Don't Play These "Powerful Cards" | Overrated in Commander | EDH | Commander | MTG
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2021
- The Commander's Quarters is your Magic the Gathering source that helps you Command Your Budget! Today Eddie joins Mitch to talk about "Powerful Cards" that aren't actually good or ones you don't need in Casual Commander!
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Игры
It’s okay if someone board wipes my mana dorks they’ll have to sit there and watch me mourn the loss of each individual creature as I slowly reminisce the time I spent with each one
You have likes
What is mana dork
@@bennycostello2472 Another term for mana rocks. Mana artifacts.
@@Goldschmitt no aman dorks refrence a creature that taps for mana atleast thats what my play groups refrences them
@@valornetwork508 Exactly. Mana dorks are creatures, rocks are artifacts, instants and sorceries are rituals, enchantments that make mana are... I think also rocks because there's no enchantments that make mana and have a snappy name.
Dark ritual can be pried out of my cold dead black playing hands
It likely will not be, as you should be able to use the tempo advantage to defeat your crass, Ritual-hating opponents.
Dark Ritual is the bomb, idk what they're talking about.
And even then good luck because you would have glued them to your cold dead black playing hands!
I laughed too hard at this comment
Speak it brother! I will not give up my turn 2 Stickfingers kill. I play Black because I crave power!
“Name a card”
Obelisk the tormentor
Left Arm of the Forbidden One
BFM
Crossout Designator in response naming Crossout Designator
@@abnormallynormal8823little D
34:43 I was at a table once around '17-'18 (before Oracle was printed) and I witnessed someone mill their entire deck looking for their wincon before their turn, which happened to be at the very bottom. It remains by far my favorite player death.
Let me guess, wayfarers bauble is number 1 but you should still use it
You...I like you.
🤫 watch it, Mitch might give us more homework.
Lol it's literally better than every card in the thumbnail, except maaaaybe lotus petal
23:23 mentions @Wayfarers Bauble
Am I crazy or am I missing the point of the Bauble in mono color decks?
To be fair, fetch lands are now the cheapest they’ve been in a long time. If you’ve been waiting for a good time to get fetch lands, it’s probably now.
@@XCodes unless you're playing 5C commander in CEDH, you'll always want all 10 🤣
Yes please buy them so mine will recover value
@@Dark-Pikachu1 Only if you are trying to bump your power level down a little bit.
@@Dark-Pikachu1 I only run rakdos, sorry can't help you.
Lands are the one thing my playgroup doesn’t care if you buy proxies of it doesn’t make ANY SENSE to buy the lands mtg is producing hop on wish and buy some proxies as long as they look decent and people can read them who cares
I definitely think, synergy over precieved "power". This is because even something janky can be powerful so long as it synergizes.
nothing proves this more than Brass' Bounty in Korvold
@@verumnosgrohiik926 you got it king!
Instert my historic “Thiccforceone” deck on arena
Like Orvar
Like Mitch’s Lord Tribal?
Mystic remora still does work in casual decks
This
Yeah. Putting players off of their ramp for the first 2 or 3 rounds can completely change how the game plays out.
I was coming to say this, exactly. Completely agree.
Budget and casual don't mean "all creatures". Even Mitch has his Jhoira deck (or the Jori En variant he used in Quest for the Janklord) that would trigger the hell out of a Mystic Remora.
Soooo much work. I often see it essentially ancestral recall or better. Totally worth a slot.
Also funny that the budget channel touted the $30 card over the $10 card.
I mean... Brainstorm is not only good when you can shuffle. It is also great if you are self-milling and you want something in your GY - be that because you want to use it later, or out of the way.
It also triggers things that care about drawing so for one mana draw three can be big value lol
Or if you want to manipulate the top of your library like when using Cascade, Galea, Kindler of hope, or miracle cards
Or if you have "Search your library, put into play" cards and the card you want is currently in hand.
Like in a Dragon's Approach deck and you draw Utvara Hellkite or something similarly expensive.
There’s tons of synergies with brainstorm copying the spell with Kalamax or recasting it with Kess that’s why it’s widely used. It’s just not as strong as when cedh had it but rock solid card.
Casual decks also run a ton of effects like Rampant Growth, which shuffle your library. Sword of the Animist. Any tutor, even cheap ones like Diabolic. Frankly there’s a ton of ways to shuffle your library that don’t involve fetches so there’s no reason why you strictly need them.
Plus, often enough you just needed to dig three cards deep to find a land drop or a mana rock but the rest of the cards are still useful so you don’t mind putting them away only to draw them next turn.
