Bagging is terrible. Doing it at a supermarket is the worst because everyone is like "no you bag it like this no you bag it like that" I JUST WORK HERE
We don't have baggers in our supermarkets, people back their own stuff. It's much better in my opinion although the supermarket workers here are very good at it anyway lmao.
tbf there's two different ways of playing Mario kart at a house at a party with randoms (im playing to impress so ill bag) at my friend's house (playing for funny times so ill race)
The skill issue is being in a position where that can happen, on a track where it is more advantageous to be in the back than the front. You're not unskilled for not being able to dodge the item, you're unskilled for using a strategy that is terribly suited for the track you are playing. I go into more detail in the pinned comment.
@@Shortcat321but is that because it’s skillful to try and get better items or because of a design flaw? Do you think Nintendo would create a game that rewards staying in the back until the last possible second? There’s a reason why Nintendo nerfed bagging.
@@zigmaster5199then play casually against the bots on 150cc and dont be surprised when the gameplay in online competitive ranked is different 💀💀💀
Nah thats completely different. You have to hold on to your good cards and be patient with that, with bagging, you literally just got slower to win an a frickin racing game. @@Randomness662
@@Jinority and Mario Kart is about items lmfao. If someone's so pressed about using items to gain an advantage which is the core identity of a Mario Kart game, then play an actual racing game. May even want to consider Assetto Corsa since mfers want a realistic and skillful racing experience so bad.
Exactly but most of the time u bag your not gonna get first there will always be frontrunners, if u bag u have a higher chance of getting a decent spot 1-6, if your a frontrunner half the time your gonna get combod and fall to the bag of the line anyways
I don't think it takes no skill but I do think the fact that purposely losing for several laps in a game that's about racing is a good or in some cases optimal strategy is bad game design.
100% agreed. I wouldn't mind if a few tracks worked like this, but the fact is that lots of tracks work like this and it gets pretty old. Bagging takes skill, but I don't think it should be one of the main skills required to win in mario kart.
Its simply not designed for competitive gameplay. Its designed to play with friends, and the comeback mechanics are there to help worse players have a chance.
If u want real racing then play a different game. I like bagging in Mario kart because it’s a very different playstyle from most racing games. Racing in Mario kart feels way different. Obviously it’s annoying when I front run and lose but If I wanted to sim race I’d go sim race
I think I understand the sentiment though. I don’t like that bagging works so well. I personally feel like the Wii Mario kart was a little bit better balanced with some* items. Front running in Mario Kart 8 is just asking for red shell galore.
I think the real issue is that this kind of feels like a design issue. In a race you’re well supposed to go fast and finish the race in as little time as possible. Rewarding going slow feels counter intuitive.
This. If I take every turn optimally, because I practiced and learned how to time my drifts and boosts and I took every turn at EXACTLY the right angle, accounting for bumping other players, weight, etc etc... Then I should win. And then some guy spammed items until they got a bullet bill and 3 shrooms, and apparantly that takes more skill.
it's because mario kart is not a competetive game, it's a party game. the game is balanced around 4 players on the same couch with vastly different skill levels still being able to enjoy the game, and for even the worst player to have a chance to win.
The game is based around item play, luck and overall driving skills. To be the best you can’t solely rely on driving alone, you need to be able to defend your position too. At the start of the race you need to make a decision about wanting to run or bag, sometimes running works and sometimes not, that’s part of the game.
@@pianoman7753 thats because it isnt gran turismo, go play a realistic racing game if you want to race realistically, you still have to know all the shortcuts, race well and know how to use items to bag, stop crying
Bro said "skill issue" in anti-competitive party game settings. Yeah, game is about items. Delivered by a slot machine. "Give some respect to the" yeesh take your hand off it doofus- "Da GayM iz nOt beeInG unFaIR." Being unfair is what the newer, dumbed down 8 is FAMOUS for. It's DESIGNED to be a party game, to give a chance of hope to whatever casuals are present in your lobby. "Yu ar juzT nOt gUd." I could've handled the commentary if this guy wasn't a self-glorifying wanker about a party game with a slot machine for items. Obviously, you can improve you odds by strategic management of items. But the result is still ultimately dictated by the god-hand of Item Draw.
@@Uggnog Sho sum ruhspekt Far out, it's not QUAKE 3. The skill gap is low. And it's heavily randomised. You can do everything right. And smart. Equalize the skillz and the gap still fades into the slot machine
@@Uggnog And to get me not wrong, it's a fantastic game. But this guy talking pretentious shit, as if its competitive streak is really precise and credible? Yeesh doofus, get a grip.
I think the issue is that you could frontrun the entire race, avoid being hit by every red, blue and green shell that comes your way, taking every shroomless shortcut perfectly, and then someone who's been sitting in 12th the entire race can just come win at the last minute just because they can mushroom boost through a mile of offroad.
the thing is though that doesn’t happen on every track. some tracks are horrible for bagging on. but i see your point. cheese land is notorious for having baggers pass you at the last lap. i’ve been leading that race many times only to somehow end up in 5th in the time span of like 2 seconds.
because mario karts a strategy game, nor just an acceleator go brrrr game. If you use the same frontrunning strat every race with zero situational awareness, you wont win
@@gene8792 yeah its a metaphor my guy, if u dont have a strategy and arent able to adapt to the race your gonna place bottom half of all 3000 or higher lobbies
I guarantee you that if you were to speak with the developers of Mario Kart 8 (Deluxe), they'd tell you that this is exploiting a mechanic made to help a struggling player not to be cheesed due to the powerful nature of the item (and the fact Deluxe let's you stack 2 of them.)
devs remove exploits. bagging has been a thing in multiple mario kart games for ages. they’ve had chances to get rid of it and haven’t, meaning it’s not an exploit
@@SkeletonGuyVTfr why would i take what the company that added slipping to smash brothers seriously, they make good games but can be lame sticklers with competitive play. we are not obligated to listen to them unless what they say gets fundamentally added through an update or something
This. Both are valid means of playing, but items are half the fun of Mario Kart, and getting nothing but coins, bananas, and the occasional green shell isn't very fun, especially since even if you play perfectly, you're 1-2 blue shells or lightning bolts away from losing your position. I do agree with the theme of the video though, both take skill.
I think frontrunning and bagging are both fun, just depending on the track. Bagging is incredibly frustrating when it doesn't work, so I wouldn't try bagging on a track with no shortcuts. But frontrunning is even MORE frustrating when you get unlucky with blue shells, red shells, and the shock.
@@Shortcat321Completely agree. Front Running is very satisfying if you only get 1 blue shell (generally good play can give you enough of a lead to survive one blue), and if you use your defense wisely enough to hold off the onslaught of reds. It takes strategy, it takes few mistakes, etc. I just feel like I more often than not get 2 blue shells, often with 2nd place coming up with triple reds lol. Bagging sucks when, say, you get nothing but mushrooms on a track with no shortcuts, or triple mushrooms when then guy ahead of you gets the shock.
I see your point but for me it’s not an enjoyable experience. I see multiple players who race well the entire game then lose out because the track is rigged on the last lap. Almost every race dissolves to who can shock dodge and get a bullet/G mushroom/star combo. No thank you!
@@Shortcat321 First RUclipsr to reply to me ! 🥳 Love your videos, keep up the great content! Me and my roommates watch your stuff whenever it drops and always gets us in the Mariokart mood.
“The game is not being unfair, you’re just not good” While it’s true skill plays a big role, no matter how obsenely good one can be at the game, blaming losses to “bad skill” when RNG also plays a part is a ridiculous claim. Even the best players can get abyssmal luck with lightning strikes, item pulls, etc.
@@user-we5xb8kv4k just like how Will-O-Wisp is a perfectly balanced Pokémon move, Aaron Zheng is just bad for missing it 3 times in a row in a single game.
I remember when I played Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing back in the day, I was getting tired of always frontrunning against the toughest AI and never getting the All-Star item as a result. So I started giving the other racers a full lap head start in a ten lap race. Made the game way more fun, and required me to constantly be trying my hardest to catch up. I now do it in other similar racing games where the lap counter can be changed. Little did I know that this would be close to what is now known as "bagging".
