This Might Be The Perfect Mini PC
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 This is all I've ever wanted
0:33 Sponsor - Aranet
1:55 The MS-01 Specs
5:00 The U.2 Situation
6:11 Some benchmarks and power draw
8:01 Video editing and gaming
9:22 Power draw with Linux
9:35 Transcoding with Jellyfin
10:00 Proxmox and 10Gb Performance
11:10 vPRO / AMT
12:39 Some complaints and suggestions
15:33 Pricing and Value Proposition 
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Just want to say thanks for adding what I assume was voice corrections ("280") rather than popup graphics. For those hard of sight it makes for an easier experience. Thank you good sir. 👍
Agreed! I tend to listen to these video's mostly and don't look at the screen all the time. A subtle sound effenct when a correction graphic is displayed might be a good alternative, without reshooting the whole shot. Thanks for the content!
I really appreciate your personal, practical take on this and the in depth look. It may be in a different class than some of the systems that you often review but it can also do a lot more. Thank you!
Thanks!
My big problem with this kind of design is that it only supports 1 slot half height PCIe cards. If it was 2 slot, I'd be more than willing to pay that price for one. Bonus being I could turn it into a multi-task server, with max TDP of just an enterprise CPU.
There are other options for SFF that contain 2-slot configurations. single slot or half-height single slots are so rare now adays especially for those that are looking for an extremely compact system that still allows for PCI-E options.
@@Daxiongmao87 Eh, fair point. I did look into SFF cases in general out of boredom, but 3L/4L w/ GPU are either not restocked or hard to find... It seems. Oh well. I'm not in rush.
@@wojtek-33Cheers on directing me towards that one, I'll keep it in mind
@@wojtek-33 Right, thanks again
It may be an incomplete product, but there's nothing technically preventing you from casemodding a PCI-e riser or using an PCIe OCuLink card.
Another excellent video. Interesting product, and seemingly pretty well targeted.
I always enjoy your videos - in a world of shouty tech vids, your quiet and calm approach is a pleasant change. Keep up the good work!
Thanks!
This is the second video I've watched of yours and I really like how you edit the audio for mistakes instead of just showing it on screen. I like to play BeamNG when I'm watching RUclips and I'll miss the on screen corrections on channels like LTT and GN and etc.
Taking 2u when in a rack is rough. Adjusting the case to take 1u and possibly some airflow adjustments would be great. Could market it as a bastion/utility server.
maybe it could be transplanted into 1u?
i was thinking about running 3 of them vertically, next to some other > 1u machine i already have on a shelf
Unless racks have gone through recent drastic change, you could double (or even TRIPLE) the depth of this case. That might even make it easier to fit a rear mounting bracket, to hold the weight.
Plus, if you place it on a sliding tray, the tray takes up another 1U of rack space anyway.
double 2 u is more realistic. Mikrotik has a range of 2u half width that can snap together into the same 2u mounting brackets
I bought 3d printed rack mount - 3U for 4 units. Sure you still loose some space, but less is lost and it's actually hold pretty nice! Found it at Hive Tech Solutions from Australia which they sent me to Poland... took a while and actually cost a lot. I don't think I'll ever buy from them again - they (both "they" as people and "they" as device) were great but it's too expensive. With price being 1/6 of 3D printer, I would rather buy a printer and learn how to use it because it'll be useful later in my life.
He said "I don't mind burning bridges with companies that send me bad products!" 😂 +1
Important note for anyone who considering putting a U.2 drive in this system:
The height of the U.2 drive must not exceed 7mm, which excludes some of the most popular U.2 drives on the market, such as Kioxia CD6, WD SN640, or Samsung PM1733/1735, which are all 15mm drives.
I saw this machine but still got myself a Think Station P3 tiny. I chose an ES motherboard so that I got 3 M.2 slots. I paired the P3 tint with the i5-12400 and it was 1/3 cheaper than the MS-01 with the 12900H option.
There seemed to be an i5-12450h option with the MS-01, but it is not available and we don't know when they will start selling this option. I don't really like the i9 CPU that MS-01 provides right now because I don't want to stretch the cooling system too far.