Also, don’t forget that a lot of alternatives like Ponder are Sorcery speed, which is a HUGE reason why Brainstorm is better.
I feel like if I was playing with Mitch, and I Mental Misstepped his Bauble, he would be my enemy for life
I was gonna say follow it up with a Flusterstorm, but I like Dustin’s answer better
With enough time and tuning, many Commanders will go from "casual/bad" to "optimised". Optimised deck tend to go fast. Unless they want to be a spectator for half an hour, players will improve on their deck, its just a natural process for MTG players...
Casual means bad. Idk how else you could describe it. An optimized deck isn't cedh. You can tune your Myojin deck all you want you'll never be cedh. Cedh decks are the best commanders with well established strategies and every high lvl card you could reasonably play in that strategy. You could stumble into a cedh lvl deck over time but, not from any starting point. If I'm playing some no name commander and stomp a table with tier 1 commanders that doesn't mean I'm playing cedh their decks are just bad
@@Paul-tr8bk Casual doesn't mean bad at all.
Casual decks are better for what they're designed for (having a splashy fun casual game) than a cEDH deck is for that same purpose.
Not every deck is designed to win as fast as possible. A good deck is a deck that does what you want it to do.
@@Vex-MTG I'm not hearing a difference. You play fun/splashy cards so your deck is slow and doesn't win as often. If your deck doesn't win very often most people would say the deck is bad. Sure when you get the nuts draw with your goat tribal deck they'll say that was cool and you'll have fun but, that doesn't mean you're playing a good deck. If the deck does what you want and you enjoy it keep playing it but, I'm not magically playing a different format just because I'm winning every game your deck is just bad
@@Paul-tr8bk I don't completely disagree with some of what you're saying but cedh isnt completely restrained by playing the "best" commanders only. There are people that brew cedh decks and you can still play cedh with commanders that aren't consider the top of the best cedh commanders at all and you can still get away with playing commanders that were ONCE at the top of CEDH but are no longer considered the tier 1 cedh cards (like the ancient cedh commanders from 2013 vs today). There are "tiers" within cedh and janky / home brewed cedh decks too and they still put up an interactive fight with a top end cedh deck and will still get in wins. It is NOT completely commander reliant (but the higher tiers are proven to be goodand efficient so people play them since they advance your win more / give you card advantage or fuel your win con). As long as your deck has an efficient way of winning consistently and it's optimized to execute that win while also interacting with others and protecting your win while keeping up with the speed of the other players then it's cedh.
A few of the cedh RUclips channels have games with $100 budget decks and other janky not top tier commanders and they still last 10+ turns and get some wins againt the non budget decks and can shut them down or deny their win.
@@Paul-tr8bk, this mentality is really an issue in the MTG community. It tends to force new players out and a major reason why the prices of nonsense cards have skyrocketed. Winning a lot in casual doesn't mean you will win a lot competitively. Conversely, playing a competitive deck in casual is boring as hell. The purpose of casual is not to win, it's to play the cards and decks you paid for and have fun doing it. Competitive is meant to win as many games as possible as fast as possible. It's the difference between long distance running and sprint running. The fact that I have to spell this out says enough.
I think a big part of Brainstorm in casual decks is there are still a TON of "when you draw a card x happens" cards and for 1 mana a person can trigger this effect THREE times. 👍
You're definitely my favorite EDH channel on RUclips. Some of the other channels make these huge sweeping declarations about what is and isn't good, despite EDH being a pretty fluid play group to play group format and Mitch I think is very good about that fluidity. If I wanted to play a more quantified format instead of how huge and varied edh is, id play standard.
In my opinion the best part of magic is that it’s a living game. Decks don’t have to be finished one day and then never adjusted again. Save you deck lists and try experimenting with new cards and play styles, it can be really educational and fun to see magic from all aspects:)
Underworld Breach decks when they see lotus petal: 😍
Dargo the shipwrecker approves of both lotus petal counting for 1 red and 2 generic mana and underworld breach also can help Dargo only cost 1 red mana to cast.
I love Jeweled Lotus later in games. Since all the commanders I run are pretty much “kill on sight”, any way to save mana on the tax is welcome. I certainly wouldn’t pay 100 for it, but I got lucky and pulled one.
Right? Like, I run Jeweled Lotus for commanders I want out ASAP. And ya know what I want them out ASAP? Because they're extremely powerful and my deck runs better when they're doing their thing, which MEANS, there's a good chance it's gonna eat removal a couple times!
Any deck that SHOULD be playing Jeweled Lotus will want it early, as well as later on.
I put mine in my Hans deck. Silly commanders coming down three turns early is fine, right?
