One of the reasons people misrepresent God / are confused about God are the horrible translation errors in our bibles made by clerks of "a certain denomination". They had no clue about God's intend, so made it fit their conviction. Luckely the original line is clearly visible. 1: God created us after His own image and likeness. Gen 1:27. 2: Man fell. That is what you see in this world: lust, greed, selfishness, strange philosophies, sicknesses, corruption, terrorism, death, etc, etc. Genesis 3. 3: God, the spirit of life, manifests fully in Christ, pays the debt for mankinds fall so we can be indwelled again by His Spirit and be transformed back to origin. John 14-17. Pure grace, love, power of God for His creation. Hence the divine healing miracles and casting out of demons His first friends, i and many others experience up to this day! Some examples of these idiotic translation errors. Saved, from the Greek "Sozo" actually means: made complete, brought back to origin. Eternal life from the Greek "Zoë" means: life of God, divine life. "You will see Jesus coming on the clouds" actually reads: "You will perceive Jesus from a heavenly perspective"... who He is, what He did, who you are IN Him. "Everyone not found in the book of life will be thrown in the lake of fire" actually reads: "Everything not found in the book of life....". Jesus is the book of life, the word made flesh, the exact image of the invisible God. Through Him every lie we believed about God and ourselves will vanish into thin air. 2 cor 3:18, col 3:10. Etc. Holy Spirit brings forth after His own kind. Wrath from the Greek "Orge" means PASSION. So there is no wrath of God upon mankind. God IS love! Wrath from the Greek "Thumos" also means PASSION. There goes the "bowls of wrath" poured out by God over humanity... it's "bowls of boisterous PASSION through Christ" that are poured outt!!! Kpicic. Translated in to judgement, actually reads: "to put straight, a positive judgement. After all the Father judges no-one and the Son took upon Himself all judgement. For... God is love. Parousia. Tranlated as "second comming", means GODS IMMEDIATE PRESENCE. Etc, etc, etc, look it up in the Kittel Theological Dictionary or in any Greek/Hebrew Strong's app. It's there. So now we have ignorant preachers parotting the lie that we have to be saved from God's wrath by Jesus (who is God....) and "have to repent or go to hell and wait for the bus that gets us to heaven". Utter nonsense. In stead it is: God restores us through Christ by His own atoning blood sacrifice and indwelling Holy Spirit, from mankind's fall, to His own image and likeness (Christlikeness) because of... passion. For God so loved the world.... God cannot be tempted to do evil.... There is no turning or shifting with Him.... If you don't love you don't know God, for God is love.... The goal of all instruction is... love The Father Himself loves you.... Jesus healing all..... love Jesus raising the dead..... love Jesus casting out demons.... love Jesus controlling nature..... love If wrath would be in God, it would be the tenth fruit of the Spirit.... and it is not! So... we're made for God's image and likeness Gen 1:27. Man and woman He made them. That got lost in mankinds fall. Hence all confusion, sicknesses, allien doctrines, egoism, etc, etc. Gen 3. Now God stooped down in Christ to, by His perfect sacrifice and Holy Spirit, transforms us back to.... Gen 1:27. John 14-17. God already came full circle. Yay! For us to embrace His Spirit and be changed back to original created value, by His Spirit.
I hope so too. He's been very helpful for me deconstructing some fundamental fire and brimstone hell trauma. If I ever see him in person he's getting a big hug.
I personally think that the idea of the lake of fire is derived from the Egyptian funerary tradition and mythology of the journey though the afterlife. It is said that if the heart weighed more than the feather the soul would experience a second death. The second death included having the souls heart fed to a beast, while the soul is destroyed in the eternal burning lake of fire. If you were lucky enough to have been buried with the scarab beetle figurine which prevents the heart from testifying against the soul, the journey would continue on to the field of reeds where they would live out eternity. To my knowledge, the Greeks were educated in Egypt and borrowed heavily from their teachers.
You have the reality we live in which is shadows on a cave, according to Plato, but Hades is another step lower, where you are a shadow of the shadow of the life you lived. Bart really is a groovy guy.
Before watching this I was hoping Bart Ehrman could explain some details that would help me finally conclude that hell is not real, so that if I wanted to I could kill myself. But what happened is 42:20 , I realized hell is definitely not real, but life is more precious than I had acknowledged, because this really is all we have. That makes me want to live until my time is up naturally, rather than take matters into my own hands.
hey man I just wanna say whether u come to the conclusions hell is or isn't real to not take your life man. I'm sure people love and care about you and that's a really heavy thing for people's families or friends when a love one does that. you have alot to live for, don't miss out on it.
As a christian, i love Bart's work. To me he brings back so much biblical clarity away from 'Church Gospel'. Yes, heaven and Hell are constructs created by later church/pagan fathers, not from the words of Christ nor from the bible forefathers. Again thank you Bart Ehrman.
You can analyze the work of the "forefathers" just as well and you will discover just as much bullshit in it. The Christ is, of course, an invention. Jesus was real. He was an apocalyptic preacher and an idiot who got himself killed by the Romans. Beyond that it's pretty much all fairytale.
*"...heaven and Hell are constructs created by later church/pagan fathers...."* You are absolutely correct. When I try to explain that to church folk they generally look at me like I have a forked tongue and cloven hooves.
After listening to this interview I read parts of the apocalypse of Peter for the first time. How sick and twisted were they back then to imagine and write passages like these, twisted minds perverted by religious doctrine. It’s took 2000 years to even start recovering from these abhorrent fantasies and we’ve still got a long way to go before we are freed from them.
The implication of this is that someone has fraudulently decided that we are a special creation that has a soul, and eliminated the actual words of what Genesis says. Now all other animals don't have a soul. According to the story, all things that live have a soul. So what happened here? Forgery. That's what happened. Chalk one up for vegetarians. There Was No Continuous Hebrew Monotheistic Culture When Yahveh appeared to Moses in the Burning Bush, and announced himself as "the God of thy fathers," he was a total stranger to Moses. How do I know? Read the account. It doesn't take a scholar to read where Moses ASKS who's taking. No, Moses wasn't merely surprised at the voice…he simply didn't know what was going on. (The fact that Moses is just a rehash of the Egyptian Mises is another essay altogether. But for the purposes of this essay, I'm pretending that Moses was a real person.) Moses did not know this Yahveh, and had never heard of him. So that he asked, "What is thy name?" -so that he could report it to the people back home in Egypt, who had never heard it. After some intermission, the God came directly to the point, and declared-here are the exact words-one of the most notorious falsities in the Hebrew text: "And elohim spake unto Moses, and said unto him., anoki Yahveh -- I am the Lord! "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of el-shaddai, but by my name Yahveh (JEHOVAH) was I not known to them." (Ex. 6:2, 8.) The Hebrew God for the first time since the world began, is "revealed" to mankind the "ineffable name" of Yahveh, here first appearing in the Bible translations, and there printed as JEHOVAH in capital letters; for more vivid and awe-inspiring impression. But this is a notorious lie-since we known that Moses did not write the first five books of the Hebrew text. In Genesis 2:4, the name YAHVEH first appears; "in the day that Yahveh-elohim made the earth and the heavens." Its first recorded use as a mystical personage, was when Eve "conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from Yahveh-the Lord." (Gen. 4:1.) The personal name YAHVEH occurs in the Book of Genesis one hundred and fifty-six times. It's spoken dozens of times by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as any one can read in Genesis. Every single time that the title "the Lord" and "the Lord God" appears, it is a false translation by the priests for the Hebrew personal name YAHVEH. Throughout the Hebrew "scriptures" it occurs thousands of times: "The sacred name occurs in Genesis ~156 times; and is found in the Old Testament approximately 6000 times, either alone or in along with another Divine name." More exactly, the Tetragrammaton (YHVH), appears in the Old Testament 6823 times as the proper name of God as the God of Israel. As such it serves to distinguish him from the gods of the other nations." Thus was the Hebrew tribal god YAHVEH distinguished from Bel, and Chemosh, and Dagon, and Shamash, and the dozens of "gods of the nations". Just as James would distinguish his name from Rudolph, or Cary, this was precisely the Hebrew usage-to distinguish one heathen god from another.
30:00 smh Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear him, which after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, Fear him. Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
What exactly is breathtaking about his scholarship? He's an atheist for hire pushing self-debunking pseudo-intellectual nonsense on his gullible amen choir.
I like the conversation at the end about the Greek word "ecclesia". I found it fascinating that the word that's commonly translated to "church" in the New Testament isn't a word that means physical buildings, but rather the gathering of people. Some of the earliest churches were modeled on basilicas, which were Roman buildings--usually built near forums--meant for public use and hosted a gathering of citizens for courts and other civic functions. Basilicas were modeled after stoas in the Greek-speaking world, which served a similar purpose since Classical Greece; an inside-area--alongside the agora or marketplace--where people gathered to discuss ideas, engage in religious services, or any number of other functions.
How can one be joyful in heaven when their loved ones isn’t there but in torment for eternity? I believe that those in heaven would be in hell themselves to see and witness that
Let's say all your "loved ones" made it in the door to heaven, but some of their "loved ones" didn't. - - - Would that mean that you could be "joyful" in heaven, but some of your "loved ones" would have their "heaven" ruined for them, by being unable to be "joyful" in heaven? ? ?
@@nasishehim there is no validity in relationships in the afterlife? The afterlife is the recreation of the new earth, which is patterned after Eden. Adam and Eve did not have a relationship? God created each of us to have a relationship
@@theartzscientist8012 In essence he does not affirm your ideas about God. Perhaps your ideas are mistaken? More importantly remember Ehrman's scholarship is as a historian, not a theologian. Finally, your reply only states your opinion Ehrman is wrong. You do not cite any specifics.
"Hell" came from Greek mythology. This isn't mentioned that much in the Torah, barely in psalms, certainly not the way christians talk about it with fire and stuff.
It was originally the "weeping and gnashing of teeth", I think, no doubt accompanied by the rending of garments. The threats of hell were used to stop you coveting your lord's money, his wife or indeed his ass.
