about changing things, but more about losing those rights. Same with F4. And the only reason they wore those uniforms was because Spider-man did it. I think Blade opened up the execs heads about using comics again after Spawn and Steel. The Matrix helped and burdened X-men with its style.
Spider-man was the one that open the doors wide open showing that you could bring in those things that Schumacher's Batman movies tried to do and do them relatively right (friggin Goblin costume and organic shooters).
DevilJin Batman and Robin shot CBM movies. Two months later, Spawn and Steel curb stumped it.
i hate how gambit never got introduced nor did jubilee. and i was mad when rogue got cut.
Hard reboot. Twenty years of film, out the window. Gone. Make allusion to it having existed if you want to, maybe in the same vein as the comment about Wolverine's blue and gold spandex costume in the first X-Men.
Emulate the idea of X-Men Evolution in that you have your core team (your Cyclops, Jean Grey, Professor X and Storm) already there and established with some introductory dialogue with your young adult true main protagonist (your Kitty Pryde, Jubilation, Rogue, etc.).
Don't just immediately jump to Magneto, ease us into the character, build him up with dialogue from Xavier without showing us Magneto. Maybe something like your protagonist asking Xavier why his school exists, why with all their mutant powers they're expected to play nice with regular people, and Xavier mentions having an old friend who thought that way once and the two of them couldn't see eye to eye on the subject. When the inevitable "Government attempts to out mutants" occurs, then we get Magneto accompanied by Mystique reveal.
The film's probably going to end up being a vehicle for some message about how all people, mutant or not, regardless of race, religion, etc. are the same, and ends with a kind of backing off due to Magneto's respect for Xavier as an old friend with several new mutants (some young adult, other older) arriving at the mansion to hint at more characters being introduced in the sequel. Your end credits scene would probably be similar, but with people already disillusioned by the way they're treated siding with Magneto to form the Brotherhood.
Rathalos Soul I would have the Morlocks be the X-men's first villains as they are not huge or blockbuster they are like an underground runaway Mutant group
a reboot is a dumb idea. it really, really is. you can still make movies that ignore the MCU and focus on comic stories. stop the reboots. i swear if i'm 60 years old and they do a harry potter reboot it will be a disaster then too. please, for the love of stars and garters, don't do a reboot.
Reboots are a dumb idea, I agree, and a lot of them just amount to "Well, this didn't perform well and we think we can do it better this time" or "This won't resonate well with audiences in a way that will make us the most money." But with the cinematic X-Men, for as long as it's gone one and how muddled the continuity is, not to mention so many actors having left the franchise, a reboot may not be the worst idea provided it's handled well. There's the multiverse. Infinite possibilities. Depending on what story from what era from what universe you decide to adapt into a two or three hour film, they could potentially even do a soft reboot where it's in the established MCU canon occurring alongside events of previous movies but from a perspective that fills in some holes or even fleshes out existing films.
hm, interesting take!
You literally took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm fine with Fox handling the Xmen, the movies are fine, and Logan And DOFP are some of the greatest CBM of all time. But I think it's time Fox sells the Fantastic four rights to marvel. They can't get that right in a million years
All it takes is one good one. I say make a sequel to the 2015 one, and just make the movie they set up at the end. It could be good.
I. Th. That isn't fair to say. Fantastic Four had a lot of great pulpy space adventure comics in the 60's and have many great Jack kirby elements to them. I think if people focus more on that, then they can get a good movie that would be very different from most other films. And I don't see why that dynamic won't work. A similar dynamic worked wonders in the Incredibles movie.
FF needs a serious Doctor Strange (movie) treatment - it's own solo thing in the MCU (Fox does good X-men when they get it right, but OP is right, they utterly fail at the very MCU feel of FF) where it explores the weirder more science-y parts of the universe no other superhero is ever even going to concieve of.
For instance, have them become the FF in the normal way but during the event where they get their powers immediately send the four of them through a ride through different dimensions travelling through impossible seeming planets and with crazy dangers trying to get home - all while trying to just get along as a family. And once they do, after finding some great threat to all the dimensions and defeating it, have them come together back at the bacster building now determined to safeguard the people of earth from the unknown threats.
Fox just can't make a good story that's the same sort of weird that the MCU's cosmic universe has already achieved.
+Remith Argornash
I do agree that FF would be great with the visual aspects of Doctor Strange but with more of that 60's pulpy science-y planet hoping aspect. I think that your idea would be so awesome to see!