I run it in my Gishath deck, pooping out Gish on turn 3-5 when there are small blockers out, really makes my deck pop off. I've even gotten her out as early as turn 2. Plus with 8 being the mana value, if it gets removed then I can use lotus later in game to skirt the commander tax.
I used to not run mana dorks in my “casual” decks back in the day for the reasons you described. However I’ve recently added them back because of all the new green card draw that depends on creatures etb. But I do try to pick the ones with the most synergy with the deck.
I had the opposite effect on my casual decks over time.
My first deck was an angry omnath deck that has roughly 30 mana sources and none of them except tangled florahedron are mana dorks. I usta have all the one cost dorks but with elemental bond and the garuks enchantment draw if the creature has power 4 or more. The dorks dont draw cards but ramp spells do with omnath out and they are safer. Now i have about 30 decks most have green and some of em dont run sol ring cus rampant growth is jus so good, and few run dorks they jus aren't good enough in most decks.
In my marath and animar decks i only run birds and goose and avacnys pilgram for marath jus so i could get them out on turn 2, but i would rather have utopia sprawl in most decks. Marath needs alot o mana for his ability so i run wilderness reclamation and just regular ramp cus that deck doesnt have too many creatures jus stuff to take advantage of his tokens and counters. My animorph deck could draw from dorks with lifecrafters bestiary or gaurdian project but id rather just have more morph creatures and dorks dont really matter cus all my stuff is free and there is that enchantment that lets you put a basic into play whenever you play a morph. Gotta korvold lands decks thats pretty much just omnath and gitrog monster with no mana dorks either. My muldrotha primal surge deck with all permanents doesnt run any mana dorks cept tangled florahedron only guys that sac them to search for a land like steve. My nethroi graveyard deck only has the hexproof wall that taps for any color cus of its keyword. My tuvasa the sunlit doesnt use mana dorks or ramp spells jus enchantment ramp. I got a roon flicker deck that uses the blue pirates that make treasure as my ramp cus they go infinite with deadeye and panharmonicon and flickering dorks just to draw from gaurdian project isn't what i wanna do. I gotta marael naya beasts deck with no dorks but lots of fattys and a tasiger sea creature deck that just uses the green for ramp spells to get to cast my big blue levithans and krakens. And finally i have a jund wither deck where green is actually tertiary so i have very little ramp at all cus its a aggro deck with cheap rakdos cards and just a few green wither cards like hipatra and morselhorder.
Like most green decks i have dont have mana dorks only my mono g omnath runs all the one drop dorks and my tuned 5c horde of notions runs a few but only ones that also fix otherwise its maybe a birds and goose for my green decks. I replaced most my dorks with search for tomorrow or utopia sprawl. Exploration and burgening are also way better than dorks but also a lil expensive. Dorks work great with the great henge but thats a 40 dollar card i only got 1 of em.
Excuse me sir, Llanowar Elves is one of the best cards in my mana dork tribal commander deck that gets a bunch of mana dorks out and does nothing else
That's kinda just Elfball - play dorks, use them to make mana, use the mana to draw more dorks, then you untap, cast Torment of Hailfire for 86 and win.
Druid tribal is nasty with Chulane and the tap 7 druids to steal all of a players lands druid. Great "be a jerk" deck.
I will say some cedh decks are also quite creature heavy. Blood pod is a personal favorite cedh deck of mine and it’s a fun creature beat down strategy and slows down the board to stop the fast combos.
I respect Blood Pod players. I see you homie.
Totally. I have a proxy Blood Pod deck I love. I also saw a Tymna|Kamahl hatebears list a few weeks ago that piqued my interest.
Poor blood pod fell off hard tho lately
Hey mitch you should do some more 10$ decks as the ones you made have gone up since you made them. They are a good way to get new players as they are better than the precons
That's kind of the exact reason why his base price for his decks has gone up though: the other deck prices have gone up. As people realize that budget cards are actually good, their prices inevitably rise as people buy up the cheaper options, leaving the more expensive ones to set the price. So it's inevitable that the decks will get more expensive and that former budget staples will get too expensive unless they're printed into oblivion. Wayfarer's Bauble suffered from this fate.
The whole game has gone up in price. Most of those $10 decks he made, where a couple of years ago, before the EDH craze.
I believe it's impossible nowadays, even for Mitch, to make a $10 deck (even discounting the commander and the basic lands).
Mitch's decks have gone up in price but also in power and infinite combos which I find much less fun. I wouldn't build many of Mitch's new decks as they focus on power more than fun now imo.
Everyone is complaining about prices going up but I still go to the local store where I can get 20 wayfarer's baubles for a buck in the 5 cent/common bin. Stop feeding into this crazy cost machine and support local stores.
