Why did Russia say it doesn't make sense for it to buy T-14 tanks?
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- This video explains the nuances of Russian official’s statements concerning the production of the future T-14 tank. It puts the whole issue of T-14’s production in proper context, drawing a comparison with US Abrams production news. And explore the issue of tank usage on future battlefields.
00:00 Intro to topic
01:06 Production history
06:22 War scuttled plans
07:53 What now?
Link to our Abrams video:
• M1A3 Abrams is finally...
Music by Matija Malatestinic www.malatestinic.com
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friendship ended with T-14 armata.
turtle tank is new best tank now.
🐢
Tortil 😁👍🐢
Back to the roots, Mother Nature's first tank.
Yeaaa
YAY TUTEL ENJOYER 🐢
A few years ago one of our senior military officials said that our stuff is obsolete because if the Chinese really wanted to, they could just swarm us with drones by the thousands.
I think the Russians are learning that throwing your best tanks into a place where a cheap drone can take them out is not the best move.
We have witnessed a shift in how wars are fought. Its crazy to think that armored soldiers were on the battlefield for thousands of years, even after gunpowder and the tank would be the ultimate version of that armor, but its barely lasted 100 years as an effective tool.
There is no alternative to tanks as an mobile fire support plantform. Aardvark wipe out 80% of iraqs armor and tanks were never said to be obsolete then.
Russia lacks the advanced EW system due to advance chips and semi cinducters sanctions to cover all their armor.
Every measure has a countermeasure. Things will remain largely the same. Tanks, aircraft, ships have all been considered obsolete and yet here we are. All have counter measures, and so measures to counter the countermeasures and so on.
@@Tonius126 wrong, they have their own semiconductor industry and make some of the most advanced systems in the world with indigenously produced components, nice try at coping though 😂
lol no. cheap and light drones are blind and weak drones. they're only prevalent because the frontlines are barely moving, and the frontlines are barely moving because neither side has a way to effectively bypass the world war 1 artillery contest. this is because the russian air force is limited to lobbing glide bombs at stationary targets from the safety of friendly airspace, and the ukrainian air force barely exists. this is not a problem faced by the US air force, which proved even thirty years ago that it could do much more than that.
@@tomvlodek6377 the country whose air force got caught upgrading their navigation to use basic civilian GPS lmao
The Turtle Tank is the future of tanks.
It’s for fpvs there’s vids of some taking 3 hits and kept going also they did a reconnaissance in force to find Ukraine positions in the vid it kept going and u see a grenade launcher being shot at it it did nothing it kept going and there was 1 with mine clearing equipment and it got tracked the Russians got it and repaired it.
There all different some look bad ass with chains and fat ammo boxes and so on. The vid is nasty the Ukraines kept trying to hit em and it kept going large scale combined arms positional warfare in Europe and its 30% modern footholds strongholds defensive belts military fortifications all types of trenches dougouts fox holes high ground low ground Russia hits concentration of forces and temporary positions in the front and rear all the time Ukraine only gets lil pricks Yk Ukraine doesn’t have fabs aviation bombs they don’t even have military kamikaze drones with war heads just military reconnaissance drones all regular drones fpvs drones boats and so on.
They Germans fought harder in ww2 they had the weaponry Ukraine doesn’t they got what they got and get what they get.☠️
@@kxng_k0Ng_ you love putin
While i appreciate your support of russia, you are wrong about the level of tech that is available to the Ukrainians @@kxng_k0Ng_
Retooling factories currently producing T90's probably just isn't worth it.
Is it a T-90 if it doesn't have night vision and thermal sights bought from western companies? Isn't it just a T-72 at that point?
@@shuathe2nd Russia produces its' own night vision both for tanks and infantry, Russians are second only to the US in night vision technology, and the US has explicitly banned selling any US night vision to foreign states.
@@shuathe2nd look nafo bot will you stop lying? Its getting old
@@gobomanaga5615 Do you know the difference between image intensifier and thermal imager? Modern AFVs don't even have image intensifiers anymore, they run thermals only. Russia still can not mass produce thermal imagers, even the ones reverse engineered from western ones.
@@alexnderrrthewoke4479 truth hurt snowflake? russia is taking a battering, and putin is turning it into north korea - if you like that then good for you, but clearly you don't like russian people if you want that fate for them.
it would be funny if the T-14 ends up being changed substantially and then like the ak-12, the only place the original design exists is in a Battlefield game
Welcome to the new soviet union...Been watching a lot of"paper skies" chanel recently and a common soviet theme is if it doesn't work, fake test results or push it into serial production and fix it with hundreds of upgrades. Or arrest everyone involved in the project for treason. That's what happens when a government sets unreasonable goals and expects delivery on a certain day no matter what
I think that is likely going to be the case, tbh.
@@Mwwwwwwwwe So, running a nation like a tech company?
Nah, they would probably just put a tool shed on top of the tank, and call it a day.
Can't wait in WarT hunder with magic no spall armor and no exploded ammo (spall liner isn't bad enough)
Retooling the UVZ factory for full-scale T-14 production would mean stopping it for a year or more. This is unacceptable during wartime. The Armed Forces need continuous inflow of new/modernised/reactivated tanks to compensate for losses and to equip new units, which means that production of currently ready model (i.e. T-90M) must be ramped up.
Meanwhile, the design of object 148 can be updated or possibly reworked, accounting for the experience gained during the combat operations of the current war.
They literally had nearly a decade to completely overhaul UVZ for the production of T-14s, without ANY war, and STILL haven't set up production. It's a dead end.
Jeez the amount of bots in this comment section is insane
Weird, I only saw bots from one side, and it's probably not the one you're referring to.
That's why I don't really read comment any more.
