Once again Deni does an excellent job seeking the issues ( time, trauma and record keeping, i.e calendar stick), regarding the topic at hand. A correlate is then made with an O'odham elder to increase the validity of her theory. Good job, Deni!
Good stuff. On one hand i agree, generally. On the other, I disagree with the narrative, as it were. I'm Comanche. Our interaction with the Spaniards went differently. From them we became arguably the best Light Calvary fighters that have ever mounted on horseback. This myth of the Peaceful, Noble Native is just that - a Myth. The various tribes and bands of those tribes preyed, fought, took lands and "colonized" other tribes long before the Spaniards ever knew how to navigate the oceans. Part of me is a little saddened that we all were conquered and assimilated. We all wonder 'what couldve been.' But let's be real and intellectually honest: what culture and 'tribe' on Earth has not been invaded and assimilated? Lol, even the Spaniards were coming off of hundreds of years of invasion and assimilation by the Moors and Romans before them. So without context of world history at the time, it looks especially worse and agregious. Viewing world history IN context, though, it shows a pattern of Human behavior.... not just behavior from people on one continent (Europe). They just happened to have some technology and invention on their side and had an edge. I'm proud of my people. Im proud that they fought until they no longer could. The last nation to be conquered. ALL that history makes me who i am today. Good things can come from bad decisions. We're all living proof.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. Stay tuned. The Sobaipuri O'odham we're not peaceful and docile, as the narrative says. I've shown through my research that they were the best warriors in the region; they were feared even by the Apaches. All the other groups in the historic period asked for peace, as long as the Spaniards would protect them against the Sobaipuri. That's why the outcome of this battle at this town site is not surprising. They were formidable warriors who went up against the Spaniards and won. If you look at the first video I posted, Who Are the Sobaipuri O'odham, you will see that's how they got their name from other O'odham. It turns out their past is very different than they were taught, e.g., the colonial narrative. Perhaps I'll do a video specifically on their warrior capabilities. You are right however that this tells about human behavior. Humans have always been trying to conquer one another. It's rare indeed when everyone gets along. Thanks for the conversation
They were not there at that time marcos de niza tells a different story about this part of the journey ,the people who settled north of casa grande were not indians and indians stayed away from them till they left in 1540 then indians settled back in maricopa ,but coronado went through queen valley ,and not theough the phoenix area
@@martinstanley1231 sorry. Nope. It looks like he went right through O'odham territory and met many villagers. He tells us he did. Read the document he left and then get back to me. We have so many archaeological sites now that we know at least part of the route and it is clearly in O'odham territory. Follow the evidence.
I would not bet my life on any theory at this point, Santa Cruz , San Pedro, San Simon, ……. Kayendal,chichitalcali,point of pines, casas grandes, kinishba, ……. Anywhere but from morenci To Luna/Alpine Arizona….heck of a mountain range.
@@manso998 I would not bet my life on any theory at this point, Santa Cruz , San Pedro, San Simon, ……. Kayendal,chichitalcali,point of pines, casas grandes, kinishba, ……. Anywhere but from morenci To Luna/Alpine Arizona….heck of a mountain range.
@@tomasneel1980 and I would bet big as I have a dozen confirmed Coronado expedition sites here in AZ and now the results are coming out in peer-reviewed journals. Sound research. We know at least part of the route they took. We know where Chichilticale is and it is not at Kuykendall, and we know about where they crossed the Gila. We know about where they entered the US. So we have actual archaeological evidence that fits with documentary evidence. Solid facts. So its good you are not going to bet your life on your own theory.
Vázquez de Coronado is my ancestor. One of my great grandfathers married one of his granddaughters in Nueva Galicia Nueva España (now Jalisco México)
@@alexzamoraclips very cool. What is the name? Do you have a genealogy you can send me?
Thank you for your passion!! I've lived in Rio Rico/Tubac area for 43 years.
