Hey everyone, this is a 5 hour livestream condensed into a single video, so some of my explanation and input from chat isn't in the actual video but is in the placement of characters. If you want to view the entire discussion, here's a link to the live: ruclips.net/user/liveuir0loMt-To
Just so you know, Prywden responded to Gacha Smack's criticisms over their tier list, but didn't even watch your video. So just like HSR, they just take popular opinions from a few big CCs and is basically a tier list that represents their opinion instead of getting out the truth.
These guys have the same views I don't see how gacha smack is a popular creator compared to this guy here? Simply put I believe atleast one of the guys who works on prydwenn knows gacha smack and so they are just more likely to see his video as they run in that circle. If they don't see a video from someone they don't know how are they supposed to respond to it on any way?
@@EyesDontCry By popular, I was referring to sub count and game audience. This guy only covers WUWA essentially and Gacha Smack covers Wuwa and HSR. If what you suggest is true about their relationship, then that is the problem I am pointing out. if you only subscribe and listen to a few close associates's opinion you are going to make a diasterous list like Prywden has over and over in both WUWA and HSR. Prywden could literally just do simple google search to get opinions from outside their circle, no idea why we are giving them excuses. In fact you even pointed out both vids has currently the same views. I am not even a subscriber of either channel but I got YT recommended from probably just search WUWA content.
@@HotPepperLala sub count doesn't matter, you could have a million subs from years of accumulation but still only 30k actually watch you the rest are just dead accounts who don't even tune in. But aside from that, I think you might not understand what prydwenn even is. It's a small team of people who only really popped up when hsr came out because of their damage comparisons and tier lists. This isn't an actual institute or anything with authority, just a small group of people who collect data and make tier lists. The reason I say this is not to deflect criticism but to contextualise the decision you have criticised. They don't have a ton of ways to gauge opinions. They do their data collection and make their lists but other than that they don't have extensive access to tons of poling data nor do they know what people to listen to in the online space. I don't think they even have social media accounts atleast ones that anyone follows. The issue you have highlighted isn't easily solved in any particular way, the reason they might listen to someone like gacha smack isn't because of some insular insider circle where only a select few have a say, it's literally just "hey a guy we know who regularly covers our stuff criticised it, let's take into account what they said and see what we might have gotten wrong". You are painting it in a way which makes it out as though these are some big wig corporate executives who are only beholden to their investors and shareholders, but the actual context is much less insidious and might help you to understand why they would listen to gacha smack and not this channel. It's not because they don't have enough clout as you seem to imply, it's just because they know gacha smack through previous interaction and therefore already have access to that avenue of critique. I think your criticism is valid on principle, yes anyone should look to varied sources of information on anything but I think you're framing of them is inaccurate and inconsiderate to their circumstances as a small team with very little actual authority on anything. That's not to say they don't have influence, just that they aren't a be all end all on what's good and bad in the game they cover.
@@HotPepperLala for example you said they can just google, but Google what? Googling people's opinions on something won't tell you if you are right or not. You need targeted criticism, not a hodge podge of random ideas people have. You can say their tier list is wrong, and that's a good thing. Opinion based information shouldn't aim to be right the first time it should aim to be as right as it can be. Nobody gets that first try, such mistakes are important and public scrutiny which you can gauge such as a youtube videos with likes and dislikes aswell as comments with likes and further discussion will all help achieve greater understanding. Again this is a small team, mistakes are inevitable and it shouldn't be "how do we avoid these mistakes" it should be "how do we improve from the mistakes we do make" or in the case of opinions it's not even a mistake, just a matter of perspective and refining it by considering new perspectives and how those new perspectives can expand your overall understanding.
Fair take. I think I'd rank her similarly to Danjin in that her very big reliance on field time to actually deal meaningful damage gives her a lack of flexibility with characters who have very tight timing windows (Encore), which makes any team comp she's slotted in beg the question: would another character work better here? The answer to that question is oftentimes just, "yes".
@saintontas my take is that her role in changli isn't to make meaningful damage, but not steal time from either changli or the sustainer. She's perfectly fine swapping in between both to spend her one of the charges of the skill which has a low charge time as well as just receive the changli outro buff when her ult is up. Bonus points if you can do it with dodge counters cuz that damage is great. If thats all you do she has less field time than anyone except s6 sanhua
@@TheRedEyeChannel you don't really need her E when play her in Changli team just need to swap and aim to use her dodge counter instead. Or you don't need to maximize her E up time just do it to fill concerto bar. I think, Changli quick swap team just need so much APM and quick thinking to play. It is just too hard to average players base
unpopular opinion but Zhezhi is actualy a Great main dps and in my opinion deserving to be above Lingyang. and thats mostly because most of her dmg, almost all of it, is being considered basic attack dmg, Her on field damage rises to huge values combined with sanhua Its a fun, fairly safe, and most importantly, Working playstyle (since im easly clearing the tower with it) that should deserve a little bit of attention
As a Xiangli main, he really does work with almost everyone. I have him and Changli. I'm still building her and looking for a good character to support on her team
Xiangli Yao works with almost everyone yes, but he loses a lot of DPS with many combinations. I run him straight up With Yinlin and Shorekeeper and he does insane with this combo. Somehow this dude does no damage with Verina
Thank you for this. This tierlist is more authentic than Prydwen IMO because tou have in game experience with all characters and hands-on gameplay using the characters, along with explanations and nuanced usage of characters. Great job!
I can see noone has fucking played Spectro Rover since they finished the main quest in 1.0. The ammount of disrespect she gets is batshit insane. She does more consistent dmg than Havoc Rover while also being able to play quickswap really well and still gets put 2 tiers below Havoc or even forgotten. Also her c6 makes Shorekeeper outro hit 60k when played in a Shorekeeper-Rover-Changli quickswap setup.
Spectro rover is shit if you are a dolphin or whale. If you are f2p yes it's good slightly lower than havoc due to the fact havoc have shorter rotations resulting in higher dps (echo instant vs spectro transformation delay)
@@polarqueen-fz8gq You realize these tierlists are for c0 limited units, right? Im not a whale but I have had bp and gemcard since the start and Spectro Rover has always been in my Tower clears. No dolphin or below has more than half of the current limited units, so Rover is used by many as an actual main dps or at least a sub dps battery. 100k bursts + another 50k misc dmg within 6secs + outro is nothing to laugh at for non-whales.
@@Windman1995f2p’s can pretty easily have over half the current limited roster. if you dont pull for weapons you could possibly get all of them with some luck. considering that a lot of limiteds have been dps, that just lowers spectro rovers value since she doesn’t work particularly well with any of them, nor does she outdamage them. she’s fine, usable, maybe even good but there are almost always better options
LingYang is super F2P friendly, i cleared central part of ToA with him having lvl 70 4* weapon, Sanhua and Baizhi, also i have better supports for him i just wanted to see if he is actually capable of clearing the hardest content available FULLY F2P, and the answer is yes. He might not be the fastest, but for now he clears everything with just a decent build and Sanhua not even having 5* weapon to deal some damage, nor the healer with fast rotation, and if you put Verina to his team he'll be capable of clearing everything with ease. Calcharo is a bit clunky, I'd say they both are B tier. LingYang now has Crit weapon option and more than 1 really good sup-dps option, although i still can't say he is A tier even if i want
Changli is literally BiS for every relevant dual dps team though? There is no world where she's not unanimously rank 1 in that category lol. How is her "needing someone to swap to" seen as a negative and lowering her ranking here when the whole point of dual dps teams is to SWAP between the two of them aka she'll always have someone to swap to? This point literally made zero sense.
Yeah it was something that didn’t make sense to me in his last video either Like for me if I put changli and yao it’s way better than Yao and yinlin And the quick swap ain’t even hard since it has one of the best swap timinngs Lmao my Yao, changli, baizhi performes a lot better than my jinhsi team be it jinhsi , yinlin , verina or jinhsi yinlin , SK But yeah I don’t have jinhsi’s sig while I have Yao’s sig and S1 ……
Her lack of flexibility is the main downside when compared to every other dual DPS character, who can be played at similar efficiency in other teams, with far less resources. Changli, in all honesty, requires "more" investment than every other character in the game. If she's paired with someone who isn't built, your team sucks. If Camellya, Jiyan, or XLY have a sub-dps who isn't built, their teams are still fine but miss like 5-10% of their DPS. Changli's lack of 'efficiency' in my eyes, degrades her ranking.
@@Sthhuihryjbtijhuijnn Yeah, same with Catapulta and Changli or California and XY. They're better with another DPS than with Yinlin due their long animations.
First of all, rlly nice job. This is rlly good and complete tier list, with good explanations in general. But I have some considerations: About the Dual DPS: -I think that you should consider put Chixia in B tier in the Dual DPS list too, since her best team it's with Changli, that it's a Dual DPS characters. Chixia's E it's good and easy to swap and her "DPS time" have short duration like H Rover and Encore. -And I don't think that your motive to put Xiangli Yao in front of Changli in the Dual DPS it's valid, if we are talking about DPS ok it's fair, but in Dual DPS it's normal to swap. Now about the Speedrun tier list: -I think that Changli should be S tier too. I like to watch one channel in the bilibili that do a compiled of the top10 fastest speedruns vs one boss in the TOA at S0R1 after almost every reset, in this Top 10 Shorekeeper tends to appears in 7 to 9 teams, Changli in 4 to 5 teams, Jinhsi in 2 to 3 teams. Changli appears in more teams than Jinhsi and in the top 5 teams normally 3 are teams that have Changli, so I think that if fair to put her in S tier. -I would put Xiangli Yao in the first or second place of the A tier since, Xiangli Yao's clear times with the time started to become faster than Encore's teams and sometimes he even clear faster than Jinhsi.
