i'm still trying to understand why all the higher amperage power supplies being recommended. i did the same experiment and am only drawing a total of 620mA for three nema17's at 20vdc(3.5A). So why is it recommended that i have at least a 12A power supply for three nema's rated at 2A/phase?
Nema 17 can be driven at 48V and the current could be over 1A/motor at that voltage. It could be that the current increases as the voltage does. the maximum voltage for the motor is 32 * √L = VMAX. Given the specified 20% tolerance, this is in a range between 49,57 and 60,71 V for my steppers that have 3mH inductance. On my new machine I am running the motors at 32V and they can draw up to 700mA each.
you need to run the motors under load so they will draw more amps. add a resistance equal to their torque carrying capacity and you will see the amps go up quickly.
Very nice. have you ever attached an oscilloscope to see if we have the high-frequency peaks when any motor start, I have a feeling that multimeter is not fast enough to show the peaks.
So GRBL and Arduino Uno with 4 Nema 17 motors can work with a 16 volts 3.9 amps laptop power supply? I could use it instead of a PC power supply, right?
that is true but only if you use screw transmission. On a belt transmission there is very little increase in current. I have measured 500mA max at 24v. Still only a quarter of 2A
@@mendebil i feel you change the parameters in your answers ... load equals to more current draw end of story , futher more the bigger powersupplies is probly recommended to guard against power spikes ie if all 5 is loaded vertical and moved down then stop...the inductance is reverted back to the power supply .
@@mendebil maybe ... I could be wrong as my cnc is using 5 nema 42 motors , hand build the power supply to my requirements, imho not all psu can absorb power spikes as I had a few issues started with nema 23 ,thought it was the motors then upgraded psu ect then new controllers ,then motors ect that cut out that's why I mentioned it .(as I thought the machine was too heavy ,in the end the nema 23 with proper psu and supplies would have been fine .) In the end the switching psu needs to be upscaled to prevent cut outs Maybe I should just leave the experts and do my thing .
@@mendebil You are misunderstanding why a motor draws more current. It is not the method of transmission that impacts the current draw, it is the load. In your example, the threaded rod ( or screw ) vastly increased the motor inertia, increasing the load, but not to the motors maximum rating.
can we use a 12v/24v of 1a/2a trasformer with rectifer to convert in to dc and u as power source for the 3d printer (including power for motor driver board , hotend , base plate) or shall i compulsory need more amps power source
Are these motors wired to the supply in parrallel? What I want to know is, is each individual motor drawing the amperage read by the multimeter? Or is the multimeter reading cumulative of all the motors?
If you scroll down in these comments, there is a PDF i posted a while.ago. it will answer all your stepper questions. "Stepper support or sth like that"
how about 3 stepper motor nema 23? two motor with with 1.2nm and one motor 1.8nm and peak current is 3A? if I just using 24v 1.5 amp should be enough to power up all of them simultaneously?
Very good test. Thank you. De atunci de cand ai facut filmul in 2017, pana acum, ce parere ai despre motoare? Is bune ? si pt ce is bune mai specific. La ce le-ai folosit mai exact? Vreau sa imi iau si eu si cred ca am gasit un kit cu 5 motoare pe aliexpres la fel cu astea care le prezinti. Ma intereseaza daca legi o sfoara de ax si pui o greutate jos, cate kile poate sa ridice? Si alt test, daca ai legi cumva un batz de ax, lung de 20cm sa zicem, din nou, care e maximum de grame care il poate invarti de jos pana sus. Multumesc si sper sa si primesc un raspuns. Ai facut un video excelent. Poti sa mai faci un video specific cu raspunsurile la ce te-am intrebat daca vrei. Dar e ok si fara film. Cum doresti.
Păi sfoara pe ax înseamnă cuplu de 4 ori mai mare pentru că în loc de 5.9kg la 1 cm de ax ridică 23,6kg la 2,5mm de centrul imaginar al axului. La 20cm ar trebui să ridice 295G presupunând masa bățului egală cu zero. Depinde mult de voltaj și RPM este grafic undeva mai jos.
