BEFORE COMMENTING: There are people in this comment section who seem to consider this video to be playing into a "left" or "right" wing viewpoint, even though i never used the terms once in the full 54 mins. I don't believe in left vs right politics and I give historical examples in the video that would typically be perceived at both ends of the false left right spectrum. Hate fueled violence does not gain brownie points for casting itself as "left" or "right" wing. Both are repulsive. Regarding terminology: Some commenting are unhappy at my use of the term "social justice" in the title because they believe that term applies only to "left wing" politics and so they think I'm attacking "left wingers" as being equivalent to the Snowtown murderers (despite me citing the Nazis and the War On Terror as larger examples of the same false justification pattern ). I'm aware that the term "social justice" has been used as such by a lot of people for some years and it's one of many politicized distorting language patterns that I disagree with, so I've very intentionally used the term where it rationally applies, in spite of the cultural misinterpretation. Stopping child abuse IS a "social" issue and IS a form of "justice". To my knowledge most ppl oppose child abuse whether they believe themselves left or right wing. In fact the false left vs right spectrum IS an example of divisive victim vs abuser semantics (each side perceiving the other as abuser) that has historically been used to justify mass destruction and violence from both extremes that in practice are very similar once the semantic justifications are stripped away.
Interesting to note, Rob. Bunting apparently had a fascination with Nazism from an early age. Seems to be common among serial killers and other perpetrators of violence like school shooters.
@@Yeomannn Yes and reportedly a Neo-Nazi group he and Wagner joined kicked them out for being too extreme. Even they didn't want him. His animal cruelty and racism are telling. His so-called morality regarding pedophilia didn't extend to other areas.
@Marlo Crane I don't understand your comment. I was pointing out something that's been noted over the years. I don't believe in the Nazi boogeyman the media is selling us.
@@Yeomannn There are neo-Nazi types out there (I've met some), just as there are violent Commie types. My impression at the moment is thet Neo-Nazi stuff isn't popular enough to be a serious danger, but we do have to keep an eye on it. The recent "left wing" trashing of cities in the US is an immediate problem agree. But don't let yourself get dragged off to either extreme. That's what the most powerful corrupt players want - left vs right, black vs white, men vs women, blah blah blah.
I'm from South Australia. My ex Girlfriend knew John Bunting when she was a kid she and her brother and sister knew him as uncle John (he was the ultimate manipulator) and their family allowed John and his friends to store the 4 wheel drive vehicle on their property with the bodies in the barrels because it was said that they contained kangaroo cascaras to be used as pet food. After 3 months, the smell became too unbearable (as you can imagine) so the barrels were shifted from their Hoyleton property to the bank in Snowtown. Bunting and friends would shower at my ex girlfriends place (covered in blood) and they even cooked part of the last victims body claiming it was pork and fed it to her then father-in-law. South Australia is definitely a very odd place..
I agree with you on the left V right political situation. It is awful to deal with over here in America. The middle ground has slowly been rotting away. We are reaching a point of no compromise. I feel bad for anyone else that has to go through this anywhere in the world.
There’s no 2 sides. There’s one goal with different methods of reaching it using various methods and groups of ppls beliefs against them. Notice that we’ve been fighting about gender and race since trump got in but they’ll always come together for a war right now it’s dems cheering for the war in ukraine and repubs cheering for the war in Israel, both claiming it’s for democracy and peace but neither side (of voters) supports the others war at this point but the politicians do and big companies do. It’s amazing to watch really.
“The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior ‘righteous indignation’ - this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.” Aldous Huxley
I watched the movie and they started being vigilantes, but then ultimately running welfare scams and I wondered if that was the whole point of these crimes and it wasn't really about punishing criminals.
I agree, that was an added bonus...for want of a better word. Robert Wagner and mark haydon were dismissed by the judge as ' passive manservants'. Jamie Vlassakis and his mother did participate in the murder's.
I question the killers motives as well. Becoming self proclaimed vigilantes & doing what the police wont do, to justify their actions is OK? Not only do Bunting & his cohorts, beat pedos up, they torture & kill them. Again- that's ok? Bunting moves on to more criminal activities. That's ok? So- murder, torture & participating in financial scams & other criminal activity, even to the point where Bunting would even kill innocent people is ok, makes it clear Bunting was a psychopath who had a lust for power & control, & being a savior for the people was a ruse & he knew it. Some people are evil, but they always justify their actions like Roger says, placing thier crimes in a social justice framework.
i live in Elizabeth, South Aus (next suburb over from Salisbury where the bulk of murders took place). It's quite a bizzare place. Slightly rural, with a lot of disabled and unemployed ppl. If you spend some time here and get to know the average local, I think you'll start to understand how something like this could unfold.
Superheroes having little to no emotional expressions in fights, John Bunting and others in Snowtown movie hardly having any expression in torture, that's something in common.
@Always watching People who play Call of Duty games online grit their teeth too. In fact, there are times when I got that Call of Duty gaming vibe such as this clip, note the casually relaxed voices, lack of sweat and heavy breathing, etc. ruclips.net/video/ab_XwyZsPxc/видео.html Oh, and the disassociation of heroes who wear masks seems to be a key factor as to why the marketing posters for the newer Avengers film have the actors' faces fully shown... unlike Deadpool.
It was the same for me. Rarely does a film effect me like this one did. I felt like I had this weight of depression on me for days. It's one of the worst cases I've ever heard of.
@@CynicalBastard Kyle Rittenhouse was defending himelf against people who were chasing him and attacking him with a skateboard and a gun. There’s even video footage of it you can find with a Google search.
@@esyphillis101 He was brandishing a weapon and entering a place where his brandishing said weapon was to instigate protestors. He was a vigilante who should be charged with murder.
Idk if you'll read this but I just wanted to thank you for your work on RUclips. I've been very depressed this past year because of, well you know. Your videos have really helped me out because of how calming your voice is and how in depth you go with your discussions. They are very intriguing and allow me to think about something better for awhile so I just wanted to say thank you Rob.
@@RavenWing1972 oh yes much better. I starting running 6 days a week not long after posting this comment and that helped immensely, losing weight and all that. My job reopened in April and I've been thriving since then, I've gotten a few raises. It's night and day now compared to a year ago. Thank you for your kind words though and I hope everything goes well for you.
Agree. Rogers is that laid back uncle you've always wanted. I don't always agree with his analysis, but im often persuaded to look at things in a different way & it's amazing how Rob finds thes subliminal images that tell a different story than what we see on the surface. I don't know you, but I'm sorry you've had some problems. Covid has really affected my life, including my family. My girlfriend and I have had a multitude of medical issues as well. But we never give up. People like Roger are positive influences. I hope you endure, and are able to find joy in this complex life. Peace.
Other historical examples: dekulakization, the Reign of Terror, the Haitian slave revolt, Nat Turner's slave uprising, and the Guangxi Massacre RUclips ate my comment without a justification, so this is a repost
And example of a "social" transcendental being "blurred" by a national socialist wanna-be [who sees social "justification" in merely his own kind, and not across the board, cause that would be too honest].
I learned another new thing about Rob Ager today! Hard to believe I'm your senior--you're so knowledgeable in an area that has fascinated me for decades.
I feel for those that actually live in Snowtown. Their town will now be forever linked to this horrendous story even though the crimes were committed elsewhere.
Always appreciate these more intimate videos on the psychology of movies based on or inspired by real events, Rob. It makes me curious about your thoughts on other cases like this, this one in particular echos some sentiments heard here in America back in the 90s with the West Memphis Three case if you're familiar with it at all. Do you have any opinions on that whole Paradise Lost documentary and subsequent coverage on that case?
South Aussie here too. Old neighbours back in the 90s had to go testify about the Snowtown murders as they were friends with someone who was friends with one of the murderers and knew about some stuff around it. It was a bit of a crazy time but I was really too young to understand but I remember being friends with that family and then they suddenly moved right after the Snowtown murder cases closed.
I think a lot of students would learn more about morality from this video, Rob, than a year’s worth of education from certain activist lecturers. You’re a good influence on people, and I genuinely enjoy your film analysis videos even though I’m not a film student myself. Keep up the great work!
In a time where everything i enjoy is infected with politics to varying degrees, you rise above and let me just enjoy your videos. Thank you for the work you do, your film analyses are thought provoking and allow me to enjoy films like Alien and The Shining that much more.
In some countries young kids who torture homeless animals are put in register in police dossier as future recidivists, about 3% of population. Often In movies 2 dimensional bullies represented as recidivists who feel no remorse and empathy for victims. Good example of" good" bully is Nelson from Simpsons he understands that he is bully and he enjoys this role, but he also understands boundaries how much pain he can apply to victims before entering zone of torture.
You just reminded me a of a story. An old neighbor's cat went missing and he went into a near by council flat complex (council flats are basically social housing or 'the projects', as they are called in the US) to search for it. He never found his cat, but on one of the cement stairway landings he found another dead cat that had been tortured. The poor creature had been given a 'Chelsea Smile'. The thin copper wire that was used to do this had been discarded near the dead animal. The landing itself was stained from the blood. It may still well be! I also remember a story from an area close to where I grew up. One Hallow'een, a group of local kids found a cat and placed a lit 'banger' up it's backside. Jesus wept!
I'm kind of in two minds about that policy...it's an incredibly ingenious policy as we all know harming animals in early childhood is one of the major indicators of serial murders. But then the other half thinks a dossier isn't enough; instead childhood therapy is a bit kinder and may actually do some good instead of just stamping a number next to some kids name, y'know? Seems more humane and less "faceless"
@@vollsticks Priorities that some policeman had lawyer degree or degree in psychology very good skills in their work, same and with social worker, but priorities are money and higher GDP, solutions is more technology aka technocracy rule. Investment directly into humans education is worthless. Best example nurses underpaid medical stuff and often bullied but higher ranking doctors and administrators, and like bribes (same and lower rank police officers), frustration often drainage on patients by lack of care, in (nurse careless, police brutality) solution more technology, China gone Police state surveillance mode. ruclips.net/video/wd9NQxIeAAc/видео.html&ab_channel=WilliamEberwein - The Machine that goes Bing So yeah solution is methadone clinics, insane asylums, juvenile incarceration's houses, computer servers, dossier is enough.
