Ranking the Best and Worst Ability Score Generation Methods in D&D
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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Rolling up a new character in D&D means generating ability scores. There are various methods for doing this: rolling dice, point buy, and standard array. Today we look at these and rank the best and worst ability score generation methods in Dungeons & Dragons, going over pros and cons of each.
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The difference between old school and new was actually a different philosophy altogether. Was your character an average person rising to the challenge (average around 63) or was your character an exceptional individual (72+). Some of the original setting were based on exceptional, like Forgotten Realms where many of the NPCs have ridiculously high ability scores (100+), even in 1st edition. Even Greyhawk had exceptional characters.
In my experience with the older editions, ability scores do not really make that much of a difference, except for exceptional strength. Otherwise, it usually comes down to how one plays their character. Higher scores can help but they just don't make as much of a difference as many believe.
Also, there is nothing stopping a player from just rolling a new character when they aren't happy with their ability scores. A DM should never force a player to play a character they aren't happy with.
I use Standard array for when a player rolls really bad for their scores, that way they have a decent PC and can still tweak their PC with Race and Class.
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This video was interesting. But I had a previous DM had an interesting couple of stipulations when doing 4d6 drop the lowest:
You roll 2 full sets of stats.
If each set of numbers does not contain at least 2 15's or a single 18, you throw the entire set out.
If either set has 2 or more 8's or below, you similarly throw the entire set out.
You also throw out the set if you somehow rolled a 3 for any number in a set.
Once you have 2 sets of numbers that fit the above requirements, you pick between the two sets and allocate them how you desire.
It generally causes slightly higher BSTs than normal.
In defense of Standard Array:
As the DM, you get to choose what that array actually is. This is highly useful for dictating the overall power level of your campaign. If you want to decide that your characters can't have bad scores, boom--lowest is 10. If you want a lower power campaign and ensure that your PCs have weaknesses, this means the players must prioritize their strengths and balance their weaknesses accordingly. Primarily, this is useful to keep characters *interesting* because there's nothing more boring than characters with no weaknesses and too many strengths. I would even consider the proposed one in the video to be quite generous, favoring a more harsh array instead, such as:
16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, then let the players add +1 to any 3 stats, but no stacking.
Strictly speaking, this is a mixed version between SA and PB, but mostly SA. Having played D&D and D&D style games for quite awhile, I've come to really appreciate lower power games a lot more than the higher power ones because when each +1 or +2 is comparatively a larger portion of the overall roll, *that* makes rolling during gameplay more exciting.
Aside from that, it's obviously fair to everyone and nobody can cheat their scores or just have a shit character due to bad luck--it's shit by design. =D
Standard-array is really just a simplified subset of point-buy.
I noticed that the first time I went through the book.
And because it has two odd numbers, works best for races with two +1 modifiers like half-elf and variant human. I’ve made several characters with point but only to realize I’d picked standard array numbers anyway.
Whenever I point buy, I use SA as my starting point so I don't have to remember all the math. Then I can buy and sell points til I'm satisfied
@@tomgartin I prefer rolling and messing with the types/number of dice (current game they rolled 6d20 rolls in order were there stats ) iv done 6d4 as well
@BlackMage I accidentally did once
I use a different dice roll concept:
2d6+6 no dropping, min is 8, max is 18. Avg stat could be 13.
Same. It's pretty nice.
Are PCs more balanced this way??
@@Tom-bb3fm I find they are
@@nikuotaku thanks I'll try it out
Yeah used to use the same method until 5E. Does it still hold up in this edition?
I personally prefer standard array since it allows for tertiary stats to have some impact. It also forces some creativity with the stat allocation when adding in the racial scores (traditional racials, not Tasha's method). Point buy is neat but it encourages people to abandon all but their two primary stats, leading to some polarized characters.
Yes very good points. Thank you
I don't like the point buy because it tends encourages min/max power builds. It makes 5e into even more of a "super hero" game set in a swords and sorcery world.
I think both standard and point buy work depending on the type of game you want to run and play.
(Dice rolling can work but I have found for campaigns it is too likely to lead to a variety of issues)
@@singledad1313 even with the cap of nothing over a 15 before racials?
@@seangilbert3561 you end up with a lot of players at 15-15-15-8-8-8
As an old school guy, I love rolling my stats. If I get low rolls I play it. I once had a character whos highest stat was 11, he became the warriors squire and torch barer. He cooked and did the crap work that the "Heroes" couldn't be bothered with. Then he ended up doing the ultimate sacrifice that save everyone and we had two players shed tears over his loss. It's all how you play. But I have about twenty years of gaming behind me so that helps.
Doing 3d6 in order back in the day, yielded a character with a 9 in charisma has his highest stat. The player "roleplayed" the low wis and int as the character just rushing into battle basically as a way to kill the character and rollup a new one.
To be fair it wouldn't be fun to play that character unless you love RP.
@@bigfattank101 Thing is, even if you get a raging hard-on every time someone says 'RP', I'm not sure how fun it would feel to be carried by a bunch of better characters all the time... especially if everything you do (roll-based) just sucks. Both a feeling of inadequacy of being inferior AND guilt of being a burden could potentially put a major damper on the 'fun' of playing a really handicapped character imo.
@@bigfattank101 back in the day, stats matter less in terms of game mechanics. The main benefit was Extra XP, but what really gave you an advantage was Magic Items.
@@ilfurlano1228 glad someone mentioned this. 3d6 for older games can't be compared to newer games as stats are done drastically different. BX for example 9 through 12 are no modifier. You need a 16 to get a +2 AND stats max at 18 not 20.
To get certain classes like ranger or paladin your stats had to be high enough. Under 3d6 method rolling a paladin would next to impossible. Higher your wisdom the more spells a cleric can cast. Intelligence affected how many spells a mage can know
Everyone always wants to roll, but then we have a few players with super powerful stats, and ones with weak stats. It doesn't matter how strong the players as a collective are, the DM can balance an encounter to fit to them, the only thing rolled stats actually do is make the player strength vary in comparison to eachother.
Yep, and this sucks.
Also, there is a point to be made about Fighter/Rogues that people aways forget. They are classes made to have better scores. And now you Fighter/Rogue with low rolls lost one of their "thing"s.
I have experienced something similar to this...
It was a bit demoralising.
This is a possibility but i also let everyone roll two sets, sometimes three, and pick the one they like most. Also we usually roll with a discord bot that also tells us the total of stats added together and i let them reroll any set that has less than 70 total as it is almost certainly a very sub par roll even if it has a songle 18 the rest of the stats would be horrendous
the thing is, that is the point. To have interesting and unique characters, and have it be exciting. D&D is supposed to be a simulated world. If you want more of a board game play 4e, but there is a reason people didn't like it. When you get born you also don't choose your stats, lol
@@cizeek9748 4e was not liked because it took 1 hour for a combat round of 10 creatures, not because it tried to be realistic, though that may have been a minor part of it.
Also that it's basically a new multiverse with little to no lore carrying over from the previous editions.
Dungeon Coach had an idea. You roll 4d6 drop lowest 5 times. You add the totals together and subtract from a max total, for example 72. That answer is the 6th stat number. His video explains it much better though, as well as provides ways to help if a player ends up with a super low number.
