Preditor low output: Could be the fuel you used. Did you use a high octane fuel, or regular gas? Also might have issues using gasoline with Ethanol. Preditor recommends a premium, high octane fuel. Another consideration is your altitude, as all engines lose power when above sea level.
Why did you choose the hyperHeat over the Universal unit? Also are you concerned that the air handler and ducting is located in the unconditioned space?
Been watching y'all's videos for some time, your wife is a rare catch she can do things lots of men can't! Like the excited nature of this video. As a traveling horse rider I use and have been around lots of different generators. For a large run everything with a generator I prefer the WinCo (only American made on the market) very dependable. My horse trailer with full living quarters has central heat and air also has a separate gas heater . I have a solar system that normally powers everything but air conditioner 13,500 BTU I run a predator 3500 inverter generator. It handles it is great is super quiet and very fuel efficient. I currently have one unit that has over 4500 hours on it and only had one issue. At around 3,800 hours the ignition module died but was easily replaced. Around 90 percent of the people traveling the areas that I do are also running the Predators. Dollar for dollar they are extremely hard to beat and have proven to be very reliable . I do have a couple of Onan RV gensets they are good but don't seem to hold up against the Predator even though Onan is a division of Cummins! As you stated the Predator can be used in other applications and I think you will be very well pleased with that investment!
One thing to keep in mind when comparing against stated output is altitude, so derate by 3% for every 1000 ft above sea level. These are combustion engines, and around where I live generators can only generate about 85% of their nameplated capacity. Same goes for cars and anything else with a combustion engine. Great video by the way, and thanks for posting!
Good point. Pretty sure the Kohler has an altitude switch at least the ones I have seen do. Doubt the Predator does and the California compliant carburetor would prevent adjustment of the needles.
Yup. It’s stated as 4% per 1000ft in the kohler manual. The predators are just wildly overrated. They are using a 10hp single which in my experience will never make 10000 watts. All the commercial 10k gensets I work on use at least a twin.
Your ladder setup at 16:40 gave me flashbacks! I'm a now retired career firefighter and had a ladder accident. I was up at the 2nd floor and the ladder slipped on the asphalt driveway. I ride the ladder down and my left knee went between the rings and hit the asphalt first. It shattered my patella into 7 or 8 pieces . I had multiple operations and was out of work for an entire year. BE CAREFUL!
@@catgynt9148 best job I ever had. You'd go home at the end of shift knowing you helped somebody. Whether it be a house fire, car accident, medical call, or just helping a homeowner pump out their basement after a flood or broken pipe.
@@criticalevent a lot was my own fault for breaking the rule of always having someone "footing" the ladder preventing it from kicking out like that. Still kick myself for being too impatient to get someone to foot the ladder.
Completely agree with @brianbeuning9279's comment regarding THD below. If you are running lights and sump pumps dirty power shouldn't cause any issues. But, with today's modern appliances, HVAC, TV's, Computers, Cell Phones, etc. dirty power is a show stopper. A very large percentage of the non-inverter Harbor Freight type generators (DuroMax, Champion, Generac to name a few) all have between 12 and 23% THD. Some of the larger Westinghouse open frame generators (WGEN 11500 TFC) have THD below 6% which is considered clean power. Inverter generators provide pure sine wave power, so less than 2% THD, but they are exensive! This is actually cleaner than power from your power company in most cases, they provide 5% or less THD. So, when shopping for a portable home backup generator, the first items on your check list should be continuous wattage output and THD. Your pocket book and sensitive electronics will thank you 🙂 Great video by the way!!!!!
Keep in mind too, in the creator's use case, the inverter and battery setup they have is "sanitizing" the power too. IE, you might have a higher THD on the predator generator, but it's only being consumed by the Victron's. Then the Victron's are powering the house, and their THD should be much lower.
I am in Thailand. Modern Electronic converts the AC to DC, cleans it and converts it to whatever it really needs in a regulated way. They can take amazing dirty electric without any problems. Exception LED lights.
I don't know about that being for sure, I run a 4000 watt old Coleman Powermate that varies from 133V to 103V, depending on load, with Hz in a similarly *bad* range, and have powered my home during outages with it, (and some judicious power-management, e.g. only starting the well at higher voltages, turning other heavy loads off) for decades!! (I just came off of a 72 hour + outage) -The only losses that *might* be attributable to the dirty power is the power supply to my computer twice in 25 years... (and that is only a possibility, they weren't while under gen-set power..)
We built our house before utility power was installed using a 10,000 Chinese generator. Paid $999 for it on sale and budgeted for it to last thru the build and be garbage. 16 years later I still use it in an emerg to power the whole house (excluding 3 ton ac unit) including 2 fridges, deep freeze, furnace, computers, sump pump, 3/4 hp well pump, lights, televisions etc. Dirty power? Likely not “dirty”, but surely slightly soiled. Normally silent Hunter ceiling fans slightly hum but never had an electronic device misbehave, never destroyed anything connected. Maybe we’ve been lucky. Maybe due to an inductive load always being part of the equation smoothing out power? Who knows.
THD = Total Harmonic Distortion (clean power rating) Kohler is rated for THD < 5% Predator 13000 has THD < 23% Appliances are required to support THD < 5% With the Kohler, it can feed power direct to home and home appliances will be happy. With Predator and direct feed, some appliances (like curling iron) may not work. If you can set Victron's so generator charges batteries and inverters power home, then it will be good. Battery chargers don't mind noisy power. Thanks for interesting video.
"curling iron" : I highly doubt that there would be a problem with a curling iron on a high THD generator. They are basically just a resistive heating element with no microprocessor control. Appliances with microprocessor controls, such as a Fridge, Washing Machine, heating system, etc, will be the ones that have issues with 'dirty' power.
Wonderful comparison, I am impressed, HOWEVER, being a US Navy Nuclear Submarine Veteran electronics tech, I would have kept the Diesel Generator and put a remote start module on it. So much more robust and longevity would be at hand. In addition you guys are heavy users of diesel fuel which you keep on hand. 73's KV4WM, Dennis
Hey shipmate, I too am an ET (nuc) sub veteran and I sold them the old MEP 804. I rewired it from 3 phase to two so it produced full 15kw at 240 volts. The big thing I noticed was the fuel usage as well as longevity. My MEP 802 used .5 gal/hr while his uses 2 gal/hr and my mep actually puts out 6.5 kw continuous for approx 20k hours overhaul cycle. I would have kept the old reliable also. ETCM(SS) Ret John
Than you for your service sir! While I agree with the idea of using the Diesel and I know Riley is fully capable of making it work, I think its worth pointing out for those that don’t realize, automating the Diesel would be much more complex and expensive project because it isn’t self regulating. So in addition to run and start you also have to worry about closing the breaker, voltage and engine RPM control. Again I’m sure you know that and Riley is capable, it’s just more time and $$.
That old 804 certainly couldn't be automated, but the newer 802/3/4/5 are capable of automation and a you tuber made an app and hardware to do so, check it out. Snook, Florida. Nevada, Ohio, Michigan. KG7VBM
First: Riley, you are amazing! I have met other geniuses in my >70 years on earth, but you are one of the best communicators among them. Your insatiable curiosity is contagious. Secondly, I would add one more test to them both: how RF "clean" are they. I would ask one of my ham radio buddies to measure the sine wave, spurious RF and then run them through a "whole house" surge protector & a UPS as a buffer for computer / "smart" stuff. Thank you, all 5, for lifting my spirits! (Rain in LA Mesa, CA, now.) Blessings. 🙏🤲🙌📖😀
Wow! That is an amazing compliment. Thanks! And thanks for supporting me in getting to do the things that I love to do! I actually bough an oscilloscope to check the sin waves, but of course it didn't arrive in a timely manner. I suspect the Kohler would be a lot "cleaner".
@@luisarevalo8394 Alternating Current (AC) uses a sine wave alternating at 60 cycles per second in the USA. Many lower cost "generators" produce Direct Current (DC) then change it into AC for use with household appliances. The quality of the AC sine wave varies greatly. This becomes important with sensitive devices like computers and radio transceivers. They can introduce a lot of radio frequency noise which can interfere with radio reception and transmission (like shortwave, amateur radio, etc.). There are many articles on the Internet to explain better than I can. All the best.
I'm wondering if the remote start modification affected the $399 service plan / 2 year guarantee.. or did Riley just decided to scrap it and trust the build quality of the cheaper generator (I recall one of their generators with 30 days guarantee broke after 31 days)
Riley/Courtney - thanks for the video - good observations! My wife Karen and I are living a similar off-grid life here in Michigan with solar, generators, etc. We have two portable Predator 3500s, one portable Generac 5K, one Champion 10K, and recently added a Kohler 20K. My first year of use on the Champion as our primary generator put 400 hours on the machine. About that time, the generator's governor stopped being reliable and I had problems maintaining stable Hertz under load. Since it was under warranty, Champion worked on it and its working pretty well again (but I'm not sure I trust it in the dead of winter). The other factor that caused me to upgrade to the Kohler was the capacity. The Champion exhibits the same problems you noticed with your Predator which was an inability to deliver its full rated output. Using propane, my Champion declares a rating of 7200 continuous but I never was able to get more than 4.5K without RPMs dragging under load (causing hz to drop, causing the inverter/charger to disconnect). Also, household appliances (microwave, stove, toaster) were not fond of the 'dirty' power from the Champion. With the new Kohler I can run full household loads and charge the battery bank at my inverter's max (48vdc/110amps). (I'm running at Schneider 6848 XWPro Hybrid Inverter). I paid $5200 for all my Kohler package from a local dealer and self-installed. My vote is for your Kohler over your Predator in the long haul -- but I do understand your appreciation for the dual fuel option, the portability, and the lower cost. It's very cool you set your Predator up for Autostart capability from your Victron gear! Nice. -Cheers from Paul and Karen Green (youtube.com/@BuildingAtTheWoods)
One more thing... we tried using an EG4 Chargeverter as a way to feed power from the 'dirty' Champion generator into our DC bus to charge our batteries. We found that to be a good way to clean up the power as the EG4 Chargeverter accepts 240 or 120vac power sources and tolerates 'dirty' power. Have the Chargeverter lets us use any of our generators to feed the batteries, even our small Predators. (You can't have too many backup options when you're depending on yourself to generate all your power needs).
Great evaluation! I spent about 35 years in the generator industry. In the end, what's best really depends on what you need it for. If I were going off grid, I'd probably buy a couple identical small diesel surplus gensets. There are several reasons why. While the up-front equipment cost is an important factor initially, the cost of making your own power over time should be a big consideration. A small 1800RPM diesel will beat any gasoline or Lp genset that runs at 3600 rpm, as the ones you tested do. The diesel wins on fuel consumption and durability and over a five- or ten-year period that will be significant. If you got 2000 hours out of either of those two gensets tested I'd be shocked. You can get 10,000 to 13,000 hours out of a diesel with a little Kubota on it. While the LP engines do very well wear wise, the 3600 rpm is what kills them. And, the general design is just not as robust as the diesel surplus gensets. Duty cycle is also very important. As you saw, what they claim and what they can actually do is two different things. If I had either of those gensets, I wouldn't base load them any more than 50% of the nameplate rating or they will come apart. If I were looking for a small diesel, my engine choices would be Kubota 1st, Yanmar second and Lister 3rd. I'd probably steer clear of any others. But, I guess if you don't mind the aggravation associated with correcting failures, you could buy 6 predators and deal with the failures as they happen and keep the good parts to repair the rest till they are all done. One other problem with all these Chinese built products is they constantly change things, so unless you bought 6 at the same time ( say, in the same year), they likely won't be identical. In the end, math will dictate the best value based on life cycle cost and fuel efficiency.
