I didn't mention this in the video, but it's important: Some cheap generators have some really sketchy breaker/outlet setups where they might have a 30a 240V plug (7,200 watt) despite not being able to support a legit 30 amp output. Just because a generator has a 30a breaker or plug doesn't mean it will handle a welder that requires 30a. In such cases of BS breaker/wiring you will likely have the welder shut off or go into protect mode as the voltage drops under a 30 amp load. Basically the breaker won't trip and the power output become poor. Also, some cheap generators may be say 6000 watt but they cant output all of that power to the 240v outlet. They might be able to output 3k watt per 120v outlet (25amp max) but only 20a to the 240 plug due to the breaker on the 240v. Its also important to remember that if you put anything else on the generator while welding that will lower your output available to the welder. Its not the best idea to weld and use a grinder at the same time. With generator/welder combos this is possible because some (mainly bigger ones) have both a welding generator and a 240v generator, so running a grinder doesn't affect the weld output. Edit: also please remember, many welder companies lie, or don’t properly explain the current draw of their machines. It’s very common for a welder to say “20a draw at rated output”. You might think that’s at its max output, say 140a. Yet they are actually referring to its rated output of say 110a at 25% duty cycle. In such case it draws 20a at 110 amp out, and it will load up the input at 27-30amp draw at 140a out. The cheaper the welder the more likely it is to overload a circuit and the more likely the company is going to “creatively mislabel” the current draw requirements. A lack of CSA or UL listings on a welder is a sure sign they probably lied about specs lol.
I was trying to get creative to weld a pipe support- Preheat, work a wide puddle to get it hotter, just trying to keep the draw low and not to ruin either machine. I was able to get the weld to flatten out and not be too cold and globby. My little mini harbor freight stick welder, the smallest one works good but takes all day to get enough of the little sticks used up.
Yeah come to think of it my generator has a very, to me loss connection for the power feed at the generator, the 60amp plug connector has always to me been slack. Ummm again good point.
Yeah the outlaws are hard to find. It is basically the same as the northern tool klutch, and that’s more available. The outlaws are an order out only basis unfortunately, and the wait time is difficult to determine (aka long). The hardest part with the whole welder/generator fiasco is that every welder is different with efficiency, power factor, and inrush current. It would be easy to tell everyone to buy a 9k watt generator but that would be overkill for many. Welding on a generator is basically a compromise, because to get the same power as a house setup you’re best off with a welder generator. Unfortunately those are stick welders and may not be very useful for some who want to wire weld. It becomes an issue where you must sacrifice something, and the tighter the budget the more sacrifices must be made. I hope that the video explained so everyone can make better decisions. It sucks to wreck an expensive welder or generator doing something a person doesn’t realize is bad.
No problem 😀. It’s quite a convoluted problem, but hopefully the info allows everyone to have setup that works and lasts. I wish a functional setup was cheap, but there is no way around the fact welding takes a ton of power and big power generators are expensive. A good setup will save a lot due to efficiency though 😀
I have been an electrician for 50 years plus started welding when I was sixteen. Now I'm 70 years. What a fine job you done explaining this topic. Thank you for passing on your knowledge to the younger crowd.
Yep. I use a blackmax8750 peak 7200 running (a cheapie from sams) and a Forney 225 buzz box loaded into the back of a side by side as a fence weld set-up. The Forney sucks the life out of blk max at 130A, though I do get less complaints when I use the Lincoln Mig 140. That why I'm looking around. The cheapie generator holds me back. I have been eyeing the Klutch Terminator over the Vulcan Outlaw.
im staring a business for mobile weld repair and you just helped me out to much. I did find the right generator but, boy that poor welder is going to die. I just need it to last long enough to make enough money to buy a proper set up. Thank you and God bless you sir and remember all things for Gods glory!
Glad to hear you’re doing a mobile repair business, the world needs more people out there fixing stuff. So few people have the skills or desire to do it there is quite a shortage of skilled people in many areas. I am sure your welder will hold on. Make as much money as you can and upgrade as you can. Hopefully the video will give you the right things to think of for your setup. I have been running on a generator for over a year and doing mobile work as a side hustle, and having a reliable generator is huge.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thank you for your advice! I am just getting out of trade school and a trend im seeing it they all go to shop/plants or join the union. The shops only really care about big work and big jobs that keep the lights on and pay everyone. I on the other hand am just one dude who will not only have my equipment but, out right own it all with no loan. I just ended up saving a lot of my money and buying tools with my funds rather than going to parties. I wont lie though, the snap on driver and I got a thing going and sometimes I black out and come to with tools and hats haha. I bought a cheaper truck that is easy to fix. Many a star is lining up per say. Very blessed about that stuff. Market wise I think I have one for repair work that other places just out right overlook. Not only that but, only 3-7 mobile welders in my area and non offer cast repair, or say they are insured so that allows me to work with fleet farm or menards when they need something. Its all rather interested and kinda scary. Thank you for making this video and replying to it. Its nice to hear the Midwest accent coming from someone else haha. God bless and if you have any advice like anything at all. Please hit me with it.
Hands-down the best video about this topic that I've ever seen. I suspect Greg knows far more about this stuff than 99% of the pros, & he teaches it in a way that us hobby folks can understand (sort of). If I'm still lost, it's not because Greg didn't last it out there. Electricity is my worst subject, for sure.
I will be dabbling into how electricity works in future videos soon. It’s actually easier than you probably realize. I am going to take apart a simple dc output transformer welder and using measuring devices show what is going on at every step. A lot can be learned when you can actually see what’s going on visually.
You’re welcome and thanks for the kind words. Soon I will have a video where I show how a simple transformer welder produces dc welding current from a/c input. It will be pretty cool because tons of other electronic devices will make more sense. 😀👍
No problem 😄. It’s been a hot topic on the Facebook groups lately so I had the “extra” motivation to reshoot the video and get it out. I want to see people get a setup that works for what they are looking at doing, and hopefully not make any expensive mistakes.
I had the same experience. The YT algo could use an overhaul so that good, useful, knowledgeable content like this lands above the clickbait style stuff.
No problem, it should give you the knowledge so you can make the right decisions on a setup. I wish that generator and welder companies were more honest with labels and ratings, it would be far easier to figure out what’s going on. It’s very common for welders to say “draws 20a at rated output” which rated output is say 110amps and not its max of 140 amps. Which makes people think all they need is a 20a breaker on a generator. Which will result in constant trips if that’s what it has.
It definitely seems simple but it’s quite a rabbit hole lol. I wish that there was some sort of standard generators and welders had to meet so the compatibility would be guaranteed. Or atleast truth in advertising. Unfortunately a ton of what’s out there is all sorts of trash lol. They lie about specs, capabilities, ratings, and the quality of parts of both welders and generators are highly variable. It generally pays to buy from better well known manufactures, but even then it’s no guarantee. Frustrating to say the least lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Truth in advertising is an oxymoron. Lol Once the marketing wanks get a hold of the product --forget about any meaningful information. Particularly with the Chinesiam stuff 'cause they can literally say anything they want with no basis in fact. Whenever I see "CE" instead of "UL" on a device you just gotta' cringe... Still ---the price. Just can't get away from it. That's why your vids are so great. The only way to protect yourself, or your equipment, is through knowledge. That's what you provide in spades!
Glad you liked the video 👍. The sucky part is I want to give a simple accurate answer but everyone’s welder has different power requirements/efficiencies, and everyone’s generator has different outputs. The goal is to get a setup that works and the only way that’s possible is to either way over size the generator or figure out what is really needed. I don’t want to see people spend a bunch of money for a setup that doesn’t work.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg can't get better than that. You are teaching people how to fish instead of giving them just the fish lol. I think lots of manufacturers would benefit adding power correction factor to their welders, i think people would be willing to pay the extra money if they understand how important it is. If I came across information like this while back, I would have made different choices. Thank you again.
Nice, I think i made a good purchase for my lite duty mig for off grid fab work. Both transformer gen and mig. The generator is a 6250 watt (5000w) and the welder is a Hobart 135. Intended use is flux core welding 1/16” (.065”) wall square steel tube fabrication with smallish wire. I’ll use it at the mid to upper range settings. I think that the flux core might actually be of a small benefit for the described use (generated heat?). I put this setup together over 6 months time and have all this stuff now and a sweet little project soon!:) However, when my needs increase/ change I will take everything to heart in this video. I’m right here watching your efforts. Now where’s my ginger beer I know I put it down around here somewhere, lol🙏👋’freezer
Flux core definitely is more bang for the buck with welding on a generator. It operates at a slightly lower voltage than gas shielded mig so you actually use less generator power given the same thickness material. It also has better penetration generally speaking. The only downside to flux core wire is when attempting to use .035 wire on material over 3/16th you can get internal porosity due to how fast the weld solidifies. Gas shielded mig just loses fusion but doesn’t have porosity. Flux core wire and a generator is a very good setup for doing general fab work in the field 😀
You’re entirely welcome 😀👍. I know there was a ton of info in the video but I did it so people can get a lot better idea of what’s going on and figure out what they need. The last thing I want for people to do is spend a couple grand on a setup that doesn’t work right, and unfortunately that’s pretty common.
Thanks I needed this video. I have a Miller 211 and I’ve been thinking about buying a generator so I can do work outside the home. The information that you have shown will come in so handy. Thank you sir keep up the good work God bless.🙏
So the 211 is a great welder that is highly efficient. Even though miller doesn’t specify power factor correction (which they don’t on any of their welders that I am aware of) based on its specs I am sure it has it. Its max fuse rating is 30 amp and it should be able to achieve 200amps output on a 30amp breaker. To truly max that machine out (230a) you will need around 5.5-6k running watts. Miller specifies 7k but they don’t say running or total. At reduced power (or on 120v) you will be able to get its max output of 130a out of a 3500 running watt generator. Due to the efficient design you will be able to get a lot of welding done without a lot of power 😀
Very nice! I have an RV and am looking at getting in to welding, which would mostly be mobile. Two comments: you mentioned fuses blowing quickly. Depends on the fuse type but many of them are just as slow to blow as circuit breakers. I have an all in one solar system and a non-inverter generator. As you probably know, non inverter generators try to run the engine at 3600 rpm to get 60 Hz, but change the fuel level as the load changes to keep the speed / frequency correct. What this means is that the frequency goes down when the load goes up, until the generator control electronics adjust the fuel level to get it back up to speed. Most all in one solar systems detect this frequency instability as “utility power is dying, switch to battery.” They then turn off the load, so the frequency changes again. Repeat. I don’t know if any welders behave similarly, but it’s a very annoying thing. I had to get a separate charger that is able to ignore the frequency instability.
Great tip and observation. So many cheap welders cause significant voltage instability with generators due to poor power factors and inconsistent loads. Welding more or less is a controlled high amperage load on a circuit, and it’s very easy to cause generators to produce poor voltage/frequency/etc. Much like flipping on/off a bunch of 1600 watt heaters would cause issues, welders do the same thing.
Thank you for braking this down and putting it in simple English. Great explanation that I could understand. May have to change the route I’m going after seeing this, but now I know why what I was hoping to do may not work.
Thanks for the kind words. The crappy thing is it’s honestly pretty hard to truly know what will work and what won’t. Universally most welders don’t have PFC, and to me it’s a make it or break it deal when running in a generator. A lot of people say “well just don’t max the machine out” aka run lower settings, but unless it’s an emergency I would avoid that. It won’t take too many times that a breaker trips while welding (or bad voltage drop) before something will likely fail lol.
No problem 😀. I wish the whole thing was simpler, but every welder is different so it really causes a lot of issues. Not to mention a vast majority of welders have incorrect (or “creatively” calculated) tags on them for current draw, which further complicates things. Hopefully people will be able to use the info to get a setup that reliably works and doesn’t cause equipment failure.
I'm off-grid, It sounds like Power factor correction is a must for me since I have minimal power, It also sounds like it's beneficial for wire gauge size as well I'm in the process of setting up my barn into a shop and I'm running a wire underground to power a welder. Thanks for the video this has been a great explanation of power consumption used by welders. I have my eye on the ESAB Rouge 130i pro which has power factor contraction, I was planning on a cheaper Amazon one to start with but I need the most power efficiency with everything I'm always buying. again thanks for the great video This really helps for someone who's living off grid.
So what I find interesting is with the rogue 200 (which will be similar to the 130) it outputs 120-130a on 120 when maxed out. The fact they have a 130 that is dual voltage is interesting because I believe the machine will put out 120+ at both voltages. The 240v will definitely have a better duty cycle though. I am sure the 130 rogue has power factor correction and will be 90% or more than efficient so you would be in great hands running off the grid.
Glad it helped you out 😀👍. It sucks that the situation is as complicated as it is, but ultimately when you understand the big picture you wont wind up wasting money on a setup that doesn’t work. Thats the worst lol.
You’re welcome. I wish the situation was easier to make work, but the truth is the situation is stupidly complex and there is real risk of damage to equipment. There is a ton of bad info out there too, which makes it difficult to even know what to do. That’s why I thought it was important to make the video so people don’t waste a shit ton of money on a setup that won’t work or damage their equipment.
I am actually shopping for a generator now and your video just popped up, some really good information and you answered questions that I did not even know I needed to ask. I have the Lincoln 210mp and the Prime Weld Tig225. Looks like I a shopping for a 7k watt, pure sine wave generator. I now know the 210mp has PFC, not sure yet about the Prime Weld. Tank you for your video, I am your newest Sub now....
Welcome and thanks for subscribing. That means a lot. The 210mp is a really good welder, I have used it in the past. If it does have PFC you should be able to get 180-200a out of it on a 7k running watt generator. The prime weld would be highly unlikely to have it, however due to tig operating at lower voltage you should still be able to get a bunch of output out of it. I would definately say 7k would be the lowest you want to go and a bit more wouldn’t hurt. Most of the time you won’t be running near max which is good 👍.
Well your wrong on one point, I have a trailblazer 325 and looking to get the new trailblazer 330 air pak and I'm watching your videos because of how well and in depth you explain everything. Keep it up! enjoy your videos!
Haha I guess I am wrong 😅. The trailblazer is quite a generator/welder, and is honestly the best solution for welding mobile without compromises. It solves so many issues that are presented with the smaller engine drives, and gives real world capability. Clean power, tons of output, ability to actually arc gouge (which would smoke a small engine drive lol). If only they were cheaper 😀. If you buy that air pack be sure to share your thoughts in the future. The new LCD seems to be quite the setup.
I’m a beginner welder in the UK and your videos inspire me to keep on keeping on. I was watching this because I’m looking at buying a jennywelder in the future and wanted to figure out the score. I can’t get through the video, I always watch late at night when the kids are asleep, and wake up at stupid o clock drooling. It’s not your style or content I really like it, just I can’t get through this one. 😂😂😂
Glad to hear that. That’s why I put the video out. Welders and generators are so expensive it would suck to cause failure of either one of them due to a lack of power or poor quality of that power. With a solid generator you give up very little over house hold power. A lot of people like going the small engine drive route (sub 220amp welder/generstor combo) but those basically eliminate running much of a mig or tig machine on them. I rather have a solid 7500-10k running watt generator and be able to use mig/tig/stick on it over a 180a engine drive that will barely hit 5k running watts.
Banger video man - I think the takeaway I got was just like everything else in life - if you want to do it right it's going to cost more.... You put out some genuinely great content and I love the name of your channel. I think your channel will continue to grow.
Thanks for the kind comment. Doing it right costs money, which sucks because money is definitely harder to come by today. Nothings worse than spending a decent amount only to find out it won’t work as it’s needed too. Lost money and disappointment really sucks lol.
Hi again Greg! Wonderful information there! When I did that mine shaft sinking bucket weld job I mentioned on the last video you did, I had to do that on a generator. I live at my mine so I don't have AC power. My trailer I live in I have solar on plus I use a generator.. but the mine I can only use a generator for because the BLM doesn't allow anything powered over 10hp so I'm limited on what I can use thus I had to do that project using the generator I use for the mine. Anyways I did the welding job with one of those Campbell Hausfield 70 amp hi/lol settings welders that have the duty cycle auto shutoffs and the red light on it that shows when the welder is ready to run again. As for the generator, I ran the welder off a Champion 3500 continuous watt /4000 start watt 120/240 switchable volts 30 amp breaker generator and the welder did slag the generator down a bit during the welds but never tripped the breaker so with the info you just gave, I think the welder was pulling just under enough amps it took to not trip the breakers.
More than likely that little welder was up there on the input loading. You should get pretty good longevity out of the welder and generator since the generator has enough power overhead to handle the load. That particular welder won’t likely be bothered too much by the generators output either. It is possible to get as much as 115-120amps off that generator with stick by switching to a highly efficient welder like the esab rogue series, miller maxstar 161, or fronius 180. If you ever find the need for more output switching to one of those would give you the ability to weld unlimited thickness and bigger rods. Btw what kind of mine do you own?