Well, afterall, the nature of the internet - it has also bring all those conflicts in reality to zero distance. There's no Eden in the present day internet anymore, tainted by the nature of mankind.
Ahh yes, don't mind my weird talk. It's just everything has been a bit too depressing....
@@aurex8937 what side do you think I’m referring to?
Beep boop beep
If Ukraine is the problem, then T14 is NOT the answer. Think this war will change a lot of views on what defines good equipment in a real war.
вот верный взгляд, и сейчас рулят Цари-Мангалы
@@user-kc9nf5yq8naudible fart noise .
If one believes that wars between major countries will be fought with either almost no airforce and fleet or with incapable ones and Artillery-shelling as method of advancement then... well maybe...
@@greenling.True, but ubiquitous drone surveillance and attacks have definitely changed how the game has to be played. Any major tactical level mistakes can be detected and taken advantage of so much more easily, for example, at least without good deception and EW plans.
This war will change a lot of views on what defines good equipment FOR this type of war.
You're suggesting every new battle field will be another ukraine, lowlands interspersed with urban centres and a single branching highway. Or the fact that tanks will even be used in their current roles for future war.
Turtle tank > t14
Its really simple. 10 Million dollars tanks get blown up same as 1 Million dollars tanks with drones and land mines. There is no point in making 10 Mill dollars tank when u can get 10 others easier and faster for same price.
I think that is a very one dimensional way to think of equipment design. The cheaper tank may be a cheaper loss, but it will inevitably be lost at a higher rate. Secondly, a cheaper tank would not be able perform well under ideal conditions, as in a cheap tank that breaks through a defensive line wouldn’t be able to take as much ground as a high quality tank if it broke through defensive lines.
Sounds like a classically Russian approach, quantity > quality, which can be useful at time, as it was vs the Germans in WW2
For the same reason the US hasn't bought half the weapons systems its developed over the decades. The new stuff usually doesn't do anything the old one can't do for less money and in the mean time some of the stuff on the new one gets put on the old one as upgrades. In the case of a tank a hull doesn't go obsolete, its just a hull. Put a new turret on it or an upgraded turret on and its technically a brand new tank. Just looks at the turkish M60's.
Katılıyorum. Günümüzde tank fiyatları uçmuş durumda. (3×Tank = 1×F16) Bu resmen çılgınlık. En iyisi eldeki tankları modernize etmek.
@@SiyasiMunafucksavar Not really. Tank prices have gotten pretty cheap relative to aircraft costs.
Especially the Abrams considering how old/mature the design is.
They play on this alot considering how NATO switched from expensive MBT's to faster/cheaper LAVs and Strykers.
@@honkhonk8009 plus the us is only building new M1 tanks at the lowest number to keep the factory and staff in support.
had the US sensed a war soon and gov been United on that US could easily ramp upp production and lower the cost of per tank.
would the cost per year be more or less or equal I dont remember.
A good weapon need to be cost effective. If the cost of one latest tank = 10 older tanks. It is difficult to replace the losses in the battle field.
Cheap drones are so OP it makes sense just to spam buy them and artillery
Because a T90M reinforced with a turtle shell paired with an RC drone easily beats T14, and costs a lot less.
The turtle shells were a stopgap measure which doesn't work against artillery they were only good During the period that Republicans denied Ukraine artillery shells.
I agree. Cost per loss makes ground war prohibitive for tanks. Any infantry soldier can carry a shoulder mounted missile that will destroy any tank. Those missiles cost far less than tanks, and any vehicle can carry several of those missiles. Tanks are slow and consume huge quantities of fuel making supply chains more difficult to fulfill. Tanks are huge, easy targets making their crews sitting ducks. Mine fields are effective in preventing the movement of tanks. Missiles will continue to get cheaper and better where tanks have reached their performative threshold. Baring the ability to make tanks fly and use nuclear fuel, tanks are a dead end. Robot tanks won't cost crews, but they will still be susceptible to mines and missiles and aircraft, and they will be expensive for the foreseeable future. Robot tanks will have vulnerabilities because they won't have environmental awareness that a present human will have. When a mag-mine attaches to the bottom of the robot tank, it won't hesitate to bring that mine with it to the refueling depot or the remote operator's location.
Why buy T-14 when you can buy more Blyatmobile?🤣
True
T14 was only ever a parade tank. Tested in Syria and no one saw it. Sounds like another joke
just like your Overhyped Challegner2 that got its Turret Tossed in Robotyne by a single Krasnopol hit
@messier8379 and afraid to appear in the frontline again ever since
The comment section here: All wars are fought exactly the same and so the only tank that is any good is XYZ. I know this because I''m a youtube commentor.
Objectivity and nuance? No no no.
Outrage and negativity? Yes please.
exactly lol
Long story short, turning T72 to become a mobile shed gave better and more reliable (and MUCH cheaper) protection against drones and artillery compared to any "Active Protection System" available in existence.
Really? They go pop just like all the others...
The tutel does not go pop, it just burn like leopard and abrams do.
Its funny considering making a tank to a mobile shed increase its survivability.
@@comradeblin256when even buildings are running awey from russia
Available in Russia, not "existence." You have no clue what type of classified systems the US and/or allies may be working on right now.
@@LunaticTheCat and you have no idea what they are working on either
Because almost every tank since the T-72...has been a T-72 with DLC.
But the t-80 exists?
@@DollyRanchoveral design principle is the same with t-80, there are major differences with autolader and engine but overall it’s t-72 on steroids.
@@zlamas997 the hull is also different
T-90 is an upgrade of T-72, T-80 is an upgrade of T-64, while T-72 is an upgrade of T-64
@@vp5209 T-72 is in many ways worse than modernized T-64. Get your facts straight. Reason why all countries are modifying T-72 is that because it sucks.
