I really enjoy your regular tests and reviews, but this Frankenstein stuff is a real treat. Can’t wait to see a 3 phase converted Amazon special or Hemi powered Ryobi in the future.
Another thought, most welders can be adjusted down pretty low voltage, just crank the welder down to like 22V, and hook that bad boy up. Plenty of amps then.
I would assume if you used an ac welder you could delete the brain box since you'd no longer need to have it do the switching (brushless motors are ac by design, the pcb inside the tool converts dc in to ac out by switching polarity) thanks AVE for explaining that to me in 100s of videos
You may have plenty of amps but those wouldn't be the battery-clean DC amps the tool's electronic control requires. At least not on remotely affordable welders.
@@teardowndan5364 Would putting 2 large car batteries in parallel with the welder help smooth it out? Discharged a little to 11V each for 22V together they should still be able to put out a few hundred amps.
That power supply coming to life so to speak after unplugging is a good thing. It is discharging so that you won't accidently shock yourself if messing with it unplugged from power stored in the capacitors.
A power supply with a remote sense line connected directly to the input of the tool would compensate for any voltage drop in the long wires and metal connectors. Just a thought...
That seems to be not a voltage drop, but rather power supply detecting the surge and cutting off power, would be interesting to see this test done with a proper copper transformer rather than a impulse power supply
I'd be interested to see some wild RC hobby motors swapped into a tool. I worked on a buddy's combat robot and the tiny little brushless motor that drove the weapon makes 3hp and is absolutely violent.
Bring the + and - sense wires out from the power supply and connect them at the load end of the wires. That will effectively eliminate the wire resistance and keep a steady voltage at the tool. Much better regulation of the beans.
I feel like the ultimate solution would: -Have the "battery" clips intact -Have capacitors or super capacitors inside the "battery" to soften current pulses -Have thicker wires -Have a voltage drop sense line -Have adjustable voltage, potentiality up to 24VDC to overclock the tool
What current pulses would you get in DC? DC always has a stable voltage and current. Its so stable that capacitors are only effectively used in ac circuits cause dc cannot pass through the dielectric insulator of a capacitor. Secondly voltage drop would not play a variable here as the length of conductors is not long enough to produce such voltage drop, and upping the wire gauge negates any voltage drop regardless
@@justinturnsvirtual Nope and nope. Power tools create massive current pulses, causing the DC power supply to trip out. Capacitors are effectively used in DC circuits all the time. They only block DC in series, they "store" DC in parallel. Voltage drop is almost certainly coming into play here with a wire run over 6ft and current approaching 100A! That can be partially helped with thicker wire, which is why I suggested that improvement.
Use a high amperage variac connected to 220/240vac on a 50amp breaker to maintain a solid 120VAC with a DC inverter capable of 24VDC at 3000 watts. Use welding wire for connections as it has more surface area and designed for high heat and floating grounds. This will get you headed in the right direction.
Presumably you mean cross sectional area since there is no skin effect at 60 Hz. so we want a larger gauge wire. Does sound like fun, though, I have to say.
no reason to delete the locking tabs on the donor battery. No reason to even gut the battery, use the cells as buffer. And then use an appropriate plug.
Skip the variac, use a power supply with universal input range instead, then the PFC front-end will compensate for input voltage variations better than any variac ever will and most PSUs over 1.8kW are 180-264V in the first place. Going overkill on external wiring won't help much when the electronic motor drivers are usually current-limited to preserve themselves, internal wiring and battery pack.
@@teardowndan5364 The point to the overkill is to eliminate any weak links in the chain. Let the end machine be the limit. A high amperage variac can be dialed to a specific nominal voltage under high load to maintain a constant supply to the dc inverter.
