That bit about Peter Parker is pure BS. STAN LEE HAD PETER GRADUATE HIGH SCHOOL AND GO TO COLLEGE. That happened within a couple of years of the title. He had him fall in love and suffer the loss of that love. He became friends with the high school bully, who also had grown up. Eventually Peter got his Bachelor's degree and started Grad school. ALL THIS HAPPENED IN THE 70's. The idea that Peter was supposed to be a perpetual teen/20something is bullcrap. From the beginning, he was about growing up, maturing, and moving through life. It's why the attitude is so annoying. Guys who are supposed to know the character, don't know a damn thing about the history. They only remember the period when THEY discovered the character.
In instagram or deviantart, there's this guy whose name is Andrew Runion who made a definitive timeline for the Spider-Man Cast: the cast starting from Peter Parker's era from when he appeared, then continuing an impressive take on his daughter Mayday Parker, and reaching up to the generation of Miles Morales. www.deviantart.com/arunion instagram.com/runionandrew/?hl=en
Benjamin Burke you forgot generalized jokes we all get or toss out issues 3-5. 1-2 were just bad parody comics, while 3-5 is like they tried to salvage trash into i dont know what
@@Cyber_kumo True but its not like Wikipedia of 2001 was as good as it was today....It was not as extensive and much more unreliable as anyone could edit
"Comics with a message that don't have superheroes in them don't sell!" *Bill Jemas quietly throws a sheet over the millions of sold copies of comics like Maus and Persepolos*
The J-Walker The Walking Dead. One of the most successful comics of its generation and starter of its own franchise. Image Comics. Black and white. No superheroes. Creator owned. I wonder if Jemas thinks TWD is another myth, like cats or C14 tests.
Honestly he is saying that because well they dont want others to suceed....It was all about Marvel.....I look at Mark Millar as an exmaple...he created a lot of books through Marvel's Imprint that are now going to make him very rich/already have and Marvel is seeing very little if any of it
Maus and Persepolis: The two comics that radically changed my views on the comic book medium, helping me recognize said medium's potential beyond the standard superhero stuff. They also happen to be among my top ten favorite comics/manga ever. Yeah, Bill Jemas can suck it.
Bill Jemas sacking from Marvel was a breath of fresh air for the entirety of the company (The official statement was "too hurtful to company morale"). The guy was an elitist tool who apparently made it his mission on life to piss of the Marvel staff AND fans. Unfortunately not soon enough inflict the world with Marville. I'm surprised Linkara didn't touch on all the drama that Jemas has caused during his time as Vice President of Marvel. Though I guess the total fail each issue of Marville was more than enough material to fill up an episode.
so I just googled bill jemas and guess what I found out? He's the reason epic comics failed! yeah! his big idea to inspire new creators? it fell apart because none of those creators wanted to work with him, when he kept meddling with their stories to make HIS ideas fit!
@@anthonyrodriguez1119 From reading up it sounds like what led to his downfall was trying to push unsellable ideas to the Marvel movie brand ...I think he may have tried to get Marville made into a MOVIE
"If carnivores saw herbivores as family, they'd stop eating herbivores and starve to death!" You know, Lewis already said it, but..."Bill Jemas, you make SCIENCE CRY!"
beneil2 when two people love each other, they have a kid. When two siblings love each other they have a kid, and that kid is likely to have physical or mental issues due to how similar the genes of the siblings are. Like Bill Jemnas! That was the joke! Get it?
I like how it called stuff like the Grey Hulk bad, even though that's actually considered one of the best examples of the Hulk mythos. Or saying it's stupid to have Doc Ock's arms be made from Adimantium. Because why build on lore to better explain how and why it works? It's not like that's something most stories with large worlds do-OH WAIT.
I guess Bill Jemas was like John O'Donnell (Central Park Media: Anime)... Seriously, was every dude who owned a company that spiteful against like... EVERY-FUCKING-ONE! This is like a mix of Donald Trump and Bateman (American Psycho) who are hold big companies while doing questionably awful practices to cash out and leave us with a prolonged bad taste in our mouth...
Well, I don't know the ORIGINAL comic reason for Dock Ock's arms, but if it was anything like why he needed them in Spider-Man 2, being comprised of Adamantium would make perfect sense, as that would explain how they're impervious to the heat (okay, well, magnetism though, considering how Magneto vs Wolverine always goes; I'd say Vibranium might work by being non-ferrous, but Cap clearly uses magnets to retrieve his shield in the opening scene of Avengers Age of Ultron).
@Eric Cornett It's worth noting that Cap's shield isn't 100% Vibranium and actually has trace ammounts of Adamantium in it. Admittedly, this most likely isn't true in the MCU because of the whole Fox thing, and is thus irrelevant to the Age of Ultron example you gave, but I thought it was worth sharing nonetheless.
28:10 "You can try one of the indie publishers, but they can't afford coloring or coated paper, so your graphic story won't look very good." Keven Eastman and Peter Laird, the creators of TMNT would like a word with you...
+Shinobi Pizza Yeah, and I'm reading their comics! I LOVE EM! AND most of the comicbooks I've read are indie comics, like Adam Warren's Empowered (Which is in black and white inking but EXCEPTIONALLY GREAT!)
You wanna know what's funny about that dumb quote? In the first Marville review, when Linkara gave "praise" for the "parody/joke" comic for being *in* *color*, He jokes how that was his problem with another comic: Bimbos in Time. "If the Dinosaur was poop was in color, I would've loved it!" This is what I REALLY *HATE*: All that effort for a vanity project just to cause aggro and jerk off their egos upon everyone.
"He aged, he got married, he got boring. Then we all looked surprised when teen stopped reading Spider-Man books." I call BULLSHIT on that one Marvel. Has it occurred to you that maybe sales declined because of the God-Damned speculator boom or the wretched Clone Saga that you stretched out from a convoluted mess to an even more convoluted mess that lasted over four years. Do you ever think of THAT? NIMRODS!
Yeah I admit as a MASSIVE fan of the character (since he was my first superhero after ll) That is such a LOOOOOOAAAAADDDD! One More Day could have worked in concept, IF they did shit like Lewis suggested, namely, why the ever loving fuck wasn't Mary Jane shot? again! Bigger tragedy and more understandable than loosing someone who's just gonna die in a short time due to her age. and no I don't care about a meta perspective, that is still stupid as hell!
He’ll I’m even more offended because I’m 21 and still find it at least relatable that Peter has some of the same issues. Oh and this and One More Day are especially gauling due to how two of the most popular pieces of Spider-Man media, Into the Spider-Verse and the Insomniac game, have Peter as a young adult (if not just straight up adult) and they’re still pretty damn popular amping the younging
25:35 Honestly I couldn't even believe that was the actual end. That this comic's head would be so far up it's ass that they think the bad sales are coming from so called illiterate morons....when said comic itself was made on a goddamn bet! Seriously, your immediate rant after this was the highlight of the episode.
+ClassicLuigiFan I agree. I try to hit "like" on most videos I watch to support the creators, but as I watched this I unliked it. However, I did watch it through, and his rant is in deed the best part.
Al: Readers should love their heroes but not get too hung up on the stories the writers make up about them. Me: HOW!? No seriously. How am I supposed to love a character if I don’t enjoy the STORY HE IS IN. Because let’s face it, his backstory, personality, his LITERAL EVERYTHING is NOTHING BUT THE STORY. Part of me wants to ask Bill Jemas what the hell he even meant. If he means that we shouldn’t get hung up on plot holes, then get an editor, AND EDIT THE STORY SO THAT THERE ARE NO PLOTHOLES. If there are leaps in logic, because you don’t know how evolution works, EITHER UNDERSTAND IT, OR DON’T WRITE ABOUT SOMETHING YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT.
We live in an age where people honest to goodness argue that plot holes are not bad writing and that subverting audience expectations are more important than continuity or telling a cohesive story. Bill Jemas was, in some ways, ahead of his time...
Ok, here's an idea: Marville but with Bill Nye the science guy. Every time the characters say something stupid or wrong, Bill stops to correct them. It might take a few years to get past the 1st issues, but if it helps to remove ignorance from the world, I'm all for it Also, when Louis yells Period, I keep thinking about a woman's period for some reason
While the answer is probably "The person who wrote this is insane" it is very odd to me that on one page of issue 5 they specifically denounce the concept of inter-species breeding as being the stuff of fantasy but then the crux of the wolverine thing is that he is able to facilitate the apparently impossible interspecies breeding with the neanderthals I am more than surprised my hands didn't recoil in protest and wrap around my throat due to me typing this out, the fact information about Marville exists in my head now when that space could have been used for literally anything else is a shame. if all copies of this comic ceased to exist I am sure there would be a noticeable up tick on the Human Development Index
Ah, at last, we come to the end of Marville. The whole series was an experience I doubt any of us will soon forget. Bill Jemas, I don't know what was running through your head while doing this, and quite frankly, I don't think I want to know. You turn the final REAL issue into a recap, blame us, the viewers, for the series not doing well because we 'didn't understand', and turn the final issue into the submissions guidelines for Epic Comics with no connection to Marville at all...Honestly, I'm not even surprised anymore.