I watched your videos and tried bagging myself because I thought it looked easy. That’s when I learned how bad I really was at this game. You really have to know the courses like the back of your hand to bag optimally and also know which courses it’s most beneficial to bag on. Definitely takes more skill than it seems
Cheese land was the first track I ever tried to bag on, and I thought it would be easy. Just get the bullet bill and use it at the first shortcut. What actually happened was i would tunnel vision for the bullet bill and end up so far behind that it only takes me to 6th, and now I can't get another bullet bill and my race is over. From there, I'd panic and try to front run and lose. Recently, I had a race on Cheese land where I got no bullet or shock, and I still won. Knowing what to do in every single situation is a skill that took me a long time to learn, and i'm still learning
This is genuinely a Mario kart 8 thing, because in other games, yes you can bag, but you don’t get punished for front running. If you front run in MK8, 2nd place will just spam you with triple reds. MK8 is more of who can bag for the better items and guess when shock happens, while other games like Mario Kart Wii showcase driving skills
Not to mention you cannot at all strategize what item you're going to get, because of distance based item RNG being effectively impossible to judge from a glance. Not to mention several powerful items like stars and shocks no longer have a maximum amount in play (and the shock also no longer has a 30s cooldown that you can strategize around), so holding items becomes an RNG fest.
TL;DR: Both front running and bagging take skill, but bagging is a bit too overpowered currently. While I agree that both strategies take skill, that bagging is by no means an easy strategy, my biggest issue with Mario Kart as a whole is that, if you're a skilled player, bagging, at least for part of the race, is significantly better than trying to front run. I feel front running should be just as valid a strategy as bagging, assuming quality play, with the differences between the two coming down to the course. Hell, I'd like it if bagging were a kind of high risk, high reward strategy, but it seems almost the opposite. I've found front running to be so unreliable that it's almost moronic to try and do it, at least from lap one. It's far more reliable to bag lap one, when the players are still fairly closely grouped, get a quality pair of items, then make a play for 1st, hoping to get there with a mushroom for the inevitable blue shell. Anyways, overall, can't disagree with the vid, just wanted to vent my thoughts a bit lol
This is a great take! A lot of people think that "bagging takes skill" is the same as me saying "bagging is great". I totally agree with you that while bagging is not easy, maybe it shouldn't be so powerful in the first place. I think we'd all have a better time if front running was the best strategy on at least 80% of the tracks. I want bagging to exist to add diversity and skill ceiling, but I don't like how too often it's just the best way to play. I might make a video on how bagging could be nerfed.
@ShroomlessShortcat Yeah, a variety of viable strategies would be great! That said, overall I think Nintendo has done a pretty decent job with the balance. I'm nitpicking here, if I'm being honest! And I think I'll sub for that potential video :)
Agreed. I think blue shell spawn rate should go down a bit so that front running can be balanced out more for those who prefer to. I'm not even talking a big decrease but imo blue shells should only be spawning once a race, not two or three times. It's really ridiculous. At least that would make up for the onslaught of red shells that first place gets from 2nd and 3rd. It's really disappointing when you have such a huge lead front running and you get bombarded so badly by blues reds and bolt. I feel like the hard work that went into getting so much space away from others is all pointless especially when you don't even keep your 1st placement. It's terribly discouraging.
@Kirb10 Yes, exactly! There should 100% be a way to dethrone a front runner, but it should come from 2nd/3rd raking advantage of a blue shell to fire their reds. Opportunity plus preparation. It's the 2nd and 3rd blues that really ruin it.l for me. Well said!
If you backpedal/ backpedal behind item boxes, you are automatically banned from receiving bullet, shock, ad star. Mushroom king and triple mushrooms only. That would ban bagging. Either that, or van them from online
Why not have a dedicted item dead zone that you into if you intentionaly bag.. like if you are too far from 11that only happens realisticly if your bagging. Where the items are the same as first place
Idk, green shells and bananas should at least be included to make it more diverse, otherwise there’s not really any difference between that and any other racing game
@@blixten635realtrue. it's frustrating but it's a natural part of the game. and sometimes it's really my fault i get hit bc i didnt prepare enough for it. everyone needs to take a step back and reflect on whether it was unfair or if it was their own fault for not preparing to FIGHT to keep that number 1 spot. with that said tho, 3 red shells is pure evil...
He’s more like the type to listen to their footsteps to know exactly where they’re going. It’s technically not cheating to listen to footsteps, but it’s not an intended feature.
I love front running, it is my favorite strategy, but i just cant state enough that front running takes more luck than bagging. I swear some times i get so lucky with front running, so much so i recently went on a 5 win streak with just front running. But the next day i was playing online and holy hell i was getting completely and utterly destroyed by red shells. I did not get a single first from a 4 hour play session. Red shells are so annoying in mk8 dx. If they weren't annoying enough i just loose all of my coins and from that I just can not recover because now im lost in the pack. I never found bagging annoying mostly because either way i get owned by red shells. Great short btw.
Thank you!! And omg that sounds rough. Yeah frontrunning is highly luck based, way more luck based than bagging. Red shells / blue shells / shocks are completely out of your control.
I also really enjoy frontrunning. I find it fun to try to get to first and maintain it but I also have to agree in the fact that it's an extremely hit or miss way to play. I enjoy the general first situation of having a defensive item and a coin and keeping up as good of a defense as you can but sometimes reds just never stop. Like my beef isn't even with blues most of the time, they're usually just the boss finishing you off from the onsalaught of enemies that are reds. I don't really bag often because it's not really my prefered strategy and I don't play on an actual competitive level, but it can certainly prove to be more useful for someone that knows what they're doing. Especially on good ol' Cheese Land.
Front running is my least favoritw i get hit one time and then i am in the middle and everyon is hittimg and bumping imto me and i dont have that kind of patcience
I honestly didn’t have a clue that people hated bagging so much, I personally don’t have much of a problem with it and it leads to super climactic endings sometimes.
This has made me realise why i always lose in online races, i play the game like a normal person and that's a big mistake if i want any chance of having fun in random matches.
Bagging in Mario kart is in a similar position to backwards driving in most other racing games(track mania mainly). In track mania backwards driving requires a lot of skill and due to some coddling oversights sim of the older games it is possible to be faster going backwards than forwards.
u ever seen horse racing? the one at the front from the start usually loses. Same w mario kart, first place = most targettable, fronteunning is bad for most maps. Mario Karts a strategy game, not just a racing game. You gotta utilise your items right, take big risks, shld u risk exposing urself to a shell for the chance of a shroom to take that shortcut or just play it safe? If you play mk properly youd realise quickly
It's not easy to play like that,the problem about this strategy is that it completely ruins the point of playing a racing game and turns a fun game into the 100th competitive game
Depends In some instances its like counting cards In some its like hiding aces in your sleave (the levels that exploit unforseen mistakes in movement, exploits are cheating in multiplayer games.) But additionally its as serious as an at home play with no cash. Sure sometimes its cheating but whatever
Yeah if pol agree to it fine but i don't play with it. To me its against the spirit of the game. In soccer if you pass the ball to your goalie without using your foot or a deflection, it is okay. You could always scoop the ball from your foot to your head and pasd to his hands which i think its against the spirit of the rules.
@@CaptainChukFully agree with you. A big reason Mario Kart is so popular for casual gaming with friends/family is because the item system gives an advantage to players who are struggling and need it. Keeps things tense, you don’t know who’s going to win and there’s always a chance? Taking that system as a good player and twisting it just takes the fun out for anyone looking to just play for casual enjoyment.
@iceburgess461 It made it so you cant just stay and re grab the same item box, you actually have to be moving forward. So now its more just be at a bad spot and dont stop for items, just keep moving forward, not that big of a nerf
It's kinda funny how some say it takes skill to play and win in Mario Kart, which to an extent is true, but you gotta remember it's also highly rng based. You can be a really good player but you can also get Mario Kart'd *hard* and lose a race just like that 🙃
The fact that Mario Kart’d is even a phrase proves the game isn’t fair in terms of skill. When your phrase for getting screwed is about the game itself and not other players, you know it’s not just a skill issue 😂
If I'm the best player in the room, what are the chances I win the next race? Maybe about 30%. What are the chances I outperform everyone else on average? About 90%. Yes, this game is highly luck-based. But it's not so luck based that you will consistently lose to players worse than you. Also when I was grinding my worldwide rating, I got 1st place every single race until about 5000 VR. Right now at 16000 VR, I can get top 3 on more than 70% of the races. Even though luck is important, skill absolutely matters a lot.
@@Shortcat321 Wish i could do it. But i just get hit by everything. I was First and the Finish line was about 5-10 seconds away. Then i got hit by 3 Red shells, that were timed pretty well and end up on place 5, then someone hits me with a Star and the next one with a Bullet Bill. I got last Place just because of the Items from the other Players, even if i was First place the entire Time. Sure this game needs some Skill to win, but it also depends on some LUCK: You can be Lucky and no one behind you gets Red or Blueshell to stop you. Or you can be unlucky and they manage to put you from Place 1 to Place 12 with Lucky Items.
this happened to me in rosalina’s ice world lmao, i was not even 3 seconds away from goal in 1st and i got blue shelled, red shelled, and knocked to the off-road, and i went right to last place 😭
It’s a children’s racing game. It was balanced around the idea that the items are supposed to help bad players. Intentionally staying behind kinda ruins the game, cause not everyone can do it. Someone has to drive forward for the race to end, and bagging punishes players who don’t want to wait forever.
