The Unwritten Rules of Commander | EDH | The Social Contract | Magic the Gathering
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- Command your budget! The Commander’s Quarters is your source for everything budget Commander! Today we talk about the unwritten rules of Commander!
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Игры
Always be precise when making deals. For instance, some people dislike when you exile a creature you said you wouldn't destroy.
The other day my son darksteel mutated a creature he had just promised not to destroy.
@@zombinekiller see? He kept his promise xD
We had some terrible problems with this, so we did exact opposite - you can strike a deal but it cannot be forced by any means. Player can brake it based on his topdeck or whatever without losing any honor and you should expect it. And make a deal with some kind of sugar/whip to get better chance of success
@@restoreleader Can you elaborate on that last one?
@@TheHobbyExpert Well, nobody will demand a deal that would get him ahead, as those will be likely broken. So most of the deals are only unimportant and mundane, and players tend to keep those. This warped whole diplomatic space, as you are trying to mask your key pieces as useless. And you will try to provide some benefits back if they are spared. This will be mosly done by players behind adn im aware that it would not work in competitive EDH probably
Unwritten rule number one:
"first, i will cast wayfarer's bauble"
never played this card in casual EDH unless i played nongreen monocolor. To bad otherwise.
@@FyrebirdLP 3 mana over two turns to get a land is typically pretty good even in multicolored decks that are not in green, i especially love it when i have a 4 cmc commander to get it out on turn 3
@@FyrebirdLP Jhoira Storm , not that bad
I like how the price is slowly creeping up and up. Lol.
@@iszslayermaxx9912 yeah, it's Mitch's fault, he made the card popular, soon, he won't be able to afford it in any of his deck except "break the bank" (100$ deck) :P
- I promise I won't attack you next turn bro
> Proceeds to cast Exsanguinate for 20 next turn
- Gotta be specific when making deals :^)
Yeah, that's fair, lol!
Last deal I make was:
Me "I will not kill your commander if you give mine unblockable"
Them: "Deal"
Me: "I attack you with my unblockable commander, then I destroy that land"
*note they had ramped on the turn before
@@jallen3775 Me: Oh. K. *Casts Apocalypse*
"If you let my Mycoloth stick around until my upkeep, I promise not to target you with the Purphoros, God of the Forge trigger!"
*evil grin
Hahaha oh I've never done that..
The most general rule about playing casually is that people don't like things that literally stop them from playing Magic. You can even see this in most of your salty cards: most of them stop other players from playing directly (Stax commanders and pieces, mass land destruction, Sen Triplets) or even indirectly (Extra Turns.dec with someone like Narset, Jeleva, and so on). People generally play Magic to play Magic; not to watch someone else play solitaire.
Just talk to your group, and personally, when you're playing with new players for the first time, it's probably best to err on the side of caution.
Win quickly or win interactively.
I don't mind losing a game and starting another. I don't mind playing a game that I could win. I mind losing a game and then having to play on hopelessly for 30 minutes hoping your combo fails or a lucky draw lets me break your prison.
I'm glad someone said it. Everyone at a casual table wants to play magic. Slowing down or ending the game is fine, but when you halt us just to take 10 min turns it's not fun
@@FuriouslySleepingIde I like "win quickly or win interactively". That's a nice way of putting it.
Turns aren't anti magic .
tl:dr: don't play blue.
1:52 Play nice with others
3:36 Lay off the land
4:40 Respect the resources
5:38 Let's have a clean fight
6:56 There is an order to things
7:40 Honesty is the best policy
8:44 A deal is a deal
10:06 You play to win the game
11:01 Stop speedy scooping
12:01 Tone it down
6:24 Ban Flash
#11 no slivers
How I prefer to scoop: Untap, upkeep draw, Planar Cleansing, Armageddon, concede.
Your nice I've actually resolved decree of annihilation and scooped because everyone at the table was being an ass and breaking the social contract left and right.
That’s a rather childish way of playing. If you’re getting ruined; wiping the board with the mentality of “if I can’t have fun, no-one can” is highly petulant and you should probably rethink if you spoiling the game will generate an enjoyable environment for others.
@@joebutcher7456 it's an arms race asshole if they are constantly being dicks I'm not gunna feel obligated to play nice and follow a social contract they aren't being held to.
My one buddy does that when he's losing and he's gotta go, It's hilarious 😂
Hive mind + apocalypse
Okay but can you scoop at instant speed if you have vedalken orrery? 🤔
😂
Not if they have baby teferi
Of course
If they cited veldaken orrery/leyline of anticipation I would not be salty
Its on split second so they can't respond lol
That moment when you're staring down flash-hulk in your hand but you're playing casual. "Flash... [sniffle] sad robot."
Been there man. I literally forgot I had the combo in my deck.
Flash in nyxborn ancient for ramp
Nah you have to flash in the hulk to get a shit ton of value, never combo's
Well now it doesn't matter what you do because Flash is banned and shouldn't be in the deck anyway
Mitch: “The optimal play is not always the one you’re gonna make”
Me: what i always play optimal
Mitch: shows Decimate
Me: understood
I did the same thing but with armageddon at a pod
So perfect
Jimmy Keffer I mean to be fair, throwing decimate all at one player could also be a not optimal play, considering you get frowns, and if you’re with the diplomatic players, they all agree to end you first lol
Reminded me of when I attacked the guy who had nothing but lands twice with It That Betrays because my other opponent had garbage AOE enchantments to sacrifice. The poor bastard rage quit and took his lands back.
Jesus Christ is lord. Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. It is important. Please.
Rule # 11 : Sometimes, it's okay to do sub-optimal plays in order to shorten your 15 min turn.
Totally agreed
But what if I want to waste half an hour dealing 1 damage and drawing 3 cards?
