COMEBACK After 1 Week?? (Ford Fusion Cluster goes NUTS!)
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- So the 2012 Ford Fusion drove absolutely glitch-free for 1 WEEK since the first visit, where we diagnosed the no-crank situation, and communication issues with modules on the MS CAN.
Now, the POSSESSED INSTRUMENT CLUSTER is back with a vengeance!
During my second visit, I finally get the Crazy Cluster to act up while driving.
Can we fix this problem long-term NO PARTS REQUIRED?
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Enjoy!
Ivan
At least it's acting up for you this time. Tearing into the cluster to chase an intermittent problem would have been stupid. I wouldn't say it came back to haunt you. The original problem just came to a point where it's reproducible. I'd say you did it right.
I agree. If he would have gone and just do the solder joints would have left you wondering if it really was the connector or the cluster.
Your willingness to go back and diagnose then re-solder those weak joints was great. I believe your integrity is second to none
I wish he was near me. Ivan is great.
LOL, it's literally what people pay him for.
@Cheepchipsable you could pay a lot of people to try and do what Ivan can do and there would be lots of misses before getting it right.
most folks would want you to buy a new cluster panel or used 1 and you may get worse than you had
Great video again Ivan, hopefully they'll have more jobs for you u said?? Does a bear shite in the woods 👌
*Best Channel on RUclips*
About a month or two ago did the exact same thing for a co-workers 2003 Ford Focus, he was having the exact issue "Cluster gone wild". It has been absolutely trouble free since re-soldering the pins. Several of them had "donuts" around the pins. Thank you Ivan!
we used to call those "donuts", ringlets. In our shop we removed most of the old solder then resoldered all the joints.. They never had issues after.
I recently started using gel no-clean flux in syringes (AMTech for example). It's a world of difference. A little applied to the board, and a prepped iron tip will reflow joints instantly, it's almost magical. It upgraded my solder skills from "hack" to "novice".
BTW it's amazing how many automotive electrical problems are caused by cracked solder joints...
People blame this a lot on RoHS / lead-free solder, and that's not unfounded, but cracked solder joints have been a problem for as long as there have been mass-produced printed circuit boards (since the late 1950s). I have a computer monitor we bought new in 1987 that needed the solder joints touched up after about 5 years, and it still works today.
BTW, I don''t blame you for not redoing the solder joints the first time. The car was working perfectly so any further work would fall under "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Ivan, reflowing the pins on my Freestar cluster fixed my message board. Haven't had a problem since.
You and Eric O are the best.
I had a 1995 vintage Carrier brand gas furnace that 5 different companies and many new parts over several months could not figure out why the furnace was randomly acting up. This thing was running fine for 6 years up to this point. I would sometimes come home to a 50 degree house in the middle of winter, but then other times it would maintain temp. I videotaped the furnace and found that the gas flame would just shutdown randomly in the middle of the heating cycle. I finally took apart the little tiny circuit board enclosure that controlled just the gas valve, and sure enough, there was no solder at all in one of the circuit board holes belonging to a standard resistor, but the resistor lead was resting up against the metal surface of the PCB board hole just enough to make contact most of the time, but slight movement during the heating cycle from expansion would make it lose contact randomly and shutoff the furnace.
Nice stuff man!
Nice job on the diagnosis and re-soldering the contacts. Now you can sleep easy... Kudos
Ivan. In my 84 years, I've used a ton of Rosin-core solder. It does a quality job. For me, I couldn't see any difference between using rosin core solder and applying flux paste. If you are using "stick solder," yes, you'd need to use flux paste. The core of the solder you use, already contains the flux paste. Ahhh.....duhhhh. Loved the diag again.
Thank you. Im way behind you..only at the 61 yr mark. I never had a bad batch of rosin core solder.."keep it simple stupid" is mine, yours and ivans motto.
it works, but after you use actual flux you always will.
The one thing that drives me crazy when Ivan soldiers is the tip of his soldiering iron. For circuit board connections on boards like that Instrument cluster a small screwdriver shaped tip (Chisel Tips) will work a better than a Conical style tip in that application.