@mikeconroy2651 ... I agree, RPM's are a real killer and the only thing I would suggest is to go "Water-Cooled" Diesel based on my experience. I'm an Ex-Pat living in the Philippines and we have semi-regular so called brown-outs. They vary from 1 minute to several hours... and when we had the Cat 5 Typhoon it was 3 weeks before power was even starting to be restored. It was ugly, and it took 2 months to get reliable power service back. Our homemade 10kw water-cooled diesel got us through running about 15 hours straight per day. Then we used a 1000 watt Honda quiet type gas generator at night for lights and fans at night. We charged lights and cell phones for the locals charging a few peso's that helped to offset the fuel cost which was about 1 liter or so of diesel per hour. A country boy will survive.
@@Kevinrichardsonministries I'd take an air cooled over a water cooled, if my location allowed it. Just so much less to fail. But I doubt the P.I. is conducive to air cooled, being such a hot ambient. I've seen air cooled used in some very cold applications.
@@mikeconroy2651 ... That's a valid point Mike, as agreed... if there's a freezing risk in the location the unit is being used... one would definitely have to keep an eye on possible damage from same on a water-cooled unit. Either way... I would think keeping the RPM's at a minimum to reduce wear and tear over time would be important on either type of unit. Good Feedback Brother...
I have a Onan P4500i that I have been running for a couple years now. It has just crosses 10,000 hours. It is a small beast and has given me no issues. Very happy.
I bought the first 13,000 watt Predator generator from my local harbor freight store. I have about 900 hours on it. Zero problems. I love mine. I run mine easily on a 40# bottle which is stated as the minimum in the generator manual.
right, because the usage is too high and a smaller tank will ice up and lose pressure fast, resulting in not enough gas to run it anymore. also in very cold weather you'll want a far larger tank to combat the icing up conditions and maintain enough gas output. in reality you'd want #250lbs or greater tank(rated in gallons by then)
Before I even watch, I'll put it this way. after Hurricane Sandy I helped a half dozen people buy and connect the Predator 9500 units to their houses. WAY cheaper than CNG powered whole house units with a K on them, that BROKE constantly. People can still hate on HF all they want, but a lot of their stuff is pretty damn good.
These "chonda" generators are pretty good, I use mine for backup purposes and generally treat it like shit, it sits behind my house and maybe gets run every couple of years. It's seven years old and starts every time I've needed it and the only maintenance I've done is regular oil changes, we went 4 days with no power this summer and it didn't skip a beat. As a backup generator it's great, we don't lose power often and when we do the 10kw(which is really like 6500 watts runs almost everything in our house outside the AC, for that I have a few window units which can cool bedrooms). Value prop for a $10,000 standby generator vs a $600 harbor freight predator and a couple hundred for an interlock, breaker, wire, and a 50amp outlet, in my mind the less than $1k vs. over $10k is a no brainer.
The coffee shop trailer by me has been using a predator inverter generator 6 days a week for 3 years without issue. For the cost they are really hard to beat. Of course I have heard stories where they were DOA too. Lol
I am amazed at the knowledge you possess. I enjoy your families humor and the devotion you and your family possess. The content of your videos are very interesting and I hope you Courtney Oliver and dogs continue to give us the joy of your video’s
As a broadcast engineer, I inherited a portable backup generator at a remote mountain top transmitter site that had been modified exactly like this. It received the start command from the automatic transfer switch. It worked every time I tested it on site with a simulated failure (pulled the breaker). But inevitably, every time we had an actual power failure, it wouldn't start. We scrapped it and bought a Kohler!
In my area of Canada we get occasional blizzards that bury us in snow and knock trees down over power lines. The Christmas blizzard of 2022 knocked power out for several days while dumping 5 feet of snow in -20 windchill temperatures. People without power were desperate without heat and water pipes freezing in their homes. Most of the whole home Generacs in my area failed due to the wind driven blizzard snow clogging up and freezing the Generac intakes. My portable tri fuel generator saved the day. I set up a garden shed to shelter the generator, by running the exhaust pipe out through the wall, and installing an exhaust fan next to the generator. Hooked it up to the Natural Gas from my home, and we ran worry free for days. Furnace, fridges, lights, etc all running just fine. It all cost me a fraction of the price for a whole home Generac system.
I use a Predator generator (6500) for my off grid home. I do not have batteries or solar. We have used generators for the past 7 years. In winter I only run it 8-12 hours a day. In Summer it runs 14-16 hours a day. It IS difficult finding someone to work on it. There is another channel, James Condon, that gives great information on repairs, including torque specs and ohm readings. Good luck!!
Might add a stake in the ground and chain the Predator to keep vibrations from dropping it off that hill. I've never had to run one for house backup though, only worksite applications. Great video! I really like the expensive vs cheap/diy solutions for similar things.
Another great video! It sounds like you’re speaking another language when you’re stating all the technical terms and I have no idea what it all means, but it never the less is very impressive to see your brilliance at work!! Happy Birthday, Oliver!!
I would think I would put my time and money into automating the military generator 1st. Its my opinion that the military / army genset would be the most dependable, best documented, the cleanest (sine wave), and the easiest to find parts. It may not be the most efficient, or portable but I think I would trust the US military surplus over Harbour Frieght any day of the week in your remote location. As for fuel, you got diesel on site.
That's a good point. Do you happen to know how diesel autostarts are managed in cold weather? Is the block heated all the time, or is ether used, or something else?
@@alskjflaksjdflakjdf Lots of good questions, but my experience with them was when I was much younger, and told to look, but dont touch!! I believe they have a MEP 804 (15KW) diesel..... Other models include MEP 802 @ 5KW, 803 @10 KW, 805 @ 20KW and I think 806 and 807 at 30 and 60kw??? (dont hold me to it) There are guys that are here on you tube that rebuild, resale, and convert them. ...... Try a search on "MEP 804" at see what pops up! Good Luck
From the videos I've seen, It seems they need to manually adjust the rpm of the generator to get 60Hz. Still, I'm sure it's possible to make a system that does that automatically.
@@henrikaleksandernilsen6388It depend on the model of MEP. The old ones were mechanically controlled. We just left them at 60.5 - 61.0 hertz unloaded, and adjusted as we needed to. Then came electronic governors, that did most all of that for us.
Something to consider is a Whisper Watt, I have been on quite a few jobsites with them. They are trailer mounted, run on diesel fuel, and you can stand beside them and carry on a conversation.
cool video. my wife and I moved to southern Georgia a year and a half ago. Last summer we had hurricane Idalia run right over us. we moved here from New Jersey. Back in Jersey i bought a predator 8750 generator a few years ago, we used it for various things back in Jersey. When the hurricane hit us in Georgia we lost power for 3 days. That generator was worth its weight in gold! When we got power back all i did was treat the generator to an oil change and a new plug. It still runs like a champ. I'm a big fan of the predator line!
Agreed, but a lot of that is just that we don't buy Chinese products because we like them for any reason other than price. SO they always get us the cheapest which is why they are not great. China DOES make good stuff too, just not when they are made to be cheap. I have a Honda, for 10 years, and it ALWAYS starts. I'm off grid, use it often when rain for a few days or am working in the shop on rainy days. Starts ALWAYS.
@@aplaceholderbplaceholder9524 that’s not accurate. Honda pulled out of the market over the last 2 years. But gas generators are not banned until 2028. You can still buy them inside the state.
I’ll never reach 5000 hours with a predator 212 but for 1/4 the price of a gx 196 I’m fine with that. Plenty of people have reached into 2000 hrs with predators. I think for the price they are fantastic engines. If I had a commercial fleet of equipment I would run Honda no questions asked but if I need a motor that doesn’t break the bank harbor freight all day.
I did my own cost analysis between a smaller inverter style HF generator gasoline and the Generac automatic standby natural gas generator. Basically between maintenance contract costs (which are usually required [although you could fight with them and likely win if you did the maint yourself] to keep your 10 year warranty), the higher initial costs and the fact that after 10 years you really can't get warranty on the Generac you could actually buy a NEW HF every year for 7 to 8 years and come out ahead - add in an extended warranty and (I'd never suggest doing this) you could "upgrade" every 23 months for "free". The lack of an automatic transfer switch and not having a natural gas option (until recently) kept me seriously considering an automatic standby generator even with all of the downsides - for me the tri-fuel option and ability to "remote" start brings me a lot closer to having the best of all worlds.
If you have a Kohler and it is installed in the open air in a snow belt area you MUST keep the side air vent open and free of snow for proper cooling. These engines are air cooled. If during what we call a nor'easter here in Ct and your power goes out you BETTER get out there and keep the vents open or it MAY over heat.
I picked up the Predator 9500 inverter generator for a home backup a little over a year ago and it has served us pretty well. I like the inverter style because it’s quieter and the power is cleaner. It would be awesome to set it up with a remote control setup like this. My only challenge is my breaker panel isn’t well balanced so my legs pull a very different amount of current when on generator mode, something to fix this summer.
I have an older school predator 9000, gasoline only. I use it for power outage that occurs at least once a year if not two or more. I bought it when we lost power during a bad storm when power was out for about a week. Paid off big. That unit ran all my appliances, central air or window units. I never empirically load tested by measuring frequency, but did monitor voltage under load. It was adequate, and fit for use. I'm prepping my site for solar with tracking, I will definitely back it up with this 13,000 watt unit with a propane back up. Outstanding presentation, and building an adhoc system of relays for remote start, very impressive.
Man it’s really fun to watch you be excited about these things that you clearly love figuring out and using your brain. What a blessing for y’all to get to do this stuff, and so awesome that you share it with all of us.
That’s Funny I am on grid here in the Mountains of Montana. I own 4 Generators & 10,000 watts of Solar. I just purchased a Kohler 20 KW to be connected by the end of April. I’ve established it’s own separate 330 gal. Propane tank. So now 3 Propane tanks on the property.
Does your Kohler have a turbo to compensate for the 4% loss per 1000ft of altitude.....plus the 10% loss for LP on top of that? Mind you 14%, (1000ft) 18%, (2000ft) 22% , (3000ft) 26% (4000ft) 30% (5000ft) loss from rated output at sea level (20kw) (continuous or peak starting?) still leaves plenty......????
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq That would be an honest 20 kW continuous at sea level, less of course as you mentioned when de rated. No turbo on a two cylinder gas burner. You have max output on LP. De-rate for natural gas approximately 10%.
We've had a backup generator for 18 years (5000w continuous). 30 amps x 220v hooked directly into the meter. We lose power 3 or 4 times a year, up to 8 hours at a time (the longest has been 22 hours). It sits outside under just a canvas cover (though now under an awning). It runs for 30 min every month, has a pull start, and has no frills. In 18 years I have replaced the fuel valve ×2, had a general service once, a new muffler, and just routine maintenance. It has never failed to start, and it never stopped unexpectedly. 18 years ago, it cost $500. I've used it at fairs to power popcorn machines and fryers - no issues. I can't power everything in the house at the same time, but I can make hot water (at night with almost all the power off) and use the stove top - but no a/c or central heat (have a fireplace for that). $500 initial cost, $500 for the things mentioned above - it is a great option for grid tied backup power!
That's an excellent return - what make/brand and model is it? If they still make it, and have held to the quality standards, it may be of interest to some.
It's a Briggs & Stratton Elite Series 5500 (8500 starting). Ours was not made in China (that started after 2007), but I don't know about the new ones Saw a similar 5500 elite, but only 6500 w startup. Runs about $900. Depending on the needs, I might go for the 11,000 w models. More fuel consumption, more output.
I have often wondered about the big Honda generators with the heavy insulation and mufflers on them. I have seen them at fairs and car boot sales, and they seem to run 12-14 hours a day, up to three days a week, I suppose that they are diesel running on red. I wonder how long they last? They are audible but not in a bad way.
@crankychris2 our electric provider installed a device between the meter and the main electrical panel. We know when the power is restored when we hear the generator return to idle. Cost about $300 - installed.