Interesting video, even if the title of the video is pure bait, you are not "fixing" anything, you are just replacing Prydwen bias for your own, the more obvious being the "value" tier list, but the dual DPS was pretty bad as well, for example the lack of the coordinate attack characters there feels odd, why are they excluded? Because you also have them in the sub/DPS? Cant be, you also have Danjin and Changli in both tier lists
28:15 Why would you put moonlit to changli? 😂 why would you even think that? Sub dps does not mean moonlit user. Changli is literally the strongest "Sub" DPS on that list in terms of damage. And sanhua is the strongest in terms of buffs and field time and availability. Changli, xiangli yao, verina QS gameplay is literally one of the strongest team in the game. You can look it up yourself. Sanhua, camellya, SK. Burst. Xiangli yao, yinlin and SK is good too but yinlin is only at full power with xiangli yao while sanhua can support other characters in full power like encore or h Rover without wasting other buffs. Mort can only buff one character in full power and prankly jiyan mort is not as strong as yinlin xiangli yao and sanhua camellya or changli xiangli yao. The only problem in changli xiangli yao is your skill issues since you need to practice it to use it effectively.
Re: Changli and Mortefi--you're right. Mortefi in Illusive Realm (where you can pretty much turn him into a 5-star) really reveals the DPS potential he has. Insanely comfortable way to melt things as a distance without the animation-locks that poor Encore has. Mortefi, AOE wise, also knocks down enemies with his skill and does a fair bit of CC. Interrupts don't bother him the way they do Chixia. I wouldn't mind if Kuro made a 5-star version of him for us in the future :D Re: Zhezhi and Yinlin not being main DPS character--you're also 100% right. They're best with the coordinated attack factor of off-field damage. Yinlin, especially, has an incredibly fast ultimate recharge so you can swap her in, ult, concerto, and outro skill incredibly fast. Re: Chixia and Danjin--I think they fit the important niche of solo clearing which other DPS characters (except maybe a pro Calcharo???) can't really do. In a team setting though where you ranked them is 100% right. Re: our DPS characters--Jinhsi at S1 hit 500k for me. Camellya, same sequences, same 300% CD, I can't optimize because her lack of mobility is an issue. You're right about Jinhsi's small application value though. I would say Jiyan is better as the single DPS you should have given the amount of Havoc and Electro resitant enemies you have and the fact that he has a ton more mobility than Camellya. He also has a really fast recharge if you get his S1. The rest of it is perfect tho haha xD Re: dual DPS--a Xiangli Yao and Changli dual dps team is genuinely one of the most comfortable quick swap teams. They time with each other perfectly. Like I swear Kuro made them to work this way because the ult recharges are identical and you can do Changli heavy --> Ult --> heavy --> XY intro --> Ult --> skill to freeze --> Changli again... blah blah. It's perfect
It's like they just put together a tier list for the sake of making a tier list but tbf to them WuWa's roster is full of nuances. Standardizing the stipulations will not improve it's accuracy in fact ignoring specific synergies and nuances will just decrease it's reliability
Youhu is a support at S0 and a not so good sub dps. The more resonance chains you get the better she becomes at sub dps. If you want to run Youhu support with Sanhua sub dps and Zhezhi Main dps you would need to use Youhu then outro to Zhezhi for her liberation, swap to Sanhua and outro back to Zhezhi now you have full buff on Zhezhi with full forte. Yes you can clear all content with this team and it’s easy to play.
For the section where you show the speedrun gameplay, i can tell your audio/voice is more quiet, i'll say that (if you wanted/cared) you could look into "ultimate vocal remover", its used to separate/split audio into like vocals/instrumentals/etc, so you could extract your vocal audio for that section, then just reinsert it back into the timeline/editing software, so your still the same volume but the loud gameplay isn't. (I'm not trying to tell you how to edit or anything, sorry if this comes off rude/etc).
Ur take w Changli dual dps is kinda just bad. She is the best at dual dps. This should not even be a question. More dual dps teams use Changli. We cannot question builds on a tier list called "dual dps". "Changli is only viable as a dual dps makes her limited", thats not what u judge on a "dual dps" tier list. Agree more or less with the rest.
Prydwen also f'd up some other games, one example being ZZZ's, where every single 4-star is considered to always be tier 1 and up, like there's no viable 4-star to be built despite there is actually some good 4-stars in the game. Lucy, Nicole, Piper, Seth is currently the meta but Prydwen won't even consider them in the tier list so it definitely pisses me off lol
Ssth is meta? Dang. He seems real clunky and bad to my brother and I. None of us have even bothered to build him; mine's still sitting at 1/10. We use Ben over him.
As a Day 1 Jinshi owner the only thing I struggle with her is the fact that charging her Nuke to Max just takes time, either my build is is weird or I have skill issue or whatever idk personally 😐
Get the painting lady. For the 6 star it's worth it. Unless it's a spectro boss I don't even care who the boss is I will win with 3 star and I only mash button.
Please upload more videos of yours on stream, edited VODs for example. Your personality is genuinely so great and entertaining on-stream. Like the video ''Camellya Bricked My Account'' or ''Prydwen's Tier List Has Problems'' were genuinely such fun and entertaining videos.
Saintontas, I liked your ranking list, but I think you really was wrong ranking Changli on every single list of these.. Just because it's hard to play her, that doesn't mean we should rank her lower because we all know that she can be so op if played correctly. The fact that Changli can be a sub-dps, a buffer, and a DPS makes her so versatile and not only that, but she also excels on all of these categories. In the sub-dps list, you ranked her below Yinlin, Zhizhi, Mortefi, and Sanhua and said that "Mortefi does tons of dmg", are you implying that those characters do more dmg than Changli? Impossible... even a poorly played Changli can do better than them, let alone a perfectly played one. I use her as a DPS, not a sub-dps, that's why I know that. You also ranked her below Encore on the DPS list which is unfair considering that Changli can be faster at speedrunning and clearing content than all characters in the game EXCEPT for Jinhsi and Camellya. (I use her as A DPS, S0R1 (0 copies of everything) with mid echoes, yet I cleared the hazard tower of both overdrive and hazard zones with her as a **SOLO** DPS with verina (2 characters, not 3) I also used her to beat the 100 HP (430%) challenge of illusive realms with massive ease... I also used her in team 2 with XYL for pincer's all floors and got the required points for all stages first try. How can a character that can clear and speedrun all content be ranked that low just bc some players can't play her well and by the way remember that she doesn't even have a good 4-cost echo or a good sub-dps to buff her unlike the other chars like Jinhsi.
Devs listen AND so does Saintontas! After his vid about Prydwen's tierlist, we asked him to make one of his own... and here it is! Great work!! For me this list is perfect! Well explained and the positions are justified. Hope you keep this and edit it in the future
The level of vertical investment is THE variable that makes a big difference. Say all you want on trying to time-coordinate your echo tuning but you can't 'cheat' your way into the RNG programming. Play the game often so you have more chances
I play on mobile and the thing that's annoying me the most is the swap buttons only show 2 characters not three and their placement gets reversed all the time which makes quick swaps a hell I wish we get an option in the settings that's make it like the pc where all three characters all have fixed places and show regardless of the on field
My question is, what are the really good players even doing in this game? I'm lvl 70 characters, union lvl 46 and I've pretty much clocked the game with very little to do now. These people have obviously been playing since the start, I've been playing for about 6 weeks.. Is there some secret island that is 10x the size of Hualong I don't know about?
probably 100% each section of the map, the endless grind to get better echo rolls 😂 UL 79 but played so damn casually haven't opened up all chests and sonance caskets also echo rolls are trash 😂😂😂 but yeah mostly just online commenting and arguing instead of clearing and completing stuff
Dunno, I guess min-maxing their chars just for the heck of it and like mentioned above, argue about tierlists and whatnot.😅 I'm also a very casual F2P day 1 player at lvl 68 union atm with 3 teams of lvl 90 chars and between the updates once I've finished the new stuff/collected the rewards from them I don't really do anything more than my dailies/burn off my plates for whatever material I'm low on. Still cleared pretty much all of the content that matters to me so eh I can't be arsed to care too much about the rest.
Definitely know what you mean with the Echo rolls 😵💫 and it is a good game to argue about.. everyones opinion on every aspect of this game seems to be different!
just a bit of opinion in yuan wu, hes better ran as a sustainer than an actual moonlit yuanwu is really only used in one team which in jinhsi and he is trash everywhere else, in that team, usually verina is the moonlit holder while yuanwu holds heal set and he uses a 3* gauntlet that allows self heal which procs heal set, this is due tot he fact that your never using his outro, ur just using him for his coordi and auto atk heal set. this team has the fastest team rotation out of all jinhsi team.
As someone who plays on mobile and usually solo with Changli, I can say for sure she's a Tier 0. I upload some Changli solo videos if you need proof how good she actually is 🥰 disclaimer; i got s2r1 tho but i make up for it with actual skills in combat
I'm just happy that you recognized LIngyang as being a solid B in DPS. Too many people dunk on him for not being devastating like Jiyan (or lacking the Crit boosts). Of course he's not as good as the crazy 5s out there, BUT he still does very good damage. He's basically the Hyperreal of WuWa: he's still good and worth using, but everyone else is either too cracked or has a particular set-up that makes them insane.