Drones changed warfare. What's the point of making a super expensive tank when a Drone can destroy it in one shot?
The t14 relied on Western components. Sanctions ended that.
The same thing applies to the Moscow. That flagship had a hundred million dollars worth of western electronics in it.
There would have been more, however the sanctions from the 2014 Crimean Invasion blocked purchases during the 2019 refit.
Сколько вы ребята будите еще смешить со своими промытыми мозгами. Ваша пропаганда делает же вам плохо . В Т-14 нет и не было ни одного западного комплектующего. Тепловизоры свои , вся электроника своя у нас. Мы восстановили лучшую в мире советскую электронику. Санкции только делают сильнее нас и развивают нашу экономику. Не смешите нас вашей пропагандой, потому что вас уже жалко становится. 😂
That is a lie
@@Wlad-nc9ysJoin the army, Ivan. Your country needs you.
@@Devil_Dog_98 не переживай , у нас достаточно армии на фронте, чтобы выкинуть нато из украины навсегда. Ждем тебя в наёмниках. И да, наемников в плен мы не берем. 😉
@@Wlad-nc9ys Oh no, but that don’t matter Ivan! Mother Russia is calling! You need to get back and answer the call!😉
Without a major international buyer like Turkey, India, or Egypt I can't see Russia ever mass producing the T-14.
Low iq comment but somehow it produces tanks in mass for all other models. Make that make sense 😂😂
They can't massproduce it, because the engine is terrible. It fails all the time, and they constructed and developed the tank around the engine, so they can't just use another engine. That means, the whole program failed. In average, the tank has problems every 40km or 25 miles, and needs specialists to fix it, so the thing is useless.
@@alexnderrrthewoke4479we talk about the t14. And in fact it is not mass produced. He is right about that...
@avarion9538 So you watched lazerpigs shitpost video on the T14 and now you're an expert on that tank and how often it breaks down, in Ireland we call this shitetalk of the highest order.
@@sH-ed5yf not yet and again if you use laserpig as your source then you need to go to a therapy session. Seriously
we kinda do this too.
generally no one makes their entire fleet the most modern tank. it's just so expensive.
Turtle tank is the new meta! 😂
T14 is already obsolescent! ❤
From modern T14 to Mad MaX style shack.
And so is the challenger, panther and overhyped abrams
@@tomvlodek6377 Ukraine got the oldest Abrams available M1A1 from 80s. USA is not stupid to send the best ones to some random country.
@ataksnajpera main difference of old and new abrams is secret armor. But side strikes with drones and artillery will still destroy both
@@user-ru6yl9zr2z most likely you will be able to only destroy tracks. Latest version of Abrams are much more difficult to destroy. One Abrams in Irak got hit 7 times by RPG and was still working.
Lots of tanks that are "good enough" are better than one "super tank". Hopefully the UK's MOD get the message also.
The new T-90 breakthrough tank Russia developed costs them between $1.5-2.5m, considering Russia has bolstered their own factories for mass production, we can assume it's under $2m per unit. That's 4 T-90 breakthrough tanks for every T-14, not to mention it takes much longer to produce the T-14 armata even if it enters mass production.
So yeah it makes zero sense for Russia to go with the armata platform, ESPECIALLY in the type of modern conflict we have witnessed taking place in Ukraine. Remember, the armata platform was planned and design way before this war even started.. it would work amazing in small proxy wars around Africa and the Middle East, but in Ukraine where both sides has all kinds top-tier anti-tank options? Hell no.
the T-90M runs about $4.5mil per unit, half the expected initial unit cost of $9mil per unit for the T-14.
Except you lose the crew when a T90 gets hit. In theory the T14 crew would survive. Easier to replace tanks then it is experienced crews
BMPT terminator preformed better than the older BMP models with higher survivability it uses same Armata platform I think so idk
@@Chris-zr3to it definitely costs less than $4.5 million to replace the 3-man crew. russian crews don't get much training, so it makes no sense to ensure their survival. that still makes the T-90 the better option, economically.
@@mspicer3262 maybe but it is hard to put a price on battlefield experience
What some commenter overlook is that retooling factories for mass production also drives up initial cost and hampers logistics
Da komradski
when flying stealth shovels and nuclear powered washing machine can do that work, why do Russian still need T14?
In a war economy prices do not matter much, unless you can´t get hands on the ressources.
And there we are: Russia does not get the high tech needed for such a tank and therefore simply can´t produce this tank. Also: this tank is pure crap and they know it. So they use other excusses for not producing it.
Yep!
That is suggesting tanks like the Abrams X is bad because they aren’t producing it. It could just mean it is to expensive, unnecessary, or simply takes to long to build. It was originally a technology demonstrator.
@@jade7631Abrams x is on another level, pact with innovative tech like giving the crew the ability to see through and around the tank like an f35 pilot. While the t14 is just trying to be a regular modern abrams and failing.
@@jade7631 no. The Abrams is a fine tank, the T-14 is crap. But the Russians won´t get far with reverse engineering on captured Abrams tanks. They had good scientists and engineers, but their industry lacks the abilities.
It is one thing to know how something works and another thing to produce it in a useable quality and quantity.
@@elig3671 Abrams X is a technology demonstrator. It will not be ready for at least half a decade. The T-14 was already in slow production. T-14 if matches what was speculated, out preforms the Abrams by a lot. We have already confirmed that a stripped down M1A2 can be killed with just a T-72B3M, and the T-14 was engineered to counter what the best the west has to offer. T-14 exist, while the Abrams X doesn’t.
It’s clear to me that the T-14 is being cancelled in favor of the Blyatmobile.
