Another thing I want to point out is, everybody seems to be relying on Wit in one way or another: I am but a man, Dalinar, so much as I wish it were not true at times. I am no Radiant. And while I am your friend, please understand that our goals do not completely align. You must not trust yourself with me. If I have to watch this world crumble and burn to get what I want, I will do so. With tears, yes, but I would let it happen. Woods of Wit
Ohh yes, Wit was so sketchy in the Way of Kings (and as Vasher says an A-hole). He convinced me that he at least has Kaladin's best interest at heart in RoW.
@@MeMySkirtandI I believe in Kaladin's case yes, he is doing what is best for Kaladin. The question is though, is what is best for Kaladin what is best for Roshar? That is the way I am looking at it. Likely in the long term yes, but the short term consequences could end up be drastic.
Why are we trusting HONOR'S prediction anyway? If there's one thing we know he's bad at it's predicting the future. (Cultivation can do it better and SHE isn't freaking out over the knights being reformed (but she also had other plans))
Sigzil thinks he sees Kaladin in Sunlit man, its possible that Kaladin becomes invested enough either by the bond with the wind or the shard of honnor to allow this to be plausible. This also sets up a chance that Syl could be the one who dies and thats whats bonds Kal to the winds
What Sigzil thinks he saw in the rain has bothered me for so long. I can't help but thinking that Syl dying and Kaladin leveling up is the 'expected' ending that Sanderson is going to subvert.
Sanderson also hinted in chapter 4 that someone is going to die. I first thought it was between Kaladin and Witt, but it is likely a 3rd party who was in the room. The only other one was Syl. Going to Ishar will be the mistake that kills Syl via Ishars experimentation on bringing them to the physical realm in a body. Kaladin is going to freak out going dark like he did in book 4 which is foreshadowed to happen from his memory from book 4.
I was always got the impression in Sunlit Man that he thinks he sees Kaladin and has a "you can't be here, you're supposed to be dead" moment. But on the subject of Sunlit Man, something happened to all Windrunners that "wasn't really his fault" and these chapters seem to be heavily implying that the Wind (the spren of the Wind that is) does not make it to the end.
My first thought about "The Wind told me... that it was the change in Odium’s vessel that restored her voice" is that the Wind IS Ba-Ado-Mishram. I'm catching up to all of the chapter excerpts right now, so we'll see what we see in the next installment.
@@MeMySkirtandI So now that I'm caught up.... still maybe? The Vessel changes, the wind starts talking to Kaladin, Mishram starts talking to (raving at) Shallan. Even though they are different, I could see it being moments of lucidity, or EVEN..... Multiple Personality Disorder. Shallan does a great little "we started this together, we're the 2 first Radiants" speech - what if they are the world's first 2 therapists.
A few things I think can come from this, bonding the wind, yes possible. Kaladin himself was told by Wit to learn to play and that the tune he taught him is the one humans followed to Roshar, now I keep seeing references on book 3 now, but I have been paying attention to Kaladin and him mention Damnation in each book and so far he has talked about himself in damnation. Any other author, a curse, this author... mm... a lie, a delicious pattern. So what if the wind disappears to lead Kaladin back to Roshar?
Certainly Kaladin's insistence that he's in Damnation since book 1, has me very worried that he's on the highway to--that place. I would certainly like it if the wind saved Kaladin from there if that's where he ends up.
@@MeMySkirtandI With Brandon writing, I could never picture this to happen without a purpose, and the place is mantioned so much that I cannot picture at least a few people going on that field trip to give us a glimpse, with a bit of a Novella to cover there escape and show up at a climactic point in the final arc of stormlight. Maybe starts with Kaladin being chased all over Braize only to sit down and give the fused a therapy session😅
The death of Shards is a slow and drawn out process (cue Leras/Preservation). So yeah, Honor might have been dead (in that Tanavast is gone but the shard still holds on).