Jianxin does take field time but her damage is not bad if compared to a sub dps. And against a group of weaker enemy, ger forte could clear the field with its good aoe. And her shield is truly goated and her healing is also not bad. I would at least consider her to be a A ranker. She is also quite flexible with her resonance liberation outro boost.
So is Taoqi's Outro Skill "The incoming Resonator has their Resonance Skill DMG Amplified by 38% for 14s or until they are switched out" really just a C for Outro Buffers/Sub-DPS? Would have been nice to have a bit of discussion on her instead of nothing.
I mean you can just calculate her rotation time and see why she is C tier. Just because she buffs 38% Resonance Skill, doesn't mean your DPS will improve so much. Taoqi rotation takes more time that it actually hurts your team DPS. This problem is what makes Jinhsi Yuanwu Verina clears TOA faster than Jinhsi Taoqi Yuanwu. Also, the same reason can be applied to Changli. Changli Sanhua can clear TOA under 40s while Changli Taoqi can't. The fact that in the speedrun community, Changli can clear TOA faster with Sanhua that doesn't buff Resonance Skill shows the reason why Taoqi can't go into a higher tier. If Taoqi rotation is actually faster, let's say in the future we have healers that give concerto energy to the next character, then it's possible to increase her tier into B even A.
@@pramanakumalaputra507 Ah, thank you for adding more info that wasn't discussed in the video for Taoqi. How fast you reckon her rotation has to be for her to get max Resonance Energy to be more useful? (With 119.2% ER Taoqi gets max Resonance Energy in 10s which does seem slow)
But aren't we like making too much of a big deal to some little event like pincer maneuver warriors to affect an entire tierlist? Even if jinhsi is not as optimal in that mode you can easily band-aid that by slotting her in a dual-dps team or just filling in the gaps in her downtime. Or well just spam someone like camellya in all the stages because there's no limiting factor like vigor anyway, that event ain't as serious as your making it out to be. But overall a better tierlist than most out there.
@@neverhonors2688 i have no need to focus on a specific event like that when i can complete and get all the rewards in a single try or two. TOA ain't an exception either cuz i mostly one-tap everything and getting 30 stars is a breeze.
I didn't realize Pincer Maneuver Warriors was one of the hardest events we've ever had, I just kinda unga bungad the whole thing with jiyan hypercarry and xly/changli dual dps and somehow got all the rewards 😂
Yeah, I'm over invested so I may not have the same perspective as this tier list. Can someone explain wtf is meant by Jinhsi can't do PMW??? Also is PMW going to be a staple end game like ToA?
@Kryto_Gaming I think the point is PMW is one example of content that's different from ToA. It's multiwave content, so characters focused around burst damage generally aren't going to perform as well as characters with more sustained DPS.
@sfzndo Right, but in my experiance Jinhsi is just fine at multi wave content, and for me she even performs well. The video made it sound like she was nigh unusable. I wish it was backed up with some explanations even if there were no demonstrations.
The segment when talking about Verina and Shorekeepers spot in the tierlist was by FAR the best way I’ve heard that issue be worded. Game8 I’m ginna find you. They treated the S tier as if it was ‘best of the best’ for Sustain and ONLY sustain. You’re a meta centric website that encourages high investment in everything bar your tier list? Tis insane. A for Aalto is also based AF, mans is amazing and I will NOT be hearing slander on him.
I agree with your thoughts about Aalto but he is hard to use to get all his concerto energy which is what makes a lot of people generally underestimate him.
As chixia main I didn't expect chixia to be a sub dps her e6 buff is a good thing in general for verina or changli in the team more damage is more damage in general 15% isn't much but it can add up
in the sub-dps tier, i do think that Yinlin is better than Zhezhi since Yinlin can stack concerto energy way faster when there're multiple enemies compare to Zhezhi, which make the rotation alot quicker
Those high skill cap speedrunning clips are always welcome and you can also make a separate video or series showcasing wuwa's insane and stylish combat
She still is. The only reason He moved her to 4th was due to VALUE. There's an event or events where her kit won't be as easy to clear and this is the only reason.
@Smilehp7 saintontas doesn't play her well. Jinhsi has also grouping as part of her basic atks, and moreover her nuke is in a big area. I never have had problems with the nuke being inaccurate and only hitting "one enemy" as saintontas said
@@shinigami1176I’m a jinhsi main but even I have to agree with him. The only way to line up her nuke to kill a wave requires you to have to run around and re-position her. And even then it’s almost always an overkill wasting damage.😐
When it comes to value dps I would honestly put XY over Camellya even, cause like you said camellya has a few downsides if you dont know how to play her (Staying in blossom mode vs agile bosses and chasing them down, having to dodge, having "high" startup to get into her spinning state, etc.) while XY is not only super easy to play, his time slow downs also massively help not getting hit at all or preventing mobile bosses from running away. His damage may not be as high but I feel like a literal baby could clear anything with him by just pressing the funny glowing buttons and spamming basics in between.
I'm going to be honest if I look at a tier list than I expect to see the characters ranked at a place where they are played and built optimally. Having differing tier lists for different factors like skill floor and investement is to me redundant. Now I personally don't know how accurate Prydwen is in general since I do not own every character but I have probably played Changli almost exclusively since her release, so seeing her at the Top made sense as well as Jinshi. Even though my characters aren't optimally built and I don't use any real team comps (atm Jinshi, Changli and Camellya) I can still clear almost everything so far. That is why I personally find the differing Tier lists redundant because even some doofus like me with unoptimized shit can do almost everything.
IMO Taoqi can be A-rank sustainer/buffer for Jinhsi team comp due to her outro skill, resonance skill buff. However, the clunkiness and slow of her gameplay is lil' bit tricky. She doesn't fully fill the concerto bar in one go and how slow her attack animations also took a lot of time, which is bad in ToA and hologram bosses, BUT if you know how to do double concerto switch with Jinhsi passive then it becomes trivial to fill her concerto bar. You can also dodge attacks to fill her concerto bar quickly. This is of course with Discord rank 5 weapon and rejuvenating set with high energy regen build (250% ish). Her buff increases my Jinshi resonance skill damage from 200k to 300k damage, thus how valuable her buff is. It is funny that I beat most of the hologram bosses (except Mourning Aix) with Jinhsi team comp consist of Taoqi and Yuanwu. I got no heals but my entire health bar is shielded, Zhong Li mains be like.
i was thinking this way before until i tried compare jinhsi verina(moonlit) yuanwu vs jinhsi taoqi yuanwu. the result is jinhsi verina yuanwu can clear TOA faster than with taoqi despite with taoqi jinhsi can deal more dmg but slower rotation. Also you should consider the coordinate atk of verina ult with yuanwu tower can fill jinhsi forte much faster meaning you can do faster rotation
Im gonna need a better explanation for sub dps S. Sanhua also has her 20% ATK team buff plus her concerto being so quick. She also does decent damage even if its not off-field. I dont have Zhezhi but i do have Yinlin, and from what i recall she doesnt have any other buffs and her concerto is dogwater compared to Sanhua.
As a camellya main i pulled her because she's so fun and f2p to play. she doesn't even NEED her R1, S5 event weapon is good, Emerald of Genesis is amazing, i have verina so i could do Dual Dps instead of main, like a tag team between camellya and a second dps as it's fun as heck.
This has to be the best tier list i saw up until now, thank you for making it. I'm a sweaty player and I agree with everything in the video being a Calcharo Jiyan main.
@bursky09 not really Changli, Calcharo and Jiyan are placed perfectly in my view Jinhsi is and Camellya are easy compared to Calcharo and Changli and I agree with their placements where other tier lists put him down to B tier even C just cuz he's hard. But I don't disagree the sheer power of Jinhsi and Camellya either so yea there's not much I would change here.
@@Saren.7 Changli is BiS for most teams even Jinshi, for example in speed running Changli has more presence in top clears than Jinshi, I'm talking about being sweaty here. And as for more casual approach this list is not good but it doesn't really matter much.
@bursky09 well yea there's never a tier list that will appeal to all players and they're subjective anyway, everything has to be taken with a grain of salt. A person's playstyle detemins their dmg output in the end. I just enjoy the game and I like seeing how others come up with new ways to utilize and rotate in their playstyle.
Bro they shouldve added the skills calcharo has in illusive for his base character. He wouldve been so much better to play with. He has arguably the coolest skills in illusive.
I feel sad for Calcharo getting power crept like that… Because I genuinely think he’s one of the best good-looking character in the game. He feels like as if you’re playing with Sephiroth from Final Fantasy in WuWa… I really hope Kuro cook something for him in future patches 🙏🏻
In teams with Danjin you want to make sure you're making the most out of her 23% Havoc Amp outro skill by extending Hrover's field-time. This makes it feel odd in rotations to actually deal damage with a full-forte Chaoscleave on Danjin since you'll easily be at full concerto way before actually activating one.
I disagree that Jinhsi is unusable in certain game modes. So far the co op related modes is not even half the difficulty of TOA. You probably can clear with no stacks Jinhsi. Even in multi wave aoe scenarios, she has decent grouping and both her liberation and nuke skill have good aoe. You just have to time them correctly. Finally as someone who plays wuwa on mobile, dodging and parrying can have very off timing. Jinhsi can straight up ignore enemy moves while being high up in the air and comfortably clear stuff which in my opinion is very high on value. I just can't say the same for other dps as im more often get interrupted than i like to
Im gonna defend Taoqi's Honor even further, did everyone forgot she buffs 38% Skill DMG Bonus? Equip her with R5 Discord and Taoqi will become one of Changli's best Support in the game. I don't even have R5 Discord but I can say this, I always bring Taoqi for Changli in my Tower Runs and she massively boosts Changli's Flaming Sacrifice by a metric tons.that 38% Skill Damage Buff on Outro is nothing to scoff at if your On Fielder is a Skill Damage DPS.
