One of the best videos I've seen. I can't believe there are people who think that Jordan was never double teamed, or that teams back then didn't zone up once in a while. Yeah it was illegal, but they would do it until the refs called it.
@@edwardtimothy3581 You MISSED the sarcasm of the video. Maybe it’s because you don’t realize the video is 13 years ago when people were saying Kobe was better than Jordan. Ironically these idiots are saying today’s defenses are better today to downplay Jordan and Kobe.
@@UniversalStand todays defense is better, more defensive schemes, more advanced coaching. Nba has been around for 75 years and a lot has changed in 30 years.
@@UniversalStand no you’re delusional, what planet do you live on? You can’t reply to me unless you actually watch basketball, go to bed little boy, don’t ever jump into grown folks conversation
Most interesting thing is, he scored despite the double , triple team. Nowaday the “star” can’t finish with double team or “bad spacing” or “ clot up lane” or whatever it is. Dude, we used to watch 90 basketball would ask, what spacing? If you can”t creat your own shoot in those situations then I don’t think you deserve a max contract which EVERYONE DEMANDS now a day.
"Pippen led the Bulls further w/o Jordan than vice-versa" In '94, Pippen inherited a team that had just WON the title the previous year, whereas MJ inherited a team that only won 27 games & hadn't been to the playoffs since '81, so HOW can you even BEGIN to make that kinda' comparison?!! U guys kill me with that insinuation LOL!!
@@ivanaldaz9811 My point was that if Pippen "was arguably the best player in the world" how come his fall off was so steep when he stopped playing with MJ. In regards to your second point, MJ was the featured player on a bad squad. Pippen was a role player on stacked teams. It's really not the same thing
@@blaqceeza Not only that, the year after Pippen had that 55 win season, which were basically from a championship team ready to compete, what happened the Bulls? They were struggling to make the playoffs. In fact, if MJ hadn't come back they might've missed or been an 8 seed in the playoffs all together. The Bulls were descending fast that year. Pippen's true colors had started to appear and the MJ influence had all but disappeared.
for everybody wondering this video is a response to another one called "KOBE VS ZONE DEFENCE" (sic) in which the uploader states that defenses in jordan era were weaker than in kobe's.
the 00s were more talented defensive and offensive wise you can't tell me otherwise and Kobe was still dominating. Jordan would of course too if he was in his prime but this video doesn't show shit 😂
There were 6 (including MJ) "wing" players who won Def Player Of The Year 8 times amongst them in MJ's era. Now aside from Ron Artest, SHOW ME a defensive resume like this from today's era of guards? That's what I thought.. Throughout his career, MJ faced faced 3 Top 5 defenses in the Finals that had an avg defensive ranking of 7.16. He also faced 17 Top 5 & 24 Top 10 post-season defenses with an avg defensive ranking of 8.35. Can U say any of this for kobe & the rest of these guys today?
Kawhi, marcus smart If no hand checking allowed today's player score more, then it works vice versa. It's bc of hand checking that allowed wing player back then to win DPOY 🤦
@@edwardtimothy3581yes exactly, defenses were allowed to be more physical back then even if there was more isolation scoring. So saying Jordan played in a weak defensive era just isn’t true. I know I’m a year late but still.
@@edwardtimothy3581All that means is that elite defenders in todays era would have an easier time defending in Jordan’s era and that elite offensive players in Jordan’s era would have an easier time scoring in todays era. Back then the defense was at an advantage, nowadays the defense is at a disadvantage and offensive scoring is easier than it’s ever been. Jordan and Kobe played in some of the toughest defensive eras of all time.
He was telling that whatever he said about what Kobe has to go through, what Jordan did not. He's proving that MJ went through the same thing during his era.
it's sort of startling how many people missed the point of the video. "why is he calling him Kobe?" Even with no context, it shouldn't be so difficult to infer...
The Knicks and the Pacers and even the Pistons played zone against MJ all the time and he destroyed it it was illegal but they still did it anyway just like traveling is illegal but everybody still does it
Yeah, the Celtics, Bucks, Knicks, and Pistons used to employ illegal/masked zones and doubling off the ball against Jordan regularly. Lakers did it occasionally too. Jordan is pretty easily the most doubled/tripled/trapped perimeter player in history. Plus, traps back then would force you to give the ball up; teams could take the ball out of your hands more easily than they can today, because today whenever you see a really hard trap (which is rare), the offensive player gets a foul called.
"That team was a championship caliber team with or without jordan" They were a solid team without him due to EVERYONE from the '93 title team returning, plus the new additions U mentioned, but not quite of a championship calibur IMHO. People forget, EVERYTIME they played teams with solid play in the middle & in the back-court, they struggled.. This is WHY they had so many problems with the Knicks that year..
I'm not talking about "which way is better?zone or man-man." I'm talking about things like this: "jordanlover23 : Yeah, the Celtics, Bucks, Knicks, and Pistons used to employ illegal/masked zones and doubling off the ball against Jordan regularly. Lakers did it occasionally too. Jordan is pretty easily the most doubled/tripled/trapped perimeter player in history."
I watch Lakers games all the time, and I rarely see Kobe get doubled without the ball. He's on the perimeter most of the time, whenever there's a slight double without the ball, is in the post,which he hardly does.
Love this video. I always wonder who the idiot was that started this moronic idea about zones being tougher and defenses today being more complex. What's funny is only on the Internet can you find such ignorance. 90's is perhaps the toughest defensive era and some kids today think the opposite. Again, love this video.
The 00s was the toughest era to score in and had better and more complex defenses than any other previous time period by literally any measure. Go back and look at how low the scores were. The NBA got rid of the concept of an illegal defense in 2001 and you got teams like the 2004 Pistons as a result. That early 2000s era was the transitional time where offenses hadn't yet adapted to NBA defenses being allowed to freely use zone concepts. As a result, defenses dominated for a time. Back in the 90s, Jordan used to be able to clear out the entire paint when he had three of his teammates standing in front of half court drawing their defenders up past the free throw line. Once teams figured out how to space the floor with shooters everything opened up again in the 2010s. But the reason the floor is back to being spaced out again in modern basketball is because the players have gotten much better and multi-dimensional. The early 2000s was the toughest era to score for a superstar because early 00s defenses could swarm the best players and get away with it because there weren't enough skilled offensive players on the court back then to make them pay for over-committing. Michael Jordan himself begged David Stern not to make zone defenses legal in 2001 and said "I wouldn't have had the career I had if teams were allowed to play zone." Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy Mcgrady and basically every superstar who straddled both eras all have publicly said the rule changes in 2001 made basketball way harder for them.
@@waynetables6414 Too bad that doesn't line up with what actually happened. You act like this shit isn't easily verifiable/refutable. There are these things called stats lol. Leaguewide scoring didn't budge an inch following the rule changes in 01, in fact it went up slightly. Iverson went from 31.1 PPG in 01 to 31.4 in 02. His efficiency dropped slightly but that was due to his poor shooting. The frequency with which he got to the rim actually went UP in 02 (which matters because that is what zones are designed to do, limit penetration from the perimeter. His rim finishing rate climbed every year after that as well. In fact, I personally did the research looking at the top 15 perimeter players in the league who's careers spanned 3 years before 02 ans three years after. 8 of the 15 saw an INCREASE in their attmepts from 0-3 feet, the other 7 saw no change (thanks 3 second vilolation). Then in 04-05 guys like Iverson and Bryant literally had a career resurgence with the elimination of handchecking and physicality on the perimeter. There is literally zero evidence that the changes in 01-02 made it more difficult to score. Scoring had already dropped before 02 and actually started to climb after 02. The increase in 04-05 is STILL the single largest increase in scoring from one season to the next since the merger lol. The early 2000's was about the same as the 1990's when it comes to difficulty of scoring. The late 2000's was easier. Problem during most of that early was the countless inneficient chuckers and lack of ball movement bogging down leaguewide efficiency.
Facts. And it’s only gotten worse with the small ball, and all the 3 point shooting to spread the help defense so far apart, that it really can’t be of much help.
Reason for dumping to your BIg in the 80-90's is because there were so many great, not good or average but GREAT post up centers. The centers DEMANDED the ball and teams were forced to to double if not they get run over all game long. Now i can only think of 2 centers that might demand a double down, Yao and D Howard
I mean come on guys!seriously! Phil Jackson said Jordan would average 45 under these rules.Phil Jackson said Jordan is the best player he ever coached.how much simpler could it be!
You can see here why i love Knicks defense from the 80's through the 90's..Virtually every team over committed to MJ, but damn the Knicks and the Pistons always took it up a notch. Terrific defense.
