Everyone who has left the church should officially resign so they can’t count you as a member. That would force them to be more honest about their membership numbers.
Now, admittedly, I've only been out of the church for 8-ish months now... But is this the most problematic year they've ever had? All the lawsuits, the therapists charged with sex crimes, the desperate changes in policies, the Tim Ballard scandal, etc. have all been this year!
It’s been a rough one, but I think part of it is that when you are in the church you are kept in an information bubble so you never heard about this kind of stuff that’s been going on year after year
I feel sad as I know it is difficult to ask for money. I noticed the way MBR Steve adores it with such comfort. I am so sorry for the logical presentation that is not going to impact the 15. I grew up in a branch and I was a SS teacher at age 14. I still know a few people that I have a picture of them coloring and me showing a picture of Jesus. Branches are a sweet place to learn about the gospel I just did not learn the truth.
For decades the church counted my entire family as well as my husband’s family as members. In reality out of those 11 adults, who were all baptized, only 2 stayed active. The other 9 stopped believing and participating. However, I’m the only one who officially resigned. Everyone else just left, and the church continues to count them as members. That’s why the church’s numbers are a joke.
Most of us know the church attendance has been declining over the last few years, but what keeps the church structure powerful is their financial holdings. The massive amount of wealth they've accumulated gives the impression of success no matter what their attendee numbers are. Announcements of more temples around the world, is for many, a sign the church is growing. For me, that is the illusion.
And when you went inside the Temple did it actually have people inside, did you SEE the illusion, and it was all empty? You just have a wish in your brain because you didn't go inside. Most all the Temples I have been to are full, and if you don't have a reservation you may not get in. Why not just look at the parking lot next time? Oh, I "heard" the Church is actually parking fake cars to give the "Illusion" that people are there, LOL. This idea that they are building 285 Temples to have them all be empty, an Illusion, is certainly one of the funniest anti Church stories I have ever seen. Why would they do that? To collect tithing? But then the same people say they have way too much money.
As a person who stopped attending church, I appreciate this group. I love how everyone wants meaningful positive change. I’m not ever planning on returning, but it would be wonderful if the church I grew up in could become a better place.
Jane, First time seeing u, thank you for talking about who JC is and what He represents: helping others. It'd be great to have Sacrament on a Sunday and then go to those struggling in dire situations and actually 'Do' smthg to help them, even if a weekly 'Munch n Mingle' was opened to the Community Needs instead of the current sterilised distant approach.
I live on a remote sheep station in outback South Australia with international tourists coming through, i can't encourage people to church because i struggle with the corporation side, far removed from the gospel, but i do encourage people to have hope in the areas they need it (individualized). i don't need to speak about Christ unless it comes up or I'm prompted too. i just try to be a good example. i hope we go back to the basics... the original church, like discussions around a meal. i have seen and met Christ since i was 6 years old (out of my body only, unexpectedly and not because of any accident/near death experience). (i didn't join the church until the age of 22). He only encouraged me to live gospel principals. he never said this church was the be all and end all, just that it helped me personally. I hope all get a chance to have and understand an experience like this. this is a very good discussion, i enjoy a decent discussion and I'm sure Christ does too, thank-you Nemo (and others)
When i served as a missionary in the Bahia Blanca Argentina Mission (1985) I was assigned to San Martin de los Andes area. It was my second area. My companion was the first counselor to President Torres. I was the second counselor in the branch presidency and...... Relief Society President. After a few weeks a sister in the branch agreed to be the RS President!
My Stake just was reorganized in Arizona. I am in the Tempe South Stake and our 5 Ward Stake just got dissolved to a 4 Ward Stake. It’s interesting to see this come out about the minimum be 5 and we just got reduced to 4 Wards in our stake. The church is trying something out in my area. The biggest change is they are combining each wards second hour. (Youth/Elders/ Relief Society) This makes it so there more people in each class room. Also this makes it so there are less callings because they have been having issues with people accepting callings.
That combining sounds interesting. Can you explain a little more how that works. It seems that could work if one ward has sacrament meeting first and the other ward has sacrament meeting last. I think it is a good idea but in areas that have older aging demographics it could work.
@@Surfer5689-ez2yd that is exactly what is happening. So one ward has sacrament meeting first then the second ward has sacrament meeting at the last. They all meet up to have their classes during the second hour. Then for mutual and primary activities during the week both wards meet up. They really want to give the youth in the ward better experiences with more youth since both wards have limited youth. They did this with the other two wards in our stake in a different church building.
Sad to hear. But when you find nothing but confusion, contradictions and contentions, you are welcome to return to a firm foundation of Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone. Just like Jesus Christ promised of his true Church.
@@bartonbagnes4605 I was joking about how the group said they had a ward, due to having 250,watching. I go to church each week. I no longer contribute to ensign peak fund. I also no longer look to the leaders for any divine leadership. But I have never been more happy in my life. Plus my financial fortunes have done nothing but grow since 2018, when I stopped paying tithing. I have been blessed. Thanks for your concern. May god bless you as well. It just might cost you 10%?
15 Priesthood needed in a Ward... Sisters... RS Pres - 3 + RS Teachers + RS Compassionate + any additional service req. YW Pres +3 + Adviser Primary Pres +3 + Teachers (mostly Sisters) + Pianist + Music Teacher + Activities Leader + Nursery Leaders Then, + Sacrament Pianist (can double up) + Chorister + Sunday School Teachers. + Choir Leader. 25 ish Sisters for a Ward...give or take a few who double up on 'Callings' or 'Assignments' (UK based).
I suppose this has already been tested. The last district in Finland was made a stake by changing the boundaries, adding two wards from down south and making one of the northern branches a ward. This is all despite the constant diminishing attendance in these wards/branches.
I can remember several women still teaching in primary into their 70s. They were quite happy to carry on and didn't want to be released. Lastly, one of my neighbours is still working as a hairdresser 4 days a week and is in her early 70s. Back in the 1980s, I remember an elderly sister talking about relying on USA service personnel for priesthood holders during WW2.
Absolutely - I can think of many women who would be willing and able to too - it’s when they are the only option and are willing but perhaps not as able and actually should be able to step back and take it slower
I can think of only one thing that could save mormonism. That would be for it to be TRUE. If it were true, it would have already grown to encompass the whole earth.
The only countries it doesn't have members are the countries that forbid Christianity, and even in some of those countries there are members, they just can't talk to others about it legally. The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints continues to grow, when most Christian denominations are shrinking, as is Christianity in general. True that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints has dropped to the second fastest growing church in America, but the Seventh Day Adventists are only experiencing a temporary growth, before their next inevitable split.
J W'S are false teachings. They do not like members to read outside their organization. There is the Bible and Apologetics in behalf of Christianity! Educate yourself. yourselves
@@Vicky-bn6in The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints teaches the Gospel in the Bible, and it is the ONLY church that is. Read Acts chapter 2 and Hebrews chapter 6 and see what Peter and Paul say the Gospel is, what Peter tells the first converts when they ask "Men and Brethren, what must we do?", and what Paul calls the Milk of the Gospel for new babes in Christ, lamenting that they weren't ready for the Meat. Hint: it isn't saying a random variation of a man made prayer professing oneself a sinner and accepting Jesus Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior. Yet all other churches spew out this Milk of the Gospel, in exchange for a man made baby formula with things like the Trinity added and the Priesthood and Revelations from God taken away, to make it "healthier" and easier to swallow. Jesus Christ said he would found his church on Apostles and Prophets, with himself as the chief cornerstone, but all the churches threw out the foundation, trying to balance themselves on a fake Jesus Christ only, as their foundation, so it's no wonder they can't stand, but only keep fracturing. Jesus Christ also prophesied that his true followers would be hated by all, and that all manner of evil would be spoken falsely against his church and its leaders, which no other church even comes close to fulfilling like The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints. Look for the church whose very name brings hatred, and is attacked from all sides, and if it isn't yours, wonder why the devil doesn't care what your leaders are doing, for Satan fights hardest against his greatest threat.
