Gaijin is Removing the Best Air RB Feature | Kurnass 2000 War Thunder
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- The spotting system is terrible, but this let us cope with it... Or it did. Gaijin is doing their very best to make air RB less and less fun. Hopefully they realize this was actually a good feature...
Also sorry for my Hebrew pronunciation for my Israeli viewers
00:00 Intro
00:20 Being Removed
03:58 Kurnass 2000
05:25 Flight Model and Fuel
06:40 Python Flare Resistance
07:20 No AMRAAM
Outro Music: • Fights On - Summer Ski...
Discord link: / discord 
Игры
i know unrelated to the topic but watching python go from top missile to a 1 or 2 flare is kind of funny
It still ignores small flares, but big ones are just a YEET
pythons were the most overrated missile
@@GeneralLee2000 Using it on the J-8F was just absolute pain. 6 PL-8, but god forbid someone drop a flare. Still prefer them to the AIM-9L, but I would take the PL-5C that the JH-7A gets over them any day of the week and Sunday. It's a shame (Though, China has improved versions of the PL-8 with IRCCM that are coming soon).
Yeah it got powercrept by older missiles like the Magic 2 lol.
just wait for the PL8B, its a Chinese Python3 with R73E seekerhead.
gaijin really went "Hey there's a way people found to deal with an issue they dont like. Let's remove it."
I wish gaijin would add AI AWACS and destructible radar site to spot for us instead
F14s would have their time to shine lol
AGM-88 HARM when
woah! hold up thats some DCS stuff we don't do fun here in warthunder only grind... but seriously why again hasn't such and easy change for air RB or other modes for ground RB is baffling at this point.
awacs would be cool except if they use missile data link, its going to make the f14 early days look like nothing
That would be an amazing addition to top tier. Imagine seeing planes carrying HARM to kill down enemy ground radars. Or trying to prioritize AWACS because otherwise, they're fully visible on everyone's radar
Kek, Lee did the ultimate mistake. Tried to use '>' in game and was greeted with a ']'.
Hate that so much
The Israeli F-4E Phantom II, also known as Kurnass, underwent many changes. The Kurnass 2000 a modernized version of the F-4E, was equipped with the Norden APG-76 Synthetic Aperture radar. However, there’s no specific mention of the Kurnass carrying radar-guided missiles like the AMRAAM in any of the sources I ever looked threw. Maybe people were thinking of the F-15 or the F-16 they carry the AIM-120. So the Baz, Netz and Barak II would be the only ones in that tree that would maybe get the Aim-120.
Yeah it never got any kind of radar missile. The Israeli F-16D also can't get AMRAAM, neither can the Netz
Any time baby girl 😘 but you can learn that from any source Wikipedia, theaviationist or even flyingmag might be more like your style just take time and read you will learn.😉 @@1bhbjk
@@GeneralLee2000 ; Our Israeli F-16D Block 40 also shouldn't have Sparrow, doesn't mean Gaijin won't make Franken jets.
Sorry should have said the Netz "F-16A block 10 Fighting Falcon" got retro fitted to carry the Aim-120 to make it a lot easier later on if needed. Thought enough was typed already and a F-16D like 3 decades ago shot down a Iraqi Mig-25 Foxbat with a Aim-120 it was the first kill with a AMRAAM. @@GeneralLee2000
@@farmcat9873 yeah, that wasn't an Israeli one. They didn't buy the AMRAAM stuff for theirs. Also, what's your source for Netz AMRAAM?
ARB is in such an aweful state. It needs a rework or a new gamemode.
remember the 7v7 matches from 5.7? that but for top tier including EC maps and boom fixed
My biggest gripe with the spotting system is the actual silhouette of the plane won’t even show up. FFS I can see and hear a Cessna 172 well enough to know what it is, at a few miles, but in wt half the time I’m seeing bullets flying straight out of the void directly in front of me. If they don’t want targets to be identified at long ranges, I can get by if there is at LEAST a rendered object there
Hi Lee I think I know where the “the kurnass 2k got amraams from” I think people are getting it confused with the Turkish F4 Terminator which I do belief can fire aim120s
Very possible
AIM-120 isn't part of F-4E Terminator 2020 ....
You need different wells for AIM-120 which only DEU F-4F ICE/KWS and GRC F-4E AUP have, the latter using tech from the former.