He is mobile, running light. He used that thing at least 20 times in various videos. This aint mil std 454
@@sewing1243. ABSOLUTELY! 👍👍! I find conical soldering iron tips pretty much JUST TOLERABLE when soldering anything!
Even a tiny (rounded) chisel tip is waay more usable! The flat surface of the chisel tip is the 'working' surface of the tip, that I apply the solder to & also touch on the wire/circuit board.
I'm happy for Ivan to use whatever works for him, but personally - I much prefer a chisel tip. Bigger contact patch, more heat transfer, less frustration.
Cluster harness routing stressed the pins on the board or the person who unplugged the kick panel pulled down on the harness 👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹 great video 😁
Yeah it's a common problem with Fords I've seen lots of Fords have gauges nuts
I love the amazingly high quality work with such a casual attitude. so humble and so incredible. I love your work !!!
Even with the one hour charge it’s a lot cheaper than shipping the cluster out for repairs.
Also no prolonged downtime for the customer.
You stated in the last video that those electrical gremlins would be back; and they were and you repaired it like I knew you would. GREAT VIDEO!
Electronics guy here. I think not doing the joints last time was a good idea.
Each time you touch something you have a chance of breaking it. That good joint there? You have a small chance of now making a cold.
Yep, you were guessing right, Ivan! It came back to haunt you, but it was expectable with a problem that corrected with a tap :-) That connector is tall and can apply substantial leverage on the solder joints, which were not very solid, to begin with (it's the ROHS plague).
@@JoseSilveira-newhandle forYT. Yep, ROHS bs alright! This 'lead free' solder is CRAP if you're looking for long life, reliable solder connections! Even the BEST quality LF solder joints look like half 'cold' solder joints to me!
They just can't compare or compete with the good old 60/40 tin/lead solder! We know lead is toxic, so wash your hands afterwards & don't pick your nose while using tin/lead solder ok?
But the other thing is - I've heard the FLUX involved with LF solder may be very toxic! I dunno; I've only heard this.
@@nevillegoddard4966 Yep, very true. It's not by accident that ROHS only applies to consumer electronics - medical and military equipment are exempt, to ensure reliability.
@@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT wow really? That's very interesting Jose, & says it all doesn't it?
@@nevillegoddard4966 Yep!
I'd say this vehicle had two problems. The 1st was the unplugged connector which was obvious. The second was non reproduceable the first time it was tried which made it intermittent. Finally it showed itself making it problem #2. Sounds logical to me!
Good one Ivan.
I worked for a locksmith many years ago Just like you
He was a benchman
He would try to rebuild before replace
Proof we worked on the first toyotas
The ignition cylinder was very cheap
But toyota would only sell the entire assembly (135.00)
You make me proud
Adam Wolf
I think you did the best that could be done with an intermittent situation like this, especially with the unplugged connector. Thanks!!
Great Job Ivan We Hate Comebacks But We Can Learn More Every Time
Great repair! Too bad there are so many solder joints in the vehicle. There can be a lot of bad ones, and still be a really low percentage of the total number! I'm thinking modern solder has less (or no) lead in it, making it a bit more brittle.
Good job on the diagnosis and repair as always. Sometimes when you have a decision like that, you need to get the customer involved, give them the option of fixing it now or wait and see what happens. Love your channel.
Great video Ivan, unbelievable how Ford still has this problem, I have re-soldered the clock’s connection joints on untold amounts of Fords, mostly the (European) Ford Focus.
Yea Ivan , I remember this problem on a Caravan you fixed and I had the same problem on my old 99 beater caravan , I watch them all
Hi Ivan. Great job on the fix here in this case study! FYI... It is wise to seek out and use a "Eutectic Alloy" solder on electronic circuitry. SN 60 solder is not a eutectic alloy solder and requires reflowing rather frequently! SN 63, SN62 Cardas audio quad eutectic solder and I'm sure some other audio grade solders are as well. It is critical to use a eutectic alloy solder to make a good long lasting solder joint! Look up the information on eutectic alloy solders to learn more. Reach out to me if you need to discuss further.
problem is the lead free solder originally used, his 60-40 should be fine.