@@makingmistakeswithgreg anything that puts money in my pocket. Lol But yeh it's AU/AG primary with copper/lead as secondary. I had it assayed at around 1.5 TOPT/20+AG TOPT. it's just one of my mines but Thier all underground ones. :) I am thinking of looking into that esab welder tho. Last time I was in one of the local pawn shops in town they had a bunch of pretty nice welders and the prices was very negotiable. 👍
Amps × volts = watts. If the welder requires 20 amps at 120 volts, that's 2400 watts. Add another 30% or so to accommodate the surge load of striking an arc, and I'd suggest adding another 30-40% so that the generator isn't running at a high load percentage relative to output. I don't worry about it since I have engine drive welder/generators, both actual generator (DC output only) and alternator(AC and rectified DC) output. My area is different than everyone else's, but they're not hard to find here, or nearly as expensive as new. Anyone reasonably handy can build an engine driven welder from a car alternator and a lawnmower engine. Commercial versions are also available, though most are intended for use on a truck or off-road vehicle. Power factor correction, at least in the transformer welder days, was a factory option. The downside to PFC is that they draw more power when idle as compared to the same unit with no PFC....at least based on the data for those units I've seen. The inverse is also true, the PFC equipped version draws somewhat less when welding than the same machine without PFC. I know little about the inverter machines. The transformers are less efficient, but they'll still be functional in several decades, while inverter machines will be in a landfill. Mig settings... They can be a good starting point, or nearly worthless. The MIG I use at work is a 1982 model Hobart (before Miller ruined the brand), IIRC. It has voltage settings, but the wire feed(a separate unit, btw) setting is a potentiometer with a matked dial from 1 to 10. There is no correlation anywhere in the manual or on the feeder that correlates feed dial settings to actual wire feed. I have timed, measured, and marked several settings for the approximate wire speed, but it still requires trying, reading the bead, and adjusting to get it right. There is a downside to running a larger generator, and that is fuel consumption. This is MUCH less of an issue with inverter generators, but it is a very significant issue with conventional generators that scream along at 3600rpm regardless of load. My diesel Lincoln SA 250 cost me less than a new Outlaw from Harbor Fright, and will still be laying beads long after the Outlaw pukes...just like my old Onan generators and transformer machines. One thing that should be brought to attention with generators is load balancing. This isn't an issue when utilizing the 240v output, but if using the 120 outlets, it can potentially let the magic smoke out of the windings. Basically, you don't want a heavy load on one leg of the winding(120 + 120 = 240) and none on the other leg. Distribute the load evenly across the legs whenever possible. I haven't studied the operation of inverter generators enough to know if this still applies, but it certainly does with the older style.
The 30-40% is a pretty wide margin to choose a generator, it really depends on the welder, some have power factor correction, less surge current and so on. I would say refer to the manual rather than assuming a 30-40%.
Hey quick question what generator should I use for Hobart 160i stick welder I can’t use it on my breaker cause it’ll trip it I’m new to welding and I jus wanna practice on it
Great video! You explained it very well. I currently run both a Titanium 225 stick welder, and the Titanium 125 Fluxcore welder, on a conventional Predator generator (9000/7200). The hottest I have ever had to run the stick welder at is 140A. From your chart, I calculate that I will most likely max out around 170A with this combination.
I have metered the 225 and it doesn’t have power factor correction. However its power factor does improve as the amperage goes up. That’s something I briefly mentioned but is an interesting phenomenon (basically the input line loading doesn’t go up that much between say 160 and 180a because it’s not outputting more reactive power). I have tested the 225 at 200amps (7018) and it didnt trip the breaker on the 7600 predator, but it was right there/close. So with yours having a bit less watts 170 should be ok, you may see trips above that. More than enough power to get some decent welding done 😀
Very good overview Greg, and I am sure helpful to many users. As a note, the Lincoln Power MIG 215 has a high power factor of >.98, quite good for generator usage.
Glad to hear the new Lincoln has a good power factor. That’s something you often get with higher quality welders over cheaper ones. Since many manufactures don’t talk much about power factor and many people don’t understand it, it’s easy to think a 500$ mig machine performs as well as a 2k$ one. However when you run on an extension cord or generator the differences become apparent lol.
Man! Thank you! Most of this I know BUT I was going to go way to big with the Predator 9600 inverter but based on your math, I can go with the 7600! You just saved me some serious money! Fortunately all of my welders have PFC!
It’s never a bad thing to go with a bigger generator than needed, however the price difference can be staggering when going up a size in a generator. If you are running your welders on wall power right now it wouldn’t hurt to hook a meter to the power input and max the machine out to see how many amps it pulls. Every welder is a bit different and it pays to know what yours pull 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg a meter is a great idea. All my wall power is 220 amps 50 amp breaker. I loved how you broke down the shop breaker versus generator breaker BTW! To your point, my gut always says go big or go home but I’m pretty sure I could take care of most of my repairs using the 7500. Although, Murphys law…also, I could have picked one up (7500) a couple times on the discount (returned items) area at Hobo freight.
Been debating on upgrading my home electrical or getting a generator. They cost about the same but I can only take one on mobile work. Thank you for all the detailed explanations. All I knew was a regular generator would kill my machine and inverter = $$$$$.
Yeah it is a conundrum of sorts. Super clean pure sine wave is best for modern welders, but they cost a lot. I think the ideal setup is a welder that has PFC. You can get huge output with the smallest generator, thus saving costs. No matter what having a functional mobile 150amp welder setup will cost a lot. I even tested the harbor freight titanium 225 stick machine in the past and due to poor power factor it might hit 130a on a 5k generator before the breaker trips. It’s tough to get useable output/duty cycle (over 150a) for under about 1400-1500$ for a welder and generator setup.
@@ericavery3054 so inverter generators invert DC to Ac current. You could make an inverter that outputs something other than pure sine wave, such as modified sine wave. Generally inverters produce cleaner power than non inverters. Pure sine wave means it more or less is power just like from the wall. Not all inverters output pure sine wave. If it says pure sine wave or low THD that’s what you’re looking for if you want the best longevity for sensitive electronic devices 👍
Now I know what the archeologist that discovered the Dead Sea Scholl's felt like when they realized they found something very profound and important. I've been trying to figure this out for many years, and since I'm not good at figuring out electrical welding stuff , and some have said most anything, I got no where, except being lead to this video. That's all I needed to accidently discover. I've been trying to figure out which generator to buy for home back up that can also allow me to use a mig welder, but knew this is usually a bad combo for success unless you're rich, and didn't know why. You have made a very complex subject simple enough for a certified dumb ass to understand, and I'm the proof. You have saved me probably several more years of trying to figure this out and also from buying thousands of dollars of generators and welders before finding what works. So on that note, let me be the first to say, of all people in this country in this present time that deserves a full size bronze statue of themselves made, you do. Thx Greg from the bottom of my wallet and little brain. Like they say, even a blind chicken finds a little feed. So now I will try to determine the best inverter generator and mig welder to buy that would be the best operating combo that won't drain the 401k. I'll cl out your other videos.
Welcome and I am glad the video helped you out. The truth is the situation is really crappy because it is very difficult to get a straight answer from welder spec sheets as to what they need. I can tell you that if you want to run a mig welder on a generator an average inverter machine will achieve about 160-180a and that’s it on 7500 running watts. If you were to use a esab rouge 190 mig welder, or a esab rebel, you will be able to achieve max output of 190-220 amps (depending on machine) on a 7500 running watt generator. It really comes down to how much output you need. If you plan on mig welding 1/4 inch steel you need 200a of output and thus atleast a 7k running watt generator and an efficient welder. This is where stick comes in handy, you can reliably weld 1/4inch steel with 120a of output. Simply put you can use a much smaller generator and still weld thick plate. Wire welding simply requires more power to weld thicker material. Edit: also as a bit of info that I left out of that video, avoid a 120v welder at all costs on a generator. Virtually every 120v only or 120v dual voltage machine significantly overloads a 120v circuit. This is a huge problem because generators are generally not capable of generating more than 30 amps on 120v. Many of the 120v welders will load up the generator above 30a, causing breaker trips or generator shut downs. Even my predator 7500 running watt can’t handle much welder output on the 30a socket on 120v. So whatever welder you buy make sure it’s either dual voltage or 240v only.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thx so much again, Greg. I had been planning on getting a 10500 inv gen and getting a Hobart 200 MPW. I called Hobart and asked them if they had any power correction factor built into the machine and they said yes, I would not have any problem using the multi purpose Handler 200 on a 7500 inv gen. He said any of the Handler series would have the PCF built in. I do not plan on welding more than 3/16' steel and 1/8" alum on tig. So before I found your info, I was off and ready to go with Hobart. This world would be so much easier if people were honest and didn't tell you half the story just so they can sell their products.
Glad to hear that. It sucks the whole situation is so complicated. My goal with the video was to help people understand enough that they don’t end up waiting thousands and getting a setup that works poorly. Welders and generators aren’t cheap, especially if the setup doesn’t work.
Perfect video I’m planning on doing this myself. I have the Vulcan 220 Omni pro multi process welder. Was going to have 220 electric ran to my garage. But I am thinking about selling my house and moving out of this state. So a generator would probably make more sense for my situation. I plan on picking up the exact same generator in this video.
I am not sure if the Omni pro has power factor correct but you should be able to get 180-200 amps out of the machine on the same generator . That’s for mig, for tig you could easily get 200+ (it runs on less output voltage) and atleast 150a on stick. Definitely enough to tackle a ton of jobs.
You definitely put some good information out,sometimes I personally am not the best listening person. Ive mentioned to you before I have a hobart champion elite 225and autoarc 182, I plan on running off it at times. The hobart is new ive only used 6011,7018 1/8 " for me smoother than my favorite little thunderbolt. Even tho the auto arc weighs about as much as the hobart , I traded for it used works great on 4 out of 5 tap and idk 3- 425 ipm ( if correct) on 035 e71-gs . Runs great on 50a breaker and from a couple places im guessing at least 30 to. I haven't had to use the auto arc off the hobart generator but being 11000 id thought be fine. I was considering a smaller generator probably inverter i guess to primarily plug truck block keater and 1 or two heating pads and possibly battery tender but probably just heater and a pad on transmission pan . But also when not plugging truck in and on a job run cut off saw,grinders,lights,radio etc. Off the cheaper generator vs the hobart racking up hours. Just seeing if you had any input and if it sounds like something only a dipshit would try 😆
11k watts should be good to go to power that. You’re talking 45 amps actual output power at 240v, which is a lot of output power via a welder. Most of the time welders are nowhere near maxed out and the power that has is more than enough to do some solid welds without issue.
No problem, glad you liked it 😀. It sucks how costly it is to get a setup that works and will be reliable. So many people want to run welders on generators that I figured it was worth doing a video on it so people don’t end up wasting money or damaging their equipment.
i just got this for a snow storm coming, figured it was a good time to get a welder to go with it, got the yeswelder dp200 multiprocess. we’ll see how she does.
You should be able to atleast hit 170amps of output before you might trip the breaker 👍. Good luck with the snow storm, I am not sure where you are at but some states are going to get hammered. It pays to have a generator no doubt, it sucks when big power outages happen due to line damage.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg im in va, we didn’t get what they were hyping up, maybe 5-6 inches in my area. im going to keep the 9500, seems to be a decent gen. i dont see why i would need much more than 170a for what im doing.Thanks for your reply and great video!
Another fascinating and informative video! Did you know that the power companies themselves have to be concerned about Power Factor on their service lines? Drive around an industrial area, where the load is mostly inductive motors. There will be poles with unusual can-looking things on them that are NOT transformers. These are capacitor banks. It's all about balancing the inductive and capacitive reactance their lines see. Too much inductive load is bad, so they have to add capacitance to the line to balance it out. I have to wonder if you can add capacitors to an older welder to make it more efficient in this regard. Probably not, that would be too easy...
Excellent post and thanks for sharing. I am sure you could add capacitance to a transformer machine, that is exactly what miller and Lincoln did with their dial arc/ideal arc welders that had the PFC option. I have never tested one that had it (I owned 3 ideal arc 250s, none had it) but I have a suspicion the capacitor setup they had would only significantly improve the power factor at higher outputs. Since industry gets penalized by poor power factor it would make sense to use a capacitor to help the welder under a load. I have read that under light loads/idle the capacitor equipped versions have pretty high reactive power numbers. Under a load they will hit max output on a 50-60a breaker vs a 90a without pfc, so that’s a huge difference. The modern welders with PFC can maintain excellent PF on 120-240v and at all outputs, which is obviously superior to the older welders, but the old machines still weld excellent 😀
Very Informative video my friend. Thanks for all the sweat that you put into same. Much Appreciated... It's refreshing to find one that is a Master at his craft. Thumbs Up... Subscribed...
I cant decide if he sounds more like Steve Quail or Jesse Ventura. Regardless, I'm halfway through the vid now, cant wait to watch the rest, this is extremely useful, thank you so much for sharing. New Sub.
Glad you like the video. The main takeaway of what I want people to learn with from it is that the issue is far more complex that what it appears and unfortunately many welders simply won’t work properly on a generator. Considering how much generators and welders cost, damaging either one is a bad situation to be in. A great example of how complicated it is, I tried to run an arc captain 120v welder on the predator 9500. It wouldn’t weld even 1/8th material without almost killing the generator. The generator can’t produce enough power on the 30a plug to power the little welder, because it grossly overloads the circuits. The machine used matters so much and so many flat out perform poorly because they grossly overload circuits lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Sir, you deserve some kind of award for putting all this info together and also for the time it took to put it into a coherent, understandable video. Thanks 1M to you!! 🙏 Yes, from what you said that makes sense, definitely a complex issue. The setup you mention in this comment is very similar to one I have been considering, so I'm very grateful to hear your experience 🙏. I have been leaning for a long time towards the Primeweld TIG welders, either 225 or 325, largely because I don't think I will ever be in a situation with them where I wish I had a bigger welder, plus their great customer service reputation. I want to call them and see if they have suggestions on running those machines on a generator. I will report back here when I do. I have been considering the arccaptain / yeswelder range mostly just because they are so extremely cheap and I thought it might be a neat way to start practicing stick and TIG (I only have a 110 FCAW right now). Since I cant justify the expense of a nice engine driven welder, I also had a fantasy that their small size might make them suitable for remote work with a generator ... that wish is quickly fading.
7:00 voltage drop on a generator from high load is corrected by spinning them faster... tho, 75Hz will blow up the little engine they use... need a bigger engine to drive them at the right speed. ... ether way the surge watts thru a 200amp service go right thru a 50amp braker for some time before it actually trips. just like a duty cycle, 50amp 250v is 100% but they can transfer 80amp to 140amp 250 volt for nearly 10 seconds as a thought... so if a generator has a 30amp 250v braker, it is expected to trip when using some larger current settings. one 3/16 E7018 trips a 30amp 250v braker after it is fully used. ... 30amp running 45amp for some time before it shuts off... so if you want it to trip at 50amp's ya need to install a 40amp braker... 200amp service will surge up to 350amp 250 volt, tho that 20 seconds or 90Kw/hr will absolutely tick off nearly everyone on the grid causing lights to go dim and other furnace motors to stall etc... nothing is built to all be used at the same time... would need nearly 8 train engines to power a 60watt light bulb for everyone in a city of 50'000. just one light bulb per population is enough to black out a station in most places... but if its cold outside, their just going to burn things to make heat so electrical power is a given byproduct of what they do regardless of what it is. required to turn things on, to get the power lines hot enough to prevent ice buildup. tho if the wire gauge in a generator is 12 gauge, it can output 40amp 250 volt for a long time... can run 3/16 E7018 thru a 100ft 14 gauge extension cable, the wire just gets hot and very flaccid. as long as the rpm stays up tho 75hz was... not safe for sensitive things, because the voltage goes up as they spin faster... 180v 45hz, 220v 50hz, 240v 60hz, 280v 75hz etc.
😅 tripping generator brakers... wrap a 12gauge wire from one end of it to the other on both terminals, its the vibration of the engine that trips them at lower current's.
3/16 6010 rod runs clean as low as 45amp on the machine "on the machine output setting dial"... they run, but nothing is to code at that larger rod size unless that combination of processing equipment is actually tested independently. using certified force gauges, its not just about bending to look for cracks... actually have to measure the pound force to rip it apart when trimmed to an exact cross sectional aria. 🤣if it cant run a 3/16 6010, it cant legally run a 1/16 6010 ether!
Thank you for the very informative video. Do you think there are ways to improve power factor on a cheaper welder? Say an inline power factor correction device like used in large commercial motors. Believe a bank of capacitors is used. Or another approach use a variable frequency drive to clean up the power?
Looked into isolation transformers price aside there is a 13% loss associated with the transformer. There has to be a solution without sacrifice to efficiency. Maybe get a rotary phase converter inline to stabilize the sine wave and isolate the generator from the welder.
Great video! In the manual my 285 amp multiprocess inverter welder power factor is listed at 0.73 and efficiency at 80%. Lol i was thinking of just getting a westinghouse 20000 running watts because i want to run other things also
Those stats seem entirely plausible and probably realistic. That welder would consume 10,260 watts to output max amperage at 30 volts. Add in the reactive power and you’re definitely going to need a 50amp breaker. On the low end a 12k generator would possibly handle it, but I definitely would look at 14-15k or bigger to ensure the best reliability and functioning.
I remember doing this years ago, the generator itself have a signwave rating, i think mine has a 6 which is ok, i think the lower the number the dirtier the signwave is, a lot of the new generators have very dirty signwaves. Yeah inverters dont like generators, great vid well explained, thanks from Ireland.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg now you got me thinking, I'm wondering would a Balun, choke or Toroidal inductor between generator and welder, work I think I've seen them inside welders, basically to cut down EMI, maybe I'm taking out of the box. I used them in my CB radio to clean up the signal imput to quite down RFI, I deffo seen choked in welders. Again thinking out of the box. Thanks for the reply.
Thank you for the great video, I currently own a Lincoln 180weld pak with a 230v plug and I’m having trouble figuring out what type of power generator I should purchase. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
The weld pack 180 doesn’t list much for power consumption other that 20amps at rated power (130a). Based on that figure it would need atleast 28amps to hit max output. A realistic number would be a 7500running watt generator would fully power that welder.
This is s great video! Lot’s of useful information. But for a novice like me, this is kinda overkill. I was hoping for brand and model recommendations so I didn’t purchase a bad generator. Your video opened with harbor 9500 inverter generator pictured, I will go with that. Thanks for the video!
