HSE: Jake English, Pt. 2
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- / optimisticduelist
Hey gamers,
This time, we take an overview of Jake's early childhood, establish certain patterns for his behavior and observe how he perpetuates them later in life, and make some observations about his relationship with, and ultimately love for, Jane Crocker. Next time, we'll get into his more intensely romantic relationship with his best bro, Dirk Strider.
Til then, Keep rising!
This video was edited by Joyfulldreams, and she knocked it out of the park once again!
Huge props and thanks to her. You can find her at:
/ joyfulldreams
Find the music on Bandcamp!:
Hope Remains from LOFAM 3
unofficialmspa...
An Uncertain Venture from LOFAM 3
unofficialmspa...
Guns Blazing from LOFAM 2
unofficialmspa...
Skaianet from Homestuck Vol 9
homestuck.band...
![CHILE vs. BRASIL [1-2] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5ObJt_71AYc/mqdefault.jpg)
Some notes for people who'll be curious about my thoughts on the Epilogues:
1. The epilogues do not influence my view on Homestuck canon. They are explicitly post-canonical, and only one possible representation of how these character's stories could've played out.
2. I do intend to cover them in video form in some way so you can expect me to talk about them, just not in Homestuck Explained, which is about the canon of the webcomic Homestuck.
3. Dirkjake is problematic as hell in them but Dirkjake is also still real in them anyway. At the end of the day Meat Dirk is literally just a pissed off, bitter burnout of an ex. Jake left him and he's demonstrably not over it, and it's honestly kind of a hilarious trainwreck to watch. Doesn't change anything about these videos or about my interpretation of Dirk in the comic, though.
Also I may or may not already be over halfway through writing my own sequel fanfic to Meat. So uh if you want my Homestuck meta now delivered to you in the form of Homestuck fiction then...look out for that???
Anyway hope y'all enjoy the video. Keep rising.
"just not in Homestuck Explained, which is about the canon of the webcomic Homestuck."
bless u
Oh THANK you for acknowledging it isn't in the canon universe, I'm so tired of people trying to tie them together
(Also, idk if I ever commented on your videos before, but a.) I love how clear-cut and fascinating you make everything, and b.) Your voice is exactly how I imagined John's to be and it's giving me mild whiplash
meat dirk also is part caliborn
Although a separate story, the epilogues do tie in with events in "canon" and should be considered as such. Especially using Rose's definition of canon, Meat alone is both essential and relevant, and because it's official, it's more true than any fanworks showing the battle. Even Candy has some truth and essential-ness to it. Even if they're only two ways Earth C could have turned out, they do have more weight than the other infinite number of possibilities, and should be treated as such. By all means, you should keep HSE to solely the original comic, but I don't think that your reasoning for doing it is all that great.
@@unrenewable That reasoning isn't any better. The Epilogues are explicitly framed as fanfic, and they have no more truth or essentialism to them than any other piece of fanwork. That's the point of the framing. I could pull up dozens of other fanworks that have as much if not more relevancy to the canon because of their perspective. AH and his team could have made something in the normal style of Homestuck. That they chose not to is important and you should pay attention to that.
The journey of the page is very misunderstood, everyone, including the characters, thinks it's some huge emotional coming of age when in fact is was supposed to just be the journey to find pants.
Being a Page is hard. it’s hard, its hard and nobody understands. Particularly when you can’t pull off your god tier outfit. #PageOfMind Not all of us are as amazingly fit/sexy as one jake English. XD
@@calorinedarkness5232 page of light here, and I have a problem that I need to wear 110% clothing or I feel panicky, not even counting social anxiety. After ascension I would just disappear into the aether, which would _probably_ be something I could do...
A Bird Lover amen to that, but I tend to wear shorts (the silky smooth, and breathable kind) short sleeve shirts (of the same variety) and a large hoody/jacket. But as a Page of Mind, I would just “think up” and updated outfit (if that was one of my abilities). Or just.... disappear into my own mind. A self tailored fantasy land. :) *sigh* being a Page will hopefully pay off.
A Bird Lover or better yet... trickster mode!
@@calorinedarkness5232 my ideal outfit is plaid pajama pants and a giant black sweatshirt, or grey sweater. Trickster mode is a whole can of _hell no, I refuse the druggo_ but maybe with my god tier ability I could like, deflect light? Away from me and my total lack of pants?
Dirk and his various iterations have always been about providing adversity, hasn't he? Not so much because he wants to, but because he thinks it's what other people want or need. It's the same as Jake's tendency to lie to everyone, including himself: they both think they're helping.