Just like my 05 focus top two pins and one bottom one.
Cluster used to light up like a Christmas tree been good so far
After re soldering. Two years still going strong.
Enjoying the videos
Good job. I watch a woodworking channel that uses an old playing card with a notch cut in one side to protect the face of something that's being worked on similar to pulling the needles off the cluster.
Ivan, another amazing video but I gave realised I will never have the knowledge you have. A superb Master Tech.
Takes a lot of patience finding these glitches,great work
I worked on medical imaging systems as a field engineer, miles of wire, hundreds or thousands of connections one thing I made and added to my tool kit was a set of handles with the various style pins we used set in both ends, I lost a few days on a system someone was a bit rough with that had 7 intermittent pin sockets of different types - the sockets 'spring contact' can become bent the pin slides in but is loose in the socket due to the socket housing determining the alignment of the pin as well as the plug itself. a single or double intermittent was bad enough, that was a nightmare.
If you are using a high quality, such as Kester, rosin core solder there is no need to use additional flux. To re-solder those connector pins I would be using a 0.031" diameter solder. For soldering on the surface mount components you would want a finer solder, what I use measures at 0.020". You do want to clean your soldering iron tip after each pin that you solder. I am old school and use a Weller sponge though there are the wire wool cleaners that many people prefer.
That is awesome solder. I wish I bought all of the stock when my RadioShack was closing.
Lead-free solder is the reason this happens. Leaded solder is soft, lead-free is brittle. Adding leaded solder like you did will result in softer joints, which will resist vibration and thermal expansion/contraction.
Extra flux is necessary if you're completely de-soldering (as in replacing the connector). The flux in the solder you used is enough when you're just adding lead to existing joints. I don't think extra flux should be used with flux-core solder anyhow. Two different fluxes may not mix well, causing more problems.
I bought a 10$ microscope you plug into a tablet (with usb C adaptor) or computer. I use it to look at solder joints (such as the Honda PGM FI relay failures). Good tool to have around.
Flux helps remove oxidation like deox it in my opinion. flux core adds new solder to whatever is failing. Nice work!
Flux is highly recommended in a situation like this due to cracked joints get stubborn crusties, and need the aggressive cleaning action that good flux brings to the table. The ADDITION of new solder wasn't as important as getting the FLUX core to do it's magic. Having fixed 1000's of solder joints in machinery, and knowing that there is likely at least one stubborn, oxidized joint in a connector header, I'll spend two extra minutes to remove most of old solder, then lay down all new solder with a highly active flux, then clean up. If cleaning up is inconvenient, then making the repair as PHAD did is option B (IMHO).
The smoke is the flux burning off, from the flux core solder. Modern solder has to be lead free: the lead was put in to stop the tin growing whiskers which leads to short circuits. I think removing the lead was a bad move because most people will never come into contact with the solder. I think this is why devices such as TVs only last a few years before a tin whisker causes problems. I have counted thousands of tin whiskers at work, so a concession was raised to use tin / lead solder.
So common on them ford's done so many of them. I know you thought you had fixed it but I knew it would come back to you they are to spot. Need to look so very close. But you got there in end 🎉
IMO, the PCB itself is part of the problem...
If you look at pretty much ANY PCB design for a through-hole component (such as this connector), you'll see that the ENTIRETY of the PCB pads are bare metal for the solder to adhere to. (Generally one of copper, tinned copper, or perhaps even gold-plated copper)
On THIS PCB though, it appears that a fairly significant percentage of the through-hole PCB pad is obscured by the green solder mask!!! (Solder mask is present to ACTIVELY repel the solder from sticking thereby helping to avoid solder bridges between adjacent pins. It also serves to 'protect' the PCB traces from the elements [e.g. humidity])
If the ENTIRE PCB pad had no solder mask covering it (as it SHOULD be), then the solder would FLOW better and produce a joint that was mechanically more rigid.