I have said this before and will say it again. For your application, you really need to invest in a Direct Current (DC) Generator. Your AC based are simple, alternators and in the case of your suitcase sized inverter based. You lose power in the conversion by rectifying through your Inverter Rectifiers. You could be charging your batteries directly straight from a DC generator. Polar Power Marine is an example but not the only. These are often used in marine environments and off-grid telecommunications sites.
I was thinking the same thing, this seems like a great setup for a DC generator at the battery voltage. However I can also see why an AC genset has its advantages. If something happens with the inverters he can wire the house panels directly to the generator.
Great comparison video. I lived completely off grid for 15 years. I had a kohler backup generator for many years and it was flawless. I bought it after I had so many problems with the Ge....c. I like the idea of what you are trying to prove but most people cant do the conversions you did AND the Kohler is designed to be outdoors. Remember you get what you pay for.
Bought a generator for my house on the Island of Cebu. 36,500 watts, 4 cylinder water cooled Isuzu diesel. Max load running everything in and around the house, including the pool pumps is 25,000 watts. Overkill is good..... an engine having only 65% of its' power utilized uses about 60% of its rated fuel consumption. ...Something to keep in mind.
One of the problems I used to encounter as a Repairman with the Cheaper Chinese Generators is the fact that they use Aluminum instead of Copper in the field windings which melts into at connection points under full load whenever a connection loosens up a little bit. I also got quite a few for repair due to the voltage regulator module failing which is sometimes difficult to obtain for replacement.
I only use mine for camping but when I camp it is a month at a time and I'm off grid the whole month. I also am using the 3500 and not one as big as yours. It is going on 6 years old and has run from sea level to just over 9000 feet. It has sat in both rain and full sun and to date never missed a lick. It is still stock with no mods and only receives scheduled maintenance.
For us I'd go with the Predator and a transfer switch. I just wish you had put this video out last year before I bought my current, underpowered portable generator. For you guys, since you've already bought the Kohler, the Predator will make a nice back-up gennie as well as being one you can take up to that cabin site when you need to work up there.
The predator is also not a 100% duty cycle generator. They are really only rated for about 4 to 6 hours of use and then should be shut down for an hour or two. They don't have much oil in them and that will really accelerate the engine wear if you try to run it 24 hours a day for multiple days. The oil probably needs changed after about 24 to 48 hours of use as well. I stand corrected the oil needs changed every 100 hours on these bigger models. Thats only 4 days of continuous use. Most people will not ever do that.
@@mrmotofy yep according to the specs it is rated for 50% load for 12 hours with gas. Which means 6 hours at 100% load. And the oils needs changed every 100 hours or about 4 days. The smaller units are even less. Most people think that these generators can just be run endlessly and they most certainly cannot.
Have both a small and large Predator "quiet" generator (3500 and 9500W). The small 3500W generator has over 2000hrs on it (that was the last time the hour-meter worked) and has been an "outdoor" generator the entire time. I have changed the oil 3 times - and it was not even dirty! Ive gone through 4 other generators(5-7kW), with more oil changes and maintenance. My 9500 is super reliable and starts with no problem even though it also sits outside. Only have about 80 hrs on it, so it's barely broken in.
I bought a dual fuel generator for the same reason of versatility of fuel. Also mine is stand by with me moving it into place. I have not put gas in and only run test on propane so the carb and gas fuel system won’t glow from non use. I know you can take out you start mod but Harbor Freight may not honor warranty. I would consider getting the extended warranty because some of their equipment fails after 90 days but still in first year. Also your running method will put more stress on predator unit. The other unit is built for these extended run times under heavy load. You don’t want your generator failing while you’re away.
Those Kohler generators usually run forever off grid. Have several with 5-10 thousand hours, no joke. But they can need things like the occasional brushes, bearings, cylinder head repair, etc in that time and mechanics cost real money to do that work. But most of the time it just runs which is attractive for someone who just wants to live. Hydraulic valve adjustment also.
Another excellent video, well researched and tested! Thanks Riley, you always do a great job! You seem to understand electrical things and how to adjust and fix things. I get a kick out of little Oliver, he sure seems to watch everything you guys do!
Something that’s very important to know is how “clean” is the power generated. Inverter type generators are very safe for electronics (like your very expensive Victron). While Kohler is not an inverter type, in does have a quality wound power head like most home backup generators(hardwired). Inexpensive non-inverter type generators usually have a horrible jagged sine wave. I highly recommend getting a “TABLET” oscilloscope + high voltage probe and have a look at it and many other things later on. That model is very easy to use, automatic, forgiving, inexpensive and the average handyman can learn most of its features in an hour or so. Once you check the output of the cheap generator and compare it to the victron, it won’t take an expert to surmise a verdict of YUCK 😮
@@andysontag5336 Not sure how he’ll use it since he’s going to use the Victron “dry contacts” to start it, but yeah the chargeverter will be more likely to take it, but up to a point. Some of those outputs are so bad I refuse to call them a sine wave.
The victrons are specifically designed to work with non inverter generators, and have lots of controls to deal with low quality incoming power. They will be just fine on pretty much anything that can make juice, and will detect and protect themself in situations where the power is so bad it could damage something.
@@mutt2jeff That may be true but you also have to factor if they feed through the inverter to the house as well, not just charging the batteries. Inverter type heat pumps and many appliances will not survive long on a bad sine wave. But they need to have a look at it with an inexpensive O scope to be sure before it’s condemned to chargeverter only.
Excellent video. Riley, since you have the ability and the platform to try things we only dream of, here is a future project. Find/build a small(sized for average energy use, and runs continuously Dec-Jan), low rpm(more durable), DC generator to charge the batteries directly(more efficient), and use the waste heat from the exhaust/cooling system to suplement heat for the house( combined heat and power). Keep doing what you do.
60+ hours on my 9500 Predator generator. Most of those hours were from the 2021 Texas ice storm and several 8+ hour outages during badass TX thunderstorms, too. At the time of purchase, I bought 2 voltage regulators, brushes, a factory carb, large wheel kit, and a CNG carb for spares. Along with a breaker panel interlock, weatherproof 50 amp tap for the house, and the cable, I think I'm $1000 deep into my backup system. Essentially, it's paid for itself close to 5x considering the cost to replace food in the fridge, not to mention saving my pool in freezing cold weather, and burst pipe damage that most of my surrounding neighbors experienced. Even if it died tomorrow, I'm running out to get another one.
Thanks for this week's production, I always enjoy watching. Great comparison of the methods you have chosen to power your life in a remote location. A significant amount of Solar, several Generators using various fuel types have been seen over the years and each have their up and down sides. E-bikes, E-Golf Cart, and now the E-Truck. Life is a learning experience and I continue to learn by watching you and many others with my Solar powered cell phone. Thanks for everything you provide...
You mentioned having an issue with your Kohler generator after just an hour. My mother had a Kohler backup generator installed at her house, and it's set to run for about 20 minutes a week on Saturdays. On the second Saturday it ran for about 5 minutes and shut off. She had my brother take a look at it and it showed low oil, despite having just been installed and filled by the Kohler techs. He started topping up the oil and it just poured out the bottom, so we called them for service and they came out and found a connecting rod hanging out the side of the block. I wonder if they had a supplier issue that caused a lot of failures and that's why there was a backorder for parts. It took about 6 weeks for her parts and another week for the shop to rebuild and test everything to make sure it would last more than an hour the second time they installed it, but since then it hasn't had a hiccup.
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels, It's very entertaining in this format, I wish it had an additional video that went more in depth as a tutorial for people that wanted to actually replicate it, I realize that video wouldn't be as entertaining, but would be helpful for those of us that aren't handy enough to get these things done without step-by-step details
I think I would get two Predators. Hook up one permanent on propane and one portable on gasoline. You could use the portable one in other location if needed.
Go with the cheapest that your batteries will charge on. Aside from reliability, the main differences are likely to be the quality of the power coming out of the generator, which hardly matters as all you want to do is use it to charge your batteries.
Man - it seems you are in my head again Riley. When you put your container vid together I was doing the planning on my own off grid adventure, now you are doing a remote for the generator? Wait - are you standing behind me watching? Thank you for that solve! Beautiful work btw...
You're obviously at high altitude, the predator came with a high altitude carb kit, to change out the jet j the carburetor. Did you do that? Seems like you did not, and that probably is the explanation!
Thanks for being upfront about the ACTUAL cost of the Kohler. Can’t just buy something like that and be done. Lots of stuff to do and lots of extra cost with those types of generators.
I was quoted 15K in Texas this summer and I had to find a propane tank to run it they didn't do that part.... total would have been over 16,500 and that was without maintenance program...
I've been in the generator industry for 15 years now. My first couple years was servicing and repairing those Kohler generators. Good generators for sure but not without issues. For dependability I would go with a diesel generator. The old military gens are great. I was hoping to find a used small Kohler with a John Deere around 30-40kw. I ended up with a older Cummins generator but with Kohler built controller and voltage regulator. It's a 100kw gen powered by a 12v Cummins engine. I basically got it for the cost of the brand new battery that it came with. I had serviced the unit for the last 7 years with my work.
You could buy 3 Predators, modify them all for remote start, hook one up to your solar/battery array permanently, hook one up in a similar fashion to your workshop, and keep one spare for mobility as and when you need it. And you'd still have enough money left over to fuel them for months.
if you heard, the Predator has absolutely no service options. If you need service because you are no mechanic, you get lost. Valve clearances? I would buy an inverter generator wich has a clean energy rate
@@markmitchell457 Keep the valves adjusted (EASY to do). Change the oil, oil filter, and air filter and it shouldn't be a problem... It should last quite a while. I have seen tests and reviews of the predator engines, and they seem pretty well built. Like any other engine, you just need to take care of them.
Back in February of 2021 we all experienced the ice storm that caused major power outages in the southern parts of the USA.My welder/Generator Miller 500D puts out 24KW of power was used for powering our whole house for 248hrs or 10+ days! The welder never stop once we hooked it up by turning off main 200amp breaker and turning on 50amp breaker back feeding the main breaker panel with everything online like we never lost power. We wash clothes like normal, heated our home, no lost of frozen food or anything. The diesel fuel that was use for every 1hr of constant power during the whole time period was a half a gallon of diesel fuel! It has a 25 gallon tank to run about 48hrs before filling up which we did by fuel cans that we filled up by our 500gal diesel storage tank.! A diesel power generator is the way to go with powering a home during a power outage if in a rural area!the advantage of farm diesel is a cheap fuel to power your home for long power outages like we all experienced and with hurricane season on it's peak and other storms and outages it better to be prepared even if it is a small generator is better then nothing. Fossil fuels are not ready to be phased out or taken away do to going green has proved not ready for prime time during multiple events after the ice storm we all face. Stay cool during summer seasons and Stay warm during winter season and stay safe when using generators and help your neighbors, friends, and family as they will help you! 0:06
i just bought the 13000.10000 predator and so far love it. and a friend bought one and had it 5 months and out of the blue it just quit charging we loaded it back up took it back and they didn't have one but they looked and found one 30 miles away and ask if they wanted it brought there or if we wanted to go get it. ZERO trouble replacing it. the only trouble we had was they didn't have one there. and i just sold my 15 year old 8750/7500 predator and never had any trouble with it.
