Hey Nick, what if you’re starting at sea level, can you skip the subtraction part between the pressure altitudes? I’m in NYC and mostly all the airports here are at sea level. Thanks!
Not quite. If you look at the sea level curve it is not at the bottom of the y axis. So you will have non-zero values of fuel, time and distance that you need to subtract. But… they will be small values
Your comment got me thinkin and you are on to something. In fact, you are right… we should also correct our cruise to a pressure altitude. This is inconsistent if we don’t. I think the reason I was taught not to and then put this in my video was because the change will likely be small and it’s easier to find 6500 on your climb performance chart than it is, say 6379’. So I was taught to just assume it’s negligible. But you’re right and this is inconsistent. Thanks for the comment and question. I will have to update my content to reflect this!
The way you teach sounds like an instructor may be in the future you can be a potential instructor. Thanks a lot for this big help for students like me.
In climb you will target an indicated airspeed. Either Vx or Vy. You start with that known indicated airspeed and then you convert it to a true airspeed with temperature data for a mean temperature of each climb leg. Then, you convert the true airspeed to a ground speed using winds for each climb leg from winds aloft or surface winds.
I just want to say thank you! I've watched quite a few other videos, but your's by far has been the most helpful. You actually tell me where I can the information needed =)
Your videos are very informatives there is no doubt in that but what if you don't have these charts like the old aircraft i am learning on it to fly like cessna 150 they don't have this charts So what I supposed to do then if I'm planning for cross country plan, I definitely will ask my flight instructor about that I just wonder if there is an aircraft that they have old style different charts that don't give this chart information and just give some numbers but there's no chart to draw on to find the values
My airport is below class bravo under the 3000 shelf. It’s not a problem if I go west by the time I finish climbing I’m out of class bravo. But if I go south I have to fly at 2500 for 5 minutes then climb to 3500 for another 5 minutes before I’m clear of the 4000 shelf and out of class b. Is there anyway to calculate all of that?
Max Sperlich unfortunately if you want to stay out of the class B then you are going to have to do the multiple calculations. Which is annoying. You will have to put a checkpoint at your top of climb to 2500 and then another checkpoint where you are clear of the bravo and can climb again. So essentially from takeoff to checkpoint 1 will be a climb calculation to 2500. Checkpoint 2 to 3 will be a cruise calculation staying at 2500 for a number of miles and the. Checkpoint 3 to 4 (or more) will be another climb calculation to your final cruise altitude.
Because the example we are using is not from a standard day. The standard temperature line can actually be seen going up through the pressure altitude lines. But conditions are rarely exactly standard and that is why we use this chart. By combining our actual temperature at altitude we are essentially correcting for non-standard conditions which effect our performance (density altitude)
I've searched and searched for a video to explain this. Thank you so much for giving clear step by step instructions for this specific step in cross country planning!!!
Georgia_Dawgs_27 thanks for the question. I think it is important because if you don’t find TOC and match it to a checkpoint then you either have to calculate a leg of flight as half climb and half cruise which can be both confusing and annoying. Or, you would have to assume the whole leg is climb or cruise. If you assume the whole leg is climb when you are only climbing for a small portion of it (like when climbing to 2000) then your fuel and time in flights will be much more than the actual value. This isn’t the worst thing because it’s safe and conservative but it’s not very accurate. If you do the opposite and assume the whole leg is cruise then you are dangerously estimating that you will require less fuel than you really need. Don’t do this. Another option is to calculate the fuel and time needed to climb to 2000 and then add those to the fuel and time needed to cruise during the whole leg of flight. Again this would be conservative and estimate more fuel than is accurate but it’s safe and I know pilots that do this as well. Hopefully that helps. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the explanation. I’ve been wondering how important and necessary it actually is to calculate top of climb especially for a long cross country. I see it can throw some things off. Great video!
Hey Nick, what if you’re starting at sea level, can you skip the subtraction part between the pressure altitudes? I’m in NYC and mostly all the airports here are at sea level. Thanks!
Not quite. If you look at the sea level curve it is not at the bottom of the y axis. So you will have non-zero values of fuel, time and distance that you need to subtract. But… they will be small values
I really wish these POH charts could give you a formula for more accurate results. It's difficult to get precision with these.
Oh. BTW. Love your instructions. Very helpful.
Thank you. Appreciate it!
Why is the 6500 feet cruise altitude in your example assumed to be "pressure altitude"?