NB: That solder mask can be applied EXTREMELY accurately when it needs to be. For example, I design PCBs where the solder mask is present BETWEEN the pins of an IC that are 0.5mm [0.020"] apart from its neighbor!! It starts to cost more when it gets below 0.006", but that's WAY below what I can see on this PCB connector footprint!
IMO, the person who created this PCB design needs a decent slap up the side of their head!
My 2016 F150 cluster went belly up. Radio went nuts. I could not turn it off or control the volume. The front windows would not go up and down. I pulled it hoping I could reflow the connector pins solder joints. Nope! Beyond my capabilities with the tools I had. So I pushed and pulled the connector in and out hoping there may be oxidation on the pins and sockets. Reinstalled the cluster and everything worked!! That was 4 years ago and I have not had any more issues.
The automotive industry went to lead free solder more than 20 years ago. I'll wager at the time of this build of this cluster, there were a lot of unknown issues concerning lead free solder as it was just being introduced. The lead in the solder helps it flow as it heats at a lower temperature. This is why when you first resoldered the joints, the solder didn't flow correctly. After it heated up a bit more and the 60/40 (lead to tin ratio) solder you used displaced the lead free solder, the joint wasn't cold anymore. The "crusty" joints you saw were obviously cold solder joints. The "cracking" you saw was where it separated from the through post. Lead free solder is a pain in the @#$ to use. Much higher temps are needed for lead free solder. Nice work on the diag..... you need an actual solder station and a scope.
MAKE LEADED SOLDER GREAT AGAIN
Yes, lead free solder DOES require more heat but I wouldn't go so far as to say 'much higher temps'. (217C vs 183C / 422F vs 361F).
A far bigger concern is something called 'tin whiskers' (google it!). This (tin whiskers) problem largely didn't exist with good old 60/40 lead solder and it's taken industry a long time to get on top of the issue! (The issue still exists to some degree even today!)
Also, when Ivan began to reflow the connections, we _assume_ he was using 60/40 tin lead, but it's also fair to assume that it was also 'multicore' solder (that INCLUDES a small amount of flux within the solder itself!). The combination of the lower melting point 60/40, the built in flux and the fairly high temp that Ivan uses on his TS100 iron would be a HUGE help to aid in the flow and 'wetting' of the solder thus creating a half decent solder joint.
The ONLY thing I would suggest to Ivan would be to leave the iron on each pin for an additional second (or two) AFTER the solder has melted to make sure the ENTIRETY of the pin, pad and solder puddle have reached a suitable temperature. (NB: NOT 10 seconds, just 1-2 seconds. 10 seconds would risk MELTING the plastic connector body itself on the other side of the PCB). Whenever I solder such a connector, I tend to do alternate pins to avoid excessive heat build up and then go back to do the others in a second pass.
@@MattyEngland
Leaded solder is, was and ALWAYS will be great. Unfortunately, some IDIOTS (a.k.a. politicians) spent too much time reacting to protests by the Swedish Goblin Brigade (a.k.a. Greta and her poisonous team) and came up with a bunch of BS RoHS directives without understanding the consequences of them! All of that 'poisonous' lead originally came out of the ground and, when it's disposed of, it goes back into the ground. I see no issue?
I have mixed feelings about lead based solder. I'm in my mid 40's now, and I used to help my dad in his shop all the time when I was a kid. I know for a fact I breathed in a lot of lead solder fumes. Between the solder, and melting down lead to rebuild and recase ammunition, I breathed in a lot of nasty fumes as a child. And I'm sure some of the neurological problems I'm dealing with now, can probably at least partially be traced back to all the lead and chemical exposures from my childhood. And my dad was stricken with Parkinson's disease when he was in his 60's. Overall, even though it causes some PITA problems, I still think we are better off without lead based solder, and lead based fuels.
@@jtjones4727 I wouldn't want to be breathing the fumes for any extended length of time, (mainly due to the flux rather than the lead) but for 99.99% of cases, it poses no danger.
