Beautiful Car! Why REFUSE to Fix It?
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2023
- You've got to see this video on why owning an older European Luxury car costs so much to repair. Even when you can buy one for just a couple grand. This beautiful 1999 Jaguar XK8 has an issue that no one wants to fix! Don't forget to check out @MrsWizardsWays
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Update on the Jag. Customer declined any and all repairs. Even if the valves were fine and we were just going to do timing chain service only, it didnt matter. They just had zero interest in fixing it.
Ya know, a Lexus LC wouldn't be sitting in the wizard's shop. it would be on the road.
How much does he want for it?
Sounds like the Wizard could buy it for a song and do an LS swap......would make for some great content :)
Not a surprising outcome. I knew it was the timing chain as soon as you put up the choice, lol! I just bought one of these (a 2000) on BaT with under 8k miles on it. Paid top dollar for that fact, and that the updated tensioners had already been done. I love the car, and if this failure ever occurs during my ownership I'll do the repairs and keep driving! 'Course I have a nice shop and the expertise to do it myself 😎
I spent years working on these. There were Tell Tail signs that the timing chain was about to go and they were most likely ignored. I know the cars aren't worth much. But if it's a nice one it is worth fixing. The nice ones really are hard to find. They are also really nice to drive.
I've done this job on an XK8 and it's not all that bad. As a Jag enthusiast I love the used market because there are plenty of cheap XJ's and XK's available to those who aren't scared of fixing them! The Wizard is spot on though, they are not cars for the mechanically illiterate.
Problem is, thats how most cars are now. If you can't fix alot of what goes wrong yourself you can't afford the car.
I only get a mechanic to do what i cannot do. Many cars are engineerd so that only the Dealership can fix them as well
I paid $23K for my Lexus GS350 F Sport with 80K miles. $60K new. Used is the way to go as long as people do the research on the car they are looking at. I can do most repairs myself so buying used doesn't scare me.
My 2001 XKR had that problem about 2012 and was fixed by a Jaguar dealer while spare parts were still regularly available. Wasnt that expensive. Have had more expensive repairs on my Volvo XC60. Car Wizard is making too much of an issue of it.
@@stevenr2463that was 11 years ago, and pre-covid. You need a reality check on modern car repair costs now. It is a big deal. Very expensive.
@@CarWizard god, I was just quoted 3k€ (with Denso parts) for a seized A/C compressor repair on my IS350C. 20 hours labor to replace the compressor, condenser and expansion valve. Toyota dealership only mentioned replacing the A/C compressor and quoted me 2k€ for that, because they charge the compressor and the clutch as separate repair items, however I was advised by others that the conderser is a must replacement. I'm very DIY capable and do most of the maintanence myself. Is the assembly and disassembly something that I could do and then just drive the car to a workshop for an A/C flush and fill (without using A/C until then of course)? Also, while you're here, anything to keep an eye out on on a 2010 IS350C? Thanks a lot for the advice.
Years ago, I was once the "Jag guy". I truly loved the cars. I did all my own work and became resourceful scrounging parts nationwide. Over time, I owned a XK-120MC, XK-140, 3.4 Mk II, 3.2 Mk VII and 2 E-Types. I developed such a stock of rare parts that Jag dealers started calling me. I had a full set of shims for valve adjustment and knew how to do it. If I had this car, it would be on the road next week.
Similar from NZ, old mechanic!.
@@howardsimpson489 The entire New Zealand Ministerial 1970s Jag fleet (government minister chaffeur cars) was converted to SBCs fairly shortly after purchase as it was the only way to keep them reliable. There's a reason they moved to Holdens Statesmans, Ford LTDs(*) and (eventually) Lexus
Ford-cored Jags were slightly better than the BL versions but only slightly. JLR exemplifies why "Made in Britain" is a toxic warning label across large parts of the world(**)
(*) For non-antipodeans, these were AUSTRALIAN manufactured and had very little to do with American models
(**) Yes, I know UK made Nissans/Toyotas/Hondas were hugely reliable and sought after. It underscores that the problem was British management, not the workers (All three makers had UK design houses and their cars were pretty good)
That seems like a lot of work for rubbish cars 🤣
@samholdsworth420 Well, I don't golf. So there's that.
Fixing the engine = value if the car. But customer now has a reliable Jag. None of those on the marketplace are reliable.
What does he replace it with? Tesla maybe.
It all makes sense now!
A friend of mine has a wife he really loves. She developed a heart condition, so they went to the doctor. Doctor tells the husband that fixing his wife's heart makes little sense, given the cost of open heart surgery compared to just getting a divorce and finding another wife. At the time he told me the story I didn't get it, but thanks to you, Car Wizard, I now do! 🙂
How can you compare a human being to a car?
Disgusting!
@@samholdsworth420haha, sarcasm mate, sarcasm. 😅
Sam must be single and an optimist. Happy days Sam.
🤑
I was joking 😭
@@samholdsworth420 Thank goodness. I shuddered at the thought that you were beyond help. Have a good day mate.
Not fair to compare a correctly repaired XK8 with one on the market that has not been updated. These cars are underrated classics.
This is a car you fix out of love, and not because it makes any financial sense to do so. They were never meant to make financial sense in the first place!
Thanks for sharing! I learned something new about this model today.
It's almost as if they were never meant to be dependable!! Seems like a British thing!!
Mona, you hit the nail on the head here. This is not a financial sense decision. 25 years ago they purchased this car for 120k when 15k cars were available. The financial sense train has long left the station. They loved it, cared for it and got great joy from it for a long time. That is where the value is. We will never know why they didn’t choose to fix it, but I bet the decision has more to do with joy than dollars.
YES thank you. Sometimes it’s just about what you feel like doing, regardless of sense. And conversely, sometimes people give up on a car that doesn’t need much to be perfect again, because it was just the excuse they needed to buy brand new car 🤷🏻
@@thomaslemon3971 Or a used one with a warrantee.