Interesting to see all the TBM here spouting the official “we’re the fastest growing church in the world” line. Andy Larsen had a series of articles in the Salt Lake Tribune in May, June, November 2022 comparing official church numbers to various other data to show how unreliable the official data are. My favorite but was where the official church numbers have more members in Rich County Utah than there are residents. More significantly, the Cooperative Election Study shows self-identified Mormons have dropped from 1.8% of the US population in 2010 to 1.2% in 2021. Meanwhile, the official church numbers for the US work out to 2%. That’s actually the fastest decline of any religion in the US - including the Protestants.
@@NEMOTHEMORMONit would be interesting to see a conversation between you and someone that might offer a additional perspective - how about adding someone from outside the echo chamber for your next conversation?
Actually no, in 2002 the Church membership was 11,700,000. In reality it grew by 5,300,000 members or 45% in just 20 years!! And in 2002 there were 108 Temples operating and today almost double at 180. But the demise is most likely coming soon LOL
Perhaps you mention this later than I've listened, but... keep in mind that when they announce world wide membership, it is "members of record" they're talking about, not participatory membership. This list of requirements is about funding ward budgets and so forth, not about the swelling of the total headcount for GC or similar statistical boasting. Which actually sounds like they're being somewhat generous, perhaps? Making it easier to claim a larger local headcount for purposes of budget allowance? Edit to add: my annual quota of generous assumptions about Mormon Inc is now full. 😊
It's all part of the retention efforts of the Corporate church. They give the glowing total number of members of record in the "world" as a mechanism and attempt to keep members "faithful" as if increasing membership has a direct correlation to prop up the idea that its "the true church" (meaning the temporal organization and their infallible leaders) as if it was some kind of an annual report on how great the business is doing. Increasing numbers in and of themselves do not establish or prove any truth. Although the opposite could be argued for decreasing numbers. The more people that see behind the curtain and realize that "all is not well in zion", the more people will leave. Unfortunately, most of the time they throw the baby out with the bath water. Because of what they see in the temporal organization they also abandon the principles of the gospel. They can't seem to separated the doctrine from the machine. When was the last time any members actually witnessed a talk in general conference that hadn't been sanitized and censored and the "leader" just got up and spoke as the spirit directed without a teleprompter?? Whomever controls this process is who is actually in charge of the structure of the church. They do not and will not allow the "brethren" to go off script. And evidently the "brethren" agree with this model. The LDS church has destroyed the ability of its membership to critically think and analyze what the church is projecting as "truth". They rule by subtle deception and dictate.
In the 1980s, I was in leadership in the Hyde Park Ward in London; as I remember, about 80% of record members were inactive. I was "counseled" to assign each member a Home Teacher. Each Home Teacher companionship had a total of 20 families or Individuals. Active members at that time were based on meeting attendance and whether they were with payer full or not. Those inactive never attended meetings. My view was to focus on strengthening the Active and Less active members rather than trying to find the members of record who have left the Church.
The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints has not stopped growing, unlike most Christian churches, and Christianity in general, which have been shrinking. Last year The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints increased 1.17%, 0.80% the year before, and 0.60% the year before that. Though it is down to the second fastest growing church in America, the Seventh Day Adventists growth is only temporary, before they split again.
@@pattykake7195They are just preparing for a massive increase before it happens, as always. This is a proactive church. Unlike all the others, that can only react to things as they come, having no forewarning.
I've returned to my Christian heritage and it's wonderful that I am not required to attend a specific church location . I can attend whatever denomination without consequences. I am experiencing FREEDOM!
These requirements show a clear focus on growth - more wards, more stakes, and presumably more ward buildings and temples. These are minimum requirement for when a new ward and stake can be justified - not the threshold at which a ward or stake is so large that is should consider splitting. If congregations are growing, what's the issue with letting them grow? The issues would be space in buildings first and foremost, but that's clearly not what these requirements are about. These requirements incentive the largest possible number of viable units, not the largest number of thriving units.
Indeed! The numbers are growing because they now prohibit leaving! Many people are having legal battles with having their LD$ number and name removed. After 40 yrs a temple mormon I was still able to do that but after thousands left within a year just in Salt Lake City Utah alone, LD$ business needs their numbers up. Excommunication is no longer a thing either
As a never-mo I see a glaring problem, at least from my perspective. The missionaries are SO YOUNG! I get WHY they use kids between 18-21 or so, but they don’t have any life experience. They’ve never been married, had children, paid a mortgage, had a demanding job… they’re not seeing life from an adult point of view. They cannot relate to most of the people they’re trying to reach. I would never look to an 18 year old for advice on my life and religion, or expect them to have the answers. If I wanted to learn about the church and life in it, it wouldn’t be from a teenager. That’s what’s always confused me.
Watford Stake was originally started with five Wards. Hayes Ward originally came from Staines Stake. Aylesbury and Watford Ward from St Albans Stake. Wembley and Enfield from Hyde Park Stake. There was a Leighton Buzzard Branch split from Aylesbury Ward but it was short lived.
Many people are in a bubble - not seeing the growth that is happening in other areas like Thailand - and in some areas, particularly western areas I know myself and many others are falling down a road of being caught up in our own understanding and in pride - stepping outside that one would see that the church is growing strong in Asia, Africa etc Where I am in Thailand there are baptisms each week of people who have gained solid testimonies of Christ … You can see the growth physically in stake meetings that need bigger and bigger rooms to accommodate the members each stake conference.. the creation of new wards, stakes and even missions is a result of that growth here. More importantly I see growth in the strength of the hearts of the members, particularly as opposition is also escalating.
And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well -- and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
I'm a never Mo, but I've been learning about Mormonism since 1960 when I moved from California to Salt Lake City for a job. I was not searching for the true Christian church but had no choice but to learn what Mormons believed. It was not attractive to me. This was still the time when African Americans were considered unworthy, because of their ancestors, of full LDS benefits. That's why it is so ironic that the church is now being successful in converting Africans. Africans deserve better, as do you Brits, and everyone else. We all deserve the knowledge available from the internet. My closest neighbors are Jehovah's Witnesses, and they refuse to go on RUclips because Watchtower has warned them of the dangers to their faith. And Watchtower is right for once! Mormonism is not the first Christian denomination to attempt to create the "true" version of Christianity. Remember the Puritans? Where are they now? After killing witches and Quakers in their Salem colony, they gradually lost their commitment and faded away. I think that Mormonism will do the same thing. As the spirit of growth becomes obviously an illusion, the commitment will fade. Christianity in the U.S. is headed down the same path as in Britain, we're just a little slower for some reason. But that doesn't mean that people will necessarily lose interest in spiritual matters. Religion in the world always seems to adapt to new conditions. Religion doesn't have to mean going to a church building every Sunday and sit quietly in pews while the priest mumbles a ritual. I agree with one of you who mentioned the idea of people of all beliefs working together for the good of the community, especially those in need. Service is a form of worship. Building a healthy community could be a point of unity for all people, and one of the biggest needs is teaching our kids to be good, caring people, to be truthful, honest, humble, compassionate, truth-seeking....and friendly people towards all, no matter what their religion, or lack of. I enjoy listening to the honesty you folks express. It gives me hope for the future.
Utah in-migrant NeverMo here too. Agreed. The elephant in the room for me though is the massive wealth & thus power of the corporation. So many of the wise & open minded members are leaving or getting ex'd. I keep dreaming of a secret combination of ethical members who conspire to get all the GC tix and collectively vote against the current leadership then elect a slate of people more like these wonderful Brits. Imagine if the Brighamite church re- merged with the Community of Christ & adopted their doctrines & policies then started using the hoards of wealth to fix global problems like clean water, health, climate emergency, food insecurity etc. Britvengers to the rescue? @Nemo @mormoncivilwar @21stcenturysaints how about it?
