Yes. I prefer the Pitch Bend and Modulation wheels all day. I can manipulate the expressions easier with my fingers and once I hear the right modulation effect applied, I can keep it there effortlessly just by letting go. Plus, the position of the Mod wheel gives you a physical and visual reference for next time; almost like another slider. Thank you for these videos and I hope Yamaha is listening. Greetings from the USA!
Hi Leigh. I also love my Genos 2. I can definitely understand your personal criticisms. But: I am a child of the 70s and 80s, and for me the FM sounds were a purchasing criterion. I don't have any problems with the joystick either. But what surprises me very, very, very much: Neither you nor any other commentator complains about the really cruel and terrible voice switching during OTS or registration changes. For me personally, after six years of Genos, this is the real no go. Anyway: please keep it up! Good work!
At last ! Thank you. I've been trying to find out whether this voice switching problem has,at last, been solved. From your comment it appears not. I call it "the Blast" when it happens. My old Technics kn6500 didn't do it and when I upgraded to the Tyros 5 this was a nasty surprise. I specifically asked the dealer whether this problem had been cured when I upgraded to the Genos and was assured it had -Wrong! I'm a home hobbyist player and it annoys the hell out of me so I wonder how performing musicians put up with it. This is a deal breaker for me, I won't be upgrading to the Genos 2 because of this continuing problem. I can add a Modx to my Genos for £2000 less than the price I have been quoted for the Genos upgrade. That will give me smooth switching and the FMx engine.
I have my Genos2 now for 10 days, updated from Tyros4. Like your videos, they help on getting started in a very useful way! My Points are (may be I didn’t find the right way?) - couldn’t set favourite on voices from expansion packs - open a specific playlist with an an assignable button - multipads are hard to reach for left hand - missing a search over all playlists (only possible when using “add record”) - freeze for the additional button and fader display - easy way to save a registration/playlist/style with one or two clicks (if overwritten), for now clicking >File-save-save here-done-yes-ok that’s not usable! Just show in the display that a registration is changed and has to be saved by a small friendly red “save” button
Hi Leigh You are so right about the string sounds. The closet I have got to a string sound that I like, as a lead voice, is a combination of the strings on page four in the legacy section (genos1) together with kino violins. When I studied orchestration I was taught that strings as a lead instrument group should always be tireless to the ear. Sadly with Genos this is not the case, although many of the other non string voices are brilliant. Yet we are talking about a rather expensive keyboard and I believe it was unacceptable, given the criticism levelled at the string sounds, over the past few years, that Yamaha have not seriously address the issue in Genos 2. Perhaps they will finally address this issue in Genos3! Another excellent video Leigh,
I alluded to this in my response to Leigh, but I have to wonder, how many people actually can hear the difference. Here in the U.S., they don't really teach music education in our primary schools any more, and 'Band' is an 'after-school' activity, and not actively included as part of a curriculum. Which is sad, actually. So, I grew up listening to jazz, swing, big band, and The Great American Songbook. Not a lot of strings there. I did listen to The Boston Pops, Arthur Fiedler, and John Williams, but even there, not enough to be able to really hear what you and Leigh were describing. Your comment 'When I studied orchestration . . . ' is very telling, and I'm sure gives you great insight into what strings SHOULD sound like. On the other hand, though, I have to ask you, how many users of Genos 1/2, Korg, Ketron, Roland, etc., really *know* what real strings should sound like. I don't. I know that the U.K. has a better music education system and more local 'citizen bands and orchestras' than the U.S. does, and music is more appreciated there from the point of the musician, but even still, how many people in the U.K. or anywhere else for that matter, listening to Genos 2 strings, have the same reaction that you and Leigh do?
Hi Gary Thank you for responding to my comments. The truth is I really learnt what strings were like going to concerts, of the London philharmonic orchestra, the bbc symphony orchestra and others. For me, it’s not only the sound that a wonderful string section makes it is the way you feel it. I expect it is almost impossible to recreate that sound and feeling through the medium of a keyboard, yet although I am not a technician in this field I would expect Yamaha to get closer than they currently do. I must add that from the age of eight I was a chorister of the Royal School of Church music, here in England and was exposed to a classical music education. Today, as in your country that it is, sadly, rarely the case.
@@RGM543it is unfortunate that so much in the way of education has gone by the wayside. There's a scene from 'Mr. Holland's Opus' with Gertrude trying to get the clarinet down, and he plays the record Mr. Holland puts on The Kingsman's Louie Louie, and he makes the comment that 'they can't sing, they have absolutely no harmonics, and they're playing the same three chords over and over again.' He's absolutely right. Of course, he goes on to say ' . . . and I love it!' Why? Because it's fun. Well, somewhere along the way, the 'fun' of music got dropped by the wayside. Most bands today can't sing, don't have any harmonics and play the same three chords over and over again, and to me, it's boring. Not to mention that between all the screaming and the amount of distortion, I can't make out a melody anywhere, if there is one there. I haven't been to a concert in years. In fact, the last concert I went to was in 1982, and it was Chet Atkins, a very small and personal concert at the World's Fair in Knoxville, TN. There were maybe 100 of us there to hear him play, and it was awesome. Just him playing, no band, no nothing. A solo act. So, we seem to be lacking any real musical knowledge. We don't hear what 'real' music sounds like without effects, distortion, overdrive and 'auto-tune' for albums. There are very few musicians from today that I listen to because none of them provide me with anything I want to hear. But, having said all of that, I don't have your background for classical music and orchestral music in a live setting, nor do I have the education in what to listen for. But, having said that, I started selling keyboards, organs and pianos way back in the 1980s, and I did that for a few years until I moved on to something else. I remember when sample playback first hit, and Yamaha came out with the first of the Clavinovas, and how remarkable it sounded, and how many people where blown away by it. Had a blind gentleman come in and play one, and he flat out told me it 'wasn't a piano sound, but it was good!' Sample technology is still getting better, and maybe one day, someone will come out with a string sample on an arranger keyboard that's good.
As a person who plays both piano/keyboards and guitar, IMO the joystick is much better for guitar voices, especially on electric/distorted guitars. What would truly benefit the Genos owners would be for Yamaha to do what Roland has done on their flagship keyboard and include both a joystick and a set of wheels. You got the wheels for your organs and EP’s, and a joystick for guitars, and synth leads. Even the baby Fantom 0 series has both.
@@Dbentzjr The joystick being spring loaded works better for guitars. I own a Roland F-06. Having both on one keyboard has me questioning why others are not doing it. I wish all of my keyboards and midi controllers had both.
Hi Leigh, with you all the way on the...not much-Joystick. My preference would go to the modulation wheels on the Tyros 5 and even the PRS S9000Pro were better than the Genos wiggle stick. But like most things, you'll never please all the people all the time. Wishing you a G R E A T New Year.
Hi Leigh, once again for a great presentation of what needs to be improved ... I totally agree about the stings section as it seems to be fine for pop music but certainly not for composition such as film scores, classical music repertoire and other professional use in all honesty! I also have the Yamaha Montage 7 76 keys and the strings are not that greater than the Yamaha Genos2 neither. The packs that you's suggesting which are from sound packs are much better than what on this new Genos2 hearing you playing these pack. Question if I may! Do you see a big difference between sound packs Epic Strings 1 and Strings2? Should one by both? which is your opinions please?
Leigh...I find all of your videos interesting, but most importantly, practical and to the point. Your reviews/comments are truly invaluable. I pre-ordered the Genos2 a few weeks ago with an estimated delivery time of mid-April. While I got what I consider a substantial discount on the price, I'm going to cancel my order, mostly because of your comments about the memory being maxed-out so easily. For the premium price you pay for this keyboard, Yamaha should, by default, give you plenty of room to grow when it comes to internal expansion memory. Providing just 3GB of voice expansion memory is what I consider ignorant for a keyboard in this price range. Several other shortcomings also played a role in my decision to cancel, but thank you for exposing the issues you covered in your excellent video.
Eh? Im confused, when did I point out failings of this instrument, yes the memory is the same, but that's all and honestly speaking I still use the same packs that I always have. I don't recommend anyone installs packs for the sake of but instead, curate what you do have. Im using mine on a daily basis and my empty memory stands at 1.5gb - just don't load all the **** that is out there. It's an instrument for playing and be more selective in what you install. I'd buy this keyboard 10 times over compared to anything else out there at the moment.
