I am amazed at how Cliff stays so focused with his answers as the student continues to try to talk over him. Hence, probably the reason why the student cannot comprehend simple logic.
First of all I felt bad for the guy at the mic at first and I felt myself getting angry at him for no answer you would have given would be goods enough for his goal was not a good debate or to learn it was only to try to defeat or humiliate and for that reason the other students lost interest or never gained insight to grow on but I stopped and realized he needs Jesus and I hope you continue in sharing the Gospel of Jesus and your doing a great service and hope God blesses you in all you do. Please remember me in one of your prayers for the salvation of family members and for healing as I am going threw some very trying health issues and have been for more than half my life and I feel hopeless looking at this life forgetting that this is not my home that we are just passing through this short stay here to a much better life that awaits. Thank you. Stan. I would also ask all who read this to pray I would like to be set free from all pain an other med's as well as some addictions I am dealing with. Again thank you. Stan.
it seems like the first guy wouldn't want to be open to another view even though he knows what Cliffe was saying made sense logically... he was pointing out to Cliffe as if Cliffe was saying something very illogical ... well he knows his objection has no ground to stand on...
I respect any person's right to disagree with anything, but please be respectful. This gentleman was being rude, condescending and very arrogant. He asked for evidence and Cliff gave it to him and then he decided to talk over him why he was explaining. I hope this young man watches this and learns from this experience how to present your argument in a dignified and respectful way. Proverbs 16:18 "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall."
What I respect about cliffe is that he teaches the way Jesus did. His discussion groups around the world remind me of Jesus teaching the large groups on the mountains and city’s etc
+Dean Ainsworth Are you saying that if someone doesn't have an answer to a question that YOUR god therefor exists? I was walking home last night and there was a stone on the path. WHY WAS THE stone there, please tell me the answer according to the bible. What was the purpose of the stone being there?
Dean Ainsworth Cliffe is the one proposing that there should be one, the student then asked Cliffe to clarify what he meant which Cliffe couldn't do because he needs as vague a question as possible to create a god gap
You missed something very important with the first guy, Cliffe. He was espousing a false view of scientific laws, using them as some kind of God-surrogate that the universe itself has to follow, but this is not what a scientific law is. It is merely a useful description of the processes of the universe under certain conditions. You did address his scientism, though. I just wish that you had (and would in general) allow him to make his points and then responded to them directly. I find often that you tend to repeat your talking points, sometimes even if they are not relevant to the questioner's points. I think that it might be better if you'd expand your knowledge of philosophy and theology so that you can adequately answer more of the points that are raised. In any case, your ministry is great! God bless.
+Kevin Watson Yeah I picked that up as well. Think about it if Satan who is the most craftiest can mess people's mind up and mislead them to lying, the most obvious discernment in the first guy's question is similar to the pharisees to tried to trap Jesus in blaspheme. This is not new. Love the way brother Cliffe responds with such wisdom. Bless
You'd also have to ask why God would deliberately place Satan who is the most craftiest, next to the one thing in the garden of Eden which they were told not to eat from?. That seems a reasonable question to me. A good parent would place things which could harm their child , out of harms way. It's a little like a parent deliberately placing a hand grenade next to their child.
Much respect to you and your comment Kevin. I happen to agree with you. But honestly man, that first guy talked so darn much that there was no way that Cliffe could remember all of his points to respond to each one! Lol.
double back This is a common issue that is prevalent in Christian apologetics in general. It is often the case that the questioner is a lay person who is not very knowledgeable of these topics, which is okay. It just means that his or her points can get lost in several irrelevant statements and side-points. A considerable amount of discernment is needed to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were, in what the questioner is saying. I suppose that my point is that Cliffe would be better at doing that if he were to expand his knowledge of apologetics in general.
Same to me cliff handled himself pretty well considering the young man wasn't really interested in hearing what Cliff had to say he kept rambling on. The young man was simply there to be confrontational
+Phil Curr Ironically by design... The purpose of the public school system is to remove God and the Bible and instil the philosophy of atheism and darwinism while destroying any concept of individuality; also to make slaves to the beast
@@170221dn obviously they both correlate but if someone slaughters hundreds in the name of religion when God specifically forbids it then you can't simply bunch the two together.
The Santa Claus argument again, Cliffe should have asked him if he knew anyone who as an adult has come to believe in Santa Claus, the answer would have been no. I like Cliffe and his ministry but I wish he would take more time challenging the beliefs they come out with, make them defend their world view. The first guy is a cynic not a skeptic.
I am amazed at this young man's rational mind. The sad part is that he is holding onto science above all (as a faith position) and rational reason. He avoided the logical conclusion of his beliefs when he stated "reason comes from non reason".... dude, rational thinking states something creates something. Basic reason. Don't run from the conclusion you dont want to deal with. God is real.
Cliffe says a very true thing at about 09:33, he said "If you offer me a million dollars to believe that there is a pink elephant right here, although I might tell you, yes, there is a pink elephant right here, ..I can't do it". I feel the same way about God. It begs the question, would God want me to be honest with myself, or would he prefer I lie and say yes, i believe in him?
***** Hi anonymous person, thanks for your reply, as I say to all my Christian friends, "if it works for you, embrace it", I may have given the wrong impression if it looks like I am desperately searching for God. That certainly isn't the case, since I rejected the whole concept of Christianity a few years ago, my life has been absolutely enriched, I am a very happy settled, contented person. I was raised into the Christian faith some 57 years ago now, and I struggled for many years with the whole idea of Christ dying on the cross, and eternal damnation for non believers, not to mention the very far fetched stories. It was only since I rejected the whole idea of Christ and his salvation offer that life really began to make sense to me. I am fascinated with miracle claims, ..I am about 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen, and praying to God does not work. Certainly things happen in our lives occasionally that may give the appearance of something unexpected happening, ie I may have a dream about something or someone, and the next day I will see that person who I dreamed about, I certainly wouldn't call that a miracle, it's just a coincidence, and they happen to everyone. With prayer, there is no evidence that prayer works, in the sense that God listens to your prayer, and supernaturally intervenes to make that prayer come true. I think prayer in terms of self reflection and inner thought may be beneficial to an individual, but other than that there is absolutely no evidence that prayer works in terms of you asking God to help you, and he responding. There are hundreds of different faiths, gods, and denominations, and individuals of all these differing faiths pray to their own God, does that mean that these other Gods are real if the odd prayer is seemingly answered from each faith? If a Muslim prays to Allah, and his prayer is answered, does that mean Heaven is filled with hundreds of different Gods from each faith? Heh, think about it. Good to hear from you, and thanks again for your nice reply. Don't worry about me :-) I'm absolutely fine.