Absolutely! As a new player, sitting there and watching my friend play solitaire for 20 minutes and using so many combos that I'm not even sure if half of the moves are real anymore isn't always fun
@@perrinaybara8048 As a yugioh player that is now learning and getting into MTG, I know how that is like lol.
Okay, how long is socially acceptable to do solitaire for? Some decks/commanders have to do solitaire to be viable. I normally keep my turns under 5 minutes though, at worst case no more than 7 if I am absolutely comboing off
No matter what is being played, I always make it a point to laugh and joke around with the pod. It breaks the ice and I've met some SUPER cool people with really interesting and different decks. I respect the deck that's janky but 100% of their heart went into it.
@@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299 making fun of yourself is the best medicine for your saltiness.
Eric Hallam I may play a lot of contradictions in my decks. Part stacks part group hug and this is an unwritten rule that I do every single game, no matter the format. Besides if I joke around I feel less salty.
I'm lucky that I have a group who feels this way. We all can build these weird janky themed decks and not have to worry about everyone else running over them with competitive decks. It allows you to play those weird cards that would never see the light of day anywhere else.
Me too since I can only make jank decks now since I'm a new player. Hopefully I'll move onto lesser decks later
Most of my decks are Janky :) I mean I have a deck focused on Cycling, it is one of my favourite decks at the moment.
The unwritten rules are partly why some colors seem to be lacking.
Few people want to play against Mageta the Lion, even though it's monowhite, for example.
I don't want to play against Mageta because he's not a frickin' lion. He's lyin' about being a lion.
@@NotYourAverageNothing
Are you kitten me?
Not only that but it empowers other colors, notably green.
green decks getting to mass ramp with literally no counterplay due to "don't mess with people's lands".
Coby Folk This is true. And yet, most players I’ve met are still usually happier with this than with getting their own lands wiped.
@@Skyblade12 my group has just devolved into everyone doing whatever they want and at the same time getting salty at everyone else and the social contract totally braking down.
“Only scoop at sorcery speed” is a rule that completely falls apart when things like Mindslaver and Time Walk enter your meta. When you aren’t allowed to make sorcery speed decisions because you don’t get turns, that rule dies and never comes back. When you’re stuck waiting for a player to resolve fifteen minutes of turns, or watch as someone else plays your deck and you’re just a spectator...
Time Walk? That card is banned in this format.
Most of the playgroups I've played with have a "You can scoop at sorcery speed, or at the end of someone else's turn." rule.
I feel like instant scooping is also a legitimate political move when it’s all you have left to keep someone from attacking and killing you. They can either knock you out of the game or gain their lifelink life attacking someone else. Why should they get to do both at your expense?
@@rara2ra2yrra3racjj2 Yes, it is. But there are a whole ton of "take additional turn" cards, and I don't want to bother to list them all, so I chose one that everyone is familiar with.
Honestly, like, You could say "I'm gonna fold on my turn" and be done. I think it generally is good to wait, because things could change in an instant.
Me planning a mass land destruction stacks deck: Oh cool a new video how awesome😎
I made a numot the Devastator land destruction/ vultron deck and now I am friendless
I play slivers with mass land destruction/stax. My deck has 20 different ways to go infinite, and shuts everybody else out of the game lmao. For obvious reasons that deck is reserved for locals, not for playing with friends. I also have a gitrog cedh that i bust out if somebody talks trash.
I played against someone who was able to play an eldrazi with annialator 4 turn two. Some shit is just ridiculous. Having to sacrifice all your lands before you even have a body on the field is nuts lol
Me thinking about playing your mass land destruction stacks deck.
F*ck you, I'm not going to be playing with you anymore.
My Lord windgrace edh deck loves mass land destruction, might need to look into some stacks to add to it 😂
I don't know about rule #9
If someone is taking 20 minute combo turns and the hobby shop is closing soon...gotta scoop and get dinner at instant speed
To be fair, the context for scooping at instant speed is doing so to put another player in a less advantageous state against the other players.
Like denying lifelink, card draws, making them lose creatures they stole from you before they finish attacking another player and so on. If your scoop wasn't to maliciously hurt the board state then it doesn't fall into that category.
I play at a college, and although I hate scooping at instance speed, I will let others know that I have to leave soon that way if I have to scoop I will get them a chance to make a deal to hit me or use one of my draw/mana based Help cards (Temple Bell or Mana Flare)
Just talk it out with the other players, something like: "hey ok, he is storming off I don't think I can win, do y'all have answers? Otherwise I think we should scoop" also most combos don't take that long and usually you have a clear starting point, flash+hulk, infinite Mana+ outlet or inf damage. The problem is when you bring lovely stax where people just want speed instead of patience. Also there are locks that you might as well scoop to. Just talk it out.
Lastly if there is no money in the line, you should play something similar to what everyone else is playing, very boring to play with a guaranteed win. If you are a combo player and you want to play against casual just sideboard tutors and stax out.
My playgroup has a rule that says
"you can only scoop outside of combat and when there is no stack"
no matter who's turn it is
This gives room for people to leave if they need to, while preventing people from scooping just to thwart someone else's plans
Someone in my friend group played Warped World, and instantly won the game, because everyone scooped at instant speed, myself included.
“I promise this Derevi deck is bird tribal”
Turn 3: 𝐓𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐬𝐩𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞
bench chavez Birds love sitting on spheres. I always see birds in the park chilling on street lamps. Flavor is still there.
Turn 3? Pfff, casuals.
Edit: also trinisphere isn't that bad in casual, it alows the fast decks a bit but that's it.
Honostly a single winter orb in a derevi deck full of flyers isnt stax. It's a highly synergistic card that makes sense. If the three other people can't get around it then the root problem is that they probably haven't built very synergistic decks themselves and it's a miss match of power/experience level. Only reason I bring this up is I think it's bad for our game to simply remove cards and styles of play without serious inspection into the real issue (which is the process that the banded list cards have gone through).
