You compound guys are our kindred spirits. We are all working towards the same goal, which is to be an exceptional archer. I shoot recurve and primitive horse bow. And I knew of the shoulder, but after this, I decided to add a dimension: I purposely now push down towards the ground (i.e. before I bring the bow up. I have my string hand on the string, bow pointed down, arrow nocked. I push toward the ground with my bow arm to make help of my shoulder to settle low as I draw.. So, ur vid helped me.
This video is a good visual aid to what you said last night about drawing with my elbow down. Will refer to it as I work on changing my draw and getting the release elbow up. I might also be pulling too much weight.
It's possible on the draw weight. I see that very commonly. If you're unable to draw the way we talked about, you'll need to back down the draw weight. At first it'll be a new muscle group taking over and it will feel harder for sure.
Wow!! This video helped me tremendously. Made me realize I was over drawing putting everything out of alignment. My groupings improved right off the bat.
Hi I just added a homemade extender rod (2.5') to my hunting bow's 8" stabilizer, and similar V-BAR to. The aim is dramatically improved for a hunting bow which works better for my small frame.
Hello! Still have a question on shoulder alignment. While I understand the general idea of having a shoulder down and maximally stable, joint can be fixated in several positions, and it's unclear which one is correct. Shoulder and blade can be fixated closer to chest (front) or towards the back. Moving them back lowers shoulder more, but feels unnatural and under load shoulder still moves toward chest. Can you give advice on joint position?
Dear RC, does this method apply to Olympic recurve too? I mean stabilisation of the bow arm... My front arm tend to sway jsut on release and I get really inconsistent at times... Thanks in advance.
Parts of this can carry over but it's a little different when it comes to recurve. I set my body up for a natural point of aim with compound and recurve, the little I've shot recurve at least, and that always seems to work best for me. Opening and closing of the stance which rotates the hips and shoulders to keep you in the middle of the target. If you're not pulling straight and linear with a recurve, or compound, it'll pull you off the middle too. You might check to make sure you're going straight back with the release arm and not snapping at the shot to anticipate it.
Ok thanks I am still working on my bow arm and grip. I still haven't found a position yet that feels like it is locked in. I will keep working on it. Thanks again
How do you apply back tension to the bow arm? I read a randy ulmer article, and from what I understand, you are supposed to squeez you should blades together, but that seems to make the shot pull left. Are you using back tension on the bow arm?
Squeezing the shoulder blades together will make you hit left usually because it'll take the bow arm and pull it behind you. It also makes it really difficult to pull through a shot because you're not allowing yourself room to pull the release side scapula over towards the spine. You want to let the bow arm stay out and forward and focus on holding it up and steadier with the muscles underneath the armpit and the frontal deltoids. Flexing those muscles at full draw with help. Then you'll have room to increase the flex in the release side back muscles to continue to bring the arm back/around.
My left arm to shoulder joint felt pain at times. But it is especially pain when I am pulling out stubborn arrows from the board. Not sure if its my draw posture or I strained it while pulling arrows.
Great vid. Glad I subbed. Would like to see a vid on anchor points. Esp on short ata bows. I notice you use a kisser style anchor. I'm wanting to add one without putting pressure on my string. Look forward to more vids as we all learn something from each. Thanks bud. Still working on my grip also
Thanks for the sub!! If you haven't seen it yet, I just uploaded a video this week on tying in a kisser button. I also did a podcast recently with Hook and Arrow and I talked about setting up anchor points with shorter ATA bows. You can find it here: www.hook-arrow.com/podcast/ PC#20
Great video as always! Right now at full draw I'm getting a up and down ticking motion instead of a nice float. Do you have any ideas what I am doing wrong?
It's very possible the front shoulder is hunched up. I see that as a very common factor on vertical float. Depending on the movement up and down, it might not be very bad on the front shoulder. Even little adjustments can help you really lock the bow arm in place. It could also be loop height for your pulling point causing you to fight the aim a little bit. If you feel it settling up or down and you fighting it back to center over an over.