@@vollsticks True. It seems a little like a scene from Brazil...a giant X beside a kid's name on a file somewhere, and then dragging out the file years later after the kid offends as if to say 'see, told you so'. What real use would that be?!
@@davidlean1060 Yes, exactly. And we know how often files get "lost" even in this digital age...a scene from Brazil indeed! I love Gilliam. You know Ian Holmes' role as Mr. Kurtzmann is an homage to Mad/Little Annie Fannie, massive influence to the underground comics scene, gave Robert Crumb his first comics job, the fondly-remembered Harvey Kurtzman? You probably know but Gilliam worked for him as a youth in New York, I think it was on Trump magazine, the Hugh Hefner-funded Mad-type comic magazine (which is rare as hell these days, it folded after, iirc three or four issues. Fantagraphics released a beautiful collection that I coudn't afford at the time which I believe is now out of print...and priced accordingly! I know people who were almost literally salivating when the book was announced in the Fanta seasonal catalogue/on the site, it's THAT MUCH of a coveted cultural artifact. Beautifully presented in a slipcase with two hardcover books, a thing of beauty to behold...sod it I'm gonna look the price up on Abe and see if there's any on E-Bay!), doing "fumetti"--comics done with photographs. Although fumetti means proper, illustrated comics in Italy--the word comes from "cloud", because of the appearance of the thought/speech bubbles....sorry for the blog post!
Pedophilia is a mental illness & is often bred by sexual trauma, & should be treated as such. Putting these people in prison is not going to make them stop sexually assaulting children, rather, makes it worse. Pedos learn how-to be smarter & more careful. These predator require long term hospital care & treatment with counseling, & often help with a psychiatrist & medication.
In a somewhat similar vein, have you researched the Salem Witch Trials? Its fascinating how some young girls, through lies and stories, turned a normal town on its head.
@@jocaerbannog9052 there have been several papers written on the psychology behind the Salem Witch Trials, including the old theory regarding the ifluence of ergot group think, and mass conversion disorder( I had to look the last one up, my memory was dodgy). Its fascinating stuff.
I watched the film on this recommendation and I'm glad, if that is the word (!!) that I did. The tone, the acting are all perfect. It has that Mike Leigh, Ben Wheatley realism which makes it look like someone just turned up with a camera and began filming real events. The fella playing Bunting is mesmerizing! I love how he puts on that 'smiling eyes' look when trying to encourage support from the townsfolk, but you see a different side to him during that scene in the kitchen when Barry, the cross dresser, is giving him the names of all the sex offenders he knows. The hidden contempt in Bunting's face as he asks him to pause (so he can finish writing a name) is chilling.
@@collativelearning I may never hear the words 'what about you, mate?' without hearing it in his voice again! The young man who played Jamie was captivating too. I 'forgot' he was an actor at times. I genuinely caught myself feeling for the guy because of all the horror he has witnessed in his life. The casting overall was spot on. The cross dresser, the skinny guy with the beard, they all came across as real. It may well be the best movie from Oz I have seen since Mad Max 2!
This was one of the most disturbing films I've ever seen. Only watched it once with no intention of seeing it again. I will however watch your video as it is an intriguing premise.
...its like the french revolution in miniture! Like, REALLY. I wish everyone with their political blood up would soak in the lesson before they bring on what's likely coming... I mean, they're putting guillotines on lawns for crying out loud. They literally are. Who would have thought, Rob, when we were back in the hopeful 90's, that the ongoing quest for universal Human Rights would come to this... Bless you and yours, Mr Ager, stay healthy.
Great video, Rob. You have a talent for speaking and we need more people in the world with your perspective of our social situations to speak up more often. We have so many sensational people that are extremists on both sides of modern issues, neither of which are very sound of mind. When a person, like yourself, uses their platform to offer a more level headed topic of discussion... it's always a welcome contribution in my opinion. It takes grit to put out a video like this, because the world is not very open minded recently (at least the loud mouths are not very open minded). Thanks for being you and putting your thoughts out there. Keep it up! P.S. I still want to collaborate with you on a re-analysis of The Exorcist! lol
WOW, I watched this because of an old recommendation list you made a while ago. I never thought I would see a vid on it though. Thanks, there was a lot a lot to talk about in that one
Snowtown paints a very different picture of Australia from what we see on Home & Away. But then I notice how everyone in Summer Bay looks like a supermodel. What happened to all the ugly people? Then I realized they're the same story. The Summer Bay police should start their investigations with Alf who doesn't look like a supermodel.
Even back in the 1970's, there is the movie Wake in Fright which was looked down upon in the past because of its real kangaroo shooting scenes, but it has re-emerged with appreciation in recent years.
@@Yeomannn It got slammed a little, but it's not too bad. The apparent lack of success didn't do Fassbender much good career wise, which is a shame as he is a fantastic actor. Last I saw, he was driving cars for Porche. I think he wanted to make it to the Le Man 24 hour race.
incredible story, I never heard of it until now But I actually do know alot of people in my surroundings, those that are a bit more "earthly" lets call them, that would support this (kill the pedos etc). So if these people had legit feelings that the state isn't doing enough against it, I can see it being quite easy for a figure like Bunting to have easy game.
Very interesting video Rob. Even though I don't always agree with some of the take-aways your videos, I always appreciate your willingness to take on very divisive issues and keep an open mind. I find it very troubling how many of my otherwise "peace-loving" and "open-minded" friends are so willing to talk/joke about killing pedos, nazis, racists, etc... and don't get me wrong I find pedophilia and racism despicable, but I don't think it should be grounds for extrajudicial violence. I do think that a lot of people aren't honest about their (Jungian) Shadow selves and the darker aspects of their personality, instead trying to bury the violent impulses, and air these base impulses through revenge fantasies against undesirable groups or perceived "evil doers."
You ask some interesting questions at the end, and I'd like to share my ideas: Firstly, I think you are spot on that the people engaged in this torture/murder case were not interested in social justice, but used it as a cover to act out their own perverted fantasies. I don't think a normal person, no matter how angry, can engage voluntarily even in mild torture (as far as any form of torture can be considered "mild"). In cases like this, where the torture is clearly the goal, I think one will always find extreme sexual perversion, even if their minds may cover it up through excuses like "social justice", because they subconsciously understand that their desires are unacceptable. Secondly, one pattern I have noticed with proponents of so-called "social justice" is that projected self-hate seems to play a large role in their motivations, and this self-hate stems from their own perception that their ancestors were inferior. The giveaway here, is that the more extreme types often go digging into the history books (or simply come up with alternative history theories) in search of a source of self-esteem. The mind speaks in riddles.
Interesting stuff! With regards to what you said towards the end about the way people give their crimes a political or social slant, there's actually a term for this: Neutralisation. "Neutralisation Theory," states that criminals do not have inherently different values or morals to non-criminals, they simply justify their actions in some way. People actually do this all the time over trivial matters. You've probably done it in the past few days. They take an action that conflicts with their values but "neutralise" it with a thought that suits their values. The classic examples of this would be things like: "Yes I stole a loaf of bread but my family is starving," or more complex thought like: "Yes I stole from the grocery store, but they're a huge company with insurance and they underpay their staff anyway," and can even take a more ambiguous character, like: "Yes that man on the street is poor, but if I give him my money he'll just use it on drugs/alcohol." This is actually a really important concept to understand, as the belief that criminals have some fundamental moral failing in problematic on a few levels. First of all, it assumes that the law necessarily reflects morality. In some cases that's true, but in many cases it's not. This will vary from place to place and time to time, but (apologies for the lazy analogy) a simple look at the laws of Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia will tell you that the law is not a good barometer for morality. Laws are often co-opted by the rich and influential to suit their own needs, and not to suit any particular values system. This leads into the next issue: that most people who are convicted of crimes come from desperate backgrounds, and tend to belong to minority groups, leading to the supposition that those minorities are valueless and amoral. In reality, they have the exact same morals as the majority, they just don't have the same means. That's even before you consider the fact that those in positions of privilege are less likely to be caught and convicted of crimes. A lot of what you've touched on in this video pertains to Neutralisation, though it is a very extreme example.
Good summary Michael. Thanks. My only point of disagreement (sort of) is your example about giving money to the homeless, which isn't a crime. I worked with the homeless for years and, at least in the contexts I worked in, drug and alcohol addiction were virtually always the primary motive for street begging. ost of them were being fed and sheltered in the homeless hostels anyway. i'd see them helping old ladies across the street to look good socially and motivate them to give some change, then i'd see them mug another resident in the hostel. There were even rapes and booze for sexual favours going on in there. On that basis I don't give change to people who claim to be homeless any more and my colleagues wouldn't either. You could think of that as "neutralization", but then you could think of those people's behaviour in the same way ;)
Maybe that was a bad example, I just meant to illustrate that people neutralise their personal values and morals all the time in non-criminal settings and that the behaviour isn't exclusive to the underworld or anything. E.g., the average person without any particular experience or insight into homelessness would use that kind of rationalisation despite valuing charity as a virtue, since it serves them in that moment.
@M G I believe Collative is in the UK so his personal experience may well bear out there, at least in the places he worked. I think his experience was with offenders specifically, but it's been a while and I cbf reading the discussion again haha
It helps to avoid ‘group think’ if you don’t watch TV thereby also avoiding what passes for news. I also discount anything I am told because at least 50% will be bullcrap. Cynicism can be helpful.
It's always useful to keep up to date what's happening in the world. On social media, I'd get plenty of praises and interesting counter-arguments for contributing to debates in the comment sections of news articles. I'm currently reinforcing public awareness of the UK's ONS statistics comparing Covid and flu deaths... Groupthink!!!
Tv is a back water now when it comes to media trying to 'influence' people. Social media is where that stuff is at now. Have a read in to how Cambridge Analytica influenced elections in Jamaica for example.
@@CynicalBastard First of all, learn to drop daft modern phrases like 'group think'. Those terms come strait from corporate boardrooms where, we all know, they are used to cover bluffery! Never use that phrase again! ;)
I can understand resorting to murder. The recidivism rate for child rapists is through the roof. They just refuse to stop, and if the prison system isn't going to keep them under lock and key, then innocent victims will have to take the matter into their own hands.