The difference is that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints is being led by God, who has his own reasons for doing things, even if he doesn't tell us why. Those others didn't believe in revelation, so they never stood a chance. It's not like that was the first time God had restricted the Priesthood for his own reasons, Moses called 70 Elders/Priests/Prophets/Judges out of all the tribes of Israel, but shortly after, when the Children of Israel rebelled, God restricted the Priesthood to the tribe of Levi, more specifically to the sons of Aaron. Which was Moses and Aaron's tribe. They must have taken some accusations about that. The wicked are always looking for excuses to persecute the righteous.
@@JC-vq2cs If you believe in the basic principles of the restored gospel you must be able to separate them from the corrupt corporate 501c3 temporal machine that is the LDS church today. The eternal principles of the gospel can stand on their own without a temporal mortal/arm of the flesh led church.
@@greentie792 The point is there is no restored gospel there is nothing to restore, it is myth and fiction. No I don't believe it because it isn't true and I make an effort to study & question and learn and believe in true things and highest probability explanations of the universe & earth's and earth's inhabitants' place in it. I encourage you to do the same.
I noted with interest the definition of participation in the document. COVID had a major impact on participation where activity was limited to zoom. After Covid, as in education, participation changed as Jane’s comments indicated. People realised there was a different way to worship - in fact Jane is saying this as I type. I feel that there should be an additional indicator of participation in order to include believers but not attending. One disappointing element in the updated policy is that this ‘grey’ area is again ignored. Amendments to home teaching as well as the understandable focus of missionaries on finding new members means that there is a huge pool of potential members who are not included and by derivation excluded … not wanted or needed? I joined the church in 1966 but went to church first in 1960. I went to Ravenslea that became the Wandsworth Ward. At the time the Ward was huge. Many members took advantage of the Perpetual Emigration fund and shot off to SLC. It took Hugh B Brown to put the brakes on. The UK lost some fantastic people.
@@styphlynne8253 And others joining by the hundreds of thousands. The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints is still the second fastest growing church in the United States Of America, and the Seventh Day Adventists are only a temporary surge before another split. For only one church comes to a unity in the faith, all the others only divide and divide and divide again, from about 200 in Joseph Smith Jr. time to over 46,000 now.
The demographics of all the developed countries is changing, with a drop in the birth rate. Are the British LDS having fewer children? I know that's true for U.S. Mormons who used to typically have about 6 kids per family.
I am one of 21 kids. My brother had a dozen, brothers & sisters still bringing in those spirit babies ! smh But then in UT, ID, WY, CO USA polygamy is still a thing !
The only way to salvage the LDS is to throw out the BoM entirely, then focus on social/welfare programs that builds a sense of community and belonging among members. Of course they will never do this because they are too fixated on greed and resisting any positive change, so their demise is inevitable.
5:50 When I served my mission in the late eighties in Argentina, we went to a Stake Conference where the Stake presidency and every bishopric were released. They then called a District Presidency and a Branch Presidency for each of the prior wards. They made this change due to the lack of active priesthood holders. I don’t know if they had ever done this anywhere else.
Census data(CD) shows wildly inaccurate reported figures(RF). Tonga 68kRF/18.5kCD. NZ 117kRF/54kCD. AUS 156kRF/58kCD. Chile 600kRF/140k/CD. Canada 200kRF/88kCD. Mexico 1.5mRF/315kCD. Brazil 1.5mRF/227kCD. Reported figures are inflated. But they have the real numbers.
Britannia Ward the Club 18-30 YSA Ward of Hyde Park Stake. It's a transient Ward with students ans ex-pats members. The biggest bugbear are the cliques. They only reach out to their own inner circle. They are the Britannia Ward version of Mean Girls. The worst thing is they have callings. One of them was FHE Mother and she was nasty towards me. The only time she wasn't mean was when she ignored me. Missionary work was steady. The more convert baptism quickly became less active because they were excluded and offended by the clique. I stopped visiting because I became disillusioned with Britannia Ward.
In NZ there are 237 members per ward who still identify as members via the census from a reported figure from The Church of 514 members of record per ward. That’s a 46% in theory activity rate, but doesn’t account for inactive self identifying Mormons. Would they split wards and stakes to have a flood of growth that helps global figures? 228 wards jumping to maybe 328 is probably doable. Do that in centres of high activity rates and you can promote growth through cannibalising existing units. Australia has had strong growth only through migration from New Zealand and the Pacific Islands. NZ from migration from the Pacific and large pacific families.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is doing well and will always do well as long as the Lord is willing. It's not perfect, but the Lord doesn't demand perfection or else we would all be doomed. If you want to be part of that community, then welcome.
I wish it was that logical and simple but my guess is that existing wards will limp on until they are absolutely forced to consolidate. In the meantime, good people will be broken in the process 😢
I really appreciate this channel so don't take this the wrong way but: isn't it cool that the Church creates a space where 70-year-olds can regularly interact with and mentor the children in their community?
If you attend the Temple then you can conclude that originally the women must have been considered to holding priesthood as they wear the priesthood robes during the endowment. The robes are exactly the same ad the men except for the headwear. So.....
@@styphlynne8253 Yes, I assume that you were not taught the reality of what you would have experienced in the Endowment. And I don't see any real proof that the LDS church leadership in general even know now what "Priesthood" is let alone what it is for and how it can benefit the individuals who believe in the principles of what was restored. Men and Women. The fact is, the membership of the LDS church are not "taught" much of anything pertaining to what the Endowment experience actually is before, during or after the Endowment. The principles of the gospel that encompass the knowledge and blessings of God to his children revealed in the Endowment have been all but lost to the LDS church. They go through the motions and don't comprehend the knowledge that can be gained through the metaphor that was historically presented in a true Endowment in a true Temple. When they converted the Temples into movie theatres they were no longer true Temples as the conversion removed the ability of the attendees to glean understanding by the process of moving through the Temple from one room/order to the next, always at least one step higher and in a clockwise direction (just as one example among many). The gutting of the Temples was on purpose. The Temples as they were built originally in Utah were architectural metaphors for the plan of salvation and exaltation. The LDS church since the late 1800's have lost much of what was considered essential doctrine and understanding of why we are on the earth and what we can learn from our experience here. The principles and doctrines of the gospel can stand independently on their own without a corrupt temporal corporate organization or buildings or glorified movie theatres. I wish you the best in your quest for truth.
As re the example of Tallahassee: in the realm of human socialization/ society, when an individual vigorously and determinedly pushes himself on another person, what do we call this?
@@johnrowley310 Your comment perfectly reveal, your extreme lack of knowledge, of the fullness and the truthfulness of, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. You have the spirit of deception.
@@pattykake7195Constitutional, conductive, constructive, consistent sure, but there are also plenty of pros. Productive, prosperous, professional, proactive, just to name a few.
Everyone has their way to enlightenment, if this is yours its true to you. A reason to get up or be happy. Born & raised LD$ I would say the cons were not preparing me with real life tools to cope outside of the religion. After so many false beliefs I thought the world was also like UTAH USA. smh ! what an awakening. From FLD$/RLD$/CLD$ to LD$ it just kept sucking me deeper. After thousands of dollars, trips to ridiculous rituals at the temple etc etc I had an awakening
Sorry to bust all you 'hating" bubbles. This has nothing to do with any "Illusion" of growth. So your premise is ridiculous, very few pay attention to number of stakes. Do you even know the number of Stakes? This change makes a lot sense; 1. Allows a larger stake to be split, so that the Stake leaders can provide better leadership to a smaller number of wards. Especially in areas that may cover a large geographical area, it would reduce travel time a lot. 2. Provides for a stake/ward to be formed in a more remote area. 3. Allows the ability to build smaller meetinghouses and Stake buildings. 4. When they have Stake Conference they can fit in one building. Seems like a great idea I didn't know they made this change, Thanks!!
Just not a news story that affects very many Church members. It seems like a good change. I wouldn't expect this changing more than a handful of Stakes or wards. @@DeathValleyDazed
@@Surfer5689-ez2yd Will not affect that many church members….because not that many church members even attend church. Activity rates of “members” are in the toilet.