@@FirstDagger ahhh, the Greek phantoms are what I was thinking of
Well lee, if you like the phantom, Heatblur is putting in the F-4E into DCS and it looks so good (with an improved Jester!)
One nice change would be a UI visual representation of whether you’re in 1st stage after burn or 2nd stage after burn.
Some planes I can’t tell because the drain is so similar and I don’t have 2 whole minutes to gauge that in a live match.
On most planes the easiest way to tell is by engine noise. In full burner the engine ramps up a bit more, but in stage 1 the burner is on but the engine doesn't ramp up more.
But yes, I want Burner stage in the UI
Fun fact: they actually have at least 4 stages (supposedly 5 but I can only get 4). But yea fully agree, it’s very hard to tell which
Honestly, I don't understand why they haven't implemmented a basic AWACS system to top tier, considering all of 12.7 and some of 12.3 have datalink. It would solve the spotting problem, and would make matches more tactical because you can actually see when the entire team lemmings to the left side of the map.
Yeah I know what you mean, I was flying my Mirage 2000D to get its spade bonuses for the 4000. Plus its a Mirage 2000 so whats not to like. Mig23ML pops up behind me a km, without any mountains or anything, missile hits me... Thats just stupid
Sounds bout right I flying the f4s notch a mig 23 lock and about to fire and a f15 guns me from the back no rader ping, no silhouettes dude just popped up and it was on sinai with no clouds so I should of seen something before chasing the mig
Gaijin could make that all targets seen by your radar will get spotted.
No.
Absolutely not
Yeah then it entirely depends on the plane you’re flying, and shit like the Kfir C.7 doesn’t even get a actual radar, not one you can spot things on
Only for aircraft that have data links.
No, that's absurd.
I play this game since 2013 I play meta with >3 KDR and I dont see whats so great on this feature, what are you all smoking? All you can achieve with this is to bring attention to the spotted guy at the start of battles but thats it.. you all know you still have radars do you?
Have you tried playing top tier? Position is everything if you don’t want a missile in your ass.
its just amazing how instead of using it to create new spoting system and give new life to planes like A-6E and just add passive assists from spotting in Air RB (same like in ground rb and light tanks) they just straight up remove that feature. They became so greedy that they dont even want to make the game better, just spam 6 updates per year with 5 new premium packs in each of them, horrible company. Anyway see yall next sale in May.
Israeli mechanic: those pythons are just for self defense y'know...
Pilot: so how many you intalled? Two?
Mechanic: no, i got for you two 500lb bombs for your mission and 6 pythons, including the two on the sparrow bay, y'know... self defense...
If I'm willing to take the flight performance hit when taking a targeting pod, I should be rewarded by aiding my team with better spotting. Simple as.
i feel like having bad spotting at top tear is good because it forces you to actually look through your radar, but at tiers where radars are ineffective or not implemented at all its necessary to have good spotting
If we had a lower player count sure. But this isn't "realistic battles" this is Ace Combat Wannabe, and your head is on a swivel at all times. You can't spend time scanning. Especially when radars screw up so phenomenally in WT. I have spotted people firing at me before the game recognizes it and it's awful. Even in ground people derender because of crew skill and server-side BS. This needs to change
Radar is usless for spotting. By the time you spot someone, it is too late, and you most likely already see them visually, even if they are outside of spotting distance yet.
My issue with the Kurnass 2000 (and it makes I love & hate it situation) is, that it has the best radar (and other weapons) out of all F-4s, but it looses the "Sparrows" ; or any radar guided AAMs completely! So my quest continues, looking for the ultimate Phantom II !
Beta realistic players wanting all the information fed to them vs the Chad sim players relying on their radars
i think if an enemy is below and behind you, automatic spotting shouldn't be able to see them. this is a blind spot for pretty much all aircraft, and this rewards good positioning.
In regards to high tier CAS it’s it part of the mechanics that any TV guided weapon maverick/GBU8/and Walleyes cannot lock in night battles? And I can clearly see the target in the weapon camera. I tested IR mavericks on my late a10 and they locked fine but. Even with my A7k with the flir pod and couldn’t get a lock assuming the camera can’t see what the flir pod sees.