The hardest part is every welder has different demands and finding a setup that works can be very hard. The predator 9500 is a great generator that outputs clean power than welders prefer. The limitation of the 9500 really comes down to the welder itself. You can get between 170-230 amps of mig output, 100-230 amps of stick output, and 130-250amps of tig output on the generator based on what machine. A safe bet would be 180a of mig, 160a of stick, and 200a of tig. That is more than enough to handle a ton of serious welding jobs. If you need more output than that, you would need to get up to the 12k class of generators and a true 50a outlet.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all that information wow I’ve learned so much I’ve recently purchased a esab ruffian 150 with the hopes of running a tig setup off it as esab marketing as you can hope that real lol
The ruffian is a solid welder for stick. Even though its generator section is limited on power, with tig you can still get a lot of output. Tig operates at 12-16 volts for the most part, so you should be able to get in the ballpark of 170-180 amps of Tig output from a tig welder. That’s provided it’s an inverter and has power factor correction. Tig is also easier on a generator because you start the arc and slowly ramp up the amperage, it’s not an instant hit like stick or mig. If you would like to tig weld with that I would highly suggest picking up a new or used miller maxstar 161, fronius 180, or esab rogue 180/200. All of those welders have excellent efficiencies and have power factor correction.
So I wanted to know if I were to buy 2 Honda 7000 inverter generators with the parallel kit and an adapter (from the 30amp outlet to a 50amp outlet) would it power a high frequency machine like an htp or prime weld that requires 10000 running watts? My main concern is that the outlet on the Honda generator is a 30 amp outlet and i think I need a 50 amp outlet to maximize the machine. How would an adapter work with a parallel kit set up? Thank you! I keep coming back to this video😃
Glad the hear the video helped you out. There is a ton of info in it and you found something I definitely didn’t cover, paralleling generators lol. If you were to run two of them paralleled you would basically split the load on both, which would give you significantly more power. Honda makes excellent generators and would work fine for that. When it comes to welders having 10k+ running watts is where you really need to be to run any 200-220 amp class machine. A 200amp mig machine (with power factor correction)at 25v output could output 200a on a 6k running watt generator, without PFC you would need 7500-9k depending on its efficiency. Running two generators with over5k running watts each would give more than enough power to run any inverter machine up to around 220a output. My esab rebel 235 could easily hit 250a on that setup, which is some serious output. The parallel kits are easy to use and typically come with a 50a plug and a setup where you can actually get 40+ amps out of it. Depending on how much longer I am at the tin shed I may end up buying a second predator and running both to get more output as needed.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I checked the parallel kit that is made for the Honda generator and it looks like it doesn’t have the 50amp outlet it’s still the 30amp. Can I use other brand parallel kit such as the one for the predator generators if I end up using the Honda generators? If not then can I use an adapter from the 30amp outlet to 50amp if I use the Honda parallel kit? Thk u!
I have a arccaptain mig 200 amp inverter machine. I was looking at the inverter generators from harbor freight. What size would you recommend? Plan on mainly mig using tge 220 outlet.
So most 200 amp inverters need a minimum of 30amp breaker to output 180-200a. So a realistic minimum would be around 7k running watts minimum. If you absolutely need 100% of its 200a output you would need something like a 8k running watt generator realistically. At lower outputs (140a and less) you could use a smaller generator (say a 5500 running watt).
Great info! Im looking to power a 315amp inverter welder for ac tig welding with a generator. What can you recomend? I work in the marine industry and need to weld on the field.
You’re going to need a substantial generator to power that. When you start taking 300amp + inverters the power consumption generally goes up. Most 300amp machines tend to only be efficient when designed for/run on 3 phase power. Most don’t have that great of power factor or efficiency to be honest. The bare minimum generator you would want is 13k running watt, and that’s if your tig machine is at the highest level of efficiency. You could wind up pretty easily at 15k running watt to be able run at 300a. To maintain longevity of everything you need to get a low THD generator, which are far more common in the 12k watt+ class than in the sub 9k.
Thank you so much for in-lighting us . I guess if you weld railway rails , you got what it takes, but for us "farm welders" mobility is important . What is your views on Car/truck alternator welders? The new battery powered welders? or the good old story with 3 car batteries and you are good to go? Can any of these do decent reliable welding in the field?
So I have welded with car batteries but I have not welded with one of those onboard alternator/generator setups. I do a lot of serious off roading and do on trail repairs. I actually use a portable acetylene setup pretty often for trail repairs. I actually just ordered a battery welder so you will see that in future videos. The biggest limitation of any portable setup is sizing it for the expected use. A small engine drive welder can weld all day with a couple gas cans worth of fuel. The battery powered welders like the fronius and esab can only run 14-30 3/32 rods, which is not much. The fronius battery unit can weld and charge at the same time on a small 2500 watt generator. The bigger engine drive welders (think trailblazer 325) can air arc which saves huge time over grinding cracks/failed welds out, and can weld for 2-3k hours without major issues. The smaller welder generators often require far more maintenance (many don’t have oil filters) and flat out don’t last as long. For the average person doing small in field repairs in the area and on a farm, I would much rather have a small engine drive welder over a battery powered unit, alternator welder, etc. they are simple, work reliably, and you have enough power. Battery welders are great for stick/tig welding inside factories or on an off road trail where even a small size generator is too big to haul around.
That’s the generator I have and it’s proven to work great. It still pays to have a welder with PFC. The fp200 in this video (typical 200amp mig machine) will trip the 30a breaker on the generator at the higher end of its output. It’s actually 90% efficient but the poor power factor causes excessive input loading, thus breaker trips. It runs my dynasty perfect (which is very sensitive for input voltage), and under heavy loads the voltage remains stable/pure sine wave holds up. I am happy with the 9500, It should do good for you. Make sure you pickup a magnetic oil dipstick for it, there is no oil filter so you want atleast a magnet on the dipstick to capture metal particles.
I have recently purchased a millermatic 140 120v machine … I also found a killer deal on a axemen 8000/6500 inverter generator to run it to be able to practice . Since I live in an apartment … This should be sufficient????? Also the 120v 30amp receptacle on the generator is different than the 3prong on the welder . Can I just wire the correct plug into the welder wire and remove the 3prong on the machine cord ??
Congrats on the setup and I think you should be able to weld with it. The miller 140 should have high enough power factor that it should be able to achieve near max output if not max output on a 30 am outlet. You will 100% want to put that on a 30amp 120 outlet. The generator 20amp circuit will trip, unlike a household 20 amp which won’t. Generators have far less forgiveness when it comes to loads over a breaker rating. They often times only achieve their max output with multiple breakers used and a balanced load. Which brings up an important point. Most welders will run better on 240v vs 120 because the generator can only handle so much output on a single leg of the output. Take my generator for example, it can do 7600 running watts. It can only do that if both hot wires are used, be it 240 or 120 with multiple outlets used. A single side of the generator can’t handle 7600 watts. This becomes a major problem because many cheap 120-140a welding machines will load the input line to 35a due to reactive power and poor efficiency. Well even my 7600 running watt generator can’t handle that much load so the welding machine overloads it. I ran into this exact problem with an arc captain 130a welder, it almost kills the generator just to weld 1/8th material because it’s trying to place a 35a load on the 30a circuit lol. It still does the same on a house hold circuit, but the voltage doesn’t drop like it does on a generator. As far as the 30a 120 outlet, you can get 30a adapters to 20amp from hardware stores or Amazon. The welder will run on that fine, and that breaker will function more like a 20a household breaker.
Great video alot of information in this thank you!! Quick question I have a 9500W PEAK AND 7600W running (inverter generator with a 50A 240plug) (pulsar is the brand) and a inverter welding machine that’s rated at 50A at 230V do you think I would have any problems with that ? I haven’t actually tested it yet still trying to break in the generator
So 50a at 240v is 12000 watts. It’s very common for generators to have “50 amp” outlets but not enough power to hit that. Depending on what welder it is you may be able to hit max output. Many welders use a 50amp plug despite not needing it. For mig your generally limited to 200a for an inverter on 7600 running watts, stick about 170amp, tig about 210. It could be more or Less depending on machine.
You sir have a new subscriber here! You broke that down to about as simple as someone with your knowledge can and my lightning slow mind is still trying to compute lol.... I have a 8750w/7000w Wen pure sine wave inverter generator and a 220 Vulcan Omnipro inverter welder. How do I find out if the welder is power factor? or can you please tell me what the max I can tig weld without burning anything up? Ive been out of work for a few months and need to practice my tig for a new job but at the same time trying not to go over using 2000 kw to save on my electric bill and thought that maybe I can just use the generator and not run my electric bill up. I definately dont want to fry either machine and in all reality I'm not so sure I'd actually be saving any money this way.Thx
So the power factor would have to be either calculated via a measuring device, or found in the manual of the machine. Odds are it would have .55 to .70 power factor. A good indication of low power factor is if you amp meter an input wire and your meter reads a lot of amperage (ie over 35amps). The device is likely pushing reactive power back to the generator and its true power use is much less. The problem is the generator has to deal with this reactive power so it can cause issues. As far as output is concerned, tig operates at a low output voltage. 200amps at 15 volts is 3,000 watts. Even with a poor power factor and average inverter efficiency, you should be able to hit 180-200a on that generator. I have doubts you would be able to hit max output of 220 but 180-190 should be ok.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thank you so very much Greg. What a prompt reply. That made my day 😊 I thought for sure I wouldn't be able to crank it up to 180 amps without causing any damages and definitely was not aware that tig uses lower voltage. Man I really need to learn more about voltage and amps. So I'm guessing with stick welding I'd be ok too since I probably won't go more than 125 amps with 7018 but I did see something about adding 25% on top if using 6010
What inverter generator do you recommend to power the Vulcan Omnipro 220. Do you think the Champion 8750/7000 inverter generator will work in conjunction with said welder? Very informative video with a lot of good information.
I have not hands on tested the 220, but I looked up its manual. Based on what I am seeing it seems to be efficient but I am unsure if it has power factor correction. A normal 200amp inverter non power factor corrected mig machine will need a full 30 amp breaker (7,200 running watt) to hit 180-200amps output. It will be that or better. If I had to take a guess I bet you could hit 200amps mig output on a 7k running watt generator. I bet the breaker would trip above that. Stick output somewhere around 160amps. Realistically that is quite a bit of power and if you want to do mobile repairs it should tackle a majority of what you might want to do.
I've been looking at whole house generator sets. Are they a possibility for running an inverter welder? I've seen some used ones for a reasonable price with higher KW ratings.
You could run an inverter on a whole house generator (or a conventional generator). If either is a low THD generator you should have good longevity of the welder. I am unsure if whole house generators are low THD or not. I am also unsure as to how those generators are designed from an intended use perspective. If they are used for emergency and not designed for a lot of use (aka no oil filters, difficulty to service them, etc) they may not be the best option. A normal portable generator is easy to service and will also often run on propane or gas, whole house generators don’t typically run on gas, something to think of when it comes to capabilities.
In my dads garage there is time delay fuses and as far as the manual on my hobart 210mvp it specifies having a 30amp time delay on 230v. So is a time delay fuse better than a traditional breaker? The garage is on a 50amp breaker that feeds the garage from the house panel. I wish i understood more about electricity lol i believe on a normal breaker it specifies 35 amp breaker for the 210mvp
So time delay fuses work just like a breaker. They will allow overcurrent through them for a short period of time. They won’t allow more current through them than a standard breaker, and once they “blow” you must replace them. The 210mvp should run on a 30a time delay fuse without issue at higher output. If you had a normal fuse you would probably need a 40a fuse and the power wire to support it.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg my grandfather wired in our old tombstone into the panel on that 30amp circuit. So I need to disconnect it and run some 6 or 8 guage out of the panel in the garage to a nema 6-50R surface mount receptacle to be able to use my 210 on 230. Kind of a bummer but should be easily done
@@makingmistakeswithgreg the main power feed run into the garage I believe is direct burial aluminum wire to feed the garage and its quite thick don't know the guage off hand
The maxstar 161 is a extremely efficient welder and likely has power factor correction. I bet it would achieve its max output of 160a with stick on a 4500 running watt generator. Scratch start tig would require even less generator power. Keep in mind at reduced power output (say 120a) you would likely be able to run it on a 3500 running watt generator. You must be careful though, a household outlet doesn’t have poor power output or the voltage drop that a generator can, so using it on a undersized generator or on one with dirty power will likely lower the longevity of the welder.
Great video greg you’re really helping out the new generation with your unique knowledge I really appreciate it. So I’ve been wanting a dynasty 400 and I was wondering what are your thoughts if you hook it up to a miller big blue 500 generator???The generator supplies 20k of running watts on three phase using a 240v 50amp receptacle. On the dynasty 400 specification sheet 20k running watts is what is required. Do you think the breaker on the big blue 500 generator would trip???….On the dynasty 400 the (amps input for rated load output for 230v) using 3phase at 300amps is 33.
Thanks for the kind words 😀. Regarding your question, I looked up a bunch of spec sheets, did some calculations, and came to the conclusion I don’t believe the breaker would trip. The dynasty 400 is highly efficient but I am unsure if it has power factor correction though (the 210/300 do). I would assume it does. The rated amp load is 33a but that’s at 300amp 32v. At 400amp it would be in the ballpark of 55 amps. Although that’s slightly over your breaker rating, that would require absolutely maxing the machine out, and the big blue shouldn’t have any issues handling that kind of load. One of the more unique things with tig is it operates at lower voltage than most other welding processes. So say 300 amps with TIG is far less power consumed on the input than 300a with stick. My guess is at 400a with tig it probably wouldn’t hit over 50a, especially because of the 3phase input has more average input voltage than single phase. You should be good to go with that combo.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg 😃 thanks for your input I was really looking forward to this video for a while. I did send an email to miller as well and they said it should be good just to keep the big blue 500 on high idle but I also wanted your thoughts I trust you. Hey I’m trying to make some kind of mobile aluminum welding business. Just curious what kind of aluminum work have you done? What are some ideas for an aluminum business if you don’t mind me asking? Thank u!
Awsome video! I saw a guy running a 5500 watt generator with Lincoln ac 225 at 90amps im guessing 3/32 rod , im not sure how it worked so well for him . I have 5000 Running watt inverter generator all i can do on my lincon is 40 amps with 1/16 6013 rods haha
So a 5500 wtt generator (if thats running watts) would probably power a tombstone at 90 but barely. One thing you have to remember is that tombstone is basically just a transformer and doesn’t care what the input voltage is. More than likely the input voltage was dropping well under what it should be and the generator (being non inverter) doesn’t care about that. Inverter generators do a much better job of regulating output voltage. As that tombstone setup loaded the generator and the output voltage dropped on the generator, the amperage output on the welder would drop. My guess is that 90a setting was probably more like 80a or less actual output. With the Inverter welder you have it will likely power off due to low input voltage rather than allowing you to weld.
Is there a difference say doing aluminum over regular steel on a welder as far as how much generator I would need I’m looking to run a prime weld 225 to do aluminum side work nothing thicker than maybe 3/8-1/4” thick would the inverter predator 9500 work for something like that or would I be looking at something with more power?.
So I have ran my dynasty 210 on my 9500 predator. The generator will power the dynasty at 210a out on a/c without tripping the 30a breaker. Keep in mind the dynasty has power factor correction and is very efficient at max output. I have a feeling the primeweld 225 would need 35a to 40a in to output its max. It would probably output around 180 amps on the predator 9500, possibly a bit more. To get the full output a 10-11k generator would likely be needed. Edit: the huge benefit you have with tig is it operates at low output voltage. You can get far more output amperage with tig over stick. The primeweld would probably only hit 160a with stick on a 9500 generator.
I know this question is probably crazy but with a 140 welder from harbor freight it uses 120v so what generator would you recommend if one can't affored the higher dollar ones.
So I have a video coming out on this exact idea and it will be out within a week. In the meantime hopefully this helps: The feasibility of a 120v welder on a cheap generator is poor at best. The issue is literally every 120v welder grossly overloads breakers. It’s not uncommon for a 120v welder to load the input line to 30-37 amps. A household breaker will handle this but a generator breaker won’t. Not to mention it will cause a destruction of the a/c wave form due to the overload on a generator. In simple terms most 120v welders run extremely poorly on a generator. The only way this might work reasonably well would be with a power factor corrected welder, they are more efficient and are less likely to cause the generators power to become dirty. Edit: I forgot to mention but I tried running a yes welder and arc captain 120v flux core machines on my 9500 generators 30amp 120 outlet. Both of them overloaded it trying to weld just 1/8th steel and both shut themselves off. A purely transformer welder will likely work better but the generator won’t like it much still lol.
I'm looking at a generator for a welder. The Welder output will do Tig 250A/20V at 60% Duty. I'm just doing Tig, so I won't do more than that. That gives 250a x 20v = 5000watts. + 20% power over = 6000watts. So I'd need a Generator with 6000+ watts. Is this correct? Thanks
It will come down to the power factor of the machine. Poor power factor will cause reactive power to trip breakers despite the machine not actually consuming enough power to cause breaker trips. 250a is pretty significant, and many tig welders capable of that output are not designed with power factor correction. On face value 250a at 20v is 5k watts of output. The most efficient machines are 90% efficient at best. That means about 5500 watts is the minimum in theory. In reality you’re going to need a bigger generator than that. I believe the esab rebel 235 I have (capable of 250a of tig) could hit 250a on a 30a breaker on a 7500 running watt generator. I know for a fact most 250a machines will never hit 250amp on anything less than a 40a breaker and some on a 50. If you truly need 250a you have two options: Buy a very efficient power factor corrected welder and a 6500-7500 running watt generator, or buy a inefficient welder and a 10-12k generator to get a 50a breaker. I know that’s kind of a convoluted situation, but that’s the reality. Welders overload house breakers really bad and when trying to run on a generator they can’t be overloaded the same.