I was abused and my abuser is dead. His death was natural, he lived a long life, and he got only a month in prison for his crime. I can 100% see why these people did want the pedos gone, but I can also see Bunting taking advantage of a communities outrage to provide an outlet for his own sadism. If they were just quickly killing only pedophiles, they'd probably be seen as community heros rather than villains.
'The Snowtown Murders' by Andrew McGarry and 'Killing For Pleasure' by Debi Marshall are both informative books for anyone interested in this topic, and were used as research material by Shaun Grant in writing the script for the movie. They go into some detail about Bunting's early life: his sexual abuse (he and a friend were molested by an adult friend of the family who shortly after died in a motorcycle accident before the boys could get court justice, or personal revenge), his fascination with violence, his job at a slaughterhouse where he abused animals, as Mr. Ager mentions. (There's a very strange picture, not extant online, in one of the books wherein he poses as a young man, long-haired, next to an antique car at his job working in a *car museum*... he smiles pleasantly at the cameraman and, man, it's just a surreal photo.) Bunting didn't give a damn about 'social justice' or any peaceful solutions, he was a sadistic narcissist who enjoyed transferring the same kind of pain and humiliation some other sicko had inflicted on him as a child. He engaged in cannibalism after killing his last victim; where's the 'social justice' in that?
I'm dubious of Bunting's claims about what he experienced at age 8. He might have made it up or massively exaggerated it to serve his narrative. His story that he couldn't get revenge on the attacker because the attacker died while riding away on a motorbike and crashing right after the attack ... that part smacks of fabrication, but it makes sense that he experienced some sort of abuse given the intensity of his hatred later in life.
@@collativelearning You might very well be right about him lying - since, although we have knowledge of the claim from James Vlassakis's testimony and not directly from Bunting, Bunting certainly made good use of the story to curry favor with Jamie, ultimately coaxing him into joining in on the torture murder of his abusive brother Troy. A sob story might have been what Bunting needed at the time.
Sorry for the doublepost, but another interesting aspect to the development of Bunting as a high-functioning sadist, is that his very first murder victim, Clinton Trezise, was 1) gay, but not a pedophile, and 2) was killed without prior torture. He never knew what hit him, getting a shovel to the back of the head by Bunting in his apartment, and it's almost like Bunting was testing himself with this surprise experiment. (Robert Wagner was with him but waited outside.) Evidently he rapidly attained a deeper predilection for killing, and felt sooner or later the need of escalating the administration of pain for a properly pleasurable effect, almost like a drug; hence the gruelling horrorshows of the later murders. And yes, there was definitely a sexual component to the torturing. I also found it interesting that Mr. Ager referred to Barry Lane as, "Quite a nasty guy" - which is funnily similar to how a woman at a dinner table in the 2011 film refers to Barry as a "Nasty character." Maybe a subconscious throughline going on there.
I had watched this after you had mentioned it in your list of movies you hated to watch alone I believe? A very disturbing case and film but what a view it was. Thank you for that and all your other vids ❤️
Debi Marshall is a criminal journalist and author who attended all the courtcases and wrote a book about it called "killing for pleasure". It's worth reading as she got to listen to all the tapes they made of their victims and reports factually. She also wrote "lambs to the slaughter" about Australia's worst pedophile / murderer.
You're correct, Rob. There is a serial killer who later blogged about his murders and the narrative he used to justify his crimes was one filled with 'social justice themes'. The fact that he murdered children and entire families was secondary to his 'mission'. As if if were ultimately all our fault that we couldn't understand the broader issues that he had with society./s
Speaking of social justice, this sort of brings a less "heroic" light to some of the things that the main characters in the Dragon Tattoo series do, it's a work of fiction, but still... Haven't watched that movie in a while, its just the first thing that came to mind concerning "sexual torture vengeance" Other films that also come to mind: Sympathy for Lady Vengeance, and Audition.
This is why I don’t trust those “To Catch a Predator” type channels here on RUclips. Like yeah, these perverts deserve punishment, but *why are these dudes specifically doing this*
A couple of additional details I found interesting. 1) There was a moment in the movie version that shows Jamie befriending a nice charismatic boy, but John Bunting seems to see the boy as a threat to his social dominance that he kills him. 2) I'd read somewhere online regarding one of the brutal tortures that just before torturing one of their victims, John Bunting pressed his head hard against his victim. Never heard of that before, the impression I get is that he is sort of prepping his aggression up, but it may also be what he was subjected to as a victim (if that's true), like he's adopting the traits of both the victim and abuser.
Yeah there's so many interesting facets of the case once you get past the shock factor. The thing about staring his victims eye to eye up close as they're tortured is so unusual and, frankly terrifying ... even that close he had no empathy for their suffering. didn't mention in the video much, but i don't think Jamie Vlassakis was as innocent as the movie made out. The book I read said he was smiling and waving to journalists while leaving the court room - a mismatch for how sheepishly passive he is in the movie.
Collative Learning They probably portrayed Jamie as more innocent and passive to play up the theme of John abusing him in much the same way his brother did.
Bunting liked to get into their faces and stare into their eyes to see and feel the exact second he'd killed them after reviving them over and over. No complicated or wild "psychology" from his past involved. He was waiting to see and feel their death. He loved the power.
I have read your pinned comment: duly noted. I am 62 and have worked with sexual predators, murderers etc as a forensic psychiatrist for the decades. What I am hearing in this horrific, if well told narrative is something like the development of a serial killing cult (sexual homicide with torture - think Manson family) that DISTORTS social justice principles to deflect from the in-group's wrong doing i.e. the cruelty - definitely NOT a principle of social justice. In my opinion, you present clear evidence that sadism / anger was always part of the torture / killings - social justice was never the motive but the cover which is why we end up killing yuppies. It's all about excitement - we all want to be important and powerful and calling children's protective services or the police makes us feel small and powerless especially because these groups - often constrained by annoying things like "evidence" ....FAR easier to follow the leader join the cult and indulge and enact one's worst phantasies.....until the spell breaks. Thank you. G
Ideally an individual should use logic and their intuition, to navigate and filter through thought processes.Ultilizing both sides of the brain, is key to understanding and comprehension.
I find a lot of anti-sjw types online to be reactionaries who re-purpose SJW talking points for their own agenda. THIS however was a very thoughtful take. You took a film that I like and made me look at it from a completely different angle. Your best video.
I’ve always been annoyed that inmates kill rapists and pedophiles in prison. Like they’re so righteous and just . Robbery , that’s fine . Serial killer , you’re good! Spree killer ? Still good . And every other crime is A -ok . Not sympathizing with any offenders of course . But when bad people wanna play the good guy , fk off !
I watched the film - it is excellent and waaaay better than the “video nasty” status some sites label it. Very good exploration of underclass and masculinity - and very telling that it was not lauded while inferior Aussiefilms like AnimalKingdon gained awards.
I know you don't want to talk about politics and I would argue that I am being more evenhanded in this post. People can be affected by social justice crusaders and vindictive justice. Most moral panics start with some kernel of truth and then go down this road where the scope of it creeps slowly wider. Frankly this is what's happening with the Left NOW. However let's not kid ourselves it's happened plenty of times on the right in the past. Certainly if it happens on the right I will oppose it every step of the way. The progression you've described is what we experienced with the modern left Rob we all know this. This sort of behavior needs to be stopped regardless of where it comes from. Left, Right, Center, doesn't matter this moral panic and anger is always malignant.
Iove you videos rob i own a few of your dvds. Your film analysis is better than any ive ever encountered. I also watch of true Crime this felt like abit of a dream crossover. The end segment i found most interesting the gory details doesnt do it for me but learning about killers background is fascinating. I would watch a video you made on the mist mundane subject but any analysis on killers lifestyle and mindset or even a film analysis or a movie versus real life i would love
Cheers. I have some vids on Silence of the Lambs that go into the same subjects. A couple are on this channel a couple more are paywall items on my site :)
@@collativelearning thanks for the suggestion I will check them out tonight. I should purchase some more of you work its been a while. Im a long time fan i remember when you first starting selling your dvds I bought kubrick decoded and a couple of others. Keep up the good work 👏. I really enjoyed the part in this where you talked about mass media and repetition, have you seen nigel farages interview with douglas Murray if you havnt seen it i Highly recommend it
I noticed The Guardian was occasionally more lenient with presenting un-PC and anti-EU elements back before the 2010's. Must've been a different editor.
@@jocaerbannog9052 Yeah I was just thinking that editorial decisions from that era may well have been massively different than what sort of lunacy appears to occur there now
@@arklowrockz That one was truly tragic. It's not well known though because it happened at the same time as the James Bulger murder which exploded in the news media, another tragic case, but Suzanne Capper was tortured daily for more than a week from what I recall. all apparently because they were angry with her for supposedly stealing a coat !!! Where's the f***ing guillotine!
Ager certainly earned his place sitting in at a Mensa meeting; his brilliant mind can conjure up original meaning to the most well established of concepts with no hesitation.
I remember vividly watching Snowtown Murders and was absolutely shocked at the realism and intensity of certain scenes. Also shocked to learn that it was a true story. Personally, I think that movie (and all the other fd up videos I've ever seen) have given me extremely violent dreams for years. For that reason, I don't watch shit like that anymore. As I get older, the importance of having a good nights rest becomes most important. Additionally, I definitely would not allow a child to watch this film, ever. Though, this brings up an interesting point about violence in media and where one draws their line. Obviously, for me, it was here. On the other hand, it's fun to watch scary movies and feel the exhilaration of being frightened, but it's a whole OTHER thing to be depressed because you have vivid images of brutal, inhumane acts on constant replay stuck in your head. It's absolutely horrible. When I was growing up, I thought gorey violence was cool to watch, but never once thought of it as psychologically damaging. Personally, I think it can be when, take for instance, certain scenarios. Soldiers who have been to combat and witnessed grotesque acts of violence, or inmate prisoners who see people get beaten to death. Being in person is different, yes, but watching on film violence still comes across loud and clear. My point is that there comes a point where the observer cannot stop thinking about what just happened (which is what happened to me when I watched a lot of gorey content). Thankfully though, things eventually improved after some time when I stopped watching this kind of content. Being that I like to live a peaceful life now and want to see the good in mankind, I'm more aware of this. As a result, I'm happier and feel mentally healthier also. However, this is just my experience and certainly I would say there exist qualifiers that I just can't fully explain. For example, I've never thought twice to think of videogame violence as damaging as realistic gorey movies. I know that violence is violence, but it's hard to explain. Videogame violence simply does not effect me in the same way as cinematic violence. Perhaps, because cinematic violence has always seemed more 'real.' One could also argue that videogames also feature cinematic gore.