Regarding Yuanwu, I played Yuanwu a bit, and in my experience, Yuanwu's Concerto Efficiency is bad because his main Concerto Generation is not his BA, Skill or Liberation, it's his Forte "Lightning Infused". Basically Lightning Infused is his 10 seconds "Main DPS" State where his Damage no longer scales off ATK but DEF. During this state he'll gain a lot of properties, mainly that his hits will break Vibration faster and he gains increased Poise allowing him to handle not being staggered. On top of that, hits that he does in his Lightning Infused State are the ones that generates most of his Concerto. There's a problem with this however, and that is that Yuanwu *CANNOT GENERATE HIS OWN FORTE WITH BASIC ATTACKS* . If I'm not mistaken, the only way he can gain Forte Circuit is by dropping Pillar, swap off and rely on other characters to do coordinated attacks. He can only gain his Forte via his Pillar's Coordinated attacks. In this regard his playstyle funnily enough reminds me to Dehya. That being said, Forte Circuit is not the only way Yuanwu can access his Lightning Infused state. His Liberation also makes him enter Lightning Infused state, so in theory, when you start Tower, you can start with Yuanwu Burst, Skill, then use Lightning Infused's unga bunga to generate Concerto with him. You have to make use of the full 10 seconds duration for it however.
you should also consider the overall team damage and rotation timing, taoqi might provide huge skill dmg bonus buff, but she is so slow gaining concerto that's why she has no concerto efficiency label, very clunky and deal no dmg. In the other hand, in his video has been said that Changli will deal damage with less time more efficiently if you have other dps that you can swap to. That's why she should be paired with other dps as well just like XY.
@@ThisIsPampkin About Yuanwu, he still not getting into the same level as Danjin, Sanhua, Yangyang, Mortefi, Aalto in term of concerto regeneration. You should try how fast they are at regenerating concerto, especially Sanhua.
@@neverhonors2688 I can only confirm for Mortefi and Sanhua for now, I have no idea how fast both of them can gain their Forte Circuit and Concerto. As for Changli and XLY, that'll have to wait for me, I havent finished building XLY yet. Got him to 80/90 with R1 Stonard at 70/70, but the rest of his talents and echoes are still copium. I'll see how good both are when paired after Im done building XLY.
@@neverhonors2688ngl i don't think her dmg is the problem, I have a fully built taoqi that easily does 120k in 5 seconds but yeah her concerto is genuinely what kills her. it's horrendous to work with, she's too reliant on intro skills too
48:56 that two CN videos that you shows here isn’t even the fastest clear video on Jiyan(plus Jinhsi & Shorekeeper team)😂 the one I’ve watched on CN social media ( short video platform), it’s done in 8 seconds with Shorekeeper, Jinhsi and Jiyan, and the damage output by Jinhsi is 350k, 930k and last is 390k by Jiyan ( PC gameplay)
10:06 Isn't Youhu's main damage type Resonance Skill?... so wouldn't Zhezhi be literally the perfect pick? Can anyone tell me why basic attacks are considered her main damage?
Prydwen needs to see this rather than taking and listening to popular opinions then again I don't give a damn about tierlist since I just enjoy the specific character I like by appearance and by their playstyle
What bothers me about most tier lists, is that they only go by dps. Jiyan is good at everything with no major downside what so ever. The fact that Jiyan was rated lower then Jinshi bothered me for a while
jinhsi is not bad at multi wave challenge tho, with zig zag rotation u can just spam her nuke switch in and switch out as fast as posible that's why jinhsi is so good, when a new coordinated healer arrive jinhsi can be played at dual dps team too and that team sure will be terrifying one 🙂
He did mention it in stream but he didn't include it cause chat was toxic about it 20% atk is great but still zhezhe and yinlin better then her in terms of there main teams let's be honest once we get a 5 star like them but they buff basic attack and havoc sanhua gonna be trash and let's not forget that sanhua dmg is very bad
8:30 bad take. They have been wuthering since day 1. It's an iconic feature. also Baizhi needs alot longer field time then Verina and getting the feather is often times not worth the hassle. It's hard to notice it especially if you are running around with all the hit effects happening.
Chixia works best with her literal actual story companions Baizhi and yangyang. Starting with Baizhi with her buffs -> swap to YangYang for resonance liberation battery and go ham with Chixia.
Bruh, Camellya gets interrupted even doing her mega skill nuke. And her delay in her hold ba either in red hair or white hair mode gets interrupted either by getting hit, or needing to dodge and starting over.. She requires micromanaging her pistils before doing a sanhua rotation to get her to do jinhsi dmg. She also requires shorekeeper to do jinhsi dmg where jinhsi only needs verina. Jinhsi also does fine in aoe.
this is insane skill issue, u don’t need to micromanage anything unless you want the PERFECT outcome which you can just give this argument to EVERY character in the game (including jinhsi) and sanhua “rotation” is basically instant, jinhsi also needs her support to do an (usually longer) rotation to do “jinhsi” damage and no camellya doesn’t “need” shorekeeper at all, your bias is showing…
Idk i find that with jinhsi i can save energy by going Jinhsi, Mortefi and Yuanwu for either Floor 1 of middle tower or floor 4 of a side tower. And that is super useful especially since its so easy to not die with Ults and Skills being invul giving my other teams allowance for Verina. With Mort and Yuanwu being 0 investment. Ofc this value will go down in the future unless they add more verticals of TOA which would be pretty cool if they give more free characters
![[FULL] RETROSPECTIVE : Final Fantasy Tactics](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RUBmYqs1jZ0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[FULL] RETROSPECTIVE : Final Fantasy Tactics](/img/tr.png)
Hey everyone, this is a 5 hour livestream condensed into a single video, so some of my explanation and input from chat isn't in the actual video but is in the placement of characters.
If you want to view the entire discussion, here's a link to the live: ruclips.net/user/liveuir0loMt-To
Just so you know, Prywden responded to Gacha Smack's criticisms over their tier list, but didn't even watch your video. So just like HSR, they just take popular opinions from a few big CCs and is basically a tier list that represents their opinion instead of getting out the truth.
These guys have the same views I don't see how gacha smack is a popular creator compared to this guy here?
Simply put I believe atleast one of the guys who works on prydwenn knows gacha smack and so they are just more likely to see his video as they run in that circle. If they don't see a video from someone they don't know how are they supposed to respond to it on any way?
@@EyesDontCrygacha smack is popular in general, while our guy here is mainly on wuwa only
@@EyesDontCry By popular, I was referring to sub count and game audience. This guy only covers WUWA essentially and Gacha Smack covers Wuwa and HSR.
If what you suggest is true about their relationship, then that is the problem I am pointing out. if you only subscribe and listen to a few close associates's opinion you are going to make a diasterous list like Prywden has over and over in both WUWA and HSR.
Prywden could literally just do simple google search to get opinions from outside their circle, no idea why we are giving them excuses. In fact you even pointed out both vids has currently the same views.
I am not even a subscriber of either channel but I got YT recommended from probably just search WUWA content.
@@HotPepperLala sub count doesn't matter, you could have a million subs from years of accumulation but still only 30k actually watch you the rest are just dead accounts who don't even tune in.
But aside from that, I think you might not understand what prydwenn even is. It's a small team of people who only really popped up when hsr came out because of their damage comparisons and tier lists. This isn't an actual institute or anything with authority, just a small group of people who collect data and make tier lists.
The reason I say this is not to deflect criticism but to contextualise the decision you have criticised. They don't have a ton of ways to gauge opinions. They do their data collection and make their lists but other than that they don't have extensive access to tons of poling data nor do they know what people to listen to in the online space. I don't think they even have social media accounts atleast ones that anyone follows.
The issue you have highlighted isn't easily solved in any particular way, the reason they might listen to someone like gacha smack isn't because of some insular insider circle where only a select few have a say, it's literally just "hey a guy we know who regularly covers our stuff criticised it, let's take into account what they said and see what we might have gotten wrong".
You are painting it in a way which makes it out as though these are some big wig corporate executives who are only beholden to their investors and shareholders, but the actual context is much less insidious and might help you to understand why they would listen to gacha smack and not this channel. It's not because they don't have enough clout as you seem to imply, it's just because they know gacha smack through previous interaction and therefore already have access to that avenue of critique.
I think your criticism is valid on principle, yes anyone should look to varied sources of information on anything but I think you're framing of them is inaccurate and inconsiderate to their circumstances as a small team with very little actual authority on anything. That's not to say they don't have influence, just that they aren't a be all end all on what's good and bad in the game they cover.
@@HotPepperLala for example you said they can just google, but Google what? Googling people's opinions on something won't tell you if you are right or not. You need targeted criticism, not a hodge podge of random ideas people have.
You can say their tier list is wrong, and that's a good thing. Opinion based information shouldn't aim to be right the first time it should aim to be as right as it can be. Nobody gets that first try, such mistakes are important and public scrutiny which you can gauge such as a youtube videos with likes and dislikes aswell as comments with likes and further discussion will all help achieve greater understanding.