William Blank I do agree with this since decks should of basic answers to enchantments, artifacts, lands, etc. I may not have a ton of answers and they are not guaranteed to be there everytime, but it is better than me relying on someone else to do something about it.
Yeah trinisphere is one of the least bad tax cards for casual EDH where people have an average CMC higher than three sometimes
MLD is fine with me if you end the game in short order afterwards. If you just do it to reset the board and durdle for another hour, you can find somebody else to play with.
You should only have that cards if you can win quickly after them. I have Jokulhaups in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck and normally I win quickly after casting It
I think it's acceptable if it stops your opponent from winning too.
What if I was about to end it, but someone else intervened and because of that everything turned down to a slug?
Ferdi the Tank Then you just keep playing. It's that simple.
I only MLD with one deck...my Tuvasa Enchantress deck...because the MLD IS my wincon...as Enchanted Evening and either Aura Thief or Calming Verse tends to encourage everyone to scoop, if someone wants to keep playing after that...well, good luck, cos as everyone else has realised, you ain't coming back from that...
My group revolves around one and only one rule: "There is a finite amount of fun and I want all of it."
Show me a table with this philosophy and I'll show you the least fun table to play Commander at.
@@drkruggles5961 i think thats the most fun table though, why should i play a pull your punches game?
@@joel17721 agreed i find it funner to fight against opponents are going all out I only get salty when players use cheese/extremely overpowered ie eldrazi deck
Fun is a zero sum game, and I intend to be in the positive
In the Navy this is referred to as the Law of Conservation of Happiness.
When a boat goes underway, there is a finite amount of happiness on board; it only changes hands or gets lost to the sea.
I've definitely seen these rules in action recently. One player went to cast The Immortal Sun, a complete bomb in his Alela deck, and then stopped and rolled it back when he realized that it turned off the Super Friends-based Group Hug deck and didn't cast it again until he was going for the win.
That's so... Heartwarming.
That sounds like a good player to me
To wholesome
sorry but at that point i would say sorry to the super friends deck and continue with the original play
if the hug deck has no way around that, its there problem not mine
I have a gruop hug deck with no win condition but I only use it when i play with friends who are learning to play magic.
I have a Gwafa Hazid group hug deck that I use in groups of 4 (or more?) because it just enables a lot of things with all the draw and basically no punishment for it, but it usually also can aid or stall others while they are doing things if people have been nice to me. It's got a single counterspell, but lots of ways to influence combos. If it were to win, it's because the game went long and I was able to steal opponents' creatures and somehow win with them, or make a copy of them. Rite of Replication, Confiscation, or Corrupted Conscience. Usually it doesn't have a way to win, but definitely helps other win.
I feel that Group Hug is fine but there should be a way to end the game in any deck, I have a Zo-Zu the Punisher deck that has a win condition but it has a pseudo Group Hug backbone because my commander can win with Group Hug cards (Mana Flare, Ghirapur Orrerry, Storm Cauldron)
Chaotic good
I love the idea of playing group hug decks. I want to play one with an anytime instant speed wincon so I can help everyone's combos go off and have a good time, but it the game goes too long just end it for everyone at anytime. That's the best
On the Decimate topic:
In our playgroup I often call out the most powerful deck on the table at that moment. Be it in deckbuilding, and/or gamestate development during the game.
In my perspective it's ok to fully set back the strongest deck with a card like Decimate if the gamestate calls for it. I explain my choice from a gamestate perspective and always name the deck, not the player, which makes it non-personal.
It evades the salt, and sometimes the player even takes it as a sincere compliment to their gameplay or deckbuilding skills. (Which is indeed a sincere compliment, no mindgames or whatever there.)
Been there, I was playing mono-black full removal and one player had brought a competitive blue control deck to casual play, basically spent the day neutralising him so other players could actually do anything. Wasn't fun.
Decimate exists as toolbox destruction imo. I usually spread it around, because i'm usually only casting it to remove one particularly annoying piece, but sometimes the gamestate calls for me smacking someone really hard in the board. An unwritten rule I have for that is that if i do overwhelmingly target one person, I destroy one of my own lands as payment.
Came here to say that EVERY strategy should have counterplay. The counterplay for land ramp is Geddon.
currently brewing for a Numot mld. It's exciting to be the archenemy on the table and more satisfying to get all of them :D
stranglehold
or Stax strategies in general, issue is that ramp speeds a game up and fighting it slows a game down. Slowing the game down has the very important secondary effect of wasting everyone's time, which is why people hate it. one two hour game is rarely as fun as 4 half hour ones.
@@shadowtycho I wish my playgroup had half hour games of commander... Maybe I should not take so long for my turns.
Its not necessarily everyone has one whoops I win combo so games don't take days.
You see the irony in listing unwritten rules
I love em. No one seems to follow them, so yeah haha write em down!
My single, unforgivable taboo of mtg in general: do not prevent one/multiple players from playing entirely. Leovold & Iona on the banlist are prime examples of that taboo
I agree. Although I have two commanders: Lavinia and Zegana that are able to stop players from playing as well as Anafenza stax.
They are rarely played but I appreciate the resources if a spike wants to pub stomp.
@@MeepOfFaith he was banned due to interactions between his opponent focused effect & certain extra draw effects like teferi's puzzle box, almost completely locking you opponents out of playing anything
Modern players who use eldrazi and taxes:
Allow me to introduce myself
Even doing it accidentally can be be bad in the right circumstance
TBH, Iona's intro to the banlist was one of the stupidest things I've seen because it came LITERALLY like this:
Painters Servant is now Unbanned.
This was some straight up BS. Iona too was really only tossed into Kaalia really and it was only to push for a wincon for a subpar Commander.
