I like to imagine that in Age of Sigmar, Ulric's retired in Azyr and sits around like a grandfather, either shit-talking Sigmar for not getting out there and fighting Chaos hand-to-hand like a real warrior or screaming "THAT'S MY BOY" whenever Sigmar does anything good.
I like this too, but it would seem far more likely that Ulric just decided to not care about the world after the endtimes (writers didn't care about him)
"how are we going to deal with chaos?" big E: 1 billion word essay that basically sums down to "break into eldar webway" ulric/sigmar: mouse 1 + hammertime
😄...what indeed? My fellow disciple said famously in 1981 "we've nothing left but faith". I think that's because back then, just like now, price increases have taken everything else.
Morr is so cool. Morrslieb is called that because Morr is said to have destroyed one of the Chaos gates and thus created the dark moon, saving the world in the process.
@@letendreelliott8778he has several “Good” aspects in AOS. Bal-Nagash, the Black Child, is one of them. He’s a child formed of black mist who visits mothers and children on their deathbeds to grant them comfort before their passings. We meet him in soul wars when Nagash drops in on him to check his progress, and finds that he’s currently comforting an expectant mother who just gave birth, but is dying of the plague alongside her child. I choose to believe that Bal-Nagash, as the compassionate part of Nagash, granted the woman a few more precious seconds of life to hold her baby for the first, and last, time. You’d expect something like that from Sigmar, or Allarielle, but nah. Nagash is the one who holds the hand of the trembling elder as he draws his final breath, the one who embraces the weeping mother as the body of her child is laid to rest, the one who points the way to peace while other gods focus simply on their living acolytes.
Neat fact: in the Empire there’s some humans who worship Khaine. They do so mainly as assassins and they’re basically the Warhammer version of the Dark Brotherhood.
They do it under the same name or they have their own version like in Elder Scrolls? With the shared gods between the races having their own names and subtle and not so subtle differences depending of the POV of each race.
@@g.sergiusfidenas6650 There are some cases where the humans worship elf-like gods under different names. Mannan->Mathlann, Rhya->Isha, etc. but in Khaine’s case it’s the actual elven god. Now they do have some small differences in perception of him, but on the fundamental level it’s the same god.
There’s a blink and you’ll miss it reference to Morr in AoS. However, it’s as an aspect of Nagash called Nagash-Morr. So either Morr got eaten during the End Times as previously stated, or he actually made it to the Mortal Realms only to fall when Nagash was being himself… again. Either way, Nagash-Morr is described as studious, dutiful, and even somewhat fair as he catalogues and protects the dead. Which is probably the only time anyone in either setting said anything remotely nice about Nagash in any way, shape, or form. The reason I bring all this up is to prove what a cool guy Morr is/was. He was so level headed that he made even a relentless d-bag like Nagash chill the f out, even if only partially.
I can just imagine that if Ulric and the other Old Gods did meet Grimnir while fighting daemons, it was probably by complete accident after Grimnir slayer leaped into a Bloodthirster right next to them and they just had a momentary pause to do the confused blinking gif at each other.
Humans be like "WE HAVE OUR OWN GODS!!!" and then have some of their oldest be called "Ishernos" This post was made by the Elven cult of Isha and Kurnous.
Ironically enough, the real life the elves didn't have their own pantheon until a while after 40k was created. So the elves actually copied the humans.
I'd never ever feel bored whenever the gods in Warhammer fantasy were mentioned, in fact it was not as overwhelmed as 40k (cough *imperium, eldar and chaos* cough). because the gods in fantasy had their own jobs/specialty and had their own ways to interact.
@@MrManueldxalso the fact that due to the vast majority of religion is made of just bland factions(except Orks because you know they have the raddest headcanon for their gods and the necrons) Take the fact Big E was a dumbass and killed the competition for the chaos gods so they could simply tell you to join instead of giving a very good contract-deal detailing why and what you get worshipping them
@DogseatDogs I like how you take it so personally when a comment makes a comparison between WHF and 40K, and then go on a tangent. Might want to get that stick up your ass
On the note of The Doom of Kavzar, in an AoS book, Skaven Battletome I think, the Tower of Kavzar is named dropped as where the Council of Thirteen meet.
It's also referenced in one of Thanquol's books where he talks about rumors that the great tower at the hearth of Skavenblight was actually made by humans and dwarfs, a rumor mostly considered heresy and slander, but Thanquol can see traces of their architecture in what little remains of it.
After watching the video about narrating skaven lore and The Doom of Kavzar, and seeing Skavenblight reeeeeallyup close in TW:WH 2 and 3, knowing that GW gives the last okay… the fact that the model of the Skaven capital had a screaming bell at the top of a very tall tower, alongside it’s a very dark swamp, made me head cannon that Skavenblight was Kavzar.
Look. Do I have to tell y'all to go read the ACOUP blog posts on ancient religion? (Not a 'read a book' putdown, either; they're written by a fantasy enjoying history PhD and can serve as very good primers for How To Magic In Historically-Inspired Fantasy. More people should read 'em, is what I'm saying.) Extended aside notwithstanding, as I understand it a certain degree of syncretism and cultural diffusion of pantheons is expected for cultures living in close proximity for extended periods.
It's insane how night and day gods are in Fantasy compared to 40K. Like, Fantasy asctually has rich lore, variety and complexity when it comes to it's deities and their followers, meanwhile 40K despite it's larger scale has legit next to nothing in comparison. Like, even the main 4 Chaos Gods have been stripped of much of their complexity and other attributes/charecterization when compared to their Fantasy counterparts (and the less it's told about the Eldar pantheon the better).
@DogseatDogs Makes more money ≠ Better quality/lore. By the same logic the Minions are a better movies than anything Miyazaki has ever made because it made way more in the box office. That logic is beyond flawed.