I have a 10kw generator with 50amp breaker 240 vac, and when running my cheap primeweld ct520dp multiprocess machine on stick at anywhere above 100amps when I strike an arc the generator will load up and its governor will increase its speed, but this results in a dip in current at my welding electrode and the arc will usually go out, it doesn't trip the breaker but it does make for a very frustrating welding experience. Any tips on ways I could correct this? I've thought about adjusting the running speed of the generator to run faster, but this likely throws off the output for other things and I depend on this generator for a lot of stuff as I live off grid and need it to run my well pump. I've corrected it in the past by using smaller electrodes and lowering the current output on the welder, but that makes a quick job a lot more difficult and takes a lot longer, thus consuming more fuel and costing more money. It's maddening. Any suggestions would be welcome, thanks for all your great videos!
Man that sucks. I have a couple thoughts. How good are you at stick welding? If you struggle to start an arc occasionally it could create what I call a “death spiral” where the generator will ramp up and down attempting to handle the load. This may be what’s going on. My first thought was 100a of stick would be in the area of at worst 5-6k watts even with poor power factor since that machine is an inverter. Your generator has a lot more power than that available. I would experiment with putting a 1-2k watt load (think electric heater) on the generator and then running the welder with the load already on it. The generator may be off idle and able to respond to the welder demand better. Adjusting the idle a bit higher may help, but you want to monitor the voltage. Welders can handle 240v plus or minus a bit (remember 240v is the rms value, peak is over 300). You definitely don’t want to be inputting 280v rms. What you described is also somewhat typical. On a house with instantaneous power, you flat out don’t have a lot of issues with welders. With generators every generator is different with how it responds to a load, and every welder functions different. I have noticed the more expensive welders universally work better on a generator than cheaper ones, but even then it’s no guarantee. I wish it wasn’t such a disaster getting things to work right.
@makingmistakeswithgreg thank you so much for that suggestion, I have noticed that if there is a small load on the generator that is generally responds better. As for how good a welder I am, I honestly couldn't tell you since I learned using this set up, I might be fantastic at it if I had regular grid power lol. My welds generally look the way I want them to and preform well under the stresses they're used for so I guess that's an indication that they aren't too bad. I haven't yet tried the tig function on my primeweld machine since I don't really have access to argon being remote in alaska, but I do plan on learning that at some point, hopefully not using the generator. Mig isn't really an option here for the same reason unless you were to use flux core. Rural Alaska is a great place, but in many ways it's a huge pain in the ass. Anyway thanks again for your help and I hope you have a wonderful day!
My current “mobile” setup is a predator 4375 generator with an esab rogue 180i using a 50 amp welder plug adapter to the 4 prong adapter. With welding with 1/8 6011 on ~90 amps, would I be running out of juice on the generator? It bogs down the motor on startup, which I plan to solve with a high idle. Would I be able to run 1/8 7018 at 120 amps?
So the rogue 180 (which I owned a while back) is virtually the same efficiency as the 200 rogue. It has power factor correction and is highly efficient. 6011 takes about 28 volts to run, and about 2780 watts to operate. That’s within the range of what the generator will handle. What’s likely going on is the generators response to the load isn’t fast enough to carry the initial inrush. If you have hot start enabled that could also bring the load near max. If the welder functions ok and welds fine you could monitor the input voltage to verify it’s not dropping too far. Raising the idle may help but be careful you don’t have excessively high voltage. As far as 1/8th 7018 vs 1/8th 6011, here is the answer: 1/8th 6011 operates at 28 or so volts and 90a, which is 2520 watts. 1/8th 7018 operates as about 23v and 120amps, or about 2760 watts. It’s close, but a bit higher. Edit: I forgot to mention I believe the rogue series operates at about 8-10 amps higher than the setpoint. If you run 90a on a 6011 with hot start you will probably hit 100a+ the hot start or 3500 watts load. So you likely are loading the generator up a bit. My predator 9500 doesn’t even notice 90a on a 6010 or 120 on a 7018.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I noticed it does seem to be a bit spicy. No trouble running 1/8 6011 even down to 75-80 amps. This welder is the first I bought, largely based on your recommendation and it is seriously badass. I’m having trouble with knowing what settings are best, partly due to the inconsistency of my welds but for example, if I’m running 6011, do I put it in 6010 mode? Or just run it normal stick mode with some arc force added in there? When I do need hot start? I normally weld anything from 1/8 to 1/4 to just glue shit together that’s broken or cracked
I have a Honda EU7000is (5,500w continuous) inverter generator and would like to get a Miller 215. Do you think that's too much welder and I should pick up a Miller 211 instead?
So here are my thoughts on that. Both those welders will probably draw the same current at say 150a output. So buying one over the other won’t give you the ability to get more power. The limit to how much power you could get out of that welder on 5500 running watts is in the ballpark of 165-180 amps output. It’s possible it could be as low as 155a depending on how well the generator handles the welder. You wouldn’t be able to max out either machine on that generator unfortunately.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks for the reply! Do you have any recommendations for a similarly high quality mig welder that would be a better match for that generator?
You don’t have to. Inverter generators typically output the same quality of a/c power as the wall outlet. Non inverters output less pure sine wave. Many inverter welders would prefer to have pure sine wave. If in doubt contact the welders manufacture as to what they would recommend. Most will specify “low THD” which is normally found mostly on inverters.
So i just purchased a wen inverter generator with 4800 watts surging and 4000 watts running. I have an arccaptain 200 mig multiprocess welder and now im wondering if the generator will be suffice to run the welder doing hobby type work seldomly?
So 4000 watt running might get to about 90-110a of output on that machine. The arc captain machine doesn’t have power factor correction so it will cause a load up on the input side. Also, if the generator is 240v you must run the welder on 240. If it’s only capable of 120v you will probably barely get above 70a of output on the welder before it trips the breaker. 100amps of wire would limit you to around 1/8th material or so.
@makingmistakeswithgreg so the generator has the RV ready plug that is the larger 3 prong that's rated at 30 amps. I had bought an adapter to go from that outlet to the 240 plug in. Would that be ok. It's a TT 30 rv 30amp to a 6 50
It should be noted that breakers are not there to protect your equipment. Breakers are there to prevent the wiring from overheating and starting electrical fires.
You are correct. And breakers don’t monitor the output quality either, so a generator could be outputting pure trash that will damage the welder, without the breaker tripping. There are a lot of sketchy cheap generators out there 😮.
So the 295 amp welder would need a 70a breaker more than likely to get anywhere near max output. The most actual output I think you would see on a 9300 watt generator with that stick welder is probably 110amps before the breaker would trip. It would weld with most 3/32 rods but that’s about it. As far as the wire welder that should run on the generator just fine. You may trip the 120v breaker more on the generator than a house outlet though, depending on how sensitive the generators breakers are.
So I should be OK to run my Lincoln Mig 180 with a Champion 11250 Start 9000 Run watt Generator....YES???? and would it be better to plug into the 50 amp plug?????
So the mig 180 will run on a 9k running watt generator just fine. I would run it off the highest outlet amperage it has. Keep in mind that generator doesn’t output pure sine wave, but it should be clean enough that the welder should be ok. Make sure if the generator has adaptive idle (aka it runs slow with no load) that you avoid using that for the welder. It can cause a big voltage drop when you start the arc.
If it's actually a reputable company, I'd scroll to the reviews and ctrl-f search for "welder" or "welding" to see if anyone else has used it for that purpose. What generator have you found with those specs?
If it’s low THD it should be low enough to run more “sensitive” electronics on. Generally speaking under 5% THD would qualify for “low” The problem is, actual low THD generators that aren’t inverters are pretty uncommon below 10k watt output. I know they are out there, just uncommon. Edit: also, it pays to check in the manual or contact the manufacture. Lincoln and miller generally specify low THD. Some welders I have seen flat out say “not to be run on a generator”. That may be partly to scare people into not plugging them into a dirty power generator and causing it to fail.
@@pm-bn9zt Thank you, definitely going to check that out. Edit: Holy crap... At that price, I'd be willing to put my Vulcan Omnipro 220 on the line. I'm going to upgrade the welder eventually anyway.
@@pm-bn9ztHey man, the 13,000/10,000 Powerhorse is $200 off right now on Northern Tool. I just ordered one. Including tax and lift gate service, $2035
So I actually ran that same welder on the generator. At near 200amps the output starts to get really wonky. At 120amps for a 7018 and 90 for a 6010 you will be 100% fine. You shouldn’t have any longevity or functioning issues below about 160amps. That welder doesn’t have power factor correction, which is why it loads up a generator pretty good.
Roger that, I have this genny and rarely weld above 130 amps. So I figured I would be good but hadn’t tested for myself. So glad to hear this!! Thanks partner
Hey Greg. Your knowledge is impressive. I am just curious...do you have an engineering degree or did you just learn this stuff via your own research? Again, thank you for putting out content that helps us novices!
I don’t have an engineering degree, but I do have an associates degree the law field with a ton of other credits in random things (welding, plumbing, auto, etc). Most of what I know with electrical came from playing with tvs and electronics for the last 30+ years and accumulating useless info. I also worked for 14 years as a plant operator and worked with industrial electricians so you pickup a lot of info 😀.
Thank you. Gaining knowledge doesn't always have to come from a formal, academic setting. Hands-on education can often be the best way. And now, I can benefit from your knowledge. Have a great day!
Seeing these power consumption tables, only one statement comes to my mind: God bless the three-phase power grid in Poland. 😆 My mig esab 340c runs on a three-phase 16-amp breaker. And the fronius iwave 230i is satisfied with a single-phase 16-amp breaker. And according to the manufacturer, a generator with a continuous power of 5 kW is enough for it.
3 phase is available in the USA, but not at a house unfortunately. You guys are a bit ahead of the US when it comes to electrical lol. One of the interesting things is the big push here for electric everything (cars and even furnaces). The average house here doesn’t have anywhere near the electrical capability to run an electric furnace.
One upside to the transformer welders is that take will take dirty power all day without an issue. No need for a fancy inverter or low THD generator with them. So you can go big and dirty to feed them.
I probably forgot to mention that, and you’re 100% correct. I would imagine the output may be slightly off in comparison to being hooked to the wall, but they will definitely have minimal concerns over failing due to dirty power. Considering you can get pretty big dirty power generators for fairly cheap, it’s definitely an option. I just don’t want to lift the welder into a truck to do a mobile job 😅. Perfect for a farm though.
What are the cheapest five PFC mig welders? the rogue isn't too crazy at $800-$900. Flux mainly for farm work and don't see geting a tank to haul around in my truck to fix a gate/fence/snow plow/ tractor implement/etc or something. Not stick plz ;) I have stick covered. I think you could make a lot of money running different machines on a generator, like project farm does with his channel. Do top 5 cheap machines, top 5 pfc machines, etc then sell the machines. I think the general non welder hobbie public would want to see cheap and doable/ reliable with numbers and a rating system. I would watch a ton of videos to see individual machines, esp with the data specs. I'm really curious about dual 240v and 120v machines. Wouldn't a 30a 240 welder draw = 60a at 120v so then why is it that my predator inverter 3800w can run my weldpro mig155hd at 133-ish/ 18.5v-ish to do 1/8th" plate in 120v mode? But thier 120v plug is 20amps so it doesn't make sense. But the weld was burning hot. Wierd
Most welders on 120v overload the circuits. In the past I have tested different welders and it’s very common for cheap welders to hit 30-34 amps on a 20amp breaker. A bunch of the power is reactive power, but for the sake of the breaker it doesn’t matter. Keep in mind this is maxed out on settings. Any settings below max will have a reduction in current draw. A great example would be say 120a 18v output (while running) is 2160 watts (not including reactive power or inefficiencies of the machine). Up the voltage to 21v and it’s 2520 watts, a significant jump. Your breaker probably trips at 27-30a which is why it will run those settings on the machine. Welders with PFC generally fall under the higher priced category. Many millers, esabs, and fronius machines have it. Lincoln I am unsure about. Virtually everything on Amazon doesn’t have it unfortunately.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg cool good to learn. Just ordered the 30a to 20 amp gen adapter also. I did see a few open cage inverter gens last night while searching. I think it was 1200 for 7k watts at HF. Remote was good when I didn't have solar and 6k inverter. We would turn it on in the am from inside to make coffee etc. Now no remote is okay.
Another video ive watched at least 10 times and still cant figure out what generator will run the esab 180i used only for stick, can anyone help me out!! Thank you in advance!!
Asking if I'd get a harbor freight 13000 watt generator thats $1200.00 will that run the stick welder, mig, tig 140 thats 120v. I know the clean powers not there but im not using it daily at age 70
I believe you asked a different question regarding this but I will answer this one as well. 120v welders function very poorly on generators. 120v welders often grossly overload circuits and generators are not designed to allow 33-40a through on a 120v outlet. So the success of doing this is going to come down to the specific welder and generator. It’s unlikely that even on a 30a 120 breaker to be able to get close to 140a welder output on 120v. I will have a video out soon describing this in detail with testing to show what’s going on. 😀👍
Does anybody know whot multiprocess welder has pfc? I am not looking for top of the line, but instead buying something up to 200amps to practicing welding and mostly outside.
So the best way to find out is to contact a company directly. Out of all the multi process welders out there it’s safe to assume that anything other than a miller, esab (in specific the rebel series, not their other ones), fronius, some HTPs, and some Lincoln’s, won’t have PFC. To make matters even worse, if you look at 120v only machines virtually none of them will run properly on a 120v generator because the grossly overload circuits (think 35a draw on a 20a circuit and it will trip breakers). My 7600w running generator can’t even run an arc captain 135 welder because of how bad its power factor is. At the 200amp class machine the esab rebel 215 is probably the best option for running on 120 and 240, and on a generator. Most other machines (like Esabs own 210emp multi process) will trip breakers on a 7600 running watt generator around 180a of output. I wish there was a cheaper way to get a setup that works properly on minimum power but there simply isn’t. Couple words of advice: anything sold on Amazon (arc captain, yes welder, or cheaper) will all perform poorly on 120v and on a generator. They also generally weld poorly to begin with. You’re always best off with too big of a generator for your needs, welding is a serious demand on a generator. When it comes down to cost there are many smaller engine drive stick welders that function better and are cheaper than a separate generator and a welder. Problem with that is they don’t do wire welding and trying to run a average mig welder on them is a lost cause due to lack of (and dirty) power (small engine drives don’t have much generator power). All in one machines are universally worse than stand alone welders, and are expensive. You don’t want to damage them by running them on poor power. Links: ruclips.net/video/CxxH6rQXm1Y/видео.htmlsi=64IlswUfsJXD2vqo ruclips.net/video/bj67U1_WuQM/видео.htmlsi=XGx-bnk52JxUqW5K
I didn't mention this in the video, but it's important: Some cheap generators have some really sketchy breaker/outlet setups where they might have a 30a 240V plug (7,200 watt) despite not being able to support a legit 30 amp output. Just because a generator has a 30a breaker or plug doesn't mean it will handle a welder that requires 30a. In such cases of BS breaker/wiring you will likely have the welder shut off or go into protect mode as the voltage drops under a 30 amp load. Basically the breaker won't trip and the power output become poor. Also, some cheap generators may be say 6000 watt but they cant output all of that power to the 240v outlet. They might be able to output 3k watt per 120v outlet (25amp max) but only 20a to the 240 plug due to the breaker on the 240v. Its also important to remember that if you put anything else on the generator while welding that will lower your output available to the welder. Its not the best idea to weld and use a grinder at the same time. With generator/welder combos this is possible because some (mainly bigger ones) have both a welding generator and a 240v generator, so running a grinder doesn't affect the weld output.
Edit: also please remember, many welder companies lie, or don’t properly explain the current draw of their machines. It’s very common for a welder to say “20a draw at rated output”. You might think that’s at its max output, say 140a. Yet they are actually referring to its rated output of say 110a at 25% duty cycle. In such case it draws 20a at 110 amp out, and it will load up the input at 27-30amp draw at 140a out. The cheaper the welder the more likely it is to overload a circuit and the more likely the company is going to “creatively mislabel” the current draw requirements. A lack of CSA or UL listings on a welder is a sure sign they probably lied about specs lol.
Can you pin this post ?
I was trying to get creative to weld a pipe support- Preheat, work a wide puddle to get it hotter, just trying to keep the draw low and not to ruin either machine. I was able to get the weld to flatten out and not be too cold and globby. My little mini harbor freight stick welder, the smallest one works good but takes all day to get enough of the little sticks used up.
Yeah come to think of it my generator has a very, to me loss connection for the power feed at the generator, the 60amp plug connector has always to me been slack. Ummm again good point.
I'm putting this here sorry not sorry
Stair stepper in driver side - elliptical in car - you wanna go somewhere your gonna get that ASS into Shape!
I have a neverlast welder that specifically says the warranty is void if you don't use a clean power
This video seriously answered every question I’ve been losing my mind over the last few weeks. Thank you. Good luck finding a Vulcan outlaw
Yeah the outlaws are hard to find. It is basically the same as the northern tool klutch, and that’s more available. The outlaws are an order out only basis unfortunately, and the wait time is difficult to determine (aka long).