Doesn't "dear brothers and sisters" just show that the church is respecting the gender identity of trans brothers? Don't be mean to such an inclusive intention...
if only functionaries and full payers are "participating" are the rest then "guests" or do i get that wrong? they're still welcome to be there i hope 😂
I come here for laughs and it never fails me. The "demise" Of the LDS Church is always just at the threshold of happening, but never seems to happen, except in your minds. Some facts MOST churches are losing membership, But the LDS Church is still growing but at a lower rate, 17,000,000 members. The Church had 250,000 convert baptisms last year (that is an increase), full time missionaries have increased tremendously to about 75,000 this year. That is the 3rd highest number of missionaries ever, with the two higher years being after they lowered the age. If that continues the Church could have the most missionaries ever. How do you all explain the increase in missionaries? I thought all young people were leaving. As far as counting members that are not active ALL Churches do this. The LDS Church is the only Church that actually keeps a decent record of membership. Do you think Catholics that go to Mass once a year for Christmas are counted as Catholics, YES. I have been active and inactive in the Church over many years. I travel and visit many areas. I don't see ANY "illusion" I see people there. Most wards and Temples that I have attended are as full as they have been over the years. I would say there are two exceptions. Areas that have an aging demographics with no kids see a decrease, and younger new home areas are expanding. Also, I have been surprised how busy the Temples are. The Temples that I have seen are ALL very full and in many cases you need a reservation or you don't get in. I have read about this "demise" since the 1980's and all the anti Church material then and now. But I have never seen this demise.
There is very little evidence of a historical Jesus. The gospels are GrecoRoman-influenced literary works not histories. Paul never met Jesus. No one wrote about him in his time at least not anything that survives, the Josephus reference is contested. What there is shows him as an apocalyptic faithful Jew who did not found a church but rather objected to the other sects who functioned as Roman puppets and defiled the Jewish temple. If anything he wanted to restore his version of Judaism. There is nothing to restore in terms of a Xian church, that was invented much later. That is the reality. It is a myth he founded a church Honestly the BoM and Joseph Smith did not initially either. The current scholarship is fascinating I encourage you to look into it.
@@JC-vq2csSomeone has been doing some VERY selective reading. Yes I'm familiar with them trying to come up with ANY explanation to explain away fulfilled prophecies, like trying to post date the writing until after the events, but that is getting increasingly more difficult as more discoveries are made. But you can't fault them for trying.
@@JC-vq2csthis reminds me of how Rome took over the Greek religion, renaming the entire pantheon. From Aphrodite to Venus, Rome forced control of religious ideology. It was only a few hundred years later, Rome took over the history and religion of the Jewish people, creating Christianity and again forced a change upon all lands they would control. The advent of Christianity was forced by bloody wars, inquisitions, torture and every kind of sex abuse. No ordinary person was allowed to read the Bible until the 1500's. It was recited in Latin only. Even the famous Book of Kells had the 4 gospels, which is highly abbreviated from the text we have since the KJV. When Constantine and his predecessors failed at offing the belief in Jesus so they took the Old Testament from the Jewish people, enacted a total change from a Roman pantheon to a new Christian pantheon, by force, to be able to tax the globe with a Roman flat tax of 10% instead of the ten percent above all necessary expenditures such as food, clothing and shelter. The Jewish gift to the temple was a gift and not compulsory. Modern Christianity has degraded onto 360 different religions nationwide (US) and over 4000 globally. This proves that none of them agree upon principle and have superiority complex over "non-believers" which is a red flag with regard to this version of thoughts police.
Mr. Nemo left the CHURCH, refused to repent, from personal sins, whatever it is, either Sodom & Gomorrah, Babylonian, or Egypt, now up w/excuses, lies, wow.
@@harlanlang6556 not by percentages. for example if there are two mormons and two more join that is 100% growth. pentecostals are merely a branch of protestantism. percentage wise since mormons are far fewer in total numbers than protestants their growth is faster.
According to church records the membership is currently 15 million+. The problem I have with this is they include the dead, and the members who stopped attending. The only ones that are deleted are the “excommunicated,” and those who formally write letters to the church explaining they no longer wish to be members. They don’t take into account how many people have left, and how many died. Because that would shrink their numbers tremendously.
@@grayman7208We are not talking percentages, since new denominations are constantly being created, and last year The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints only increased 1.17%, up from 0.80% the year before and 0.60% the year before that. But since most Christian denominations are shrinking, as is Christianity in general, any church growing by tens to hundreds of thousands is bound to be near or at the top.
Everyone who has left the church should officially resign so they can’t count you as a member. That would force them to be more honest about their membership numbers.
Is there a right process.
Cause what I know is that the LDS church don’t delete the records completely which is another dishonesty on their part.
Now, admittedly, I've only been out of the church for 8-ish months now...
But is this the most problematic year they've ever had? All the lawsuits, the therapists charged with sex crimes, the desperate changes in policies, the Tim Ballard scandal, etc. have all been this year!
It’s been a rough one, but I think part of it is that when you are in the church you are kept in an information bubble so you never heard about this kind of stuff that’s been going on year after year
I feel sad as I know it is difficult to ask for money. I noticed the way MBR Steve adores it with such comfort. I am so sorry for the logical presentation that is not going to impact the 15. I grew up in a branch and I was a SS teacher at age 14. I still know a few people that I have a picture of them coloring and me showing a picture of Jesus. Branches are a sweet place to learn about the gospel I just did not learn the truth.
The most problematic year for Mormonism was 1830 when it was founded😂 it’s been a pain in the ass ever sense!
More to come.
For decades the church counted my entire family as well as my husband’s family as members. In reality out of those 11 adults, who were all baptized, only 2 stayed active. The other 9 stopped believing and participating. However, I’m the only one who officially resigned. Everyone else just left, and the church continues to count them as members. That’s why the church’s numbers are a joke.
Most of us know the church attendance has been declining over the last few years, but what keeps the church structure powerful is their financial holdings. The massive amount of wealth they've accumulated gives the impression of success no matter what their attendee numbers are. Announcements of more temples around the world, is for many, a sign the church is growing. For me, that is the illusion.
And when you went inside the Temple did it actually have people inside, did you SEE the illusion, and it was all empty? You just have a wish in your brain because you didn't go inside. Most all the Temples I have been to are full, and if you don't have a reservation you may not get in. Why not just look at the parking lot next time? Oh, I "heard" the Church is actually parking fake cars to give the "Illusion" that people are there, LOL. This idea that they are building 285 Temples to have them all be empty, an Illusion, is certainly one of the funniest anti Church stories I have ever seen. Why would they do that? To collect tithing? But then the same people say they have way too much money.
As a person who stopped attending church, I appreciate this group. I love how everyone wants meaningful positive change. I’m not ever planning on returning, but it would be wonderful if the church I grew up in could become a better place.
No, it should fade away
Did you resign?
Jane,
First time seeing u, thank you for talking about who JC is and what He represents: helping others.
It'd be great to have Sacrament on a Sunday and then go to those struggling in dire situations and actually 'Do' smthg to help them, even if a weekly 'Munch n Mingle' was opened to the Community Needs instead of the current sterilised distant approach.
It’s a shell game of moving wards, consolidating wards, closing and shuffling stake centers.
Populations naturally move to where the jobs are, that has nothing to do with the church.
I live on a remote sheep station in outback South Australia with international tourists coming through, i can't encourage people to church because i struggle with the corporation side, far removed from the gospel, but i do encourage people to have hope in the areas they need it (individualized). i don't need to speak about Christ unless it comes up or I'm prompted too. i just try to be a good example. i hope we go back to the basics... the original church, like discussions around a meal.
i have seen and met Christ since i was 6 years old (out of my body only, unexpectedly and not because of any accident/near death experience). (i didn't join the church until the age of 22). He only encouraged me to live gospel principals. he never said this church was the be all and end all, just that it helped me personally. I hope all get a chance to have and understand an experience like this.
this is a very good discussion, i enjoy a decent discussion and I'm sure Christ does too, thank-you Nemo (and others)
When i served as a missionary in the Bahia Blanca Argentina Mission (1985) I was assigned to San Martin de los Andes area. It was my second area. My companion was the first counselor to President Torres. I was the second counselor in the branch presidency and...... Relief Society President. After a few weeks a sister in the branch agreed to be the RS President!