***** Hi again, good to hear your thoughts, I'm always happy to get any feedback, good or bad, it's all good to me. It's interesting to hear you say that you think I'm being intellectually dishonest, if you can give me an example of something I've said that you think I wasn't being truthful I'd be happy to re-examine my answer.
@@bonnie43uk 1. “I am fascinated with miracle claims” 2. I’m 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen” 3. “Does that mean heaven is filled with hundreds of different Gods” 4. “Don’t worry about me I’m absolutely fine” 5. “It’s interesting to hear you say that you think I’m being Intellectually dishonest”
@@bonnie43uk 1. “I am fascinated with miracle claims” Me too!! Because a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism basically says that (nobody took no time to turn nothing into everything) a belief that at worst is synonymous with the belief in magic and at best it’s synonymous with the belief in myths and miracles. I don’t need secular myths and secular religion to know what right and wrong is!! I wouldn’t have the arrogance to gaslight and use passive aggression to lecture a bereaved mother during a pandemic who’s only consolation is the hope of being reunited with her child in some kind of afterlife. 2. “I’m 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen” Wow Bonnie i wish that i could take that enormous leap of faith!! How do you square that with the fact that…. (Relativism, strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism is); “The belief that there was “nothing”, and nothing didn’t really mean nothing as there was no such thing as meaning, and then nothing much happened to nothing except nothing and then nothing suddenly magically exploded for no reason, creating everything, and then a bunch of everything suddenly magically rearranged itself -- for no reason whatsoever -- into self replicating bits which then turned into something that meant everything. But it didn’t really mean everything or anything as everything is meaningless.” (Atheism) Yeah perfectly “sane” Bonnie and makes perfect sense!! About as much sense as your ironic proselytising about atheism not to mention your belief that your passive aggressive approach to debate is edgy and clever!! And they mock other peoples beliefs!! 3. “Does that mean heaven is filled with hundreds of different Gods” More importantly Bonnie does it mean that atheist heaven (The infinite multiverse) is filled with infinite different gods of relativism? Because the fact is that there are plenty gods of relativism and creation myths to choose from, especially if you’re a strictly reductive materialist, atheist or philosophical naturalist. There’s the god of the Big Bounce, The Bubble universe, The god of the Steady State universe used to be quite popular before the “Big Bang”, There’s also the Black Hole universe, The Simulation universe god, Flat Earth universe, Plasma electric universe god, The god of Electric light Orchestra universe etc. The list goes on but some of us just go one god of relativism further by believing that an accidental, meaningless, blind, mindless, cosmic god of mishaps did it and then one “Big Bang” and evolution. Basically, militant atheists deny one less god of relativism than theists do. Militant atheists don't believe in the 2,999 gods of relativism/atheism in the whole of history because they have been debunked by science as it is a constantly changing landscape regarding what (is) not what (ought) to be!! And theists don't believe in just one more!! Gotcha!! drum roll, kerching (Applause). 4. “Don’t worry about me I’m absolutely fine” How quaint a militant atheist who thinks it’s original and edgy to use passive aggression rather than blatantly mock, demonise and troll!! It’s a refreshing change!! I’m fascinated by atheists (relativists) who argue about “truth” whilst simultaneously believing that the “truth” is that there is no “truth”. Must take a lot of practice to square that with reality and morality!! How do you square the fact that under this causally closed effectively complete system your truth claims have no more truth value than leaves blowing in the wind as you and the leaves are ultimately destined for the same place (The Fertiliser Pit)? In a 2013 study of undergraduates, researchers concluded that passive-aggressive behavior may relate to "an inner insecurity regarding one's value or worth, particularly with respect to authority figures." I’m happy to get feed back if you don’t think this applies to you!! Nevertheless, my favourite are the atheists who believe it’s their moral imperative to gaslight and lecture believers who are in mourning during a pandemic that their prayer won’t be answered and they will never ever see their loved ones again. However, the question is why do passive aggressive atheists behave this way? Is it because… (A) Atheists are more intelligent. (B) Atheists know everything as they are more highly evolved than everyone else. (C) Atheists have “proven” beyond doubt that (nobody took no time to turn nothing into everything). (D) Atheists who feel that it’s their moral imperative to tell people who are bereaved that there is no afterlife are douche bags. Please Vote Now. 5. “It’s interesting to hear you say that you think I’m being Intellectually dishonest” Interesting response!! It’s beyond ironic that you don’t even know the implications of your own world view. If your going to ironically proselytise about atheism don’t be an hypocrite and at least have the courage like Nietzsche, Albert Camus and David Hume to face the logical consequences of your belief in a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism. That is epistemological nihilism!! At least be a consistent strictly reductive materialist, atheist or philosophical naturalist!! Because according to the atheist philosophers with possibly the highest IQs of all the atheists that ever lived…. “You can not get an (ought) out of an (is)” - (David Hume) Logic is an illusion (Nietzsche) “Truths are illusions which we have forgotten are illusions. - (Nietzsche, Reference from: On Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense). “Should I kill myself?” is the essential philosophical question.” (Albert Camus). Cheerful bloke I bet he’s a blast at parties!! Equally, Nietzsche is just being consistent with this self refuting world view and points out that under this causally closed effectively complete system our search for truth is really a deep and complex way of hiding the truth. We could even say that rigorous, syllogistic, logical truth, insofar as it absorbs us, insofar as we find it impossible to doubt, insofar as we find it meaningful and significant, deflects us from the ultimate truth, the horror, emptiness, and meaninglessness of existence-it deceives. (Nietzsche) As I pointed out already your existential crisis and epistemological crisis not ours!! How do you square that with the rhetorical device “I’m 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen”. It’s beyond absurd and ironic!! (Relativism, strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism) “The belief that the truth is that there is no truth” Sorry but everyone has a right to believe what they want and everyone including theists have a right to find it ridiculous…. Furthermore, iv never been mocked, ridiculed, demonised, gaslighted. Not to mention passively aggressively attacked after explaining I’m going through a bereavement by Buddhists, Catholics, Sikhs, Christians, Hindus or even strict Muslims! Only by so called loving, rational, sceptical atheists (Humanists?). Don’t worry about me though I’m absolutely fine. If you can provide evidence or solid truth of something you think I said that wasn’t “truthful” I’m happy to re-examine my points if you could just simply provide proof as to…. Why we “ought” to take an overgrown amoeba with illusions of grandeur’s claims to the rational and moral high ground seriously? Why should we believe the myths, delusions and “truth” claims of an evolved ape who shares half their DNA with bananas?? Your existential crisis and epistemological crisis not ours buddy!! Evidence to the contrary please not gaslighting and passive aggression!! I’ll wait!!