Depends on how much sentimental value you have for the car. Sounds like the owner got 100k miles out of it. Maybe it's time to sell it off as a parts car for somebody else?
If you love these, this car is still a gem. Very well cared for so it is still an enthusiast project. Weekend project car for the mechanically inclined with resources and tools to pull engines. Once fixed, it'll be a something to behold. That interior and wood was immaculate. A lot of love went into that vehicle before it broke.
I would buy it cheap, deducting the price of repairs from the buying price and fix it! Chances are you won’t have to do it again as long as you own it.
This car always had the best interior.. for it’s time that walnut wood finish was always so stunning ❤
I have a '99 XK8 that I paid $10k for 4 years ago...and then had to put $7k into all the chains and tensioners and water pump as well as a few other parts chasing a check engine light...but at least after that she ran like a dream...for about a month until the transmission blew. So now I had a $17k brick in my driveway...so I spent another $4500 on a rebuilt transmission.
So now Iown a $23000 XK8 I could probably sell for $7000. But I love her anyway and will.keep.her forever...or until I see a better one for less money and start the process again😁
A love story like that must have a happy ending! I'm a Brit, and that is a beautiful, beautiful car. Hard to believe it came out of the British car industry!
I have a similar story with my 2000 XKR. Sticker price: $92K; I bought it in 2013 for $17,500, put maybe $7K in repairs/maintenance, sold it in 2018 for $8000 “as is”. (Had issues with rear wheel bearings). But whenever I drove it, I felt like James Bond. Hard to put a price on that feeling, but in the end, I guess I did.
I an '88 XJS that's never given me any grief at 215,000 km on both the engine abd transmission .
I would not own a newer Jaguar car of any model.
I can sympathise with that experience! Hopefully nothing else $$ goes on it.
Let me start by saying how much I enjoy your videos and respect your knowledge and communication skill. If you were in my neighborhood, I would want you to be "my mechanic." That said, I want to quibble with one part of your analysis. Instead of comparing the repair cost to the car's market value, I would ask this question: If I spend $10,000 on this repair, will I have a car that is better than the $10,000 car on the market? In other words, after the repair, I have confidence in the engine, which I wouldn't have with the unknown car on the market. You are correct that I won't ever get my money back, but that is not the right question. The right question is which choice is better: A) spending $10,000 on the car I know and love, and then having a reliable engine, or B) spending $10,000 on the an unknown car on the market. Great video, by the way, as usual.
I'm sure they had a talk about it.
you are right-can't put a price on the pleasure of owning a car you really like to drive and own.
Thanks for the comment. We are aligned on the larger point, but I must say that there is a limit or a price beyond which the joy fades pretty quickly. I had an MB 380SL for 28 years. I loooooved that car and bought it 3 or 4 times over the years to keep it in tip/top shape. But last year the double whammy of needing a new transmission and major structural rust repair, brought me to the end. Twenty-Eight years was enough. I had a very good run.
@@charleslindsay3201
I've used that line of logic with many customers. I mean, if you're owned the car for years and never did more than oil, tires, and a battery and now you need a few grand in front end stuff or a trans rebuild, you're still ahead of the game.
And if you have been putting money in it for a while, are you paying for deferred maintenance or repairs? There's a difference there.
I love the XK8 models, I would LS swap it and not worry about it anymore, she would run better and sound better too. Who cares what the value is, keep it, it would be priceless to me.
Thank you for the video. Beautiful looking car - but these need to be looked after. DON"T WAIT FOR THE INEVITABLE. Timing Chain Tensioners: Any 4.0 V8 engine built before August 13th 2001 will have originally had plastic chain tensioners. Upgrade before they let go. Any XK8 / XKR convertible built before 2006 (X100) will have weak hydraulic hoses. Replacement hoses are labor intensive to install - but easy (time consuming) for DIY. I have an '02. Love it!
Can confirm the weak hydraulic hoses on my 2002. Mine has a leak somewhere and so now it's a manual convertible until I have the cash to run new hoses.
I did the same job back in 2005 on my 97 XK8! Not too difficult, did it on my drive in the summer. All new chains and tensioners, took me a day. Even if the valves are damaged he could just buy a head from the scrapyard, lots of x300 and rotten XK8s.
Yes, they used glass on the headlights, but use plastic for the timing chain guides, the water pump internals, the serpentine belt pulleys, etc
Should have made the timing chain out of headlight glass
@@CarsandCoding 😂
Ford engine.
some of that Ford engineering!!
Plastic is tougher then metal...check out a rear main seal sometimes thats worn out ull see why
I ran into a similar problem with my 2000 xk8. Luckily I found a 80,000 mile motor in a scraap yard in Maryland,I paid $1300.00 for the engine and $200.00 shipping. I replaced the plastic chain tensioners with metal ones for a 2002 and up (yes,they do interchange) which was as much as the engine itself. But my car is good to go for the next 100,000 miles (I hope)
This is probably the cheapest answer. Get a junkyard engine with low miles. Do the chains on it and then swap it.
This is what I was going to say.
Make sure you change the transmission fluid regularly - they were supposed to be sealed for life but that's never going to work! My 2002 XJ8 box went at 90k miles and it cost me £1,500 for a rebuilt exchange 5 years ago. Then there was changing it in and out to add to that too. After all that engine work I'd hate to see yet another Jag off the road through gearbox issues! Jenny, 2002 XJ8 SE, died recently after ten years daily use due to no garages locally being capable of welding anymore (rear chassis). Keep on top of that gearbox though in the non-supercharged versions, the XJR had a Mercedes autobox in that's more or less bulletproof so it's a non-issue in the XJR - I presume it's the same for the XK8/XKR
Put an Ls1 in it.