It's funny that despite the fact Ulric's been around since the literal birth of Warhammer lore in 3e, the only time we got the Warrior Priest of Ulric as a Hero unit in the Empire Army was in 6e - first in White Dwarf in 2006, then in the Storm of Chaos book. I mean, okay, it wasn't the best Hero; it was literally the original 6e Warrior Priest of Sigmar with the prayers swapped out for prayers that can be used to "grant a unit Immune to Psychology", "grant a unit +d3 inches when charging", "do a S4 hit to all enemies in base contact with the priest" and "inflict a -1 to hit debuff on an enemy unit", which are of somewhat questionable utility compared to the Sigmarite priest's prayers, but they could have tried giving them some better prayers in 7e and 8e!
Ursun will be back in AOS one day and he shall prove the great beast he is You know what, he may be back already, there is already a bear like god-being called Ursricht venerated by some stormcast
I love Morr. In a lot of fiction, death gods are often depicted as malevolent entities, and Morr is just a neutral entity. Any work that shows Death or the personification of as neutral, or even benevolent and kind are great in my opinion, and I love the whole "guarding the dead" thing Morr's priests do.
I always hold Morr close to my hearth. My very first character in Warhammer Fantasy RPG was his acolyte. His name was Gaori from one of characters form anime Slayers. I was a wierd kid. But now I'm Myrmidia's devouted simp.
the children of Ulric also appear in the black plague trilogy in which they are depicted as cursed beings and are said to be enemies of the ulrician beliefs
That last line basically gave me a concussion. Id say I hope you're proud of yourself, but I know you are... But besides that, love the video. Eagerly await the rest of this mini-series!
I like the old gods like Taal and Morr instead of all gods being chaos gods, emp or xenos gods I like how fantasy has whole pantheons for almost every faction allows me to scream MORRS SYCTHE CLAIMS YOU or SUFFER ULRICS WARTH BEAST
Fun fact - Morr is strongly implied to still be "alive" in AoS, as there's a Free City in Shyish that are described as worshipping a benevolent death god called "Morrda" that looks like a raven and helps ensure his followers pass on peacefully & aren't captured/controlled by Nagash's sorcery. In general, I'm hoping more gods - both original (like the King of Cats or whatever his name is) and from Fantasy - start to appear in AoS. I also like from an anthropological perspective, so many of the various Fantasy gods are implied to be the same across different pantheons, just under different names (i.e., Mathlann, the Elven god of the sea, and Manann, the Empire's god of the sea, are all but spelled out to be the same person), as it reminds me of how many different pantheons share a "common ancestor" in the proto-Indo-European pantheon. It's a great bit of worldbuilding _and_ clever writing on behalf of Games Workshop's writers. Great video as always, man! Can't wait for you to do a video on Ursun!
current status of the old world gods so far Empire gods Ulric-->dead Taal-->Still worship in the realm of ghur Rhya-->Unknown but if Taal still worship then i'm pretty sure she still around Morr--> Is back and still around by the new name Morrda Shallya-->Still stuck in Nurgle mansion as fantasy/AOS isha Myrmida-->Still around worshiped by Hysh human & even some Stormcast (new name Mirmdh) Mannan-->if he Mathlann then he got devoured by slaanesh Verna-->unknown Ranald-->Still worship in Shyish Kislev gods Ursen--->Unknown depending what the TTW canon route but is still remember and a city call Ursengrod in ghur Dwarf Griminir-->Shatter into various Grungi-->around drinking bugman with Sigmar and forging weapons and armor for him Valaya-->went from dead to MIA Gazul--> eaten by Nagash but shut the gates to the dwarven afterlife before nagash got in Elves Isha--> Reincarnated to Alarielle Kurnous-->Reincarnated to Kurnoth Khaine-->shatter to only a iron heart in Morathi possession Lileath/Lady of the lake-->dead Bunch of the others like Asuryan, Morai-heg, Loec/Cegorach ect was devoured by slaanesh but as of recently shards has escape She who Thirst stomach and is currently seeking host to reincarnate ogres Great Maw-->sort worship as it now an aspect of Gorkamorka call the Gulping god but the original worship of the real maw is still around but is considered heretical by the other Mawtribes Fire Mouth--->dead? like it's a volcano there nothing really that special it flooded the ogre kingdom in the ET
@@brandonlyon730 Is definitely around. infact we got like trusted sources that Chaos Dwarfs will be coming to AOS 4 edition at some point as of Hashut mention so far AOS being continuing that tradition of burying the lead of his true nature as he describe sometimes as a minor chaos god, sometimes a demon god to evil dwarf god to even a demon prince. There even some lore about how the Fyreslayer claim that one of their sacred grimnir flames was stolen and infused into Hashut and his hellish forges
@@chozer1 Cathay Dragons as of yet nothing due being created for TTW3 so they're like very new to the lore and we still haven't lear what exactly the dragon emperor "master plan against chaos" is about maybe they make it over but as of yet they still haven't made it to tabletop in the old world
@@chozer1 The Celestial Dragon Emperor was apparently only really okay with his human subjects venerating (but not worshipping) their ancestors and not worhsipping him and his wife or anything else, so there technically aren't really Cathayan gods as a result. Though Yuan Bo also apparently still wrote some laws involving praying to the Celestial Dragon Emperor and the Moon Empress, so they might have become gods eventually? Either way, neither of them have shown up in AoS since essentially all of modern Cathay was created for TTW3 which came out years after AoS started.
The Cult of Taal did kick off the time of three emperors. And this may be my massive Taal Bias showing, but if GW pulled out Ottila and gave her a a bunch of Griffons I bet that she could eclipse Daenarys easily.
15:51 Funnily enough, this is a reference to the Rime of the Ancient Mariner, a late 18th-century major poem by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, which referenced the somewhat popular superstition of the time that Albatrosses were the souls of lost sailors, so killing them would bring bad luck, and popularized this niche superstition held inconsistently by sailors throughout history into popular culture, so it kind of is a genuine superstition held by medieval sailors.
Ulric is so badass that his worshipper became a god and his worshiper's worshiper became the one of chaos' fiercest foes. Still, Ptra's worshipper is Settra, so its a fierce battle for the top spot.