Is it “Mitch, glad to be here” or “Mitch Gladavi here”?
I will totally decimate one player's 4 things if those are the most powerful ones among their types at the table.
With regards to Speedy Scooping, my friends and I came up with an interesting way to resolve it: If they scoop due to an action you take, you get to retake said action (ei retargeting or redeclairing attacks)
I like this rule! I play villianous wealth, and whenever I play it the one person I target concedes and it sucks because I get nothing
That's cheating
My friend used all targets of casualties of war on me.
Destroy target friendship
Were you about to win the game? Or threatening to combo off?
Big oof
@@fandomewhisper people rarely get what they deserve.
@@charz1238 yeah, didn't recover from that. Practically a punching bag after that
Very well written and presented. RE: #9 I've been very conflicted about. I've heard some players argue that concession should be limited to sorcery speed and I simply disagree - the idea of forcing a player to sit there if they aren't having fun or aren't getting a turn or are being consistently mindslaver'd feels like holding their fun hostage and really goes against the spirit of the game in my opinion. The way I've handled it in my playgroup is when someone's scooping would actually have a game impact (from lifelink or a sword effect etc) we allow the player to scoop but allow the attacker to gain the life or gain the effects of the swords or whatever. It's no longer any of the business of the guy who left the table IMHO and I think everyone else felt the same way I did that it's not worth debate over at that point.
No doubt, I guess the solution is to scoop whenever you want to (if you don't want to physically stick around) but maybe keep your stuff "proxied in" until you would have hit a main phase, where it would have returned control to you (no longer present). They get to do their thing and you get to peace out.
@@8MetalMike8 good in theory, but doesnt really work against a mind slaver lock kinda hard to proxy their deck and all the cards they will get for the next 3 or 4 turns or something. Though that is kind of a specific scenario
@@jamesloucka1952 Yeah I suppose, one of those grey areas. If I mindslaver-locked someone though, I personally couldn't blame them for insta-conceding haha.
Easier solution: Just dont play with someone who does that. Let them know that its a 4-man game and that other people want to PLAY the game, not just watch them play. They'll either realize "Man, maybe that is kind of a dick move" or they'll quickly realize why no one wants to play with them. Confrontation is never something I actively seek, but sometimes when someone is being selfish in the face of multiple other people it's best just to confront that person on said behavior. If someone actively scoops too early in order to undercut someone else, then let them know that if they keep doing it they're no longer going to be allowed to play. Be respectful, be calm. But ultimately make it clear that childish, selfish, and negative actions have consequences. Usually a one time discussion is enough to prevent all further conceding.
Above all, use common sense. Don't be a jerk and everything will probably end out fine.
This is perfect! I’ve never been able to properly explain the social contract to my group and now I can just point them towards this video. The only rule we have established on top of this is that we don’t allow anyone to scoop just because, they have to explain why they want to scoop and the table will decide if a player scoops. If the player does have somewhere to go we do let them scoop anyhow. This helps prevent players from getting a single card countered and then instantly quitting. It has actually been beneficial to the players who typically do that at my table because the my tend to learn more and stay and have a good time with friends.
Nobody:
Mitch: "My Selenia Dark Angel deck"
A way around your little "Group hug" thing is play a fully group hug deck, because there is nothing wrong with that but add a singular card that almost immediately wins the game, such as the pheldagrif example, just throw in a single copy of approach the Second sun, because then you are able to win, in a almost strictly group hug fashion while staying true to the archetype of help everyone always
I think my biggest unspoken rule is don’t start an arms race. The worst tables are when everyone starts trying to wallet warrior eachother and eventually everyone’s out a few hundred dollars and having less fun. It’s fine to upgrade your deck, but pace it with the table. If you’re in a set group it’s just more fun that way
"You dont want to buy a deck that no one wants to play against"
-Truth
I thought that was called going to competitive magic games to get free money
I remember a few years back I was playing some casual commander with 3 others. I had Sheoldred in hand/ commander zone, an had the mana to summon them, but we also knew one of them had a control creature enchantment in hand, so I was holding off on playing them.
They asked me "why don't you play Sheoldred" and I said that they'd just take it with their enchantment, so there wasn't any point playing it. They said that they wouldn't take control of Sheoldred if I played it. I was skeptical, but I'd played with them quite a bit before, soI figured I'd trust them, and summoned her. They began their next turn by taking control of Sheoldred while laughing at me for believing them. Trust is dead to me still.
that seems stupid, whenever i play with friends we sometimes make deals, and until now noone has ever broken a Deal because we all play for fun. The deals are completely build on trust although you should assume that if you break one Deal, noone will ever make one with you again, so thats prolly why we all stand by our word.
edit: i just arrived at the point in the vid where he talks about deals xDD
Playing like that is just straight up stupid. You make the game less fun for everyone and nobody will ever make a deal with you again
That's when I scoop ar instant speed and whenever I play them, I target them
I’d actually like to throw out a nuance to the casual combo discussion. I’ve found that in a casual game there are two types of speed to actually consider. The first is the one you covered, which is, “how early in the game came can I get this combo to go off?” The second, and the one people don’t talk about as often is the combo that asks, “can anyone respond to this before securing the win?” An instant speed combo that can win the game the moment it resolves is less casual than one that sets up a winning board state and then has to survive. Making infinite tokens without haste is way more casual than making infinite tokens and then sacrificing them to altar of dementia at instant speed on the turn they resolve.
The complexity of the combo crushes things too. I don’t think anyone is going to actually get mad if your 5 card infinite mill combo goes off on turn 14.
I have a six card combo in white that makes me get infinite kithkin... and life as a side effect... but hey that.... however much life can go down SUPER fast in quite a few situations
I’ve never had a problem with people letting me play my wanderwine prophets infinite turn combo since it requires 9 mana and no blocks, counters, or removal.