Again this is a small team, mistakes are inevitable and it shouldn't be "how do we avoid these mistakes" it should be "how do we improve from the mistakes we do make" or in the case of opinions it's not even a mistake, just a matter of perspective and refining it by considering new perspectives and how those new perspectives can expand your overall understanding.
32:03 Danjin mains who solo bosses in TOA and Holograms
-" My friend, you don't know our potential"
I'm here still salty that Chixia wasn't in Duo list with she currently another best duo for Changli :(
Fair take.
I think I'd rank her similarly to Danjin in that her very big reliance on field time to actually deal meaningful damage gives her a lack of flexibility with characters who have very tight timing windows (Encore), which makes any team comp she's slotted in beg the question: would another character work better here? The answer to that question is oftentimes just, "yes".
@@saintontas also fair take.
Fair
@saintontas my take is that her role in changli isn't to make meaningful damage, but not steal time from either changli or the sustainer. She's perfectly fine swapping in between both to spend her one of the charges of the skill which has a low charge time as well as just receive the changli outro buff when her ult is up. Bonus points if you can do it with dodge counters cuz that damage is great. If thats all you do she has less field time than anyone except s6 sanhua
@@TheRedEyeChannel you don't really need her E when play her in Changli team just need to swap and aim to use her dodge counter instead. Or you don't need to maximize her E up time just do it to fill concerto bar. I think, Changli quick swap team just need so much APM and quick thinking to play. It is just too hard to average players base
unpopular opinion but
Zhezhi is actualy a Great main dps and in my opinion deserving to be above Lingyang.
and thats mostly because most of her dmg, almost all of it, is being considered basic attack dmg, Her on field damage rises to huge values combined with sanhua
Its a fun, fairly safe, and most importantly, Working playstyle (since im easly clearing the tower with it) that should deserve a little bit of attention
Nobodies opinion matters more than your own. Outside of entertainment purposes use who you want.
But we all agree Lingyang sucks NGL
Lingyang sucks and will always be suck for the future
True. I use changli as my dps and this guy i went into his world told me to change to a proper dps. Like bruh let me play who i want.
Lingyan is BS no matter what
As a Xiangli main, he really does work with almost everyone. I have him and Changli. I'm still building her and looking for a good character to support on her team
Use Changli with Sanhua, it's super smooth to play even if Changli don't use her Outro buff.
@mcbx3d Thanks, will try to build Sanhua next then
I love Xiangling
Yangyang is changli's easiest support. The resonance energy boost means you never have those awkward moments where you are basic attacking on changli.
Xiangli Yao works with almost everyone yes, but he loses a lot of DPS with many combinations. I run him straight up With Yinlin and Shorekeeper and he does insane with this combo.
Somehow this dude does no damage with Verina
Bro this tier list is incredible I almost agree with literally everything, your sub dps tier list fixed a lot of issues with theirs
Thank you for this. This tierlist is more authentic than Prydwen IMO because tou have in game experience with all characters and hands-on gameplay using the characters, along with explanations and nuanced usage of characters. Great job!
came here to say the same thing as a new player its really helpful to understand how valuable my character pool is
Prydwn is a hoyoshil website, they purposely made wuwa list wrong
Prydwn is a hoyoshil website, they purposely made wuwa list wrong
I can see noone has fucking played Spectro Rover since they finished the main quest in 1.0. The ammount of disrespect she gets is batshit insane. She does more consistent dmg than Havoc Rover while also being able to play quickswap really well and still gets put 2 tiers below Havoc or even forgotten. Also her c6 makes Shorekeeper outro hit 60k when played in a Shorekeeper-Rover-Changli quickswap setup.
For me spectro rover easy to use then havoc
Me trying to make it my spectro rover as my main DPS 😅
Spectro rover is shit if you are a dolphin or whale. If you are f2p yes it's good slightly lower than havoc due to the fact havoc have shorter rotations resulting in higher dps (echo instant vs spectro transformation delay)
@@polarqueen-fz8gq You realize these tierlists are for c0 limited units, right? Im not a whale but I have had bp and gemcard since the start and Spectro Rover has always been in my Tower clears. No dolphin or below has more than half of the current limited units, so Rover is used by many as an actual main dps or at least a sub dps battery. 100k bursts + another 50k misc dmg within 6secs + outro is nothing to laugh at for non-whales.
@@Windman1995f2p’s can pretty easily have over half the current limited roster. if you dont pull for weapons you could possibly get all of them with some luck. considering that a lot of limiteds have been dps, that just lowers spectro rovers value since she doesn’t work particularly well with any of them, nor does she outdamage them.
she’s fine, usable, maybe even good but there are almost always better options
"We need to fix Baizhi's animation"
*stops Baizhi from breathing*
Ma'am, your chest is aggressively staring at my eyes
LingYang is super F2P friendly, i cleared central part of ToA with him having lvl 70 4* weapon, Sanhua and Baizhi, also i have better supports for him i just wanted to see if he is actually capable of clearing the hardest content available FULLY F2P, and the answer is yes. He might not be the fastest, but for now he clears everything with just a decent build and Sanhua not even having 5* weapon to deal some damage, nor the healer with fast rotation, and if you put Verina to his team he'll be capable of clearing everything with ease. Calcharo is a bit clunky, I'd say they both are B tier. LingYang now has Crit weapon option and more than 1 really good sup-dps option, although i still can't say he is A tier even if i want
Changli is literally BiS for every relevant dual dps team though? There is no world where she's not unanimously rank 1 in that category lol. How is her "needing someone to swap to" seen as a negative and lowering her ranking here when the whole point of dual dps teams is to SWAP between the two of them aka she'll always have someone to swap to? This point literally made zero sense.
Yeah it was something that didn’t make sense to me in his last video either
Like for me if I put changli and yao it’s way better than Yao and yinlin
And the quick swap ain’t even hard since it has one of the best swap timinngs
Lmao my Yao, changli, baizhi performes a lot better than my jinhsi team be it jinhsi , yinlin , verina or jinhsi yinlin , SK
But yeah I don’t have jinhsi’s sig while I have Yao’s sig and S1 ……
Her lack of flexibility is the main downside when compared to every other dual DPS character, who can be played at similar efficiency in other teams, with far less resources.
Changli, in all honesty, requires "more" investment than every other character in the game. If she's paired with someone who isn't built, your team sucks.
If Camellya, Jiyan, or XLY have a sub-dps who isn't built, their teams are still fine but miss like 5-10% of their DPS.
Changli's lack of 'efficiency' in my eyes, degrades her ranking.
@@Sthhuihryjbtijhuijnn Yeah, same with Catapulta and Changli or California and XY. They're better with another DPS than with Yinlin due their long animations.
@@saintontas the team comp is for dual dps, ofcourse you need to build the 2 dps, why you run dual dps comp when the other dps is not build?
Because a tier list is not just about damage. EVERY factor matters, He explained it
My tierlist only has 2 tiers.
The Lord: Rover
The Other: Everyone else
First of all, rlly nice job. This is rlly good and complete tier list, with good explanations in general. But I have some considerations:
About the Dual DPS:
-I think that you should consider put Chixia in B tier in the Dual DPS list too, since her best team it's with Changli, that it's a Dual DPS characters. Chixia's E it's good and easy to swap and her "DPS time" have short duration like H Rover and Encore.
-And I don't think that your motive to put Xiangli Yao in front of Changli in the Dual DPS it's valid, if we are talking about DPS ok it's fair, but in Dual DPS it's normal to swap.
Now about the Speedrun tier list:
-I think that Changli should be S tier too. I like to watch one channel in the bilibili that do a compiled of the top10 fastest speedruns vs one boss in the TOA at S0R1 after almost every reset, in this Top 10 Shorekeeper tends to appears in 7 to 9 teams, Changli in 4 to 5 teams, Jinhsi in 2 to 3 teams. Changli appears in more teams than Jinhsi and in the top 5 teams normally 3 are teams that have Changli, so I think that if fair to put her in S tier.
-I would put Xiangli Yao in the first or second place of the A tier since, Xiangli Yao's clear times with the time started to become faster than Encore's teams and sometimes he even clear faster than Jinhsi.
Interesting video, even if the title of the video is pure bait, you are not "fixing" anything, you are just replacing Prydwen bias for your own, the more obvious being the "value" tier list, but the dual DPS was pretty bad as well, for example the lack of the coordinate attack characters there feels odd, why are they excluded? Because you also have them in the sub/DPS? Cant be, you also have Danjin and Changli in both tier lists
28:15 Why would you put moonlit to changli? 😂 why would you even think that? Sub dps does not mean moonlit user.
Changli is literally the strongest "Sub" DPS on that list in terms of damage.
And sanhua is the strongest in terms of buffs and field time and availability.
Changli, xiangli yao, verina QS gameplay is literally one of the strongest team in the game. You can look it up yourself.
Sanhua, camellya, SK.
Burst.
Xiangli yao, yinlin and SK is good too but yinlin is only at full power with xiangli yao while sanhua can support other characters in full power like encore or h Rover without wasting other buffs.
Mort can only buff one character in full power and prankly jiyan mort is not as strong as yinlin xiangli yao and sanhua camellya or changli xiangli yao.
The only problem in changli xiangli yao is your skill issues since you need to practice it to use it effectively.
In conclusion play who you want cause tierlist don’t matter.