I was playing the beta of the first Vermintide, knowing nothing about Warhammer Fantasy (was firmly a 40k guy), and it was Kruber mentioning Taal that got me onto Lexicanum wiki to see what a "Taal" was, and lo and behold, within a week I was WHFB pilled and writing a fan fiction about a Sewer Jack lmao
I think Pancreas missed a bit of the nuance regarding Rhya. WFRP 4e says many scholars believe her worship is dying because she doesn't have great temples or holy books, and that "Her many cultists do nothing to contradict such talk". The message there isn't that her cult is dying or dead as those scholars believe, it's that she's a VERY popular goddess whose worship is out in the countless villages and farmsteads of the Empire and beyond, not the cities where the especially stuffy scholars who've never seen a peasant before write their theses. She's the goddess of several important spheres, one of them agriculture, and three quarters of the Empire are farmers. Her cult is enormous and very important, even without big temples or holy books, same as it's been for millennia. Three extra little fun facts about Rhya: 1. The Cult of Taal and Rhya as a single organisation only exists in the eastern Empire. Elsewhere, they're two separate cults. She's treated with utmost respect in the south, considered a rustic goddess revered in her place in the west, and her cult is present but more distant in the north, where it's harder to farm. 2. She officially sanctions gay people; one of her strictures is "Never judge whom another loves". Pretty cool of her there. Before the fourth edition of the RPG, there were real life people who thought she'd be homophobic because gay couples can't have kids, and then it turned out to be the opposite, accepting gay people is a core virtue. 3. Taal and Rhya are polyamorous. They're married and love each other very much, though many of Rhya's kids came from other gods.
i kinda like how fantasy has actual gods to worship compared to 40k. it gives more credence to the idea that the warp manifests both good and bad parts of sentient thought, with all these gods having a good and bad side to them, and of course chaos being the most extreme example of this. it makes more sense for chaos gods to exist when gods of positive emotions exist as well. in 40k i'm just always thinking "where are the chaos gods of positive emotion"
One of the coolest ideas from the old RPG campaign is the 'Sigmar Heresy'. That is a secret Ulrik cult that believe that Sigmar is not a God, but actually a daemon..
Luckily for us Morr lovers, he's one of the gods who are still present in age of sigmar! Morrda is a god of death worshipped by a big city of the mortal realms who's priests do rites that prevent corpses from being raised by necromancy. Sounds familiar?
It's funny how in Warhammer fantasy role play 2ed you can play as pries of Manann, and due to his changing personality, every time you break one of his commandments, you just roll the dice for new ones. You can choose out of like 11 commandments and the Manann just goes like "yea i dont care you swear on sea now, but i dare you not to release this fish".
19:20 a Warhammer Fantasy calendar video would be interesting, so we can learn more about what shit like Geheimnisnacht is. Sounds like an annual event. I'm interested.
The relationship between Ulric and Sigmar reminds me a bit of the relationship ship between Ra and Osiris/Horus where Ra was the first king of the gods but he retired to let the new kid on the block take over
Maybe a quick rundown on the minor & regional gods of the empire in the next video? Katia, Bögenauer, Handrich... A lot are mentioned in wfrp 4e corerulebook and Archives III.
Yes, he should definetly do that, there are also more in a couple other wfrp 4e books, like the river god grandfather reik. Or the goddess katya; patron of bawds, lovers, amd the lonely. Fun fact about katya, her temples double as brothels in some areas of the reikland.
You from from a fun rabbit joke to the most endearingly genuine mispronunciation (*as much as you can with a made up word*) of Talabecland and it was great
Sad that you didnt mention saltspite when talking about manann, you know the proclaimed daughter of the god(and given her swordfish legs and general fishyness at least somewhat blessed or something by him)
Kind of a spoiler if you're looking to read the Back Plague books, but one of the Children of Ulric was a vital companion and (potentially a lover) for Mandred Skaven Slayer during the Skaven wars. They do show up in other places, but the cult of Ulric really doesn't like to admit they exist and have Ulrics favor.
Honestly I feel like the C’tan are kind of above gods due to them being a manifestation of a concept and their destruction can cause huge ripple effect that can harm the universe but I could be wrong.🐱
The fact that Taal and Rhya where once called “Ishernos” just flat out confirms that all the non-chaos gods outside of Sigmar, the ancestor gods, and maybe Ulric are just the elf gods with different names
No? The Tomb kings kicked the sh** out of the elfs and the tomb kings gods still blessed them? I think Taal and rhya are the only elven gods worshiped in the empire.
TWW 3 should give us the Cult of Ulric sub-faction... Winter Wolf Knights of Middenheim, Children of Ulric could fit as a ROR for Wolf-Kin due their rarity.
The Rhya vs Slaanesh rivalry of love vs pleasure has a good example in AoS too in one story where a Hedonites commander captured a Sylvaneth to try and turn her to his side as he cultivated her sisters into exotic fruit trees and wanted soulpods to grow his own army. When walking through his harems with her he asked if she was bothered by it and she no for as a creature of the Life Realm Sylvaneth approve of the acts of love creating birth & more life* However he said their acts won’t as they use magic to keep them sterile as children take away pleasure and Slaanesh’s followers only want to focus on the here and now. This puzzled her and had her say then it is simply a pointless act as you are people without legacies and no future or potential as that is the greatest gift of life vs pure pleasure. (He would later get his wish of “planting an army” but oohhh all the monkey paws curled on that wish. Don’t eat Sylvaneth fruit, your outhouses will become barracks) *Realm of Ghyran is big on it, even the landmasses multiply by having genders so they drift together and mate to birth new islands and floating landmasses.
I mean to say that the C'tan aren't gods because they aren't warpbound is...I dunno. I feel like the qualifications for what a god is mostly based on age and power over reality. I don't think whether or not they have a connection to the Warp should be a determining factor. Because the Chaos Gods are tied to Immaterium, the C'tan the Materium, and then you have beings like The Emperor of Mankind or The Old Ones who influenced both. Which makes me wonder (especially with stuff like The Webway) if Realspace was actually a part of The Warp that became stabilized and began following strict, observable laws in order to stay that way. The C'tan through Necrontyr tech just found a way to bend those laws with their power.