The hardest part with the whole welder/generator fiasco is that every welder is different with efficiency, power factor, and inrush current. It would be easy to tell everyone to buy a 9k watt generator but that would be overkill for many. Welding on a generator is basically a compromise, because to get the same power as a house setup you’re best off with a welder generator. Unfortunately those are stick welders and may not be very useful for some who want to wire weld. It becomes an issue where you must sacrifice something, and the tighter the budget the more sacrifices must be made. I hope that the video explained so everyone can make better decisions. It sucks to wreck an expensive welder or generator doing something a person doesn’t realize is bad.
Best info Ive seen on welder running on portable generator ! Thank you !!
No problem 😀. It’s quite a convoluted problem, but hopefully the info allows everyone to have setup that works and lasts. I wish a functional setup was cheap, but there is no way around the fact welding takes a ton of power and big power generators are expensive. A good setup will save a lot due to efficiency though 😀
I have been an electrician for 50 years plus started welding when I was sixteen. Now I'm 70 years. What a fine job you done explaining this topic. Thank you for passing on your knowledge to the younger crowd.
Thanks for the kind words. I want to see people making good decisions and being able to do what they want to do 😀.
How have you seen my internet search history?! I was looking for this exact information last week. 😂
I am only 6 months late on releasing it lol. Kept it on the back burner but never got around to getting it done. Finally it’s checked off the list.
I have seen your search history. The FBI wants to talk to you.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg great information in it thanks
@@snowdog90210 I'm only a transcontinental flight away if they fancy a pint.
Yep. I use a blackmax8750 peak 7200 running (a cheapie from sams) and a Forney 225 buzz box loaded into the back of a side by side as a fence weld set-up. The Forney sucks the life out of blk max at 130A, though I do get less complaints when I use the Lincoln Mig 140. That why I'm looking around. The cheapie generator holds me back. I have been eyeing the Klutch Terminator over the Vulcan Outlaw.
im staring a business for mobile weld repair and you just helped me out to much. I did find the right generator but, boy that poor welder is going to die. I just need it to last long enough to make enough money to buy a proper set up. Thank you and God bless you sir and remember all things for Gods glory!
Glad to hear you’re doing a mobile repair business, the world needs more people out there fixing stuff. So few people have the skills or desire to do it there is quite a shortage of skilled people in many areas. I am sure your welder will hold on. Make as much money as you can and upgrade as you can. Hopefully the video will give you the right things to think of for your setup. I have been running on a generator for over a year and doing mobile work as a side hustle, and having a reliable generator is huge.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thank you for your advice! I am just getting out of trade school and a trend im seeing it they all go to shop/plants or join the union. The shops only really care about big work and big jobs that keep the lights on and pay everyone. I on the other hand am just one dude who will not only have my equipment but, out right own it all with no loan. I just ended up saving a lot of my money and buying tools with my funds rather than going to parties. I wont lie though, the snap on driver and I got a thing going and sometimes I black out and come to with tools and hats haha. I bought a cheaper truck that is easy to fix. Many a star is lining up per say. Very blessed about that stuff. Market wise I think I have one for repair work that other places just out right overlook. Not only that but, only 3-7 mobile welders in my area and non offer cast repair, or say they are insured so that allows me to work with fleet farm or menards when they need something. Its all rather interested and kinda scary. Thank you for making this video and replying to it. Its nice to hear the Midwest accent coming from someone else haha. God bless and if you have any advice like anything at all. Please hit me with it.
Hey Greg I’m one of the requesters for this vid. I’ll watch it later because I’m at work but I didn’t want to forget to say thanks! Freeze’
No problem, your suggestion definitely helped me stay motivated to get it done 😀
Hands-down the best video about this topic that I've ever seen. I suspect Greg knows far more about this stuff than 99% of the pros, & he teaches it in a way that us hobby folks can understand (sort of). If I'm still lost, it's not because Greg didn't last it out there. Electricity is my worst subject, for sure.
I will be dabbling into how electricity works in future videos soon. It’s actually easier than you probably realize. I am going to take apart a simple dc output transformer welder and using measuring devices show what is going on at every step. A lot can be learned when you can actually see what’s going on visually.
Fantastic & informative video that has definitely increased my welding IQ - cheers.
Glad it helped you out 😀.
I wish you were every science teacher I ever had. You and Ryan F9. Thank you!!
You’re welcome and thanks for the kind words. Soon I will have a video where I show how a simple transformer welder produces dc welding current from a/c input. It will be pretty cool because tons of other electronic devices will make more sense. 😀👍
So I start searching for a video like this one a week ago and haven’t found much good info and then you drop this video! Thank you!
No problem 😄. It’s been a hot topic on the Facebook groups lately so I had the “extra” motivation to reshoot the video and get it out. I want to see people get a setup that works for what they are looking at doing, and hopefully not make any expensive mistakes.
I had the same experience. The YT algo could use an overhaul so that good, useful, knowledgeable content like this lands above the clickbait style stuff.
Exactly what I needed and had been looking for. Thank you
No problem, it should give you the knowledge so you can make the right decisions on a setup. I wish that generator and welder companies were more honest with labels and ratings, it would be far easier to figure out what’s going on. It’s very common for welders to say “draws 20a at rated output” which rated output is say 110amps and not its max of 140 amps. Which makes people think all they need is a 20a breaker on a generator. Which will result in constant trips if that’s what it has.
Wow! My heads spinning! Seriously though, I think you did an outstanding job explaining what, on the surface, seems simple. Great stuff!
It definitely seems simple but it’s quite a rabbit hole lol. I wish that there was some sort of standard generators and welders had to meet so the compatibility would be guaranteed. Or atleast truth in advertising. Unfortunately a ton of what’s out there is all sorts of trash lol. They lie about specs, capabilities, ratings, and the quality of parts of both welders and generators are highly variable. It generally pays to buy from better well known manufactures, but even then it’s no guarantee. Frustrating to say the least lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Truth in advertising is an oxymoron. Lol Once the marketing wanks get a hold of the product --forget about any meaningful information. Particularly with the Chinesiam stuff 'cause they can literally say anything they want with no basis in fact. Whenever I see "CE" instead of "UL" on a device you just gotta' cringe... Still ---the price. Just can't get away from it. That's why your vids are so great. The only way to protect yourself, or your equipment, is through knowledge. That's what you provide in spades!
The best explanation I've seen on this subject.
Glad you liked the video 👍. The sucky part is I want to give a simple accurate answer but everyone’s welder has different power requirements/efficiencies, and everyone’s generator has different outputs. The goal is to get a setup that works and the only way that’s possible is to either way over size the generator or figure out what is really needed. I don’t want to see people spend a bunch of money for a setup that doesn’t work.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg can't get better than that. You are teaching people how to fish instead of giving them just the fish lol. I think lots of manufacturers would benefit adding power correction factor to their welders, i think people would be willing to pay the extra money if they understand how important it is. If I came across information like this while back, I would have made different choices. Thank you again.
Nice, I think i made a good purchase for my lite duty mig for off grid fab work. Both transformer gen and mig. The generator is a 6250 watt (5000w) and the welder is a Hobart 135. Intended use is flux core welding 1/16” (.065”) wall square steel tube fabrication with smallish wire. I’ll use it at the mid to upper range settings. I think that the flux core might actually be of a small benefit for the described use (generated heat?). I put this setup together over 6 months time and have all this stuff now and a sweet little project soon!:) However, when my needs increase/ change I will take everything to heart in this video. I’m right here watching your efforts. Now where’s my ginger beer I know I put it down around here somewhere, lol🙏👋’freezer
Flux core definitely is more bang for the buck with welding on a generator. It operates at a slightly lower voltage than gas shielded mig so you actually use less generator power given the same thickness material. It also has better penetration generally speaking. The only downside to flux core wire is when attempting to use .035 wire on material over 3/16th you can get internal porosity due to how fast the weld solidifies. Gas shielded mig just loses fusion but doesn’t have porosity. Flux core wire and a generator is a very good setup for doing general fab work in the field 😀
You answered all my questions and I didn't even have to ask...Great video and excellent job explaining everything..thank you sir.
You’re entirely welcome 😀👍. I know there was a ton of info in the video but I did it so people can get a lot better idea of what’s going on and figure out what they need. The last thing I want for people to do is spend a couple grand on a setup that doesn’t work right, and unfortunately that’s pretty common.
Thanks I needed this video. I have a Miller 211 and I’ve been thinking about buying a generator so I can do work outside the home. The information that you have shown will come in so handy. Thank you sir keep up the good work God bless.🙏
So the 211 is a great welder that is highly efficient. Even though miller doesn’t specify power factor correction (which they don’t on any of their welders that I am aware of) based on its specs I am sure it has it. Its max fuse rating is 30 amp and it should be able to achieve 200amps output on a 30amp breaker. To truly max that machine out (230a) you will need around 5.5-6k running watts. Miller specifies 7k but they don’t say running or total. At reduced power (or on 120v) you will be able to get its max output of 130a out of a 3500 running watt generator. Due to the efficient design you will be able to get a lot of welding done without a lot of power 😀
Good concise description.
Thanks 😀
Thank you for the information and clarification about running a welder on a generator. I have a better understanding about this ability. Many thanks.
Glad it helped you out 😀
This is great information Greg. Thank you for sharing.
No problem 😀
Very nice! I have an RV and am looking at getting in to welding, which would mostly be mobile.
Two comments: you mentioned fuses blowing quickly. Depends on the fuse type but many of them are just as slow to blow as circuit breakers.
I have an all in one solar system and a non-inverter generator. As you probably know, non inverter generators try to run the engine at 3600 rpm to get 60 Hz, but change the fuel level as the load changes to keep the speed / frequency correct. What this means is that the frequency goes down when the load goes up, until the generator control electronics adjust the fuel level to get it back up to speed.
Most all in one solar systems detect this frequency instability as “utility power is dying, switch to battery.” They then turn off the load, so the frequency changes again. Repeat.
I don’t know if any welders behave similarly, but it’s a very annoying thing. I had to get a separate charger that is able to ignore the frequency instability.
Great tip and observation. So many cheap welders cause significant voltage instability with generators due to poor power factors and inconsistent loads. Welding more or less is a controlled high amperage load on a circuit, and it’s very easy to cause generators to produce poor voltage/frequency/etc. Much like flipping on/off a bunch of 1600 watt heaters would cause issues, welders do the same thing.
Thank you for braking this down and putting it in simple English. Great explanation that I could understand. May have to change the route I’m going after seeing this, but now I know why what I was hoping to do may not work.
Thanks for the kind words. The crappy thing is it’s honestly pretty hard to truly know what will work and what won’t. Universally most welders don’t have PFC, and to me it’s a make it or break it deal when running in a generator. A lot of people say “well just don’t max the machine out” aka run lower settings, but unless it’s an emergency I would avoid that. It won’t take too many times that a breaker trips while welding (or bad voltage drop) before something will likely fail lol.
This is so in-depth. Really appreciate this work, Greg.
No problem 😀. I wish the whole thing was simpler, but every welder is different so it really causes a lot of issues. Not to mention a vast majority of welders have incorrect (or “creatively” calculated) tags on them for current draw, which further complicates things. Hopefully people will be able to use the info to get a setup that reliably works and doesn’t cause equipment failure.
I'm off-grid, It sounds like Power factor correction is a must for me since I have minimal power, It also sounds like it's beneficial for wire gauge size as well I'm in the process of setting up my barn into a shop and I'm running a wire underground to power a welder.
Thanks for the video this has been a great explanation of power consumption used by welders.
I have my eye on the ESAB Rouge 130i pro which has power factor contraction, I was planning on a cheaper Amazon one to start with but I need the most power efficiency with everything I'm always buying.
again thanks for the great video This really helps for someone who's living off grid.
So what I find interesting is with the rogue 200 (which will be similar to the 130) it outputs 120-130a on 120 when maxed out. The fact they have a 130 that is dual voltage is interesting because I believe the machine will put out 120+ at both voltages. The 240v will definitely have a better duty cycle though. I am sure the 130 rogue has power factor correction and will be 90% or more than efficient so you would be in great hands running off the grid.
The exact video I’ve been looking for. Incredibly helpful.
Glad it helped you out 😀👍. It sucks that the situation is as complicated as it is, but ultimately when you understand the big picture you wont wind up wasting money on a setup that doesn’t work. Thats the worst lol.
Thank you for making this video,you have saved me so much time and aggravation. Please keep up the great work
You’re welcome. I wish the situation was easier to make work, but the truth is the situation is stupidly complex and there is real risk of damage to equipment. There is a ton of bad info out there too, which makes it difficult to even know what to do. That’s why I thought it was important to make the video so people don’t waste a shit ton of money on a setup that won’t work or damage their equipment.
This video is exactly what I needed. Thanks!
No problem 😀👍. Hopefully you will get a setup that works with the info so you can do what you need to. It’s nice to be able to weld anywhere 😀
I am actually shopping for a generator now and your video just popped up, some really good information and you answered questions that I did not even know I needed to ask. I have the Lincoln 210mp and the Prime Weld Tig225. Looks like I a shopping for a 7k watt, pure sine wave generator. I now know the 210mp has PFC, not sure yet about the Prime Weld. Tank you for your video, I am your newest Sub now....
Welcome and thanks for subscribing. That means a lot. The 210mp is a really good welder, I have used it in the past. If it does have PFC you should be able to get 180-200a out of it on a 7k running watt generator. The prime weld would be highly unlikely to have it, however due to tig operating at lower voltage you should still be able to get a bunch of output out of it. I would definately say 7k would be the lowest you want to go and a bit more wouldn’t hurt. Most of the time you won’t be running near max which is good 👍.
Well your wrong on one point, I have a trailblazer 325 and looking to get the new trailblazer 330 air pak and I'm watching your videos because of how well and in depth you explain everything. Keep it up! enjoy your videos!
Haha I guess I am wrong 😅. The trailblazer is quite a generator/welder, and is honestly the best solution for welding mobile without compromises. It solves so many issues that are presented with the smaller engine drives, and gives real world capability. Clean power, tons of output, ability to actually arc gouge (which would smoke a small engine drive lol). If only they were cheaper 😀. If you buy that air pack be sure to share your thoughts in the future. The new LCD seems to be quite the setup.
I’m a beginner welder in the UK and your videos inspire me to keep on keeping on. I was watching this because I’m looking at buying a jennywelder in the future and wanted to figure out the score. I can’t get through the video, I always watch late at night when the kids are asleep, and wake up at stupid o clock drooling. It’s not your style or content I really like it, just I can’t get through this one. 😂😂😂
Great info! I don’t plan to do this, but it is very interesting to know about it.
great video. Now I can buy the correct generator, for my remote welding needs. You just saved me blowing up my brand new welders.
cheers
Glad to hear that. That’s why I put the video out. Welders and generators are so expensive it would suck to cause failure of either one of them due to a lack of power or poor quality of that power. With a solid generator you give up very little over house hold power. A lot of people like going the small engine drive route (sub 220amp welder/generstor combo) but those basically eliminate running much of a mig or tig machine on them. I rather have a solid 7500-10k running watt generator and be able to use mig/tig/stick on it over a 180a engine drive that will barely hit 5k running watts.
Banger video man - I think the takeaway I got was just like everything else in life - if you want to do it right it's going to cost more.... You put out some genuinely great content and I love the name of your channel. I think your channel will continue to grow.
Thanks for the kind comment. Doing it right costs money, which sucks because money is definitely harder to come by today. Nothings worse than spending a decent amount only to find out it won’t work as it’s needed too. Lost money and disappointment really sucks lol.
Hi again Greg! Wonderful information there! When I did that mine shaft sinking bucket weld job I mentioned on the last video you did, I had to do that on a generator. I live at my mine so I don't have AC power. My trailer I live in I have solar on plus I use a generator.. but the mine I can only use a generator for because the BLM doesn't allow anything powered over 10hp so I'm limited on what I can use thus I had to do that project using the generator I use for the mine. Anyways I did the welding job with one of those Campbell Hausfield 70 amp hi/lol settings welders that have the duty cycle auto shutoffs and the red light on it that shows when the welder is ready to run again. As for the generator, I ran the welder off a Champion 3500 continuous watt /4000 start watt 120/240 switchable volts 30 amp breaker generator and the welder did slag the generator down a bit during the welds but never tripped the breaker so with the info you just gave, I think the welder was pulling just under enough amps it took to not trip the breakers.
More than likely that little welder was up there on the input loading. You should get pretty good longevity out of the welder and generator since the generator has enough power overhead to handle the load. That particular welder won’t likely be bothered too much by the generators output either.
It is possible to get as much as 115-120amps off that generator with stick by switching to a highly efficient welder like the esab rogue series, miller maxstar 161, or fronius 180. If you ever find the need for more output switching to one of those would give you the ability to weld unlimited thickness and bigger rods.
Btw what kind of mine do you own?
@@makingmistakeswithgreg anything that puts money in my pocket. Lol
But yeh it's AU/AG primary with copper/lead as secondary. I had it assayed at around 1.5 TOPT/20+AG TOPT. it's just one of my mines but Thier all underground ones. :)
I am thinking of looking into that esab welder tho. Last time I was in one of the local pawn shops in town they had a bunch of pretty nice welders and the prices was very negotiable. 👍
Amps × volts = watts.
If the welder requires 20 amps at 120 volts, that's 2400 watts. Add another 30% or so to accommodate the surge load of striking an arc, and I'd suggest adding another 30-40% so that the generator isn't running at a high load percentage relative to output.
I don't worry about it since I have engine drive welder/generators, both actual generator (DC output only) and alternator(AC and rectified DC) output. My area is different than everyone else's, but they're not hard to find here, or nearly as expensive as new.
Anyone reasonably handy can build an engine driven welder from a car alternator and a lawnmower engine. Commercial versions are also available, though most are intended for use on a truck or off-road vehicle.
