Angel Talk || s1e22 "To Shanshu in LA"
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
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The Darla cliffhanger REALLY shocked me first watch. I see why they reintroduced her in flashbacks a couple times in S1 to refamilizse viewers with her before her resurrection.
Your excitement is 100% deserved. Darla, imo, is one of THE most interesting Buffyverse characters. (really the whole Whirlwind is phenomenal.)
She is much more interesting in Angel than she was in Buffy.
@@ItsMeBarnaby True enough.
@@ItsMeBarnabyThe show basically gave these characters more to do that they didn’t have time to do on Buffy
I love how Angel stood up for himself during his confrontation with Kate. It really showcases his growth as a character
It's like when he stood up to Buffy
@@spikesecho724 Yeah, it's not really that much growth, he's always had a point he wouldn't let himself be pushed behind in his series.
I enjoyed that scene with Kate too. Angel has been letting her slide on her shit behaviour due to her grief, but she went too far here, and he pushed back hard. I love that last line "You wanna be enemies.... try me." Kate might've thought she knows who Angel is.... she has NO idea, and she reeeeaaally doesn't want to be on the wrong side of him.
The thing that will break Angel from the Powers the Be: Literally A BLONDE
Dont underestimate what a blond girl with blue eyes can do 😏
thats his one weakness 😭😭
@@alleybox Indeed "darling"... 😏
@@deusveritasest56 About 50% of what a brunette with blue eyes can do =)
Well, everyone has their weaknesses I guess.
@@juzujuzu4555 Lol can you imagine one second Angel fall in love with a brunette ?
Walt a Minute... 😱😱😱
It's unfortunate she had to cut out the Wesley speech about desires and having reasons to live. It plays such an important part to the show and shows another example of Wesley's insightfulness.
I love that scene a lot too. Also highlights Angels depression
It's a terrific episode. Sets up a brilliant S2. What's great about The Buffyverse is seeing old characters introduced back into it which always adds to brilliant plotlines. Love when Angel says to one handed Lindsey when he tries to burn the scroll 'don't always believe everything that's foretold''. Wesley comes to the rescue with his brilliance in translation, but messes up with Angel's prophecy saying he is going to live! The revelation of Darla being brought back sets up some great episodes for S2. The last five episodes of Angel S1 were superb. Still cannot understand some BTVS fans refusing to watch Angel. The best episodes of this show are more than a match for BTVS, and in many cases surpassed it.
On Angels Hobbies: He likes art. He really likes art. You're gonna see how much he likes art next season. 🤣😂
Indeed. Torture and manipulation are just another way of expression 😏 Angelus was not a bad guy, just an underetimate artist 😅😅
That's the reason why the music in the intro is so great, it's because Ángel loves classical music and that violin in the intro is his essence.
@@blakeuckerman1540 Yeesss! haha
@@deusveritasest56 "I am the world's first fully-functioning homicidal artist."-The Joker (and also Angelus).
Angel putting Kate and her attitude in place is a great moment.
I will be forever disappointed that the moment from Angel walking between the two hospital rooms wasn't a tracking shot, but it makes sense that they couldn't do it.
Everyone always seems to have a delayed reaction with Darla. Just think what said delayed reaction was like when watching the series originally and he hadn't been seen since her in modern times since the episode entitled _Angel._ That's two and a half years. There's a reason they have Lilah say her name. It's been years and Darla isn't always recognizable after just coming back to life and therefore not looking her best.
I'd argue she looked better here just being back from the dead than in Buffy s1 in her silly schoolgirl look..
@@odkres Better wasn't my point though. My point was that many have trouble seeing Darla as we have known her because of what she looks like when brought back, and perhaps because the director put the actress in shadows, also.
I wouldn't like it if it was a tracking shot because it would imply that there is some connection between Angel and the mayor who already had a hospital tracking shot in Buffy. It would just be weird and unoriginal to repeat the same thing and not have any deeper connection behind it.
@@wendywhoisit1819Their wouldn't be anything unoriginal about it as one tracks different characters and one could have followed just Angel. And Buffy was about showing everyone in the same space whereas the AtS moment would be about Angel's state of mind.
It’s delayed cause hair is covering her face, she was in episodes of this series. You can see who she is. Lilah saying Darla was for emphasis.