Digital meter is not going to see the real current as it's a ripple. DC reading is smoothing out the readings. Put that meter on the AC side, reading AC amps, get your base line AC draw, divide Vin/vo (AC/DC) then multiple the AC current reading to see what they are drawing while running test 2...current limit your DC supply to one amp, and I'll bet most will not even move at anything over .5rpm
@@mendebil yes...go ahead and run your cnc machine of 3d printer with only a 1 amp power supply. It will not fly. you'll need at least 400mA to 1 amp PER motor to do any work BTDT, 50 year carrier designing factory atuomation systems
@@paultegler Check out my metal cutting video using a 48w PSU (powering 4 motors AND the proxon 50 spindle). Not even breaking a sweat. Power draw comes from friction or large inertial masses. Belt drive is same as running motors in the air.
I don't think so, because stepper motors have a different construction than brushed DC motors. when the stepper motor stalls, the rotating magnetic field does not stop rotating. only back emf affects when the stepper motor stalls
It is voltage dependent! And also depends based on number of stacks. Check the charts here pages.pbclinear.com/rs/909-BFY-775/images/Data-Sheet-Stepper-Motor-Support.pdf
@@mendebil can you say ,what should i have to go with power supply unit or programmable psu,i am in dilemma what to choose (both are same price with marigin 14$)
Very good explanation. I wait some thing like that. Can you show how you connect the 5 stepper motor with one multi meter? I want try this at my home. Thanks
Hello, I saw your great video and I'm currently working on a project. I would like to operate 3 Nema 17 motors with the A4988 driver with a microcontroller. I can do that without any problems, but if more than one motor is controlled by the microcontroller at the same time, then both motors run slower. Likewise, if all 3 motors are controlled at the same time. I have already carried out measurements and saw that if 2 motors are controlled at the same time, then there is a current loss of about 20mA. I wanted to ask you how you did it. I couldn't tell you were having the same problem. All engines run stably. Have you encountered this problem too? I use an english translator because my english is not that good. Thanks for the answer
How are you measuring current loss? Sounds like the microcontroller is not working properly. A4988 receives pulses that determine stepper speed. I never had step skipping but it would be obvious , you would hear the motor skip
@@mendebil I have already tried this with several microcontrollers (Arduino Mega2560, Arduino Due, ESP8266. But always the same result. If several motors are controlled simultaneously by the same microcontroller, then the speed of rotation of all motors slows down. I have one motor-A the whole Let it turn for a while and then, after some time, switch on a second Motor-B via software. You can then see exactly that Motor-A rotates more slowly as soon as Motor-B is switched on. I couldn't see any change on my oscilloscope. The pulses were always the same size. But I could see that the current from Motor-A decreased as soon as Motor-B was switched on. The current from Motor-A decreases by about 20mA (from 220mA to 200mA). I think that's real strange, because my laboratory power supply can deliver up to 5A. Of course I tried to compensate for this with a higher current. But it didn't work. No matter how high I set the current, the motor-A loses speed age.
yes they can get hot to touch. basically your skin feels burned at 45C but they can run up to 80C without a problem. Check the current. Also it is said that the higher the voltage the cooler the stepper.
@@pd.dataframe2833 the lower the voltage, the ampere getting high, to meet the power rating and the coil of the stepper are feel more stress cause of high ampere with the low voltage, therefore you should use higher vol;tahge
Is it Necessary to use a Power supply to run the stepper motors?? Because i didnt use a power supply which means connected the CNC Sheild and Arduino to direct 220V power supply using a 12v 1amp adapter, but the Nema 17 Motors were not Running, What might me the possible reason??
This test is useless, the motors are only running under the rotor inertia. For a motor to draw power the power needs somewhere to go, in this case physical resistance of the rotor. Just because your starter can start your car, does not mean it car replace the motor on the highway. In that analogy 0.641A power overcoming rotor inertia is the starter starting the car, and the highway is the 2A max load the motor is capable of. Put it in a situation where it needs the full 2A capacity and it will use it.
