Car Bomb was the last band I've witnesseed before the onset of the pandemic. and oh boi, these rapid time signature changes tickled my brain so hard, I was left with tears
I just realized you're combining all your roles of listener, transcriber, composer, performer, academic, and video creator to bring us this incredible video. The level of detail in your analysis is just intensely satisfying :D. Thanks!
In an interview Elliot said that Greg will write the music with midi drums and then send it to him as audio only; which Elliot interprets it however he wants. He said they often disagree with what's happening within their own songs but learn to play it all together live before recording. Mike also said once the music is written he just listens to it and interprets it how he wants and sings over it.
Oh that's super interesting, I haven't seen that interview! I've talked to them a little and will talk to them a lot more when I get deeper into my dissertation work!
It's amazing how a layperson can assume Car Bomb is a Meshuggah ripoff while the whole rhythmic modulation fun / perceived fluid tempos make it like a completely different universe. Funnily enough, at the same time, I somehow tend to recommend the band as "more catchy" Meshuggah
When Centralia came out I tried to push it on anyone who would listen as "like Meshuggah and Dillinger Escape Plan had a baby," they really do stand alone until the rest of the world catches up though.
@@TheSquareOnes "like Meshuggah and Dillinger Escape Plan had a baby" i used to do the same lmao. These days Car Bomb is, well, Car Bomb. But in the Centralia/ w^w^^w^w era i really went into the Meshuggah/DEP comparison in a try to introduce my friends into this band.
I often describe CarBomb to those unfamiliar with them but familiar with Meshuggah as "writing better Meshuggah songs than Meshuggah does." Very under-rated band IMO.
Funny how you call them more catchy meshuggah cause I think Car Bomb is the least catchy band I’ve ever heard. Not to say they aren’t incredible, but catchy is definitely not the word I would use.
As you lead in to an example saying how "the average listener might hear...." I think every time how I'm not an average listener. Then you break it all down and I realize just how fantastically average I am. It makes me appreciate the music so much more. Your work baffles me and fascinates me at the same time. What a blast!
Haha even after spending months transcribing this stuff and playing it and writing this I find myself hearing that way most of the time too! And thanks!
Absolutely phenomenal in-depth analysis of this band's innovative style. This really pieced together a lot of my fragmented thoughts about this band. When I transcribe Car Bomb songs, it's always been a struggle deciding whether or not to actually notate when the metric mods or PPT mods aren't mathematically exact (the expressive exaggeration discussed in the video). Watching this analysis made me realize that if I want to create a fully in-depth transcription of any Car Bomb song, I should include exaggeration cues, and maybe even specify what the average perceived tactus for a given section is, in the often-occurring situation where Car Bomb sheet music is more visually pleasing/readable when the meter isn't necessarily dictated by the commonly felt tactus. Thanks for your hard work.
I love the effort man. I cant imagine how long and difficult this entire project was. Your passion for Car Bomb's musical intricacy is truly beautiful. That said: Car Bomb is soo fucking sickk dude pfffffffffff
Super sick - your visual and audio aids really help explain these complex ideas. Constantly referencing the primary material (the music itself!) is a great way of keeping the focus tight. Excellent stuff! 👌
This is amazing. It shows that while someone trying to learn their music, will have their own way of doing it, likely broken down into digestible parts, then pieced together.... It's way different than the band itself understands, writes, hears and plays the music. Which is levels above what most of us can understand. These guys ARE JUST at a higher level than what can be seen, even by folks who love the music. We who love Car Bomb know WELL that they're incredibly high-level, but this just shows they're even more skilled and tactful than we thought. You are awesome, man. Not kidding, wherever you're getting your musical education, you've gleamed everything you can from it. And I have no doubt you're gonna get even better. Can't imagine what level you'll be at in just 6 months. Rhythmic Parallax, I love it. I wish I was skilled enough to coin such a term. *Boyfriend of the account holder commenting*
This puts into words (very descriptive and well thought out words) an idea I've had about rhythm and how it can sound different depending on when you start "paying attention" to a certain section of a song. Brilliant video.
Absolutely brilliant analysis - using Hasty's theory absolutely applies to Car Bomb more than most. The whole composing-to-pulse rather than to tactus is a pretty genius take
Here's my humble summary based on my understanding of the video: The rhythm is so complex, it may not yield the same tempo feel to different listeners: 1. Listener: The band exploits genre conventions (cymbal hits and backbeats) to infer certain tempos, however they may be just keeping the same tempo while doing almost unpercievably longer and shorter bars (changing time signatures) or modulations (tuplets). To the "casual" listener, it sounds like the track slows down and speeds up with a wonky feel. 2. Composer: This is where all these ideas are originally mapped out. The tempo, time signature changes, and rhythmic structure are conceived to take advantage of these effects. 3. Performer: Once the track is very very rehearsed, the band forgoes a click track entirely and performs it based purely on the feel it creates. This includes the studio version and live shows. 4. Transcriber: Since every performance is slightly different, it's no use trying to get a digitally exact tempo count. One must balance between exactness, readability, and what the band may have originally intended. Thank you for taking the time to study this and present it so well. This stuff is way more interesting that I would have thought!
Damn dude. I had to listen to the slowed version of the 5,4 crash accents several times to even hear it, and even then i could barely tell at speed. I'm supposed to be a drummer XD
As a drummer who can play along to Porcupine Tree for a full set, it would take me months, if not years, to figure out how to play a Car Bomb set. Elliot is just something special.