I might be able to help if you have a more specific question(s), but if you get in too deep a comment sections isn't the place to start learning about ladder logic (relay) control design. The type he has is din rail mounted, used with a wide variety of options for industrial controls, which tend to be expensive (what's $200 to a manufacturing plant?). The more affordable types are usually socked mounted, fitting into the same or similar socket as ice cube relays. You can get UL listed to meet US code, or can buy an unrated equivalent Chinese model which works the same but has no UL or other code approval. There's lots of operation options, below is a common generic description for the 2 most common types. For most applications, a "delay on" relay is sufficient. There is usually a dial or switches on the top to set the time delay. When the coil is activated (power to the relay input), there is a time delay before a normally open contact closes, whereas with a typical relay the contact closes instantly. When the coil is deactivated, the contact opens instantly like a typical relay. The other common type is "delay off" which are more expensive and consume more power. When the coil is activated, the contact closes like with a typical relay. When the coil is deactivated, the contact remains closed until the timer expires, then the contact opens. This requires an additional power connection to hold the contact closed until the timer expires. He probably could have used a typical DPDT (double pole double throw) relay across the switch instead of hacking his remote. On the generator I plan to use, there are other connections on the switch, but thy are just used for light indicators. He probably could have used 2 delay on and 1 normal relay which could have saved him a decent amount of money. From these, you can build some complicated controls. For example, in my planned setup: 1. Monitor PUCo (public utilities power) to activate when the power goes out. 2. Delay before trying to start because I don't want to start for a few second power outage. 3. Simulate depressing the switch twice (how mine starts). The generator will try to start on its own 3 times. 4a. If there is power at the generator output for a period of time, it is considered running, go to step 10. 4b. If there is no power after a timeout, repeat 3 again. 5. Repeat step 4b 5 times or so, after which quit trying to start. If it doesn't start in 15 tries, it isn't likely to start, to continue trying would just run down the battery and wear out the starter motor. 6. After starting, wait a period of time for the motor to warm up. 7. After motor warms up, activate a larger 50+amp contacts relay to send power from the generator to the automatic transfer switch, and begin running of the generator. 8. When PUCo comes back on, if not running, quit trying to start. 9. If the generator is running, wait a timeout to ensure the PUCo power didn't return for just a couple of seconds. 10. The automatic transfer switch will not be pulling power from the generator now because it would have switched back to PUCo power at step 8. Continue to allow the generator to run for a timeout period to cool down. 11. Simulate depressing the switch once (how my model is turned off). 12. Monitor the generator output power, if the generator fails to stop after a timeout, repeat 12 indefinitely until the generator stops. I will be pulling gasoline from larger transfer tanks. If I can't use gravity feed by code, will need to add a small fuel pump to start before depressing the switch in step 4, stop when I call for the generator to stop in step 12. This requires: 6 delay on relays 3 normal relay 1 normal 50+ amp contact relay (to turn generator power on and off to transfer switch). trickle charger for generator battery 4 pin wire harness so I can disconnect from the generator (relay to simulate pushing the button mounted on the generator, tapping into the generator battery for part of the control circuit). Relays are 12Vdc and 120Vac. Automatic transfer switch fed by generator and PUCo distribution panel. PUCo distribution panel. Generator distribution panel fed by automatic transfer switch. Power is from 4 sources: generator battery for controls, backup generator distribution panel (after automatic transfer switch), directly from the generator output, and PUCo (signal to tell if PUCo power is on or off). In a few places I will have 2 power sources entering the same control cabinet, I haven't looked up the best way to handle by code (I think sign on panel door and segregation in a 1 or 2 gang box will work). I might need to add a 2nd generator battery in parallel if the relays drain the battery too quickly, which would also need some type of mounting bracket. The above doesn't include some status indicators: battery level indicator with low battery alarm (can buy pre-made units) fuel level indicator with low fuel alarm (I'm converting level to 4-20mA signal and using pre-made units) generator running (relay on gen output before generator distribution panel) generator fail to stop (relay on gen output before generator distribution panel)
It's like you read my mind. I have a Westinghouse dual fuel generator that I use with my Sol-ark 12k setup, I have been trying to figure out how to easily 2 wire start it for months. Thank you for the solution!
That Kohler generator basically looks like the same thing used in RVs, just put in a housing for the emergency use at your house. From the trouble that I have seen with them from many RV users, I wouldn’t touch one with a 10 foot pole. I would rather have the predator generator and purchase the extended warranty on it. Like they say if it quits working, just take it back and drop it off and they will give you another one. That would be much faster than waiting on them, trying to fix the Koehler generator, which the RV people have trouble with them being fixed or staying fixed for more than a week or two. Khroler has become a product that is selling on an age, old name of quality which does not exist anymore.
Hey Hey Riley, I have ordered parts from HF four times. Delivery was quick and a small shpg charge. One of the items was an 1 hp electric motor for my metal cutting band saw (it was not HF but the motors were matches). The first motor would not kick in. I called and they sent me another motor no questions-oh and keep the first motor. I've found them to be pretty easy to deal with. My HF is only six miles away.... Since they eliminated Chicago Electric their electric products have improved a bunch. I've some friends that love their Predator engines-they claim those match the Hondas they had before. I don't know any of my friends that have had their Predators longer than two years. I also have a 12,500 w pto generator that I can run off of my B3200 Kubota (32hp 4cyl diesel). I've only had one thorough test. I ran it for 66 hrs straight at 2400 rpm. I was filling it every 16hrs. It holds 6.5gal. The voltage would drop about 10v for all of 3-4 seconds when the AC compressor (2t) switched on.
Great stuff, I’d lean into the Kohler vs the Harbor freight 1/6 the cost unit. The maintenance, the valve adjustment requirement, is an indicator of the total design. Keep it up guys!
I think a lot of your viewers would rather see you undertaking a construction project. Infomercials can be interesting but only so many before people lose interest
For years I've been using a Miller Trailblazer (welder/generator) for backup. It's a very manual system, so whenever the power goes out, I get a bit jealous of our neighbor's automatic backup system. But as I only need it about once every two years, I don't yet feel the need to automate. I use it as a welder many times a year.
Thanks for the test.. If nothing else, it shows me that power specs are NOT what they state (sort of like power amplifiers were in the '70's). I had thought that a 13KW genniie SHOULD be enough.. but your tested load was closer to HALF that?! And I didn't even think about longevity of the gennie itself.. I think the cost of the Kohler, Generac, GE, and Westinghouse is too stratospheric for my broke budget. Some people are paying up to $12K for a backup power solution.. it just makes no sense. I have been surprised you have spent so many episodes on power related issues.. when it looks to me like you realistically solved that a year ago.. I guess I don't understand the concern.. really.. Run your apartment off the Lightning?? Actually, the Mr Cool thang was far more interesting.. given the severity of your climate. I guess HVAC really has improved immensely. Can't wait to see the episode where you put in a better garage door, make a new cabin up on the hill, and where you get through the struggle of getting that D8 out of the mud (I know, NOT a high priority). Thanks as always for the prompt posting!!! 😀
WELL DONE. I've used the same propane Kohler setup for over eight years with all the ups and downs, but it's been a considerable cost since I'm not as mechanically inclined. The one concern is whether the HF unit will work for auto start, but the unit is a viable replacement at a fraction of the cost. Since the unit is near the house, my only concern would be a soundproof storage unit.
Just found your channel and it’s well done, thanks. Also you guys are so lucky!! What a beautiful baby you have!! My son is 32 and I miss my baby, he was so cute. LoL cherish this time with him. Stay safe
Another option you can do for your switch instead of all of those relays is purchase a BroadLink RF mini or similar. It will record the signal sent by the remote and re-broadcast it. You can use something like if this than that to detect when your batteries at a certain point and trigger the BroadLink to start your generator 21:38
Regarding weather resistance of the Predator, I run an open frame 4550 Predator on my semi truck. I don't cover it and run through all kinds of weather and salt. The only thing I've had trouble with is the CO monitor-it doesn't like getting wet. Everything else seems to be pretty bulletproof. It's been on my truck for over a year.
Sorry to say you are becoming a commercial I would like more of what you used to do personal hard work at building things you sound and are acting as an infomercial
Riley, (BTW, love that name, My oldest grand-daughter is also named Riley, Yes, for those who don't know, it is a unisex name) I know you used to be in the custom "stuff" business. If you made a DIY video to hook all that up, you could pre-make the parts and sell them, that is until a big company bought you out! As far as the tests, I'd have to go with the Predator myself. For cost and multi usability concept. The remote start for me would be "good enough" With like say your ability to monitor your battery levels remotely already. But, the way you understood, and set all that up, it is both amazing and genius! Great video as always sir, Thanks
im an electrician, the residential company i used to work for ONLY installed Kohler generators and Asco transfer switches, the biggest being a 60Kw. weve replaced other brands with kohler just because clients had so much trouble. im in union commercial electrical now so the gensets are caterpillar and transfer switches are still asco
I worked at HFT while in college. We had contractors that would buy our tools with the extended warranty. One dude would use the crap out of the wet saw for tile work and after it failed he'd come in, swap it out and pay the small fee for another warranty, rinse and repeat lol. It works great for some people.
Thanks to MRCOOL for sponsoring this video! Central Ducted HyperHeat DIY: mrcool.com/central-ducted/
you could of used sensibo instead of using a different thermostat. Obviously doesnt make a difference now but in the future it is pretty neat tech.
the mr cool ducted system looks very cool.
Preditor low output: Could be the fuel you used. Did you use a high octane fuel, or regular gas? Also might have issues using gasoline with Ethanol. Preditor recommends a premium, high octane fuel. Another consideration is your altitude, as all engines lose power when above sea level.
Why did you choose the hyperHeat over the Universal unit? Also are you concerned that the air handler and ducting is located in the unconditioned space?
Been watching y'all's videos for some time, your wife is a rare catch she can do things lots of men can't! Like the excited nature of this video.
As a traveling horse rider I use and have been around lots of different generators. For a large run everything with a generator I prefer the WinCo (only American made on the market) very dependable. My horse trailer with full living quarters has central heat and air also has a separate gas heater . I have a solar system that normally powers everything but air conditioner 13,500 BTU I run a predator 3500 inverter generator. It handles it is great is super quiet and very fuel efficient. I currently have one unit that has over 4500 hours on it and only had one issue. At around 3,800 hours the ignition module died but was easily replaced. Around 90 percent of the people traveling the areas that I do are also running the Predators. Dollar for dollar they are extremely hard to beat and have proven to be very reliable . I do have a couple of Onan RV gensets they are good but don't seem to hold up against the Predator even though Onan is a division of Cummins!
As you stated the Predator can be used in other applications and I think you will be very well pleased with that investment!
One thing to keep in mind when comparing against stated output is altitude, so derate by 3% for every 1000 ft above sea level. These are combustion engines, and around where I live generators can only generate about 85% of their nameplated capacity. Same goes for cars and anything else with a combustion engine. Great video by the way, and thanks for posting!
Good point. Pretty sure the Kohler has an altitude switch at least the ones I have seen do. Doubt the Predator does and the California compliant carburetor would prevent adjustment of the needles.
Thanks for that information.
Quite likely the debacle about the 8000 W had something to do with elevation.
Keep in mind that Some cars have turbochargers or even superchargers
Next video. Turbo charging a Predator generator.
Yup. It’s stated as 4% per 1000ft in the kohler manual. The predators are just wildly overrated. They are using a 10hp single which in my experience will never make 10000 watts. All the commercial 10k gensets I work on use at least a twin.
If you buy products with your own money then give an honest review of them, it’s more like Consumer Reports provided online for free. Nice job Riley!
It's called filler content
Yep. Just ditch that stupid gubbamint gas can.
Your ladder setup at 16:40 gave me flashbacks! I'm a now retired career firefighter and had a ladder accident. I was up at the 2nd floor and the ladder slipped on the asphalt driveway. I ride the ladder down and my left knee went between the rings and hit the asphalt first. It shattered my patella into 7 or 8 pieces . I had multiple operations and was out of work for an entire year. BE CAREFUL!
Thank you for your service sir.
@@catgynt9148 best job I ever had. You'd go home at the end of shift knowing you helped somebody. Whether it be a house fire, car accident, medical call, or just helping a homeowner pump out their basement after a flood or broken pipe.
Same thing and broke my heel into 3 pieces! I hate ladders!
@@criticalevent a lot was my own fault for breaking the rule of always having someone "footing" the ladder preventing it from kicking out like that. Still kick myself for being too impatient to get someone to foot the ladder.