How did that work out? I don't think you are a woman....
@jacobmcneal3011 i am not. The sisters quickly tired of me and my poor Spanish. A sister who had previously turned down the calling accepted it.
Let’s please have a SMELL OF FREEDOM candle.
My Stake just was reorganized in Arizona. I am in the Tempe South Stake and our 5 Ward Stake just got dissolved to a 4 Ward Stake. It’s interesting to see this come out about the minimum be 5 and we just got reduced to 4 Wards in our stake. The church is trying something out in my area. The biggest change is they are combining each wards second hour. (Youth/Elders/ Relief Society) This makes it so there more people in each class room. Also this makes it so there are less callings because they have been having issues with people accepting callings.
That combining sounds interesting. Can you explain a little more how that works. It seems that could work if one ward has sacrament meeting first and the other ward has sacrament meeting last. I think it is a good idea but in areas that have older aging demographics it could work.
@@Surfer5689-ez2yd that is exactly what is happening. So one ward has sacrament meeting first then the second ward has sacrament meeting at the last. They all meet up to have their classes during the second hour.
Then for mutual and primary activities during the week both wards meet up. They really want to give the youth in the ward better experiences with more youth since both wards have limited youth.
They did this with the other two wards in our stake in a different church building.
I’m out of the ward. I no longer pay tithing. I did like the video
Good for you…👍🏽
Sad to hear. But when you find nothing but confusion, contradictions and contentions, you are welcome to return to a firm foundation of Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone. Just like Jesus Christ promised of his true Church.
@@bartonbagnes4605 I was joking about how the group said they had a ward, due to having 250,watching. I go to church each week. I no longer contribute to ensign peak fund. I also no longer look to the leaders for any divine leadership. But I have never been more happy in my life. Plus my financial fortunes have done nothing but grow since 2018, when I stopped paying tithing. I have been blessed. Thanks for your concern. May god bless you as well. It just might cost you 10%?
7:05 nice to know the first presidency doesn’t consider me to be participating anymore.
The gang is back together!
I miss PD and Alana.
If we don’t donate to NEMO before end of the year God will take him from us. Lol
15 Priesthood needed in a Ward...
Sisters...
RS Pres - 3
+ RS Teachers
+ RS Compassionate
+ any additional service req.
YW Pres +3
+ Adviser
Primary Pres +3
+ Teachers (mostly Sisters)
+ Pianist
+ Music Teacher
+ Activities Leader
+ Nursery Leaders
Then,
+ Sacrament Pianist (can double up)
+ Chorister
+ Sunday School Teachers.
+ Choir Leader.
25 ish Sisters for a Ward...give or take a few who double up on 'Callings' or 'Assignments' (UK based).
Thanks for this Hannah - really helpful. Plus let’s not forget the unofficial call as the bishops wife…
I suppose this has already been tested. The last district in Finland was made a stake by changing the boundaries, adding two wards from down south and making one of the northern branches a ward. This is all despite the constant diminishing attendance in these wards/branches.
I can remember several women still teaching in primary into their 70s. They were quite happy to carry on and didn't want to be released. Lastly, one of my neighbours is still working as a hairdresser 4 days a week and is in her early 70s. Back in the 1980s, I remember an elderly sister talking about relying on USA service personnel for priesthood holders during WW2.
Absolutely - I can think of many women who would be willing and able to too - it’s when they are the only option and are willing but perhaps not as able and actually should be able to step back and take it slower
I can think of only one thing that could save mormonism. That would be for it to be TRUE. If it were true, it would have already grown to encompass the whole earth.
The only countries it doesn't have members are the countries that forbid Christianity, and even in some of those countries there are members, they just can't talk to others about it legally. The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints continues to grow, when most Christian denominations are shrinking, as is Christianity in general. True that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints has dropped to the second fastest growing church in America, but the Seventh Day Adventists are only experiencing a temporary growth, before their next inevitable split.
It hurts the Real Gospel of the Biblical Jesus. Books of Mormanism and J
J W'S are false teachings. They do not like members to read outside their organization. There is the Bible and Apologetics in behalf of Christianity! Educate yourself. yourselves
@@Vicky-bn6in The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints teaches the Gospel in the Bible, and it is the ONLY church that is. Read Acts chapter 2 and Hebrews chapter 6 and see what Peter and Paul say the Gospel is, what Peter tells the first converts when they ask "Men and Brethren, what must we do?", and what Paul calls the Milk of the Gospel for new babes in Christ, lamenting that they weren't ready for the Meat. Hint: it isn't saying a random variation of a man made prayer professing oneself a sinner and accepting Jesus Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior. Yet all other churches spew out this Milk of the Gospel, in exchange for a man made baby formula with things like the Trinity added and the Priesthood and Revelations from God taken away, to make it "healthier" and easier to swallow. Jesus Christ said he would found his church on Apostles and Prophets, with himself as the chief cornerstone, but all the churches threw out the foundation, trying to balance themselves on a fake Jesus Christ only, as their foundation, so it's no wonder they can't stand, but only keep fracturing. Jesus Christ also prophesied that his true followers would be hated by all, and that all manner of evil would be spoken falsely against his church and its leaders, which no other church even comes close to fulfilling like The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints. Look for the church whose very name brings hatred, and is attacked from all sides, and if it isn't yours, wonder why the devil doesn't care what your leaders are doing, for Satan fights hardest against his greatest threat.
And which of the thousands of xtian denominations preaches the "Real Gospel"?@@Vicky-bn6in
Interesting to see all the TBM here spouting the official “we’re the fastest growing church in the world” line. Andy Larsen had a series of articles in the Salt Lake Tribune in May, June, November 2022 comparing official church numbers to various other data to show how unreliable the official data are. My favorite but was where the official church numbers have more members in Rich County Utah than there are residents.
More significantly, the Cooperative Election Study shows self-identified Mormons have dropped from 1.8% of the US population in 2010 to 1.2% in 2021. Meanwhile, the official church numbers for the US work out to 2%. That’s actually the fastest decline of any religion in the US - including the Protestants.
Fascinating insight, thank you!
@@NEMOTHEMORMONit would be interesting to see a conversation between you and someone that might offer a additional perspective - how about adding someone from outside the echo chamber for your next conversation?
@@martinreidartYou mean like Nemo channeling Nephi like Tim Ballard does.
My wife is Mormon and most of her sisters family were members all six children are now inactive just leaving the adults active.
Nothing will save mormoncorp…the salamander is out of the bag….🦎
Indeed ! USA auditors will start taxing, back taxing and seizing. So many salamanders out of the bag!
Dallin Oaks can’t stop petting his salamander 😂
LDS has been claiming 17 million members for the last 20 years it seems.
Actually no, in 2002 the Church membership was 11,700,000. In reality it grew by 5,300,000 members or 45% in just 20 years!! And in 2002 there were 108 Temples operating and today almost double at 180. But the demise is most likely coming soon LOL
@@Surfer5689-ez2yd
Active membership is between 3-5 and falling fast. LOL.
Perhaps you mention this later than I've listened, but... keep in mind that when they announce world wide membership, it is "members of record" they're talking about, not participatory membership. This list of requirements is about funding ward budgets and so forth, not about the swelling of the total headcount for GC or similar statistical boasting.
Which actually sounds like they're being somewhat generous, perhaps? Making it easier to claim a larger local headcount for purposes of budget allowance?