Did this with a group recently. Went really well. Everyone had usually 1-2 really good stat and 1 really bad stat, so everyone was around the same strength. They were all fairly strong, but we started at lv 5 and they got some extra boons as well. Only thing that it really changed was I got to use some more powerful enemies for them and make the last few encounters really deadly, but satisfying when they won.
Why not get dice happy? Roll 24d6 and drop the lowest 6? Then put the remaining 18 together as a dice buy?
what happens when you roll to low for the first 5. I might not be understanding this right but when I just tried this I got a total of 57 for the first 5 leaving an impossibly large stat for the 6th
@@ryancurtis1881 in that case, you lower your last stat to the ceiling (like 18) and any remaining points (say you had a 24 as your remainder) would be placed as you choose among your other stats. In this example where you had 24 remaining, then you'd get an 18, and 6 points to place among your other stats as you choose. In your case, with a 57 total, your last stat would be 72-57=15
In the case of rolling really well, then your final stat would be whatever floor you set (say 4) and you'd remove points from your other stats to equal 72. Both of these are edge cases and on average you'll have stats within 6-16 below 72 after the first 5 rolls
Just use point buy
I have been playing for 24 years, and I love watching your vids. I love getting the flashes of nostalgia and seeing new aspects to the different game that exists today. I don't agree with everything you say or feel about the game, but I don't even agree with MYSELF 100% of the time. That being said, I always admire your commitment to reminding people that the only 'right way' to play is to be having fun.
Awesome thank you so much. I'm happy to hear that the content has been useful. And I agree with you. It's rare that anyone agrees with anyone else on everything. I think the Confluence of ideas and just being exposed to different ideas is of overall benefit to our society. This applies to everything not just gaming of course. The more ideas that are floating around helps us to expand our thoughts and find better ways of doing things.
That's my philosophy at Monopoly, too. I'm not allowed to be the banker anymore.
I don’t particularly like the standard array given by the book. However modified standard arrays can be very useful for DM’s who want to set a certain power level.
Agreed 100 percent. I exclusively use a pre-generated array, either "heroic" stats or intentional "low stats", like having max a 14 to start with to make it more interesting.
@Minotaur of Malice Last one might be pretty OP with variant human or a triton(+1 to 3 stats) XD
@Minotaur of Malice and a free feat, sheeesh sounds like a dream to a minmaxer like me XD
It's good for a specific themed campaign too because you want only certain character types with certain minimums. We used a slightly tweaked version in the Holy Unbalanced Campaign, 1 Cleric and 5 Monks. Also in an Outcast Campaign where everyone was either a thief, or thief/something.
@Minotaur of Malice Why a free feat? Isn't that obviously just an extra stat point (or 2)?
I like standard array because it guarantees a balanced character that the player can improve as they go and see a tangible change as they do.
I can’t stand anything that’s not rolling dice (Point buy is definitely the worse tho like 27 feels like such a weird number and y does it take so much just to bring it to 15). I just feel like my character is too weak otherwise. Only being able to go up to 15 is lame. I’ve played as one character doing point buy and one doing standard array and both those characters I absolutely hated cause they felt insanely weak compared to the 15+ characters I’ve done using rolling (I don’t think point buy or standard array is balanced I think they are weak).Tho I like to make very unorthodox builds (like a ranged paladin) and that’s impossible to do with the weak stats u get from point buy or standard array.
Or that they say is too stupid to make good choices so they off them.
@@davidstratton696 you’re not guaranteed to get Better than point buy with rolling dice. I’ve had players become unhappy when they don’t have anything higher than a 13 while another player has multiple 18s. That player with lower rolls felt like he was a handicap in battles when compared to the other player. No one wants to feel useless in the group.
The consensus is that players are more powerful than the monsters and I’ve found that to be correct. So I just cannot sympathize with you feeling too weak with point buy.
@@trappedinamerica7740 And that’s why u make them Reroll 1’s. I find it unlikely they didn’t get anything above a 13 if your rerolling 1’s. Roll 4d6, Reroll 1’s and take the 3 highest. I have played over 20 characters and 2 were standard array and the other point buy and the rest I’ve rolled for (I’ve even made backup characters and characters just for the heck of it that I’ve never played that I rolled for which is around 30+ characters) and every single time I always get a 16 at least in one of my stats (most of the time more then one). And most of the time I end up getting 17 or 18 at in one stat. I can’t do this with point buy or standard array which I hate. And like I said I like to play very unorthodox builds that people might hear and think is stupid but I try and make them good and most of the time I succeed (like my ranged Paladin who never used divine smite cause u can’t do it with ranged attacks and yet I still had the most consistent dmg. I can’t do this with standard array or point buy.
And yes it makes u far too weak. I’ve never felt weaker then those 2 characters. Like for example one of
those characters had only 20 hp at lv 6 (he was a bard). I’ve never felt weaker and more pathetic in a fight. This wouldn’t have happened if I just rolled for stats. I could literally be one shot easily by these monsters u mentioned. I’m stronger then the monsters? I wish. The only way I feel at all viable in a fight is I roll for my stats. The only thing that’s not a guarantee is getting good stats if using point buy or standard array. I like feeling badass af not weak and pathetic af.
With point buy u should have 30 points (27 is so random) and u should be able to bring your stats at least to 16 and it should only cost 8 points to do so (1 point per point u put into it makes sense). I would actually like it if this is how it worked.
@@trappedinamerica7740 Like u say no one wants to feel useless in a group but that’s exactly how I feel with point but or standard array.
4d6 Drop lowest, assign where they like. Then calculate the PBE of the rolls.
If above point buy max, that's their stats.
If below point buy max, that's their stat baselines, and can spend their remaining PB points how they like.
Ah, interesting.
Oh this looks interesting!
So characters will either be standard or above standard. There's still a slight power gap, but that's a nice way to even the odds.
I really love the simplicity of standard array. It's not that I don't understand the other methods. I just like how it gets you past this stage of character creation really quickly to spend time more on concept and background. While standard array conceptually sounds like all the characters are "samey" I've never once sat at a table and thought everyone was the same, or even similar, because of standard array. The firbolg cleric, halfling rogue, and tiefling bard I play all feel sufficiently capable and distinct to me.
I can't remember where I heard it (I think it was Taking20), but the argument in favor of Standard Array is that it encourages the player to think about character flaws and how they'll express them in the game while still allowing them to have the strengths they originally wanted.
And it makes sense to me. Everyone thinks about how amazing their character is going to be at X or Y thing in roleplaying ("I'm big and strong" OR "I'm super wise"), but they rarely consider weaknesses or disadvantages outside of pure mechanics ("I rolled a 9 in STR" OR "I dumped INT").
Yes why I use it
I once had my players roll all their stats into one giant stat pool.
Then I let them talk to each other about who gets which numbers.
If you can convince them to do it like this i recommend it. It makes a group mentality. i make them chose classes after this.
you can sweeten the pot by taking the lowest roll out and making it 18.
Ok I really like that one ! Then I start think. What would you do if a pc die and have to make another caracter? If he roll crap or super good it not fair anymore ?
No one has died yet. But what you could do is roll 2 more sets of stats and add them to the pot. there will be more high number to chose from, but if someone's character dies. They have to use the left over numbers...