I did see the appeal of the dual 10G NIC but for someone who doesn't really need it, it is a piece of hardware that consumes power and does nothing. On the other hand, I can add USB type A, DP, HDMI, or TypeC with video and charging to the Tiny via expansion modules, which makes it very flexible. However, doing this does sacrifice the PCIE cutout.
It is also more difficult to install PCIE cards sideways compared to Tiny's riser approach. At least it doesn't require a special PCIE bracket though.
All in all, I think both MS-01 and P3 Tiny are both nice SFF machines. It really comes down to whether you prefer the dual 10G SFP port and the USB4 port, (Yes, it is USB4 rather than Thunderbolt, although they are functionally the same.) or more flexibility.
I will also provide a quick technical comparison here for anyone interested:
P3 Tiny |VS| MS-01
form factor: Standard size |VS| A bit larger than Standard size. (Matters if you want to put it in a server rack.)
CPU: Any CPU from Intel 12,13 and 14GEN |VS| 13900H,12900H, or 12450H. (12450H not available yet.)
iGPU: MS-01 is always better as mobile chips always get better iGPU compared to their desktop counterpart.
NIC: i219-LM 1Gx1 |VS| i226v 2.5G + i226LM 2.5G +x710 10Gx2. (Both machines can support vPRO.)
PCIE: Gen4/5 x8 |VS| Gen4/5 x8. (Gen5 is available on 13th Gen CPUs.)
PCIE specific: Need custom PCIE bracket |VS| Difficult to install and uninstall.
USB Expansion: 4x10G type A + 2x5G type A + 1x10G type C |VS| 3x10G type A + 2x 480 M(2.0) type A + 2x40G USB4. (Tiny can expend 4x 5G type A or 1x10G type C with Video and charging expansion module, by giving up the PCIE cutout.)
Video Expansion: DP1.4 + HDMI 2.0 |VS| HDMI 2.0 + 2xUSB4. (Tiny can expend 2xDP, 2xHDMI, or 2xTypeC DPalt via the expansion module, by giving up the PCIE cutout.)
Storage Expansion: 2xM.2 |VS| 2xM.2 + 1x M.2/U.2. (Tiny get 3xM.2 on the ES motherboard)
That was such a fun and interesting watch! I'm currently on the hunt for some ITX build ideas to put together for my mother, and you've got my noggin rollin'. Thanks a bunch!
I like that you included the comparison with the N100 since this gives me a good idea of the performance difference to expect for devices with a similar form factor.
I'm interested in Aranet's cloudless design. According to some info I googled, they support SNMP in their Pro series. I would love to see how to set it up for self hosted environment monitoring. Linking it to Grafana or something would be awesome.
Great professional review, I gained alot of info. Thank you!
Your custom sound tracks are my one of favorite parts of your videos. Hoping we can get a mixtape on Spotify to add to my playlist.
Maybe one day!
I love my Aranet! Unexpected but nice to see that they’ve sponsored you, first time I’ve seen them do a sponsorship
Theyre very expensive though...
This is a great idea for a home lab server, small and has the connections you would want. I wanted a few more cores, so I went with the MinisForum BD790i and a Mellanox 10G SFP+ card and two NVMe's for storage. I like this mini itx board and using it's 16core/32thread CPU for Virtual Machine host. Good video as well! Thanks!
Reminds me of the Thinkstation Tiny's from Lenovo, those also have a PCIe slot in a 1L package
Great point on the height. Would love to see a rackmount version of this
Fortunately it wouldn’t be too hard to just mount them to a rack shelf. I imagine making a front plate would be fairly doable as well if you need it enclosed for airflow
Can you even rack mount top vented cases? Lenovos seem better for this, can tightly pack those in rack as it only draws air from the front and exhaust from the back
Y'all just earned a sub. Really good overview of this system's build, capabilities, advantages and caveats! I just wish I had the money to throw out to get one. That would be such a great platform to make a home-based cloud setup.
Really hope they do a few more models similar to this, perhaps with i7 or lower power CPU
There's currently an option with the Intel i5-12450H for $419 with the early bird special, so it seems like they're open to testing different hardware in this model.