Dude. This is so awesome and needs more attention. Finally someone to analyze stuff like CarBomb. Maybe you could take on Panzerballett too some time. They play around with science-level rhythmic stuff all the time, especially in their older albums.
wow!! i've been a fan of Car Bomb's music for a while. so good to see someone giving such a wonderfully in-depth analysis and so precisely deconstructing what it is that seems to make their compositions so compelling. I love your focus on elevating regard towards the listener's unique experience of rhythmic tactus and how it interfaces with other perspectives at every angle like this.
This is not only great content but is a great challenge to follow. Not because of the delivery but because it is so complicated and yet so well explained, it is inherently taxing lol. Thanks man!!
Yooooooo I'm not a musician by any stretch and i've understand probably 20% of things you describing but my mind is still got blown to pieces! I've listen to Car Bomb for around 10 years now but never thought their music is SO FUCKING COMPLICATED Don't know if i can call this a "study" but it was very interesting to watch and listen, thank you for your work!
awesome essay, I've only had time to skim it so far but it's for one of my favorite songs right now so I'm definitely coming back to digest the whole thing. I bet this was fun to make!
I really hope you're familiar with Gavin Harrison's music and body of instructional material. He literally wrote the book "Rhythmic Illusions". He is a master of displacements and odd meters, while also being one of the most creative musicians I have ever listened to. I would highly recommend two albums he did with 05ric, 'drop' and 'circles', where you can hear in context many of the concepts he put forward in the books 'Rhythmic illusions' and 'Rhythmic Perspectives'.
Yeah someone put me onto those books a little after I did this paper, really interesting stuff! They're part of the larger article project based on this I'm (slowly) working on!
@@metalmusictheory5401 That's awesome, I figured you would have heard of that stuff already. Do you post or publish these papers online anywhere? I'd love to check them out sometime.
@@meters_and_madness my website www.calderhannan.com has everything listed with links to everything that's available online (and anything that isn't open access send me an email and I'll send it to you)
Wow, and I thought as a "listener" I had a pretty good understanding of the techniques used by the "composer". Great work! I'll try to keep this perspective in my own writing and listening.
I encountered rhythm parallax when transcribing Meshuggah songs. Like when from the guitar riff repeats, when it had an additional fill, how it relates to the 4/4 beat. "Should I transcribe this part in this time signature or this one?"
Yeah as I'm trying to turn this into an article I'm thinking about making it bigger to talk about "metric parallax"-what you hear in Meshuggah, a lot of other bands, where the question is "what is the meter?" or "where is the downbeat?"-as opposed to "rhythmic parallax," where the question is "what even is the beat/tempo?"
It's funny I tend to lean towards larger hyper-metrical and groove cycles of their music. I hear the riff at 5:10 as much more of a slow 4/4. Rather than thinking of it as 4+5, each bar of 9/16 acts as a quarter note. I would also argue that you could notate the 5/8 and 7/8 bars in the chorus as simply a bar of 6/4 and the groove becomes way more apparent even with all the push and pull. I think a lot of people get hung up on the in your face modulations of their music, which of course are super fun to catch, but often miss that a lot of their music often has a simpler groove underneath often in just 2/4, 4/4, or 6/4. The push and pull and lack of click track in their music throws people for a loop so they notate it as a something/16 rather than accounting for that they might just be pulling or pushing a fairly normal meter. This comes from the whole make simple complex concept of Meshuggah's music. Killin video by the way. It's cool to see people starting to take note of how badass this music really is. Interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Thanks! And for sure, I think a huge part of why their music (and Meshuggah's music) slaps so hard is because these larger background structures are there if you listen for them. There's a cool article about Meshuggah that describes how roughly speaking at their shows you have the "moshers" in the pit, who are hearing these simpler hypermetric structures, and the "counters" in the balcony, who are keeping track of all the patterns and everything (mtosmt.org/issues/mto.18.24.3/mto.18.24.3.lucas.html). The way of hearing that you're describing-the more zoomed-out approach-is definitely another perspective, another layer of this rhythmic parallax thing where you can understand these rhythms in a bunch of different ways that seem different. I guess one of the things I'm trying to do with this is show how, if you're hearing "pushing and pulling" in the tempo at that level, that can actually be accomplished by a couple different things: changes to the length of meters, tempo modulations, actual off-the-grid push and pull, etc. Have you played any of their stuff? I'd be interested to hear how this translates into drumming (I'm guessing from your username you play drums); I've played this song on guitar, but my drum chops are nowhere near good enough to pull off any of what Elliot does. But I wonder if maybe drummers tend to hear those larger structures, because you have to articulate them (with cymbals and fills, etc), more than guitarists. And then maybe singers hear the most zoomed out of everyone, because they don't have to worry so much about the micro level.