Missed opportunity to play a bass-boosted version of Markus Kruber's *BY TAAL! FIGHT! KILL! DEATH!* with a prior warning only for viewers on screen and not the listeners. Such could've been the power of Nagash.
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Here's an idea. You get iseikai in warhammer fantasy. However you are malekith.
Ulric best! Middenland best!
Morr mightve come back in the form of Morrda in AOS, what do you think of that?
Tf you mean he'll end up pregnant?
You misspelled “catastrophe”.
“It’s like the flame of Asyruan, but wolfier” lore has officially peaked
Oh no, the flame of Asuryan got space wolf'd
@@d.n5287 I bet the wolf bois and gals of Asuryan are far better than space wolfs
I like to imagine that in Age of Sigmar, Ulric's retired in Azyr and sits around like a grandfather, either shit-talking Sigmar for not getting out there and fighting Chaos hand-to-hand like a real warrior or screaming "THAT'S MY BOY" whenever Sigmar does anything good.
I like this too, but it would seem far more likely that Ulric just decided to not care about the world after the endtimes (writers didn't care about him)
@@darkyuraptor3315 and teclis is a total prick so I doubt he'd wanna help sigmars pantheon
I heard that Sigmar still send prayers to Ulric when times are rough for order or when he’s really stressed
@carlasmith741 He does.
Virgin emperor: even though the galaxy is on fire everything is going just as planned vs chad ulric: apply hammer to chaos skull
be honest with yourself the chaddest of all the gods is the maw...
Well acthually Ulric's holy weapon is an axe, Bliztbeil, and not a hammer ☝️🤓
@@rexross4847forget fight, just eat
You wretched HERETIC. How dare you imply that our GLORIOUS OVERLORD could fail.
"how are we going to deal with chaos?"
big E: 1 billion word essay that basically sums down to "break into eldar webway"
ulric/sigmar: mouse 1 + hammertime
Hey Morr's temples are always finely decorated. Its just that all the decorations are always made of skulls
I wonder if they made him a throne, a particularly skullly throne.
Don't be like that. What about wreaths, roses and crows?
So what you’re saying is that they’re not decorated by the standards of Warhammer Fantasy?
Morr's followers walked so the Imperium could hobble
You'll never convince me that Morr isn't real. I gave up Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but you're not taking Morr from me.
What Morr can be taken from you?
I'll leave now...
😄...what indeed? My fellow disciple said famously in 1981 "we've nothing left but faith". I think that's because back then, just like now, price increases have taken everything else.
Morr is my favourite warhammer god. Yeah he's a bit dour and serious but he's just a good guy. I love him. Plus his knights have gorgeous armour.
Have you ever seen any undead irl? No? That's how you know Morr is real
That's the spirit of religion!
Morr is so cool. Morrslieb is called that because Morr is said to have destroyed one of the Chaos gates and thus created the dark moon, saving the world in the process.
Good/Neutral gods of death are always more interesting than evil ones (though Nagash isn’t boring either)
Morr has a chivalric army in his honor, they patrol the eastern empire krumping undead left right and center.
@@josecoronadonieto6911He has multiple knightly orders, like the Black Guard, Knights of the Raven and Knights of the Black Rose.
@@letendreelliott8778he has several “Good” aspects in AOS. Bal-Nagash, the Black Child, is one of them. He’s a child formed of black mist who visits mothers and children on their deathbeds to grant them comfort before their passings. We meet him in soul wars when Nagash drops in on him to check his progress, and finds that he’s currently comforting an expectant mother who just gave birth, but is dying of the plague alongside her child. I choose to believe that Bal-Nagash, as the compassionate part of Nagash, granted the woman a few more precious seconds of life to hold her baby for the first, and last, time.
You’d expect something like that from Sigmar, or Allarielle, but nah. Nagash is the one who holds the hand of the trembling elder as he draws his final breath, the one who embraces the weeping mother as the body of her child is laid to rest, the one who points the way to peace while other gods focus simply on their living acolytes.
@@TheCorrodedManwait Nagash has that?
Neat fact: in the Empire there’s some humans who worship Khaine. They do so mainly as assassins and they’re basically the Warhammer version of the Dark Brotherhood.
They do it under the same name or they have their own version like in Elder Scrolls? With the shared gods between the races having their own names and subtle and not so subtle differences depending of the POV of each race.
@@g.sergiusfidenas6650 There are some cases where the humans worship elf-like gods under different names. Mannan->Mathlann, Rhya->Isha, etc. but in Khaine’s case it’s the actual elven god. Now they do have some small differences in perception of him, but on the fundamental level it’s the same god.
@@dropkickpiper3204 More like Rhya + Shallya = Isha, but you are correct.
There’s a blink and you’ll miss it reference to Morr in AoS. However, it’s as an aspect of Nagash called Nagash-Morr. So either Morr got eaten during the End Times as previously stated, or he actually made it to the Mortal Realms only to fall when Nagash was being himself… again. Either way, Nagash-Morr is described as studious, dutiful, and even somewhat fair as he catalogues and protects the dead. Which is probably the only time anyone in either setting said anything remotely nice about Nagash in any way, shape, or form.
The reason I bring all this up is to prove what a cool guy Morr is/was. He was so level headed that he made even a relentless d-bag like Nagash chill the f out, even if only partially.
Here’s hoping Sigmar can make Nagash puke him back up.
@@Xalerdane there is a god called morrda who hs the same motiffs and is said to have escaped Nagash in the lore
@@scruffinmacguffin447 OK, now have him team up with Sigmar and split the Death faction.
@Xalerdane there's an entire stormhost (anvils of the heldenhammer) who worship Morrda
@@galomerli And an entire free city in Syish devoted to him
Don't doubt yourself, Big Chungus dejectedly telling you times are tough is peak comedy.