Though I would have to disagree with incorporating them with the MCU. While I don't mind the MCU movies, they should be more risky with a FF movie. The MCU tends to play it extremely safe with their stories and ideas. I want to get that cool 60's pulp theme, and MCU movies are kind of afraid to experiment with different feels and themes in their movies.
I never said X-Men should be in the MCU, I agree completely with you. I was talking about the Fantastic four - It's tone is more light-hearted adventure style stuff.
Excited to watch this.
I ask you this every video, but could you cover Spider-Man Homecoming and Moonlight in the future in some capacity?
Excited to watch Patrick's works, but when i sew you, definitely not existed to see you around.
Revisting this while i'm on a connor's podcast binge and this is a crazy cameo, houston
I think any future x-men installments should hold off on Wolverine. BUT if they do include wolverine he CAN NOT be a main character. Hot take here but wolverine is at his best as a side character. I want no explanation for his presence in the x-men. No introduction no weapon x. Nothing more than “this is the wild stinky man we found in the woods outback the school. We made the mistake of letting him inside and feeding him so lives here now I guess. The kids like him for some reason.” I want the X-men to treat wolverine like a feral cat they found in the gutter. Sure they love him but they also don’t pay him and he’s only part of the team on technicality. He is not a teacher at the school AT BEST he is a security guard. But in reality he is just the worlds most violent baby sitter.
The one thing i love about the pre mcu superhero films is how they dont feel like superhero films. They are action/drama movies which happen to have costumed heroes in them. I'd love to see more superhero movies that dont feel like they need to fit in a superhero drama, but exist more on their own. Black Panther almost got there, Spider-Man Homecoming did A GREAT job of being a coming of age story (its my fav in the MCU so far, for a good reason), and of course the original Iron Man didnt realize that its tone would be a blueprint for a whole genre of cinema
I like this guy. I appreciate the way he talks about the franchise in a level headed, non fanboy way.
I don't like the idea of X-Men in the MCU--they've always been the outliers of the Marvel universe in the comics and really it's way too late to integrate them in the wider Marvel universe. They work best separate from the rest.
alexh4319 unless they do some sort of wide-range chemical thing that can "create" mutants (maybe something similar to what happened to scarlet witch and quicksilver)
alexh4319 Also Fox seems to actually take risks. Even shit like fantastic four was a risk.Logan and Deadpool were very successful risks.
Firstname Lastname Thats pretty much why the Inhumans are coming out now. They have the Terrigen Mists that could make people become Inhumans and give them powers or mutations. I also dont want this to be in the MCU actually.
simon amorim Logan and Deadpool would not exist in the MCU.
Even then the X-Men's whole theme-the thing that defines that franchise is that their ostracized for being different and that theme becomes ineffective or greatly diminished when they are in a universe where superheroes are celebrated and loved; which therefore makes the populace look like total hypocrites. The X-Men always felt like its own section of the universe independent from the rest of the Marvel universe in the comics.
I honestly think that a good way to "fix" the timeline in the franchise is to have Deadpool show up at the beginning of the next X-Men movie and tell the audience to ignore everything from the other X-Men movies except for "Deadpool" and just start everything again.
How would you fix the X-Men franchise? Or do you think it's fine the way it is? Let us know!
Patrick (H) Willems I seriously doubt anyone would say it's fine the way it is lol.
Patrick (H) Willems
I'd focus on more abstract and creative separate stories. (I.e. New mutants with X-23) and embrace movies with a more classic X-Men tone (embrace the tone of the X-Men cartoon).
Neil Fernandes I think they're fine. I just think Apocalypse and Days of future past were really awful in comparisson of how great and refreshing First Class was. But marvel and dc have had big misses as well. Batman v superman was shit and so was age of ultron
Days of Future Past is one of the greatest comic-book movies of all time, imo. Apocalypse on the other hand is pretty terrible.
Assuming Fox Studios will not change the Phoenix plot, I personally think they should borrow the character building ideas and the awesome character interaction they used from the first half of X2, throw that into a dark, apocalyptic world consumed with death and hopelessness like we saw in XMen DOFP (due to damage caused by Dark Phoenix), and start off movie showing how much FUN it is to be IN the XMen and how great of a family Jean Grey and her pals have become, then slowly transform her into an entity that puts all the fun and family we see at the start of the movie in so jeopardy, such that only great personal sacrifice can repair the damage done.
Hyped to watch this. After Logan, I honestly believe that Fox should move away from the core characters and focus on the new mutants we saw at Logan and tell some new stories in new worlds.