Here's a fine example of how to satire comic book tropes and company policies. Have the main character be a super hero whose power has more value as a negotiator, and that everyone from the goons to the cops to the supervillains keep expecting fistfights. Suddenly, the standard policy of "fighting" crime seems goofy. Have the main character constantly have his suit torn up and be practically naked every time, but his mask is never touched, so nobody can figure out who he is, but a large portion of his paycheck goes to sewing and stuff. Suddenly you have a satire of fan service, and how goofy secret identities are. Have the main character's civilian identity be a comic artist or writer, and try to have his own superhero exploits turned into comics, but he can't get his foot in the door or have enough funding to make quality comics.
Working to become a biology professor, hoping someday to teach one of my favorite classes vertebrate zoology and paleontology. If I ever I do I want to some how work some of these into my lectures, especially the issue with Snorts. Because yeah oddly enough while most of our lecture time was spent on ray and lobe finned fishes, we did take some time out to talk dinosaurs. We had a discussion on whether or not they were warm blooded and how we could reach a conclusion based on looking at their relatives. I think they'd get a good laugh over the spine-thing and how evolution doesn't work.
You know what I thought of? They made fun in the first issue that Ted Turner owned "Dad's Comic Company" but they sucked and didn't publish anything good. What if the comic editor Al was pitching to was Ted Turner and "DCC"? That would have allowed a good way to wrap up the series by bringing things full circle, and allowed plenty of humor from Al's own dad shooting down his comic idea and not believing his story. It would be genuinely creative and funny... oh wait, no wonder Jemas didn't think of it.
those who saw my comment on the last marville review might remember that I theorized that jack was not god, but a reality warping trickster, akin to mxysptlk, Q or discord, and made up everything in the last issues to screw with the main characters. with that in mind, here's how I would end marville, not with trying to pitch a comic, but with all staging a speech at the united nations. imagine it, all calling together large numbers of reporters, world leaders, and some of the worlds top super heroes together, to hear a huge speech.what they all see next is the first clue to the stupidity and insanity to come. you see up on the podium are Mickey dressed in spider-man themed lingere ( like the lady on the cover), Lucy dressed as a party clown, and al naked as a jay bird, completely coated in honey, and while he gives his speech, Mickey and Lucy take turns using paddles to spank his honey-glazed ass. ( aww come on, its no less stupid than what happened in the actual comic!!) when the heroes naturally ask why the hell they doing that, all explains "jack said we had to, it would help get our message across":( . so after the world sees a naked guy covered in honey who claims to be Ted turner's son from 3000 years in the future, being paddled by a woman spider-lingere and a clown, say that a black man who may be god, a talking Jewish dinosaur named snorts, and wolverene, the father of humanity who evolved from an otter, told him the key to world peace is to stop caring about politics, religion, the economy, or society in general, and just have a worldwide orgy, the story ends the way it should have. with al, Mickey, and Lucy being dragged away to an insane asylum("but we swear to jack, the duckbills did talk to us, and they were JEWISH!!!!" zapping noises"AAAAAH!!!"). and the comic ends showing jack in the audience, laughing his ass off!! :)
I got a good laugh out of your description of the absurd actions that the characters engage in and then justify it as being no less stupid than what happened in the actual comic, because it's so damn true. Your entire alternate ending for Marville is brilliant, but the idea of Al being covered in honey and paddled by the ladies in silly outfits as part of a United Nations speech especially kills me.
How to make Marville better 1. Destroy any and all traces of it/never existing to begin with 2. Kept it a parody of the comic book industry 3. Left it as one issue
I like how you used a cover of Bohemian Rhapsody instead of the original. Queen doesn't deserve to be as low as this crap comic. Suicide Squad joke goes here.
I've just noticed an issue with the ending of issue 6 that I'm surprised that you didn't mention Linkara (HUGE fan by the way) Cant say I blame you though, there is so much wrong with this series as it is.....That and all the alcohol you had to drink to get through this. Anyways, Al is rich(And a dumb ass but that's besides the point) Like, Millionaire rich....Are we supposed to buy that he couldn't publish his comic ANYWHERE? Like, he couldn't get ANY comic company to publish it? Seriously? He's got plenty of money to make it happen. Pay those comic book company's enough, and I'm sure ONE of them will publish his horrible piece of crap. But, honestly, should we have expected any less? Its Marville, one of the worst comics ever. Thank god its over.
+Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall Holy crap, you actually respond.....Must not.....faint. Must...Not....fai- *faints* Thanks though, that made my whole night. Would it be ok if I ask you a quick question then, its one ive wanted to ask you for a bit. You like super hero comics, and you seem to like certain anime from what ive seen, or atleast make references to it......Have you seen one punch man? Its a anime all about a superhero. If so, do you like it? Sorry if this is inconvenient, You dont have to answer if you dont want to. Ive just wanted to know this for a while.
+Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall You should definitely check One Punch Man out. It deals with a hero so powerful his biggest problem is actually getting a fight he has a chance of losing. It has huge "That's friggin awesome!" moments as well as things that you can make fun of, enjoy!
Yep. But at least I'd look at a comic book about (20)90s kid traveling to the past to be a hero and discover the meaning of life. It'd be stupid still but the dialogue would be less insufferable.
One thing I actually like about the letter from Bill Jemes is that his finale line before his signing off was “Hijinks to follow”. I think that’s actually rather chuckle-worthy and kind of adorable.
Me after the Warrior review: "Man, this is the most insane idiotic thing I've ever read. Comics can't get worse than this" Me after the STSF review: "MAn, that was the most inane and insulting and awful comic I've ever heard of. They can't get worse than this": Me after the Marville reviews: ♫I'VE GOT A BRAND NEW COMBINE HARVESTER AND I'LL GIVE YOU THE KEY♫
Incredible that Grant Morrison has written NUMEROUS stories about the monomyth, shamanistic themes in life and stories, and strange mysticism and done VERY well. Possibly because he never has characters stand on an almost literal soapbox and lecture the customer about what a moron they are.
See I think Marville #7 is the most improved comic ever made because it has almost none of the failings of the previous six issues. Which is truly remarkable because I don't think it really has any positive aspects whatsoever.
"He aged, he got married, he got boring." No. No. No. All the no's. The problem was not that he was aging, married, or having a kid. The problem was that the writing was bad. This is the problem with companies these days. They hardly admit their own mistakes. They instead blame their loss of money on other things like the readers or characters growing up. Marvel and DC, instead of rebooting your universe every 5 seconds, maybe you should focus on WRITING GOOD STORIES!
and if Renew Your Vows was an attempt to prove that debacle was necessary guess what it backfired, because the moment MJ dawned that red and white spider outfit and called herself Spinneret for the first time, any need for "that story" evaporated and any attempts by the writers and editors to continue to say it was necessary comes across as excuses for being lazy and and uncreative because in one panel you fixed everything you claimed made "that story" necessary.
In fact, I would argue that the EXACT OPPOSITE is the problem (along with the bad writing): That while he's PHYSICALLY aging... He's neither MENTALLY or EMOTIONALLY aging. Refusing to move the character in any direction and have him learn, they've effectively made him a judgemental teenager in an adult's body, still reacting and talking as a Teenager would.
After the first two issues I would have said that Marville isn't good but all in all pretty harmless. They are forgetable but I wouldn't put them on any worst-lists (or at least not high). But man, the rest is just incoherent pseudo-scientific preaching on a level that is incredulous to me. Well at least the artwork isn't bad (except the third...).
Pseudoscience? Don’t be ridiculous. Pseudoscience has some internal logic to grab onto. Might not be based in reality, but there is some coherent train of thought.
Linkara you really tore this crap the size of Mt. Everest a new one. Good job and keep up the good work. But why didn't you at least throw it in the trash like you did with Marvel Ultimates?