Read this comment just as that part of the video came up, and I was almost in tears. Idk why that was so funny to me lol
I would give praise to Mor, but I would never do something so heretical to risk angering my one true God, Nagash.
All things die. The flesh rots, bone decays. Metal rusts, stone erodes. Gods can be eaten and shattered.
Such is the Power of Nagash
@@Kalnafein The power to have Mortal Followers outside of his universe.
@@wynnnnnnn5227 Sigma Necron Grindset
I can just imagine that if Ulric and the other Old Gods did meet Grimnir while fighting daemons, it was probably by complete accident after Grimnir slayer leaped into a Bloodthirster right next to them and they just had a momentary pause to do the confused blinking gif at each other.
GW never capitalizing on the opportunity to have Werewolf zealots within the empire’s territory is criminal.
powerwolf
Flagellants who think they’re going to turn into wolves when they die. They take the carrion after battle being eaten by wolves as them reincarnating.
GW never capitalizes over good things. Expedites and Corsairs are an example of it
Fun fact, in the first Fantasy Role-playing rulebook, Khaine was a human God and brother of Morr
what
None of these gods can hope to compare with the one true god, Boingob.
such is the power of Boinggob
THE ONLY TRUE GOD IS THE MAW!!!!!!!!
Nuffle....
A true acolyte I see
Heretic!
Bow to the one true god, Banjo!
Lucky you Pancreas, we are getting a bit more Morr thanks to Elspeth.
Funnly enough there is a space wolves character called ulric the slayer
He's like the reclusiarch
Ulric is a pretty common Old German/Scandinavian name.
Due to warp shenanigans it could be the same Ulric
Humans be like "WE HAVE OUR OWN GODS!!!" and then have some of their oldest be called "Ishernos"
This post was made by the Elven cult of Isha and Kurnous.
I'll have you know that Ishea and Karnos are totally distinct from Isha and Kurnous!
Ironically enough, the real life the elves didn't have their own pantheon until a while after 40k was created. So the elves actually copied the humans.
Silly landlubbers, the only real god you need to care about it Ma*coughcough*an
The issue being shallya is the closest human God to Isha She's the daughter of morr
isn't that cult in the Forest of Athel Lauren...
When did y'all get Wi-Fi?
Edit: please tell me that's not why you're so protective of the way stones
I'd never ever feel bored whenever the gods in Warhammer fantasy were mentioned, in fact it was not as overwhelmed as 40k (cough *imperium, eldar and chaos* cough). because the gods in fantasy had their own jobs/specialty and had their own ways to interact.
It's because the gods in Fantasy are still alive, in 40k you got Chaos and Emperor, all other gods are inactive, shattered or dead
@@MrManueldxalso the fact that due to the vast majority of religion is made of just bland factions(except Orks because you know they have the raddest headcanon for their gods and the necrons)
Take the fact Big E was a dumbass and killed the competition for the chaos gods so they could simply tell you to join instead of giving a very good contract-deal detailing why and what you get worshipping them
@DogseatDogs we were robbed
@DogseatDogs I like how you take it so personally when a comment makes a comparison between WHF and 40K, and then go on a tangent. Might want to get that stick up your ass
On the note of The Doom of Kavzar, in an AoS book, Skaven Battletome I think, the Tower of Kavzar is named dropped as where the Council of Thirteen meet.
It's also referenced in one of Thanquol's books where he talks about rumors that the great tower at the hearth of Skavenblight was actually made by humans and dwarfs, a rumor mostly considered heresy and slander, but Thanquol can see traces of their architecture in what little remains of it.
After watching the video about narrating skaven lore and The Doom of Kavzar, and seeing Skavenblight reeeeeallyup close in TW:WH 2 and 3, knowing that GW gives the last okay… the fact that the model of the Skaven capital had a screaming bell at the top of a very tall tower, alongside it’s a very dark swamp, made me head cannon that Skavenblight was Kavzar.
@@minibotas9496I thought that just was the text. No need to head canon it.
What about the rest of the Southern Gods other than Morr?
@@ChrisKCook Pancreas said that this would be the first in the series discussing the gods of Warhammer. So they’ll get touched upon later.
The humans nature gods literally being just the elf ones is so fucking funny
Look, If there is already a pantheon of perfectly serviceable gods, why not use some of them in your own?
@@TheCoCAmbassadorEveryone in the general vicinity of the Mediteranian.
"Hey isha, why are we getting worshiped by humans?"
"Idk man"
@@thesittingacheroraptor7565other elven god: just roll with it man the more the merrier
Look. Do I have to tell y'all to go read the ACOUP blog posts on ancient religion? (Not a 'read a book' putdown, either; they're written by a fantasy enjoying history PhD and can serve as very good primers for How To Magic In Historically-Inspired Fantasy.
More people should read 'em, is what I'm saying.)
Extended aside notwithstanding, as I understand it a certain degree of syncretism and cultural diffusion of pantheons is expected for cultures living in close proximity for extended periods.
It's insane how night and day gods are in Fantasy compared to 40K.
Like, Fantasy asctually has rich lore, variety and complexity when it comes to it's deities and their followers, meanwhile 40K despite it's larger scale has legit next to nothing in comparison.
Like, even the main 4 Chaos Gods have been stripped of much of their complexity and other attributes/charecterization when compared to their Fantasy counterparts (and the less it's told about the Eldar pantheon the better).
Isssue with 40k being a galaxy scale setting unfortunately
@DogseatDogs Space Marines?
@DogseatDogsthis isn't a sales comparison
@DogseatDogs Makes more money ≠ Better quality/lore. By the same logic the Minions are a better movies than anything Miyazaki has ever made because it made way more in the box office. That logic is beyond flawed.
@DogseatDogs Do you have a stick up your ass?