Hi, These vlogs your doing are really helpful. Can never get enough info :) Watching this one has made me wonder if I need to change my style slightly. Stance and alignment looks very similar to yours but I've always had a slight bend in my bow arm. I've always felt its more relaxed and takes out tension. But it does make me use my tricep probably too much. Once in a blue moon my bow arm is completely still and I could aim forever on the centre, I guess this is the objective. Could it be I need to straighten my arm more? Cheers from the UK, Steve.
Hi Steve, I'm glad you're liking the videos! Taking out as much muscle input as possible is the best route for most everyone to go. Having muscle influence means muscle repeatability is required to keep a consistent shot. Our muscles are always changing though, so you can see where that becomes an issue. Don't stress on the pin sitting dead still in the middle. That's an over aiming issue and one that's best to be avoided. You want to build a subconscious aiming system and build it around your shot timing for your natural float. I actually go over this and teach it in depth in my newest instructional video you can find here: vimeo.com/user48998158/videos Titled, "How to Shrink Your Groups & Raise Your Averages".
That makes sense to avoid using muscles directly. I'm going to work on that for sure. Thanks for the response and I'm gonna work my way through your vlogs now :)
Sounds like a draw length issue if I had to guess. Or a bow set up issue depending on form. I went over this with my newest Instructional Video on professional archer's form and the two types you see. vimeo.com/ondemand/proform/189412527
+Kalvin Lo honestly either one of those would be great. The HyperEdge would be good too. The Podium will be the biggest jump coming from a hunting set up, but the GTX cam will be milder and a good choice as well for draw length adjustments and feel.
hi, i tried both HE and podium, beside they are bigger in size, i dont feel any difference. i think my powermax will just work for me atm. thank you sir
I shoot a 3 arrow set , 40 to 50 times a day at different distances, And notice that I seem to , what fills like to me lean the top of the bow in and the bottom out to get my bubble level, I'm a right handed shooter , do you think a rear stabilizer will help this. The bow is a Hoyt Pro Defiant. My shoulders don't bother me. I've been shooting like this for 25+ yrs but I go nuts if I don't shoot at least an hour a day.
Sometimes that's coming too far down into the x ring to start with for drawing motion. It can also be a loss of pressure in the back end because there's not enough front weight on the bow/stabilizers to make you active in the shot.
Hello, I am in the market for a new bow and I am curious in your opinion which arm is more important for strength/stability. Reason I ask is I had surgery on my left shoulder in 2014. I still have some issues with it. I can shoot either hand I am left eye dominant but naturally right handed. I would go with a left handed bow but I feel I would have issues with the draw arm being the one I had surgery on it being the arm needed to draw the bow, especially the poundage I want to shoot. Thank you for your time
More stability in the bow arm is best. But, you'll have to be able to draw the weight. Depending on the injury, the muscles used and how the joint works, it could be better to have the injured side holding the bow or drawing the bow. The best way to know for sure is to contact the Dr. that did the surgery and talk things through with them. Let them know the motions involved in each side depending on the handedness of the bow and let them help you decide which would be a better choice.
If you're right handed then it's most likely you're pulling with the release arm too hard and pulling yourself off target or you're collapsing and being drawn right. You could also have a closed stance and the shoulders are aligning with the hips and causing you to rotate to the right.
It could for sure. If it's too long on DL you'll collapse from not being able to hold back on the release as easily. If it's too short then you can collapse on the front shoulder and it'll creep up.
I can work on that. I can build something for it, or attach the camera to a tree limb even. Hadn't thought of that, but it would have been a great way to illustrate what I was talking about in this video.
Yeah I think that would provide some really interesting video. I have been toying with the idea of buying a camera capable of doing over 1000 fps and getting some cool slow mo of the arrows in flight and coming off the bow. Sony has a $600 camera that does 1000 fps
I've been looking at that same camera! I want to use it for shots of the arrow rest and also of the cams to look at how they're moving on bows with high tears that won't go away vs. bows that shoot perfect bullet holes. There's lots of nerdy uses for it on bows haha
Man I know. It's gotten bad here. I unfortunately didn't notice them making this video. I'll probably re do it after they calm down and put it up. I've started doing mostly voice-overs lately to have better quality audio.
Yea, definitely sorry about that. The mic picked it up way more than I'd imagined. I'll probably end up re-recording this one at some point. I've been doing voice overs on some lately too to help out with this.