*Spoilers for Neon Genesis Evangelion* So I haven't watched this series in a while and something occurred to me this time around. Marville is kind of like a bizarro version of Neon Genesis Evangelion. Think about it, both start as kind of deconstructionist satire of their respective genres, NGE being more focused on the serious implications of mecha tropes but even while its satire wasn't always that funny, at least you could understand the joke behind things like PenPen, where Marville's satire is all over the place and its impossible to tell what point it's trying to make. Both then become philosophical treatises on the nature of life, however where NGE is often hailed as possibly one of the greatest works of storytelling art, Marville is universally reviled. This is interesting because they have a lot of similarities. First, both are kind of debates between two different viewpoints. Creationism and Evolution with Marville and Eros and Thanatos with NGE. However, while NGE ultimately falls more on the Eros side, it points out how Eros can go horribly wrong and why Thanatos is so attractive to some people. Marville just goes, "Creationism is right!" at the end. Both deal with the fact that life can only continue through the destruction of other life, however where Marville mourns the destruction of molecules, ugh... Evangelion's message here is about how it sucks that it's often necessary for humans to kill EACH OTHER in order to survive. I don't think Kaworu's statement that "The thread of human hope is spun with the flecks of sorrow" would be as impactful if behind him were two amoebas fighting... Both have extremely questionable science but unlike Marville, NGE doesn't base its philosophy on its science but uses it as a metaphor for its philosophy and human psychology. NGE has a similar sounding statement to the whole animals don't kill members of their own species in the line "Human beings are the only creature capable of hating their own species" however while I'm not entirely sure that is true it is a lot more plausible than animals not killing each other since that is obviously untrue and while animals may kill each other for a number of reasons, most of them probably don't hate each other but are simply acting on instinct. In addition that line is also supposed to be a metaphor for self-loathing which is even more plausible than its apparent meaning. Marville brings up the whole parental issues thing but insists its just that its a way of ensuring biological diversity even though I'm pretty sure that's not how animals work and it is no longer necessary for humans. NGE illustrates that parental issues often stem from the fact that they are flawed human beings who make mistakes and that we can't always appreciate why they make the decisions they do because we don't have their perspective or experiences. Both get rather meta at the end, but with NGE the point is for the message to transcend the story it is in rather than showing how "clever" the writer is. Both have weird sexual aspects but with NGE its because sex is used as a metaphor for human interaction and the desire for unity which creates incestual overtones, whereas in Marville it goes nowhere beyond "wouldn't it be better if we all just had sex?" and seems mostly fetish material. Both have a set of three characters, one male and two female with the women being representatives of the extremes of the debate with the male being in the middle. However, in NGE there were reasons why all three characters felt the way they did beyond "one believes in god and the other is an atheist" Both have an additional ending wherein the creator reacts to negative fan reaction. However, where Marville is just whining about how readers didn't like or buy the book because they just want violence and they don't "get it." End of Evangelion has a legitimate issue with some fans given the fact that they sent death threats to Gainax and Anno. And even though EOE called this out it was still sympathetic to the audience proxy of Shinji despite some of the things he does. Most importantly, where Marville gives an extremely oversimplified answer, that all we have to do is stop believing in things and have sex. Evangelion (while the end of EoTV is rather simplistic, EOE makes the same point in a much more nuanced way) doesn't give an easy answer. There are no easy answers but life is preferable to death because at least with life there is a chance for happiness and that there are no easy ways to reconcile our differences with other people and that all we can do is try to love and understand each other even though that may be ultimately impossible. The question that occurs here is, how does a person (Anno) who has no scholastic background in philosophy or psychology can create something that explores those ideas in ways that is beloved by many when someone who does have a scholastic background in philosophy (Jemas) creates something exploring similar ideas in a way that is universally reviled. There are of course many reasons, but I think one of the most important is that unlike Jemas, Anno had actual experience with a central aspect of what he was exploring, depression and the existential questions that result from it. Hell, given some of what happens in NGE, one could argue that Anno may have had a mystical experience similar to Eckhart Tolle's. Other than getting high and watching the discovery channel, I doubt Jemas had any personal experience with what he was talking about. I just find it fascinating how many of the same ideas and methods can be used but one can be great and the other crap, it just goes to show that a big part of conveying wisdom is in the details of how you convey it.
Rewatching the Marville reviews in 2019, possibly as some subconscious form of self-punishment. So, here's what I got: -Superheroes and comic books are the most important and pure word of god to ever exist, but also, the stories don't matter that much. -Scientists don't know what they're talking about and Charles Darwin was an idiot, but evolution and natural selection still occurred. -Wolverine was the first man, but Jesus was the first superhero. Wow, Bill Jemas' work can't even agree with itself.
+Mike White Technically he didn't. One issue was reviewed by the hologram. If it didn't drink up 1/5 of the total alcohol in these reviews, then maybe he wouldn't have walked away in one piece.
You know, I just realized you missed a chance to mock the fact that once again, Wolverine was on a cover of a comic book he had no part/Little part in. But then again Marville at this point seems to be detached from any sort of context the cover provides, so much so THAT WOLVERINE PUBLICITY FOR SOME REASON ACTUALLY HAD CONTEXT THIS TIME. I have a headache.
I want to remind people of the Carboniferous Period, and not because that is where the bulk of fossil fuels originated. I want people to remember the GIANT SPIDERS.
Wouldn't "The Unfunnies" be a more accurate Serbian Film counterpart for the comic industry. Holy Terror is either the "An American Carol" of the comic industry or the comic book equivalent of a Dinesh's D'Souza bowel movement.
Al: That's the whole point of the story. Readers should love their heroes, but not get too hung up on the stories that writers make up about them. My only response to this line is to shove my middle fingers out so goddamn far. What's the point of reading those stories if we're not supposed to connect to any of them!?! Go to the depths of Hades foul fiend! God, I feel unclean just copying that shit.
I just realized. This comic ends on sort of a downer note. God himself says AL Mickey and Lucy are the ones to stop World War 3. And AL says his comic pitch is to spread world peace. Since the editor rejected the comic idea, does that mean that in the context of Marville, World War 3 is going to happen?
So glad Marville is over. Thank you for taking the time to type up Ruminations, I love knowing what was going on at the time of the original creation of the review. It helpa emphasis just how much work you pour into the episodes.
23:20 I guess that the Zulu and neighboring tribes sort of did this until Shaka came along, they would toss spears, rocks and their own feces at each other until one side surrendered and they took whatever was agreed upon. People died but it was pretty low casualty.
Forgot to mention that Neanderthals breeding with our species was proposed in the 1930S! And yes, recently we have genetic proof from 2006's genetic study of Neanderthal DNA, but guess who found that out? SCIENTISTS!
Still trying to parse the question at 19:50. Is he implying there was no mass extinctions before the dinosaurs when it was TWO mass extinctions 60 million years apart that led to dinosaurs becoming the dominant land animals? Why is he complaining about "God's" timing when he should be complaining about God not stopping the impact since a being who can create life should in all reason be able to change the course of comets?
Bill is fucking up exactly "why", (no surprises there) but he is correct that many hunters, both ancient and modern, make sacrifices or prayers thanking living creatures for giving their life so that the hunter can continue to live.
Jemas seems to consistently confuse some disparite tribal traditions as exactly what all early man would have practiced, and not the byproduct of a lot of generations adapting their behavior to changing societal and environmental pressures. Basically, he made the error that because a population didn't develop technology as much as others, it must be as primitive in all other aspects.
Ok, there are a few things here that the comic _almost_ gets right (on the order of the whole neanderthal interbreeding thing, so yeah you have to squint pretty hard), and Linkara doesn't seem to be aware of. So, to give some of the ideas Jemas s--- all over their due chance: 1) Ritualized warfare, to varying degrees, has been pretty common throughout human history (though obviously not universal, and anyone who claims that total war is a recent phenomenon obviously never observed chimpanzee troupe politics), and tends to break down mostly when a new cultural group enters the area who "doesn't know the rules". My favorite demonstration of the dichotomy is that the ancestral Bantu language has two words for warfare, approximately "arrow warfare", fought between related villages at a designated time and place and ended when the point had been made (usually first blood), and "fire warfare" usually fought between foreign groups, and consisting of razing villages, terror tactics, and up to full scale slaughter. The first was intended to defuse conflicts in a relatively peaceful manner, whereas the latter was about driving the other people out entirely. 2) Shakier ground, but my understanding is that the "showing compassion for all living things by killing them" thing is usually closer to "recognizing that killing for food is both wrong and necessary, and so offering remorse and recompense for the act". At the very least, honoring the hunted is pretty common in human societies as well (New World and New Guinea at least), often in the form of honoring a god/spirit who was considered to be the master or mother of the prey species.
