I will NEVER forget those three young men. The brutality they faced was such a shocking way to die. I have a collection of memorial badges and other memorabilia in their memory. May they forever rest in peace. Lest We Forget.
I was there 50 years ago , young soldier with my best friend who was later shot in the head at a check point . hated every minute , pointless the whole of it...
May be pointless to you....but not pointless to people like me and my poor sister who came to visit Belfast and treated like shit by a certain community who seem devoured by hatred!! I want to tell you, the ONLY (and I mean the ONLY) reason me and my sister are alive today is because of the British Army!! God bless them all!!
You ain’t wrong. Fools to the extent that we lead ourselves to our grave. God Bless the Three Scottish Soldiers. They were simply doing their job. If only modern hindsight had told them that representing Occupiers’ agendas would lead them to their death... Being in the wrong place at the wrong time, representing national interests of others, is costly to both the individual and their families... The victims of both sides in this awful conflict are too many.
aye people should love each other, but when you aren't allowed that liberty by an oppressive occupying force what then? Should we all just do as we're told and love those who dictate how we can live our lives? The troubles were a difficult period, but sometimes revolutionary action is much easier than pacifism - and can often make life better
@@AD270479 They had no business in Ireland, the vast majority of the Irish people want an end to English interference in their country. Iraq, Afghanistan, Ireland, etc, Get out and stay out.
"well the sorrow , the suffering, the glory, the pain the killing and dieing was all done in vain. for young willie mcbride, it all happened again and again and again and again and again"
@Mike D Ah, revisionist Marxist history...just like being back at uni. Err, no. WW1, and WW2 were direct results of German ambitions to rule Europe. Simplistic anti-war nonsense does nobody any favours. It's certainly not an accurate assessment of historical facts.
@@johnmcevoy1038 it can be used in any context to show that violence is nothing but a waste of lives and ww1 was supposed to finish war for ever that's the pup the politicians fed the ordanry people to make them go out and get themselves killed.
When talking about modern Ireland one thing that needs to be mentioned was how a Protestant Irish Parliament successfully gained independence for Ireland between 1782 and 1800, during which time Catholics got most of their rights back, with most Irish people of different faiths uniting under the ideologies of either constitutionalism or Republicanism, with both in favour of varying degrees of Irish sovereignty/autonomy and increased personal rights. This independence ended when a failed Republican Revolution in 1798 led British prime minister William Pitt to intimidate and bribe the Irish Parliament into merging the Kingdom Ireland into the UK after an initial Union vote failed. Ireland’s Parliament was forced to merge with The British one (though the courts and civil service of Ireland remained separate, but nominally subject to Westminster from now on). People on both sides seem to have completely forgotten this chapter in Irish history, because Protestants and Catholics fighting together for an independent Irish Kingdom doesn’t fit anyone’s narrative, and yet it had a major impact on the island. Unionism, Republicanism and Constitutionalism all originate from the original Irish volunteers that used the opportunity of the American Revolution distracting Britain to revolt in 1782. This heralded the independence and has shaped all aspects of Irish politics ever since…
The “failed Republican Revolution” you make reference to was actually a cross-community movement called the United Irishmen, featuring significant Protestant representation in its leadership, such as Anglican Theobald Wolfe Tone and Presbyterian Henry Joy McCracken. Also, Grattan’s Parliament represented nothing close to an independent Ireland, and the fact that it was essentially bribed into voting for its own dissolution should be testament to this. That and also the fact that the majority Irish Catholic population was disenfranchised at the time, and also given that there was no Irish executive.
This phenomenon of memory reset occurred in mid 70s and arguably late 80s when PIRA embraced electoral politics. The IRA leadership involved in the Feakle talks confided in one Protestant clergyman who was present they were keen to resolve the conflict now lest it consume a second generation. All of it was a tragedy, much of it a farce. RIP to the innocent people who lost their lives.
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The British Army avoided sending Military Units from South of England and Wales knowing that they would not be as bigoted and biased, and all Pro-Orange Order.
@@johndoe-ss9bz I wouldn't put too much faith in that if I were honest. You may get some Orange order clowns by sending Northern troops but you'll also get far more Catholics. About 30% of the soldiers from Scottish regiments were Catholics inculding my family. Doesn't really make sense if you're trying to send bigots to also send those who are more sympathetic. Don't you think?
@@tu-shey2307 :: The Troubles began with institutionalized discrimination against the Catholic-Irish in the Six-Counties. 70% of Solders were non-catholic and set the tone. Catholic Citizens were called derogatory names by a great number of Soldiers. Maps that soldiers carried, Catholic areas marked as hostile areas, and Protestant areas marked as friendly areas. Catholic Soldiers had to toe the line. For the native Catholic-Irish, it was a struggle for "Catholic-Emancipation" in the Six-County Sectarian-Statelet. "RIGHT is RIGHT" and "WRONG is WRONG". Good-people will stand up for what is RIGHT and not be made cower in fear.
I had been in HM Forces for just a week when this atrocity took place..I was 17 years old..it hit home and hard.. On my subsequent tours of Belfast over the years..I went past the place where they were left..paid my respects.. RIP Brothet Warriors..gone but never forgotten..
@@brainmclaughlin8798 we always have!!!!!! Some Scots went to fight in Ireland that’s there choice as it was when Irish Scottish and English men went to fight for hitler. So your point is what exactly. Pointless that what it is
Yes, in the end, we all become stories. Some become tragedies, comedies, farces, satyr plays, epics, or satires. Sadly, to some degree or another, Ireland has been under England's heel for so long, most people (other than the Irish) cannot seem to fathom why the Irish object to the fact that England still treats a large part of Ireland as a colonial possession that it can occupy, manipulate, and toy with, against the will of the Irish people. I'm an American. And in some respects I cannot help feeling deep admiration for the historical transformations endured by Britons over the centuries, from the time of the Roman invasions, occupation, and colonization of Brittania. The people of that island endured many atrocities over the centuries, only to become stronger for it and then inflict atrocities on countless others around the globe for centuries afterward. How ironic that the battered inhabitants of a little patch of an island located off of the far western edge of a mere peninsula jutting out from Asia (for that's what Europe is--not a continent of its own) should survive the pounding of Romans, Germanic tribes, Vikings, Normans, the Dutch, the French, Spaniards, the French again, and finally more Germans should end up being known as bullies when they themselves were bullied so badly by so many for so long! Britons have a story that is really a series of stories that run the gamut of all the genres I've listed above (and probably more that I neglected to mention). How bizarre!
Just found this video, this is my mum, she sadly passed 2 years before this was aired. She never forgot that day she found them, could recall it like it was yesterday.
When there is a conflict [any conflict that has ever been] you open the gates of hell and enable every sociopath/rapist/twisted feck to have free reign and a perfect excuse to to do there obscene deeds. THIS IS AN UNDENIABLE FACT. So people of true decency and a spiritual understanding should do ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in their power to never allow these conflicts to be allowed to happen .
I knew several people who were daily communicants..and yet members of the IRA. They were not sociopaths, rapists etc, They were normal young men who found themselves in extraordinary circumstances. When the options you get on joining the IRA is " If you are lucky you will end up in jail, but most likely you will end up in the cemetery", What you got, in the round, where young dedicated men who were willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. Until people get their heads around that that, they wont have a very good picture of what really happened here
@@robertmacnaughton4190 Thanks for the reply Robert. And by listening we not only learn from them but their rich personal histories are not lost forever to time . Unless, as a person, you are absolutely against killing in any and all circumstances, then the reasons for war and all that comes with it becomes simply subjective. A young man from Bradford joining "his" army is no different to a young lad from the Bogside joining "his". Robert, i have no doubt the motive your relatives had for joining the military was to serve their country the best way they could. The tone of your reply is in stark contrast to the narrow mindedness shown by some other contributors on this site.
There were soo many more murders and tragedies since and before this committed by both sides in this conflict. The legacy of these troubles means that justice may never be found for far too many and these injustices will be felt for generations to come.
Quite a few winners in each war. Business men, arms dealers, politicians who don't have to risk their lives and just decide to send a bunch of young poor guys to go die for them, military higher ups whose hardest time is informing the parents of those they have sent out to go and die for a not so great salary. Don't get me wrong, there are way more losers than winners in every war, but who cares about those stupid peasants anyway? The important people who start wars don't suffer their consequences. They just use the "tragic losses" to convince the voters to keep supporting more and more wars. And as soon as they're done with that, they retreat to their villas and clubs to drink bottles worth a year's salary of the foot soldier idiots who are prepared to sacrifice themselves for a moderate to low income.
I was there dec 82 to june 83 west belfast theres no winners in that war on all sides and in any war it starts with we are there to keep the peace in end every side wants to kill you as a soldier serving there and sad to say some cilvilians even kids die by that sad war
You were part of the problem… the British partition and occupation of Ireland, which Britain has no mandate for in Ireland is/was the problem. You were sent to Ireland not to keep peace but to protect British interests in Ireland.
To fully understand this, I think you would've had to be there and lived it. For all the rest, we are only intellectualizing it and possibly doing it a disservice.
Lived through it....seen it all. Seen friends killed for no reason. 11 year old mate especially, murdered by a british soldier. Pure and unadulterated...and not a thing about it done. I have encountered lovely soldiers who really did not want to be here. The IRA also done some horrifics acts. THere is a war museum in Holland. The theme is "what would you do? In any war, people either join sides with the aggressor for self preservation. Some people attack the aggressor. THe majority in the middle just try to get their heads down and hope it all goes away soon. I met an American outside it it, The visit had moved him. He had never personally seen his country invaded or under the control of a foreign power. He genuinely couldnt answer the "what would you do" if you found yourself under occupation BUt he did have a better understanding of "terrorists". He didnt have a conversion...but he could see another side. At times that is all we can ask for......people to see both sides of an event and make a better informed opinions.
@@jamesjoseph7508, I'm at a loss. Perplexed actually. Okay, somewhat curious. With the IRA publically claiming credit for many 'acts, ' why not the bus shooting? Or did I miss something? Why is P. O' Kane the chief instigator or prime suspect for these particular assassinations? At every instance, it seems that his actions seem to be the lynchpin for more aggressive retribution by the Royals against Republicans. With today's knowledge of the thorough infiltration of the IRA by British intelligence services and the revelations of blackmail by the same services against the Unionist leadership in regards to Kencora and other disgusting predilections, I have to wonder how much 'trouble' can be attributed to the IRA and not British Intelligence Operations whose techniques for questioning 'suspects' is used by many other police/intelligence services to this day. They have a history undermining anti-Royal causes from the inside out, both domestic and internationally. Now we discover that he [O'K] got a "get out of jail card" ?! I have to wonder out loud, "Something is missing from this investigation, and the whole truth hasn't come out." I think all involved in this story, from the heads of the BBC all the way down to the cameraman, feel a big cover-up has been discovered. Maybe it's just me.