They use contrast to lock targets, so at night it's too dark for anything to contrast against anything. The agm65d is IR guided and targets heat
I wanted to love the Kurnass 2K. Especially when it first dropped with just 9L's and 7F's. But once they took away it's Sparrow's they took away my reason to grind Israel
Nah it still gets me 4 kills every round
@@williewilson2250 I mean that's nice pal. I didn't say it was bad; just that after Gaijin took away the Sparrow's I no longer feel like spending all that time and SL to get it.
@@MIASpartan408 it's worth it
AIM 7S don't work right currently anyway. IRs are way to go.
@@williewilson2250 to me it's not. I don't need to be 11.3 just so I can be an F4E with all-aspects when I already have fully spaded 11.0 F4E with ace crew.
Back when Kurnass 2K first dropped Sparrow's worked well and it was a plane I wanted, at this point there's no reason for me to grind Israel for when the 1 cool plane no longer does what I want
Time to go to space again without being spotted
I’ve noticed that I can’t spot people in front of me unless there like 5 plane lengths from my canopy. I think it’s because they’re trying to make you use radar more at top tier.
Doesn’t fucking matter when the radar doesn’t work either
No, it's because this game is inconsistent. Gaijin rarely comes up with ideas that work as intended. Your radar isn't supposed to be what you use to spot someone under ~4km away, yet in-game that feature SHOULD exist, however it doesn't work all the time.
the super phantom was built and test were preformed on it, i think two flights at least were completed but never progressed further i believe, so it could technically be added to war thunder.
I NEED
hot take. completely remove the spotting system :p
Israel modified this phantom to make it a ground attack aircraft, according to some Israeli documents on the Kurnass 2000 modernization program it has the ability to carry radar missiles, but it was decided that it was better to use the radar missile pods to store more countermeasures
I believe a helping feature for this would be the same as if you had rockets or bombs. It acts as if your going for a cas run and the mid map AA will target you.
It’s not a good feature tho so I can definitely see why they would remove it. Does the spotting system need fixed? Absolutely, is the pod spotting the answer, definitely not. Imagine nobody on the other team doesn’t have a spotting pod and can’t abuse that feature, seems pretty unfair.
Personally I think the spotting system should be removed entirely from arb. It would add an element of stealth to gameplay, it would make the radar more useful especially for props and ho have radar, not to mention that having a red marker around any enemy within 6mi of you is not realistic. Imagine having markers in grb and being shot by a guy who otherwise wouldn’t have seen you with their own eyes if they didn’t have the game telling you exactly where you are
I still think they should have just slightly tuned the cone of spotting and only removed it from targeting pods, keeping the feature for anything like the k2k or f14b just to give some sort of use outside of sim
I promise you the 9L and Python 3 dont have the same flare resistance all im gonna say is main something with 9L’s for like an hour or two and youll see
While this exists…. Maverick works too if you don’t have tgp. I’ve been carrying 2 mavs on the f5e for spotting and memes.
Btw would love to see an ej-kai vid, that plane is my baby
Targeting pods target, why would they not show you what is 20km and in high fidelity? It's simply an illogical bug fix
Lol, you'll hear there engine behind you long before there spotted. Kinda insane how the spotting system has gotten worse, somehow it was decent even in 2012 XD
i dont really think it should be like 20km but i havent ever played top tier and well maybe its a good change but for props and early jets i think maybe just behind should be spotted more easily
As far as top tier goes, I don't think advanced spotting with pods is the way to go. I think it should be more radar focused rewarding players with using the actual feature for finding the enemy. A sort of data link light where one f14 up high can help all other aircraft see the direction of enemy players.
I fully agree with the spotting system, it can get so annoying especially when you take your tame to make sure no one is flanking just to get missiled from a guy 1 km behind you.
Air RB is now so boring ive switched to air SB bcz it acually feels rewarding and diferent
I think the effect of scouting benefiting the team is highly desirable. The fact that it's tied to a targeting pod isn't imo. Way too gamey and "forbidden knowledge" feeling.
You’re making me want to play the f4 again. I usually prefer mig 23 or mirage play style. But yeah low fuel for the win cause honesty how often are you returning to base?
Go for it!
Bring a drop tank too and drop it when there's around 4 mins left in it
I think the much much more important issue is that ground vehicles do not render u til they’re like 5km away or less. That is completely inexcusable when systems like the pantsir are literally launching missiles at you off the runway from their spawn.
This shit needs to change. I couldn’t care less about the spotting system in rb. At least your targets render..