No wonder they're a flaming trainwreck as a couple and post-couple. I mean that in the best way possible.
In a way, it makes sense: both boys have lived through isolation and trauma, with only long-distance relationships with their friends the only means of social interaction that they have. They have no way of knowing what's proper etiquette and what's not. So, what they believe to be proper assistance is only viewed as proper because THEY think it's proper, by THEIR standards.
Thus flaming trainwreck ^^;
/POPS BIG BOTTLE. TWO POINTS!
1. By looking at the combination of Heart/Hope offspring, AR is definitely the first child who is saddled with too much responsibility and has a feeling of contempt for his 'parents.' By comparison, BGD is quite a bit more beloved, at least by Jake. This isn't a deep point, I just find it hilarious.
2. So Jake did all this work to ensure Jane would not hook up with him. Given his superpowered intuition and weirdly intimate understanding of his friends, and given Jane's whole THING is not having a clear picture of *her* friends, I believe it is safe to say that at least subconsciously, Jake was aware that the person Jane wanted to be with was an illusion, and the idea of living up to being that dashing heroic cuteboy that she saw him as was so terrifying, he rigged the English Sweepstakes in his own favor so he would be able to date the guy who at least marginally had a clear vision of who Jake really is.
2.b. If Jake is the least understood character in Homestuck, Jane is the next on that list, L B H.
"Don't judge a book by its cover."
_Now_ you see why he's a Page?
God damnit.
I never thought i'd relate to a guy in micro shorts so much.
Hussie works in mysterious ways.
Eh, my biggest gripe with Jake is "the Jakestakes" that surrounded him. The running gag about how everyone wanted a piece of Jake was funny for all about one page. Then it became incredibly sad, and then rapidly annoying because then everything about Jake from then on was centered entirely around his romance life, and the Beta Kids Romance Drama is the absolute worst.
So my issues was less with Jake and more with how everyone is treating him as this prize to be won in a passive aggressive war between friends.
It's what killed my interest in DirkJake so hard.
I mean, to be fair though, Dirk did drop out of that race and intend to stay out after he broke up with him, thinking that he had 'bullied' him into that point, and he admitted that he didn't think he had as much of a chance as Jane did because Jane was a sweet, pretty blue-themed girl and Dirk was a stoic dude on the wrong side of a couple centuries. Personally, I found it going from 'eye-rolling dumb teenager shit' to something legit alarming when Aradia and crockertier Jane came into the picture once Dirk left, since then it was less of a battle for romance and more of a battle for who got the pretty Hope boy to use, which was...distressing, to say the least. It makes me wish we got more conclusive info or examples on how powerful he could be to see past the sex factor and more into the political power you'd gain from having him on your side
Dear Lord, this video just hammers home how much of a Page I am "covers face"
Also liked the way you subtly implied that Pages invoke their opposing Aspect in others when not doing their job right: Jake kickstarts Rage with his bad habits, Tavros gets drenched in Blood, Horrus tries too hard to be in the Light, and I'm stuck in the Void -_-
The end highlights what I always believed about Jake, however: no matter how big of a flake he is, or how bad he's jacked things up with people, he loves his friends and is willing to do anything for them. Even die ;-;
By "their job" do you mean their goals and/or their habits?
@@DrHonk-gs9eb Job is a way to refrence to someone's class or role, originating from RPGs
@@curcarobert8864 Yes, I know what job means when used as a noun in role-playing games.
"And I'm stuck in the void" jeez, that got depressing real fast
@@FlamingLily "shrugs" Nobody really notices me, even when I post stuff on the media sites that I'm part of, like dA and fanfic sites. Even my family tends to ignore me until it's time for chores. I USED TO be more outgoing, but my folks put a stop to that early in my life when they thought hyper = bad grades. Not that it helped, things just went downhill from there until present day, where I'm only now starting to reclaim my old self.
I never actually thought through the implications of Jake's Just death. It's amazing how you uncover this stuff.
one day your animated furry persona will cross their arms, defend Vriska, and we'll all freaking die.
Mmm, yes, *charged* symbolism indeed.
I can't believe I never realized the paralels between Dirk's AutoResponder and BrainGhost counterparts. I'm now wondering how Jake's psychology and abilities may have tangentially carried over to ARQuius and Lord English.
Funny thing, I want to say that everyone in the Epilouges basically where given too much freedom, which could be why John seems so...