@@shineskopesyeah, except I'm pretty sure that's not 100% true, given the number of lobbies I've been placed in with multiple people around the 100k range despite me being a new player online with barely 15 races to my name. The game definitely doesn't always put you against people the same rank.
I mean there's literally a decent amout of front running tracks as much as bagging tracks. It's not hard to frontrun like at all just make sure u always have a single banana or a shell and you'll be fine the only way you would get shocked or blue shelled even semi often is literally because of you having way more distance then the rest of the pack which is distance u wont have on average if we're being realistic
To summarize all of that bagging isnt really a punishing strat it's just smarter and safer to do then front running and its main use is for people starting in the back of the pack anyways.
I like to practice and play with my family on frantic item settings. It makes it way easier to get in first but really hard to stay. Trying to front run with experienced family members and hard computers makes for a very dynamic game
@breadandcircuses8127 it’s also great to train resistance to passing your controller to the person on the floor below you when you get hit by 11 red shells from 2nd and still get shocked off the jump
UPDATE: Bagging got nerfed! Everyone who is saying "bagging is dead" um... you didn't read the patch notes because bagging hardly changed. Anyway, i LOVE that bagging got nerfed slightly. I defend the skill and strategy required to bag effectively, but i do not and have never defended the strange game design that caused bagging to become so powerful. A lot of people are commenting about this so I will clarify: "Getting Mario karted means you're bad at the the game" is not what I said. I was specifically talking about a track such as Mario kart stadium (lots of shortcuts). If you get hit in 1st, EVERY single item passes by you, and you will get hit again. The skill issue is that *you tried to frontrun a bagging track*, and experienced players know that's a dice roll. Sadly this game doesn't reward being in 1st, it rewards you for good strategy. On sunshine airport, 1st place is the best spot. On cheese land, 1st place is the worst spot. Dont like this? Me neither honestly. Personally, I would nerf bagging since this is a really weird. Regardless, bagging requires more skills than frontrunning. You need to know how to frontrun if you get into 1st early. You need to know optimal positioning on 96 tracks, and how to best use any 2 items at any moment on any track. Bagging takes a lot of decision making, and frontrunning is relatively simple since it's just a time trial where you hold the L button sometimes. And for those who say im coping for lack of driving skill, trust me im still way better at frontrunning than bagging. I have a video where i do only frontrunning, and another with only bagging. I did way better frontrunning if you want to check them out!
I dont play mario kart but i can see it is like chess a map is like a chess player some maps need a defense strategy saftey like bagging some need running into a checkmate that is the map/players that dont have a defense
Personally, I just think it’s a more boring way to play the game. Like playing this game with friends who are all casuals that don’t bag makes the game a lot more enjoyable.
It's basically the same thing. Rather than actually competing, you're abusing a poorly-planned game mechanic. That's not to say you're not _personally_ skilled - it's just to say that you're winning in a way that _doesn't require skill._
@rustinhaigood argument is the same using a cheap tactic to get a leg up and claiming everyone else should just get better ever though you admit cheap tactic gives you an edge
@@ej3601 minecraft got competitive, roblox got competitive, among us got competitive, fortnite got competitive. Fall guys got competitive. There’s literally a whole community of people who speedrun mario games to see who gets the highest score. Literally get in line with the rest of us 🙄 Of course these games would get competitive. It’s a racing game - These people aren’t playing to “have fun” their playing to win (because that’s where their fun comes from, winning). In any game where there’s winning - people will get competitive and come up with strategies. Deal with it
@@ej3601As much as I like to be competitive at the game, I would never take it this seriously and be this pathetic at it. Just play it normally and have a good time trying to win.
@@ej3601 People will take eveything seriously and that's their perogative. No need to be a dick about it. I like to play Mario Kart more casually. Still find it fun to look at this, just for the trivia.
My favorite thing about MK is the cross between real racing mechanics and gambling. Combing the pure skill of racing with the risk/reward of being delt items, and knowing how to use them, is just SO satisfying. Its really a shame people write off the game for being too random without stopping to understand the mechanics
@@maybefoxtart well I'd guess more younger teen but the whole "Bro's the type of kid to ruin our playground games" feels like something a 14 year old would say
This game is a memorization game already. Every Mario kart game has been that since the beginning. If you drive "intuitively", you will lose by over 5 seconds on every track to the best players in the world who have every single line memorized. If you don't believe me, go time trial a track you haven't memorized and see how close you come to the world record.
“If you keep getting hit, then you’re not good at Mario Kart.” Yes, because I had control over second place getting triple reds. (Having bad item management is what makes you bad when trying to front run. Sometimes this can lead to getting hit a lot but sometimes it is also just rng.) Edit: Racing lines also matter a lot.
I'm talking specifically about that track. You will almost never get combo'd from first on a track like sunshine airport or Paris promenade. But on a comeback track, you will get destroyed because everyone is catching up to you with powerful items. Choosing to frontrunning is choosing to run that risk
@@IsomerMashupsyour comment is very confusing, given that he never actually mentioned other players and this technique nor defend it "because others are doing it".
I will say one of my favorite moments in Mario Kart is that 2 of my friends and I were playing online, and we all did the Gold Mario Build (All Gold everything, terrible build) and we would always get around 2nd, 4th, 8th. Around those spots every game, until, the holy moment, where we went all out, we had 1st and 2nd early in the 1st lap and 2nd place would protect 1st place and then our 3rd friend got in 3rd and we would protect each other, when one of us got hit with the Blue Shell, 2nd goes to 1st and the line continues. We finished 1st/2nd/3rd with the worst Mario kart build and it’s a moment I will never forget
Bagging is lame and encourages being lame as hell. Does it take skill? Sure. Is it still lame? Yes. Do I respect it or players who can do it well? Nope.
Exactly this. Its like camping in a corner with god aim. Is it a winning strategy? For sure. Is it part of the game? Yes. Is it lame? Without a doubt. This is why I play with friends, because people like this sweat at a game. Even wiis bagging wasnt as bad, it was mostly skillful driving, and good management of the tools in the game.
This is why the pitch clock (and the shot clock before it) now exists. Is sandbagging skill-testing? For sure. It’s also true that not playing the game being a competitively optimal strategy sucks if we’re talking about fun. You aren’t wrong for making winning move, you just shouldn’t be rewarded for it in the first place.
Just because something takes skill, doesn't mean we necessarily want to reward that skill. I agree with that idea. The thing with running out the clock in basketball is it's degenerate. What I mean by this is the game usually involves many skills, but running out the clock involves 1 very easy skill. Plus, basketball relies on viewers for revenue, and viewers don't like stalling. Therefore, the shot clock is a great solution for the game and for viewership. With bagging in mario kart, it's not quite the same. Sure, waiting around for items is degenerate and anyone can do that. But making the comeback is not degenerate, and requires the same skills as front running, plus way more. I still think bagging should be nerfed because it goes against the spirit of a racing game. But it should still exist and be good on some tracks, because this is also an item game. I just don't think it necessarily compares to stalling in basketball.
@@Shortcat321Yees, im bad at mk, and dont play online, but just imagine i go online, play a match, and actually play well just to have TACTICAL NUKE INCOMING on my screan and 5 gods rush from last place to first, shattering my ego and will to live. Dont mean it doesent take skill, but why do i get RAILED like that for racing in a racing game. Thats just my opinion though and im bad at mk
@derinlander in that situation you define "play well" as "do good at racing only". The game is a racing game. It is also an item game. This isn't to be disrespectful, but if you're only defining "do well" as "race only" you're ignoring half of the game, and you're not actually doing well. At best you're performing at 50% capacity.
I always try to front run. It usually ends with me being in a top spot bc my lines are better. When the blue shell hits, ill pretty much always have enough of a breakaway that it doesnt matter
I just learned about this, this weekend. It's pretty interesting. I'm a fighting game dude so seeing a game like Mario kart have a different method of playing is cool
Frontrunning takes a lot more skill because your goal is to optimize your run while playing defensively at the same time. You need to run the course using every shortcut you can without the help of boost items, take turns as tightly as possible, and put as much distance as possible between you and the rest of the pack so any hits that get through your defense won't ruin your placement. "Bagging" (I think a better term is "Lagging") gives you a better chance at turning the tables which is exactly why it takes *less* skill.