Edit to add: my annual quota of generous assumptions about Mormon Inc is now full. 😊
It's all part of the retention efforts of the Corporate church. They give the glowing total number of members of record in the "world" as a mechanism and attempt to keep members "faithful" as if increasing membership has a direct correlation to prop up the idea that its "the true church" (meaning the temporal organization and their infallible leaders) as if it was some kind of an annual report on how great the business is doing. Increasing numbers in and of themselves do not establish or prove any truth. Although the opposite could be argued for decreasing numbers. The more people that see behind the curtain and realize that "all is not well in zion", the more people will leave. Unfortunately, most of the time they throw the baby out with the bath water. Because of what they see in the temporal organization they also abandon the principles of the gospel. They can't seem to separated the doctrine from the machine. When was the last time any members actually witnessed a talk in general conference that hadn't been sanitized and censored and the "leader" just got up and spoke as the spirit directed without a teleprompter?? Whomever controls this process is who is actually in charge of the structure of the church. They do not and will not allow the "brethren" to go off script. And evidently the "brethren" agree with this model. The LDS church has destroyed the ability of its membership to critically think and analyze what the church is projecting as "truth". They rule by subtle deception and dictate.
Had a layover at Heathrow today! Keep up your great work
Welcome (if briefly) to the United Kingdom!
Am going back to England and Scotland for 10 days, in March. Am in Spain, in Costa del Sol, this week
I enjoyed this playback, while making pumpkin spice waffles to make breakfast easier this month.
In the 1980s, I was in leadership in the Hyde Park Ward in London; as I remember, about 80% of record members were inactive. I was "counseled" to assign each member a Home Teacher. Each Home Teacher companionship had a total of 20 families or Individuals. Active members at that time were based on meeting attendance and whether they were with payer full or not. Those inactive never attended meetings. My view was to focus on strengthening the Active and Less active members rather than trying to find the members of record who have left the Church.
Bring on the women
That is the only hope for growth.
The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints has not stopped growing, unlike most Christian churches, and Christianity in general, which have been shrinking. Last year The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints increased 1.17%, 0.80% the year before, and 0.60% the year before that. Though it is down to the second fastest growing church in America, the Seventh Day Adventists growth is only temporary, before they split again.
@@bartonbagnes4605 What flavor/color Kool-Aid is your favorite?
Thanks!
You bet!
“Victorian child kept in the attic” 😂😂😂 💀
The church is changing the unit of measurements of the terms “Stake” and “Ward”.
Does a ward now mean 1 person….🤣
@@pattykake7195They are just preparing for a massive increase before it happens, as always. This is a proactive church. Unlike all the others, that can only react to things as they come, having no forewarning.
@@bartonbagnes4605 I agree…they are proactive in hiding heaps from the members..🤫
Wow...the latest revelation from a prophet 🎉
I've returned to my Christian heritage and it's wonderful that I am not required to attend a specific church location . I can attend whatever denomination without consequences. I am experiencing FREEDOM!
Me too!✝️👊
Love my favorite group of Brit’s.
These requirements show a clear focus on growth - more wards, more stakes, and presumably more ward buildings and temples. These are minimum requirement for when a new ward and stake can be justified - not the threshold at which a ward or stake is so large that is should consider splitting. If congregations are growing, what's the issue with letting them grow? The issues would be space in buildings first and foremost, but that's clearly not what these requirements are about. These requirements incentive the largest possible number of viable units, not the largest number of thriving units.
Really enjoyed this evening!!
Indeed! The numbers are growing because they now prohibit leaving! Many people are having legal battles with having their LD$ number and name removed. After 40 yrs a temple mormon I was still able to do that but after thousands left within a year just in Salt Lake City Utah alone, LD$ business needs their numbers up. Excommunication is no longer a thing either
As a never-mo I see a glaring problem, at least from my perspective. The missionaries are SO YOUNG! I get WHY they use kids between 18-21 or so, but they don’t have any life experience. They’ve never been married, had children, paid a mortgage, had a demanding job… they’re not seeing life from an adult point of view. They cannot relate to most of the people they’re trying to reach. I would never look to an 18 year old for advice on my life and religion, or expect them to have the answers. If I wanted to learn about the church and life in it, it wouldn’t be from a teenager. That’s what’s always confused me.
Watford Stake was originally started with five Wards. Hayes Ward originally came from Staines Stake. Aylesbury and Watford Ward from St Albans Stake. Wembley and Enfield from Hyde Park Stake. There was a Leighton Buzzard Branch split from Aylesbury Ward but it was short lived.
This is just getting in line with the numbers Jesus used when he was managing his "church" in 34 ad. Duh. Ongoing restoration and all.
Nemo, great report as always! Could you post links to the clear images of the 11/30/2023 FP statement? Thank you!
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
Arrggghhjh!
Note it says "pays a full or partial tithe" for means of establishing someone as an active member. 5$ once a year is a partial tithe is it not?
Many people are in a bubble - not seeing the growth that is happening in other areas like Thailand -
and in some areas, particularly western areas I know myself and many others are falling down a road of being caught up in our own understanding and in pride
- stepping outside that one would see that the church is growing strong in Asia, Africa etc
Where I am in Thailand there are baptisms each week of people who have gained solid testimonies of Christ …
You can see the growth physically in stake meetings that need bigger and bigger rooms to accommodate the members each stake conference..
the creation of new wards, stakes and even missions is a result of that growth here.
More importantly I see growth in the strength of the hearts of the members, particularly as opposition is also escalating.
Are these people being taught the Priesthood ban, the Nephites and Lamanites changing colors according to their "worthiness?"
Better relocate Jackson County, Mo to Thailand!
@@DeathValleyDazed definitely feels like Zion here!
I have a hard time believing that these statistics will be publicly available.
And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well -- and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
Yes, gold member =temple attendance. Malarkey. Pay tithing for salvation. Nonsense.
I'm a never Mo, but I've been learning about Mormonism since 1960 when I moved from California to Salt Lake City for a job. I was not searching for the true Christian church but had no choice but to learn what Mormons believed. It was not attractive to me. This was still the time when African Americans were considered unworthy, because of their ancestors, of full LDS benefits. That's why it is so ironic that the church is now being successful in converting Africans. Africans deserve better, as do you Brits, and everyone else. We all deserve the knowledge available from the internet. My closest neighbors are Jehovah's Witnesses, and they refuse to go on RUclips because Watchtower has warned them of the dangers to their faith. And Watchtower is right for once!
Mormonism is not the first Christian denomination to attempt to create the "true" version of Christianity. Remember the Puritans? Where are they now? After killing witches and Quakers in their Salem colony, they gradually lost their commitment and faded away. I think that Mormonism will do the same thing. As the spirit of growth becomes obviously an illusion, the commitment will fade. Christianity in the U.S. is headed down the same path as in Britain, we're just a little slower for some reason. But that doesn't mean that people will necessarily lose interest in spiritual matters. Religion in the world always seems to adapt to new conditions. Religion doesn't have to mean going to a church building every Sunday and sit quietly in pews while the priest mumbles a ritual. I agree with one of you who mentioned the idea of people of all beliefs working together for the good of the community, especially those in need. Service is a form of worship. Building a healthy community could be a point of unity for all people, and one of the biggest needs is teaching our kids to be good, caring people, to be truthful, honest, humble, compassionate, truth-seeking....and friendly people towards all, no matter what their religion, or lack of.
I enjoy listening to the honesty you folks express. It gives me hope for the future.
Utah in-migrant NeverMo here too. Agreed. The elephant in the room for me though is the massive wealth & thus power of the corporation. So many of the wise & open minded members are leaving or getting ex'd. I keep dreaming of a secret combination of ethical members who conspire to get all the GC tix and collectively vote against the current leadership then elect a slate of people more like these wonderful Brits. Imagine if the Brighamite church re- merged with the Community of Christ & adopted their doctrines & policies then started using the hoards of wealth to fix global problems like clean water, health, climate emergency, food insecurity etc. Britvengers to the rescue? @Nemo @mormoncivilwar @21stcenturysaints how about it?