The Joss Whedon X-Men comic is one of my favorites. If they adapted that, especially if they got Whedon to direct it, I guarantee it would be the best X-Men movie ever made. At least, best movie about the whole team, not just wolverine or Deadpool.
Ultra Nerd exactly. That's what i think
Mmhmm, Jeremy Jahns points out that he knows how to take a bunch of characters, and make them all relevant and make u care for them!
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Agreed!
Ultra Nerd I agree that the Astonishing X-Men series is the best
I wrote a reboot screenplay. Here was what I did:
What I saw in Deadpool was Wade talking about the X-Men movies as though that's what they were in his world...just movies based on characters that actually existed in his world.
I took the Colossus character that we saw in DP and built a new X-Men franchise based on him.
The X-Men I wrote about are the ones who exist in Deadpool's cinematic universe, not the Bryan Singer version. And, they are 100% faithful to the comic book.
It runs about 2h20m with 2 after credit scenes that set up 2 separate franchises.
Here's are some examples:
1. Jean Grey is Marvel Girl, and not an important character "yet". The Phoenix Force is not her mutation.
2. Wolverine wears the yellow and blue suit.
3. Mystique is not THE main character.
Sorry, but I disagree with the idea that the Xmen do best why sectioned off. While most of the best x-men stories are absolutely just the x-men, the individual characters, (especially Wolverine, Beast, Storm, and I'm going to include Deadpool), are best when interacting with the larger marvel universe.
@Hocker Well, he/they said X-Men, not the individual team.
As a Cerebrocast listener coming in years late... shocked-not-shocked for Candy Southern to make an appearance.
I wish they didn't go with those black leather suits in the X-Men movies. Add a little color!!! They are still using the darker colors now!!!
Ethan K. But they are moving towards the colorful/more classic comic look in First Class, Days of Future Past, Apocalypse and Deadpool so it might be very likely if they continue that trend
At the end of Apocalypse the main team at the time got new more colorful/comic accurate suits.
If a young pyrokinetic girl POV character is always required, I think I can accept Negasonic Teenage Warhead going forward.
rubino 83 Won't happen but it might be fun. Part of the problem is her powers aren't clear so it's hard to get attached when you don't understand her. Wolverine = angry man with knife hands that heals, simple to grasp.
That was so random lol. And i don't think she is particularly likeable as a pov character. She rolls her eyes at everything
This video was great Patrick, your thoughts as well as Connor's were solid. Keep up the great content!
on other hand....
X-MEN(10 MOVIES SO FAR)-4.997 BILLION $$$ and gng ....7th highest grossing movie franchise of all time.....still there are 3 movies planned next year...
New mutants(x men horror movie)
www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/new_mutants/new-mutants-director-stars-announce-the-end-of-principal-photography-a153879
Deadpool 2
Dark phoenix saga....
plus x men slate confirmed proj so far(fox has released 6 untitled marvel proj release dates those dates n proj are suggested to be these confirmed proj by fox which does nt have assigned release dates)
collider.com/fox-marvel-movie-release-dates/
-new mutants sequels(as josh boone pitched this movie as trilogy)
-dark phoenix sequel(olvia munn confirm DP is a two parter movie)
-x-force
-deadpool 3
-cable spin off movie(as brolin signed fr a 4 pic x-men deal)
-Gambit(back in development)
www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/gambit/52467/gambit-gore-verbinski-in-talks-to-direct
-untitled x men project
x-men projects tht are under consideration
-alpha flight
-exiles
-Star jammers
Why is Sophe Turner a draw? She's not a good actress. They need to ditch JLaw too. She seemed to forget to act in the last movie and they've made her character really bland now she's become a hero too.
rodster6 she didn't forget how to act, she stop caring for the roll.
Did she ever know how to act ? I don't see a difference tbh
Rebecca Romijn was a better version of the character because she cared.
Want to know how to fix the continuity. All the X-Men Fox films are from the Mojoverse. All are fictional films within a film.
As much as i'm really love X-Men films, you're making an excellent point
Hell i don't even want to watch about Jennifer Lawrence led the group and she's "important" character for the franchise, like nobody cares
I wouldn't be surprised if they just eventually try to rap it up and just go for a straight reboot. I think it's too hard to change course after dropping the ball with the potential left after DoFP and Apocalypse.
Maybe they'll just straight up change series. I'm still holding out hope for a Remender's X-Force adaptation.