"With the IRA publically claiming credit for many 'acts, ' why not the bus shooting? Or did I miss something? Yes...you missed the bit where this attack was not officially sanctioned by the Army itself therefore Oglaigh Na hEireann did not accept responsibility. "Why is P. O' Kane the chief instigator or prime suspect for these particular assassinations? " I have no idea on who carried out this attack therefore i cannot comment. "With today's knowledge of the thorough infiltration of the IRA by British intelligence services" This is a modern day myth. Russia infiltrates America and vice versa. Most countries have spies and are spied on by others...even with billions of pounds ploughed in to try to prevent it. So to expect a volunteer army not to be infiltrated is a flight of fancy. To say parts of the IRA wasnt compromised would also be a nonsense. But facts do not bear this myth out. Bishopsgate, baltic exchange, Docklands..as examples..put paid to that. In fact, even recently released secret British Government papers covering the period May to December 1997 and events around peace talks quite clearly show that British Intelligence was not all what it is now being portrayed.They were not even sure if the IRA was genuine in pursuing peace: " the short answer is:we do not know for sure" So much for infiltration right up to the highest level. " Now we discover that he [O'K] got a "get out of jail card" ?!" i have no idea who the " he" is you are referring to As for the rest of your piece. It sounds like you have gone down a conspiracy rabbithole...i hope you come out of it soon. Like any war , the events here were dirty and we will never find out a full truth. But referencing my earlier post, I reiterate... Why have files, relating to the murder of an 11 year old child by a british army soldier, been closed to 2059 and 2071. What is the british government so afraid of???
As horrible as this, its barely a scratch on the surface in relation to all the death, murder and atrocity. The regiment should have warned the soldiers regarding drinking, socialising in active combat zones and as sad as it is when you join the military at whatever age they accept you, you are trained to kill and in turn be killed upon deployment wherever in the world.
They where adviced by the reg. And yes a soldier accepts the risks to life and limb in combat. But getting lured to your death on a day off is not in anyway combat. And nor can it be in any way considered a legitimate military operation. By the executioners. Cowardly!! And the woman that lured them pulled the triggers as much as the assassin's! A dirty war! When right was wrong, and wrong was right. RIP to all lost to the conflict!!
33:52 "I believe that any man that could execute three young Scottish soldiers in that manner must have been a psychopath". Kieran Conway, former IRA Intelligence Officer
@@johndoe-ss9bz Jesus wept john what are you on about? Orange Gangsters abducting and killing soldiers then dumping the bodies in Ligoniel? What they just drove up there and dumped them? I have a strong feeling you weren't around Belfast in these times.
I’ve always thought that terrorists known to the security forces should just “disappear”. A vague rumour about “witness protection” would help prevent any “ Martyr” nonsense from their organisation, and at the same time hurt their morale as they’d never know for sure.
Ah...but is a 'known' terrorist one who carries out the atrocity,or the one who gives the orders?Where do you draw the line? Bin Laden was vilified until he was put to the sword,but Martin McGuinness sat in government and met the Queen........what's that old saying again,"One mans terrorist....."
Don't you know that's been a Brit terror tactic for generations? Jesus, you guys can't take much reality can you? Just take your phony nationalism home to your slave state and keep it to yourself, Brit.
Oh, so they should just murder anybody without a trial? What about the loyalist murder gangs run by the security forces? Because that's what you are agreeing with.
Whether in Northern Ireland, ex- Jugoslavia or the Ukraine, when radical politicians on both sides decide to play one side off against the other, countless innocent people are going to suffer and die.
If England would have left Ireland to the Irish then these squaddies would still be alive. They made the decision to join the British army. Can't cry about it now.
A government that would rather add petrol to the flames by making things more hostile than try to deal with the issue of catholic civil rights in Northern Ireland. Look up Bloody Sunday and the ballymurphy massacre, the British government and army were not much better than the IRA at times.
Ian Soulter no wonder the jocks hated the cowardly IRA . If the republicans hated the British that much why did they not move south . Oliver Cromwell and his cronies were cruel bastards and did some unspeakable things but that was centuries ago so why take it out on todays soldiers who are really only trying to keep the peace . Heartless murderings bastards they are .
@@kevinadamson7571 Not all jocks hate the IRA. SNP are huge supporters & don’t attempt to hide their ties to Irish Republicanism. In fact their founding members were die hard fascists. Andrew Dewar Gibb often quoted Adolf Hitler in his speeches in the 1930’s. He gave his backing eventually to Churchill when war was declared however he wrote in his journal that he didn’t care who won & offered to resign the party at an Edinburgh meeting claiming “I make no secret of my distinct fascist leanings” Fast forward to 2020 & we have Herr Sturgeon in power & nothing has changed . They unashamedly despise everything British & have been using blasphemy laws to silence Scottish Unionists & Loyalists.
@@kevinadamson7571 You know a laughably small amount of history, if you think that the Republican's grievances lie solely with the horrors of Cromwell. Read some Irish or British history sources to find out the events that transpired, since the Cromwell period.
To anyone who doesnt know Sectarian problems between loyalists and Republicans are as strong in parts of Scotland as in Northern Ireland. Many Protestants who settled in NI are of Scottish descent. This may or may not have influenced the killings but people should be aware of the relevance of Scottish Regiments being used in N. Ireland.
Scotland wants no part of this at all we encourage only peace so don't let there be any twisted opinions on this but we will defend our own as in Scottish people against anyone else, ✌️
I truly question the wisdom behind the order to kill these young men, particularly a 17 year old. I also question the wisdom of sending a 17 year old soldier to Belfast at that time and also drinking in an Irish bar which has roots in Irish republicanism going back to 1798. There is no doubt in my mind that these killings did nothing to advance the cause for Irish unification which I fervently support. If anything the killing of these men and the way they were killed only polarised communities in the conflict even further and gave rise to further loss of life. However, the killings perhaps illustrate the tension between two concepts which may have troubled one of the people mentioned in this program, from two young men whom I both respect and revere who died in war and who will forever be remembered for their words shortly before they died; Tiocfaidh ar la and 'the old lie' Dulce et Decorum est. Pro patria mori. RIP Three Scottish Soldiers.
That is a great statement - probably the most balanced one I have ever read on RUclips concerning 'The Troubles'. Too many just spout the usual preconceptions and prejudices, never attempting to see the other side. Both 'tribes' did terrible things in the name of their particular ideals and lots of innocents suffered.
@@TheCatBilbo ::Dublin and Monaghan bombings 17-MAY-1974. 3-bombs exploded in Dublin during the evening rush hour, and a fourth exploded in Monaghan 90-minutes later. They killed 33-people including a full-term unborn baby and injured 300 people. The bombings were the deadliest bombings in the history of Ireland. Most of the victims were young women. The "Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) a loyalist paramilitary group claimed responsibility for the bombings in 1993. There were allegations taken seriously that elements of the British State Security Forces helped the UVF. The coordination and expertise were well above what the UVF could achieve without error.
@@johndoe-ss9bz Exactly, both sides committed atrocities, broke the law, carried out 'false flag' operations - all part of the 'Dirty War'. A very good BBC documentary examined the conflict & there was compelling evidence that the first bombing in the Province was by Loyalists paramilitaries.
@@TheCatBilbo :: The North of Ireland does not have a tribal past. The Crown did not want a repeat of the "Plantation of Munster" in which the Planted Anglo-Normans assimilated with the Native-Irish until they became more Irish than the Irish themselves. To-day their names are all over Munster and Leinster Provinces. They do not call themselves "Munster-English" or "Leinster-English". The Plantation of Ulster on confiscated lands had a strong Social Engineering Element to make the "Scott Tenant Farmers" be in constant conflict with the remaining Irish Native Catholics that were not forced to go to "Hell or Connaught"!
Diarmait Mac Murchada .. opened the door towards Anglo Irish troubles. It dates back centuries . Those who have died, young people on both sides . And the politicians grew older and wealthier.
Referring to what went off over there as 'troubles' is like calling WW2 ' a bit of a falling out". It wasn't 'troubles' it was terrorist activity. To call it 'troubles' is demeaning to every soldier and police officer who died in the course of their duty
That "Headline"comment hardly recognises(or chooses to ignore)the history and backdrop to all of this. .Of course these were heinous crimes,but hundreds of yrs of oppression could only lead to a certain kind of violent response. .But for some reason so many people were surprised!
It was an awful horrible war with victims on all sides. Many atrocities were committed by each side. There is trauma that exists within each community involved and each family lives with grief and loss. To keep the hate and distrust alive is incredibly sad and is destructive. I hope a long lasting genuine peace can be achieved. RIP all those who died.
With the hours of emotional sweat that went into the peace efforts of The Good Friday Agreement in the 90'sin mind, it seems counter productive to drudge up old news of attacks from back in the 1970's.
Most people have worked out by now division is the order of the day. let's keep dredging up the past, let's keep pointing out the divisions & NEVER let people heal, move on & embrace a new beginning. There is none of that & never will be, keep opening old wounds & let's create new gaping ones. Keep everybody in their respective tribes, ideologies & worldview while the political class, their masters & the media hacks consolidate their power. authority & keep enriching themselves while the brainwashed sheep keep fighting among themselves. These patterns are repeated everywhere, every aspect of society. White versus Black, Christian versus Muslim, Young versus Old, Rich versus Poor, Left versus Right & so on & so on. Until such times enough people wake up & say enough things will never change for the better.
@@kevinadamson7571 Yes ... true ... Saville Inquiry into Bloody Sunday was a disgrace blaming soldiers for those 14 terrorist death was just ridiculous ... !!!
Like a lot of disgusting acts of “Terror”, this completely backfired and only made things much worse for the very people it claimed to be Liberating. It also inspired the formation of the “Tartan” Gangs.
@@LiamHickey2967 ruclips.net/video/Ycw5ZjP0-n0/видео.html This was one, there were quite a few different localised versions in Northern Ireland, with 1000’s of young members.
@@lextalonis839 : The "6-county Statelet" is a "Failed State" incapable of modern Non-Sectarian Governance. The "2-State Solution" for the de-colonization of the "Colony of Ireland" was a "FAILURE" from inception. Just like most borders drawn up in former colonies creating problems that exist to this day.
@@johndoe-ss9bz Aye, maybe so but Northern Ireland is a truly lovely place to live. The reference people appear to have about the North is completely wrong. Like Afghanistan, and due to it’s geographical location, it has had folks coming and going, fighting, invading and claiming this and that for 1000’s of years. From Vikings to Berbers we have had the lot. Only the Romans were too scared to have a go! So notions of “Failed States” etc really are a bit limited and the kind of mental cul de sacs that offer no solution. So what what you suggest?
Im ashamed to see images of Scottish soldiers occupying and brutalising Irish people on their own soil. Disgusting behaviour and quite frankly , any Scotsman behaving like that deserves what he gets.