Once again Deni does an excellent job seeking the issues ( time, trauma and record keeping, i.e calendar stick), regarding the topic at hand. A correlate is then made with an O'odham elder to increase the validity of her theory. Good job, Deni!
Audio decays between Frame [7:37] and Frame [7:48]. CC also drops out.
I heard a story from a guy from Marble City, Oklahoma. He offhandedly mentioned about a Spanish stirrup being dug up in someones garden.
Good stuff. On one hand i agree, generally. On the other, I disagree with the narrative, as it were. I'm Comanche. Our interaction with the Spaniards went differently. From them we became arguably the best Light Calvary fighters that have ever mounted on horseback. This myth of the Peaceful, Noble Native is just that - a Myth. The various tribes and bands of those tribes preyed, fought, took lands and "colonized" other tribes long before the Spaniards ever knew how to navigate the oceans. Part of me is a little saddened that we all were conquered and assimilated. We all wonder 'what couldve been.' But let's be real and intellectually honest: what culture and 'tribe' on Earth has not been invaded and assimilated?
Lol, even the Spaniards were coming off of hundreds of years of invasion and assimilation by the Moors and Romans before them.
So without context of world history at the time, it looks especially worse and agregious. Viewing world history IN context, though, it shows a pattern of Human behavior.... not just behavior from people on one continent (Europe). They just happened to have some technology and invention on their side and had an edge.
I'm proud of my people. Im proud that they fought until they no longer could. The last nation to be conquered. ALL that history makes me who i am today. Good things can come from bad decisions. We're all living proof.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. Stay tuned. The Sobaipuri O'odham we're not peaceful and docile, as the narrative says. I've shown through my research that they were the best warriors in the region; they were feared even by the Apaches. All the other groups in the historic period asked for peace, as long as the Spaniards would protect them against the Sobaipuri. That's why the outcome of this battle at this town site is not surprising. They were formidable warriors who went up against the Spaniards and won. If you look at the first video I posted, Who Are the Sobaipuri O'odham, you will see that's how they got their name from other O'odham. It turns out their past is very different than they were taught, e.g., the colonial narrative. Perhaps I'll do a video specifically on their warrior capabilities. You are right however that this tells about human behavior. Humans have always been trying to conquer one another. It's rare indeed when everyone gets along. Thanks for the conversation
@manso998 , excellent insight! I'm a recent subscriber, so I've only seen about three of your videos. Great topics and content. Keep it up!
You seem honest have common sense and smarts...l wish you would run for President !
@@johndcornell6341 Deni for president! 😎
They were not there at that time marcos de niza tells a different story about this part of the journey ,the people who settled north of casa grande were not indians and indians stayed away from them till they left in 1540 then indians settled back in maricopa ,but coronado went through queen valley ,and not theough the phoenix area
@@martinstanley1231 sorry. Nope. It looks like he went right through O'odham territory and met many villagers. He tells us he did. Read the document he left and then get back to me. We have so many archaeological sites now that we know at least part of the route and it is clearly in O'odham territory. Follow the evidence.
I would not bet my life on any theory at this point, Santa Cruz , San Pedro, San Simon, ……. Kayendal,chichitalcali,point of pines, casas grandes, kinishba, ……. Anywhere but from morenci To Luna/Alpine Arizona….heck of a mountain range.
@@manso998 I would not bet my life on any theory at this point, Santa Cruz , San Pedro, San Simon, ……. Kayendal,chichitalcali,point of pines, casas grandes, kinishba, ……. Anywhere but from morenci To Luna/Alpine Arizona….heck of a mountain range.
@@tomasneel1980 and I would bet big as I have a dozen confirmed Coronado expedition sites here in AZ and now the results are coming out in peer-reviewed journals. Sound research. We know at least part of the route they took. We know where Chichilticale is and it is not at Kuykendall, and we know about where they crossed the Gila. We know about where they entered the US. So we have actual archaeological evidence that fits with documentary evidence. Solid facts. So its good you are not going to bet your life on your own theory.