The more you guys spoke, the better it got. Great stuff that we all have been begging FOX to do
Awesome video! Keep up the great work my friend
Bruh upload something
Gubz, long time no see
You should do an update version of this, now that the X-Men will be shifting into the MCU. I know neither of you particularly want that (and personally I agree) but how do you want it to play out now that it seems to be happening?
I dig the music on the title sequences. Also, love Connor's intense knowledge of the X-Men universe!
I think X-Men Apocalypse should have taken place with the original cast, and been the last movie with them. I mean the term “Apocalypse” literally means the end lol, so it fits. If they wanted to go back in the past, it should have been to show that maybe they had heard of him when they were younger or something, so like the story threads could have been connected via flashbacks. Then it builds up to this big confrontation in the future where some of them die (as Beast said in DOFP, time resets itself or whatever) so now instead of sentinels it’s this super powerful ancient mutant that’s killing off mutants with his horseman.
Imagine Old Xavier seeing Wolverine get brainwashed into being a horseman and him being emotionally torn apart by the concept of having to fight someone who was like a son to him. The emotional conflict would have been at all time high with everything going on, and it could have been a great ending to that phase and paved the way for the new generation.
But instead, we got a hamfisted setup for the phoenix story. Nice job guys.
Dark Phoenix is coming out in 2018 btw
Rene Meyer yup. He probably got mixed up with New Mutants which I believe is coming out in 2019.
That's also 2018
Ah my bad. Then is it the Deadpool movie coming out in 2019? Or that's next year too...?
Neil Fernandes that's also 2018. Its confusing, I know
Nice! So 3 X-movies next year! Seriously hope Phoenix is any good. Apocalypse was so disappointing.
My explanation for why they look the same age in the 80s as they did in the 60s is the same explanation you get for why Peter Parker has only aged a few years since the 60s even though he should probably be in his 70s or 80s and that explanation is "comics"
First Class mentioned that Mystique's shapeshifting abilities make her age slower than any normal person (she'll still have the body of a teenage girl even if she were 75). When Beast used her blood to create a cure for himself, it not only accelerated his mutation, he inherited her de-aging ability in the process which is why he stayed young. For Xavier, the serum that helped him walk again also had side effects like hair loss and rapid aging thus explaining why he already looks like Patrick Stewart in both the X3 flashback scene and X-men Origins: Wolverine. When Wolverine convinced him to stop taking the serum in Days of Future Past, it meant that Xavier wouldn't age that much anymore so he remains looking like James McAvoy for Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix. Lastly, the comic books showed Magneto using the earth's magnetic fields to regenerate his body which allowed him to retain his youthful appearance so that would be how he stayed young in the movies.
I know you guys said the odds are low that any of this stuff will actually happen, but with Disney acquiring Fox, I think it might actually be a possibility. Disney isn't exactly shy about completely rebooting newly acquired properties if they don't think they're working.
Great job!! Really enjoyed this.
I think the current X-Men universe is generally a mess, with the exception of Deadpool (which works so well because of how much love Ryan Reynolds has for the character) Logan (which we won't get more of because Hugh Jackman has retired from the role). While the fixes you mentioned in the video would be great, especially establishing a POV character, I think it would be even better to do that AND include the X-Men in the MCU. The MCU has people actually passionate about these characters, which leads to success (like I said about Ryan Reynolds). Plus we'd get to finally see characters like Wolverine interact with the Avengers, or Storm interact with Black Panther. Regardless of whether or not this ever happens though, whatever X-Men content that comes out is sure to be better than Sony's cash-grab Spider-Verse movies (Sony makes me sad)
The Nerd Corps I don't agree on X-Men being part of MCU, but the rest are great points.
Also, the Sony's Spiderverse is very going to be messy.
Yea, Sony only cares about the money. The money is important, because studios have to make money after all, but they should make movies for love of the characters and for the audience who loves them and wants to see them done right on the silver screen. Plus, how do you execute a Spider-Verse with no actual Spider-Man. Venom is a great character, but it's hard to establish him properly without any Spidey to kick things off. The Black Cat and Silver Sable movies are gonna be even worse off though
I agree with you. It would be absolutely amazing to see a new Wolverine and new X-Men in the MCU. I mean, imagine Wolverine and the Hulk fighting it out on the big screen!
RanceSali aww that would be amazing to see at the start of an avengers movie or something
I kinda agree with you on the X-Men. I would want them to be given back to Marvel but I wouldn't want them to be introduced this late in the MCU. A reboot by Marvel in the future when the MCU ends is what I'd look forward to.