It's kind of subtle how this episode brings in elements from throughout the season. It's not quite the big, dramatic, grandstanding eleventh hour team up that you might expect in a finale, but it just pulls in all these little pieces to give cohesion to this world they've been building. Lindsey's here from episode 1 and the law firm he represented has turned out to be a pretty big deal. The Oracles are back and they're being targeted. The visions, that Cordelia inherited from Doyle, are being brought into prominence. Kate's here and her relationship with Angel has become strained. Angel turns to Gunn for help. And, of course, Darla's here. It's a delicate balance to have all these elements in one finale without suffocating the plot or having anything feel particularly shoehorned in.
Obviously a fantastic finale with a tremendously satisfying cliffhanger for season 2. Plus they learned from their mistakes, Julie Benz' credit is at the end so as not to ruin the surprise
Btw Alley, you mentioned that you liked David Greenwalt's episodes in your "The Wish" reaction. Well this is one of his episodes, and I personally like how he made the episode more cinematic through some of his decisions.
Especially the shot where Lindsey loses his hand. It's not a difficult shot. But in other Angel episodes, or early Buffy episodes, they would have used the cuts to show action. But instead, they use only one cut--Angel throwing the scythe to Lindsey's hand falling off. It draws more attention to the action and stunt, and less to the fact that it's an effect.
My heart breaks every time I watch this season finale and, especially the scenes of Angel telling Cordy he’s “gonna get [her] back.” We already knew he did, but this finale really shows how much he cares and depends on Wesley and Cordy. Not just working for him but as his family. Season 2 is amazing. It’s probably tied with season 3 as my favorite season of Angel and honestly the first episode is probably in my top 5 favorite episodes of the whole season.
"Are you family?"
"Yes!"
😭😭😭
Alley during S1 ep 7 of Buffy when Darla dies: "Thank God she's dead!"
Alley during this season finale when Darla comes back: "WHAT THE FUUUU...!!!" 😆😆😆
"Why didn't they make copies of the scroll?" The point for W&H wasn't to keep the scroll, it was to keep it away from Angel. Making copies would make that harder.
EDIT: the episode title is a dorky pun, a play on the movie title, "To Live and Die in LA."
I thought she meant why didn't Angel make copies
@@calvinallen3424 mini Spoiler alert (or not) : the scroll himself has some capacity. Remember Season 5 ? Remember who put his name on it ? So that s the reason why W&H wanted to keep it : the fact Angel may translate it was not the point for them so Whatever if he make copy or not lol
As somebody already mentioned, she meant why Wesley didn't make copies, not W&H.
@@deusveritasest56 why are you posting spoilers?
@@calvinallen3424 i put a warning and to be honest is not a spoiler at all. If you did not see the all show you can not understand about what I am talking about....
I don't know if someone has already pointed this out, but the name of this episode is a reference to the 1985 movie To Live and Die in L.A.
If you're interested in Lindsey's actor (Christian Kane), check out Leverage. His Leverage character is a lot more in tune with Kane's actual personality/interests and Kane was heavily involved in the stunt-coordination for Leverage.
I wonder, she never recognized Lindsey from Supernatural's last season, did she?
@@odkres She mentions that in the after-reaction discussion.
Christian Kane is also in The Librarians series and there's a nice little hat tip to him playing Lindsey in a certain episode, that I ABSOLUTELY LOVED!!!
@@BitkahAtTheBusStop Loved that show. It got too cartoonish by the end, but the first season especially was excellent with real stakes and interesting character arcs.
@@purcascade I found the show tolerable in the early seasons, but it felt a little too "American Inspector Space-Time." That and I just can't accept Noah Wiley as a leading man. (His role on Leverage: Redemption however, actually worked for me.)
A parallel with Angel and Buffy, in both characters story this season, the bad-guy tried to weaken them by isolating them from their friends.
This is definitely one of my favourite Angel episodes. I love how they kind of touch upon Angels depression talking about the fact he wants nothing in life.
Giles (BtVS s2e1): "I've never heard of a vampire revivication spell working."
In that episode of Buffy, we learn that there is a sacrifice and the person or people (physically) close to the vampire must be present for the revivication to work. In the season finally of Angel, Angel was the one physically close to Darla, being the one who staked her, and there was a sacrifice (just not Angel). So both conditions were met just that the one who was physically close didn't have to be the one that was sacrificed. I think it is neet that the revivication of Darla met the same conditions that were necessary for the revivication of the Master.