Just what I was thinking! There are engine swamp companies that have swap kits where you can install an American V8 and a 350 Turbo trans. It won't be 'original', but a definite upgrade over the crapy engine it came with from England. @@JohnnyDanger36963
I owned a 1997, paid $16k when it was 10 years old. Loved it. Did 15k miles a year, towed it to the dealer EVERY year for something. Shipped it to France when i retired cos i figured i'd not be doing many miles and had already fixed everything..... Not so. Sold it on after being screwed by the nearest 2 Jag dealers ( i am not a mechanic) . New buyer took me to court after it overheated and needed $5k repairs. Three lawyers later i gave up and paid everyone. Cost me more than i sold it for (11000 euros, they are more expensive used in Europe than in USA). The walnut dash and E-type styling hooked me. I expect the new French owner is probably regretting his purchase, he was not a mechanic either.😂
Love you guys. Mr and Mrs Wizard put a smile on my face every day. Love what you do, do what you love. And then throw Hoovie into the mix. You guys should have a cable channel. Thanks for keeping it fun
Just rotate the cams and use a feeler gauge to check clearance between the cam and the buckets. You’ll know if you have a bent valve when the gap is to large. If the valves aren’t bent it’s an easy fix. That’s a gravy job.
On your own car you could try that. On a customer car you would at least want to do a leak down test as well to compare to other bank of cylinders. Who knows how bent they may be. Or what valve clearance was before chain let go.
@@connor3288 Yuuup! It's all fun and games until you have an angry customer demanding to know why you didn't fix their car properly when you already had it apart. Customers don't want to have to come back in a month for the same issue after they already spent X thousand dollars having their car fixed. OR get a call from you telling them that their X thousand dollar bill just doubled
It's not an easy fix because the other side is going break any day, then back to the mechanic. And u have to hope u don't have the unfixable Nikosil engine. This car is a basket case, if u don't believe me, u simply need to own one or own one longer.
@@barrettwindish853 "unfixable" nikosil engine. Lots of engines use the nikosil setup. If the chains are replaced then problem aborted. People built the car, people can fix the car. It's just time, money, and effort.
For a typical owner this is an economic write off, all day, every day. A well funded enthusiast may want to roll the dice, but when the repairs run up more than what it's worth it's time to junk it.
If you have an emotional attachment to the car, love the colour or interior then fix it. Fixing is expensive but the value of the vehicle will increase and you have the peace of mind that this issue has been dealt with. Keep lovely cars on the road.
These diagnostic videos are so cool. Keep posting the issues, steps taken to repair, etc. Learning a lot.
I do really appreciate you for this video and pray you continue putting them out there. That way I can continue to have a blast with cars for ridiculously low dollars. God bless ya!
I currently own a 1999 XK8 just like this one, different color, topaz, with 82,000 miles which I've owned for 9 years. Paid $9,500 for it in 2014, my retirement present to myself (am originally from the UK). The tensioners had been done before I bought it, most expensive repair I had was a new throttle body several years ago. In addition, new shocks front and rear, new fuel pump, oxygen sensor, coolant expansion tank, all anticipated repairs/maintenance items given the age of the vehicle, still love the car to bits, we affectionately named her "Miss Money Pit". Love your channel Car Wizard, keep up the good work!!!
The Wizard doing his best Cab Calloway impression and compression scatting lol
😂😂😂
Thank you, Wizard and Mrs. Always a learning moment. Lesson learned, don't buy a high-end European-made car over 50k miles or out of warranty until you are a mechanic, have deep pockets, and time to spend at a repair shop
German here: Was this car not overseas, I would gladly pay 2-4k for this gem. I have the ability, the space and the time to fix it. In Europe, these cars fetch 3 to 4 times as much as in the USA. (With the exception of the UK, because there are tons of them, and RHD cars can hardly be sold outside the UK). Nikasil engines ca be fixed here at a reasonable price. The timing chain problems of this cars are well known. Had the owner spend 2K on a chain (and guide) job in time, he had doubled the lifetime of this beautiful jag.
I spent years working on these. There were Tell Tail signs that the timing chain was about to go and they were most likely ignored. I know the cars aren't worth much. But if it's a nice one it is worth fixing. The nice ones really are hard to find. They are also really nice to drive.
what's the sign if the timing chain about to snap?
@@myMotoring That's what I'd like to know also.
I doubt your average owner has a clue what is the sign of a timing chain about to fail.
Agreed 💯
Is the sign a ticking sound once vehicle is started until you Rev it up
It's just too beautiful to scrap. Almost brings tears to my eyes. As an XK8 owner myself, I feel for the owner potentially losing the pleasure of driving it. Interestingly, here in Australia, it would possibly be worth saving, as XK8s here fetch a lot more money. That one would probably fetch up to 3 times as much here.
british crap...
Ford crap or indian rubbish
@@MrEnglischjules
That's what turns so many Jaguars into money traps: they are too beautiful to scrap but insanely expensive to fix and even more important, to keep on fixing. Because you just know that after this expensive fix the next fix will have to be done. And then the next fix after that and so on. The dilemma this customer had was "is this car worth this expensive fix?" and he/she decided it isn't.
@@rosssmith3609 yup. which is why i drive a Tpyota Hilux.
@@rosssmith3609 yup. which is why i have Japanese.. I drive a Toyota Hilux
As soon as I got my used 2001 XK8 convertible home, I parked it until I replaced the chain tensioners. No worries after that.
I bought a beautiful 2000 XK8 convertible with 35,000 miles. I anticipated the timing chain/tensioner guide and had them upgraded for $2,000 p&l. There are a few more proactive items that will total $2,000, Well worth the style and performance.
Agreed. I love the lines of it, and after a year of looking found a pacific blue coupe with about 50K miles on it, bought it with the understanding I'd be putting a chunk into it, even though it looked practically perfect. It still had the original plastic tensioners, so had the full service done, new chains, tensioners, water pump. It was about $4K. It helps that there's a fantastic independent Jag shop local to me.
Pacific Blue is my favorite Jag color. @@briane.5656
@@briane.5656I love that color but seems rare ...the jag dealer in Tampa had one for $17K!!!!!