какая номенклатура двигателей? нормально работают на 24в? не перегреваются? / what is the exact stepper motor model? are they operated correcrty on 24v? no overheating problems?
Hi, I am using double stack motors.See this PDF. www.pbclinear.com/Download/DataSheet/Stepper-Motor-Support-Document.pdf They can get hot if working longer than 1 hour, but you can reduce the current limit to compensate. I wish I knew russian but I don't. ЗДОРОВЬЕ!
You hear all that god forsaken noise? That is because you're running low voltage PSUs. This is from resistance from lower volt PSUs. If you really want optimum power and performance from these you need to run the max allowed voltage. Forget the current for a second. Most steppers are rated at 24v. That is the minimum power needed though. Most steppers that can run 24v can run up to 48v just fine. You should be running the highest voltage allowed period. Not only will they shut the hell up, but they will be running with much higher torque curves at speed. The current is generally able to be set via the drivers if you're running decent shit.
@@mendebil lol, I'm not hating! Just telling you something you should know about. I didn't know shit about this stuff a few years ago, but after building multiple CNC and Laser cutting machines I've had to find out a lot of things the hard way. Your idea was good, but there are variables that you didn't account for is all I'm sayn
Flawed test. The only way to correctly measure current is to use a oscilloscope current probe to see the peak current into the windings. A digital voltage meter cannot read the fast changing microstepping waveform that the driver is sending out to the motor. The driver is sending a high frequency chopped current. Your volt meter is to slow to even see this.
This video is flawed. That multimeter is not able to do this kind of measurements, it has a way too slow sample rate and no TrueRMS function, so it will not measure the very fast peak loads from stepper drivers correctly.
This was not a good example at all. You didn't put the motors under load. Of course the current is low without load. You need to put them under load to find out what the consumed current is.
7:41 this is where the fun begins 😂
XD hahah
@@Blendershick hahaahaha
Your test is very good and I would agree with all your findings. thank you.
Thank you sir!!! I should have watched your video before buying 17A power supply which is absurdly big.
i'm still trying to understand why all the higher amperage power supplies being recommended. i did the same experiment and am only drawing a total of 620mA for three nema17's at 20vdc(3.5A). So why is it recommended that i have at least a 12A power supply for three nema's rated at 2A/phase?
Nema 17 can be driven at 48V and the current could be over 1A/motor at that voltage. It could be that the current increases as the voltage does. the maximum voltage for the motor is 32 * √L = VMAX. Given the specified 20% tolerance, this is in a range between 49,57 and 60,71 V for my steppers that have 3mH inductance. On my new machine I am running the motors at 32V and they can draw up to 700mA each.
you need to run the motors under load so they will draw more amps. add a resistance equal to their torque carrying capacity and you will see the amps go up quickly.
This test is basically useless without the motors rotating under load
Helpful, thanks!
I was worried the motors would tear your fingers off. Wouldn't like to try that with Nema 23! ;)
Very nice. have you ever attached an oscilloscope to see if we have the high-frequency peaks when any motor start, I have a feeling that multimeter is not fast enough to show the peaks.
Thanks Man just confirmed a doubt I had👍 👌
So GRBL and Arduino Uno with 4 Nema 17 motors can work with a 16 volts 3.9 amps laptop power supply? I could use it instead of a PC power supply, right?
Yes it works. 16v is pretty low voltage for nema 17. You should keep your rpms under 200 at that voltage
thanks , for the first time this nemo17 stepper motors are working
Finding Nema
@@mendebil That was awesome :))
this is unvalid, they will peak at current when you load them, i.e. moving heavy stuff
that is true but only if you use screw transmission. On a belt transmission there is very little increase in current. I have measured 500mA max at 24v. Still only a quarter of 2A
@@mendebil i feel you change the parameters in your answers ... load equals to more current draw end of story , futher more the bigger powersupplies is probly recommended to guard against power spikes ie if all 5 is loaded vertical and moved down then stop...the inductance is reverted back to the power supply .