You just know fat cat rolls 4d4+4 for character creation. Lots of numbers means lots of math which we now know to be weaknesses of Luke.
6D4 drop lowest gang be like "I bought the whole stat range, I'm gonna use the whole stat range" lol. And I'm with them tbh. 4D4+4 is super OP compared to e.g. point buy
As someone who regularly rolls under average and rolls more nat1s than the rest of the group combined. I'm not fond of the 4D6 + drop method. It results in a 3-18 spread. 4D5 gives you a 5-20 spread.
And don't forget. It's supposed to be a power fantasy. If I wanted to be Mr. Regular Joe with 3's in every stat, I'd just go play real life. Lol.
I have the worst luck trying to roll for stats, 4d6 drop the lowest got me a 3 in one of my stats, that's right all 1s lol! Thankfully my dm let me use point buy instead, so now I personally just use point buy for all my characters, it's balanced and reliable.
Slap that bad boy in con and play a wizard or sorcerer. You'll be making a new character in no time
I have a similar curse, though I don't know if I've ever rolled a 3. For our current campaign, the DM had us roll 4d6 drop the lowest, in order; but also decided we would reroll, if we didn't get at least two rolls of a 15+ (because he likes high-powered campaigns). It took me 6 tries to get a valid set and the best I could do was a 16, with a 9 Con. I'm still surprised I survived to level 4 for that first ASI.
@@adamkaris Don't drop Con, drop strength if you aren't playing a melee build, if you are then drop intelligence.
I was introduced to point buy when I joined an Organized Play campaign in 3.5. Ever since I have used Point Buy in all my campaigns. It was especially useful in 4E, where the math was so broken that if you didn't have a 16 before adding your racial ability score bonuses, you would find monsters impossible to hit. In 5E, I prefer Point Buy because it puts players on an even footing, and gives their PCs room to grow in power.
The Standard Array forst showed up in 3.X in the DMG. It was intended for NPCs and Monsters, and was called the Standard Array to distinguish it from the Elite Array, meant for Boss Monsters and important NPCs.
The Elite Array was what we now call the Standard Array. The original standard array was weaker, I think 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8.
The main advantage of Standard Array is that it keeps things 'competitive', allowing all the players to be of relatively the same power level like they are in a fighting game.
So does point buy though
Standard array: page 13 of Players Handbook during explanation of the game. It's not labeled as such (part of a paragraph), but its in the first few pages of the book.
Standard array is great to build quick npc's and monsters on the fly or quickly right before the game session. It works for me in this way.
Except the time it takes to find it in the book
@@pinkliongaming8769 can't you remember six numbers?
@@balduinocarvalho5879 Just photocopy it onto the character sheets.
A big benefit if standard array is that it is easy to generate several characters simultaneously. You can just enter in the numbers without thinking to hard about what they need to be, which is useful if you are making characters for your players, or if you just want to make a bunch of characters to see how different class features interact.
And it really isn't that much less customisable than point buy, certainly not less than rolling. When I assign standard array scores, I still think about where I have racial bonuses, and where I'd need to apply ASIs to get the right balance between the stats.
If you wanted to you could even make your own array of score to use, just by using the point buy mechanics to get a balanced set, if you're not happy with the one provided.
Everything but standard array is just a bunch of shenanigans to try to beat statistics. Just place yer numbers and lets get to the Inn.
I personally really like standard array. Characters made with the array have clear strengths and weaknesses but are not min-maxed. It is impossible to achieve a maximum stat leaving room to grow. Players like to munchkin and the array largely shuts that down.
So the array shuts out whole types of play. Sounds bad
@@tomraineofmagigor3499 sometimes not giving the players what they think they want is really just saving them from themselves
@@andrewpeli9019 LMAO. Cause people can't be free to choose right? things have to be decided for them. People are too dumb to decide things for themselves. BTW the fact that you have such an aversion to min-maxing just means you don't understand it. You'll get rid of something just cause you don't understand what to do with it. As a DM min-maxed characters are easy to deal with. The hard ones to deal with are optimized ones and they don't fit into what's clearly in your idea of "min-maxed"
@@tomraineofmagigor3499 you're right it is very easy to deal with any character, especially min-maxed ones. I prefer more rounded characters because I didn't enjoy killing a min max sorc with 5 strength with a shadow. I would prefer to have characters at my table who can handle all things but not trivialize most things
But if I can't have at least 2 18s I can't have any fun, this is abuse
/s if it wasn't obvious
The only reason I can see for Standard Array over Point Buy: It somewhat evens out the playing field between players who know how to optimise characters for point buy versus new players who don't (e.g. they are often afraid to take a negative modifier in anything). But even then I could still see experienced players having the edge (choosing optimum races, aiming for even ability scores where it matters, keeping half feats in mind etc).
I'm a huge proponent of point buy personally, I'd rather my players feel like they have ownership over their character's flaws rather than feel like the dice has been unfair to them. Also I like how you alluded to point buy allowing for more character growth. A peak score of 17 feels right, as this prevents characters with a maxed out ability score until level 8. The first two tiers of play I think players should feel like exceptional individuals (something which marks them out as heroes) within the world, but they are not legendary in any respect until they have been on an adventure which elevates them to that level.
Standard Array is great for a large group one shot because it does dial all the players in to a very specific range.
This!
With custom Lineage 18 is possible at level 1 and thus 20 at level 4.
@@eshansingh1 That's true, although thankfully it's at a massive expense to the character. It means they can only have one score higher than a 15 which is a pretty rough start for a character. Spellcasters may be able to pull it off though.
I like point buy or standard array, because it erodes massive character balance differences, especially early on.
We've all seen the game where a character with a 13 in their best stat struggles for relevance.
Dungeon Coach Method: Roll 4d6 drop lowest for the first 5 stats, subtract the sum of those stats from 72 and assign the result to the 6th stat.
I just tried it to see. I got 8, 11, 11, 11, 10. So 21 for my last stat? I think I broke the system. (I used Roll20. I question it's RNG system sometimes)
And if you have more than that sum after 5 rolls? Do you take a negative value for your last score? Or do you get a "merciful" 1 to that stat?
(Luckily this problem will only occur in the luckiest ~0.25% of tries)
Tried this a few times, here's my favorite outcome: 13, 16, 12, 13, 15 which gives me a final stat of 3. I don't know if I'd wanna run that array haha
@@SeaSaltSong The way he does it for stats greater than 20 is you get the 20, then in the case of that one remaining point, you spend that point on any of the 5 stats you have already.
We're currently having fun with bingo rolling:
1) Players all roll typical 4d6 drop lowest and so does the DM until you have 6 sets of arrays
2) write each set in order, with new sets being below the old.
3) players assign themselves a number on a d4, d6, etc... And the DM rolls the die
4) The player whose number is rolled picks one of the sets in the same way you'd call a bingo: Horizontal, Vertical or Obliqual.
5) Repeat step 4 until all players have stats
So far it has worked wonders.
Never heard of that before but that sounds super interesting.
@@theDMLair Say one player rolls incredibly and the others not so much: Every player gets a chance to grab that 17 or 18 in one combination that the first player rolled so everyone can be competent even with poor luck!