As for leaded petrol, the world has gone completely insane since we stopped using it! I don't remember anyone in the 1980s claiming that men could have babies, or women could have penises 🤣
You need a good 10x with led light magnifying glass. I use them all the time while inspecting aircraft components. Have found verified many cracks
Ivan San, I think cracked a tooth watching you "pop" those gauge needles off! #MasterTech 😎
Hi Ivan. My favourite type of repair to watch & enjoy ⚒🛠🔧👍💥
As you said the callout was for a no start the first time you fixed that fault .There is no provision in the work order to check anything else even though you predicted it would have dry solder pins in the cluster so in actual fact it is a secondary fault which you have every right to invoice for.Cheers Ivan nice to see another great video.
Do you think the boroscope could have looked back in there when the cluster was out the first time, thanks for this repair video.
Great job on the diagnosis and fix, just another example of Ford's quality control issues and their crappy design flaws. I'm a Ford owner trust me i know.
You already knew there was a problem with the cluster. You tapped on it last time and it started working again, definitely had a problem that should’ve been addressed the first time.
Fabulous soldering skills.
I've used a kitchen fork to remove needles on gauges before..works pretty good...good video Ivan
Another great vid 👍🏻 but there's one thing missing ivan, You forgot to say NPR 🙃
You can solder pretty good for not using any flux. My hands are pretty shaky already, I struggle even using flux some days. It sucks getting old sometimes.
Flux core solder happens to have flux in it... You don't need extra!
An ages old saying: If it ain't broke don't fix it!. 1st time you didn't know it was still broken.
Well, you can't say that this wasn't expected. Charging the lower rate will go a long way with the shop as far as future jobs.
Nice job on the repair
Great job there Ivan you are the man I hate when they act up so long after you work on them but that's the way intermittents are enable drive you nuts but you always fix them so good for you
i read that also the older fords before 2010 have the same problem, and even the processor had bad solder joints.
Ivan, I have the exact same model with similar dash problem. Mine would do the key on cycle over and over and over. After a year of research I found a post that stated for 2 or 3 yrs ford ( for environmental reasons ) used unleaded solder on main connectoron instrumentcluster. I removed old solder, resoldered and have had no problems. Not sure if the no lead is true but the resolver worked
To set the needles you can use bi directional gauge test. Plug it in and should be able to set it on off or full and install them.
Weird to come form the factory like that. My conspiracy hat tells me it's from lead-free solder they must use, since I always find that the regular leaded stuff always flows so much better.
Use an exacto-knife or razor blade and pick at the surface mount component solder joints and they will give up the ghost. Especially the resistors on Fords.
Why would you do that? 😅
They make flux pens, like a marker except flux. Then you can apply flux and reflow the solder. No need to add any solder.
I learned to fix what you find then go from there. Or course, you also let the customer know about anything else that is suspicious.
Bad solder joints affects: F150's, Taurus, Crown Victoria's (I have a P71... Had cluster re-soldered) , GMC Yukon's and Chevy Tahoe's. Ford's seem to be especially susceptible to bad/ cracked solder joints on the cluster pins.
TS100 for the WIN!!! Good job! :)
My ford f350 has the same issue. I replaced the cluster with a used one. But now i maybe will fix mine.
Ivan, appreciate your integrity and honesty always learning from the best thanks for sharing.
Love when the only part needed is Lead.
I had to do the same thing on my 2012 Ram 1500.... background lights would flicker randomly , reflowing the joints solved that
Feed thus can be hard to fix if they are intermittent, but 90% of time I find it's the ringed pins for plugs.
ive never repaired the volume of cars you have or have expertise sodering repairs which is becoming a dying skill with TV's so cheap and other electronics so cheap for people who can not soder a junk yard cluster can be alternative for this repair keep up the great work ive change 6 of them and never had a problem but you need to check any part old or new
Rosin core has the flux in it or at least when worked with electronics in the USAF it did
The way that's flowing, I don't know how flux would improve anything.