Re: Changli and Mortefi--you're right. Mortefi in Illusive Realm (where you can pretty much turn him into a 5-star) really reveals the DPS potential he has. Insanely comfortable way to melt things as a distance without the animation-locks that poor Encore has. Mortefi, AOE wise, also knocks down enemies with his skill and does a fair bit of CC. Interrupts don't bother him the way they do Chixia. I wouldn't mind if Kuro made a 5-star version of him for us in the future :D
Re: Zhezhi and Yinlin not being main DPS character--you're also 100% right. They're best with the coordinated attack factor of off-field damage. Yinlin, especially, has an incredibly fast ultimate recharge so you can swap her in, ult, concerto, and outro skill incredibly fast.
Re: Chixia and Danjin--I think they fit the important niche of solo clearing which other DPS characters (except maybe a pro Calcharo???) can't really do. In a team setting though where you ranked them is 100% right.
Re: our DPS characters--Jinhsi at S1 hit 500k for me. Camellya, same sequences, same 300% CD, I can't optimize because her lack of mobility is an issue. You're right about Jinhsi's small application value though. I would say Jiyan is better as the single DPS you should have given the amount of Havoc and Electro resitant enemies you have and the fact that he has a ton more mobility than Camellya. He also has a really fast recharge if you get his S1. The rest of it is perfect tho haha xD
Re: dual DPS--a Xiangli Yao and Changli dual dps team is genuinely one of the most comfortable quick swap teams. They time with each other perfectly. Like I swear Kuro made them to work this way because the ult recharges are identical and you can do Changli heavy --> Ult --> heavy --> XY intro --> Ult --> skill to freeze --> Changli again... blah blah. It's perfect
It's like they just put together a tier list for the sake of making a tier list but tbf to them WuWa's roster is full of nuances. Standardizing the stipulations will not improve it's accuracy in fact ignoring specific synergies and nuances will just decrease it's reliability
Prydwen just reacted on Gacha Smack's video tierlist. They said they are going to change it next week
Proof?
@@turtleez7086 Prydwen made a comment on Gacha Smack's video stating so
@@turtleez7086go check his comment section, prydwen comment is pinned
Youhu is a support at S0 and a not so good sub dps. The more resonance chains you get the better she becomes at sub dps. If you want to run Youhu support with Sanhua sub dps and Zhezhi Main dps you would need to use Youhu then outro to Zhezhi for her liberation, swap to Sanhua and outro back to Zhezhi now you have full buff on Zhezhi with full forte. Yes you can clear all content with this team and it’s easy to play.
After this video i understood every character kit it's actually crazy btw what's up with that CN gameplay 😮
For the section where you show the speedrun gameplay, i can tell your audio/voice is more quiet, i'll say that (if you wanted/cared) you could look into "ultimate vocal remover", its used to separate/split audio into like vocals/instrumentals/etc, so you could extract your vocal audio for that section, then just reinsert it back into the timeline/editing software, so your still the same volume but the loud gameplay isn't. (I'm not trying to tell you how to edit or anything, sorry if this comes off rude/etc).
Ur take w Changli dual dps is kinda just bad. She is the best at dual dps. This should not even be a question. More dual dps teams use Changli. We cannot question builds on a tier list called "dual dps". "Changli is only viable as a dual dps makes her limited", thats not what u judge on a "dual dps" tier list.
Agree more or less with the rest.
Prydwen also f'd up some other games, one example being ZZZ's, where every single 4-star is considered to always be tier 1 and up, like there's no viable 4-star to be built despite there is actually some good 4-stars in the game. Lucy, Nicole, Piper, Seth is currently the meta but Prydwen won't even consider them in the tier list so it definitely pisses me off lol
Ssth is meta? Dang. He seems real clunky and bad to my brother and I. None of us have even bothered to build him; mine's still sitting at 1/10. We use Ben over him.
@XenoWars Well, sounds like you should give him a chance
As a Day 1 Jinshi owner the only thing I struggle with her is the fact that charging her Nuke to Max just takes time, either my build is is weird or I have skill issue or whatever idk personally 😐
you need a coordinated atk unit to charge her forte
You need sub dps that had coordinated atk
Use Yanwu Verina with her they can easily recharge her forte circuit or instead of Yanwu use Zhezi
These names are hard to remember
Get the painting lady. For the 6 star it's worth it. Unless it's a spectro boss I don't even care who the boss is I will win with 3 star and I only mash button.
Its very ez w zhezhi and yuanwu by the time u outro w zhezhi she has full forte
Please upload more videos of yours on stream, edited VODs for example. Your personality is genuinely so great and entertaining on-stream.
Like the video ''Camellya Bricked My Account'' or ''Prydwen's Tier List Has Problems'' were genuinely such fun and entertaining videos.
Saintontas, I liked your ranking list, but I think you really was wrong ranking Changli on every single list of these.. Just because it's hard to play her, that doesn't mean we should rank her lower because we all know that she can be so op if played correctly. The fact that Changli can be a sub-dps, a buffer, and a DPS makes her so versatile and not only that, but she also excels on all of these categories. In the sub-dps list, you ranked her below Yinlin, Zhizhi, Mortefi, and Sanhua and said that "Mortefi does tons of dmg", are you implying that those characters do more dmg than Changli? Impossible... even a poorly played Changli can do better than them, let alone a perfectly played one. I use her as a DPS, not a sub-dps, that's why I know that. You also ranked her below Encore on the DPS list which is unfair considering that Changli can be faster at speedrunning and clearing content than all characters in the game EXCEPT for Jinhsi and Camellya. (I use her as A DPS, S0R1 (0 copies of everything) with mid echoes, yet I cleared the hazard tower of both overdrive and hazard zones with her as a **SOLO** DPS with verina (2 characters, not 3) I also used her to beat the 100 HP (430%) challenge of illusive realms with massive ease... I also used her in team 2 with XYL for pincer's all floors and got the required points for all stages first try. How can a character that can clear and speedrun all content be ranked that low just bc some players can't play her well and by the way remember that she doesn't even have a good 4-cost echo or a good sub-dps to buff her unlike the other chars like Jinhsi.
47:09 As a mobile player, even if I achieve this kind of gameplay I'm afraid I might break my phone 😐💀
i just got back into wuwa after leaving on jinhsi's banner and this video is really helpful!!! thank you!
Devs listen AND so does Saintontas! After his vid about Prydwen's tierlist, we asked him to make one of his own... and here it is!
Great work!! For me this list is perfect! Well explained and the positions are justified. Hope you keep this and edit it in the future
The level of vertical investment is THE variable that makes a big difference. Say all you want on trying to time-coordinate your echo tuning but you can't 'cheat' your way into the RNG programming. Play the game often so you have more chances
I play on mobile and the thing that's annoying me the most is the swap buttons only show 2 characters not three and their placement gets reversed all the time which makes quick swaps a hell
I wish we get an option in the settings that's make it like the pc where all three characters all have fixed places and show regardless of the on field
My question is, what are the really good players even doing in this game? I'm lvl 70 characters, union lvl 46 and I've pretty much clocked the game with very little to do now. These people have obviously been playing since the start, I've been playing for about 6 weeks.. Is there some secret island that is 10x the size of Hualong I don't know about?
Thats easy. you come to the youtube comments to argue, like the rest of us
Hehe, great answer mate. That cracks me up 😂
probably 100% each section of the map, the endless grind to get better echo rolls 😂
UL 79 but played so damn casually haven't opened up all chests and sonance caskets also echo rolls are trash 😂😂😂
but yeah mostly just online commenting and arguing instead of clearing and completing stuff
Dunno, I guess min-maxing their chars just for the heck of it and like mentioned above, argue about tierlists and whatnot.😅
I'm also a very casual F2P day 1 player at lvl 68 union atm with 3 teams of lvl 90 chars and between the updates once I've finished the new stuff/collected the rewards from them I don't really do anything more than my dailies/burn off my plates for whatever material I'm low on.
Still cleared pretty much all of the content that matters to me so eh I can't be arsed to care too much about the rest.
Definitely know what you mean with the Echo rolls 😵💫 and it is a good game to argue about.. everyones opinion on every aspect of this game seems to be different!
Thank you for doing this man nothing against the boys at prydwen this list was DOGWATER
surprise you just discovered baizhi’s menu “idle animation “
we needed that ngl
Man made a whole video just to put every DPS in S. Prydwen has a job for you!
just a bit of opinion in yuan wu, hes better ran as a sustainer than an actual moonlit
yuanwu is really only used in one team which in jinhsi and he is trash everywhere else, in that team, usually verina is the moonlit holder while yuanwu holds heal set and he uses a 3* gauntlet that allows self heal which procs heal set, this is due tot he fact that your never using his outro, ur just using him for his coordi and auto atk heal set.
this team has the fastest team rotation out of all jinhsi team.
ZE MAN OF WUWA, ZE GLAZER OF THE PEAK OF GACHA GAMING, SAAAIIIINNNTTTTTOOOONNNNTTTTAAAAAASSSSSS
LingYang can clear ToA in less than a minute with S0 Shorekeeper and Sanhua/Zhezhi!!!!!
As someone who plays on mobile and usually solo with Changli, I can say for sure she's a Tier 0. I upload some Changli solo videos if you need proof how good she actually is 🥰 disclaimer; i got s2r1 tho but i make up for it with actual skills in combat
Bro have skill issue that's all
All limited characters used to be S0R1. Having S2R1 Changli is a HUGE advantage over S0R1
As someone who uses dps verina, I can say for sure she is s-tier in the dps category💀. I hope you get my point.
@@Eidolon777 your point is making a healer a dps? Sure.
@@ivnkvn561 I am saying your own anecdote isn’t always the truth, there also might be bias on top of that. Also, s2 and s0 are very different
I cleared ToA central part with LingYang in 52 seconds
I see zhezhi i click im a simple man
I dont see zhezhi in ths thumbnail?