That's the turtle tank first seen some weeks ago?
Russia decides to cancel building the invincible T14 and concentrate on reintroducing T55's for year 3 of their 3 day SMO
When javelins will take out ANY of them equally well you use tanks primarily for things other than MBT on MMBT combat you might as well just slap some cheap upgrades on old ones and save money.
3 day SMO? Said by who exactly? Cause I can't recall any Russian Officials saying such a line. It's almost as if that statement was made by an American General called General Milley. Cut it with the bs propaganda, it doesn't look good on you and plus it won't work on people who have 2 braincells that they can use to connect the dots.
Its called the T-14 because it was supposed to come out in 2014
There is always 2114
I don’t think Russia will be in any financial position after this war to think about expensive advancements in weapons technologies. War is an exhaustively expensive undertaking regardless of the country and Russia was not in particularly strong economic shape before the war. They are on track to allot 35% of all government spending toward the war in 2024. That’s a lot of domestic services and infrastructure that won’t be addressed.
@@Simeon301091and here come long-range Ukrainian drones. How many Russian oil refineries dis they hit last month?
@vp5209 and what it do to the front? Nothing.
@@vp5209 who cares, ukraine won’t exist in 2025 😂
@@user-ru6yl9zr2z nothing 😂
@@user-ru6yl9zr2z it’ll help him cope 😂
It’s in a war. You have plants setup that can mass produce a tanks that’s 70% as good for 15% the price. Doesn’t need a video to explain this
Almost like any tank is better than no tank.
Just waiting for a Stug 3 style vehicle to be introduced.
The other way around. A manufacturer complained about the Russian government requiring an older BMP variant even though it was more expensive.
Money is "cheap". It wouldn't matter if the Armata was the same cost, if the electronics required more lead time due to sanctions.
Im waiting for modernized t-34s just for the lols
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD Thats not exactly right, the exact interviews was that the government requested it, but they told them that it would be more expensive. Xou left out crucial parts of it.
Russia has been saying it's been producing T-14s for the past ten years now.
They also initiated the Special Military Operation.
The T-14 never existed, was never in production, and Russia started the war in Ukraine knowing full well the T-14 would never participate.
next gen tanks will need major anti-drone capabilities, significant top armor improvements, be unmanned or have a very snall crew, have hardened sensors that survive precision artillery and auto cannon fire, and have capabilities that allow them to spot for indirect fire rapidly and accurately
in my very humble opinion we are about to see the most significant paradigm shift in tank design in 80-100 years
Spot on! There are two ways to go that I can think of, extreme mobility and camouflage or even more armoring, but tanks cannot remain unchanged.
Yeah, Russia can't afford the R&D for that and I don't think Iran and North Korea will be much help.
At least Western designs are made around crew survival.
@@wolven777 ya and even with infinitry there gonna need anti drone capabilities to I've ben thinking shotguns and bird shot you don't have to destroy the Droid just down it
@@JAy-dx1xb I don't think armor can be reinforced without severe loss in mobility and a more difficult maintenance and logistic, unless they invent some ulra light extra hard armor.
Russians are very good with low cost high practicality solutions, I bet we will soon see a turret with a shotgun that engages drones.
@@wolven777 Russia built there military around that the Ukraine war just prove them right wars is not about technology its about how much you have and I believe most of there T model tanks use the same mechanism making logistics and field repairing easier I wish the usa would stop with there tech up multiple billion dollars tanks there good against goat farmers but a real army there are gonna have to be changes we haven't seen real large scale war from the usa since ww2
Any question about the modern Russian military can usually be answered by "they can't afford it" or "they don't have the capacity to build enough"
Yeah obviously lol, that’s what happens when you aren’t spending 800 billion dollars on “defense” (certified US of A moment) 😂😂😂
They never existed past the prototype rofl
I guess you've not seem them in parades?
@@ACR909 weve seen the prototype yea. or would you send a extremly expensive tank to the front which even breaks down on a parade?
@@grovsmed4347 it didnt break down, can people stop repeating this lie its so stupid
Turtle tanks are the future!!
Everyone has already realized that the future belongs to “turtle tanks.”
Reject modernity, return to StuG.
No! It belongs to giant MECHs! Mechwarrior style!
remember when binkov got to talk about hypothetical war, rather than war? The days of affording at least 2 meals a day, even on a walmart salary, with manageable fuel prices?
Yeah, me niether, thank you 2020s
Facts
Russia needs other countries to buy the T-14 to reduce the per unit costs through economy of scale before Russia they themselves can afford to buy them. Same with their fighter aircraft.
In modern battlefield a TOP of line tank dies as easily as a T55. That mean it is nto worth to invest in expensive tanks.
Yes and the T14 is literally the Russian version of a western Tank.
No army in their sensible mind will develop new tank before find a solution for the new threat.
Ukrainian deployed some Abrams and it showed that even the Frontline western tanks facing big tactical issues with the new technology of drones and transparent battlefields
tanks will not for long be so easy to kill. The drone problem will be solved soon. Active protection systems like iron first or Trophy will solve this. Artillery and mines will always remain a problem but thats the case for all
The Turtle Tank was more successful than the T14
...and the Leopard 2... and the Challenger 2... and the Abrams...
@@springbloom5940all these tanks would obliterate any russian tank in open combat like during gulf war
expecting a conflict like that is naive at best, warfare changes and so should tanks,tanks arent gonna reach an end all be all stage,there will be pros and cons to every tank,just as there was in the gulf war.@@skkhammuansangngaihte4989
@@skkhammuansangngaihte4989 "like during the gulf war" it's like having a M60 shooting at a T-34, poorly trained Iraqi tankers in rotting T-55's and T-72's vs modernized M1's isn't a good comparison.