Personally, I wouldn’t want it to get AMRAAM even if it could, _because_ that means it wiuld have to go up in br and an F4E wouldn’t do well at top tier, as we’ve already discovered. I’m fine with it where it is
Very true
2:07 Ok, kinda beside the point but, what is this..... Im quite sure my guy has his burner on and it still goes for the flare....
As an air ab player they HATE yall (air rb players) fr
I do think this feature is nice to have, but its really unfair for people who dont get the targeting pods. Someone wih it can make an informed decision log befkre the other guy even sees him. This feature while nice is really just a band-aid for the awful spotting mechanics. maybe gaijins efforts should be on fixing the spotting system first and deal with the feature that people have been complaining about FOR YEARS
3:25 why tf did they take realistic nation matchups out. As a US main, it's absolute trash, it's either US vs Everyone. Or it's US vs everyone else and other US. It makes no sense
To encourage teamwork in air rb they need a base along with the usual four, which has so many hit points that everybody on the team would need to make multiple bombing runs to destroy it. The other four bases would pop as per usual but that 5th one.... anywa😮 its a teamwork idea
It is really strange how part of the community doesn't have a clue what used AMRAAM is putting trash out like you mentioned.
i mean spotting ennemies shouldnt be in the game at all it should be like in ground battle for aircrafts. x)
Gaijin saw players were fixing a HUGE problem with the game and could not allow it.
I get the annoyance with the spotting system but this genuinely does feel more like an exploit than anything. And I don't buy the teamplay argument because all you're doing is pointing your targeting pod in the rough direction of the enemy team, there is like nothing there.
I would rather them remove this and then properly address spotting, rather than just leaving both as is
i was testing the flare resistance of both the aim9l and python 3 with my friend and there was a considerable difference in between the flare resistance of the 9l and python. the aim9l as it stands actually has better flare resistance.
No... you can simply look at the stats. The Python 3 and AIM-9L have identical rangeband (sensitivity to different heat sources) values and the exact same FOV. They have the same flare resistance.
@@GeneralLee2000 idk what to say... We tested it pretty extensively and the 9l won every time when it came to flare resistance... 🤷
The TGP spotting is good.
honestly... I would perfer if top tier did away with general spotting completely and move to what ground RB uses. We have radars for a reason. Make people actually use them.
Isn’t that what radar is for? Isn’t that one of the main reason radar exists, to find the position of enemies?
Lmao just try to use the radar in the F4E 😂 you could be looking at someone coming head on to you from 10 miles/ 20 km away and your radar won’t pick it up until like 3 miles/ 6 km 😂 that’s if you’re at altitude, good luck trying to lock anything below 4,000 ft 😂
@@jaigermeille3482 dam, I haven’t gotten to it yet but that’s gonna suck balls.
@@jaigermeille3482; Kurnass 2000 and F-4EJ Kai have Pulse-Doppler radars, not all F-4E's are created equal.
Tomcat Bravo has this camera too :)
Yup! I said that :)
wait wait the kurnass 2k has CM pods now? AND it no longer sees top tier! Snail be praised ... for once :O
Yes!
I think they ahould take spotting out entirely let me use my instruments and my mk1 caveman eyeballs to play. I dont need a huge fucking name tag to tell me whos a bad guy because im not a smooth brain Neanderthal.
use the radar to see the targets
They should just implement as a dedicated role. Think AWACS.
the spotting of enemys should be removed completly unless they are activ spots like spotting a tank in tank RB.
I got tk’d by a F16 because it was the one game where USA and RUS were on the same team
Massive F
There should be no "spotting" in air RB; same as ground RB.
Nah. They should get rid of targeting all together. Get some use out if those radars
I'd honestly rather they remove enemy nametags entirely.
gaijin probably removed it to balance it with irst instead of fixing irst , irst is heavily underperforming in game there r bug reports that are acknowledged but with the recent change it would make targeting pods insanely op over irst , so they probably made a quick easy fix instead of actually solving the problem , to make it more balanced.
Irst can locks targets
@@williewilson2250 its literally capped to 30km max. irl it was much much better.
@@hemendraravi4787 and this feature/bug was capped at 20-21km
@@williewilson2250 irst on su27 completely ignores flares once you lock the target in real life but in game it loves flares just like r60ms. dont even compare targeting pod to irst , its miles better , irst works half the time , its so bad in game.
@@hemendraravi4787 where does it say it ignores flares irl?