That had to have been unbelievably painful 😢
Completely agree with @brianbeuning9279's comment regarding THD below. If you are running lights and sump pumps dirty power shouldn't cause any issues. But, with today's modern appliances, HVAC, TV's, Computers, Cell Phones, etc. dirty power is a show stopper. A very large percentage of the non-inverter Harbor Freight type generators (DuroMax, Champion, Generac to name a few) all have between 12 and 23% THD. Some of the larger Westinghouse open frame generators (WGEN 11500 TFC) have THD below 6% which is considered clean power. Inverter generators provide pure sine wave power, so less than 2% THD, but they are exensive! This is actually cleaner than power from your power company in most cases, they provide 5% or less THD. So, when shopping for a portable home backup generator, the first items on your check list should be continuous wattage output and THD. Your pocket book and sensitive electronics will thank you 🙂 Great video by the way!!!!!
Keep in mind too, in the creator's use case, the inverter and battery setup they have is "sanitizing" the power too. IE, you might have a higher THD on the predator generator, but it's only being consumed by the Victron's. Then the Victron's are powering the house, and their THD should be much lower.
I am in Thailand. Modern Electronic converts the AC to DC, cleans it and converts it to whatever it really needs in a regulated way. They can take amazing dirty electric without any problems. Exception LED lights.
I don't know about that being for sure, I run a 4000 watt old Coleman Powermate that varies from 133V to 103V, depending on load, with Hz in a similarly *bad* range, and have powered my home during outages with it, (and some judicious power-management, e.g. only starting the well at higher voltages, turning other heavy loads off) for decades!! (I just came off of a 72 hour + outage) -The only losses that *might* be attributable to the dirty power is the power supply to my computer twice in 25 years... (and that is only a possibility, they weren't while under gen-set power..)
We built our house before utility power was installed using a 10,000 Chinese generator. Paid $999 for it on sale and budgeted for it to last thru the build and be garbage. 16 years later I still use it in an emerg to power the whole house (excluding 3 ton ac unit) including 2 fridges, deep freeze, furnace, computers, sump pump, 3/4 hp well pump, lights, televisions etc. Dirty power? Likely not “dirty”, but surely slightly soiled. Normally silent Hunter ceiling fans slightly hum but never had an electronic device misbehave, never destroyed anything connected. Maybe we’ve been lucky. Maybe due to an inductive load always being part of the equation smoothing out power? Who knows.
THD = Total Harmonic Distortion (clean power rating)
Kohler is rated for THD < 5%
Predator 13000 has THD < 23%
Appliances are required to support THD < 5%
With the Kohler, it can feed power direct to home and home appliances will be happy.
With Predator and direct feed, some appliances (like curling iron) may not work.
If you can set Victron's so generator charges batteries and inverters power home, then it will be good.
Battery chargers don't mind noisy power.
Thanks for interesting video.
Is this also the answer to why certain loads would trip the protections in the F-150 Lightning because it hated 2 appliances in the house.
I was actually surprised the Lightning took power from the generator without tripping a protection.
"curling iron" : I highly doubt that there would be a problem with a curling iron on a high THD generator. They are basically just a resistive heating element with no microprocessor control. Appliances with microprocessor controls, such as a Fridge, Washing Machine, heating system, etc, will be the ones that have issues with 'dirty' power.
If it's just setup to charge the solar batteries, it won't have any effect on household appliances.
The generator charges his batteries so for him it doesn't matter if it drops because its not directly connected.
Wonderful comparison, I am impressed, HOWEVER, being a US Navy Nuclear Submarine Veteran electronics tech, I would have kept the Diesel Generator and put a remote start module on it. So much more robust and longevity would be at hand. In addition you guys are heavy users of diesel fuel which you keep on hand. 73's KV4WM, Dennis
Hey shipmate, I too am an ET (nuc) sub veteran and I sold them the old MEP 804. I rewired it from 3 phase to two so it produced full 15kw at 240 volts. The big thing I noticed was the fuel usage as well as longevity. My MEP 802 used .5 gal/hr while his uses 2 gal/hr and my mep actually puts out 6.5 kw continuous for approx 20k hours overhaul cycle. I would have kept the old reliable also. ETCM(SS) Ret John
Than you for your service sir! While I agree with the idea of using the Diesel and I know Riley is fully capable of making it work, I think its worth pointing out for those that don’t realize, automating the Diesel would be much more complex and expensive project because it isn’t self regulating. So in addition to run and start you also have to worry about closing the breaker, voltage and engine RPM control. Again I’m sure you know that and Riley is capable, it’s just more time and $$.
That old 804 certainly couldn't be automated, but the newer 802/3/4/5 are capable of automation and a you tuber made an app and hardware to do so, check it out. Snook, Florida. Nevada, Ohio, Michigan. KG7VBM
Any info on a remote start for a diesel gen?
I would use a military deisel welder and a 48v battery pack so I just set charging amperage and have no loss in conversion
First: Riley, you are amazing! I have met other geniuses in my >70 years on earth, but you are one of the best communicators among them. Your insatiable curiosity is contagious.
Secondly, I would add one more test to them both: how RF "clean" are they. I would ask one of my ham radio buddies to measure the sine wave, spurious RF and then run them through a "whole house" surge protector & a UPS as a buffer for computer / "smart" stuff.
Thank you, all 5, for lifting my spirits! (Rain in LA Mesa, CA, now.) Blessings. 🙏🤲🙌📖😀
Wow! That is an amazing compliment. Thanks! And thanks for supporting me in getting to do the things that I love to do!
I actually bough an oscilloscope to check the sin waves, but of course it didn't arrive in a timely manner. I suspect the Kohler would be a lot "cleaner".
I have to agree with Donald!
I have multiple vids on of how to very cheaply view sine wave on generators etc
How do sine waves affect these generators?
@@luisarevalo8394 Alternating Current (AC) uses a sine wave alternating at 60 cycles per second in the USA. Many lower cost "generators" produce Direct Current (DC) then change it into AC for use with household appliances. The quality of the AC sine wave varies greatly. This becomes important with sensitive devices like computers and radio transceivers. They can introduce a lot of radio frequency noise which can interfere with radio reception and transmission (like shortwave, amateur radio, etc.). There are many articles on the Internet to explain better than I can. All the best.
That remote start modification is what I am here for! Very cool Mr. Cool!
I'm wondering if the remote start modification affected the $399 service plan / 2 year guarantee.. or did Riley just decided to scrap it and trust the build quality of the cheaper generator (I recall one of their generators with 30 days guarantee broke after 31 days)
The current version has a remote start key fob.
Riley/Courtney - thanks for the video - good observations! My wife Karen and I are living a similar off-grid life here in Michigan with solar, generators, etc. We have two portable Predator 3500s, one portable Generac 5K, one Champion 10K, and recently added a Kohler 20K. My first year of use on the Champion as our primary generator put 400 hours on the machine. About that time, the generator's governor stopped being reliable and I had problems maintaining stable Hertz under load. Since it was under warranty, Champion worked on it and its working pretty well again (but I'm not sure I trust it in the dead of winter). The other factor that caused me to upgrade to the Kohler was the capacity. The Champion exhibits the same problems you noticed with your Predator which was an inability to deliver its full rated output. Using propane, my Champion declares a rating of 7200 continuous but I never was able to get more than 4.5K without RPMs dragging under load (causing hz to drop, causing the inverter/charger to disconnect). Also, household appliances (microwave, stove, toaster) were not fond of the 'dirty' power from the Champion. With the new Kohler I can run full household loads and charge the battery bank at my inverter's max (48vdc/110amps). (I'm running at Schneider 6848 XWPro Hybrid Inverter). I paid $5200 for all my Kohler package from a local dealer and self-installed. My vote is for your Kohler over your Predator in the long haul -- but I do understand your appreciation for the dual fuel option, the portability, and the lower cost. It's very cool you set your Predator up for Autostart capability from your Victron gear! Nice. -Cheers from Paul and Karen Green (youtube.com/@BuildingAtTheWoods)
One more thing... we tried using an EG4 Chargeverter as a way to feed power from the
'dirty' Champion generator into our DC bus to charge our batteries. We found that to be a good way to clean up the power as the EG4 Chargeverter accepts 240 or 120vac power sources and tolerates 'dirty' power. Have the Chargeverter lets us use any of our generators to feed the batteries, even our small Predators. (You can't have too many backup options when you're depending on yourself to generate all your power needs).
Great evaluation! I spent about 35 years in the generator industry. In the end, what's best really depends on what you need it for. If I were going off grid, I'd probably buy a couple identical small diesel surplus gensets. There are several reasons why. While the up-front equipment cost is an important factor initially, the cost of making your own power over time should be a big consideration. A small 1800RPM diesel will beat any gasoline or Lp genset that runs at 3600 rpm, as the ones you tested do. The diesel wins on fuel consumption and durability and over a five- or ten-year period that will be significant. If you got 2000 hours out of either of those two gensets tested I'd be shocked. You can get 10,000 to 13,000 hours out of a diesel with a little Kubota on it. While the LP engines do very well wear wise, the 3600 rpm is what kills them. And, the general design is just not as robust as the diesel surplus gensets. Duty cycle is also very important. As you saw, what they claim and what they can actually do is two different things. If I had either of those gensets, I wouldn't base load them any more than 50% of the nameplate rating or they will come apart. If I were looking for a small diesel, my engine choices would be Kubota 1st, Yanmar second and Lister 3rd. I'd probably steer clear of any others. But, I guess if you don't mind the aggravation associated with correcting failures, you could buy 6 predators and deal with the failures as they happen and keep the good parts to repair the rest till they are all done. One other problem with all these Chinese built products is they constantly change things, so unless you bought 6 at the same time ( say, in the same year), they likely won't be identical. In the end, math will dictate the best value based on life cycle cost and fuel efficiency.
Well said!!
@mikeconroy2651 ... I agree, RPM's are a real killer and the only thing I would suggest is to go "Water-Cooled" Diesel based on my experience. I'm an Ex-Pat living in the Philippines and we have semi-regular so called brown-outs. They vary from 1 minute to several hours... and when we had the Cat 5 Typhoon it was 3 weeks before power was even starting to be restored. It was ugly, and it took 2 months to get reliable power service back. Our homemade 10kw water-cooled diesel got us through running about 15 hours straight per day. Then we used a 1000 watt Honda quiet type gas generator at night for lights and fans at night. We charged lights and cell phones for the locals charging a few peso's that helped to offset the fuel cost which was about 1 liter or so of diesel per hour. A country boy will survive.
@@Kevinrichardsonministries19:39
@@Kevinrichardsonministries I'd take an air cooled over a water cooled, if my location allowed it. Just so much less to fail. But I doubt the P.I. is conducive to air cooled, being such a hot ambient. I've seen air cooled used in some very cold applications.
@@mikeconroy2651 ... That's a valid point Mike, as agreed... if there's a freezing risk in the location the unit is being used... one would definitely have to keep an eye on possible damage from same on a water-cooled unit. Either way... I would think keeping the RPM's at a minimum to reduce wear and tear over time would be important on either type of unit. Good Feedback Brother...
I have a Onan P4500i that I have been running for a couple years now. It has just crosses 10,000 hours. It is a small beast and has given me no issues. Very happy.
That's a LOT of hours! Cool!
@@AmbitionStrikesThe champion whole house generators come with a 10 year , 10,000 hour warranty.
Yeah the real important measurement is how many hours the generator will last.
What fuel are you running on it?
I have a Cat 11kw 3 cylinder diesel cost $16000(nz about $10,000US) oil pump shaft snapped at 930 hrs
I bought the first 13,000 watt Predator generator from my local harbor freight store. I have about 900 hours on it. Zero problems. I love mine. I run mine easily on a 40# bottle which is stated as the minimum in the generator manual.
right, because the usage is too high and a smaller tank will ice up and lose pressure fast, resulting in not enough gas to run it anymore. also in very cold weather you'll want a far larger tank to combat the icing up conditions and maintain enough gas output. in reality you'd want #250lbs or greater tank(rated in gallons by then)
so with whatever your average load is, how long will the predator run on a 40# bottle.