Power factor correction, at least in the transformer welder days, was a factory option. The downside to PFC is that they draw more power when idle as compared to the same unit with no PFC....at least based on the data for those units I've seen. The inverse is also true, the PFC equipped version draws somewhat less when welding than the same machine without PFC. I know little about the inverter machines. The transformers are less efficient, but they'll still be functional in several decades, while inverter machines will be in a landfill.
Mig settings... They can be a good starting point, or nearly worthless. The MIG I use at work is a 1982 model Hobart (before Miller ruined the brand), IIRC. It has voltage settings, but the wire feed(a separate unit, btw) setting is a potentiometer with a matked dial from 1 to 10. There is no correlation anywhere in the manual or on the feeder that correlates feed dial settings to actual wire feed. I have timed, measured, and marked several settings for the approximate wire speed, but it still requires trying, reading the bead, and adjusting to get it right.
There is a downside to running a larger generator, and that is fuel consumption. This is MUCH less of an issue with inverter generators, but it is a very significant issue with conventional generators that scream along at 3600rpm regardless of load.
My diesel Lincoln SA 250 cost me less than a new Outlaw from Harbor Fright, and will still be laying beads long after the Outlaw pukes...just like my old Onan generators and transformer machines.
One thing that should be brought to attention with generators is load balancing. This isn't an issue when utilizing the 240v output, but if using the 120 outlets, it can potentially let the magic smoke out of the windings. Basically, you don't want a heavy load on one leg of the winding(120 + 120 = 240) and none on the other leg. Distribute the load evenly across the legs whenever possible. I haven't studied the operation of inverter generators enough to know if this still applies, but it certainly does with the older style.
The 30-40% is a pretty wide margin to choose a generator, it really depends on the welder, some have power factor correction, less surge current and so on. I would say refer to the manual rather than assuming a 30-40%.
Hey quick question what generator should I use for Hobart 160i stick welder I can’t use it on my breaker cause it’ll trip it I’m new to welding and I jus wanna practice on it
Great video! You explained it very well. I currently run both a Titanium 225 stick welder, and the Titanium 125 Fluxcore welder, on a conventional Predator generator (9000/7200). The hottest I have ever had to run the stick welder at is 140A. From your chart, I calculate that I will most likely max out around 170A with this combination.
I have metered the 225 and it doesn’t have power factor correction. However its power factor does improve as the amperage goes up. That’s something I briefly mentioned but is an interesting phenomenon (basically the input line loading doesn’t go up that much between say 160 and 180a because it’s not outputting more reactive power). I have tested the 225 at 200amps (7018) and it didnt trip the breaker on the 7600 predator, but it was right there/close. So with yours having a bit less watts 170 should be ok, you may see trips above that. More than enough power to get some decent welding done 😀
Very good overview Greg, and I am sure helpful to many users. As a note, the Lincoln Power MIG 215 has a high power factor of >.98, quite good for generator usage.
Glad to hear the new Lincoln has a good power factor. That’s something you often get with higher quality welders over cheaper ones. Since many manufactures don’t talk much about power factor and many people don’t understand it, it’s easy to think a 500$ mig machine performs as well as a 2k$ one. However when you run on an extension cord or generator the differences become apparent lol.
Hey Greg and Brantley I recently just got my Lincoln power MIG 215MP and was wondering what generator you gone with or thinking of thanks!
Man! Thank you! Most of this I know BUT I was going to go way to big with the Predator 9600 inverter but based on your math, I can go with the 7600! You just saved me some serious money! Fortunately all of my welders have PFC!
It’s never a bad thing to go with a bigger generator than needed, however the price difference can be staggering when going up a size in a generator. If you are running your welders on wall power right now it wouldn’t hurt to hook a meter to the power input and max the machine out to see how many amps it pulls. Every welder is a bit different and it pays to know what yours pull 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg a meter is a great idea. All my wall power is 220 amps 50 amp breaker. I loved how you broke down the shop breaker versus generator breaker BTW!
To your point, my gut always says go big or go home but I’m pretty sure I could take care of most of my repairs using the 7500. Although, Murphys law…also, I could have picked one up (7500) a couple times on the discount (returned items) area at Hobo freight.
Been debating on upgrading my home electrical or getting a generator. They cost about the same but I can only take one on mobile work.
Thank you for all the detailed explanations. All I knew was a regular generator would kill my machine and inverter = $$$$$.
Yeah it is a conundrum of sorts. Super clean pure sine wave is best for modern welders, but they cost a lot. I think the ideal setup is a welder that has PFC. You can get huge output with the smallest generator, thus saving costs. No matter what having a functional mobile 150amp welder setup will cost a lot. I even tested the harbor freight titanium 225 stick machine in the past and due to poor power factor it might hit 130a on a 5k generator before the breaker trips. It’s tough to get useable output/duty cycle (over 150a) for under about 1400-1500$ for a welder and generator setup.
THANK YOU i was researching this needed this
No problem. It’s a lot of info but it should help you get a setup that works 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg hey so is an inverter generator what u mean by pure sing wave generators or is there something more.
@@ericavery3054 so inverter generators invert DC to Ac current. You could make an inverter that outputs something other than pure sine wave, such as modified sine wave. Generally inverters produce cleaner power than non inverters. Pure sine wave means it more or less is power just like from the wall. Not all inverters output pure sine wave. If it says pure sine wave or low THD that’s what you’re looking for if you want the best longevity for sensitive electronic devices 👍
Now I know what the archeologist that discovered the Dead Sea Scholl's felt like when they realized they found something very profound and important. I've been trying to figure this out for many years, and since I'm not good at figuring out electrical welding stuff , and some have said most anything, I got no where, except being lead to this video. That's all I needed to accidently discover. I've been trying to figure out which generator to buy for home back up that can also allow me to use a mig welder, but knew this is usually a bad combo for success unless you're rich, and didn't know why.
You have made a very complex subject simple enough for a certified dumb ass to understand, and I'm the proof. You have saved me probably several more years of trying to figure this out and also from buying thousands of dollars of generators and welders before finding what works. So on that note, let me be the first to say, of all people in this country in this present time that deserves a full size bronze statue of themselves made, you do. Thx Greg from the bottom of my wallet and little brain. Like they say, even a blind chicken finds a little feed.
So now I will try to determine the best inverter generator and mig welder to buy that would be the best operating combo that won't drain the 401k. I'll cl out your other videos.
Welcome and I am glad the video helped you out. The truth is the situation is really crappy because it is very difficult to get a straight answer from welder spec sheets as to what they need. I can tell you that if you want to run a mig welder on a generator an average inverter machine will achieve about 160-180a and that’s it on 7500 running watts. If you were to use a esab rouge 190 mig welder, or a esab rebel, you will be able to achieve max output of 190-220 amps (depending on machine) on a 7500 running watt generator.
It really comes down to how much output you need. If you plan on mig welding 1/4 inch steel you need 200a of output and thus atleast a 7k running watt generator and an efficient welder. This is where stick comes in handy, you can reliably weld 1/4inch steel with 120a of output. Simply put you can use a much smaller generator and still weld thick plate. Wire welding simply requires more power to weld thicker material.
Edit: also as a bit of info that I left out of that video, avoid a 120v welder at all costs on a generator. Virtually every 120v only or 120v dual voltage machine significantly overloads a 120v circuit. This is a huge problem because generators are generally not capable of generating more than 30 amps on 120v. Many of the 120v welders will load up the generator above 30a, causing breaker trips or generator shut downs. Even my predator 7500 running watt can’t handle much welder output on the 30a socket on 120v. So whatever welder you buy make sure it’s either dual voltage or 240v only.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thx so much again, Greg. I had been planning on getting a 10500 inv gen and getting a Hobart 200 MPW. I called Hobart and asked them if they had any power correction factor built into the machine and they said yes, I would not have any problem using the multi purpose Handler 200 on a 7500 inv gen. He said any of the Handler series would have the PCF built in. I do not plan on welding more than 3/16' steel and 1/8" alum on tig. So before I found your info, I was off and ready to go with Hobart. This world would be so much easier if people were honest and didn't tell you half the story just so they can sell their products.
Excellent explanations! Thanks for sharing!
No problem 😀
Wow Awesome learnt alot!
Glad to hear that. It sucks the whole situation is so complicated. My goal with the video was to help people understand enough that they don’t end up waiting thousands and getting a setup that works poorly. Welders and generators aren’t cheap, especially if the setup doesn’t work.
Thank you for your time! Great video, a lot of useful information.
No problem 😀
Perfect video I’m planning on doing this myself. I have the Vulcan 220 Omni pro multi process welder. Was going to have 220 electric ran to my garage. But I am thinking about selling my house and moving out of this state. So a generator would probably make more sense for my situation. I plan on picking up the exact same generator in this video.
I am not sure if the Omni pro has power factor correct but you should be able to get 180-200 amps out of the machine on the same generator . That’s for mig, for tig you could easily get 200+ (it runs on less output voltage) and atleast 150a on stick. Definitely enough to tackle a ton of jobs.
Very nice presentation, well thought out
Thanks 😀
You definitely put some good information out,sometimes I personally am not the best listening person. Ive mentioned to you before I have a hobart champion elite 225and autoarc 182, I plan on running off it at times. The hobart is new ive only used 6011,7018 1/8 " for me smoother than my favorite little thunderbolt. Even tho the auto arc weighs about as much as the hobart , I traded for it used works great on 4 out of 5 tap and idk 3- 425 ipm ( if correct) on 035 e71-gs . Runs great on 50a breaker and from a couple places im guessing at least 30 to. I haven't had to use the auto arc off the hobart generator but being 11000 id thought be fine. I was considering a smaller generator probably inverter i guess to primarily plug truck block keater and 1 or two heating pads and possibly battery tender but probably just heater and a pad on transmission pan . But also when not plugging truck in and on a job run cut off saw,grinders,lights,radio etc. Off the cheaper generator vs the hobart racking up hours. Just seeing if you had any input and if it sounds like something only a dipshit would try 😆
11k watts should be good to go to power that. You’re talking 45 amps actual output power at 240v, which is a lot of output power via a welder. Most of the time welders are nowhere near maxed out and the power that has is more than enough to do some solid welds without issue.
Well done sir. Awesome video. I owe you a beer.
No problem, glad you liked it 😀. It sucks how costly it is to get a setup that works and will be reliable. So many people want to run welders on generators that I figured it was worth doing a video on it so people don’t end up wasting money or damaging their equipment.
i just got this for a snow storm coming, figured it was a good time to get a welder to go with it, got the yeswelder dp200 multiprocess. we’ll see how she does.
You should be able to atleast hit 170amps of output before you might trip the breaker 👍. Good luck with the snow storm, I am not sure where you are at but some states are going to get hammered. It pays to have a generator no doubt, it sucks when big power outages happen due to line damage.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg im in va, we didn’t get what they were hyping up, maybe 5-6 inches in my area. im going to keep the 9500, seems to be a decent gen. i dont see why i would need much more than 170a for what im doing.Thanks for your reply and great video!
Another fascinating and informative video! Did you know that the power companies themselves have to be concerned about Power Factor on their service lines? Drive around an industrial area, where the load is mostly inductive motors. There will be poles with unusual can-looking things on them that are NOT transformers. These are capacitor banks. It's all about balancing the inductive and capacitive reactance their lines see. Too much inductive load is bad, so they have to add capacitance to the line to balance it out. I have to wonder if you can add capacitors to an older welder to make it more efficient in this regard. Probably not, that would be too easy...
Excellent post and thanks for sharing. I am sure you could add capacitance to a transformer machine, that is exactly what miller and Lincoln did with their dial arc/ideal arc welders that had the PFC option. I have never tested one that had it (I owned 3 ideal arc 250s, none had it) but I have a suspicion the capacitor setup they had would only significantly improve the power factor at higher outputs. Since industry gets penalized by poor power factor it would make sense to use a capacitor to help the welder under a load. I have read that under light loads/idle the capacitor equipped versions have pretty high reactive power numbers. Under a load they will hit max output on a 50-60a breaker vs a 90a without pfc, so that’s a huge difference. The modern welders with PFC can maintain excellent PF on 120-240v and at all outputs, which is obviously superior to the older welders, but the old machines still weld excellent 😀
Thanks for this. Nice job.
No problem 😀
That’s a lot of good information thanks
No problem, I want to see people be able to find a setup that works 😀.
Very Informative video my friend. Thanks for all the sweat that you put into same. Much Appreciated... It's refreshing to find one that is a Master at his craft. Thumbs Up... Subscribed...
Thanks for the kind words, and thanks for subscribing 😀👍. Any difference I can make to help people out is what keeps me going 😀
I cant decide if he sounds more like Steve Quail or Jesse Ventura.
Regardless, I'm halfway through the vid now, cant wait to watch the rest, this is extremely useful, thank you so much for sharing. New Sub.
Glad you like the video. The main takeaway of what I want people to learn with from it is that the issue is far more complex that what it appears and unfortunately many welders simply won’t work properly on a generator. Considering how much generators and welders cost, damaging either one is a bad situation to be in. A great example of how complicated it is, I tried to run an arc captain 120v welder on the predator 9500. It wouldn’t weld even 1/8th material without almost killing the generator. The generator can’t produce enough power on the 30a plug to power the little welder, because it grossly overloads the circuits. The machine used matters so much and so many flat out perform poorly because they grossly overload circuits lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Sir, you deserve some kind of award for putting all this info together and also for the time it took to put it into a coherent, understandable video. Thanks 1M to you!! 🙏
Yes, from what you said that makes sense, definitely a complex issue. The setup you mention in this comment is very similar to one I have been considering, so I'm very grateful to hear your experience 🙏. I have been leaning for a long time towards the Primeweld TIG welders, either 225 or 325, largely because I don't think I will ever be in a situation with them where I wish I had a bigger welder, plus their great customer service reputation. I want to call them and see if they have suggestions on running those machines on a generator. I will report back here when I do.
I have been considering the arccaptain / yeswelder range mostly just because they are so extremely cheap and I thought it might be a neat way to start practicing stick and TIG (I only have a 110 FCAW right now). Since I cant justify the expense of a nice engine driven welder, I also had a fantasy that their small size might make them suitable for remote work with a generator ... that wish is quickly fading.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Generator being an inverter is not important so long as THD
7:00 voltage drop on a generator from high load is corrected by spinning them faster... tho, 75Hz will blow up the little engine they use... need a bigger engine to drive them at the right speed. ... ether way the surge watts thru a 200amp service go right thru a 50amp braker for some time before it actually trips. just like a duty cycle, 50amp 250v is 100% but they can transfer 80amp to 140amp 250 volt for nearly 10 seconds as a thought... so if a generator has a 30amp 250v braker, it is expected to trip when using some larger current settings. one 3/16 E7018 trips a 30amp 250v braker after it is fully used. ... 30amp running 45amp for some time before it shuts off... so if you want it to trip at 50amp's ya need to install a 40amp braker... 200amp service will surge up to 350amp 250 volt, tho that 20 seconds or 90Kw/hr will absolutely tick off nearly everyone on the grid causing lights to go dim and other furnace motors to stall etc... nothing is built to all be used at the same time... would need nearly 8 train engines to power a 60watt light bulb for everyone in a city of 50'000. just one light bulb per population is enough to black out a station in most places... but if its cold outside, their just going to burn things to make heat so electrical power is a given byproduct of what they do regardless of what it is. required to turn things on, to get the power lines hot enough to prevent ice buildup. tho if the wire gauge in a generator is 12 gauge, it can output 40amp 250 volt for a long time... can run 3/16 E7018 thru a 100ft 14 gauge extension cable, the wire just gets hot and very flaccid. as long as the rpm stays up tho 75hz was... not safe for sensitive things, because the voltage goes up as they spin faster... 180v 45hz, 220v 50hz, 240v 60hz, 280v 75hz etc.
😅 tripping generator brakers... wrap a 12gauge wire from one end of it to the other on both terminals, its the vibration of the engine that trips them at lower current's.
3/16 6010 rod runs clean as low as 45amp on the machine "on the machine output setting dial"... they run, but nothing is to code at that larger rod size unless that combination of processing equipment is actually tested independently. using certified force gauges, its not just about bending to look for cracks... actually have to measure the pound force to rip it apart when trimmed to an exact cross sectional aria. 🤣if it cant run a 3/16 6010, it cant legally run a 1/16 6010 ether!
Thank you for the very informative video. Do you think there are ways to improve power factor on a cheaper welder? Say an inline power factor correction device like used in large commercial motors. Believe a bank of capacitors is used. Or another approach use a variable frequency drive to clean up the power?
Looked into isolation transformers price aside there is a 13% loss associated with the transformer. There has to be a solution without sacrifice to efficiency. Maybe get a rotary phase converter inline to stabilize the sine wave and isolate the generator from the welder.
Look into to military surplus generators, I got an mep803 10kw and it runs my welders very well
Definitely an option and well worth it. Generally speaking solid build quality too.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg they have onan engines diesel
I hadn’t thought of that! Thanks for the idea!
Great video
Great video! In the manual my 285 amp multiprocess inverter welder power factor is listed at 0.73 and efficiency at 80%. Lol i was thinking of just getting a westinghouse 20000 running watts because i want to run other things also
Those stats seem entirely plausible and probably realistic. That welder would consume 10,260 watts to output max amperage at 30 volts. Add in the reactive power and you’re definitely going to need a 50amp breaker. On the low end a 12k generator would possibly handle it, but I definitely would look at 14-15k or bigger to ensure the best reliability and functioning.
I remember doing this years ago, the generator itself have a signwave rating, i think mine has a 6 which is ok, i think the lower the number the dirtier the signwave is, a lot of the new generators have very dirty signwaves. Yeah inverters dont like generators, great vid well explained, thanks from Ireland.