If this way of spotting is the best feature of top tier you probably have some other issues💀
Honestly, I’m fine with the spotting being hard. You should be using the radar for you know… beyond visual range… cause you shouldn’t be able to see other planes not even in your viewing direction 20km away.
vid is too long, what is being removed
I dunno its unfair that only someone planes get it if all planes had it that would be great but because it isn't it a bit unfair
Russia and Japan are the only nations at rank 8 that don't have 1 jet with a pod, and really only 1 is needed per team for the benefit of the whole team
@@Metagross555 it would make nato jets a lot more op considering how bad the irst is underperforming in game
hiiiii squidwaaardd
@@autumnrah 😭
If all planes had it I would understand but it feels like cheats
Remind them the F-14 carried the TARPs pod for visually identifying enemies up to forty miles away. Enemy aircraft not enemy tanks. You got teamkilled because you're playing Israel.
Wassup lee?
Yo, wassup!
Situational awareness is one of the major air combat parts and these markers remove this part is almost completely. These markers should be removed not just from spotting by targeting pods but completely from RB. It should be arcade-only feature. Especially with more and more advanced radars we are going to get.
Built in camera? like on SMT? that you can't access unless you get tv guided weapons? XD
Do you... not see me using it in the video without guided weapons?
@@GeneralLee2000 israel bias then... lol
@@goliath3413; An American system which Gaijin just like LGBs just didn't give the US F-4E.
While it is a good meme and pretty fun, its still very unfair that all nations cant do it so im in favour of them taking it away - especially in its current iteration since it basically just spots everything infront of u instantly even if its way outside the current fov of the camera so its pretty unrealistic in that regard. I would rather they start working on some more realistic mechanics such as AI spotting aircraft(lower br's with multiple on the frontline) & AWAC's(high tier jets in the rear behind AF's) which spot the enemy team while they are alive. Would solve the issue in a more engaging way and make an actually meaningful objective for air rb to kill. For sim AWAC's could function as irl interfacing with your radar & lower br's can place marks on map.
Your argument doesnt work that well, the only nations WITHOUT a targeting pod at rank 8 are Russia (lol bias bug fix maybe?) and Japan (Japan CAS sucks in general). At top tier air RB nations are mixed damn near all the time so that is another point against that argument.
@@Metagross555do they have it on a good platform though? Last I checked, only like 4 nations get a pod on good fighter aircraft
@williewilson2250 US F16 pod and F14 built in, Britain gripen, Germany tornado the weakest, Italy av8b plus, China jh7, Sweden gripen, Israel f16, France mirage 4000 and 2000 5f
@@Metagross555 that leaves about half of the nations without a good airframe to use a targeting pod on. The av8b, tornado, f16d barak (if this thing didn't have 9M's it could easily be the worst f16 in the game because of how heavy it is), literally nothing for Russia, and the jh7a to an extent are basically strike aircraft more than anything. Only the jh7a has a good flight model to work with
@@Metagross555 Japan still doesn't even have a targeting pod at all lmao
Gaijin has been getting away with too much shit, I think they want to get bomb-reviewed
Should be removed. It’s not realistic. Sounds like cheating.
War Thunder Team work? Whats that??? 😋
TRUE
❤
I love your videos
1:30 I had once unspoted enemy like 200m behind me when i was looking on him for like 15s
thats bullshit lie because passive absolute detection is like 0.75km so what you say happened is not possible
@@rekreator9481it literally has happened multiple times lol
@@DigitalShaolin it literally could never happen… please open the fucking game, open your crew window, go to pilot awareness, and read the fucking text in the popup window.. base distance for absolute identification is 380 meters, which means that even with the absolutely shittiest crew everything under 380 meters will be immediately spotted and shown on minimap.. I know how this game works, unlike you apparently
@@rekreator9481 if that happend many times, it's posible
@@DigitalShaolin take your medication next time youre gonna play and it wont happen😉
I’m gonna be honest, I’m a Japan main, this really has absolutely zero effect on me. Japan literally has no targeting pods (pain), which means, literally every single other nation has a hand above Japan.
Also, speaking about your love for phantoms, do you think you’ll like the F-4F ICE when it comes to the game? It’ll probably end up being the best phantom in the game (unless EJ Kai with AAM-3 when).
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Lee would be happy if you could say something that is more constructive than “hi”
begone bot