@@metalmusictheory5401 This is awesome, thank you for the response too! It's actually interesting I play bass in a band heavily influenced by Car Bomb and Meshuggah, and my drumming is mostly jazz drumming in various ensembles. My metal drumming is fairly lacking. Car bomb employs and performs rhythm very similarly to how the Miles Davis quintet plays rhythm on their album Four and more. You would probably enjoy this album quite a lot as the drummer Tony Williams plays really similarly to how Elliot Hoffman plays albeit in a totally different style of music. Lots of push and pull and illusion. I think it's why I like Car Bomb so much. When I play bass I tend to focus while learning the figures, but once that is accomplished, it's all about feeling the largest possible division, that way I don't overthink the part. Tomas Haake of Meshuggah talks about this style of playing in this awesome interview. He thinks of their music in terms of 8, 16, 32, and 64 bars. talksruclips.net/video/ba2X4r12lv4/видео.html
@@metalmusictheory5401 Here are two great interviews with Car Bomb's drummer too. You are honestly the first channel on youtube who is doing this stuff properly. A lot of people try to analyze this kind of music, but the fail as they aren't properly trained. The theory of Rhythmic Parallax makes total sense. ruclips.net/video/dVh978qmnD8/видео.html ruclips.net/video/UWFbT_tFz1M/видео.html
@@drumkidstu Nice! Yeah I play jazz guitar (and I love Tony Williams). The difference I see is that in almost all jazz (with the exception of a few tunes like "Joshua" and more recent stuff that have weird forms) and almost all of Meshuggah's music (with the exception of a few scattered examples like the chorus from "Demon's Name"), that background 4/4 metric / hypermetric structure never actually gets violated (if you haven't, check out my video on Meshuggah, which goes into a lot more detail about this, including about Meshuggah always saying their music is in 4/4). So in jazz and Meshuggah (and plenty of other metal), these background structures don't ever actually change (it will always be exactly 32, or 64, or 128 beats before another chorus starts or a riff repeats), even if it seems like they do for a little at a time. The difference with Car Bomb's music (and plenty of other metal) is that these background structures aren't rigid; no matter how you slice it, the chorus of "Blackened Battery" (and most sections of the song) doesn't last for an exact multiple of 4 (or 8 or 16) beats (and that's before even talking about how the tempo changes and all the wild stuff I go into in the video). So Meshuggah and jazz (to generalize a lot) play off against these rigid background hypermetric structures ("hiding" the meter, skipping around barlines, etc), while Car Bomb actually warps these background structures. Which doesn't mean it's not a good way to think about it when playing if you're flexible with your counting, just that there's a significant difference in what Meshuggah are doing and what Car Bomb are doing. Sorry for the long reply, hopefully at least some of it was intelligible...
@@metalmusictheory5401 it's perfectly intelligible. You are quite right about this. Car Bomb rarely fits their music into traditional phrase lengths. About the only portions of their music that do that I can think of off the top of my head are the opening riff on Scattered Sprites and the ending breakdown of secrets within, which also happen to be 2 of their more "straight ahead songs." Generally when I first start listening to a new song by them I immediately tend to gravitate to the parallaxes they create rhythmically. It's only after extensive listening that I can think of it in long terms of like 2/4, 4, 6/4,7 etc, or some offed up back beat 😂😂😂 and mind you that's only in certain parts. In a lot of ways their music reminds me of early 2000s autechre and Squarepusher records, where the music is literally random and has very little form at all and quite often can be grooved to and interpreted in several ways. I know Greg and Elliot really like this stuff so I am sure it's why I can hear it in their music.
I have a 2 year degree in music recording, included a lot of theory, and I play in a prog band; just enough to understand what you're saying in this video. This is really fucking cool and I really appreciate the effort you put in to transcribe and describe this!
I was worried this video would be muddled or confusing but it's amazingly clear. I want to listen to songs like "Wabi-Sabi" by Tricot and see if I can apply these ideas. This reminds me of something the guitarist of Tricot said when asked in an interview about math rock: 'I would rather say that our music is “jumbled rock”.' That could reflect the view of the listener or the performer. I think this theory could also apply to Eastern Europen folk music, which could be described with odd time signatures, or as having patterns of long and short beats. Could this also apply to David Bennett's RUclips video "Songs with Confusing Intros" or is that stretching it too far?
Definitely! And yeah his video is based (consciously or not) on that metric fakeout idea from Justin London that I cite in this, definitely the same type of thing where the band hears one thing but it's unlikely the audience hears the same way (until the drums come in)
I know! In the last few minutes I talk about that, and when I use it before, it's more like a representation of what their internal sense of beat might be. And it is scary, especially considering how tight they are live...
More seriously, I'm reminded of your Catch-33 videos, which are similarly informed by listening, transcribing, and performing the music. Helps to have an analytical view of what's happening, but that can be an onramp to feeling it. Would be curious if you feel there's a meaningful difference between the transcriber's and composer's perspectives in Meshuggah's work. It feels like they'd be the same, or at least cut from the same cloth, in a way that isn't possible for Blackened Battery given the greater flexibility in tempo. But would love to hear your expert interpretation.
An interesting question! On the one hand, everything is so rigidly on the grid in Meshuggah's music that they'll probably be about the same. But for Meshuggah there's more of the question about meter, whether to notate stuff in 4/4 or in the guitar meter or some hybrid (and people have done all those options). So still rhythmic parallax (or maybe metric parallax), but a different type. I'm working on an article submission that will take these ideas further, so I'll be thinking a lot more about it!
How come people don’t talk about this technique and there are two vids on YT on it? You can create poly-rhythm, poly-meter or even do stuff like add quarter note parallax to a time signature in an 8th note subdivision
the question now is, do others copy how how car bomb leans into how their songs are perceived by the audience or not. I ,for one, believe this is the soul reason car bomb strikes a perfect balance between its technicality and its ability to be enjoyed by your average listener.
@@metalmusictheory5401 - Only played a few local shows in Buffalo. I am in North Central PA and played a bunch of shows in this area. Hard to tell, not often I get hit with that familiar feeling. Anyways great content regardless keep up the awesome work!