It's funny that despite the fact Ulric's been around since the literal birth of Warhammer lore in 3e, the only time we got the Warrior Priest of Ulric as a Hero unit in the Empire Army was in 6e - first in White Dwarf in 2006, then in the Storm of Chaos book. I mean, okay, it wasn't the best Hero; it was literally the original 6e Warrior Priest of Sigmar with the prayers swapped out for prayers that can be used to "grant a unit Immune to Psychology", "grant a unit +d3 inches when charging", "do a S4 hit to all enemies in base contact with the priest" and "inflict a -1 to hit debuff on an enemy unit", which are of somewhat questionable utility compared to the Sigmarite priest's prayers, but they could have tried giving them some better prayers in 7e and 8e!
Ulric! Ursun! Sigmar! These three alone are worthy.
all hail bear god
Welp, you might have been put in a book of grudges of multiple gods my dear.
@DogseatDogs I didn't forget. lol
Ursun literally got kidnapped by Be'lakor, the guy who has been taking L's since the formation of the Great Vortex.
Ursun will be back in AOS one day and he shall prove the great beast he is
You know what, he may be back already, there is already a bear like god-being called Ursricht venerated by some stormcast
Elves, Lizardmen and Tomb Kings when some Reiklander calls one of their “gods” old:
I love Morr. In a lot of fiction, death gods are often depicted as malevolent entities, and Morr is just a neutral entity. Any work that shows Death or the personification of as neutral, or even benevolent and kind are great in my opinion, and I love the whole "guarding the dead" thing Morr's priests do.
That end credit joke flash-banged me harder than PancreasYouHadOneJob would flash/bang Teclis.
I will quote kirk for 40K: "what does god need with a starship?"
"He's lucky he never met me or else he'd end up pregnant." Damn Pancreas, didn't know you liked him in THAT way
Hot elf twink.....I mean.....whats not to like?
Pancreas upload! Time to drop what I’m doing to watch it.
Pancreas video on my day off? Such is the power of Nagash
Okay Pancreas, I will admit it. Your opinion on Teclis is very relatable, you have good taste in twinks
it killed me when i saw that end
Shout out to twinks that doom their worlds to apocalypse, gotta be one of my favorite genders
I'm not scum, i wasn't even thinking about poison ivy until you said so. Now i cant stop seeing it. WHYYYYY
No Ancestor gods? These other gods ruined godland, you've just made an enemy for life.
I always hold Morr close to my hearth. My very first character in Warhammer Fantasy RPG was his acolyte. His name was Gaori from one of characters form anime Slayers. I was a wierd kid. But now I'm Myrmidia's devouted simp.
the children of Ulric also appear in the black plague trilogy in which they are depicted as cursed beings and are said to be enemies of the ulrician beliefs
That last line basically gave me a concussion. Id say I hope you're proud of yourself, but I know you are...
But besides that, love the video. Eagerly await the rest of this mini-series!
I like the old gods like Taal and Morr instead of all gods being chaos gods, emp or xenos gods
I like how fantasy has whole pantheons for almost every faction allows me to scream MORRS SYCTHE CLAIMS YOU or SUFFER ULRICS WARTH BEAST
Fun fact - Morr is strongly implied to still be "alive" in AoS, as there's a Free City in Shyish that are described as worshipping a benevolent death god called "Morrda" that looks like a raven and helps ensure his followers pass on peacefully & aren't captured/controlled by Nagash's sorcery. In general, I'm hoping more gods - both original (like the King of Cats or whatever his name is) and from Fantasy - start to appear in AoS.
I also like from an anthropological perspective, so many of the various Fantasy gods are implied to be the same across different pantheons, just under different names (i.e., Mathlann, the Elven god of the sea, and Manann, the Empire's god of the sea, are all but spelled out to be the same person), as it reminds me of how many different pantheons share a "common ancestor" in the proto-Indo-European pantheon. It's a great bit of worldbuilding _and_ clever writing on behalf of Games Workshop's writers.
Great video as always, man! Can't wait for you to do a video on Ursun!
current status of the old world gods so far
Empire gods
Ulric-->dead
Taal-->Still worship in the realm of ghur
Rhya-->Unknown but if Taal still worship then i'm pretty sure she still around
Morr--> Is back and still around by the new name Morrda
Shallya-->Still stuck in Nurgle mansion as fantasy/AOS isha
Myrmida-->Still around worshiped by Hysh human & even some Stormcast (new name Mirmdh)
Mannan-->if he Mathlann then he got devoured by slaanesh
Verna-->unknown
Ranald-->Still worship in Shyish
Kislev gods
Ursen--->Unknown depending what the TTW canon route but is still remember and a city call Ursengrod in ghur
Dwarf
Griminir-->Shatter into various
Grungi-->around drinking bugman with Sigmar and forging weapons and armor for him
Valaya-->went from dead to MIA
Gazul--> eaten by Nagash but shut the gates to the dwarven afterlife before nagash got in
Elves
Isha--> Reincarnated to Alarielle
Kurnous-->Reincarnated to Kurnoth
Khaine-->shatter to only a iron heart in Morathi possession
Lileath/Lady of the lake-->dead
Bunch of the others like Asuryan, Morai-heg, Loec/Cegorach ect was devoured by slaanesh but as of recently shards has escape She who Thirst stomach and is currently seeking host to reincarnate
ogres
Great Maw-->sort worship as it now an aspect of Gorkamorka call the Gulping god but the original worship of the real maw is still around but is considered heretical by the other Mawtribes
Fire Mouth--->dead? like it's a volcano there nothing really that special it flooded the ogre kingdom in the ET
What about Hashut?
@@brandonlyon730 Is definitely around. infact we got like trusted sources that Chaos Dwarfs will be coming to AOS 4 edition at some point
as of Hashut mention so far AOS being continuing that tradition of burying the lead of his true nature as he describe sometimes as a minor chaos god, sometimes a demon god to evil dwarf god to even a demon prince. There even some lore about how the Fyreslayer claim that one of their sacred grimnir flames was stolen and infused into Hashut and his hellish forges
@@michaelsantamaria5295any cathay gods?