Were you able to test with powertop by chance? As I understand it, most Miniforum computers don't have the bios settings necessary to reach low power states. Perhaps that's why it idled at 14w.
I wouldn't mind 4 of these, in a cluster for ESXi or Proxmox. Dual 10G means having a separate NAS, ah it would be the perfect setup.
wish they’d make a PCB that could be in a typical PC case and a rack mount enviroment so it could be used as a NAS.
Not practical for actual use but if you want to really stress/test Plex transcoding get a 4k HDR file and transcode it down to 240p or lower it will look like garbage but will stress the heck out of your GPU/APU.
I’m planning to move to a more standardized benchmark process when I can make the time to. In which case I want to test more practical and “synthetic” transcodes. Thanks for the input!
I actually bought this air quality sensor a few months ago and immediately integrated it into home assistant. It's great for letting me know when the CO2 levels are getting to high.
wich air sensor?
@@nickgames1892the one he talked about in the beginning of the video
@@nickgames1892 Tell me you didn't watch the ad spot with saying you didn't watch the ad spot.
@@camerontgore yeah you right.
Thanks for giving your personal thoughts on the MS-01. I wonder if Minisforum will come out with some enhancements soon. I’m in need of a new PC.
I would love to see someone get iGPU passthrough to work to a Proxmox VM (Linux guest) so the PCIe slot could be used for extra M.2 storage.
if you just want transcoding you can pass through the quicksync engine and a bunch of gpu features via LXC.
@@manitoba-op4jx Thanks for the suggestion, but I want full iGPU passthrough for a 24/7 Linux desktop.
Use these as packet capture appliances thanks to the dual 10gb sfp+ and the ability to put a 7450 max 1.6tb ssd U.2 drive that can do 3DWPD. Crazy they designed something like this perfect for a sensor use.
0:40 I DO! Great little sensor.
I'm surprised this doesn't have rack mount capabilities, I could see 2 on a 1U shelf or 1 with a special rackmount adapter being pretty useful
I'll wait for this to release on amazon and will use Affirm of course ;)
The thing I hate about small form factor systems is the severe lack of expandability.
I have one of those Lenovo systems that I had hoped to transfer to a bigger case and add a better power supply so that I could put in a decent graphics card. Of course they used a proprietary front panel connector that sits right behind the PCI-x16 slot, so if the card is too long, it will block that connector.
I know what to get your for Christmas now 😁
Another Netgear NAS???
I am missing the PCIe4 M2 slots (so can use the U2 AND 2x M2 with PCIe4 x4), for the rest it is a perfect box (and yes, I want 4 of them). And you can get about 6 of them in a 2U rackspace; I don't need to see the frontplate so you can use a sliding shelve.
Best add i saw in 2 decades that Aranet is mind blowing i did not knew something like this exist
While this particular device doesn't tick all the boxes for me it's pretty cool that minisforum is listening to all the people who have been asking for a device like this. I agree that making it that size is kind of a miss, but it's honestly not a bad first effort to iterate from for an 02 in the future.
Did you try and test one of the USB4 ports for an external graphics card?
External sas card and your golden for jelly fin. This is a neat mini
I just got this the cooling leaves something to be desired but being to able to use a server ssd card and 3x m.2 is great
It could be interesting to check if there's any arc A310 that could fit in hit so you could do AV1 encoding in a very small home server.
Sparkle has an A310 Eco that should fit. Encode on those cards is a beast but don't count on them for lots of render power.
You ALREADY PAYED royalties for CODECS inside of a CPU. So why not use them ? AV1 is only pushed because silicon valley does not want to pay royalties to europe for HEVC....
@@IvanNedostal Or maybe they just want to use that codec. I've noticed that it provides the best image quality for my recordings compared to hevc and has quite good performance.
@@IvanNedostal I don't want to pay royalties to Europe, either!
@@DigitalJedi Netflix is not doing what youre doing.
Nice thing for diy-router. With DPDK it could route 10GE at wire speed with NAT, I think.
Finanly got 3 of them today!