The equivalent to hades in the Christian scriptures is sheol. There’s no change. The only weird mention is one of Jesus’ parables where he says that someone that had been rich dies and is suffering and speaking to Abraham. But other than that, Jesus and the apostles taught that the dead were just dead.
@@heyalun Most of it was reversal of the idea of heaven. Heaven was above, so it was bright, airy, offering a clear view of everything and everyone. It was basically inherited from the Greek idea of Mount Olympus. Hell was obviously below ground and magma coming through volcanic eruptions was a clear indication of what was below. It was unbearably hot, crowded with millions of sinners reincarnated for torture, and dark except for the blazing fires of magma. The environment of hell, minus the demons torturing the multitudes of unrepentant sinners, is pretty much the same as the conditions which exist in the mantle layer of the earth.
@@heyalun Well, they could feel the pain of the tortures, otherwise there wouldn't be much point having them. Maybe "reincarnated" is the wrong word but certainly, the threat of hell was designed to involve heat and pain.
Christians will sometimes claim to understand why someone might want to invent heaven but ….WHO, they ask, would ever invent “hell”? The answer is, of course, for all the people you don’t like! “We are the pure and chosen few and all the rest are damned. There’s room enough in hell for you; we don’t want heaven crammed.”
Just make sure you don't follow him into the abyss, from which there is no return, on Judgment Day. On that day there will be overwhelming joy for some, overwhelming sadness for others, and overwhelming anger (gnashing of teeth) for others.
@@asmartbajan I tend to believe that if there was a God, he would not torture most of his creation for thought crimes. These are scare tactics. I kind of pity you if you still believe in such things.
@@redshiftexperiment Looks like you will be among the angry on that day. But you won't have any real justification to be angry with Him. We are in the Age of Grace. Take full advantage of that, because the opportunity to do so will not be there in the next age. Our lives in this realm are incredibly short - less than 3 billion seconds for the great majority of us. Conversely, the life to come is eternal. *Choose wisely.*
@@asmartbajan since you believe in hell I would be a bit more careful if I were you. YOU WILDLY CURSE ME TO SAY THAT I WILL BE DAMNED TO HELL! BITE YOUR TONGUE YOU ARROGANT LITTLE MAN! I hope your sure of yourself that I dont have the spirit of God in me. Because for a believer like you, more caution should be taken. "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but (O)the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word (P)against the Son of Man (Q)will be forgiven, but (R)whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in (S)this age or in the age to come."
In reference to the Greek, Homeric concept of the afterlife,what wasn't mentioned was the Elysian Fields, which contrasts with the rather bleak depiction of Hades as a pleasantly blissful afterlife. The Greeks were as fuzzy as the Hebrew concept as to what to expect as well as some clear instructions on how to exercise control over one's final destiny.
The popular Christian conception of heaven and hell is remarkably similar to the Buddhist description of these realms. There are a lot of flipped parallels between the two traditions. The meaning of "醍醐" and "Christ" is one of them.
Not really. I mean, the idea of reward for the just and punishment for the unjust in the afterlife has been reinvented by several cultures over the years. Buddhist narakas are actually rather distinct from Christian hells when understood in this broader context. Christian Hell has more in common with Egyptian, Hellenic, and Zoroastrian places of punishment.
It sounds like you do not know much about Buddhism. It also looks like you do not have the guts to respond when you are challenged on your incorrect information.
Mitch, just found your channel. You're an excellent interviewer. Excellent production. I love Dr Ehrman. Really appreciate your interview. Subscribed. What a list of interviews!!
I think it's a pretty big tell that God isn't behind Christianity when Judaism has no conception of an afterlife or heaven and hell in its scriptures. That's pretty central to Christianity and even Islam. Why would that be omitted? Not to mention the peculiar coincidence that the ideas of heaven and hell are related to Zoroastrianism and other beliefs in the mid-5th century BC + time period.
There are references to the afterlife in the Old Testament. Job said, For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms shall destroy my body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. (Job 19:25-27) The prophet said, And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2) The Psalmist wrote, But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth. (Psalm 63:9) Also we read, For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell. (Psalm 86:13) The words ‘lower parts of the earth’ and ‘lowest hell’ speak of different degrees of punishment as confirmed in the New Testament when Jesus spoke of some people’s judgment as being more tolerable while others would receive the greater damnation (ref. Matthew 10:15, Matthew 23:14). Jesus spoke of hell to the Jews in the account of Lazarus and the rich man as found in Luke 16:19-31. He made many reference to a literal hell on a number of occasions (Matthew 10:28, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, etc.) God provided a way for us sinners to escape his just wrath in hell by sending his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to suffer for our sins, his innocent blood shed, that we might be forgiven (John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Each person is called to put their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and thereby receive the gift of eternal life (Romans 6:23).
@@sdlorah6450 I appreciate all the quotes. But it still seems extremely scant in the Hebrew Bible. The Jewish belief is nothing like what Christians believe, which is mostly apocalyptic
@@AB-et6nj Jesus said that salvation is of the Jews (ref. John 4:22) The Son of God was born of the Jews; he was without sin and therefore could be the sacrificial lamb who bore the sins of the whole world (Isaiah 53:4-6). Salvation and all that it means as well as God's wrath in hell are expounded upon in the New Testament. The New Testament makes frequent references to the Old Testament in these explanations.
@@sdlorah6450 But if there was always original sin (because of Adam and Eve) then why didn't God tell the Jews this? Or that their punishment would result in hellfire? Why was it only in Christianity that this was a problem?
@@AB-et6nj Just a sampling of Old Testament verses about God and his wrath are listed above; there are others. Adam and Eve and then Noah and his sons transmitted to their descendants a knowledge of God. God has revealed himself to all in a general sense through creation and men's consciences (see Psalm 19, Romans 2:15). In a special sense, he revealed himself to the Jews, the Old Testament prophets, and writers of scripture to the end of making his plan known to redeem mankind through his Son's sacrificial death. Lastly, he spoke to us through his Son (see Hebrews 1:1-2). Gentile people (non Jews) living before the completion of the New Testament responded to God's revelation of himself. For example, the men of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah. The queen of the south sought out the wisdom of King Solomon (see Jonah, Matthew 12:41-42). We have the whole counsel of God in the completed Bible; we live AFTER the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. We have much more than the men of Nineveh or the queen of the south had; God said that they will testify against those who rejected Jesus Christ in person in the coming judgment. For his purposes, God has chosen to reveal truth over time. He has chosen to expound upon truth over time. We can benefit from the work of Jesus Christ on the cross through simple faith in him, receiving eternal life (see Romans 6:23). Of God, the Bible says, And [he] hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us...And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent (Acts 17:26-27, 30). I recommend that you seek God humbly in calling out to his Son for forgiveness, in reading the scriptures for yourself, and in listening to Bible preaching like as can be found in Love Worth Finding with Adrian Rogers.
@@snowymountain9305 I thank you for coming back to me but my question is quite simple and would be grateful of a straight answer first please then I would be glad to move on to your questions
@@snowymountain9305 now I understand you are in my opinion on the wrong path and been misled by people who have made it christialogical and suited to mislead by incorrect translation. Please refer to Rabbi Tovia Singer for a clear simple explanation of the chapter. I take it you do not understand Hebrew then you would understand unless you wanted to deceive others then I would say goodbye. This is where the apostasy in the church will come from people understanding that they have been lied to. I would imagine that you have merely attended Bible studies with no previous experience and been brainwashed. Isiah 53 does not speak of the future at all.
interestingly enough, no near-death experiences ever report visiting hell. One is inclined to think the only hell there is, is one of our own, or others', making. A universe dominated by love would not have any room for a hell in it.
@@chiricahuaapache5132 But they did not actually die they may of been near death but not actually dead. Also they could of been on certain drug's or medicine that induce vivid dream's as such these experiences are not realable.
Actually, there are a fair number of NDEs having a "bad" experience, including "hellish" places. Something like 11%. Like the "good" NDEs reported, there are endless variations on these accounts, so it's hard to take away anything concrete. Also, people may be less likely to report these, for obvious reasons.
Constantine/Rome didn’t take over control of the church at the time of the conference at Nicea - but wasn’t it so that at this stage the Christian church had their meeting places provided for by the Roman Empire and from then on they were beholden to the Secular state for funds, favor etc. and thereby made themselves willingly the servants of Rome from that time on into the present?
I have read the entire "Commedia"(English translation, of course). "Inferno" is the most interesting by far. "Purgatorio" & "Paradiso" can be tedious at times. 😇
Plato does not get nearly enough credit for his 4th-5th century B.C.E. contribution to Jewish and Christian depictions of Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus and eternal punishment that were written centuries after his dialogues, Phaedo, Gorgias, Republic, etc.🔥🔥🔥🤔
I've been a Christian all my life 72 years. Hmm. I guess not many Christians are going to get to be saved. I gave it all up 5 years ago when I found so many people in the Bible , thousands were exterminated by God. Even little children and babies. I don't know what I'd call myself now. I love listening to your blogs, and Mythvision. I really enjoy now not having to pretend to believe. This is freedom. Thank you Sir😊
No he is NOT Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear him, which after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, Fear him. READ EZEKIEL 32
Something they didn't touch on the last segment, is Jesus used to teach in Aramaic, the gospels were written for a Greek speaking audience, so they are supposed to be translations, but in Aramaic the word "rock" is nothing like Simon, nor Peter, so there is slim to none probability that Jesus really said that.
And they shall go forth, and look upon the the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhoring unto all flesh. Old testament
Comic book stories always have some element of truth, they should not be taken too seriously. All religious texts share the same tradition as any superhero story.