@@LeighWilbraham No worries, sir. I’ve taken in your reviews and comments, as well as from others. And yes...I do recognize that you praised the Genos2 much more than you criticized it. I’m canceling my order mainly-but not solely-because under-sizing the expansion memory, for me, is a show-stopper. As you pointed-out, memory is cheap and, for the price of this keyboard, I wouldn’t expect to have to make compromises or feel limited anytime soon after purchasing the Genos2. I know I’d want to add more voices to the Genos2, and I’m not willing to offshore voices anytime soon to be able to play my “voices of the day”. You’ve had the keyboard for only weeks and you’re already engaging in that process. Like you, I’d also be using the Genos2 daily if I had one. If Yamaha provided 8-10GB of expansion memory, I probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Yamaha could have been more practical and generous with the voice expandability of the Genos2 so buyers wouldn’t feel even a hint of obsolescence immediately following plunking down the big bucks it takes to acquire this keyboard, IMHO.
Very good valid points re- strings. I’ve been through the range from Tyros 1-5 & Genos. Still much prefer the strings of the Tyros 4se. A little disappointed also I think are the Choir / vocals. Always lacked behind Roland. Would like to have seen an improvement but sadly not. The G2 is a cracking keyboard that could be even better. Just my thoughts. Happy New Year to all in the Genos Club.
Hi Leigh, as a Genos 1 player I like to suggest to you all - a little bit like RGM543 - for much better string sounds: 1) try to combine different sounds next to each other in "Right-1" and "Right-2" perhaps like you put "Seattle1stViolins" at volume 50 with "Symphonic" from the legacy folder page 4 at volume 80 together -- try different loudness levels to your liking and 2) try to adjust the sounds over "Menu" - and "VoiceEdit" - here for example try to play with the "Cutoff" filter and above all with the "Attack-" and "Release" levels -- belief me: you will find the right kind of strings that you´ve missed when playing the sounds solo and and not adjusted ....I know: there is much "soundworking" to do but feel free to try --many regards from Solingen/Germany
@@jurgenkoppe268 sadly no combination of sounds can make a better sound than this expansion pack soundpacks.co.uk/products/epic-strings-for-yamaha-s-series-tyros-and-genos
@@LeighWilbraham ...sadly your answer can´t convince me really - cause my impression is, that you can´t really try to mix and adjust all the genos strings sounds from the legacy and the original string soundbank - this is really!!!!!!! timeconsuming work - I just started with these work in these days and perhaps I still need weeks to come to an end .... the youtube soundsamples from the epic-strings soundpack 1 are only to around 50% in my taste - but at least perhaps all is a matter of taste - for me some of these sounds are a bit too soft and sweat with too much flair of the 50s or 60s .....this is not my music
Honestly the only thing I don’t like about Genos2, is that here in Western Australia, I have to wait until March before mine is delivered. I’m watching your videos and dreaming of the day.
Dear Leigh, thanks for another informative and interesting video. I have the Genos for several years already, and I enjoy every minute of it. I like the sounds, and the stick at the left side doesn't bother me so much. I would have purchased Genos 2 if it overcame some of the problems I have to deal with in Genos (and that I had to deal with my Tyros4 as well). One of these issues is the control over individual Multipads. The problem ocures with continuous Multipad playing, although you disable it in next registration. I usually dealt with it by limiting the playing time of the specific Multipad, but I don't understand why we have to deal with this problem with Genos2 as well. Another big problem is the Choking sound between transitions of different sounds with different effects, when you change to next registration. This problem of bad transition is so dramatic, especially when you want to play or record a whole song with transitions with different effects of different voices, when you change to next registration. I record a lot of the music I play, but in many cases, I have to record separate parts (eather by recording in the keyboard itself, or by using a DAW software in order to combine them), in order to avoid that terrible choaking sound, and to show a smooth flow of the song. Will you please refer to those issues in your videos as well? Thanks again for the informative and interesting reviews.
Dear Leigh, Someone in your name was in contact with me on Telegram yesterday, and I wonder if it was indeed you, or was it a fake account. So I stopped the conversation, as I was not sure it was you. Was it indeed you?
Hello Leigh. I hope this finds you well today. Joystick versus Wheels. Personal preference. Since I do not play a lot of 'synth' music or instruments where I think I need modulation, the joystick on the Korg works for me, just fine. However, if you like wheels, that's great. Yamaha could easily solve that problem by offering 'modules.' Literally, a plug-in module that you can remove and replace with another module. Four screws and a connector, and you have the pitch and modulation device of choice. It really would not be that hard to do, and they could even include both modules in the package., Rotary sounds. I have never been impressed with the Leslie simulation on any Yamaha product. Again, not bashing or Brand Superiority, but I do like the Leslie emulation on the Korg. You can hear them spin up and slow down, and even as far back as my PA800, I have the ability to edit the simulation. I wish Yamaha would incorporate that. Strings. You've got me here. I do not listen to strings enough to hear how 'bad' they are to you. It may be a fact that my hearing is going, or that I just don't have the experience listening to real strings. For me, for the uses I would have for them, they seem fine. Sure, the older ones you showed us seemed, to me, marginally better, but I don't see the complaint. Again, that's on ME and my lack of knowledge. BUT, in saying that, I have to wonder how many other people don't hear the things that you do and also wonder what you're talking about. Your comment about Memory is something I agree with. You may very well be correct that the OS limits the expansion to 3 GB or something, and you're correct that in this day and age, it should be more. I wouldn't stop at 8 GB, though. I can get 32 GB of Crucial memory for $80USD. If they had externally accessible sockets for DDR4 or DDR5 memory sockets, you could easily install 64GB of RAM, and that's what it should be. The PA5X will support up to 1TB of memory via an SD card, although to be honest, I'm not sure if you can put sound and style packs on that, so that may not be a good comparison. Apparently, you can also access information, such as styles, directly from the Drives (of which the 1TB SD card, if installed, would be one choice). So Yamaha should have something like that which gives you more storage space. I did get a chuckle out of the comment about the moron who tries to hack popular YT users and 'Text Me on xxxx' and expect you to respond. It's sad that there are people out there doing that. I get that on most of the popular channels I subscribe to, so of course, they all get blocked. It's annoying, but you know, I never thought people would actually contact YOU because of it, I thought they were smart enough to know spam when they see it. The final thing that I mentioned previously, would the ability to select between either 'Catch' or 'Jump' for the sliders, and be able to set it the way you want it to be, and even with enough granularity to be able to set it for each style. Finally, I don't really drink, so between 10 p.m. and midnight, I'll be praying in the new year.
Have you ever tried putting string sounds together, such as kino strings warm, and the legacy voice that's simply callled "strings"? I heeard that once in another RUclips video and it sounded absolutely great, to my ears anyway.
Brilliant comment at 18:19, Leigh. I agree. Yamaha has a very good synth division. They could easily put some of those great sounds from the Montage series into the G2 but the marketing people are so terrified of shooting themselves in the foot. Instead, they choose to use their older voices that sound flat compared to Montage voices. That simply adds up to $4,700 they won't get from me. Do they care? No.
Maybe Yamaha should consider equipping Genos with the sound engine and voice editing capability of MoXF... Better sound quality and no risk of ruining the marketing of Montage.
@@JBF-GST-Tanda 👍👍! I would buy that in a heartbeat. Also, the Genos interface and editing software is very convoluted and unconventional. For example, they use *Copy here* instead of *Paste.* They need to stop using their own twisted terminology and stick with what people are used to - not that I'm a big MS fan. They too suck in a lot of ways!
You don't prefer this joystick because you are a musician, but those who sing at events in Eastern Europe (Balkans) or the Orient use this joystick a lot, which was a very good idea of the Yamaha management !
In many ways, I feel that Genos is being held back by backwards compatibility issues. For example, more than one fill choice would do wonders for boosting authenticity. Also, I’d love to see the split and layering options completely overhauled so you could set up on each voice as you wish. However, I suspect both these options haven’t seen the light of day in pursuit of backwards compatibility. Also, while improved again in the 2, it’s true to say that the acoustic and electric pianos sound nowhere near as authentic and full as those in Yamaha’s digital piano range. If Korg can crack this with the PA5X, there’s surely no reason Yamaha couldn’t do the same. As you inferred in the video, I suspect that the problem may have at its heart different product teams acting as if they are in competition rather than working for the same company.
Love your comment and agree with you. I feel the fear of upsetting backwards compatibility. I don’t understand why anyone would buy a new keyboard only to make it sound like their old one. It’s absolutely mind blowing someone would do that. Every keyboard I’ve owned has been a clean slate.