The difference is that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints is being led by God, who has his own reasons for doing things, even if he doesn't tell us why. Those others didn't believe in revelation, so they never stood a chance. It's not like that was the first time God had restricted the Priesthood for his own reasons, Moses called 70 Elders/Priests/Prophets/Judges out of all the tribes of Israel, but shortly after, when the Children of Israel rebelled, God restricted the Priesthood to the tribe of Levi, more specifically to the sons of Aaron. Which was Moses and Aaron's tribe. They must have taken some accusations about that. The wicked are always looking for excuses to persecute the righteous.
@@JC-vq2cs If you believe in the basic principles of the restored gospel you must be able to separate them from the corrupt corporate 501c3 temporal machine that is the LDS church today. The eternal principles of the gospel can stand on their own without a temporal mortal/arm of the flesh led church.
@@greentie792 The point is there is no restored gospel there is nothing to restore, it is myth and fiction. No I don't believe it because it isn't true and I make an effort to study & question and learn and believe in true things and highest probability explanations of the universe & earth's and earth's inhabitants' place in it. I encourage you to do the same.
Fun note: I have a Christmas Cactus that has been blooming in April and October 😅
I noted with interest the definition of participation in the document. COVID had a major impact on participation where activity was limited to zoom. After Covid, as in education, participation changed as Jane’s comments indicated. People realised there was a different way to worship - in fact Jane is saying this as I type.
I feel that there should be an additional indicator of participation in order to include believers but not attending. One disappointing element in the updated policy is that this ‘grey’ area is again ignored. Amendments to home teaching as well as the understandable focus of missionaries on finding new members means that there is a huge pool of potential members who are not included and by derivation excluded … not wanted or needed?
I joined the church in 1966 but went to church first in 1960. I went to Ravenslea that became the Wandsworth Ward. At the time the Ward was huge. Many members took advantage of the Perpetual Emigration fund and shot off to SLC. It took Hugh B Brown to put the brakes on. The UK lost some fantastic people.
They have collapsed stakes here and are still building temples in wards where stakes here in the US.
They are required to spend a % to stay tax exempt….and with 200 billion plus why not…plenty more shell companies working overtime…🐚
@@pattykake7195Oh please, couldn't you have come up with something better and more truthful? Well definitely not more truthful if negative.
@@bartonbagnes4605 I did …do your independent research…👀
Quick tax write offs as they are under scrutiny from USA Auditors. People here leaving by the thousands
@@styphlynne8253 And others joining by the hundreds of thousands. The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints is still the second fastest growing church in the United States Of America, and the Seventh Day Adventists are only a temporary surge before another split. For only one church comes to a unity in the faith, all the others only divide and divide and divide again, from about 200 in Joseph Smith Jr. time to over 46,000 now.
The demographics of all the developed countries is changing, with a drop in the birth rate. Are the British LDS having fewer children? I know that's true for U.S. Mormons who used to typically have about 6 kids per family.
I am one of 21 kids. My brother had a dozen, brothers & sisters still bringing in those spirit babies ! smh But then in UT, ID, WY, CO USA polygamy is still a thing !
The only way to salvage the LDS is to throw out the BoM entirely, then focus on social/welfare programs that builds a sense of community and belonging among members. Of course they will never do this because they are too fixated on greed and resisting any positive change, so their demise is inevitable.
My favorite people!!!
5:50 When I served my mission in the late eighties in Argentina, we went to a Stake Conference where the Stake presidency and every bishopric were released. They then called a District Presidency and a Branch Presidency for each of the prior wards. They made this change due to the lack of active priesthood holders. I don’t know if they had ever done this anywhere else.
So pay your tithe go temple do calling. Say goodbye to doing anything else. That is why this church is total BS.
Just same as Jehova witnesses.
Scams.
Close them down!!!
USA auditors will !
For the algorithm and to support the mission. Just trying to pontificate on the uniformity.
Census data(CD) shows wildly inaccurate reported figures(RF). Tonga 68kRF/18.5kCD. NZ 117kRF/54kCD. AUS 156kRF/58kCD. Chile 600kRF/140k/CD. Canada 200kRF/88kCD. Mexico 1.5mRF/315kCD. Brazil 1.5mRF/227kCD. Reported figures are inflated. But they have the real numbers.
Britannia Ward the Club 18-30 YSA Ward of Hyde Park Stake. It's a transient Ward with students ans ex-pats members. The biggest bugbear are the cliques. They only reach out to their own inner circle. They are the Britannia Ward version of Mean Girls. The worst thing is they have callings. One of them was FHE Mother and she was nasty towards me. The only time she wasn't mean was when she ignored me. Missionary work was steady. The more convert baptism quickly became less active because they were excluded and offended by the clique. I stopped visiting because I became disillusioned with Britannia Ward.
I’ve not heard great things about Britannia Ward, I’m sorry you had a rough time of it!
I have the doc with #s for stk & ward #s, if you want a copy.
They're desperate. Im here for it! 😂😂😂
In NZ there are 237 members per ward who still identify as members via the census from a reported figure from
The Church of 514 members of record per ward. That’s a 46% in theory activity rate, but doesn’t account for inactive self identifying Mormons.
Would they split wards and stakes to have a flood of growth that helps global figures? 228 wards jumping to maybe 328 is probably doable. Do that in centres of high activity rates and you can promote growth through cannibalising existing units. Australia has had strong growth only through migration from New Zealand and the Pacific Islands. NZ from migration from the Pacific and large pacific families.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is doing well and will always do well as long as the Lord is willing. It's not perfect, but the Lord doesn't demand perfection or else we would all be doomed. If you want to be part of that community, then welcome.
I think they say brothers and sisters because General Officers includes some ladies.
Is this the same measurement that would be used to collapse wards and branches?
I wish it was that logical and simple but my guess is that existing wards will limp on until they are absolutely forced to consolidate. In the meantime, good people will be broken in the process 😢
I really appreciate this channel so don't take this the wrong way but: isn't it cool that the Church creates a space where 70-year-olds can regularly interact with and mentor the children in their community?
Why is the letter addressed to “sisters” when no sisters would be members of any of the groups listed ?
🌻
I have recommended this stream to Apostate Alex. Don’t know if you’ve done a collaboration with him, but he does similar topics on Scientology.
If you attend the Temple then you can conclude that originally the women must have been considered to holding priesthood as they wear the priesthood robes during the endowment. The robes are exactly the same ad the men except for the headwear. So.....
No that's not how we were taught. Nor the reason of the "resemblance" I got out after 40+ yrs
@@styphlynne8253 Yes, I assume that you were not taught the reality of what you would have experienced in the Endowment. And I don't see any real proof that the LDS church leadership in general even know now what "Priesthood" is let alone what it is for and how it can benefit the individuals who believe in the principles of what was restored. Men and Women. The fact is, the membership of the LDS church are not "taught" much of anything pertaining to what the Endowment experience actually is before, during or after the Endowment. The principles of the gospel that encompass the knowledge and blessings of God to his children revealed in the Endowment have been all but lost to the LDS church. They go through the motions and don't comprehend the knowledge that can be gained through the metaphor that was historically presented in a true Endowment in a true Temple. When they converted the Temples into movie theatres they were no longer true Temples as the conversion removed the ability of the attendees to glean understanding by the process of moving through the Temple from one room/order to the next, always at least one step higher and in a clockwise direction (just as one example among many). The gutting of the Temples was on purpose. The Temples as they were built originally in Utah were architectural metaphors for the plan of salvation and exaltation. The LDS church since the late 1800's have lost much of what was considered essential doctrine and understanding of why we are on the earth and what we can learn from our experience here. The principles and doctrines of the gospel can stand independently on their own without a corrupt temporal corporate organization or buildings or glorified movie theatres. I wish you the best in your quest for truth.
Membership in a meaningful way does include Christ if you consider the temple recommend requirement.
"Like casting the Nativity ...". 😹😹😹. No wonder I am confused. Really sad. Should not be such a fire-drill.
3:30: It’s already good. Thanks Peter 😂
The scripture not about marriage to heaven it’s individuality relationship with Jesus Christ!
3:10 I'm sorry. Was that creating new eunuchs? Now there's a potential solution to those pesky claims of child SA.