@@bonnie43uk “I’m 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen” During the Reign of Terror of the French Revolution, that is during the reign of what is now referred to by historians as the (cult of reason) in France one morning's executions began with three men: a rabbi, a Catholic priest, and an atheist who was a “rationalist” skeptic but unfortunately also an (aristocrat). The rabbi was marched up onto the platform first. There, facing the guillotine, he was asked if he had any last words. And the rabbi cried out, "I believe in the one and only true God, and He shall save me." The executioner then positioned the rabbi below the blade, set the block above his neck, and pulled the cord to set the terrible instrument in motion. The heavy cleaver plunged downward, searing the air. But then, abruptly, it stopped with a crack just a few inches above the would-be victim's neck. To which the rabbi said, "I told you so." "It's a miracle!" gasped the disappointed crowd of blood thirsty atheists. And the executioner had to agree, letting the rabbi go. Next in line was the priest. Asked for his final words, he declared, "I believe in Jesus Christ the light of the world, lord your will be done not mine." The executioner then positioned the Christian beneath the blade. And he pulled the cord. Again the blade flew downward thump! creak! ...stopping just short of its mark once more. "Another miracle!" sighed the very disappointed crowd of atheists who were hoping for blood. And the executioner for the second time had no choice but to let the condemned go free. Now it was the atheists turn to face death. "What final words have you to say?" he was asked. But the skeptic didn't hear. Staring intently at the ominous engine of death, he seemed lost. Not until the executioner poked him in the ribs and the question was asked again did he reply. "Oh, I see your problem," the atheist skeptic said pointing at the blood splattered guillotine. "No magical floating sky daddy involved it’s nothing more than a blockage in the rear gear assembly, right there!" “Where”? Said the executioner “I can’t see a blockage?” The Rabbi whispers in the atheists ear “Have you gone mad?” The atheist stood condescendingly with his hands on his hips and exclaimed. “Don’t worry about me :-). I’m absolutely fine. I’m just 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen!!” God facepalms!! Gotcha!! ❤️
+Wiezymon Glad you call them what they are: claims ;) Still, i felt that is was more the other way around. Everytime the kid ask something, Cliffe went on preaching on something else.
P.G. Burgess "Glad you call them what they are: claims" What were you trying to suggest? "Still, i felt that is was more the other way around." I think that you need to reword that because it does not make sense.
***** "What were you trying to suggest?" That there were not many arguments, just claims. I meant that, imo, it was Cliffe that never adressed anything that was brought up and kept jumping subjects. I'm still waiting for a def of 'value' for example.
P.G. Burgess "I meant that, imo, it was Cliffe that never adressed anything that was brought up and kept jumping subjects. I'm still waiting for a def of 'value' for example." To a degree, I agree with you on those things.
+pg burgess the fact that you or anyone would even ask what is the definition of value is proving the point that you would rather make a ridiculous argument instead of taking the obvious "definition" of value. "what do you mean by purpose?" that is ridiculous
I once had a discussion here with one of these guys who believes life comes from nonlife... and then turns around to claim He accepts Pasteur's experiment that disproves spontaneous generation. I had to bang my head on the table before I responded to him!
Adolf Sackey If you have a rule that says that life cannot come from non life then how did your god come in to being? As a matter of fact how did your god come in to being as Jesus? How did your god make life from dust if you have a rule that says life cannot come from non life?
First guy called out a lot of Cliffe's stupidity. A shame Cliffe never continued to answer his question or adress his remarks but always jumped to another topic (rewatch it if you don't believe me). Best points: the vagueness and illdefined usuage of term like 'value'. this claim you can adress these question based on evidence in a meaninfull 'non-scientific way'. What i'd like to add: This start-off statement that you HAVE to ask his 4 questions, and the assumption therefor you HAVE to have an answer.
***** yeah, with their constant demand to back up bs-claims... :-s I find it strange even Cliffe seems to acknowledge the scientific methode. Up to the point it conflicts with his religious views... Then there s a sudden need for 'inuitive philosophy'
***** I think 'scientism' (as an accusation of close-mindedness) is used far to often and easily. All is asked here is that if you, like Cliffe, want to have a philosophycal discussion, you have to do it properly. Define your terms, stay clear of ambigious and vague wording, stay on topic... If Cliffe thinks he is an educator (rather then a preacher) he should at least make the effort to do it right. None of what he said would make it in a paper, neither scientific nor in philosophy-classes.
***** - I agree that people need to understand the meaning of their words. That's why i think it's strange Cliffe couldn't decenlty define 'value' f.e. in a decent way. I think it is because pretty much all def's of value are clear that they include a human action of judgement. So with that the argument does not hold anymore. When pushed he shifts to 'intrisinc values'. Which, though less clearly defined, is a philosophical concept that is wildly critisised. And certainly not demostrable to exist. And it's actually no part of his christian view either (since they are not intrinsic, in and of themself, but attributed by a god). And so the discussion would shift again... - "you clearly haven't taken many philosophy courses". I must confess i haven't. But i'm pretty sure from what i've read that decent philosphy also requires things like: properly define your terms and use them by that definition. If you make claims about reality, you should be able to demontrate them, etc. - Well, a definition by someone like CSLewis is hardly impartial. The other one seems to come from Webster.. where you kindly took the second one and not the more general "methods and attitudes typical of or attributed to the natural scientist". On that topic you also missed out the opportunity to actually describe any other way that could make sensible predictions about reality or explain things in meaningfull terms. Or to paraphrase Cliffe on 'how can you non-scientificly demonstrate something to exists". You can't scientificly demonstrate the inate value of life .. therefor it exists!" ;)
value isn't vague. it's only vague from a scientific perspective but that's the point. everything cannot be proven scientifically. Ask any honest person if they value their lives and the lives of others and you get a clear concise answer.
Rude it doesnt have to be 'scientific'. Just a coherent sentence to start the conversation from. But yes, (pretty much) all people value their lives. That is the obvious way how things work: people value things. How does that demonstrate that the value comes from somewhere else? You litteraly describe it as a human action.
people in a coma are supposedly a drain to a materialist. In reality people wait for people in coma's to wake up, because they love them. They have enate worth , value and purpose.
+Ariel Most 'materialists' will agree that they aren't robots. All it takes is recognizing that emotions and experiences are fundamental to our nature and they, above all, matter to us. That they are not meaningless with a devine autohority telling us. That we can attribute meaning and value to things and that this matters.. not in a 'universal' way, but to us, as human beings.
P.G. Burgess - that's why eveyrthing peope say is just an excuse. but they have no excuse, because it has been plain to see that everyone is created for a purpose.