I bought (on my Sweetwater card) a Montage M8x when it first came out. All i can say is it is/was the best synth I've had. If you but a Montage do get the M8x As it has a third sound generator versus the two in the smaller versions. The only problem is/was I'm poor, living on pension. A month or so after getting the Montage the Genos 2 came out. I lusted for it more than the Montage so I traded in the Montage for the Genos. If I could afford it I would have both.
Leigh, I have a group of sounds I would like you to evaluate particularly the strings seeing that you are talking about them here, my hearing is not the best to pick out the finer points
First of all, I LOVE the GENOS2. About the joystick, for me it works better than the wheel with guitar solo's. I do understand that you miss a mod-wheel on his own. Could be a a good addition. Strings, a matter of taste i guess. If the stings from the legacy are usefull then i don't need really new strings. What i really don't understand is, ok cool that we can get the packs that already where available, but why not build it in the the basis keyboard. Now we lose half the amount of flash memory on 'old' stuff. I did it of course, we can use the styles. Also what i don't like is, every pack has its own new samples. But the way these sounds are stored is so pure random. There are so many accordion samples in multiple packs... (also strings, maybe you can find some usefull sounds there). But you have to search trough all the packs to find the sounds. That could be done much better. Further what i do not like is that everything has way to much reverb, i will definately need to adjust that every time. Also with the OTS is the volume of L R1,R2,R3 not in balance with the style, often way to loud. Maybe it has something to do with syle dynamics. However it needs some adjustments. My wish, is after 15 years of development, why can we only layer 3 voices...? Why not a system like in Montage where you can layer 16 voices, but 6 woud be great also. Still love this instrument! it's Great!
I hope Yamaha creates some great new expansion packs with leads and synths sounds. I agree, a lot of sounds are from the 80s. I purchased already multiple sound packs from third parties what should be included in the Genos2
Ive owned a PSRSX900 for three years. Before that I owned a PSRS900. Thank you 😊. The first bugbear (joystick rather than proper pitch/mod wheels) is the main thing for me on my PSRSX900. An atrocious design flaw.
I think I have watched all Leigh’s videos on Genos2 and agree this does seem to be so far above sound wise over my Genos. Leigh said he didnt like the sliders, I find them really useful for setting volumes etc, he didn’t say why, maybe he could let us into why he dislikes them. Oh by the way I much prefer the joystick to the wheels.
Hi Leigh, i agree with everything. Having had tyros5 and genos 1 this is not wath i had expexded. In fact its a genos1. The organ is terreble, why not a software hammond b3 like in the yamaha yc73 stage. It can be fi xed by an upgrade.
Believe me in sound department, even those professionals live players have admitted that single sounds of Genos 1, Genos 2 and even Tyros 5, not even layered !!... in most cases have excellent quality in every aspects you imagine... be it windy instruments or orchestral epic sounds or all nylon guitar or E. Guitar and many many more sound category.... beside Sound adjustment on the Arrangers, in YEM computer program ( Yamaha expansion manager) you can layer up to 8 sounds, you can create astonishing sound adjustement or as whole, creating very high quality sound similar to flagship synthesizers with LFO and all... almost every thing that current pro Synths are cable of , you can do it with this Arrangers But as I said, the sounds and samples are extremely high quality that you don't need to do any thing... In these arrangers
Hi Leigh. I do agree with you on the joystick and the poor strings section. In addition, why oh why did Yamaha not include that wonderful Bosendorfer Piano which is found in the new Clavinova. Also....Yamaha.....where are the 16 pads? There's space for them (like the Pa5X)
The 16 pads on the Korg are something that were useless. Doesn't need 16 pads - it's more of a synth thing - not an arranger. Find time to sit hitting pads and playing - can't be done.
I don't have either, although the PA5X is the next keyboard I want to own. In looking at the Pads on that, I don't see any particular use for them for the kind of music I play (The Great American Songbook). I agree with Leigh that they are more of a 'synth' thing. I hope that Korg comes out with an update to give them added functionality for things which are useful to musicians, and not 'DJs.' Furthermore, if Korg allowed you to load your own samples (which I don't see in the manual) I think that would be super useful.
@@GaryMCurran you can load your own samples but the system needs a rocket scientist to get your head around it. Korg have the mean to make a good competitor if they got rid of the car crash that is their user interface. It’s worse than a Ketron and that’s saying something.
@@LeighWilbraham you have commented on this before, and I agree that from what I've seen, the Genos is supremely easy to navigate. As to User Samples for the Matrix, there is a User tab which I didn't notice, so I guess you can load one-shot or looped samples. It also gives you the ability to instantly mute parts, if you have that screen/function loaded, but I still say that, at least for me, it's a waste, I'd never use it in its current configuration.
I think they have go for open sampling system and capability of changing sound without any cut of DSP or oscillator like korg kronos , now you can not edit or even create super articulation voices , not even a slight change in layers or multisamples , everything is locked , even overwriting on original voice and styles and renaming categories should be considered, these thing is the same from Tyros 2 till Genos 2 , unfortunately Yamaha is not Customizable and Korg is too Complicated and we don’t have a third choice. I have been waiting from tyros 2 for a customizable arranger keyboard from Yamaha
Problem I have is using Playlists and or Downloaded mp3/midi songs. I have no problem loading either, however when I go from using the mp3/midi songs downloaded on usb to the free Playlist songs on the other usb then it keeps giving me 'file not found' error. However, after turning machine off and on again the Playlist songs are working again. I hope that makes sense, otherwise so far i'm loving the Genos2. The Strings problem doesn't annoy me too much, as a 73 year old with a bit of hearing loss and not a great ear , it still sounds fine. That Wheel thing never gets used anyway but I agree not the best. And thank you for all do on these videos!
Hi Leigh happy new year I have just bought 2 new keyboard from your friend in bolton which you recommended big thanks.the genos 2 & the Ketron event I never owned the genos 1 before but watching your videos on Facebook has helped me a lot understand these keyboards I agreed with everything you said about the Yamaha genos 2 .i also have the korg px 4 & the px 5 arranger keyboards which I love playing.but am most impressed with the the Ketron event can you please send me the the link for the Ketron event pro from Ajam can’t find it anywhere? Big thank thanks from me hope you and family have a great new year.Colin from bury.
I think the pitch stick is a better idea than wheels . I find it much more expressive than wheels . I would struggle to go back to wheels after years of not playing arrangers . From what I can see - I can’t hear any kind of seamless voice switching when OTS is applied . I’ve got that function on my keyboards and it would literally drive me insane to have an audible cut off between OTS selections . Another feature I’d like see added is polyphonic after touch or some mpe functionality in the Keybed for solo orchestral sounds and synth sounds . As for user sounds memory is always important so in agreement with you there
Many of the features you mention are more synth related where you’re not playing a melody and therefore can use the aftertouch on things like pads - playing melody on a arranger leaves no time to play voices that use the aftertouch.
I can’t say I agree with you there , I used to use aftertouch a lot on my previous Tyros but you have to use it within a certain time frame for sure . It’s a lovely sounding keyboard though
@@alexmcallister492 I’ve come to realise that there’s a brick wall between synths and arrangers and the two are played completely differently and have their own market.
Hi Leigh, first thank you for your content, actually I'm totally agree with you and in my opinion strings is since ever is the worse through all their keyboard products from this category, but the BIG question for YAMAHA why they didn't include the legato/portamento engine they kept in PSR A5000 ?? that's the weird mentality of YAMAHA's people. Also many things needed to be improved in the arranger section specially the style creator like : Why I'm limited to 1 bar for the fills and break? and why there is no variation related to the chords like it's in the KORG arrangers? actually simple things is there since very long time, it doesn't need quantum physics to do it...😂
I have the same questions about chord variations, also. Not all Korg styles have all six chord variations, but all seem to have at least the two variations for Intros, Endings and Breaks. It would take a lot of programming to create six-chord variations for 800 styles, though, and with some more of the current music, say the last 30 years, it may not be necessary. But, I believe that it gives the styles a more 'musical' feeling. I wonder, though, if you took very similar styles, one where all six variations on the Korg are implemented, and played a song on each keyboard to a group of people, some of whom are keyboard players, some of who play other instruments, and half who don't play any instrument, what they would say was a better overall experience for them. EDITED: You would need to play a song where the various types of chord variations where present, of course. So, major, minor sixth, major sevenths, diminished and augmented to get the full idea, or at least 'most' of the variations being played.