This is the game where you can get sent from first to last with one bad hit, especially when people are actively trying to win and prevent you from winning.
In my comment I never said it didn’t take skill or anything like that. Just that I didn’t like it because it is antitehtical to racing. Such a point was still not addressed by an angry sounding shortcat here
I addressed it by saying this is not just a racing game, but item management is also an important skill. If you want to have pure races, you can time trial.
@@Shortcat321but you didn't. All you did was admit to abusing a broken game mechanic. Abusing the items in MK to go from willingly losing a race to winning in the last lap is actually going against what racing games are supposed to be. You didn't address anything, all you did was insult a bunch of people by calling it a "skill issue" when it's actually a problem in the game not a lack of skill with the other players. All you did was get real nasty at everyone who called you out in a not so well thought out YT short, then all but back peddled in the comments of the people who aren't stroking your ego.
I think the problem is that most of the fanbase is casual players and being as sandbagging is a competitive strategy for competitive players, they naturally aren't fans of it. But when you have the lobbies that I do or actively play competitive (lounge), you need strategies like these if you want a chance at winning
Игры
Bagging is terrible. Doing it at a supermarket is the worst because everyone is like "no you bag it like this no you bag it like that" I JUST WORK HERE
We don't have baggers in our supermarkets, people back their own stuff. It's much better in my opinion although the supermarket workers here are very good at it anyway lmao.
That's why I always frontrun from the supermarket. The baggers can't catch up and neither can the cops
W comment 😂
@@Shortcat321YES 😂😂😂
@@Shortcat321LOL
Literal definition of "yeah, I'm a Bitch, but a professional at it"
amen
Fr ong
😂😂 yo you wild
Lmao
Items are part of the game it’s smart
bagging is not "no skill" but if you show up to my house and we're playing mario kart and youre bagging then youre outta here
That's just house rules. Also it's much less effective when you can screen watch
Sounds like you just have no friends
@@dark3mperor none of my friends bag because theyre normal people and not mario kart demons
@@dark3mperorif you bag at you friend’s house you’ll be the one with no friends💀
tbf there's two different ways of playing Mario kart at a house
at a party with randoms (im playing to impress so ill bag)
at my friend's house (playing for funny times so ill race)
Me: getting hit with 8 reds in a row
This guy: you’re just not that good
The skill issue is being in a position where that can happen, on a track where it is more advantageous to be in the back than the front. You're not unskilled for not being able to dodge the item, you're unskilled for using a strategy that is terribly suited for the track you are playing. I go into more detail in the pinned comment.
@@Shortcat321but is that because it’s skillful to try and get better items or because of a design flaw? Do you think Nintendo would create a game that rewards staying in the back until the last possible second? There’s a reason why Nintendo nerfed bagging.
@@Shortcat321dawg not everybody can spend this much time on a fucking video game they just want to play causally
@@zigmaster5199then play casually against the bots on 150cc and dont be surprised when the gameplay in online competitive ranked is different 💀💀💀
@@Shortcat321So by your logic it's a skill issue to play the game as intended instead of abusing a non intended feature?
I don't think it takes no skill but it really takes the spirit out of the game
so does holding onto 4 "draw 4" cards to wombo combo your little brother when he says "uno" yet no one bitches about that
Nah thats completely different. You have to hold on to your good cards and be patient with that, with bagging, you literally just got slower to win an a frickin racing game. @@Randomness662
@@Randomness662you get to hear their reaction so its funny
@@Randomness662 Ball poop
@@Jinority and Mario Kart is about items lmfao. If someone's so pressed about using items to gain an advantage which is the core identity of a Mario Kart game, then play an actual racing game. May even want to consider Assetto Corsa since mfers want a realistic and skillful racing experience so bad.
i feel like i should have the ultimate say on this issue.
You should
I agree
So what's the verdict
So, what say you?
Whats the verdict?
The game would fall apart if everybody bagged
Exactly but most of the time u bag your not gonna get first there will always be frontrunners, if u bag u have a higher chance of getting a decent spot 1-6, if your a frontrunner half the time your gonna get combod and fall to the bag of the line anyways
there are lobbies full of baggers sometimes, it doesn't works
Bagging is like jumpscaring your opponents. Ideally, it's not going to be cheap.
Edit: dear god I started a war
But it always is
It is
But it is cheap
BULLET BILL JUMPSCARE
@@Major_Arachnid_1wtf do you mean cheap
I don't think it takes no skill but I do think the fact that purposely losing for several laps in a game that's about racing is a good or in some cases optimal strategy is bad game design.
100% agreed. I wouldn't mind if a few tracks worked like this, but the fact is that lots of tracks work like this and it gets pretty old. Bagging takes skill, but I don't think it should be one of the main skills required to win in mario kart.
Its simply not designed for competitive gameplay. Its designed to play with friends, and the comeback mechanics are there to help worse players have a chance.
If u want real racing then play a different game. I like bagging in Mario kart because it’s a very different playstyle from most racing games. Racing in Mario kart feels way different. Obviously it’s annoying when I front run and lose but If I wanted to sim race I’d go sim race
@@wesleybelcher2283 if you want real racing go play a different game? Bro I promise you it's not that serious
@HamLover17 I mean if you want a racing game without RNG play one without RNG. Mario kart wasn't made for competitive play
Bro was the kid who said he wasn’t playing when he got found in hide and seek
I think I understand the sentiment though. I don’t like that bagging works so well. I personally feel like the Wii Mario kart was a little bit better balanced with some* items. Front running in Mario Kart 8 is just asking for red shell galore.
I think the real issue is that this kind of feels like a design issue.
In a race you’re well supposed to go fast and finish the race in as little time as possible.
Rewarding going slow feels counter intuitive.
This.
If I take every turn optimally, because I practiced and learned how to time my drifts and boosts and I took every turn at EXACTLY the right angle, accounting for bumping other players, weight, etc etc... Then I should win.
And then some guy spammed items until they got a bullet bill and 3 shrooms, and apparantly that takes more skill.
it's because mario kart is not a competetive game, it's a party game. the game is balanced around 4 players on the same couch with vastly different skill levels still being able to enjoy the game, and for even the worst player to have a chance to win.
The game is based around item play, luck and overall driving skills. To be the best you can’t solely rely on driving alone, you need to be able to defend your position too. At the start of the race you need to make a decision about wanting to run or bag, sometimes running works and sometimes not, that’s part of the game.
@@pianoman7753 thats because it isnt gran turismo, go play a realistic racing game if you want to race realistically, you still have to know all the shortcuts, race well and know how to use items to bag, stop crying
I think you’re just playing the wrong game with this mindset
"You are not good at this game cuz you got hit"
Blu shell:literally a 100% accurate homing projectile
Skill issue
Unless you have a mushroom
Just perfectly timm a dodge
@@SuperAguakid
You could slowdown and let someone potentially overtake you.
The difference between racing games and Mario Kart is that in Mario Kart you have items. So the items are the main aspect of the game.
This right here is why I still go back to double dash, wii, and ds. It took *FUN* strategies to win
Bro said "skill issue" in the calmest and most respectful way possible
Bro said "skill issue" in anti-competitive party game settings.
Yeah, game is about items. Delivered by a slot machine.
"Give some respect to the" yeesh take your hand off it doofus-
"Da GayM iz nOt beeInG unFaIR."
Being unfair is what the newer, dumbed down 8 is FAMOUS for. It's DESIGNED to be a party game, to give a chance of hope to whatever casuals are present in your lobby.
"Yu ar juzT nOt gUd."
I could've handled the commentary if this guy wasn't a self-glorifying wanker about a party game with a slot machine for items.
Obviously, you can improve you odds by strategic management of items.
But the result is still ultimately dictated by the god-hand of Item Draw.
@@pathogeneration5138 Skill issue
@@Uggnog
Lol.
PARTY GAME
@@Uggnog
Sho sum ruhspekt
Far out, it's not QUAKE 3.
The skill gap is low. And it's heavily randomised.
You can do everything right. And smart.
Equalize the skillz and the gap still fades into the slot machine
@@Uggnog
And to get me not wrong, it's a fantastic game.
But this guy talking pretentious shit, as if its competitive streak is really precise and credible?
Yeesh doofus, get a grip.
getting hit by multiple red shells doesn't make you bad. you're just being targeted.
Yeah 😭 people just have it out for your ass
Shouldn’t have been in first.
Should've showed him his id address so noone would target you
@@MRBass6000 id address?