But you see, it's not me, it's not my family In your head, in your head, they are fightin' With the their tanks and their bombs and their bombs and their guns In your head, in your head, they are cryin'
A war for Catholic Suppression, in a Sectarian Statlet, Catholics were denied a Fair and Equal "Political Solution. They were called Papists by Orange Leaders and Murdered for just been born a Catholic in North-East Ireland. Barbarian-Governance.
@@danielspillett5393 what union do you speak of,, ?? A country infested with the very people you tried and failed to conquer, they followed u home, your little Briton has become a reality,,the queen you claim rules your life is so inbred it's only a matter of time before she too dissapeares,, keep up your stupid royal charade,
@@Drifty40 based on FIRST HAND prosecution by your relatives,i have good reason to be. If I were u I would start apologizing to all the people you country terrorized.and still actively engaging in same..
Effectively. The fact that the IRA command would say that "we should only fight while they are in uniform" explains why the war was settled by a truce rather than victory or defeat. The idea that hostile soldiers would wander off base into active combat zones and expect to be treated as welcome... I seriously have a hard time understanding that level of "awareness" of what they are doing there.
Tragic stories of conflict on both sides, a lot of Scottish don't realise the scoti are originally from Ireland and moved from the western Isles across what is now Scotland I'm not sure but I think the picts were the native people and blended with each other over centuries. History is mad really
@@donalkinsella4380 I was interested in your'e 'unique' DNA comment, but the 'transvestism' bit sounds really well thought out on a scientific level. Do you have a link to that concept at all? I suppose your'e saying there are no 'trannies', nor has there ever been, in Ireland, or anywhere in the world wide Irish diaspora.
@@donalkinsella4380 It seems my reply, to your'e reply with the link attached, got wiped. I don't know why. I used an Aussie colloquialism for women, derived from our Irish ancestry, which is a female name that starts with S, in regards to men wearing their clothes. I think thats what did it, because apparently thats offensive now. Then your'e Basque reply arrived, so I'll try again. The example given in the link is happening, or trying to be made to happen, in many places all over the place, not just in the land of Scots. Men are also wearing 'women's' (this was where the S word was) clothes, hell west and crooked. I hardly think that 'Scotland is famous for giving the world transvestism' as you imply, it just seems like a lazy put down to me, when it's been around for centuries. As for the Basque thing, I guess it boils down to linguistics. Theres no link between Irish and Basque. If anything, Irish is more related to Breton, in NW France. In fact Breton, Welsh and Cornish are closely related, while Irish, Scots and Manx are closely related. The two groups have things in common, but none of them have links to Basque. I guess a huge DNA study would need to be done, and not really rely on your'e, 'it is incredible just how similar they are to us' theory.
@@donalkinsella4380 I see you got that post with the kilt thing, that is the post I thought got wiped. I don't have it on my feed. Anyway how was I wrong? If you can read and comprehend English, you'll see I was talking about language and apparently there is no link between the two. I then said DNA studies would need to be done to prove it. So I wasn't discounting it, moron. I just wasn't going with your'e really 'scientific' study of, I've been to the Basque country, they're a lot like us, bullshit! The link you posted said there was some shared DNA with the Basques, but it also said there is stuff which is the same as the Scots, Welsh, and Bretons. So theres Celt AND Basque. It doesn't make you 'Basque', or the Basques 'Irish'. Obviously a few 'Basque' type folks made it to Ireland, interbred with, then were totally overwhelmed by, the Celts. Hence there is none of their language left in the Irish language, which was my original point. I just love your'e pathetically childish jibe about 'the zoo', by the way.
@@donalkinsella4380 Also in the article you sent, it states that most modern day Irish are mostly related to folks from NW France (Bretons) and folks from western Norway (Vikings). So like most people, your'e a mix of many races. Yet you have your romantic Basque/Irish thing happening, meanwhile being in total denial of the huge amount of Celt/Norse genes you share with the hated Scots or the Welsh, Manx, Cornish or the most reviled of the lot, the English!!
May these days be gone forever. I live in North America as a Scottish immigrant. and funnily enough the Irish and Scots get on great when they are each outside of their countries of birth! We share a common culture, much of which revolves around alcohol and music.
@@seanmacuaiteir437 I'm not so sure, things may be changing, but I've met Scots who immigrated to my country, especially Protestants, who are unbelievably sectarian. They hate Scottish Catholics, and of course Irish Catholics. This hatred between the two camps has been evident with some Scot, and the odd Irish, backpackers I've met here as well. I also visited Glasgow in the eighties and couldn't believe the quite casual, accepted, sectarian hatred. I know that was awhile ago, and you and the OP were talking about getting on in other places. Just thought I'd mention it.
You've obviously never been to either Northern Ireland or Scotland. If you think the both cultures revolve much around booze and drink than you live in cloud cuckoo land.
@@warrenmilford1329 :: Catholic Irish, Catholic Scots, Church of Ireland and Church of England and Irish and England Jewry all work together and get along fine with ZERO-SECTARIANISM in all aspects of governance, sports and commerce, and community.
37 weeks is the traininmg course once at the Infantry training regiment, Catterick garrison, north yorkshire, England, U.K. The line infantry is 26 weeks, the 5 guards regiments 28 weeks and the Parachute Regiment 30 weeks. Not part of the British Army , but part of the royal Navy, the Corps of Royal Marines do 33 weeks, The RAF regiment of the RAF do 32 weeks initial training.
@@rabsmiff Oh, you think NOT making consequences for the Russians will stop freakazoids like Putin from destroying the world? Ask Neville Chamberlain how that worked for him.
@@lanewoods9420 the Americans are too afraid to risk a nuclear War with Russia, they have abandoned the rest of Europe to the mercy of Putin and they are prepared to sacrifice the whole of Europe, including Britain and Ireland just so long as they [the USA] do not get dragged into the mess they partly started.
My boss drove us from Mallusk to Belfast, but via Ligoniel. We stopped at the small monument to the 3 soldiers. My boss for some reason smiled and said "honeypot".
I haven't seen to the end of this program yet, but something tells me at the end of this trail is going to emerge evidence that O'Kane was an asset of British intelligence. Considering his history in the paras that wouldn't surprise me, and it's the psychopathic types, after all, who seem to make their way into that particularly ironic line of work (ahem, Stakeknife).
Very interesting, yet incredibly sad documentary. Two things come to mind: (1) The pain suffered by, and the lack of justice for, the victims' families; and (2) The cowardly executions of these young men. No matter what your opinion on 'The Troubles' in Northern Ireland or what side you take (if any), this was completely unnecessary and, in my opinion, had a negative effect on the PIRA's propaganda. Important to note the view of their own intelligence officer, and Dublin solicitor, who basically condemned the action.
It didn't though did it, why because internment was introduced and resulted in an increase in IRA recruitment. Some of the actions carried out by the Provisionals during the war were difficult to stand over and justify. On the whole the campaign was ultimately justified as it eventually brought the British to the table and the GFA.
@@paulthomas2178, Debate is always a good thing. I understand your sentiments on internment and the rule of law. In a democracy, the detention of an individual without trial cannot be justified and, undoubtedly, that had an impact on PIRA recruitment. However, I believe that you're in agreement when you say, "Some of the actions carried out by the Provisionals during the war were difficult to stand over and justify [sic]." As for the whole campaign being justified, statistics dictate that predominantly innocent lives were lost on both sides of the divide. That in itself is impossible to justify.
@@paulphilipempey1 what i would say is that volunteers consented to be put into harms way by their commanders and to be harmed by the enemy. Intentional killing of civilians can't be justified, accidental killing of civilians can be excused.
I really do appreciate your opinion. I'm in agreement up to the word 'justified', i.e. I don't agree with the accidental killing of civilians being excusable.
@@paulthomas2178 :: "Internment Without Trial" was responsible for a massive increase in volunteers for the "Provisional IRA". And "Bloody Sunday" in Derry had every young Irishman in the 6-county colony looking for Arms to Fight for Irish Catholic FREEDOM in IRELAND.
Because Scotland and Northern Ireland are both part of the United Kingdom, (along with England and Wales). So those Scots were on their on soil, so to speak, as part of the UK's armed forces.
@Mike Rotch Your'e right of course mate. No doubt their families wished they'd stayed 'on', their own Scottish soil. The whole situation of 'the troubles' was a tragedy all round.
I wish people would really find out for themselves why all this shit didnt have to happen. Or atleast find out what caused it to happen in the first place. I am English born and bread and all i will say is it may surprise you. Instead of doing what i did growing up and listen to the bbc and the MOD.
@jimfirstname jim :: During the "Black and Tan" war of terror on the People-of Ireland they were rated for their terror "The Worst" were "North of Ireland" Black and Tans, the next Worse were Scottish Black and Tans' and the better behaved were the English and Welsh. The British Army was respected as soldiers.
Here Here ! I've been trying to wrap my head around this long running topic and it's been a wee bit slow going. This has elements similar to the American Civil War, but for different reasons. The British part in all of this just makes it more complicated.
@@ProbablyTooLoud I'll be brief. Ulster is one of the four traditional Irish provinces in the north. There are nine counties there, six of which make up Ulster. In 1609 Protestant Scots and English arrived there to take over land previously owned by Gaelic Irish nobility. By the times of the troubles ('68 to '98) the population was split roughly half Protestant and half Catholic. Since Ireland seceded from the UK in 1922 and became a Free State it has been an island in two parts. Ireland, mostly Catholic, and Ulster that remained as part of the UK. The ridiculous thing is that there were paramilitary forces on both sides, for example the Protestants had the following: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF); Ulster Protestant Volunteers (UPV); Ulster Defence Association (UDA); Red Hand Commando (RHC); Ulster Resistance (UR) and the Loyalist Volunteer Force (LVF) carrying out sectarian killings, but in the case of these Scottish soldiers they were out of uniform but still seen as British occupiers. At the beginning of the troubles the soldiers came as "peacekeepers" and were thanked by the Catholic people, but they very soon came to be seen as an occupying force. The British Army, made up of English, Irish, Scots, Welsh, Nepalese etc., etc, were seen as an enemy by the IRA (Irish Republican Army) who are also the Nationalists and Republicans, since their idea was and still is to join Eire (Southern Ireland) to Ulster (Northern Ireland). The point about this documentary which tries to give some peace to the families of the victims is that the Scottish are also a Gaelic people; the young British soldiers were also killed by an ex-British soldier and I think I'm right in saying they were also Catholics. Mate, that's it. I am English but grew up reading about the troubles every single day of my life in the newspapers and believe you me, as a kid it took time to understand it all. The RUC, by the way were the Royal Ulster Constabulary (Police) but were also seen as enemy by the PIRA. They've now been disbanded since the Good Friday Agreement which has hopefully put a stop to the troubles for good. To give you an idea, Scotland was also fiercely divided on Catholic and Protestant religious lines, an example is the Celtic (Catholic) versus Rangers (Protestant) soccer rivalry, but these days interfaith marriage is extremely common, and with the decline in the Christian faith in any case a lot of it makes no sense at all. Hope that puts you in the picture and if anyone else reads this I'm not getting involved in any political arguments. I'm white English Anglo-Saxon Anglican C of E, and my partner is Mexican Catholic. The kids get told to do what's good for them and when the time comes they can make up their own minds about religion.
