Are DOUBLE BLADED SWORDS Practical? Combat Test!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2023
- there has been a lot of talk over the years about the effectiveness of a double-bladed sword. I've seen a lot of tests on things like water bottles and mats, but haven't really seen much sparring done with it. so we decided to wack each other with metal sticks and find out for ourselves
Help support us on Patreon!
/ sellswordarts
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @sellswordarts
Join the Discord!
/ discord 
Развлечения
A couple people will have suggested that the weapon would be more effective with the longer handle. And I agree, but only slightly.
The problem isn't the size of the handle, the problem is the maneuverability. With no way to effectively wind, change guards, or move the sword around the body without exposing the hands and the rest of the body this is essentially a less effective spear.
We would be happy to try this experiment again with a sword that has a better handle, but we would need to raise some money to get it made.
What about the recent shadiversity video of the same topic? Any thoughts on that?
Shadiversity has a pretty good video on this subject aswell
But having a longer handle indeed permits more maneuverability.
Speaking as someone who owns who owns one and has fought with it, the handle needs to be double the length mine is 2' blade- 2' handle- 2' blade. Use wise its like using a spear with the blade aimed at the ankle style, I don't know the correct name of the form. the second blade comes into use when someone closes inside the reach of the low blade you can overhand to force a high guard and then follow up low again immediately. It's still inferior to twin blades but it is FRICKIN itimidating.
@@liendel328not really.
It still isn't going to let you get the sword from one side to the other. All it's going to do is give you a wider grip.
You still running to all the same problems.
To make this work it essentially just becomes a staff with daggers on each end. Which already exists 😂
Double spears are more practical. A double bladed sword would cause more self harm and it is not very effective in combat.
True, you can do all the same motions of a spear with two ends. But also like a quarterstaff with distanced striking. And even better the poleaxes with their counterpoints
THIS!!!
This is exactly what I was thinking when I watched Shad's video on the 'double sword'.
I think the double sword has some potential, but it's nothing that can't already be done by a spear that has a cutting/stabbing implement on each end. All of the movements with the double sword are literally the exact movements that are done with a spear or bo staff...which are both far more versatile than a double sword to begin with. Honestly, if the double sword was a truly effective weapon, it would have at some point been heavily used in history.
@@PirvateerKureiExactly, it's just a really poorly made polearm.
Double glaive, the best of two world.
The double bladed sword is not bad but spear is better
I think one of the reasons the second blade is so difficult to employ is because when you’re using it, everything you’re doing is from reverse grip which is only really good for stabbing in certain circumstances. But you can’t swing a sword like that. Plus double the weight distributed all the way from point to point seems unwieldy
use a longer hsndle wield it like a polearm
@@Inaire_Falen like how Shadiversity screwed two longswords together using a nut instead of the pommel. Yeah I do think the a mechanical advantage of having a longer lever would also increase the cutting capacity
@@nemesisnidhoggr1468 because my comment isn’t fencing based, it’s physics based. A lot of how swords work is because of physics
@@nemesisnidhoggr1468What do you do for a living? What are your hobbies? Because your argument is based on the premise that I may or may not practice HEMA or have degrees in physics, and also applicable in this case, biomechanics. Therefore you must also know nothing outside your field of expertise. Does that make more sense to you than how a lever works?
Here’s my opinion:
Double-bladed sword? Impractical.
But Double-bladed Lightsaber? Hell yeah. No need for edge alignment. Just don’t use it like Darth Maul. Use it like a spear/ Bo staff hybrid.
Edit: what I mean by that is unlike maul, don’t have both palms facing downward like your riding a bicycle. Instead, have spear-user’s stance. One palm up, one palm down.
I actually think that the grip can be even longer. I always thought like "this is just a long long quarterstaff" and it is. But the limited space to touch without loosing fingers is really making it more difficult
Maul was played by the weaponmaster for the movie. That's a standard hand position for that stance, given the weapon style he was using. He did shift his hand positions as he fought.
@@thekaxmax while I will not deny his staff skills, I believe using a more spear-like grip/ stance would work better for double-lightsabers.
I think you need a longer grip. Even Darth Maul's saber handle is twice the length of others
Check the pinned comment
but that would make his test more accurate and we cant have that
@@Inaire_Falento make this test “accurate” we need to be testing lightsabers.
use a light-glaive instead
Your comment is objectively unintelligent though.
Like you don’t need to be an expert in the saber To know simple physics, and the mechanics of a lever.
Literally everybody With any level of combat experience Would you a longer handle would provide a massive difference.
I think you would need 1/3 to be handle from overall length of the weapon to be really viable. Now your grip portion is probably 1/12.
Yeah the handle is way too small to be effective
@@atomicdestroyer8068 which is their sloppy work on the constructing of the weapon i must say it should have had the handle of both swords so double the handle size then you use it like a spear over your shoulder and you have way more reach since the handle quite bigger and if the opponent blocks you when you are using at as spear you instantly use the other end for a strike from above to the head and the opponent will not have enough momentum to parry that effectively hes gonna get hit by his own sword at worst, at best u litteraly just hit him with an axe
So just a staff with blades on the end? Those already exist.