If Jesus died for our sins, why would there be a judging of sinful people.....I know some people are evil and or wicked so I'm not speaking of those ones, but for ones who just simply sin and err, why would they be judged and tormented FOREVER... Also I learned that there's no literal burning flames that's meant for people to burn forever rather that, there will be an eternal distructiion for the wicked ones, after all Adam and Eve didn't even burn nor were they tormented FOREVER, but ETERNALLY DESTROYED. If we were born in sin how would it be justfied for us to be eternally tormented for sinning a short while here on Earth, that would NOT make any sense at all, let's say we live 100 years, burning or being tormented FOREVER, would never be in any way a fair punishment at all. One hundred years is by no means a comparison to FOREVER. This is my understanding from a personal study of the Bible, I know NOTHING FOR CERTAIN, as none of us do.
It's in the Bible so it can't be denied. I am a former J W so we HAD to study the Bible, supposedly daily but at least very regularly and I did just that. This is confusing, and I've been saying something was wrong for a few years now, even when I disassociated myself from the J W's. How can we get the TRUTH when there are so many different views about the SCRIPTURES. None of this is making too much sense. I know what I desire to believe and all I can do is hope in that. I can say that I do believe that, there's a CREATOR, and after that I'm pretty much lost.
Amazing how unbelievable the acumulative total of everything equalling one word "All". Whereas naturally within is "All Power" and "All Knowledge". Where as "All Laws" root from. The Laws of Motion. Which necessarily had application prior of material materializing. Exactly Three laws descibing the One Concept. Motion. The Lord of Hosts.
I prefer the tour of "hell" and "heaven" in Vergil's Aeneid. Everyone who is punished or rewarded is just there long enough to forget their old life and then they are reborn on Earth.
I've never heard any reasoning as to what keeps people in heaven from ever sinning while there. For billions and trillions of years...not one slip up of sin. Do they not have free will once in heaven? How it is different from the Earthly paradise God created, that produced sin immediately with Adam and Eve.
This is the inherent nature of flesh verses the desire to follow the Will of God. If we have a natural desire to follow the Will of God then when all temptation is removed, it should come naturally.
If you can trust a Catholic priest on the matter then, no, we can't sin in heaven. He described heaven to me as a place where we are all gathered around god's glory in eternal bliss. I was eight years old at a time. Guess what happens if you tell an eight year old kid with ADHD that heaven is the place where he has to sit still and look at a giant lightbulb all day long? You make an eight year old hard atheist in an instant. :-)
@@RomanPaganChurch And there is the person who doesn't know how the bible defines "sin". Don't worry, none of you have ever found the passage. It's too obvious to be visible to the religious. ;-)
@@IsaacNussbaum You just made a fool of yourself, kid. Good job! ;-) Having said that, at least you made one of the more interesting entries in this contest. Most people didn't get even that far.
If there’s a special place in hell for bad christians, what does that say about the doctrine’s effectiveness in influencing people to behave morally? Thanks for giving me another reason to convert to Judaism.
Convinced there’s a hell? Take a look at these verses showing *the unsaved will perish:* they’ll be destroyed and not “be” anymore: ■ “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16) ■ “For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.” (Psalm 37:10) ■ “When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever” (Psalms 92:7) ■ “As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation” (Proverbs 10:25). ■ “Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth, That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment? Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds; Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?” (Job 20:4-7). ■ “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23) ■ “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9) There’s nothing in those verses about eternal life in torment. So on one hand we have verses showing the unsaved perish: after destruction they will not “be.” But on the other hand we have Bible translations with verses about hell and everlasting punishment. What’s going on? Long, long ago the pagan doctines of immortal soul and eternal torment in hell crept into church doctrine. Translators from those churches then wrote “hell” into the Bible by mis-translating several Greek words. For example: ■ “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (Mark 9:47, KJV) “Hell” in that verse is from the Greek word γεέννῃ or “gehenna,” the dump outside Jerusalem. The trash and garbage thrown there was sure to be destroyed by the constant fire -“hell fire”- and worms (maggots) in the dump. Jesus was only saying that just as trash thrown into the dump was sure to be destroyed, the wicked would surely be destroyed. They would perish and never again “be” as we saw earlier. Here’s another verse where “hell” is from the Greek word γεέννῃ or “gehenna”: ■ “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28) Wait a minute . . . how can a soul be destroyed if it’s immortal? Was Jesus wrong? Of course not. In pagan Greek philosophy the soul was an immortal spiritual component of a person that separates from the body at death and keeps on living, forever. But in the Bible, soul refers to a person, to the self, the life -not to some sort of immortal component. For example: ■ “And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.” (Acts 27:37) ■ “The soul that sinneth, it shall die . . .” (Ezeliel 18:20). Compare that to the “soul” according to pagan Greek religion: _“Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!”_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC) What you just read sounds just like what you’ll hear in most churches today. Can you now see what has happened? Over the centuries pagan Greek religion has crept into church doctrine! Along with the immortal soul came hell, as a necessary explanation for where the unsaved immortal soul spends eternity! And what happens now, today, when people see “hell” in the Bible? They naturally conclude “Oh, so we must have immortal souls” -and the pagan doctrines live on. Did you know some later translators recognized the error of “hell” in the Bible translations? Young's Literal Tranlsation (YLT), for example, never uses “hell." The “immortal soul” has roots in Satan’s original lie: ■ “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die” (Genesis 3:4) Salvation is NOT about “where you’ll spend eternity.” *You won’t even **_have_** an eternity unless you receive from God the gift of eternal life!* Otherwise you’ll perish and no longer “be” as we saw earlier. So, what really happens to the unsaved? How do they perish? The apostle Paul wrote: ■ “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23) After resurrection and judgment the unsaved die again. It’s called “the second death” in the Bible, in Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14 and 21:8. After the second death there is no life and no hope of resurrection. It’s the end of that person; they will never again “be.” That’s what it means to *_perish._* This second death is the “everlasting punishment” Jesus spoke of in Matthew 25:46: ■ “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”(Matthew 25:46) The punishment -the second death- is everlasting in this respect: it is finished, permanent and irrevocable, like the execution of a criminal. It is not perpetual, ongoing punishing. You didn't *_really_* think the God of mercy would be a sadistic monster, endlessly subjecting the unsaved to hopeless torment, did you?
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας tell me, what illusions do all "westerns" believe? I also can't wait to hear about how you have access to all of these peoples' illusions. Do tell!
There are references to the afterlife in the Old Testament. Job said, For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms shall destroy my body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. (Job 19:25-27) The prophet said, And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2) The Psalmist wrote, But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth. (Psalm 63:9) Also we read, For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell. (Psalm 86:13) The words ‘lower parts of the earth’ and ‘lowest hell’ speak of different degrees of punishment as confirmed in the New Testament when Jesus spoke of some people’s judgment as being more tolerable while others would receive the greater damnation (ref. Matthew 10:15, Matthew 23:14). Jesus spoke of hell to the Jews in the account of Lazarus and the rich man as found in Luke 16:19-31. He made many reference to a literal hell on a number of occasions (Matthew 10:28, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, etc.) God provided a way for us sinners to escape his just wrath in hell by sending his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to suffer for our sins, his innocent blood shed, that we might be forgiven (John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Each person is called to put their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and thereby receive the gift of eternal life (Romans 6:23).
What makes religious/spiritual beliefs distinguishable from that of mere make-believe? It's ultimately a matter of make-believe, of individual interpretation.
When we died we didn’t go straightaway to heaven or hell.Our spirit are stored in a special place above the Earth in heavenly realms.If you are someone who denies the existence of your creator or attributed partner with Him then your soul will stay in the Earth until resurrection day
I'm made intensely curious about the teasingly out of focus painting behind Bart. And did I hear correctly? Did Bart state Constentine did not make Christianity the official religion of the Empire?
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it: and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged everyman according to his works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Your not just going to hell Bart, your not worried about hell alone people, eternal damnation is not in hell. It's much worse than that. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The term "Christians" were given by gentiles in Antioch to Jesus followers, not even Paul used that term, Peter used it just once to relate it to persecution. But I don't think neither any apostle developed a theology of "hell", but the had an idea of the underworld where disembodied souls go after death and they are conscious. This idea could have given birth to the idea of hell as punishment for those who reject Jesus Christ. John apostle speaks about Lake of 🔥 fire..this idea is more close to the doctrine of hell.
Hell is a pretty natural conclusion for what to do with anyone who is undesirable to the Kingdom of Heaven. And of course, the clergy would make the thing more emotional. Although demons only appear on Earth in the Bible, so they are completely unconnected with Hell in the Bible.
Same here. I was under the impression that God heard Jesus' prayer, Father forgive them (us, sinners) for they know not what they do (sin). And as he said it it finished, that mankind was finally redeemed. Giving the accounts of how many Christians were in hell, and that some of them simply because of doctrinal error, such as seeing Jesus as more of Divine than human. Wow, not sure if I can buy that. My hat is off to him for his research and and study of Patristics. But not all of the Church fathers held to this view of hell.
The redemption and forgiveness come before you die. Once you are dead, it is too late to repent. That is when the eternal damnation begins. Telling this story to children is child abuse, regularly practiced by all Christians.
@@timproffit7861 If Jesus is the father the son and the holy Spirit, why did he need to "pray" to God? He's literally just talking to himself btw, Billions of people are doing the same thing today
@@timproffit7861I come from the Catholic faith. They DEF believe in the Trinity. Even though it was conceived of in the 14th century. They don't let facts get in the way of a good story!
Shameful bigotry of not giving the fiery Hell of the Egyptians who were the rulers of the Canaanite lands far longer than the Greeks, any recognition. Nor the book of Enoch.
Modern scholarship makes the threats of hell given by every religion and every sect against every other sect in every religion, very hard to take seriously. They are wrong about so many things.
Hell predates the new testament, the apostles take the wordage from the prophetic books that they grew up reading and studying. Bart got caught up in contradictions in the gospels, he is a seed that fell by the way side.