To those who downvoted:
The alt title is: cards you should run in cEDH, so either way this is useful.
One nice thing about brainstorm is that if you draw over 7 and have a really nice hand full of cards you don't wanna get rid of, you can essentially save a couple cards in your hand for later, and discard a couple of garbo cards from the top of your library.
These cards are all extremely playable, 1 mana dorks are great, and mystic remora is a great early source of card draw.
This seems to be a casual and budget episode where they point out cards budget or casual players don't use LOL
@@michaelgierusz5754 Maybe, but mana dorks are still great in casual as many, many decks have multiple creature synergies that they play well with
@@rodgerlang884 yeah thinking a mana dork is overrated is weird haha
@@michaelgierusz5754 yeah they really help get you going. And they’re dirt cheap
Mana dorks are good if they synergize, and I love Mystic Remora. However, if you're running dorks just for ramp, then run dorks that tap for colors different from what you paid (Elves of Deep Shadow cost green but don't tap for green), and remora is bad if your opponents don't cast many non-creature spells (which can definitely happen).
After seeing Dark Ritual in there I though of using it as a way to hide your usable mana. The problem is I don't know if I can use it in the scenario in my mind.
So we are on the beginning of an opponent's combat phase, I have one land untaped with Dark Ritual and Hellish Rebuke(3 drop instant) in my hand. Can I do two separate responses to be able to cast Dark Ritual then Hellish Rebuke during another part of the combat phase?
You cannot do that - mana empties from your mana pool at the end of each step and phase. However, you can absolutely cast Dark Ritual during the declare blockers step (after they've attacked and can't take it back), then cast Hellish Rebuke off the ritual mana, then move to combat damage (when all the creatures will die). Or cast it during the beginning of their combat phase to tell them they should swing at someone else. You can also use Ritual in response to a spell on the stack - cast Ritual, let it resolve (first in, last out), then cast your response, then allow the initial spell to resolve.
I'm using Brainstorm in my Kalamax. It's a cheap spell to get Storm count up and as an extra bonus if I also have Niv-Mizzet, Parun in play and copy it enough times it's a lot of damage.
Can't help my self elfs one drops are apart on my decks I got so many of them even just have deck thats all mana tap dorks there too good and classic card
I mean my commander is also an elf that makes mana, albeit not conventionally (Grand Warlord Radha) and I like having her out and swinging turn 2 or 3.
I agree. They help me ramp to my commander. Sure they may not stick around forever but usually at least a few turns. If I draw them late there's always skullclamp to draw into something more impactful.
Elves are absolutely amazing with 4 cost commanders. T1 land, elf. T2, land, commander. Awesome fun.
wait a video that does not deal with the next upcoming set? is that allowed?
This comment is for Eddie's question at the end. My play group plays 90% of the cards you discussed but we are by no means competitive edh. We don't allow extra turns or infinite combos And every player usually gets close to 10 turns and the games last over an hour. We just enjoy the efficiency and have the money to spend lol. Loved the video guys.
Actual episode starts around 7:21. What is this the Command Zone?! 😂
Playing these cards will really depend on your deck's strategy. Many decks might not need any of them but there is always something you can build that might use one of em.
Technically beholders have been in the game since the first changeling 🤔🤔
Technically, that's not true either! The comprehensive rules have a list of all existing subtypes and Beholder was just added: magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/comprehensive-rules-changes-2021-07-15 > Subtypes
Not trying to be snarky for the record. I think it's funny that WotC keeps track of all the subtypes.
@@eddie_cq8276 No problem i just thought it was a funny thing 👌👌
@@pajoulrod yup according to ruling for arcane adaption creature type must be existing in magic so all creature types must also.
“To choose a creature type, you must choose an existing creature type, such as Vampire or Knight.”
So in my Atraxa Deck I run a 4 cards tutor package to make sure that I‘ll definitely see my combo pieces early as possible and it’s absolutely crushing 👌🏼
Mana dorks are still good in casual. Enacting your game plan at a better time is worth the loss in mana that comes from a board wipe. The difference is that in casual your game plan should provide value that lasts throughout a long game, whereas in cEDH you are looking for a compact and resilient way to just win.
I use dark ritual, but it's as a finisher card. Twleve copies of it going into exsanguinate twelve times is a fun overkill win condition for late game. Completely unnecessary to deal that much damage, but feels good to win the game dealing hundreds of damage to everyone at once.