Truth and Justice are the foundation of civilization. "Truth and Justice" for all the people in the Government Of the People By the People For the People.
@@bigboaby555 :: The Catholic Irish in the 6-counties of North East suffered the most deaths from killings by the Army, the RUC, the UDR. the UDA. the UDF, and the SAS.
It's not good to have Scottish soldiers armed and walking around the streets of Belfast without the permission of 85% of the Irish people no more than it would be acceptable to see Irish soldiers walking around the streets of Glasgow without the permission of the Scottish people.
@Shane Gallagher :: Catholic lives taken are treated at "Lesser Value" lives and don't count as much in Sectarian Governance supported by the British Armed Forces.
All this is very pointless. The families need to point their disdain at England for their needless oppression of Northern Ireland. Time to say farewell. England never should have been there. The lives that were lost is on England
Was it deliberate government policy to send Scottish regiments to patrol in areas where they would antagonize the local catholic population? If so the government should bear some of the responsibility of the outcome.
Wasn't the female driver once married to the Irish actor Stephen Rea? I seem to recall it was either her or her sister M.D drove many people to their deaths.
Hey Noel, why not? After all, how many of those 'Brit' soldiers who died - just following their orders, doing their jobs, avoiding the Dole queues - actually understood exactly what they were fighting for or defending? As a 'Brit' I feel betrayed; given that the supposed stance of the British Government throughout was one of not negotiating with 'terrorists' when all along - and as good men and women were dying on both 'sides' - negotiations were, in fact going on! FFS, the root of much of these 'troubles' were the invasion of Ireland by Cromwell's lot - or so we are led to believe. Why can the Irish people not draw a line under the troubles of the past and move on? Please, don't expect me to waste my time (I address this to outside viewers of this post not to the original poster) trying to defend/condone the British position in this mess. To all the casualties on both/all sides - RIP....
@@georgebuller1914 We'll draw a line under it when you're gone from our country once and for all. You think you're being all magnanimous but you're not, you're the same as it ever was.Brits Out
@@nowleta And 'Brit' - as you use it - isn't? That was why I chose to use the word I did. And for the benefit of the less enlightened on here, could you please expand on 'FTQ'?
I knew Paddy O Kane as he was a member of alcoholics anonymous & I often met him at meetings in Limerick,Shannon and Ennis. I remember him dying from cancer. He always struck me as a very calm,relaxed and quiet gentleman who was always helping people in AA. The fact he died means I can break his anonymity. I was shocked hearing his name mentioned in this documentary as I had no idea of his Republican background or these murders he allegedly committed. I know he was sober a long time and good on him. RIP old chap .
A so-called "soldier" who shoots anybody, whether another real soldier, or just a normal non-commissioned civilian in the back, is a shameful coward and a sick murderer and most of all never a soldier, whatever side he is on and whatever his kinship, religion or political beliefs. A real soldier faces his adversary on equal terms! He is one that neither needs to come from behind, nor is he one who kills from a distance and who travels mainly in the dark shunning close combat.
When fighting a force bigger, stronger, and better equipped than yourself you fight however you have to. The world plays by rules other than the naive ones in your head.
What about the 30 million Indians the British murdered through artificial famines and civilian massacres? What about the Burmese natives oppressed and killed by your British soldiers? What about the Opium War and countless plunder that you inflicted on the Chinese? What about the treatment of aborigines in Australia by the British and their descendants? What about the colonial killings and widespread mistreatment of Africans in your so called colonies?
What about Gibraltar ? 3 boys out for a drink compared with an IRA ASU out to carry out a bombing which would have killed dozens of foreign civilians who had nothing to do with the conflict ? As usual double standards !!
3 coward terrorists? are you condoning terrorism? remember, the only good terrorist is a dead one.....duh'edd'duh as in no longer breathing, no longer able to kill innocents and oh' no more silly balaclava wearing.
No. The Spanish had tracked McCann, Savage and Farrell. They were angry when they were shot because they expected the British to arrest them. They said a good terrorist is not one who is dead but one who is behind bars. The families took the British Government to the European Court of Human Rights and won their case.
@@iansoutryer3189 What do you think the colours on the Irish flag represent? The green represents Catholics, the white represents peace, while the orange represents Protestants.
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The three young men have not been forgot by Belfast people flowers and sympathy always
I'm sure you have lost many a nights sleep
ruclips.net/video/Yvc852TztSs/видео.html&ab_channel=Reddebrek
Pop quiz then - what was their favorite pub?
I will NEVER forget those three young men. The brutality they faced was such a shocking way to die. I have a collection of memorial badges and other memorabilia in their memory. May they forever rest in peace.
Lest We Forget.
i always think of their poor mothers x
and yet no one has been convicted of it, and yet soldiers are still been hounded for their mistakes
Hounded? How many soldiers spent time in prison despite numerous transgressions to the point of cold-blooded murder?
@@Conorguill far too many, they didnt have get out of jail cards like the terrorists
@@neilharrison8568 you don’t need a “get out of jail” card if you aren’t in jail to begin with…
They want accountability but they don’t want to be accountable. This was before Bloody Sunday.
Boohoo a few have been "chased" knowing full well they'll never be charged or see a courtroom.
When I saw my Granny McCaughey I broke down as I did not remember what she looked liked So long ago but Always remember never forget our Soldiers
I was there 50 years ago , young soldier with my best friend who was later shot in the head at a check point . hated every minute , pointless the whole of it...
May be pointless to you....but not pointless to people like me and my poor sister who came to visit Belfast and treated like shit by a certain community who seem devoured by hatred!! I want to tell you, the ONLY (and I mean the ONLY) reason me and my sister are alive today is because of the British Army!! God bless them all!!
@@miel1074 So true , but don't have a go at me because i am on your side of the argument. i was there as a soldier so i know what it was like.
Should have stayed home Peter.
Allon u were doing a job so sad all of it, in my heart I would love to see a United Ireland.
poor lad didn't deserve that
Have you asked you local mp to move a private members bill for the British government to run a referendum for a withdrawal from northern Ireland?
What fools we all are dancing to the tune of the Politicians and their Masters.
You ain’t wrong. Fools to the extent that we lead ourselves to our grave.
God Bless the Three Scottish Soldiers. They were simply doing their job. If only modern hindsight had told them that representing Occupiers’ agendas would lead them to their death...
Being in the wrong place at the wrong time, representing national interests of others, is costly to both the individual and their families...
The victims of both sides in this awful conflict are too many.
We should send the politicians to do the fighting
@@Adrian-ju7cmdont hold your breath waiting for that.
@@Iveraghboy unfortunately some thing's will never change
Yeah you are if you do that.
People should just love each other, everything else is just a waste of time
@@TheWrensHouse True, they went there to defend their civilians from terrorists.
aye people should love each other, but when you aren't allowed that liberty by an oppressive occupying force what then? Should we all just do as we're told and love those who dictate how we can live our lives? The troubles were a difficult period, but sometimes revolutionary action is much easier than pacifism - and can often make life better
Very naive statement.True,but naive.
@@AD270479 They had no business in Ireland, the vast majority of the Irish people want an end to English interference in their country. Iraq, Afghanistan, Ireland, etc, Get out and stay out.
@@williamgoldsmith3796 yea, they just invited the whole world in to their country, newsflash !
"well the sorrow , the suffering, the glory, the pain
the killing and dieing was all done in vain.
for young willie mcbride, it all happened again
and again and again and again and again"
A song written by a Scotsman about a Scottish soldier in the British army.
@Mike D Ah, revisionist Marxist history...just like being back at uni. Err, no. WW1, and WW2 were direct results of German ambitions to rule Europe. Simplistic anti-war nonsense does nobody any favours. It's certainly not an accurate assessment of historical facts.
That songs about world war one.. Not the troubles..
How true
@@johnmcevoy1038 it can be used in any context to show that violence is nothing but a waste of lives and ww1 was supposed to finish war for ever that's the pup the politicians fed the ordanry people to make them go out and get themselves killed.
When talking about modern Ireland one thing that needs to be mentioned was how a Protestant Irish Parliament successfully gained independence for Ireland between 1782 and 1800, during which time Catholics got most of their rights back, with most Irish people of different faiths uniting under the ideologies of either constitutionalism or Republicanism, with both in favour of varying degrees of Irish sovereignty/autonomy and increased personal rights.
This independence ended when a failed Republican Revolution in 1798 led British prime minister William Pitt to intimidate and bribe the Irish Parliament into merging the Kingdom Ireland into the UK after an initial Union vote failed. Ireland’s Parliament was forced to merge with The British one (though the courts and civil service of Ireland remained separate, but nominally subject to Westminster from now on).
People on both sides seem to have completely forgotten this chapter in Irish history, because Protestants and Catholics fighting together for an independent Irish Kingdom doesn’t fit anyone’s narrative, and yet it had a major impact on the island. Unionism, Republicanism and Constitutionalism all originate from the original Irish volunteers that used the opportunity of the American Revolution distracting Britain to revolt in 1782. This heralded the independence and has shaped all aspects of Irish politics ever since…
The “failed Republican Revolution” you make reference to was actually a cross-community movement called the United Irishmen, featuring significant Protestant representation in its leadership, such as Anglican Theobald Wolfe Tone and Presbyterian Henry Joy McCracken.
Also, Grattan’s Parliament represented nothing close to an independent Ireland, and the fact that it was essentially bribed into voting for its own dissolution should be testament to this. That and also the fact that the majority Irish Catholic population was disenfranchised at the time, and also given that there was no Irish executive.
O
This phenomenon of memory reset occurred in mid 70s and arguably late 80s when PIRA embraced electoral politics. The IRA leadership involved in the Feakle talks confided in one Protestant clergyman who was present they were keen to resolve the conflict now lest it consume a second generation. All of it was a tragedy, much of it a farce. RIP to the innocent people who lost their lives.
Appreciate the upload
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Nae bother
Fair play to that Ira geezer at 33 mins, at least he’s honest
Seeing the pics of the 2 brothers as children made this very poignant, whole thing is very sad......Ahimsa............Bless......RIP......
The British Army avoided sending Military Units from South of England and Wales knowing that they would not be as bigoted and biased, and all Pro-Orange Order.
@@johndoe-ss9bz Source?
@@tu-shey2307 :: Citizens from "The Six-Counties" with relatives in the British Army!
@@johndoe-ss9bz I wouldn't put too much faith in that if I were honest. You may get some Orange order clowns by sending Northern troops but you'll also get far more Catholics.
About 30% of the soldiers from Scottish regiments were Catholics inculding my family. Doesn't really make sense if you're trying to send bigots to also send those who are more sympathetic. Don't you think?