The really sad part is that the people who need to hear this message about the social justice trap or cover are completely unreceptive to it. Lost a good friend of mine to it, actually. She was just the kindest, sweetest, most nonjudgemental person you ever met, and now she's angry, hate-filled, and prejudiced - convinced that she's the poor oppressed victim because of her sex and orientation. I saw it happening, and tried to warn her away from it, tried to speak logic to her, but in the end that just made me a "fascist sympathizer" in her mind. It honestly does feel like I lost her to a cult.
When you say abuse of children is the biggest issue in the world, do you mean sexual abuse of children only or any form of abuse, like parents abusing their power in education etc.?
@Marlo Crane That's not what i was talking about specifically. There are millions upon millions of kids domestically abused by their own parents, siblings and other family members ... plus the organised pedo stuff you mention. I consider them part of the same problem.
There is a degree of wilful blindness to the abuse that's going on. Look at Joe Biden for example. What he does is pretty blatant, out in public and on camera. Just imagine what he does in private. And half the country is going to vote for him.
Checking JB's background before interviewing him might be better. Then you could let him talk and reveal himself, and have an idea whether he were being truthful, or justifying himself, or full of BS, or any combination of the above, before he had a chance to arouse your sympathy. John Douglas prepared well for his interviews with serial killers, and even he had doubts sometimes because these guys have as lot of time to adjust their memories. That said, I love the idea of sending someone to interview him!
Oh yeah, Dean Corll. Very nasty guy. Dean Corll knew he was gay, but he was closeted. A lot to say about him, he was very neurotic and a pretty complex guy if you look into the case.
Another great program to watch “ Crime investigation Australia “ In one episode they showcase the snowtown bodies in the barrels murders ... Interesting watch .
@@maeton-gaming oh no that one police supporting teenager killed 2 convicted felons beating him over the head with skateboards and drop kicking him in the street and pulling guns out to murder him... million dollar bond. murder charges. other riots? 2 bIack teens murdered in chaz in portland? police charge no one.
I live in an adjacent state to SA. Let me just say that Adelaide ( the city of churches!) is a very strange place. Rumours about a paedohilia network have bedevilled the city for decades. There are some very gruesome murders of young men that occurred there. Snowtown was simply awful- I still cannot watch the film because of the torture element and victims, who lived on the fringes - the ‘ missing ’ missing.
Much better historical parallel would be the Salem Witch Trials of 1692. A group of young girls are mysteriously afflicted by a strange maledy and madness that science cannot explain. Soon the culprit is found the Devil and his wicked agents amongst the townspeople of Salem are raping, torturing, and manipulating these sweet innocent young girls. Then an orgy of terror, torture, and murder is unleashed upon the village. Neighbor accuses neighbor, family turns on family, and both weak and strong attacking each other. The madness only ends when the accusations become so outlandish that certain members of the Massachusettes colonial govt are soon being accused of being league with the Devil. It is only then cooler heads step in to stop the craziness, but only at the cost of several innocent lives and a lifetime of mental scars. While in some cases the justification is "social justice," I feel it more about a term Americans use called vigilante justice. In other words, rule of law, innocent before proven guilty, and the rights of the accused are completely disregarded in favor or vengeance and terror. That we can only have a peaceful and just society if we employ these simple methods which is great if you are on the right side of the law but not so great when you find yourself accused of whatever trumped up crime. This thinking appeals to and is related two arrogant human conceits still with us even today that we are rational, logical thinkers not prone to misjudgement or bias and that we will never be falsely accused and convicted of a crime due to pettiness, jealousy, or as you point out sadistic rage by other people. I would say one other thing that greatly helps in combating this tunnel vision and vigilante mentality is having experienced such vigilantism and injustice first hand. Being me tooed, smeared by jealous or petty people, or being treated like a pariah based only idle gossip and suspicion.....when you have experienced such injustice I can tell you from experience it is VERY HARD to condemn or participate in such activities. You are far more likely to oppose such actions and protect the person being slandered or harmed by this group think behavior. Lots of food for thought in this video that I have come expect from all your work. Top marks sir. 😎
I think this is a good analysis of elements of human nature. I also agree that such actions have to be constrained within certain limits. "left" and "right" is a false paradigm and Rob Ager doesn't engage in that false-paradigm. I will say however that it's hard to have sympathy for pedophiles. This is by far not the only example of people doing these types of things to pedophiles. In Latin America people will often kill pedophiles in this sort of way. Mere accusations can be a problem but if the acts of pedophilia can be evidenced to a certain reasonable measure... Then have at them and have no mercy I say.
@@CynicalBastard wtf are you even saying. If I catch someone raping my child or I have ample evidence of this, I'm not going to be worried about "the law"
rob, have you read HEREDITARY screenplay there's lots of intresting stuff that aster left out for some reason. Also how are you SELF EMPLOYED? i mean how do you make your living? .I am quite intrested in that. Also Also Also can you name the books behind you?
The books behind Rob... the right middle one is definitely a production history book of the classic TV show The Prisoner, below that seems to be a book on Rene Magritte, I recognise the book spine of top left as Rosemary's Baby novel. Can't really tell what the other books actually are.
I just started watching this today, and although I know you were avoiding the annoying left/right back-n-forth with how this was discussed afterwards, it seems the US doesn't want that, @Collative Learning 😂😭
It probably is, but there's been a fair amount of serial murder there. The small town where these murders happened was awful, but apparently it's not actually in adelaide.
@@collativelearning It's about 2 hrs from the city. There is a lot of dark spots & isolated roads out there. I agree it was awful. Keep making great videos Rob.
It's as if people who are complete zealots are unstable and tend to delve into psychotic, evil behavior because they're convinced they're the only good person/people in the world, and everybody else has it coming! ....But no, we need to break this down to one political side or the other, right youtube comments section? Not like this is an instructive moral lesson everybody should learn from and strive to better themselves and temper their own egocentric moral compass. That might involve self-reflection!
BEFORE COMMENTING: There are people in this comment section who seem to consider this video to be playing into a "left" or "right" wing viewpoint, even though i never used the terms once in the full 54 mins. I don't believe in left vs right politics and I give historical examples in the video that would typically be perceived at both ends of the false left right spectrum. Hate fueled violence does not gain brownie points for casting itself as "left" or "right" wing. Both are repulsive.
Regarding terminology: Some commenting are unhappy at my use of the term "social justice" in the title because they believe that term applies only to "left wing" politics and so they think I'm attacking "left wingers" as being equivalent to the Snowtown murderers (despite me citing the Nazis and the War On Terror as larger examples of the same false justification pattern ). I'm aware that the term "social justice" has been used as such by a lot of people for some years and it's one of many politicized distorting language patterns that I disagree with, so I've very intentionally used the term where it rationally applies, in spite of the cultural misinterpretation. Stopping child abuse IS a "social" issue and IS a form of "justice". To my knowledge most ppl oppose child abuse whether they believe themselves left or right wing. In fact the false left vs right spectrum IS an example of divisive victim vs abuser semantics (each side perceiving the other as abuser) that has historically been used to justify mass destruction and violence from both extremes that in practice are very similar once the semantic justifications are stripped away.
Interesting to note, Rob. Bunting apparently had a fascination with Nazism from an early age. Seems to be common among serial killers and other perpetrators of violence like school shooters.
@@Yeomannn Yes and reportedly a Neo-Nazi group he and Wagner joined kicked them out for being too extreme. Even they didn't want him. His animal cruelty and racism are telling. His so-called morality regarding pedophilia didn't extend to other areas.
@Marlo Crane It's actually pretty scary just how damaging social media has been in the last decade. It is the #1 brainwashing tool right now.
@Marlo Crane I don't understand your comment. I was pointing out something that's been noted over the years. I don't believe in the Nazi boogeyman the media is selling us.
@@Yeomannn There are neo-Nazi types out there (I've met some), just as there are violent Commie types. My impression at the moment is thet Neo-Nazi stuff isn't popular enough to be a serious danger, but we do have to keep an eye on it. The recent "left wing" trashing of cities in the US is an immediate problem agree. But don't let yourself get dragged off to either extreme. That's what the most powerful corrupt players want - left vs right, black vs white, men vs women, blah blah blah.
I'm from South Australia. My ex Girlfriend knew John Bunting when she was a kid she and her brother and sister knew him as uncle John (he was the ultimate manipulator) and their family allowed John and his friends to store the 4 wheel drive vehicle on their property with the bodies in the barrels because it was said that they contained kangaroo cascaras to be used as pet food. After 3 months, the smell became too unbearable (as you can imagine) so the barrels were shifted from their Hoyleton property to the bank in Snowtown. Bunting and friends would shower at my ex girlfriends place (covered in blood) and they even cooked part of the last victims body claiming it was pork and fed it to her then father-in-law.
South Australia is definitely a very odd place..
Interesting. Funnily enough there's a scene in the film of Bunting chopping up kangaroos and throwing the mess over a pedophiles porch to terrify him.
Wow. I would like to ask for more details, but am unwilling to ask. Thank you for sharing!
tommy i find you everywhere aha
@@cloudscapemysterio Great minds think alike.
Jesus H. that is fucked up.
I saw Snowtown in the cinema in 2011. I still think about it all these years later. One of the very best Aussie films.
Yes. Wrenching, but excellent.
I agree with you on the left V right political situation. It is awful to deal with over here in America. The middle ground has slowly been rotting away. We are reaching a point of no compromise. I feel bad for anyone else that has to go through this anywhere in the world.
Similar in UK too
People are fighting on two "sides" for a reason, whether it's discernible or not.
There’s no 2 sides. There’s one goal with different methods of reaching it using various methods and groups of ppls beliefs against them. Notice that we’ve been fighting about gender and race since trump got in but they’ll always come together for a war right now it’s dems cheering for the war in ukraine and repubs cheering for the war in Israel, both claiming it’s for democracy and peace but neither side (of voters) supports the others war at this point but the politicians do and big companies do. It’s amazing to watch really.