My gaming skills tell me they probably arent
Hey it worked in knights of the old republic before ya finally get a light saber.
@@Kris-wo4pj FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT. Except I never upgraded to dual lightsaber. They looked too cool.. Also using the same blade of an Echani that died to your character is kind of awesome.
I think an issue with how you did this is that the double swords hilt too narrow.
It's a staff with 2 blades on the end, you can't really manipulate a staff effectively when your hands are touching.
Elongate the handle, spread your hands apart, and use it like a staff and it'll probably be more effective than you found here.
We thought of that, check the pinned comment
At that point just use a polearm with cutting power
@sirxarounthefrenchy7773 Well obviously, there isn't anything a double sword does that another weapon doesn't do better.
It's a what if. A hypothetical. I'm not saying "this is how you make it good." I'm saying "this would probably make it less shit."
sirxarounthefrenchy7773 "at that point use a gun"
@SellswordArts
"check the pinned comment" is there an actual test linked in the pinned?
…just add a knuckle bow, and a longer handle, throw some curves in there… BAT’LETH!
I think that it better used more like a poll arm and less like a sword. Shadiveristy did a good video at some of the practical applications
Yeah, I watched that video and the double-bladed sword was more capable than I expected from their demonstrations
I'm a little bit wary of those results given they used foam swords. From the bits I saw the swords were bending wildly.
I think it's important for us to use the closest thing to a sword when testing out swords. Foam LARP weapons lack many of the properties that a real sword has.
So between the weight, the stiffness, and also, frankly, the lack of swordsmanship experience on the part of the practitioners, I'm not sure how much I trust that test.
The did concede that it’s hard to get a real read on results given that there isn’t actually a purpose-built combat double-bladed sword (yet) and that it works for a double lightsaber where edge alignment isn’t an issue.
@@SellswordArts THIS
Honestly based, people give Shad too much credit.@@SellswordArts
As you stated, that particular setup is pseudo set up to fail, due to being not meant to be a double. A double made to be would also have more handle room.
A couple more inches of handle room wouldn't make a difference. All of the same problems would still be there. You'd be far better off with a a normal quarter staff. You wouldn't run into any of these problems, and it would be way more effective.
@@SellswordArts So true... I honestly prefer a staff for two-handed combat. More utility and diversity... at least, to me.
@SellswordArts shads 1st and 2nd test prove you wrong and the 2nd test uses steel
@@SellswordArts If you make a follow-up, it would be interesting to test a swordstaff with a knife on the end oposite to the sword blade.
@@Inaire_Falen Shads tests prove nothing
One thing, the custom version you were on about sounds remarkably simmilar to a Bat'Leth...
He needs a wider grip.
I feel like they are working with the double sword as they would with a sword, which it is not. It's much more of a center-held staff/bo.
If you want to staff, get a staff. It would be way more effective than this monstrosity.
This takes all of the bad parts of a staff and combines them with all of the bad parts of a sword, with none of the benefits
@SellswordArts if you want a sword get a gun great logic
@SellswordArts increase the handle wield it like a polearm and get gud
@@Inaire_Falen he is just a douchy guy that thinks he is right cause he is in a fencing club, he quite blatantly holds his own audience in contempt cause they are just plebs to him
@@Inaire_Falenman wtf have you understood?
I can see one thing that can be done from that position where the reverse blase is bound in the overhead position.
You could swing the entire weapon around in a backwards arc to bring the forward blade around in an upward strike. I hope I'm intelligible.
I mean, I don't think you'd survive doing it, but it's technically an option that gets the reverse blade out of the bind.
this is what shaversity did disproving sellout swords vid
To be honest, what about using a double bladed sword almost like if it was a montante? Just momentum based and since it has to edged, if well properly that might always have an edge pointing to the opponent
At a guess, because montante has more speed, more maneuverability, and more momentum. And this would allow you to wreck someone using a double bladed sword, because you also have more range with a montante. I can think of a couple of the Iberian rules of montante that would be very effective in dealing with this just off hand and I am at best an absolute beginner.
Test a polearm like this, and you'll have the same problems. How do they solve it? Well, use it differently, and, in this case, increase handled length. Just a few thoughts.
then it becomes pointless tho, you can just have polearm, excluding whole idea of 2 swords connected, you would need to change it so much that its different weapon
In the Darth Bane books they specifically call out these limitations. Just FYI
Yes, that's what I was referencing in the video
There was a point in the post fencing analysis which reminded me of the polearm evolution. They ended up having very conservative spikes though for that half-tempo/reverse grip.
I think the handle needs to be twice as long at least to make it more effective
that's just a very fancy Reverse Grip!
Ah, I'm glad someone finally mentioned lines of attack. Being able to cover two lines simultaneously is the whole reason for wielding two weapons together (one could make the argument that Sword+Shield is actually the most popular dual-wield in history).
I still think gladiators armed with these things is a good idea, especially in a fantasy setting. The bout would look impressive, especially if your Gladiators are specifically trained to use this thing and (as Lindybeige has theorized) they're actually working to put on a show, not kill each other.
Yes, the whole point of two different weapons is to be able to attack or defend in simultaneous lines.