Ariel well, to a lot of people it isn't plain to see. I just wanted to inform you how someone of a different worldview might look at these issues, so you wouldn't have make wrong assumptions on their behalf.
I enjoy listening to Cliffe even though I am an Atheist, well at the moment I am although that is always subject to change if I felt I had good reason, now, I'm not necessarily wanting to get into another 'is there a God or not?' debate although they're always interesting to have :) but what I would like to ask Christian believers is this, say for arguments sake I am wrong and there is a God, would God want me to say 'yes I believe' when I really mean I doubt, or would God rather I say 'I doubt' and mean I doubt?, I would have thought the latter myself and the latter is all I am doing, now I could do the first one but if I did I would be a hypocrite and I presume that God wouldn't want me to be a hypocrite?
You are rite in my opinion I don't think God would accept your doubting heart. He would know before you did if you did or did not believe in him. Here is the thing you have to ask yourself, can you believe in something that you can not see, touch, or audibly hear. I believe that just you asking questions about God will lead you to him. Faith is the big word here, can you put your faith in something you can't see. We can't see the wind but the wind blows none the less. I don't know you friend but I bet if you search your heart and be honest with yourself and look at yourself in the eye for a few minutes you can answer the question of wether or not there is a God or not.;-)
+John Mathis Thanks for your honest answer, I always appreciate that and I will be equally honest back and say that I believe the existence of a God of some form is a POSSIBILITY and one that has not been totally ruled although many discoveries in Science do certainly put a question mark on it. What I can't honestly say at the moment is I am sure of it, this is why I often say to other believers that if there really is a God then the only one that could ever convince me beyond all reasonable doubt would be God himself, I am perfectly willing and open to change my mind and go from Agnostic Atheism to belief, this God would in theory have the power to show himself to me if he really wanted me to know for sure he was there. So, I do unfortunately have to ask myself why he hasn't done this and apart from the answer 'because there is no God to show himself' I can't see any other reason why a being with such unlimited power and supposedly love for me wouldn't make more of a supernatural effort to show himself, apparently he does show himself to a select number, or so they claim. Like the way he seemed to show himself to Saul on the Damascus Road back in the Bible days, it's a wonderful story and I just wish I could have that kind of dynamic revelation and calling too. Then I'd really know there was a God and one who really wanted me as opposed to not even being sure if there is one and even if there is if he even cares whether I believe or not, that is my position at the moment, one other thing I will concede to Cliffe on, he is right, if there is no God and no life after death and if we evolved and all our lives are just the result of mindless evolutionary processes, then there really would be no ultimate meaning but I couldn't live that out, he is right, I don't think anyone could wake up in the morning and think 'oh well...I'm just the result of millions of years of evolutionary processes and everything is pointless but oh well...another day another dollar'... blah blah blah, that would be insane Lol. We all need to believe this life has meaning otherwise why bother to wake up in the morning?, if I was 100% sure there was no God and no ultimate purpose I wouldn't bother, thanks.
Everyone has doubted at some point. Every time I have doubted in the past I have studied the bible and redeemed my faith. I'm to the point now that I understand that my bouts of doubt comes from me lacking understanding.
If you don’t believe then what are you doubting? To doubt is to lack conviction or have uncertainty. You can’t have doubt if you don’t have an inkling of belief. So again, what are you doubting?
This guy just throws little insults while he talks, calling the bible mythology. Luckily he is in a county that honors free speak and followers for Christ would never harm him. Imagine him trying that with some other violent religions.
+Adolf Sackey Exactly, why ask someone to scientifically define something if you don't have a definition of it, Cliffe's questions are so often like this, poorly worded and if you don't challenge him like this guy did he gets away with poor arguments.
God created the laws our universe lives by. If this is the case then proving any laws of the universe were already set in motion. You can’t prove creation either way which is why faith ends up being important.
I would never spend time talking with close minded people who think they are their own god's! They fall into the category of people were Jesus said: I have not come to the healthy, but to the sick! You say you see, your sin remains!
Reading the nagative comments from the loving Christians reemphasizes why I don't believe. practice what you preach. Cliffe says points to a designer and assumes god.
You aren't very loving either, Christians don't wear their belief as a way to appear superior to you. Why would i write "i love the kid" when all he did was resort to interruptions and arrogance. You narcissistical atheists need to be humbled.
+nadoeloiskat wow. Amazing story. I wonder if people go on being agnostics or atheists because even after they got "a tap on the shoulder" from God while they were un believing like you did when you saw the vision of the light they still attribute it to a natural phenomenon? I dont know. Maybe they have yet to get that experience. Maybe that is the key an experience which is only granted to some people or maybe an experience granted to all people and they continue to ignore that vision or terrible feeling that they had. I had some experiences that I cannot naturally explain away.
I am amazed at how Cliff stays so focused with his answers as the student continues to try to talk over him. Hence, probably the reason why the student cannot comprehend simple logic.
Kudos to Cliff for dealing with someone like that. I couldn't.
+Bryan Knox although, do believe I saw him bite his tongue.
Bryan Knox, Child of God: Yes, Cliffe has some extraordinary levels of patience.
First of all I felt bad for the guy at the mic at first and I felt myself getting angry at him for no answer you would have given would be goods enough for his goal was not a good debate or to learn it was only to try to defeat or humiliate and for that reason the other students lost interest or never gained insight to grow on but I stopped and realized he needs Jesus and I hope you continue in sharing the Gospel of Jesus and your doing a great service and hope God blesses you in all you do.
Please remember me in one of your prayers for the salvation of family members and for healing as I am going threw some very trying health issues and have been for more than half my life and I feel hopeless looking at this life forgetting that this is not my home that we are just passing through this short stay here to a much better life that awaits.
Thank you.
Stan. I would also ask all who read this to pray I would like to be set free from all pain an other med's as well as some addictions I am dealing with.
Again thank you.
Stan.
it seems like the first guy wouldn't want to be open to another view even though he knows what Cliffe was saying made sense logically... he was pointing out to Cliffe as if Cliffe was saying something very illogical ... well he knows his objection has no ground to stand on...
The ending message is one of the best I’ve heard from Cliff
I respect any person's right to disagree with anything, but please be respectful. This gentleman was being rude, condescending and very arrogant. He asked for evidence and Cliff gave it to him and then he decided to talk over him why he was explaining. I hope this young man watches this and learns from this experience how to present your argument in a dignified and respectful way.
Proverbs 16:18 "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall."