@@PadparadZha27 russian tanks still would likely lose to most tanks of west under normal convenient fight.Unless they fought the nato tanks from 1980s
Tanks are a layer of weapon. Just like other weapons. No one weapon is the king of weapons. There is a counter weapon for every weapon.
In general, during peace time it makes sense to produce your most advanced stuff. During war time it makes more sense to produce your simpler, more reliable equipment. Especially if your most modern equipment is shit.
I think time has stopped for the production of new tanks for everyone until they find a way to protect the tank from drones.
Yes exactly. Also the ubiquity of ATGM's. Heavy armour just doesn't work any more.
Although that may be true, that's not the reason Russia isn't procuring any T-14s
The loitering/top-attack munitions problem needs to be mitigated before any more tanks are designed… 🙄
Well, yeah, it's kinda painful to manufacture a multi million dollar tank which can be destroyed by a 100$ drone.
Because the t14 is a good tank on paper only and it hasn't all the glorious capabilities that the sales pitch claim.
And when in the real world of a real war, the sales pitch counts for nothing compared to the reality of high explosive anti tank weapons.
Not versed in this topic at all but having a hell of a time reading the comments.
T-14 is in the same boat as SU-57: unaffordable for Russia.
They were probably hoping to export both of those to other countries in order to subsidize development and production, but the war has largely put a stop to that. The Russian military just doesn't buy enough of them on its own to justify extremely expensive, bleeding-edge development programs
"Test Batch" ---> Testing whether the procedures for syphoning money into private overseas bank accounts are sufficiently robust. (The Test was Successful).
Russia has tanks?! Thought all they had were shovels!
☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
Greetings komrad, how is the 3 day special military operation going ?
@@Vlad_-_-_ greetings nazi, hows the counteroffensive going?
@@Vlad_-_-_u mean the offensive that the USA general said?
@@HairLessBush No, I mean the failed russian one that was supposed to take 3 days
Oh mah gaaaaaa. As if this opinion was already voiced 2 years ago but a random Scottish alcoholic.
It needs to defend itself from drones, it makes no sense to build it otherwise
The obvious answer is : Russia is not fighting a counter-insurgency warfare(For example Chenchen War and Battle of Marawi in Phillipines), instead they were waging attrition warfare(For example Second Sino Japanese War and the current War in Ukraine). T-14 wasn't adequate enough for the task, also you need to import military graded chips for the T-14 components as well.
Ask not what you can do to the tank; ask what the tank can do to you.
T-14 was also too big for existing facilities - just doesn't fit in storage and repair boxes built for Soviet tanks.
So the saga ended by not choosing T-14, not even T-90, instead T-72B3 was picked as Russian standard MBT.
It was never meant for production anyway. They couldn't even make the X engine work, which is based on an old Austrian design, that no one used, because it doesn't work in a tank. While it looks great on paper, the engine is too complicated, requires a lot of maintenance and the cooling is a nightmare.
They designed the hull around the engine. With a new engine, they have to redesign the hull. The tank is already too big, with a V engine, it will only get longer and heavier.
And that's just one of the many issues the tank has.
Seems difficult to change lines of productions for a tank that still a new platform now that they're fighting a war.
Plus tanks are at a dead end right now, as far as their combat role etc...
So yeah modernizing relible current tanks seems to be more sensible
being deployed to two war zones with plenty of footage pouring out without a single sighting. now that some stealth
Thanks since their inception tanks have been imagined as some kind of invincible dominating power and tanks fighting other tanks. At the start they sure were a force to be reckoned with if they had adequate infantry support, but this has become less and less true. Intelligence is the true king of war and nowadays you have detection platforms (drones, satellites) that can detect pretty much anything and achieving surprise is almost impossible. Combined with the fact that if you can detect a threat you can most likely hit and disable it. Investing in big expensive tanks doesn't make that much sense when they can so easily be disabled.
as opposed to any other war in history, in which knowing anything about your enemy wasn't valued????
Active defence systems and more top defence
Wonderwaffe failed to materialize in light of Blyat-Tank's introduction.
Surprisingly it was a great video overall, thought I obviously don't agree that it's obsolete. It's not obsolete as it is the future of tank warfare, which would come in a few years time.
The whole confusion with the T14 tanks is that they were in LRIP phase (Low Rate Initial Production phase) which wasn't defined by Russia hence where all of this confusion comes from. The Abrams tank went through the same debacle. It originally had an LRIP phase too with the name M1 Abrams. Then it went into series production with a new name. The T14 Armata is just getting out of this LRIP phase and enters into small batch series production ( which wasn't communicated properly, hence why all of this confusion in the first place).
Aslong an FPV Drone Costs like 200$ it doesnt matter how High Tech and expensive my Tank is aslong it isnt able to defend itself against these drones.
I think, many countries currently overthink how they can counter the newly discovered threat.
As for the Russians, currently, its smarter to buy/produce cheaper Tanks as they can do the same but for a smaller cost.
Agreed. Old design concepts does not make sense on today battlefield. We need to return to the drawing board and come up with something that will penetrate modern defences.
Tanks just need mounted AA guns, so the MGturrets will likely become autocannons turrets with a lot of automation to detect and shoot small drones
Ahh, another person that doesnt understand the "race" part of an arms race.
Electronic Warfare will get better, and already has, and those cheap drones will not be useful anymore.
It's already starting, with drones being increasingly lost before they could be used because the EW jams them.
My thoughts are that the focus will be on modifying it to effectively counter drones, and, if that can be done, they then have a highly desirable product. If drones can be reliably countered, that is a major advantage.