Thank you for doing this video, Mitch. As someone whose only experience with Commander is checking out videos about it like yours and The Profs, hearing these rules actually explain a lot of small nuisances I've heard discussed but never quite understood.
I often scoop at instant speed, when a friend of mine starts storming and it's 90% save to say, that he won the game at that point. I usually ask around, if we want to start a new game, before we watch him play solitaire for the next 20 minutes.
Edit: And sometimes I scoop, when someone plays hardcore control and I don't feel, there will be a window of opportunity anymore, because of his absurd amount of mana + hand cards.
Scooping at instant speed is only dishonorable if you are doing it to disturb someone's victory, if the entire table is doing it to GIVE someone victory (because the situation is hopeless, for example) then it's not only honorable, but it should be done this way to play as many matches as possible.
I run a sliver deck, and the most annoying think when playing it is when I got someone for 80 with lifelink and they just scoop. I usually still win at that board state, but there are the odd times that I get burned to death next turn. Though, who am I to talk, I run slivers.
@@Lil_Brimstone I agree with this.
Most games where I'm winning my opponents scoop when I hit them with my lifelink general, feelsbadman
tbh your in same boat as me when that happens because if get zero hand without any draw extends ex. erebos god of dead greed words of worship then i might get cooked with no animators too recover the grave
When I see people scoop at instant speed, it's normally "You win this turn, I'm going to get a head start on shuffling because I have twenty seven lands in play. Finish as if I'm still here, but I don't have any interaction, good game."
That's fine, in my opinion. Scooping to deny resources is bad, but if you don't have anything to do and someone's going off in a way that /will/ win that turn, or if you're dead anyway and tell them to calculate it as if your board were still there... Double-sleeved commander decks are big, and take a while to shuffle. I've also used that as an excuse to take a quick bathroom break after an incredibly long game.
Yeah I think this is the correct way to play, they still can have their fun, but I basically f6 their turn and go pee and then ask. So we died? Or we all come to an agreement to scoop, and just play more games.
The only caveat I would add to the discussion on Speedy Scooping: When a player has demonstrated a clear winning position with no real way of answering it, discussing with the other players to agree to concede at the same time I feel it perfectly reasonable. That player still has to show how they are going to win of course.
Great list. I have seen a lot of this rules broken at my table, but usually is not the case.
every group I've played with has had one more: you can play any deck once, but if it breaks the fun, you have to pull out a different deck for the next game.
My group has this same rule.
I like the comment on group hug decks. I have a personal rule on those: attack them first. Group hug people think their strategy makes them untouchable, but i immediately realize one of two realities: they either have a sneaky win, or the resources are too beneficial
Soft banning Armageddon is exactly why green out classes most of the other colors. Green gets to celebrate a part of its color pie, while White is robbed of a chunk of it’s own. The part of the pie that keeps Green’s ramp in check.
Why do people keep saying that mass land distraction and land distraction is a white thing? in general that has been moved out from white a long time ago and shifted to red. There are like three white spells that do mass land distraction at decent cost.
If that was the only thing holding white back you would expect more of those cards being played in cedh decks with white but they are usually eskewed in favor of blood moon,winter orb and other land control effects which are easier build around.
I personally don't feel like any color in particular is restricted from doing what the color wants (at least in my play group I suppose), and at least in my view mass land destruction doesn't seem to much like whites thing. But hey, I am just a humble internet tech priest 😁
I agree that the big white and red spells involve mld. Cultivate and the eldrazis arent played in cedh either, but if you find a group where those cards are effective, odds are that flooding the board and then geddon everything will win you the game fast. But if all that is allowed is to kill creatures and not lands, then cultivate is sudenly overpowered...
Ab Cd Why do people keep saying that mass creature destruction and creature control is a black thing? In general it has been moved out of white a long time ago and shifted to X color.
The above sounds just as ridiculous as what you said. Just because they aren’t currently printing a powerful optioon on a color does not mean that color doesn’t do that thing. They haven’t printed good counterspells in a long maybe save for force of negation and no one would say that blue isn’t the control color.
Nobody is talking about cEDH here; never mind that there are cEDH stax decks with white in them. nobody said that white not using mld was holding the color back we all know that card advantage is that answer.
Sure mono white sucks but Bant and Esper have representatives in edh and cEdH
There hasn’t been a good board wipe made in black in a long time. Time Spiral block. Yet it still keeps that identity. White has 3? 4 different land wipes that are decent. Folks don’t like playing against them because they don’t want to leave magical Christmas land where they can do everything they want without having to hold a counterspell or a Boros charm.
I feel like there are a ton other ways you can deal with land ramp besides mass land destruction. They've got to play creatures or artifacts or enchantments, and those can be dealt with. White isn't robbed of a chunk because there really aren't that many cards that destroy all lands. White gets to board wipe, white gets to have targeted removed to both destroy or exile certain permanents. They get to use enchantments, which many decks don't have good answers too. They get to have pretty good fliers and other cards that tax or say "you can't do this unless X."
White isn't the strongest card in multiplayer, but it's not because of MLD.
The only time I've scooped at instant speed was when the new guy insisted his deck was casual then started dropping massive eldrazi on turn 3. See honesty rule dude.
I've done it when someone dropped a Blood Moon and I was playing Atraxa, had only nonbasics out, and had no signets or anything else. It just shut down my deck completely. I could keep playing and maybe hope for signets and maybe hope for the right signets and maybe hope for my chromatic lantern and then maybe hope for a tutor or one of my "destroy target permanent" cards. Or keep playing and just keep discarding to hand size. Or scoop. Because 2 of the players were mono-red, and the 3rd was izzet. So Blood Moon really only hurt me, and hurt me in a way that pretty much prevented me from playing at all.
Been there, my dude... Been there.
That is casual. Meta decks don't do that.