No problem 😀. I wish there was an easier way to run on a generator and have equipment last. It’s definitely an expensive endeavor to do it right.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg now you got me thinking, I'm wondering would a Balun, choke or Toroidal inductor between generator and welder, work I think I've seen them inside welders, basically to cut down EMI, maybe I'm taking out of the box. I used them in my CB radio to clean up the signal imput to quite down RFI, I deffo seen choked in welders. Again thinking out of the box. Thanks for the reply.
Good info, thank you. Inverter generators have cleaner power. What would be a good low THD rating for a regular generator?
Thank you for the great video, I currently own a Lincoln 180weld pak with a 230v plug and I’m having trouble figuring out what type of power generator I should purchase. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
The weld pack 180 doesn’t list much for power consumption other that 20amps at rated power (130a). Based on that figure it would need atleast 28amps to hit max output. A realistic number would be a 7500running watt generator would fully power that welder.
This is s great video! Lot’s of useful information. But for a novice like me, this is kinda overkill. I was hoping for brand and model recommendations so I didn’t purchase a bad generator. Your video opened with harbor 9500 inverter generator pictured, I will go with that. Thanks for the video!
The hardest part is every welder has different demands and finding a setup that works can be very hard. The predator 9500 is a great generator that outputs clean power than welders prefer. The limitation of the 9500 really comes down to the welder itself. You can get between 170-230 amps of mig output, 100-230 amps of stick output, and 130-250amps of tig output on the generator based on what machine. A safe bet would be 180a of mig, 160a of stick, and 200a of tig. That is more than enough to handle a ton of serious welding jobs. If you need more output than that, you would need to get up to the 12k class of generators and a true 50a outlet.
@ thanks for that.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all that information wow I’ve learned so much I’ve recently purchased a esab ruffian 150 with the hopes of running a tig setup off it as esab marketing as you can hope that real lol
The ruffian is a solid welder for stick. Even though its generator section is limited on power, with tig you can still get a lot of output. Tig operates at 12-16 volts for the most part, so you should be able to get in the ballpark of 170-180 amps of Tig output from a tig welder. That’s provided it’s an inverter and has power factor correction. Tig is also easier on a generator because you start the arc and slowly ramp up the amperage, it’s not an instant hit like stick or mig. If you would like to tig weld with that I would highly suggest picking up a new or used miller maxstar 161, fronius 180, or esab rogue 180/200. All of those welders have excellent efficiencies and have power factor correction.
You think instead of trying to run a small tag machine off the 220 outlet just hook up a scratch start and run it off the dens out front on the Ruffin
So I wanted to know if I were to buy 2 Honda 7000 inverter generators with the parallel kit and an adapter (from the 30amp outlet to a 50amp outlet) would it power a high frequency machine like an htp or prime weld that requires 10000 running watts? My main concern is that the outlet on the Honda generator is a 30 amp outlet and i think I need a 50 amp outlet to maximize the machine. How would an adapter work with a parallel kit set up? Thank you! I keep coming back to this video😃
Glad the hear the video helped you out. There is a ton of info in it and you found something I definitely didn’t cover, paralleling generators lol. If you were to run two of them paralleled you would basically split the load on both, which would give you significantly more power. Honda makes excellent generators and would work fine for that. When it comes to welders having 10k+ running watts is where you really need to be to run any 200-220 amp class machine. A 200amp mig machine (with power factor correction)at 25v output could output 200a on a 6k running watt generator, without PFC you would need 7500-9k depending on its efficiency. Running two generators with over5k running watts each would give more than enough power to run any inverter machine up to around 220a output. My esab rebel 235 could easily hit 250a on that setup, which is some serious output.
The parallel kits are easy to use and typically come with a 50a plug and a setup where you can actually get 40+ amps out of it. Depending on how much longer I am at the tin shed I may end up buying a second predator and running both to get more output as needed.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I checked the parallel kit that is made for the Honda generator and it looks like it doesn’t have the 50amp outlet it’s still the 30amp. Can I use other brand parallel kit such as the one for the predator generators if I end up using the Honda generators? If not then can I use an adapter from the 30amp outlet to 50amp if I use the Honda parallel kit? Thk u!
I have a arccaptain mig 200 amp inverter machine. I was looking at the inverter generators from harbor freight. What size would you recommend? Plan on mainly mig using tge 220 outlet.
So most 200 amp inverters need a minimum of 30amp breaker to output 180-200a. So a realistic minimum would be around 7k running watts minimum. If you absolutely need 100% of its 200a output you would need something like a 8k running watt generator realistically. At lower outputs (140a and less) you could use a smaller generator (say a 5500 running watt).
Great info!
Im looking to power a 315amp inverter welder for ac tig welding with a generator.
What can you recomend?
I work in the marine industry and need to weld on the field.
You’re going to need a substantial generator to power that. When you start taking 300amp + inverters the power consumption generally goes up. Most 300amp machines tend to only be efficient when designed for/run on 3 phase power. Most don’t have that great of power factor or efficiency to be honest. The bare minimum generator you would want is 13k running watt, and that’s if your tig machine is at the highest level of efficiency. You could wind up pretty easily at 15k running watt to be able run at 300a. To maintain longevity of everything you need to get a low THD generator, which are far more common in the 12k watt+ class than in the sub 9k.
Thank you so much for in-lighting us . I guess if you weld railway rails , you got what it takes, but for us "farm welders" mobility is important . What is your views on Car/truck alternator welders? The new battery powered welders? or the good old story with 3 car batteries and you are good to go? Can any of these do decent reliable welding in the field?
So I have welded with car batteries but I have not welded with one of those onboard alternator/generator setups. I do a lot of serious off roading and do on trail repairs. I actually use a portable acetylene setup pretty often for trail repairs. I actually just ordered a battery welder so you will see that in future videos.
The biggest limitation of any portable setup is sizing it for the expected use. A small engine drive welder can weld all day with a couple gas cans worth of fuel. The battery powered welders like the fronius and esab can only run 14-30 3/32 rods, which is not much. The fronius battery unit can weld and charge at the same time on a small 2500 watt generator. The bigger engine drive welders (think trailblazer 325) can air arc which saves huge time over grinding cracks/failed welds out, and can weld for 2-3k hours without major issues. The smaller welder generators often require far more maintenance (many don’t have oil filters) and flat out don’t last as long.
For the average person doing small in field repairs in the area and on a farm, I would much rather have a small engine drive welder over a battery powered unit, alternator welder, etc. they are simple, work reliably, and you have enough power. Battery welders are great for stick/tig welding inside factories or on an off road trail where even a small size generator is too big to haul around.
man I just bought a predator 9500 for 1800ish from HF last weekend on sale and this is perfect
That’s the generator I have and it’s proven to work great. It still pays to have a welder with PFC. The fp200 in this video (typical 200amp mig machine) will trip the 30a breaker on the generator at the higher end of its output. It’s actually 90% efficient but the poor power factor causes excessive input loading, thus breaker trips. It runs my dynasty perfect (which is very sensitive for input voltage), and under heavy loads the voltage remains stable/pure sine wave holds up. I am happy with the 9500, It should do good for you. Make sure you pickup a magnetic oil dipstick for it, there is no oil filter so you want atleast a magnet on the dipstick to capture metal particles.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg oh I had no idea about the magnetic dipstick that is great advice what brand do you recommend?
I have recently purchased a millermatic 140 120v machine …
I also found a killer deal on a axemen 8000/6500 inverter generator to run it to be able to practice . Since I live in an apartment …
This should be sufficient?????
Also the 120v 30amp receptacle on the generator is different than the 3prong on the welder .
Can I just wire the correct plug into the welder wire and remove the 3prong on the machine cord ??
Congrats on the setup and I think you should be able to weld with it. The miller 140 should have high enough power factor that it should be able to achieve near max output if not max output on a 30 am outlet. You will 100% want to put that on a 30amp 120 outlet. The generator 20amp circuit will trip, unlike a household 20 amp which won’t. Generators have far less forgiveness when it comes to loads over a breaker rating. They often times only achieve their max output with multiple breakers used and a balanced load.
Which brings up an important point. Most welders will run better on 240v vs 120 because the generator can only handle so much output on a single leg of the output. Take my generator for example, it can do 7600 running watts. It can only do that if both hot wires are used, be it 240 or 120 with multiple outlets used. A single side of the generator can’t handle 7600 watts. This becomes a major problem because many cheap 120-140a welding machines will load the input line to 35a due to reactive power and poor efficiency. Well even my 7600 running watt generator can’t handle that much load so the welding machine overloads it. I ran into this exact problem with an arc captain 130a welder, it almost kills the generator just to weld 1/8th material because it’s trying to place a 35a load on the 30a circuit lol. It still does the same on a house hold circuit, but the voltage doesn’t drop like it does on a generator.
As far as the 30a 120 outlet, you can get 30a adapters to 20amp from hardware stores or Amazon. The welder will run on that fine, and that breaker will function more like a 20a household breaker.
Great video alot of information in this thank you!! Quick question
I have a 9500W PEAK AND 7600W running (inverter generator with a 50A 240plug) (pulsar is the brand) and a inverter welding machine that’s rated at 50A at 230V do you think I would have any problems with that ? I haven’t actually tested it yet still trying to break in the generator
So 50a at 240v is 12000 watts. It’s very common for generators to have “50 amp” outlets but not enough power to hit that. Depending on what welder it is you may be able to hit max output. Many welders use a 50amp plug despite not needing it. For mig your generally limited to 200a for an inverter on 7600 running watts, stick about 170amp, tig about 210. It could be more or
Less depending on machine.
You sir have a new subscriber here! You broke that down to about as simple as someone with your knowledge can and my lightning slow mind is still trying to compute lol.... I have a 8750w/7000w Wen pure sine wave inverter generator and a 220 Vulcan Omnipro inverter welder. How do I find out if the welder is power factor? or can you please tell me what the max I can tig weld without burning anything up? Ive been out of work for a few months and need to practice my tig for a new job but at the same time trying not to go over using 2000 kw to save on my electric bill and thought that maybe I can just use the generator and not run my electric bill up. I definately dont want to fry either machine and in all reality I'm not so sure I'd actually be saving any money this way.Thx
So the power factor would have to be either calculated via a measuring device, or found in the manual of the machine. Odds are it would have .55 to .70 power factor. A good indication of low power factor is if you amp meter an input wire and your meter reads a lot of amperage (ie over 35amps). The device is likely pushing reactive power back to the generator and its true power use is much less. The problem is the generator has to deal with this reactive power so it can cause issues.
As far as output is concerned, tig operates at a low output voltage. 200amps at 15 volts is 3,000 watts. Even with a poor power factor and average inverter efficiency, you should be able to hit 180-200a on that generator. I have doubts you would be able to hit max output of 220 but 180-190 should be ok.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thank you so very much Greg. What a prompt reply. That made my day 😊 I thought for sure I wouldn't be able to crank it up to 180 amps without causing any damages and definitely was not aware that tig uses lower voltage. Man I really need to learn more about voltage and amps. So I'm guessing with stick welding I'd be ok too since I probably won't go more than 125 amps with 7018 but I did see something about adding 25% on top if using 6010
What inverter generator do you recommend to power the Vulcan Omnipro 220. Do you think the Champion 8750/7000 inverter generator will work in conjunction with said welder? Very informative video with a lot of good information.
I have not hands on tested the 220, but I looked up its manual. Based on what I am seeing it seems to be efficient but I am unsure if it has power factor correction. A normal 200amp inverter non power factor corrected mig machine will need a full 30 amp breaker (7,200 running watt) to hit 180-200amps output. It will be that or better. If I had to take a guess I bet you could hit 200amps mig output on a 7k running watt generator. I bet the breaker would trip above that. Stick output somewhere around 160amps. Realistically that is quite a bit of power and if you want to do mobile repairs it should tackle a majority of what you might want to do.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I appreciate the quick response, and the Thoroughness of your video. You have gained a subscriber. Thanks brother
@@nathanduffel6058 no problem 😀👍. I am trying to do what I can to see people out fixing stuff & making money 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I will let you know the results of the omnipro with that generator when I go and pick it up .
I've been looking at whole house generator sets. Are they a possibility for running an inverter welder? I've seen some used ones for a reasonable price with higher KW ratings.
You could run an inverter on a whole house generator (or a conventional generator). If either is a low THD generator you should have good longevity of the welder. I am unsure if whole house generators are low THD or not. I am also unsure as to how those generators are designed from an intended use perspective. If they are used for emergency and not designed for a lot of use (aka no oil filters, difficulty to service them, etc) they may not be the best option. A normal portable generator is easy to service and will also often run on propane or gas, whole house generators don’t typically run on gas, something to think of when it comes to capabilities.
In my dads garage there is time delay fuses and as far as the manual on my hobart 210mvp it specifies having a 30amp time delay on 230v. So is a time delay fuse better than a traditional breaker? The garage is on a 50amp breaker that feeds the garage from the house panel. I wish i understood more about electricity lol i believe on a normal breaker it specifies 35 amp breaker for the 210mvp
So time delay fuses work just like a breaker. They will allow overcurrent through them for a short period of time. They won’t allow more current through them than a standard breaker, and once they “blow” you must replace them. The 210mvp should run on a 30a time delay fuse without issue at higher output. If you had a normal fuse you would probably need a 40a fuse and the power wire to support it.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thank you Greg. Appreciate the response my friend!
@@makingmistakeswithgreg my grandfather wired in our old tombstone into the panel on that 30amp circuit. So I need to disconnect it and run some 6 or 8 guage out of the panel in the garage to a nema 6-50R surface mount receptacle to be able to use my 210 on 230. Kind of a bummer but should be easily done
@@makingmistakeswithgreg the main power feed run into the garage I believe is direct burial aluminum wire to feed the garage and its quite thick don't know the guage off hand
So what size generator should I be running using a miller maxstar 161 s
The maxstar 161 is a extremely efficient welder and likely has power factor correction. I bet it would achieve its max output of 160a with stick on a 4500 running watt generator. Scratch start tig would require even less generator power. Keep in mind at reduced power output (say 120a) you would likely be able to run it on a 3500 running watt generator. You must be careful though, a household outlet doesn’t have poor power output or the voltage drop that a generator can, so using it on a undersized generator or on one with dirty power will likely lower the longevity of the welder.
Great video greg you’re really helping out the new generation with your unique knowledge I really appreciate it. So I’ve been wanting a dynasty 400 and I was wondering what are your thoughts if you hook it up to a miller big blue 500 generator???The generator supplies 20k of running watts on three phase using a 240v 50amp receptacle. On the dynasty 400 specification sheet 20k running watts is what is required. Do you think the breaker on the big blue 500 generator would trip???….On the dynasty 400 the (amps input for rated load output for 230v) using 3phase at 300amps is 33.
Thanks for the kind words 😀. Regarding your question, I looked up a bunch of spec sheets, did some calculations, and came to the conclusion I don’t believe the breaker would trip. The dynasty 400 is highly efficient but I am unsure if it has power factor correction though (the 210/300 do). I would assume it does. The rated amp load is 33a but that’s at 300amp 32v. At 400amp it would be in the ballpark of 55 amps. Although that’s slightly over your breaker rating, that would require absolutely maxing the machine out, and the big blue shouldn’t have any issues handling that kind of load. One of the more unique things with tig is it operates at lower voltage than most other welding processes. So say 300 amps with TIG is far less power consumed on the input than 300a with stick. My guess is at 400a with tig it probably wouldn’t hit over 50a, especially because of the 3phase input has more average input voltage than single phase. You should be good to go with that combo.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg 😃 thanks for your input I was really looking forward to this video for a while. I did send an email to miller as well and they said it should be good just to keep the big blue 500 on high idle but I also wanted your thoughts I trust you. Hey I’m trying to make some kind of mobile aluminum welding business. Just curious what kind of aluminum work have you done? What are some ideas for an aluminum business if you don’t mind me asking? Thank u!
Awsome video! I saw a guy running a 5500 watt generator with Lincoln ac 225 at 90amps im guessing 3/32 rod , im not sure how it worked so well for him . I have 5000 Running watt inverter generator all i can do on my lincon is 40 amps with 1/16 6013 rods haha
So a 5500 wtt generator (if thats running watts) would probably power a tombstone at 90 but barely. One thing you have to remember is that tombstone is basically just a transformer and doesn’t care what the input voltage is. More than likely the input voltage was dropping well under what it should be and the generator (being non inverter) doesn’t care about that. Inverter generators do a much better job of regulating output voltage. As that tombstone setup loaded the generator and the output voltage dropped on the generator, the amperage output on the welder would drop. My guess is that 90a setting was probably more like 80a or less actual output. With the Inverter welder you have it will likely power off due to low input voltage rather than allowing you to weld.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Wow! Thank you a ton!
Is there a difference say doing aluminum over regular steel on a welder as far as how much generator I would need I’m looking to run a prime weld 225 to do aluminum side work nothing thicker than maybe 3/8-1/4” thick would the inverter predator 9500 work for something like that or would I be looking at something with more power?.
So I have ran my dynasty 210 on my 9500 predator. The generator will power the dynasty at 210a out on a/c without tripping the 30a breaker. Keep in mind the dynasty has power factor correction and is very efficient at max output. I have a feeling the primeweld 225 would need 35a to 40a in to output its max. It would probably output around 180 amps on the predator 9500, possibly a bit more. To get the full output a 10-11k generator would likely be needed.
Edit: the huge benefit you have with tig is it operates at low output voltage. You can get far more output amperage with tig over stick. The primeweld would probably only hit 160a with stick on a 9500 generator.