@@MeMySkirtandI pretty much. Like in secret history Leras keeps repeating to Kelsier that he is already dead and that Kelsier doesn't get it. Whatever created the visions was mostly the Honor and bits of tanavast that was left stuck on to the shard. I guess tanavast might have been a bit more alive than Leras in secret history, but Leras (from my reading of MB:SH) suggests that he was dead for a long time, potentially even before Rashek ascended. I would say that Tanavast was dead (or in the process of death) during the false desolation/recreance. This is further evidenced by the fact that Tanavast was ranting and raving at that time, kinda similar to how Leras keeps talking about "the plan" and how he forgot the plan, suggesting that Rashek was perfect for the job etc. So at some point during that death process he creates visions. And I do think that not all of the visions are things he witnessed but rather simulations (or emulations?) of things he saw, including the future as seen in the vision where Roshar is destroyed and turned to dust (even though that was a taboo). It's very much possible that stuff like the Recreance at "Feverstone Keep" might not have even happened at the time or at least not in the exact way it was shown. Another interesting thing about the visions is that we actually never see the main event of Aharetiam, i.e., the heralds dropping that blades, or the events as it happened in the prelude. Now it might simply be because there isn't a non Herald POV there that can be used for Dalinar to witness the event. But given that they are just simulations why not just make up something for Dalinar to view the exact event, like for example the Shin person who found the blades? Can Honor not show it because he was busy with something, i.e, beginning to die? Or is there some other reason. It is an important event, on the same level as the Recreance/Feverstone Keep seems wild that we never witness the exact thing. It also happens to be the last vision that Gavilar is in during the prologue. Now for the insane conspiracy theory. What if some of the visions aren't from Honor at all, but a pretender like stormfaker or ishar?
Re: Maya's words, they strike me as saying that the Recreance was effectively CAUSED by the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram. Kelek already believes that her capture has very baleful effects on Roshar, and Maya may have known that capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram was the 'first step', as it were, to the destruction of Roshar, and she didn't want to take the next step.
Totally agree that that is her perception! It makes total sense for Radiants to fear their own power if their leaders can yeet an Unmade out of existence (or so it seemed).
@@MeMySkirtandI I think we're missing something more. Judging by the Sibling's and Navani's interactions in Part I of RoW, it might be that they realized that they (spren) could be enslaved. Maybe they thought of some way that a spren could be FORCED to bond, which is why the Sibling doesn't like it. And this COULD lead to the destruction of Roshar, as the entire reason the Nahel bond exists is to limit Surgebinding so that what happened to Ashyn doesn't happen to Roshar. So: 1) Capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram showed that capturing Unmade was possible. 2) From 1), lesser powerful spren (such as Radiant spren) could also be captured. 3) It might be possible for a Bondsmith to create a forced Nahel bond between a captured Radiant spren and a human (one that would not be subject to the spren's oversight/control). 4) Unrestrained Surgebinding can lead to the destruction of Roshar. 5) Honor was no longer in a state to enforce limits on Surgebinding through Stormlight. 6) Only option: Renounce the bond. That seems like the Orders' train of thought.
I'm doing a reread like most people to catch up on things and just happened to be on chapter 80 The Dog and the Dragon when the latest chapters for W and T were released, and no spoilers of course but there is a paragraph where Kaldin thinks this about the wind- 'Ever since he could remember-since childhood-he had loved the wind. The feel of it on his skin meant he was free. Meant he was alive. It brought new scents, clean and fresh. The wind had always been there, his friend, his companion, his ally. Until one day it had come to life and started talking to him.' Haven't seen anyone mention this yet but it's clear that the wind did talk to him, right?
That passage seems totally applicable to this situation. I mentioned it in my reaction to chapters 1&2, where I assumed that that was Sylphrena. But we know what happens when one assumes...
The fact that Kal is not coming back to Dalanar is a bad sign..not to mention Dalanars chapter with Odium in oathbringer is titled "Always with you"...
I think the whole wind thing is simply Brandos way of calling Kaladin to a more fundamental pure non destructive magic. I expect Dalinar to lose his contest. Stormfather will become evil hence the new storm. The story has constantly been flirting with the idea of unchecked power and the fallibility of man. Kal is the only one who has shown the ability to put down the sword. Wind is the archetype of change. Kal will have to show the world a new way. The whole ba ado mishram plot will reveal the lies of the oath pact and knights radiant. There will probably be a schism among the radiants. In Sunlit man Sigzil talks about his failure of leadership, shredding the soul of a dear friend, and questioning the idea of the honorable soldier. I expect a couple major character deaths. I don't think Kaladin or Syl can ascend to some type of new power or godhood because you have to wipe the slate clean for the next series. They either have to die in some self righteous sacrifice or give up their power.
@@MeMySkirtandI the prison the unmade I am theorizing might be maintained by the oath pact however the amount of investiure causes a build up that has to be vented into the physical realm causing the storms
So my theory is that the wind will be reborn when she merges with Sill (I am spaceing on how to spell her name.) Yet Sill will remain so she has winds power but none of her memories.
Another thing I want to point out is, everybody seems to be relying on Wit in one way or another:
I am but a man, Dalinar, so much as I wish it were not true at times. I am no Radiant. And while I am your friend, please understand that our goals do not completely align. You must not trust yourself with me. If I have to watch this world crumble and burn to get what I want, I will do so. With tears, yes, but I would let it happen.
Woods of Wit
Ohh yes, Wit was so sketchy in the Way of Kings (and as Vasher says an A-hole). He convinced me that he at least has Kaladin's best interest at heart in RoW.