I ordered lowest tier with i5-12600H and I tried to fill it with 96GB which as docs says should only works with highest i9-13600H. 96GB Worked flawlessly on that lowest tier! Also, SFP+ ports are based on Intel X710 and has SR-IOV which allows to create up to 64 virtual network interfaces - great for virtualization - I think noone mentioned that ever! Apparently SR-IOV for Xe Graphics should also work but I haven't got it working. It looks like Alma Linux has older kernel which doesn't have drivers latest enough, so I'll be trying later with other distros or maybe just kernel recompiling. With all of that found, the deal is getting better and better each minute...
16-threads of pretty great processing power, 2x SFP+, 2x RJ45 2.5G, 500GB SSD and 96FB RAM for 4000zł (about 1000 USD / 930 EUR) is GREAT DEAL! I found X710 PCIe network cards for 1/4 of that! Unbelievable great deal! I'm supper happy and I got 3 of them :D
This wll be great Kubernetes cluster (or maybe even OpenStack?)!
Perfect add, thank you I’ll probably buy one. I’ve been getting sick recently. For real maybe it’s the air.
True. New mini computer should 100% stop you getting sick for sure.
Hope you bought it (for the sake of your health) and that you are feeling much better after a month. All the best :).
@@funbucket09 lmao!
model with a bunch of M.2 on x2, 1x SFP+, 1x RJ45 NIC, no PCI-E slot, slimmed down, maximizing the number of NVMe drives would be super cool as well.
First, great video and great analysis! I agree with your conclusions. This is a bit expensive at almost $1k, but you're getting a lot of bang for your buck! Having 3x M.2 slots and a PCIe slot to add more, it would make a good home server with a small virtualized high-speed NAS.
Second, I didn't realize you had a video production background. BlackMagic should definitely make a half-height DeckLink card! It would make these mini PCs a fantastic option for churches or other small video production teams.
Thanks! And it’s primarily on the audio side, but I worked some with broadcast video. My previous job was overseeing church production, so that’s exactly what my brain went to haha
@@HardwareHaven oh, that's awesome!! Our church is a bit the smaller and more traditional, but I'm responsible for almost all IT-related parts. Sound, presentation, cameras, stream, Internet/network, security cameras..... Probably half of my "home lab" thoughts are about what I could use it for at church 😁
This is basically a server. For me, it's a Supermicro E300 comparison at half the cost.
You can get 96 GB of DDR5 SODIMM for $250+ and a 2 TB WD Black M.2 for $130. If you buy the barebone i912, you can build a more powerful server for $1200, fully loaded, over a bare Supermicro E300 at $1700. The downside here is you get 6 real cores and 8 hybrid vs 8Cx16T.
I'd pay the extra $200 for a Xeon in this thing. The network and M.2 make it worth it.
If you have a graphics card lying around and a PCI-E Riser, how about you test a high end graphics card with it? could be interesting to see that 8x pci slot performance.
that is an interesting Mini PC as usual, your videos are well produced and its a great video. If you need someone to do independent testing on that device, i would be happy to help.. lol
Thanks Johnny! And you'll have to ask REALLY nicely. lol
I've cut my case so my double slot GPU heat sink and fans stick out. Looks like a super charged V8. But the motherboard wasn't gaming capable and burnt up.
Now I have a msi trident x plus.. now that is a sff power house! All OEM and silent air cooling design
I want something just like this but as a computer for just handling streaming/recording. would be awesome.
Nice video. Now what I am gonna say is not related to the subject of the video. You could rotate the DELL monitor so the logo is on the left side. It will look much better in your setup.
Does the front minis forum ms-01 audio jack require a trs or trrs connector?
Since the internals slide out easily maybe you could just 3D print a taller shell for a double height card.
Exactly, or you can just use 90 d angle riser card or just ribbon type extender...
Or they could just build a taller case.. lol
I DO want to get into 3D printing for exactly this type of thing though. A far as using a riser goes, at that point you clearly don't need the form factor so just build something you want.
Low that you post current draw, amazing. Looking at that for amateur radio use cases.
What does Bono and hus band of merry men (U.2) have to do with computa at all??
I almost wish the U.2 carrier board forced the switch to be in one position just by design. Then have a spring loaded switch so that it defaults to M.2 voltage unless the carriage is in place.