I think this thing is more of a hindrance than aid, so it would only really find a place in some sort of entertainment-based combat.
Thanks again for the super thanks!
@@SellswordArts You're welcome 😁! If you ever get the chance, it would be nifty to watch you guys breakdown how battlefield conditions (close formations, uneven ground, potential sickness, etc...) reinforce certain principles that are discussed in the manuals (things like balanced foot-work and the importance of defending yourself at all times) but often get neglected in more controlled settings because people don't have to worry about slipping every time they step 😅
@@charleshurst1015 that would be fun to see. especially how terrain factors into swordplay
Maybe try holding it like a spear? If you hold it by the bottom blade then maybe it will help. But it will still look stupid.
And at that point, just use a spear
@@sirxarounthefrenchy7773 yup but hey its either that or throw and run
I would love to try this, I feel like with enough practice with a double bladed sword it might be pretty effective
I think that perhaps with a slightly longer handle and having one blade shorter than the other, it could be a better weapon, not necessarily good, but better.
there's also stuff I've yet to see tested like not having the blades line up or custom crossguards that might permit slightly more manoeuvrability. There's also to try having the crossguard line up with the flat of one of the blades rather than the sharp edge.
I'm not sure how they'd affect the weapon, but I think you might be able to find a better weapon in some unholy combination of those.
but you see then @sellout swords i mean sellsword would have a more accurate and better weapon
I came back after months again to regain some opinions from someone actually using swords in a competitive manner. Mind, I do larp, I often WANT to loose a cool fight.
And hell, time flew by, but this aged so so well
the only way i can see a double bladed sword work is if the back blade was a knife instead of a full length sword
14:09 this part without video is wild
For a lot of things I look to history.If it was never used anywhere ever, tho it could've been, it's probably a bad idea.
What do you think if there is a mechanism to quickly bind and unbind to switch between [dual wielding swords] and [double bladed sword]?
Here is a mechanism for this: the handle of one of the sword has a hole (with the opening at the place where the pommel usually is); the handle of the other sword has a extruded part (at the place where the pommel usually is), which fit the aforementioned hole (but the part for the hand to hold the handle would not slide into the hole). The hole doesn't need to be as deep as the corresponding handle, just need to be deep enough to transfer force. To switch to [double bladed sword], simply slide the extruded part into the hole. There doesn't have to be a locking mechanism because, in most cases, you don't need the connection to provide tensile strength (you only need that in uncommon cases like you stab into a thick shield and have to pull out quickly). To switch to [dual wielding swords] simply pull them apart, you can also do this together with stabbing with the front sword.
Regardless of whether it "can" be used, it's not practical at all since the main advantages of swords are versatility and ease of carry. A double-bladed sword that doubles the weight and less then doubles the length is just a worse polearm that is constantly threatening to slash you, and can no longer be used in the places a sword would be because of its weight and length. Asking whether a double-bladed sword is practical is a lot like asking whether akimbo pistols are practical. Could you make it work? Yeah, of course, but there's a reason that no one does, outside of spectacle shooting.
Is there any reason for why your helper is in his underwear like a servant boy?
Is it to keep him from being confident? He sounds like he's afraid to disagree with you.
His helper servant boy is wearing underwear to awaken feelings deep inside you
@@clarksimon7771 I hope the goal was pity
Hmm. If the grip surface was increased to at least two feet. With out changing the over all length of the weapon. You'd get a hell of a lot more safe and practical/effective methods of use. Though at this point it would be in the same genre of a pole arm. With all the costs penalties and benefits that come with weapons of those size categories.
When you have a sword-inspired polearm
new reply from Shad, curious what your reply is. Perheps an collab video?
You bruhs should try spinning that helicopter sword and move around and do frickin' flips while swinging those rotor blades around.
I think you should invite people who are skilled with staffs to see some interesting options with such a weapon. Also longer handle and hence shorter rear blade appear to be an interesting idea
I practice boffering combat, but used to practice Jojutsu (short staff) on a dojo. I practiced it for so long and liked it so much that I adapted a double edged spear design to make it possible to use the Jo techniques on boffering combat, because we can't hit people with the handle and pommel in our rules, for safety reasons, and making the handle cushioned would make it unwieldy (we don't use protective gear, weapons are cushioned on areas designed to hit for points).
(The following only works properly on boffering combat. If you are allowed to use the handle and pommel to hit opponents, like in HEMA, use a normal spear or staff!)
If you're really down for it, I did it like this: Try making a staff with the blades being 1:7 the total length of it, and the length being equal to your height. the effective reach will be similar to that of a montante suited for your body, and blades will be just short enough to maneuver without touching your body. I also make the blades shaped like a cross, but curved upwards, just not long like a sai, for better control over the opponent's weapons. I am 176cm tall, so my double spear has a total of 176cm, with roughly 25cm blades.
I use montante, longsword, staff, halberd and spear techniques with it, with the caveat that I can't use things that depend on a guard to be safe.
You can also make JUST the pommel cushioned and big enough, so you are allowed to use it for hits, but I prefer the simmetry of a staff.
Wouldn't you want to use this like a sharp staff?