I had to switch off, got fed up with Ehrman laughing at his own commentary. I've watched a great many of his presentations, have lost the ability to switch off when he does it, I guess it's a nervous thing but it comes across as condescending, even when what he is saying is absolutely right.
funny how much people have written about things we dont know anything about. is it fear of dead and the unknown? or is it the prise of human intelligence. we can see what we dont know and make up histories
Jesus goes to Hades? So he just decided to visit his old buddy the Greek god of the underworld? Interesting. Also, anybody else notice the similarities between "Hell" and the Germanic goddess of the dead, Hel/Hella? Personally, I'm of the opinion that the whole idea of "Hell" stems from the Germanic tribes that were giving the Romans such fits - and who ultimately finished off the Roman Empire. I mean, really... does it seem like so far-fetched a notion that when the bible was being put together, that the Roman Catholic Church would say something like "A place of punishment? Hmm... how 'bout we 'borrow' that bit about the underworld from those damned barbarians that we never managed to conquer?"
The New Testament was written in Greek. The Greek word "Hades" was used when referring to underworlds in general by the ancient Greeks, not just the Greek underworld, sort of in the same way that they called Thoth "Hermes." The Aramaic (and Hebrew) word that gets translated to Greek as "Hades" is "Sheol," which was more of a poetic term for the land of the dead that is more accurately translated as "the grave," since ancient Jews believed that the soul died with the body. "Hell" was the Germanic word for the underworld, and English is a Germanic language. So you're actually completely on the mark about where the name comes from, but it's due to translation and not intentionally copying the mythology of other cultures. That said, other words were later erroneously translated as Hell, too, like Gehenna, which was a real, physical place where the bodies of criminals were burned in a massive pit because they were unworthy of having a decent burial. This is actually where the idea of Hell being a place of fire comes from, and it's genuinely a part of Jewish tradition rather than a syncretic element from any other culture. But when Paul redesigned Heaven to be an afterlife, rather than the resurrection in New Jerusalem that Jesus promised, it also made the metaphorical destruction of the wicked in Gehenna into an afterlife, too, because the souls said to burn in Gehenna were no longer seen as mortal. This ended up implying that Gehenna was a kind of underworld, which is why it ended up being translated as such and being conflated with other references to Sheol.
@@AbandonedVoid - Hades is the ruler of the Greek version of the underworld, Tartarus. The same is true for Hel and Helheim, which is a realm in Niflheim ( Norse/Germanic underworld. ) And do keep in mind the connection between the Romans and Greece... A connection close enough that mistranslations between Greek, Latin, and the Germanic/Scandinavian languages should have been a rare thing. Those were the common languages of the day in Rome, back when the Roman Catholic Church was being formed. Anyway, the fact is that Christianity borrows or steals quite heavily from earlier religions, and has done its best to either "Christianise" or outright eradicate the earlier belief systems that were still in place when it was adopted by the Romans. That last is the reason the neopagan movement of the past 20-25 years is so wrong about so many old practices; there's just not much information left concerning the druids, or the Germanic religions. And what little we do have is written by people already converted to the Christian way of thinking.
Of course, all writings about hell by the authors of the Bible are pure speculation and supposition. None of them were ever there. What Paul thought he saw may or may not be reliable. But Jesus always wanted his listeners to focus on the positive, love, truth, beauty, and goodness.
The Apocalypse of Paul, written 300 years after the death of Paul, is not a Christian text. The description of Hell, or Sheol/ Hades given by Jesus in the Gospels matches that of the Book of Enoch, a Jewish text written 100-300 BC. Hell is not a Christian invention. The Apostle John is recorded in the Bible as saying, "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." 1 John 4 This description is of Gnostic dualism which is a false religion dating back to the time of Christ claiming the body and mind are separate, with the mind being eternal and the body being evil.
I think he’s saying that the concept of hell as a place where disembodied souls suffer for their sins is not something really in the Bible. The only mention like that is by Jesus in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. This is not a teaching on hell as much as an illustration on the change in spiritual status to come for those who listened to the prophets verses those who clung to power and rejected Jesus.
@@heyalun Funny that Jesus quoted Enoch too, however - to my recollection. It's all a bit murky, ain't it? And Jesus didn't exactly fulfil all the Prophets said of what a Mossiach was, anyway.
Gnostics were Christian and so was the Apocalypse of Paul, even if they aren't representative of modern, mainstream Christian views, and there are still Christians who believe in them to this day. You don't get to tell them that they aren't Christian just because you disagree with their beliefs.
@@AbandonedVoid I didn't tell them they weren't Christian, the Apostle John did. He said their claims were the spirit of antichrist because they denied Jesus came in the flesh. If Jesus didn't come as a man, he didn't die to atone for the sins of man and cannot be our High Priest before God. Such teachings deny Christ.
Maybe - after thousands of years of theological speculation (including some of the worser ones of Augustine, and Calvin, say) and debate, @Ana Franklin - and on monophysitism vs diphysitism, it's possible your guess is as good as many others' were, by this stage. And Christ is a title, generally - it means christened, or anointed.
Great man and info, 'but a little less laughing and a little more knowledge, please' most of his interview is taken up with his laughter 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 I bought his book , very expensive , but it's fantastic well worth the price .
Most Hate Filled is Romans Chapter 1, second part. Paul is the most Antisemitic Person in history. Read the 1611 King James Version where Paul is explicit.
“For I am not ashamed of the good news; it is, in fact, God’s power for salvation to everyone having faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.” (Romans 1:16) Wow, good news of salvation for everyone faithful, but first the Jews. How hate-filled and antisemetic!
And then it goes into that clunky, specious business in the next few verses, about how everything has been 'clearly seen and understood', despite being invisible, plus interwoven with a 'fallen' nature.
I guess there are several main reasons: 1. Like it or not, they are a significant influence (albeit indirect and now highly mediated) on our cultural life and political and legal structures etc. 2. Myths like these are often very good guides to the desires and repressions of the human psyche. (They are often just interesting stories too!) 3. It is useful to be aware when encountering apologetics.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
It's simple. I see Bart and I click.
Bart must be in big demand. He's on all the atheist-agnostic podcasts.
@@raydavison4288 Because he is trained to deceive. Professors and Dr., beware of.
One of the reasons people misrepresent God / are confused about God are the horrible translation errors in our bibles made by clerks of "a certain denomination".
They had no clue about God's intend, so made it fit their conviction.
Luckely the original line is clearly visible.
1: God created us after His own image and likeness. Gen 1:27.
2: Man fell. That is what you see in this world: lust, greed, selfishness, strange philosophies, sicknesses, corruption, terrorism, death, etc, etc. Genesis 3.
3: God, the spirit of life, manifests fully in Christ, pays the debt for mankinds fall so we can be indwelled again by His Spirit and be transformed back to origin. John 14-17.
Pure grace, love, power of God for His creation.
Hence the divine healing miracles and casting out of demons His first friends, i and many others experience up to this day!
Some examples of these idiotic translation errors.
Saved, from the Greek "Sozo" actually means: made complete, brought back to origin.
Eternal life from the Greek "Zoë" means: life of God, divine life.
"You will see Jesus coming on the clouds" actually reads: "You will perceive Jesus from a heavenly perspective"... who He is, what He did, who you are IN Him.
"Everyone not found in the book of life will be thrown in the lake of fire" actually reads: "Everything not found in the book of life....". Jesus is the book of life, the word made flesh, the exact image of the invisible God. Through Him every lie we believed about God and ourselves will vanish into thin air. 2 cor 3:18, col 3:10. Etc. Holy Spirit brings forth after His own kind.
Wrath from the Greek "Orge" means PASSION. So there is no wrath of God upon mankind. God IS love!
Wrath from the Greek "Thumos" also means PASSION. There goes the "bowls of wrath" poured out by God over humanity... it's "bowls of boisterous PASSION through Christ" that are poured outt!!!
Kpicic. Translated in to judgement, actually reads: "to put straight, a positive judgement. After all the Father judges no-one and the Son took upon Himself all judgement. For... God is love.
Parousia. Tranlated as "second comming", means GODS IMMEDIATE PRESENCE.
Etc, etc, etc, look it up in the Kittel Theological Dictionary or in any Greek/Hebrew Strong's app. It's there.
So now we have ignorant preachers parotting the lie that we have to be saved from God's wrath by Jesus (who is God....) and "have to repent or go to hell and wait for the bus that gets us to heaven". Utter nonsense.
In stead it is: God restores us through Christ by His own atoning blood sacrifice and indwelling Holy Spirit, from mankind's fall, to His own image and likeness (Christlikeness) because of... passion.
For God so loved the world....
God cannot be tempted to do evil....
There is no turning or shifting with Him....
If you don't love you don't know God, for God is love....
The goal of all instruction is... love
The Father Himself loves you....
Jesus healing all..... love
Jesus raising the dead..... love
Jesus casting out demons.... love
Jesus controlling nature..... love
If wrath would be in God, it would be the tenth fruit of the Spirit.... and it is not!
So... we're made for God's image and likeness Gen 1:27. Man and woman He made them. That got lost in mankinds fall. Hence all confusion, sicknesses, allien doctrines, egoism, etc, etc. Gen 3. Now God stooped down in Christ to, by His perfect sacrifice and Holy Spirit, transforms us back to.... Gen 1:27. John 14-17.
God already came full circle. Yay!
For us to embrace His Spirit and be changed back to original created value, by His Spirit.
@@raydavison4288do you believe in preaching to the choir
@@herminepursch2470: 🤔
I hope Bart knows how much he's appreciated.
I hope so too. He's been very helpful for me deconstructing some fundamental fire and brimstone hell trauma. If I ever see him in person he's getting a big hug.
@@jorj4270 me too. Unless he's good with a fist bump. 🤓
I personally think that the idea of the lake of fire is derived from the Egyptian funerary tradition and mythology of the journey though the afterlife. It is said that if the heart weighed more than the feather the soul would experience a second death. The second death included having the souls heart fed to a beast, while the soul is destroyed in the eternal burning lake of fire. If you were lucky enough to have been buried with the scarab beetle figurine which prevents the heart from testifying against the soul, the journey would continue on to the field of reeds where they would live out eternity.
To my knowledge, the Greeks were educated in Egypt and borrowed heavily from their teachers.
This is very interesting; thanks for your comment. Can you give some references where I might read up on this? Thank you.