This episode is definitely something to get excited about, it’s Angel at its best and sets the stage for more greatness to come. Also I love that you love Gunn!
YESSS. And now THAT is how you do a finale reveal!
Love the design on mr tall dark and masky. And having the power to both attack the Oracles and mess with Cordelia's visions is great, because it attacks the core premises of the setting. It shows that he was a Big Deal. I also genuinely forgot this was Season 1. Just wait for the follow up, they do NOT drop the ball.
Love the matter-of-fact commentary about rituals. Never show up on time.
So here's the thing. Westley's mistranslation sounds like half-baked philosophical justification. But it's not. It's exactly the equivalent of saying 'becomes mortal' - down to the root word.
Oh, man. I really love this episode, too (and your reaction to it).
It's so sweet that Cordelia tries to cheer Angel up about the idea that he might die (or, moreover, tries to get him to live his life some) by buying him art supplies. Wesley probably wasn't wrong when he said, "Angel's cutoff. He has no problem with dying, because he has nothing to live for" or something like that. Which makes the actual translation, where he realizes he'll become human, all the better. And the whole team is so excited. It's such a sweet moment.
And going to be undercut for sure by Darla coming back. I can't wait!
Gunn is seriously a treasure. I swear the more we've seen of him these last episodes, the happier I get.
And ahh! I can't believe we almost lost Cordy and Wes! That Angel almost lost them! His/David's reactions to that were so good and broke my heart! Charisma's acting in this episode, with the visions when they were out of control, was also amazing.
And I really appreciated Angel standing up to Kate finally. I get where she's coming from (in grieving for her father still), but Angel REALLY had nothing to do with that.
I adore how Angel was willing to do anything for Cordy's sake there-even going as far as what he did to Lindsey (which sucks for Lindsey. And I DO feel bad for him. But if he had just given Angel the scroll, or had stayed on Team Angel's side last episode... *sigh*). This was the only way to save Cordelia, and Lindsey was about to throw it into the fire, so that it would be lost forever and I GET Angel's actions here. I really do. And as a Cordy Stan, of course, I applaud him for it. Haha.
I forgot about that part with Lilah and that one Wolfram & Hart guy. But it was so great! How many such rituals DO they go to. Dang. o_0
Amazing review as always! It was fun watching all of Angel season 1 with you! I'm glad you made it through, and seem to be liking it a lot more now and seeing where they're going with it. See you for season two:) Season two's a lot of fun, imo!
"I was not expecting that!"- Alley about 100 times this episode 😂 . I'm an old school Buffy and Angel fan and I love seeing you watch these for the first time
Amber Benson (Tara on Buffy) appeared in two episodes of Supernatural as well, I think it was in Season 2 and Season 6.
Now it's official, Welcome to the world of Angel. Also the title of the episode is a play on words, it means To Live and Die in LA. It was a movie title from the 80's.
Great episode. I was pretty impressed with the Faith storyline, enough to reconsider quitting the show but this is probably the episode that made me a fan. That last scene is just fantastic.
~To live & die in LA~
Charisma's acting is perfect, god I love her & Cordy so much "we have to help them" lives in my head rent free
Was CC's acting ever better? Was Angel ever more badass as when he cut off Lindsey's hand?
I am glad to see some appreciation for the three main Wolfram and Heart antagonists. All three have some depth to them. I especially like Lilah Morgan (who becomes increasingly interesting as things move on).
Alley Box: "DnD players really go all out!"
DnD players: You have no idea.
It’s really great watching your reactions (in general) but especially to angel cause I watched angel after I finished buffy so never got to watch in the “proper” order . Amazing reaction as always ! ✨
It's really strange to revisit a season finale cliffhanger when most shows didn't do this at the time, but ever since, cliffhangers didn't only become commonplace, but they did them not knowing whether or not they would be renewed for another season, which is the thing that kept them out of the Buffyverse the most.
... Um, no? Season finale cliffhangers were such a trope that Saturday Night Live parodied it in 1986, with the final sketch being Producer Lorne Michaels running into a burning building with the cast still inside.