?
everyone shut up, i saw zhezhi in my mind shes s tier everytime
@@KrrDemii So you clicked in your mind too?
Bro is schizophrenic
You underestimate Zhezhi as a Main Dps !
This is the first tier list that I agree with everything, good job on explaining everything.
I'm just happy that you recognized LIngyang as being a solid B in DPS. Too many people dunk on him for not being devastating like Jiyan (or lacking the Crit boosts). Of course he's not as good as the crazy 5s out there, BUT he still does very good damage. He's basically the Hyperreal of WuWa: he's still good and worth using, but everyone else is either too cracked or has a particular set-up that makes them insane.
Jianxin does take field time but her damage is not bad if compared to a sub dps. And against a group of weaker enemy, ger forte could clear the field with its good aoe. And her shield is truly goated and her healing is also not bad. I would at least consider her to be a A ranker. She is also quite flexible with her resonance liberation outro boost.
So is Taoqi's Outro Skill "The incoming Resonator has their Resonance Skill DMG Amplified by 38% for 14s or until they are switched out" really just a C for Outro Buffers/Sub-DPS? Would have been nice to have a bit of discussion on her instead of nothing.
I mean you can just calculate her rotation time and see why she is C tier.
Just because she buffs 38% Resonance Skill, doesn't mean your DPS will improve so much.
Taoqi rotation takes more time that it actually hurts your team DPS.
This problem is what makes Jinhsi Yuanwu Verina clears TOA faster than Jinhsi Taoqi Yuanwu.
Also, the same reason can be applied to Changli. Changli Sanhua can clear TOA under 40s while Changli Taoqi can't.
The fact that in the speedrun community, Changli can clear TOA faster with Sanhua that doesn't buff Resonance Skill shows the reason why Taoqi can't go into a higher tier.
If Taoqi rotation is actually faster, let's say in the future we have healers that give concerto energy to the next character, then it's possible to increase her tier into B even A.
@@pramanakumalaputra507 Ah, thank you for adding more info that wasn't discussed in the video for Taoqi. How fast you reckon her rotation has to be for her to get max Resonance Energy to be more useful? (With 119.2% ER Taoqi gets max Resonance Energy in 10s which does seem slow)
But aren't we like making too much of a big deal to some little event like pincer maneuver warriors to affect an entire tierlist? Even if jinhsi is not as optimal in that mode you can easily band-aid that by slotting her in a dual-dps team or just filling in the gaps in her downtime. Or well just spam someone like camellya in all the stages because there's no limiting factor like vigor anyway, that event ain't as serious as your making it out to be. But overall a better tierlist than most out there.
then you dont have to consider the tier list affected by other content than TOA if that is the only thing you focus at
@@neverhonors2688 i have no need to focus on a specific event like that when i can complete and get all the rewards in a single try or two. TOA ain't an exception either cuz i mostly one-tap everything and getting 30 stars is a breeze.
Great video man, i can't believe how much the skillcap of this game is way higher than i thought
I didn't realize Pincer Maneuver Warriors was one of the hardest events we've ever had, I just kinda unga bungad the whole thing with jiyan hypercarry and xly/changli dual dps and somehow got all the rewards 😂
Yeah, I'm over invested so I may not have the same perspective as this tier list. Can someone explain wtf is meant by Jinhsi can't do PMW??? Also is PMW going to be a staple end game like ToA?
@Kryto_Gaming I think the point is PMW is one example of content that's different from ToA. It's multiwave content, so characters focused around burst damage generally aren't going to perform as well as characters with more sustained DPS.
@sfzndo Right, but in my experiance Jinhsi is just fine at multi wave content, and for me she even performs well. The video made it sound like she was nigh unusable. I wish it was backed up with some explanations even if there were no demonstrations.
The segment when talking about Verina and Shorekeepers spot in the tierlist was by FAR the best way I’ve heard that issue be worded. Game8 I’m ginna find you. They treated the S tier as if it was ‘best of the best’ for Sustain and ONLY sustain. You’re a meta centric website that encourages high investment in everything bar your tier list? Tis insane.
A for Aalto is also based AF, mans is amazing and I will NOT be hearing slander on him.
The longest tier list video ever....Let me get ready 🍿
Bruh i'm only 2min in the video and i see this 💀
i love how encore is just there most of the time without much explanation, just simply one of the best lol
I will still say LingYang is underrated
I agree he should be deleted from the game he is too powerful
@@Mr.MoriartyXIII agreed brother he is so powerful enemies just leave ToA when they see him
I agree with your thoughts about Aalto but he is hard to use to get all his concerto energy which is what makes a lot of people generally underestimate him.
As chixia main I didn't expect chixia to be a sub dps her e6 buff is a good thing in general for verina or changli in the team more damage is more damage in general 15% isn't much but it can add up
in the sub-dps tier, i do think that Yinlin is better than Zhezhi since Yinlin can stack concerto energy way faster when there're multiple enemies compare to Zhezhi, which make the rotation alot quicker
Those high skill cap speedrunning clips are always welcome and you can also make a separate video or series showcasing wuwa's insane and stylish combat
Still think Jinhsi is same level as Camellya
She still is. The only reason He moved her to 4th was due to VALUE. There's an event or events where her kit won't be as easy to clear and this is the only reason.
@Smilehp7 saintontas doesn't play her well. Jinhsi has also grouping as part of her basic atks, and moreover her nuke is in a big area. I never have had problems with the nuke being inaccurate and only hitting "one enemy" as saintontas said
@@Smilehp7what events exactly does she not excel?
love how calchero fuses with his echo and just raw dogs his battles
Xiangli Yao getting the respect he deserves. Based tier list
no way jinhsi is that low, should be 2nd at least
He's talking about VALUE. Do people not listen.
@Smilehp7 yeah I got that, but I don't think Jiyan has more value than Jinhsi, but Xiangli Yao yeah I think he's pretty good
@@shinigami1176I’m a jinhsi main but even I have to agree with him. The only way to line up her nuke to kill a wave requires you to have to run around and re-position her. And even then it’s almost always an overkill wasting damage.😐
If you don't have her main weapon her forte charge is so slow.
@@Eidolon777 not wasted when you can deal 350K damage in a single hit
When it comes to value dps I would honestly put XY over Camellya even, cause like you said camellya has a few downsides if you dont know how to play her (Staying in blossom mode vs agile bosses and chasing them down, having to dodge, having "high" startup to get into her spinning state, etc.) while XY is not only super easy to play, his time slow downs also massively help not getting hit at all or preventing mobile bosses from running away. His damage may not be as high but I feel like a literal baby could clear anything with him by just pressing the funny glowing buttons and spamming basics in between.
I'm going to be honest if I look at a tier list than I expect to see the characters ranked at a place where they are played and built optimally. Having differing tier lists for different factors like skill floor and investement is to me redundant. Now I personally don't know how accurate Prydwen is in general since I do not own every character but I have probably played Changli almost exclusively since her release, so seeing her at the Top made sense as well as Jinshi. Even though my characters aren't optimally built and I don't use any real team comps (atm Jinshi, Changli and Camellya) I can still clear almost everything so far. That is why I personally find the differing Tier lists redundant because even some doofus like me with unoptimized shit can do almost everything.
IMO Taoqi can be A-rank sustainer/buffer for Jinhsi team comp due to her outro skill, resonance skill buff. However, the clunkiness and slow of her gameplay is lil' bit tricky.
She doesn't fully fill the concerto bar in one go and how slow her attack animations also took a lot of time, which is bad in ToA and hologram bosses, BUT if you know how to do double concerto switch with Jinhsi passive then it becomes trivial to fill her concerto bar. You can also dodge attacks to fill her concerto bar quickly.
This is of course with Discord rank 5 weapon and rejuvenating set with high energy regen build (250% ish). Her buff increases my Jinshi resonance skill damage from 200k to 300k damage, thus how valuable her buff is. It is funny that I beat most of the hologram bosses (except Mourning Aix) with Jinhsi team comp consist of Taoqi and Yuanwu. I got no heals but my entire health bar is shielded, Zhong Li mains be like.
i was thinking this way before until i tried compare jinhsi verina(moonlit) yuanwu vs jinhsi taoqi yuanwu. the result is jinhsi verina yuanwu can clear TOA faster than with taoqi despite with taoqi jinhsi can deal more dmg but slower rotation. Also you should consider the coordinate atk of verina ult with yuanwu tower can fill jinhsi forte much faster meaning you can do faster rotation
Im gonna need a better explanation for sub dps S. Sanhua also has her 20% ATK team buff plus her concerto being so quick. She also does decent damage even if its not off-field. I dont have Zhezhi but i do have Yinlin, and from what i recall she doesnt have any other buffs and her concerto is dogwater compared to Sanhua.
As a camellya main i pulled her because she's so fun and f2p to play. she doesn't even NEED her R1, S5 event weapon is good, Emerald of Genesis is amazing, i have verina so i could do Dual Dps instead of main, like a tag team between camellya and a second dps as it's fun as heck.
Prydwen. Been cooked. Even in other games, they dont reevaluate other units properly, leaving old units in places that makes 0 sense.
This has to be the best tier list i saw up until now, thank you for making it. I'm a sweaty player and I agree with everything in the video being a Calcharo Jiyan main.
If you're a sweaty player this tier is pretty bad.
