A wonderful symphony. The first movement us quite slow here: however, it helps you appreciate the detail. Such driving rhythm and counterpoint. So full of energy. Deserves to be better known. My recording is the National orchestra of Wales (who did the whole Rubbra symphonic cycle). Nice to hear this alternative reading!
This slower tempo in the first movement allows suffocation and harrasing accentuations. The performance is absolutely terrific, with precise and spectacular brass.
@@davebarclay4429 Fortunately, we have plenty of great recordings of Bryden Thomson: Bax, Nielsen, Vaughan Williams, Walton, etc. My only regret, not having the full recordings of Bruckner's and Sibelius' symphonies
This is a real find for me. At the end, the unmistakable sound of Robert Simpson's voice. Simpson, apart from being a distinguished symphonic himself, was a BBC radio producer on Radio 3, the classical station. He had a programme called 'The Innocent Ear' and this is one of the works he played. A rarely heard piece would be broadcast and he would only tell us what it was when the piece was finished. At that time, I was intensely interested in Rubbra's music (and still am) and someone in the know told me Simpson was going to broadcast it (he specially commissioned the recording) and I managed to tape it on an old reel-to-reel machine, a recording since lost. Is this a recording of that broadcast? In that broadcast, he noted the symphony's 'dogged power', 'severity' and 'astringency'. He went on: 'It's rather curious that Britain in the 1930s produced three somewhat fierce symphonies; this one, Walton's First, and Vaughan Williams's Fourth. Some mystics think it was the war coming, though I don't see why three British composers needed some clairvoyant excuse for feeling a bit rough at that time'. [quoted from Edmund Rubbra: Symponist by Leo Black] That's typical of Simpson's dry and pointed humour. He was a friend of Rubbra and did his best to promote his music at the BBC at a time the classical music section was in the grip of narrow minded supporters of the avant garde.
Simpson's "The Proms and Natural Justice" - a short but powerful book - needs to be widely read and understood. This year (2024) is the sesquicentennial of the birth of the important Austro-Hungarian symphonist, Franz Schmidt, but not a note of his music will be heard at the Proms. However, there is a whole evening devoted to the "works" of Sam Smith.
Thank you very much! In this recording we hear the last bars in the fast tempo written in the score. The ritardando in Hickox' (fine) recording is an addition by Hickox.
Yes Gavin, Robert Simpson edited a paperback book entitled "The Symphony", in which he states that Rubbra's Symphony no. 3 is a near masterpiece and the Symphony no 4 IS a masterpiece. Rubbra has become one of my favorite English symphonists. I mention that in my book--"How to Fully Enjoy Classical Music-Vol. 1 "Orchestral".
+ Ralph Casale ... Purely for the record it was Harold Truscott who did the stating in that (excellent) Simpson-edited Pelican book. Not that I'm any Rubbra expert. Which other symphonies (and other works) would those on here who do know his work particularly recommend I wonder?
@@Phantomrasberryblowe I agree - I discovered the 7th many years ago and I still think it is extraordinary, especially the Passacaglia (though there are less wonderful bits elsewhere in the work). The 4th is supposed to be his masterpiece but it hasn't gripped me yet.
I do remember waiting a long time to be able to hear this symphony because of the negative comments about it in the 1950s Grove- that Rubbra had favored extended, concentrated linear writing and counterpoint over anything purely pleasing to the ear, or something - negative to the writer, I mean but very, very positive and intriguing to _me_!! - and as it is, the orchestration sounds fine to these ears anyway... The variations-or-sonata-form?? and fugue finale makes a terrific impact in Hickox' recording (as, in my honest opinion, does the rest) just near the start of it here, still listening... will edit in...)
I have the Chandos recording too, but there were a few broadcast (and unbroadcast...) performances before and after that one and I like being able to hear at least two recordings for comparison (unless the sound quality on one is SO poor as to destroy really necessary clarity, for instance- which is why e.g. I probably won't be returning to the older recording I have of Wellesz' symphony 8 again, unfortunately.) Hrm. Going to have to check the score (which NYPL and some others have- I think they have the Lengnick reprint of the original UE score...) - since there's a question after all- whether one is slow- or the other (too?) fast!...
I hope one day soon the current inexplicable enthusiasm for Bax's incoherent symphonies will be replaced by a greater appreciation of Rubbra's. Not his best by a long way, but there's a real symphonist at work here, for sure.