Not this in particular but do you guys ever do mixed weapons when sparring ? Like long sword vs spear or saber and parrying dagger(my personal favorite) or any such combo of weapons. I know it tends to give a clear advantage to one side but still I think it makes for some interesting exchanges :)
Shadiversity did a video about double bladed swords and they used as more of a poleaxe which seemed to be more effective
But it doesn't have the same reach as a poll ax unless you grab the Blade of the sword. And then you might as well just get a ax
So what I'm hearing is it's a less effective poleaxe that uses far more resource to create, and less good in pretty much every aspect?
@@Scuzzlebutt142yeah, that seems to be the case. Which is probably why it never was really used
sounds like the echo chaber circle jerk needs dishoneaty to exist
The one thing sticking out to me is that, if this worked in close quarters against sidearms, then why would people even have sidearms? It's trying to turn a sword back into a spear, when the reason for having a sword is to have something for circumstances where a spear doesn't work.
"so just use a gun" the teat isnt about spears its about teating the validity of a double bladed sword sorry you missed thst part.
Request: if a sword fighting robot existed - and it’s vulnerable part didn’t need to be in torso - where would you put it?
Head? Leg? Sword arm?
Bonus: what are the chances a human survives a sword thrust through the torso?
the double bladed sword is a practical weapon, a practical joke that is. someone in the past probably made this weapon but end up dying not by enemy blades or anything but by shame, as laughter from allies and enemy manage to halt the war for a day.
the way to make ti work is to lengthen the hilt quite a bit 18" and then it is more like a double ended spear
Everyone always tries to strap two swords together instead of adding an extra blade to the butt of a short spear, it always baffles me.
so, a longsword and a poniard is the way to go. Want to be sneaky, put the knife on a lanyard.
May I suggest, double bladed swords but one end is an arming sword the other end is a dagger.
I think pop culture/fantasy weapons 'work' in-universe because most writers take inexperienced swordsmanship, and dial it up to 15.
For example, inexperienced fighters often think you're either attacking, 'or' defending, and they don't understand how an attack with good body mechanics is usually doing both at once by _covering a line._ So they don't see the problem with a weapon that _can't_ do both at once, because they didn't understand that was an option in the first place.
Inexperienced fighters tend to think about angle rather than distance. They think a 'good fighter' stays in-distance all fight and just has quirkier angles. Straight-up Wii swordfighting.
You see this tendency with Witcher and anime fans etc. too -- they imagine having superhuman speed and using it to buff inexperienced swordfighting habits, because they don't understand how actual fighters improve.
that's not a real problem here... well, yes inexperienced fighters tend to think that way... however main problem is that weapon of this sort so a polearm / staff / glaive was not intended to be used in one-on-one situation, their design was mostly for teamwork on a battlefield. Also most of western world didn't get chance to get properly into "swordstaves phase" as during the evolution of weapons we already got the black powder which significantly rendered big melee weapons useless on battlefield, take a look at China for example, their culture is older than western world lol, they went through all and as of developing black powder it was a turning point here. Sword-like weapons were basically a duelling thing, as you can already see here on the vid, this is not a real situation where you'd use a huge polearm / staff-like weapon,
Then you have the Bat'leth from Star Trek
@@tomraineofmagigor3499 I must admit I'm not Star Trek fan but judging from its shape... I don't know, probably my martial arts prowess is lacking thus I cannot decide if it is totally unusable design, WIKI states that these were designed by a martial arts enthusiast... I don't know but probably you'd treat this like a staff as well...
Though these are mostly useless on battlefield, probably palace guards would have something like this so they can scare potential threat to the ruling monarch.
P.S
I had to google it lol
@@Varim.Gaunniss Skallagrim has a video of him testing it out in a spar. It worked out pretty well for him with some errors but he admits himself most of the errors could have been from being unfamiliar with the weapon. Afterall for the Klingons instead of training with a sword from a young age they trained with a bat'leth from a young age. It's a pretty multipurpose weapon honestly
@@tomraineofmagigor3499 I didn't know that, gotta check him out then :) thanks for the tip :)
"He's a better fencer than me so he should have done better"
Well, he was fencing with something he'd never used before, so not necessarily, at all.
But still, looks clunky at first.
No, he should have done better than me in general. I'm saying the weapon held them back
1:52 I think it's worth pointing out that not being skilled with a weapon because you're used to something else doesn't necessarily make it a bad weapon.
Seems this would only be practical with a lightsaber. It removes the issues of cut strength, blade alignment, and most of the weapon weight as well.
Light sabers do have weight everything else you said was good tho.
@@santi_super_stunts2573 I said most of the weight, I imagine they’re at least a bit lighter than long swords.
@@alexw4482 Intuitively, they should function like flashlights, but apparently one of the novels explained that they're more like...rocket-powered chainsaws. The beam emitter is like a jet engine, and the energy also circles back to the handle, and that's why you have to be Force-sensitive: to prevent the firehose of energy from breaking your arm and causing you to maim yourself.
Is it a stupid, needlessly-convoluted piece of worldbuilding? Absolutely lol but it's etched in Canon apparently.
imo your comment is on-point tho
Good seeing you Clark
I know they are really impractical, but I can't help but love them
from my perspective id use them similar to a staff
A really good video! I think, from what you said, if you have a custom made double bladed sword it would probably need a bigger crossguard maybe with a knuckle bow, and a offset backside blade, maybe a shorter one with a longer handle for more options.