"Plus, traps back then would force you to give the ball up; teams could take the ball out of your hands more easily than they can today, because today whenever you see a really hard trap (which is rare), the offensive player gets a foul called. ClipCoug :The Celtics doubled Jordan without the ball often. Illegal D wasn't called then. "
Well, the NBA DID ADMIT to introducing it's new def rules to achieve a more "aesthetically" pleasing game & to increase FG% & scoring for its current players. The new guys WEREN'T doing well with the old def rules & weren't scoring NEARLY as much or as efficiently as their earlier counterparts & the whispers about them NOT being as fundamentally sound & skilled as players in years past, grew louder & louder. Fans started to see the poor scoring & low FG%'s & stopped watching.
everyone's talking about the rules and stuff but is ANYONE gonna acknowledge that SICK backwards bank shot MJ made at the start of the video?!?!? like damn
You are totally wrong. Basketball Fundamentals: passing: Michael Jordan finishing: Michael Jordan mid-range: Michael Jordan long-range: Kobe Bryant footwork: Michael Jordan(He is smarter,quicker and more power of meet an emergency)
@TheSpiritualJew : @ :35 the video says "Last season , Jordan had to overcome the harassment of ZONE traps and double and triple teaming"....in 98 jordan said "yeah they went into a ZONE early and that gave me wide open shots".....in 09 dirk said "team rarely get away with zone, we want to be a good man to man team not a zone team...bowen " ZONES AREN'T USED IN THE NBA AND YOU CAN'T WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS PLAYING ZONE"
Jordanhair i have no words for what i just saw. You're a genious. The most incisive and insightful video on 80's and 90's defense made yet. Using KB42PAH's own BS propaganda to prove him wrong is was such a great move.. I'll make sure he hears about this, if it hasnt been odne yet.
good thing I saw this video, I was really laughing when the guy said Kobe developed fade away on the other vid. I am probably younger than this guy but I know how second Kobe to Jordan is.
U kids kill me with the 'ol "today's players are more athletic" B.S. If U were comparing 'em to athletes from the 60's - 70's, you'd have an argument, but were talkin' 10-15 yrs ago! There's been no X-men type mutation in athleticism from '00-present LOL!! U say D. Howard & Amare, I'd counter with a prime David Robinson & Sean Kemp. U say VC, U obviously NEVER saw Dominique Wilkins. U say Wade, Melo, kobe & lebron? I'd take a PRIME Pippen, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill & MJ and OWN those guys!
"basketball is harder now" Oh really? "Our rules are [focused] on keeping the middle [open] to offer [more opportunities] for players to cut & penetrate to the basket. When we [disallowed] the use of the [hand] & [forearm] to the [body], the defensive 3-second rule in [conjunction] with the [hand check] interpretation, [gave] offensive players on the [perimeter] more [offensive freedom]." -- Stu Jackson; NBA Exec. VP of Operations; "Season Review with Stu Jackson", May 5, 2007
It was not illegal to double team off the ball in 80s/90s. It was only illegal to be in a position where you weren't 2-3 feet from any offensive player. Goodness you new school guys are clueless.
JumpersKing87 - this statement is the definition of an idiotic syllogism. In no way is there a correlation between zone and shooting percentage and yet you state this twisted logic puzzle as if it's a reasonable inference.
This video is showing you Jordan faced zone defense double triple teams above the free throw line off the ball. Its shows the players were not smaller. Basically dunking all the bullshit excuses kobetards and bronsexuals use
Zone is actually a lot easier to play against the a physical, rugged defense. There are wide open spaces all over the court to flash to and make plays, offensive rebounding lanes galore, you can use defenders' momentum and position against them quickly on the catch since they're out of position etc. The only aspect of the game that's more difficult against zone from my experience is low post play, which is why all big men's production has declined the last few years while swingmen have thrived
Today's players AREN'T "more athletic", that's B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T!! They just RELY on their athleticism more than their predecessors, which ONLY FURTHER highlights how LESS SKILLED they are than their 90's counterparts. Hell Dr. J in the latter stages of his career in the 80's, was STILL dunking from the FT line at age 35! In FACT, there were MORE players in the 80's & 90's that could actually dunk from the FT line! With the exception of maybe lebron, how many do we have today? I rest my case..
Dat_BA06_Guy To be quite frank there's probably tons of guys who can but we've just never gotten a chance to see them attempt or do it. None of the best players or even any players really for that matter care enough about the dunk contest to go out and attempt it in front of the rest of the league. The dunk contest with a big deal back 90s though. NBA players are taller longer stronger and faster than they were in the 80s and 90s and it's pretty easy to tell you just have to watch them lol
it's man to man with spacing which leads to help defense (double teams). this is what people call ZONE today (funny, since it's not really zone. it's just man to man with spacing). the problem is that the people that love to defend today's era think teams started using spacing after MJ retired. that's how you know these people lack NBA knowledge. they just repeat what they heard someone else say, and keep repeating it.
Daniel M - exactly. It's the sheer stupidity of people. We see it in politics now and all these "fake news" morons. These idiots just regurgitate nonsense they've heard somewhere else or they isolate on one thing while missing all the other elements of the greater picture. Too many 20 year olds have basketball channels and don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Just saw a video on "AndyHoops" about MJ having it easier to score in the 90's because illegal d rules helped him while utterly neglecting to recognize what physicality and a packed paint and no constant foul calls does to help these kids score incessantly today.
Only people that have no idea what zone is.... And no idea what triangle offence is... Woukd think zone is great idea against the triangle...😂☝🏾 Zone= you guard fixed space Triangle: move till you find open space or mismatch triangle will allow MJ to move till he ended up paired against the weakest opposing player... Given opposing team is guarding space... In come they'll remain in fixed position... MJ knows, who's the weakest and where they'll be... Bulls will rotate and move till MJ lined up with mismatch
the interview was during the 95-96 season and he was later asked "if your not at a 100% of your prime, how far are you?" he later replied, " 94-95% kinda hard for the eye to see"
Exactly. ESPN reported that Zones in the modern era were used at their peak in 2009-2010 on 3 percent of all plays. 3 percent!!! Clearly they are rarely used.
@@Jordanhair Here's one link talking about how zones were starting to be used more in 2020, probably because of the total lack of physicality now teams are grasping for anything they can use. But in the second section of the article it talks about how often zones have actually been used since 2001. www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29963960/nba-playoffs-why-teams-combating-offensive-revolution-going-zone-defense
@@turtleislandlac1490 Zone does not care if you iso: ruclips.net/video/oUcKA5W58gw/видео.html The Spurs collectively defend LeBron in the 2014 NBA Finals: ruclips.net/video/Boysgx3ojZE/видео.html
This video shows two important things one that the myth that MJ faced inferior competition compared to Kobe is a flat out lie. The second thing is that the dude that made the KB video should be banned for lying fabricating and not knowing wth he's talking about. "There were not many athletes in the 80s matter fact If you could dunk in the 80s you were almost a legend" Yo wth is this young pimple faced kid talking about? The 70s & 80s were the only eras when they let you fight gave out techs and the game went on. Yo you had to be tough to play in the 70s and 80s...
@1995 GetJiggyWitIt his competition wss was inferior. Look at all the articles and quotes from that time period. Plus, Jordam himself said he wouldn't have been the same player if they changed the defensive rules in 2001. (AGAIN, FACTS. HIS EXACT QUOTE).80/90S NBA WASN'T MORDERN BASKETBALL.
Great video. Yeah anybody that thinks it's tougher to score against zone defenses with the defensive 3 second rule in place than what jordan put up against double and triple teams while being hand checked is silly.
Clyde always watch games because of his job,and he knows what is zone. "True zone" is played in the Europe ,not NBA . So "true zone" is still illgel in the nba.
There was no zone in the Jordan era. Hence why Jordan himself said that he wouldn't have had the career he did if there was. The video shows the standard Jordan fan tactic of simply calling regular defense "zone", then claiming Jordan faced zone...because they called it "zone". Although that video-maker goes so far as to use misleading video editing to claim Jordan faced zone, which creates unintended comedy. The videomaker took the audio from a video about KOBE BRYANT facing zone defenses and put that audio over some Jordan clips as though Jordan faced the same, which he clearly didn't. Which is why the audio is often describing defenses that aren't actually happening in the Jordan clips, which just show traditional defenses and simple double teams. The video-maker also looks to use trick video editing to try to create the illusion of zone where this is none. The funniest part is when the audio starts talking about Kobe being doubled without the ball by zone defenders. Jordan obviously didn't face this difficulty, so the video-maker takes instances where defenders are around Jordan without the ball for a brief second, but he puts that second in slow-mo and/or freeze frames it to make it seem like the defender remained standing there in a zone and Jordan was supposedly "doubled". The video-maker then does a quick cutaway on the clip, apparently so that you don't see the part where the defender immediately moves away from Jordan to avoid getting a technical foul. The capper is that the last clip he shows is Jordan being genuinely doubled without the ball against the Suns. But it's on an *in-bounds pass*, which isn't subject to the same rules. This "just happens" to be the only clip he shows in it's entirety without cutting away or editing.