@@johannescordier7923 amy PSU can handle spikes. Still ... buying 10 amps for 1 amp average is stupid
@@mendebil maybe ... I could be wrong as my cnc is using 5 nema 42 motors , hand build the power supply to my requirements, imho not all psu can absorb power spikes as I had a few issues started with nema 23 ,thought it was the motors then upgraded psu ect then new controllers ,then motors ect that cut out that's why I mentioned it .(as I thought the machine was too heavy ,in the end the nema 23 with proper psu and supplies would have been fine .)
In the end the switching psu needs to be upscaled to prevent cut outs
Maybe I should just leave the experts and do my thing .
@@mendebil You are misunderstanding why a motor draws more current. It is not the method of transmission that impacts the current draw, it is the load. In your example, the threaded rod ( or screw ) vastly increased the motor inertia, increasing the load, but not to the motors maximum rating.
Nice. Thank you very much for the experiment. very useful.
Pc power supply can i use?
thank you sir you are the perfect techer on the youtube
That's all nice, but the motors have no load on them. What is the power draw when they are actually hooked up to a CNC machine?
Stall current is about 500mA. This is at 24V so 12W .
he actually tried that
ruclips.net/video/b7ARo4i1fkw/видео.html
@@testingbeta7169 I am woman
just messing with you and bored shitless
can we use a 12v/24v of 1a/2a trasformer with rectifer to convert in to dc and u as power source for the 3d printer (including power for motor driver board , hotend , base plate) or shall i compulsory need more amps power source
Are these motors wired to the supply in parrallel? What I want to know is, is each individual motor drawing the amperage read by the multimeter? Or is the multimeter reading cumulative of all the motors?
It is the cumulative current consumption in series with PSU and all motors
How do i know the voltaje of my steppers in the datasheet says 2.8v but ppl connected the steppers with 24v, what do i miss?
If you scroll down in these comments, there is a PDF i posted a while.ago. it will answer all your stepper questions. "Stepper support or sth like that"
can u suggest me a charger for driving 2 motors how much volts and amps do required
What about 500w spindle whats the best power supply for it
how about 3 stepper motor nema 23? two motor with with 1.2nm and one motor 1.8nm and peak current is 3A? if I just using 24v 1.5 amp should be enough to power up all of them simultaneously?
the coils are different for nema 23 so I expect there is a difference in power requirement... the idea is to measure first, buy after
Very good test. Thank you. De atunci de cand ai facut filmul in 2017, pana acum, ce parere ai despre motoare? Is bune ? si pt ce is bune mai specific. La ce le-ai folosit mai exact? Vreau sa imi iau si eu si cred ca am gasit un kit cu 5 motoare pe aliexpres la fel cu astea care le prezinti. Ma intereseaza daca legi o sfoara de ax si pui o greutate jos, cate kile poate sa ridice? Si alt test, daca ai legi cumva un batz de ax, lung de 20cm sa zicem, din nou, care e maximum de grame care il poate invarti de jos pana sus. Multumesc si sper sa si primesc un raspuns. Ai facut un video excelent. Poti sa mai faci un video specific cu raspunsurile la ce te-am intrebat daca vrei. Dar e ok si fara film. Cum doresti.
Păi sfoara pe ax înseamnă cuplu de 4 ori mai mare pentru că în loc de 5.9kg la 1 cm de ax ridică 23,6kg la 2,5mm de centrul imaginar al axului. La 20cm ar trebui să ridice 295G presupunând masa bățului egală cu zero. Depinde mult de voltaj și RPM este grafic undeva mai jos.
@@mendebil Poate faci si un filmutz... Am inteles eu ce zici da e mai fain cand le vezi. Sa ma si anunti dupa ce il publici.
@@mendebil Inca un experiment bun de facut pt mine, daca pui un al 2lea motor pe batzul de 20cm prins de axul primului motor. Il ridica ori se face?