That was very interesting, thanks for that. Have you presented this paper in person? I'd be interested in its reception by the wider academic music theory community. Meanwhile on RUclips, this video made a great follow-up to Yogev Gabay's analysis of Car Bomb's "The Sentinel" (ruclips.net/video/_w7qpRWQ0kQ/видео.html), in case anyone watching this hasn't seen it (yet). Car Bomb's "unlocking" of tempo for added expression reminds me of non-equal temperament in pitch/tonality - this idea that there's a justifiable yet restrictive cage of "structure" that many listeners are largely unaware of, and through exposure/presentation via online video/RUclips you can learn to "free your mind" and appreciate more music in more detail. And lastly, props for the .strandberg* headstock in the background!
@@metalmusictheory5401 as much of a metal head as I am. That band has played a big part in my playing and as well as my life. Thank you so much man, they are something special for sure. I cant wait to hear man. This is the approach I wish more of us could take on music! It's fun!
Wonderful video, thank you! Always wondered how on earth Car Bombs music was constructed! One way to put what you have uncovered and obviously deeply understand, is that music is empty of (or 'lack') inherent existence. That is to say that music does not exist independent of the mind in which it appears. But what about the mind? Turns out the mind is empty (of inherent existence) as well, or put differently: the mind can not be separated from its contents. But is it not the case that everything, every perception in one's experience, appear in the mind? Well, yes. All phenomena, including everything, including the self-sense, is empty. It's not that it doesn't exist - it's something much, much deeper. Go figure, you obviously have more than enough brains for it! Or if you prefer, and I would highly suggest this, read up on improvisational-jazz-musician-turned-meditation-teacher Rob Burbea. Let me know how it goes! Love, Adam
@@metalmusictheory5401 Lovely! I've been thinking about reading Hofstadter but haven't gotten to it yet! Rob Burbea mainly focuses on the ways in which a deep understanding of emptiness moves us toward a life of greater freedom. It really doesn't do it justice, but basically what he encourages one to explore is the question, "if everything is fabricated (another way of saying it's empty) - how do one fabricate more happiness and, conversely, less needless suffering?" It is a very practical approach that require work, and not just the intellectual kind although it is certainly needed as well. The payoff, however, is impossible to exaggerate. If you prefer listening I can warmly recommend his talks from the course Meditation on Emptiness that's available for free here: www.dharmaseed.org/retreats/1044/ Or if reading is what you prefer, his book Seeing That Frees is incredible in its depth. It's also a bargain considering that it's a book that will be with you for years and years. Worldwide free shipping from www.bookdepository.com/Seeing-That-Frees-Rob-Burbea/9780992848910 Wishing you well! Adam
Car bomb is the most brutal band I’ve ever seen live. At age 32, it had me jumping off bars and swinging like I was 17
Car Bomb was the last band I've witnesseed before the onset of the pandemic.
and oh boi, these rapid time signature changes tickled my brain so hard, I was left with tears
I’m 38 and I just saw them for the first time. Couldn’t turn my neck the best day from head banging so hard haha
this is Akward Metal Rick Beato to me now
DONT @ ME
Na Rick Beato is smooth Metal Music Theory
@@metalmusictheory5401 best response
Rick Beato is the king of name dropping ...
Another incredible video. It feels good to see metal get this kind of respect; it doesn't happen nearly often enough.
Metal is sometimes not worthy of such respect, if you call Amorphis metal...
I just realized you're combining all your roles of listener, transcriber, composer, performer, academic, and video creator to bring us this incredible video. The level of detail in your analysis is just intensely satisfying :D.
Thanks!
Thank you so much!
I can only imagine the amount of time spent transcribing
Haha months and so much second-guessing
In an interview Elliot said that Greg will write the music with midi drums and then send it to him as audio only; which Elliot interprets it however he wants. He said they often disagree with what's happening within their own songs but learn to play it all together live before recording. Mike also said once the music is written he just listens to it and interprets it how he wants and sings over it.
Oh that's super interesting, I haven't seen that interview! I've talked to them a little and will talk to them a lot more when I get deeper into my dissertation work!
It's amazing how a layperson can assume Car Bomb is a Meshuggah ripoff while the whole rhythmic modulation fun / perceived fluid tempos make it like a completely different universe. Funnily enough, at the same time, I somehow tend to recommend the band as "more catchy" Meshuggah
When Centralia came out I tried to push it on anyone who would listen as "like Meshuggah and Dillinger Escape Plan had a baby," they really do stand alone until the rest of the world catches up though.
@@TheSquareOnes "like Meshuggah and Dillinger Escape Plan had a baby" i used to do the same lmao. These days Car Bomb is, well, Car Bomb. But in the Centralia/ w^w^^w^w era i really went into the Meshuggah/DEP comparison in a try to introduce my friends into this band.
I often describe CarBomb to those unfamiliar with them but familiar with Meshuggah as "writing better Meshuggah songs than Meshuggah does."
Very under-rated band IMO.
@@envirovore I wouldn't go that far, don't get me wrong Car Bomb is great but they don't have anything like Catch 33
Funny how you call them more catchy meshuggah cause I think Car Bomb is the least catchy band I’ve ever heard. Not to say they aren’t incredible, but catchy is definitely not the word I would use.
As you lead in to an example saying how "the average listener might hear...." I think every time how I'm not an average listener.
Then you break it all down and I realize just how fantastically average I am.
It makes me appreciate the music so much more.
Your work baffles me and fascinates me at the same time. What a blast!
Haha even after spending months transcribing this stuff and playing it and writing this I find myself hearing that way most of the time too! And thanks!
Dude, you’re a goddam genius lmao.
Yeah I'm impressed
And I thought I knew my music theory....
I feel like a caveman watching a video on quantum physics.
Amazing content.