As re the example of Tallahassee: in the realm of human socialization/ society, when an individual vigorously and determinedly pushes himself on another person, what do we call this?
Islam and Catholicism come to mind.
@@bartonbagnes4605À❤❤
Some left the CHURCH, please, don't misunderstand, we all rebel, sometimes. But, we can't leave the CHURCH alone?
mIssionaries can't leave anyone alone.
@@johnrowley310 Your comment perfectly reveal, your extreme lack of knowledge, of the fullness and the truthfulness of, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. You have the spirit of deception.
@@johnrowley310 Some of you, kept ignoring the fullness and the truthfulness of, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS.
Nothing can save mormonism except the Adam - God Doctrine married to the "Eternal Wiener Doctrine".
What are the pros & cons of being a "participating member?"
All cons and no pros…🤣
@@pattykake7195Constitutional, conductive, constructive, consistent sure, but there are also plenty of pros. Productive, prosperous, professional, proactive, just to name a few.
Everyone has their way to enlightenment, if this is yours its true to you. A reason to get up or be happy. Born & raised LD$ I would say the cons were not preparing me with real life tools to cope outside of the religion. After so many false beliefs I thought the world was also like UTAH USA. smh ! what an awakening. From FLD$/RLD$/CLD$ to LD$ it just kept sucking me deeper. After thousands of dollars, trips to ridiculous rituals at the temple etc etc I had an awakening
@@bartonbagnes4605 You are forgetting the biggie, the whole thing is a CON..job…🤥
Biggest Pro: cleaning church toilets without pay.
Sorry to bust all you 'hating" bubbles. This has nothing to do with any "Illusion" of growth. So your premise is ridiculous, very few pay attention to number of stakes. Do you even know the number of Stakes?
This change makes a lot sense; 1. Allows a larger stake to be split, so that the Stake leaders can provide better leadership to a smaller number of wards. Especially in areas that may cover a large geographical area, it would reduce travel time a lot. 2. Provides for a stake/ward to be formed in a more remote area. 3. Allows the ability to build smaller meetinghouses and Stake buildings. 4. When they have Stake Conference they can fit in one building.
Seems like a great idea I didn't know they made this change, Thanks!!
So you don’t attend often enough to keep up on church news?
Just not a news story that affects very many Church members. It seems like a good change. I wouldn't expect this changing more than a handful of Stakes or wards. @@DeathValleyDazed
@@Surfer5689-ez2yd Will not affect that many church members….because not that many church members even attend church. Activity rates of “members” are in the toilet.
Wow all this requirement by man not God ! Holy Bible says saved by grace alone !
Doesn't "dear brothers and sisters" just show that the church is respecting the gender identity of trans brothers? Don't be mean to such an inclusive intention...
Mr. Nemo, left CHURCH, whatever commands he fail, Sodom&Gumorrah? Babylon?Egypt?why leave CHURCH? Now excuses?/lies?
Are you mentally ill? Nothing you post makes sense.
if only functionaries and full payers are "participating" are the rest then "guests" or do i get that wrong? they're still welcome to be there i hope 😂
LOL I knew as soon as this story hit you'd have this reaction. So predictable! And so fast! Do you ever sleep?
It’s the power of time zones, I’m awake while Americans are asleep!
Blah. Blah, Blah...and Nemo saves The World. Show me your Glory...lol
😂
I come here for laughs and it never fails me. The "demise" Of the LDS Church is always just at the threshold of happening, but never seems to happen, except in your minds. Some facts MOST churches are losing membership, But the LDS Church is still growing but at a lower rate, 17,000,000 members. The Church had 250,000 convert baptisms last year (that is an increase), full time missionaries have increased tremendously to about 75,000 this year. That is the 3rd highest number of missionaries ever, with the two higher years being after they lowered the age. If that continues the Church could have the most missionaries ever. How do you all explain the increase in missionaries? I thought all young people were leaving. As far as counting members that are not active ALL Churches do this. The LDS Church is the only Church that actually keeps a decent record of membership. Do you think Catholics that go to Mass once a year for Christmas are counted as Catholics, YES.
I have been active and inactive in the Church over many years. I travel and visit many areas. I don't see ANY "illusion" I see people there. Most wards and Temples that I have attended are as full as they have been over the years. I would say there are two exceptions. Areas that have an aging demographics with no kids see a decrease, and younger new home areas are expanding. Also, I have been surprised how busy the Temples are. The Temples that I have seen are ALL very full and in many cases you need a reservation or you don't get in.
I have read about this "demise" since the 1980's and all the anti Church material then and now. But I have never seen this demise.
The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is the true church of Jesus Christ
NOT…🤭
There is very little evidence of a historical Jesus. The gospels are GrecoRoman-influenced literary works not histories. Paul never met Jesus. No one wrote about him in his time at least not anything that survives, the Josephus reference is contested. What there is shows him as an apocalyptic faithful Jew who did not found a church but rather objected to the other sects who functioned as Roman puppets and defiled the Jewish temple. If anything he wanted to restore his version of Judaism. There is nothing to restore in terms of a Xian church, that was invented much later. That is the reality. It is a myth he founded a church Honestly the BoM and Joseph Smith did not initially either. The current scholarship is fascinating I encourage you to look into it.
@@JC-vq2csSomeone has been doing some VERY selective reading. Yes I'm familiar with them trying to come up with ANY explanation to explain away fulfilled prophecies, like trying to post date the writing until after the events, but that is getting increasingly more difficult as more discoveries are made. But you can't fault them for trying.
@@pattykake7195 New age religion less than 150 yrs old. Meets all criteria of a cult !
@@JC-vq2csthis reminds me of how Rome took over the Greek religion, renaming the entire pantheon. From Aphrodite to Venus, Rome forced control of religious ideology. It was only a few hundred years later, Rome took over the history and religion of the Jewish people, creating Christianity and again forced a change upon all lands they would control. The advent of Christianity was forced by bloody wars, inquisitions, torture and every kind of sex abuse. No ordinary person was allowed to read the Bible until the 1500's. It was recited in Latin only. Even the famous Book of Kells had the 4 gospels, which is highly abbreviated from the text we have since the KJV. When Constantine and his predecessors failed at offing the belief in Jesus so they took the Old Testament from the Jewish people, enacted a total change from a Roman pantheon to a new Christian pantheon, by force, to be able to tax the globe with a Roman flat tax of 10% instead of the ten percent above all necessary expenditures such as food, clothing and shelter. The Jewish gift to the temple was a gift and not compulsory. Modern Christianity has degraded onto 360 different religions nationwide (US) and over 4000 globally. This proves that none of them agree upon principle and have superiority complex over "non-believers" which is a red flag with regard to this version of thoughts police.
Mr. Nemo left the CHURCH, refused to repent, from personal sins, whatever it is, either Sodom & Gomorrah, Babylonian, or Egypt, now up w/excuses, lies, wow.
Wot on earth are you rambling illiterately about?
@@britishsubject8722 Your comment perfectly reveal your extreme lack of knowledge and rebelliousness.
lol
the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints is the fastest growing christian denomination.
I googled "the fastest growing Christian denomination" and was told that Pentecostalism is the fastest growing Christian movement.
@@harlanlang6556 not by percentages.
for example if there are two mormons and two more join that is 100% growth.
pentecostals are merely a branch of protestantism.
percentage wise since mormons are far fewer in total numbers than protestants their growth is faster.
According to church records the membership is currently 15 million+. The problem I have with this is they include the dead, and the members who stopped attending.
The only ones that are deleted are the “excommunicated,” and those who formally write letters to the church explaining they no longer wish to be members.
They don’t take into account how many people have left, and how many died. Because that would shrink their numbers tremendously.
@@grayman7208We are not talking percentages, since new denominations are constantly being created, and last year The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints only increased 1.17%, up from 0.80% the year before and 0.60% the year before that. But since most Christian denominations are shrinking, as is Christianity in general, any church growing by tens to hundreds of thousands is bound to be near or at the top.
That does not make it true...