How does that work after one or two picks? Do the later players HAVE to choose a vertical set after the first one does? Otherwise they'll have an incomplete set of numbers.
@@coranbaker6401 Sets can overlap.
I'm a DM that prefers the standard array.
->Rolling stats just makes me adjust the CR of encounters up or down to compensate. So the only real effect is making some of my characters (even ones that rolled decently) suck compared to the players that rolled amazingly well.
->Point buy is at least fair in outcome, but encourages min-maxing. Since so much is tied to your primary stat, any reasonably intelligent player will just max out their primary stat then dump everything else but constitution and *maybe* a dex or strength. I find this dull. Varied characters are way more fun.
->The standard array is both fair in outcome *and* discourages min-maxing. Basically perfect imo.
Amen to that
This for all the reasons.
I use Standard Array as well, however for some variation I added another Specialist Array 15, 15, 13, 11, 8, and 8, as I know my players like variety. After crunching math with ratial bonuses, I've found that this array does scew towards "power gaming". However with the two middle stats only being +1 and +0, and there being two -1 stats, it'll make the players I specifically DM for consider their options when building a Character.
Awesome thank you for laying out while you prefer standard array. I racked my brain and couldn't figure out why I had some folks like it but I know that there are people who like it. I do find though that I have to adjust encounters regardless of my players stats. There's so much more that comes into the equation such as their play style how often will they are with combat tactics and what classes they choose because not all classes and combos are created equal. So even if I were to use something like standard array I feel like I would be adjusting encounters anyway.
@@theDMLair That's fair. Yea, I end up having to adjust encounters on occasion as well. I guess I just prefer to adjust down (weaker PCs, weaker monsters) than up. But I can see the appeal of going epic if that's the kind of game you like.
...If only the CR system didn't have multiple personality disorder. :P
I am a DM and I use 4d6 rolling and standard array. At the start of a campaign, we roll for stats, but I have players make a backup character with standard array for fast character replacement.
I find that characters with "throwaway" stats are some of the most fun to play as because you tend to take more risks playing with that instead of your sacred half aasamir, half lizardman, half gnome, half demikin Paladin, fighter, wizard, cleric with 18s in intelligence, wisdom, charisma and dex who also made a pact with his dad, (yes the) Asmodeus and avenge his dead mother a long time ago, which totally explains why he's playing Lost Mine of Phandelver.
Standard is the best because it gives me: 1) full control without angering the DM, 2) the ability to pump out several PC in a short time, 3) that -1 gives flavor. The down side is that 8 can limit you if you want to Emulate an existing IP (Conan is impossible using Standard).
Conan is not a D&D character. Neither is Hercules or Thor. Being like one of them is a worthy goal, however.
Conan has a -1 in INT, easy.
@@insertphrasehere15
Conan is 18s across the board.
Gotta read the books.
@@vincejester7558 I always viewed characters like that as being the lvl 15-20 legendary heroes we all dream of playing, but our DM's won't let us because it's an actual nightmare to give a fair challenge at that point. You could reasonably remove all minuses by that time, coupled with magic items (Thor's belt of strength is a good example) and you could easily create a Conan or Thor-like character
I used the boosted standard array, introduced to me by the Dungeon Dudes: 17 15 13 12 10 8. I use it for my four players group. My players probably won't get past lvl 8 and it allows them to take feats instead of an ASI early on. Also some of my players are very competitive and I don't want them to have a grudge against another player who happened to roll very high. So I figured boosting the beginning stats and keeping it completely fair by using standard array is the best way to go. Also my players love fighting, so I'll challenge them with powerful homebrew monsters.
this the one I use as well works fine.
It's a good array when I do a single player party
I hate standard array, but I'm ok with theirs. It just feels a little more like hero stats. When you're not likely to get more than one stat boost in a campaign it sucks to never even have a chance to hit that +5.
@@davidmsmith268 have to use Standard when doing adventure league and have learnt to live with it. I also allow my party to change the racial bonus like dungeon dudes suggested.
This is the array we use for my D&D club, players can dip into feats which is a lot of fun :)
Here's a method I heard of, don't remember where:
Roll dice onto a 6x6 bingo board.
Have each player choose a row, colom or diagonal of in order stats.
That sounds like a bad way to go about it, because the first player's choice dictates what all remaining players are able to choose (if the first choice was a row, then everyone has to pick rows; same for columns), and each successive player has fewer options. If there are actually six players, that last player gets no choice at all. There are also only two possible diagonals, both of which bite into every row and column.
Avoid this method. ;)
@@johnhodges2760 There's nothing saying choices can't cross each other, just that two people can't choose the same set. If one person picks Column A, and another player picks Row 3, then they both get the 16 in the A3 spot, but their overall stat sets will still be different. And there's 38 possible options, so even the last player to pick won't get stuck with a junk set.
@@SystemofEleven Ah, of course. I was looking at it in an entirely different manner, obviously. Thanks for pointing that out.
Even so, while selections may not remove numbers from the board, since some sets will almost certainly be better than others, it largely comes down to what order the players get to choose.
And, sure, you could come up with ways to mitigate that, but ultimately, this just seems like a more complicated method of simply rolling your own dice.
@@johnhodges2760 THAT would depend on how you really see it and WHO exactly sets up the 6 x 6 array...
We would often just pick one of the Players when the GM didn't take charge at the onset of Session-0... BUT just as often, the GM already had an array ready, and a healthy detachment to how it would work through the group... and the game.
For replacement Characters (for those "gritty" games we'd occasionally indulge) new arrays could be built and agreed upon in advance... AND any time after the first session of "meeting up" wherever, anyone could come back and circle a choice of scores and then proceed to build a "spare PC" off the Table at will... As one array gets "used up" for whatever reasons (and some Players just enjoy building Characters) New ones can be fashioned together... AND since a given set of stat's was already "legit" in the Game once, so long as they didn't stay in exactly the same order, I've allowed "recycling"... just for the convenience and simplicity... In a game with a quicker pace and easier death, it can really help... even if it does kind of contribute to a "Life is cheap" atmosphere in-game.
You can get kind of the best of both worlds on the principle. Players get their variations in PC's and ultimately unique Characters, and the GM gets the comfort (relatively) that nobody gets hopelessly screwed nor makes out in bandit fashion... AND no cheating needs be worried about.
FOR the added ritual of the thing (excitement of contributing) we even occasionally took turns rolling dice and calling out scores around the Table... SO everybody had a say in some of the scores... ;o)
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 Who am I to say that you shouldn't do it that way? If your group has fun with it and finds it fair and interesting, good for you.
For my tastes, though, it seems like a lot more work for results that could similarly be gained by other simpler approaches.
The first time I used Point Buy I was rolling up an NPC. I fell in love with it immediately, especially since I always roll crappy starting stats if I roll.
10:00 I disagree. Good stats let you feel more comfortable picking up feats instead of an ASI. I feel this makes the game more interesting depending on the feats chosen.
Honestly this is how I feel. I haven't played much dnd (yet) but I love playing with character creation tools to make and save fun character ideas. The most exciting part of leveling is unlocking new spells, feats, and class features for me. Stat increases just make the character functional and point buy let's me reliably cap out my main stats asap so I can get to the fun feats or even splurge on an early half feat.