@ about 18-20 hrs running 2 15k a/c units in 100+ degree outside temperatures.
Before I even watch, I'll put it this way. after Hurricane Sandy I helped a half dozen people buy and connect the Predator 9500 units to their houses. WAY cheaper than CNG powered whole house units with a K on them, that BROKE constantly. People can still hate on HF all they want, but a lot of their stuff is pretty damn good.
That's great to hear!
These "chonda" generators are pretty good, I use mine for backup purposes and generally treat it like shit, it sits behind my house and maybe gets run every couple of years. It's seven years old and starts every time I've needed it and the only maintenance I've done is regular oil changes, we went 4 days with no power this summer and it didn't skip a beat. As a backup generator it's great, we don't lose power often and when we do the 10kw(which is really like 6500 watts runs almost everything in our house outside the AC, for that I have a few window units which can cool bedrooms). Value prop for a $10,000 standby generator vs a $600 harbor freight predator and a couple hundred for an interlock, breaker, wire, and a 50amp outlet, in my mind the less than $1k vs. over $10k is a no brainer.
The coffee shop trailer by me has been using a predator inverter generator 6 days a week for 3 years without issue. For the cost they are really hard to beat. Of course I have heard stories where they were DOA too. Lol
I am amazed at the knowledge you possess. I enjoy your families humor and the devotion you and your family possess. The content of your videos are very interesting and I hope you Courtney Oliver and dogs continue to give us the joy of your video’s
We have a world of info available...he doesn't just pull it out of his head without researchi and learning
As a broadcast engineer, I inherited a portable backup generator at a remote mountain top transmitter site that had been modified exactly like this. It received the start command from the automatic transfer switch. It worked every time I tested it on site with a simulated failure (pulled the breaker). But inevitably, every time we had an actual power failure, it wouldn't start. We scrapped it and bought a Kohler!
Happy Birthday Oliver and Happy Easter to all!
In my area of Canada we get occasional blizzards that bury us in snow and knock trees down over power lines. The Christmas blizzard of 2022 knocked power out for several days while dumping 5 feet of snow in -20 windchill temperatures. People without power were desperate without heat and water pipes freezing in their homes. Most of the whole home Generacs in my area failed due to the wind driven blizzard snow clogging up and freezing the Generac intakes. My portable tri fuel generator saved the day. I set up a garden shed to shelter the generator, by running the exhaust pipe out through the wall, and installing an exhaust fan next to the generator. Hooked it up to the Natural Gas from my home, and we ran worry free for days. Furnace, fridges, lights, etc all running just fine. It all cost me a fraction of the price for a whole home Generac system.
We bought a Cummins to replace our Kohler. Love it. Works and works and works!
I use a Predator generator (6500) for my off grid home. I do not have batteries or solar. We have used generators for the past 7 years. In winter I only run it 8-12 hours a day. In Summer it runs 14-16 hours a day. It IS difficult finding someone to work on it. There is another channel, James Condon, that gives great information on repairs, including torque specs and ohm readings. Good luck!!
Keep watching James videos and you’ll learn enough to keep it serviced and fixed 😊😊😊😊
Might add a stake in the ground and chain the Predator to keep vibrations from dropping it off that hill. I've never had to run one for house backup though, only worksite applications. Great video! I really like the expensive vs cheap/diy solutions for similar things.
Another great video! It sounds like you’re speaking another language when you’re stating all the technical terms and I have no idea what it all means, but it never the less is very impressive to see your brilliance at work!!
Happy Birthday, Oliver!!
I would think I would put my time and money into automating the military generator 1st. Its my opinion that the military / army genset would be the most dependable, best documented, the cleanest (sine wave), and the easiest to find parts. It may not be the most efficient, or portable but I think I would trust the US military surplus over Harbour Frieght any day of the week in your remote location. As for fuel, you got diesel on site.
That's a good point. Do you happen to know how diesel autostarts are managed in cold weather? Is the block heated all the time, or is ether used, or something else?
@@alskjflaksjdflakjdf Lots of good questions, but my experience with them was when I was much younger, and told to look, but dont touch!! I believe they have a MEP 804 (15KW) diesel..... Other models include MEP 802 @ 5KW, 803 @10 KW, 805 @ 20KW and I think 806 and 807 at 30 and 60kw??? (dont hold me to it) There are guys that are here on you tube that rebuild, resale, and convert them. ...... Try a search on "MEP 804" at see what pops up! Good Luck
From the videos I've seen, It seems they need to manually adjust the rpm of the generator to get 60Hz. Still, I'm sure it's possible to make a system that does that automatically.
@@henrikaleksandernilsen6388It depend on the model of MEP. The old ones were mechanically controlled. We just left them at 60.5 - 61.0 hertz unloaded, and adjusted as we needed to. Then came electronic governors, that did most all of that for us.
Something to consider is a Whisper Watt, I have been on quite a few jobsites with them. They are trailer mounted, run on diesel fuel, and you can stand beside them and carry on a conversation.
Lol. I googled it and a new one is ONLY $62,000.
I don’t think most homeowners would consider that a viable option
@Icoach4free I have worked with them, I have worked around them, I have not bought one yet. I think you could pick up a good used one for a lot less.
cool video. my wife and I moved to southern Georgia a year and a half ago. Last summer we had hurricane Idalia run right over us. we moved here from New Jersey. Back in Jersey i bought a predator 8750 generator a few years ago, we used it for various things back in Jersey. When the hurricane hit us in Georgia we lost power for 3 days. That generator was worth its weight in gold! When we got power back all i did was treat the generator to an oil change and a new plug. It still runs like a champ. I'm a big fan of the predator line!
Been working in small engines a long time. I work on a lot of Kohlers with 5000 hours plus, never seen a Chinese generator come close to those hours.
Agreed, but a lot of that is just that we don't buy Chinese products because we like them for any reason other than price. SO they always get us the cheapest which is why they are not great. China DOES make good stuff too, just not when they are made to be cheap. I have a Honda, for 10 years, and it ALWAYS starts. I'm off grid, use it often when rain for a few days or am working in the shop on rainy days. Starts ALWAYS.
i live in california, and hondas are being replaced by predators everywere....
You sure? All gas generator are banned in CA you have to go across State line to buy it.
@@aplaceholderbplaceholder9524 that’s not accurate. Honda pulled out of the market over the last 2 years. But gas generators are not banned until 2028. You can still buy them inside the state.
I’ll never reach 5000 hours with a predator 212 but for 1/4 the price of a gx 196 I’m fine with that. Plenty of people have reached into 2000 hrs with predators. I think for the price they are fantastic engines. If I had a commercial fleet of equipment I would run Honda no questions asked but if I need a motor that doesn’t break the bank harbor freight all day.
I did my own cost analysis between a smaller inverter style HF generator gasoline and the Generac automatic standby natural gas generator. Basically between maintenance contract costs (which are usually required [although you could fight with them and likely win if you did the maint yourself] to keep your 10 year warranty), the higher initial costs and the fact that after 10 years you really can't get warranty on the Generac you could actually buy a NEW HF every year for 7 to 8 years and come out ahead - add in an extended warranty and (I'd never suggest doing this) you could "upgrade" every 23 months for "free". The lack of an automatic transfer switch and not having a natural gas option (until recently) kept me seriously considering an automatic standby generator even with all of the downsides - for me the tri-fuel option and ability to "remote" start brings me a lot closer to having the best of all worlds.
If you have a Kohler and it is installed in the open air in a snow belt area you MUST keep the side air vent open and free of snow for proper cooling. These engines are air cooled. If during what we call a nor'easter here in Ct and your power goes out you BETTER get out there and keep the vents open or it MAY over heat.
I picked up the Predator 9500 inverter generator for a home backup a little over a year ago and it has served us pretty well. I like the inverter style because it’s quieter and the power is cleaner. It would be awesome to set it up with a remote control setup like this. My only challenge is my breaker panel isn’t well balanced so my legs pull a very different amount of current when on generator mode, something to fix this summer.
I have an older school predator 9000, gasoline only. I use it for power outage that occurs at least once a year if not two or more. I bought it when we lost power during a bad storm when power was out for about a week. Paid off big. That unit ran all my appliances, central air or window units. I never empirically load tested by measuring frequency, but did monitor voltage under load. It was adequate, and fit for use. I'm prepping my site for solar with tracking, I will definitely back it up with this 13,000 watt unit with a propane back up. Outstanding presentation, and building an adhoc system of relays for remote start, very impressive.
So fun to see Riley so excited when things work!
Thank you for doing these tests scientifically and objectively!
Man it’s really fun to watch you be excited about these things that you clearly love figuring out and using your brain. What a blessing for y’all to get to do this stuff, and so awesome that you share it with all of us.
That’s Funny I am on grid here in the Mountains of Montana. I own 4 Generators & 10,000 watts of Solar. I just purchased a Kohler 20 KW to be connected by the end of April. I’ve established it’s own separate 330 gal. Propane tank. So now 3 Propane tanks on the property.
Sounds like you are well set for anything!!!
Does your Kohler have a turbo to compensate for the 4% loss per 1000ft of altitude.....plus the 10% loss for LP on top of that?
Mind you
14%, (1000ft)
18%, (2000ft)
22% , (3000ft)
26% (4000ft)
30% (5000ft)
loss from rated output at sea level (20kw) (continuous or peak starting?)
still leaves plenty......????
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq That would be an honest 20 kW continuous at sea level, less of course as you mentioned when de rated. No turbo on a two cylinder gas burner. You have max output on LP. De-rate for natural gas approximately 10%.
We've had a backup generator for 18 years (5000w continuous). 30 amps x 220v hooked directly into the meter. We lose power 3 or 4 times a year, up to 8 hours at a time (the longest has been 22 hours). It sits outside under just a canvas cover (though now under an awning). It runs for 30 min every month, has a pull start, and has no frills.
In 18 years I have replaced the fuel valve ×2, had a general service once, a new muffler, and just routine maintenance. It has never failed to start, and it never stopped unexpectedly. 18 years ago, it cost $500. I've used it at fairs to power popcorn machines and fryers - no issues.
I can't power everything in the house at the same time, but I can make hot water (at night with almost all the power off) and use the stove top - but no a/c or central heat (have a fireplace for that).
$500 initial cost, $500 for the things mentioned above - it is a great option for grid tied backup power!
That's an excellent return - what make/brand and model is it? If they still make it, and have held to the quality standards, it may be of interest to some.
It's a Briggs & Stratton Elite Series 5500 (8500 starting). Ours was not made in China (that started after 2007), but I don't know about the new ones
Saw a similar 5500 elite, but only 6500 w startup. Runs about $900. Depending on the needs, I might go for the 11,000 w models. More fuel consumption, more output.
I have often wondered about the big Honda generators with the heavy insulation and mufflers on them. I have seen them at fairs and car boot sales, and they seem to run 12-14 hours a day, up to three days a week, I suppose that they are diesel running on red. I wonder how long they last? They are audible but not in a bad way.
OK. Gensets SHALL NOT be wired to a permanent source of power without a properly installed transfer switch.
Source: National Electrical Code.
@crankychris2 our electric provider installed a device between the meter and the main electrical panel. We know when the power is restored when we hear the generator return to idle. Cost about $300 - installed.
I have said this before and will say it again. For your application, you really need to invest in a Direct Current (DC) Generator. Your AC based are simple, alternators and in the case of your suitcase sized inverter based. You lose power in the conversion by rectifying through your Inverter Rectifiers. You could be charging your batteries directly straight from a DC generator. Polar Power Marine is an example but not the only. These are often used in marine environments and off-grid telecommunications sites.
I was thinking the same thing, this seems like a great setup for a DC generator at the battery voltage. However I can also see why an AC genset has its advantages. If something happens with the inverters he can wire the house panels directly to the generator.