Mistah Unknown i ain’t reading all that bullshit, but pertaining to your comment about Jordan saying he wouldn’t have the same career had he gone against full zones (even tho he DID) Here’s an article debunking all that shit. Note. He made that comment BEFORE he played for the Wizards nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2015/05/section-20-michael-jordans-wizards-years.html?m=1
@X02Overdose First of all, my very first sentence was "There was no zone in the Jordan era". Just so you know, the Jordan era ended in 1998. There, I just debunked your claims with the use of only 2 sentences. Please tell me that you did not link me a blog titled "NobodyTouchesJordan" and present it as "debunking all that shit" that I said in my previous post up above. You aren't the first person to link me that page. Coming to think of it, that Tony Boots person who commented before you had linked me that page too, elsewhere. You guys must be in the same cult that goes around throwing that website all over social media sites, huh? You expect me to believe that all what he's saying is unbiased? A huge chunk of that blog is debunk-able. Instead of me telling you that "I ain't reading all that shit" on that blog, I'll skim thru it and try my best to find the part that debunks my comment. You may have to help me out here a little. Zone forced perimeter stars like Kobe, T-Mac, & Iverson to shoot from long range. You should take a look at the averages of the guys when Zone D first came in ('01, '02, '03). I'm talking about the averages of perimeter players like Kobe, AI, T-Mac, P Pierce, V Carter, Ray Allen, J Terry, & J Kidd. Those are only SG's. The Assist averages of perimeter players went up when Zone came in (because Zone forces the ball out of the hands of perimeter stars). Shot attempts went up. FG%'s dropped. The only reason some players scored more points is because they attempted more shots. And if those 3-point shooting young star perimeter players (who were still developing themselves as players) were able to force Jordan to jack up tons of shots while shooting a low percentage, those stars won the battle defensively with the use of Zone Defense. Jordan shooting 42% & 45% during his 2 Wizard's seasons is pretty bad if you add in the fact that he did not shoot 3's like Kobe, Iverson, and T-Mac did (Jordan's shot was suspect beyond approximately 15 feet and even when his jumper improved later in his career, his range was still short of the 3-point line). He was the same age as Karl "The Mailman" Malone, who averaged more points, more efficiently, in the same year. Let's take into consideration that Karl Malone didn't just come off of a retirement with back to back years with rest in retirement like Jordan. 20PPG on sub-45% shooting from a guy who takes very few 3-pointers. Not really sure there's all that much to sink in there, especially considering Jordan was no longer the main focus of the opposing team's defense at that age. Don't forget the unique special circumstance of being his own team's boss and using his executive power to keep himself on the court and the ball in his hands no matter how many shots he missed. The fact that Jordan had to shoot more than Kobe (who is still developing himself as a player) just to muster around 20 points, that's a win for the zone defense. Jordan struggled against Zones. It's that simple. Not all teams played Zone that 1st year it came into the league, legally. There were teams that did a lot of isolations. There were teams that still played Man-to-Man that year so Jordan's averages in his WIzard's years were not put up strictly against Zones. One can point to Jordan's high scoring games during his Wizards season and say "He didn't have an issue with Zones" but at the same time, one can also point to his lowest scoring games and say "He had issues with zones". A Wizards career average of 21 PPG from a player who had a Bulls career average of 31.5 PPG is bad. Like, very bad. Zone completely changes up the game and organizations had to reconstruct their rosters to deal with Zone in the early 2000's. There is a reason Jordan brought in players like Tyron Lue, Larry Hughes, Jerry Stackhouse, Kwame Brown, Brendan Haywood, and Byron Russell. Jordan faced zones during his NCAA years (not on an NBA floor), the Olympics (not on an NBA floor), and his Wizards years (not every single game). In the NCAA where it is allowed, the defenses were able to hold down Jordan, which helped upset the top seeded Tar Heels from making the Final Four two years in a row. They also allowed zone in the Olympic Games. In the '84 Olympics, Jordan shot the 4th worst percentage on that squad. In '92, Jordan shot the absolute WORST percentage of all the Dream Team players. In addition, Jordan led both the '84 and '92 Olympic teams in turnovers. Is it no surprise how much Jordan dominated in a zone-free NBA?
@@tonyboots2958 Still resenting the nauseating amount of Jordan propaganda and mythology that made him a greater player than who he really was? Yes, ma'am. I am.
Then that person from the "Nobody Touches Jordan" cult brings up T-Mac for some strange reason and does so by comparing Jordan's averages thru 46 games to T-Mac's averagesthru 76 games. Was he trying to make Jordan look even greater than Jordan really was? Jordan was shooting 41% from the field before his knee injury. T-Mac was shooting 3's all season long. Jordan shied away from shooting too many 3's. How is it fair to compare Jordan's averages's thru 46 games to T-Mac's averages thru 76 games? That's a reach. A 38 year old Jordan performing well in the 1st half of the season isn't going to perform the same way in the 2nd half of the season. Common sense says that the body starts to wear down after a certain point. If he was getting the MVP talks at the 1st half of season, all of it would have still died down had he not gotten injured. In the MVP race, stats matter. FG% matter and that's not something that would go in Jordan's favor. As a member of the Jordan fan-base dedicated to showing reasons why Jordan is supposedly better than certain players, that NobodyTouchesJordan person should be committed to being as truthful, objective, logical, unbiased, and open-minded as he can possibly be.
Jackson recalled that Bryant got a technical foul against Utah, but it was in speaking up for a teammate.
"Other than that, he's been very controlled and stays off them a little bit," Jackson said. "We talked a lot about that during the offseason, about that ability to let those things go."
"Our rules are [designed] to [allow] players to [penetrate] for [high percentage] shots. This has [allowed] for more high quality [perimeter] shots as well, because of how much [easier] it is to penetrate today." -- Stu Jackson; NBA Executive Vice President, Basketball Operations
As I said before,Teams rarely double kobe off the ball.(rare and very slight double team) You can see all the lakers' game from the past. Teams from the past double the post quicker than today.
SMH.. "The rules changes did what they were [supposed] to do -- [open up] the game. Scoring average has [increased] from an average [95.6] points per game to this year's [100] per game. Overall FG% has [increased] from [44.0%] in the '98 season to [48.1%] this season. Three-point percentage has [gone up], from [.336] 11 years ago to [.391] this season." -- David Aldridge, TNT basketball analyst; "Rules changes have affected defensive philosophies, April 23, 2009
G.O.A.T & Kobe DON'T GO in the same sentence kid..U can kill that nonsense.. How the hell can U call someone the G.O.A.T who only has 1 MVP, never was the MVP in the Finals when he was there, has shot the ball "LESS" than 40% for 1/3 of his career, has 0 Def Player Of The Year Awards, NOT among the Top 100 in assists, NOT among the Top 50 in steals & NOT among the Top 10 of ALL TIME in ppg. And the list goes on & on..but he's the "Greatest"? He doesn't have a LEGIT claim to that honor..
it's not about respect, its about spreading false statements and outright lies to gullible nba fans today who are too lazy to do the research on their own. "Bird is overrated" "weak defensive era, short players" "zone is tougher" PAH is the king of exaggerations and absolute lies, and anyone who steps up and corrects this crap deserves props. We just want to truth to be told.
"They got rid of the ability to use your forearms and contact on the perimeter. It's a guard's league now and that's why you see Chris Paul and Deron Williams having so much success. The new interpretation of the rules doesn't allow contact on the perimeter so it's easier to dominate as a guard right now." - John Paxson 2008
I don't know about that one man.. The Pacers, who the knicks beat in the ECF that year, were ALSO a bit better than the bulls that year. They CERTAINLY had the inside presence to punish the bulls, which they did all throughout the reg season that year.. Granted, it was bad call by hollins, but to say they would've gotten to the finals? I don't know about that one bro..
ok so mj had the most accurate 3 point shooter in history inflating his assists number and relieving pressure from him. settled. thanks for making it clear.
if u don't buy that, kobe bryant has been playing the game from the age of 18 til 30 nonstop no questions asked. MJ played from 85-03 retiring 3 times. kobe has the greater love for the game cuz he doesn't have silly ass identity crises every few years. he didn't go on wild baseball goose chases.
Somebody has list that in the internet.You could search it.And he also list those defenders Jordan faced. Today,small defenders couldn't do good job because the handcheck rule.
Larry Brown: The league wants that. You cant guard anybody anymore, If Michael (Jordan) played today hed average 60 a game, as much as they call fouls on the perimeter. Youve got to have people that can keep guards in front of them without fouling. Its unbelievably important now. And now you need guys that can penetrate and play pick-and-roll and get people involved.