Lower/average starting stats sounds like it would be more fun if it didn't mean every asi needed to be spent on making my stats respectable.
Yep, if you feel forced to put your stats in your main stat, you won't reach for interesting feats or put points into stats other than your main stat.
You are definitely right. I have this warlock, and I had to throw my only good Stat at cha, and my not terrible Stat at dex... but it still left me at 8 str, 10 con, 10 int, 10 wisdom. And that has bitten me in the ass so hard. Spent one ASI to max cha, and now I am seeing that if I want them to be remotely playable, I will need to spend all my ASIs on Stat increases. We are at level 7, and 10 int and 10 wisdom has hurt the group so much already.
Agreed. Still kicking myself for picking stats over a feat in my current game
What is an ASI?
I use an improved standard array (8,10,12,13,15,17) because I noticed rolling is statistically better than point buy and regular standard array. I chose this because I wanted stats to be on par with average rolled stats, but the point buy system doesn’t allow you to raise any scores above 15, so that’s why I chose a custom array.
The main advantages of the Standard array are it's simple and easy to use, it gives the balance a balanced group of stats they can put anywhere they want, and they don't have to do as much math as the other methods. I also mostly use point buy now but that's because I use DnDBeyond exclusively to make characters and so I don't have to do the math.
One of the best methods for rolling stats I have ever heard was to have the players roll six stats and if they don't have at least two stats at or above a 15 then they re-roll all six again. I also like the idea of adding together what they rolled and if it doesn't average at least 65 or higher they can re-roll the stats.
2d6+6 sounds like an interesting way for rolling for the stats
This was the second video of your that I have watched. I like your delivery and style.
I almost exclusively use standard array, makes it so much easier to drop my characters into any game.
My group does 4d6 drop the lowest, but we do it 7 times and drop the lowest of that too. That way you're nearly guaranteed a strong character, which we enjoy. It's not for everyone but it does help avoid players feeling screwed by the dice
This is what we used to do ages ago in first edition. Made some ridiculously strong characters that way, but it kept them alive.
I use standard array but one suggested by dungeon dudes I find rolling you always get on prson whith god stats and one whe gets rubbish roles.
In my groups we usually use point buy because it gives the most flexibility without being unfair. I had some players join the game last minute as guests, who had never played before and who wanted to play something easy. For those players I usually ask them what they want to play and create a character for them. In those cases I use standard array because it is quick and simple and gets the job done.
For multiclassing... Point Buy is the only consistent way to go... Less the RNG Gods bless your dice rolls.
Especially with Feats adding extra Stat Points for the Variant Human and the Normal Human's +1 to all Stats... I just flavor the human to be some other race since both of these variants don't have anything else.
I use a variant of dungeon coach's custom method. roll 3d6 in order then add all the points together and whatever the difference is between that number and 72 is a pool of points that can be added to each stat as the player sees fit. 72 is the total ability points of the standard array. But you can only add a max of 3 to any 1 stat and a max starting stat is 16 unless you roll higher than that. This way it has randomness and everyone is largely equal with 72 points. Its convoluted but it really is a good mix of rolling and point buy.
4th edition included the additional method of non-standard arrays to mix things up a bit. It gives a sample of 15 options based on the 22-point buy method, but there are more you can calculate. One thing I did was take those 15, and add some of my own. One of them was another array from the standard point buy, two of them were weaker arrays with a few points removed, and the other two were arrays with a few points added. Then the players each rolled a d20 to see which array they got. On a 1 or 2 you got one of the slightly weaker arrays, and on a 19 or 20 you got one of the slightly stronger arrays. It wasn't much; enough to alter an ability bonus by 1 or 2 points. But it kept some of that dice excitement while still keeping the characters mostly in line, with the chance of a character with a slight advantage or disadvantage.
What most of my dnd groups do: we roll 2 arrays, if it's below 71 you reroll. Then, from there, you pick the array you favor most. You're supposed to have fun with your character!
Dungeon Coach had some interesting ideas about rolling stats
Best method I've seen is 4d6, drop lowest. And every player rolls an array in this way. Then, once everyone has rolled, have them vote on who's array will now be given to everyone. This lets everyone have an exciting roll, ensures fairness, and can be applied to backup characters. For extra fun, have the group roll one after the other so they can see each other's rolls, every 17 or 18 will excite them, even if it isn't their own.
Across a party they aren't gonna roll 4 awful arrays, at least one will be good.
I like this. I'm stealing it.
I've done similar. Have each player roll their stats (via whatever method I'm doing that game), then have the party vote on an array. This array is kept for future characters as well.
that's what we did for my current (almost finished) campain it did result into characters feeling fair but a bit "samey" like "oh you put that 9 into int?" but its fair for everyone. this time around I'll let everyone roll, calculate an average between the rolls; make everyone adjust up or down to meet the avarage. I hope this way we have people with balanced stats and people with clear strenghts and glaring weaknesses, but overall everyone is working with the same baseline
We just do two sets and you pick the lineup you like more.
Old school gamer here too. Been playing and GMing since 1980, so I relate completely to the old-school references. As I've watched D&D's editions progress, I've noticed that the better the starting stat scores, the higher you can raise your score with leveling up. The old-school rolling method (3d6, roll in order) existed in a version where there was no way of raising your stats without powerful, advanced magic (special, rare tomes or the Wish spell). Now we start high and end higher. Not a complaint; back with first edition I always wanted to be able to raise ability scores. Though most of us used the 4d6 method you described.
Some players just have notorious dice luck. I am the reason my GM instituted point-buy. I've rolled more sets of stats where every roll created a score below 12. But I do miss the excitement of rolling scores.
I saw a really neat way of rolling stats for "heroic" characters where you roll 2d6 + 6
This way you statistically are more likely to have slightly to very good stats; which I like for high power games and one shots.
Alternatively: hardcore mode - roll 6d20 in order for ridiculous stats
My preferred method is as follows: Roll 20d1 for each stat, down the line. No one ever complains about low stats in my games :P
Auction style:
Each player rolls 24d6 and records the numbers down on a public list. For each player, drop the 6 lowest numbers.
The number of players there are is the maximum priority points you can have.
Each player secretly writes down how many priority points they would like to spend for the highest number on the list. The player who spends the most gets the number, and the player with the lowest number of priority points gets 1 at the end of each round of auctioning, and multiple players with the lowest number of priority points each get 1 priority point.
Ties are broken by rolling d20s for each player that is tied, the highest d20 roll gets the number being auctioned off.
Pros: No player gets screwed over by bad rolls, only the group gets screwed over as a whole. (unless there is some really intimidating player there)
Cons: It takes a long time, perhaps as long as a Monopoly game takes to play.
I do like rolling. That way, when I get a 3 I can put it in intelligence to reflect my desire to roll.
But on a more serious note, when I run a high-power game, I'll have my players do the 4D6, but allow rerolls of 1s before dropping the lowest.
I've used the two following methods:
1) Mind and Body
- Roll 12d6 and drop the lowest 3. Take the remaining 9 and put them aside. Do it again. One set of 9 dice will become your "Mind" stats (Charisma, Wisdom, Int) in any combo you want. The other 9 become "Body" stats (Strength, Dex, Con).