You compound guys are our kindred spirits. We are all working towards the same goal, which is to be an exceptional archer. I shoot recurve and primitive horse bow. And I knew of the shoulder, but after this, I decided to add a dimension: I purposely now push down towards the ground (i.e. before I bring the bow up. I have my string hand on the string, bow pointed down, arrow nocked. I push toward the ground with my bow arm to make help of my shoulder to settle low as I draw.. So, ur vid helped me.
I used the roof line in the background ... pretty level, great instruction.
Glad you liked it!
Really love your tips Rob as the smallest amount of tension can make so much of a difference.
Love your logic and calm approach.
Thank you very much for that, Barry!
Thanks for the tips really helped me out
This video is a good visual aid to what you said last night about drawing with my elbow down. Will refer to it as I work on changing my draw and getting the release elbow up. I might also be pulling too much weight.
It's possible on the draw weight. I see that very commonly. If you're unable to draw the way we talked about, you'll need to back down the draw weight. At first it'll be a new muscle group taking over and it will feel harder for sure.
Wow!! This video helped me tremendously. Made me realize I was over drawing putting everything out of alignment. My groupings improved right off the bat.
Great to hear, I'm glad this helped!
Great video , thank you.👍🏻
Thank you!
Hi I just added a homemade extender rod (2.5') to my hunting bow's 8" stabilizer, and similar V-BAR to. The aim is dramatically improved for a hunting bow which works better for my small frame.
Hello! Still have a question on shoulder alignment. While I understand the general idea of having a shoulder down and maximally stable, joint can be fixated in several positions, and it's unclear which one is correct. Shoulder and blade can be fixated closer to chest (front) or towards the back. Moving them back lowers shoulder more, but feels unnatural and under load shoulder still moves toward chest. Can you give advice on joint position?
Dear RC, does this method apply to Olympic recurve too? I mean stabilisation of the bow arm... My front arm tend to sway jsut on release and I get really inconsistent at times... Thanks in advance.
Parts of this can carry over but it's a little different when it comes to recurve. I set my body up for a natural point of aim with compound and recurve, the little I've shot recurve at least, and that always seems to work best for me. Opening and closing of the stance which rotates the hips and shoulders to keep you in the middle of the target. If you're not pulling straight and linear with a recurve, or compound, it'll pull you off the middle too. You might check to make sure you're going straight back with the release arm and not snapping at the shot to anticipate it.
I'd like to know how I can get in touch with the commentator giving all these instruction information videos.
Ok thanks I am still working on my bow arm and grip. I still haven't found a position yet that feels like it is locked in. I will keep working on it. Thanks again
You're welcome. Feel free to email me a photo or video too if you'd like for me to take a look at it. rcrchery@gmail.com
+rcrchery
Ok thanks I will do that tomorrow.
How do you apply back tension to the bow arm? I read a randy ulmer article, and from what I understand, you are supposed to squeez you should blades together, but that seems to make the shot pull left. Are you using back tension on the bow arm?
Squeezing the shoulder blades together will make you hit left usually because it'll take the bow arm and pull it behind you. It also makes it really difficult to pull through a shot because you're not allowing yourself room to pull the release side scapula over towards the spine. You want to let the bow arm stay out and forward and focus on holding it up and steadier with the muscles underneath the armpit and the frontal deltoids. Flexing those muscles at full draw with help. Then you'll have room to increase the flex in the release side back muscles to continue to bring the arm back/around.
Thank you
Thank you Robert. Will focus on this at practice
My left arm to shoulder joint felt pain at times.
But it is especially pain when I am pulling out stubborn arrows from the board.
Not sure if its my draw posture or I strained it while pulling arrows.
Very helpful tips.
Thank you!
Sniping's a good job mate.
Thank you!
Informational video, thank you. i really appreciate it!
Thank you, glad you like it!
new to bows. Thanks
Sir what exercise we can do to stable the bow hand because it go in left and right and up and down
this will definitely help when for nationals i am going from MS fixed pinds to MS Ope i
I'm glad it'll help out on the transition! You'll like going to the open class. Good luck!