24:24 was the best clip used. Now excuse me while I go and ask God for forgiveness because this comic is so terrible, it was probably made by Satan or some force of evil because damn it my head hurts and I felt physical pain from this. Bad science, bad editing, bad art, bad everything. WHY GOD?! WHY?!!!!
I realize I'm late to the party, just a little bit, with this episode but about the whole "#7 is just the Epic submission guidelines" thing. I'll bet plenty of potential female creators looked at that cover and said "Yep, this is just the program I need to get my stories out there". (I hope it's obvious that this is sarcasm)
31:47 Bill completely misses the main theme of the Dark Phoenix Saga here; it's the classic _With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility_ , not about mutants replacing humans.
The big irony about Marville is that not only was Peter David's run on Captain Marvel successful and pretty much the winner of the U-Decide event, but he's continued to enjoy a pretty successful 20 year or so run at Marvel, while Bill Memes resigned and hasn't really made any other notable contributions since then, leaving this series as the thing he's most well known for. There's a moral in all of this, but darn if I know what it is.
You know, I feel like on midsts of all the terrible writing, art, and plot we forget one simple fact: Bill Jemas is a fully grown adult. And despite that fact, the final two issues of his miniseries are Bill flailing his arms and throwing a temper tantrum about how the comic buying public is too stupid to understand his brilliant work of art. Even if that was the case, like Marville was some great work of “fact” I guess, and nobody bought it even despite that, ending the series like that is the most moronic thing a writer can do.
Technically it is the readers fault that the comic didn't do well. After all they didn't buy the comic. They didn't buy it because it sucks and is absolutely awful but they didn't buy it. He is still an absolute prick but he's right. But if he wanted it to do better he should have just written it better. But that would be to hard now wouldn't it.
'The tribes did not hate eachother'... uhh, they wouldn't care. If it had come to fighting, they would be all too happy to kill each other over the food/water/territory they were fighting for.
>artists remember what was on the future TV in the first issue of Marville >but they don't remember that Mickey was wearing red flats, not hiking boots, seen as late as the *previous damn issue of Marville*. Simply amazing. XD
By the way... not sure if I already mentioned this, but we have about 1%-4% of genetic material from Neanderthals in the general population. Crossbreeding DID happen. So another thing that's factually wrong in the comics.
8 лет назад+1
foxman105 Not to mention genetic material from other hominid species. In fact, the only group of humans on Earth that are still genetically 100% human are indigenous Africans.
As a mostly lifelong resident of the Rutgers/Princeton area, comparing them usually means you're implying the Rutgers student is an idiot. During Rocky Horror, during he dinner scene, the local line when Rocky grabs the meat in his hands to devour it, the local line was, "Rocky, eat like a civilized Rutgers student!" "No such thing!" And now you've just said the writer WAS Rutgers student, so... who even knows.
That bit about Peter Parker is pure BS. STAN LEE HAD PETER GRADUATE HIGH SCHOOL AND GO TO COLLEGE. That happened within a couple of years of the title. He had him fall in love and suffer the loss of that love. He became friends with the high school bully, who also had grown up. Eventually Peter got his Bachelor's degree and started Grad school. ALL THIS HAPPENED IN THE 70's.
The idea that Peter was supposed to be a perpetual teen/20something is bullcrap. From the beginning, he was about growing up, maturing, and moving through life. It's why the attitude is so annoying. Guys who are supposed to know the character, don't know a damn thing about the history. They only remember the period when THEY discovered the character.
In instagram or deviantart, there's this guy whose name is Andrew Runion who made a definitive timeline for the Spider-Man Cast: the cast starting from Peter Parker's era from when he appeared, then continuing an impressive take on his daughter Mayday Parker, and reaching up to the generation of Miles Morales.
www.deviantart.com/arunion
instagram.com/runionandrew/?hl=en
@Carl Rood I agree!
Indeed. Originally, the Marvel Universe operated in real time. Then the characters became too marketable, and the _status quo_ became God.
@@Duragizer8775 More like a curse and yoke.
Which is why one more day happened
How Marville could have been better:
1.) Consulting Wikipedia.
2.) Never existing.
Yup, that's all I got.
Benjamin Burke you forgot generalized jokes we all get or toss out issues 3-5. 1-2 were just bad parody comics, while 3-5 is like they tried to salvage trash into i dont know what
Wikipedia didn't exist at the time sadly.
FilmGeekofDoom Wikipedia started in January 2001, Marville came out in 2002. Yes, Jemas could have checked Wikipedia while working on it.
No offense but I don't think the first one counts. Nothing could make Marville better, it was destined to be horrible.
@@Cyber_kumo True but its not like Wikipedia of 2001 was as good as it was today....It was not as extensive and much more unreliable as anyone could edit
"Comics with a message that don't have superheroes in them don't sell!" *Bill Jemas quietly throws a sheet over the millions of sold copies of comics like Maus and Persepolos*
I've actually read Maus, and it was pretty engaging and worthwhile reading.
The J-Walker The Walking Dead. One of the most successful comics of its generation and starter of its own franchise.
Image Comics. Black and white. No superheroes. Creator owned.
I wonder if Jemas thinks TWD is another myth, like cats or C14 tests.
Honestly he is saying that because well they dont want others to suceed....It was all about Marvel.....I look at Mark Millar as an exmaple...he created a lot of books through Marvel's Imprint that are now going to make him very rich/already have and Marvel is seeing very little if any of it
Maus and Persepolis: The two comics that radically changed my views on the comic book medium, helping me recognize said medium's potential beyond the standard superhero stuff. They also happen to be among my top ten favorite comics/manga ever.
Yeah, Bill Jemas can suck it.
Looks at Japan and it's myriad of successful manga with decades spanning franchises and readerships in the millions.
Bill Jemas sacking from Marvel was a breath of fresh air for the entirety of the company (The official statement was "too hurtful to company morale"). The guy was an elitist tool who apparently made it his mission on life to piss of the Marvel staff AND fans. Unfortunately not soon enough inflict the world with Marville.
I'm surprised Linkara didn't touch on all the drama that Jemas has caused during his time as Vice President of Marvel. Though I guess the total fail each issue of Marville was more than enough material to fill up an episode.
SF Debris probably has touched upon that issue...
so I just googled bill jemas and guess what I found out? He's the reason epic comics failed! yeah! his big idea to inspire new creators? it fell apart because none of those creators wanted to work with him, when he kept meddling with their stories to make HIS ideas fit!
nonspiderweb
wow
every time I hear about this guy his ego finds a new way to impress me
@@anthonyrodriguez1119 From reading up it sounds like what led to his downfall was trying to push unsellable ideas to the Marvel movie brand ...I think he may have tried to get Marville made into a MOVIE
@@d4peters86 not possible even all the stupidity in the world would not add that high
This guy sounds like Chris Chan if Chris Chan actually had some power.
@@d4peters86 Oh, you innocent soul.
Bill Jemes: DC Comics tend to avoid publishing anything that actually says anything.
Alan Moore: I am a joke to you?
I mean that is something he sure as hell thinks the industry thinks about him at this point.
"If carnivores saw herbivores as family, they'd stop eating herbivores and starve to death!" You know, Lewis already said it, but..."Bill Jemas, you make SCIENCE CRY!"
beneil2 when two people love each other, they have a kid. When two siblings love each other they have a kid, and that kid is likely to have physical or mental issues due to how similar the genes of the siblings are. Like Bill Jemnas! That was the joke! Get it?
If any scientist saw this comic(like Dr. Linksano), they would definitely flip off every page in the book.
“If carnivores saw herbivores as family, they’d stop eating herbivores and starve to death!”
... no. A lot carnivores are down for cannibalism.
@@nicodemusedwards6931 I think ocelots at least eat their own young if they have to, as do wolves from memory.
And to borrow another quote from Lewis, "Bill Jemas, you are a GODDAMN IDIOT!! PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!"
I like how it called stuff like the Grey Hulk bad, even though that's actually considered one of the best examples of the Hulk mythos. Or saying it's stupid to have Doc Ock's arms be made from Adimantium. Because why build on lore to better explain how and why it works? It's not like that's something most stories with large worlds do-OH WAIT.
I guess Bill Jemas was like John O'Donnell (Central Park Media: Anime)... Seriously, was every dude who owned a company that spiteful against like... EVERY-FUCKING-ONE! This is like a mix of Donald Trump and Bateman (American Psycho) who are hold big companies while doing questionably awful practices to cash out and leave us with a prolonged bad taste in our mouth...