+tstsullivan Agree about Rubbra but I disagree with you that Bax's symphonies are 'incoherent'. A bit clunky at times, not towering masterpieces perhaps - but I have derived great enjoyment from their beauty, marvellous orchestration and brutal power, and I think quite a few others feel the same. 'Inexplicable enthusiasm' is a teeny bit patronising, isn't it?
one other comment- is it just identified as the BBC Symphony Orchestra? Nowadays that would be call for disambiguation on Wikipedia, Facebook or many another websites- ... hrm. cadensa bl uk lists recordings of this symphony in their archive by Hickox (on Chandos), Sargent (extract only), Charles Groves (from a complete or near-complete set of Rubbra symphonies taped for BBC broadcast, iirc- I wish US classical radio or television would do that for our best composers. I wish. I really do. But... anyways.), and a conductor-unidentified one with the "BBC Symphony Orchestra" (ah. Ok.) - maybe that's the one, Thomson identified on evidence available elsewhere. Hrm. I wonder if it is possible to find out the date too... :) I'll try sometime. Anyhow, thanks again much!!
I don't suppose there is much point replying 8 years later but "The BBC Symphony Orchestra" is the BBC's London-based orchestra and recognised as such by all music-loving Brits. The only other "BBC Symphony Orchestra" is the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra which is based in - surprise, surprise - Glasgow, Scotland. There are two other BBC Orchestras, the BBC Philharmonic and the BBC National Orchestra of Wales, but neither uses "Symphony" in its title.
Well, I don't think Thomson's version is the best, but Richard Hickox made a very good account of this work. I would respectively disagree that Rubbra's Symphony No 1 is 'terrible'.
![Edmund Rubbra: Symphony No 11 [Cleobury- BBC NSO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EoT_FZX3yHk/mqdefault.jpg)
A wonderful symphony. The first movement us quite slow here: however, it helps you appreciate the detail. Such driving rhythm and counterpoint. So full of energy. Deserves to be better known. My recording is the National orchestra of Wales (who did the whole Rubbra symphonic cycle). Nice to hear this alternative reading!
This slower tempo in the first movement allows suffocation and harrasing accentuations. The performance is absolutely terrific, with precise and spectacular brass.
@@Tracotel In other words a typical Bryden Thomson performance! He was almost criminally under-rated particularly in his native Scotland.
@@davebarclay4429 Fortunately, we have plenty of great recordings of Bryden Thomson: Bax, Nielsen, Vaughan Williams, Walton, etc.
My only regret, not having the full recordings of Bruckner's and Sibelius' symphonies
This is a real find for me. At the end, the unmistakable sound of Robert Simpson's voice. Simpson, apart from being a distinguished symphonic himself, was a BBC radio producer on Radio 3, the classical station. He had a programme called 'The Innocent Ear' and this is one of the works he played. A rarely heard piece would be broadcast and he would only tell us what it was when the piece was finished. At that time, I was intensely interested in Rubbra's music (and still am) and someone in the know told me Simpson was going to broadcast it (he specially commissioned the recording) and I managed to tape it on an old reel-to-reel machine, a recording since lost. Is this a recording of that broadcast?
In that broadcast, he noted the symphony's 'dogged power', 'severity' and 'astringency'. He went on: 'It's rather curious that Britain in the 1930s produced three somewhat fierce symphonies; this one, Walton's First, and Vaughan Williams's Fourth. Some mystics think it was the war coming, though I don't see why three British composers needed some clairvoyant excuse for feeling a bit rough at that time'. [quoted from Edmund Rubbra: Symponist by Leo Black] That's typical of Simpson's dry and pointed humour. He was a friend of Rubbra and did his best to promote his music at the BBC at a time the classical music section was in the grip of narrow minded supporters of the avant garde.
+Gavin Bullock That should be 'symphonist', not 'symphonic'
Simpson's "The Proms and Natural Justice" - a short but powerful book - needs to be widely read and understood.
This year (2024) is the sesquicentennial of the birth of the important Austro-Hungarian symphonist, Franz Schmidt, but not a note of his music will be heard at the Proms. However, there is a whole evening devoted to the "works" of Sam Smith.
Thank you very much!
In this recording we hear the last bars in the fast tempo written in the score. The ritardando in Hickox' (fine) recording is an addition by Hickox.
