When the AI is so smart that it doesn't need you... - Dragon Age Origins
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- Опубликовано: 14 мар 2024
- I had a little fun with the AI again in Dragon Age Origins, so I created some fully self-sufficient AI parties, and took down some of the biggest bosses in the game.
The AI in Origins is just so awesome, you can do so may cool thing, it made my Warden salty as hell. lol.
Here is what I did:
I made Leliana, Wynne and Alistair take down Flemeth.(60sec)
I made Wynne, Morrigan and Zevran take down Gaxkang.(17sec)
I made Oghren, Sten, and Alistair take down Gaxkang.(30sec)
I made Oghren, Sten, and Alistair take down the High dragon.(40sec)
I made Oghren, Sten, and Wynne take down the High Dragon.(58sec)
I made Alistair solo Gaxkang.(62sec)
I made Zevran solo Gaxkang.(37sec)
I made Wynne solo Flemeth.(76sec - slowpoke...)
I made Leliana solo Flemeth.(51sec) 
Игры
Some impressive AI action coupled with my mental retardation. Enjoy!
I decided to play with the AI a bit, while I'm finishing my Awakening playthrough. Thing is, the AI kicked so much butt, it made my Warden salty as hell. lol.
I made Oghren, Sten, and Alistair take down the High dragon.(40sec)
I made Alistair solo Gaxkang.(62sec)
I made Wynne, Morrigan and Zevran take down Gaxkang.(17sec)
I made Zevran solo Gaxkang.(37sec)
I made Leliana, Wynne and Alistair take down Flemeth.(60sec)
I made Oghren, Sten, and Alistair take down Gaxkang.(30sec)
I made Wynne solo Flemeth.(76sec - slowpoke...)
I made Oghren, Sten, and Wynne take down the High Dragon.(58sec)
I made Leliana solo Flemeth.(51sec)
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Party members: We dont need you
The darkspawn chronicles: Yeah, get out of here!
You make me feel like I play this game wrong. But in a good way.
I don't think I've seen AI tactics THIS advanced in any other game other than DA:O. And it makes the game all the more enjoyable
Pillars of eternity 2 had similar. But i can't remember anything else.
If I remember it right, DA2 had an even more robust and specific set of instructions to be queued -- a pity the game was much, much inferior in basically everything else.
@@emmanuel1337It's one of the things I felt DA2 actually did better than Origins. It was more customizable and had more preset actions you can use. I don't think origins had a setup for group heals without using mods.
FF12 had a very similar tactical ai system.
its the peak of build games.. nothing compares like this anymore
I always feel lazy to spend 20 min assigning proper tactics to my companions
And then I proceed to waste a ton of time on assigning orders from the pause menu because my party can't do shit in a serious fight without manual control
Look at it this way: every second you spend in the tactics menu will reward you with hours of great gameplay experience. :)
Ohgren - "You're USELESS!"
Warden - "I'm not! And you're DRUNK!"
Ohgren - "Yes. I AM drunk. But tomorrow I will be sober & YOU will STILL be useless!"
Wynne - "Would you like me to HEAL that BURN?"
Very entertaining (and FUNNY) video. Nice work!
Damn! Art. I just sit here smiling.
Kinda curious why they didn't bring this back in later game. The ai was crazy advanced.
What are you talking about?) There are a lot of builds with AI team in the inquisition) And it is much more effective, than in the origins)
@@fraisertinko Well, the AI builds in Inquisition(at least the ones I built) require very deep knowledge/lots of testing about the game mechanics. You really need to know what works with it and what does not, because the menu gives you next to nothing.
Enable.
Disable.
Prefer.
That is pathetic, and relies much more on random chance and the deep involvement of masterworks, than the Tactical Menu in Origins/DA2. In Origins, you can set the skills up to be used exactly when you want them to be used.
You can't set Sera up for example to smash the Flask of Frost when she is surrounded by at least 2 enemies. She will smash it the second combat starts if it is set to "Preferred". Which obviously makes you lose lots of seconds from its duration while she gets to the enemy. Can she still work this way? Yes. Is she as effective as the guys in Origins? No.
This is just one example about the accuracy of the AI builds in Origins vs Inquisition. The other reason why Inquisition AI builds work is because of the "bombastic" nature of the skills/spell. So Fire Mine can nuke enemies like crazy, Frost Rune can paralyze crowds, etc. So you have lots of options, for cc with those spells/skills, and then you can combo them with the team by simply putting detonators on "preferred".
There are no Cross-Class combos in Origins, nor masterworks, yet you can make the AI do much more sophisticated things.
Also, try turning on Friendly Fire. You will end up having 2 or 3 skills on your AI party, simply because Inquisition was never meant to have FF. The AI just can't handle it. Plus you lack a ton of spells/skills compared to Origins. In Origins, you can't disable FF on Nightmare. The game and the AI was designed to be able to handle it.
In Origins and DA2, you can set up your team to function in almost every situation you face. To say that the one in Inquisition is much more effective than the one in Origins, is... interesting.