I think that’s roughly what they did in the final design
I want to see this PC with a full graphics card.
You could slot in the Gen4 x8 slot a PCIe to OCuLink adaptor card, and a OCuLink external GPU (they sell the boards for OCuLink, tho you also need another power suply :/
If you still have this MS-01, what are you doing with it? Running some VM's? or something else. I really want one of these but I really don't need one of these but I can get rid of a full size desktop computer is 6 years old and I am sure not power efficient.
I have bought an U.2 to NVME adapter by mistake, if the shipping costs weren't high I would send it to you :) Any advice how to use it, or i do i have to resell it?
With the diversity in the network connectivity embedded and unless you really need the PCIE for graphics, I'd use the PCIS to add 2 additional NVMe drives.
Nice machine. I would like to see a cheaper version that drops the sfp, and adds a forth m.2.
Im using ssds for everything moving forward
Could you just run a full-size graphics card on an adapter that connects to one of the m.2 slots?
helloo canu help me i got hp 260 g1 dm business mini pc i look videoson youtube and pc yust turn off it is been soo hot i yust turn off from elektric because every time i get power to pc its hot on dc power jack port and pc didnt turn on
I would have loved to have a machine like this with an I3, or even a pentium, to serve as a router, with the 2 10Gig SFP and 2.5G Base-T network ports
Sadly, they only are I9 versions
Yeah I also wish there were some lower end versions. Maybe down the road...
For what you're looking for, maybe something like this? ruclips.net/video/AKUTzjA1grE/видео.htmlsi=UrrHqaY8mUNKj4Y6
I need several of these.. I'll figure out why later. 😂
You should try running Thunderbolt or USB4 to PCIe and run the same GPU with Davinci... that should be interesting to compare the performance. Or using a Magma/Onestop systems PCIe to external chassis to test the same GPU with DaVinci.
can you make a video on how to lower tdp like c states and stuff basically every route you can go to lower tdp bios anything
I wonder if this would work for streaming
I've seen it in LTT. Immediately, I've started to wonder if it's possible to slap more SATA through PCI-E card and make NAS server from it. What's your take on this?
I more so had the thought to use an external HBA to connect it to a JBOD. Or you could use something like the QNAP SAS JBODs. Patrick at STH did that with an 8 bay unit. Pretty sick for an AIO home-server/NAS.
Personally, I’m a fan of running NAS independently from other services. You can use a much lower powered system and not risk data loss when tinkering with stuff.
Normally I'm all for out of the box uses but this is one of those times I'd have to ask why? For the price of this unit you could build a machine that could do the job adequately, by the time you add in the cost of an enclosure for disks why not just go with something better fit for purpose from the start?
Yeah, I don’t think this makes sense for a NAS. But it’s a possibility
I'll be able to let you know, as I'm setting up Proxmox on it with Ceph and a bunch of NVMe for OSDs.@@HardwareHaven
Question, how would this do with an external graphics card?
Yeah still prefer my N100 machine with 16GB ram and 512GB SSD that cost me $143. now that's bang/buck. Personally I don't see the point of high performance small computers, if you want performance you'll get more performance with a regular sized machine for the same money. Small performance systems will always be limited by the cooling solution. It's different at the lower end. The form factor really suits the N100, it's just SO good. I'm happy I bought one. The SFP ports are pretty rad though, quite unexpected in such a machine. with all those cores and using a M.2 to SATA adapter it would make for a sweet file server and/or proxmox box. BUT, if I wanted to build something like this I'd just buy some 2nd hand rack server dirt cheap, as you mentioned it's too big/heavy for VESA mounting. It just looks like a really odd hodge podge mix of features, more like a machine you'd use for industrial use.
How are people getting these through customs without an importer?
So maybe wait for the MS-02? I would love to see someone put it through it's paces as an AIO Proxmox server. virtualized pfsense/opnsense firewall, virtualized TruNAS with a passthrough 4 slot pcie nvme card. graphics passthrough for a Plex server. Maxed out with 96gb RAM. I want to be able to sell around 3 hardware devices in my house and replace it with this one...then, it would be worth it. If it can't be done, please let us know!