You end up having one good stat in each area usually, and you end up being strong. Useful for "high power" campaigns and making my players feel good. Generally useful when doing short campaigns, 1-shots, and temporary characters.
2) Catch-up 4d6 (or 3d6 if you want)
- Roll the 4d6 method with "pick your array". The "Catch-Up" part is that you also track how many stats you actually get and, if you're below a certain amount, you gain 1 attribute point every level until you're not. This allows people to start at lower stat amounts from bad rolls, but to slowly catch up. If someone rolls above the breakpoint, they'll always be a little strong, but that's their reward.
For this, I use the "average" roll for it. So if you're doing 4d6 (drop 1), the average is 12.5 each, or 72.5 stats total. If a player ends up with less than that, they get a "catch up" point every level. For 3d6, it's 10.5 per stat, or 52.5 stats total. Same thing.
Great for ensuring those who roll poorly will have a chance to catch up. The game is a game of dice, they get to suffer some, but I don't want my players being sad for the entire campaign.
For the onesheet game we played last weekend I rolled up a ranger with wisdom score of 5. I played him out as a three hundreds y.o. elven noble who gives literally 0 fucks about everything because of his elderness xd
I had a lot of fun playing, so I can totally vouch for bad stats=fun characters xd
Glad you had a good time with that, though not everyone likes it. :)
Wizardry (the old video game as well as the TTRPGs based on it) had like a weird hybrid system where your base ability scores were determined by your race/species (basically the modifiers were baked in), then you rolled and the result was a set of points you could freely assign to any of the ability scores.
I quite like point buy - it gives players of an RPG the most flexibility in how they want to roleplay the character, which is kind of the point of the game.
My DM uses a very interesting method, based on an old article in Dragon magazine.
1. Roll stats in order, but you choose the order beforehand.
2. For your first stat, roll 9d6 and keep the three highest. Second stat, 8d6 keep 3. Third stat, 7d6 keep 3, and so on.
That way, you're more likely to get good numbers in your preferred stat, but it's certainly not guaranteed. And since you can't rearrange the stats once they're rolled, the dice gods can play tricks on you and there's not much you can do about it.
I use point buy and have players roll a d6 to add to their buying pool score, adding some excitement of rolling
That is quite cool!
I personally developed a far crueller version of manual rolls where, instead of rolling 4d6 and discarding the lowest value, you subtract the lowest value from the sum of the other values. So, the new highest value becomes 17 (6+6+6-1), and the new lowest value becomes 2 (1+1+1-1). I even went as far as plotting all of the values into a graph for both systems and discovered that not only does this shift the distribution curve to the left slightly, but it also flattens the curve and makes it more symmetrical, which means that your chances of rolling slightly below or above average stats are actually better than with the standard method. It also, rather pleasingly, makes 10 the most likely outcome, which makes sense given that 10 is meant to be, yknow, the average.
I tried introducing this to my group, upon which they all complained that it makes "bad" stats more likely, ignoring all of the prior maths and focusing on the fact that 18 was no longer possible. I no longer play with this group.
I like a house rule: every stat starts with 8, then for each stat, roll 1d10 and add together then place as preferred. You get scores between 9 and 18, which gives you just below average to excellent scores, but you still have that randomness of dice roll. The starting amount of 8 can be tweaked down to 7 or even 6 if 8 is found to generate too powerful of characters.
Bad rule is bad.
I have done the split 25 method before and my players really liked it. It allows them to roll dice but keeps their overall ability scores on the same power level (in this it is 75).
Each person rolls 4d6 drop the lowest 3 times. Anything below a 7 becomes a 7. Then they take the rolled numbers and subtract from 25 to get their other 3 ability scores.
I think this adds the randomness of rolling but also keeps the fairness and power scaling of point buy.
Eh. In our group we even rolled and have had one player ‘give’ some of their points to another who had underwhelming stats. Rolled can work, it depends on the GM and the players.
We did the same thing in my group XD
Best description of the pros of point buy I've heard.
I use the 4d6 drop the lowest, reroll 1's do this 7 times and keep the 6 highest, arrange into any order.
One interesting rolling method I've seen is the 6x6 grid method. You roll 4d6 drop the lowest for your 6 stats, and repeat 6 times for 6 sets, assorted in a grid. The player then picks one set either from left to right or top to bottom, BUT must take the stats in the order in which they appear. By the law of averages, you almost certain to get a set that you can use for any character, and party wide no player is going to end up with crappy stats. You may also trade you grid with another player, if on the off chance you don't get a stat array you need. It also has the upshot of making for characters that aren't always optimized the way you would normally would with other methods. So you can sometimes get odd characters, like strong wizards, or highly intelligent barbarians.
If forfills the needs of the players, balances out the averages of the party, and adds a little bit of quirkiness to characters.
Standard array means no-one gets screwed by the dice.
It also leads to cookie cutter characters but no-one got boned.
It only seems like a cookie cutter during that phase of character creation when you take ability scores. Once you stop looking at charcater sheets and get to the table, the differences among the characters shine and the similarities fade into the background. I used standard array and I don't feel like I keep making the same character over and over and I don't feel that the player characters at my table lack distinction.
Making all characters suck equally is not a solution.
@@fleetcenturion You presume there is a problem whereas I see none.
My new campaign I did this: 21d6 drop 3, use the remainder to put together 6 skills however you want (if you want to put 5 dice together to get an 18 that's cool but then you're stuck with a 4 somewhere else!) BUT once you have your array, you don't put them in your sheet, the DM collects them and puts them on a whiteboard and then everyone rolls a 20 to determine their draft order from which they go one at a time picking scores off the board (I did it snake style so whoever rolled highest also got the last pick in round 6).
I had a campaign for only 2 players. I wanted them to be strong because of how action economy works. Yet, they were against rolling attributes because they were affraid of bad rolls. But in the end I managed to make them get into it so much:
- 4d6 in whatever order.
- If you don't like the scores, you can try again, but you have to use the latest rolls.
- If it also fails, you can use the standard array.
They enjoyed it a lot, specially when they had to decide if going for the second try. They got all the exciting of rolling the dice without the fear of having an incompetent character.
It amuses me that you site "4d6, drop lowest" as a "powerful extreme."
I've played in games where it's 4d6, reroll 1s, 7 times, drop lowest.
One game was even reroll 1s and 2s 4 times, with an automatic 18 and 8... more than half the party dumped Intelligence, and then bought Headbands of Intellect though :-o
I used to like roll 24d6, and assign 3 dice to each stat...
But now I do a modified point-buy.
In one of my current games a player rolled her stats wrong (supposedly how a friend taught her to do it). We were using the 4d6 drop lowest method and she rolled 5d6 dropping the lowest 2 scores. She started out insanely more powerful than the rest of the party, then chose to play a bard so she has proficiency in every single skill. It really sucks actually because she always wants to play optimally, which ends up with her doing almost everything outside of combat.