They're gonna blow it with New Mutants by not having Cypher as a POV character. He's basically the Human Stain of mutants (he's got a power, but it's hard to tell that he does) and would make an excellent every man character around all of these hot headed teens. You can have him start off feeling completely useless, but then using his seemingly mundane powers to do something great and prove himself to the team. Kind of like what they TRIED to do in Hellboy with John Meyers (Which clearly should've been Kate Corrigan), but failed to pull off.
It doesn't have to CENTER around him, but he's a perfect entry level character that has gotten shit on by terrible top 10 worst mutants lists. When he died, you felt the emotional weight because he was just a kid trying to really push himself to be part of this team. I'd also make him legitimately dorky, instead of casting a good looking kid. Get like that weird Ryan Lee kid with from Goosebumps to play him.
I agree. I've never understood all the Doug Ramsey hate. He's actually one of my favorite characters & I hate that Louise Simonson killed him off cuz she said "everyone hated him." She just didn't know what to do with him, which honestly boggles my mind. Here's the thing: Not everyone needs to shoot plasma blasts or whatever. I like the idea of levels of abilities. A real-world, grounded power like his could've made him an essential part of the team. He's super smart & a nerd. Keep him happy staying at the X-Mansion & being a type of info liaison during missions. Have him linked psionically to Cerebro. Have him take over caring for Lockheed. Whatever. The only writer who got him right was Zeb Wells. His powers as written by Wells (the idea that "everything" is a language) was brilliant: he would 'read' fighting styles to counter-fight, he could 'read' architectural engineering to find construction weaknesses. He could read body language to tell when people lied. Etc. I'm really happy that Cypher's run didn't end w Simonson's handling of him, but that we got a brilliant return of him with Wells.
all great points,
awesome video!
Sounds pretty great! I love all of your videos! Connor was cool, I'd be down with seeing him in more videos! Think you can pitch the Doctor Doom movie next?
Why do they have to do another dark phoenix saga? The X-Men franchise has so many other great unused stories, why not adapt one of those for the big screen?
The introduction of the Shi'ar empire would really shake things up. Gives the X-men a greater presence. I also really agree with the idea that we are past the blind bigotry and hiding. The mutants should just be the minority and go on with a plot that isn't kill them all or exterminate.
Love your content Patrick! Keep it up!
Days of the Future Past is one of my favourite superhero movies
on other hand....
X-MEN(10 MOVIES SO FAR)-4.997 BILLION $$$ and gng ....7th highest grossing movie franchise of all time.....still there are 3 movies planned next year...
New mutants(x men horror movie)
www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/new_mutants/new-mutants-director-stars-announce-the-end-of-principal-photography-a153879
Deadpool 2
Dark phoenix saga....
plus x men slate confirmed proj so far(fox has released 6 untitled marvel proj release dates those dates n proj are suggested to be these confirmed proj by fox which does nt have assigned release dates)
collider.com/fox-marvel-movie-release-dates/
-new mutants sequels(as josh boone pitched this movie as trilogy)
-dark phoenix sequel(olvia munn confirm DP is a two parter movie)
-x-force
-deadpool 3
-cable spin off movie(as brolin signed fr a 4 pic x-men deal)
-Gambit(back in development)
www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/gambit/52467/gambit-gore-verbinski-in-talks-to-direct
-untitled x men project
x-men projects tht are under consideration
-alpha flight
-exiles
-Star jammers
I've got to agree with some of the other comments: you kind of went from 'X-men was the watershed' to 'and then came Nolan's Batman & Iron-Man', skipping over Spider-Man, which was probably _the_ watershed release (along with its sequel) that thrust comic book films to the cultural fore - even if X-men set the stage for it. (sorta interesting that both the X-Men & Spider-Man trilogies have similar trajectories, in that the first two were decent-to-awesome, and the third basically sucked).
on other hand....
X-MEN(10 MOVIES SO FAR)-4.997 BILLION $$$ and gng ....7th highest grossing movie franchise of all time.....still there are 3 movies planned next year...