Can you do share how IOMMU is setup please :) Loved the video
Can you please make a video on how to make a NAS with Casa OS if it is possible
I can't say anything about the hardware itself because I am still waiting for my order, but If I knew about the long shipping times I would never order the MS-01!
At first there were some delays because of chinese new year hollidays, now it seems there are some problems with the power supply at the factory.
I'm not sure if to believe anything Minisforum says at this moment
Be aware, since they charge you the full amount on day one of your order and you wait MONTHS for the order to arrive.
Wolfgang has good video on c states and older cards a lot of the cheap options on eBay lack c state support
It doesn't ship until March 15th if you take their word for it. I'm trying very hard to find a compact chassis or mini pc that can fit a single slot full height pcie card. This could work for that with a riser cable and some improvised mounting, but I'd rather have a high core count ryzen with a better igpu and I don't need all the networking. That coupled with the March ship date and that this isn't the final revision of the product makes this a pass for, especially at a higher price.
I’m looking at buying this for my mini pC would It work Protable 2.5inch Mobile Hard Drive Disk 6TB Mobile Storage Drive? Please let me know ASAP.
I really want one. I'll probably wait a few years though until the price has come down a few hundred bucks and then use it as an awesome little server PC.
Yeah these will be awesome a few years down the road
4:56 bridge status:
BURNED
All these mini pc's are great but what if you want to build a NAS with them and you have multiple HDD's. Is there some kind of enclosure for them just for these cases?
There are options, but you're better off just building a NAS
@@HardwareHavenI have an old pc with a SSD and 3x HDD that I turned into media server, but it is too big. I was planing on getting a small PC but it cannot hold my HDD's. Thats why i was asking if there were some sort of enclosure just for HDD's.
I reconized that 4 port NIC. its the NIC! I returned mine.
Man if they made a little bigger to fit the A2000 or A4000(Ada version) sff versions and made the PCIE slot to be x16 instead of x8 that would've been awesome. It would've been a little worstation beast.
It support A2000, but you need to change cooler for 1 slot. There are conversion kits for $80
What is the lowest power possible CPU that can transcode (>60fps) 4k HDR with tonemapping in Jellyfin?
It is broken it displays degF for temperature?
I'm assuming it doesn't support ecc ram right?
Can you fit a 3.5 inch hdd?
I guess you could use an angled adapter/riser to put a better GPU in
I was thinking of making a larger shroud with a 3d printer to fit the 4060LP.
Honestly if they made this full width and a proper 1U short depth, it'd fly off the shelves (pardon the pun). If they made that deeper and 4LFF drives it would be the perfect homelab. 2xSPF+, Quicksync, 4LFF + 3 M.2 would be crazy in 1U
just a heads up for those interested: there's now an i5 version available barebones for $419(!). I have three on order.
Minisforum do some really interesting and unusual products.
I wish the ARM processors were as powerful. I have a 1200 Watt power supply and do not want to go bigger!
You can build your own 2u rack mount case with similar specs for basically the same price without being tied to proprietary case, fan, etc.
The DaVinci resolve disparity is likely because the free version does not support hardware codec. So, the quicksync capability was not being used in that test (but nvenc was). Would love to see a transcode speed battle between the two.
Also, your color grading is CUDA accelerated (no Intel equivalent). So nvidia wins here no doubt.
Is this reliable for ps3 and nintendo switch emulation?
Every. Fcking. Day. 140 new videos like this are uploaded to RUclips. Each one Telling how THIS mini pc is the best perfect marvelous wonderful server.
the market moves incredibly fast, but *this* one literally is a fantastic lab machine. it's like Minisforum actually listened to people, bizarre as that sounds.
and have you bougth the fking 140 mini pcs to put them as servers?
that would be a great topic for a channel, this dammmm server, ir this fking mini server
i would subscribe expecting to see those reviews
Ayy new upload :D
Note: The MS-01 does not come with memory and HD. You do have to choose the option to include it at an additional cost.
Hey that Arenet device is 20$ cheaper on Amazon.
In Cinebench 23 The Lenovo offering with AMD runs around the same score.
That basshunter thumbnail...