“The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior ‘righteous indignation’ - this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.” Aldous Huxley
I watched the movie and they started being vigilantes, but then ultimately running welfare scams and I wondered if that was the whole point of these crimes and it wasn't really about punishing criminals.
Secondary gain, torture wasn't required for the financial gain.
I agree, that was an added bonus...for want of a better word. Robert Wagner and mark haydon were dismissed by the judge as ' passive manservants'. Jamie Vlassakis and his mother did participate in the murder's.
Killing their own family members doesn't sell if it's announced from the start as part of the package.
I question the killers motives as well. Becoming self proclaimed vigilantes & doing what the police wont do, to justify their actions is OK? Not only do Bunting & his cohorts, beat pedos up, they torture & kill them. Again- that's ok? Bunting moves on to more criminal activities. That's ok? So- murder, torture & participating in financial scams & other criminal activity, even to the point where Bunting would even kill innocent people is ok, makes it clear Bunting was a psychopath who had a lust for power & control, & being a savior for the people was a ruse & he knew it.
Some people are evil, but they always justify their actions like Roger says, placing thier crimes in a social justice framework.
i live in Elizabeth, South Aus (next suburb over from Salisbury where the bulk of murders took place). It's quite a bizzare place. Slightly rural, with a lot of disabled and unemployed ppl. If you spend some time here and get to know the average local, I think you'll start to understand how something like this could unfold.
Disney in association with Marvel Pictures presents...
Haha, imagine it
Superheroes having little to no emotional expressions in fights, John Bunting and others in Snowtown movie hardly having any expression in torture, that's something in common.
@Always watching People who play Call of Duty games online grit their teeth too. In fact, there are times when I got that Call of Duty gaming vibe such as this clip, note the casually relaxed voices, lack of sweat and heavy breathing, etc. ruclips.net/video/ab_XwyZsPxc/видео.html
Oh, and the disassociation of heroes who wear masks seems to be a key factor as to why the marketing posters for the newer Avengers film have the actors' faces fully shown... unlike Deadpool.
Mr October - Because the intent of the movie is to instill sympathy for the pedophiles
@@SgtMajorSkull Yes Sarge, you got it!
It was the same for me. Rarely does a film effect me like this one did. I felt like I had this weight of depression on me for days. It's one of the worst cases I've ever heard of.
I at times more enjoy the analysis than the movies itself - "Snowtown Killers" as well as "Heridatary" or "Prometheus"
Particularly hereditary. I haven't seen the Prometheus one, but I'll definitely look for it.
It's nice to see the free flow of ideas on here. That it revolves around a "film discussion" is an added bonus!
Nerd
The good kind of nerd!
This is why we can’t allow vigilantism.
When Death Wish goes metal ;) ruclips.net/video/reTL1jsUKIk/видео.html
Except Kyle Rittenhouse, then it's good.
True because Kyle was more of a local security guard
@@CynicalBastard Kyle Rittenhouse was defending himelf against people who were chasing him and attacking him with a skateboard and a gun. There’s even video footage of it you can find with a Google search.
@@esyphillis101 He was brandishing a weapon and entering a place where his brandishing said weapon was to instigate protestors. He was a vigilante who should be charged with murder.
Idk if you'll read this but I just wanted to thank you for your work on RUclips. I've been very depressed this past year because of, well you know. Your videos have really helped me out because of how calming your voice is and how in depth you go with your discussions. They are very intriguing and allow me to think about something better for awhile so I just wanted to say thank you Rob.
I hope that you are feeling better now.
@@RavenWing1972 oh yes much better. I starting running 6 days a week not long after posting this comment and that helped immensely, losing weight and all that. My job reopened in April and I've been thriving since then, I've gotten a few raises. It's night and day now compared to a year ago. Thank you for your kind words though and I hope everything goes well for you.
@@paradygmshift7826 I'm happy to hear that you are well. Happy holidays to you.
Agree. Rogers is that laid back uncle you've always wanted. I don't always agree with his analysis, but im often persuaded to look at things in a different way & it's amazing how Rob finds thes subliminal images that tell a different story than what we see on the surface. I don't know you, but I'm sorry you've had some problems. Covid has really affected my life, including my family. My girlfriend and I have had a multitude of medical issues as well. But we never give up. People like Roger are positive influences. I hope you endure, and are able to find joy in this complex life. Peace.
Other historical examples: dekulakization, the Reign of Terror, the Haitian slave revolt, Nat Turner's slave uprising, and the Guangxi Massacre
RUclips ate my comment without a justification, so this is a repost
And example of a "social" transcendental being "blurred" by a national socialist wanna-be [who sees social "justification" in merely his own kind, and not across the board, cause that would be too honest].
I learned another new thing about Rob Ager today! Hard to believe I'm your senior--you're so knowledgeable in an area that has fascinated me for decades.
This channel.
The layers! The insight! The realism!
Always eddifying, always interesting, always well produced.
Love from Detroit Michigan.
It's on RUclips, the full movie. A good quality version.
Woah seriously?
I feel for those that actually live in Snowtown. Their town will now be forever linked to this horrendous story even though the crimes were committed elsewhere.
Always appreciate these more intimate videos on the psychology of movies based on or inspired by real events, Rob. It makes me curious about your thoughts on other cases like this, this one in particular echos some sentiments heard here in America back in the 90s with the West Memphis Three case if you're familiar with it at all. Do you have any opinions on that whole Paradise Lost documentary and subsequent coverage on that case?
South Aussie here too. Old neighbours back in the 90s had to go testify about the Snowtown murders as they were friends with someone who was friends with one of the murderers and knew about some stuff around it.
It was a bit of a crazy time but I was really too young to understand but I remember being friends with that family and then they suddenly moved right after the Snowtown murder cases closed.
Your content has been so specific to my interests lately! I’m a die hard Alien fan and also a massive Australian True Crime fan. Good content.
I think a lot of students would learn more about morality from this video, Rob, than a year’s worth of education from certain activist lecturers. You’re a good influence on people, and I genuinely enjoy your film analysis videos even though I’m not a film student myself. Keep up the great work!
In a time where everything i enjoy is infected with politics to varying degrees, you rise above and let me just enjoy your videos. Thank you for the work you do, your film analyses are thought provoking and allow me to enjoy films like Alien and The Shining that much more.
The actor who played John B. was awesome.
In some countries young kids who torture homeless animals are put in register in police dossier as future recidivists, about 3% of population. Often In movies 2 dimensional bullies represented as recidivists who feel no remorse and empathy for victims. Good example of" good" bully is Nelson from Simpsons he understands that he is bully and he enjoys this role, but he also understands boundaries how much pain he can apply to victims before entering zone of torture.
You just reminded me a of a story. An old neighbor's cat went missing and he went into a near by council flat complex (council flats are basically social housing or 'the projects', as they are called in the US) to search for it. He never found his cat, but on one of the cement stairway landings he found another dead cat that had been tortured. The poor creature had been given a 'Chelsea Smile'. The thin copper wire that was used to do this had been discarded near the dead animal. The landing itself was stained from the blood. It may still well be! I also remember a story from an area close to where I grew up. One Hallow'een, a group of local kids found a cat and placed a lit 'banger' up it's backside. Jesus wept!
I'm kind of in two minds about that policy...it's an incredibly ingenious policy as we all know harming animals in early childhood is one of the major indicators of serial murders. But then the other half thinks a dossier isn't enough; instead childhood therapy is a bit kinder and may actually do some good instead of just stamping a number next to some kids name, y'know? Seems more humane and less "faceless"
@@vollsticks Priorities that some policeman had lawyer degree or degree in psychology very good skills in their work, same and with social worker, but priorities are money and higher GDP, solutions is more technology aka technocracy rule. Investment directly into humans education is worthless. Best example nurses underpaid medical stuff and often bullied but higher ranking doctors and administrators, and like bribes (same and lower rank police officers), frustration often drainage on patients by lack of care, in (nurse careless, police brutality) solution more technology, China gone Police state surveillance mode.
ruclips.net/video/wd9NQxIeAAc/видео.html&ab_channel=WilliamEberwein - The Machine that goes Bing
So yeah solution is methadone clinics, insane asylums, juvenile incarceration's houses, computer servers, dossier is enough.
@@vollsticks True. It seems a little like a scene from Brazil...a giant X beside a kid's name on a file somewhere, and then dragging out the file years later after the kid offends as if to say 'see, told you so'. What real use would that be?!
@@davidlean1060 Yes, exactly. And we know how often files get "lost" even in this digital age...a scene from Brazil indeed! I love Gilliam. You know Ian Holmes' role as Mr. Kurtzmann is an homage to Mad/Little Annie Fannie, massive influence to the underground comics scene, gave Robert Crumb his first comics job, the fondly-remembered Harvey Kurtzman? You probably know but Gilliam worked for him as a youth in New York, I think it was on Trump magazine, the Hugh Hefner-funded Mad-type comic magazine (which is rare as hell these days, it folded after, iirc three or four issues. Fantagraphics released a beautiful collection that I coudn't afford at the time which I believe is now out of print...and priced accordingly! I know people who were almost literally salivating when the book was announced in the Fanta seasonal catalogue/on the site, it's THAT MUCH of a coveted cultural artifact. Beautifully presented in a slipcase with two hardcover books, a thing of beauty to behold...sod it I'm gonna look the price up on Abe and see if there's any on E-Bay!), doing "fumetti"--comics done with photographs. Although fumetti means proper, illustrated comics in Italy--the word comes from "cloud", because of the appearance of the thought/speech bubbles....sorry for the blog post!
I unfortunately lived in Adelaide for Two years. I used to reference the city “The Hill have eyes”
Hope you pulled through okay, mate.
Please come back. We have spare barrels.
What you mean unfortunately? Been here my whole life. Been around and done things I’m not proud of but this city is the best in the world.
@@maddog9613 Oh please, You’re the backwater of Australia and hardly relevant.
Pedophilia is a mental illness & is often bred by sexual trauma, & should be treated as such. Putting these people in prison is not going to make them stop sexually assaulting children, rather, makes it worse. Pedos learn how-to be smarter & more careful. These predator require long term hospital care & treatment with counseling, & often help with a psychiatrist & medication.