LOL The "guy" is Ron Harper, dude. He has a well-known stutter problem, played against Jordan in his earlier years and joined the Bulls in the mid-90s where he won 3 titles with #23. He knows what he's talking about even if it sounds funny.
Double team doesn't equal to zone defense. With zone defense okayed, team "consistently" camp in the paint. It's different than those few moment of isolation defense that looks like it is crowding the paint. It was illegal to stand there in the paint not guarding anyone, and ref consistently give Bulls free throw for it. Phil Jackson actually had specific instruction to bait Ref.
Double team, an isolation offense concept, is actually easier for player to pass out because there is actually a man left open. I think the speaker of the Kobe video mistakenly uses "double team" to describe zone collapse. It's completely different thing.
yes, i am from hong kong, i would like to communicate in Chinese but i can't type tho. Your video collections really amaze me!!! Where did you get all those? I am a big ass super Jordan fans
And what does MJ's teammates have to do with "his" individual production? Everytime U kobe homers compare him to other players & the FACTS start debunking your uninformed claims, U IMMEDIATELY try & imply that it's the other guys "team" that's responsible for "his" better individual production as if the SOLE reason for the Lakers success is kobe. But when kobe's individual #'s are examined, U then BLAME his teammates as if they're the one's out there producing "his" individual #'s LOL!!
If you are talking about hand-check,a guy named Civsuccess2 will send you a video named "Jordan and1 jumper on Starks "to prove that Jordan was benefited from that rule so that he only got 7 FTs a game during early 90's.
JUST LOVED THE 80'S, 90'S NBA RULES... IT'S MORE CHALLENGING FOR GREAT PLAYERS LIKE MIKE ,CHARLES ,LARRY ETC. THAT MAKES THE GAME MORE INTERESTING AND ENTERTAINING...IT'S JUST PROVES HOW GREAT THEY ARE AS AN ATHLETE... YAHOOOOOOOO!!
And he becomes more dangerous and unpredictable on this. Easily adapt to improve more his game, masters his fundamentals and becomes the phenomenal player in the NBA.
These b-ball sites are filled with player size info. And Ehlo was a solid 1 on 1 defender. U guys just devalue him because MJ abused him. And cherry picking out mugsy & spud to represent the pg's of that era is lame. Don't even go there, because the quality of TRUE pt guards in the NBA today vs then, is a joke! Again, if today's players are so much better, why'd the NBA change their rules so they could put up the kinda #'s like their predecessors? Still can't answer that question can ya?
As already mentioned, it's not even a real zone. Big men can't camp in the low post because of the 3-second rule, combine that with the handchecking rule and you have a El Dorado for athletic wing men. Even worse, because of the "zone defense" defenders doesn't have to follow their opponents, they can cheat on defense and simply guard open space. It's so easy for perimeter players to take advantage of that and penetrate into the lane. Nobody can touch them, it's an automatic foul. Ridiculous.
So funny,every Jordan fans knows the real handchecking had been limited since 94 .You can't use your full hand when players are facing the rim. Larry Brown said jordan could drop 100pts if he start playing in 1995
oh well ok if u say so. but u can't hold it against kobe that he wanted to play basketball. i mean i respect that more than anything. here's a kid with a 1420 on the SAT and could do anything he wanted but he knew his destiny was in basketball. that is love for the game. no early retirements, no excuses. he comes in and plays every season as hard as his first.
This video actually proves the few times he faced zones the commentators called it out as illegal. Also you can double team players. That's not zone lol. You couldn't double team in the paint. Which can do today. Guys in the paint coming in late isn't food defending. Shading lanes is. Something you couldn't do in the 90's. Myth
This video makes it clear that Jordan era defense was literally wrestling-like. In comparison, today's defense is too gentlemanly. I got a feeling that guys like Kobe and Lebron would have real problems if they have to face what Jordan had to face.
Jackson said he believed Michael Jordan was fouled on every play when he coached the Bulls. He said coaches and players would tell the referees, "Don't give him those cheap calls."
Jackson said the referees seemed to agree and didn't give Jordan the calls because he "was good enough to do it anyway."
Well ,you could google it. ''I think a lot of has to do with the rules,'' Knicks Coach Larry Brown said last week. ''You see how many free throws guys are shooting, there's so much stuff being called on the perimeter. These guys who can dribble-drive, it's different. I can't imagine what Michael would have gotten with the hand-check rules. -- Larry Brown
not all the time. i recall in the 1993 season the bulls were called maybe 3 times a game for illegal defense and in 1 playoff game that year they were called for it 4 times.
LBJ and MJ were given the key to the city and a whole team with unlimited playing time and room for development while kobe had to sit the bench for 3 years cuz he was already on an all-star team. don't give credit for lucky circumstances.
Kobe had a franchisze handed to him if he had played with the team who drafted him (Charlotte), but he and his agent ended up with the Lakers because his agent said there was no way he could play with Charlotte
I do think there should be an asterisk next to some of these scoring leaders, because it is much different trying to score with a forearm in your face. It is harder to score with that resistance. You had to turn your back on guys defending you back in the day with all the hand checking that was going on. For guys who penetrate these days, it's hunting season. Yes, now you can play zone, but teams rarely do.
no they weren't but nobody is talking about malone and kemp. i didn't say every high school player is better than MJ. just that kobe has that advantage. malone was b4 mj anyways and both of those guys were pretty damn good players.
D league is more competitive cuz it consists of NBA players that either were or could have been drafted playing for an nba team's affiliate "reserve" team. they are called up based on performance and it happens pretty commonly. now since the nba is the highest form of basketball, and the d-league is it's close affiliate it is reasonable to assume it is the better league.
u wanna compare lebron and kobe at the same age for what? kobe wasn't a fucking behemoth since he was in 4th grade. lebron had a grown man's body when he was about 15 years old. kobe comes to the league to a large market LA team which was already filled with all stars and had to sit on the bench. lebron comes to cleveland and is given the keys to the city like MJ. u guys don't even realize how lucky MJ and lebron have been lucky their whole careers it's sick.
Kuz this is a response to a video that KB42PAH made, showing how today's NBA defenses which Kobe sees are more skilled and more strategic than the defenses that Jordan faced. This vid shows the same scenarios that Kobe faces on the other mix, so the audio is meant to refute the notion that during the Jordan era the defenses were weak. Does that make sense?
They rarely double kobe off the ball. Many times They doubled Jordan everytime he touched the ball. I have so many games to prove that. Do you want to see all of them?
![BAK Jay - Find Out (For Your Love) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/10FJO_XBCvY/mqdefault.jpg)
One of the best videos I've seen. I can't believe there are people who think that Jordan was never double teamed, or that teams back then didn't zone up once in a while. Yeah it was illegal, but they would do it until the refs called it.
U realize he edited that video right? Cmon. Jordan was in the video but "kobe" on the audio.
@@edwardtimothy3581 You MISSED the sarcasm of the video. Maybe it’s because you don’t realize the video is 13 years ago when people were saying Kobe was better than Jordan. Ironically these idiots are saying today’s defenses are better today to downplay Jordan and Kobe.
@@UniversalStand todays defense is better, more defensive schemes, more advanced coaching. Nba has been around for 75 years and a lot has changed in 30 years.
@@edwardwalden05 Sure…that’s why there are so many wide open lanes to the basket in today’s game. You’re delusional.
@@UniversalStand no you’re delusional, what planet do you live on? You can’t reply to me unless you actually watch basketball, go to bed little boy, don’t ever jump into grown folks conversation
Most interesting thing is, he scored despite the double , triple team. Nowaday the “star” can’t finish with double team or “bad spacing” or “ clot up lane” or whatever it is. Dude, we used to watch 90 basketball would ask, what spacing? If you can”t creat your own shoot in those situations then I don’t think you deserve a max contract which EVERYONE DEMANDS now a day.
💯 💯 💯 💨
You are quite literally lying almost every all star can finish with a double team😭
"Pippen led the Bulls further w/o Jordan than vice-versa"
In '94, Pippen inherited a team that had just WON the title the previous year, whereas MJ inherited a team that only won 27 games & hadn't been to the playoffs since '81, so HOW can you even BEGIN to make that kinda' comparison?!!
U guys kill me with that insinuation LOL!!
@1995 GetJiggyWitIt you failed to mentioned that Scottie Pippen was arguebly the best player in the world in 93 after Jordans retirement.
@@ivanaldaz9811 Then how come he was never an all star after their run?
blaqceeza and Jordan never managed to make the playoffs after him so what’s your point ? Pippen
went on to make the playoffs 5 times
@@ivanaldaz9811 My point was that if Pippen "was arguably the best player in the world" how come his fall off was so steep when he stopped playing with MJ.