24d6 assign 3 to each stat??? Now that sounds like fun for the dice goblins haha
My personal method is rolling 4d6k3, BUT the final sum of stats has to be between 70 and 80. It means that you get a similar amount of stats to point buy and standard array (both give you 75 or less), and nobody is too far from their peers in power
I've also been a fan of 2d6 per stat, then point buy (I've heard it called "hybrid stats" or similar names). For those who are indecisive between point buy and roll for stats
Absolutely hate standard array. Point buy is ok but I would allow up to 17. I'd personally rather roll and go with what drops, good or bad.
My main table uses the 6x6 array. We roll 4d6 drop the lowest and record them in a 6x6 grid and then choose either a column, a row, or the diagonal corner to corner rows. It usually gives us decent stats to work with and still keeps a fairly balanced game.
one thing worth mentioning is that point buy gives you the exact same number of ability score stats as standard array.
i usually use standard array, because if i use point buy, i'd go through a lot of hassle to end up with the same numbers.
unless you're making a meme build with like 3 8's and 3 15's.
standard array is just a nice well rounded character you can roll up quick and easy
16:50 Fun fact, the standard array is actually based on 4d6 drop lowest. It is the average of what you would roll from highest to lowest rounded down (except for 13, which is actually 12.96. Maybe they thought it was too close to 13 to round it 12. Plus you would have two ability scores with the same number. Anyway, rounding it down makes it so it is on average worse than rolling, but you also get. Also, it would cost 26 points to buy them, which makes me thing that the buy method was also based on the standard array, with you getting one more point to make up for the rounding errors.
Standard array is just a non-random way to get the average distribution of 4d6 drop lowest and not having to worry about buying stats. Plus, it forces the player to specialize and/or having at least one crappy stat, instead of having a jack of all trades character. It is certainly supper fast.
If you are curious, you can copy and paste the following code into the anydice website:
loop N over {1..6}{
output N@6d[highest 3 of 4d6]
}
Roll each stat 3d6. That is that stats score, make three stat blocks rolled this way, pick your favorite stat block. Tally the average of each player, read the back stories or get back stories.of each character, dm boost the stats of players with lowest scores to match highest average based off backstory. None in primary stats.
I give this option to my players, if they take it, they start with bonus items.
Other options. At session zero have each player in turn roll one set of 4d6 drop the lowest, until you have the 6 ability scores and then every player uses them, assigning as they wish to abilities. This can be fun as they tease each other about low rolls they have to deal with. OR: The DM can roll the ability scores and players assign them where they wish (done this a few times and they liked my high numbers)
I like good stats at low level because most games dont go long enough to see the power up of low stats.
I also like high stats so that feats can be taken for more interesting variants in build.
One that I came up with was everyone rolls 5d6 in order. But for each attribute, you record the bottom three and the top three from the roll. The bottom three represents the minimum starting value for the attribute, while the top three represent the maximum starting value. They then have 72 points to purchase attributes within those bounds. (plus some rules to cover edge cases). It combines the balance of point buy with the randomness of rolls.
I'd also like to have a game where the attributes start low, but advance more quickly for a sharper power curve. So maybe start at 64, but give out an extra 2 points of ability scores each level up to 5th (on top of those you get for your class).
A couple of points that I find interesting:
First, you can buy the standard array with the point-buy system, so you can give your players a choice between the two and it will be completely fair.
Second, if you roll 4d6-drop-lowest about a million times and use that to figure out what the standard array _should_ be, it comes out to [16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 9]. I didn't actually _do_ that of course; I wrote a computer program to do it for me.
In my groups I always use the 4d6, drop the lowest method, but to try to prevent the players from getting screwed too hard by the dice I let them reroll one number, but they have to commit to the new one.
We did rolled stats a fun way in a recent game I played (well, fairly recent... you know, pandemics and all).
We did 4D6, drop the lowest, but - Instead of one person rolling all of their own stats, each player, including the DM, rolled one stat, assigned it, and then passed the character sheet to the left around the table. Repeat 6 times, and all 5 players had a character, and there was one extra set of stats in the event that a PC died.
The players were allowed to take any two stats and swap them, (i.e. switch your WIS and CON scores for one another) and thus our characters were born. I ended up playing a Wizard with a relatively low INT (14), but he was a blast to play, and sort of forced me to choose some spells that didn't rely on the dice so much for effect.
Standard array is a form of point buy. If you examine the point buy system, you will see that you can easily attain the values in the standard array.
I like rolling 4d6 straight, but my order is slightly different. STR INT WIS DEX CON CHA. Like in 1st edition. However, that's because I don't start with a concept like "I only play fighters". I have ten classes to choose from (not including artificer) and that's too much choice. I let my rolls define my options. I also usually shore up the weakest stat by choosing the race that improves it.
I use the 4d6 drop method. In some groups, I house rule 3 of a kind (not 1s) as an 18. If a player rolls a crap set, I let them reroll all six. If it keeps up, I poll the other players if I should just give them a d4 ASI. As a DM, I like to keep the players involved in major decisions like that. Keeps them interested and invested.
I'm in a west marches campaign OVERLOADED (we literally have a bank with 2:1 items to players) with magic items. There are many super deadly encounters, so we use standard array as it simplifies creation for constantly rotating characters. Then we don't have to worry about cheating with point buy or dice. This is very specific, but works very well too
So with the dice rolls method I have two things I like to do with my players now.
- One is make it so that one of the rolls is replaced by an 8 if all numbers are 10 or higher.
- Second I like to generate a shared array for the players that they then assign to the ability they want. This is done by the players each rolling one or two numbers using the roll 4 drop the lowest method. Though some variation may also occur.
If my players really don't like having the same array for some reason I'll fall back on allowing reroll of the entire stat line if you roll less than the total of the standard array.
I like having characters be a bit more powerful stat wise early on and allowing them to take more feats and multiclassing to really have dynamic characters built around ideas.
I also have been playing with additional feats and other modifiers through various methods such as the Heroic Chronicle first seem in Adventurer's Guide to Wildemount (and the Forgotten Realms' version on D&D Beyond). Also more recently the feat at level 1 and 4 as seen with the Krynn UA. I've actually mixed both of those together in a game and those guys may just be some of the most overpowered 4th level characters I have ever seen but it fits for their story.
That was a very balanced critique of these methods. I especially like that you didn’t dismiss out of hand the old school 3d6 approach which younger players who base their experience solely off 5E tend to do.
One option I give my players is:
Socialist dice rolling = ((drop lowest of 3d6) + 4) * 6 ( * for each player). "group roll" where everyone rolls six times, but rather than assign the results to their attributes, they are pooled, listed from highest to lowest, and then distributed to the players in a serpentine order, where the point allocation reverses each round. For example, if there are 3 player characters (PCs), there are 18 total rolls, listed highest to lowest. Roll seperately who goes first. PC1 gets the highest, PC2 the 2nd, PC3 the 3rd, The order is then reversed with PC3 getting the 4th highest, PC2 the 5th, etc. until all scores are distributed, with PC1 receiving both the highest and the lowest dice roll. 16 is the highest allowed roll, and 6 is the lowest allowed roll.
Just adding my 2 cents into the discussion. I use the following method for rolling Stats. 2D6+6 twice, then 4D6
Sorry fat figured the keys. Then 4D6 7 times dropping the lowest Stat, twice. Then adding the Stat modifiers of all Stats rolled, dropping the lowest and the highest of the four rolled. This still gives some flexibility with what the players want, without having too high or too low Stats. Then arrange to taste. I have been doing this method for over a decade. The results seem to work with my group.