That's 100% casual. Competitive decks don't use eldrazi. They prefer to play cards that instantly win the game or stop others from winning the game instantly.
@@jonathantaylor2810 there 100% are cedh decks that run the og eldrazi titans as shufflers, will admit they're almost never cast though
Something okay in your playgroup (proxies, silver border cards, house rules, etc.) may not be okay when you play with others outside of your playgroup.
I feel silver border cards in the deck should always be announced, but I also feel like silver border legendaries should be allowed as commanders if no other silver is in the deck.
The proxy one seems a bit ridiculous cause you're kind of turning it into pay to win format. But I agree with the other ones
Thank you, these rules are never put into one place , short, sweet, and understandable like this for new players. I’ve had to learn these over years of playing so Thanks Mitch
I feel like an overarching issue with some play groups is there is one person that comes week after week with a stronger deck than the others. This makes people build decks that straight up counter said person.
Highly agreed. There was a guy who always had some sort of mill deck for any color so it forced me and a friend of mine to immediately put the 2 og ulamog and Kazalic eldrazi so we don't loose to no library
And my brother kept making CDH decks I made 60 card mono blue deck when ever he plays a competitive deck and I only target him
@@arichaast8585 you can’t play a 60 card deck against a commander deck
@@joeloweryourexpectationsbiden who says you can't? I play witha people who uses 60 card decks against commander decks and I do the same against commander decks. Nothing wrong with casual play who obey by ban/restricted card rules and card mechanics
@@arichaast8585 you must build some insanely weak decks
@@joeloweryourexpectationsbiden I use to and I don't play competitively I try to build more fun for the group I play with. Also back to my original post it wad a time during 60 card decks was the norm not commander
Amen honesty and respect are key to playing. Stick to the deal
A guy I've never met resolved Thieves Auction last night and it was so fun
That was me.
Guy i know played eye of the storm, followed by thieves auction. first thieves auction wasn't too bad, the second was pretty annoying, by the time we got to the 5th i just scooped.
I see, agree and participate with most of the rules with the exception of the chaos rule. I have an Ilharg deck that plays all of the chaos cards you had up there and Confusion in the Ranks, and a few more. I love it, and play it in one on one but usually get taken out as soon as I play one of them.
Dose any one else want a derevi bird Tribal deckteck
Check out Noxious’s video where he goes over his Derevi bird tribal deck tech
As a Stax player, I approve of this list
Im unsure if its like a sub-rule ...
"Chill out on Extra Turn spells" having a couple is fine but continuesly casting extra turn spells for 8 turns in a row and by that i mean in your extra turns, it can get quite annoying especially since the earlier extra turn spells were never meant to be played with planeswalkers in such a way. One of my friends decks core way to win is simply just through one way... play removal and discard for the first 3-5 turns tutor the miracle extra turn card play "nicol bolas, dragongod" and win through extra turns... if by some miracle he doesnt win straight away usually all opponents are left with 1-2 hand cards and less than 3 lands, usually the extra turns include him playing his other nicol bolas planeswalkers or their creature variants ... basically while we´re still on turn 6 or so he is on turn 10-15
Yes he is the typical person that always wants to play with the strongest deck at the table and he does invest the most amount of money by far, still not really fun to sit there for 15 to 20 minutes as he is playing by himself basically...
Appreciate the videos like these. As a non Commander player, your videos have saved me time and money in making the decision that Commander really isn't for me and I appreciate that immensely. Definitely subbing and will keep watching the content.
I have one:
*Take it easy on the new player*
If you are playing with someone new to the format, please don't target any hate cards towards that player. I've seen lots of people getting scared out of the format because they became easy targets in the table for playing an unoptimized deck and they never wanted to give the format a try again. I've barely managed to bring those people to play Kitchen Table Commander, but those guys won't ever step again in that LGS.
Granted, that LGS has a lot of issues, but I'm sure one of the main problems as to why Commander isn't such a popular format in my city is because of the unfriendly playgroups in public places, especially that LGS.
Hey I know this is a 5 month old comment but I gotta say this. Not all new players want to be taken easy. I personally am new to magic in general and I hate it when I can notice more experienced players holding back on me. Just go full force with your deck so I can learn what it's ment to do so I can learn what cards I need to play against that deck/just look up online what to do against particular strategies.
I'm sure other new players can agree with me.
@@vivaty199 I understand your point. Problem is that being targeted by one player//the table can feel infuriating to the point that people will just feel frustrated with the format, even more during a "casual" game. It's what happened on my LGS. Getting locked out of the game when you're still learning your ropes is one of the reasons one of my friends refuses to play EDH, even with people that don't play those kinds of decks.
The intention of my original comment was more on the point of "don't use degenerate decks against someone who just assembled their deck out of the bulk they own". If I'm playing an optimized deck, sure, go full force, but it isn't fun to get steamrolled when your deck consists mostly on bulk cards.
Rule #9 resonates with me a HUGE amount. I was playing a Planeswalker deck at my local shop, and it was not running as smooth as I wanted, so I used a 'villainous wealth' on another player in order to gain that edge that I needed to keep up with the other two. That player then scooped, and left me high and dry. I was honestly pissed, because the other two were afraid of seeing the card, and immediately targeted me. I had sunk all my mana into that as a hail mary, and that player basically said, "How about no?"
Don't play super spikey cards then
I end up scooping in commander a lot because of time constraints. When our dungeon master shows up i scoop. I don't like doing it but the d&d game does need to start quickly since the store we play at closes like 9 pm. It's annoying though because the other player who also plays in our d&d game will continue playing, thus holding up the d&d game for everyone else.
The only time I’ve done mass land destruction was when someone had enchanted evening out and I cast farewell, because she was a hundred steps ahead of everyone else. Had to level the playing field. Downside, everyone’s everything disappeared
I know some sore players and I'm going to watch and write this down. Thanks for the upload.