Fukkin' a, brother, S+ tier research. My man lookin' sharp as hell too.
When one must ask "Tempo, yes, but for whom?" you know that music is some seriously crazy stuff.
This right here is the greatest Channel about metal composition!!!
Calder is somewhat the Neil de Grasse Tyson of Music... his shirt in this video just kinda confirmed that to me.
Absolutely phenomenal in-depth analysis of this band's innovative style. This really pieced together a lot of my fragmented thoughts about this band. When I transcribe Car Bomb songs, it's always been a struggle deciding whether or not to actually notate when the metric mods or PPT mods aren't mathematically exact (the expressive exaggeration discussed in the video). Watching this analysis made me realize that if I want to create a fully in-depth transcription of any Car Bomb song, I should include exaggeration cues, and maybe even specify what the average perceived tactus for a given section is, in the often-occurring situation where Car Bomb sheet music is more visually pleasing/readable when the meter isn't necessarily dictated by the commonly felt tactus. Thanks for your hard work.
I love the effort man. I cant imagine how long and difficult this entire project was. Your passion for Car Bomb's musical intricacy is truly beautiful. That said:
Car Bomb is soo fucking sickk dude pfffffffffff
Super sick - your visual and audio aids really help explain these complex ideas. Constantly referencing the primary material (the music itself!) is a great way of keeping the focus tight. Excellent stuff! 👌
I've just discovered your channel and am so glad you decided to talk about Car Bomb. Great stuff, man!
this is awesome dude. I'll share this channel around, you'll get popular fast with your work
This is amazing. It shows that while someone trying to learn their music, will have their own way of doing it, likely broken down into digestible parts, then pieced together.... It's way different than the band itself understands, writes, hears and plays the music. Which is levels above what most of us can understand. These guys ARE JUST at a higher level than what can be seen, even by folks who love the music. We who love Car Bomb know WELL that they're incredibly high-level, but this just shows they're even more skilled and tactful than we thought.
You are awesome, man. Not kidding, wherever you're getting your musical education, you've gleamed everything you can from it. And I have no doubt you're gonna get even better. Can't imagine what level you'll be at in just 6 months. Rhythmic Parallax, I love it. I wish I was skilled enough to coin such a term.
*Boyfriend of the account holder commenting*
wow! what an amazing video. it is really exciting to be witness to boundaries of music being pushed farther.
This puts into words (very descriptive and well thought out words) an idea I've had about rhythm and how it can sound different depending on when you start "paying attention" to a certain section of a song. Brilliant video.
Absolutely brilliant analysis - using Hasty's theory absolutely applies to Car Bomb more than most. The whole composing-to-pulse rather than to tactus is a pretty genius take
Hey professor, Earth's in the center.
Loved though the scratch the surface reference.
Here's my humble summary based on my understanding of the video:
The rhythm is so complex, it may not yield the same tempo feel to different listeners:
1. Listener: The band exploits genre conventions (cymbal hits and backbeats) to infer certain tempos, however they may be just keeping the same tempo while doing almost unpercievably longer and shorter bars (changing time signatures) or modulations (tuplets). To the "casual" listener, it sounds like the track slows down and speeds up with a wonky feel.
2. Composer: This is where all these ideas are originally mapped out. The tempo, time signature changes, and rhythmic structure are conceived to take advantage of these effects.
3. Performer: Once the track is very very rehearsed, the band forgoes a click track entirely and performs it based purely on the feel it creates. This includes the studio version and live shows.
4. Transcriber: Since every performance is slightly different, it's no use trying to get a digitally exact tempo count. One must balance between exactness, readability, and what the band may have originally intended.
Thank you for taking the time to study this and present it so well. This stuff is way more interesting that I would have thought!
Couldn't have said it better myself! Thanks for such attentive watching, and I'm glad you enjoyed!
Damn dude. I had to listen to the slowed version of the 5,4 crash accents several times to even hear it, and even then i could barely tell at speed. I'm supposed to be a drummer XD
As a drummer who can play along to Porcupine Tree for a full set, it would take me months, if not years, to figure out how to play a Car Bomb set. Elliot is just something special.
I just really love the idea of this channel, it makes me so happy any time something gets suggested to me.
In other words, "D-D-D-DJENT-DUH-DJENT"?
Thank you for introducing me to my new favorite band. This song and this video are both amazing.
Dude. This is so awesome and needs more attention. Finally someone to analyze stuff like CarBomb. Maybe you could take on Panzerballett too some time. They play around with science-level rhythmic stuff all the time, especially in their older albums.
Very well said, it's pretty clear for how complicated the subject is.
Speaking of Illusions I thought I had dust on my screen but I guess it was your shirt? Just kidding loved analysis
I started tapping my foot to the tempo and i was like damn he’s right lol
wow!! i've been a fan of Car Bomb's music for a while. so good to see someone giving such a wonderfully in-depth analysis and so precisely deconstructing what it is that seems to make their compositions so compelling. I love your focus on elevating regard towards the listener's unique experience of rhythmic tactus and how it interfaces with other perspectives at every angle like this.
what a great video! thoroughly enjoyed this work, as someone who encounters all 4 perspectives regularly ❤
This is not only great content but is a great challenge to follow. Not because of the delivery but because it is so complicated and yet so well explained, it is inherently taxing lol.
Thanks man!!
You are so awesome for transcribing this and doing this. Seriously well done, I hope the band gets to watch this.
@19:25 I want the band to include this sentence sampled into their next album!
great job, dude!
I'm shocked at how much I understood from this.