New mutants(x men horror movie)
www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/new_mutants/new-mutants-director-stars-announce-the-end-of-principal-photography-a153879
Deadpool 2
Dark phoenix saga....
plus x men slate confirmed proj so far(fox has released 6 untitled marvel proj release dates those dates n proj are suggested to be these confirmed proj by fox which does nt have assigned release dates)
collider.com/fox-marvel-movie-release-dates/
-new mutants sequels(as josh boone pitched this movie as trilogy)
-dark phoenix sequel(olvia munn confirm DP is a two parter movie)
-x-force
-deadpool 3
-cable spin off movie(as brolin signed fr a 4 pic x-men deal)
-Gambit(back in development)
www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/gambit/52467/gambit-gore-verbinski-in-talks-to-direct
-untitled x men project
x-men projects tht are under consideration
-alpha flight
-exiles
-Star jammers
Joss Whedon's run on Amazing X-Men was just amazing. Everything you talk about, Kitty as the POV character, soap opera stuff, is there; with Whedon's great humor.
The costumes had some universality to them but Logan had the Wolverine costume and everybody was distinct.
The character roster was awesome too, like you talked about: Cyclops, Wolverine, Emma Frost, Kitty Pryde, Beast, Colossus.
Great Video dude! Glad your getting sponsors and stuff
In terms of PoV characters, clearly Wolverine was effective in Logan, and I would argue that Mystique was also fairly effective in First Class. Barring those two films (and the two obnoxious Wolverine spin-offs) we've never really had X-Men films with consistent PoV characters. I think that one element being consistent would dramatically help the quality of these movies.
Get Connor to write the MCU reboot
FOX relied way too much on Logan, Magneto, and Prof. X for the movies. X3, DOFP, Apocalypse, and Dark Phoenix did not need them at all but they were made main characters.
Great video Patrick!
What a great discussion and hilarious too!
i always kinda thought of blade as a hero. i would want someone to save me from vampires with violence... :)
HAVE WES ANDERSON DIRECT
Perfect reading of the world of the x-men..and also excellent layout for a reboot of the series.. well done!!
9:24 The Asgardian Saga is probably my favorite X-story ever! Thank-you for mentioning it.
Welp. Watching this after the merger now feels strange
I have been meaning to watch this for months, and I finally got around to it. This is a great idea for the Fox made X-Men franchise!
But now, with all these currents talks with Disney acquiring some of these assets and IPs from Fox, talks of where X-Men is headed are more relevant than ever! I would love to see Connor back to talk about this (he reminds me so much of my comic-encyclopedia friend!)
Specifically, do you think Marvel should integrate the mutants into the MCU - or is it too late with all the time spent ret-conning in the inhumans? AND if they were to introduce the X-Men into their current universe, how would you like to see it done??
Cheers guys!
I think X2 is the perfect blend of comic booky and grounded realism. And is one of the most under rated super hero movies.
Jake Jones the last movie Fox got right, IMO.
Agreed.
yooooo this is the dopest discussion about x men and what it means to culture and social norms. this was a well crafted talk. thank you!!!!!!!
I...i actually like X-leather jackets....
Hey vsauce fake Michael here
Totally agree with the Morrison interpretation. He's gotten some complaints about "Ruining Magneto". But he created pretty weird world that fit the X-Men well.
Fantastic and knowledgeable guest, as aware of the themes as the trivia.
i call bs on the no cosplays of the fox designs. Hugh's wolverine alone is a hugely popular cosplay. My only nitpick on talking points haha
Sure, but they've never in a uniform. Just, like, a shirt or jacket or no shirt.
Patrick (H) Willems yeah, which is why it's a nitpick more than anything on my part haha
Patrick (H) Willems I've seen quite a bit of cosplayers in the leather X-men costumes or the x-films
Watching this after Dark Phoenix... you guys were right. But everybody already knew it was a massive mistake to make. Which is why it made no money. I'd like to see an update for prognostication on how Feige can integrate into the MCU.
Young Justice did one of the things you mentioned. Third season is on the way. In each season, the “Titans” has been comprised of a younger team, while the older ones have adopted mentor roles. It keeps rotating the core cast. It’s been cool so far.
Hey, Don't make fun of "have you tried not being a mutant" as a lesbian that was a moment where I felt like the X-men movies really got being an invisible minority.
hey Patrick please do a how to fix the Fantastic Four movies, that would be a really awesome and informative video to see
I did. Months ago.
Patrick (H) Willems I fucking love that video
Thanks dude!
he already did
Connor knows his stuff, as a life-long X-fan, he answered everything like a true X-fan would.
Don't know a lot about x men beyond the movies but damn do I love to see two knowledgeable people analyse and think up ways to make stuff better!
Costume changes are less about what audiences will respond to, and more about executives being ashamed of fun, kiddy colours. When audiences pay to see a superhero movie, they're 100% picturing the colourful costumes from the comics, nobody cares what the heroes are dressed like.