In regards to your second point, MJ was the featured player on a bad squad. Pippen was a role player on stacked teams. It's really not the same thing
@@blaqceeza Not only that, the year after Pippen had that 55 win season, which were basically from a championship team ready to compete, what happened the Bulls? They were struggling to make the playoffs. In fact, if MJ hadn't come back they might've missed or been an 8 seed in the playoffs all together. The Bulls were descending fast that year. Pippen's true colors had started to appear and the MJ influence had all but disappeared.
for everybody wondering this video is a response to another one called "KOBE VS ZONE DEFENCE" (sic) in which the uploader states that defenses in jordan era were weaker than in kobe's.
So this video I’m watching rn is some guy trying to say defense was better in the jordan era?
the 00s were more talented defensive and offensive wise you can't tell me otherwise and Kobe was still dominating. Jordan would of course too if he was in his prime but this video doesn't show shit 😂
Zone defense was illegal in 90s but 1993 Knicks and 1996 Sonics also in the finals..had Jordan shooting terrible %
@@AlabamaNationalChampionsOf2024 He wasn't dominating 😂
I understand the point the poster was trying to make but it's just confusing and unnecessary. Should have just used the original audio.
It's a satire or parody of the claims that Jordan couldn't score during Kobe's era.
There were 6 (including MJ) "wing" players who won Def Player Of The Year 8 times amongst them in MJ's era. Now aside from Ron Artest, SHOW ME a defensive resume like this from today's era of guards?
That's what I thought..
Throughout his career, MJ faced faced 3 Top 5 defenses in the Finals that had an avg defensive ranking of 7.16. He also faced 17 Top 5 & 24 Top 10 post-season defenses with an avg defensive ranking of 8.35.
Can U say any of this for kobe & the rest of these guys today?
Kawhi, marcus smart
If no hand checking allowed today's player score more, then it works vice versa. It's bc of hand checking that allowed wing player back then to win DPOY 🤦
@@edwardtimothy3581yes exactly, defenses were allowed to be more physical back then even if there was more isolation scoring. So saying Jordan played in a weak defensive era just isn’t true. I know I’m a year late but still.
@@edwardtimothy3581All that means is that elite defenders in todays era would have an easier time defending in Jordan’s era and that elite offensive players in Jordan’s era would have an easier time scoring in todays era. Back then the defense was at an advantage, nowadays the defense is at a disadvantage and offensive scoring is easier than it’s ever been. Jordan and Kobe played in some of the toughest defensive eras of all time.
@@mahri9022 yep that's what i mean. So guys like dray, giannis, kawhi would festing on them
He was telling that whatever he said about what Kobe has to go through, what Jordan did not. He's proving that MJ went through the same thing during his era.
it's sort of startling how many people missed the point of the video. "why is he calling him Kobe?"
Even with no context, it shouldn't be so difficult to infer...
The Knicks and the Pacers and even the Pistons played zone against MJ all the time and he destroyed it it was illegal but they still did it anyway just like traveling is illegal but everybody still does it
Zone was not allowed until 2003. The poster of this thinks double teaming is a zone..
Yeah, the Celtics, Bucks, Knicks, and Pistons used to employ illegal/masked zones and doubling off the ball against Jordan regularly. Lakers did it occasionally too. Jordan is pretty easily the most doubled/tripled/trapped perimeter player in history. Plus, traps back then would force you to give the ball up; teams could take the ball out of your hands more easily than they can today, because today whenever you see a really hard trap (which is rare), the offensive player gets a foul called.
"That team was a championship caliber team with or without jordan"
They were a solid team without him due to EVERYONE from the '93 title team returning, plus the new additions U mentioned, but not quite of a championship calibur IMHO.
People forget, EVERYTIME they played teams with solid play in the middle & in the back-court, they struggled..
This is WHY they had so many problems with the Knicks that year..
I'm not talking about "which way is better?zone or man-man."
I'm talking about things like this:
"jordanlover23 : Yeah, the Celtics, Bucks, Knicks, and Pistons used to employ illegal/masked zones and doubling off the ball against Jordan regularly. Lakers did it occasionally too. Jordan is pretty easily the most doubled/tripled/trapped perimeter player in history."
I watch Lakers games all the time, and I rarely see Kobe get doubled without the ball. He's on the perimeter most of the time, whenever there's a slight double without the ball, is in the post,which he hardly does.
Love this video. I always wonder who the idiot was that started this moronic idea about zones being tougher and defenses today being more complex. What's funny is only on the Internet can you find such ignorance. 90's is perhaps the toughest defensive era and some kids today think the opposite. Again, love this video.
The 00s was the toughest era to score in and had better and more complex defenses than any other previous time period by literally any measure. Go back and look at how low the scores were. The NBA got rid of the concept of an illegal defense in 2001 and you got teams like the 2004 Pistons as a result. That early 2000s era was the transitional time where offenses hadn't yet adapted to NBA defenses being allowed to freely use zone concepts. As a result, defenses dominated for a time. Back in the 90s, Jordan used to be able to clear out the entire paint when he had three of his teammates standing in front of half court drawing their defenders up past the free throw line. Once teams figured out how to space the floor with shooters everything opened up again in the 2010s. But the reason the floor is back to being spaced out again in modern basketball is because the players have gotten much better and multi-dimensional. The early 2000s was the toughest era to score for a superstar because early 00s defenses could swarm the best players and get away with it because there weren't enough skilled offensive players on the court back then to make them pay for over-committing. Michael Jordan himself begged David Stern not to make zone defenses legal in 2001 and said "I wouldn't have had the career I had if teams were allowed to play zone." Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy Mcgrady and basically every superstar who straddled both eras all have publicly said the rule changes in 2001 made basketball way harder for them.
@@waynetables6414 Too bad that doesn't line up with what actually happened. You act like this shit isn't easily verifiable/refutable. There are these things called stats lol. Leaguewide scoring didn't budge an inch following the rule changes in 01, in fact it went up slightly. Iverson went from 31.1 PPG in 01 to 31.4 in 02. His efficiency dropped slightly but that was due to his poor shooting. The frequency with which he got to the rim actually went UP in 02 (which matters because that is what zones are designed to do, limit penetration from the perimeter. His rim finishing rate climbed every year after that as well. In fact, I personally did the research looking at the top 15 perimeter players in the league who's careers spanned 3 years before 02 ans three years after. 8 of the 15 saw an INCREASE in their attmepts from 0-3 feet, the other 7 saw no change (thanks 3 second vilolation). Then in 04-05 guys like Iverson and Bryant literally had a career resurgence with the elimination of handchecking and physicality on the perimeter. There is literally zero evidence that the changes in 01-02 made it more difficult to score. Scoring had already dropped before 02 and actually started to climb after 02. The increase in 04-05 is STILL the single largest increase in scoring from one season to the next since the merger lol. The early 2000's was about the same as the 1990's when it comes to difficulty of scoring. The late 2000's was easier. Problem during most of that early was the countless inneficient chuckers and lack of ball movement bogging down leaguewide efficiency.
"Because of hand check rules, you better hope you have a 7 footer" Drexler said.
Where are this 7 footers now ???
It's mostly small ball now.
Facts. And it’s only gotten worse with the small ball, and all the 3 point shooting to spread the help defense so far apart, that it really can’t be of much help.
This a masterpiece bro 🔥🔥 Keep educating them fools
Reason for dumping to your BIg in the 80-90's is because there were so many great, not good or average but GREAT post up centers. The centers DEMANDED the ball and teams were forced to to double if not they get run over all game long. Now i can only think of 2 centers that might demand a double down, Yao and D Howard
I mean come on guys!seriously! Phil Jackson said Jordan would average 45 under these rules.Phil Jackson said Jordan is the best player he ever coached.how much simpler could it be!
Yo I feel for all the dudes saying "why is he calling him Kobe,he's pissin me off"
mookeychase0907 watch Kobe bs zone defense video then you'll understand
mookeychase0907 😂
You can see here why i love Knicks defense from the 80's through the 90's..Virtually every team over committed to MJ, but damn the Knicks and the Pistons always took it up a notch. Terrific defense.
"Plus, traps back then would force you to give the ball up; teams could take the ball out of your hands more easily than they can today, because today whenever you see a really hard trap (which is rare), the offensive player gets a foul called.
ClipCoug :The Celtics doubled Jordan without the ball often. Illegal D wasn't called then. "
Well, the NBA DID ADMIT to introducing it's new def rules to achieve a more "aesthetically" pleasing game & to increase FG% & scoring for its current players.
The new guys WEREN'T doing well with the old def rules & weren't scoring NEARLY as much or as efficiently as their earlier counterparts & the whispers about them NOT being as fundamentally sound & skilled as players in years past, grew louder & louder. Fans started to see the poor scoring & low FG%'s & stopped watching.
everyone's talking about the rules and stuff but is ANYONE gonna acknowledge that SICK backwards bank shot MJ made at the start of the video?!?!? like damn
You are totally wrong.