He basically did a Rouge and gave his freedom away, with no one to rayne them in, they started to drift away
It may just be my be-speedo'd page of light ass talking, but I've never hated Jake and have always related to him a lot about anxiety and stuff.
These videos on Jake are so good I’m so excited for part 3 omg
Is it bad that I would prefer to see a rework of HS with literally everyone in trickster mode (I.e in the GO timeline XD)?
well someone was GOING to make a fanventure like that but watermarks got in the way so it was cancelled
justcallmejester xP
Everyone treats my boy Jake like shit :c ESPECIALLY in the frigging epilogues, the boy can't just catch a break
I really wish I knew whay ghost jake and jane would have said to eachother.
Agh I always can sit down and love all of your videos. Like it's the only thing I can pay attention to easily.
come to think of it, the Knight and Page pair are two classes that appear to be in one polarity when in truth they are the opposite: Page is a very passive-like active class while Knight is a very active-like passive class. Like Yin and Yang in a way.
How do you feel about how the epilogues and Homestuck are connected? With the ideas of "canon" I mean since both texts are connected with the same plot points, plus characters timelines in the physics sense and with character arcs. What about all the new terms Rose mentions that involve Canon?
I feel like you’ll never run out of topics to discuss. The possibilities are endless!!! I love your videos!!
finna gonna have to go thru allll these videos again after i reread homestuck
I was waiting for this moment for so long ;w; ❤❤❤
When Jake said tender I originally thought he meant that as in gentle and soft and Jake is stuck in a conflict of wanting to adventure but also not die so the robot having two functions obliterates Jake and going to soft on Jake made sense
Omg I’m so psyched for part 3! I’m so excited I can’t wait!
I love your videos so much !! I got into Homestuck this year and I’m so happy to see genuine smart analysis video essays on characters and aspects (hehehe) of the comic
I know this is kind of silly, but sometimes I think of adventure time Jake when I think of Jake Homestuck, both have the same name and have a taste for adventure.
Sometimes I think it may have been intentional.
if i didn't ship them before i ship them now. ;^; yeehaa (dirkjake btw thats the ship)
I love your voice
I feel like compulsive lying is a very page of hope trait. After all, what is a lie but an attempt to get someone else to believe in something fake for your own benefit?
Just came home from my run, saw this awe yee
I didn't realize how much of a page I am. When I got Page as my God tier I was confused. Now I know that I am very much Page
Wow this is god damn interesting.
this makes so much sense
whens the Obama video
I NEED THE JAKE DIRK VIDEO AAAA
Trust me, same.
Jake's still a good bean, isn't he?
He is. He is a dork, and an adorable one. But his skull is as thick as they come.
He is really misunderstood, personally, during act 6 everyone just treated Jake like a piece of garbage and a prize to win, rather than a person :c
@@unlimon4712 He's just as complex as any other good character in HS
@@celestialVocalist indeed :s
On an unrelated note, I've come to the conclusion that humans, like trolls, also seem to be forced into a specific classpect: the Prince of Light. In this world we are surrounded by materialism, an ever growing pile of things to buy, and we buy those things because we think it'll make us happy; fortunate. However, the more we buy, the more we realize that someone else will always have more stuff than us, or seem happier than us. In our endeavors we have left behind absolute devastation, the destruction of others, the environment, and even ourselves. Today, we have technology that give off Light literally and figuratively, and we are destroying our bodies and social health for the sake of entertainment and curiosity. I'm not saying that's all bad, its just that most of us would be much happier doing something else with our lives. Just a thought.
Piles of things to buy and be happy because of them is Life, not Light. But yes, we live in the age of both Light and Life, and some people confuse them (thinking that economic success is main form of luck).
As a gay in texas
I can say that there's gays in texas
When it comes to Jake manipulating Jane by forcing a friendship. The way I see it is that Jake knew Jane likes him of course but he clearly doesn’t like her at all, well not in that way! So instead of telling her and putting her in her place he kinda just wimps out and friendzones her inadvertently getting his point across without confrontation. In a way I wouldn’t see this as a form of manipulation considering who Jane is. She clearly is extremely pushy and will try to make advances no matter what. Because of this I can see why he kept talking about his relationship to Jane for 6 months! Jane most likely just wasn’t getting the hint which is a fault of her own for being so obsessed with him, but also Jakes for being a wimp! The blame goes both ways but I’m more leaning with Jake because that situation is tough and I believe he had no ill will and wasn’t just looking out for himself Jane is just so stubborn and relentless. Jakes main fault is that he’s so incredibly passive he allows people to walk all over him. Jake = beta male 1000! Not even Tavros was this passive lol
yeS more Jake. >w>
could you possibly do a dave one?