@@paulkearnes5268 interesting.. I was thinking using a hybrid of 3d6 and 4d6. Aka free arranging 3d6. Your idea sounds neat too!
One method I have been considering and will do the next time I start a campaign, is...
1) EVERYONE starts with a 11 on all stats. That signifies they are a step above the average person (10) to start.
2) Add in your racial/class modifiers (IF selecting classes before knowing scores) - Included class since I am not familiar with ALL classes and not sure if some provide additional mods.
3) Roll 6d6.
4) Associate each die result to a different Skill as you desire and either add or subtract (see below note) that result from the current Skill score.
NOTE:
> It seems simply enough, only 4 easy steps to do and allows players the fun of rolling dice.
> I feel this goes a bit quicker than rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest and Point Buy.
> Good idea for the DM or impartial person, as Luke says, to watch the die rolls.
> Subtraction Option in #4 Above: Though this option will probably be rarely used, a player that likes to have a low stat for role playing purposes and thinks it would be "fun" for them may select to do this for their character. For example: Under the Point Buy System, I purposefully gave my Drow Barbarian a 10 STR for Role Playing purposes in that area where many would make STR one of the best stats for a Barbarian.
> With the above system, no one will have a score lower than a 12 (unless chooses to) and at most an 18 or 19 to start, I believe, depending on their racial/class mods thus allowing for some powerful characters.
> It allows room for some growth of the character through the leveling processes.
Hope this inspires other ways of creating characters.
I have heard an interesting change for 4D6 drop the lowest that makes it more balanced: Assign a number all the Ability Scores should have combined, for example 72. You can change this depending on how strong the PCs should get. Now they roll as typical with the 4D6 drop the lowest until they have ability scores for all but one of them(what you could do is assign a floor which you can't roll below, for example 6, and a ceiling which you can't roll above, for example 16). Then, you calculate what is missing to get to that number you assigned earlier as the sum of the ability scores. If that is below the floor or above the ceiling, the difference has to be put into other scores.
Example:
Sum: 72
Floor: 6
Ceiling: 16
6(+2)+6+5=17 becomes 16 because of the ceiling
(1+)4+6+5=15
5+6+2(+2)=13
5+3+5(+2)=13
3(+2)+5+4=12
Now the difference between 72 and my ability scores is only 72-12-13-13-15-16=3, so to reach the floor for the last ability score, I need to subtract a total of 3 from the rolled ability scores.If I choose the odd ones to reduce, I end up with the following ability scores:
16, 14, 12, 12, 12, 6
I think it's really interesting because it is way more balanced, it is more comparable between players and it's adjustable to the type of game you want to play
The good thing about having a powerful PC that doesn't need to invest in stats anymore with the 4d6 drop the lowest method Is they can spend their ASIs on Feats and then further customize and make their characters functionally different from how their class would normally be.
I use this method: Roll 4d6 drop the lowest. If the total is less than 72 ( that is the number of points you get with a standard array) player gains as many points as they need to raise the character's total ability score points to that 72.
Those points can be added to any ability score, excluding the highest and the lowest stat rolled, up to 18.
Good video as always. We're old school in our play and use a variation of the second 'rolled dice' style. We do 4d6, drop the lowest, but we also re-roll ones, then assign as wanted. Most characters are going to have 2 or 3 high level scores with mid level the average. You could still end up with sub 10 scores, but those are not common. But again, my games are not pure 5e and are more deadly, so the players need all the help they can get.
My favorite way to roll up characters for fun is to randomly select race, and subrace, then roll the 3d6 stats. If no stat is 13 or higher, i roll all of em again.
Then, i build the character from there, explaining each stat and how they got into the class that best suits their stats.
It forces me to be more creative in my character design, and to use often weak characters with more dynamic personality to compensate for the weaker mechanical stuff
Since the 80's I have always given many options. Based upon new players, mediocre players, and experienced players I have/had options for them all. As a DM you either know your group or should be able to read them. You should be able to know who will not have a good game experience with bad stats, and who will excel from the challenge of low to average stats. Also, if you have characters start with lower stats, it gives you as the DM the opportunity to provide more joy and excitement from magic items that raise stats, gods, feats, training or books that raise stats etc. This is not as important for one shots or groups that never run long campaigns, but for long campaigns starting with lower stats can make for great satisfaction. After a year of character growth and multiple stat increases with players, they will feel more attached to their progression and possibly be excited for what they can do next with their stats.
Some of my new and older roll options:
Old -- Start with 6 in all stats - roll 2d6 or 1d12 (this is really good for new players and anyone is is just not happy without even stats (I am sure you know they type)
4d6 drop the lowest die (I have/can allow for three rolling sets, and pick the best set, this will be a group decision before rolling starts)
1d20 - this is usually only selected by very experienced players, as you can either get great stats, or you can completely fail here (try it out, roll like 6 sets...some will be amazing, but some will suck nuts). I allow 1's to be rerolled. I only know three people that are willing to use this...it screams..."ya feeling lucky today!"
Really, you can use anything, do not get hung up on stats...if stats ruin your game, something is wrong. Also, if must use stat buy crap, and you have a veteran who wants to roll, let them and if they have an amazing rolling session...that is normal. If one uses the argument that the people with good stats just start rolling for everything, that is more of a problem with your table and roleplaying, not stats. If you run into this, you may want to start directing rolls with suggestions to other people who should be doing it, and if one person is purposefully dominating the table, have a private conversation with that person.
There's also the Legendary Array for really high-power campaigns, turns out when you give your players 16-14-14-12-12-10, they make pretty strong characters
Acceptable option. Not for every occasion.
One rule I tried for the campaign I just started was 4 d4 treat the lowest as a 4, roll 5 stats and the last stat is 8. I let them roll two sets and choose the best or choose standard array.
With this method we don’t have anyone with super low stats all around because standard array is an option but if they have godly rolls they still have an 8 in a stat with a max of 16 (that they can put their +2 in so 18). It gives the love of rolling with the balance of standard array
Some Gm's force a negative score and as such will suggest point buy to assure that every Player has atleast an 8, which yes can Technically be canceled out by a +2 from your Race but that would leave the potential primary stats lower then the rest of the group.
Personally i am a big Fan of point buy as both a GM and player, because it ensures a somewhat even playing field for my Players, and maybe more importantly lets me come up with a Character first and Then create stats for them. Instead of having to create a Character for the stats.
I make a 6x6 grid, generating each number with the "4d6 drop the lowest" method, and then my players can pick any row, column, or diagonal, forwards or backwards for their stats, but has to keep them in order. I like it and my players seem to as well as everybody has access to the same highs and lows and there's enough variety that you can find a stat set that's at least okay for any build you want to run. Plus it dodges the risk of one character having really great scores and another having really low scores and a player getting sour over it.
For rolling 3d6 you could even have to pick your race prior to rolling, and only get to pick your class after. The logic being you choose what race you are, then are born and figure out how good you are for your race, then decide a career path based on your abilities. I don’t use that, but it’s good for very gritty and realistic PCs.