@@AKisHerceg so you judge ai only by the possibility to create a lot of "if-then" commands?) Good AI - is the AI that can operate effectively without you creating dozens "if-then" commands) in the inquisition you just tell the ai "you can use this and cannot use this" and AI will start to work) in the origins you should describe all situations in which ai should use their abilities, otherwise they will just use auto attack) Which AI is better? Obviously the one that requires less efforts to make it work effectively)
Regarding friendly fire - since you mentioned that bad inquisition wasn't build for friendly fire and great origins was build for friendly fire, then can you please show AI origins build that will use fireball and other aoe abilities effectively and without hitting the party?) And also could you please tell me how in origins to set up rogues to always go behind an enemy and perform backstabs instead of hitting an enemy in the face?) I am sure that great AI which you described should easily allow to do it)
Regarding your "interesting" in the end - you can openly say your insults) I am not easily offended) but I don't like ephemisms)
@@fraisertinko I did not insult you nor did I want to(for what?). Interesting means interesting in my book. The three dots are meant to symbolize that your opinion gave me "pause". I consider it pretty interesting(meaning interesting) to claim that Inquisition AI is better than Origins, so it gave me pause to process the thought itself.
Plus this is the internet. Everyone insults everyone left and right, with no consequences. I don't know you, you don't know me. If my purpose was to insult, I would have insulted you. It wasn't. Text can translate differently I guess, but if we would be talking face to face, I don't think you would have taken it this personally. So, if it sounded like an insult, I apologize, I did not mean to insult you.
"so you judge ai only by the possibility to create a lot of "if-then" commands?"
Yes. Well, not just "if-then" commands, but basically commands that would work in more and more situation. That is how AIs evolve. Every AI is programmed, they can't think for themselves. Yet.
I think you misunderstand this: the AI in both games are bad on their own. They are designed that way on purpose. Because the AI needs to be built around the build that you are creating for your party members.
However, in Inquisition with the removal of the situational commands, your option to make the AI build effective, is severely limited(it is narrowed down to what the devs were not too lazy to place). There is no question about this. I even demonstrated this with an example. Literally the only thing you can set up is how "often" they can use their skills with zero specification. So if you want them to use the skill in a specific situation, too bad. They already fired it off five seconds ago, and now it's on cooldown.
"and AI will start to work"
But that is the problem. In most cases, it will either work less effectively or won't work at all. They will start using the skills once you enable them. That's it(if you are looking for that in Origins, then just pick one from the pre-programed AI setup list: "Scrapper", "Supporter", "Defender" etc). Is that what you consider better? It is basically the same as setting your AI in Origins as "Enemy/Self - Any - *skill". That is the most advance AI command in Inquisition which is the "preferred" flag. It does not get any better than that(the pre-programmed setup in Origins is actually more advanced than that - not to mention every party member comes with a pre-programmed AI based on what skills they have when you recruit them, they don't just auto-attack).
A great example is Combat Roll, Fade Step or even better, "Evade" - the AI has no idea how to use them because you can only set up "how often" the AI should use the skills and not "when". In DA2 for example, I set up Varric to use Evade when he is being attacked by a melee attack, which results in him jumping away when someone is attacking him in melee. Works great! In Inquisition, I set it up to be used often(preferred), and Varric does nothing but jumping into the middle of crowds, and triggering every Ice Mine on the battlefield getting himself killed. It is the same skill in both games and it only works right in one.
The AI in Origins, is great because you are the one who programs it and you will have tons of options. Basically it is great because of YOU. Not on its own. It is that simple. In Inquisition, the AI is less effective because although you are still the one who programs it, you have way less options and their own "brain" is nowhere near as complex as the laundry list of commands that you can give to your party in Origins.
Friendly Fire: Origins has three or four times as many spells as Inquisition, which means that you will have more spells available. In Inquisition with Friendly Fire(not counting the specialization spells), you can give your mages Barrier, Winter's Grasp, Flashfire, Revival, Dispel and Energy Barrage. That's is. Everything else will hurt your party. In Origins, because of the amount of spells you have, you will still have at least 30 different spells at your disposal even on Nightmare which comes with FF. This is because one was designed with FF in mind, the other was not.
However, if you want an example even in this scenario on how the AI can be better in Origins, here it is:
If I want my mage not to hit my party with a Fire Ball, I can actually set it up how far my mage should throw it. So I set it up as "Enemy - Target at range - Long". Boom! My mage now throws the Fire Ball far away from my party, so unless I'm silly enough to just run ahead right into it, we will be fine. Another option is this: "Enemy - Uses attacking type - Ranged". This way my mage will never throw the ball at melee guys who are close to my group. She will target ranged enemies only who are usually far away from the group. Contrast this with Inquisition, where the only thing I can say to my mage "use that Fire Mine often/sometimes/never". And hope that they will not blast my group with it in the process.
"I am sure that great AI which you described should easily allow to do it"
Is that sarcasm? Great AI does not mean perfect. Positioning is one thing that is missing from the tactics menu in Origins, which is why I made fun of it in this very video. Is there positioning in Inquisition? I mean, that game came out years after this one and according to you it has much better AI.