Great vid. Glad I subbed. Would like to see a vid on anchor points. Esp on short ata bows. I notice you use a kisser style anchor. I'm wanting to add one without putting pressure on my string. Look forward to more vids as we all learn something from each. Thanks bud. Still working on my grip also
Thanks for the sub!! If you haven't seen it yet, I just uploaded a video this week on tying in a kisser button. I also did a podcast recently with Hook and Arrow and I talked about setting up anchor points with shorter ATA bows. You can find it here: www.hook-arrow.com/podcast/ PC#20
A very good video!
Thank you!
Great video as always! Right now at full draw I'm getting a up and down ticking motion instead of a nice float. Do you have any ideas what I am doing wrong?
It's very possible the front shoulder is hunched up. I see that as a very common factor on vertical float. Depending on the movement up and down, it might not be very bad on the front shoulder. Even little adjustments can help you really lock the bow arm in place. It could also be loop height for your pulling point causing you to fight the aim a little bit. If you feel it settling up or down and you fighting it back to center over an over.
Hi, These vlogs your doing are really helpful. Can never get enough info :)
Watching this one has made me wonder if I need to change my style slightly.
Stance and alignment looks very similar to yours but I've always had a slight bend in my bow arm.
I've always felt its more relaxed and takes out tension. But it does make me use my tricep probably too much.
Once in a blue moon my bow arm is completely still and I could aim forever on the centre, I guess this is the objective. Could it be I need to straighten my arm more?
Cheers from the UK, Steve.
Hi Steve, I'm glad you're liking the videos! Taking out as much muscle input as possible is the best route for most everyone to go. Having muscle influence means muscle repeatability is required to keep a consistent shot. Our muscles are always changing though, so you can see where that becomes an issue. Don't stress on the pin sitting dead still in the middle. That's an over aiming issue and one that's best to be avoided. You want to build a subconscious aiming system and build it around your shot timing for your natural float. I actually go over this and teach it in depth in my newest instructional video you can find here: vimeo.com/user48998158/videos Titled, "How to Shrink Your Groups & Raise Your Averages".
That makes sense to avoid using muscles directly. I'm going to work on that for sure. Thanks for the response and I'm gonna work my way through your vlogs now :)
Thanks great tip will work on that. By the way what model Hoyt is that thanks
It's a Podium
Thank you
I need to work on my bow arm, my shoulder gets tired after a few shots
Sounds like a draw length issue if I had to guess. Or a bow set up issue depending on form. I went over this with my newest Instructional Video on professional archer's form and the two types you see. vimeo.com/ondemand/proform/189412527
@@rcrchery what issue do you think it is if your bow arm feels like it has too much pressure on it/shaky/elbow feels like it's getting strained?
@@michaeledwards7668 definitely sounds like draw lenght
I’ve been working on a lot of things for Along time and I cannotttttt get rid of this holding low problem
Jason Nester proberbly target panic
can u tell me how to improve body position when your body is bending back
Towards the end of this video I go over some helpful tips. ruclips.net/user/edit?o=U&video_id=pkJDXOdeVGc
My bow arm gets shaky after a few shots what should I do .
It could be that you're not aligned properly, draw length is too long/short, or that you're bow weighs too much for you currently.
What was the previous video on form?
FYI, it was a torn labrum O had repaired in my left shoulder
what bow do you recommend for a beginner into targeting?
Do you have any dealers near you? What brands if you do?
+rcrchery yes, I was looking at the hoyt podium gtx, and pse xpression, look cool, but never shot either one
+Kalvin Lo honestly either one of those would be great. The HyperEdge would be good too. The Podium will be the biggest jump coming from a hunting set up, but the GTX cam will be milder and a good choice as well for draw length adjustments and feel.
hi, i tried both HE and podium, beside they are bigger in size, i dont feel any difference. i think my powermax will just work for me atm. thank you sir
Been practicing last few days. And today I shot maybe 10 shots. And my left shoulder is THROBBING
dylan scronce probably to much weight
I shoot a 3 arrow set , 40 to 50 times a day at different distances,
And notice that I seem to , what fills like to me lean the top of the bow in and the bottom out to get my bubble level, I'm a right handed shooter , do you think a rear stabilizer will help this. The bow is a Hoyt Pro Defiant. My shoulders don't bother me. I've been shooting like this for 25+ yrs but I go nuts if I don't shoot at least an hour a day.