This video is a blatant, propaganda-ridden attempt at trying to bring out the best in individual persons who are playing a fun casual MTG format in the hopes that a good time is had by all. Okay...I'll try it. For you, Mitch.
Turn 1 sol ring into turn 2 blood moon in a CEDH match which shut down 2 out of 3 of my opponents. Much salt was had. 😈
If neither of them thought to keep a hand with a FoW, that's on them lol
But if it's cEDH it's to be expected.
Neither of them had a single basic land in their decks, it's not my fault. I went on to win that game easily since it was effectively a 1v1
@@Dan.Hibiki Yeah, they should know better than that.
When not playing cdh i always ask if i can play witth my Zozu/Ankh deck :D, They usually said no but then they let me play with my Sen Triplet :D
Thank you for these unwritten rules! I am very new to commander so I these are super helpful tips!
I was playing with a player totally new to Magic. She was playing Trostani Selesnya's voice and I was playing Windgrace (landfall and hydras). She had a pretty decent board state but I was in command with Omnath, bunch of tokens, and Nissa Who Shakes about to Ult but I was mostly tapped out. We weren't trying to backseat game too hard but when she passed after not doing anything, I couldn't let her and showed her a line of play to knock Nissa out of ult range.
If you just do the opposite of what he says this is the ultimate trolling guide. 😂
Lol #9: "In response, I scoop."
You started with decimate, and just the other week, while playing with my arixmethes deck you did a deck tech on, got decimated in both games, however in the second game it was turn 5, I got off to a good start but missed two land drops, and the caster hit arixmethes and my sol ring, getting rid of more than half my mana. He said he did it for the value, but I pretty much couldn't play the rest of the game, because I kept missing land drops
My playgroup has this rule where if u make a deal u need to shake on it, for example I said to my friend if u let my giant adephage go through so I can get a copy of it, I’ll do something for you and he said okay and then he blocked it and killed it, and when I got mad at him, he said “we didn’t shake on it, so it doesn’t count”. I never made that mistake again.
Any strategy is fine. Stax, MLD, its all ok, since all the decks are somewhat equal level. Its only unfun for me if someone has a super crazy over the top cedh deck against some very simple precons or something like that. Other than that im ok to play against all type of strategy.
This! I find all power levels and strategies can be fun, it's just important that everyone is on the same level.
We play enough games to know the different PL's of everyones various decks that folks know that if some player is playing a specific deck, they might as well understand they've declared themselves Archenemy against the other players playing less powered decks for the game and have no right to complain about it lol.
@@thebenis3219 I do this sometimes, because I still want to play my powerful decks, but understand my friend group can afford to play powerful magic. Archenemy still gives me a chance to play it and see if I can take all of them. If I lose I'm actually happy, because it means that I can play my decks more lol
My group doesn’t like infect so when I was building my Hapatra deck and debating putting some infect cards into it, we came to an agreement to play infect as whither until such a time as people want to play infect as infect
This is how I like to handle a lot of these kinds of things, too. If you're playing casually, and rules as written is too mean and nobody (including you) wants it, then just errata it within your group. You have the power to make the game more fun for yourselves, why not? And if the errata ends up breaking a combo, address it later. This seems like the optimal solution.
Love your videos! Btw I just bought your budget Muldrotha deck on tcg, cant wait to test it out!
I'm glad to have come across this video because I'm getting back into Magic specifically to play commander, which I never have before. I started playing with Rise of Eldrazi so I'm very partial to them. My original commander was going to be Thromok the Insatiable (I liked green and red back in the day and I already had the card). But in my many hours of research I came across a really cool commander alternative to play towards the "sacrifice" theme-- and BONUS, I get to run black cards as well! Little did I know, this new commander is somewhat infamous-- Korvold, Fae-Cursed King. At this point, I REALLY don't wanna have to drop the black side of the deck by switching back to Thromok just to "tone down". Another concern I have is that I'm running a couple tutor cards and technically the deck IS capable of infinites with Spawnsire of Ulamog, parallel lives/doubling season, and Ashnod's Altar. Not to sound cliché, but I'm not running THAT kind of Korvold deck (the kind that spams treasure). So if I've learned anything from this video, I oughta be upfront and honest with a potential pod about what my deck has going for it but how I intend to play it.
"social contract is no land destruction", also you already made a kamahl ponza-ish/armageddon-ish deck that destroys so many enemy lands..... mhm.
Not his only land destruction deck.
The gap between competitive and casual has shrank recently, I think it's just due to better deck building.
ITs more ctrl+c -> ctrl+v then people actually getting better.
Great video Mitch. I agree with it except for group hug and chaos decks. As long as you tell me beforehand I'm ok with it. It's fun to get a silly game in every now and again
Saw your channel mentioned on an official MTG survey. The Mothership knows you exist!
"Most casual players aren't trying to combo off as soon as they can"
Me:
-Laughs nervously-
I'm pretty sure I've faced all these cards yesterday in casual pods
Recently discovered your channel and really enjoying your content Mitch. Especially thats it's in easy to consume bites. Keep up the good work and thanks for the content.
The social dance of commander is hard to get right sometimes cause different players like to play magic in different ways. This is what my most recent playgoups hangup was. What one player found fun another didn't. I'm "okay" with stax decks so long as they are not spinning in place and actually going for the win rather than stopping everyone from playing.
I love my aminatou deck and it can win anywhere between turns 4-11. Some players don't like it focuses on combos to win but im not going to feel bad for having wincons in my deck.
Any tips on how to win without making other players feel bad though? Some just seem to take it personally.
All suggestions welcome.