Well, I don't know the ORIGINAL comic reason for Dock Ock's arms, but if it was anything like why he needed them in Spider-Man 2, being comprised of Adamantium would make perfect sense, as that would explain how they're impervious to the heat (okay, well, magnetism though, considering how Magneto vs Wolverine always goes; I'd say Vibranium might work by being non-ferrous, but Cap clearly uses magnets to retrieve his shield in the opening scene of Avengers Age of Ultron).
Peter David created The Joe Fixit Grey Hulk, that is why Bill Jemes insulted it. Even though Peter David’s run on the hulk was MASSIVELY SUCCESSFUL!!!
@Eric Cornett It's worth noting that Cap's shield isn't 100% Vibranium and actually has trace ammounts of Adamantium in it.
Admittedly, this most likely isn't true in the MCU because of the whole Fox thing, and is thus irrelevant to the Age of Ultron example you gave, but I thought it was worth sharing nonetheless.
28:10 "You can try one of the indie publishers, but they can't afford coloring or coated paper, so your graphic story won't look very good."
Keven Eastman and Peter Laird, the creators of TMNT would like a word with you...
+Shinobi Pizza Yeah, and I'm reading their comics! I LOVE EM! AND most of the comicbooks I've read are indie comics, like Adam Warren's Empowered (Which is in black and white inking but EXCEPTIONALLY GREAT!)
+Shinobi Pizza Not to mention the countless mangas that didn't have all-color issues, too.
Buzzing Sign Diner OMG, why didn't I think of that!? XD
Fuck Bill Jemas
You wanna know what's funny about that dumb quote?
In the first Marville review, when Linkara gave "praise" for the "parody/joke" comic for being *in* *color*, He jokes how that was his problem with another comic: Bimbos in Time. "If the Dinosaur was poop was in color, I would've loved it!"
This is what I REALLY *HATE*: All that effort for a vanity project just to cause aggro and jerk off their egos upon everyone.
"He aged, he got married, he got boring. Then we all looked surprised when teen stopped reading Spider-Man books." I call BULLSHIT on that one Marvel. Has it occurred to you that maybe sales declined because of the God-Damned speculator boom or the wretched Clone Saga that you stretched out from a convoluted mess to an even more convoluted mess that lasted over four years. Do you ever think of THAT? NIMRODS!
Yeah I admit as a MASSIVE fan of the character (since he was my first superhero after ll) That is such a LOOOOOOAAAAADDDD! One More Day could have worked in concept, IF they did shit like Lewis suggested, namely, why the ever loving fuck wasn't Mary Jane shot? again! Bigger tragedy and more understandable than loosing someone who's just gonna die in a short time due to her age. and no I don't care about a meta perspective, that is still stupid as hell!
He’ll I’m even more offended because I’m 21 and still find it at least relatable that Peter has some of the same issues. Oh and this and One More Day are especially gauling due to how two of the most popular pieces of Spider-Man media, Into the Spider-Verse and the Insomniac game, have Peter as a young adult (if not just straight up adult) and they’re still pretty damn popular amping the younging
Also maybe you had less teens reading because those teen… try to stay with me… ALSO got older and became adults
Hey dont forget Sins past .....oh wait right nobody wants to hear about that one .
25:35 Honestly I couldn't even believe that was the actual end. That this comic's head would be so far up it's ass that they think the bad sales are coming from so called illiterate morons....when said comic itself was made on a goddamn bet! Seriously, your immediate rant after this was the highlight of the episode.
+ClassicLuigiFan I agree. I try to hit "like" on most videos I watch to support the creators, but as I watched this I unliked it. However, I did watch it through, and his rant is in deed the best part.
@BadPeople1100 And if you hate the Iceman and America series, then you're REALLY bigoted!
Pretty sure a lot of that word vomit was just Bill Jemas being salty about losing his bet with Peter David.
I do love how Linkara screamed "YOU SANTIMONIOUS SACK OF FECES" at the end. Imma save that for an argument.
Al: Readers should love their heroes but not get too hung up on the stories the writers make up about them.
Me: HOW!?
No seriously. How am I supposed to love a character if I don’t enjoy the STORY HE IS IN. Because let’s face it, his backstory, personality, his LITERAL EVERYTHING is NOTHING BUT THE STORY. Part of me wants to ask Bill Jemas what the hell he even meant.
If he means that we shouldn’t get hung up on plot holes, then get an editor, AND EDIT THE STORY SO THAT THERE ARE NO PLOTHOLES. If there are leaps in logic, because you don’t know how evolution works, EITHER UNDERSTAND IT, OR DON’T WRITE ABOUT SOMETHING YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT.
We live in an age where people honest to goodness argue that plot holes are not bad writing and that subverting audience expectations are more important than continuity or telling a cohesive story. Bill Jemas was, in some ways, ahead of his time...
Ok, here's an idea:
Marville but with Bill Nye the science guy. Every time the characters say something stupid or wrong, Bill stops to correct them.
It might take a few years to get past the 1st issues, but if it helps to remove ignorance from the world, I'm all for it
Also, when Louis yells Period, I keep thinking about a woman's period for some reason
While the answer is probably "The person who wrote this is insane" it is very odd to me that on one page of issue 5 they specifically denounce the concept of inter-species breeding as being the stuff of fantasy but then the crux of the wolverine thing is that he is able to facilitate the apparently impossible interspecies breeding with the neanderthals
I am more than surprised my hands didn't recoil in protest and wrap around my throat due to me typing this out, the fact information about Marville exists in my head now when that space could have been used for literally anything else is a shame. if all copies of this comic ceased to exist I am sure there would be a noticeable up tick on the Human Development Index
I could swear Linkara was about to pop a blood vessel. Definitely staying away from Marville.
Ah, at last, we come to the end of Marville. The whole series was an experience I doubt any of us will soon forget. Bill Jemas, I don't know what was running through your head while doing this, and quite frankly, I don't think I want to know. You turn the final REAL issue into a recap, blame us, the viewers, for the series not doing well because we 'didn't understand', and turn the final issue into the submissions guidelines for Epic Comics with no connection to Marville at all...Honestly, I'm not even surprised anymore.
Here's a fine example of how to satire comic book tropes and company policies.
Have the main character be a super hero whose power has more value as a negotiator, and that everyone from the goons to the cops to the supervillains keep expecting fistfights. Suddenly, the standard policy of "fighting" crime seems goofy.
Have the main character constantly have his suit torn up and be practically naked every time, but his mask is never touched, so nobody can figure out who he is, but a large portion of his paycheck goes to sewing and stuff. Suddenly you have a satire of fan service, and how goofy secret identities are.
Have the main character's civilian identity be a comic artist or writer, and try to have his own superhero exploits turned into comics, but he can't get his foot in the door or have enough funding to make quality comics.
Your idea sounds really service level like something someone who isn't in to superheroes would make.
@@fightingmedialounge519 That's kinda the point behind satire. George Lucas wouldn't make Spaceballs, and Wes Craven wouldn't make Cabin in the Woods.
To Bill Jemas,
To quote Homer Simpson: "You take forever to say nothing!"
From Do you really care?
Working to become a biology professor, hoping someday to teach one of my favorite classes vertebrate zoology and paleontology. If I ever I do I want to some how work some of these into my lectures, especially the issue with Snorts. Because yeah oddly enough while most of our lecture time was spent on ray and lobe finned fishes, we did take some time out to talk dinosaurs. We had a discussion on whether or not they were warm blooded and how we could reach a conclusion based on looking at their relatives. I think they'd get a good laugh over the spine-thing and how evolution doesn't work.
You know what I thought of? They made fun in the first issue that Ted Turner owned "Dad's Comic Company" but they sucked and didn't publish anything good. What if the comic editor Al was pitching to was Ted Turner and "DCC"? That would have allowed a good way to wrap up the series by bringing things full circle, and allowed plenty of humor from Al's own dad shooting down his comic idea and not believing his story. It would be genuinely creative and funny... oh wait, no wonder Jemas didn't think of it.
Bill Jemas sounds like a bizarre combination of Ben Carson and Uwe Boll.
+docdave15 With less integrity than David Cameron
(SF Debris is not the only person who can make David Cameron jokes.)
+Richard Watt With Donald Trump's ego.
And Tommy Weisau's crazy perception on reality.
And George Lucas is somewhere thankful that he didn't get insulted.