In a somewhat similar vein, have you researched the Salem Witch Trials? Its fascinating how some young girls, through lies and stories, turned a normal town on its head.
#believeallwomen.
I've read the play The Crucible in my teens. This defined the term "witchhunts".
@@jocaerbannog9052 there have been several papers written on the psychology behind the Salem Witch Trials, including the old theory regarding the ifluence of ergot group think, and mass conversion disorder( I had to look the last one up, my memory was dodgy). Its fascinating stuff.
I watched the film on this recommendation and I'm glad, if that is the word (!!) that I did. The tone, the acting are all perfect. It has that Mike Leigh, Ben Wheatley realism which makes it look like someone just turned up with a camera and began filming real events. The fella playing Bunting is mesmerizing! I love how he puts on that 'smiling eyes' look when trying to encourage support from the townsfolk, but you see a different side to him during that scene in the kitchen when Barry, the cross dresser, is giving him the names of all the sex offenders he knows. The hidden contempt in Bunting's face as he asks him to pause (so he can finish writing a name) is chilling.
Stunning performance, very gifted actor in a very challenging role.
@@collativelearning I may never hear the words 'what about you, mate?' without hearing it in his voice again!
The young man who played Jamie was captivating too. I 'forgot' he was an actor at times. I genuinely caught myself feeling for the guy because of all the horror he has witnessed in his life. The casting overall was spot on. The cross dresser, the skinny guy with the beard, they all came across as real. It may well be the best movie from Oz I have seen since Mad Max 2!
This was one of the most disturbing films I've ever seen. Only watched it once with no intention of seeing it again. I will however watch your video as it is an intriguing premise.
...its like the french revolution in miniture!
Like, REALLY.
I wish everyone with their political blood up would soak in the lesson before they bring on what's likely coming... I mean, they're putting guillotines on lawns for crying out loud. They literally are.
Who would have thought, Rob, when we were back in the hopeful 90's, that the ongoing quest for universal Human Rights would come to this...
Bless you and yours, Mr Ager, stay healthy.
Great video, Rob. You have a talent for speaking and we need more people in the world with your perspective of our social situations to speak up more often. We have so many sensational people that are extremists on both sides of modern issues, neither of which are very sound of mind. When a person, like yourself, uses their platform to offer a more level headed topic of discussion... it's always a welcome contribution in my opinion.
It takes grit to put out a video like this, because the world is not very open minded recently (at least the loud mouths are not very open minded). Thanks for being you and putting your thoughts out there. Keep it up!
P.S. I still want to collaborate with you on a re-analysis of The Exorcist! lol
Cheers.
Man, I love ur videos. Please enable the subtitle.
Tries it before and didn't seem to work so well. Will have a look.
Another great video, Rob. I always look forward to your stuff. I could listen to you for hours.
WOW, I watched this because of an old recommendation list you made a while ago. I never thought I would see a vid on it though. Thanks, there was a lot a lot to talk about in that one
Snowtown paints a very different picture of Australia from what we see on Home & Away. But then I notice how everyone in Summer Bay looks like a supermodel. What happened to all the ugly people? Then I realized they're the same story. The Summer Bay police should start their investigations with Alf who doesn't look like a supermodel.
There's actually a hilarious parody on youtube where Alf is a degenerate serial killer from a guy called "doodleburger".
Even back in the 1970's, there is the movie Wake in Fright which was looked down upon in the past because of its real kangaroo shooting scenes, but it has re-emerged with appreciation in recent years.
I 1000 percent agree that abuse of children in any manner trumps racism as a global issue. Thanks for speaking up on that :)
Justin Kurzel is an amazing director. Very underrated. Loved his 2015 rendition of Macbeth with Fassbender.
He also directed Assassin’s Creed.
@@esyphillis101 Never saw it.
I haven't watched any of his other stuff. he did a brilliant job on Snowtown. As a first feature outing, he slammed it.
@@Yeomannn It got slammed a little, but it's not too bad. The apparent lack of success didn't do Fassbender much good career wise, which is a shame as he is a fantastic actor. Last I saw, he was driving cars for Porche. I think he wanted to make it to the Le Man 24 hour race.
@@davidlean1060 Yes it is a shame. I wonder why people hated it so much.
Well done rob always enjoy your viewpoint and how you don’t make stretches thumbs up great video
incredible story, I never heard of it until now
But I actually do know alot of people in my surroundings, those that are a bit more "earthly" lets call them, that would support this (kill the pedos etc). So if these people had legit feelings that the state isn't doing enough against it, I can see it being quite easy for a figure like Bunting to have easy game.
Exactly.
Great work Rob. I came looking for a study of the film so I'll look forward to that at some point. Still, always good to hear your scope on the case.
Very interesting video Rob. Even though I don't always agree with some of the take-aways your videos, I always appreciate your willingness to take on very divisive issues and keep an open mind. I find it very troubling how many of my otherwise "peace-loving" and "open-minded" friends are so willing to talk/joke about killing pedos, nazis, racists, etc... and don't get me wrong I find pedophilia and racism despicable, but I don't think it should be grounds for extrajudicial violence. I do think that a lot of people aren't honest about their (Jungian) Shadow selves and the darker aspects of their personality, instead trying to bury the violent impulses, and air these base impulses through revenge fantasies against undesirable groups or perceived "evil doers."
You ask some interesting questions at the end, and I'd like to share my ideas:
Firstly, I think you are spot on that the people engaged in this torture/murder case were not interested in social justice, but used it as a cover to act out their own perverted fantasies. I don't think a normal person, no matter how angry, can engage voluntarily even in mild torture (as far as any form of torture can be considered "mild"). In cases like this, where the torture is clearly the goal, I think one will always find extreme sexual perversion, even if their minds may cover it up through excuses like "social justice", because they subconsciously understand that their desires are unacceptable.
Secondly, one pattern I have noticed with proponents of so-called "social justice" is that projected self-hate seems to play a large role in their motivations, and this self-hate stems from their own perception that their ancestors were inferior. The giveaway here, is that the more extreme types often go digging into the history books (or simply come up with alternative history theories) in search of a source of self-esteem.
The mind speaks in riddles.
Interesting stuff! With regards to what you said towards the end about the way people give their crimes a political or social slant, there's actually a term for this: Neutralisation. "Neutralisation Theory," states that criminals do not have inherently different values or morals to non-criminals, they simply justify their actions in some way. People actually do this all the time over trivial matters. You've probably done it in the past few days. They take an action that conflicts with their values but "neutralise" it with a thought that suits their values. The classic examples of this would be things like:
"Yes I stole a loaf of bread but my family is starving," or more complex thought like:
"Yes I stole from the grocery store, but they're a huge company with insurance and they underpay their staff anyway," and can even take a more ambiguous character, like:
"Yes that man on the street is poor, but if I give him my money he'll just use it on drugs/alcohol."
This is actually a really important concept to understand, as the belief that criminals have some fundamental moral failing in problematic on a few levels. First of all, it assumes that the law necessarily reflects morality. In some cases that's true, but in many cases it's not. This will vary from place to place and time to time, but (apologies for the lazy analogy) a simple look at the laws of Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia will tell you that the law is not a good barometer for morality. Laws are often co-opted by the rich and influential to suit their own needs, and not to suit any particular values system. This leads into the next issue: that most people who are convicted of crimes come from desperate backgrounds, and tend to belong to minority groups, leading to the supposition that those minorities are valueless and amoral. In reality, they have the exact same morals as the majority, they just don't have the same means. That's even before you consider the fact that those in positions of privilege are less likely to be caught and convicted of crimes.
A lot of what you've touched on in this video pertains to Neutralisation, though it is a very extreme example.
Good summary Michael. Thanks. My only point of disagreement (sort of) is your example about giving money to the homeless, which isn't a crime. I worked with the homeless for years and, at least in the contexts I worked in, drug and alcohol addiction were virtually always the primary motive for street begging. ost of them were being fed and sheltered in the homeless hostels anyway. i'd see them helping old ladies across the street to look good socially and motivate them to give some change, then i'd see them mug another resident in the hostel. There were even rapes and booze for sexual favours going on in there. On that basis I don't give change to people who claim to be homeless any more and my colleagues wouldn't either. You could think of that as "neutralization", but then you could think of those people's behaviour in the same way ;)
Maybe that was a bad example, I just meant to illustrate that people neutralise their personal values and morals all the time in non-criminal settings and that the behaviour isn't exclusive to the underworld or anything. E.g., the average person without any particular experience or insight into homelessness would use that kind of rationalisation despite valuing charity as a virtue, since it serves them in that moment.
@M G I believe Collative is in the UK so his personal experience may well bear out there, at least in the places he worked. I think his experience was with offenders specifically, but it's been a while and I cbf reading the discussion again haha
Robert, please watch the Mexican movie "Canoa" It raises the same issues and it's a very important movie in here in Mexico.
not heard of that. Will look it up. Thanks
Yeah that really is quite sickening what they had done to their victims
After reading up on all the facts of the case I definitely think Robert Wagner was either homosexual or bisexual.
Wasn’t he abused when young?
The name being similar to Rob Ager I thought you were trolling this guy lmao.. Robert Wagner/Rob Ager, only missing two letters(WN) lol
@@SPFLDAngler lol
Noice one Mr Ager. Always enjoy your episodes. Great thought and insights as always.
It helps to avoid ‘group think’ if you don’t watch TV thereby also avoiding what passes for news. I also discount anything I am told because at least 50% will be bullcrap. Cynicism can be helpful.
It's always useful to keep up to date what's happening in the world. On social media, I'd get plenty of praises and interesting counter-arguments for contributing to debates in the comment sections of news articles. I'm currently reinforcing public awareness of the UK's ONS statistics comparing Covid and flu deaths... Groupthink!!!
Tv is a back water now when it comes to media trying to 'influence' people. Social media is where that stuff is at now. Have a read in to how Cambridge Analytica influenced elections in Jamaica for example.
It's helpful to discern "bad" groupthink from "useful" groupthink [like when people have a collective project they are working on].
