You've obviously never met a croissant saleswoman! Seriously, enjoy these vids, and the artifacts. A window into how our ancestors were trying to make sense our their surroundings, fascinating.
Excellent video and a beautiful find! It's important to understand, for those of us who don't have a background in ancient history, that "demon" means something rather different to us today, with our late Judeo-Christian awareness, than it would have meant to people of that time. To them there were worlds above us and worlds below us, and beings inhabiting them all. These weren't necessarily domains of punishment or reward. Just a thought to share. It's easy, sometimes, to forget that we're wearing our own glasses and seeing the world our own way.
I know this guy is primarily an archaeologist, but with his breath of study, and that lovely calm voice, I would love to hear him go over the Deep myths and lore about each of these deities as a series❤
The "crescent moons" definitely look like horns, compare them to horns on the crowns of lamassu statues. It's just because of the small size of the plaques causing some of that "distortion" on the part of the artisan. Thank you for a great video!
Yes, I think they are horns. They are small and only two, so perhaps this is meant to be a minor goddess? I tend to think that the large horned headdresses mean major deity, but it might just be a stylistic thing.
Thanks to seeing your comment, just checked to see if the bell had been rung, only to find I'm not subbed, even though I should be! No idea what happened but very fortuitous to have caught your post!
thanks for sharing your knowledge about these figurines. Super interesting to hear how professionals think about these ancient artifacts and their differences and similarities
Thank you for the video. Bureny Relief was and ever will be surrounded with doubt. Yet on the other hand it's the most popular image associated with Ishtar in general public. Depictions of a naked woman with spread out arms and wings are know from some pottery as well such as a decorated vase from Louvre
If you ask me (a guy on the internet) the idea that an Underworld deity with wings isn't totally unheard of in this general region. Hermas with his winged sandals was also a guide of the dead into the afterlife. I know... Hermes is Greek and this Assyria. But the connections between the Near East and Eastern Mediterranean have been strong well before the 600s BCE. That would be my argument for why the wings don't discount the idea of a Underworld figure.
My guess was a placard hung above or on the door. It's just the right size to be that sort of thing, and the holes in it seem to imply it was attached to wood, and not another piece of masonry. If she's associated with owls, and has the feet of a bird of prey in some depictions, it isn't a far reach to say the wings are more of the same sort of symbolism. The second depiction does have the same horn shape on her crown, though the crown is a different style than the one purely made of horns. They aren't crescent shaped, as they curve around the side in the same wave as the horns in the Burney Relief. They're just less pronounced, looking like it was intentional artist representation, as opposed to a literal crown of horns. The image and interpretation of the same deity over thousands of years is going to change with time, so even if she was less associated with owls later on, who's to say she wasn't the same deity, with a different artistic spin? I also think it would be weird to put demon imagery in a temple to a particular goddess, but sometimes religions like to scare folks in order to keep them in line. Always look forward to these videos. They're intriguing glimpses into the past. Thank you for sharing.
Your find has similarities to a Nimrud ivory in the Met, excavated by Max Mallowan (!), c. 9th-8th Cent. BC, in “Phoenician style,”: perhaps a ceremonial “horse frontlet” to protect its forehead in battle. Its nude figure with an “arresting frontal gaze” has the same stance, but is surrounded by lotus flowers and lions, and does not have the same crown or wings. She is “balancing on a third lotus flower” rather like a pedestal, and also has anklet rings. I wonder if it could be the same goddess despite the differences, or is that pedestal just a standard fixture used to depict goddesses? If it is the same, and the ivory one was meant to adorn a war horse, perhaps one could argue more for the warlike aspect of the goddess here rather than her underworld/demon aspect?
I think they probably did use a mold. Mold-made figurines were common since the middle Bronze Age, so I imagine they're using the technique here, though we haven't found direct mold-mates and I don't know of molds found here either. That implies they are making them somewhere else and bringing them to Nimrud.
Very interesting. Am I correct in thinking that Inanna's descent into the Underworld and giving up of items and clothing is the origins of the infamous "Dance of the Seven Veils"? FWIW Just noticed a comment about a lack of notifications. Was coincidentally thinking of you the other day watching Milo's latest video, and that I hadn't seen you for a while. Looked to see if the Bell had been dinged and for some reason, I'm not even subscribed?! No idea how that happened. Any road all sorted out now.
Soooo funny how all these "experts", so-called, when talking about Lilith, NEVERRR EVERRRR discuss the Indian Supreme Goddess Lalita; they steadfastly ignore the fact of Her existence and never ever do we see Her considered as a possible candidate involved in the origin of "Lilith". There is plenty of evidence that India was in communication with the rest of the world way back in the day; they sure knew about Indian yogis in ancient Greece; why shouldn't it have gone back further? But then, it's easier for male researchers to focus on demon goddesses and the vilification of women rather than the concept of a Supreme FEMALE Deity!
You've obviously never met a croissant saleswoman!
Seriously, enjoy these vids, and the artifacts. A window into how our ancestors were trying to make sense our their surroundings, fascinating.
I like these videos where you just show interesting things
Me too
I could sit with you for hours talking about that one little piece. Such an amazing find!
Excellent video and a beautiful find!
It's important to understand, for those of us who don't have a background in ancient history, that "demon" means something rather different to us today, with our late Judeo-Christian awareness, than it would have meant to people of that time.
To them there were worlds above us and worlds below us, and beings inhabiting them all. These weren't necessarily domains of punishment or reward.
Just a thought to share. It's easy, sometimes, to forget that we're wearing our own glasses and seeing the world our own way.
I know this guy is primarily an archaeologist, but with his breath of study, and that lovely calm voice, I would love to hear him go over the Deep myths and lore about each of these deities as a series❤
The "crescent moons" definitely look like horns, compare them to horns on the crowns of lamassu statues. It's just because of the small size of the plaques causing some of that "distortion" on the part of the artisan. Thank you for a great video!