@@tu-shey2307 :: The Troubles began with institutionalized discrimination against the Catholic-Irish in the Six-Counties. 70% of Solders were non-catholic and set the tone. Catholic Citizens were called derogatory names by a great number of Soldiers. Maps that soldiers carried, Catholic areas marked as hostile areas, and Protestant areas marked as friendly areas. Catholic Soldiers had to toe the line. For the native Catholic-Irish, it was a struggle for "Catholic-Emancipation" in the Six-County Sectarian-Statelet. "RIGHT is RIGHT" and "WRONG is WRONG". Good-people will stand up for what is RIGHT and not be made cower in fear.
I had been in HM Forces for just a week when this atrocity took place..I was 17 years old..it hit home and hard..
On my subsequent tours of Belfast over the years..I went past the place where they were left..paid my respects..
RIP Brothet Warriors..gone but never forgotten..
All too young.
And in the end...we all become stories!
@Gary Fletcher Thats beyond your intelligence Fletcher!
50 years later and Scotland wants its own independence.
@@brainmclaughlin8798 we always have!!!!!! Some Scots went to fight in Ireland that’s there choice as it was when Irish Scottish and English men went to fight for hitler. So your point is what exactly. Pointless that what it is
Yes, in the end, we all become stories. Some become tragedies, comedies, farces, satyr plays, epics, or satires.
Sadly, to some degree or another, Ireland has been under England's heel for so long, most people (other than the Irish) cannot seem to fathom why the Irish object to the fact that England still treats a large part of Ireland as a colonial possession that it can occupy, manipulate, and toy with, against the will of the Irish people.
I'm an American.
And in some respects I cannot help feeling deep admiration for the historical transformations endured by Britons over the centuries, from the time of the Roman invasions, occupation, and colonization of Brittania.
The people of that island endured many atrocities over the centuries, only to become stronger for it and then inflict atrocities on countless others around the globe for centuries afterward.
How ironic that the battered inhabitants of a little patch of an island located off of the far western edge of a mere peninsula jutting out from Asia (for that's what Europe is--not a continent of its own) should survive the pounding of Romans, Germanic tribes, Vikings, Normans, the Dutch, the French, Spaniards, the French again, and finally more Germans should end up being known as bullies when they themselves were bullied so badly by so many for so long!
Britons have a story that is really a series of stories that run the gamut of all the genres I've listed above (and probably more that I neglected to mention).
How bizarre!
@@brainmclaughlin8798 In case you missed something: there was a referendum. And shall I tell you something: you lost...
It was a mess for everyone, the people of NI and the army, looking back it was a political mess.
Bless this lady for remembering the murdered.
Just found this video, this is my mum, she sadly passed 2 years before this was aired. She never forgot that day she found them, could recall it like it was yesterday.
Soo soo sad, imagine that poor we mother loosing two of her sons, and ofcourse the other lad is someone's son too , devastating
When there is a conflict [any conflict that has ever been] you open the gates of hell and enable every sociopath/rapist/twisted feck to have free reign and a perfect excuse to to do there obscene deeds. THIS IS AN UNDENIABLE FACT. So people of true decency and a spiritual understanding should do ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in their power to never allow these conflicts to be allowed to happen .
I knew several people who were daily communicants..and yet members of the IRA.
They were not sociopaths, rapists etc,
They were normal young men who found themselves in extraordinary circumstances.
When the options you get on joining the IRA is " If you are lucky you will end up in jail, but most likely you will end up in the cemetery",
What you got, in the round, where young dedicated men who were willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good.
Until people get their heads around that that, they wont have a very good picture of what really happened here
@@jamesjoseph7508 normal young men....what on earth is that?
@@richardfinlayson1524 If you cannot comprehend 3 simple words like "normal" "young" or "men" then I'm sorry but I'm not sure I can help you Richard.
@@robertmacnaughton4190 Thanks for the reply Robert.
And by listening we not only learn from them but their rich personal histories are not lost forever to time .
Unless, as a person, you are absolutely against killing in any and all circumstances, then the reasons for war and all that comes with it becomes simply subjective.
A young man from Bradford joining "his" army is no different to a young lad from the Bogside joining "his".
Robert, i have no doubt the motive your relatives had for joining the military was to serve their country the best way they could.
The tone of your reply is in stark contrast to the narrow mindedness shown by some other contributors on this site.
Was just thinking this the other day. It legitimises their sick urge to kill and make it justifiable
There were soo many more murders and tragedies since and before this committed by both sides in this conflict. The legacy of these troubles means that justice may never be found for far too many and these injustices will be felt for generations to come.
@Alan Collins They were also there to protect the Catholics and the Nationalists.
@@projectilequestion Protect them like they did Bombay street?
@@theressomelovelyfilthdownh4329 Fair play, but the IRA stabbed the British Army in the back then hid behind civilians.
@@projectilequestion no they weren't they were there as a front for the uvf/uva forces
@@Prinny05 What comment are you replying too?
Never any winners in a war both sides lose people and mostly those who die own the least.
What war? The IRA were/are terrorist bastards as is Paddy Ashdown and All of Shinfien!
The IRA literally attacked civilians….
Quite a few winners in each war. Business men, arms dealers, politicians who don't have to risk their lives and just decide to send a bunch of young poor guys to go die for them, military higher ups whose hardest time is informing the parents of those they have sent out to go and die for a not so great salary.
Don't get me wrong, there are way more losers than winners in every war, but who cares about those stupid peasants anyway? The important people who start wars don't suffer their consequences. They just use the "tragic losses" to convince the voters to keep supporting more and more wars. And as soon as they're done with that, they retreat to their villas and clubs to drink bottles worth a year's salary of the foot soldier idiots who are prepared to sacrifice themselves for a moderate to low income.
A war is where both sides openly face each other on a battlefield. This was NOT a war despite the republican propaganda.
Always remember them my Scottish brothers.
At16:59, the very tall lad with the glasses looks strangely familiar - but of course he "was never in the IRA" ...😄
Another excellent, completely non-bias, professional production of Bolshevik Broadcast Corporation. Good Job comrades!
What's a Bolshevik? Not a single anti communist can answer that.
Great Journalist this bloke is.
Donal mcintryre brother
@@JGormo11811 both are great journalists
I was there dec 82 to june 83 west belfast theres no winners in that war on all sides and in any war it starts with we are there to keep the peace in end every side wants to kill you as a soldier serving there and sad to say some cilvilians even kids die by that sad war
You were part of the problem… the British partition and occupation of Ireland, which Britain has no mandate for in Ireland is/was the problem. You were sent to Ireland not to keep peace but to protect British interests in Ireland.
If you were there to keep the peace why did you side with the unionist/loyalists against their victims?
May these cowardly murderers burn in hell for eternity.
And all the brit soilderrs that murdered innocent Irish, may they burn in helll
Interesting documentary about troubled but interesting times, cheers 👍
To fully understand this, I think you would've had to be there and lived it. For all the rest, we are only intellectualizing it and possibly doing it a disservice.
Well put... but I think is also important to understand for those of us who live in these countries. Peace unto yous day al though ✌️
Lived through it....seen it all. Seen friends killed for no reason. 11 year old mate especially, murdered by a british soldier. Pure and unadulterated...and not a thing about it done.
I have encountered lovely soldiers who really did not want to be here.
The IRA also done some horrifics acts.
THere is a war museum in Holland.
The theme is "what would you do?
In any war, people either join sides with the aggressor for self preservation. Some people attack the aggressor. THe majority in the middle just try to get their heads down and hope it all goes away soon.
I met an American outside it it, The visit had moved him. He had never personally seen his country invaded or under the control of a foreign power.
He genuinely couldnt answer the "what would you do" if you found yourself under occupation
BUt he did have a better understanding of "terrorists". He didnt have a conversion...but he could see another side.
At times that is all we can ask for......people to see both sides of an event and make a better informed opinions.
So?
@@jamesjoseph7508, I'm at a loss. Perplexed actually. Okay, somewhat curious. With the IRA publically claiming credit for many 'acts, ' why not the bus shooting? Or did I miss something? Why is P. O' Kane the chief instigator or prime suspect for these particular assassinations? At every instance, it seems that his actions seem to be the lynchpin for more aggressive retribution by the Royals against Republicans. With today's knowledge of the thorough infiltration of the IRA by British intelligence services and the revelations of blackmail by the same services against the Unionist leadership in regards to Kencora and other disgusting predilections, I have to wonder how much 'trouble' can be attributed to the IRA and not British Intelligence Operations whose techniques for questioning 'suspects' is used by many other police/intelligence services to this day. They have a history undermining anti-Royal causes from the inside out, both domestic and internationally. Now we discover that he [O'K] got a "get out of jail card" ?! I have to wonder out loud, "Something is missing from this investigation, and the whole truth hasn't come out." I think all involved in this story, from the heads of the BBC all the way down to the cameraman, feel a big cover-up has been discovered. Maybe it's just me.
"With the IRA publically claiming credit for many 'acts, ' why not the bus shooting? Or did I miss something?
Yes...you missed the bit where this attack was not officially sanctioned by the Army itself therefore Oglaigh Na hEireann did not accept responsibility.
"Why is P. O' Kane the chief instigator or prime suspect for these particular assassinations? "
I have no idea on who carried out this attack therefore i cannot comment.
"With today's knowledge of the thorough infiltration of the IRA by British intelligence services"
This is a modern day myth.
Russia infiltrates America and vice versa. Most countries have spies and are spied on by others...even with billions of pounds ploughed in to try to prevent it.
So to expect a volunteer army not to be infiltrated is a flight of fancy.
To say parts of the IRA wasnt compromised would also be a nonsense.
But facts do not bear this myth out.
Bishopsgate, baltic exchange, Docklands..as examples..put paid to that.
In fact, even recently released secret British Government papers covering the period May to December 1997 and events around peace talks quite clearly show that British Intelligence was not all what it is now being portrayed.They were not even sure if the IRA was genuine in pursuing peace: " the short answer is:we do not know for sure"
So much for infiltration right up to the highest level.
"
Now we discover that he [O'K] got a "get out of jail card" ?!"
i have no idea who the " he" is you are referring to
As for the rest of your piece. It sounds like you have gone down a conspiracy rabbithole...i hope you come out of it soon.
Like any war , the events here were dirty and we will never find out a full truth.
But referencing my earlier post, I reiterate...
Why have files, relating to the murder of an 11 year old child by a british army soldier, been closed to 2059 and 2071.
What is the british government so afraid of???
God Bless Them we will remember them, To forget is to say it never happened, R,I,P
This was one of the saddest cases ever and apparently what they did to those boys were unspeakable much worse than just being shot
That makes no sense at all. They were shot in the back of the head whilst taking a leak at the side of the road- simple as that.
@@liverpoolscottish6430 The bodies were mutilated. They cut off their genitals and put them in their mouths!
As horrible as this, its barely a scratch on the surface in relation to all the death, murder and atrocity. The regiment should have warned the soldiers regarding drinking, socialising in active combat zones and as sad as it is when you join the military at whatever age they accept you, you are trained to kill and in turn be killed upon deployment wherever in the world.