Or, to make it nearly perfect: make it a double bladed lightsaber with the opportunity to split it
But one question is still left for me: would it work on horseback, when you use one blade on each side?
So a short pole-arm with a butt spike is a better "double-bladed sword" than a double-bladed sword
Basically a shortish glaive.
I think if the staff was longer, it would be better.
@Shadiversity: Would love your take on this mate.
I think you should try it with a longer handle and shorter blades. You’d get more leverage. Also I saw a video of some guys holding the two blade over their shoulder and using more thrusting attacks. Seemed significantly more effective, they even sparred with them and the two blade did come out on top in some situations.
Watching you fence, two things are obvious. First, this is undeniably a worse version of the halberd. If you have that long a weapon, you don't need that much blade. The momentum from a small blade at the tip of a polearm will kill as surely as a full blade so why would you get a bigger blade?
But secondly, it's obvious you're swordfighting, and if you had to fight with this weapon, you would need to switch your stance completely and fight like you would with a polearm. Because the second blade is preventing you from just putting it in front of you, as you've mentioned, you can't just move the weapon like you would with a simple sword. You need to move your body around it, and for that you have to be sideways.
In kendo (and probably most fencing sports), you create a triangle with the tip of your blade to protect your forward hand. With a polearm, you need to create that same triangle but have the tip cover your whole body, and for that it's useful to have it in front of your hip. But of course, if you're learning to fight like this it's better to get a polearm that would be much lighter and have greater reach, to balance the sword's faster maneuverability.
The problem with using this like a pole arm is that you have it in the worst configuration. Short form isn't actually using the best part of a pole arm or any long weapon. The reach. And because the back half of this is a blade, it's super awkward to try and grip it any further back.
So essentially this is a more awkward and less useful version of a glave
@@SellswordArts Indeed, but in the scenario where you had to fight with this weapon, for some weird reason, you can't wield it like a sword. Using it like a polearm at least deals with the problem of the second blade impeding your movements.
@@Gorsh7 kind of. But also not really. Then we bring up the issue of edge alignment. So with short form staff work, we usually don't have to worry about aligning our edge, so now we've complicated short form staff work.
Like, I see where you're going with it. And yes you probably could get some use out of it, but inherently it's still going to be worse than just a stick in my opinion
@@SellswordArts yeah I don't disagree with you about how it's the worse parts of a sword and a halberd without the perks. It's just something that I noticed when I saw you sparring because I've been training atarashii naginata and teaching it a bit, and having your body sideways is something that is both necessary and very difficult for beginners, because it's not natural, unlike the basic swordfighting stance.
Yo what knees/shins are you using David? Wanting to update my kit and cannot find decent legs for the life of me lol
It really feels like, even if you manage to make a custom double-sword and take everyone's suggestions on it, its always going to stay in the realm of Awesome, but Impractical.
Sure, it might look cool, and using it more like a staff might help make it more useful. But its always going to stay in that weird grey zone and there will always be better options. The problems listed here aren't going to go away easily.
except it was done properly just not by this person here shad did a propper handle and grip
At that point, why use a sword? Spears are better. Except halberds and poleaxes are better than spears, so why use spears? Now that I think of it, why use any pole arm when you have bows and crossbows? Or you could just use a gun. But tanks are better than all those, so why not just use tanks? Fighter planes are even better, come to think of it; why use a sword when fighter planes are so much better?
@@Don-Scrimainfact today we use modern weaponry, swords covered a niche in armored combat, the were a backup weapon, like a pistol is today to a soldier...where a tank is useful it is used, where a jet is useful it is used, same with swords spears and other weapons
The double bladed sword should be used like a staff in kali
A comment on the double bladed lightsaber, I believe it can overcome some of the problems illustrated in this video. The problem of not being able to effectively maneuver the blade from one side to the other for instance. With a lightsaber, this can be overcome by simply switching off one end of the blade maneuvering the blade to the other side, and switching the blade back on once it’s on the other side.
A force user would definitely have the reaction speed and agility needed to do this. Although you could argue that the need to do this makes the other end of the blade pointless and you might as well fight with a single bladed lightsaber.
I think that last sentence is accurate. Also, if you are fighting another force user with a typical lightsaber, you lose any advantage in reaction speed and agility as on average, they can match it.
what about javing gambesons as armor, and also teying to use it like twinblade in dark souls 2? 😊
There is a way to possibly use it in my opinion but it breaks all the rules of martial arts and sword play. Rather than fighting with binds and winds, you could swing it outside of range as you're coming in to overwhelm the senses of your opponent with uncommited strikes, basically triggering their defensive reaction repeatedly as you're coming in and strike the opening from them trying to parry your blade. But the issue now would be that it's a game of patience, but in your case, you'll also need to have the stamina to continuously move around while maintaining pressure. Also a large disc guard might work better for this kind of weapon instead of crossguard since you'll be in a bad position regardless if you ended up on the defensive side. So it's still a suicide all-or-nothing weapon
I mean twirling with it is only going to work on someone that's inexperienced, there is always a moment where your hands will be more exposed during your twirl and they'll get chopped
Try to spar with that with a staff expert.