Predator would be nice for the equipment shed/shop. Good for solar backup and still portable for other jobs.
Great comparison video.
I lived completely off grid for 15 years.
I had a kohler backup generator for many years and it was flawless.
I bought it after I had so many problems with the Ge....c.
I like the idea of what you are trying to prove but most people cant do the conversions you did AND the Kohler is designed to be outdoors.
Remember you get what you pay for.
When using an ICE your pressure altitude will play a roll in the engine output and therefore your electrical output in a generator.
Very true! We are at 2,000’.
Theoretically 8% loss from altitude.
.and 10% on top of that for switching to LP....@@AmbitionStrikes
Bought a generator for my house on the Island of Cebu.
36,500 watts, 4 cylinder water cooled Isuzu diesel.
Max load running everything in and around the house, including the pool pumps is 25,000 watts.
Overkill is good..... an engine having only 65% of its' power utilized uses about 60% of its rated fuel consumption.
...Something to keep in mind.
Hey Riley, i went with the Predator 9K back up for my home. Your remote start adds a whole different level.
YOU GUYS ROCK!❤❤❤
One of the problems I used to encounter as a Repairman with the Cheaper Chinese Generators is the fact that they use Aluminum instead of Copper in the field windings which melts into at connection points under full load whenever a connection loosens up a little bit. I also got quite a few for repair due to the voltage regulator module failing which is sometimes difficult to obtain for replacement.
Octogenarian here. My standby generator saved my life durting the Texas 2021 freeze that took over 200 lives.
Good on you but I like cancun cruz's idea a bit better. I hear abbott likes it too
@@johnryan8859this aged even better than anticipated. Lol
@jdtx2004 😂😂 Yes it did. I'm still without power. 😢
No powers right now in Houston
I have an eco flow and a 500 Jackery. I’m definitely upgrading. This heat and no ice is no joke.
Y'all, we're still without power here in Houston. Centerpointless for sure
I only use mine for camping but when I camp it is a month at a time and I'm off grid the whole month. I also am using the 3500 and not one as big as yours. It is going on 6 years old and has run from sea level to just over 9000 feet. It has sat in both rain and full sun and to date never missed a lick. It is still stock with no mods and only receives scheduled maintenance.
For us I'd go with the Predator and a transfer switch. I just wish you had put this video out last year before I bought my current, underpowered portable generator. For you guys, since you've already bought the Kohler, the Predator will make a nice back-up gennie as well as being one you can take up to that cabin site when you need to work up there.
Thanks!
The predator is also not a 100% duty cycle generator. They are really only rated for about 4 to 6 hours of use and then should be shut down for an hour or two. They don't have much oil in them and that will really accelerate the engine wear if you try to run it 24 hours a day for multiple days. The oil probably needs changed after about 24 to 48 hours of use as well. I stand corrected the oil needs changed every 100 hours on these bigger models. Thats only 4 days of continuous use. Most people will not ever do that.
Not according to the specs
@@mrmotofy yep according to the specs it is rated for 50% load for 12 hours with gas. Which means 6 hours at 100% load. And the oils needs changed every 100 hours or about 4 days. The smaller units are even less. Most people think that these generators can just be run endlessly and they most certainly cannot.
Yep, best thing to do is to get 2 of them and cycle them every 4-6 hours.
YOU KNOW NOTHING.
@@steveww07 Please tell me more.
Have both a small and large Predator "quiet" generator (3500 and 9500W). The small 3500W generator has over 2000hrs on it (that was the last time the hour-meter worked) and has been an "outdoor" generator the entire time. I have changed the oil 3 times - and it was not even dirty! Ive gone through 4 other generators(5-7kW), with more oil changes and maintenance. My 9500 is super reliable and starts with no problem even though it also sits outside. Only have about 80 hrs on it, so it's barely broken in.
I bought a dual fuel generator for the same reason of versatility of fuel. Also mine is stand by with me moving it into place. I have not put gas in and only run test on propane so the carb and gas fuel system won’t glow from non use. I know you can take out you start mod but Harbor Freight may not honor warranty. I would consider getting the extended warranty because some of their equipment fails after 90 days but still in first year. Also your running method will put more stress on predator unit. The other unit is built for these extended run times under heavy load. You don’t want your generator failing while you’re away.
Thanks for the video guys. Happy Easter!
Those Kohler generators usually run forever off grid. Have several with 5-10 thousand hours, no joke. But they can need things like the occasional brushes, bearings, cylinder head repair, etc in that time and mechanics cost real money to do that work. But most of the time it just runs which is attractive for someone who just wants to live. Hydraulic valve adjustment also.
For the price of the Predator it appears to be a really good unit!! Time will tell, but you could buy 5 or 6 of them compared to your Kohler!
That Kohler will last 15 or 20 years, or longer if properly cared for. Parts will be available too.
And its professional set up with run and forget capability @@bobbygene8274
Another excellent video, well researched and tested! Thanks Riley, you always do a great job! You seem to understand electrical things and how to adjust and fix things. I get a kick out of little Oliver, he sure seems to watch everything you guys do!
Something that’s very important to know is how “clean” is the power generated. Inverter type generators are very safe for electronics (like your very expensive Victron). While Kohler is not an inverter type, in does have a quality wound power head like most home backup generators(hardwired). Inexpensive non-inverter type generators usually have a horrible jagged sine wave. I highly recommend getting a “TABLET” oscilloscope + high voltage probe and have a look at it and many other things later on. That model is very easy to use, automatic, forgiving, inexpensive and the average handyman can learn most of its features in an hour or so. Once you check the output of the cheap generator and compare it to the victron, it won’t take an expert to surmise a verdict of YUCK 😮
They already have an EG4 Chargeverter. If they used it to charge their batteries directly, the sloppy A/C output of the Predator wouldn’t matter.
@@andysontag5336
Not sure how he’ll use it since he’s going to use the Victron “dry contacts” to start it, but yeah the chargeverter will be more likely to take it, but up to a point. Some of those outputs are so bad I refuse to call them a sine wave.
The victrons are specifically designed to work with non inverter generators, and have lots of controls to deal with low quality incoming power. They will be just fine on pretty much anything that can make juice, and will detect and protect themself in situations where the power is so bad it could damage something.
@@mutt2jeff
That may be true but you also have to factor if they feed through the inverter to the house as well, not just charging the batteries. Inverter type heat pumps and many appliances will not survive long on a bad sine wave. But they need to have a look at it with an inexpensive O scope to be sure before it’s condemned to chargeverter only.
As I understand it generators are Pure Sine so clean and fine
Excellent video. Riley, since you have the ability and the platform to try things we only dream of, here is a future project. Find/build a small(sized for average energy use, and runs continuously Dec-Jan), low rpm(more durable), DC generator to charge the batteries directly(more efficient), and use the waste heat from the exhaust/cooling system to suplement heat for the house( combined heat and power).
Keep doing what you do.
Happy Birthday, Oliver! Happy Easter, Casey Family!
60+ hours on my 9500 Predator generator. Most of those hours were from the 2021 Texas ice storm and several 8+ hour outages during badass TX thunderstorms, too.
At the time of purchase, I bought 2 voltage regulators, brushes, a factory carb, large wheel kit, and a CNG carb for spares. Along with a breaker panel interlock, weatherproof 50 amp tap for the house, and the cable, I think I'm $1000 deep into my backup system.
Essentially, it's paid for itself close to 5x considering the cost to replace food in the fridge, not to mention saving my pool in freezing cold weather, and burst pipe damage that most of my surrounding neighbors experienced. Even if it died tomorrow, I'm running out to get another one.
Next step is to use the extra heat from the generator to warm up your house.
Or heat and defrost the heat pumps
Exactly! 💯
Thanks for this week's production, I always enjoy watching. Great comparison of the methods you have chosen to power your life in a remote location. A significant amount of Solar, several Generators using various fuel types have been seen over the years and each have their up and down sides. E-bikes, E-Golf Cart, and now the E-Truck. Life is a learning experience and I continue to learn by watching you and many others with my Solar powered cell phone. Thanks for everything you provide...
the kohler is a bigger unit, higher output. once youve added autostart, weather proof cabinet its closer to 1/3 vs 1/6 th the cost.
You mentioned having an issue with your Kohler generator after just an hour. My mother had a Kohler backup generator installed at her house, and it's set to run for about 20 minutes a week on Saturdays. On the second Saturday it ran for about 5 minutes and shut off. She had my brother take a look at it and it showed low oil, despite having just been installed and filled by the Kohler techs. He started topping up the oil and it just poured out the bottom, so we called them for service and they came out and found a connecting rod hanging out the side of the block. I wonder if they had a supplier issue that caused a lot of failures and that's why there was a backorder for parts. It took about 6 weeks for her parts and another week for the shop to rebuild and test everything to make sure it would last more than an hour the second time they installed it, but since then it hasn't had a hiccup.
How does that electric truck do in that climate ? Battery output in that cold? Surprised you have that up there. Just curious honest question.
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels, It's very entertaining in this format, I wish it had an additional video that went more in depth as a tutorial for people that wanted to actually replicate it, I realize that video wouldn't be as entertaining, but would be helpful for those of us that aren't handy enough to get these things done without step-by-step details
Am I hearing 'second channel' with the in-depth or behind-the-scenes? (As if Courtney's not busy enough?)
I think I would get two Predators. Hook up one permanent on propane and one portable on gasoline. You could use the portable one in other location if needed.
This is so in depth real life review, I appreciate the work that goes into it. Thanks mate for the video!
Go with the cheapest that your batteries will charge on.
Aside from reliability, the main differences are likely to be the quality of the power coming out of the generator, which hardly matters as all you want to do is use it to charge your batteries.
Man - it seems you are in my head again Riley. When you put your container vid together I was doing the planning on my own off grid adventure, now you are doing a remote for the generator? Wait - are you standing behind me watching? Thank you for that solve! Beautiful work btw...
You're obviously at high altitude, the predator came with a high altitude carb kit, to change out the jet j the carburetor. Did you do that? Seems like you did not, and that probably is the explanation!
Thanks for being upfront about the ACTUAL cost of the Kohler. Can’t just buy something like that and be done. Lots of stuff to do and lots of extra cost with those types of generators.
I was quoted 15K in Texas this summer and I had to find a propane tank to run it they didn't do that part.... total would have been over 16,500 and that was without maintenance program...
Whew!!?? Way beyond my paygrade..I would need a tech.
My thoughts, too.😅
Then it's time to call an electrician.
HF generators are just as good as any other. They are made in the same factory as the expensive models.
Any evidence?
The other expensive chinese models?
I've been in the generator industry for 15 years now. My first couple years was servicing and repairing those Kohler generators. Good generators for sure but not without issues. For dependability I would go with a diesel generator. The old military gens are great. I was hoping to find a used small Kohler with a John Deere around 30-40kw. I ended up with a older Cummins generator but with Kohler built controller and voltage regulator. It's a 100kw gen powered by a 12v Cummins engine. I basically got it for the cost of the brand new battery that it came with. I had serviced the unit for the last 7 years with my work.
You could buy 3 Predators, modify them all for remote start, hook one up to your solar/battery array permanently, hook one up in a similar fashion to your workshop, and keep one spare for mobility as and when you need it.
And you'd still have enough money left over to fuel them for months.
if you heard, the Predator has absolutely no service options. If you need service because you are no mechanic, you get lost. Valve clearances? I would buy an inverter generator wich has a clean energy rate
Until one stops with a crunch, as they are known to do. You do get what you pay for.
@@markmitchell457 Keep the valves adjusted (EASY to do). Change the oil, oil filter, and air filter and it shouldn't be a problem... It should last quite a while. I have seen tests and reviews of the predator engines, and they seem pretty well built. Like any other engine, you just need to take care of them.