I really hoped Genos2 would improve organ section, but checking out, it seems it's exactly the same as Genos1, including that bad _JS voices on first page. These have the two-speed rotary samples that obviously sounds unreal. Also drawbars sounds are still weak, even compared with my old Roland BK-9. I don't know why they did not include that VCM rotary effect present on YC keyboards as well. Another complaint is the OTS voices used in styles: styles are perfectly orchestrated, but many OTS doesn't fit at all with the style, and also, the voices are always the same, same guitar, same organ (the bad _JS one)...
I would like to see the ability to overwrite AND SAVE the OTS settings for a particular style. This has been an ability on the Korg keyboards for years. I would not want to waste User space on saving OTS set ups when I can simply overwrite the factory settings to give me what *I* prefer.
@@GaryMCurran An ability that new Korg Pa5x lost. On the Pa5x you can't overwrite factory resources like it was possibile on earlier models and, like Yamaha, you have to save the modified style with new OTS in user space.
First - great video and well presented. I just changed from a T5 to Genos 2. The only thing that I think I am going to struggle with is the MPAD move from left to right. Why? I used to play chords and then hit the Wooshes MPAD for some of Bananarama. Now I have to wait for a gap in the melody before I can tap one of the pads with my right hand. I guess it was done for a reason, but it adds to the learning curve. I have a to-do to see if I can perhaps use an Assignable key on the left.
Yeah you can assign multipad 1/4 on 123 assignments buttons on the left. Use freeze button if old registration change parameters there or save in in bannarama song regist
Hi all the best, this is my 1st post ever so not sure if i can ask questions or not, ill ask anyway if you reply great if im out of order im sorry, just getting my 1st keyboard age 60 ive wanted to play for years but my right hand ring finger does not lift up (no tendons) but ive taken the plunge after watching your videos, do you think rock-smith plus is a good beginners course , prse 473 is my new keyboard ty
The Yamaha PSR-E473 is not a bad keyboard for a beginner, although I might have gone for the PSR-EW425. As to Rock Smith Pro, I don't know enough about it. I think I prefer Scott Houston's 'Piano In A Flash' courses. Scott uses 'chord and melody' which fits very well with an arranger keyboard. He starts you out with very simple songs and you learn the basics of chording in your left hand. So, you'll learn what a 'C' chord is, a 'G' chord and an 'F' chord, three notes played at once. As you get further along, you'll learn more and varied types of chords. The E473 will respond to those chords. Then, you'll start out playing single note melodies in the right hand. You'll be playing single note melodies for a bit, and eventually, you'll start playing two note melodies (harmony). Your right ring finger, provided it doesn't 'flop around' shouldn't be an issue. Music should be an adventure, and it should be fun. Scott's program will help you realize both. That's my opinion.
Sorry, I have to disagree regarding the pitch bend/ joystick note. The joystick is extreamly essential for oriantal music. We can't play some articulated music without it, otherwise we will dump that keyboard. So I think YAMAHA aware of this situation so they made it that way
Leigh do you have a video tutorial on Adding entire Play list to Genos2. PLEASE I sent mine back thinking it isn't working. What am I not understanding.?
Sorry for my ignorance, but, won't the available memory stick sockets do the memory trick for the owner's expansion sounds in case the internal memory in full?
I agree about the basic voices like pianos, e.pianos, and organs. They have not been improved to the point of convincing me to trade my G1. The strings are not that much better either, from what I hear on demos. To be fair, I've never played a G2 over my pro audio system, largely because I'm Canadian and I don't believe there any G2s at our local stores yet. I think many of the things Leigh cites as being mediocre are due to the marketing people. Throughout the 70s and 80s, developers always added "wow factors" to their new products. They challenged themselves with every new release to make the next generation 20 times better. They don't do that anymore. Mediocracy is the new norm. If I could upgrade to a G2 for less than $2,000 I'd probably do it. At $4,700 there's no way I'll waste my money! There's not $4,700 worth of differences in the two keyboards.
You are not a fan of FM voices. But by all demos I attended that was one of the selling points to buy a Genos2. I watching this video and the strings quality, I am still in doubt to spend s couple of thousands
For those playing 'true' or 'realistic' 80s sounds, I think having a DX-7 FM Synthesis in the keyboard is great, and I guess there are a lot of people who might use the Genos 2 to play out with and want to play that kind of music. I'm not one of them. I probably would not use it, either. But, there are those who would. My question for Yamaha is 'how many people did you do a blindfold test on of a sampled DX-7 versus the FM synthesis and how did they react? If they overwhelmingly reacted in a positive manner to the DX-7, then yes, it should have been installed. If not, then in my opinion, it's a gimmick, albeit a great sounding gimmick.
The strings could be better, so what I do is try to use the strings that I think sound the best. I don't like that the Genos doesn't have both the pitch band and the mogelator nob. That would be awesome, that way when we're playing the organ on the Yamaha Genos, the rotary or whatever it's called will stay the same, because the mogelator nob is up, because we moved it up, however, you and I both love the genos for its awesome styles. I hope Yamaha will make a Genos 3 before too long, and give us that extra nob, the mogelator, and those perfect strings. Still, for now, because of its killer styles, and the bomb electric guitar sounds, and those souper articulations, and those built in vocals, those that say Shooby do bop, and woah hey, and those that go hmmm, and ah, and others, I gotta tell you that to me, the Genos is by far, the king of the keyboards. The Yamaha motif is great, but the genos takes the cake. The motif had no rhythm styles, but this is the keyboard that I always dreamed of growing up, but I still say it could have 10000 more styles. don't you agree? 10000 or 100000 more? wouldn't that be great?
You talked about storage for the expansions, is there an option to view this storage and wat is free and used? I only found the way to view the 15GB user memory
The workstation Fantom 7 and fantom have also less then 2gb ,so far its enoug, i take expansions that usefully for me. most of instrument we don't use it. and on fantom you can modifid them and store them. genos is a lots different machine then the fantom and also different of use ,but not better or worse then the fantom. in what i saw in video's, you right about this joystick ,fantom have same like that ,and you right about the strings. on what i hear. i dunno the ones in the fantom are better ? ,because you have a fantom also ,i have the 07 . so far am satisfide
Just another thing to add to your list Leigh the vocaliser not been touched since tyros5 I believe and not a professional vocal tool with a poor pa sound it’s a home users karaoke! Yamaha not made a pro users vocal unit since psr8000/9000 the tyros units were poor and boxy which is a shame for us one man band performers who have hoped!! hence not many used in professional performer applications!
I was meaning the vocal unit is a karaoke type unit. There is no reason why Yamaha could not put in a decent vocal unit like they used to especially when you consider its price ! Accompaniment keyboard have always been the main stay of us one man band acts and it’s another disappointing nail in live music/ keyboard performance! If people were being entertained and introduced to Genos in live situations it would give the keyboard some street cred and a potentially new audience than the gradually dwindling tyros users.
Yes I have one also which I use to use .. it’s just convenient when it’s all in one like my pa4x . Tried the 5x too but what a pain ! the new shift vocal unit in that is another disappointment . So I’ve had to stay with the 4x ! Saved me a lot of work but did want to upgrade!
Yes. I prefer the Pitch Bend and Modulation wheels all day.
I can manipulate the expressions easier with my fingers and once I hear the right modulation effect applied, I can keep it there effortlessly just by letting go. Plus, the position of the Mod wheel gives you a physical and visual reference for next time; almost like another slider.
Thank you for these videos and I hope Yamaha is listening.
Greetings from the USA!
Hi Leigh. I also love my Genos 2. I can definitely understand your personal criticisms. But: I am a child of the 70s and 80s, and for me the FM sounds were a purchasing criterion. I don't have any problems with the joystick either. But what surprises me very, very, very much: Neither you nor any other commentator complains about the really cruel and terrible voice switching during OTS or registration changes. For me personally, after six years of Genos, this is the real no go. Anyway: please keep it up! Good work!
For sure! Yamaha get the smooth transition technologique since the Montage 1...so come on, yamaha!!!
At last ! Thank you. I've been trying to find out whether this voice switching problem has,at last, been solved. From your comment it appears not. I call it "the Blast" when it happens. My old Technics kn6500 didn't do it and when I upgraded to the Tyros 5 this was a nasty surprise. I specifically asked the dealer whether this problem had been cured when I upgraded to the Genos and was assured it had -Wrong! I'm a home hobbyist player and it annoys the hell out of me so I wonder how performing musicians put up with it. This is a deal breaker for me, I won't be upgrading to the Genos 2 because of this continuing problem. I can add a Modx to my Genos for £2000 less than the price I have been quoted for the Genos upgrade. That will give me smooth switching and the FMx engine.
I have my Genos2 now for 10 days, updated from Tyros4. Like your videos, they help on getting started in a very useful way!