This !!!!!
They where adviced by the reg. And yes a soldier accepts the risks to life and limb in combat. But getting lured to your death on a day off is not in anyway combat. And nor can it be in any way considered a legitimate military operation. By the executioners. Cowardly!! And the woman that lured them pulled the triggers as much as the assassin's! A dirty war! When right was wrong, and wrong was right. RIP to all lost to the conflict!!
33:52 "I believe that any man that could execute three young Scottish soldiers in that manner must have been a psychopath".
Kieran Conway, former IRA Intelligence Officer
@@johndoe-ss9bz Jesus wept john what are you on about? Orange Gangsters abducting and killing soldiers then dumping the bodies in Ligoniel? What they just drove up there and dumped them? I have a strong feeling you weren't around Belfast in these times.
@@johndoe-ss9bz Eejit!
@@johndoe-ss9bz speaking as someone who actually lived thru this you're a fkin eejit.
A psychopath lone wolf or carrying out orders?
Two words. Shankill Butchers. Now they were psychopaths. 40 of them.
I’ve always thought that terrorists known to the security forces should just “disappear”. A vague rumour about “witness protection” would help prevent any “ Martyr” nonsense from their organisation, and at the same time hurt their morale as they’d never know for sure.
Ah...but is a 'known' terrorist one who carries out the atrocity,or the one who gives the orders?Where do you draw the line?
Bin Laden was vilified until he was put to the sword,but Martin McGuinness sat in government and met the Queen........what's that old saying again,"One mans terrorist....."
Don't you know that's been a Brit terror tactic for generations? Jesus, you guys can't take much reality can you? Just take your phony nationalism home to your slave state and keep it to yourself, Brit.
@@lanewoods9420 well said Lane.
Oh, so they should just murder anybody without a trial? What about the loyalist murder gangs run by the security forces? Because that's what you are agreeing with.
British soldiers get out of Ireland, in other words go home and leave the Irish people in peace.
Tragic story well presented by Macintyre.
housecarl6 Didn't you have another alias ?
2 brothers? That’s truly awful.
Whether in Northern Ireland, ex- Jugoslavia or the Ukraine, when radical politicians on both sides decide to play one side off against the other, countless innocent people are going to suffer and die.
Ukraine has the right to resist Muscovite aggression by any means necessary. No to colonialism!
Absolutely correct
PIA members say it was the paras - twisted sarcasm even when shirking responsibility like weasels.
If England would have left Ireland to the Irish then these squaddies would still be alive. They made the decision to join the British army. Can't cry about it now.
War is hell, never forget that.
terrorism is worse. civilians,non-combatants. yeah,kill those kids
Anthony Dutch Doherty passed away a couple of weeks ago, I can’t imagine any of the other suspects are now still alive
Very sad day Three unfortunate men God rest them Who sent them there
eh do adults not have a choice what they sign up for?
@@elzorro7of9 Brainwashed kids do not
@big Feet Kinda like being a mercenary?
A government that would rather add petrol to the flames by making things more hostile than try to deal with the issue of catholic civil rights in Northern Ireland. Look up Bloody Sunday and the ballymurphy massacre, the British government and army were not much better than the IRA at times.
The bottom-line: it was a murder of three drunk and unarmed soldiers. They were not killed in combat. This is how cowards act - and not heroes.
Ian Soulter no wonder the jocks hated the cowardly IRA . If the republicans hated the British that much why did they not move south . Oliver Cromwell and his cronies were cruel bastards and did some unspeakable things but that was centuries ago so why take it out on todays soldiers who are really only trying to keep the peace . Heartless murderings bastards they are .
@@kevinadamson7571 Why should we move south Scots gone we are still here
@@kevinadamson7571 Not all jocks hate the IRA. SNP are huge supporters & don’t attempt to hide their ties to Irish Republicanism. In fact their founding members were die hard fascists. Andrew Dewar Gibb often quoted Adolf Hitler in his speeches in the 1930’s. He gave his backing eventually to Churchill when war was declared however he wrote in his journal that he didn’t care who won & offered to resign the party at an Edinburgh meeting claiming “I make no secret of my distinct fascist leanings”
Fast forward to 2020 & we have Herr Sturgeon in power & nothing has changed . They unashamedly despise everything British & have been using blasphemy laws to silence Scottish Unionists & Loyalists.
And none of them could have hacked in a British infantry regiment and thatsva fact .
@@kevinadamson7571 You know a laughably small amount of history, if you think that the Republican's grievances lie solely with the horrors of Cromwell. Read some Irish or British history sources to find out the events that transpired, since the Cromwell period.
To anyone who doesnt know Sectarian problems between loyalists and Republicans are as strong in parts of Scotland as in Northern Ireland. Many Protestants who settled in NI are of Scottish descent. This may or may not have influenced the killings but people should be aware of the relevance of Scottish Regiments being used in N. Ireland.
Scotland wants no part of this at all we encourage only peace so don't let there be any twisted opinions on this but we will defend our own as in Scottish people against anyone else, ✌️
@@johnmcintosh5465 At the time Scotland had no control over Scottish Regiments in the British Army. They were controlled from London
i know it was 1971 but why was a 17 year old doing active service. even in 74 we had three soldiers who had to remain in germany until they turned 18
It was his death that changed the active service age to 18
Active service? Northern Ireland? Try getting that past the politicians and the MOD.
The rule of serving in action before turning 18 came about because of this incident.
I truly question the wisdom behind the order to kill these young men, particularly a 17 year old. I also question the wisdom of sending a 17 year old soldier to Belfast at that time and also drinking in an Irish bar which has roots in Irish republicanism going back to 1798. There is no doubt in my mind that these killings did nothing to advance the cause for Irish unification which I fervently support. If anything the killing of these men and the way they were killed only polarised communities in the conflict even further and gave rise to further loss of life. However, the killings perhaps illustrate the tension between two concepts which may have troubled one of the people mentioned in this program, from two young men whom I both respect and revere who died in war and who will forever be remembered for their words shortly before they died; Tiocfaidh ar la and 'the old lie' Dulce et Decorum est. Pro patria mori. RIP Three Scottish Soldiers.
That is a great statement - probably the most balanced one I have ever read on RUclips concerning 'The Troubles'. Too many just spout the usual preconceptions and prejudices, never attempting to see the other side. Both 'tribes' did terrible things in the name of their particular ideals and lots of innocents suffered.
@@TheCatBilbo ::Dublin and Monaghan bombings 17-MAY-1974. 3-bombs exploded in Dublin during the evening rush hour, and a fourth exploded in Monaghan 90-minutes later. They killed 33-people including a full-term unborn baby and injured 300 people. The bombings were the deadliest bombings in the history of Ireland. Most of the victims were young women. The "Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) a loyalist paramilitary group claimed responsibility for the bombings in 1993. There were allegations taken seriously that elements of the British State Security Forces helped the UVF. The coordination and expertise were well above what the UVF could achieve without error.
@@johndoe-ss9bz Exactly, both sides committed atrocities, broke the law, carried out 'false flag' operations - all part of the 'Dirty War'.
A very good BBC documentary examined the conflict & there was compelling evidence that the first bombing in the Province was by Loyalists paramilitaries.
@@johndoe-ss9bz It was Nairac.
@@TheCatBilbo :: The North of Ireland does not have a tribal past. The Crown did not want a repeat of the "Plantation of Munster" in which the Planted Anglo-Normans assimilated with the Native-Irish until they became more Irish than the Irish themselves. To-day their names are all over Munster and Leinster Provinces. They do not call themselves "Munster-English" or "Leinster-English". The Plantation of Ulster on confiscated lands had a strong Social Engineering Element to make the "Scott Tenant Farmers" be in constant conflict with the remaining Irish Native Catholics that were not forced to go to "Hell or Connaught"!
Diarmait Mac Murchada .. opened the door towards Anglo Irish troubles. It dates back centuries .
Those who have died, young people on both sides . And the politicians grew older and wealthier.
Referring to what went off over there as 'troubles' is like calling WW2 ' a bit of a falling out". It wasn't 'troubles' it was terrorist activity. To call it 'troubles' is demeaning to every soldier and police officer who died in the course of their duty
Yeah right💀💀💀💀
@@danbreen6601 no problem, we'll send over a few pairs of wellies for you. We'll even put L and R on them so you can wear them on the right feet....
That "Headline"comment hardly recognises(or chooses to ignore)the history and backdrop to all of this.
.Of course these were heinous crimes,but hundreds of yrs of oppression could only lead to a certain kind of violent response.
.But for some reason so many people were surprised!
And a british soldier murdering an unarmed 11 year old child is "terrorist activity" too i guess?
It was an awful horrible war with victims on all sides. Many atrocities were committed by each side.
There is trauma that exists within each community involved and each family lives with grief and loss.
To keep the hate and distrust alive is incredibly sad and is destructive.
I hope a long lasting genuine peace can be achieved.
RIP all those who died.
With the hours of emotional sweat that went into the peace efforts of The Good Friday Agreement in the 90'sin mind, it seems counter productive to drudge up old news of attacks from back in the 1970's.
Pauline Farrell same as prosecuting veterans for things that happened years ago . The past is the past you can't keep dragging it up.
Most people have worked out by now division is the order of the day. let's keep dredging up the past, let's keep pointing out the divisions & NEVER let people heal, move on & embrace a new beginning. There is none of that & never will be, keep opening old wounds & let's create new gaping ones. Keep everybody in their respective tribes, ideologies & worldview while the political class, their masters & the media hacks consolidate their power. authority & keep enriching themselves while the brainwashed sheep keep fighting among themselves.
These patterns are repeated everywhere, every aspect of society. White versus Black, Christian versus Muslim, Young versus Old, Rich versus Poor, Left versus Right & so on & so on.
Until such times enough people wake up & say enough things will never change for the better.
@@kevinadamson7571 Yes ... true ... Saville Inquiry into Bloody Sunday was a disgrace blaming soldiers for those 14 terrorist death was just ridiculous ... !!!
@@kevinadamson7571 And you would hold that same view if it was one of your relatives who had been murdered?.....Just let bygones be bygones?
@@jamesjoseph7508 yes it isn't going to bring anybody back so why hold onto it .
Truly thorough in his work Darragh is thanks bbc.
The dogs in the street know who done it ffs
The dogs in the street that'll be D Company then!
And Gerry Adams?
Like a lot of disgusting acts of “Terror”, this completely backfired and only made things much worse for the very people it claimed to be Liberating. It also inspired the formation of the “Tartan” Gangs.
What were the tartan gang/gangs???????
@@LiamHickey2967 ruclips.net/video/Ycw5ZjP0-n0/видео.html This was one, there were quite a few different localised versions in Northern Ireland, with 1000’s of young members.
@@lextalonis839 thank you for the link
@@lextalonis839 : The "6-county Statelet" is a "Failed State" incapable of modern Non-Sectarian Governance. The "2-State Solution" for the de-colonization of the "Colony of Ireland" was a "FAILURE" from inception. Just like most borders drawn up in former colonies creating problems that exist to this day.