Plus, in the 80s and 90s, every Star Trek TNG season ended in a cliffhanger. (Seasons 1 and 2 ended with the cliffhanger being, "Are they really gonna do another season of this show??")
@@davewolf6256 I didn't say there were _no_ season finale cliffhangers, I said _most_ shows didn't do them at the time. I looked at all the shows from TVtropes with season finale cliffhangers and these are all the ones that predate Buffy:
Babylon 5
Boy Meets World
Callan
Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future
Cheers
The Colbys
Dallas
Frasier
Friends
JAG
Lois & Clark
Red Dwarf
Star Trek TNG
Star Trek DS9
Star Trek Voyager
15 shows. TNG had multiple season finale cliffhangers, but the show wasn't written with much serialization, with these finales being treated as two part episodes, even the famous Best of Both Worlds Part I.
The SNL spoof happened when Dallas was popular, a show that had the famous "Who shot JR?" cliffhanger.
Look at any top 10 season finale cliffhanger lists. I looked at several, most of them have TNG and Dallas listed among shows that came after Buffy. Now look at how common season finale cliffhangers are _today._ Nearly every genre show used them, whether it's 24, Alias, Lost, Smallville, Chuck, Orange is the New Black, Stranger Things, Supernatural, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, it cannot be underestimated the level of influence the Buffyverse had in modern serialized television writing.
@@TigerNightmare Twin Peaks predates Buffy also.
Looks like linsey gave angle that hand he needed
It just now occurred to me that the episode title is probably a reference to the 1985 movie "To Live and Die in L.A."
Willem Dafoe and John Pankow.
Season 2 will be quite the rollercoaster. Have a blast ....
I love how she thinks she 'knows' how it's going to go ... this Whedon, predict as much as you want, you will still be surprised.
16:30 You're so excited, and you just can't hide it 🎶🎵
I have always maintained that the Shanshu prophecy was fulfilled back in "I Will Remember You" and the big idiot gave it up, and everything that follows from that is now moot.
Yes but, to me, Angel did not accept to be human with Buffy because he was still feeling guilty about his past and did not have the "power" to fight monsters as a "Slayer s boyfriend". The Shanshu prophecy seeems to explain he will become human when the final Apocalypse will appear, which mean the force of Darkness will disapear too, or almost all of them. So the Vampire with a soul will become human when "the World/Power that Be" will not need him anymore.
I could only read part of the message on your patreon page. Before I got to watching I just want to say that I hope you're holding up alright. Take care and get well soon.
thank you! holding in there.. feeling extra sick today 😅
@@alleybox Covid?? :(
Watching your reactions is just élite😂always love them❤seeing you so excited makes me so happy cause that's my favourite series😆
Can't wait everytime for the next episodes!!😝
They blew up the Angel Investigations office because it was really hard to film in, and everyone hated working there.
I actually love Buffy, but I really love Angel, I really like her story, it's incredibly fascinating to imagine how they come up with this angel character and I love it. season 2 is great.
In the Buffyverse my favorite season opener is 3x01 Anne. Favorite season finale it's this one!
I love Anne too, it’s a criminally underrated episode
Cordy identifying Angel as one of the helpless that they need to help is one of my favorite beats about her character. The visions connect Cordy to the pain of those suffering in LA. She got a heavy dose this episode, but her character can’t just be about herself anymore. She likes her self-centered facade, but she can’t ignore that much pain in those in her visions. Nor can she ignore Angel being resigned to his death.
I've always preferred Angel over Buffy. The plotlines and antagonists just felt stronger. Season 2 is my favorite of the 5 (With the final season being a close second), so I can't wait! It's awesome seeing someone get as excited as I did when I watched it the first time. Haha
Me too! I love Angel and I can't wait for Alley's reactions to season 2 it's amazing season
I liked how they kept Julie Benz Credit till the end
I like how you're kinda rolling your eyes at the DnD/stereotype demons, and Wolfram and Hart basically do the same thing.
Aaahhh, been waiting and waiting! Suuuch a good finale.
Dude I love this final its great
Looking forward to the group rewatch with Domie and Liam D 😆😆😆
Lindsey's path is an interesting one: He danced with The Powers That Be in the last episode, turned his back on them in a big way in this one . . . . .