My Points are (may be I didn’t find the right way?)
- couldn’t set favourite on voices from expansion packs
- open a specific playlist with an an assignable button
- multipads are hard to reach for left hand
- missing a search over all playlists (only possible when using “add record”)
- freeze for the additional button and fader display
- easy way to save a registration/playlist/style with one or two clicks (if overwritten), for now clicking >File-save-save here-done-yes-ok that’s not usable! Just show in the display that a registration is changed and has to be saved by a small friendly red “save” button
Hi Leigh
You are so right about the string sounds. The closet I have got to a string sound that I like, as a lead voice, is a combination of the strings on page four in the legacy section (genos1) together with kino violins. When I studied orchestration I was taught that strings as a lead instrument group should always be tireless to the ear. Sadly with Genos this is not the case, although many of the other non string voices are brilliant.
Yet we are talking about a rather expensive keyboard and I believe it was unacceptable, given the criticism levelled at the string sounds, over the past few years, that Yamaha have not seriously address the issue in Genos 2. Perhaps they will finally address this issue in Genos3! Another excellent video Leigh,
Thank you for your super comment.
I alluded to this in my response to Leigh, but I have to wonder, how many people actually can hear the difference. Here in the U.S., they don't really teach music education in our primary schools any more, and 'Band' is an 'after-school' activity, and not actively included as part of a curriculum. Which is sad, actually. So, I grew up listening to jazz, swing, big band, and The Great American Songbook. Not a lot of strings there. I did listen to The Boston Pops, Arthur Fiedler, and John Williams, but even there, not enough to be able to really hear what you and Leigh were describing. Your comment 'When I studied orchestration . . . ' is very telling, and I'm sure gives you great insight into what strings SHOULD sound like. On the other hand, though, I have to ask you, how many users of Genos 1/2, Korg, Ketron, Roland, etc., really *know* what real strings should sound like. I don't. I know that the U.K. has a better music education system and more local 'citizen bands and orchestras' than the U.S. does, and music is more appreciated there from the point of the musician, but even still, how many people in the U.K. or anywhere else for that matter, listening to Genos 2 strings, have the same reaction that you and Leigh do?
Hi Gary
Thank you for responding to my comments.
The truth is I really learnt what strings were like going to concerts, of the London philharmonic orchestra, the bbc symphony orchestra and others. For me, it’s not only the sound that a wonderful string section makes it is the way you feel it. I expect it is almost impossible to recreate that sound and feeling through the medium of a keyboard, yet although I am not a technician in this field I would expect Yamaha to get closer than they currently do.
I must add that from the age of eight I was a chorister of the Royal School of Church music, here in England and was exposed to a classical music education. Today, as in your country that it is, sadly, rarely the case.
@@RGM543it is unfortunate that so much in the way of education has gone by the wayside. There's a scene from 'Mr. Holland's Opus' with Gertrude trying to get the clarinet down, and he plays the record Mr. Holland puts on The Kingsman's Louie Louie, and he makes the comment that 'they can't sing, they have absolutely no harmonics, and they're playing the same three chords over and over again.' He's absolutely right. Of course, he goes on to say ' . . . and I love it!' Why? Because it's fun.
Well, somewhere along the way, the 'fun' of music got dropped by the wayside. Most bands today can't sing, don't have any harmonics and play the same three chords over and over again, and to me, it's boring. Not to mention that between all the screaming and the amount of distortion, I can't make out a melody anywhere, if there is one there. I haven't been to a concert in years. In fact, the last concert I went to was in 1982, and it was Chet Atkins, a very small and personal concert at the World's Fair in Knoxville, TN. There were maybe 100 of us there to hear him play, and it was awesome. Just him playing, no band, no nothing. A solo act.
So, we seem to be lacking any real musical knowledge. We don't hear what 'real' music sounds like without effects, distortion, overdrive and 'auto-tune' for albums. There are very few musicians from today that I listen to because none of them provide me with anything I want to hear.
But, having said all of that, I don't have your background for classical music and orchestral music in a live setting, nor do I have the education in what to listen for. But, having said that, I started selling keyboards, organs and pianos way back in the 1980s, and I did that for a few years until I moved on to something else. I remember when sample playback first hit, and Yamaha came out with the first of the Clavinovas, and how remarkable it sounded, and how many people where blown away by it. Had a blind gentleman come in and play one, and he flat out told me it 'wasn't a piano sound, but it was good!' Sample technology is still getting better, and maybe one day, someone will come out with a string sample on an arranger keyboard that's good.
As a person who plays both piano/keyboards and guitar, IMO the joystick is much better for guitar voices, especially on electric/distorted guitars. What would truly benefit the Genos owners would be for Yamaha to do what Roland has done on their flagship keyboard and include both a joystick and a set of wheels. You got the wheels for your organs and EP’s, and a joystick for guitars, and synth leads. Even the baby Fantom 0 series has both.
@@Dbentzjr The joystick being spring loaded works better for guitars. I own a Roland F-06. Having both on one keyboard has me questioning why others are not doing it. I wish all of my keyboards and midi controllers had both.
happy new year to you i like your comments very much
Hi Leigh, with you all the way on the...not much-Joystick. My preference would go to the modulation wheels on the Tyros 5 and even the PRS S9000Pro were better than the Genos wiggle stick. But like most things, you'll never please all the people all the time.
Wishing you a G R E A T New Year.
Hi Leigh, once again for a great presentation of what needs to be improved ... I totally agree about the stings section as it seems to be fine for pop music but certainly not for composition such as film scores, classical music repertoire and other professional use in all honesty! I also have the Yamaha Montage 7 76 keys and the strings are not that greater than the Yamaha Genos2 neither. The packs that you's suggesting which are from sound packs are much better than what on this new Genos2 hearing you playing these pack. Question if I may! Do you see a big difference between sound packs Epic Strings 1 and Strings2? Should one by both? which is your opinions please?
Hi. Both packs are very. different and yes both add better strings.
@@LeighWilbraham Thank you kindly
Leigh...I find all of your videos interesting, but most importantly, practical and to the point. Your reviews/comments are truly invaluable. I pre-ordered the Genos2 a few weeks ago with an estimated delivery time of mid-April. While I got what I consider a substantial discount on the price, I'm going to cancel my order, mostly because of your comments about the memory being maxed-out so easily. For the premium price you pay for this keyboard, Yamaha should, by default, give you plenty of room to grow when it comes to internal expansion memory. Providing just 3GB of voice expansion memory is what I consider ignorant for a keyboard in this price range. Several other shortcomings also played a role in my decision to cancel, but thank you for exposing the issues you covered in your excellent video.
Eh? Im confused, when did I point out failings of this instrument, yes the memory is the same, but that's all and honestly speaking I still use the same packs that I always have. I don't recommend anyone installs packs for the sake of but instead, curate what you do have. Im using mine on a daily basis and my empty memory stands at 1.5gb - just don't load all the **** that is out there. It's an instrument for playing and be more selective in what you install. I'd buy this keyboard 10 times over compared to anything else out there at the moment.
@@LeighWilbraham No worries, sir. I’ve taken in your reviews and comments, as well as from others. And yes...I do recognize that you praised the Genos2 much more than you criticized it. I’m canceling my order mainly-but not solely-because under-sizing the expansion memory, for me, is a show-stopper. As you pointed-out, memory is cheap and, for the price of this keyboard, I wouldn’t expect to have to make compromises or feel limited anytime soon after purchasing the Genos2. I know I’d want to add more voices to the Genos2, and I’m not willing to offshore voices anytime soon to be able to play my “voices of the day”. You’ve had the keyboard for only weeks and you’re already engaging in that process. Like you, I’d also be using the Genos2 daily if I had one. If Yamaha provided 8-10GB of expansion memory, I probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Yamaha could have been more practical and generous with the voice expandability of the Genos2 so buyers wouldn’t feel even a hint of obsolescence immediately following plunking down the big bucks it takes to acquire this keyboard, IMHO.
Very good valid points re- strings. I’ve been through the range from Tyros 1-5 & Genos. Still much prefer the strings of the Tyros 4se. A little disappointed also I think are the Choir / vocals. Always lacked behind Roland. Would like to have seen an improvement but sadly not. The G2 is a cracking keyboard that could be even better. Just my thoughts. Happy New Year to all in the Genos Club.
Hi Nigel. Agree with all your comments.
Happy New Year to you and your wife.