They can. It is not so hard to make an automated small .50 scale turret that shot incomming drones. Problem is.. a constant radar emission would make it target of anti radiation missiles. Expensive tanks are not in a great position right now. Even the High end NATO tanks die as easily as the T72 (on side of ukraine) in this war.
@tiagodagostini don't necessarily need radar - optical detection methods can be used. Anti-radar missiles seem overkill for a tank anyway.
@@tiagodagostiniThe Abrams still a wonderful tank and far surpasses anything Russia has in their armory and their production is so good that they can be made just as fast as the T-34
@@macfly6237 Way to miss the point. Ukraine losses of tanks be them T64 T72 LEopard , AMX or Abrams have been EXACTLY proportional to the quantity of these tanks they have. That measn that the amazing super advanced tanks die as easily as CRAP tanks in the modern battlefield.
The drones are a lot more movable than the gun, and the size of it🤏@@tiagodagostini
Drones changed warfare. You don't need advanced tanks, you need a metal box on top of the tank to stop drones and rockets from penetrating the hull.
Right Abrams showed us that 10 million a tank and 150 dollar drones are leaving them in the dirt. Cheaper tanks that u can mass produce is the way to go and Russia has that on lock
@@JAy-dx1xb No they dont. They cant mass produce. All they do right now is pull old Tanks from their massive Storages and send them into combat with a cheap overhaul. When their storage runs out the cant even outproduct daily losses.
@@JAy-dx1xbdon't forget t-72 destroying abrams easy with one shot
@@marcpaulus6291yes they can dude. Russia is mass producing all tank models and they reatarted t-80 tanks production again. Cope
@@alexnderrrthewoke4479 not really. They take 80% from storage, and even this is just 120 tanks a month. That's not really mass production, if you look at the confirmed losses. Also keep in mind, a lot of it is T-55 and T-62, so if we talk about new tanks, the real number is around 25 a month. Russia published the 120 tanks per month and if you look into the factories, that produce the tanks, you can find the number, that 80% are from storage, easily.
Cost 5-20 million for one gen 5 tank just imagine how many 50$ drones u could buy with that kind of money… you could fill the sky with drones
The problem with that is $50 drones can easily be defeated by some more serious nation like the US that knows a thing or 2 about EW
If that would be the case we would see it in Ukraine dont you think...@@davout5775
@@davout5775Russia literally has better EW than the US
@@someboi4535 Is that the reason why Russia is now making "tutel tanks"? Because they can't jam even basic, consumer-grade drones?
@@davout5775 the turtle tanks have a drone jammer on it Ignoramous, and yes, Russia has always had better EW because that is how they decided to defend against US
2 reasons:
1. The engine is terrible and can't get fixed
2. It doesn't exist. Just hilariously bad prototypes
You probably think it uses the Tiger P engine right?
Lazerpig did a great episode on this, really shows the effects of brain drain.
@@cutedogsgettingcuddles9862His video was full of errors, it absolutely is not good.
@@voidtempering8700 Settle down, Scott Ritter.
@@cutedogsgettingcuddles9862 ?
It needs to be redesigned, or better a new tank designed from the ground up to defend against drones and top attack ATGMs. The T-14 was designed before the Ukraine War, so it was designed before a good understanding of what threats tanks face on the modern battlefield would be. I think a new tank needs to be designed from the ground up to deal with both threats innately.
My crazy ideas! Have drones affixed to the surface of the tank. These drones would be kinda like reactive armor, except they can move around and fly. When a threat is detected, either a drone, or an ATGM (including top attack), the drone detaches and flies out to intercept the threat and destroy it. Ideally, these drones should be kinda like robotic beetles i.e. ornithopters. We have built ornithopters before, but never a robotic flying beetle, but it can be done! The drones also double as reactive armor so even if a drone isn't detached in time, it can still protect the tank as normal reactive armor. Think of them as armor that moves. They can move around the tank and protect the parts of the tank that are most vulnerable at a given time. The drones could also be used offensively, and attack infantry and light vehicles, and possibly even some low flying aircraft. Another idea would be to use either these drones, or another kind of drone to surveil the area, and improve the situational awareness of the tank.
Basically the solution to drones, is to not beat them, but join them!
There is another advantage to older and cheaper. Russia can no long produce some ofthe more advanced electro/optical components.
I don't think the term "obsolete" is approriate. The tanks is presently less effective. Historically, being less effective does not make an item obsolete. Almost always, an item becomes obsolte when something(s) else can do the same job more effectively.
Older and cheaper also means more crew that needs to be trained, more logistics involved for more vehicles, its not only advantages
Military tech might be an exemption to that rule. Advancements in firepower has made stuff like armor and fortifications (as they were) obsolete many times.
@@WRAAAMmh Tech rules nowadays.
All the technology that Russia cannot produce now comes from china. That lack of technology talking point is old and debunked now.
T14 just doesn't make strategic sense to mass produce when t90 is cheaper faster/easier to produce and is Battle tested and can do the job just as good if not better.
Making a new tank puts strain on the logictis and production line because for menufacturing new tanks new supply chain / process's are needed to be established.
So Russia just goes with t90 mass-producing since everything is already established and calibrated Russia just needs to ramp up production when russia needs more of it and looks like russia is doing just that.
The T14 has such amazing stealth technology that none have been detected in Ukraine!
Yea, The Abrams, Leopard 2, and Challenger 2 should copy T-14 stealth technology, seeing how their best contribution to the war was blowing up on camera.
@@sting2death2 Meanwhile Russia has sent over 3000 of its own tanks into low orbit. Truly an amazing feat of engineering, eh comrade?
@@joshnelson6750 most of the knock outs are not catastrophic and the crew abandon the tanks, and despite the low numbers of Western MBTs we've already had at least 1 Leo and Chally toss their turret, and an Abrams cook-off into the fighting compartment (presumably mid-reload).