I love all this constructive stuff. I've been seeing too much cynicism for cynicism's sake all over the internet lately and i needed to hear from people express their enjoyment of something and try to actually fix its flaws. Thank you! ❤
IMO X-Men should not go to Marvel. X-Men, X-Men 2, Logan, Deadpool, First Class, Days of Future Past, and The Wolverine are all at least 8/10. As long as Fox doesn't fuck it up and they keep making good movies I'll be happy. But I definitely think they need a hard reboot, they made the original trilogy without really planning out the future films. They should start fresh, fix the mistakes they've made, and plan a timeline in advance.
Boba Fett I think the problem they had was removing Hugh Jackman from the main story without establishing another POV character, because (despite what they say it doesn't haven't to be a young girl) Wolverine was our POV for the first four or five movies (First class it was maybe Xavier) but now, starting with Apocalypse, no one is really our focal point, and there isn't REALLY a main character
Or they could give the rights back to Marvel and let THEM start afresh. Better idea.
Also, The Wolverine an 8/10? Really?
^The only real bad thing about that movie is the final fight. The first 2 acts are really great. I'd give it like a solid 7. It's not a bad film. The climax just prevented it from being really great.
if those movies are 8/10. most mcu movies are 5/10.
those movies are superior to all of the mcu movies.
marvel movies are cgi brainless crap.
X2, DOFP and Logan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all mcu movies.
please mcu movies dont even have a plot.
1bulma1 grammy, looks like we found a blind fanboy. If you think every MCU film is "CGI brainless crap" that has no plot, then you're not really watching.
You don't have to like them, but to say that they have no substance whatsoever is insane. Iron Man, Guardians, Winter Soldier, Spider-Man, etc., are good films.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH Patrick! Been waitin' for new stuff from You!
Have an immediate upvote because I know I'm about to have some gooooood time now.
Just wanted to let You know.
Gonna watch the vid now
Xavier is not British. They just cast Patrick Stewart because he looks like the comic book illustrations and now everything thinks Prof X is British. He's from Westchester County, NY.
That said, I think Mark Strong (sans the British accent!) would be a good Charles Xavier.
Deadpool is Unique to the Fox X-MEN franchise because Deapool is a New Character whose a SOLO character not really connected to X-MEN lore & his creator helped directly with the movie. But Chris Claremont cannot help 20TH CENTURY FOX & Fox cannot USE the actual source comicbooks for their SORRY RENDITIONS of X-Men until they share with DISNEY so I say boycott all 20th century FOX X-MEN MOVIES until they renegotiate with DISNEY like Sony & Universal Studios has done!
Don't do this.
I GET what you MEAN, DEADPOOL would NEVER work in X-MEN.
Sell them to Disney. And the Fantastic 4.
Problem solved.
You and your guest hit the nail on the head, wow.
Addressing the points as they come, except from the point of view of hard rebooting the franchise:
1 - POV character) Start the franchise over, and make this character Jean Grey. This gives us a Cape Citadel fight against Magneto and a solid introduction to our protagonists - and their home! - , which is something I felt the originals lacked. We'd also give a damn about her when bad stuff happens to her. And blue/gold costumes.
2 - Soap opera elements) Show Xavier's recruitment of his first class of students - Cyclops from a life of crime, Bobby from a lynch mob, Warren from a misbegotten vigilante life, and Hank from a "normal" school background that is too slow for him. Introduce Scot and Jean's romance - heck, throw in Warren as a rival - and make us believe that the characters give a crap about each other.
3 - Go big) Heck yeah. Colorful costuming, Danger Room, Stratojet, classic Rocky training montage, the whole works. As far as integration goes, mutants were largely unknown for quite a while in the comics, and they can be treated largely the same way Inhumans have in the MCU, with little challenge. Keep the overall mutant population small to begin with, and make us care about their plight.
4 - Update/Modernize the Plight) Subvert it with the Cape Citadel fight making live news feeds, showing the X-Men as heroes, and Magneto as villain. We immediately get a public eye on this new species of humanity, complete with its built in dichotomy of peaceful integration/supremacy, which, in turn can be over-analyzed by the news pundits within the world. We already live in a culture where many people accept their opinions being fed to them by a media that enjoys divisiveness. Use that as a storytelling narrative.