If you were fighting a sword with the staff, you would want to have the staff in long form. And you can't do that with this
Please, please tell me what knickers you use (also your fencing shoes (my coach doesn’t want me using high or mid tops but they’re so much better for me))!
Maybe just do a video on what gear you use 😂
What did he say?!?!
which panties does he wear while we are at it
Hi, i have a question! What would be the ideal weapon that a weapons expert would recommend to someone with no experience in combat or with weapons in general? (I'm working on a fictional story and I have that question)
Spears! Cheap to make, easier to handle
Firearm. There was a reason they replaced bows even though bows were still more effective at the time.
Otherwise, context is important. On the Battlefield, there is a reason the spear was king for thousands of years. In a duel? depends on restrictions of the duel. As a side arm, walking the street? depends on what period, as it is as much fashion as anything else.
@@Scuzzlebutt142 you are right! I forgot to put a context, so basically I need to know what would be the ideal weapon for a female character with no combat experience, the spear makes sense but in a 1vs1 scenario what would be a good option? (Not counting firearms)
@@Nancygertu Yes, though I would also keep a dagger on belt as backup as well, for if they get too close.
A spear uses two hands, so less is required in terms of training for co-ordination and strength, is long, so allows to strike and maintain distance, is pretty basic in terms of functionality, and is kinda intuitive, as it is a poke-poke weapon. For 1vs1, still works, as long as you start far enough apart, so they have to cross you engagement range.
You want the dagger cause if they cross that range, you can drop the spear and go into a close grapple fight, and ice pick grip (reverse grip, blade pointed down) is fairly intuitive in how you strike.
But the best answer would be what fits your narrative. If a spear works, great.
Spear. Still. or if things are a lot closer, then a mace.@@Nancygertu
Bat’leth. Try bat’leth. It would be hilarious. And think of all the Klingons you’d upset!
but what about a double bladed semitar (basically a bo staff with dagger sized blades on each end) more so just wanting to see how it would work as a dm, to better explain combat when someone uses it
Me after seeing Shadiversity’s video: The duality of man
even if it was double-ended shortsword instead would be better...
Shadiversity did a video about the double bladed sword recently and did some sparring; they seemed to have a better time with this.
Instead of attaching the grips of each sword parallel to each other, they seem to have attached the swords from the pummels so that it gave the handle significantly more length in which allowed the user to spread their hands much further apart. I think that not only did it allow them to gain more leverage, but I think it also allowed them to present their weapon further away from their body and more easily move it around themselves since they weren’t as restricted by the reach of their opposite hand.
They found much more success in their vid, especially against longsword but not so much against polearm.
I remember seeing that he did something with it. But from my understanding what they using foam weapons? We wanted to try this out with Steel because it makes a considerable difference.
@@SellswordArtsif memory serves me right, they did try attaching 2 sharp blades together, however, it was crude and broke during testing. It was also almost as heavy as a polearm, however, I’d imagine that a real one that is made from a singular piece of metal without pummels would be slightly lighter.
Regardless, I can definitely see one being functional and maybe even a good melee weapon, however, I see no practical place/use for it. Even in the medieval period (aside for being a novelty)!
It’s a polearm that specializes in fighting sidearms, where would you even use one?
@@ee8972I have no doubt that one could be made That was less clunky than the one we used.
If it was purpose-made it would have less weight, and maybe even better hand protection.
However, it's fundamentally would not work like a sword anymore because of the problems we talked about in the video.
I know that people have done experiments where they've cut water bottles or mats with stuff like this, but it's very different from sparring another partner who's not letting them win. Especially fully geared up sparring with steel swords. It adds an element that can't be replicated by foam or plastic or low gear sparring.
This isn't to say everybody else is experiments are invalid, but this is an area that hasn't been explored yet and we wanted to do that😊
@@SellswordArts I completely agree that it’s fundamentally not a sword anymore but I don’t think the idea of a double bladed ‘sword’ is fundamentally flawed as a weapon concept and I think some of your points of criticism (not all of course) can be somewhat negated by changing elements of the weapon itself.
Regardless, can’t prove it until it’s been tested! Hope you’re not done with this topic, I’d imagine fellow arm-chair experts have their suggestions, cheers😁
I feel like instead of a double-bladed sword having a glave with a shorter blade on the back would be better.
The problem with it being a sword itself is that it really negates the best parts of being a sword, and because it's a sword spear hybrid, it also negates the best part of a spear.
I think this weapon combo is just impractical. And it's probably why it wasn't actually used.
Now, if this could be done in such a way where the sword deployed and undeployed much like a lightsaber, then we're talking a totally different game.
Simply the surprise factor of deploying a sword quickly and cutting from a different angle would be enough to change my mind.
But since these are two fixed blades, there is no surprise, and one blade hinders the other
What if one side was way shorter? Would it work then?
Loved the video 🙏 very informative
This is really interesting actually, because Shadiversity got different results using a double-sided sword, it dominated the single sword a lot, but I'm not sure what the differences are.