@@Birb112”shouldn’t have been in first in the racing game”
I think the issue is that you could frontrun the entire race, avoid being hit by every red, blue and green shell that comes your way, taking every shroomless shortcut perfectly, and then someone who's been sitting in 12th the entire race can just come win at the last minute just because they can mushroom boost through a mile of offroad.
the thing is though that doesn’t happen on every track. some tracks are horrible for bagging on. but i see your point. cheese land is notorious for having baggers pass you at the last lap. i’ve been leading that race many times only to somehow end up in 5th in the time span of like 2 seconds.
But that just means they had a better strategy and out played you.
because mario karts a strategy game, nor just an acceleator go brrrr game. If you use the same frontrunning strat every race with zero situational awareness, you wont win
@@jaycyclondoIt’s not a strategy game either wtf?
@@gene8792 yeah its a metaphor my guy, if u dont have a strategy and arent able to adapt to the race your gonna place bottom half of all 3000 or higher lobbies
In that clip, the bullet bill went straight towards Waluigi like it had a personal vendetta against him.
I guarantee you that if you were to speak with the developers of Mario Kart 8 (Deluxe), they'd tell you that this is exploiting a mechanic made to help a struggling player not to be cheesed due to the powerful nature of the item (and the fact Deluxe let's you stack 2 of them.)
does it matter what the devs think when we brought the game
devs remove exploits. bagging has been a thing in multiple mario kart games for ages. they’ve had chances to get rid of it and haven’t, meaning it’s not an exploit
@@junglejuicejunoi didn't even buy it☠️
because we should always do things exactly as nintendo and its employees say, of course
@@SkeletonGuyVTfr why would i take what the company that added slipping to smash brothers seriously, they make good games but can be lame sticklers with competitive play. we are not obligated to listen to them unless what they say gets fundamentally added through an update or something
Bagging is honestly just way more fun than front running in my opinion.
This. Both are valid means of playing, but items are half the fun of Mario Kart, and getting nothing but coins, bananas, and the occasional green shell isn't very fun, especially since even if you play perfectly, you're 1-2 blue shells or lightning bolts away from losing your position.
I do agree with the theme of the video though, both take skill.
@@darthimperious15941 min ago lol
I think frontrunning and bagging are both fun, just depending on the track. Bagging is incredibly frustrating when it doesn't work, so I wouldn't try bagging on a track with no shortcuts. But frontrunning is even MORE frustrating when you get unlucky with blue shells, red shells, and the shock.
@@Shortcat321Completely agree. Front Running is very satisfying if you only get 1 blue shell (generally good play can give you enough of a lead to survive one blue), and if you use your defense wisely enough to hold off the onslaught of reds. It takes strategy, it takes few mistakes, etc. I just feel like I more often than not get 2 blue shells, often with 2nd place coming up with triple reds lol.
Bagging sucks when, say, you get nothing but mushrooms on a track with no shortcuts, or triple mushrooms when then guy ahead of you gets the shock.
Bagging is comeback mode and when u get first it’s so satisfying
Dude was definitely that one kid on the playground
All of us were probably a kid on a playground
@@Instanenceand your the person that they didn’t even know because you where the one kid doing amine poses; insisting that they where cool.🤓
@@coolersTV many English
@@danielc.5724 Read it and don’t glazed it. It will make sense.
@@Instanence your parents are siblings 100%
This guy probably thought screen peeking was fine too playing Goldeneye
"Our shortest path was a detour"-gyro zeppeli
I see your point but for me it’s not an enjoyable experience. I see multiple players who race well the entire game then lose out because the track is rigged on the last lap. Almost every race dissolves to who can shock dodge and get a bullet/G mushroom/star combo. No thank you!
I wish bagging was less powerful as well. I have fun with it, but when bagging works on a track that isn't even full of shortcuts, it's just weird.
@@Shortcat321 First RUclipsr to reply to me ! 🥳 Love your videos, keep up the great content! Me and my roommates watch your stuff whenever it drops and always gets us in the Mariokart mood.
Cry
@@muffinconsumer4431 Grow up
This is exactly it shit ruins the game and isn't enjoyable
“The game is not being unfair, you’re just not good”
While it’s true skill plays a big role, no matter how obsenely good one can be at the game, blaming losses to “bad skill” when RNG also plays a part is a ridiculous claim. Even the best players can get abyssmal luck with lightning strikes, item pulls, etc.
Yeah it’s a pretty shitty and insensitive thing to say.
not entirely true, better players win WAY more often even with terrible RNG, in fact great players will use said RNG to its best outcome
@@user-we5xb8kv4k just like how Will-O-Wisp is a perfectly balanced Pokémon move, Aaron Zheng is just bad for missing it 3 times in a row in a single game.
@@calebbrown1068 why are you talking about pokemon when the video is about mario kart, the same issues do not apply to both
@@user-we5xb8kv4kbut it is pretty much RNG lose in example. in both cases, matches can simply be winned with RNG
I remember when I played Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing back in the day, I was getting tired of always frontrunning against the toughest AI and never getting the All-Star item as a result. So I started giving the other racers a full lap head start in a ten lap race. Made the game way more fun, and required me to constantly be trying my hardest to catch up. I now do it in other similar racing games where the lap counter can be changed.
Little did I know that this would be close to what is now known as "bagging".
The way I look at it is that front running takes more mechanical skill, bagging is more about strategy and using your items effectively.
I watched your videos and tried bagging myself because I thought it looked easy. That’s when I learned how bad I really was at this game. You really have to know the courses like the back of your hand to bag optimally and also know which courses it’s most beneficial to bag on. Definitely takes more skill than it seems
Cheese land was the first track I ever tried to bag on, and I thought it would be easy. Just get the bullet bill and use it at the first shortcut.
What actually happened was i would tunnel vision for the bullet bill and end up so far behind that it only takes me to 6th, and now I can't get another bullet bill and my race is over. From there, I'd panic and try to front run and lose.
Recently, I had a race on Cheese land where I got no bullet or shock, and I still won. Knowing what to do in every single situation is a skill that took me a long time to learn, and i'm still learning
nothing against your comment but "bagging yourself" sounds so weird and kinky 💀
@@Shortcat321Just like learning F2L!
@@Mr_Spudder First Two Layers? Like in speedcubing?
can't you just play the game like it was intended to be played???
This is genuinely a Mario kart 8 thing, because in other games, yes you can bag, but you don’t get punished for front running. If you front run in MK8, 2nd place will just spam you with triple reds. MK8 is more of who can bag for the better items and guess when shock happens, while other games like Mario Kart Wii showcase driving skills
That's partly why mkwii still has a large playerbase.
Not to mention you cannot at all strategize what item you're going to get, because of distance based item RNG being effectively impossible to judge from a glance. Not to mention several powerful items like stars and shocks no longer have a maximum amount in play (and the shock also no longer has a 30s cooldown that you can strategize around), so holding items becomes an RNG fest.
I knew mkwii had a more skill based balance.. those funky kongs were unreachable once they pulled away from the group
I miss Mario Kart Wii
That's why I love CTR. Alas, everyone I know play MK8. It's pretty cool, I love Splatoon so I'm driving with Inkling, but mmmman
The fastest racer rule gets thrown out the window when i get fucking blue shelled every 30 seconds and red shelled in between
Mario Kart is not about racing, it's about destroying friendships.
TL;DR: Both front running and bagging take skill, but bagging is a bit too overpowered currently.
While I agree that both strategies take skill, that bagging is by no means an easy strategy, my biggest issue with Mario Kart as a whole is that, if you're a skilled player, bagging, at least for part of the race, is significantly better than trying to front run.
I feel front running should be just as valid a strategy as bagging, assuming quality play, with the differences between the two coming down to the course. Hell, I'd like it if bagging were a kind of high risk, high reward strategy, but it seems almost the opposite.
I've found front running to be so unreliable that it's almost moronic to try and do it, at least from lap one. It's far more reliable to bag lap one, when the players are still fairly closely grouped, get a quality pair of items, then make a play for 1st, hoping to get there with a mushroom for the inevitable blue shell.
Anyways, overall, can't disagree with the vid, just wanted to vent my thoughts a bit lol
This is a great take! A lot of people think that "bagging takes skill" is the same as me saying "bagging is great". I totally agree with you that while bagging is not easy, maybe it shouldn't be so powerful in the first place. I think we'd all have a better time if front running was the best strategy on at least 80% of the tracks. I want bagging to exist to add diversity and skill ceiling, but I don't like how too often it's just the best way to play.
I might make a video on how bagging could be nerfed.