Ivan I bought one of those mini o scopes from your Amazon link and can’t figure out how to use it. Can you do a quick demo on how to use it to generate a signal from a module please 🙏
I'm getting an ABS/Traction Control warning on my 09 F150. There is a company that you can send the board to for repairs, this is a common problem. I'm thinking that before I do, I will remove it and check the solder joints. It's worth a shot.
I use masking tape on cluster face and mark needles home position on the tape with a sharpie
I have to do that on 02 03 ford sd diesels all the time and don't use flux The only time i use flux if I have to clean the board from a blown or leaking cap or resistor
Guess one can truly call that a "cluster f***"😆
That first pin going to C77 needed a longer dwell time with the iron. The solder wasn’t even wetting all the way around the pad (possible cold solder joint). The reason the rest of the connections didn’t look the best is because of mixed solder chemistry (lead solder mixed with lead-free) and not adding fresh solder or flux just before moving your tip away. Yes, you added fresh solder but it only stays fresh for a moment before the flux burns off. It wasn’t fresh by the time your tip left. When drag soldering you won’t have this problem since you are always feeding fresh solder but when soldering one pin at a time you should barely kiss the joint with fresh solder then dwell to help conduct heat and get it all molten then give it more solder just as you move away to refresh it. It’s all technique.
Same as an earlier focus in the uk. U1900 and no start
Saw the thumbnail and was really concerned for the customers car til i saw the shift indicator said park lol
Thanks for the video Ivan.
Need much longer dwell on the soldering. The IMC didn't have chance to form.
Having to take off the pointers is always risky, they could break or scratch so it's best not to do it unless necessary. So without a solid diagnosis I wouldn't have taken it apart either.
Who says an engineer can't solder? 😂 Great job Ivan. I guess they just don't make solder like they used to. (EPA strikes again?)
Correct. Lead free solder.
The use of leaded solder is still legal in the US. What happened is that the EU banned it so pretty much all industry switched over to leadfree because it would have been much more difficult to have two different standards. So don't blame the EPA, blame the EU 😅
Better than factory!
Solid, solid, solid.....lol
Well done ivan :-D
I did wonder if the plug needed a spray of cleaner, just in case the connector has black marks on the terminals and make a crappy connection.
You could have hung up a small rubber hammer to the centre mirror for emergency impact use lol.
Good job Ivan. More experience gained for down the road plus car is now fixed after two separate findings.
You did suspect that there might be an issue with the cluster the first time. But it didn't act up again then. Age old question. If the issue is not reproduceable, how are you supposed to diagnose it? You have to wait for it to act up again. Anyway, it's fixed now. Nice work Ivan.
One question though. Do you ever update the software on your thinktool? If the answer is no, then why haven't you?
On the software my thought is if it works, don't touch it 😄
Thanks for stating the milage
Ivan I noticed Ford doesn't cover the board on the back, so it's exposed to dirt and moisture.
You are a surgeon with the solder iron.
I've got a 04 F150 heritage and had the overhead compass solder joints crack, the odometer joints crack and now the abs light comes on but doesn't set a code and the light goes out and comes on after you reach a certain speed and apply the brakes after initial take off
The public and most owners that have electrical issues have -0- appreciation for the Stress and the Difficulty involved. Even removing a cluster can be a disaster. You have the touch, and the knowledge....Maybe offer a "Super Service" that adds several hundred dollars to each really tricky fix, and offers extra steps, such as resoldering and removing extra components. No one wants to pay, however, in the real world, (Unless they are smart and keeping their vehicles for 300 or 400k miles). Quadry! Stay calm......Everyone can see you are doing work > the 99th percentile.
I can't wait for part 3...
Thanks Ivan!
probably not possible with this, but if you have access while unit is operating, a heat gun, cold spray combo would generally lead me to this type of issue.
I have a very similar fault on a Ford Ranger. goes away for months and then suddenly it acts up and is a no com from the IC. I guess I should take it out and reflow the connector joints.
you shoulve put a thermal cam just for kicks and see what could be seen before the tear down. how do you manage to get all the fun cases?
How can this be so entertaining. 😊