@@MrRezillo ruclips.net/video/1yv_MXNYbAo/видео.html
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You have the reality we live in which is shadows on a cave, according to Plato, but Hades is another step lower, where you are a shadow of the shadow of the life you lived. Bart really is a groovy guy.
Bart is just a happy going guy good to see laughter once in a while
Hell is where we are (overcrowded); Heaven is where we are not. Choose one
Before watching this I was hoping Bart Ehrman could explain some details that would help me finally conclude that hell is not real, so that if I wanted to I could kill myself. But what happened is 42:20 , I realized hell is definitely not real, but life is more precious than I had acknowledged, because this really is all we have. That makes me want to live until my time is up naturally, rather than take matters into my own hands.
That's kinda amazing
hey man I just wanna say whether u come to the conclusions hell is or isn't real to not take your life man. I'm sure people love and care about you and that's a really heavy thing for people's families or friends when a love one does that. you have alot to live for, don't miss out on it.
Why in the world would you think hell was real? Was it because a few religious fanatics decided to write fiction on papyrus and pass it around?
Hell is real. There has to be a place for child molesters and sinners.
Oh, and don’t kill yourself! You are valued by God.
As a christian, i love Bart's work. To me he brings back so much biblical clarity away from 'Church Gospel'. Yes, heaven and Hell are constructs created by later church/pagan fathers, not from the words of Christ nor from the bible forefathers. Again thank you Bart Ehrman.
You can analyze the work of the "forefathers" just as well and you will discover just as much bullshit in it. The Christ is, of course, an invention. Jesus was real. He was an apocalyptic preacher and an idiot who got himself killed by the Romans. Beyond that it's pretty much all fairytale.
*"...heaven and Hell are constructs created by later church/pagan fathers...."* You are absolutely correct. When I try to explain that to church folk they generally look at me like I have a forked tongue and cloven hooves.
Very interesting talk. I always learn so much from Bart.
After listening to this interview I read parts of the apocalypse of Peter for the first time. How sick and twisted were they back then to imagine and write passages like these, twisted minds perverted by religious doctrine. It’s took 2000 years to even start recovering from these abhorrent fantasies and we’ve still got a long way to go before we are freed from them.
Tell me more. What did you read that was so sick and twisted? Let me know.
@@chiricahuaapache5132 the way it explicitly describes the eternal suffering of the dead. It’s backwards and perverse
That's nothing. Augustine and subsequent writers described the schadenfreude of the angels watching the torturing of the damned in hell.
@@chiricahuaapache5132 Read it for yourself.
@@curbroadshow No, I can't be bothered. You're a bit of a curmudgeon, aren't you? Are you a Fundy Xristian full to overflowing with God's love?
I really enjoyed the interview. Bart has such a wonderful way of explaining and crafting a narrative.
The implication of this is that someone has fraudulently decided that we are a special creation that has a soul, and eliminated the actual words of what Genesis says. Now all other animals don't have a soul. According to the story, all things that live have a soul. So what happened here? Forgery. That's what happened.
Chalk one up for vegetarians.
There Was No Continuous Hebrew Monotheistic Culture
When Yahveh appeared to Moses in the Burning Bush, and announced himself as "the God of thy fathers," he was a total stranger to Moses. How do I know? Read the account. It doesn't take a scholar to read where Moses ASKS who's taking. No, Moses wasn't merely surprised at the voice…he simply didn't know what was going on. (The fact that Moses is just a rehash of the Egyptian Mises is another essay altogether. But for the purposes of this essay, I'm pretending that Moses was a real person.)
Moses did not know this Yahveh, and had never heard of him. So that he asked, "What is thy name?" -so that he could report it to the people back home in Egypt, who had never heard it. After some intermission, the God came directly to the point, and declared-here are the exact words-one of the most notorious falsities in the Hebrew text:
"And elohim spake unto Moses, and said unto him., anoki Yahveh -- I am the Lord!
"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of el-shaddai, but by my name Yahveh (JEHOVAH) was I not known to them." (Ex. 6:2, 8.)
The Hebrew God for the first time since the world began, is "revealed" to mankind the "ineffable name" of Yahveh, here first appearing in the Bible translations, and there printed as JEHOVAH in capital letters; for more vivid and awe-inspiring impression.
But this is a notorious lie-since we known that Moses did not write the first five books of the Hebrew text.
In Genesis 2:4, the name YAHVEH first appears; "in the day that Yahveh-elohim made the earth and the heavens." Its first recorded use as a mystical personage, was when Eve "conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from Yahveh-the Lord." (Gen. 4:1.)
The personal name YAHVEH occurs in the Book of Genesis one hundred and fifty-six times. It's spoken dozens of times by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as any one can read in Genesis. Every single time that the title "the Lord" and "the Lord God" appears, it is a false translation by the priests for the Hebrew personal name YAHVEH.
Throughout the Hebrew "scriptures" it occurs thousands of times: "The sacred name occurs in Genesis ~156 times; and is found in the Old Testament approximately 6000 times, either alone or in along with another Divine name."
More exactly, the Tetragrammaton (YHVH), appears in the Old Testament 6823 times as the proper name of God as the God of Israel. As such it serves to distinguish him from the gods of the other nations." Thus was the Hebrew tribal god YAHVEH distinguished from Bel, and Chemosh, and Dagon, and Shamash, and the dozens of "gods of the nations". Just as James would distinguish his name from Rudolph, or Cary, this was precisely the Hebrew usage-to distinguish one heathen god from another.
@@edwardlouisbernays2469 thank you for your post. Why did you post? What are you trying to say ? Why do you use the letter “V” instead of “W”?
I love Bart he understands Christians deconverting
Yes! He has more credibility with me since he was a preacher first...he knows what it's like to lose faith....but gain truth
30:00 smh
Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear him, which after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, Fear him.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The reason women braid their hair is to keep it from tangling.
Who could believe in such an impossibly cruel and sadistic deity? Utter nonsense.
Thanks for having Bart. Aside from breath-taking scholarship, his humor is hilarious.
ever heard him laugh
What exactly is breathtaking about his scholarship?
He's an atheist for hire pushing self-debunking pseudo-intellectual nonsense on his gullible amen choir.
I like the conversation at the end about the Greek word "ecclesia". I found it fascinating that the word that's commonly translated to "church" in the New Testament isn't a word that means physical buildings, but rather the gathering of people. Some of the earliest churches were modeled on basilicas, which were Roman buildings--usually built near forums--meant for public use and hosted a gathering of citizens for courts and other civic functions. Basilicas were modeled after stoas in the Greek-speaking world, which served a similar purpose since Classical Greece; an inside-area--alongside the agora or marketplace--where people gathered to discuss ideas, engage in religious services, or any number of other functions.
Wow very interesting, a wonderful interview.
How can one be joyful in heaven when their loved ones isn’t there but in torment for eternity? I believe that those in heaven would be in hell themselves to see and witness that
Let's say all your "loved ones" made it in the door to heaven, but some of their "loved ones" didn't. - - - Would that mean that you could be "joyful" in heaven, but some of your "loved ones" would have their "heaven" ruined for them, by being unable to be "joyful" in heaven? ? ?
There's no validity for relationships in afterlife... Each person is responsible for himself only...
Their mind will be so at one with God's that they will care as much about those people as God does.
@@nasishehim must be a sociopath
@@nasishehim there is no validity in relationships in the afterlife? The afterlife is the recreation of the new earth, which is patterned after Eden. Adam and Eve did not have a relationship? God created each of us to have a relationship
... thank you so much for this amazing talk ... I eagerly look forward to purchasing Prof. Ehrman's books ...
Bart, I love your books. My favorite was How Jesus Became God. I read it three times. It really shaped my life. Thank you.
Bart isn’t right. Proof? He has a worldly degree and God doesn’t require them. He doesn’t hear God alone. Is he right about the scriptures? Yes!
@@theartzscientist8012 Where do you think Bart has erred?
@@soslothful in his lack of knowing God at all. He’s in his own understanding. He doesn’t hear God.
@@theartzscientist8012 In essence he does not affirm your ideas about God. Perhaps your ideas are mistaken? More importantly remember Ehrman's scholarship is as a historian, not a theologian. Finally, your reply only states your opinion Ehrman is wrong. You do not cite any specifics.
@@soslothful I have a calling or anointing from God himself. Erhman doesn’t. This is the difference.
Amazing as Always.
"Hell" came from Greek mythology. This isn't mentioned that much in the Torah, barely in psalms, certainly not the way christians talk about it with fire and stuff.
It was originally the "weeping and gnashing of teeth", I think, no doubt accompanied by the rending of garments. The threats of hell were used to stop you coveting your lord's money, his wife or indeed his ass.
The equivalent to hades in the Christian scriptures is sheol. There’s no change.
The only weird mention is one of Jesus’ parables where he says that someone that had been rich dies and is suffering and speaking to Abraham. But other than that, Jesus and the apostles taught that the dead were just dead.
@@heyalun Most of it was reversal of the idea of heaven. Heaven was above, so it was bright, airy, offering a clear view of everything and everyone. It was basically inherited from the Greek idea of Mount Olympus.
Hell was obviously below ground and magma coming through volcanic eruptions was a clear indication of what was below. It was unbearably hot, crowded with millions of sinners reincarnated for torture, and dark except for the blazing fires of magma. The environment of hell, minus the demons torturing the multitudes of unrepentant sinners, is pretty much the same as the conditions which exist in the mantle layer of the earth.
@@anonUK ok, but that’s not the biblical presentation. That may be a later development, but biblically dead people are dead, not “reincarnated.”
@@heyalun
Well, they could feel the pain of the tortures, otherwise there wouldn't be much point having them. Maybe "reincarnated" is the wrong word but certainly, the threat of hell was designed to involve heat and pain.
I have to comment again. This was great. Thank you LaP and Bart.
Christians will sometimes claim to understand why someone might want to invent heaven but ….WHO, they ask, would ever invent “hell”? The answer is, of course, for all the people you don’t like!