6:47 that makes me laugh
Its 1:40am but fuck it
"The epilogues do not influence my view on Homestuck canon. They are explicitly post-canonical, and only one possible representation of how these character's stories could've played out."
Please do not dismiss the epilogues like that. Versions of the characters in the epilogues are the continuation of themselves and can tell you a lot about them.
If I was dismissing them entirely, I'd say they weren't a realistic or valid representation of the characters at all. They are a valid version of how the characters could turn out, given a lot of time and circumstance. I just don't agree with the idea that, for example, Dirk's behavior in the epilogues meaningfully tells us about his character in the comic. Too much has changed in the meantime, too much could've gone immensely differently, and he's too unreliable a narrator to say for sure just how.
Like I said, I'm still covering the epilogue. I think they're fascinating, and I'm interested in them. But treating them exactly like canon is missing the point they're beating you over the head with. They're not canon, and they strongly raise the idea that you should consider the idea of "canon" as a distinction with merit with considerable skepticism from now on.
:P I won’t either but.... that’s what fanfiction is for! ;) shipping, Good stories, and continuing the story.
@@optimisticDuelistBy its veyr nature, these are not 'what if' scenarios. they are both heavily connected event that re leading into another story. they are even directly connected. Terezi is gonna be aware the candy timeline exists. vriska is never one ot be contained and left out of the story. the intent is clear. the questin is only, When?
And yes i would say that what happened to dirk in the epilogue IS valid to his character in the comics. We know one fact. Dirk started getting information from his alternate selves. And if you can list the alternates, taht would include bro, which he would be aware as a douche. he would see the self in game over, see what it was like to fail. He would see himself CREATING LIL CAL and thus lord english himself. And it is very, veyr possible he would gain the memories of both lord english and doc scratch, as both of them are made from lil hal.
Dirk feared becoming a villain, becoming like Bro. so what do you think his reaction would be when he realizes he was an essential part of lord english, not only creating lord english by his own powers but being a part of him through lil hal? its his nightmares realized. and its possible his motivations are focused on either playing his role, or trying to redeem himself no matter the means he needs.
so no, the epilogues re where the story went, leading to where its going, and it covers one of dirk's fears being realized. they cannot be dismissed as optional content at all. that is not theri design, not their intent in the slightest.
also his awarenes of the narrative could bef rom his connection to doc scratch. it kinda jump started his powers. of course doc scratch himself would have no power over it, powerful though he was. but with dirk's utlimate self nature, he could apply the knowledge accordingly and learn to use it......... experimenting on his friends and honestly going insane regardless.
I dont hate jake I just dont get any personal relatable vibes from him, Im more like Dirk, since I myself have a prince in my life that sadly is one of the time aspect and im an heir of heart so its an awkward situation. anyway im just not to big on jake because he kinda just appears to not have real motivation in sburb unlike many of the other humans. but looooved the video just ranting here :p
@ironicOptimist oh my, I have a dave/dirk relationship with my dad weirdly imagine if dave was a heart player and dirk was a time player and im dave in a nutshell when it comes to that family dynamic. anyway Im an Heir of Heart and my boyfriend is a page of life so we sort of blend perfectly. I simplified it to I inherited his love while I give him life. like a cycle sort of just to be cute and nerdy but damn sounds like a story and a half on your side and im glad that things are going a lot better for you now atleast :p
8:40 He's not taken advantage of by Aranea! She politely let him go almost immediatly and excused herself because she thought he wanted that. #AraneaDidNothingWrong #AraneaLifeMatter
She literally exploits his powers against his will to claim a tactical advantage. That's still taking advantage of someone.
That said I do not disagree with you about the second half, stan aranea
Homestuck epilogue jake’s sweet butt
Pageofhoperightssprite
Now I hate Jake even more, I used to do the same dumbass babbie shit of hiding my feelings and saying small lies to my friends to not hurt them but end up messing up (and breaking quite a few hearts), and also helping friends (or pretty much anyone) even if they had been assholes when they are in need just because I don't like seeing people noy being happy (I still do this and I don't mind it honestly)
2 view 11 like huh ?
First
I beg of you... stop saying shanel. It drives me nuts T_T
Procreative slavery is a very creative way to not say the r word on youtube