Digital meter is not going to see the real current as it's a ripple. DC reading is smoothing out the readings. Put that meter on the AC side, reading AC amps, get your base line AC draw, divide Vin/vo (AC/DC) then multiple the AC current reading to see what they are drawing while running
test 2...current limit your DC supply to one amp, and I'll bet most will not even move at anything over .5rpm
That is why there are filter caps in PSUs. To smooth out ripple. So what is your point again? Power my CNC with a current limited bench PSU?
@@mendebil yes...go ahead and run your cnc machine of 3d printer with only a 1 amp power supply. It will not fly. you'll need at least 400mA to 1 amp PER motor to do any work BTDT, 50 year carrier designing factory atuomation systems
@@paultegler Check out my metal cutting video using a 48w PSU (powering 4 motors AND the proxon 50 spindle). Not even breaking a sweat. Power draw comes from friction or large inertial masses. Belt drive is same as running motors in the air.
@@mendebil my own router table.... https: / / ruclips.net/video/KklafqyZpSY/видео.html
This test is useless unless the motors are under load...
yes
I don't think so, because stepper motors have a different construction than brushed DC motors. when the stepper motor stalls, the rotating magnetic field does not stop rotating. only back emf affects when the stepper motor stalls
That video helped me. I have the same Motor.
does anyone know how much is average mechanical power of NEMA 17 if assumed operated at 600 RPM?
It is voltage dependent! And also depends based on number of stacks. Check the charts here pages.pbclinear.com/rs/909-BFY-775/images/Data-Sheet-Stepper-Motor-Support.pdf
hi is it ok to use bench power supply to power stepper motor,12 constant voltage?
Depends how much speed you will need from the motor. 12V is good up to 500RPM. 24V-1000RPM, 36V-1500RPM
@@mendebil can you say ,what should i have to go with power supply unit or programmable psu,i am in dilemma what to choose (both are same price with marigin 14$)
Very good explanation. I wait some thing like that. Can you show how you connect the 5 stepper motor with one multi meter? I want try this at my home.
Thanks
power all the stepper drivers (need 5 of them) using the same psu and put the amp meter in series with the psu.
Hello, I saw your great video and I'm currently working on a project. I would like to operate 3 Nema 17 motors with the A4988 driver with a microcontroller. I can do that without any problems, but if more than one motor is controlled by the microcontroller at the same time, then both motors run slower. Likewise, if all 3 motors are controlled at the same time. I have already carried out measurements and saw that if 2 motors are controlled at the same time, then there is a current loss of about 20mA. I wanted to ask you how you did it. I couldn't tell you were having the same problem. All engines run stably. Have you encountered this problem too? I use an english translator because my english is not that good. Thanks for the answer
How are you measuring current loss? Sounds like the microcontroller is not working properly. A4988 receives pulses that determine stepper speed. I never had step skipping but it would be obvious , you would hear the motor skip
@@mendebil I have already tried this with several microcontrollers (Arduino Mega2560, Arduino Due, ESP8266. But always the same result. If several motors are controlled simultaneously by the same microcontroller, then the speed of rotation of all motors slows down. I have one motor-A the whole Let it turn for a while and then, after some time, switch on a second Motor-B via software. You can then see exactly that Motor-A rotates more slowly as soon as Motor-B is switched on. I couldn't see any change on my oscilloscope. The pulses were always the same size. But I could see that the current from Motor-A decreased as soon as Motor-B was switched on. The current from Motor-A decreases by about 20mA (from 220mA to 200mA). I think that's real strange, because my laboratory power supply can deliver up to 5A. Of course I tried to compensate for this with a higher current. But it didn't work. No matter how high I set the current, the motor-A loses speed age.
@@sebastianhamburg2245 thats because your code is not fast enough i guess
use a 32bit faster mp and this should not be an issue
@@patrickmaartense7772 no, the problen was the delay()-Funktion.