@@chozer1 Cathay Dragons as of yet nothing due being created for TTW3 so they're like very new to the lore and we still haven't lear what exactly the dragon emperor "master plan against chaos" is about
maybe they make it over but as of yet they still haven't made it to tabletop in the old world
@@chozer1 The Celestial Dragon Emperor was apparently only really okay with his human subjects venerating (but not worshipping) their ancestors and not worhsipping him and his wife or anything else, so there technically aren't really Cathayan gods as a result. Though Yuan Bo also apparently still wrote some laws involving praying to the Celestial Dragon Emperor and the Moon Empress, so they might have become gods eventually? Either way, neither of them have shown up in AoS since essentially all of modern Cathay was created for TTW3 which came out years after AoS started.
The Cult of Taal did kick off the time of three emperors. And this may be my massive Taal Bias showing, but if GW pulled out Ottila and gave her a a bunch of Griffons I bet that she could eclipse Daenarys easily.
When I play Geheimnisnacht CK2 they always form a Nurgle Cult in Talabheim. WHY?
@@HeinrichMuller-mv6hn
Really shouldn't be there. Talabheim is unironically where Taal actually lives.
@@semi-useful5178 I know. But they somehow turned to Nurgle. Only them. Openly. The rest of Tabacleland was conquered by Vlad. It is weird I know.
@@HeinrichMuller-mv6hn
Indeed
that last line hit me like a ton of bricks but you know what, he's not wrong
that teclussy knowledge at the end really fucked me up, thanks
15:51 Funnily enough, this is a reference to the Rime of the Ancient Mariner, a late 18th-century major poem by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, which referenced the somewhat popular superstition of the time that Albatrosses were the souls of lost sailors, so killing them would bring bad luck, and popularized this niche superstition held inconsistently by sailors throughout history into popular culture, so it kind of is a genuine superstition held by medieval sailors.
Ulric is so badass that his worshipper became a god and his worshiper's worshiper became the one of chaos' fiercest foes. Still, Ptra's worshipper is Settra, so its a fierce battle for the top spot.
This is why I converted from Warhammer 40k to Fantasy
Same
I was playing the beta of the first Vermintide, knowing nothing about Warhammer Fantasy (was firmly a 40k guy), and it was Kruber mentioning Taal that got me onto Lexicanum wiki to see what a "Taal" was, and lo and behold, within a week I was WHFB pilled and writing a fan fiction about a Sewer Jack lmao
14:12 no I laughed pretty good at that . The bunny standing up hahaha.
I never thought I'd here someone say that the brain will shrivel and die if you don't do math. WE FINALLY HAVE SOME ACCURATE FACTS!
warhammer fantasy just gives me ankh mopork vibes with how it does gods, you dream it up, now there is a god of a burglars guild
Ray, when a 20 foot tall chaos entity asks if it's a god: you say YES!
Morr is best death god. I hope he someday tears himself out of Nagash’s stomach and takes his rightful place as Lord of Shyish.
I'm glad he clarified which poison ivy we were talking about.
I think Pancreas missed a bit of the nuance regarding Rhya. WFRP 4e says many scholars believe her worship is dying because she doesn't have great temples or holy books, and that "Her many cultists do nothing to contradict such talk". The message there isn't that her cult is dying or dead as those scholars believe, it's that she's a VERY popular goddess whose worship is out in the countless villages and farmsteads of the Empire and beyond, not the cities where the especially stuffy scholars who've never seen a peasant before write their theses. She's the goddess of several important spheres, one of them agriculture, and three quarters of the Empire are farmers. Her cult is enormous and very important, even without big temples or holy books, same as it's been for millennia.
Three extra little fun facts about Rhya:
1. The Cult of Taal and Rhya as a single organisation only exists in the eastern Empire. Elsewhere, they're two separate cults. She's treated with utmost respect in the south, considered a rustic goddess revered in her place in the west, and her cult is present but more distant in the north, where it's harder to farm.
2. She officially sanctions gay people; one of her strictures is "Never judge whom another loves". Pretty cool of her there. Before the fourth edition of the RPG, there were real life people who thought she'd be homophobic because gay couples can't have kids, and then it turned out to be the opposite, accepting gay people is a core virtue.
3. Taal and Rhya are polyamorous. They're married and love each other very much, though many of Rhya's kids came from other gods.
Taal: “What kind of nut would marry a _fertility goddess_ if he wasn’t fine with sharing?”
i kinda like how fantasy has actual gods to worship compared to 40k. it gives more credence to the idea that the warp manifests both good and bad parts of sentient thought, with all these gods having a good and bad side to them, and of course chaos being the most extreme example of this. it makes more sense for chaos gods to exist when gods of positive emotions exist as well. in 40k i'm just always thinking "where are the chaos gods of positive emotion"
One of the coolest ideas from the old RPG campaign is the 'Sigmar Heresy'. That is a secret Ulrik cult that believe that Sigmar is not a God, but actually a daemon..
To be honest, I only follow this channel to hear about Warhammer fantasy lore like this, not that 40k thing you all seem to adore
Well I am super excited to hear this is a series. Cannot wait to see how you cover the Maw
Luckily for us Morr lovers, he's one of the gods who are still present in age of sigmar! Morrda is a god of death worshipped by a big city of the mortal realms who's priests do rites that prevent corpses from being raised by necromancy. Sounds familiar?
Also, Morrda's cult usually has members of the Anvils of the Heldenhammer as high priests
Love that you putting a spotlight on the religions of warhammer.
That last line was very relatable. Perhaps the most.
13:06 potato potato. Either way plants are getting nutrients tonight!
Pancreas, I want more ogre propaganda. The maw demands it
It's funny how in Warhammer fantasy role play 2ed you can play as pries of Manann, and due to his changing personality, every time you break one of his commandments, you just roll the dice for new ones. You can choose out of like 11 commandments and the Manann just goes like "yea i dont care you swear on sea now, but i dare you not to release this fish".
19:20 a Warhammer Fantasy calendar video would be interesting, so we can learn more about what shit like Geheimnisnacht is. Sounds like an annual event. I'm interested.