The early AJ26 V8 engine is famous for its failing upper timing chain tensioners. I spent $3,500 on getting all four timing chains and tensioners replaced at 50,000 miles. I also had the water pump replaced since the front of the engine was already apart. A friend decided not to do that and spent over $5,500 on having one cylinderhead rebuilt once the chain ripped. Another friend buys these with broken chains and fixes one after another.
My late cousin was an xk jag specialist and people came from all over Sydney to him. He had a full set of shims and as gar as I know did his own machining. I remember he was such a perfectionist he took it apart again because he said he could hear a tick. I couldn't but I guess that was why people came to him.
Amazing video. Your knowledge of mechanical theory is incredibly useful.
This is why I watch this channel religiously. You're so thorough and explain everything in simple terms. I wish I lived near Omega. I can't wait to see more Audi's and Jags on the channel.
what's wrong more like what isn't wrong with it?🤣
I used to fix alot of these engines, you can replace the intermediate chains by simply using a chain splitter and separating it to fit it around the cams and reattaching it, 9 times out of 10 it wouldn't cause any damage when it snapped the chain. I think in the course of 4 years jaguar made 5 different plastic tensioners but when they went to the 4.2 they finally saw sense and went back to a all metal construction.
Wonder how hard it would be to stuff a 4.2 in one of these XK8s, they're both AJ series engines yeah?
@christopherwilliams9418 the 4.2 was pretty much just a revised 4.0 with a longer stroke. I dont know if it was a problem in the US, but in the UK cars we had a lot of problems with the AJ8 due to them having Nikasil coated cylinders, the unleaded fuel we got seemed to wear the engine out prematurely. So I was a very busy 20 year old in the early 2000's
Which is why, no matter how good the Car Wizard is, a Jag guy is your best bet and when you find one he is worth his weight in gold.
BINGO! The same with BMW, many internal mechanical components made of plastic!
Same with the old SAAB 2.3 engines. The chain starts rattling and the dealer want big money to fix it. But you just cut the chain, hook the new one and turn the engine one revolution and connect the two parts of the chain. Job done. As for bent valves I fixed many with a rubber mallet without even taking them out of the head. The guides in the head rarely crack. Often the chains and belts brake when you take your foot of the gas or engine brake so the valve speed is not that high. Catastrophic damage and you will hear a lot of banging when parts hit each other.
Since watching this video a few months ago I have come to really like the design and features of this car. I understand the engine is something to either avoid, or just replace. I have investigated replacing the engine with a U.S. engine, and in fact as long as I can remember Jags from the late 50's on the engines have been an issue and conversion kits were available to replace the engine. The same is true for this car, and I may begin looking for one, maybe with a blown engine and install a more reliable engine to have a car I can enjoy. I really like the way you present these videos. They get to the point discussing the plus and minus of whatever the video is covering, and that is information somebody can really use.
Greetings from the UK! Good to hear the term “bonnet “ being used😊. Rust is what kills the XK8 over here, that’s why I bought an XK 5 years ago and it’s been very reliable. The car is in beautiful condition so i hope someone fixes it. The timing chain issues are well known so most buyers will check it’s been done.
That car is only worth it if you are able to work on it yourself. The labor would be a killer.
Most luxury cars are like that. I actually convinced a high income buddy of mine ($250k a year with very little expenses and no debt) just to lease them. New car every couple of years, maintenance is nonexistent you know what money you’re setting on fire.
Never thought I’d give someone that advice in my life.
I am also watching @justrolledin and I can see that in US a lot of people think that they are able, when in fact they are not 😂
No it wouldn't
@@Joe-hz1nwmakes sense, especially if you can put it down as a taxable expense
The timming chain kit costs 384€ here in europe. Throw another 120€ for the water pump kit and another 100€ for the thermostat, include shipping and import tax, and you will be investing nearly 1k just in parts. Even if you do the job yourself (assuming you do have the skills and tools for that), and you still wouldn't know if the engine survived.
1k + hours if not days of work to risk does seem a bit. The wise decision here will be to try and sell it for parts as the body and interior are perfect, and buy another one with that chain maintenance already done.
I was a kid in the 90s and I love this Jaguar!
I remember first seeing this car in Need for Speed high Stakes back in 1999. I loved the sound it made in game, I always wanted one of these growing up.
Now I’m 32 and having second thoughts now 😢
I have a 2000 XK8. A previous owner changed out the chain/tensioners/plastic crap. No issues at all. No rattle chain noises at cold start up etc, so I know it has been done. At 102,000 miles it would be making a lot of noise if it had not been done. Also a shop told me it had been done. So I am keeping it. Have heard engines are good for 300,000 miles? We shall see?
I have always loved the design of Jaguars since I was a wee boy. This Jaguar is ideal for a hell-cat engine and new running gear.
Will it fit?
I think with a hellcat engine it much rather needs a landing gear 😂
Lsx way cheaper and bolts up to the GM trans!!!
@@tatialo37 LSX is too expensive ($14-15k for a drop-in ready engine) and might be too big to fit in that engine bay. A stock 5.3 will make as much if not a bit more power than that 4.0, basic upgrades and tuning will get quite a bit more, and if you want a lot of power, the 4.8 and 5.3 both like boost.
@@lsswappedcessnaan LS will fit. Jaguar Specialities sells the swap kit, with mounts and harness for about $2300. Add another $1750 if you want to do a T56 (I’m assuming that cost is for pedals). So add a $1000 junkyard 5.3 and not too horrible.
I stopped as a professional mechanic, as yourself who does this for a living, and I just wanted to chime in and say I respect you and your videos. Very well explained, no bs and , especially with the vehicles you post about, 7 outta 10 I’ve had experience working on and/or owned. Keep up the good work
Broken plastic guides?
bought a xj8 1998 model in L.A in 2009, engine lamp have been switching on and off for 15 years,,its now in Poland,just had service on the engine,chain and some other parts had to be changed. runing good now, pluss its in the paint shop now.