Best part of these vids is the theme song video! I always watch and chuckle watching my man b-ball in a sweater😂 God Bless this ministry it’s amazing
What I respect about cliffe is that he teaches the way Jesus did. His discussion groups around the world remind me of Jesus teaching the large groups on the mountains and city’s etc
Did that first bloke give his scientific answer to value? Is there a study where I can find the outcomes of this scientific answer?
+Dean Ainsworth
Are you saying that if someone doesn't have an answer to a question that YOUR god therefor exists?
I was walking home last night and there was a stone on the path. WHY WAS THE stone there, please tell me the answer according to the bible. What was the purpose of the stone being there?
+170221dn No I'm asking for his scientific claim for value.
Dean Ainsworth
Cliffe is the one proposing that there should be one, the student then asked Cliffe to clarify what he meant which Cliffe couldn't do because he needs as vague a question as possible to create a god gap
It's amazing how people can say so much and yet nothing at all,thank the lord for cliffes patience 🙏
You missed something very important with the first guy, Cliffe. He was espousing a false view of scientific laws, using them as some kind of God-surrogate that the universe itself has to follow, but this is not what a scientific law is. It is merely a useful description of the processes of the universe under certain conditions. You did address his scientism, though. I just wish that you had (and would in general) allow him to make his points and then responded to them directly. I find often that you tend to repeat your talking points, sometimes even if they are not relevant to the questioner's points. I think that it might be better if you'd expand your knowledge of philosophy and theology so that you can adequately answer more of the points that are raised. In any case, your ministry is great! God bless.
+Kevin Watson
Yeah I picked that up as well. Think about it if Satan who is the most craftiest can mess people's mind up and mislead them to lying, the most obvious discernment in the first guy's question is similar to the pharisees to tried to trap Jesus in blaspheme. This is not new.
Love the way brother Cliffe responds with such wisdom.
Bless
You'd also have to ask why God would deliberately place Satan who is the most craftiest, next to the one thing in the garden of Eden which they were told not to eat from?. That seems a reasonable question to me. A good parent would place things which could harm their child , out of harms way. It's a little like a parent deliberately placing a hand grenade next to their child.
Much respect to you and your comment Kevin. I happen to agree with you. But honestly man, that first guy talked so darn much that there was no way that Cliffe could remember all of his points to respond to each one! Lol.
double back This is a common issue that is prevalent in Christian apologetics in general. It is often the case that the questioner is a lay person who is not very knowledgeable of these topics, which is okay. It just means that his or her points can get lost in several irrelevant statements and side-points. A considerable amount of discernment is needed to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were, in what the questioner is saying. I suppose that my point is that Cliffe would be better at doing that if he were to expand his knowledge of apologetics in general.
Same to me cliff handled himself pretty well considering the young man wasn't really interested in hearing what Cliff had to say he kept rambling on.
The young man was simply there to be confrontational
This dude at the mic just DOESN'T stop talking does he?
Thank you Cliff for doing this. We need this now more than ever.
9:53-10:10 Amen.
How have many of this college kids become out of touch with reality?
+Phil Curr Ironically by design... The purpose of the public school system is to remove God and the Bible and instil the philosophy of atheism and darwinism while destroying any concept of individuality; also to make slaves to the beast
+Phil Curr
I assume by losing touch with reality you mean they turn to religion?
@@170221dnyou can't even feel your soul so please don't be so ignorant as to compare God with religion.
@@JohnjOcampo nothing to do with my soul, gods and religions are closely linked by their very meanings in the dictionary.
@@170221dn obviously they both correlate but if someone slaughters hundreds in the name of religion when God specifically forbids it then you can't simply bunch the two together.
The Santa Claus argument again, Cliffe should have asked him if he knew anyone who as an adult has come to believe in Santa Claus, the answer would have been no. I like Cliffe and his ministry but I wish he would take more time challenging the beliefs they come out with, make them defend their world view. The first guy is a cynic not a skeptic.
Santa Claus as a person has no historical context the way jesus does.
I am amazed at this young man's rational mind. The sad part is that he is holding onto science above all (as a faith position) and rational reason. He avoided the logical conclusion of his beliefs when he stated "reason comes from non reason".... dude, rational thinking states something creates something. Basic reason. Don't run from the conclusion you dont want to deal with. God is real.
Love it
Also, what if two people give different definitions of value? How does science choose which is right?
This guy just cant seem to get Cliffe's point and keeps trying to talk over him. Talk about having an argument just for the sake of an arguing 🤦♂️
The dude has no wisdom and a huge ego
Happy Easter to one and all.
you don't believe in easter
gunner kicks: LOL 😅
Who determines what is extra ordinary evidence who decides its extra ordinary or not?
Cliffe says a very true thing at about 09:33, he said "If you offer me a million dollars to believe that there is a pink elephant right here, although I might tell you, yes, there is a pink elephant right here, ..I can't do it".
I feel the same way about God. It begs the question, would God want me to be honest with myself, or would he prefer I lie and say yes, i believe in him?
***** Hi anonymous person, thanks for your reply, as I say to all my Christian friends, "if it works for you, embrace it", I may have given the wrong impression if it looks like I am desperately searching for God. That certainly isn't the case, since I rejected the whole concept of Christianity a few years ago, my life has been absolutely enriched, I am a very happy settled, contented person. I was raised into the Christian faith some 57 years ago now, and I struggled for many years with the whole idea of Christ dying on the cross, and eternal damnation for non believers, not to mention the very far fetched stories. It was only since I rejected the whole idea of Christ and his salvation offer that life really began to make sense to me. I am fascinated with miracle claims, ..I am about 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen, and praying to God does not work. Certainly things happen in our lives occasionally that may give the appearance of something unexpected happening, ie I may have a dream about something or someone, and the next day I will see that person who I dreamed about, I certainly wouldn't call that a miracle, it's just a coincidence, and they happen to everyone. With prayer, there is no evidence that prayer works, in the sense that God listens to your prayer, and supernaturally intervenes to make that prayer come true. I think prayer in terms of self reflection and inner thought may be beneficial to an individual, but other than that there is absolutely no evidence that prayer works in terms of you asking God to help you, and he responding. There are hundreds of different faiths, gods, and denominations, and individuals of all these differing faiths pray to their own God, does that mean that these other Gods are real if the odd prayer is seemingly answered from each faith? If a Muslim prays to Allah, and his prayer is answered, does that mean Heaven is filled with hundreds of different Gods from each faith? Heh, think about it. Good to hear from you, and thanks again for your nice reply. Don't worry about me :-) I'm absolutely fine.
***** Hi again, good to hear your thoughts, I'm always happy to get any feedback, good or bad, it's all good to me. It's interesting to hear you say that you think I'm being intellectually dishonest, if you can give me an example of something I've said that you think I wasn't being truthful I'd be happy to re-examine my answer.