Hi Leigh, as a Genos 1 player I like to suggest to you all - a little bit like RGM543 - for much better string sounds: 1) try to combine different sounds next to each other in "Right-1" and "Right-2" perhaps like you put "Seattle1stViolins" at volume 50 with "Symphonic" from the legacy folder page 4 at volume 80 together -- try different loudness levels to your liking and 2) try to adjust the sounds over "Menu" - and "VoiceEdit" - here for example try to play with the "Cutoff" filter and above all with the "Attack-" and "Release" levels -- belief me: you will find the right kind of strings that you´ve missed when playing the sounds solo and and not adjusted ....I know: there is much "soundworking" to do but feel free to try --many regards from Solingen/Germany
@@jurgenkoppe268 sadly no combination of sounds can make a better sound than this expansion pack soundpacks.co.uk/products/epic-strings-for-yamaha-s-series-tyros-and-genos
@@LeighWilbraham ...sadly your answer can´t convince me really - cause my impression is, that you can´t really try to mix and adjust all the genos strings sounds from the legacy and the original string soundbank - this is really!!!!!!! timeconsuming work - I just started with these work in these days and perhaps I still need weeks to come to an end .... the youtube soundsamples from the epic-strings soundpack 1 are only to around 50% in my taste - but at least perhaps all is a matter of taste - for me some of these sounds are a bit too soft and sweat with too much flair of the 50s or 60s .....this is not my music
@@jurgenkoppe268 well we can’t please everyone. But I do find people who say this is not for me eventually end up buying one.
Improve r1,r2,r3 when selecting new voice that the Octave stays the same, left stays the same
Honestly the only thing I don’t like about Genos2, is that here in Western Australia, I have to wait until March before mine is delivered. I’m watching your videos and dreaming of the day.
I agree with your criticism regarding strings. I hope Yamaha will resolve it soon. 🤨
Dear Leigh, thanks for another informative and interesting video. I have the Genos for several years already, and I enjoy every minute of it. I like the sounds, and the stick at the left side doesn't bother me so much.
I would have purchased Genos 2 if it overcame some of the problems I have to deal with in Genos (and that I had to deal with my Tyros4 as well).
One of these issues is the control over individual Multipads.
The problem ocures with continuous Multipad playing, although you disable it in next registration. I usually dealt with it by limiting the playing time of the specific Multipad, but I don't understand why we have to deal with this problem with Genos2 as well.
Another big problem is the Choking sound between transitions of different sounds with different effects, when you change to next registration. This problem of bad transition is so dramatic, especially when you want to play or record a whole song with transitions with different effects of different voices, when you change to next registration.
I record a lot of the music I play, but in many cases, I have to record separate parts (eather by recording in the keyboard itself, or by using a DAW software in order to combine them), in order to avoid that terrible choaking sound, and to show a smooth flow of the song.
Will you please refer to those issues in your videos as well?
Thanks again for the informative and interesting reviews.
Dear Leigh, Someone in your name was in contact with me on Telegram yesterday, and I wonder if it was indeed you, or was it a fake account. So I stopped the conversation, as I was not sure it was you. Was it indeed you?
Hello Leigh. I hope this finds you well today.
Joystick versus Wheels. Personal preference. Since I do not play a lot of 'synth' music or instruments where I think I need modulation, the joystick on the Korg works for me, just fine. However, if you like wheels, that's great. Yamaha could easily solve that problem by offering 'modules.' Literally, a plug-in module that you can remove and replace with another module. Four screws and a connector, and you have the pitch and modulation device of choice. It really would not be that hard to do, and they could even include both modules in the package.,
Rotary sounds. I have never been impressed with the Leslie simulation on any Yamaha product. Again, not bashing or Brand Superiority, but I do like the Leslie emulation on the Korg. You can hear them spin up and slow down, and even as far back as my PA800, I have the ability to edit the simulation. I wish Yamaha would incorporate that.
Strings. You've got me here. I do not listen to strings enough to hear how 'bad' they are to you. It may be a fact that my hearing is going, or that I just don't have the experience listening to real strings. For me, for the uses I would have for them, they seem fine. Sure, the older ones you showed us seemed, to me, marginally better, but I don't see the complaint. Again, that's on ME and my lack of knowledge. BUT, in saying that, I have to wonder how many other people don't hear the things that you do and also wonder what you're talking about.
Your comment about Memory is something I agree with. You may very well be correct that the OS limits the expansion to 3 GB or something, and you're correct that in this day and age, it should be more. I wouldn't stop at 8 GB, though. I can get 32 GB of Crucial memory for $80USD. If they had externally accessible sockets for DDR4 or DDR5 memory sockets, you could easily install 64GB of RAM, and that's what it should be. The PA5X will support up to 1TB of memory via an SD card, although to be honest, I'm not sure if you can put sound and style packs on that, so that may not be a good comparison. Apparently, you can also access information, such as styles, directly from the Drives (of which the 1TB SD card, if installed, would be one choice). So Yamaha should have something like that which gives you more storage space.
I did get a chuckle out of the comment about the moron who tries to hack popular YT users and 'Text Me on xxxx' and expect you to respond. It's sad that there are people out there doing that. I get that on most of the popular channels I subscribe to, so of course, they all get blocked. It's annoying, but you know, I never thought people would actually contact YOU because of it, I thought they were smart enough to know spam when they see it.
The final thing that I mentioned previously, would the ability to select between either 'Catch' or 'Jump' for the sliders, and be able to set it the way you want it to be, and even with enough granularity to be able to set it for each style.
Finally, I don't really drink, so between 10 p.m. and midnight, I'll be praying in the new year.
Have you ever tried putting string sounds together, such as kino strings warm, and the legacy voice that's simply callled "strings"? I heeard that once in another RUclips video and it sounded absolutely great, to my ears anyway.
Brilliant comment at 18:19, Leigh. I agree. Yamaha has a very good synth division. They could easily put some of those great sounds from the Montage series into the G2 but the marketing people are so terrified of shooting themselves in the foot. Instead, they choose to use their older voices that sound flat compared to Montage voices. That simply adds up to $4,700 they won't get from me. Do they care? No.
Maybe Yamaha should consider equipping Genos with the sound engine and voice editing capability of MoXF... Better sound quality and no risk of ruining the marketing of Montage.
@@JBF-GST-Tanda 👍👍! I would buy that in a heartbeat. Also, the Genos interface and editing software is very convoluted and unconventional. For example, they use *Copy here* instead of *Paste.* They need to stop using their own twisted terminology and stick with what people are used to - not that I'm a big MS fan. They too suck in a lot of ways!
You don't prefer this joystick because you are a musician, but those who sing at events in Eastern Europe (Balkans) or the Orient use this joystick a lot, which was a very good idea of the Yamaha management !
In many ways, I feel that Genos is being held back by backwards compatibility issues. For example, more than one fill choice would do wonders for boosting authenticity. Also, I’d love to see the split and layering options completely overhauled so you could set up on each voice as you wish. However, I suspect both these options haven’t seen the light of day in pursuit of backwards compatibility. Also, while improved again in the 2, it’s true to say that the acoustic and electric pianos sound nowhere near as authentic and full as those in Yamaha’s digital piano range. If Korg can crack this with the PA5X, there’s surely no reason Yamaha couldn’t do the same. As you inferred in the video, I suspect that the problem may have at its heart different product teams acting as if they are in competition rather than working for the same company.
Love your comment and agree with you. I feel the fear of upsetting backwards compatibility. I don’t understand why anyone would buy a new keyboard only to make it sound like their old one. It’s absolutely mind blowing someone would do that. Every keyboard I’ve owned has been a clean slate.
I bought (on my Sweetwater card) a Montage M8x when it first came out. All i can say is it is/was the best synth I've had. If you but a Montage do get the M8x As it has a third sound generator versus the two in the smaller versions. The only problem is/was I'm poor, living on pension. A month or so after getting the Montage the Genos 2 came out. I lusted for it more than the Montage so I traded in the Montage for the Genos. If I could afford it I would have both.