Back in February of 2021 we all experienced the ice storm that caused major power outages in the southern parts of the USA.My welder/Generator Miller 500D puts out 24KW of power was used for powering our whole house for 248hrs or 10+ days! The welder never stop once we hooked it up by turning off main 200amp breaker and turning on 50amp breaker back feeding the main breaker panel with everything online like we never lost power. We wash clothes like normal, heated our home, no lost of frozen food or anything. The diesel fuel that was use for every 1hr of constant power during the whole time period was a half a gallon of diesel fuel! It has a 25 gallon tank to run about 48hrs before filling up which we did by fuel cans that we filled up by our 500gal diesel storage tank.! A diesel power generator is the way to go with powering a home during a power outage if in a rural area!the advantage of farm diesel is a cheap fuel to power your home for long power outages like we all experienced and with hurricane season on it's peak and other storms and outages it better to be prepared even if it is a small generator is better then nothing. Fossil fuels are not ready to be phased out or taken away do to going green has proved not ready for prime time during multiple events after the ice storm we all face. Stay cool during summer seasons and Stay warm during winter season and stay safe when using generators and help your neighbors, friends, and family as they will help you! 0:06
What elevation are you at. Elevation plus temperature effect both generators especially if you run propane.
We're at 2200ft of elevation so that could make us lose a little. However I would think the cold temps would off-set it. Very good points though!
i just bought the 13000.10000 predator and so far love it. and a friend bought one and had it 5 months and out of the blue it just quit charging we loaded it back up took it back and they didn't have one but they looked and found one 30 miles away and ask if they wanted it brought there or if we wanted to go get it. ZERO trouble replacing it. the only trouble we had was they didn't have one there. and i just sold my 15 year old 8750/7500 predator and never had any trouble with it.
I want to know more about those timer relays.
Here's a link! amzn.to/3TXAjCj
I might be able to help if you have a more specific question(s), but if you get in too deep a comment sections isn't the place to start learning about ladder logic (relay) control design. The type he has is din rail mounted, used with a wide variety of options for industrial controls, which tend to be expensive (what's $200 to a manufacturing plant?).
The more affordable types are usually socked mounted, fitting into the same or similar socket as ice cube relays. You can get UL listed to meet US code, or can buy an unrated equivalent Chinese model which works the same but has no UL or other code approval.
There's lots of operation options, below is a common generic description for the 2 most common types.
For most applications, a "delay on" relay is sufficient. There is usually a dial or switches on the top to set the time delay. When the coil is activated (power to the relay input), there is a time delay before a normally open contact closes, whereas with a typical relay the contact closes instantly. When the coil is deactivated, the contact opens instantly like a typical relay.
The other common type is "delay off" which are more expensive and consume more power. When the coil is activated, the contact closes like with a typical relay. When the coil is deactivated, the contact remains closed until the timer expires, then the contact opens. This requires an additional power connection to hold the contact closed until the timer expires.
He probably could have used a typical DPDT (double pole double throw) relay across the switch instead of hacking his remote. On the generator I plan to use, there are other connections on the switch, but thy are just used for light indicators.
He probably could have used 2 delay on and 1 normal relay which could have saved him a decent amount of money.
From these, you can build some complicated controls. For example, in my planned setup:
1. Monitor PUCo (public utilities power) to activate when the power goes out.
2. Delay before trying to start because I don't want to start for a few second power outage.
3. Simulate depressing the switch twice (how mine starts). The generator will try to start on its own 3 times.
4a. If there is power at the generator output for a period of time, it is considered running, go to step 10.
4b. If there is no power after a timeout, repeat 3 again.
5. Repeat step 4b 5 times or so, after which quit trying to start. If it doesn't start in 15 tries, it isn't likely to start, to continue trying would just run down the battery and wear out the starter motor.
6. After starting, wait a period of time for the motor to warm up.
7. After motor warms up, activate a larger 50+amp contacts relay to send power from the generator to the automatic transfer switch, and begin running of the generator.
8. When PUCo comes back on, if not running, quit trying to start.
9. If the generator is running, wait a timeout to ensure the PUCo power didn't return for just a couple of seconds.
10. The automatic transfer switch will not be pulling power from the generator now because it would have switched back to PUCo power at step 8. Continue to allow the generator to run for a timeout period to cool down.
11. Simulate depressing the switch once (how my model is turned off).
12. Monitor the generator output power, if the generator fails to stop after a timeout, repeat 12 indefinitely until the generator stops.
I will be pulling gasoline from larger transfer tanks. If I can't use gravity feed by code, will need to add a small fuel pump to start before depressing the switch in step 4, stop when I call for the generator to stop in step 12.
This requires:
6 delay on relays
3 normal relay
1 normal 50+ amp contact relay (to turn generator power on and off to transfer switch).
trickle charger for generator battery
4 pin wire harness so I can disconnect from the generator (relay to simulate pushing the button mounted on the generator, tapping into the generator battery for part of the control circuit).
Relays are 12Vdc and 120Vac.
Automatic transfer switch fed by generator and PUCo distribution panel.
PUCo distribution panel.
Generator distribution panel fed by automatic transfer switch.
Power is from 4 sources: generator battery for controls, backup generator distribution panel (after automatic transfer switch), directly from the generator output, and PUCo (signal to tell if PUCo power is on or off).
In a few places I will have 2 power sources entering the same control cabinet, I haven't looked up the best way to handle by code (I think sign on panel door and segregation in a 1 or 2 gang box will work).
I might need to add a 2nd generator battery in parallel if the relays drain the battery too quickly, which would also need some type of mounting bracket.
The above doesn't include some status indicators:
battery level indicator with low battery alarm (can buy pre-made units)
fuel level indicator with low fuel alarm (I'm converting level to 4-20mA signal and using pre-made units)
generator running (relay on gen output before generator distribution panel)
generator fail to stop (relay on gen output before generator distribution panel)
@@1SCmeWow, that is very helpful, thanks a million for taking time to post!
It's like you read my mind. I have a Westinghouse dual fuel generator that I use with my Sol-ark 12k setup, I have been trying to figure out how to easily 2 wire start it for months. Thank you for the solution!
That Kohler generator basically looks like the same thing used in RVs, just put in a housing for the emergency use at your house. From the trouble that I have seen with them from many RV users, I wouldn’t touch one with a 10 foot pole. I would rather have the predator generator and purchase the extended warranty on it. Like they say if it quits working, just take it back and drop it off and they will give you another one. That would be much faster than waiting on them, trying to fix the Koehler generator, which the RV people have trouble with them being fixed or staying fixed for more than a week or two. Khroler has become a product that is selling on an age, old name of quality which does not exist anymore.
Hey Hey Riley, I have ordered parts from HF four times. Delivery was quick and a small shpg charge. One of the items was an 1 hp electric motor for my metal cutting band saw (it was not HF but the motors were matches). The first
motor would not kick in. I called and they sent me another motor no questions-oh and keep the first motor. I've found them to be pretty easy to deal with. My HF is only six miles away.... Since they eliminated Chicago Electric their electric products have improved a bunch. I've some friends that love their Predator engines-they claim those match the Hondas they had before. I don't know any of my friends that have had their Predators longer than two years.
I also have a 12,500 w pto generator that I can run off of my B3200 Kubota (32hp 4cyl diesel). I've only had one thorough test. I ran it for 66 hrs straight at 2400 rpm. I was filling it every 16hrs. It holds 6.5gal. The voltage would drop about 10v for all of 3-4 seconds when the AC compressor (2t) switched on.
Buy 2 Predators and wire them in fail-detect switchover mode. Still way cheaper and online backup for your backup!
Great stuff, I’d lean into the Kohler vs the Harbor freight 1/6 the cost unit. The maintenance, the valve adjustment requirement, is an indicator of the total design. Keep it up guys!
I think a lot of your viewers would rather see you undertaking a construction project. Infomercials can be interesting but only so many before people lose interest
Your empirical analysis of the two generators failed to addressee maintainability and above al, reliability.
Reliability probably the most important if he's completely off the grind and needs to heat the house.
For years I've been using a Miller Trailblazer (welder/generator) for backup. It's a very manual system, so whenever the power goes out, I get a bit jealous of our neighbor's automatic backup system. But as I only need it about once every two years, I don't yet feel the need to automate. I use it as a welder many times a year.
Thanks for the test.. If nothing else, it shows me that power specs are NOT what they state (sort of like power amplifiers were in the '70's). I had thought that a 13KW genniie SHOULD be enough.. but your tested load was closer to HALF that?! And I didn't even think about longevity of the gennie itself..
I think the cost of the Kohler, Generac, GE, and Westinghouse is too stratospheric for my broke budget. Some people are paying up to $12K for a backup power solution.. it just makes no sense.
I have been surprised you have spent so many episodes on power related issues.. when it looks to me like you realistically solved that a year ago.. I guess I don't understand the concern.. really.. Run your apartment off the Lightning??
Actually, the Mr Cool thang was far more interesting.. given the severity of your climate. I guess HVAC really has improved immensely. Can't wait to see the episode where you put in a better garage door, make a new cabin up on the hill, and where you get through the struggle of getting that D8 out of the mud (I know, NOT a high priority). Thanks as always for the prompt posting!!! 😀
WELL DONE. I've used the same propane Kohler setup for over eight years with all the ups and downs, but it's been a considerable cost since I'm not as mechanically inclined. The one concern is whether the HF unit will work for auto start, but the unit is a viable replacement at a fraction of the cost. Since the unit is near the house, my only concern would be a soundproof storage unit.
So is this channel just weekly infomercials now?
Are you forced to watch?
@@DonnieDarko727 are you forced to comment Donnie dorko?
@@ronhicks8271 evading the question. You lose
@@DonnieDarko727 ... Don't be a troll
I mean partly, but it was pretty informative as well.. I think it was a happy medium
Just found your channel and it’s well done, thanks. Also you guys are so lucky!! What a beautiful baby you have!! My son is 32 and I miss my baby, he was so cute. LoL cherish this time with him.
Stay safe
This dude is a survival apocalypse Elon musk 😂
Another option you can do for your switch instead of all of those relays is purchase a BroadLink RF mini or similar. It will record the signal sent by the remote and re-broadcast it. You can use something like if this than that to detect when your batteries at a certain point and trigger the BroadLink to start your generator 21:38
Went from
Ambition strikes
To
Infomercial
😐
Regarding weather resistance of the Predator, I run an open frame 4550 Predator on my semi truck. I don't cover it and run through all kinds of weather and salt. The only thing I've had trouble with is the CO monitor-it doesn't like getting wet. Everything else seems to be pretty bulletproof. It's been on my truck for over a year.
Sorry to say you are becoming a commercial I would like more of what you used to do personal hard work at building things you sound and are acting as an infomercial
Riley, (BTW, love that name, My oldest grand-daughter is also named Riley, Yes, for those who don't know, it is a unisex name) I know you used to be in the custom "stuff" business. If you made a DIY video to hook all that up, you could pre-make the parts and sell them, that is until a big company bought you out! As far as the tests, I'd have to go with the Predator myself. For cost and multi usability concept. The remote start for me would be "good enough" With like say your ability to monitor your battery levels remotely already. But, the way you understood, and set all that up, it is both amazing and genius! Great video as always sir, Thanks
im an electrician, the residential company i used to work for ONLY installed Kohler generators and Asco transfer switches, the biggest being a 60Kw. weve replaced other brands with kohler just because clients had so much trouble. im in union commercial electrical now so the gensets are caterpillar and transfer switches are still asco
ASCO makes many of Kohlers larger ATS's.
I bought two of the Predator generators and it runs the whole entire house I love it I even run my welding machine off of it😊
Holy cow. If I had all your knowledge in my head it would hurt sooooo bad. You’re amazing
I worked at HFT while in college. We had contractors that would buy our tools with the extended warranty. One dude would use the crap out of the wet saw for tile work and after it failed he'd come in, swap it out and pay the small fee for another warranty, rinse and repeat lol. It works great for some people.