5 - Asthetics) This just comes down to not being afraid to be a little comic bookish. It's not difficult to do, it was just a reaction to "possible" backlash or not being taken seriously that the black leather outfits were used. I think the audience is past that now.
6 - The Core Cast) I think I've pretty well addressed this, but let's add an epilogue scene with Magneto recruiting his Brotherhood originals - Blob, Unus, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, and Mastermind - along with another featuring the X-Men detecting a mutant signature and taking off for the isolated South Pacific island.... Krakoa. Start the next movie in the series with Xavier recruiting the ANAD X-Men, then flashback that island adventure.
7 - What about continuity?) Screw it. Hard Reboot.
Please. For the love of God. Button up your shirt
Domino looks exactly like the comics...
Assuming we are all color blind here, what about the hair?
Sorry, it's about racism or anything. I am not against the casting choice(well, I don't like the hair design. Also they could have used body paint like Gamora.)
I don't need to be racist to see the difference, sorry, I accept changes in comic book movies, but first at least people should recognize it's changes from comics, instead of "hey, it's exactly like in the comics."
Well, the rest of the content is very solid. So I just assume it mean "similar enough".
Simon Shephard I mean making Gamora green when Zoe is a black actress and making a black actress white would not work. I think general audiences would really take that the wrong way and blacks would be offended (me being black I think that would be the outcome of that choice)
oh awesome, I'm defitnely going to check it out thank you and great video on how to fix the X-men I really enjoyed it
Make a podcast! I could listen to this stuff for hours
The X-Men aren't broken. You don't need to fix anything. In the seventeen years they've been making X-Men movies they've only had two really bad ones, The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Everyone movie that has come out since those two bad ones has been either good or great.
Clothy22 X-men the last stand, X-men origins, The Wolverine, and X-men Apocalypse were really bad and believe X-men apocalypse was the least successful in the X-men franchise. While the rest are solid films the only standout movies are Deadpool, Logan, and X-men days of future past. And even the first two X-men films had problems Rouge being really boring Cyclops being a one note character also his powers were wrong etc.
I loved The Wolverine, especially that extended edition. I also thought the first film was really good, yet overlooked and was actually a really well-balanced story between a cast of characters (though Rogue and Wolverine were the POV characters) they did well in a pre-Avengers type of story.
@J-Rich How is The Wolverine really bad?
Besides that, neither Origins or The Wolverine are X-Men films, they're Wolverine film.
So, you've only one new example to add to what @Clothy22 said: Apocalypse, because it's an X-Men film.
They're mostly mediocre movies with fewer that are actually great.
Reboot it, pretend like it never happened or you're in a new universe or whatever. We've had the same stories replay over and over along with the visuals which look pretty dull. It's been basically 20 years, do something fresh with it. I want to see a different take/direction. I was hoping First Class would set that up but it didn't. Enjoyable movies, but not really the jump I was looking for or think it needs.
Yay can't wait for the progressive Xmen...
Jammin1120 tautology
Aren’t they meant to be progressive to begin with?
I agree with a lot you said, but I think movies can work pretty good on their own too, for example I watched winter soldier before the first avenger and it still worked and impressed me, meaning that a dark phoenix movie can also work, if it is well made. Movie series don't necerssarily need to take guidelines from the narrative of comic book series.
And i loved the AvX run. That avengers and x-men crossover was awesome. Would love to see that event on the big screen with all effects and stuff.
Constantly comic book nerds are saying how this or that storyline came too early, like here them saying that two movies just isn't enough to set up for the majesty of the Dark Phoenix story. Funny, because for almost the entire history of cinema one movie has been plenty to set up plots, make us care for characters, and have all that pay off IN THE SAME MOVIE.
SamStancill I think the real problem arises in the fact that they try to cram multiple stories into one movie, which is why BVS doesn't work, these multiple gargantuan stories cannot be contained in one movie.
Obsession with continuity will be the death of film franchises.
SamStancill But no one cares about Sophie Tuner's Jean grey, Like the guy said in the video she wasn't even one of the main character's of Apocalypse.
@SamStancill I do feel they set it up grand in the original trilogy, between Scott and Jean, the X-Men, Jean herself, but failed in X-Men 3.
I feel it's too early for THIS Jean, THIS Scott, THIS X-Men.
Morrison's ideas are nearly impossible to adapt, they are weird, alien and sometimes just very dumb. Whenever someone tries to adapt them we end up with nonsense like Batman v Superman. Don't encourage this please.
You make great points.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video I hope Fox Studio that makes X-Men will watch this and make major changes to their future movies