Very good job at explaining this man.
Dude you've surpassed Neeley! Outstanding break apart
I'm only here because I love Car Bomb. I literally have no idea what is happening here lol. But I certainly can appreciate the work.
Yooooooo
I'm not a musician by any stretch and i've understand probably 20% of things you describing but my mind is still got blown to pieces!
I've listen to Car Bomb for around 10 years now but never thought their music is SO FUCKING COMPLICATED
Don't know if i can call this a "study" but it was very interesting to watch and listen, thank you for your work!
They make me grin uncontrollably.....They are sooooo good..❤❤
Car Bomb also does this in Hypnotic Worm!
awesome essay, I've only had time to skim it so far but it's for one of my favorite songs right now so I'm definitely coming back to digest the whole thing. I bet this was fun to make!
I really hope you're familiar with Gavin Harrison's music and body of instructional material. He literally wrote the book "Rhythmic Illusions". He is a master of displacements and odd meters, while also being one of the most creative musicians I have ever listened to. I would highly recommend two albums he did with 05ric, 'drop' and 'circles', where you can hear in context many of the concepts he put forward in the books 'Rhythmic illusions' and 'Rhythmic Perspectives'.
Yeah someone put me onto those books a little after I did this paper, really interesting stuff! They're part of the larger article project based on this I'm (slowly) working on!
@@metalmusictheory5401 That's awesome, I figured you would have heard of that stuff already. Do you post or publish these papers online anywhere? I'd love to check them out sometime.
@@meters_and_madness my website www.calderhannan.com has everything listed with links to everything that's available online (and anything that isn't open access send me an email and I'll send it to you)
@@metalmusictheory5401 Excellent, thank you!
Super interesting and concise. cheers my dude. looking forward to more, and will certainly be referring to this in the future!
Thank you!
dude this is incredible, charting new territory in music theory
Dude you are a freak of nature genius in the best way
You're a straight up adjunct professor! Bravo sir. I'm still working on getting that square peg in the round hole, I'll get it eventually...
Not quite a professor yet, but maybe one day! Good luck!
Wow, and I thought as a "listener" I had a pretty good understanding of the techniques used by the "composer". Great work! I'll try to keep this perspective in my own writing and listening.
Thank you for getting me into a new band. These guys are fucking wicked
This was an incredible analysis. Lots of food for thought. Thank you!
Dressed real sharp man. Can't wait for your channel to blow up.
I encountered rhythm parallax when transcribing Meshuggah songs. Like when from the guitar riff repeats, when it had an additional fill, how it relates to the 4/4 beat.
"Should I transcribe this part in this time signature or this one?"
Yeah as I'm trying to turn this into an article I'm thinking about making it bigger to talk about "metric parallax"-what you hear in Meshuggah, a lot of other bands, where the question is "what is the meter?" or "where is the downbeat?"-as opposed to "rhythmic parallax," where the question is "what even is the beat/tempo?"
Great work homie! Looking forward to your future videos.
It's funny I tend to lean towards larger hyper-metrical and groove cycles of their music. I hear the riff at 5:10 as much more of a slow 4/4. Rather than thinking of it as 4+5, each bar of 9/16 acts as a quarter note. I would also argue that you could notate the 5/8 and 7/8 bars in the chorus as simply a bar of 6/4 and the groove becomes way more apparent even with all the push and pull. I think a lot of people get hung up on the in your face modulations of their music, which of course are super fun to catch, but often miss that a lot of their music often has a simpler groove underneath often in just 2/4, 4/4, or 6/4. The push and pull and lack of click track in their music throws people for a loop so they notate it as a something/16 rather than accounting for that they might just be pulling or pushing a fairly normal meter. This comes from the whole make simple complex concept of Meshuggah's music. Killin video by the way. It's cool to see people starting to take note of how badass this music really is. Interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Thanks! And for sure, I think a huge part of why their music (and Meshuggah's music) slaps so hard is because these larger background structures are there if you listen for them. There's a cool article about Meshuggah that describes how roughly speaking at their shows you have the "moshers" in the pit, who are hearing these simpler hypermetric structures, and the "counters" in the balcony, who are keeping track of all the patterns and everything (mtosmt.org/issues/mto.18.24.3/mto.18.24.3.lucas.html). The way of hearing that you're describing-the more zoomed-out approach-is definitely another perspective, another layer of this rhythmic parallax thing where you can understand these rhythms in a bunch of different ways that seem different. I guess one of the things I'm trying to do with this is show how, if you're hearing "pushing and pulling" in the tempo at that level, that can actually be accomplished by a couple different things: changes to the length of meters, tempo modulations, actual off-the-grid push and pull, etc. Have you played any of their stuff? I'd be interested to hear how this translates into drumming (I'm guessing from your username you play drums); I've played this song on guitar, but my drum chops are nowhere near good enough to pull off any of what Elliot does. But I wonder if maybe drummers tend to hear those larger structures, because you have to articulate them (with cymbals and fills, etc), more than guitarists. And then maybe singers hear the most zoomed out of everyone, because they don't have to worry so much about the micro level.