@@CynicalBastard First of all, learn to drop daft modern phrases like 'group think'. Those terms come strait from corporate boardrooms where, we all know, they are used to cover bluffery! Never use that phrase again! ;)
@@davidlean1060 I prefer the term "collective intelligence".
I can understand resorting to murder. The recidivism rate for child rapists is through the roof. They just refuse to stop, and if the prison system isn't going to keep them under lock and key, then innocent victims will have to take the matter into their own hands.
I was abused and my abuser is dead. His death was natural, he lived a long life, and he got only a month in prison for his crime. I can 100% see why these people did want the pedos gone, but I can also see Bunting taking advantage of a communities outrage to provide an outlet for his own sadism. If they were just quickly killing only pedophiles, they'd probably be seen as community heros rather than villains.
'The Snowtown Murders' by Andrew McGarry and 'Killing For Pleasure' by Debi Marshall are both informative books for anyone interested in this topic, and were used as research material by Shaun Grant in writing the script for the movie. They go into some detail about Bunting's early life: his sexual abuse (he and a friend were molested by an adult friend of the family who shortly after died in a motorcycle accident before the boys could get court justice, or personal revenge), his fascination with violence, his job at a slaughterhouse where he abused animals, as Mr. Ager mentions. (There's a very strange picture, not extant online, in one of the books wherein he poses as a young man, long-haired, next to an antique car at his job working in a *car museum*... he smiles pleasantly at the cameraman and, man, it's just a surreal photo.) Bunting didn't give a damn about 'social justice' or any peaceful solutions, he was a sadistic narcissist who enjoyed transferring the same kind of pain and humiliation some other sicko had inflicted on him as a child. He engaged in cannibalism after killing his last victim; where's the 'social justice' in that?
Yeah, not being able to take revenge on the abuser, a factor of abused people who become violent to others.
I'm dubious of Bunting's claims about what he experienced at age 8. He might have made it up or massively exaggerated it to serve his narrative. His story that he couldn't get revenge on the attacker because the attacker died while riding away on a motorbike and crashing right after the attack ... that part smacks of fabrication, but it makes sense that he experienced some sort of abuse given the intensity of his hatred later in life.
@@collativelearning You might very well be right about him lying - since, although we have knowledge of the claim from James Vlassakis's testimony and not directly from Bunting, Bunting certainly made good use of the story to curry favor with Jamie, ultimately coaxing him into joining in on the torture murder of his abusive brother Troy. A sob story might have been what Bunting needed at the time.
Wow. I'd like to see that photo.
Sorry for the doublepost, but another interesting aspect to the development of Bunting as a high-functioning sadist, is that his very first murder victim, Clinton Trezise, was 1) gay, but not a pedophile, and 2) was killed without prior torture. He never knew what hit him, getting a shovel to the back of the head by Bunting in his apartment, and it's almost like Bunting was testing himself with this surprise experiment. (Robert Wagner was with him but waited outside.) Evidently he rapidly attained a deeper predilection for killing, and felt sooner or later the need of escalating the administration of pain for a properly pleasurable effect, almost like a drug; hence the gruelling horrorshows of the later murders. And yes, there was definitely a sexual component to the torturing.
I also found it interesting that Mr. Ager referred to Barry Lane as, "Quite a nasty guy" - which is funnily similar to how a woman at a dinner table in the 2011 film refers to Barry as a "Nasty character." Maybe a subconscious throughline going on there.
Yeah Clinton got off lucky with a quick death. From what I recall the next murder got straight into the brutal stuff.
I had watched this after you had mentioned it in your list of movies you hated to watch alone I believe? A very disturbing case and film but what a view it was. Thank you for that and all your other vids ❤️
Debi Marshall is a criminal journalist and author who attended all the courtcases and wrote a book about it called "killing for pleasure". It's worth reading as she got to listen to all the tapes they made of their victims and reports factually. She also wrote "lambs to the slaughter" about Australia's worst pedophile / murderer.
Yes, I read her book. Was very good.
An extreme form of mission creep...
I don't think I've ever understated anything so much before. I've hit the limit! 😂
I like the new content Rob
You're correct, Rob. There is a serial killer who later blogged about his murders and the narrative he used to justify his crimes was one filled with 'social justice themes'. The fact that he murdered children and entire families was secondary to his 'mission'. As if if were ultimately all our fault that we couldn't understand the broader issues that he had with society./s
This channel deserves more recognition
Speaking of social justice, this sort of brings a less "heroic" light to some of the things that the main characters in the Dragon Tattoo series do, it's a work of fiction, but still... Haven't watched that movie in a while, its just the first thing that came to mind concerning "sexual torture vengeance" Other films that also come to mind: Sympathy for Lady Vengeance, and Audition.
Revenge story =/= social justice. Just because someone is in a society, and they act, doesn't make it a "social act", per se.
@@CynicalBastard we yeah in a literal sense it does. Its like saying a stone is hard
Not sure if Audition necessary fits into that category.
This is why I don’t trust those “To Catch a Predator” type channels here on RUclips. Like yeah, these perverts deserve punishment, but *why are these dudes specifically doing this*
A couple of additional details I found interesting. 1) There was a moment in the movie version that shows Jamie befriending a nice charismatic boy, but John Bunting seems to see the boy as a threat to his social dominance that he kills him. 2) I'd read somewhere online regarding one of the brutal tortures that just before torturing one of their victims, John Bunting pressed his head hard against his victim. Never heard of that before, the impression I get is that he is sort of prepping his aggression up, but it may also be what he was subjected to as a victim (if that's true), like he's adopting the traits of both the victim and abuser.
Yeah there's so many interesting facets of the case once you get past the shock factor. The thing about staring his victims eye to eye up close as they're tortured is so unusual and, frankly terrifying ... even that close he had no empathy for their suffering. didn't mention in the video much, but i don't think Jamie Vlassakis was as innocent as the movie made out. The book I read said he was smiling and waving to journalists while leaving the court room - a mismatch for how sheepishly passive he is in the movie.
Collative Learning They probably portrayed Jamie as more innocent and passive to play up the theme of John abusing him in much the same way his brother did.
Bunting liked to get into their faces and stare into their eyes to see and feel the exact second he'd killed them after reviving them over and over. No complicated or wild "psychology" from his past involved. He was waiting to see and feel their death. He loved the power.
I have read your pinned comment: duly noted. I am 62 and have worked with sexual predators, murderers etc as a forensic psychiatrist for the decades. What I am hearing in this horrific, if well told narrative is something like the development of a serial killing cult (sexual homicide with torture - think Manson family) that DISTORTS social justice principles to deflect from the in-group's wrong doing i.e. the cruelty - definitely NOT a principle of social justice. In my opinion, you present clear evidence that sadism / anger was always part of the torture / killings - social justice was never the motive but the cover which is why we end up killing yuppies. It's all about excitement - we all want to be important and powerful and calling children's protective services or the police makes us feel small and powerless especially because these groups - often constrained by annoying things like "evidence" ....FAR easier to follow the leader join the cult and indulge and enact one's worst phantasies.....until the spell breaks. Thank you. G
I haven’t met anyone that doesn’t use their beliefs as evidence. People confuse belief for knowledge.
Ideally an individual should use logic and their intuition, to navigate and filter through thought processes.Ultilizing both sides of the brain, is key to understanding and comprehension.
@@antares5561 i agree. But people tend to put the own morals as higher than everyone else's.
I would call it more vigilante justice than social justice.
What's the difference?
I wouldn't call it justice at all.
Agree with both responses.
Social justice types are pro pedophilia and sexual degeneracy.
hoodakey is that why we see Trump so buddy, buddy with Epstein? What’s his excuse?
If you are doing Australian crime, you should look at the Phillip Island murders.
Very interesting case.
His name was James Vlassakis.
I find a lot of anti-sjw types online to be reactionaries who re-purpose SJW talking points for their own agenda. THIS however was a very thoughtful take. You took a film that I like and made me look at it from a completely different angle.
Your best video.
To be fair. Sjw do it to non sjws as well.
I’ve always been annoyed that inmates kill rapists and pedophiles in prison. Like they’re so righteous and just . Robbery , that’s fine . Serial killer , you’re good! Spree killer ? Still good . And every other crime is A -ok .
Not sympathizing with any offenders of course . But when bad people wanna play the good guy , fk off !
You raised very important questions in this time of "deshumanization"...
Great video. I’d enjoy more videos like this. Talking about real world events, not just movie reviews
I watched the film - it is excellent and waaaay better than the “video nasty” status some sites label it. Very good exploration of underclass and masculinity - and very telling that it was not lauded while inferior Aussiefilms like AnimalKingdon gained awards.
I know you don't want to talk about politics and I would argue that I am being more evenhanded in this post. People can be affected by social justice crusaders and vindictive justice. Most moral panics start with some kernel of truth and then go down this road where the scope of it creeps slowly wider. Frankly this is what's happening with the Left NOW. However let's not kid ourselves it's happened plenty of times on the right in the past. Certainly if it happens on the right I will oppose it every step of the way.
The progression you've described is what we experienced with the modern left Rob we all know this. This sort of behavior needs to be stopped regardless of where it comes from. Left, Right, Center, doesn't matter this moral panic and anger is always malignant.
Iove you videos rob i own a few of your dvds. Your film analysis is better than any ive ever encountered. I also watch of true Crime this felt like abit of a dream crossover. The end segment i found most interesting the gory details doesnt do it for me but learning about killers background is fascinating. I would watch a video you made on the mist mundane subject but any analysis on killers lifestyle and mindset or even a film analysis or a movie versus real life i would love
Cheers. I have some vids on Silence of the Lambs that go into the same subjects. A couple are on this channel a couple more are paywall items on my site :)
@@collativelearning thanks for the suggestion I will check them out tonight. I should purchase some more of you work its been a while. Im a long time fan i remember when you first starting selling your dvds I bought kubrick decoded and a couple of others. Keep up the good work 👏. I really enjoyed the part in this where you talked about mass media and repetition, have you seen nigel farages interview with douglas Murray if you havnt seen it i Highly recommend it
Holy crap I can't believe The Guardian reported the Kris Donald murder. Someone must have been asleep in the editors room that day...
I noticed The Guardian was occasionally more lenient with presenting un-PC and anti-EU elements back before the 2010's. Must've been a different editor.
I think back then The Guardian was a bit less selective.