The Da soviet engineering comrade part is the fact that Russia can pump out over 3000 tanks and then some. The Challenger 2 also turned out to be the worst of them all, breaking down and sinking in the mud constantly, so much so that Banderastan stopped fielding them.
@sting2death2 Russian didn't produce the vast majority of the tanks it's lost in Ukraine - the USSR did.
The fact of the matter is that their tank production is not able to keep up with their losses. Hence why so many old relics from the 60s and before have to pulled out of mothball and sent to the front.
That's not to say that Western countries would be able to keep up either, but NATO generally focuses on quality rather than quantity.
@@joshnelson6750 the fact of the matter is Russia is getting rid of old tech
Eh, AbramX moving to three crew in the hull was a development concept by the company, that does not necessarily mean the US Army is planning on doing the same with their M1A3.
That wasnt the US Army or any state contracted thing.
It was mostly a company making a few upgrades to sell to other countries.
Knowing how Russians do things to the letter of the law or contract, while killing the spirit of it, I'm willing to bet that those 20 original prototypes are the pre-production tanks also. I'm willing to bet that they only have 20 tanks, and those are the original prototypes, relabeled as pre-production pre-serial whatever. I'm also willing to bet, that they will send those pre-production tanks back to the factory and upgrade them and make into serial production number tanks, in addition to actually new production versions. The wording of all those contracts was just fudgy enough, to make me think that they're going to or have already massaged the meaning. The Kremlin is always about illusion, or grifting
поплачь в подушку, иллюзионист
@@user-kc9nf5yq8n the real illusion is the 15 year old tank design still not put into actual production.
@@dominuslogik484 ты видимо просто тупой, в нем уже просто нет смысла, потому что сражения танк на танк редкость, а нужны Цари Мангалы для прорыва обороны и защиты от дронов + рабочие лошадки - Т-90, Т-72 б3 с мангалами и рэбами (которые у нас уже стоят, что там у вас по рэбам?) Но ты можешь сесть в свое высокотехнологичное гавно - Абрамс или Леопард, и сгореть там нахрен, не доехав даже до линии соприкосновения
@@dominuslogik484 15 year old design? You mean 35 year old design?
T-14 is a late 80s Soviet design
@@johnclay2716 when I say 15 years old im talking about the finalized design and not counting the time the Soviets did the heavy lifting then collapsed during the research stage.
Because it is a “prestige vehicle,” not a good one
I honestly think now would be a great time for every military to reevaluate their tank designs and their fundamental role in warfare. Take a pause, build what you're already building if it is still needed, but go back to the drawing board for anything else in the future
Right now its all about how much it costs & how fast it can be produce.
If you ask me (I know you didn't but hey, here is my opinion anyway :D ) tanks won't become obsolete; you need something well armored on the battlefields to support your infantries, because only with artillery and airforce bombardments, you can't occupy a territory and push out enemy forces from there in a long term - so instead, they (I mean tanks) will evolve in a way what would be similar to future planes/air units; one Human Controlled expensive MBT will supervise and command 4-5-6-7...you name it, AI controlled smaller and most importantly, Cheaper armored vehicles what you can even sacrifice for a greater benefit without going home later with coffins in hands. And of course, all of the vehicles (including the "human one") will be connected in a " swarm network" with every other friendly units on the battlefield: what a unit's camera or radar already saw and learned, the other units will know that too 1 sec later, even without like, for example, entering the same building, or cross the same river, etc. etc.
Finally, I would like to mention that I really like your final words on the video; I may sounded "funny" at the beginning of my comment but seriously, I do agree w you: only with PEACE we humans can achieve great things, and what we really need is not more wars but to save humanity and other lifes on Earth in long terms by reducing our (humanity's) negative foot prints on our COMMON planet, and by creating bases and DNS, DNA safe banks on other planets, because you have to face it: no matter what we do, Earth is going to die at some point and Only Together we can slow down this process and more importantly, find and secure new homes for our grandchildren and for our successors on other planets.
This is not sci-fi. This is the Absolute Reality... and yes, we All could be a smaller or a bigger part of these positive changes - if we want .
BRO WROTE A BOOK💀💀💀💀💀☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️💀💀💀💀💀
@@AnmolX-jw8jr I had some free time today to do that :P
T14 tanks cost around $7M. For the same money, you could buy 20 -30 automated (crewless) Toyota pickups with bolted on light armour, mounted missiles, and 50cal machine guns. Given today's battlefield, I suspect the latter would be much more effective.
Those are great mine removing vehicles
T14's don't exist, so no they don't.
I'm just going by the Wikipedia estimate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-14_Armata. But you are right. It is not in production. So the estimate is just that. Either way, my point was that a swarm of fast, cheap, automated, less-armored systems will as a whole survive longer and provide equal or greater firepower for the same amount of investment.
@@patrickdegenaar9495 Oh, like chinese golf carts? Now you are just makin' shit up...
You couldn't be more wrong
I highly doubt the T-14 was ever used in Ukraine. Both sides film everything, and we never got a single geolocated photo of one. And I suspect Russia concluded that the negative propaganda of T-14’s getting blown up would far overshadow any small advantage the tank would bring to the battlefield.
Basically the Battleship in 1941
Future tank is lightweight with crap load of ERA protection. I bet you can count on fingers how many tanks have been destroyed in ukraine by kinetic rounds larger than 35mm, so what's the point of holing 70 tons to armor?
ERA isn't that good, it's an explosive charge pointed at every one and every thing around the tank so you can't keep infantry and light vehicles in close proximity without drones either succeeding in taking out the tank or succeeding in filling the surrounding soldiers with shrapnel. On the other hand if you keep your tank isolated its limited field of view will make it even easier to take out with drones.