@@metalmusictheory5401 This is awesome, thank you for the response too! It's actually interesting I play bass in a band heavily influenced by Car Bomb and Meshuggah, and my drumming is mostly jazz drumming in various ensembles. My metal drumming is fairly lacking. Car bomb employs and performs rhythm very similarly to how the Miles Davis quintet plays rhythm on their album Four and more. You would probably enjoy this album quite a lot as the drummer Tony Williams plays really similarly to how Elliot Hoffman plays albeit in a totally different style of music. Lots of push and pull and illusion. I think it's why I like Car Bomb so much. When I play bass I tend to focus while learning the figures, but once that is accomplished, it's all about feeling the largest possible division, that way I don't overthink the part. Tomas Haake of Meshuggah talks about this style of playing in this awesome interview. He thinks of their music in terms of 8, 16, 32, and 64 bars. talksruclips.net/video/ba2X4r12lv4/видео.html
@@metalmusictheory5401
Here are two great interviews with Car Bomb's drummer too. You are honestly the first channel on youtube who is doing this stuff properly. A lot of people try to analyze this kind of music, but the fail as they aren't properly trained. The theory of Rhythmic Parallax makes total sense.
ruclips.net/video/dVh978qmnD8/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/UWFbT_tFz1M/видео.html
@@drumkidstu Nice! Yeah I play jazz guitar (and I love Tony Williams). The difference I see is that in almost all jazz (with the exception of a few tunes like "Joshua" and more recent stuff that have weird forms) and almost all of Meshuggah's music (with the exception of a few scattered examples like the chorus from "Demon's Name"), that background 4/4 metric / hypermetric structure never actually gets violated (if you haven't, check out my video on Meshuggah, which goes into a lot more detail about this, including about Meshuggah always saying their music is in 4/4). So in jazz and Meshuggah (and plenty of other metal), these background structures don't ever actually change (it will always be exactly 32, or 64, or 128 beats before another chorus starts or a riff repeats), even if it seems like they do for a little at a time. The difference with Car Bomb's music (and plenty of other metal) is that these background structures aren't rigid; no matter how you slice it, the chorus of "Blackened Battery" (and most sections of the song) doesn't last for an exact multiple of 4 (or 8 or 16) beats (and that's before even talking about how the tempo changes and all the wild stuff I go into in the video). So Meshuggah and jazz (to generalize a lot) play off against these rigid background hypermetric structures ("hiding" the meter, skipping around barlines, etc), while Car Bomb actually warps these background structures. Which doesn't mean it's not a good way to think about it when playing if you're flexible with your counting, just that there's a significant difference in what Meshuggah are doing and what Car Bomb are doing. Sorry for the long reply, hopefully at least some of it was intelligible...
@@metalmusictheory5401 it's perfectly intelligible. You are quite right about this. Car Bomb rarely fits their music into traditional phrase lengths. About the only portions of their music that do that I can think of off the top of my head are the opening riff on Scattered Sprites and the ending breakdown of secrets within, which also happen to be 2 of their more "straight ahead songs." Generally when I first start listening to a new song by them I immediately tend to gravitate to the parallaxes they create rhythmically. It's only after extensive listening that I can think of it in long terms of like 2/4, 4, 6/4,7 etc, or some offed up back beat 😂😂😂 and mind you that's only in certain parts. In a lot of ways their music reminds me of early 2000s autechre and Squarepusher records, where the music is literally random and has very little form at all and quite often can be grooved to and interpreted in several ways. I know Greg and Elliot really like this stuff so I am sure it's why I can hear it in their music.
Really well organized and thought-provoking analysis!
Mindblowing! Love the way you analyze this so much!!!
This is amazing! Been listening to this song on repeat since it came out.
This is the kind of content the world needs more of. Big fat sub and bell from me xxx
(2) I want you to defend this dissertation in front of the scientific community!
I have a 2 year degree in music recording, included a lot of theory, and I play in a prog band; just enough to understand what you're saying in this video.
This is really fucking cool and I really appreciate the effort you put in to transcribe and describe this!
First time listening to Car Bomb: sounds like Grunge musicians being DRUNK trying to play metal...
That interpretation means you aren't learned enough to understand car bomb lol
Some classic reggae right here!
these are amazing man. you should consider starting an online course for beginners intermediates and beyond. i would sign up for sure. peace!
Congrats on 1000 subs, I was 981 this am . I was wondering if you play any baritones 27-28 scale guitars
Cheers from Michigan
Thanks! I don't, that will be my next guitar purchase when I have some money lol! I know that's what Greg plays.
Excellent collection of information, key concepts
I love this channel so much! Keep it up!
I was worried this video would be muddled or confusing but it's amazingly clear. I want to listen to songs like "Wabi-Sabi" by Tricot and see if I can apply these ideas. This reminds me of something the guitarist of Tricot said when asked in an interview about math rock: 'I would rather say that our music is “jumbled rock”.' That could reflect the view of the listener or the performer. I think this theory could also apply to Eastern Europen folk music, which could be described with odd time signatures, or as having patterns of long and short beats. Could this also apply to David Bennett's RUclips video "Songs with Confusing Intros" or is that stretching it too far?
Definitely! And yeah his video is based (consciously or not) on that metric fakeout idea from Justin London that I cite in this, definitely the same type of thing where the band hears one thing but it's unlikely the audience hears the same way (until the drums come in)
Truly amazing work! Very interesting to watch.
This video is gods fucking work my man. Car Bomb deserved this.
Such an inciteful video. Thank you so much.
This is a fascinating analysis of a song, which I, despite being an avid fan of the band, until this point thought of as a "Metallica joke" lol
This is amazing. Hope you nailed your thesis (you obviously did).
This was truly excellent. I actually learned a lot from this.
This is awesome! 1 problem.
They dont use a click.
That scares the fuck out of me.
I know! In the last few minutes I talk about that, and when I use it before, it's more like a representation of what their internal sense of beat might be. And it is scary, especially considering how tight they are live...