Leigh, I have a group of sounds I would like you to evaluate particularly the strings seeing that you are talking about them here, my hearing is not the best to pick out the finer points
I love the joystick! if you want better strings get the montage. the mic and the mixing levels on this board are the best I've ever heard
First of all, I LOVE the GENOS2. About the joystick, for me it works better than the wheel with guitar solo's. I do understand that you miss a mod-wheel on his own. Could be a a good addition. Strings, a matter of taste i guess. If the stings from the legacy are usefull then i don't need really new strings. What i really don't understand is, ok cool that we can get the packs that already where available, but why not build it in the the basis keyboard. Now we lose half the amount of flash memory on 'old' stuff. I did it of course, we can use the styles. Also what i don't like is, every pack has its own new samples. But the way these sounds are stored is so pure random. There are so many accordion samples in multiple packs... (also strings, maybe you can find some usefull sounds there). But you have to search trough all the packs to find the sounds. That could be done much better. Further what i do not like is that everything has way to much reverb, i will definately need to adjust that every time. Also with the OTS is the volume of L R1,R2,R3 not in balance with the style, often way to loud. Maybe it has something to do with syle dynamics. However it needs some adjustments. My wish, is after 15 years of development, why can we only layer 3 voices...? Why not a system like in Montage where you can layer 16 voices, but 6 woud be great also. Still love this instrument! it's Great!
I hope Yamaha creates some great new expansion packs with leads and synths sounds. I agree, a lot of sounds are from the 80s. I purchased already multiple sound packs from third parties what should be included in the Genos2
Ive owned a PSRSX900 for three years. Before that I owned a PSRS900. Thank you 😊. The first bugbear (joystick rather than proper pitch/mod wheels) is the main thing for me on my PSRSX900. An atrocious design flaw.
Thanks for sharing
I think I have watched all Leigh’s videos on Genos2 and agree this does seem to be so far above sound wise over my Genos. Leigh said he didnt like the sliders, I find them really useful for setting volumes etc, he didn’t say why, maybe he could let us into why he dislikes them. Oh by the way I much prefer the joystick to the wheels.
It’s the latch on the new sliders that drives me mad. 😠
Hi Leigh, i agree with everything. Having had tyros5 and genos 1 this is not wath i had expexded. In fact its a genos1. The organ is terreble, why not a software hammond b3 like in the yamaha yc73 stage. It can be fi xed by an upgrade.
Believe me in sound department, even those professionals live players have admitted that single sounds of Genos 1, Genos 2 and even Tyros 5, not even layered !!... in most cases have excellent quality in every aspects you imagine... be it windy instruments or orchestral epic sounds or all nylon guitar or E. Guitar and many many more sound category....
beside Sound adjustment on the Arrangers, in YEM computer program ( Yamaha expansion manager) you can layer up to 8 sounds, you can create astonishing sound adjustement or as whole, creating very high quality sound similar to flagship synthesizers with LFO and all... almost every thing that current pro Synths are cable of , you can do it with this Arrangers
But as I said, the sounds and samples are extremely high quality that you don't need to do any thing... In these arrangers
Hi Leigh. I do agree with you on the joystick and the poor strings section. In addition, why oh why did Yamaha not include that wonderful Bosendorfer Piano which is found in the new Clavinova. Also....Yamaha.....where are the 16 pads? There's space for them (like the Pa5X)
The 16 pads on the Korg are something that were useless. Doesn't need 16 pads - it's more of a synth thing - not an arranger. Find time to sit hitting pads and playing - can't be done.
I don't have either, although the PA5X is the next keyboard I want to own. In looking at the Pads on that, I don't see any particular use for them for the kind of music I play (The Great American Songbook). I agree with Leigh that they are more of a 'synth' thing. I hope that Korg comes out with an update to give them added functionality for things which are useful to musicians, and not 'DJs.'
Furthermore, if Korg allowed you to load your own samples (which I don't see in the manual) I think that would be super useful.
@@GaryMCurran you can load your own samples but the system needs a rocket scientist to get your head around it. Korg have the mean to make a good competitor if they got rid of the car crash that is their user interface. It’s worse than a Ketron and that’s saying something.
@@LeighWilbraham you have commented on this before, and I agree that from what I've seen, the Genos is supremely easy to navigate. As to User Samples for the Matrix, there is a User tab which I didn't notice, so I guess you can load one-shot or looped samples. It also gives you the ability to instantly mute parts, if you have that screen/function loaded, but I still say that, at least for me, it's a waste, I'd never use it in its current configuration.
Question (not related though): has the organ Leslie effect been improved? (going from fast to slow and viceversa gradually?)
17:00 Exactly👍
If ever there's criticising posted, it has to be constructive.
I think they have go for open sampling system and capability of changing sound without any cut of DSP or oscillator like korg kronos , now you can not edit or even create super articulation voices , not even a slight change in layers or multisamples , everything is locked , even overwriting on original voice and styles and renaming categories should be considered, these thing is the same from Tyros 2 till Genos 2 , unfortunately Yamaha is not Customizable and Korg is too Complicated and we don’t have a third choice.
I have been waiting from tyros 2 for a customizable arranger keyboard from Yamaha
Thanks for a super comment.
Problem I have is using Playlists and or Downloaded mp3/midi songs. I have no problem loading either, however when I go from using the mp3/midi songs downloaded on usb to the free Playlist songs on the other usb then it keeps giving me 'file not found' error. However, after turning machine off and on again the Playlist songs are working again. I hope that makes sense, otherwise so far i'm loving the Genos2. The Strings problem doesn't annoy me too much, as a 73 year old with a bit of hearing loss and not a great ear , it still sounds fine. That Wheel thing never gets used anyway but I agree not the best. And thank you for all do on these videos!
Maybe this is a bug - I shall dig deeper and see if I can make this happen.
Hi Leigh happy new year I have just bought 2 new keyboard from your friend in bolton which you recommended big thanks.the genos 2 & the Ketron event I never owned the genos 1 before but watching your videos on Facebook has helped me a lot understand these keyboards I agreed with everything you said about the Yamaha genos 2 .i also have the korg px 4 & the px 5 arranger keyboards which I love playing.but am most impressed with the the Ketron event can you please send me the the link for the Ketron event pro from Ajam can’t find it anywhere? Big thank thanks from me hope you and family have a great new year.Colin from bury.
If you google Ketron America they sell the software. You’ll also find Ketron America on Facebook. Congratulations.
I think the pitch stick is a better idea than wheels . I find it much more expressive than wheels . I would struggle to go back to wheels after years of not playing arrangers . From what I can see - I can’t hear any kind of seamless voice switching when OTS is applied . I’ve got that function on my keyboards and it would literally drive me insane to have an audible cut off between OTS selections .
Another feature I’d like see added is polyphonic after touch or some mpe functionality in the Keybed for solo orchestral sounds and synth sounds .
As for user sounds memory is always important so in agreement with you there
Many of the features you mention are more synth related where you’re not playing a melody and therefore can use the aftertouch on things like pads - playing melody on a arranger leaves no time to play voices that use the aftertouch.
I can’t say I agree with you there , I used to use aftertouch a lot on my previous Tyros but you have to use it within a certain time frame for sure . It’s a lovely sounding keyboard though
@@alexmcallister492 I’ve come to realise that there’s a brick wall between synths and arrangers and the two are played completely differently and have their own market.
Hi Leigh, first thank you for your content, actually I'm totally agree with you and in my opinion strings is since ever is the worse through all their keyboard products from this category, but the BIG question for YAMAHA why they didn't include the legato/portamento engine they kept in PSR A5000 ?? that's the weird mentality of YAMAHA's people. Also many things needed to be improved in the arranger section specially the style creator like : Why I'm limited to 1 bar for the fills and break? and why there is no variation related to the chords like it's in the KORG arrangers? actually simple things is there since very long time, it doesn't need quantum physics to do it...😂
I have the same questions about chord variations, also. Not all Korg styles have all six chord variations, but all seem to have at least the two variations for Intros, Endings and Breaks. It would take a lot of programming to create six-chord variations for 800 styles, though, and with some more of the current music, say the last 30 years, it may not be necessary. But, I believe that it gives the styles a more 'musical' feeling. I wonder, though, if you took very similar styles, one where all six variations on the Korg are implemented, and played a song on each keyboard to a group of people, some of whom are keyboard players, some of who play other instruments, and half who don't play any instrument, what they would say was a better overall experience for them.
EDITED: You would need to play a song where the various types of chord variations where present, of course. So, major, minor sixth, major sevenths, diminished and augmented to get the full idea, or at least 'most' of the variations being played.
When rotary used from slow to fast the transition is to abrupt, not smooth it should sould be small fade in time
Can the rotary effect be custom tailored for acceleration/deceleration and fast or slow final speed? Depth etc?
I really hoped Genos2 would improve organ section, but checking out, it seems it's exactly the same as Genos1, including that bad _JS voices on first page. These have the two-speed rotary samples that obviously sounds unreal. Also drawbars sounds are still weak, even compared with my old Roland BK-9. I don't know why they did not include that VCM rotary effect present on YC keyboards as well.