@ShroomlessShortcat Yeah, a variety of viable strategies would be great! That said, overall I think Nintendo has done a pretty decent job with the balance. I'm nitpicking here, if I'm being honest!
And I think I'll sub for that potential video :)
@@Shortcat321great idea
Agreed. I think blue shell spawn rate should go down a bit so that front running can be balanced out more for those who prefer to. I'm not even talking a big decrease but imo blue shells should only be spawning once a race, not two or three times. It's really ridiculous. At least that would make up for the onslaught of red shells that first place gets from 2nd and 3rd.
It's really disappointing when you have such a huge lead front running and you get bombarded so badly by blues reds and bolt. I feel like the hard work that went into getting so much space away from others is all pointless especially when you don't even keep your 1st placement. It's terribly discouraging.
@Kirb10 Yes, exactly! There should 100% be a way to dethrone a front runner, but it should come from 2nd/3rd raking advantage of a blue shell to fire their reds. Opportunity plus preparation. It's the 2nd and 3rd blues that really ruin it.l for me. Well said!
That's why MKDS was goated. Even with items, it was a racing game. You could dodge blue shells with drift and snaking alone.
whats the point of a blue shell then
@@mimori8ending friendships
@@mimori8For the noobs
@@mimori8to himdae first place players they still have a purpose they're just weaker
Nintendo should implement a penalty for staying behind in a race on purpose or something, or make a cool down between collecting items
If you backpedal/ backpedal behind item boxes, you are automatically banned from receiving bullet, shock, ad star. Mushroom king and triple mushrooms only. That would ban bagging. Either that, or van them from online
They'd have a detector for it also
That's literally what they did in the last update.
@@iceburgess461Doesn’t work that well tho, just hold accel to stay in bad placement and drive into walls, it’s still nerfed tho
Why not have a dedicted item dead zone that you into if you intentionaly bag.. like if you are too far from 11that only happens realisticly if your bagging. Where the items are the same as first place
And this is exactly why I'm going to be turning off items when i do races at my house. You're either good at driving, or you lose. Simple
Idk, green shells and bananas should at least be included to make it more diverse, otherwise there’s not really any difference between that and any other racing game
imagine calling someone bad for getting hit by heat seeking shells targeted at you
Imagine not dodging blue shells😂😂
@@ReaperXxKSometimes when you're in 1st you just have to take them. A super horn won't be around to save you every time.
@@goldenninja9053 definitely won't lol. And you won't always have a mushroom
Staying in first for a long time expecting to not get blue shelled when doing so is kind of what makes you bad at the game, no offense.
@@blixten635realtrue. it's frustrating but it's a natural part of the game. and sometimes it's really my fault i get hit bc i didnt prepare enough for it. everyone needs to take a step back and reflect on whether it was unfair or if it was their own fault for not preparing to FIGHT to keep that number 1 spot.
with that said tho, 3 red shells is pure evil...
A server full of "good players": no one's moving, everyone is just staying at the start line because they don't want to be 1st
That's what we call a degenerate mechanic!
You seem like the kind of guy to open your eyes during the hide and seek countdown as a kid
L
Counter point W
Bagging doesn't break the rules though?
But that breaks rules.
He’s more like the type to listen to their footsteps to know exactly where they’re going. It’s technically not cheating to listen to footsteps, but it’s not an intended feature.
Bagging is like slipstream in any other racing game you stay behind until you have enough help to win the race
This is essentially ‘youre bad if you stay in first’
No, it's "it's not cheap to use a strategy that's part of the game"
Your digging in way to deep my guy
If ur in first, even if no one bags ur still gonna get blasted by attacks on lap 3
You completely missed the point of thia video
I love front running, it is my favorite strategy, but i just cant state enough that front running takes more luck than bagging. I swear some times i get so lucky with front running, so much so i recently went on a 5 win streak with just front running. But the next day i was playing online and holy hell i was getting completely and utterly destroyed by red shells. I did not get a single first from a 4 hour play session. Red shells are so annoying in mk8 dx. If they weren't annoying enough i just loose all of my coins and from that I just can not recover because now im lost in the pack. I never found bagging annoying mostly because either way i get owned by red shells. Great short btw.
Thank you!! And omg that sounds rough. Yeah frontrunning is highly luck based, way more luck based than bagging. Red shells / blue shells / shocks are completely out of your control.
I also really enjoy frontrunning. I find it fun to try to get to first and maintain it but I also have to agree in the fact that it's an extremely hit or miss way to play. I enjoy the general first situation of having a defensive item and a coin and keeping up as good of a defense as you can but sometimes reds just never stop. Like my beef isn't even with blues most of the time, they're usually just the boss finishing you off from the onsalaught of enemies that are reds. I don't really bag often because it's not really my prefered strategy and I don't play on an actual competitive level, but it can certainly prove to be more useful for someone that knows what they're doing. Especially on good ol' Cheese Land.
Front running is my least favoritw i get hit one time and then i am in the middle and everyon is hittimg and bumping imto me and i dont have that kind of patcience
I honestly didn’t have a clue that people hated bagging so much, I personally don’t have much of a problem with it and it leads to super climactic endings sometimes.
Staying in first is the handy cap I accept.
This has made me realise why i always lose in online races, i play the game like a normal person and that's a big mistake if i want any chance of having fun in random matches.
It’s annoying that it works in my opinion. I wanna race!
Yes, I'm totally down for a bagging nerf. I doubt nintendo will do it though
@@Shortcat321You can nerf bagging. Don't do it
Play forza then
@@TheonlysparkleOwo That’s a terrible argument. I like how Mario kart plays
@@AyoSteven.Official everyone else will and you’ll get destroyed
Which isn’t a nerf but a handicap
“Wah someone used the mechanics better than me”
- people who get worked up over bagging
Bagging in Mario kart is in a similar position to backwards driving in most other racing games(track mania mainly). In track mania backwards driving requires a lot of skill and due to some coddling oversights sim of the older games it is possible to be faster going backwards than forwards.
“Using a bullet and golden mushrooms to pass everyone takes skill” - this guy
Blud has the comprehension habilities of a peanut
you have to know shortcuts and which items are optimal for each map, it takes skill to bag and get the lead
It takes skill to get those items and still win. You can’t do that in 1st place.
Use strategy next time, instead of mindlessly pressing A
u ever seen horse racing? the one at the front from the start usually loses. Same w mario kart, first place = most targettable, fronteunning is bad for most maps. Mario Karts a strategy game, not just a racing game. You gotta utilise your items right, take big risks, shld u risk exposing urself to a shell for the chance of a shroom to take that shortcut or just play it safe? If you play mk properly youd realise quickly
People really saying it takes skill to pick up items and use them accordingly 💀
Honestly I thought Mario kart was about having fun rather than being a professional racing experience
Sadly there will always be people online who think playing video games just for the fun of it is something worth criticizing
learning how to play the game optimally is where the fun lies for a fair amount of people
Part of mastering a technique is learning when to and when not to use it.
Them: "Bagging is cheating!"
Me: "sounds like a skill issue bud."
It's not easy to play like that,the problem about this strategy is that it completely ruins the point of playing a racing game and turns a fun game into the 100th competitive game
I mean, you compete in races
@@pabkedv9641Don't even try it
@@sap-fling-sap try what
That argument
@@sap-fling-sap i dont get your point?
Bagging is like counting cards in poker. It is against the spirt of the game even if it is sometimes optimal and very skillful.
Depends
In some instances its like counting cards
In some its like hiding aces in your sleave (the levels that exploit unforseen mistakes in movement, exploits are cheating in multiplayer games.)
But additionally its as serious as an at home play with no cash. Sure sometimes its cheating but whatever
Yeah if pol agree to it fine but i don't play with it. To me its against the spirit of the game. In soccer if you pass the ball to your goalie without using your foot or a deflection, it is okay. You could always scoop the ball from your foot to your head and pasd to his hands which i think its against the spirit of the rules.
@@CaptainChukFully agree with you. A big reason Mario Kart is so popular for casual gaming with friends/family is because the item system gives an advantage to players who are struggling and need it. Keeps things tense, you don’t know who’s going to win and there’s always a chance? Taking that system as a good player and twisting it just takes the fun out for anyone looking to just play for casual enjoyment.
Also both are cool
Imagine if they made a cup that didnt have power ups. That would be all racing at that point
then it would be boring as hell, the spirit of Mario Kart is in the items
Sounds amazing. You would require skill and wouldn’t rely on exploits
Bagging got patched😁
Edit: I think
No, just nerfed
@@CrackhogHow?
@iceburgess461 It made it so you cant just stay and re grab the same item box, you actually have to be moving forward.