“We are the pure and chosen few
and all the rest are damned.
There’s room enough in hell for you;
we don’t want heaven crammed.”
Always a pleasure to listen to Bart.❤️
Gradation of reward? Like when the priest gets a Ford and the rabbi gets a Lincoln because the rabbi is related to the boss.
Fantastic.
Bart is one of my favorite writers and speakers. Thank you.
Just make sure you don't follow him into the abyss, from which there is no return, on Judgment Day. On that day there will be overwhelming joy for some, overwhelming sadness for others, and overwhelming anger (gnashing of teeth) for others.
@@asmartbajan I tend to believe that if there was a God, he would not torture most of his creation for thought crimes.
These are scare tactics. I kind of pity you if you still believe in such things.
@@redshiftexperiment Looks like you will be among the angry on that day. But you won't have any real justification to be angry with Him. We are in the Age of Grace. Take full advantage of that, because the opportunity to do so will not be there in the next age. Our lives in this realm are incredibly short - less than 3 billion seconds for the great majority of us. Conversely, the life to come is eternal. *Choose wisely.*
@@asmartbajan since you believe in hell I would be a bit more careful if I were you. YOU WILDLY CURSE ME TO SAY THAT I WILL BE DAMNED TO HELL! BITE YOUR TONGUE YOU ARROGANT LITTLE MAN! I hope your sure of yourself that I dont have the spirit of God in me. Because for a believer like you, more caution should be taken.
"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but (O)the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word (P)against the Son of Man (Q)will be forgiven, but (R)whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in (S)this age or in the age to come."
@@asmartbajan prove it lmao
In reference to the Greek, Homeric concept of the afterlife,what wasn't mentioned was the Elysian Fields, which contrasts with the rather bleak depiction of Hades as a pleasantly blissful afterlife. The Greeks were as fuzzy as the Hebrew concept as to what to expect as well as some clear instructions on how to exercise control over one's final destiny.
I think the Elysian fields was a later development.
The popular Christian conception of heaven and hell is remarkably similar to the Buddhist description of these realms. There are a lot of flipped parallels between the two traditions. The meaning of "醍醐" and "Christ" is one of them.
Not really. I mean, the idea of reward for the just and punishment for the unjust in the afterlife has been reinvented by several cultures over the years. Buddhist narakas are actually rather distinct from Christian hells when understood in this broader context. Christian Hell has more in common with Egyptian, Hellenic, and Zoroastrian places of punishment.
It sounds like you do not know much about Buddhism. It also looks like you do not have the guts to respond when you are challenged on your incorrect information.
Bart is a fresh air for Christianity
Bart destroys christ-stain-inanity for intelligent, rational people.
You don't really think you're rational do you
Mitch, just found your channel. You're an excellent interviewer. Excellent production. I love Dr Ehrman. Really appreciate your interview. Subscribed. What a list of interviews!!
Ahem, same here
Thank God for the Enlightenment.
The Holocausts of the 20th century had nothing to do with that, obviously.
I think it's a pretty big tell that God isn't behind Christianity when Judaism has no conception of an afterlife or heaven and hell in its scriptures. That's pretty central to Christianity and even Islam. Why would that be omitted? Not to mention the peculiar coincidence that the ideas of heaven and hell are related to Zoroastrianism and other beliefs in the mid-5th century BC + time period.
There are references to the afterlife in the Old Testament.
Job said, For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms shall destroy my body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. (Job 19:25-27)
The prophet said, And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)
The Psalmist wrote, But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth. (Psalm 63:9)
Also we read, For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell. (Psalm 86:13)
The words ‘lower parts of the earth’ and ‘lowest hell’ speak of different degrees of punishment as confirmed in the New Testament when Jesus spoke of some people’s judgment as being more tolerable while others would receive the greater damnation (ref. Matthew 10:15, Matthew 23:14).
Jesus spoke of hell to the Jews in the account of Lazarus and the rich man as found in Luke 16:19-31. He made many reference to a literal hell on a number of occasions (Matthew 10:28, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, etc.)
God provided a way for us sinners to escape his just wrath in hell by sending his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to suffer for our sins, his innocent blood shed, that we might be forgiven (John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Each person is called to put their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and thereby receive the gift of eternal life (Romans 6:23).
@@sdlorah6450 I appreciate all the quotes. But it still seems extremely scant in the Hebrew Bible. The Jewish belief is nothing like what Christians believe, which is mostly apocalyptic
@@AB-et6nj Jesus said that salvation is of the Jews (ref. John 4:22) The Son of God was born of the Jews; he was without sin and therefore could be the sacrificial lamb who bore the sins of the whole world (Isaiah 53:4-6). Salvation and all that it means as well as God's wrath in hell are expounded upon in the New Testament. The New Testament makes frequent references to the Old Testament in these explanations.
@@sdlorah6450 But if there was always original sin (because of Adam and Eve) then why didn't God tell the Jews this? Or that their punishment would result in hellfire? Why was it only in Christianity that this was a problem?
@@AB-et6nj Just a sampling of Old Testament verses about God and his wrath are listed above; there are others. Adam and Eve and then Noah and his sons transmitted to their descendants a knowledge of God. God has revealed himself to all in a general sense through creation and men's consciences (see Psalm 19, Romans 2:15). In a special sense, he revealed himself to the Jews, the Old Testament prophets, and writers of scripture to the end of making his plan known to redeem mankind through his Son's sacrificial death. Lastly, he spoke to us through his Son (see Hebrews 1:1-2).
Gentile people (non Jews) living before the completion of the New Testament responded to God's revelation of himself. For example, the men of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah. The queen of the south sought out the wisdom of King Solomon (see Jonah, Matthew 12:41-42). We have the whole counsel of God in the completed Bible; we live AFTER the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. We have much more than the men of Nineveh or the queen of the south had; God said that they will testify against those who rejected Jesus Christ in person in the coming judgment.
For his purposes, God has chosen to reveal truth over time. He has chosen to expound upon truth over time. We can benefit from the work of Jesus Christ on the cross through simple faith in him, receiving eternal life (see Romans 6:23).
Of God, the Bible says, And [he] hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us...And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent (Acts 17:26-27, 30). I recommend that you seek God humbly in calling out to his Son for forgiveness, in reading the scriptures for yourself, and in listening to Bible preaching like as can be found in Love Worth Finding with Adrian Rogers.
Thank God for this man
@@snowymountain9305 what is a bot?
@@snowymountain9305 and may God Bless you with knowledge. As I think you know and understand Scripture can I ask you what do you make of Isaiah 53 ?
@@snowymountain9305 I thank you for coming back to me but my question is quite simple and would be grateful of a straight answer first please then I would be glad to move on to your questions
@@snowymountain9305 now I understand you are in my opinion on the wrong path and been misled by people who have made it christialogical and suited to mislead by incorrect translation. Please refer to Rabbi Tovia Singer for a clear simple explanation of the chapter. I take it you do not understand Hebrew then you would understand unless you wanted to deceive others then I would say goodbye. This is where the apostasy in the church will come from people understanding that they have been lied to. I would imagine that you have merely attended Bible studies with no previous experience and been brainwashed. Isiah 53 does not speak of the future at all.
interestingly enough, no near-death experiences ever report visiting hell. One is inclined to think the only hell there is, is one of our own, or others', making. A universe dominated by love would not have any room for a hell in it.
Not quiet there are a minority of NDE's that are bad.
There are loads on You Tube, mostly by people who later write books. Just type the words, I Died and Went to Hell.
@@chiricahuaapache5132 But they did not actually die they may of been near death but not actually dead.
Also they could of been on certain drug's or medicine that induce vivid dream's as such these experiences are not realable.
@@chiricahuaapache5132 Also people can lie with an NDE and what their experience was and people can misunderstand an experience they had.
Actually, there are a fair number of NDEs having a "bad" experience, including "hellish" places. Something like 11%. Like the "good" NDEs reported, there are endless variations on these accounts, so it's hard to take away anything concrete. Also, people may be less likely to report these, for obvious reasons.
Interesting as hell. Literally!
Perhaps heavenly discussion?
He’s not expounding on the literal power and existence of the Holy Spirit
Mitch was a great interviewer
I love and respect Bart. Truly. Sometimes he laughs at inappropriate times - is it just me, or do others notice that?
Constantine/Rome didn’t take over control of the church at the time of the conference at Nicea - but wasn’t it so that at this stage the Christian church had their meeting places provided for by the Roman Empire and from then on they were beholden to the Secular state for funds, favor etc. and thereby made themselves willingly the servants of Rome from that time on into the present?
I have read the entire "Commedia"(English translation, of course). "Inferno" is the most interesting by far. "Purgatorio" & "Paradiso" can be tedious at times. 😇
I'd pay to watch Dr. Erhman debate Christian Prince on Christianity.
Bart would destroy Christian Prince on New Testament studies.
Christian Prince is not fluent in Koine Greek.
This was a good interview
Only God is Good
@@TheLionFarm cute
Plato does not get nearly enough credit for his 4th-5th century B.C.E. contribution to Jewish and Christian depictions of Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus and eternal punishment that were written centuries after his dialogues, Phaedo, Gorgias, Republic, etc.🔥🔥🔥🤔
I've been a Christian all my life 72 years. Hmm. I guess not many Christians are going to get to be saved. I gave it all up 5 years ago when I found so many people in the Bible , thousands were exterminated by God. Even little children and babies. I don't know what I'd call myself now. I love listening to your blogs, and Mythvision. I really enjoy now not having to pretend to believe. This is freedom. Thank you Sir😊
Mitch, thanks for presenting Dr. Ehrman. He's a great and articulate scholar.
No he is NOT
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear him, which after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, Fear him.
READ EZEKIEL 32
@@TheLionFarm : Yes, he is! Try reading something other than the mythical and superstitious book.
Something they didn't touch on the last segment, is Jesus used to teach in Aramaic, the gospels were written for a Greek speaking audience, so they are supposed to be translations, but in Aramaic the word "rock" is nothing like Simon, nor Peter, so there is slim to none probability that Jesus really said that.