Compare to this Tommy is a genius!
those who saw my comment on the last marville review might remember that I theorized that jack was not god, but a reality warping trickster, akin to mxysptlk, Q or discord, and made up everything in the last issues to screw with the main characters. with that in mind, here's how I would end marville, not with trying to pitch a comic, but with all staging a speech at the united nations. imagine it, all calling together large numbers of reporters, world leaders, and some of the worlds top super heroes together, to hear a huge speech.what they all see next is the first clue to the stupidity and insanity to come. you see up on the podium are Mickey dressed in spider-man themed lingere ( like the lady on the cover), Lucy dressed as a party clown, and al naked as a jay bird, completely coated in honey, and while he gives his speech, Mickey and Lucy take turns using paddles to spank his honey-glazed ass. ( aww come on, its no less stupid than what happened in the actual comic!!) when the heroes naturally ask why the hell they doing that, all explains "jack said we had to, it would help get our message across":( . so after the world sees a naked guy covered in honey who claims to be Ted turner's son from 3000 years in the future, being paddled by a woman spider-lingere and a clown, say that a black man who may be god, a talking Jewish dinosaur named snorts, and wolverene, the father of humanity who evolved from an otter, told him the key to world peace is to stop caring about politics, religion, the economy, or society in general, and just have a worldwide orgy, the story ends the way it should have. with al, Mickey, and Lucy being dragged away to an insane asylum("but we swear to jack, the duckbills did talk to us, and they were JEWISH!!!!" zapping noises"AAAAAH!!!"). and the comic ends showing jack in the audience, laughing his ass off!! :)
you 👌 good job my new son
Kris Lundell
Someone get “How it should have ended” to animate this!
I got a good laugh out of your description of the absurd actions that the characters engage in and then justify it as being no less stupid than what happened in the actual comic, because it's so damn true. Your entire alternate ending for Marville is brilliant, but the idea of Al being covered in honey and paddled by the ladies in silly outfits as part of a United Nations speech especially kills me.
How to make Marville better
1. Destroy any and all traces of it/never existing to begin with
2. Kept it a parody of the comic book industry
3. Left it as one issue
4. Prevent the First Issue from ever existing
To be fair to the editor, in the Marvel universe, a boy from the future trying to sell a comic book idea is less than weird.
oh it is still weird...but not have him commited weird
I like how you used a cover of Bohemian Rhapsody instead of the original. Queen doesn't deserve to be as low as this crap comic.
Suicide Squad joke goes here.
I've just noticed an issue with the ending of issue 6 that I'm surprised that you didn't mention Linkara (HUGE fan by the way) Cant say I blame you though, there is so much wrong with this series as it is.....That and all the alcohol you had to drink to get through this.
Anyways, Al is rich(And a dumb ass but that's besides the point) Like, Millionaire rich....Are we supposed to buy that he couldn't publish his comic ANYWHERE? Like, he couldn't get ANY comic company to publish it? Seriously? He's got plenty of money to make it happen. Pay those comic book company's enough, and I'm sure ONE of them will publish his horrible piece of crap.
But, honestly, should we have expected any less? Its Marville, one of the worst comics ever.
Thank god its over.
+VOGoshinki COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT THAT! Thanks! =D
+Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall Holy crap, you actually respond.....Must not.....faint. Must...Not....fai-
*faints* Thanks though, that made my whole night.
Would it be ok if I ask you a quick question then, its one ive wanted to ask you for a bit. You like super hero comics, and you seem to like certain anime from what ive seen, or atleast make references to it......Have you seen one punch man? Its a anime all about a superhero. If so, do you like it?
Sorry if this is inconvenient, You dont have to answer if you dont want to. Ive just wanted to know this for a while.
VOGoshinki Never watched or read it, sorry. ^^;
+Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall No need to apologize, Im just happy you responded.
Anyways, I wish you the best of luck!
+Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall You should definitely check One Punch Man out. It deals with a hero so powerful his biggest problem is actually getting a fight he has a chance of losing. It has huge "That's friggin awesome!" moments as well as things that you can make fun of, enjoy!
I just realized this is basically a discussion between Lewis's voices for harvey finevoice, linkara, and 90's kid.
Yep. But at least I'd look at a comic book about (20)90s kid traveling to the past to be a hero and discover the meaning of life. It'd be stupid still but the dialogue would be less insufferable.
One thing I actually like about the letter from Bill Jemes is that his finale line before his signing off was “Hijinks to follow”. I think that’s actually rather chuckle-worthy and kind of adorable.
Me after the Warrior review: "Man, this is the most insane idiotic thing I've ever read. Comics can't get worse than this"
Me after the STSF review: "MAn, that was the most inane and insulting and awful comic I've ever heard of. They can't get worse than this":
Me after the Marville reviews: ♫I'VE GOT A BRAND NEW COMBINE HARVESTER AND I'LL GIVE YOU THE KEY♫
Jemas supports One More Day? That explains so much
Incredible that Grant Morrison has written NUMEROUS stories about the monomyth, shamanistic themes in life and stories, and strange mysticism and done VERY well. Possibly because he never has characters stand on an almost literal soapbox and lecture the customer about what a moron they are.
See I think Marville #7 is the most improved comic ever made because it has almost none of the failings of the previous six issues. Which is truly remarkable because I don't think it really has any positive aspects whatsoever.
"He aged, he got married, he got boring."
No. No. No. All the no's.
The problem was not that he was aging, married, or having a kid. The problem was that the writing was bad.
This is the problem with companies these days. They hardly admit their own mistakes. They instead blame their loss of money on other things like the readers or characters growing up.
Marvel and DC, instead of rebooting your universe every 5 seconds, maybe you should focus on WRITING GOOD STORIES!
and if Renew Your Vows was an attempt to prove that debacle was necessary guess what it backfired, because the moment MJ dawned that red and white spider outfit and called herself Spinneret for the first time, any need for "that story" evaporated and any attempts by the writers and editors to continue to say it was necessary comes across as excuses for being lazy and and uncreative because in one panel you fixed everything you claimed made "that story" necessary.
Comics industry: "Oh please, good writing and interesting stories are for REAL authors. We just make stupid comic books."
In fact, I would argue that the EXACT OPPOSITE is the problem (along with the bad writing): That while he's PHYSICALLY aging... He's neither MENTALLY or EMOTIONALLY aging. Refusing to move the character in any direction and have him learn, they've effectively made him a judgemental teenager in an adult's body, still reacting and talking as a Teenager would.
@@Gojiragon good point.
snakes3425 Renew Your Vows was AWESOME!!!
After the first two issues I would have said that Marville isn't good but all in all pretty harmless. They are forgetable but I wouldn't put them on any worst-lists (or at least not high). But man, the rest is just incoherent pseudo-scientific preaching on a level that is incredulous to me.
Well at least the artwork isn't bad (except the third...).
Pseudoscience? Don’t be ridiculous.
Pseudoscience has some internal logic to grab onto. Might not be based in reality, but there is some coherent train of thought.
Linkara you really tore this crap the size of Mt. Everest a new one. Good job and keep up the good work. But why didn't you at least throw it in the trash like you did with Marvel Ultimates?
The pensive shot with the song from Manos playing over it is one of my favorite gags ever
*Spoilers for Neon Genesis Evangelion*
So I haven't watched this series in a while and something occurred to me this time around. Marville is kind of like a bizarro version of Neon Genesis Evangelion. Think about it, both start as kind of deconstructionist satire of their respective genres, NGE being more focused on the serious implications of mecha tropes but even while its satire wasn't always that funny, at least you could understand the joke behind things like PenPen, where Marville's satire is all over the place and its impossible to tell what point it's trying to make.
Both then become philosophical treatises on the nature of life, however where NGE is often hailed as possibly one of the greatest works of storytelling art, Marville is universally reviled. This is interesting because they have a lot of similarities. First, both are kind of debates between two different viewpoints. Creationism and Evolution with Marville and Eros and Thanatos with NGE. However, while NGE ultimately falls more on the Eros side, it points out how Eros can go horribly wrong and why Thanatos is so attractive to some people. Marville just goes, "Creationism is right!" at the end.
Both deal with the fact that life can only continue through the destruction of other life, however where Marville mourns the destruction of molecules, ugh... Evangelion's message here is about how it sucks that it's often necessary for humans to kill EACH OTHER in order to survive. I don't think Kaworu's statement that "The thread of human hope is spun with the flecks of sorrow" would be as impactful if behind him were two amoebas fighting...
Both have extremely questionable science but unlike Marville, NGE doesn't base its philosophy on its science but uses it as a metaphor for its philosophy and human psychology.
NGE has a similar sounding statement to the whole animals don't kill members of their own species in the line "Human beings are the only creature capable of hating their own species" however while I'm not entirely sure that is true it is a lot more plausible than animals not killing each other since that is obviously untrue and while animals may kill each other for a number of reasons, most of them probably don't hate each other but are simply acting on instinct. In addition that line is also supposed to be a metaphor for self-loathing which is even more plausible than its apparent meaning.