I've built group hugs decks in the past with no win conditions, and the problem wasn't that no one wanted to play with them, it was that *specific* players didn't want to play with them, because everyone drawing a ton of cards and playing a bunch of lands screwed with their own win conditions. Usually that was control type decks. Later I built decks that DO have a win con, but it was like, one or two cards out of the deck with no way to tutor. Nowadays I tend more towards the political hugs type deck. I'll do nice things for people... as long as they don't do anything to hurt me.
My most hated thing is what I sadly come across very often
I sit down to what is supposed to be a casual game and it's just; "*tutor* *tutor* *tutor* oh look I win"
It feels cheap af to play against and from their perspective, it has to be the most boaring thing to do with your time
@@nicholasbolas I'm curious, do big Green stompy deck seem more dominant in your meta?
@@nicholasbolas yeah my playgroup consists of 4 people including me, 2 of them dont really play anymore and the last one runs Niv Mizzit insta win with cards like ophidian eye and a sliver overlord/omiboid changeling deck.
(Edit: oh yeah and krinko goblin swarm)
I've gotten pretty tired of playing because it's either don't play or have my queen marchesa kingdom tribal deck get shit on
sorry but tutors are the name of the game my friend
An important rule: leave grudges in the game. If someone beat you in an upsetting way, remember that it is still a game and at the end of the day you can still be friends. It is especially bad if a player wins one game, but then doesn't even get to play the next game because they got a bad hand and the entire table decides that they have to go, completely ignoring the super powerful and dangerous board states around them.
The scooping at instant speed was dealt with by my play group by just adding the effects that went away as though they where still there, ie life link still applies even if the other player scoops before damage, three biggest offenders in our group was someone always assuring about life link.
The only unwritten rule not on here I've noticed is this:
If you have the chance to win, please please go for it if you think it'll work.
So many pods I've been at, I've had folks just delay potential wins 'for fun' because it makes the game go on longer. After having experienced this so much when I started out casually, having come from competitive Modern/Legacy, it did my absolute nut in. It made me run broken combos like Bomberman and Isochron Sceptre+ Dramatic Reversal so clean quick wins could happen so I could get more games in. I actively try to avoid players that just don't end games or if I have to play with them, I make sure to put in fast win cons that just finish things on the spot with basically very little solitaire on my part. Folks get salty about dying out of nowhere, but it's better than artificially prolonging a game that has taken 40 minutes already. Just my take though.
I'm gonna be honest, I'm usually fine with the game ending turn one/turn two. Their deck got to do its thing and we couldn't stop it and that's dope. Then I just get to play another game. More Magic more fun.
Sure. One time. Then sit and play with that deck for multiple games, or multiple people's instant win decks and it's not so fun anymore.
I can see why I hated playing on my LGS. The meta there was basically to ignore this list.
Did we go to the same LGS? You forgot to mention the endless salt of players who feel victimized by any swing or removal at their things. This is why I dont like lgs as much for multiplayer.
I find it funny that you mentioned the bird tribal thing with derevi...one of the people at my lgs did that exact same thing, said it was bird tribal and then played stasis and eventually when that was dealt with armageddon
I have a token Derevi list, with little dudes with tap utility abilities. The deck doesn't run tutors or the full hatebear suite, but the opportunity cost of running Stasis and the Orbs alongside some Vigilance effects is so low that it almost feels obligatory.
Excellent video. I love your deck techs, but think this is even more useful. Commander should be fun and these are great guidelines. Thanks
As a person who doesn’t play commander, my goal is to make first commander deck have all of these cards
I only scoop at instant speed if it's me and one other person and they kill me
Man. I love my chaos deck with Jhoira as my commander. Scrambleverse, thieves auction, warp world, GOBLIN GAME, timesifter, omen machine, confusion in the ranks, knowledge pool, shared fate, eye of the storm. I enjoy my chaos deck and its fun to play against people who have decks that try to infinite combo
I usually play land destruction, but my main reason is so many decks in my playgroup are land ramp. The main way to keep them in check is get rid of their lands.
I will absolutely scoop at instant speed when someone else begins their infinite combo
casual EDH: play and let play
cEHD: Mexican standoff
You can play totally casual and make some tax or pain plays. I can tell that I have a Kaervek deck far away from being competitive, the fact is I use to lose most games, but playing manabarbs, Painful Quandary...and things like that make people angry and then get focused. But I have faced, T&T, Selvala, Aminatou...decks that they win me as fast as I couldn't get them below 30 life (as multiplayer games).
Thanks for mentioning the instant speed scooping one, there was 3 players left, I goaded my opponent and the other opponent scooped, making me lose by having the goaded player attack me instead.
If I'm playing a deck for the 1st time, I generally don't reveal too much of it's core strategies beyond a very simplified explanation. I like to keep the surprise of what the deck can do. Since most of my decks are CQ decks, I can usually say the deck is a focused deck around X theme. I still warn people if I'm playing a more malignant theme.😉
I agree with these, as there is a guy in my play group who just continues to make this estrid stax deck too powerful for the group, and I tell him he needs to tone it down, I know he wants to win but he won’t put it away, and it really is annoying when I have to pay 25 mana to attack with one creature Or can’t untap my lands, what should I do
Agree with your other members of the playgroup to all play counter decks and only use it on him once he pulls out the stax deck. Nothing beats a stax deck player scooping once he has to face 2 Talrands and a Gaddock deck
So basically:
Casual EDH: Good Luck. Have fun. :D
cEDH: Good luck having fun. >:D
This is absolutely true! I play both "casual" and competitive EDH. I have Shalai angel tribal deck and Selvala brostorm deck. I'll ask the table before each game to know what are their expectations. Every game will be fine if everybody's on the same page!
I've had a playgroup where we set a one boardwipe per deck rule. Because with 7 or 8 players at the table there seemed to be a boardwipe every two rounds.
Even if players only had two or three boarwipers in their deck.