@@bonnie43uk
1. “I am fascinated with miracle claims”
2. I’m 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen”
3. “Does that mean heaven is filled with hundreds of different Gods”
4. “Don’t worry about me I’m absolutely fine”
5. “It’s interesting to hear you say that you think I’m being Intellectually dishonest”
@@bonnie43uk
1.
“I am fascinated with miracle claims”
Me too!! Because a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism basically says that (nobody took no time to turn nothing into everything) a belief that at worst is synonymous with the belief in magic and at best it’s synonymous with the belief in myths and miracles. I don’t need secular myths and secular religion to know what right and wrong is!! I wouldn’t have the arrogance to gaslight and use passive aggression to lecture a bereaved mother during a pandemic who’s only consolation is the hope of being reunited with her child in some kind of afterlife.
2.
“I’m 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen”
Wow Bonnie i wish that i could take that enormous leap of faith!! How do you square that with the fact that….
(Relativism, strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism is);
“The belief that there was “nothing”, and nothing didn’t really mean nothing as there was no such thing as meaning, and then nothing much happened to nothing except nothing and then nothing suddenly magically exploded for no reason, creating everything, and then a bunch of everything suddenly magically rearranged itself -- for no reason whatsoever -- into self replicating bits which then turned into something that meant everything. But it didn’t really mean everything or anything as everything is meaningless.” (Atheism)
Yeah perfectly “sane” Bonnie and makes perfect sense!! About as much sense as your ironic proselytising about atheism not to mention your belief that your passive aggressive approach to debate is edgy and clever!!
And they mock other peoples beliefs!!
3.
“Does that mean heaven is filled with hundreds of different Gods”
More importantly Bonnie does it mean that atheist heaven (The infinite multiverse) is filled with infinite different gods of relativism?
Because the fact is that there are plenty gods of relativism and creation myths to choose from, especially if you’re a strictly reductive materialist, atheist or philosophical naturalist. There’s the god of the Big Bounce, The Bubble universe, The god of the Steady State universe used to be quite popular before the “Big Bang”, There’s also the Black Hole universe, The Simulation universe god, Flat Earth universe, Plasma electric universe god, The god of Electric light Orchestra universe etc.
The list goes on but some of us just go one god of relativism further by believing that an accidental, meaningless, blind, mindless, cosmic god of mishaps did it and then one “Big Bang” and evolution. Basically, militant atheists deny one less god of relativism than theists do. Militant atheists don't believe in the 2,999 gods of relativism/atheism in the whole of history because they have been debunked by science as it is a constantly changing landscape regarding what (is) not what (ought) to be!! And theists don't believe in just one more!!
Gotcha!! drum roll, kerching (Applause).
4.
“Don’t worry about me I’m absolutely fine”
How quaint a militant atheist who thinks it’s original and edgy to use passive aggression rather than blatantly mock, demonise and troll!! It’s a refreshing change!! I’m fascinated by atheists (relativists) who argue about “truth” whilst simultaneously believing that the “truth” is that there is no “truth”. Must take a lot of practice to square that with reality and morality!! How do you square the fact that under this causally closed effectively complete system your truth claims have no more truth value than leaves blowing in the wind as you and the leaves are ultimately destined for the same place (The Fertiliser Pit)?
In a 2013 study of undergraduates, researchers concluded that passive-aggressive behavior may relate to "an inner insecurity regarding one's value or worth, particularly with respect to authority figures." I’m happy to get feed back if you don’t think this applies to you!!
Nevertheless, my favourite are the atheists who believe it’s their moral imperative to gaslight and lecture believers who are in mourning during a pandemic that their prayer won’t be answered and they will never ever see their loved ones again. However, the question is why do passive aggressive atheists behave this way? Is it because…
(A) Atheists are more intelligent.
(B) Atheists know everything as they are more highly evolved than everyone else.
(C) Atheists have “proven” beyond doubt that (nobody took no time to turn nothing into everything).
(D) Atheists who feel that it’s their moral imperative to tell people who are bereaved that there is no afterlife are douche bags.
Please Vote Now.
5.
“It’s interesting to hear you say that you think I’m being Intellectually dishonest”
Interesting response!! It’s beyond ironic that you don’t even know the implications of your own world view. If your going to ironically proselytise about atheism don’t be an hypocrite and at least have the courage like Nietzsche, Albert Camus and David Hume to face the logical consequences of your belief in a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism. That is epistemological nihilism!!
At least be a consistent strictly reductive materialist, atheist or philosophical naturalist!! Because according to the atheist philosophers with possibly the highest IQs of all the atheists that ever lived….
“You can not get an (ought) out of an (is)” - (David Hume)
Logic is an illusion (Nietzsche)
“Truths are illusions which we have forgotten are illusions.
- (Nietzsche, Reference from: On Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense).
“Should I kill myself?” is the essential philosophical question.” (Albert Camus).
Cheerful bloke I bet he’s a blast at parties!!
Equally, Nietzsche is just being consistent with this self refuting world view and points out that under this causally closed effectively complete system our search for truth is really a deep and complex way of hiding the truth. We could even say that rigorous, syllogistic, logical truth, insofar as it absorbs us, insofar as we find it impossible to doubt, insofar as we find it meaningful and significant, deflects us from the ultimate truth, the horror, emptiness, and meaninglessness of existence-it deceives. (Nietzsche)
As I pointed out already your existential crisis and epistemological crisis not ours!! How do you square that with the rhetorical device “I’m 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen”. It’s beyond absurd and ironic!!
(Relativism, strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism)
“The belief that the truth is that there is no truth”
Sorry but everyone has a right to believe what they want and everyone including theists have a right to find it ridiculous….
Furthermore, iv never been mocked, ridiculed, demonised, gaslighted. Not to mention passively aggressively attacked after explaining I’m going through a bereavement by Buddhists, Catholics, Sikhs, Christians, Hindus or even strict Muslims!
Only by so called loving, rational, sceptical atheists (Humanists?).
Don’t worry about me though I’m absolutely fine. If you can provide evidence or solid truth of something you think I said that wasn’t “truthful” I’m happy to re-examine my points if you could just simply provide proof as to….
Why we “ought” to take an overgrown amoeba with illusions of grandeur’s claims to the rational and moral high ground seriously? Why should we believe the myths, delusions and “truth” claims of an evolved ape who shares half their DNA with bananas?? Your existential crisis and epistemological crisis not ours buddy!!
Evidence to the contrary please not gaslighting and passive aggression!! I’ll wait!!