I do not see how that could be possible. A competent fencer would easily find holes in someone using a double-bladed sword.
It's easy to double with this sword, but it's not easy to get a clean hit and survive.
Were they using steel swords and full sparring gear?
@@SellswordArts I'll have to rewatch, I think they did at least some steel, definitely some larp swords though.
The difference is... Shadiversity...
@@SellswordArts having skimmed the video, it looks like they used larp swords for sparring. They came to the same conclusion that, just halberd because it's better.
They used larp weapons: which give a completely different feel, they don't work like steel at all, they don't bind, no thrust, less mass so you can "cheat" movements more.
Also, @sellswordArts are better fencers, and know more, you can see from footwork/engagements/language, so are giving a better evaluation.
I do think that with practice this sword could be more effective than demonstrated in this video **BUT** it would still be less effective than a regular sword. Probably even against a less experienced fencer, since so much of your time has just been spent practicing with an unwieldy, less effective weapon
but it would still be worse than two swords, or sword and companion equipment (dagger, buckler, etc).
I feel like you should have just used a bo staff instead, that is what all of darth maul's techniques are based on.
Having that restrictive small handle and having to worry about edge alignment just totally messes up half of the techniques you might have used.
I still actually think a longsword is a better weapon, but at least that way it would have been a fairer comparison.
watch a better test with a longer handle shadversity did a recent vid using steel double bladed swords
I know it's a discussion about double-bladed swords, but wouldn't a better IRL analogue be a dual-ended polearm?
That would be a different weapon. A pull arm with a small blade on either side would be much more effective
@@SellswordArts Kinda like a double glaive with a longer blade one one end and a smaller one on the other end ? A bit like you see some poleaxe have the axe head and a long spike on the other end
Still more practical than reverse grip
I feel like the learning curve to the weapon would be the problem. I feel like if someone practiced enough with one. They could become highly effective but to me, it comes off kind of as a weapon with an exceedingly high skill Requirements in order to use it effectively while not conveying that much benefit
I don't think it would, simply because it doesn't actually serve any need. It's halfway between a pole arm and a sword, and it's bad at both.
@@SellswordArts I mean, I agree with you guys, but remember yalls are trained in hema. Being trained restricts your use of tools out side of your training.i agree a standard sword is likely better. Basically it's complicated
To test the theory of a double bladed sword I recommend a longer handle and using certain staff-type based techniques (the one based around a close to middle grip).
I would go so far as to say that trying to use a double bladed sword with regular sword techniques is inherently going to be problematic.
Check the pinned comment. Even with a longer handle it wouldn't work. The problem is, sword techniques rely on being able to move the sword around the body, and you can't move this sword around the body without exposing yourself when you switch from one Sword to the other. The competent swordsman is going to be able to exploit that weakness every time. Or at least exploited enough that you'll never get a hit that isn't a double.
@@SellswordArts I feel ya. But as I mentioned, it's not just about a longer handle, it's using it more with staff (not spear) techniques as opposed to sword techniques.
That said I'm not going so far as to claim that it would be particularly effective, but I believe that is the best place to start in the goal of trying to making effective.
Heck, Darth maul is technically using a lot of staff based techniques with it the movie.
Just get a glaive. It would be better in pretty much every way.@@ronanscreed
@@kuesdav I think my comment is being misunderstood. I am not defending a double sided sword, (notice how I never said it would be any good) I am saying that if one were to try to make it effective, to test its potential, it's attributes would be best used by certain staff techniques, specifically the ones that are meant to be used with relatively close-ish to center hand positions and attack with both ends..as staffs do.
Agreed, except that does really limit your staff fighting technique also; an awful lot of those have some significant hand repositioning close to the ends. I really do get the point, honestly;
just think it's kinda pointless as no one who used swords for a living appears to have ever decided a double bladed one was a good idea. A glaive on the other hand appears to have been an excellent idea. @@ronanscreed
So does using it against multiple opponents make it any better? I get you could just use a zweihander but still, the question remains
I’d like to see out of curiosity how the duel would go with a double bladed lightsaber… 😁
You would be treating it like short form staff work. It's totally different animal when you don't have to worry about edge alignment.
It's still in my opinion would be less useful than a normal lightsaber, but it would be much more useful than this monstrosity
@@SellswordArts Fair points. I feel at first it would be a little tricky going against one just because of it being unorthodox. Of course, my only experience going against a double bladed saber is dueling with a friend way back when I was a kid. He had the Darth maul saber before it got recalled back in June 1999. He beat the crap out of me every time with that thing… It probably didn’t help that I had no formal training whatsoever back then. 😆
Is the single bladed one an Ensifer Redd?
If the sword were such that it phased through you but not through others, then a double-sided sword becomes very practical.
So magical plot armor makes it work?
Yes, which speaks as to how bad it is that it needs such a blatant magical cheat.
I found it quite interesting that you and Shadiversity got different results with the double bladed sword. They were using foam swords though, so maybe that was also a factor :)
Shadiversity also used real swords in their analysis, but do think that because they are sword enthusiasts and not formally trained swords that it did skewed the results
Ah, yes that makes sense. I forget sometimes. I tend to group all sword channels as trained- my bad 😅
This was way better than that episode. Plus Shad is literally a rape apologist. Read his book and you will never look at him the same way again. Shad is genuinely a vile human being when you get a peek into his mind
@@Sikraj They are experienced practitioners of HEMA??? They are formally trained??? What are you talking about?