Marville brings up the whole parental issues thing but insists its just that its a way of ensuring biological diversity even though I'm pretty sure that's not how animals work and it is no longer necessary for humans. NGE illustrates that parental issues often stem from the fact that they are flawed human beings who make mistakes and that we can't always appreciate why they make the decisions they do because we don't have their perspective or experiences.
Both get rather meta at the end, but with NGE the point is for the message to transcend the story it is in rather than showing how "clever" the writer is.
Both have weird sexual aspects but with NGE its because sex is used as a metaphor for human interaction and the desire for unity which creates incestual overtones, whereas in Marville it goes nowhere beyond "wouldn't it be better if we all just had sex?" and seems mostly fetish material.
Both have a set of three characters, one male and two female with the women being representatives of the extremes of the debate with the male being in the middle. However, in NGE there were reasons why all three characters felt the way they did beyond "one believes in god and the other is an atheist"
Both have an additional ending wherein the creator reacts to negative fan reaction. However, where Marville is just whining about how readers didn't like or buy the book because they just want violence and they don't "get it." End of Evangelion has a legitimate issue with some fans given the fact that they sent death threats to Gainax and Anno. And even though EOE called this out it was still sympathetic to the audience proxy of Shinji despite some of the things he does.
Most importantly, where Marville gives an extremely oversimplified answer, that all we have to do is stop believing in things and have sex. Evangelion (while the end of EoTV is rather simplistic, EOE makes the same point in a much more nuanced way) doesn't give an easy answer. There are no easy answers but life is preferable to death because at least with life there is a chance for happiness and that there are no easy ways to reconcile our differences with other people and that all we can do is try to love and understand each other even though that may be ultimately impossible.
The question that occurs here is, how does a person (Anno) who has no scholastic background in philosophy or psychology can create something that explores those ideas in ways that is beloved by many when someone who does have a scholastic background in philosophy (Jemas) creates something exploring similar ideas in a way that is universally reviled. There are of course many reasons, but I think one of the most important is that unlike Jemas, Anno had actual experience with a central aspect of what he was exploring, depression and the existential questions that result from it. Hell, given some of what happens in NGE, one could argue that Anno may have had a mystical experience similar to Eckhart Tolle's. Other than getting high and watching the discovery channel, I doubt Jemas had any personal experience with what he was talking about.
I just find it fascinating how many of the same ideas and methods can be used but one can be great and the other crap, it just goes to show that a big part of conveying wisdom is in the details of how you convey it.
Also, they both suck
Tareltonlives ..........you don’t like your giant robot shows with a big barrel of depression?
Also, Evangelion wasn't made as part of a bet.
Finally, a character I can relate to (sort of): the editor.
Jemas: And that's why Marvelle will be a best seller....I'm fired aren't I?
Editor: So fired.
Jemas: But I'm president.
Quesada: Not anymore. (Snaps fingers with Infinity Gauntlet, Jemas is "fired")
I have watched all of the marville reviews and my brain is attempting to set it self on fire…
Thanks comic
I... I... have a headache.
+The BlueRogue Just don't think about it. After all, it's clear no one working on this series put any thought into it.
Rewatching the Marville reviews in 2019, possibly as some subconscious form of self-punishment. So, here's what I got:
-Superheroes and comic books are the most important and pure word of god to ever exist, but also, the stories don't matter that much.
-Scientists don't know what they're talking about and Charles Darwin was an idiot, but evolution and natural selection still occurred.
-Wolverine was the first man, but Jesus was the first superhero.
Wow, Bill Jemas' work can't even agree with itself.
What the editor is thinking:
Is my security button broken?
I theorize that Bill Jemas lost his marbles after losing the U-Decide competition and then just went off to write the nonsense that was Marville #3-5.
How in gods name did you get through Marville without alcohol poisoning
He had a team of 17 surgeons that scrubbed his blood every second.
+arbiter11171 I was thinking something more along the lines of Keith Richards, where he goes to Sweden and gets his blood drained and replaced
+Mike White still makes more sense than marville
+arbiter11171 pulp fiction on the first viewing makes more sense than Marville
+Mike White Technically he didn't. One issue was reviewed by the hologram. If it didn't drink up 1/5 of the total alcohol in these reviews, then maybe he wouldn't have walked away in one piece.
Gotta say, as a historian, the Marville reviews were some of the most painful to sit through.
You know, I just realized you missed a chance to mock the fact that once again, Wolverine was on a cover of a comic book he had no part/Little part in. But then again Marville at this point seems to be detached from any sort of context the cover provides, so much so THAT WOLVERINE PUBLICITY FOR SOME REASON ACTUALLY HAD CONTEXT THIS TIME.
I have a headache.
+ShinNovaheart well wolverine is the father of humanity in marville 5, I think that deserves being on the cover at least
Is it me or does the red headed cover girl look scared in all of her pictures?
Carla Hoffman The last two covers seem to be about her glee that it's finally over.
Carla Hoffman Because she's involved in Marville, that's why.
You would too, if your entire existence revolved around promoting the insane delusions of a maniac who cannot distinguish fantasy from reality.
19:05 For some reason this read always cracks me up. A great reaction to something that instantly baffles someone. "Why!?"
I really wish at 8:28 he said, "Lex Luthor's criminal cake crusade." With the picture of Lex Luthor stealing cakes...
Hey, Lewis, you never jumped on Jemas saying that dinosaurs were responsible for oil. They weren't. It was from the PLANTS, not animals.
I honestly dont think a lot of people know that as for a long time it was even taught IN schools as fact that Dinos led to oil
Also I was under the impression that rubber can from certain species of tree... living species that are not extinct nor ancient.
There was so much wrong with Jemas' facts already that it probably slipped his mind.
Batman, Superman and Spiderman are silly, says the numbnuts who wrote Marville.
Ooooook.
I want to remind people of the Carboniferous Period, and not because that is where the bulk of fossil fuels originated. I want people to remember the GIANT SPIDERS.
So Marville is the comic book industry's Garbage Pail Kids? I would have said A Serbian Film but that would be Holy Terror.
Wouldn't "The Unfunnies" be a more accurate Serbian Film counterpart for the comic industry. Holy Terror is either the "An American Carol" of the comic industry or the comic book equivalent of a Dinesh's D'Souza bowel movement.
+GasmaskAvenger I don't know anything about The Unfunnies.
Information on the Unfunnies here: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/TheUnfunnies
It was written by Mark Millar. His wife did not approve.
When you're wife throws the book you wrote at you, you know you fucked up
Yep.
Al: That's the whole point of the story. Readers should love their heroes, but not get too hung up on the stories that writers make up about them.
My only response to this line is to shove my middle fingers out so goddamn far. What's the point of reading those stories if we're not supposed to connect to any of them!?! Go to the depths of Hades foul fiend!
God, I feel unclean just copying that shit.
I just realized. This comic ends on sort of a downer note. God himself says AL Mickey and Lucy are the ones to stop World War 3. And AL says his comic pitch is to spread world peace. Since the editor rejected the comic idea, does that mean that in the context of Marville, World War 3 is going to happen?
Al is from 3000 years in the future and everything looks fine after the war.
I like how the auto-focus blurs stuff when you climb onto the futon. It adds an extra layer of drunkness.
So glad Marville is over. Thank you for taking the time to type up Ruminations, I love knowing what was going on at the time of the original creation of the review. It helpa emphasis just how much work you pour into the episodes.
23:20 I guess that the Zulu and neighboring tribes sort of did this until Shaka came along, they would toss spears, rocks and their own feces at each other until one side surrendered and they took whatever was agreed upon. People died but it was pretty low casualty.
Shaka, when the walls fell?
Right, but applying this tribal tradition to all early man, despite evidence to the contrary of this being the case, is misguided as fuck.
Thanks Linkara for destroying half my brain with that stupid comic series. Every time I hear Marville now I feel my IQ dropping a few points.
Marville.
Wait, Bill Jemas went to Princeton?! Was he HIGH in his philosophy, biology, history, and anthropology classes? Or did he just skip those?
Forgot to mention that Neanderthals breeding with our species was proposed in the 1930S! And yes, recently we have genetic proof from 2006's genetic study of Neanderthal DNA, but guess who found that out? SCIENTISTS!