I have a friend who used to play in a competitive environment, but at my LGS we play very casual. I never wanted to play with him because he would always do some turn 2, one mana instant win BS, while I'm sitting with three goblins on the board. So one day he said "I didn't bring a deck, let me use one of yours." So I handed him my janky Pirate tribal theft deck. He loved it. He had never seen a game where people built up a large amount of stuff on the board, interacting with other players and actually doing things. I started picking out random legendary creatures and describing how I would build a deck around them. I've "deprogrammed" him, he's working on an Abzan deck based off one of the Ikoria precons.
Cedh decks run way more interaction on average than non.. your friend sounds like a pubstomper
I don't run Ad Naus anymore in my K'rrik cEDH deck. I hit Vilis and Peer Into The Abyss too many times.
"Overrated in Casual" not overall in commander
Since more people play casual than cEDH, they're overrated in more games than they aren't. So overall, yes, they are overrated. In a tiny, niche sub-format they aren't, but overall they are.
If I play ad nauseum in casual. I am winning a majority of the time.
@@andrewsparkes6115 The problem is that Mitch’s eye for power level is pretty poor LOL.
@@MekanikKommandoh88 I am merely talking about OP's comment, the use of "overall", and the internal logic of that sentence: You cannot say "something is true in casual commander, but not overall in commander", because cEDH is such a tiny subset of all commander games, if something is true in casual commander, it is by the law of averages also what is overall true about the format. It'd be like saying "private jets are unaffordable for people with normal 9-5s, but not overall for employed people" - if you are talking about everyone overall, then yes, it is unaffordable. Same here - everyone, overall, IS playing casual, so what applies to it is also what can be said as the "overall" blanket statement which does apply go most people playing commander.
Birds of Paradise was the first card I pulled in my adventure into MTG. It tends to find a spot in every deck.
I got extremely lucky and pulled a Dark ritual from a Strixhaven booster pack. Also got Ad Nauseum a while ago but didn’t know it was as expensive of a card as it was.
Oooh a podcast episode! Much excite ^-^ and hi Eddie!
Hello there!
I have been told to "Blame Eddie" multiple times
i use tainted pact as an instant speed demonic tutor, which still has the randomness of having each card only once. (i only bought it because i loved the art)
I’ve always found remora good, paying for it for two turns becomes a 4 cost draw spell that I often find draws 3+ and disrupts others peoples ramp plays.
23:16 Hey!!! 😡 then 55:21. My new Commander: Adventures in the Forgotten Realms printing is on pre-sale for $1.64 right now; otherwise, my lowest TCGPlayer market price is currently $3.07 for my The List printing.
Hi Eddie!
Hi friend! Glad you saw your callout there :)
@@eddie_cq8276 Hey back! Tell Mitch I've moved up in the world 😉
My Mowu (Loyal Companion) brew uses both creature and non-creature ramp, and wants to put +1/+1 counters on creatures, which works especially well with Fertilid, since I can keep ramping as long as it has has the counters. I also have some decent mono-green graveyard recursion which helps to keep commander tax down, and revives creatures like Yavimaya Elder, so I can get the land and draw the cards. Llanowar Scout helps to put the lands from my hand onto the field. Ordeal of Nylea is great in the deck, especially if I stick it on Fertilid, so I can keep getting counters on it, and I can keep taking them off. The mana dorks put in some pretty dang good work, especially when it comes to activating other permanent abilities.
Honestly, I’ve played a ton of Green through a lot of years, in a lot of formats, so I’m pretty confident when I say the following:
If you’re trying to rely on mana-dorks in the same way you might rely on land-putting spells, you’ve kinda missed the point.
The one-cost elves are there to help you slap out a couple of four-drops, or even a three and a four, to get you out in front. *Anything* you get out of them post turn three, four at the latest?
That’s just gravy, *NOT* something that should be a big part of your overarching game-plan.
Now, obviously the two, and *definitely* the 1G 2C guys that can individually match your entire land-based mana pool are a different matter. I would hope you have plans to protect such significant investments, but yeah, whole different thing.
Dorks are flatly better than one-offs under all but the most rarified circumstances, but only situationally and very temporarily, superior to just digging out and cheating in more lands. (That’s why Fastbond is banned, hint hint.)
Edit: Re: Timetwister: You’re not really accounting for the old timers who just got them like any other card, and have simply cared for and held onto them.
I started playing in late ‘94, and bought my first for 55$. I won my second at a 4 of Anything, Run What You Brung tourney in 1999, and even then, an Unlimited Twister could be snagged for 440-475$. Expensive, but hardly the insanity of today.
As a reminder: In late ‘94 you could pick up a NM Beta Lotus for 700$ in an AO-Hell Trade-channel, or as low as 550$ if you *really* beat the bushes. My Mom and Grandma joined forces to buy me mine as a high school graduation present in ‘96, to give me in ‘97.