@@johndoe-ss9bz Aye, maybe so but Northern Ireland is a truly lovely place to live. The reference people appear to have about the North is completely wrong. Like Afghanistan, and due to it’s geographical location, it has had folks coming and going, fighting, invading and claiming this and that for 1000’s of years. From Vikings to Berbers we have had the lot. Only the Romans were too scared to have a go! So notions of “Failed States” etc really are a bit limited and the kind of mental cul de sacs that offer no solution. So what what you suggest?
Kingsmill was one of the most horrifying acts carried out by Republicans throughout the Troubles. Disgusting
Why did any soldier went to Northern Ireland in the middle of the "troubles". I grew up with the news pictures every evening. Who the f goes there???
RIP. Thats a beautiful monumemt for the three lads.
WATP We Adore The Pope ?
@@jacquiewalton1996 Sorry youve lost me there.
@@ourwilliam2405 Not surprising
@@jacquiewalton1996 Just couldnt help yourself, could you? I hope you find peace of mind one day.
@@ourwilliam2405 Thank you Father
Im ashamed to see images of Scottish soldiers occupying and brutalising Irish people on their own soil. Disgusting behaviour and quite frankly , any Scotsman behaving like that deserves what he gets.
But you see, it's not me, it's not my family
In your head, in your head, they are fightin'
With the their tanks and their bombs and their bombs and their guns
In your head, in your head, they are cryin'
Sums up the futility. And how some people turn a blind eye to murder when it doesn't affect them
The Undefeated Army🇮🇪
I have to wonder why they weren't restricted to post in the middle of a Terror War?
A war for Catholic Suppression, in a Sectarian Statlet, Catholics were denied a Fair and Equal "Political Solution. They were called Papists by Orange Leaders and Murdered for just been born a Catholic in North-East Ireland. Barbarian-Governance.
Thank god these days are behind us .
They are not behind us,IRELAND DEVIDED WILL NEVER BE AT PEACE,
@@kennymartin3416 and we will stay part of the union god save the queen
@@danielspillett5393 what union do you speak of,, ?? A country infested with the very people you tried and failed to conquer, they followed u home, your little Briton has become a reality,,the queen you claim rules your life is so inbred it's only a matter of time before she too dissapeares,, keep up your stupid royal charade,
@@kennymartin3416
Only a little bit bigoted
@@Drifty40 based on FIRST HAND prosecution by your relatives,i have good reason to be. If I were u I would start apologizing to all the people you country terrorized.and still actively engaging in same..
Monkiesocks56 👍molto interessante, grazie. Sorry I don't speak English..
Imagine if the allies went for a few off duty pints down the local somewhere in Afghanistan ?!
Effectively. The fact that the IRA command would say that "we should only fight while they are in uniform" explains why the war was settled by a truce rather than victory or defeat. The idea that hostile soldiers would wander off base into active combat zones and expect to be treated as welcome... I seriously have a hard time understanding that level of "awareness" of what they are doing there.
Strange how they all claim to believe in a religion that has a commandment "though shalt not kill"
Neither Ian Paisley nor Gerry Adams will ever wash the blood on their hands. Too many were killed on account and on behalf of these 'godly' men.
Tragic stories of conflict on both sides, a lot of Scottish don't realise the scoti are originally from Ireland and moved from the western Isles across what is now Scotland I'm not sure but I think the picts were the native people and blended with each other over centuries.
History is mad really
no real proof that they didnt settle in the west of Scotland and Ireland at the same time .
@@donalkinsella4380 I was interested in your'e 'unique' DNA comment, but the 'transvestism' bit sounds really well thought out on a scientific level. Do you have a link to that concept at all? I suppose your'e saying there are no 'trannies', nor has there ever been, in Ireland, or anywhere in the world wide Irish diaspora.
@@donalkinsella4380 It seems my reply, to your'e reply with the link attached, got wiped. I don't know why. I used an Aussie colloquialism for women, derived from our Irish ancestry, which is a female name that starts with S, in regards to men wearing their clothes. I think thats what did it, because apparently thats offensive now. Then your'e Basque reply arrived, so I'll try again. The example given in the link is happening, or trying to be made to happen, in many places all over the place, not just in the land of Scots. Men are also wearing 'women's' (this was where the S word was) clothes, hell west and crooked. I hardly think that 'Scotland is famous for giving the world transvestism' as you imply, it just seems like a lazy put down to me, when it's been around for centuries. As for the Basque thing, I guess it boils down to linguistics. Theres no link between Irish and Basque. If anything, Irish is more related to Breton, in NW France. In fact Breton, Welsh and Cornish are closely related, while Irish, Scots and Manx are closely related. The two groups have things in common, but none of them have links to Basque. I guess a huge DNA study would need to be done, and not really rely on your'e, 'it is incredible just how similar they are to us' theory.
@@donalkinsella4380 I see you got that post with the kilt thing, that is the post I thought got wiped. I don't have it on my feed. Anyway how was I wrong? If you can read and comprehend English, you'll see I was talking about language and apparently there is no link between the two. I then said DNA studies would need to be done to prove it. So I wasn't discounting it, moron. I just wasn't going with your'e really 'scientific' study of, I've been to the Basque country, they're a lot like us, bullshit! The link you posted said there was some shared DNA with the Basques, but it also said there is stuff which is the same as the Scots, Welsh, and Bretons. So theres Celt AND Basque. It doesn't make you 'Basque', or the Basques 'Irish'. Obviously a few 'Basque' type folks made it to Ireland, interbred with, then were totally overwhelmed by, the Celts. Hence there is none of their language left in the Irish language, which was my original point. I just love your'e pathetically childish jibe about 'the zoo', by the way.
@@donalkinsella4380 Also in the article you sent, it states that most modern day Irish are mostly related to folks from NW France (Bretons) and folks from western Norway (Vikings). So like most people, your'e a mix of many races. Yet you have your romantic Basque/Irish thing happening, meanwhile being in total denial of the huge amount of Celt/Norse genes you share with the hated Scots or the Welsh, Manx, Cornish or the most reviled of the lot, the English!!
May these days be gone forever. I live in North America as a Scottish immigrant. and funnily enough the Irish and Scots get on great when they are each outside of their countries of birth!
We share a common culture, much of which revolves around alcohol and music.
The Scots and Irish get on fine anywhere as long as one side aren't in the other's land with rifles
@@seanmacuaiteir437 I'm not so sure, things may be changing, but I've met Scots who immigrated to my country, especially Protestants, who are unbelievably sectarian. They hate Scottish Catholics, and of course Irish Catholics. This hatred between the two camps has been evident with some Scot, and the odd Irish, backpackers I've met here as well. I also visited Glasgow in the eighties and couldn't believe the quite casual, accepted, sectarian hatred. I know that was awhile ago, and you and the OP were talking about getting on in other places. Just thought I'd mention it.
@@warrenmilford1329 : Well Said!
You've obviously never been to either Northern Ireland or Scotland. If you think the both cultures revolve much around booze and drink than you live in cloud cuckoo land.
@@warrenmilford1329 :: Catholic Irish, Catholic Scots, Church of Ireland and Church of England and Irish and England Jewry all work together and get along fine with ZERO-SECTARIANISM in all aspects of governance, sports and commerce, and community.
Ahhh, The Troubles. So aptly named.
don't look now, but World War 3 is looming, What can we call that?
Troubles is the word the politicians use, I served 5 tours of duty there, we soldiers called it the dirty war.
I feel sad those young lads were killed.They were kids.Also killed by kids their own age or not much older
Murdered by a 36 year old ex-Para.......
37 weeks is the traininmg course once at the Infantry training regiment, Catterick garrison, north yorkshire, England, U.K. The line infantry is 26 weeks, the 5 guards regiments 28 weeks and the Parachute Regiment 30 weeks. Not part of the British Army , but part of the royal Navy, the Corps of Royal Marines do 33 weeks, The RAF regiment of the RAF do 32 weeks initial training.
So what did u get a medal😂😂😂
Burn in hell 🔥🔥🔥🔥
If you invade someone else's country you must accept the risk. Troops out.
Fact
is it OK to threaten Russia today then, and risk destroying the planet?
@@rabsmiff Oh, you think NOT making consequences for the Russians will stop freakazoids like Putin from destroying the world? Ask Neville Chamberlain how that worked for him.
@@lanewoods9420 the Americans are too afraid to risk a nuclear War with Russia, they have abandoned the rest of Europe to the mercy of Putin and they are prepared to sacrifice the whole of Europe, including Britain and Ireland just so long as they [the USA] do not get dragged into the mess they partly started.
@@rabsmiff You're pretty quick to run and jump in the deep end, aren't you?
My boss drove us from Mallusk to Belfast, but via Ligoniel.
We stopped at the small monument to the 3 soldiers.
My boss for some reason smiled and said "honeypot".
An army that shouldn't of been there ..Simple
The biggest antagonist in all of this was the British government.
As per usual.
Definitely
I haven't seen to the end of this program yet, but something tells me at the end of this trail is going to emerge evidence that O'Kane was an asset of British intelligence. Considering his history in the paras that wouldn't surprise me, and it's the psychopathic types, after all, who seem to make their way into that particularly ironic line of work (ahem, Stakeknife).
Tommy's
Complete
Cowardice - the Hallmark of the I.R.A.
and the British
@tom the cat123 read a history book dipshit
Very interesting, yet incredibly sad documentary. Two things come to mind: (1) The pain suffered by, and the lack of justice for, the victims' families; and (2) The cowardly executions of these young men. No matter what your opinion on 'The Troubles' in Northern Ireland or what side you take (if any), this was completely unnecessary and, in my opinion, had a negative effect on the PIRA's propaganda. Important to note the view of their own intelligence officer, and Dublin solicitor, who basically condemned the action.
It didn't though did it, why because internment was introduced and resulted in an increase in IRA recruitment.
Some of the actions carried out by the Provisionals during the war were difficult to stand over and justify. On the whole the campaign was ultimately justified as it eventually brought the British to the table and the GFA.
@@paulthomas2178, Debate is always a good thing. I understand your sentiments on internment and the rule of law. In a democracy, the detention of an individual without trial cannot be justified and, undoubtedly, that had an impact on PIRA recruitment. However, I believe that you're in agreement when you say, "Some of the actions carried out by the Provisionals during the war were difficult to stand over and justify [sic]." As for the whole campaign being justified, statistics dictate that predominantly innocent lives were lost on both sides of the divide. That in itself is impossible to justify.
@@paulphilipempey1 what i would say is that volunteers consented to be put into harms way by their commanders and to be harmed by the enemy.
Intentional killing of civilians can't be justified, accidental killing of civilians can be excused.
I really do appreciate your opinion. I'm in agreement up to the word 'justified', i.e. I don't agree with the accidental killing of civilians being excusable.