@@bonnie43uk
“I’m 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen”
During the Reign of Terror of the French Revolution, that is during the reign of what is now referred to by historians as the (cult of reason) in France one morning's executions began with three men: a rabbi, a Catholic priest, and an atheist who was a “rationalist” skeptic but unfortunately also an (aristocrat).
The rabbi was marched up onto the platform first. There, facing the guillotine, he was asked if he had any last words. And the rabbi cried out, "I believe in the one and only true God, and He shall save me." The executioner then positioned the rabbi below the blade, set the block above his neck, and pulled the cord to set the terrible instrument in motion. The heavy cleaver plunged downward, searing the air. But then, abruptly, it stopped with a crack just a few inches above the would-be victim's neck. To which the rabbi said, "I told you so."
"It's a miracle!" gasped the disappointed crowd of blood thirsty atheists. And the executioner had to agree, letting the rabbi go.
Next in line was the priest. Asked for his final words, he declared, "I believe in Jesus Christ the light of the world, lord your will be done not mine." The executioner then positioned the Christian beneath the blade. And he pulled the cord. Again the blade flew downward thump! creak! ...stopping just short of its mark once more.
"Another miracle!" sighed the very disappointed crowd of atheists who were hoping for blood. And the executioner for the second time had no choice but to let the condemned go free.
Now it was the atheists turn to face death. "What final words have you to say?" he was asked. But the skeptic didn't hear. Staring intently at the ominous engine of death, he seemed lost. Not until the executioner poked him in the ribs and the question was asked again did he reply.
"Oh, I see your problem," the atheist skeptic said pointing at the blood splattered guillotine. "No magical floating sky daddy involved it’s nothing more than a blockage in the rear gear assembly, right there!"
“Where”? Said the executioner “I can’t see a blockage?” The Rabbi whispers in the atheists ear “Have you gone mad?” The atheist stood condescendingly with his hands on his hips and exclaimed. “Don’t worry about me :-). I’m absolutely fine. I’m just 99.9% certain that miracles do not happen!!”
God facepalms!!
Gotcha!!
❤️
Was that first even trying to listen to Cliffe's claims?
+Wiezymon Glad you call them what they are: claims ;)
Still, i felt that is was more the other way around. Everytime the kid ask something, Cliffe went on preaching on something else.
P.G. Burgess
"Glad you call them what they are: claims"
What were you trying to suggest?
"Still, i felt that is was more the other way around." I think that you need to reword that because it does not make sense.
***** "What were you trying to suggest?"
That there were not many arguments, just claims.
I meant that, imo, it was Cliffe that never adressed anything that was brought up and kept jumping subjects.
I'm still waiting for a def of 'value' for example.
P.G. Burgess "I meant that, imo, it was Cliffe that never adressed anything that was brought up and kept jumping subjects.
I'm still waiting for a def of 'value' for example."
To a degree, I agree with you on those things.
+pg burgess the fact that you or anyone would even ask what is the definition of value is proving the point that you would rather make a ridiculous argument instead of taking the obvious "definition" of value.
"what do you mean by purpose?" that is ridiculous
If its just defining value or worth, why would science be required?
I once had a discussion here with one of these guys who believes life comes from nonlife... and then turns around to claim He accepts Pasteur's experiment that disproves spontaneous generation.
I had to bang my head on the table before I responded to him!
+Adolf Sackey
So life cannot come from non life?
Is god alive?
+170221dn what do you think?
Adolf Sackey
I think he doesn't exist so for me the question is irrelevant, it does however point out your flawed assertion
+170221dn Alright then. Let's not waste time discussing about something you think is irrelevant.
Adolf Sackey
If you have a rule that says that life cannot come from non life then how did your god come in to being?
As a matter of fact how did your god come in to being as Jesus?
How did your god make life from dust if you have a rule that says life cannot come from non life?
First guy called out a lot of Cliffe's stupidity. A shame Cliffe never continued to answer his question or adress his remarks but always jumped to another topic (rewatch it if you don't believe me).
Best points:
the vagueness and illdefined usuage of term like 'value'.
this claim you can adress these question based on evidence in a meaninfull 'non-scientific way'.
What i'd like to add:
This start-off statement that you HAVE to ask his 4 questions, and the assumption therefor you HAVE to have an answer.
***** yeah, with their constant demand to back up bs-claims... :-s
I find it strange even Cliffe seems to acknowledge the scientific methode. Up to the point it conflicts with his religious views... Then there s a sudden need for 'inuitive philosophy'
***** I think 'scientism' (as an accusation of close-mindedness) is used far to often and easily.
All is asked here is that if you, like Cliffe, want to have a philosophycal discussion, you have to do it properly. Define your terms, stay clear of ambigious and vague wording, stay on topic...
If Cliffe thinks he is an educator (rather then a preacher) he should at least make the effort to do it right. None of what he said would make it in a paper, neither scientific nor in philosophy-classes.
*****
- I agree that people need to understand the meaning of their words. That's why i think it's strange Cliffe couldn't decenlty define 'value' f.e. in a decent way.
I think it is because pretty much all def's of value are clear that they include a human action of judgement. So with that the argument does not hold anymore.
When pushed he shifts to 'intrisinc values'. Which, though less clearly defined, is a philosophical concept that is wildly critisised. And certainly not demostrable to exist. And it's actually no part of his christian view either (since they are not intrinsic, in and of themself, but attributed by a god). And so the discussion would shift again...
- "you clearly haven't taken many philosophy courses". I must confess i haven't. But i'm pretty sure from what i've read that decent philosphy also requires things like: properly define your terms and use them by that definition. If you make claims about reality, you should be able to demontrate them, etc.
- Well, a definition by someone like CSLewis is hardly impartial. The other one seems to come from Webster.. where you kindly took the second one and not the more general
"methods and attitudes typical of or attributed to the natural scientist".
On that topic you also missed out the opportunity to actually describe any other way that could make sensible predictions about reality or explain things in meaningfull terms.
Or to paraphrase Cliffe on 'how can you non-scientificly demonstrate something to exists". You can't scientificly demonstrate the inate value of life .. therefor it exists!" ;)
value isn't vague. it's only vague from a scientific perspective but that's the point. everything cannot be proven scientifically. Ask any honest person if they value their lives and the lives of others and you get a clear concise answer.
Rude it doesnt have to be 'scientific'. Just a coherent sentence to start the conversation from.
But yes, (pretty much) all people value their lives. That is the obvious way how things work: people value things. How does that demonstrate that the value comes from somewhere else? You litteraly describe it as a human action.
people in a coma are supposedly a drain to a materialist.
In reality people wait for people in coma's to wake up, because they love them.
They have enate worth , value and purpose.