The cheapest , simplist , forever fix for thid is what all the smart guys did with the old Jags espe ially with the old XKEs is dump a SBC in ? Drive it for years & years to come , it was a bulletproof fix for an age old problem & also increased the value & reliability of these cars tremendously ...Also easy to hop up horsepower impressively....Even though you didn't say so , you already knew that ...I'm actually a CHEVY guy but do like Jags with the reliability of a SBC under the Bonnet...You just can't beat an old (59 ) XKE with a hopped up SBC , the way it runs & handles , well worth fixing if fixed this way , ( a permanent fix ) ...Basically , you guys do amazing work ...
Prime candidate for an LS swap
yeah, why didn't he discuss that?
The misplaced fear of old XK8s is what makes them absolutely amazing bargains for those who know what to look for. All the 4.2s and updated 4.0s are super reliable. and no more complicated than a contemporary Ford V8. I've put almost 70k on my beloved, pre-owned carbon-fiber edition XK8 (at 120k now) with very little in needed repairs, aside from some relatively simple fixes that I was able to handle, often utilizing the advice of members of the Jaguar community that lives online. I think the only things I used shops for were wheel alignment and trans oil change (which I could have done, but splurged on a specialist). Regular and smart preventative maintenance assures thousands of miles of driving in a special car that is becoming ever more popular, as evidenced by the sudden rise in the number of RUclips videos and channels devoted to the XK8, the XKR and the XJs. As Jaguar drops their gas-powered models, all old Jags are likely to appreciate. I'm keeping mine forever. I'd buy another tomorrow if I could justify it to my accountant/wife.
Yeah it reminds me of the 4V Modular V8 Ford made atleast with how the timing chain is though they don't tend to fail like that
My jaw dropped when you said you put 70k on your beloved XK8, for a total of 120k. I thought you were talking dollars 😲
Problem is not much more money buys a Corvette.
If the Corvette has a six speed manual I'm all in. I don't want a sports car with an automatic. The XK8 is a different animal.@@FM4AMGV
Ha, you could probably buy about 20 XK8s for that money.@@mayday_one
I have an old jag. Just under 100,000 miles, So far I am into it about $12,000. Sure I could buy a younger one for that, but it would still have 'unknown issues'. Its worth nothing to sell, but to get a better one, would cost me nearer $20,000.
My way of thinking is, that I like the car, and for the extra $17,,000 it would cost to get a newer one, I can rebuild almost everything as long as the body and interior are OK. I am not in this to make money, but to have a car I love to drive. Spending $2000 a year to keep mine up to the mark is OK by me - and if I had that XK8 and liked it, I'd get a used engine, redo timing chains etc and pop it in.
OR here's an idea: One lousy repair link on that chain after turning the exhaust cam to time up, then you can run a leakdown test, or just start the car and if it's running nicely send the customer on their way to enjoy another 10K or so until the next chain fails or the missing link that's rattling around somewhere in the bottom of the timing cover lodges into something critical or they get T-boned by a semi or all the other variables that can happen with a car happen. Certainly better than sayng "too expensive to fix- crush it!" or replacing every failure prone part on the engine to exceed the value of the car to CYA against future failures. Customer didn't ask you to make the car good for another 100K, just to fix the current problem.
It's also worth noting that Jaguar Specialties makes a GM V8 conversion kit that handles EVERYTHING like the shifter/trans, PS pump, etc. if the customer wanted to do something like a LS1 swap, and ditch the Jag powerplant. Would not be my choice but probably cheaper in the long run.
The XK8 had timing chain tensioners that would break. They were completely made of plastic. They revised it where it had an aluminum body and a different plastic as far as the place where the chain would get across and that was supposed to fix the issue but it took them two revisions. So there was a total of three chain tensioners before they got it right.
I have a 2002 xk8 that I picked up on ebay for $5500 about 5 yrs. ago. Within 3 months the timing chains jumped track costing an additional 4 grand. It is so beautiful that I keep fixing it which drives my wife crazy. I only drive it less than 2k per year but still pay about 1k in repairs per year. I would love to see Wizard do an LS conversion and a manual trans with the kits a California company has been selling for years. The kit includes software that makes it basically "plug-n-play".
Still way cheaper than a new car. Keep fixing it.
Unfortunately those kits aren't legal in Virginia and I bet some other state. The law here says the engine in the car has to be an engine originally offered for that model car. Virginia's car regulations really, really suck.
@@JohnDoe-le8fyAnd negligible depreciation.
@@1robhook We had a similar law in Ontario Canada. It was just because of the emission testing. We had ways around it. Pays to be in the trade. Lucky for us they stopped the emission testing program a few years back so engine swaps are no longer a concern.
@@1robhookJust register out of state. Montana and north dakota loopholes.
Had a 2011 XKR,LOVED IT KNEW I SHOULD HAVE KEPT IT!!
That pin striping on the wings is not something I have seen before on the XK- looks great- beautiful car. A steal for a Jag enthusiast to fix and love.
I own a Jag w/this engine. And I own a C5 corvette too. Here is what I'd do if I had that car.
1) Buy a junkard 5.3L Chevy w/the matching 4L60e transmission.
2) Do a stock rebuild on both of them
3) Swap the engine trans and make new engine mount and custom length driveshaft
4) Figure out how to have the chevy ECU give proper signal to the Jags meter cluster.
Spend the rest of your life enjoying the Jag
A shop here in my town did exactly that with an XK8, so it can be done.
The hardest part there is probably the custom driveshaft. The ECU thing can probably be done with a standalone ECU, though they can have a bit of a learning curve to set them up, or so I hear. I want to get a 70s Rolls and put a 5.3 and either a built 4L60E or 4L80E in it, for British luxury style and gen 3 truck LS reliability. And maybe turbocharge it. Because a european luxury barge that makes funny whistling noises just sounds hilarious.