So now its more just be at a bad spot and dont stop for items, just keep moving forward, not that big of a nerf
Dawg when did I comment this😭😭
@@C-shorts_Animations It's only been a month
It's kinda funny how some say it takes skill to play and win in Mario Kart, which to an extent is true, but you gotta remember it's also highly rng based. You can be a really good player but you can also get Mario Kart'd *hard* and lose a race just like that 🙃
The fact that Mario Kart’d is even a phrase proves the game isn’t fair in terms of skill. When your phrase for getting screwed is about the game itself and not other players, you know it’s not just a skill issue 😂
If I'm the best player in the room, what are the chances I win the next race? Maybe about 30%.
What are the chances I outperform everyone else on average? About 90%.
Yes, this game is highly luck-based. But it's not so luck based that you will consistently lose to players worse than you.
Also when I was grinding my worldwide rating, I got 1st place every single race until about 5000 VR. Right now at 16000 VR, I can get top 3 on more than 70% of the races. Even though luck is important, skill absolutely matters a lot.
@@Shortcat321 Wish i could do it. But i just get hit by everything.
I was First and the Finish line was about 5-10 seconds away.
Then i got hit by 3 Red shells, that were timed pretty well and end up on place 5, then someone hits me with a Star and the next one with a Bullet Bill.
I got last Place just because of the Items from the other Players, even if i was First place the entire Time.
Sure this game needs some Skill to win, but it also depends on some LUCK:
You can be Lucky and no one behind you gets Red or Blueshell to stop you.
Or you can be unlucky and they manage to put you from Place 1 to Place 12 with Lucky Items.
this happened to me in rosalina’s ice world lmao, i was not even 3 seconds away from goal in 1st and i got blue shelled, red shelled, and knocked to the off-road, and i went right to last place 😭
Sometimes the Mario Kart council, when deciding your fate for that race, will decided to just fuck you over. And we can’t question them.
It’s a children’s racing game. It was balanced around the idea that the items are supposed to help bad players. Intentionally staying behind kinda ruins the game, cause not everyone can do it. Someone has to drive forward for the race to end, and bagging punishes players who don’t want to wait forever.
Yeah, except he plays online which literally puts you agaisnt people the same rating??? Like??? He aint playing with new players 💀
@@shineskopes and? My point remains the same. Someone has to drive forward. They can’t all bag.
@@shineskopesyeah, except I'm pretty sure that's not 100% true, given the number of lobbies I've been placed in with multiple people around the 100k range despite me being a new player online with barely 15 races to my name. The game definitely doesn't always put you against people the same rank.
I mean there's literally a decent amout of front running tracks as much as bagging tracks. It's not hard to frontrun like at all just make sure u always have a single banana or a shell and you'll be fine the only way you would get shocked or blue shelled even semi often is literally because of you having way more distance then the rest of the pack which is distance u wont have on average if we're being realistic
To summarize all of that bagging isnt really a punishing strat it's just smarter and safer to do then front running and its main use is for people starting in the back of the pack anyways.
This is the type of guy to absolutely crush a make a wish kid in a race then say “your just bad”
I like to practice and play with my family on frantic item settings. It makes it way easier to get in first but really hard to stay. Trying to front run with experienced family members and hard computers makes for a very dynamic game
@breadandcircuses8127 it’s also great to train resistance to passing your controller to the person on the floor below you when you get hit by 11 red shells from 2nd and still get shocked off the jump
UPDATE: Bagging got nerfed! Everyone who is saying "bagging is dead" um... you didn't read the patch notes because bagging hardly changed. Anyway, i LOVE that bagging got nerfed slightly. I defend the skill and strategy required to bag effectively, but i do not and have never defended the strange game design that caused bagging to become so powerful.
A lot of people are commenting about this so I will clarify:
"Getting Mario karted means you're bad at the the game" is not what I said. I was specifically talking about a track such as Mario kart stadium (lots of shortcuts). If you get hit in 1st, EVERY single item passes by you, and you will get hit again. The skill issue is that *you tried to frontrun a bagging track*, and experienced players know that's a dice roll.
Sadly this game doesn't reward being in 1st, it rewards you for good strategy. On sunshine airport, 1st place is the best spot. On cheese land, 1st place is the worst spot.
Dont like this? Me neither honestly. Personally, I would nerf bagging since this is a really weird.
Regardless, bagging requires more skills than frontrunning. You need to know how to frontrun if you get into 1st early. You need to know optimal positioning on 96 tracks, and how to best use any 2 items at any moment on any track. Bagging takes a lot of decision making, and frontrunning is relatively simple since it's just a time trial where you hold the L button sometimes.
And for those who say im coping for lack of driving skill, trust me im still way better at frontrunning than bagging. I have a video where i do only frontrunning, and another with only bagging. I did way better frontrunning if you want to check them out!
I dont play mario kart but i can see it is like chess a map is like a chess player some maps need a defense strategy saftey like bagging some need running into a checkmate that is the map/players that dont have a defense
@@mehungry_well put
Im not reading all that
@@Zipped44 Fr. Bro is so heated over this one game that has consumed his whole life and personality😂
Still lame and unskill
Personally, I just think it’s a more boring way to play the game. Like playing this game with friends who are all casuals that don’t bag makes the game a lot more enjoyable.
I would bag against my casual friends and call it "you get a head start!"
Exactly. It's just so boring. Idk how people do it
@@Shortcat321and that's how you lose mario kart privileges
@@cobaltblu4196buddy that's called a skill gap
@@Carma281 Cool, you ain't playin mariokart with me again.
we just trying to have a chill race while you exploit the game? Yeah fuck off buddy
That glide at the end was dirtyyy
Sounds like Nintendo fixed this after wave 6 came out.
It's like camping in fps games.
Facts
Eso de verdad no tenía sentido o simplemente no juego a juegos de fps
It's basically the same thing. Rather than actually competing, you're abusing a poorly-planned game mechanic.
That's not to say you're not _personally_ skilled - it's just to say that you're winning in a way that _doesn't require skill._
@@IsomerMashupsbut camping is super easy to counter
bagging takes skill
This is the camper argument. That is all thank you
literally
comparing a racing game to a fps???
@@rustinhaigood its the same argument campers use, and yes, you can camp in racing games.
@@TheJinx64 i did not know camping in fps is a integral feature in the game.
@rustinhaigood argument is the same using a cheap tactic to get a leg up and claiming everyone else should just get better ever though you admit cheap tactic gives you an edge
Being in first place for most of the race is the true challenge. "Bagging" is easymode.
Bagging just to end up in 2nd place is crazy😭
Videos like these make me wish fzero still existed as ya know, a series
True. That was supposed to be the tryhard racing game. Who cares about competing this hard in mario kart of all things?
Fzero was the pinnacle of racing games no doubt
I remember when mario kart was about having fun with ur family, not sweating against strangers
True
yeah this guy taking mario kart seriously is insanely pathetic. next game theyll try to make competitive is mario party
@@ej3601 minecraft got competitive, roblox got competitive, among us got competitive, fortnite got competitive. Fall guys got competitive. There’s literally a whole community of people who speedrun mario games to see who gets the highest score. Literally get in line with the rest of us 🙄
Of course these games would get competitive. It’s a racing game - These people aren’t playing to “have fun” their playing to win (because that’s where their fun comes from, winning). In any game where there’s winning - people will get competitive and come up with strategies. Deal with it
@@ej3601As much as I like to be competitive at the game, I would never take it this seriously and be this pathetic at it. Just play it normally and have a good time trying to win.
@@ej3601 People will take eveything seriously and that's their perogative. No need to be a dick about it.
I like to play Mario Kart more casually. Still find it fun to look at this, just for the trivia.
That’s why I always stay around 3 or 5th place because I still get triple mushrooms around that placement sometimes even stars!
Bro just said "skill issue" in the most polite way
Good reason to never play online thanks for the warning.
Skill issue
The real world is scary. U better just stay in ur mom house forever 😂😂😂
@@Congnhan.NailtoclabonthathcNGUwhat is bro yapping about
@@Congnhan.NailtoclabonthathcNGUI thought video games were an escape why we talking about real life?
@@Congnhan.NailtoclabonthathcNGUBro is going on a tangent
My favorite thing about MK is the cross between real racing mechanics and gambling. Combing the pure skill of racing with the risk/reward of being delt items, and knowing how to use them, is just SO satisfying. Its really a shame people write off the game for being too random without stopping to understand the mechanics
Randomness is just another obstacle, after all
And for those who want pure racing, they can do time trials.