Basketball Fundamentals:
passing: Michael Jordan
finishing: Michael Jordan
mid-range: Michael Jordan
long-range: Kobe Bryant
footwork: Michael Jordan(He is smarter,quicker and more power of meet an emergency)
Man your list is exactly what I would say if I'm comparing. Exactly how I see Mike vs Kobe.
@TheSpiritualJew : @ :35 the video says "Last season , Jordan had to overcome the harassment of ZONE traps and double and triple teaming"....in 98 jordan said "yeah they went into a ZONE early and that gave me wide open shots".....in 09 dirk said "team rarely get away with zone, we want to be a good man to man team not a zone team...bowen " ZONES AREN'T USED IN THE NBA AND YOU CAN'T WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS PLAYING ZONE"
Jordanhair i have no words for what i just saw. You're a genious. The most incisive and insightful video on 80's and 90's defense made yet.
Using KB42PAH's own BS propaganda to prove him wrong is was such a great move..
I'll make sure he hears about this, if it hasnt been odne yet.
good thing I saw this video, I was really laughing when the guy said Kobe developed fade away on the other vid. I am probably younger than this guy but I know how second Kobe to Jordan is.
Look whos covering him most of the time
None all stars 🤣🤣
Cry 😂
U kids kill me with the 'ol "today's players are more athletic" B.S.
If U were comparing 'em to athletes from the 60's - 70's, you'd have an argument, but were talkin' 10-15 yrs ago! There's been no X-men type mutation in athleticism from '00-present LOL!!
U say D. Howard & Amare, I'd counter with a prime David Robinson & Sean Kemp. U say VC, U obviously NEVER saw Dominique Wilkins. U say Wade, Melo, kobe & lebron? I'd take a PRIME Pippen, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill & MJ and OWN those guys!
The Knicks back in the day were so damn good playing zone, andgot away with it.
"basketball is harder now"
Oh really?
"Our rules are [focused] on keeping the middle [open] to offer [more opportunities] for players to cut & penetrate to the basket. When we [disallowed] the use of the [hand] & [forearm] to the [body], the defensive 3-second rule in [conjunction] with the [hand check] interpretation, [gave] offensive players on the [perimeter] more [offensive freedom]."
-- Stu Jackson; NBA Exec. VP of Operations; "Season Review with Stu Jackson", May 5, 2007
It was not illegal to double team off the ball in 80s/90s. It was only illegal to be in a position where you weren't 2-3 feet from any offensive player. Goodness you new school guys are clueless.
Zone was illegal in Jordan's era..So if Kobe was playing against a man to man defense wouldn't he shoot 50% as well??..
JumpersKing87 he played during Jordan’s era and shot horribly lmao
JumpersKing87 - this statement is the definition of an idiotic syllogism. In no way is there a correlation between zone and shooting percentage and yet you state this twisted logic puzzle as if it's a reasonable inference.
no he was a rookie then and he did well against jordan
ryanr20091 nope
This video is showing you Jordan faced zone defense double triple teams above the free throw line off the ball. Its shows the players were not smaller. Basically dunking all the bullshit excuses kobetards and bronsexuals use
this video is amazing. seriously awesome editing work.
Zone is actually a lot easier to play against the a physical, rugged defense. There are wide open spaces all over the court to flash to and make plays, offensive rebounding lanes galore, you can use defenders' momentum and position against them quickly on the catch since they're out of position etc. The only aspect of the game that's more difficult against zone from my experience is low post play, which is why all big men's production has declined the last few years while swingmen have thrived
You know better right ? 🤣🤣
Today's players AREN'T "more athletic", that's B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T!! They just RELY on their athleticism more than their predecessors, which ONLY FURTHER highlights how LESS SKILLED they are than their 90's counterparts.
Hell Dr. J in the latter stages of his career in the 80's, was STILL dunking from the FT line at age 35! In FACT, there were MORE players in the 80's & 90's that could actually dunk from the FT line!
With the exception of maybe lebron, how many do we have today? I rest my case..
Dat_BA06_Guy To be quite frank there's probably tons of guys who can but we've just never gotten a chance to see them attempt or do it. None of the best players or even any players really for that matter care enough about the dunk contest to go out and attempt it in front of the rest of the league. The dunk contest with a big deal back 90s though. NBA players are taller longer stronger and faster than they were in the 80s and 90s and it's pretty easy to tell you just have to watch them lol
Thats not zone thats hard double team which is completely legal all youve got to do is pass the fucking ball and you'll score easily
it's man to man with spacing which leads to help defense (double teams). this is what people call ZONE today (funny, since it's not really zone. it's just man to man with spacing). the problem is that the people that love to defend today's era think teams started using spacing after MJ retired. that's how you know these people lack NBA knowledge. they just repeat what they heard someone else say, and keep repeating it.
Daniel M - exactly. It's the sheer stupidity of people. We see it in politics now and all these "fake news" morons. These idiots just regurgitate nonsense they've heard somewhere else or they isolate on one thing while missing all the other elements of the greater picture.
Too many 20 year olds have basketball channels and don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Just saw a video on "AndyHoops" about MJ having it easier to score in the 90's because illegal d rules helped him while utterly neglecting to recognize what physicality and a packed paint and no constant foul calls does to help these kids score incessantly today.
Coming back in 2024... absolutely brilliant work.
Only people that have no idea what zone is.... And no idea what triangle offence is... Woukd think zone is great idea against the triangle...😂☝🏾
Zone= you guard fixed space
Triangle: move till you find open space or mismatch
triangle will allow MJ to move till he ended up paired against the weakest opposing player...
Given opposing team is guarding space... In come they'll remain in fixed position...
MJ knows, who's the weakest and where they'll be...
Bulls will rotate and move till MJ lined up with mismatch
And although that he still scored on the best defenders at the time if he would like to lmaoo
the interview was during the 95-96 season and he was later asked "if your not at a 100% of your prime, how far are you?" he later replied, " 94-95% kinda hard for the eye to see"
No,it's illegal to play a true zone too.
" Yes, now you can play zone, but teams rarely do."
-----Clyde Drexler
Exactly. ESPN reported that Zones in the modern era were used at their peak in 2009-2010 on 3 percent of all plays. 3 percent!!! Clearly they are rarely used.
@@turtleislandlac1490 could you give me any links or videos about this ?
@@Jordanhair Here's one link talking about how zones were starting to be used more in 2020, probably because of the total lack of physicality now teams are grasping for anything they can use. But in the second section of the article it talks about how often zones have actually been used since 2001. www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29963960/nba-playoffs-why-teams-combating-offensive-revolution-going-zone-defense
@@turtleislandlac1490 thank you very much!
@@turtleislandlac1490 Zone does not care if you iso: ruclips.net/video/oUcKA5W58gw/видео.html
The Spurs collectively defend LeBron in the 2014 NBA Finals: ruclips.net/video/Boysgx3ojZE/видео.html
Absolutely brilliant video. Thanks for the great work.
Masterpiece jordanhair, you've outdone yourself this time! Now if only u can get PAH to accept it as a response video...which he never will lol
Funniest quote of the video:
"Kobe's so used to having a 2nd defender runnin at him, that's why he developed the fadeaway"
This video shows two important things one that the myth that MJ faced inferior competition compared to Kobe is a flat out lie. The second thing is that the dude that made the KB video should be banned for lying fabricating and not knowing wth he's talking about. "There were not many athletes in the 80s matter fact If you could dunk in the 80s you were almost a legend" Yo wth is this young pimple faced kid talking about? The 70s & 80s were the only eras when they let you fight gave out techs and the game went on. Yo you had to be tough to play in the 70s and 80s...
mookeychase0907 he also said Kobe invented the fade-away. 😂😂
Jordan did face inferior competition.
@1995 GetJiggyWitIt his competition wss was inferior. Look at all the articles and quotes from that time period. Plus, Jordam himself said he wouldn't have been the same player if they changed the defensive rules in 2001. (AGAIN, FACTS. HIS EXACT QUOTE).80/90S NBA WASN'T MORDERN BASKETBALL.
Great video. Yeah anybody that thinks it's tougher to score against zone defenses with the defensive 3 second rule in place than what jordan put up against double and triple teams while being hand checked is silly.
Clyde always watch games because of his job,and he knows what is zone.
"True zone" is played in the Europe
,not NBA .
So "true zone" is still illgel in the nba.
Not only 6-6 in NBA Finals, but 6-6 in Final's MVP's. Kobe 0-5 winning Final's MVP.
There was no zone in the Jordan era. Hence why Jordan himself said that he wouldn't have had the career he did if there was. The video shows the standard Jordan fan tactic of simply calling regular defense "zone", then claiming Jordan faced zone...because they called it "zone". Although that video-maker goes so far as to use misleading video editing to claim Jordan faced zone, which creates unintended comedy.