Only problem there is keeping the restless spirits of Joseph Lucas and his electronics company from burning it down like it's an EV.
@@lsswappedcessna MO if your not drag racing a built 4L60E is good enough.
I favor Monster trans out of Fla.
jaguarspecialties sells a kit to do this
Some people would look at 10k in repair versus 100k for a new one and say fix it
I absolutely love my 2005 XK-8 Convertible. I have spent money on it that perhaps others would not, but that's me. I love its purr, its growl, and its ride. I do perform much of repairs myself, and parts definitely are not cheap. Many drivers near me believe if an engine is not ear splitting loud, it has little horsepower. However the XK-8s growl is music to my ears and offers plenty of horsepower without a turbo.
Very well said! Far too many folk seem to love a little screamy motor, but give me a large torquey block anyday!
Love my 98 jag no problem it do 145 in a heart beat race a hell cat he couldnt shake me
I owed a 99 red xk8 convertible with 36,000 miles.
It was a beautiful nightmare. 5 fuse boxes. The top fluid pump quit. Then the fluid lines burst inside the car. The engine would quit out of the blue.
It’s a car for the wealthy with their own mechanic on speed dial.
At the dealer, they will find a reason to charge a minimum of $2,000.
But it is a beautiful car to drive and look at.
This is the time to talk about the difference between retail repair costs, and trade repair costs. At retail rates, the car is not economically repairable. But at trade prices, it certainly is. The vast likelihood is that the valves are fine, and it's just a chain replacement job.
I just bought a 2003 Mercedes W211 E320 for $9,500 AUD with 133,000 Kays on the clock. Absolutely pristine & that was a 130K car when new!
I have a 2013 Jag XKR and I immediately had a hunch it was going to be timing chain related. Jag V8's are notorious for timing chain issues, and they continued to be up to around 2012 when they finally somewhat rectified this issue.
Chances are pretty high, with just the exhaust chain broken, only one or two valves are slightly damaged. There would be far more visible damage if there had been a collision in the cylinders and visible to the bore scope. A slipped or badly stretched timing chain would have them opening and closing in collision. A broken one means they stop moving at all. The owner may get lucky here.
@@gregedmand9939 - "The owner may get lucky here." I hope so. Last thing anyone wants to hear is that a timing chain ruined their whole engine.
Just drop in a 5.0 coyote engine
not really, 03-09 used the toyota level reliable 4.2 AJV8 which was not known for any issues outside of regular maintenance, other than maybe water pump blades which were a cheap fix.
@h7pubg I agree the 4.2 Jag V8 has a good reputation here in the UK, my l322 with 220k miles is testament to that.
That interior is in fantastic condition for the age. Seems odd a car that has been cared for would be left like this, it's certainly repairable. Then again this is a job I'd do myself, when considering labor cost it's a very different proposition.
Still, hopefully someone picks it up who can do this work in their own time.
Sorry you are not in New England. Your channel just popped up. I’ll be back. Beat in the New Year to you, your family, crew and customers!
I love jags as they are from Coventry my city my uncle was a design engineer there my cousin is now my family were not the richest so my uncle would always nip into my grans house with the latest jag he was working on and he would drive me round the block in it and one day he pulled up in the xj220 the highlight off them all
Thank you! I get frustrated by some other videos calling the earlier XK8/XKR reliable or good "daily driver". I had my 2001 XKR for 13 years. These insanely beautiful cars are plagued with endless issues, they are cheap because they are too expensive to run, and they have even more problems caused by sitting. Want an old Jag? I also had a 1993 XJ6 VDP (XJ40). The old jag 6 cylinder was bulletproof as well as the rest of the XJ40 design. ALL JAG 8 CYLINDERS BEFORE 2003 SHOULD HAVE ALL BEEN RECALLED.
Had a xk8, lovely car inside an out absolute money pit. also caught fire a little!
I asked my "English car" mechanic about these Jags, and he started listing ALL the issues it has...
until I just thanked him and walked away.
Wish I'd spoken to him first 🙂@@oldrrocr
I lost money on mine, too, but I loved it anyway. Even knowing I would probably do it again!
My 2001 XK8 coupe, same problem. I was going to do the chains, pump, thermostat housing (already have all the parts) until it (boom) stopped running. I expect to pull the head on the affected side, new valves and hopefully no piston/rod damage. So to rule in/out damage, I will replace the broken chain/tensioner side, then do a compression check. If by some miracle it has normal compression, I will complete the complete timing chain job. If not, then pull that head for further diagnosis.
one of the first timing chain jobs i ever did was an xk8. The AJs plastic cooling system is junk and overheating drops valve seats which like timing chains can be too much $ for some custers. I love the old jags and rovers and hate watching them go to the junk yard.
There’s plenty of engines available in the uk, unless the engine is after a certain build date in 2001 then the chains need doing. Worth doing, lovely cars.
Car Wizard, you are very lucky to have such clientele. Fixed a minor hood latch yesterday, and today received a VERY RUDE call stating transmission will not shift & engine smokes. I stated I did not even touch those areas and the customer went crazy. You had my car and did not check these areas for even an up-sale. Love my smart phone...BLOCK..This economy is truly bringing out the CRAZY
I don't think it's the economy doing that.
Used to work on a friends vehicles. Then he got the notion that "warranty" meant whatever I worked on wasn't going to break again. Had to explain to the guy I couldn't work on his stuff anymore. I could fix anything he was willing to spend the money on but nobody on earth could "fix" a machine so that he couldn't break it again.