There really was a time when 150,000$ relics were just cardboard you got in a pack. The guy who sold me the playset of Taigas I still have (For 20$, total), had an entire binder page front-and-back full of them. That took him traveling all over the country for a couple months, and a few thousand dollars, but more like 8k than 8 million.
Those guys are still out there. They just get rarer all the time. Theft (Like my case, where I lost a 1/3 of a collection and the 9.) Death, even just cashing out when it came time to close on the picket fence.
would you be better off using visions/mirage fetch lands, come into play tapped, but effectivly similar. or my favorite fetch land, thawing glacier.
You said that there may be a reason not to play mana crypt/sol ring. I don't run them in yidris (When he deals damage, spells in my hand gain cascade) because when i cascade for a spell on cost 1/0 i am expecting something big like inevitable betrayal or mystic remora.
Something that definitely adds to the numbers is that the majority of cEDH play groups (mine included) are fine with proxies. They wanna play against your brain, not your wallet.
I play Lotus Petal in my Sai, Master Thopterist deck. With Sai on the board, it comes with a 1/1 flyer, and with my decks synergy it can usually come back from my graveyard 2-3 times per game
I can't think of a bigger EDH power move than countering a turn one sol ring with Mental misstep
I love discussions that compare competitive Edh and casual edh, I feel like we should give more attention to the topic as it helps define what competitive and casual really are, also I love pointlessly study fun stuff
I'm personally a fan of Eddie.I think it's more because I prefer this kind of episode over deck techs and spoilers
Thing is I feel like the word competitive can be swap-able with the word expensive, the tutor, lotus, and good land cards are just expensive so the only thing making them “competitive” is that most people don’t wanna drop that much money just so they win faster, I feel like commander is more about having fun with friends and spending that much to just win faster isn’t making it more enjoyable for the whole table
Casual for some people isn’t about buying 10-20 dollar cards on eBay. It’s using 100 dollar cards they pulled in packs playing commander legends with friends.
I see Dark ritual. I agree. Play Bubbling Muck instead
Or..
Both!
I have exactly one Fetch-Land (wooded Foothills) that I got as a Box Topper of rmy Zendikar Rising Draft Booster Box. I put it in my Ur-Dragon Deck since for a five Color Deck it seemed good.
This is a great topic, and a helpful reminder we don't have to blow a lot of money on landbases.
Brainstorm is a tricky card. It draws a one-of-three card cheaply, which may be momentarily important for survival, but it doesn't do anything productive about the other two cards that might be chaff. Comparatively, Telling Time works better, despite costing twice as much mana, and has better artwork. Plus it's alliterative, a quality that is tremendously important in casual Magic. I am curious to see the overlap for this card with Talrand, who is somewhat of a budget commander phenom. I suspect popularity of certain commanders skews popularity of some of these cards that are situationally powerful but are generally not all that great in the format.
I think the missed topic of conversation that this video could have addressed is the idea that interaction is often dependent on your meta to figure out the most efficient answer, whether you're playing casual or competitive.
funnily enough ive got a few mana dorks and dark ritual in my jund dragonstorm deck, alongside traditional ramp spells and rocks, because im trying to cast a 9 mana sorcery, ideally with a storm count of 3. so one mana spells that net mana are good stuff there. carpet of flowers could probably go in too, which i mention because im vaguely aware that cedh loves that card too
I was thinking about it, and I think I'd only run jeweled lotus in my k'rrik deck. I am always needing to have the option of getting k'rrik back out quickly.
Another thing to do with brainstorm is to return basics that you either drew or already had in your hand from brainstorm. One they're top decked use something like an explosive vegetation to have them hit the field. Then you'd still have your normal play 1 land for turn. Thus, if hand with too many basics you just brainstorm + ramp card + normal land drop For 3 lands on the field with a thinner shuffled deck + smaller hand. 👍
Brainstorm is amazing in my Elsha of the Infinite deck. It lets me clear lands and creatures from the top of the library and then flash spells out from there.
Shuffle effects are not bound exclusively to fetchlands, any UG deck can run brainstorm alongside very budget ramp spells
I have run into this a lot on EDHREC with one of my oldest decks with Endrek Sahr as the commander. A lot of the cards I play might be on there, but a ton of the cards that are shown on EDHREC I know are not a good fit for the deck because I have played the deck for more then 5 years. The deck works very heavily off of high synergy cards and while it plays a lot of very powerful cards, there are some that people seem to think should be there that just don’t really work with the deck as well.