I know this question is probably crazy but with a 140 welder from harbor freight it uses 120v so what generator would you recommend if one can't affored the higher dollar ones.
So I have a video coming out on this exact idea and it will be out within a week. In the meantime hopefully this helps:
The feasibility of a 120v welder on a cheap generator is poor at best. The issue is literally every 120v welder grossly overloads breakers. It’s not uncommon for a 120v welder to load the input line to 30-37 amps. A household breaker will handle this but a generator breaker won’t. Not to mention it will cause a destruction of the a/c wave form due to the overload on a generator. In simple terms most 120v welders run extremely poorly on a generator. The only way this might work reasonably well would be with a power factor corrected welder, they are more efficient and are less likely to cause the generators power to become dirty.
Edit: I forgot to mention but I tried running a yes welder and arc captain 120v flux core machines on my 9500 generators 30amp 120 outlet. Both of them overloaded it trying to weld just 1/8th steel and both shut themselves off. A purely transformer welder will likely work better but the generator won’t like it much still lol.
I'm looking at a generator for a welder. The Welder output will do Tig 250A/20V at 60% Duty. I'm just doing Tig, so I won't do more than that. That gives 250a x 20v = 5000watts. + 20% power over = 6000watts. So I'd need a Generator with 6000+ watts. Is this correct? Thanks
It will come down to the power factor of the machine. Poor power factor will cause reactive power to trip breakers despite the machine not actually consuming enough power to cause breaker trips. 250a is pretty significant, and many tig welders capable of that output are not designed with power factor correction. On face value 250a at 20v is 5k watts of output. The most efficient machines are 90% efficient at best. That means about 5500 watts is the minimum in theory. In reality you’re going to need a bigger generator than that. I believe the esab rebel 235 I have (capable of 250a of tig) could hit 250a on a 30a breaker on a 7500 running watt generator. I know for a fact most 250a machines will never hit 250amp on anything less than a 40a breaker and some on a 50. If you truly need 250a you have two options: Buy a very efficient power factor corrected welder and a 6500-7500 running watt generator, or buy a inefficient welder and a 10-12k generator to get a 50a breaker. I know that’s kind of a convoluted situation, but that’s the reality. Welders overload house breakers really bad and when trying to run on a generator they can’t be overloaded the same.
I have a 10kw generator with 50amp breaker 240 vac, and when running my cheap primeweld ct520dp multiprocess machine on stick at anywhere above 100amps when I strike an arc the generator will load up and its governor will increase its speed, but this results in a dip in current at my welding electrode and the arc will usually go out, it doesn't trip the breaker but it does make for a very frustrating welding experience. Any tips on ways I could correct this? I've thought about adjusting the running speed of the generator to run faster, but this likely throws off the output for other things and I depend on this generator for a lot of stuff as I live off grid and need it to run my well pump. I've corrected it in the past by using smaller electrodes and lowering the current output on the welder, but that makes a quick job a lot more difficult and takes a lot longer, thus consuming more fuel and costing more money. It's maddening. Any suggestions would be welcome, thanks for all your great videos!
Man that sucks. I have a couple thoughts. How good are you at stick welding? If you struggle to start an arc occasionally it could create what I call a “death spiral” where the generator will ramp up and down attempting to handle the load. This may be what’s going on. My first thought was 100a of stick would be in the area of at worst 5-6k watts even with poor power factor since that machine is an inverter. Your generator has a lot more power than that available. I would experiment with putting a 1-2k watt load (think electric heater) on the generator and then running the welder with the load already on it. The generator may be off idle and able to respond to the welder demand better. Adjusting the idle a bit higher may help, but you want to monitor the voltage. Welders can handle 240v plus or minus a bit (remember 240v is the rms value, peak is over 300). You definitely don’t want to be inputting 280v rms.
What you described is also somewhat typical. On a house with instantaneous power, you flat out don’t have a lot of issues with welders. With generators every generator is different with how it responds to a load, and every welder functions different. I have noticed the more expensive welders universally work better on a generator than cheaper ones, but even then it’s no guarantee. I wish it wasn’t such a disaster getting things to work right.
@makingmistakeswithgreg thank you so much for that suggestion, I have noticed that if there is a small load on the generator that is generally responds better. As for how good a welder I am, I honestly couldn't tell you since I learned using this set up, I might be fantastic at it if I had regular grid power lol. My welds generally look the way I want them to and preform well under the stresses they're used for so I guess that's an indication that they aren't too bad. I haven't yet tried the tig function on my primeweld machine since I don't really have access to argon being remote in alaska, but I do plan on learning that at some point, hopefully not using the generator. Mig isn't really an option here for the same reason unless you were to use flux core. Rural Alaska is a great place, but in many ways it's a huge pain in the ass. Anyway thanks again for your help and I hope you have a wonderful day!
My current “mobile” setup is a predator 4375 generator with an esab rogue 180i using a 50 amp welder plug adapter to the 4 prong adapter. With welding with 1/8 6011 on ~90 amps, would I be running out of juice on the generator? It bogs down the motor on startup, which I plan to solve with a high idle. Would I be able to run 1/8 7018 at 120 amps?
So the rogue 180 (which I owned a while back) is virtually the same efficiency as the 200 rogue. It has power factor correction and is highly efficient. 6011 takes about 28 volts to run, and about 2780 watts to operate. That’s within the range of what the generator will handle. What’s likely going on is the generators response to the load isn’t fast enough to carry the initial inrush. If you have hot start enabled that could also bring the load near max. If the welder functions ok and welds fine you could monitor the input voltage to verify it’s not dropping too far. Raising the idle may help but be careful you don’t have excessively high voltage.
As far as 1/8th 7018 vs 1/8th 6011, here is the answer: 1/8th 6011 operates at 28 or so volts and 90a, which is 2520 watts. 1/8th 7018 operates as about 23v and 120amps, or about 2760 watts. It’s close, but a bit higher.
Edit: I forgot to mention I believe the rogue series operates at about 8-10 amps higher than the setpoint. If you run 90a on a 6011 with hot start you will probably hit 100a+ the hot start or 3500 watts load. So you likely are loading the generator up a bit. My predator 9500 doesn’t even notice 90a on a 6010 or 120 on a 7018.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I noticed it does seem to be a bit spicy. No trouble running 1/8 6011 even down to 75-80 amps. This welder is the first I bought, largely based on your recommendation and it is seriously badass. I’m having trouble with knowing what settings are best, partly due to the inconsistency of my welds but for example, if I’m running 6011, do I put it in 6010 mode? Or just run it normal stick mode with some arc force added in there? When I do need hot start? I normally weld anything from 1/8 to 1/4 to just glue shit together that’s broken or cracked
I have a Honda EU7000is (5,500w continuous) inverter generator and would like to get a Miller 215. Do you think that's too much welder and I should pick up a Miller 211 instead?
So here are my thoughts on that. Both those welders will probably draw the same current at say 150a output. So buying one over the other won’t give you the ability to get more power. The limit to how much power you could get out of that welder on 5500 running watts is in the ballpark of 165-180 amps output. It’s possible it could be as low as 155a depending on how well the generator handles the welder. You wouldn’t be able to max out either machine on that generator unfortunately.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks for the reply! Do you have any recommendations for a similarly high quality mig welder that would be a better match for that generator?
If I use a inverter welder, do I have to use an inverter generator?
You don’t have to. Inverter generators typically output the same quality of a/c power as the wall outlet. Non inverters output less pure sine wave. Many inverter welders would prefer to have pure sine wave. If in doubt contact the welders manufacture as to what they would recommend. Most will specify “low THD” which is normally found mostly on inverters.
So i just purchased a wen inverter generator with 4800 watts surging and 4000 watts running. I have an arccaptain 200 mig multiprocess welder and now im wondering if the generator will be suffice to run the welder doing hobby type work seldomly?
So 4000 watt running might get to about 90-110a of output on that machine. The arc captain machine doesn’t have power factor correction so it will cause a load up on the input side. Also, if the generator is 240v you must run the welder on 240. If it’s only capable of 120v you will probably barely get above 70a of output on the welder before it trips the breaker.
100amps of wire would limit you to around 1/8th material or so.
@makingmistakeswithgreg so the generator has the RV ready plug that is the larger 3 prong that's rated at 30 amps. I had bought an adapter to go from that outlet to the 240 plug in. Would that be ok. It's a TT 30 rv 30amp to a 6 50
It should be noted that breakers are not there to protect your equipment. Breakers are there to prevent the wiring from overheating and starting electrical fires.
You are correct. And breakers don’t monitor the output quality either, so a generator could be outputting pure trash that will damage the welder, without the breaker tripping. There are a lot of sketchy cheap generators out there 😮.
Hopefully, the breaker on the welder is properly sized and spec’d.
I have powerkraft 295 amp welder. Also a holbart 20 amp wire core welder. A 9300 wat peak firman genator. Can I weld?
So the 295 amp welder would need a 70a breaker more than likely to get anywhere near max output. The most actual output I think you would see on a 9300 watt generator with that stick welder is probably 110amps before the breaker would trip. It would weld with most 3/32 rods but that’s about it. As far as the wire welder that should run on the generator just fine. You may trip the 120v breaker more on the generator than a house outlet though, depending on how sensitive the generators breakers are.
So I should be OK to run my Lincoln Mig 180 with a Champion 11250 Start 9000 Run watt Generator....YES???? and would it be better to plug into the 50 amp plug?????
So the mig 180 will run on a 9k running watt generator just fine. I would run it off the highest outlet amperage it has. Keep in mind that generator doesn’t output pure sine wave, but it should be clean enough that the welder should be ok. Make sure if the generator has adaptive idle (aka it runs slow with no load) that you avoid using that for the welder. It can cause a big voltage drop when you start the arc.
what are your thoughts on a running an invertor machine off a conventional generator that claims to have under 5% THD?
If it's actually a reputable company, I'd scroll to the reviews and ctrl-f search for "welder" or "welding" to see if anyone else has used it for that purpose.
What generator have you found with those specs?
If it’s low THD it should be low enough to run more “sensitive” electronics on. Generally speaking under 5% THD would qualify for “low” The problem is, actual low THD generators that aren’t inverters are pretty uncommon below 10k watt output. I know they are out there, just uncommon.
Edit: also, it pays to check in the manual or contact the manufacture. Lincoln and miller generally specify low THD. Some welders I have seen flat out say “not to be run on a generator”. That may be partly to scare people into not plugging them into a dirty power generator and causing it to fail.
@@Richard-Freeman powerhorse 11,050/8400
@@pm-bn9zt Thank you, definitely going to check that out.
Edit: Holy crap... At that price, I'd be willing to put my Vulcan Omnipro 220 on the line. I'm going to upgrade the welder eventually anyway.
@@pm-bn9ztHey man, the 13,000/10,000 Powerhorse is $200 off right now on Northern Tool. I just ordered one. Including tax and lift gate service, $2035
So if I have the generator in this video, can I run titanium 225 at say 120 amp 7018 and 6010 at 90 amps or so? How effective would this be?
So I actually ran that same welder on the generator. At near 200amps the output starts to get really wonky. At 120amps for a 7018 and 90 for a 6010 you will be 100% fine. You shouldn’t have any longevity or functioning issues below about 160amps. That welder doesn’t have power factor correction, which is why it loads up a generator pretty good.
Roger that, I have this genny and rarely weld above 130 amps. So I figured I would be good but hadn’t tested for myself. So glad to hear this!! Thanks partner
Hey Greg. Your knowledge is impressive. I am just curious...do you have an engineering degree or did you just learn this stuff via your own research? Again, thank you for putting out content that helps us novices!
I don’t have an engineering degree, but I do have an associates degree the law field with a ton of other credits in random things (welding, plumbing, auto, etc). Most of what I know with electrical came from playing with tvs and electronics for the last 30+ years and accumulating useless info. I also worked for 14 years as a plant operator and worked with industrial electricians so you pickup a lot of info 😀.
Thank you. Gaining knowledge doesn't always have to come from a formal, academic setting. Hands-on education can often be the best way. And now, I can benefit from your knowledge. Have a great day!
Seeing these power consumption tables, only one statement comes to my mind: God bless the three-phase power grid in Poland. 😆 My mig esab 340c runs on a three-phase 16-amp breaker. And the fronius iwave 230i is satisfied with a single-phase 16-amp breaker. And according to the manufacturer, a generator with a continuous power of 5 kW is enough for it.
3 phase is available in the USA, but not at a house unfortunately. You guys are a bit ahead of the US when it comes to electrical lol. One of the interesting things is the big push here for electric everything (cars and even furnaces). The average house here doesn’t have anywhere near the electrical capability to run an electric furnace.
One upside to the transformer welders is that take will take dirty power all day without an issue. No need for a fancy inverter or low THD generator with them. So you can go big and dirty to feed them.
I probably forgot to mention that, and you’re 100% correct. I would imagine the output may be slightly off in comparison to being hooked to the wall, but they will definitely have minimal concerns over failing due to dirty power. Considering you can get pretty big dirty power generators for fairly cheap, it’s definitely an option. I just don’t want to lift the welder into a truck to do a mobile job 😅. Perfect for a farm though.
Gather up kids! School's in session.
What are the cheapest five PFC mig welders? the rogue isn't too crazy at $800-$900. Flux mainly for farm work and don't see geting a tank to haul around in my truck to fix a gate/fence/snow plow/ tractor implement/etc or something. Not stick plz ;) I have stick covered.
I think you could make a lot of money running different machines on a generator, like project farm does with his channel. Do top 5 cheap machines, top 5 pfc machines, etc then sell the machines. I think the general non welder hobbie public would want to see cheap and doable/ reliable with numbers and a rating system. I would watch a ton of videos to see individual machines, esp with the data specs. I'm really curious about dual 240v and 120v machines. Wouldn't a 30a 240 welder draw = 60a at 120v so then why is it that my predator inverter 3800w can run my weldpro mig155hd at 133-ish/ 18.5v-ish to do 1/8th" plate in 120v mode? But thier 120v plug is 20amps so it doesn't make sense. But the weld was burning hot. Wierd
Most welders on 120v overload the circuits. In the past I have tested different welders and it’s very common for cheap welders to hit 30-34 amps on a 20amp breaker. A bunch of the power is reactive power, but for the sake of the breaker it doesn’t matter. Keep in mind this is maxed out on settings. Any settings below max will have a reduction in current draw. A great example would be say 120a 18v output (while running) is 2160 watts (not including reactive power or inefficiencies of the machine). Up the voltage to 21v and it’s 2520 watts, a significant jump. Your breaker probably trips at 27-30a which is why it will run those settings on the machine.
Welders with PFC generally fall under the higher priced category. Many millers, esabs, and fronius machines have it. Lincoln I am unsure about. Virtually everything on Amazon doesn’t have it unfortunately.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg cool good to learn. Just ordered the 30a to 20 amp gen adapter also. I did see a few open cage inverter gens last night while searching. I think it was 1200 for 7k watts at HF. Remote was good when I didn't have solar and 6k inverter. We would turn it on in the am from inside to make coffee etc. Now no remote is okay.
Another video ive watched at least 10 times and still cant figure out what generator will run the esab 180i used only for stick, can anyone help me out!! Thank you in advance!!
I owned the 180 but never tested it for current draw. I have a feeling it could hit 180a output on a 5500 running watt generator.
Asking if I'd get a harbor freight 13000 watt generator thats $1200.00 will that run the stick welder, mig, tig 140 thats 120v. I know the clean powers not there but im not using it daily at age 70
I believe you asked a different question regarding this but I will answer this one as well. 120v welders function very poorly on generators. 120v welders often grossly overload circuits and generators are not designed to allow 33-40a through on a 120v outlet. So the success of doing this is going to come down to the specific welder and generator. It’s unlikely that even on a 30a 120 breaker to be able to get close to 140a welder output on 120v. I will have a video out soon describing this in detail with testing to show what’s going on. 😀👍
Does anybody know whot multiprocess welder has pfc? I am not looking for top of the line, but instead buying something up to 200amps to practicing welding and mostly outside.
So the best way to find out is to contact a company directly. Out of all the multi process welders out there it’s safe to assume that anything other than a miller, esab (in specific the rebel series, not their other ones), fronius, some HTPs, and some Lincoln’s, won’t have PFC. To make matters even worse, if you look at 120v only machines virtually none of them will run properly on a 120v generator because the grossly overload circuits (think 35a draw on a 20a circuit and it will trip breakers). My 7600w running generator can’t even run an arc captain 135 welder because of how bad its power factor is.
At the 200amp class machine the esab rebel 215 is probably the best option for running on 120 and 240, and on a generator. Most other machines (like Esabs own 210emp multi process) will trip breakers on a 7600 running watt generator around 180a of output. I wish there was a cheaper way to get a setup that works properly on minimum power but there simply isn’t.
Couple words of advice: anything sold on Amazon (arc captain, yes welder, or cheaper) will all perform poorly on 120v and on a generator. They also generally weld poorly to begin with. You’re always best off with too big of a generator for your needs, welding is a serious demand on a generator. When it comes down to cost there are many smaller engine drive stick welders that function better and are cheaper than a separate generator and a welder. Problem with that is they don’t do wire welding and trying to run a average mig welder on them is a lost cause due to lack of (and dirty) power (small engine drives don’t have much generator power). All in one machines are universally worse than stand alone welders, and are expensive. You don’t want to damage them by running them on poor power.
Links:
ruclips.net/video/CxxH6rQXm1Y/видео.htmlsi=64IlswUfsJXD2vqo
ruclips.net/video/bj67U1_WuQM/видео.htmlsi=XGx-bnk52JxUqW5K
bypass the circuit breaker and add a fan to the generator