@@lexecomplexe4083
Imagine being so stupid you can't tell fiction from reality
🤡
As someone who practiced Bo staff for a few years maneuverability doesn’t really seem that bad, like sure if you use the twinblade as a SWORD it is way less effective in guarding but like, if you actually have handle length and wield it more like a staff or spear you’d totally be able to move it to guard points more comfortably, no? It’s not even about learning a new unique style just not treating it like a sword and instead like a polearm using those manuals and treatises, also as for the exposed hand thing hands could be exposed more at times but a) that’s why hand protection exists and b) you could have some crossguads still to help with that a bit couldn’t you, it seems like anything a polearm could do this thing could also do albeit more…blade less shaft however now your back end is also a blade that can cut and not just a bludgeoning tool
I dunno it seems like maybe some tweaks to your version of the weapon and maybe another test but with a polearm practitioner might be able to give a better result instead of coming at it from a classical sword style but that’s just the opinion of an armchair person here
Thanks for the analysis. It was well reasoned and tested.
I think the main problem with double bladed sword that you used is the fact, that handle is way too small. Shad has video on this subject as well. He used longer handle and this thing was not that clunky, but I would prefer pollaxe with spike on the back side, or any other polearm with damaging parts on both sides
The handle size would make a small difference. But it still would have all of the problems that we talk about in this video.
You've created a less effective spear. We're happy to test it again with a full length hilt, if enough people want to donate so that we can get one commissioned.
But a couple inches of difference on the hilt isn't going to change the fact that you can't wind the other sides of the body or protect yourself effectively
@@SellswordArtsthis is true for every hafted weapon? Like if I use spear and it's by my left side, I am forced to make a passing step and possibly change hands to defend right side
Movie is movie
Game is game yeah~~~~
But this video is so interesting ㅎㅎ
Seems like a bad idea.
I was going to make a joke about Worf making it work, but the bat’leth is sharp facing you, and has knuckle protection, so it’s more reasonable that this.
My guess would be that it would better with a longer handle and holding it like a staff instead of like a sword …but the logical extension of that would be to lengthen it until its a just a double ended spear.
I've seen the bat'leth tested before and it actually has an unpredictable range with it's 3 handles being able to switch what handles you use for longer attacks, shorter but more controlled and defensive attacks, or middle range heavy attacks. Yes that sounds like it's game terms but that's the impression I got watching it
tbh. i agree. but make the handle bit longer so you can change and spin easier like a bo staff and the potential is way biger. the crossguartd with a smal hanlde like this makes it harder to use the weapon by a looooong shot.
Edit: a far as i know. Shad from Shadiversity did made one where the hanlde was 2 times the handle than a normal long sword. that would hepl for movement.
and of course to be able to use it you would need to know how to handle a staff, not a sword. Will it still be worse than a sword... hhmm probaly but a nice ide to try anyways xD
sellout swords cant make the handle longer that would make the weapon good and we cant have that
I feel like if youre good at using a staff you could somewhat have an advantage on the battlefield. Like imagine a monk uses this double bladed sword. Ofcourse a monk has had his training with their martial arts and practice experience. So other than that thought. It would probably be on the fantasy side of it. The spinning and acrobitc tricks with this odd weapon.
I'd rather have a quarterstaff than a double bladed sword on a battlefield. Swords just don't handle armour well while a blunt weapon like a staff can still kill through a lot of the common armour types you'd find on a battlefield
well you should have choosen for a better "feeling" with the double blade 2 swords with way smaller parierstange (idk how its called in english... and im too lazy to look now ^^ ... its the parrying part wich protects your hand ) so you would have somthing that could be used easie and would not give up the full dynamic potential
or use a staff and mark a like 15 to 20 cm part, bound it in leather and then use just the leather grip part for "swing and movement"
Crossguard? The issue is now you become an easy target to hand snipe
I think that with a different technique, and a different design to the blade, this WOULD be MUCH more viable. Just stringing two longswords together and treating them like a traditional blade was.. Not the way to test this. Not saying that it diminishes its downsides, or that even the best version of this would be wildly impractical anyways -- but for this to work, you'd really have to get more creative. You'd have to treat it more like its own martial art with its own unique philosophy and positions that work with the two blades instead of trying to pretend it's a one-blade with another strapped on the bottom.
Hey what gambeson are you wearing in this video David?
It's a custom one I got from SPES
@@SellswordArts It looks great! But what’s your opinion on SteelMastery’s gambesons? Are they worth the money?
@@microadam1082 I have looked into them a few times. they look like they are not idel for fencing. the armpits look restrictive and like a weak point, but i cant say as i havent bough one.
if you like the look of Steel Mastery check out Zepher Craft on Facebook. they are GREAT and look AMAZING!
Oh my god the Berserk gambeson looks amazing@@SellswordArts
You can't use s double bladed sword like a normal sword, i prefer to use them in more of a pole arm style myself