@@kaizoisevil Or no items mode
@@theonlypc4906 I mean that works but that’s essentially what a time trial is
@@theonlypc4906 I played no items mode and GOD IT'S SO BORING I take back every complaint I ever had about items in mario kart
This is what happens when mariokart becomes your personality
People when they realise that talking about mario kart is his job because he earns from it: 🤯🤯🤯
people when the guy who has a mariokart channel does the unthinkable and… talks about mariokart
You're saying Mario kart is his whole personality... Commenting on a video uploaded to his Mario kart centric channel...
this is what happens when boykisser becomes your personality
Ah yes, water is wet.
This makes me like bagging even more now that I know people get pissed off by it
SAME
You were probably that one kid on the playground that always said "pause" when you were about to get tagged
@@maybefoxtartWhy is every antibagger clearly a child
Can you explain why you think I'm a child?
@@maybefoxtart well I'd guess more younger teen but the whole "Bro's the type of kid to ruin our playground games" feels like something a 14 year old would say
I want a racing game, not a memorization test
Even with out the comeback mechanic the games has short cuts and optimal routing on some course...
This game is a memorization game already. Every Mario kart game has been that since the beginning. If you drive "intuitively", you will lose by over 5 seconds on every track to the best players in the world who have every single line memorized.
If you don't believe me, go time trial a track you haven't memorized and see how close you come to the world record.
@@Shortcat321 Wrong, Mario cart DS did not have this
@@arbitrarymelonthings look better with rose tinted glasses
“If you keep getting hit, then you’re not good at Mario Kart.” Yes, because I had control over second place getting triple reds. (Having bad item management is what makes you bad when trying to front run. Sometimes this can lead to getting hit a lot but sometimes it is also just rng.)
Edit: Racing lines also matter a lot.
I'm talking specifically about that track. You will almost never get combo'd from first on a track like sunshine airport or Paris promenade. But on a comeback track, you will get destroyed because everyone is catching up to you with powerful items. Choosing to frontrunning is choosing to run that risk
@@Shortcat321
You're defending bagging by saying that other people bag. That's circular.
@@IsomerMashupsyour comment is very confusing, given that he never actually mentioned other players and this technique nor defend it "because others are doing it".
@@Shortcat321 youre right but also its still lame as fuck
Competitive mkwii players having a dedicated bagger who races the other bagger backwards to increase their chance of getting shock 🥶
I really like your short cuts videos.
The fact that it takes skill doesn't make it any less good
From my experience, it depends on the race track, your skill level, and luck. Both bagging and front running can work, and they could easily go wrong.
Mario Kart requires skill when I’m winning, but when I’m losing it’s just about luck.
L.
I will say one of my favorite moments in Mario Kart is that 2 of my friends and I were playing online, and we all did the Gold Mario Build (All Gold everything, terrible build) and we would always get around 2nd, 4th, 8th. Around those spots every game, until, the holy moment, where we went all out, we had 1st and 2nd early in the 1st lap and 2nd place would protect 1st place and then our 3rd friend got in 3rd and we would protect each other, when one of us got hit with the Blue Shell, 2nd goes to 1st and the line continues. We finished 1st/2nd/3rd with the worst Mario kart build and it’s a moment I will never forget
In short form: „do everything to win“
Yeah that's how higher level games work.
Bagging is lame and encourages being lame as hell. Does it take skill? Sure. Is it still lame? Yes. Do I respect it or players who can do it well? Nope.
U prob suck at Mario kart
Exactly this. Its like camping in a corner with god aim. Is it a winning strategy? For sure. Is it part of the game? Yes. Is it lame? Without a doubt. This is why I play with friends, because people like this sweat at a game. Even wiis bagging wasnt as bad, it was mostly skillful driving, and good management of the tools in the game.
This is why the pitch clock (and the shot clock before it) now exists. Is sandbagging skill-testing? For sure.
It’s also true that not playing the game being a competitively optimal strategy sucks if we’re talking about fun. You aren’t wrong for making winning move, you just shouldn’t be rewarded for it in the first place.
Just because something takes skill, doesn't mean we necessarily want to reward that skill. I agree with that idea.
The thing with running out the clock in basketball is it's degenerate. What I mean by this is the game usually involves many skills, but running out the clock involves 1 very easy skill. Plus, basketball relies on viewers for revenue, and viewers don't like stalling. Therefore, the shot clock is a great solution for the game and for viewership.
With bagging in mario kart, it's not quite the same. Sure, waiting around for items is degenerate and anyone can do that. But making the comeback is not degenerate, and requires the same skills as front running, plus way more.
I still think bagging should be nerfed because it goes against the spirit of a racing game. But it should still exist and be good on some tracks, because this is also an item game. I just don't think it necessarily compares to stalling in basketball.
@@Shortcat321Yees, im bad at mk, and dont play online, but just imagine i go online, play a match, and actually play well just to have TACTICAL NUKE INCOMING on my screan and 5 gods rush from last place to first, shattering my ego and will to live. Dont mean it doesent take skill, but why do i get RAILED like that for racing in a racing game. Thats just my opinion though and im bad at mk
@derinlander in that situation you define "play well" as "do good at racing only".
The game is a racing game. It is also an item game.
This isn't to be disrespectful, but if you're only defining "do well" as "race only" you're ignoring half of the game, and you're not actually doing well. At best you're performing at 50% capacity.
Because front running in mario kart means you have to get lucky with red and blue shells
@@zeroshadowzsnah bagging makes it entirely an item game that’s the issue, racing doesn’t even matter it’s just get the right items
BuT BaGgInG iS a ChEaP sTrAtEg-
I don't bag because of a skill issue
I always try to front run. It usually ends with me being in a top spot bc my lines are better. When the blue shell hits, ill pretty much always have enough of a breakaway that it doesnt matter
Remember when we just played the game instead of doing everything in your power to be a pest
Pepperidge farm remembers
They’re just explaining how and why it’s a good strategy. You are the one freaking out.
womp womp
I wanna see a whole lobby that wants to bag but when Lakito says go nobody moves.
No skill? More like no humanity
I just learned about this, this weekend. It's pretty interesting. I'm a fighting game dude so seeing a game like Mario kart have a different method of playing is cool
It really is, people get pissed for no reason
Frontrunning takes a lot more skill because your goal is to optimize your run while playing defensively at the same time. You need to run the course using every shortcut you can without the help of boost items, take turns as tightly as possible, and put as much distance as possible between you and the rest of the pack so any hits that get through your defense won't ruin your placement. "Bagging" (I think a better term is "Lagging") gives you a better chance at turning the tables which is exactly why it takes *less* skill.
Idk I win more when I frontrun than bag
I’d like to see you bag without a tutorial. Let me know how well it goes.
@jamvey bagging got nerfed, it requires more skill now. And honestly, it’s way more fun now in my opinion.
@@blixten635realI’m so happy for that
@@destroyermcw626 yeah, same. Bagging is still viable, but more fun. Perfect for me.
Bagging doesn't take skill and this short just strikes me as bagger copium
Fr it's like saying "ummh akshually camping is very optimal way of playing shooters☝️🤓"
@@ginkowave5829 "Camping is a REAL strategy!!!! 🤓🤓"
“You get hit over and over, you’re just bad at Mario kart” *say that to me after a 5 hour session of grinding my driving skills*
This is the game where you can get sent from first to last with one bad hit, especially when people are actively trying to win and prevent you from winning.
In my comment I never said it didn’t take skill or anything like that. Just that I didn’t like it because it is antitehtical to racing.
Such a point was still not addressed by an angry sounding shortcat here
I addressed it by saying this is not just a racing game, but item management is also an important skill. If you want to have pure races, you can time trial.
LOL
@@Shortcat321but you didn't. All you did was admit to abusing a broken game mechanic. Abusing the items in MK to go from willingly losing a race to winning in the last lap is actually going against what racing games are supposed to be. You didn't address anything, all you did was insult a bunch of people by calling it a "skill issue" when it's actually a problem in the game not a lack of skill with the other players. All you did was get real nasty at everyone who called you out in a not so well thought out YT short, then all but back peddled in the comments of the people who aren't stroking your ego.
@@meganrenfro1704fr
@@Shortcat321Time trial is not the same as person to person racing.
That's a different game.
I think the problem is that most of the fanbase is casual players and being as sandbagging is a competitive strategy for competitive players, they naturally aren't fans of it. But when you have the lobbies that I do or actively play competitive (lounge), you need strategies like these if you want a chance at winning
Nerf now the casuals will have to get good
8 months in the future and it's still a corny ahh strat
Bro sounded PISSED at the end of the video.
"Yeah, if you get hit by completely unavoidable red shells, you're just bad at the game."
~Logic of the millennium