Season 2 is sooooo much better. Much like Buffy, Season 2 is when the show really becomes what it’s supposed to be.
There's a Monster Manual, and other books which have monster definitions.
(Been playing and running D&D games since the late 70s...)
A supernatural ending is one of them dies or a demon arrives
"Are you familiar with the writings of Sanshu?"
Stay tuned for Season 5 of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' and Season 2 of 'Angel'. Watch each episode concurrently for the cross-over storylines will take place (Buffy to Angel).
Trivia fact: the exteriors of the building of Wolfram & Hart, the corporation from Hell, is the building headquarters of Sony Pictures Studios located on West Washington Blvd. in Culver City, California. They used that building exterior and interiors for many TV shows and films. One example is the 1987 film 'The Running Man'.
My favorite cameo was harmony on supernatural as a vampire. I think it was season 3.
The first season of Buffy was a mid-season replacement and became a surprise hit. Since they didn't know when the show might get cancelled, Whedon wrote every season finale (except maybe season 4) to also work as a series finale. I guess with Angel they gave up that concept.
Season 4 sets up for season 5 being totally about CHEESE. 😜👀
To Shanshu in LA - To Live and Die in LA
It is a pun on the name of the 1985 WilliamFriedkn movie starring William Petersen abd Willem Dafoe.
I've found that watching Alley makes me have to consult Urban Dictionary a lot more than I used to.
Lindsay didn't realise he had a bad "hand" on that scroll. 😆😅 I mean, he should've seen it coming the moment he decides to go against Angel after last episode when he asked for his help. Angel gave him a hand and then he takes it away. 👍
I'm really happy you enjoyed season 1 so much. In retrospect it's the one I like the least as with Buffy but there are some gems in there for sure. Everything after this is a step up (mostly)
I only just realized, To Shanshu in L.A. means to live and die in L.A. as the Shanshu means both live and die. How is it possible that after all these years there are still things I find out from the Buffyverse.
23:37 So as I am quite the D&D geek myself I kinda want to answer you, hope you don't mind? Anyway, it's a bit of both: Doing your own thing and there's a set of rules. You saw Stranger Things so you can get the idea, but basically there's one player who's the Dungeon Master (DM), and all the other players. The players all make a character, fighters or wizards or druids or whatever, and invent a backstory for them (maybe the fighter is a former gladiator for instance? Or a soldier from a corrupt king, so he defected. Maybe the wizard came across some scrolls prophesying the end of the world and put the burden of stopping it on his shoulder. Whatever, you make it up), and these characters travel together, while the DM describe what's happening around them; the people they meet, the monster they fight, the places they go, etc. And the players decide how their characters react in those situations. And finally there's a set of rules to what the players can and can't do. Each character has strengths and weaknesses, to which a numerical score are attributed. So when they attempt something that might involve a success or failure, they roll a dice, add the numerical value of the corresponding stat, and if it's high enough (at the DM's discretion) they succeed what they gonna do. If it's too low they fail.
There are more details, but that's basically all you need to know! It's a game, but it's also storytelling, and that's why (in my opinion), it's so fun! Oh, and as for the Demogorgon: The thing is, the DM could theoretically make up the monsters the characters would meet, sure, but it would be A LOT of work to do that! The D&D books, however, has a ton of pre-made creatures that the DM can pick from instead! The Demogorgon is one of those creatures, one of the high-ranking demons in the game.
So, yeah, sorry for the long post, but I do love talking about D&D! One last thing about it I guess: There are people who play D&D, film it, and put it online! There are many groups who do that but the most famous one would be Critical Role. The videos are VERY LONG (4 hours on average), but looking up a few could give you an idea of what it looks like! Plus, when they say they are the most popular, it's to the point where they managed to get an animated series based on one of their campaign greenlight on Amazon Prime, supposed to be released by the end of the month!
Ok, sorry again for the long post! Now I shut up! :p
Charisma Carpenter and James Marsters were also on Supernatural. in the SAME EPISODE.
You gotta be careful about copying ancient texts. Remember "I Robot, You Jane"? You might release a demon.
So I'm watching this with you, and here is where for the first time I watched ahead of you, and I really like season 2 so far.
Don't believe everything you're foretold
Wow the comments are pretty spoiler-y today
You know there's a Supernatural episode where James (Spike) is married to Charisma (Cordy)?