@bursky09 not really Changli, Calcharo and Jiyan are placed perfectly in my view Jinhsi is and Camellya are easy compared to Calcharo and Changli and I agree with their placements where other tier lists put him down to B tier even C just cuz he's hard. But I don't disagree the sheer power of Jinhsi and Camellya either so yea there's not much I would change here.
@@Saren.7 Changli is BiS for most teams even Jinshi, for example in speed running Changli has more presence in top clears than Jinshi, I'm talking about being sweaty here. And as for more casual approach this list is not good but it doesn't really matter much.
@bursky09 well yea there's never a tier list that will appeal to all players and they're subjective anyway, everything has to be taken with a grain of salt. A person's playstyle detemins their dmg output in the end. I just enjoy the game and I like seeing how others come up with new ways to utilize and rotate in their playstyle.
Baizhi will be Carlotta BiS because leak info says Carlotta very agile so she can pick up Baizhi bubble so fast
Bro they shouldve added the skills calcharo has in illusive for his base character. He wouldve been so much better to play with. He has arguably the coolest skills in illusive.
I feel sad for Calcharo getting power crept like that…
Because I genuinely think he’s one of the best good-looking character in the game.
He feels like as if you’re playing with Sephiroth from Final Fantasy in WuWa…
I really hope Kuro cook something for him in future patches 🙏🏻
i swear those speed runs just looked like 3 people playing at once i couldnt even keep up
this type of the tier list is the best tier list for wuwa...amazing job
Havoc Rover definitely doesn’t need a lot of field time, her main thing is being a liberation energy regen machine that doesn’t take much field time
In teams with Danjin you want to make sure you're making the most out of her 23% Havoc Amp outro skill by extending Hrover's field-time.
This makes it feel odd in rotations to actually deal damage with a full-forte Chaoscleave on Danjin since you'll easily be at full concerto way before actually activating one.
I disagree that Jinhsi is unusable in certain game modes. So far the co op related modes is not even half the difficulty of TOA. You probably can clear with no stacks Jinhsi. Even in multi wave aoe scenarios, she has decent grouping and both her liberation and nuke skill have good aoe. You just have to time them correctly.
Finally as someone who plays wuwa on mobile, dodging and parrying can have very off timing. Jinhsi can straight up ignore enemy moves while being high up in the air and comfortably clear stuff which in my opinion is very high on value. I just can't say the same for other dps as im more often get interrupted than i like to
Im gonna defend Taoqi's Honor even further, did everyone forgot she buffs 38% Skill DMG Bonus? Equip her with R5 Discord and Taoqi will become one of Changli's best Support in the game. I don't even have R5 Discord but I can say this, I always bring Taoqi for Changli in my Tower Runs and she massively boosts Changli's Flaming Sacrifice by a metric tons.that 38% Skill Damage Buff on Outro is nothing to scoff at if your On Fielder is a Skill Damage DPS.
Regarding Yuanwu,
I played Yuanwu a bit, and in my experience, Yuanwu's Concerto Efficiency is bad because his main Concerto Generation is not his BA, Skill or Liberation, it's his Forte "Lightning Infused".
Basically Lightning Infused is his 10 seconds "Main DPS" State where his Damage no longer scales off ATK but DEF. During this state he'll gain a lot of properties, mainly that his hits will break Vibration faster and he gains increased Poise allowing him to handle not being staggered. On top of that, hits that he does in his Lightning Infused State are the ones that generates most of his Concerto.
There's a problem with this however, and that is that Yuanwu *CANNOT GENERATE HIS OWN FORTE WITH BASIC ATTACKS* . If I'm not mistaken, the only way he can gain Forte Circuit is by dropping Pillar, swap off and rely on other characters to do coordinated attacks. He can only gain his Forte via his Pillar's Coordinated attacks. In this regard his playstyle funnily enough reminds me to Dehya.
That being said, Forte Circuit is not the only way Yuanwu can access his Lightning Infused state. His Liberation also makes him enter Lightning Infused state, so in theory, when you start Tower, you can start with Yuanwu Burst, Skill, then use Lightning Infused's unga bunga to generate Concerto with him. You have to make use of the full 10 seconds duration for it however.
you should also consider the overall team damage and rotation timing, taoqi might provide huge skill dmg bonus buff, but she is so slow gaining concerto that's why she has no concerto efficiency label, very clunky and deal no dmg.
In the other hand, in his video has been said that Changli will deal damage with less time more efficiently if you have other dps that you can swap to. That's why she should be paired with other dps as well just like XY.
@@ThisIsPampkin About Yuanwu, he still not getting into the same level as Danjin, Sanhua, Yangyang, Mortefi, Aalto in term of concerto regeneration. You should try how fast they are at regenerating concerto, especially Sanhua.
@@neverhonors2688 I can only confirm for Mortefi and Sanhua for now, I have no idea how fast both of them can gain their Forte Circuit and Concerto.
As for Changli and XLY, that'll have to wait for me, I havent finished building XLY yet. Got him to 80/90 with R1 Stonard at 70/70, but the rest of his talents and echoes are still copium. I'll see how good both are when paired after Im done building XLY.
@@neverhonors2688ngl i don't think her dmg is the problem, I have a fully built taoqi that easily does 120k in 5 seconds but yeah her concerto is genuinely what kills her. it's horrendous to work with, she's too reliant on intro skills too
One day I'll speedrun ToA in less than 45 seconds with LingYang
48:56 that two CN videos that you shows here isn’t even the fastest clear video on Jiyan(plus Jinhsi & Shorekeeper team)😂 the one I’ve watched on CN social media ( short video platform), it’s done in 8 seconds with Shorekeeper, Jinhsi and Jiyan, and the damage output by Jinhsi is 350k, 930k and last is 390k by Jiyan ( PC gameplay)
And then there also Jiyan, Mortefi and Shorekeeper team, 16 seconds finished Scar in ToA 😅
10:06 Isn't Youhu's main damage type Resonance Skill?... so wouldn't Zhezhi be literally the perfect pick? Can anyone tell me why basic attacks are considered her main damage?
Youhu having ATK sequences makes sense to a degree because her heals scale off her ATK but crit is definitely odd
Prydwen needs to see this rather than taking and listening to popular opinions then again I don't give a damn about tierlist since I just enjoy the specific character I like by appearance and by their playstyle
Main DPS hypercarry Changli with Zhezhi is a competitive team to Jiyan Mortefi and others that you completely neglected to mention or account for.
Me with my yuanwu as rejuvenation set trigger 👁️👄👁️
What bothers me about most tier lists, is that they only go by dps. Jiyan is good at everything with no major downside what so ever. The fact that Jiyan was rated lower then Jinshi bothered me for a while
jinhsi is not bad at multi wave challenge tho, with zig zag rotation u can just spam her nuke switch in and switch out as fast as posible that's why jinhsi is so good, when a new coordinated healer arrive jinhsi can be played at dual dps team too and that team sure will be terrifying one 🙂
she isn’t useless at multi wave, but it’s just a fact that she’s one of the worst dps at multi-wave content
Baizhi has a REVIVE , which is actually epic! So useful
48:17 avg PGR rotation in warzone 💀
9:39 how cool it will be to have a 5 star character dps that uses Coordinated attacks as a main damage source🤣
What about the 20% atk that you get from sanhua c6 and she is 4 star so people will get it eventually . i already have it .
He did mention it in stream but he didn't include it cause chat was toxic about it 20% atk is great but still zhezhe and yinlin better then her in terms of there main teams let's be honest once we get a 5 star like them but they buff basic attack and havoc sanhua gonna be trash and let's not forget that sanhua dmg is very bad
@@Mr.MoriartyXIII i see ty , that suckes that people cant talk about tier list without being toxic .
8:30 bad take. They have been wuthering since day 1. It's an iconic feature.
also Baizhi needs alot longer field time then Verina and getting the feather is often times not worth the hassle. It's hard to notice it especially if you are running around with all the hit effects happening.
Watched live, but i'll watch again~
[edit - Though the constant "hey, over here!" following notifications is still very annoying imo]
Already learned from it and turned off alerts for content like this 😂
That calcharo video is really unbelievable, like are we really playing the same game?
The Speed runs looked like a co op game holy shit.
Everyone is on field the whole time.
Chixia works best with her literal actual story companions Baizhi and yangyang.
Starting with Baizhi with her buffs -> swap to YangYang for resonance liberation battery and go ham with Chixia.
Bruh, Camellya gets interrupted even doing her mega skill nuke. And her delay in her hold ba either in red hair or white hair mode gets interrupted either by getting hit, or needing to dodge and starting over.. She requires micromanaging her pistils before doing a sanhua rotation to get her to do jinhsi dmg. She also requires shorekeeper to do jinhsi dmg where jinhsi only needs verina. Jinhsi also does fine in aoe.
this is insane skill issue, u don’t need to micromanage anything unless you want the PERFECT outcome which you can just give this argument to EVERY character in the game (including jinhsi) and sanhua “rotation” is basically instant, jinhsi also needs her support to do an (usually longer) rotation to do “jinhsi” damage and no camellya doesn’t “need” shorekeeper at all, your bias is showing…
Lets goo! Didnt get to finish watching the stream, so happy for the vid
Idk i find that with jinhsi i can save energy by going Jinhsi, Mortefi and Yuanwu for either Floor 1 of middle tower or floor 4 of a side tower. And that is super useful especially since its so easy to not die with Ults and Skills being invul giving my other teams allowance for Verina. With Mort and Yuanwu being 0 investment. Ofc this value will go down in the future unless they add more verticals of TOA which would be pretty cool if they give more free characters