@@jocaerbannog9052 Yeah I was just thinking that editorial decisions from that era may well have been massively different than what sort of lunacy appears to occur there now
@@collativelearning Just reading about the Suzanne Capper murder here (i'd never heard about it before). For Christs sake what is wrong with people...
@@arklowrockz That one was truly tragic. It's not well known though because it happened at the same time as the James Bulger murder which exploded in the news media, another tragic case, but Suzanne Capper was tortured daily for more than a week from what I recall. all apparently because they were angry with her for supposedly stealing a coat !!! Where's the f***ing guillotine!
Ager certainly earned his place sitting in at a Mensa meeting; his brilliant mind can conjure up original meaning to the most well established of concepts with no hesitation.
I remember vividly watching Snowtown Murders and was absolutely shocked at the realism and intensity of certain scenes. Also shocked to learn that it was a true story.
Personally, I think that movie (and all the other fd up videos I've ever seen) have given me extremely violent dreams for years. For that reason, I don't watch shit like that anymore. As I get older, the importance of having a good nights rest becomes most important. Additionally, I definitely would not allow a child to watch this film, ever. Though, this brings up an interesting point about violence in media and where one draws their line. Obviously, for me, it was here.
On the other hand, it's fun to watch scary movies and feel the exhilaration of being frightened, but it's a whole OTHER thing to be depressed because you have vivid images of brutal, inhumane acts on constant replay stuck in your head. It's absolutely horrible. When I was growing up, I thought gorey violence was cool to watch, but never once thought of it as psychologically damaging. Personally, I think it can be when, take for instance, certain scenarios. Soldiers who have been to combat and witnessed grotesque acts of violence, or inmate prisoners who see people get beaten to death. Being in person is different, yes, but watching on film violence still comes across loud and clear. My point is that there comes a point where the observer cannot stop thinking about what just happened (which is what happened to me when I watched a lot of gorey content). Thankfully though, things eventually improved after some time when I stopped watching this kind of content.
Being that I like to live a peaceful life now and want to see the good in mankind, I'm more aware of this. As a result, I'm happier and feel mentally healthier also. However, this is just my experience and certainly I would say there exist qualifiers that I just can't fully explain. For example, I've never thought twice to think of videogame violence as damaging as realistic gorey movies. I know that violence is violence, but it's hard to explain. Videogame violence simply does not effect me in the same way as cinematic violence. Perhaps, because cinematic violence has always seemed more 'real.' One could also argue that videogames also feature cinematic gore.
ROBERT WAGNER DIDN'T HE KILL NATALIE WOOD OR IS THE JURY STILL OUT ON THAT ONE ? ? ?🤔😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Concise. Intelligent. This is a very good video mate. Well done. 🖖😎
16:10 A maze rarely resembles a maze when you are inside of it or even at the entrance.
The Charles Manson type of psychopathic murderer. Recruit a sect and turn them into monsters.
The really sad part is that the people who need to hear this message about the social justice trap or cover are completely unreceptive to it. Lost a good friend of mine to it, actually. She was just the kindest, sweetest, most nonjudgemental person you ever met, and now she's angry, hate-filled, and prejudiced - convinced that she's the poor oppressed victim because of her sex and orientation. I saw it happening, and tried to warn her away from it, tried to speak logic to her, but in the end that just made me a "fascist sympathizer" in her mind. It honestly does feel like I lost her to a cult.
When you say abuse of children is the biggest issue in the world, do you mean sexual abuse of children only or any form of abuse, like parents abusing their power in education etc.?
Physical abuse of children. It's an elephant in the room. It's happening all over but rarely talked about.
Physical (violent or sexual) and psychological abuse. Each can be as damaging as the other.
@Marlo Crane That's not what i was talking about specifically. There are millions upon millions of kids domestically abused by their own parents, siblings and other family members ... plus the organised pedo stuff you mention. I consider them part of the same problem.
@@collativelearning Thanks.
There is a degree of wilful blindness to the abuse that's going on. Look at Joe Biden for example. What he does is pretty blatant, out in public and on camera. Just imagine what he does in private. And half the country is going to vote for him.
Checking JB's background before interviewing him might be better. Then you could let him talk and reveal himself, and have an idea whether he were being truthful, or justifying himself, or full of BS, or any combination of the above, before he had a chance to arouse your sympathy. John Douglas prepared well for his interviews with serial killers, and even he had doubts sometimes because these guys have as lot of time to adjust their memories. That said, I love the idea of sending someone to interview him!
Oh yeah, Dean Corll. Very nasty guy. Dean Corll knew he was gay, but he was closeted. A lot to say about him, he was very neurotic and a pretty complex guy if you look into the case.
Another great program to watch “ Crime investigation Australia “ In one episode they showcase the snowtown bodies in the barrels murders ... Interesting watch .
I saw dangers of social justice obsession and having been involved with activism and a protest turned riot, I thought this was right down my alley.
mob mentality is scary. you can feel powerful and righteous just with a small group of people
@@sygos indeed. It's been happening in America with extreme leftist groups and the media has their back.
@@EverSinceMyExorcism You spelled Republicans wrong.
@@gregm8871 please tell me more of the 130+ days of Republican riots.
@@maeton-gaming oh no that one police supporting teenager killed 2 convicted felons beating him over the head with skateboards and drop kicking him in the street and pulling guns out to murder him... million dollar bond. murder charges. other riots? 2 bIack teens murdered in chaz in portland? police charge no one.
I live in an adjacent state to SA. Let me just say that Adelaide ( the city of churches!) is a very strange place. Rumours about a paedohilia network have bedevilled the city for decades. There are some very gruesome murders of young men that occurred there. Snowtown was simply awful- I still cannot watch the film because of the torture element and victims, who lived on the fringes - the ‘ missing ’ missing.
Much better historical parallel would be the Salem Witch Trials of 1692. A group of young girls are mysteriously afflicted by a strange maledy and madness that science cannot explain. Soon the culprit is found the Devil and his wicked agents amongst the townspeople of Salem are raping, torturing, and manipulating these sweet innocent young girls. Then an orgy of terror, torture, and murder is unleashed upon the village. Neighbor accuses neighbor, family turns on family, and both weak and strong attacking each other. The madness only ends when the accusations become so outlandish that certain members of the Massachusettes colonial govt are soon being accused of being league with the Devil. It is only then cooler heads step in to stop the craziness, but only at the cost of several innocent lives and a lifetime of mental scars.
While in some cases the justification is "social justice," I feel it more about a term Americans use called vigilante justice. In other words, rule of law, innocent before proven guilty, and the rights of the accused are completely disregarded in favor or vengeance and terror. That we can only have a peaceful and just society if we employ these simple methods which is great if you are on the right side of the law but not so great when you find yourself accused of whatever trumped up crime. This thinking appeals to and is related two arrogant human conceits still with us even today that we are rational, logical thinkers not prone to misjudgement or bias and that we will never be falsely accused and convicted of a crime due to pettiness, jealousy, or as you point out sadistic rage by other people.
I would say one other thing that greatly helps in combating this tunnel vision and vigilante mentality is having experienced such vigilantism and injustice first hand. Being me tooed, smeared by jealous or petty people, or being treated like a pariah based only idle gossip and suspicion.....when you have experienced such injustice I can tell you from experience it is VERY HARD to condemn or participate in such activities. You are far more likely to oppose such actions and protect the person being slandered or harmed by this group think behavior.
Lots of food for thought in this video that I have come expect from all your work. Top marks sir. 😎
I think this is a good analysis of elements of human nature. I also agree that such actions have to be constrained within certain limits. "left" and "right" is a false paradigm and Rob Ager doesn't engage in that false-paradigm. I will say however that it's hard to have sympathy for pedophiles. This is by far not the only example of people doing these types of things to pedophiles. In Latin America people will often kill pedophiles in this sort of way. Mere accusations can be a problem but if the acts of pedophilia can be evidenced to a certain reasonable measure... Then have at them and have no mercy I say.
A false paradigm of political action? right,...right...say, why have any discretion about laws, at all? who cares? it's a "false paradigm".
@@CynicalBastard wtf are you even saying. If I catch someone raping my child or I have ample evidence of this, I'm not going to be worried about "the law"
Liked and saved, bravo
rob, have you read HEREDITARY screenplay there's lots of intresting stuff that aster left out for some reason. Also how are you SELF EMPLOYED? i mean how do you make your living? .I am quite intrested in that. Also Also Also can you name the books behind you?
Yes i've read the Hereditary screenplay, lots of it is covered in my longer paywall vid on the film. Self-employed by selling offline vids.
The books behind Rob... the right middle one is definitely a production history book of the classic TV show The Prisoner, below that seems to be a book on Rene Magritte, I recognise the book spine of top left as Rosemary's Baby novel. Can't really tell what the other books actually are.
This was a very considered and insightful talk - thumbs up!
I just started watching this today, and although I know you were avoiding the annoying left/right back-n-forth with how this was discussed afterwards, it seems the US doesn't want that, @Collative Learning
😂😭
Thanks Rob!
Totally agree with you about the death penalty - totally!
This is an instance of evil begets evil.
Keep up the good work dude.
I'm just glad you didn't drag Batman into this debate. He has enough to be gettin' on with.
Ah The Dark Nugget ... forgot about him
@@collativelearning He has no superpowers, so he wouldn't have been any help here.
What does Batman have to do with anything.
@@Thespeedrap It's a joke.
@@ryancalhoun2910 Ok he does suffer from trauma losing his parents but he he's rich he can do anything he want lucky guy😊
You make it sound like Adelaide is a horrible place.
It's pretty safe.
It probably is, but there's been a fair amount of serial murder there. The small town where these murders happened was awful, but apparently it's not actually in adelaide.
@@collativelearning It's about 2 hrs from the city.
There is a lot of dark spots & isolated roads out there.
I agree it was awful.
Keep making great videos Rob.
It's as if people who are complete zealots are unstable and tend to delve into psychotic, evil behavior because they're convinced they're the only good person/people in the world, and everybody else has it coming!
....But no, we need to break this down to one political side or the other, right youtube comments section? Not like this is an instructive moral lesson everybody should learn from and strive to better themselves and temper their own egocentric moral compass.
That might involve self-reflection!