Great, information, thanks your awesome, Mr. Wizard 🙂
Very interesting piece . Well explained
This is a common sad story. I always loved these cars, and about 4 years ago I was looking at buying one here in the UK. At that time, good ones were going up in price, seemed like a good investment, they are beautiful cars, certainly to look at. However, I have just looked on Autotrader, and I can pick up a 2001 with 95K miles on it, says it's in great condition, for £3600. Truth is, people are scared stiff of buying one of these, and for good reason. As an aside, I am an amateur car restorer and put into the right hands, that car can be fixed for less than $10K. That being said, which scenario do you prefer: go out tomorrow like many will, and get stitched up with a brand new EV or hybrid that is indistinguishable by make and has as much individuality as a tube of toothpaste, drive it out of the showroom and instantly lose at least £10K in value before you have taken it anywhere, or spend what is more likely to be around £5K max. here in the UK and get an individual and beautiful car to drive round in?
I did exactly the same. Picked up a car with a lot of 'issues' from an owner who was scared by it all, and set about fixing them one by one. Getting there. I have bought new jaguars and I lost more on depreciation every year than I spend on keeping this on one the road.
The moment I read the title and you listed the things that could be wrong, there was only one thing it could possibly be in my mind. You don't stop repairs over something easily repairable.
Thank you for the information
This is one of those cases that the repair might be the same as the value of the car but what could you buy for that price? You could get another car in the same price range or less and end up costing more at the end fixing problems with it. Of course its always a great excuse to soend more on something newer!
I've dealt with this exact problem several times on different cars. What I would do at this point is simply unbolt the exhaust rockers or CAM to keep the exhaust valves closed on that side, and do a quick leakdown test.
In ~20 minutes you'd know if replacing the chains is all that is needed or if the head needs to be pulled. IMO there is about an 85% chance there are a few bent valves and the head needs to be pulled, but it isn't guaranteed. It might be that just installing new chains is required.
Even if the head needs to be pulled though, in my experience 95% of the time, the only combustion chamber damage is a few bent exhaust valves. These aren't too expensive to fix.
Rarely when you check the cylinder deck height, the rods are bent too and it becomes an absolutely major job. I've only seen this once out of over a dozen broken or skipped chains with interference engines.
I would at least have done the leak down check to confirm if there are bent valves or not.
I agree, totally.
Great video! The timimg layout on this 4.0 V8 at 8:40 gives me a similar feeling to the 4.6 DOHC ford modular engine somehow. I know the firing order and alternator position are different on these engines. I wish this car had the 4.6 just like lincoln LS.
I guessed timing chain (with sadness in my heart). Thank God, I have a non-interference engine. But I also had my timing chain replaced at the service interval, which I guess this owner should’ve done on his vehicle. It might of been expensive, but it would’ve saved this beautiful car. My car is no exotic import, just a 2003 NB MX-5 which I’ve owned since new, but I love it, and take care of it.
Used to be able to get an x type for £500 pre covid in the uk. They were relatively ok in a manual with the ford 2.0 or 2.2d diesel. Alot of car for the money.
But if you fix it and use the MLS head gaskets, metal timing chain guides and tensioners, and upgrade the TPS (which, btw, can now be replaced separately from the entire throttle body) the engine would be more reliable than it ever was. There would be piddly things now and then but the engine isn't going to fail again.
are MLS head gaskets even an issue as long as you don’t run the car hot for long?
True, you could buy another Jag for the cost of repair but then have possibility the same issue. BUT, if you repair the broken one correctly you KNOW it’s GOOD
Amazing commentary..Thank You….
Poeple think depreciation works both ways... in terms of purchasing cost and maintenance... nope... only the purchase cost goes down...the maintenance cost will be the same for that car for all it s life span... if not higher with time passing and parts and know-how fading away !
I always loved the coupe version, kinda crazy that Jag made less coupes than rag tops ! Very beautiful in coupe form.
I bought an 02 XK8 ragtop a month ago with the same problem for $500. I bought a timing chain and tensioner set and gaskets for $1200. Tore it down and replaced the chains, sprokets, tensioner and gaskets. After reassembly it started right up and runs perfectly. I got lucky because there was no piston or valve damage. So, I got a nice csr on the cheap. It's in beautiful shape and it is wonderful to drive.
This is the story for old MGBs. While they have gone up a bit in price, it used to be that you bought them for around $8k....but in $8k as you owned them...sold them for $8k. You put in the $8k as you just loved them. When I owned mine it was more like I adopted it rather than owned it. Rather then just sell it, I ended up giving it to a very knowledgeable car friend who I knew would take care of it. I now own an 2011 XK convertible Jag.
That colour roof and paint just awesome - dont think we had this combo in the UK - great job presenting Mrs Wizzard! :-)
Had a Jag shop for a while and worked with a major parts distributor on a kit as a solution to this problem. Result was a bunch of bent valves (interference design) but the source of the problem was using plastic/composite bodies on the timing chain tensioners. The tensioners would basically start cracking and crumbling over time and once far enough the valve timing was history. The REAL fix wasn't in until the later engine variant arrived in the sedans which consisted of retrofitting those later timing chain tensioners with metal bodies and a ratcheting mechanism to prevent the plunger from receding once oil pressure was removed.
When you added the bad noises I immediately leaned towards a chain issue lol. Stopped running suddenly, barely starts, barely runs, sounds awful when it does, shooting flames out the intake - that sounds like big physical damage lol.
Mrs Lizard does a good job on showing off the interior. I almost felt like I was at an auction and was ready to bid. :)
I love your impression of the noises it made when attempting to crank.
I'm insane enough, to be willing to attempt that job if I'd gotten that car for dirt cheap.
This guy isn't a real mechanic
@@xL0stKIlah But you are?
If he isn't a real mechanic how come he has so many return customers?
@@darkiee69 I'm not but people like this guy make me want to be. A real mechanic doesn't pick and choose jobs. This guy is Hollywood
@@xL0stKIlah if the customer wants to pay for it he said he would do it
@@xL0stKIlah He can afford to pick and choose, why would he waste time on this one if the customer doesn't want him to? And why would he put time on the books rebuilding this engine, even if the customer want it, when he's booked in to next year with other cars? They're only three people working there and he needs the space and his mechanics for other cars with problems that are easier/ faster to fix. A real mechanic knows his worth and say no to some jobs and refer the customer to another shop that will do the job, like CarNinja.