The very reason misstep is played in cedh is because of counter wars, because most blue counters run with either free or 1cmc like dispel, spell pierce, or basically another misstep. As far as I can see 2cmc is much more important to counter because of the prevalence of dockside, thassa, ubreach, many more, so spell snare might be underused, but even misstep can counter that card. Misstep can also counter silence which can end games if not countered, but I think the very reason why this card is played is because it's free and having free counterspell is always appreciated
I'm here to make sure I'm not missing any powerful cards in my casual decks....
I'm surprised you didn't mention Oppo Agent, which is reasonably powerful in a play-style that has lots of tutors, but does very little in a casual play style when you're unlikely to see a tutor all game.
I run fetch lands in my landfall deck, but won't go out of my way to run them in others. Double landfall is worth more than the fixing.
Cant forget the shuffle effect though works well with cards like sensei’s top and scroll rack
You will have to pry my Llanowar Elves from my cold dead hands.
So Mystic Remora is insane in casual games. A turn one fish in cEDH is very strong, but in casual EDH, it's not great outside of getting the odd turn one sol ring. In casual, a remora on turn 2 is actually much stronger due to the idea of ramping on turns 2 and 3. Either they feed your fish and draw you more cards or stifle your own development and put themselves behind a bit. In my experience, turn 2 remora in a slow hand is amazing because you either get free draws into your ramp that you're missing, or your opponents don't ramp themselves nearly as much and you catch up much faster.
So since you guys mentioned Brainstorm....Gush.
Casual or competitive?
I'd say shocks and fetches would run you between 80 dollars and upwards of 400 depending on how many colors you have and what set the fetch/shock is from
Idk about anyone else, but I only need 1 polluted delta. It's not like I play with more than 1 deck at a time. Here's how I keep track of cards I swap into other decks. I double sleeve everything. On the smaller inside sleeves, I take a red marker and mark the corner I see when I am flipping through cards in the deck so I can take them out. Things like fetch lands, dual lands, mana crypt, etc are super easy to identify for me without any kind of hassle. Lets me play to the maximum without paying a car price for every deck 😎
Okay, in what world is Mystic Remora not just an auto-include in literally every single Blue deck besides maybe Codie? Yeah, in casual, if you slap it on the table turn 1, you might not get great value out of it and have to pay the upkeep to try and draw a card or two. BUT, if you're not just mindlessly slapping it onto the field, as a turn 2 play, it's absolutely insane! Turn 2 is when nearly every single commander player is trying to play ramp spells and mana rocks. You're either massively hindering your opponent's development for a turn, for 1 mana, or more likely, they're just gonna feed the fish anyway, and let you draw 2-3 cards. At the very worst, Mystic Remora is a cantrip that stalls your opponents for 1 turn, because someone ALWAYS feeds the fish, and in many cases, it was draw 3 or more cards. Don't forget that later in the game, it's STILL good, sometimes even better: no one is gonna pay 4 on turn 6 to not let you draw, but a 1 card 1 mana investment is so much easier at that point that you can easily keep it around for the next turn, too, draw upwards of 4-5 cards, sometimes even more if a counterspell battle happens.
You always include Mystic Remora. It's like $4. Don't be stupid.
What are your thoughts on wandering archaic?
Love these kind of videos
You're totally right. That's what I get for talking off the cuff rather than writing it all out!
@@eddie_cq8276 It is no worries. Thank you two for making such a good show
Loved the video guys, really enjoy your perspectives. My thoughts on fetchlands for EDH: if you own them, use them. If you don’t, spend your money elsewhere.
well done guys, this video is long over due. Its great that players can see the game in a different Stand point.
I watched this video to see all the cards I should add to my commander decks
I like how this is presented. Not saying the cards are bad or you shouldn't use them but rather consider if these cards actually work for your deck.
I took a grain of salt with every word you said and now I have high blood pressure
In regards to fetch and duel lands our group allows proxy for lands. It isn't fun to have all decks have to worry about mana fixing just because we don't want to drop $$$.
This feels like it allows use to focus on our deck builds.
the rituals i only really use in my Zo-Zu deck where the whole plan is getting him on the field as soon as possible. otherwise i dont really touch them
Yuriko also loves Brainstorm. Also I find funny that Polluted Delta's percentages are reciprocal.
I do actually play Lion's Eye Diamond in my casual Mimeoplasm deck, mostly because it has a lot of synergy with what I want to do by dumping my hands into the graveyard, then the mana is just gravy :v
My favorite deck is a Morophon god tribal, and sadly my local meta is "proxy everything" so most games are borderline CEDH + a lot of wraths.