Another complaint is the OTS voices used in styles: styles are perfectly orchestrated, but many OTS doesn't fit at all with the style, and also, the voices are always the same, same guitar, same organ (the bad _JS one)...
I would like to see the ability to overwrite AND SAVE the OTS settings for a particular style. This has been an ability on the Korg keyboards for years. I would not want to waste User space on saving OTS set ups when I can simply overwrite the factory settings to give me what *I* prefer.
@@GaryMCurran An ability that new Korg Pa5x lost. On the Pa5x you can't overwrite factory resources like it was possibile on earlier models and, like Yamaha, you have to save the modified style with new OTS in user space.
@@DavideMoretti Really? That's garbage! I can't believe Korg took that ability away. Thank you for that knowledge.
First - great video and well presented.
I just changed from a T5 to Genos 2. The only thing that I think I am going to struggle with is the MPAD move from left to right. Why? I used to play chords and then hit the Wooshes MPAD for some of Bananarama. Now I have to wait for a gap in the melody before I can tap one of the pads with my right hand. I guess it was done for a reason, but it adds to the learning curve. I have a to-do to see if I can perhaps use an Assignable key on the left.
Yeah you can assign multipad 1/4 on 123 assignments buttons on the left. Use freeze button if old registration change parameters there or save in in bannarama song regist
Thank you for the information - still finding my way around. @@LuisJacob366
Allegro was on the PSR3000
Hi all the best, this is my 1st post ever so not sure if i can ask questions or not, ill ask anyway if you reply great if im out of order im sorry, just getting my 1st keyboard age 60 ive wanted to play for years but my right hand ring finger does not lift up (no tendons) but ive taken the plunge after watching your videos, do you think rock-smith plus is a good beginners course , prse 473 is my new keyboard ty
The Yamaha PSR-E473 is not a bad keyboard for a beginner, although I might have gone for the PSR-EW425. As to Rock Smith Pro, I don't know enough about it. I think I prefer Scott Houston's 'Piano In A Flash' courses. Scott uses 'chord and melody' which fits very well with an arranger keyboard. He starts you out with very simple songs and you learn the basics of chording in your left hand. So, you'll learn what a 'C' chord is, a 'G' chord and an 'F' chord, three notes played at once. As you get further along, you'll learn more and varied types of chords. The E473 will respond to those chords. Then, you'll start out playing single note melodies in the right hand. You'll be playing single note melodies for a bit, and eventually, you'll start playing two note melodies (harmony). Your right ring finger, provided it doesn't 'flop around' shouldn't be an issue.
Music should be an adventure, and it should be fun. Scott's program will help you realize both. That's my opinion.
@@GaryMCurran ty for the reply ill try the course all the best and happy new year
Hi love your videos but a point of interest can sounds be loaded from a usb stick rather than user memory i dont know but just a passing thought
Sorry, I have to disagree regarding the pitch bend/ joystick note. The joystick is extreamly essential for oriantal music. We can't play some articulated music without it, otherwise we will dump that keyboard. So I think YAMAHA aware of this situation so they made it that way
Leigh do you have a video tutorial on Adding entire Play list to Genos2. PLEASE I sent mine back thinking it isn't working. What am I not understanding.?
Hi Pat. I have a full playlist tutorial at www.patreon.com/genosclub
I find the clicking sound of the buttons annoying during a live performance
@@votantonio move your head further away from the panel and you won’t hear it.
Sorry for my ignorance, but, won't the available memory stick sockets do the memory trick for the owner's expansion sounds in case the internal memory in full?
No. Completely different.
I got a Genos 2 ordered. I found 36 expansion packs from Yamaha for free i hope they work ok. So whats the question about pack availability and price.
Not all packs work with genos 2. When you register it you can download the packs that have been converted
I agree about the basic voices like pianos, e.pianos, and organs. They have not been improved to the point of convincing me to trade my G1. The strings are not that much better either, from what I hear on demos. To be fair, I've never played a G2 over my pro audio system, largely because I'm Canadian and I don't believe there any G2s at our local stores yet.
I think many of the things Leigh cites as being mediocre are due to the marketing people. Throughout the 70s and 80s, developers always added "wow factors" to their new products. They challenged themselves with every new release to make the next generation 20 times better. They don't do that anymore. Mediocracy is the new norm. If I could upgrade to a G2 for less than $2,000 I'd probably do it. At $4,700 there's no way I'll waste my money! There's not $4,700 worth of differences in the two keyboards.
You are not a fan of FM voices. But by all demos I attended that was one of the selling points to buy a Genos2. I watching this video and the strings quality, I am still in doubt to spend s couple of thousands
For those playing 'true' or 'realistic' 80s sounds, I think having a DX-7 FM Synthesis in the keyboard is great, and I guess there are a lot of people who might use the Genos 2 to play out with and want to play that kind of music. I'm not one of them. I probably would not use it, either. But, there are those who would. My question for Yamaha is 'how many people did you do a blindfold test on of a sampled DX-7 versus the FM synthesis and how did they react? If they overwhelmingly reacted in a positive manner to the DX-7, then yes, it should have been installed. If not, then in my opinion, it's a gimmick, albeit a great sounding gimmick.
The strings could be better, so what I do is try to use the strings that I think sound the best. I don't like that the Genos doesn't have both the pitch band and the mogelator nob. That would be awesome, that way when we're playing the organ on the Yamaha Genos, the rotary or whatever it's called will stay the same, because the mogelator nob is up, because we moved it up, however, you and I both love the genos for its awesome styles. I hope Yamaha will make a Genos 3 before too long, and give us that extra nob, the mogelator, and those perfect strings. Still, for now, because of its killer styles, and the bomb electric guitar sounds, and those souper articulations, and those built in vocals, those that say Shooby do bop, and woah hey, and those that go hmmm, and ah, and others, I gotta tell you that to me, the Genos is by far, the king of the keyboards. The Yamaha motif is great, but the genos takes the cake. The motif had no rhythm styles, but this is the keyboard that I always dreamed of growing up, but I still say it could have 10000 more styles. don't you agree? 10000 or 100000 more? wouldn't that be great?
You talked about storage for the expansions, is there an option to view this storage and wat is free and used? I only found the way to view the 15GB user memory
It’s shown in expansion manager software.
The workstation Fantom 7 and fantom have also less then 2gb ,so far its enoug, i take expansions that usefully for me. most of instrument we don't use it. and on fantom you can modifid them and store them. genos is a lots different machine then the fantom and also different of use ,but not better or worse then the fantom. in what i saw in video's, you right about this joystick ,fantom have same like that ,and you right about the strings. on what i hear. i dunno the ones in the fantom are better ? ,because you have a fantom also ,i have the 07 . so far am satisfide
How can i have that word :)
I think Expansion Capabilities should be moved to the usb. I never use internal storage if I can avoid it.
I'm surprised it don't use a touch pad instead of that joystick thing
Native instruments tried that on their keyboard. It was horrendous. They went back to wheels.
@@LeighWilbraham really? I would think that would work good. Speaking of touch have you used the seaboard?
maybe they expand the memory like genos1
Leigh the SX900 has 4gb storage the genos 1 should have had 8 and the genos 2 should be 16 not 3 1gb less than the genos 1 predecessor.
Sx900 has 1GB of expansion memory not 4.
Just another thing to add to your list Leigh the vocaliser not been touched since tyros5 I believe and not a professional vocal tool with a poor pa sound it’s a home users karaoke! Yamaha not made a pro users vocal unit since psr8000/9000 the tyros units were poor and boxy which is a shame for us one man band performers who have hoped!! hence not many used in professional performer applications!
To be fair its a keyboard not a karaoke machine
I was meaning the vocal unit is a karaoke type unit. There is no reason why Yamaha could not put in a decent vocal unit like they used to especially when you consider its price ! Accompaniment keyboard have always been the main stay of us one man band acts and it’s another disappointing nail in live music/ keyboard performance! If people were being entertained and introduced to Genos in live situations it would give the keyboard some street cred and a potentially new audience than the gradually dwindling tyros users.
@@kenColtas-pg7nr what’s wrong with a external vocal harmoniser - most pros use TC Helicon units
Yes I have one also which I use to use .. it’s just convenient when it’s all in one like my pa4x . Tried the 5x too but what a pain ! the new shift vocal unit in that is another disappointment . So I’ve had to stay with the 4x ! Saved me a lot of work but did want to upgrade!
Wonder if the pitch bend wheels could be retro fitted to the genos 2 from the one. Maybe the same base?
Hi Leigh ,can you reach out to martin harris,im sure he has some input into the concerns that you have !