Listened this morning. Always enjoy the program!
And they shall go forth, and look upon the the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhoring unto all flesh. Old testament
Very good conducted interview. Prof Ehrman is able to clarify without oversimplifying. Quite the opposite in fact.
Comic book stories always have some element of truth, they should not be taken too seriously.
All religious texts share the same tradition as any superhero story.
Adolescent ridicule. Well done.
If Jesus died for our sins, why would there be a judging of sinful people.....I know some people are evil and or wicked so I'm not speaking of those ones, but for ones who just simply sin and err, why would they be judged and tormented FOREVER...
Also I learned that there's no literal burning flames that's meant for people to burn forever rather that, there will be an eternal distructiion for the wicked ones, after all Adam and Eve didn't even burn nor were they tormented FOREVER, but ETERNALLY DESTROYED. If we were born in sin how would it be justfied for us to be eternally tormented for sinning a short while here on Earth, that would NOT make any sense at all, let's say we live 100 years, burning or being tormented FOREVER, would never be in any way a fair punishment at all. One hundred years is by no means a comparison
to FOREVER. This is my understanding from a personal study of the Bible, I know NOTHING FOR CERTAIN, as none of us do.
Good points. Yes, if we all have "original sin" beyond our control, why be tortured eternally for it?
@@MrRezillo why be punished for it at all?
It's in the Bible so it can't be denied. I am a former J W so we HAD to study the Bible, supposedly daily but at least very regularly and I did just that. This is confusing, and I've been saying something was wrong for a few years now, even when I disassociated myself from the J W's. How can we get the TRUTH when there are so many different views about the SCRIPTURES. None of this is making too much sense. I know what I desire to believe and all I can do is hope in that. I can say that I do believe that, there's a CREATOR, and after that I'm pretty much lost.
Hold on. You are trying to make logical sense out of myth and superstition. Good luck with that.
@@cynthiaharvey6155 "It's in the Bible so it can't be denied" Do you really think that? Why?
Amazing how unbelievable the acumulative total of everything equalling one word "All". Whereas naturally within is "All Power" and "All Knowledge". Where as "All Laws" root from. The Laws of Motion. Which necessarily had application prior of material materializing.
Exactly Three laws descibing the One Concept. Motion. The Lord of Hosts.
I prefer the tour of "hell" and "heaven" in Vergil's Aeneid. Everyone who is punished or rewarded is just there long enough to forget their old life and then they are reborn on Earth.
I've never heard any reasoning as to what keeps people in heaven from ever sinning while there. For billions and trillions of years...not one slip up of sin. Do they not have free will once in heaven? How it is different from the Earthly paradise God created, that produced sin immediately with Adam and Eve.
This is the inherent nature of flesh verses the desire to follow the Will of God. If we have a natural desire to follow the Will of God then when all temptation is removed, it should come naturally.
If you can trust a Catholic priest on the matter then, no, we can't sin in heaven. He described heaven to me as a place where we are all gathered around god's glory in eternal bliss. I was eight years old at a time. Guess what happens if you tell an eight year old kid with ADHD that heaven is the place where he has to sit still and look at a giant lightbulb all day long? You make an eight year old hard atheist in an instant. :-)
@@RomanPaganChurch And there is the person who doesn't know how the bible defines "sin". Don't worry, none of you have ever found the passage. It's too obvious to be visible to the religious. ;-)
@@lepidoptera9337 ✴ _Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin._ (James 4: 17; KJV)
@@IsaacNussbaum You just made a fool of yourself, kid. Good job! ;-)
Having said that, at least you made one of the more interesting entries in this contest. Most people didn't get even that far.
I get the impression that Bart is very happy.
@The Arduous Sierra Divide
Fame and fortune might have something to do with it.
@@tedgrant2How much fame and fortune do you have
If there’s a special place in hell for bad christians, what does that say about the doctrine’s effectiveness in influencing people to behave morally? Thanks for giving me another reason to convert to Judaism.
Convinced there’s a hell? Take a look at these verses showing *the unsaved will perish:* they’ll be destroyed and not “be” anymore:
■ “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
■ “For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.” (Psalm 37:10)
■ “When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever” (Psalms 92:7)
■ “As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation” (Proverbs 10:25).
■ “Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth, That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment? Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds; Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?” (Job 20:4-7).
■ “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23)
■ “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9)
There’s nothing in those verses about eternal life in torment.
So on one hand we have verses showing the unsaved perish: after destruction they will not “be.” But on the other hand we have Bible translations with verses about hell and everlasting punishment.
What’s going on? Long, long ago the pagan doctines of immortal soul and eternal torment in hell crept into church doctrine. Translators from those churches then wrote “hell” into the Bible by mis-translating several Greek words. For example:
■ “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (Mark 9:47, KJV)
“Hell” in that verse is from the Greek word γεέννῃ or “gehenna,” the dump outside Jerusalem. The trash and garbage thrown there was sure to be destroyed by the constant fire -“hell fire”- and worms (maggots) in the dump. Jesus was only saying that just as trash thrown into the dump was sure to be destroyed, the wicked would surely be destroyed. They would perish and never again “be” as we saw earlier.
Here’s another verse where “hell” is from the Greek word γεέννῃ or “gehenna”:
■ “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28)
Wait a minute . . . how can a soul be destroyed if it’s immortal? Was Jesus wrong? Of course not. In pagan Greek philosophy the soul was an immortal spiritual component of a person that separates from the body at death and keeps on living, forever. But in the Bible, soul refers to a person, to the self, the life -not to some sort of immortal component. For example:
■ “And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.” (Acts 27:37)
■ “The soul that sinneth, it shall die . . .” (Ezeliel 18:20).
Compare that to the “soul” according to pagan Greek religion:
_“Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!”_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC)
What you just read sounds just like what you’ll hear in most churches today. Can you now see what has happened? Over the centuries pagan Greek religion has crept into church doctrine!
Along with the immortal soul came hell, as a necessary explanation for where the unsaved immortal soul spends eternity!
And what happens now, today, when people see “hell” in the Bible? They naturally conclude “Oh, so we must have immortal souls” -and the pagan doctrines live on.
Did you know some later translators recognized the error of “hell” in the Bible translations? Young's Literal Tranlsation (YLT), for example, never uses “hell."
The “immortal soul” has roots in Satan’s original lie:
■ “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die” (Genesis 3:4)
Salvation is NOT about “where you’ll spend eternity.” *You won’t even **_have_** an eternity unless you receive from God the gift of eternal life!* Otherwise you’ll perish and no longer “be” as we saw earlier.
So, what really happens to the unsaved? How do they perish? The apostle Paul wrote:
■ “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23)
After resurrection and judgment the unsaved die again. It’s called “the second death” in the Bible, in Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14 and 21:8. After the second death there is no life and no hope of resurrection. It’s the end of that person; they will never again “be.” That’s what it means to *_perish._*
This second death is the “everlasting punishment” Jesus spoke of in Matthew 25:46:
■ “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”(Matthew 25:46)
The punishment -the second death- is everlasting in this respect: it is finished, permanent and irrevocable, like the execution of a criminal. It is not perpetual, ongoing punishing.
You didn't *_really_* think the God of mercy would be a sadistic monster, endlessly subjecting the unsaved to hopeless torment, did you?
You keep quoting from a book. I don't believe can't you find Something Else to quote
Wow, that was A LOT of bullshit. ;-)
49:22 The... Assembly of God? (I wonder if that's where the denomination got it's name.)
Dr Ehrman is the man! We're so lucky to have the access we do to great scholars like Bart.
As being a western lost in his illusions.
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας tell me, what illusions do all "westerns" believe? I also can't wait to hear about how you have access to all of these peoples' illusions. Do tell!
@@ΓραικοςΕλληναςWhat about your illusions
I’m just worried that what if it really exists? Where do all the bad people go? Stalin and hitler or sinners etc?
Good point John.
@@shaunigothictv1003 thanks
Don't be worried.
Enjoy your life.
Love God and be kind to others.
Where bad people go is. Not your problem
There are references to the afterlife in the Old Testament.
Job said, For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms shall destroy my body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. (Job 19:25-27)
The prophet said, And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)
The Psalmist wrote, But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth. (Psalm 63:9)
Also we read, For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell. (Psalm 86:13)
The words ‘lower parts of the earth’ and ‘lowest hell’ speak of different degrees of punishment as confirmed in the New Testament when Jesus spoke of some people’s judgment as being more tolerable while others would receive the greater damnation (ref. Matthew 10:15, Matthew 23:14).
Jesus spoke of hell to the Jews in the account of Lazarus and the rich man as found in Luke 16:19-31. He made many reference to a literal hell on a number of occasions (Matthew 10:28, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, etc.)
God provided a way for us sinners to escape his just wrath in hell by sending his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to suffer for our sins, his innocent blood shed, that we might be forgiven (John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Each person is called to put their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and thereby receive the gift of eternal life (Romans 6:23).
Mostly true, but you're confusing the translation of hell with what was actually said in Hebrew and Greek.
What makes religious/spiritual beliefs distinguishable from that of mere make-believe?
It's ultimately a matter of make-believe, of individual interpretation.
When we died we didn’t go straightaway to heaven or hell.Our spirit are stored in a special place above the Earth in heavenly realms.If you are someone who denies the existence of your creator or attributed partner with Him then your soul will stay in the Earth until resurrection day
Liar
That's not what I believe.
There's a difference Between. Lying and expressing your opinion.
Wild. I’ve listened to your show on kpfk numerous times over the years. It’s weird seeing you out in the wild.
Please share my two brief videos with other people. Thank you!
In the thumbnail, Bart looks like he just created Hell and is very proud of himself.
Really like Bart’s new glasses
Great interview. Great channel. You should check out NT Wright too
I'm made intensely curious about the teasingly out of focus painting behind Bart. And did I hear correctly? Did Bart state Constentine did not make Christianity the official religion of the Empire?