This is, honestly, probably the most cursed ending of the video so far.
I admire you, Pancreas.
Nice to see something different from Warhammer discourse that isn’t about whining about the Custodes.
The relationship between Ulric and Sigmar reminds me a bit of the relationship ship between Ra and Osiris/Horus where Ra was the first king of the gods but he retired to let the new kid on the block take over
Thanks for that ending stinger, Pancreas, I’ll be sure to visit Morr’s Garden very soon.
Maybe a quick rundown on the minor & regional gods of the empire in the next video?
Katia, Bögenauer, Handrich...
A lot are mentioned in wfrp 4e corerulebook and Archives III.
Yes, he should definetly do that, there are also more in a couple other wfrp 4e books, like the river god grandfather reik. Or the goddess katya; patron of bawds, lovers, amd the lonely. Fun fact about katya, her temples double as brothels in some areas of the reikland.
I'd like to see the "Gods of Warhammer - Dwarven Gods" video soon. Grimnir would be cool to talk about, and his comparative relation to Gotrek.
happy to see more gods soon. sounds like a good series.
You from from a fun rabbit joke to the most endearingly genuine mispronunciation (*as much as you can with a made up word*) of Talabecland and it was great
Sad that you didnt mention saltspite when talking about manann, you know the proclaimed daughter of the god(and given her swordfish legs and general fishyness at least somewhat blessed or something by him)
If Teclis could survive an adventure with Gotrek, he could probably avoid having your kid(s).
Seriously lack of luthor harkon but...the sea god...hmmm yes good truly he is pirate( great video! Keep up the grand work!)
Damn 480 views in 3 minutes? bro might go big one day
Kind of a spoiler if you're looking to read the Back Plague books, but one of the Children of Ulric was a vital companion and (potentially a lover) for Mandred Skaven Slayer during the Skaven wars. They do show up in other places, but the cult of Ulric really doesn't like to admit they exist and have Ulrics favor.
I’m excited for you to cover Myrmidia
Fantasy werewolfs are really metal. Literally tearing its way out from their human form into their wolf form wearing the tatters of their human skin.
Honestly I feel like the C’tan are kind of above gods due to them being a manifestation of a concept and their destruction can cause huge ripple effect that can harm the universe but I could be wrong.🐱
So what did destroying Llandu’gor do other then creating a plague for some unfortunate Necron’s?
@@brandonlyon730 sadly it has never been elaborated on what was the consequences of his death which is a shame.🐱
funny how this comes just as the new dlc for total warhammer comes and it has a lady completely dedicated to mor
Ha, jokes on you! I actually like listening to you explain warhammer fantasy lore
The Skaven aren't completely evil. They do keep screwing Nagash over. That alone gets them Settra's approval.
Great video, I would love to have more old world/fantasy lore 😊
That's why 40K is just as fantasy as AOS and TOW. There is magic all around.
TFW 40k is most likely to introduce another Space God plastic miniature before we ever get Sigmar mini
The fact that Taal and Rhya where once called “Ishernos” just flat out confirms that all the non-chaos gods outside of Sigmar, the ancestor gods, and maybe Ulric are just the elf gods with different names
Hey, shut up.
From a follower of Morr/Ashurnos/Asuryan.
No? The Tomb kings kicked the sh** out of the elfs and the tomb kings gods still blessed them? I think Taal and rhya are the only elven gods worshiped in the empire.
Oh boy my favourite loretuber uploaded, I sure hope there isn't a big chungus jumpscare
Just got outta Bootcamp and had some time to burn. Happy to see a new post :)
TWW 3 should give us the Cult of Ulric sub-faction... Winter Wolf Knights of Middenheim, Children of Ulric could fit as a ROR for Wolf-Kin due their rarity.
One day. One day...
Morr was one of the Southern Gods along with his Wife Verena and their Daughters Myramidia and Shayla.
That end part though.
"I have depicted my armor as the soy wojak and myself as the chad, therefore I am the victor."
Love these long lore vids
The Rhya vs Slaanesh rivalry of love vs pleasure has a good example in AoS too in one story where a Hedonites commander captured a Sylvaneth to try and turn her to his side as he cultivated her sisters into exotic fruit trees and wanted soulpods to grow his own army.
When walking through his harems with her he asked if she was bothered by it and she no for as a creature of the Life Realm Sylvaneth approve of the acts of love creating birth & more life*
However he said their acts won’t as they use magic to keep them sterile as children take away pleasure and Slaanesh’s followers only want to focus on the here and now.
This puzzled her and had her say then it is simply a pointless act as you are people without legacies and no future or potential as that is the greatest gift of life vs pure pleasure.
(He would later get his wish of “planting an army” but oohhh all the monkey paws curled on that wish. Don’t eat Sylvaneth fruit, your outhouses will become barracks)
*Realm of Ghyran is big on it, even the landmasses multiply by having genders so they drift together and mate to birth new islands and floating landmasses.
The two times you've said "you've probably heard of this guy outside of warhammer" have both been characters I've never heard of
I mean to say that the C'tan aren't gods because they aren't warpbound is...I dunno.
I feel like the qualifications for what a god is mostly based on age and power over reality. I don't think whether or not they have a connection to the Warp should be a determining factor.
Because the Chaos Gods are tied to Immaterium, the C'tan the Materium, and then you have beings like The Emperor of Mankind or The Old Ones who influenced both.
Which makes me wonder (especially with stuff like The Webway) if Realspace was actually a part of The Warp that became stabilized and began following strict, observable laws in order to stay that way.
The C'tan through Necrontyr tech just found a way to bend those laws with their power.
>spends half of the morr section on fan theory
>doesn't mention once morrs relation to prophecy and ravens
Missed opportunity to play a bass-boosted version of Markus Kruber's *BY TAAL! FIGHT! KILL! DEATH!* with a prior warning only for viewers on screen and not the listeners.
Such could've been the power of Nagash.
I would love to see Dwarf gods up next, or Tomb King gods too!