An article in Hemmings Motor News November issue covers these Jags, including which ones got the leapers. Also the many propblems to look out for (5 speed ZF transmissions, failing nicasil coated aluminum bores, fender corrosion pockets, etc.).
nicasil isn’t an issue anymore with modern fuel, any still around will be fine.
Grandfather had one my whole life till he died when I was 16ish. The family argued over who would be dumb enough to keep it, but someone "had to" apparently. He didn't care about the cost too much (He once threatened to put a 350sbc in and be done forever, didn't ask how he planned to do that), but he loved his Jag and kept it very nice. It has cost over double what its worth to keep running by my uncle. The only other one I ever saw was LONG abandoned in my barracks parking lot when I arrived at my first duty station with no windows, suspension, full of trash, the classic. Nobody knew the story, and everybody knew it wasn't worth even stealing to scrap. Just perfect drunken vandalism.
Reminds me of the infamous Porsche IMS bearing. Porsche owners will spend $3000 to $5000 replacing them with an aftermarket bearing before the OEM bearing fails. But they love their Porsches.
Nice clean engine internally for the mileage. I think the key here is to get the results from a cylinder leakage test which should be easy enough if you rotate the engine to position each cylinder and then manually turn the exhaust cam to shut the valves. _If_ that's OK then the job is a lot easier, assuming there is no debris circulating the system. It might be an ideal way for someone who can do the work themselves to obtain a very cheap luxury car.
That's what I was thinking. It wouldn't take much labor to see if the valves were seating well.
@@Hedonistic0Frog But there was no compression on all four cylinders n that side. Odds are that at least ONE of those cylinders had the exhaust cam in the position where both intake and exhaust were closed. But with no compression on all of them, that cylinder must have bent exhaust valves. So It's a head off situation.
@@autophyte that's still just a guess. Rotate the cam and you can be sure without much labor. Don't just throw parts and tens of hours of labor at it.
As soon as you started describing the owners description I knew it would be timing related. I own a Jag and yes I agree they have low value. Mine is a 95 VDP (X300) and absolutely beautiful! When I bought it (well, very regular customer handed me an envelope which when I opened it told me I now own a JAG) I paid what was typical for that model with 105K on it, $500
It needs a cam cover, none to be found, they all fail in the same place.
I bought my '97 X300 used in 2000 and kept it 13 years until I literally got tired of it. Aside from usual maintenance only had to replace the coils and the chain tensioner. Best car I've ever owned.
This body shape platform was also used by Aston Martin. They each had their own nose and tale panels and trim fit outs. Both marques were nearly bankrupt and this model saved both brands.
Good old british engineering, and i live in the UK
Having ran two XJ's the one job that is a must are new timing chains,tensioners
waterpump before this happens.
At over 100k miles they were pushing their luck and sadly will have a hefty repair bill.
Fingers crossed that the valves are not bent.
I hope you can rescue this one David.
If it is an interference engine then the valves must be bent as they have cranked it
It depends on the engine type. My XJ6 from 1996 has done 386,000 miles and runs well. It has the very simple 4 litre straight 6.
It is an interference engine but the valves maybe OK. It maybe fine after replacing the chains and pensioners. I expect a Jag enthusiast could buy this car very cheap and fix it themselves very cheap too. It looks like a fine example.
@@wayland7150 Mr Wizard said it was an interference engine, that was part of the reason he won't fix it, that old Jag engine was a great one but being a straight six it has the one timing chain I would guess. The problems with stretched timing chains relates to their length and "V" engines have long twin timing chains which even when they have worn a small amount compared to compared to straight six and pushrod engines need replacing to me it is such a common problem I wonder why manufacturers bother building engines like this, especially as they are just absolute dogs to work on.
@@wayland7150 unlikely though, remember 16 valves on that side alone, back in the 70s and 80s a luxury car would have look like this one with the beautiful interior and exterior but would have bullet proof mechanicals that is not the case now.
Another great, informative video! Please keep us informed what the owner's decision is. Maybe they have deep pockets and will say "go for it"!!
A friend of mine won 1.6M in the lottery, 1.2M after taxes. Like a fool, he started spending it all on cars and other stuff. He bought 3 Corvettes, a Jag and some others. I told him to sell the Jag ASAP. Huge money pit.
I recently owned a 2003 T-Bird which has the Jag 3.9L V8. I purchased from an older person who had it listed on consignment with 8K miles. I was well maintained, but was undriven for years and need re-commissioning. That was a $4K expense. Ran very well, and I gave it all the care and respect it deserved. I sold it to a mechanically literate driver who loves it and cares for it as should be. But, here again .... Things go wrong you've got to be in a position of knowledge and with the finances to own a boutique car. I replaced it with a new Toyota GR 86 which is a great car for true sports car lovers.
Interesting conundrum but the car is in fabulous shape. I'd drop the money on it and then know that the engine is solid for a few years- better that than buy another with the same issue lurking. I'd definitely compression check the engine and see if there is a leak on the cylinders- if not then great and it's just a timing chain job. Too good to throw away for sure. Worse case scenario, drop an old small block in there as it would still look sharp and run. I rebuilt the top end of my XJ40 and it was just time- didn't actually cost that much in parts.
Ive had 5 Jaguars. 2 XKR 2009-4.2 and an XKR175 5.0 modified to 620HP
2x XFV8 4.2 XFR 5.0 all ran perfectly for over 10- 15 years up to 170,000 KM No timing chain tensioners or any serious issues.
Only oil, brakes, water pump, a couple hoses..usual stuff. Maintenance is key especially oil changes every 6-8 k. I have found the cars with issues are horrendous in owners maintenance. Note. All my cars were supercharged and had modifications to the pulleys and all were tune. The fact that the sell used cheap is to my advantage….amazing automobiles! I believe I’ve owned enough to have a valid opinion.