The videomaker took the audio from a video about KOBE BRYANT facing zone defenses and put that audio over some Jordan clips as though Jordan faced the same, which he clearly didn't. Which is why the audio is often describing defenses that aren't actually happening in the Jordan clips, which just show traditional defenses and simple double teams. The video-maker also looks to use trick video editing to try to create the illusion of zone where this is none. The funniest part is when the audio starts talking about Kobe being doubled without the ball by zone defenders. Jordan obviously didn't face this difficulty, so the video-maker takes instances where defenders are around Jordan without the ball for a brief second, but he puts that second in slow-mo and/or freeze frames it to make it seem like the defender remained standing there in a zone and Jordan was supposedly "doubled". The video-maker then does a quick cutaway on the clip, apparently so that you don't see the part where the defender immediately moves away from Jordan to avoid getting a technical foul.
The capper is that the last clip he shows is Jordan being genuinely doubled without the ball against the Suns. But it's on an *in-bounds pass*, which isn't subject to the same rules. This "just happens" to be the only clip he shows in it's entirety without cutting away or editing.
Mistah Unknown
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Still at it, huh?!
Mistah Unknown i ain’t reading all that bullshit, but pertaining to your comment about Jordan saying he wouldn’t have the same career had he gone against full zones (even tho he DID)
Here’s an article debunking all that shit.
Note. He made that comment BEFORE he played for the Wizards
nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2015/05/section-20-michael-jordans-wizards-years.html?m=1
@X02Overdose First of all, my very first sentence was "There was no zone in the Jordan era". Just so you know, the Jordan era ended in 1998. There, I just debunked your claims with the use of only 2 sentences.
Please tell me that you did not link me a blog titled "NobodyTouchesJordan" and present it as "debunking all that shit" that I said in my previous post up above. You aren't the first person to link me that page. Coming to think of it, that Tony Boots person who commented before you had linked me that page too, elsewhere. You guys must be in the same cult that goes around throwing that website all over social media sites, huh? You expect me to believe that all what he's saying is unbiased? A huge chunk of that blog is debunk-able. Instead of me telling you that "I ain't reading all that shit" on that blog, I'll skim thru it and try my best to find the part that debunks my comment. You may have to help me out here a little.
Zone forced perimeter stars like Kobe, T-Mac, & Iverson to shoot from long range. You should take a look at the averages of the guys when Zone D first came in ('01, '02, '03). I'm talking about the averages of perimeter players like Kobe, AI, T-Mac, P Pierce, V Carter, Ray Allen, J Terry, & J Kidd. Those are only SG's. The Assist averages of perimeter players went up when Zone came in (because Zone forces the ball out of the hands of perimeter stars). Shot attempts went up. FG%'s dropped. The only reason some players scored more points is because they attempted more shots. And if those 3-point shooting young star perimeter players (who were still developing themselves as players) were able to force Jordan to jack up tons of shots while shooting a low percentage, those stars won the battle defensively with the use of Zone Defense.
Jordan shooting 42% & 45% during his 2 Wizard's seasons is pretty bad if you add in the fact that he did not shoot 3's like Kobe, Iverson, and T-Mac did (Jordan's shot was suspect beyond approximately 15 feet and even when his jumper improved later in his career, his range was still short of the 3-point line). He was the same age as Karl "The Mailman" Malone, who averaged more points, more efficiently, in the same year. Let's take into consideration that Karl Malone didn't just come off of a retirement with back to back years with rest in retirement like Jordan. 20PPG on sub-45% shooting from a guy who takes very few 3-pointers. Not really sure there's all that much to sink in there, especially considering Jordan was no longer the main focus of the opposing team's defense at that age. Don't forget the unique special circumstance of being his own team's boss and using his executive power to keep himself on the court and the ball in his hands no matter how many shots he missed. The fact that Jordan had to shoot more than Kobe (who is still developing himself as a player) just to muster around 20 points, that's a win for the zone defense. Jordan struggled against Zones. It's that simple. Not all teams played Zone that 1st year it came into the league, legally. There were teams that did a lot of isolations. There were teams that still played Man-to-Man that year so Jordan's averages in his WIzard's years were not put up strictly against Zones. One can point to Jordan's high scoring games during his Wizards season and say "He didn't have an issue with Zones" but at the same time, one can also point to his lowest scoring games and say "He had issues with zones". A Wizards career average of 21 PPG from a player who had a Bulls career average of 31.5 PPG is bad. Like, very bad. Zone completely changes up the game and organizations had to reconstruct their rosters to deal with Zone in the early 2000's. There is a reason Jordan brought in players like Tyron Lue, Larry Hughes, Jerry Stackhouse, Kwame Brown, Brendan Haywood, and Byron Russell.
Jordan faced zones during his NCAA years (not on an NBA floor), the Olympics (not on an NBA floor), and his Wizards years (not every single game). In the NCAA where it is allowed, the defenses were able to hold down Jordan, which helped upset the top seeded Tar Heels from making the Final Four two years in a row. They also allowed zone in the Olympic Games. In the '84 Olympics, Jordan shot the 4th worst percentage on that squad. In '92, Jordan shot the absolute WORST percentage of all the Dream Team players. In addition, Jordan led both the '84 and '92 Olympic teams in turnovers. Is it no surprise how much Jordan dominated in a zone-free NBA?
@@tonyboots2958 Still resenting the nauseating amount of Jordan propaganda and mythology that made him a greater player than who he really was? Yes, ma'am. I am.
Then that person from the "Nobody Touches Jordan" cult brings up T-Mac for some strange reason and does so by comparing Jordan's averages thru 46 games to T-Mac's averagesthru 76 games.
Was he trying to make Jordan look even greater than Jordan really was? Jordan was shooting 41% from the field before his knee injury. T-Mac was shooting 3's all season long. Jordan shied away from shooting too many 3's. How is it fair to compare Jordan's averages's thru 46 games to T-Mac's averages thru 76 games? That's a reach. A 38 year old Jordan performing well in the 1st half of the season isn't going to perform the same way in the 2nd half of the season. Common sense says that the body starts to wear down after a certain point. If he was getting the MVP talks at the 1st half of season, all of it would have still died down had he not gotten injured. In the MVP race, stats matter. FG% matter and that's not something that would go in Jordan's favor. As a member of the Jordan fan-base dedicated to showing reasons why Jordan is supposedly better than certain players, that NobodyTouchesJordan person should be committed to being as truthful, objective, logical, unbiased, and open-minded as he can possibly be.
Gotta love random youtube clips compiled by Jordan Jockers to prove that Jordan played in the "tough defensive" era.
7 years ago...ohhh were are you now. Are you old??? :))
Excellent vid.
Jackson recalled that Bryant got a technical foul against Utah, but it was in speaking up for a teammate.
"Other than that, he's been very controlled and stays off them a little bit," Jackson said. "We talked a lot about that during the offseason, about that ability to let those things go."
This is just fantastically done! Nice freaking job.
"Our rules are [designed] to [allow] players to [penetrate] for [high percentage] shots. This has [allowed] for more high quality [perimeter] shots as well, because of how much [easier] it is to penetrate today."
-- Stu Jackson; NBA Executive Vice President, Basketball Operations
As I said before,Teams rarely double kobe off the ball.(rare and very slight double team) You can see all the lakers' game from the past.
Teams from the past double the post quicker than today.
SMH..
"The rules changes did what they were [supposed] to do -- [open up] the game. Scoring average has [increased] from an average [95.6] points per game to this year's [100] per game. Overall FG% has [increased] from [44.0%] in the '98 season to [48.1%] this season. Three-point percentage has [gone up], from [.336] 11 years ago to [.391] this season."
-- David Aldridge, TNT basketball analyst; "Rules changes have affected defensive philosophies, April 23, 2009
G.O.A.T & Kobe DON'T GO in the same sentence kid..U can kill that nonsense..
How the hell can U call someone the G.O.A.T who only has 1 MVP, never was the MVP in the Finals when he was there, has shot the ball "LESS" than 40% for 1/3 of his career, has 0 Def Player Of The Year Awards, NOT among the Top 100 in assists, NOT among the Top 50 in steals & NOT among the Top 10 of ALL TIME in ppg. And the list goes on & on..but he's the "Greatest"?
He doesn't have a LEGIT claim to that honor..
it's not about respect, its about spreading false statements and outright lies to gullible nba fans today who are too lazy to do the research on their own. "Bird is overrated" "weak defensive era, short players" "zone is tougher" PAH is the king of exaggerations and absolute lies, and anyone who steps up and corrects this crap deserves props. We just want to truth to be told.
"They got rid of the ability to use your forearms and contact on the perimeter. It's a guard's league now and that's why you see Chris Paul and Deron Williams having so much success. The new interpretation of the rules doesn't allow contact on the perimeter so it's easier to dominate as a guard right now." - John Paxson 2008
I don't know about that one man..