Backstabs do not need a good AI. They need a miracle lol. You see, the way the game works(every game basically) is that enemies are attacking from "their front", which means they need to face you to be able to attack you. So the way the devs intended backstabs is this: Warrior and rogue attacks target, warrior taunts(or just have higher armor rating), enemy turns towards the warrior, rogue can now backstab. A rogue is an exploiter, not a face to face kinda guy. Which means that they are meant to stab the enemy in the back while the enemy is occupied with someone else. This obviously does not work if you have one rogue vs one enemy. If you have a single rogue who is commanded to keep chasing the back of said enemy, and that enemy has no other target, than this will result in the rogue keep chasing the enemies' back, while the enemy is constantly trying to turn towards the rogue. Which is why I think backstabs were removed from future games. Basically backstabs won't work if you don't have other party members(it is a party based game after all), and this can't be fixed by the AI. This why Coup De Grace was implemented in the game as a passive so rogues can backstab even from the front.
So to sum it up, yes, I definitely think the AI is better in Origins. Why? Because you can set it up exactly how you want it to behave. Every difficult situation calls for different tactics and you have the option to be prepared for that in Origins, so your team AI can kick ass. In Inquisition, you have to rely on whatever the devs placed in, which is not much, other than that all you can say is "do this often, do that less, don't do that".
Damn
Personal shots fired. Man played the game so many times he remembered every party member story. Damn
You out did youreslf man 😂😂
Rofl. This is the shit I didn't know I needed today. XD
I love the banter you made, was hilarious.
Thank you for hilarious dialogues. 😂
I fully forgot how good the AI can be with the right tactics, i need to mess around with it the tactics more.
He's still needed... Someone has to take all the credit.
That's why Dragon Age Origin is such a timeless masterpiece.
They kept dumbing down the AI / Tactical aspect of the sequels in favour of more "action" orientated game-play.
Ok that was awesome! And those lines were so good aswell lol :D
Good job mate!
AMAZING :D Love your channel so much!!
Thanks! :)
These are neat little vids
my fav channel
Thank you! :)
i hope in dragon age dread wold they would bring back the dual blade warrior 😔
Seriously cool!
You found unused (cut content) banter ORIGINally meant to be there XD
Sten really deserved mocking about his lost sword :)
That dwarf who has Sten's Sword does anyone know how to fight/kill him?! He has really cool looking sword according to fandom information.🤔🤔
Dwynn? You can get his sword from killing him(if you fail the intimidation check he will attack you when you enter his house), or letting him die during the battle(you can kill him with friendly fire as well during the fight).
His sword looks good but it is pretty weak. It's a tier 3 steel sword and the enchantment gives 2% magic res. The Keening Blade has the same appearance and its made of dragonbone, plus it has better enchantments. Maric's Sword also has the same appearance, but it has steal/gold color, same with Starfang, which has blue/steel color.
Maybe there's a way to buff it, to make killing Dywnn more rewarding mod and whatnot.
@@moby_justchillout1861 Nope, sadly you can't buff it. It always remains tier 3. You can put one rune in it. That's about it.
Removing customizable tactics was a huge miss from bioware.
Hi, thanks for the videos. Your videos have made me want to give dao a try :) I was wondering are there any must have mods for a first time playthrough in your opinion? Which mods do you usually use? thanks!
Must have mods? Well, I only use one, which is the Visual Annoyance Remover. For me it is a must have mod because without it the game not only crashes every few minutes, but the frame rate drops are also constant and super annoying. With this mod, you will no longer see the visual effect of the sustained abilities. That's it. I use no other mods. :)
@@AKisHerceg ok thanks! What about fix packs? I saw some people recommend that. Not needed? Basically I'm just looking for a vanilla experience so I'm not keen on mods. Just tyring to figure out if those fix packs are needed to prevent severe bugs.
@@ybducuybducu5061 Yes there are bugs but I don’t use fix packs for them, I just put up with them. It’s really up to you. I recommend you play through the game first without any mods. :)
I think when it comes to AI, it should allow both beginners and advanced players to enjoy the game. Some just want the story, others would really want to test their gaming skills. Admittedly, i had to look up for guides online while playing the three games; I did not know how to set up tactics for rogue and warrior classes. Perhaps a tutorial on how to set up AI tactics would suffice.
Could you show the tactics?
I have AI tactics videos on my channel, these takedowns are using those.
Except Wynne vs Flemeth. There Wynne is basically using Vulnerability Hex with Affliction Hex, then smacks Flemeth with Winter's Grasp and Life Drain. Occasionally she uses Cone of Cold and Group Heal. I also made her use a Warmth Balm before the fight to boost her fire res. Because Flemeth is statics, all she does is spit Fire Balls at her, so it is a pretty easy AI takedown.
@@AKisHerceg Thanks for the reply, I will never forgive Bioware for removing the tatics system, this video is proof of how well it worked.
Could you do a tactics guide? 🥺
I have multiple tactics guide videos, these are basically(aside from one or two) using those. :)
@@AKisHerceg appreciated!
Origins AI and FF12 Gambit system are the best AI for rpgs. Nowadays instead of AI we have dummies running around not doing what they are supposed to.
Excelet vid man all that jokes in the same line of the personality of the charaters of the game thank u so much gor upload this 😂😂