+Ariel Most 'materialists' will agree that they aren't robots. All it takes is recognizing that emotions and experiences are fundamental to our nature and they, above all, matter to us. That they are not meaningless with a devine autohority telling us. That we can attribute meaning and value to things and that this matters.. not in a 'universal' way, but to us, as human beings.
P.G. Burgess
- that's why eveyrthing peope say is just an excuse. but they have no excuse, because it has been plain to see that everyone is created for a purpose.
Ariel well, to a lot of people it isn't plain to see.
I just wanted to inform you how someone of a different worldview might look at these issues, so you wouldn't have make wrong assumptions on their behalf.
P.G. Burgess
- There is a Bible verse which explains how God has made it easy to find Him.
Romans 1:19 - Acts 17:28
Ariel nnarrgh, the quote that stops any meaningfull conversation.. have a nice day
This guy's mind is closed. He is set on believing his own ways.
I enjoy listening to Cliffe even though I am an Atheist, well at the moment I am although that is always subject to change if I felt I had good reason, now, I'm not necessarily wanting to get into another 'is there a God or not?' debate although they're always interesting to have :) but what I would like to ask Christian believers is this, say for arguments sake I am wrong and there is a God, would God want me to say 'yes I believe' when I really mean I doubt, or would God rather I say 'I doubt' and mean I doubt?, I would have thought the latter myself and the latter is all I am doing, now I could do the first one but if I did I would be a hypocrite and I presume that God wouldn't want me to be a hypocrite?
You are rite in my opinion I don't think God would accept your doubting heart. He would know before you did if you did or did not believe in him. Here is the thing you have to ask yourself, can you believe in something that you can not see, touch, or audibly hear. I believe that just you asking questions about God will lead you to him. Faith is the big word here, can you put your faith in something you can't see. We can't see the wind but the wind blows none the less. I don't know you friend but I bet if you search your heart and be honest with yourself and look at yourself in the eye for a few minutes you can answer the question of wether or not there is a God or not.;-)
+John Mathis Thanks for your honest answer, I always appreciate that and I will be equally honest back and say that I believe the existence of a God of some form is a POSSIBILITY and one that has not been totally ruled although many discoveries in Science do certainly put a question mark on it.
What I can't honestly say at the moment is I am sure of it, this is why I often say to other believers that if there really is a God then the only one that could ever convince me beyond all reasonable doubt would be God himself, I am perfectly willing and open to change my mind and go from Agnostic Atheism to belief, this God would in theory have the power to show himself to me if he really wanted me to know for sure he was there.
So, I do unfortunately have to ask myself why he hasn't done this and apart from the answer 'because there is no God to show himself' I can't see any other reason why a being with such unlimited power and supposedly love for me wouldn't make more of a supernatural effort to show himself, apparently he does show himself to a select number, or so they claim.
Like the way he seemed to show himself to Saul on the Damascus Road back in the Bible days, it's a wonderful story and I just wish I could have that kind of dynamic revelation and calling too.
Then I'd really know there was a God and one who really wanted me as opposed to not even being sure if there is one and even if there is if he even cares whether I believe or not, that is my position at the moment, one other thing I will concede to Cliffe on, he is right, if there is no God and no life after death and if we evolved and all our lives are just the result of mindless evolutionary processes, then there really would be no ultimate meaning but I couldn't live that out, he is right, I don't think anyone could wake up in the morning and think 'oh well...I'm just the result of millions of years of evolutionary processes and everything is pointless but oh well...another day another dollar'... blah blah blah, that would be insane Lol.
We all need to believe this life has meaning otherwise why bother to wake up in the morning?, if I was 100% sure there was no God and no ultimate purpose I wouldn't bother, thanks.
Everyone has doubted at some point. Every time I have doubted in the past I have studied the bible and redeemed my faith. I'm to the point now that I understand that my bouts of doubt comes from me lacking understanding.
I agree! I also start to doubt when I am not studying enough.
If you don’t believe then what are you doubting? To doubt is to lack conviction or have uncertainty. You can’t have doubt if you don’t have an inkling of belief. So again, what are you doubting?
Rational male by rollo tomassi lol fr
Wow I can't deal with close minded intellectually dishonest people
This guy just throws little insults while he talks, calling the bible mythology. Luckily he is in a county that honors free speak and followers for Christ would never harm him. Imagine him trying that with some other violent religions.
He doesn't really know what value and purpose means?
+Adolf Sackey
Exactly, why ask someone to scientifically define something if you don't have a definition of it, Cliffe's questions are so often like this, poorly worded and if you don't challenge him like this guy did he gets away with poor arguments.
God created the laws our universe lives by. If this is the case then proving any laws of the universe were already set in motion. You can’t prove creation either way which is why faith ends up being important.
He wasn't even paying attention to the answers. Dude was looking at his foot and couldn't stop talking. Extremely disrespectful.
Where does that guy think these natural laws came from? Complex laws came by chance?
Don’t like to judge people but that guy was trippin’
Ignorance seems to breed arrogance
I would never spend time talking with close minded people who think they are their own god's! They fall into the category of people were Jesus said: I have not come to the healthy, but to the sick! You say you see, your sin remains!
Oh my goodness STOP TALKING KID. Jeez just LISTEN for a second.
Reading the nagative comments from the loving Christians reemphasizes why I don't believe. practice what you preach. Cliffe says points to a designer and assumes god.
You aren't very loving either, Christians don't wear their belief as a way to appear superior to you.
Why would i write "i love the kid" when all he did was resort to interruptions and arrogance.
You narcissistical atheists need to be humbled.
@13:38, this guy is acting like Ted Kaczynski.
This guy is being totally irrational. There’s no point to even have a godly conversation with this guy. It’s useless.
This is epitomizes discussions with godless people. No amount of evidence will change their mind. Ugh!
+nadoeloiskat Me too man, me too.
S bannoura Thank God!
+nadoeloiskat i want to know your testimony
+Jimmy Bone i want to know your testimony also. were you a naturalist or even a Jesus mythicist?
+nadoeloiskat wow. Amazing story. I wonder if people go on being agnostics or atheists because even after they got "a tap on the shoulder" from God while they were un believing like you did when you saw the vision of the light they still attribute it to a natural phenomenon? I dont know. Maybe they have yet to get that experience. Maybe that is the key an experience which is only granted to some people or maybe an experience granted to all people and they continue to ignore that vision or terrible feeling that they had. I had some experiences that I cannot naturally explain away.
@3:46, Can this guy scientifically prove what value is? 2nd He should quit school and see if he can get his money back and become a dog walker.
Science is not a system of beliefs. Its literally a tool of research.