@@MeMySkirtandI I believe in Kaladin's case yes, he is doing what is best for Kaladin.
The question is though, is what is best for Kaladin what is best for Roshar?
That is the way I am looking at it.
Likely in the long term yes, but the short term consequences could end up be drastic.
good thing we get 5 more books of Kaladin then to save Roshar!
Why are we trusting HONOR'S prediction anyway? If there's one thing we know he's bad at it's predicting the future. (Cultivation can do it better and SHE isn't freaking out over the knights being reformed (but she also had other plans))
Maybe Cultivation is trying to sidestep fate and of course is falling right into it.
Sigzil thinks he sees Kaladin in Sunlit man, its possible that Kaladin becomes invested enough either by the bond with the wind or the shard of honnor to allow this to be plausible.
This also sets up a chance that Syl could be the one who dies and thats whats bonds Kal to the winds
What Sigzil thinks he saw in the rain has bothered me for so long. I can't help but thinking that Syl dying and Kaladin leveling up is the 'expected' ending that Sanderson is going to subvert.
Sanderson also hinted in chapter 4 that someone is going to die. I first thought it was between Kaladin and Witt, but it is likely a 3rd party who was in the room. The only other one was Syl. Going to Ishar will be the mistake that kills Syl via Ishars experimentation on bringing them to the physical realm in a body. Kaladin is going to freak out going dark like he did in book 4 which is foreshadowed to happen from his memory from book 4.
this is exactly my thoughts to
I was always got the impression in Sunlit Man that he thinks he sees Kaladin and has a "you can't be here, you're supposed to be dead" moment. But on the subject of Sunlit Man, something happened to all Windrunners that "wasn't really his fault" and these chapters seem to be heavily implying that the Wind (the spren of the Wind that is) does not make it to the end.
My first thought about "The Wind told me... that it was the change in Odium’s vessel that restored her voice" is that the Wind IS Ba-Ado-Mishram. I'm catching up to all of the chapter excerpts right now, so we'll see what we see in the next installment.
I think that twist would be mind blowing in the best sense! But I have absolutely no idea how that would work.
@@MeMySkirtandI So now that I'm caught up.... still maybe? The Vessel changes, the wind starts talking to Kaladin, Mishram starts talking to (raving at) Shallan. Even though they are different, I could see it being moments of lucidity, or EVEN..... Multiple Personality Disorder. Shallan does a great little "we started this together, we're the 2 first Radiants" speech - what if they are the world's first 2 therapists.
A few things I think can come from this, bonding the wind, yes possible.
Kaladin himself was told by Wit to learn to play and that the tune he taught him is the one humans followed to Roshar, now I keep seeing references on book 3 now, but I have been paying attention to Kaladin and him mention Damnation in each book and so far he has talked about himself in damnation.
Any other author, a curse, this author... mm... a lie, a delicious pattern.
So what if the wind disappears to lead Kaladin back to Roshar?
Certainly Kaladin's insistence that he's in Damnation since book 1, has me very worried that he's on the highway to--that place. I would certainly like it if the wind saved Kaladin from there if that's where he ends up.
@@MeMySkirtandI With Brandon writing, I could never picture this to happen without a purpose, and the place is mantioned so much that I cannot picture at least a few people going on that field trip to give us a glimpse, with a bit of a Novella to cover there escape and show up at a climactic point in the final arc of stormlight.
Maybe starts with Kaladin being chased all over Braize only to sit down and give the fused a therapy session😅
The death of Shards is a slow and drawn out process (cue Leras/Preservation). So yeah, Honor might have been dead (in that Tanavast is gone but the shard still holds on).
It sounds like you're saying he was mostly dead? fair point.
@@MeMySkirtandI pretty much. Like in secret history Leras keeps repeating to Kelsier that he is already dead and that Kelsier doesn't get it. Whatever created the visions was mostly the Honor and bits of tanavast that was left stuck on to the shard.
I guess tanavast might have been a bit more alive than Leras in secret history, but Leras (from my reading of MB:SH) suggests that he was dead for a long time, potentially even before Rashek ascended. I would say that Tanavast was dead (or in the process of death) during the false desolation/recreance. This is further evidenced by the fact that Tanavast was ranting and raving at that time, kinda similar to how Leras keeps talking about "the plan" and how he forgot the plan, suggesting that Rashek was perfect for the job etc.
So at some point during that death process he creates visions. And I do think that not all of the visions are things he witnessed but rather simulations (or emulations?) of things he saw, including the future as seen in the vision where Roshar is destroyed and turned to dust (even though that was a taboo). It's very much possible that stuff like the Recreance at "Feverstone Keep" might not have even happened at the time or at least not in the exact way it was shown.