Yes, I think they are horns. They are small and only two, so perhaps this is meant to be a minor goddess? I tend to think that the large horned headdresses mean major deity, but it might just be a stylistic thing.
RUclips hasn't been showing me your videos lately so I'm very glad to have caught this one, and will be catching up on the backlog!
Thanks to seeing your comment, just checked to see if the bell had been rung, only to find I'm not subbed, even though I should be!
No idea what happened but very fortuitous to have caught your post!
thanks for sharing your knowledge about these figurines. Super interesting to hear how professionals think about these ancient artifacts and their differences and similarities
Thanks for the upload.
I love the topic of these women figures from ancient times. I could have watched you talk about her for an hour.
Fascinating as always. Thanks for sharing mate.
Thoroughly enjoyed your presentation as always .
Thank you for the video. Bureny Relief was and ever will be surrounded with doubt. Yet on the other hand it's the most popular image associated with Ishtar in general public.
Depictions of a naked woman with spread out arms and wings are know from some pottery as well such as a decorated vase from Louvre
Thank you for the video. Nice to get a glimpse of how to ask the right questions when looking a an artefact.
good stuff, Doc!
So cool to see and learn a bit more about, thank you for sharing!
Wow! Thanks for sharing!
Thank you so much!
Hope you find the rest, would love to see if it looks like the other Ishtar image or a different cherubim image from that time period.
So cool.
If you ask me (a guy on the internet) the idea that an Underworld deity with wings isn't totally unheard of in this general region. Hermas with his winged sandals was also a guide of the dead into the afterlife.
I know... Hermes is Greek and this Assyria. But the connections between the Near East and Eastern Mediterranean have been strong well before the 600s BCE. That would be my argument for why the wings don't discount the idea of a Underworld figure.
My guess was a placard hung above or on the door. It's just the right size to be that sort of thing, and the holes in it seem to imply it was attached to wood, and not another piece of masonry.
If she's associated with owls, and has the feet of a bird of prey in some depictions, it isn't a far reach to say the wings are more of the same sort of symbolism. The second depiction does have the same horn shape on her crown, though the crown is a different style than the one purely made of horns. They aren't crescent shaped, as they curve around the side in the same wave as the horns in the Burney Relief. They're just less pronounced, looking like it was intentional artist representation, as opposed to a literal crown of horns. The image and interpretation of the same deity over thousands of years is going to change with time, so even if she was less associated with owls later on, who's to say she wasn't the same deity, with a different artistic spin?
I also think it would be weird to put demon imagery in a temple to a particular goddess, but sometimes religions like to scare folks in order to keep them in line.
Always look forward to these videos. They're intriguing glimpses into the past. Thank you for sharing.
Chemist wants to know: why this obsession with Mesopotamia? Why no one seems to care about Levopotamia and Dextropotamia?
Your find has similarities to a Nimrud ivory in the Met, excavated by Max Mallowan (!), c. 9th-8th Cent. BC, in “Phoenician style,”: perhaps a ceremonial “horse frontlet” to protect its forehead in battle. Its nude figure with an “arresting frontal gaze” has the same stance, but is surrounded by lotus flowers and lions, and does not have the same crown or wings. She is “balancing on a third lotus flower” rather like a pedestal, and also has anklet rings. I wonder if it could be the same goddess despite the differences, or is that pedestal just a standard fixture used to depict goddesses? If it is the same, and the ivory one was meant to adorn a war horse, perhaps one could argue more for the warlike aspect of the goddess here rather than her underworld/demon aspect?
It has some similarities in style, but the shape and sized of the placard is different than that of a frontlet, from what I can see.
beautiful, do you think they use a mold to shape the material before they fire it?
I think they probably did use a mold. Mold-made figurines were common since the middle Bronze Age, so I imagine they're using the technique here, though we haven't found direct mold-mates and I don't know of molds found here either. That implies they are making them somewhere else and bringing them to Nimrud.
3:58 to me those crescent moons look like two birds facing each other
Very interesting.
Am I correct in thinking that Inanna's descent into the Underworld and giving up of items and clothing is the origins of the infamous "Dance of the Seven Veils"?
FWIW Just noticed a comment about a lack of notifications.
Was coincidentally thinking of you the other day watching Milo's latest video, and that I hadn't seen you for a while.
Looked to see if the Bell had been dinged and for some reason, I'm not even subscribed?!
No idea how that happened. Any road all sorted out now.
Is there any comparator @ Baalbeck
I've heard a theory that it isn't Inanna/Ishtar, but her sister, Ereshkigal.
It's so nice to see this kind of content among all the bullshit put on RUclips. Thanks for sharing.
Do you realize what you've just done. Lol. Great stuff
Soooo funny how all these "experts", so-called, when talking about Lilith, NEVERRR EVERRRR discuss the Indian Supreme Goddess Lalita; they steadfastly ignore the fact of Her existence and never ever do we see Her considered as a possible candidate involved in the origin of "Lilith". There is plenty of evidence that India was in communication with the rest of the world way back in the day; they sure knew about Indian yogis in ancient Greece; why shouldn't it have gone back further? But then, it's easier for male researchers to focus on demon goddesses and the vilification of women rather than the concept of a Supreme FEMALE Deity!
Given enough time, one religions deity becomes another religion’s demon.
defo a wall thing
It's not Lilith that was "fake" Babylonian name for Sumerian Innana
The old gods are demons/the fallen. Look at the tribute they demanded.
Omg for the last time, Ishtar is NOT a demon! 🙄
You thinking Siren?
Mortal or demon whichever you be. Be gone! Ishtar has no time for pitiful games.