@@sebastianhamburg2245 man induced loss of speed :)
very good explanation. thank u.
can u tell me why my stepper motor getting hot in no load? is it normal?
yes they can get hot to touch. basically your skin feels burned at 45C but they can run up to 80C without a problem. Check the current. Also it is said that the higher the voltage the cooler the stepper.
@@mendebil did u mean lower the voltage the cooler or is it otherwise
@@pd.dataframe2833 the lower the voltage, the ampere getting high, to meet the power rating and the coil of the stepper are feel more stress cause of high ampere with the low voltage, therefore you should use higher vol;tahge
You probably need to hold the min/max button to deactivate the mode.
@@biggityboggityboo8775 true dat. Keep pressure on wound ca la școala de șoferi
Huge help, thank you
Sir good explanation and which software ur using to control ple make 1 video .
Is it Necessary to use a Power supply to run the stepper motors?? Because i didnt use a power supply which means connected the CNC Sheild and Arduino to direct 220V power supply using a 12v 1amp adapter, but the Nema 17 Motors were not Running, What might me the possible reason??
This test is useless, the motors are only running under the rotor inertia. For a motor to draw power the power needs somewhere to go, in this case physical resistance of the rotor. Just because your starter can start your car, does not mean it car replace the motor on the highway. In that analogy 0.641A power overcoming rotor inertia is the starter starting the car, and the highway is the 2A max load the motor is capable of. Put it in a situation where it needs the full 2A capacity and it will use it.
какая номенклатура двигателей? нормально работают на 24в? не перегреваются? / what is the exact stepper motor model? are they operated correcrty on 24v? no overheating problems?
Hi, I am using double stack motors.See this PDF. www.pbclinear.com/Download/DataSheet/Stepper-Motor-Support-Document.pdf They can get hot if working longer than 1 hour, but you can reduce the current limit to compensate. I wish I knew russian but I don't. ЗДОРОВЬЕ!
Very nice!
Thanks! It was usefull
You hear all that god forsaken noise? That is because you're running low voltage PSUs. This is from resistance from lower volt PSUs. If you really want optimum power and performance from these you need to run the max allowed voltage. Forget the current for a second. Most steppers are rated at 24v. That is the minimum power needed though. Most steppers that can run 24v can run up to 48v just fine. You should be running the highest voltage allowed period. Not only will they shut the hell up, but they will be running with much higher torque curves at speed. The current is generally able to be set via the drivers if you're running decent shit.
y u hatin bro
@@mendebil lol, I'm not hating! Just telling you something you should know about. I didn't know shit about this stuff a few years ago, but after building multiple CNC and Laser cutting machines I've had to find out a lot of things the hard way. Your idea was good, but there are variables that you didn't account for is all I'm sayn
Okay well none of they have any load... obviously the current will be at or close to maximum if every motor was at max holding torque.
Every electrician says me otherwise...
Flawed test.
The only way to correctly measure current is to use a oscilloscope current probe to see the peak current into the windings. A digital voltage meter cannot read the fast changing microstepping waveform that the driver is sending out to the motor. The driver is sending a high frequency chopped current. Your volt meter is to slow to even see this.
THUMBS UP
"I don't have time for this BS" hahaha. This is how I do the math, my motors look like your motors so I will get a 12v 2A power supply. hahaha
Get 24V man. And this test applies to belt transmission. If you are driving a screw , you need double the cuurent
WHAT THE FUCK!
This video is flawed. That multimeter is not able to do this kind of measurements, it has a way too slow sample rate and no TrueRMS function, so it will not measure the very fast peak loads from stepper drivers correctly.
😂😂😂😂😂
Hahaa .. What the fuck ...i dont have time for this bullshit .... Lol
Video says power supply. Yet video is about power consumption. wtf dude.
Video says selecting a power supply. (Based on actual current draw) wtf indeed
@@mendebil And you did NOT select a power supply. There also was no load on the Nema's. Your video was a waste of time.
This was not a good example at all. You didn't put the motors under load. Of course the current is low without load. You need to put them under load to find out what the consumed current is.
russian hacker :)