Yes
@@brendanjessie6466 I meant Alley, but cool.
@redeem147 ok cool sorry didnt realise
"I wonder if this Vocah guy comes back...oh wait I forgot Angel killed him."
Well that didn't stop Darla after Angel killed her.
Is it just me? or the girl that sell things is Gunn sister?,in one of the episodes Angel ask Cordy about the vision and she says i didn't just saw it i felt it,so now with all the visions is kinda like that? if that´s so,it explains why she's really feeling the pain all those people have.
Yea Buffy is more a self contained story each year while Angel is 1 large story in 5 parts.
I Just Found Your Review, Been Watching BUFFY From The Beginning, Your Review For ANGEL Has Me Looking For Buffy Too!
DARLA IN A BOX 🥰
"How did he survive?" Wel it is tv
Phone broken so only just watching this. This episode is so goooood! Let's gooooooooooo 🔥🔥🔥
Love your reaction to this episode. People had some trouble getting into Angel. But the last third of the season things ratcheted up and the show hit its stride. Now it begins for Ally
Been looking forward to this one for a while.
Honestly Cordy always gets the short end of the stick. In Buffy and here lol
It's funny what you say about Death; in dreams symbols of Death or blood don't actually mean anything bad, a large majority of people dream of death...according to research. but dreams of death actually mean "rebirth or change". In the Tarot Death means something similar but...in very RARE occasions it can mean actual death (but that is quite rare), that's the sort of irony u might get in a fiction book like Stephen King.
Let's be honest here, even if there were not plot reasons for Wesley to not have made a copy of the scroll, any hypothetical copies would likely have been destroyed in the fire that torched the office.
You are correct dnd players do go all out lmao
Oh my gosh, I can't wait for your reaction to the final reveal! Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! 🙆🙆🙆
Yay! A new video!
Best finale ever!!!!
Lilah Morgan
YAY I always look forward to your videos
Kinda really want Alley to react to Leverage now. :)
Might suck that Darla was killed off so early but at the time Julie Benz sucked, a vicious bully who terribly tormented Alyson Hannigan so they got rid of her. Apparently mellowed a lot since.
really? even just in like two episodes of buffy s1 she bullied alyson? i'd never heard of that :(
It s okay because she was reborn in Miama as Dexter s wife during this time 😏... It look like Julie Benz love to date Serial Killer 😅😅
@@sarahturner4148 So the story goes reading up on TV Tropes, Watchmojo, Looper and others, that's what happened. Not something I'd like to think of, same with Buffy, Sarah Michelle Gellar, getting burnt out at the end and making it hard for het co stars.
I hope some of it is exaggerated, maybe not being prepared for just how ga ga fans would go for the series. Either way it's great that whatever happened, whatever problems Julie Benz had if any, she was brought back because she hsd some great scenes, and arguably the show would not have been as good without her storyline.
@@sarahturner4148 I've just looked on Reddit and Buffy Board threads and there are people saying they heard it happened or Alyson said it in an interview but I can't see any links/sources/interviews, which makes me a wee bit wary as to whether it happened. The Buffy Board thread also states that Emma (Anya) and SMG hated each other and if that's true then they must have made up cos they are close friends on Instagram. So, yeah, wee bit wary.
I can't wait for you to see season 2 but I think season 3 is my favourite of Angel
Hey Alley, regarding your patreon, why is there a 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0? They weren't there when I last been a patron, so I'm just wondering what the difference between the 3 versions are.
She did that because having all her patrons traffic one Dropbox account was too much so she had to split it up
Don't you be disrespecting Phantom cosplayers!!!! Lol. They got the look and the game!!!! 😂
What is this new slang "no shot"? 😅 Is it a pc way of saying "no sh*t"? (I am so very old.)
I consulted Urban Dictionary, it's like "no way."
(I'm old too.)
@@jb888888888 Thanks! 🙃
Did you say a rewatch with Domi? 💗💗💗
Lots of Buffy Actors are in Supernatural. Charisma and James are in it a couple of times and Charlie stared her acting on Buffy
Agree - I love campy Buffy season 1 its my most rewatched season, even though I think many of the other seasons are better
You must have loved this episode because I couldn't follow a single thing you said after the episode 🤣