Yes. He says that at the 10:39 mark.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it: and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged everyman according to his works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Your not just going to hell Bart, your not worried about hell alone people, eternal damnation is not in hell. It's much worse than that. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
soul-body separation yess a Greek concept - origins of Aristotles' sway over theology as well
The term "Christians" were given by gentiles in Antioch to Jesus followers, not even Paul used that term, Peter used it just once to relate it to persecution. But I don't think neither any apostle developed a theology of "hell", but the had an idea of the underworld where disembodied souls go after death and they are conscious. This idea could have given birth to the idea of hell as punishment for those who reject Jesus Christ. John apostle speaks about Lake of 🔥 fire..this idea is more close to the doctrine of hell.
How much do the Christian versions of hell rely on Platos story of El?
Is the Bible more of a manual for creating Heaven on earth or Hell on earth?
Religion will lose your soul if anything
Hell is a pretty natural conclusion for what to do with anyone who is undesirable to the Kingdom of Heaven. And of course, the clergy would make the thing more emotional.
Although demons only appear on Earth in the Bible, so they are completely unconnected with Hell in the Bible.
I heard "Damned forever". I thought Christians believed in redemption and forgiveness?
Same here.
I was under the impression that God heard Jesus' prayer, Father forgive them (us, sinners) for they know not what they do (sin). And as he said it it finished, that mankind was finally redeemed.
Giving the accounts of how many Christians were in hell, and that some of them simply because of doctrinal error, such as seeing Jesus as more of Divine than human. Wow, not sure if I can buy that.
My hat is off to him for his research and and study of Patristics. But not all of the Church fathers held to this view of hell.
The redemption and forgiveness come before you die. Once you are dead, it is too late to repent. That is when the eternal damnation begins. Telling this story to children is child abuse, regularly practiced by all Christians.
@@timproffit7861
If Jesus is the father the son and the holy Spirit, why did he need to "pray" to God? He's literally just talking to himself
btw, Billions of people are doing the same thing today
@@darfcrow He is not the Father, nor is he the Holy Spirit, so of course he dialogs with the Father. They are one but not the same. Look at John17
@@timproffit7861I come from the Catholic faith. They DEF believe in the Trinity. Even though it was conceived of in the 14th century. They don't let facts get in the way of a good story!
Shameful bigotry of not giving the fiery Hell of the Egyptians who were the rulers of the Canaanite lands far longer than the Greeks, any recognition. Nor the book of Enoch.
Agreed.
Modern scholarship makes the threats of hell given by every religion and every sect against every other sect in every religion, very hard to take seriously. They are wrong about so many things.
So in the gospel of Nicodemus did Christ also save those from an infinite number of other worlds going back 13 billion years?
Hell predates the new testament, the apostles take the wordage from the prophetic books that they grew up reading and studying. Bart got caught up in contradictions in the gospels, he is a seed that fell by the way side.
I had to switch off, got fed up with Ehrman laughing at his own commentary. I've watched a great many of his presentations, have lost the ability to switch off when he does it, I guess it's a nervous thing but it comes across as condescending, even when what he is saying is absolutely right.
funny how much people have written about things we dont know anything about. is it fear of dead and the unknown?
or is it the prise of human intelligence. we can see what we dont know and make up histories
Great segment with Bart, but way too much
educational information for Sunday school
simpleton Xtians.
Why do you think Christians are simpletons?
@@soslothful
I don't think, I know for certain.
@@r0ky_M Well, that is bold, but you duck posting examples.
@@soslothful
It encounter such Xtian simpletons on a regular basis and their blatant dishonesty is another problem they display.
Jesus goes to Hades? So he just decided to visit his old buddy the Greek god of the underworld?
Interesting.
Also, anybody else notice the similarities between "Hell" and the Germanic goddess of the dead, Hel/Hella?
Personally, I'm of the opinion that the whole idea of "Hell" stems from the Germanic tribes that were giving the Romans such fits - and who ultimately finished off the Roman Empire.
I mean, really... does it seem like so far-fetched a notion that when the bible was being put together, that the Roman Catholic Church would say something like "A place of punishment? Hmm... how 'bout we 'borrow' that bit about the underworld from those damned barbarians that we never managed to conquer?"
The New Testament was written in Greek. The Greek word "Hades" was used when referring to underworlds in general by the ancient Greeks, not just the Greek underworld, sort of in the same way that they called Thoth "Hermes." The Aramaic (and Hebrew) word that gets translated to Greek as "Hades" is "Sheol," which was more of a poetic term for the land of the dead that is more accurately translated as "the grave," since ancient Jews believed that the soul died with the body.
"Hell" was the Germanic word for the underworld, and English is a Germanic language. So you're actually completely on the mark about where the name comes from, but it's due to translation and not intentionally copying the mythology of other cultures.
That said, other words were later erroneously translated as Hell, too, like Gehenna, which was a real, physical place where the bodies of criminals were burned in a massive pit because they were unworthy of having a decent burial. This is actually where the idea of Hell being a place of fire comes from, and it's genuinely a part of Jewish tradition rather than a syncretic element from any other culture.
But when Paul redesigned Heaven to be an afterlife, rather than the resurrection in New Jerusalem that Jesus promised, it also made the metaphorical destruction of the wicked in Gehenna into an afterlife, too, because the souls said to burn in Gehenna were no longer seen as mortal. This ended up implying that Gehenna was a kind of underworld, which is why it ended up being translated as such and being conflated with other references to Sheol.
@@AbandonedVoid - Hades is the ruler of the Greek version of the underworld, Tartarus.
The same is true for Hel and Helheim, which is a realm in Niflheim ( Norse/Germanic underworld. )
And do keep in mind the connection between the Romans and Greece... A connection close enough that mistranslations between Greek, Latin, and the Germanic/Scandinavian languages should have been a rare thing.
Those were the common languages of the day in Rome, back when the Roman Catholic Church was being formed.
Anyway, the fact is that Christianity borrows or steals quite heavily from earlier religions, and has done its best to either "Christianise" or outright eradicate the earlier belief systems that were still in place when it was adopted by the Romans.
That last is the reason the neopagan movement of the past 20-25 years is so wrong about so many old practices; there's just not much information left concerning the druids, or the Germanic religions. And what little we do have is written by people already converted to the Christian way of thinking.
Of course, all writings about hell by the authors of the Bible are pure speculation and supposition. None of them were ever there. What Paul thought he saw may or may not be reliable. But Jesus always wanted his listeners to focus on the positive, love, truth, beauty, and goodness.
Dude! Mastreo V Bart D. Ehrman series on Christianity I have watched Many Many times. Impressive scholar
Yes!!! Thank you!!! 1Nation4Life
Didn't the Zoroastrians also have concepts of resurrection, judgement, heaven and hell? Could have come into Judaism even before the Hellenization.
Bart should do a dismantling of Swedenborg's writings
The Apocalypse of Paul, written 300 years after the death of Paul, is not a Christian text. The description of Hell, or Sheol/ Hades given by Jesus in the Gospels matches that of the Book of Enoch, a Jewish text written 100-300 BC. Hell is not a Christian invention.
The Apostle John is recorded in the Bible as saying, "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." 1 John 4
This description is of Gnostic dualism which is a false religion dating back to the time of Christ claiming the body and mind are separate, with the mind being eternal and the body being evil.
I think he’s saying that the concept of hell as a place where disembodied souls suffer for their sins is not something really in the Bible. The only mention like that is by Jesus in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. This is not a teaching on hell as much as an illustration on the change in spiritual status to come for those who listened to the prophets verses those who clung to power and rejected Jesus.
@@heyalun Funny that Jesus quoted Enoch too, however - to my recollection.
It's all a bit murky, ain't it? And Jesus didn't exactly fulfil all the Prophets said of what a Mossiach was, anyway.
Gnostics were Christian and so was the Apocalypse of Paul, even if they aren't representative of modern, mainstream Christian views, and there are still Christians who believe in them to this day. You don't get to tell them that they aren't Christian just because you disagree with their beliefs.
@@AbandonedVoid I didn't tell them they weren't Christian, the Apostle John did. He said their claims were the spirit of antichrist because they denied Jesus came in the flesh. If Jesus didn't come as a man, he didn't die to atone for the sins of man and cannot be our High Priest before God. Such teachings deny Christ.
Jesus is a human. Christ is the spirit which is in us all, as I have understood it. Is this wrong?
Maybe - after thousands of years of theological speculation (including some of the worser ones of Augustine, and Calvin, say) and debate, @Ana Franklin - and on monophysitism vs diphysitism, it's possible your guess is as good as many others' were, by this stage.
And Christ is a title, generally - it means christened, or anointed.
If Jesus is human then why did He accept worship as God?
@@chris93703…did he?
EVER SEEN ESTUS PIRKLE AND RON ORMAN'S 1974'S "THE BURNING HELL "?.
No
What in the HELL, has bible quoting ever done for humanity? Absolutely nothing. Create a miracle and we'll talk...
Great man and info, 'but a little less laughing and a little more knowledge, please' most of his interview is taken up with his laughter 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 I bought his book , very expensive , but it's fantastic well worth the price .
Most Hate Filled is Romans Chapter 1, second part. Paul is the most Antisemitic Person in history. Read the 1611 King James Version where Paul is explicit.
“For I am not ashamed of the good news; it is, in fact, God’s power for salvation to everyone having faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.” (Romans 1:16) Wow, good news of salvation for everyone faithful, but first the Jews. How hate-filled and antisemetic!
And then it goes into that clunky, specious business in the next few verses, about how everything has been 'clearly seen and understood', despite being invisible, plus interwoven with a 'fallen' nature.
So if all of these books were just fiction why pay any attention to any of them?
I guess there are several main reasons:
1. Like it or not, they are a significant influence (albeit indirect and now highly mediated) on our cultural life and political and legal structures etc.
2. Myths like these are often very good guides to the desires and repressions of the human psyche. (They are often just interesting stories too!)
3. It is useful to be aware when encountering apologetics.