Problem I have at full draw is I’ll come down onto x ring then my bow arm slowly keeps dropping takes every ounce of strength to hold it up
Sometimes that's coming too far down into the x ring to start with for drawing motion. It can also be a loss of pressure in the back end because there's not enough front weight on the bow/stabilizers to make you active in the shot.
rcrchery I’ve had more front weight on my bar and that only made it even harder to hold up
Could you please add captions? Christ on a crusafix
please talk about the bow is this the new style??
This bow is the Hoyt Prevail. Looking back through the channel you can find a few videos reviewing this bow.
Hello, I am in the market for a new bow and I am curious in your opinion which arm is more important for strength/stability. Reason I ask is I had surgery on my left shoulder in 2014. I still have some issues with it. I can shoot either hand I am left eye dominant but naturally right handed. I would go with a left handed bow but I feel I would have issues with the draw arm being the one I had surgery on it being the arm needed to draw the bow, especially the poundage I want to shoot. Thank you for your time
More stability in the bow arm is best. But, you'll have to be able to draw the weight. Depending on the injury, the muscles used and how the joint works, it could be better to have the injured side holding the bow or drawing the bow. The best way to know for sure is to contact the Dr. that did the surgery and talk things through with them. Let them know the motions involved in each side depending on the handedness of the bow and let them help you decide which would be a better choice.
Thanks a lot for the reply. Ill have to look at a few more things before I make my mind up.
Thank you
If you turn on community contributions, I'll add type up the subtitles.
How do you do thag cool spin you did with the arrow at 7:50
ruclips.net/user/edit?o=U&video_id=HWhh50Go0kw
Whoa. Is that your neighbor's kid playground right behind your target at 0:40?
Mine from when I was a kid. Still standing, although leaning some.
What causes right handed Archer to push shot to the right?
If you're right handed then it's most likely you're pulling with the release arm too hard and pulling yourself off target or you're collapsing and being drawn right. You could also have a closed stance and the shoulders are aligning with the hips and causing you to rotate to the right.
@@rcrchery thank you, will get it fixed.
Could this be caused by too long or short draw length? Like your site. Thanks again.
It could for sure. If it's too long on DL you'll collapse from not being able to hold back on the release as easily. If it's too short then you can collapse on the front shoulder and it'll creep up.
@@rcrchery thanks again. Appreciate your knowledge and assistance.
It would be cool to see a view from above to see how you are lined up. Yes, I am not sure how you do that with the camera either.
I can work on that. I can build something for it, or attach the camera to a tree limb even. Hadn't thought of that, but it would have been a great way to illustrate what I was talking about in this video.
That is true. I guess a tree branch may work. It would certainly be interesting view
I've really wanted a drone with a camera haha I'd need someone that could fly it too, but I think it could be fun.
Yeah I think that would provide some really interesting video. I have been toying with the idea of buying a camera capable of doing over 1000 fps and getting some cool slow mo of the arrows in flight and coming off the bow. Sony has a $600 camera that does 1000 fps
I've been looking at that same camera! I want to use it for shots of the arrow rest and also of the cams to look at how they're moving on bows with high tears that won't go away vs. bows that shoot perfect bullet holes. There's lots of nerdy uses for it on bows haha
I'm sure you have great information to share, but the background noise triggers my tinnitus. Cicadas I presume?
Yes it is. I've gone to a lav mic since this and it's helped a lot.
Damn Cicada's !!
Man I know. It's gotten bad here. I unfortunately didn't notice them making this video. I'll probably re do it after they calm down and put it up. I've started doing mostly voice-overs lately to have better quality audio.
Couldn’t find u Instagram
I'm sure that would have been a good video, but I simply couldn't deal with the background noise
Watch this video instead: ruclips.net/user/edit?o=U&video_id=bupCwFEftQY
This looks like a useful video but the bird and insect(?) noise in the background is TERRIBLE! Can't bare it any longer.
Yea, definitely sorry about that. The mic picked it up way more than I'd imagined. I'll probably end up re-recording this one at some point. I've been doing voice overs on some lately too to help out with this.