Car Bomb does use a click.
The click's name is Elliot Hoffman .
This is insane lol....You are awesome for making these videos. Thank you.
Really nice work man.
Awesome work!
You got a new fan man.
Everything aside, that shirt is fucking lit my dude where did you get it? I'm genuinely curious
TIL that music is a laser firing squad wearing ear costumes, and a big box full of holes
More seriously, I'm reminded of your Catch-33 videos, which are similarly informed by listening, transcribing, and performing the music. Helps to have an analytical view of what's happening, but that can be an onramp to feeling it.
Would be curious if you feel there's a meaningful difference between the transcriber's and composer's perspectives in Meshuggah's work. It feels like they'd be the same, or at least cut from the same cloth, in a way that isn't possible for Blackened Battery given the greater flexibility in tempo. But would love to hear your expert interpretation.
An interesting question! On the one hand, everything is so rigidly on the grid in Meshuggah's music that they'll probably be about the same. But for Meshuggah there's more of the question about meter, whether to notate stuff in 4/4 or in the guitar meter or some hybrid (and people have done all those options). So still rhythmic parallax (or maybe metric parallax), but a different type. I'm working on an article submission that will take these ideas further, so I'll be thinking a lot more about it!
How come people don’t talk about this technique and there are two vids on YT on it? You can create poly-rhythm, poly-meter or even do stuff like add quarter note parallax to a time signature in an 8th note subdivision
the question now is, do others copy how how car bomb leans into how their songs are perceived by the audience or not. I ,for one, believe this is the soul reason car bomb strikes a perfect balance between its technicality and its ability to be enjoyed by your average listener.
fascinating essay.
Have you ever messed around with Spleeter? I think it would suit your presentations especially when you're looking at specific components of a passage
Ooh no I'll have to check it out, looks useful! Just been using Transcribe! and trying to isolate stuff with EQ, channel splitting, and transposition.
I swear that I know you from somewhere and I really cant put my finger on it. It’s bugging me. Did you ever live in PA?
Na, never lived in PA... based in NY for the last few years, any connection there?
@@metalmusictheory5401 - Only played a few local shows in Buffalo. I am in North Central PA and played a bunch of shows in this area. Hard to tell, not often I get hit with that familiar feeling. Anyways great content regardless keep up the awesome work!
Go to bed? Na, Rhythmic parallax is more important.
Truly amazing.
just brilliant
Wow, more videos like this!
great stuff.
You are doing God's work mate. Cheers! ^_^
That was very interesting, thanks for that. Have you presented this paper in person? I'd be interested in its reception by the wider academic music theory community. Meanwhile on RUclips, this video made a great follow-up to Yogev Gabay's analysis of Car Bomb's "The Sentinel" (ruclips.net/video/_w7qpRWQ0kQ/видео.html), in case anyone watching this hasn't seen it (yet).
Car Bomb's "unlocking" of tempo for added expression reminds me of non-equal temperament in pitch/tonality - this idea that there's a justifiable yet restrictive cage of "structure" that many listeners are largely unaware of, and through exposure/presentation via online video/RUclips you can learn to "free your mind" and appreciate more music in more detail.
And lastly, props for the .strandberg* headstock in the background!
Please put this on spotify as a podcast. Please
ooh there's an idea, I'll look into it!
@@metalmusictheory5401 please do
You should analyze The Mars Volta like this. That would be incredible to hear.
Definitely will happen!
@@metalmusictheory5401 as much of a metal head as I am. That band has played a big part in my playing and as well as my life. Thank you so much man, they are something special for sure. I cant wait to hear man. This is the approach I wish more of us could take on music! It's fun!
"Head banging creates meter"
Wonderful video, thank you! Always wondered how on earth Car Bombs music was constructed!
One way to put what you have uncovered and obviously deeply understand, is that music is empty of (or 'lack') inherent existence. That is to say that music does not exist independent of the mind in which it appears.
But what about the mind? Turns out the mind is empty (of inherent existence) as well, or put differently: the mind can not be separated from its contents.
But is it not the case that everything, every perception in one's experience, appear in the mind?
Well, yes.
All phenomena, including everything, including the self-sense, is empty. It's not that it doesn't exist - it's something much, much deeper.
Go figure, you obviously have more than enough brains for it! Or if you prefer, and I would highly suggest this, read up on improvisational-jazz-musician-turned-meditation-teacher Rob Burbea.
Let me know how it goes!
Love,
Adam
Haha that's awesome! I've just started getting into Hofstadter who (I think) is trying to answer the same type of question. I'll check out Rob Burbea.
@@metalmusictheory5401 Lovely! I've been thinking about reading Hofstadter but haven't gotten to it yet!
Rob Burbea mainly focuses on the ways in which a deep understanding of emptiness moves us toward a life of greater freedom. It really doesn't do it justice, but basically what he encourages one to explore is the question, "if everything is fabricated (another way of saying it's empty) - how do one fabricate more happiness and, conversely, less needless suffering?" It is a very practical approach that require work, and not just the intellectual kind although it is certainly needed as well. The payoff, however, is impossible to exaggerate.
If you prefer listening I can warmly recommend his talks from the course Meditation on Emptiness that's available for free here: www.dharmaseed.org/retreats/1044/
Or if reading is what you prefer, his book Seeing That Frees is incredible in its depth. It's also a bargain considering that it's a book that will be with you for years and years. Worldwide free shipping from www.bookdepository.com/Seeing-That-Frees-Rob-Burbea/9780992848910
Wishing you well!
Adam
AMAZING VIDEO!