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr so basically don't use a tank?
@@KaiDidumaNx You switch to Autonomous tanks that are built for speed over suitability.
“Just wait till the T-14 gets to the front, then you will see” every bot ever…
nice chutzpah. Every nafobot said the same about [western tank X].
@@bestcyborg889 Except those tanks actually saw combat unlike the T-14.
I'm surprised and it makes sense, it would be more useful as an test demo for the T-90/80
Not outdated , but the separate armoured crew module is unnecessary. Plus, all its systems can be integrated into a legacy design. Merkava mk5, type10, Altay etc are examples.
It is a cryptid of a tank. T-14 seems like a shell concept with no combat reports to take from. They appear then disappear.
@@foundones That is a foolish comparison. The Bradley is from the early 80s and simply troop transports with TOW missiles, but two quickly took out a T-95 pretty quickly due to the essential technology allowing them to drive and shoot at the same time. This is something most Russian tanks can’t due, at least not at any speed.the Bradley also have had few to no casualties when disabled. None have been full wipe outs crew and all.
Outdated ? Nope.
Costlier for the work already been done by cheaper elements ? Definitely.
Applies for all new gen tanks.
Yeah there not going to make another soviet mistake if t-72b3 is good enough for now there no need to destroy the economy making super tanks
Really depends on air superiority. If you don’t have it, tanks will be very vulnerable.
It really is too expensive, though. They were never able to scale production enough to lower costs.
I think the answer is pretty easy because the Russians don't want to spend a staggering amount of money on a vehicle that we could easily refer to as a Russian "Abrams" (even though they look nothing alike) and have to deal with all the problems that come with it. . a tank of such size and weight, vehicles that are clearly not very appropriate for the geography of the country. On the contrary, they prefer to continue with the standards they are accustomed to in medium-weight, easily adaptable and cheap tanks like the T-80 and T-90. Regarding these tanks, I believe that sooner or later Russia will unify them into a single platform to which they will be able to adapt the type of armament and engine necessary with minimal factory modifications, a cheap universal chassis that they will be able to mass produce on a unified production line. , or at least that is the impression I get from the development of practically all Russian vehicles today.
You are assuming that Russia will exist 10 years from now, which is a rather major requirement in building new tank models. Regardless of how the war in Ukraine goes, it's a second Afghanistan, and we all know what happened to USSR after. It's simply economically unsustainable, but we do get to watch them spew out nuclear threats every month or so, here's some fun to be had.
@phoenix211245 Your delusional if you think Russia is done for after this war lmao
@@graham5716 I thought I was delusional to think that USSR would collapse in 1990, yet it happened. I'm living through the beginning of Russia's collapse right now. There is A LOT of internal tension.
You are delusional if you think that the country will exist in 10 years. It's rather silly to believe a country that disintegrates every 50-60 years will last.
@@graham5716 same could have been said about the USSR, and where is in now?
For Russia, even if they lose, it would be just another Crimean War... (They lost the Crimean War as the whole Europe sided with Ottoman, but they in the end won by tired out the European countries, that none cares if they broke the war treaty, invaded Ottoman some years later and achieved their goal).
But they are winning in the battlefield, and the situation in their home ground is not as bad as 1942 (when Soviet almost bankrupted due to corruption and the fragmentation inside their Party after the Great Purge), Russia is still in their comfortable zone (not your normal standard comfortable zone, of course...)
You can't buy something that your industry can't build? 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah wich is why they are winning in ukraine? 😂 something your industry cant build... you mean hi tech western weapons wich produce 1 sam battery a month or even 2 months? And in frances case 1 ceasar artillery system in 6 months
@@evobsm2328they are winning because of the size of russia against a smaller military. The good news is good always triumphs over evil and the same will happen in Ukraine 🇺🇦
@@evobsm2328 Congress got lobbied to litterally overproduce Abrams's to the point the Americans couldnt even find a way to field them.
Especially with how the Marines are getting rid of most of their MBT's.
They had to use them as mine clearing vehicles, medevac, and other menial tasks because of the overproduction.
Nothing is free. The Americans are sending the Abrams because they dont even use them compared to LAV's and such
@@derekwellwood5454 ? Why did the USA lose to vietnam and afghanistan then? Kinda strange no? Those countries where twice and 5 times less big then ukraine
@@evobsm2328 USA failed in Vietnam and Afghanistan because they were the invading force, both decisions to go in and install a west friendly leader may work if the majority of the people want the change. In both Vietnam and Afghanistan they didn’t want it, time to get out. It’s clear to me that Ukraine 🇺🇦 wants to keep their freedom, so I think it’s time to get out. russia is only interested in genocide so Ukraine is also fighting for survival. Big difference between us and russia
Putin’s next super yacht or more $ on the T-14, guess what’s going to win out?
$700 million super yacht not too expensive. Da comrade, da!
From this conflict I think we can confirm that the cost to benefit for the T-14 is not good. I personally think that given the nature of things that the design proposal of the Object 490B would have been far better suited for modern conflict. Would be far easier to retrofit anti-drone and anti-top attack defenses to a tank of that design.
In essence, when a country's MOD/DoD reduces the quantity of serial production, the more expensive a single unit becomes.
The fabled, propaganda T-14.
And nobody else around here has a T-14 hyperdrive I promise you that!
😂
Always amused when a picture of any Russian authority figure is shown, they always look like a James Bond villain.
Because is not working prototype without engine and at the end electronic is not Russian production.
Yeah; the world's electronics and engines aren't made in Russia after all. They're made in that famous place the West controls; the People's Republic of China.