Another interesting thing about the visions is that we actually never see the main event of Aharetiam, i.e., the heralds dropping that blades, or the events as it happened in the prelude. Now it might simply be because there isn't a non Herald POV there that can be used for Dalinar to witness the event. But given that they are just simulations why not just make up something for Dalinar to view the exact event, like for example the Shin person who found the blades? Can Honor not show it because he was busy with something, i.e, beginning to die? Or is there some other reason. It is an important event, on the same level as the Recreance/Feverstone Keep seems wild that we never witness the exact thing. It also happens to be the last vision that Gavilar is in during the prologue.
Now for the insane conspiracy theory. What if some of the visions aren't from Honor at all, but a pretender like stormfaker or ishar?
Re: Maya's words, they strike me as saying that the Recreance was effectively CAUSED by the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram. Kelek already believes that her capture has very baleful effects on Roshar, and Maya may have known that capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram was the 'first step', as it were, to the destruction of Roshar, and she didn't want to take the next step.
Totally agree that that is her perception! It makes total sense for Radiants to fear their own power if their leaders can yeet an Unmade out of existence (or so it seemed).
@@MeMySkirtandI I think we're missing something more. Judging by the Sibling's and Navani's interactions in Part I of RoW, it might be that they realized that they (spren) could be enslaved. Maybe they thought of some way that a spren could be FORCED to bond, which is why the Sibling doesn't like it. And this COULD lead to the destruction of Roshar, as the entire reason the Nahel bond exists is to limit Surgebinding so that what happened to Ashyn doesn't happen to Roshar.
So:
1) Capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram showed that capturing Unmade was possible.
2) From 1), lesser powerful spren (such as Radiant spren) could also be captured.
3) It might be possible for a Bondsmith to create a forced Nahel bond between a captured Radiant spren and a human (one that would not be subject to the spren's oversight/control).
4) Unrestrained Surgebinding can lead to the destruction of Roshar.
5) Honor was no longer in a state to enforce limits on Surgebinding through Stormlight.
6) Only option: Renounce the bond.
That seems like the Orders' train of thought.
I'm doing a reread like most people to catch up on things and just happened to be on chapter 80 The Dog and the Dragon when the latest chapters for W and T were released, and no spoilers of course but there is a paragraph where Kaldin thinks this about the wind-
'Ever since he could remember-since childhood-he had loved the wind. The feel of it on his skin meant he was free. Meant he was alive. It brought new scents, clean and fresh. The wind had always been there, his friend, his companion, his ally. Until one day it had come to life and started talking to him.'
Haven't seen anyone mention this yet but it's clear that the wind did talk to him, right?
That passage seems totally applicable to this situation. I mentioned it in my reaction to chapters 1&2, where I assumed that that was Sylphrena. But we know what happens when one assumes...
Watching your videos often gives me the feeling that you would quite like to just live in a musical full time ha
Who says I'm not? (though admittedly there are long periods without songs) It's a matter of perspective! 🙃
The fact that Kal is not coming back to Dalanar is a bad sign..not to mention Dalanars chapter with Odium in oathbringer is titled "Always with you"...
It reminds me of when I DNF'ed Eragon because everyone kept on telling him that. But I hope this means he's going on a long fun adventure with Syl.
I think the whole wind thing is simply Brandos way of calling Kaladin to a more fundamental pure non destructive magic. I expect Dalinar to lose his contest. Stormfather will become evil hence the new storm. The story has constantly been flirting with the idea of unchecked power and the fallibility of man. Kal is the only one who has shown the ability to put down the sword. Wind is the archetype of change. Kal will have to show the world a new way. The whole ba ado mishram plot will reveal the lies of the oath pact and knights radiant. There will probably be a schism among the radiants. In Sunlit man Sigzil talks about his failure of leadership, shredding the soul of a dear friend, and questioning the idea of the honorable soldier. I expect a couple major character deaths. I don't think Kaladin or Syl can ascend to some type of new power or godhood because you have to wipe the slate clean for the next series. They either have to die in some self righteous sacrifice or give up their power.
Giving up power hasn't gone too well in the Cosmere either... I don't expect this to end well. But there is always a fool's hope.
I think the origin might be a vent of investiure for the jail maybe the oath pact is the lock
I’m not sure I follow. But the origin does have interesting vibes.
@@MeMySkirtandI the prison the unmade I am theorizing might be maintained by the oath pact however the amount of investiure causes a build up that has to be vented into the physical realm causing the storms
So my theory is that the wind will be reborn when she merges with Sill (I am spaceing on how to spell her name.) Yet Sill will remain so she has winds power but none of her memories.
I like it!
Kaladin bonded the Wind!
One hopes
Cool.
Thanks!