Still trying to parse the question at 19:50. Is he implying there was no mass extinctions before the dinosaurs when it was TWO mass extinctions 60 million years apart that led to dinosaurs becoming the dominant land animals? Why is he complaining about "God's" timing when he should be complaining about God not stopping the impact since a being who can create life should in all reason be able to change the course of comets?
And thank you for channeling Tom Servo at the end of Wild World of Batwoman.
To be fair most philosphers did partake in some drugs
You can attend a top school and still be a complete idiot.
Bill is fucking up exactly "why", (no surprises there) but he is correct that many hunters, both ancient and modern, make sacrifices or prayers thanking living creatures for giving their life so that the hunter can continue to live.
Jemas seems to consistently confuse some disparite tribal traditions as exactly what all early man would have practiced, and not the byproduct of a lot of generations adapting their behavior to changing societal and environmental pressures.
Basically, he made the error that because a population didn't develop technology as much as others, it must be as primitive in all other aspects.
Nobody likes Marville? What are you talking about, I love it. It provided you with some of your best jokes! How can you not love that about it? :D
m.ruclips.net/video/zrWoG8IckyE/видео.html&pp=ygU9ZXZlcnlvbmUgaW4gdGhpcyByb29tIGlzIG5vdyBkdW1iZXIgZm9yIGhhdmluZyBsaXN0ZW5lZCB0byBpdA%3D%3D
23:24 "they don't hand these degrees out to just anyone you know"
"Anyone with 15 bucks they do!"
8:20 - Best. Legion of Superheroes. Reference. Ever.
Ok, there are a few things here that the comic _almost_ gets right (on the order of the whole neanderthal interbreeding thing, so yeah you have to squint pretty hard), and Linkara doesn't seem to be aware of. So, to give some of the ideas Jemas s--- all over their due chance:
1) Ritualized warfare, to varying degrees, has been pretty common throughout human history (though obviously not universal, and anyone who claims that total war is a recent phenomenon obviously never observed chimpanzee troupe politics), and tends to break down mostly when a new cultural group enters the area who "doesn't know the rules". My favorite demonstration of the dichotomy is that the ancestral Bantu language has two words for warfare, approximately "arrow warfare", fought between related villages at a designated time and place and ended when the point had been made (usually first blood), and "fire warfare" usually fought between foreign groups, and consisting of razing villages, terror tactics, and up to full scale slaughter. The first was intended to defuse conflicts in a relatively peaceful manner, whereas the latter was about driving the other people out entirely.
2) Shakier ground, but my understanding is that the "showing compassion for all living things by killing them" thing is usually closer to "recognizing that killing for food is both wrong and necessary, and so offering remorse and recompense for the act". At the very least, honoring the hunted is pretty common in human societies as well (New World and New Guinea at least), often in the form of honoring a god/spirit who was considered to be the master or mother of the prey species.
24:24 was the best clip used. Now excuse me while I go and ask God for forgiveness because this comic is so terrible, it was probably made by Satan or some force of evil because damn it my head hurts and I felt physical pain from this. Bad science, bad editing, bad art, bad everything. WHY GOD?! WHY?!!!!
Mephisto: Hey Linkara, wanna sell me your future marriage in exchange for having never read Marville?
"No chance in hell, you (hard to pronounce insulting word).
I realize I'm late to the party, just a little bit, with this episode but about the whole "#7 is just the Epic submission guidelines" thing. I'll bet plenty of potential female creators looked at that cover and said "Yep, this is just the program I need to get my stories out there".
(I hope it's obvious that this is sarcasm)
How dare that editor mock the dinosaurs! Just he wait until the Dinosaur Empire with their Mechasaurus come back to reclaim Earth!
Oh please the Troodons are the true masters
T H E T R O O D O N S A R E A M O N G U S
Bill, if I wanted to hear about World Peace I'd watch Miss Congeniality.
31:47 Bill completely misses the main theme of the Dark Phoenix Saga here; it's the classic _With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility_ , not about mutants replacing humans.
The big irony about Marville is that not only was Peter David's run on Captain Marvel successful and pretty much the winner of the U-Decide event, but he's continued to enjoy a pretty successful 20 year or so run at Marvel, while Bill Memes resigned and hasn't really made any other notable contributions since then, leaving this series as the thing he's most well known for.
There's a moral in all of this, but darn if I know what it is.
20:22 - 21:04
MatPat’s realization that FNaF isn’t over.
No, seriously, it isn’t.
I T N E V E R I S
Marville had bad science, bad comedy, and bad everything...and NOW IT HAS A CLIP SHOW
This makes my head hurt...
Your meltdown clips had me laughing so hard, I choked a few times.
Marville having a crossover with the ultimate warrior would-be the highlight of my life.
It's... like if Tommy Wiseau made a comic book...
What a story, Mark!
A story that needs to go burn in hell
You know, I feel like on midsts of all the terrible writing, art, and plot we forget one simple fact:
Bill Jemas is a fully grown adult. And despite that fact, the final two issues of his miniseries are Bill flailing his arms and throwing a temper tantrum about how the comic buying public is too stupid to understand his brilliant work of art. Even if that was the case, like Marville was some great work of “fact” I guess, and nobody bought it even despite that, ending the series like that is the most moronic thing a writer can do.
Technically it is the readers fault that the comic didn't do well. After all they didn't buy the comic. They didn't buy it because it sucks and is absolutely awful but they didn't buy it. He is still an absolute prick but he's right. But if he wanted it to do better he should have just written it better. But that would be to hard now wouldn't it.
Justine Burns because who would want to waste money on this piece of garbage?!
Its justice in its truest form!
Nope, definitely Jemas's fault in why the Marville series didn't sell well.
To this day the biggest missed opportunity ever for AT4W was NOT burring all the Marville issues!
...I think the Disney buyout was a good thing now.
during the 90's I'm pretty sure Peter Parker wasn't a teen anymore and why is he spreading his legs in front of the king pin bowling place?
I love the use of stock footage in this one :)
And any episode with Dr. Cox and MST3k is a good one in my book :)
+Tareltonlives 10:33 me after watch fant4stic
+I bad Grammar Damn... I feel the same way too.
BTW, Dinosaurs never turned into crude oil... Love how we all just keep saying this stupid shit that has been proven wrong for over 20 years..
It sad that the Dinosaurs die out you know.
A book so bad it ends with the President of Marvel trying to dissuade his people from quitting the company
How to trigger Linkara
Step 1. Jurassic Park.
10 years of the best marville review
Oh Marville, I'll never stop asking myself how such a crap comic got made and published.
apparently the president of the company can pull whatever pull shit they want, even when trying to recover from bankruptcy
You have cleary never met a CEO lol
Probably the same way Cats made it to theaters.
@@infamousempire8302 Yeah, people with influence can do whatever they want even if it is making a shitty comic or a movie to spite fans (Last Jedi).
SammEater Ironically, I actually liked Last Jedi, but I respect your opinion.
20:28 The Vicious Cycle of Marville
'The tribes did not hate eachother'... uhh, they wouldn't care. If it had come to fighting, they would be all too happy to kill each other over the food/water/territory they were fighting for.
>artists remember what was on the future TV in the first issue of Marville
>but they don't remember that Mickey was wearing red flats, not hiking boots, seen as late as the *previous damn issue of Marville*.
Simply amazing. XD
I believe Jemas' teachers found out about his comics, read them and felt insulted this is what he believes
8:05 Adventure Time! Oh sorry, I mean, "It's Miller Time!"
It has been so long since I have seen this. I just started hitting my head with my hand unintentionally.
Why is Spike Lee the Kingpin¿
+Vena Retro *cue Manos song*
He quickly passed over this part... Wonder why...
*Stares off in the distance*
Tareltonlives Yeah, he should have read the dialogue with Spike Lee and commented on it...
+Tareltonlives "Forgetting you is a thing that I cannot do..."
By the way... not sure if I already mentioned this, but we have about 1%-4% of genetic material from Neanderthals in the general population. Crossbreeding DID happen. So another thing that's factually wrong in the comics.
foxman105 Not to mention genetic material from other hominid species. In fact, the only group of humans on Earth that are still genetically 100% human are indigenous Africans.
I'll just add that to the bag of science Bill Jemas got wrong. If I can find any room in it.
As a mostly lifelong resident of the Rutgers/Princeton area, comparing them usually means you're implying the Rutgers student is an idiot. During Rocky Horror, during he dinner scene, the local line when Rocky grabs the meat in his hands to devour it, the local line was, "Rocky, eat like a civilized Rutgers student!"
"No such thing!"
And now you've just said the writer WAS Rutgers student, so... who even knows.
12:40 that got a laugh out of me. Good job, Marville.