The Pacers, who the knicks beat in the ECF that year, were ALSO a bit better than the bulls that year. They CERTAINLY had the inside presence to punish the bulls, which they did all throughout the reg season that year..
Granted, it was bad call by hollins, but to say they would've gotten to the finals?
I don't know about that one bro..
ok so mj had the most accurate 3 point shooter in history inflating his assists number and relieving pressure from him. settled. thanks for making it clear.
Who Kerr? 9 point average guy. Mike's the GOAT go sit down. I'm Lebrons age seen them both play not even close!
if u don't buy that, kobe bryant has been playing the game from the age of 18 til 30 nonstop no questions asked. MJ played from 85-03 retiring 3 times. kobe has the greater love for the game cuz he doesn't have silly ass identity crises every few years. he didn't go on wild baseball goose chases.
Yeah this video totally pulls apart that other guys KB video .. Great upload!
Somebody has list that in the internet.You could search it.And he also list those defenders Jordan faced.
Today,small defenders couldn't do good job because the handcheck rule.
Larry Brown: The league wants that. You cant guard anybody anymore, If Michael (Jordan) played today hed average 60 a game, as much as they call fouls on the perimeter. Youve got to have people that can keep guards in front of them without fouling. Its unbelievably important now. And now you need guys that can penetrate and play pick-and-roll and get people involved.
LOL
The "guy" is Ron Harper, dude. He has a well-known stutter problem, played against Jordan in his earlier years and joined the Bulls in the mid-90s where he won 3 titles with #23. He knows what he's talking about even if it sounds funny.
HAHAHAHAHAHA. This is the best video I've seen lately. PAH would be so proud. Thank you for posting this. Great job as always!
This video is perfect.
Double team doesn't equal to zone defense. With zone defense okayed, team "consistently" camp in the paint. It's different than those few moment of isolation defense that looks like it is crowding the paint. It was illegal to stand there in the paint not guarding anyone, and ref consistently give Bulls free throw for it. Phil Jackson actually had specific instruction to bait Ref.
Double team, an isolation offense concept, is actually easier for player to pass out because there is actually a man left open.
I think the speaker of the Kobe video mistakenly uses "double team" to describe zone collapse. It's completely different thing.
yes, i am from hong kong, i would like to communicate in Chinese but i can't type tho. Your video collections really amaze me!!! Where did you get all those? I am a big ass super Jordan fans
And what does MJ's teammates have to do with "his" individual production?
Everytime U kobe homers compare him to other players & the FACTS start debunking your uninformed claims, U IMMEDIATELY try & imply that it's the other guys "team" that's responsible for "his" better individual production as if the SOLE reason for the Lakers success is kobe.
But when kobe's individual #'s are examined, U then BLAME his teammates as if they're the one's out there producing "his" individual #'s LOL!!
If you are talking about hand-check,a guy named Civsuccess2 will send you a video named "Jordan and1 jumper on Starks "to prove that Jordan was benefited from that rule so that he only got 7 FTs a game during early 90's.
JUST LOVED THE 80'S, 90'S NBA RULES... IT'S MORE CHALLENGING FOR GREAT PLAYERS LIKE MIKE ,CHARLES ,LARRY ETC. THAT MAKES THE GAME MORE INTERESTING AND ENTERTAINING...IT'S JUST PROVES HOW GREAT THEY ARE AS AN ATHLETE... YAHOOOOOOOO!!
And he becomes more dangerous and unpredictable on this. Easily adapt to improve more his game, masters his fundamentals and becomes the phenomenal player in the NBA.
was that ron harper at the end with that terrible studdering problem??
These b-ball sites are filled with player size info. And Ehlo was a solid 1 on 1 defender. U guys just devalue him because MJ abused him.
And cherry picking out mugsy & spud to represent the pg's of that era is lame. Don't even go there, because the quality of TRUE pt guards in the NBA today vs then, is a joke!
Again, if today's players are so much better, why'd the NBA change their rules so they could put up the kinda #'s like their predecessors? Still can't answer that question can ya?
As already mentioned, it's not even a real zone. Big men can't camp in the low post because of the 3-second rule, combine that with the handchecking rule and you have a El Dorado for athletic wing men. Even worse, because of the "zone defense" defenders doesn't have to follow their opponents, they can cheat on defense and simply guard open space. It's so easy for perimeter players to take advantage of that and penetrate into the lane. Nobody can touch them, it's an automatic foul. Ridiculous.
In that video,Phil Jackson said jordan is the best post player and kobe has more range.That's all.
Bro doesn’t know the difference between double teams, illegal defense and zone..
So funny,every Jordan fans knows the real handchecking had been limited since 94 .You can't use your full hand when players are facing the rim.
Larry Brown said jordan could drop 100pts if he start playing in 1995
The truth is 90% of time Jordan faces isolation or double team. Quasi zone defense was rare especially in the 90's because it was illegal.
oh well ok if u say so. but u can't hold it against kobe that he wanted to play basketball. i mean i respect that more than anything. here's a kid with a 1420 on the SAT and could do anything he wanted but he knew his destiny was in basketball. that is love for the game. no early retirements, no excuses. he comes in and plays every season as hard as his first.
This video actually proves the few times he faced zones the commentators called it out as illegal. Also you can double team players. That's not zone lol. You couldn't double team in the paint. Which can do today.
Guys in the paint coming in late isn't food defending. Shading lanes is.
Something you couldn't do in the 90's.
Myth
Yawn troll
Saw plenty of double teams in the paint. Nice try troll
@@nonamewillbegiven7228 LMAO
@@jsgr5382 your only response to me. Troll
@@nonamewillbegiven7228 Lmao
This video makes it clear that Jordan era defense was literally wrestling-like. In comparison, today's defense is too gentlemanly.
I got a feeling that guys like Kobe and Lebron would have real problems if they have to face what Jordan had to face.
Yes,bynum and gasol,but nothing changes.
1.Rare in the post.
2.Double team without ball,Rare and slight ..
Jackson said he believed Michael Jordan was fouled on every play when he coached the Bulls. He said coaches and players would tell the referees, "Don't give him those cheap calls."
Jackson said the referees seemed to agree and didn't give Jordan the calls because he "was good enough to do it anyway."
Well ,you could google it.
''I think a lot of has to do with the rules,'' Knicks Coach Larry Brown said last week. ''You see how many free throws guys are shooting, there's so much stuff being called on the perimeter. These guys who can dribble-drive, it's different. I can't imagine what Michael would have gotten with the hand-check rules.
-- Larry Brown
This video makes a lot of people mad
not all the time. i recall in the 1993 season the bulls were called maybe 3 times a game for illegal defense and in 1 playoff game that year they were called for it 4 times.
LBJ and MJ were given the key to the city and a whole team with unlimited playing time and room for development while kobe had to sit the bench for 3 years cuz he was already on an all-star team. don't give credit for lucky circumstances.
who was this guy? do they just make s*** up about Jordan's era? he saw more double teams than anyone.
Kobe had a franchisze handed to him if he had played with the team who drafted him (Charlotte), but he and his agent ended up with the Lakers because his agent said there was no way he could play with Charlotte
I do think there should be an asterisk next to some of these scoring leaders, because it is much different trying to score with a forearm in your face. It is harder to score with that resistance. You had to turn your back on guys defending you back in the day with all the hand checking that was going on. For guys who penetrate these days, it's hunting season. Yes, now you can play zone, but teams rarely do.
Joke,there is no zone in the nba.3 seconds rule ,no handcheck.
no they weren't but nobody is talking about malone and kemp. i didn't say every high school player is better than MJ. just that kobe has that advantage. malone was b4 mj anyways and both of those guys were pretty damn good players.
D league is more competitive cuz it consists of NBA players that either were or could have been drafted playing for an nba team's affiliate "reserve" team. they are called up based on performance and it happens pretty commonly. now since the nba is the highest form of basketball, and the d-league is it's close affiliate it is reasonable to assume it is the better league.
u wanna compare lebron and kobe at the same age for what? kobe wasn't a fucking behemoth since he was in 4th grade. lebron had a grown man's body when he was about 15 years old.
kobe comes to the league to a large market LA team which was already filled with all stars and had to sit on the bench. lebron comes to cleveland and is given the keys to the city like MJ. u guys don't even realize how lucky MJ and lebron have been lucky their whole careers it's sick.
Kuz this is a response to a video that KB42PAH made, showing how today's NBA defenses which Kobe sees are more skilled and more strategic than the defenses that Jordan faced. This vid shows the same scenarios that Kobe faces on the other mix, so the audio is meant to refute the notion that during the Jordan era the defenses were weak. Does that make sense?
They rarely double kobe off the ball.
Many times They doubled Jordan everytime he touched the ball.
I have so many games to prove that.
Do you want to see all of them?