Your comment got me thinkin and you are on to something. In fact, you are right… we should also correct our cruise to a pressure altitude. This is inconsistent if we don’t.
I think the reason I was taught not to and then put this in my video was because the change will likely be small and it’s easier to find 6500 on your climb performance chart than it is, say 6379’. So I was taught to just assume it’s negligible. But you’re right and this is inconsistent.
Thanks for the comment and question. I will have to update my content to reflect this!
The way you teach sounds like an instructor may be in the future you can be a potential instructor. Thanks a lot for this big help for students like me.
dionicio Baez no problem and thanks for the kind words! Thanks for watching. Let me know if you have any questions
How do you calculate for wind velocity during climb?
In climb you will target an indicated airspeed. Either Vx or Vy. You start with that known indicated airspeed and then you convert it to a true airspeed with temperature data for a mean temperature of each climb leg. Then, you convert the true airspeed to a ground speed using winds for each climb leg from winds aloft or surface winds.
I just want to say thank you! I've watched quite a few other videos, but your's by far has been the most helpful. You actually tell me where I can the information needed =)
Mandie Villapudua so good to hear! Thank you so much for watching. If you have questions please don’t hesitate to ask
Your videos are very informatives there is no doubt in that but what if you don't have these charts like the old aircraft i am learning on it to fly like cessna 150 they don't have this charts So what I supposed to do then if I'm planning for cross country plan, I definitely will ask my flight instructor about that I just wonder if there is an aircraft that they have old style different charts that don't give this chart information and just give some numbers but there's no chart to draw on to find the values
You’ll have to give me an example of what you’re talking about and I can show you how to use it!
My airport is below class bravo under the 3000 shelf. It’s not a problem if I go west by the time I finish climbing I’m out of class bravo. But if I go south I have to fly at 2500 for 5 minutes then climb to 3500 for another 5 minutes before I’m clear of the 4000 shelf and out of class b. Is there anyway to calculate all of that?
Max Sperlich unfortunately if you want to stay out of the class B then you are going to have to do the multiple calculations. Which is annoying. You will have to put a checkpoint at your top of climb to 2500 and then another checkpoint where you are clear of the bravo and can climb again. So essentially from takeoff to checkpoint 1 will be a climb calculation to 2500. Checkpoint 2 to 3 will be a cruise calculation staying at 2500 for a number of miles and the. Checkpoint 3 to 4 (or more) will be another climb calculation to your final cruise altitude.
What if you’re going from 400’ to 8000’ at your first checkpoint?
Same procedure would apply!
THIS VIDEO ROCKS. THAK YOU.
You rock! Thanks for watching
Why is the temperature 11C at 6500' if the standard drop is 2C per 1000ft?
Because the example we are using is not from a standard day. The standard temperature line can actually be seen going up through the pressure altitude lines. But conditions are rarely exactly standard and that is why we use this chart. By combining our actual temperature at altitude we are essentially correcting for non-standard conditions which effect our performance (density altitude)
@@PartTimePilot thank you!
Anytime
Good stuff thanks a lot
Appreciate it. Thanks for watching
I've been struggling with my XC flight planning. I'm so happy I discovered your videos.
I’m glad! Appreciate it!
Very Helpful!
I've searched and searched for a video to explain this. Thank you so much for giving clear step by step instructions for this specific step in cross country planning!!!
russmanre1 no problem! Thanks for watching. Let me know if you have any questions.
How important is it to calculate TOC if I’m only gonna be climbing to say 2,000?
Georgia_Dawgs_27 thanks for the question. I think it is important because if you don’t find TOC and match it to a checkpoint then you either have to calculate a leg of flight as half climb and half cruise which can be both confusing and annoying. Or, you would have to assume the whole leg is climb or cruise. If you assume the whole leg is climb when you are only climbing for a small portion of it (like when climbing to 2000) then your fuel and time in flights will be much more than the actual value. This isn’t the worst thing because it’s safe and conservative but it’s not very accurate. If you do the opposite and assume the whole leg is cruise then you are dangerously estimating that you will require less fuel than you really need. Don’t do this. Another option is to calculate the fuel and time needed to climb to 2000 and then add those to the fuel and time needed to cruise during the whole leg of flight. Again this would be conservative and estimate more fuel than is accurate but it’s safe and I know pilots that do this as well.
Hopefully that helps. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the explanation. I’ve been wondering how important and necessary it actually is to calculate top of climb especially for a long cross country. I see it can throw some things off. Great video!
Thanks! Let me know if you like the strategy of finding the TOC