I use Jeweled lotus to make sure I can get all seven mana of his ass onto the field before turn six, so that I get at least a whole rotation to use his synergies.
i just found out edhrec doesnt collect data from tappedout anymore. does anyone have any idea why?
Because tapped out doesn't allow them too which is unfortunate. So I def recommend to players who used tapped out to have a copy of their decks on another database like Archedekt if they want it to go toward data
@@dorsalfin22 thanks!
Agree 99% with you guys. I play optimized casual decks and I use none of these cards with the exception of Demonic tutor. Even if you're not looking for a combo piece tutors help offsetting the high variance of edh decks. Not every effect has enough printed cards to ensure redundancy and that's where tutors shine for me.
Mental Misstep appears in casual edh decks for 1 reason
its name is Sol Ring
And swords to plowshares and mystical tutor and worldly tutor and nature claim and all the other 1 drops that you see in both casual and cedh.
I run mental misstep solely for sol ring.
Edit: and bauble
I like using Brainstorm with Yuriko. If u have a high cmc card in hand, Brainstorm can put it back on top of library.
You guys mentioned spending lots of money fixing the Mana base for all your decks. I think it's fair for people to proxy cards they already own. It's not practical to buy Fetchlands, Mana Crypt, etc for each deck. Plus I don't wanna have to switch cards in and out every time I use a different deck. Honestly, I don't care if someone proxies cards they don't own. The only time I think proxies shouldn't be allowed is for competition.
Great topic for a video guys. This helps people make informed decision when buying cards.
Would someone recommend some cards for a Yennett build?
Abrupt decay is *VERY* useful for getting rid of Sol Ring (and other mana rocks), Rhystic Study, Problematic Elves, and many, many other things. Yes, most significant permanents in CEDH have a CC of four or higher, but *every* game of CEDH will present you with a target sooner or later.
I have to disagree with Mystic Remora. In CEDH the card is played turn one not to draw cards, but to slow your opponents down and limit their choices. It's a blue tax card. In casual it is used on say turn 2-4 when players want to ramp and seeing as you are likely to have 1-2 players not running green, that means they need to ramp with artifacts. This turns there turn 2-3 plays in to +1's for you or they choose to do nothing. In most cases they will just let you draw a card so, 1 blue to draw 1-3 cards on the regular is good. If you pay upkeep coast of 1 next turn. Then 1 and a blue for 2-6 cards is great. I find it works quite well. Are there games where you may run into 3 players all playing creature decks, yes, but that is not common.
"Take out the Golos percentage and we'll see."
... That aged like fine wine.
At it's very worst, Brainstorm is a draw 1 at instead speed (Which also allows you to play from the best cards among your hand and top 3). Even without shuffle synergy or draw triggers, that's still not a bad ability to have access to (Even in casual games).
My mystic remora rarely draws me more than 2 cards. Our playgroup plays at around power level 7-8.
Big reason why Demonic Tutor and Grim Tutor are played less heavily than you’d expect is they’re sorcery speed and the cedh meta game revolves around instant speed instant interaction so many decks will cut Demonic Tutor.
Hahaha that's why I run tutors so my deck is more consistent. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people that say they want a different experience every time they play also love a three hour game. Which is cool I just really hate games that go nowhere fast.
Honestly the only one I really disagree with is Mystic Remora. I feel like even in lower powered decks most players are ramping turns 1-4. Turn 1-2 are mana rocks, and 2-4 are mana rocks/land searching, such as Cultivate, Rampant Growth, Gift of Estates, etc…
No one is going to NOT ramp turn 2 or 3 just so you can’t draw one card, unless they are bad at the game lol. I play decks that range from about 5-8, and they all have some sort of mana ramp that I’m looking to play early, and 95% of that is non-creature.
The only exception would be elfball decks
I would say Jeweled Lotus has another use in casual, which is for commanders with a very high CMC. For example, I have a Piru the Volatile deck. The barrier to even getting the commander out is extremely high. I do wish the $price wasn't such a barrier for these kinds of situations, and also wish Wizards would print more cards to make these kinds of commanders more viable.
Correct on the mana dork comments! xD Mana dorks are great for casual because a) they're so versatile, b) can keep the game moving and c) are easy to interact with (if we're talking casual, this is a positive not a negative). Do BWs happen? Yes, but that's something you have to get used to anyway if you're playing commander, you know your board state isn't permanent.
Also fast mana rituals - great for basically anyone. Newer, less frequent players who short themselves with poor mana hands or deck construction can still manage to make some plays because of them. More competent casual players can use the silly, big flashy spells that a lot of commander players love!
Definitely made me think about Brainstorm though, really good points - I'll find a swap!