@@paulthomas2178 :: "Internment Without Trial" was responsible for a massive increase in volunteers for the "Provisional IRA". And "Bloody Sunday" in Derry had every young Irishman in the 6-county colony looking for Arms to Fight for Irish Catholic FREEDOM in IRELAND.
Why were Scottish solders in north ireland?
Because the alternative for these lads was going down a coal mine until their health was broken.
Because Scotland and Northern Ireland are both part of the United Kingdom, (along with England and Wales). So those Scots were on their on soil, so to speak, as part of the UK's armed forces.
@Mike Rotch Your'e right of course mate. No doubt their families wished they'd stayed 'on', their own Scottish soil. The whole situation of 'the troubles' was a tragedy all round.
@Mike Rotch Bellend.
Theres the question i just asked. Was it deliberate antagonism?
great investigations,best i think,Bill
I wish people would really find out for themselves why all this shit didnt have to happen. Or atleast find out what caused it to happen in the first place. I am English born and bread and all i will say is it may surprise you. Instead of doing what i did growing up and listen to the bbc and the MOD.
@jimfirstname jim :: During the "Black and Tan" war of terror on the People-of Ireland they were rated for their terror "The Worst" were "North of Ireland" Black and Tans, the next Worse were Scottish Black and Tans' and the better behaved were the English and Welsh. The British Army was respected as soldiers.
Here Here ! I've been trying to wrap my head around this long running topic and it's been a wee bit slow going. This has elements similar to the American Civil War, but for different reasons. The British part in all of this just makes it more complicated.
@@ProbablyTooLoud I'll be brief. Ulster is one of the four traditional Irish provinces in the north. There are nine counties there, six of which make up Ulster. In 1609 Protestant Scots and English arrived there to take over land previously owned by Gaelic Irish nobility. By the times of the troubles ('68 to '98) the population was split roughly half Protestant and half Catholic. Since Ireland seceded from the UK in 1922 and became a Free State it has been an island in two parts. Ireland, mostly Catholic, and Ulster that remained as part of the UK. The ridiculous thing is that there were paramilitary forces on both sides, for example the Protestants had the following: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF); Ulster Protestant Volunteers (UPV); Ulster Defence Association (UDA); Red Hand Commando (RHC); Ulster Resistance (UR) and the Loyalist Volunteer Force (LVF) carrying out sectarian killings, but in the case of these Scottish soldiers they were out of uniform but still seen as British occupiers. At the beginning of the troubles the soldiers came as "peacekeepers" and were thanked by the Catholic people, but they very soon came to be seen as an occupying force. The British Army, made up of English, Irish, Scots, Welsh, Nepalese etc., etc, were seen as an enemy by the IRA (Irish Republican Army) who are also the Nationalists and Republicans, since their idea was and still is to join Eire (Southern Ireland) to Ulster (Northern Ireland). The point about this documentary which tries to give some peace to the families of the victims is that the Scottish are also a Gaelic people; the young British soldiers were also killed by an ex-British soldier and I think I'm right in saying they were also Catholics. Mate, that's it. I am English but grew up reading about the troubles every single day of my life in the newspapers and believe you me, as a kid it took time to understand it all. The RUC, by the way were the Royal Ulster Constabulary (Police) but were also seen as enemy by the PIRA. They've now been disbanded since the Good Friday Agreement which has hopefully put a stop to the troubles for good. To give you an idea, Scotland was also fiercely divided on Catholic and Protestant religious lines, an example is the Celtic (Catholic) versus Rangers (Protestant) soccer rivalry, but these days interfaith marriage is extremely common, and with the decline in the Christian faith in any case a lot of it makes no sense at all. Hope that puts you in the picture and if anyone else reads this I'm not getting involved in any political arguments. I'm white English Anglo-Saxon Anglican C of E, and my partner is Mexican Catholic. The kids get told to do what's good for them and when the time comes they can make up their own minds about religion.
@@jonniebyford well said I'm from the republic of Ireland and my understanding of the troubles would be very much the same as yours
@@Minime163 Ta very much fella. All the best to ya.
God bless all so sad in all cases in all sides sad times
That mammy should keep her young boys at home instead of letting them off to Ireland with an invading army.
It is this regurgitation of atrocities that fuels the future murders of other innocents !
Truth and Justice are the foundation of civilization. "Truth and Justice" for all the people in the Government Of the People By the People For the People.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it...", as I believe George Santayana said
Which soldiers murdered the innocent men in Derry research that
Can't you just tell us
@@bigboaby555 :: The Catholic Irish in the 6-counties of North East suffered the most deaths from killings by the Army, the RUC, the UDR. the UDA. the UDF, and the SAS.
@@johndoe-ss9bz why are you telling me that ??
@@johndoe-ss9bz
Do a bit of research on Google.......the IRA and its splinter groups murdered more people in Northern Ireland than anyone else.
@@Drifty40 Not true Dont check Google check the facts
It's not good to have Scottish soldiers armed and walking around the streets of Belfast without the permission of 85% of the Irish people no more than it would be acceptable to see Irish soldiers walking around the streets of Glasgow without the permission of the Scottish people.
17, 18 and 23 just kids, so sad.
@Shane Gallagher Difference being they were murdering scum and well known players.
Kids involved in the occupation of a foreign land.
war never ends happy just incase you thought it did .
@Shane Gallagher :: Catholic lives taken are treated at "Lesser Value" lives and don't count as much in Sectarian Governance supported by the British Armed Forces.
@big Feet :: Sad but true. Not just the Catholic Church but Government Institutions and Charities like the Scouts etc.
All this is very pointless. The families need to point their disdain at England for their needless oppression of Northern Ireland. Time to say farewell. England never should have been there. The lives that were lost is on England
Was it deliberate government policy to send Scottish regiments to patrol in areas where they would antagonize the local catholic population? If so the government should bear some of the responsibility of the outcome.
Maybe. It was 8 months after the rape of the Falls. Another turning point. Different regiment though.
Signing up for a warzone has it's downsides.
It wasn't a warzone
If Paddy O'Kane was an IRA-killer psychopath, note where he got his training - the Parachute Regiment. Northern Irish history is just so fucked up.
If you take anything away from this let it be this...Paddy O'Kane ex SAS murdered those 3 young Scottish soldiers!
The book was ok but all fiction
Wasn't the female driver once married to the Irish actor Stephen Rea? I seem to recall it was either her or her sister M.D drove many people to their deaths.
What I'll take away from this is that the ira were murdering cowardly bastards
I cant bring myself to feel sorry for a single Brit soldier even after all these years when we have so many dead of our own. TAL
Hey Noel, why not? After all, how many of those 'Brit' soldiers who died - just following their orders, doing their jobs, avoiding the Dole queues - actually understood exactly what they were fighting for or defending?
As a 'Brit' I feel betrayed; given that the supposed stance of the British Government throughout was one of not negotiating with 'terrorists' when all along - and as good men and women were dying on both 'sides' - negotiations were, in fact going on!
FFS, the root of much of these 'troubles' were the invasion of Ireland by Cromwell's lot - or so we are led to believe. Why can the Irish people not draw a line under the troubles of the past and move on?
Please, don't expect me to waste my time (I address this to outside viewers of this post not to the original poster) trying to defend/condone the British position in this mess.
To all the casualties on both/all sides - RIP....
@@georgebuller1914 We'll draw a line under it when you're gone from our country once and for all. You think you're being all magnanimous but you're not, you're the same as it ever was.Brits Out
@@georgebuller1914 Thank you for proving my point with your ethnic slur TAL FTQ
@@nowleta And 'Brit' - as you use it - isn't? That was why I chose to use the word I did. And for the benefit of the less enlightened on here, could you please expand on 'FTQ'?
there is a nuclear war on the horizon, which puts everything here into some sort of perspective.
A transcript should be displayed.
I knew Paddy O Kane as he was a member of alcoholics anonymous & I often met him at meetings in Limerick,Shannon and Ennis.
I remember him dying from cancer.
He always struck me as a very calm,relaxed and quiet gentleman who was always helping people in AA.
The fact he died means I can break his anonymity.
I was shocked hearing his name mentioned in this documentary as
I had no idea of his Republican background or these murders he allegedly committed.
I know he was sober a long time and good on him.
RIP old chap
.
Fraud
God bless you, the 3 lads 🇬🇧
Madness ! Brothers & "Cousins" All ! It approaches the Insanity of the American "Civil War".
Let go and walk forward.
☯️
If this happened to the Argyles such as in Yemen Mitch would have gone out and taken Belfast 🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴
A so-called "soldier" who shoots anybody, whether another real soldier, or just a normal non-commissioned civilian in the back, is a shameful coward and a sick murderer and most of all never a soldier, whatever side he is on and whatever his kinship, religion or political beliefs. A real soldier faces his adversary on equal terms! He is one that neither needs to come from behind, nor is he one who kills from a distance and who travels mainly in the dark shunning close combat.
When fighting a force bigger, stronger, and better equipped than yourself you fight however you have to. The world plays by rules other than the naive ones in your head.
What have you been sniffing? Stick to the airfix kits, but lay off the glue.
What about the 30 million Indians the British murdered through artificial famines and civilian massacres?
What about the Burmese natives oppressed and killed by your British soldiers?
What about the Opium War and countless plunder that you inflicted on the Chinese? What about the treatment of aborigines in Australia by the British and their descendants?
What about the colonial killings and widespread mistreatment of Africans in your so called colonies?
@@pfdrtom So you take 3 boys not long out of school torture them and execute them,Must be an Irish thing .
What about Gibraltar? 3 ? Where was there due process? BBC?
What about Gibraltar ? 3 boys out for a drink compared with an IRA ASU out to carry out a bombing which would have killed dozens of foreign civilians who had nothing to do with the conflict ? As usual double standards !!
3 coward terrorists? are you condoning terrorism? remember, the only good terrorist is a dead one.....duh'edd'duh as in no longer breathing, no longer able to kill innocents and oh' no more silly balaclava wearing.
No. The Spanish had tracked McCann, Savage and Farrell. They were angry when they were shot because they expected the British to arrest them. They said a good terrorist is not one who is dead but one who is behind bars. The families took the British Government to the European Court of Human Rights and won their case.
Colonialism left a path of destruction behind it in every Country effected.
I feel sorry for them and the family's .. But at the same time they shouldn't have been there
And left Northern Ireland to the IRA...
Ian Soutryer yes they should have left Ireland to the Irish !
@@christianmccann7884 ...thereby surrendering the protestants to the IRA?
Ian Soutryer they are more than welcome to join a inclusive United Ireland ... Like the Republic of Ireland in the 1920 s ..
@@iansoutryer3189 What do you think the colours on the Irish flag represent? The green represents Catholics, the white represents peace, while the orange represents Protestants.
PIRA 'Honey traps' in the province happened more than once.
The crying game was actually realler than I thought haha
If this is true Paddy O Kane sounds like the republican answer to robin Jackson
More the reverse I would say, as O Kane preceded Jackson a little bit.