Yes Gavin, Robert Simpson edited a paperback book entitled "The Symphony", in which he states that Rubbra's Symphony no. 3 is a near masterpiece and the Symphony no 4 IS a masterpiece. Rubbra has become one of my favorite English symphonists. I mention that in my book--"How to Fully Enjoy Classical Music-Vol. 1 "Orchestral".
+ Ralph Casale ... Purely for the record it was Harold Truscott who did the stating in that (excellent) Simpson-edited Pelican book. Not that I'm any Rubbra expert. Which other symphonies (and other works) would those on here who do know his work particularly recommend I wonder?
Fin O'Suilleabhain
Number 7
@@Phantomrasberryblowe I agree - I discovered the 7th many years ago and I still think it is extraordinary, especially the Passacaglia (though there are less wonderful bits elsewhere in the work). The 4th is supposed to be his masterpiece but it hasn't gripped me yet.
I do remember waiting a long time to be able to hear this symphony because of the negative comments about it in the 1950s Grove- that Rubbra had favored extended, concentrated linear writing and counterpoint over anything purely pleasing to the ear, or something - negative to the writer, I mean but very, very positive and intriguing to _me_!! - and as it is, the orchestration sounds fine to these ears anyway... The variations-or-sonata-form?? and fugue finale makes a terrific impact in Hickox' recording (as, in my honest opinion, does the rest) just near the start of it here, still listening... will edit in...)
I have the Chandos recording too, but there were a few broadcast (and unbroadcast...) performances before and after that one and I like being able to hear at least two recordings for comparison (unless the sound quality on one is SO poor as to destroy really necessary clarity, for instance- which is why e.g. I probably won't be returning to the older recording I have of Wellesz' symphony 8 again, unfortunately.) Hrm. Going to have to check the score (which NYPL and some others have- I think they have the Lengnick reprint of the original UE score...) - since there's a question after all- whether one is slow- or the other (too?) fast!...
Striking and power symphonic work. Shades of Thaykowsky's "Manfred" is felt here, sometimes..
I have tried for years to like Rubbra's music but I can't. I guess I'm not temperamentally suited to it. This symphony gives me a headache.
Gets kind of lost in too much drama for it's own good. Sort of like the drama of the symphony detracts from a really beautiful symphony.
I hope one day soon the current inexplicable enthusiasm for Bax's incoherent symphonies will be replaced by a greater appreciation of Rubbra's. Not his best by a long way, but there's a real symphonist at work here, for sure.
+tstsullivan
Agree about Rubbra but I disagree with you that Bax's symphonies are 'incoherent'. A bit clunky at times, not towering masterpieces perhaps - but I have derived great enjoyment from their beauty, marvellous orchestration and brutal power, and I think quite a few others feel the same. 'Inexplicable enthusiasm' is a teeny bit patronising, isn't it?
one other comment- is it just identified as the BBC Symphony Orchestra? Nowadays that would be call for disambiguation on Wikipedia, Facebook or many another websites- ... hrm. cadensa bl uk lists recordings of this symphony in their archive by Hickox (on Chandos), Sargent (extract only), Charles Groves (from a complete or near-complete set of Rubbra symphonies taped for BBC broadcast, iirc- I wish US classical radio or television would do that for our best composers. I wish. I really do. But... anyways.), and a conductor-unidentified one with the "BBC Symphony Orchestra" (ah. Ok.) - maybe that's the one, Thomson identified on evidence available elsewhere. Hrm. I wonder if it is possible to find out the date too... :) I'll try sometime. Anyhow, thanks again much!!
I don't suppose there is much point replying 8 years later but "The BBC Symphony Orchestra" is the BBC's London-based orchestra and recognised as such by all music-loving Brits. The only other "BBC Symphony Orchestra" is the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra which is based in - surprise, surprise - Glasgow, Scotland. There are two other BBC Orchestras, the BBC Philharmonic and the BBC National Orchestra of Wales, but neither uses "Symphony" in its title.
Good for film. Symphony? Methinks not. Too much Shostakovic for its own good. Terrible.
Well, I don't think Thomson's version is the best, but Richard Hickox made a very good account of this work. I would respectively disagree that Rubbra's Symphony No 1 is 'terrible'.
@@jamesstuart5904 not terrible but rough around the edges. It doesn't go down smoothly.
@@jamesstuart5904 This performanc is by far more extreme, expressive and intense than the official recording of Hickox.
BLIMEY ...!