I actually tried to make something like this a few years back. However, I didn't want to spend the money on a high-watt PSU, so instead I scavenged a transformer out of a dead surver UPS, a big bridge rectifier from something else, and bought a capacitor the size of a coke can off an electronics supply site. This made, quite possible, the absolute worst unregulated linear voltage regulator mankind has ever seen. It did actually power the drill and not kill anything (including me), but the final power box was the size of a shoe box, weighed about 20lbs, and barely had enough torque to turn a 1/2" spade bit. I keep it around just because it looks hilarious, but I don't actually use it. The concept was sound though! I think what these devices really need is a super-capacitor on the output side to help absorb the initial current draw from starting up the stalled motor. The big thing that a battery can do that a switching power supply can't is handle huge current draw for relatively short periods of time without sagging too much. A Lithium-Ion battery can put out some fairly ridiculous amounts of current for a second or two with much less sag than your average switching power supply. You need something that acts a bit like the start capacitor on an air conditioner to help feed that initial spike when the motor starts up, because the bulk cap on the input side of your average switcher just can't hold the voltage up long enough. Basically, you need more watts-in-a-can to get the motor started, but once it is moving the PSU should be able to meet the power needs just fine.
Cool. I think a plug in option is a great idea for cordless tools. I rigged up my kids hot wheels track booster (Needed 4D batteries!) to an old power brick and plugged it in. The cars stopped falling off the loop. t worked great.
Love it! I use a “hacked” server computer power supply to power my RC charger, but never thought to hook it up to Milwaukee tools… They sell battery kits on eBay with locking tabs. Maybe combine that with home brew 12V power supply based on Branded (HP) server PSUs that are CHEAP on flea-bay. They’re switch mode, have excellent voltage tolerances and overcurrent protection + efficiency, and some even have cooling fans built in.
I love when you do these episodes, it's way more fun than "let's see one dynograph v another". Get Colin Furze to send you something, you'll probably end up with a V8 supercharged impact wrench.
I wonder how clean the dc power looks from that supply on a scope? Maybe just 2 car batteries in series would be better. 24 volts of nice clean dc power with all the amps she can suffer. It's pretty hard to replicate true chemical dc power from ac, much the same way making a true sign wave from a dc source. Thanks guys.
exactly what I was thinking! 3 x 6V golf cart batteries in series would be pretty close to the original voltages (9 cells @ 2.12V = 19.1V) and with almost no limit in the current delivery capacity. Would be much better then using an AC to DC converter. New battery have low internal resistance and therefore minimal voltage drop under high current usage, as long as you're using big enough wires.
the connector, XT60's use them in drones. Take an ice pick or 1.5mm allen head and spread the pins in the male connector. sligthly expanding them will make the connection pass max amps and stay together. its a common thing to do every now and then. love the channel.
I am a principal electrical engineer and I have experience working with power tools similar to the ones that you are using. I suggest putting a lot of capacitance at the end of those leads from the power supply. Power rating is not sufficient when doing these tests. The capacitors act as local power sources close to the power tool. The long wires act as inductance restricting short term current bursts which are required by the tool. So, my recommendation is that you add capacitors inside the battery pack which is no longer connected.
Very cool. The lack in voltage sag def helped a bit, a slightly bigger power supply would've done the trick but it's not as fun as a 1.5kw like you said. Excellent work boys keep em comin
great scott! did one of these conversions in a video a couple years back but with much lower expectations and using junked makita drills. he includes schematics and wiring diagrams.
@@_Dimon_ I wonder why I never thought about this more. LiPo's are awesome for high current loads. Why do all tools use Li-ion? Li-ion's extra safety is great for portable devices such as your phone, but when working with powertools like an Impact, stuff get hot anyway, things can break and hurt you, grease can catch fire. LiPo's could enable way more power to the tools, and are still pretty darn safe anyway. If something were to happen, and a battery started to burn, the working enviroment would most likely have things to accomidate that, either by you being outside, or having a fire extinguisher nearby.
@@novideohereatall safety, capacity and longevity. if you browse some airsoft or drone forums you get the picture, they dont age that good and are more fragile in relation to the gain.
I have a similar setup. Three is a voltage display on my unit with adjustment. The Max current output is 20 amps and I adjusted the voltage to 21 volts; so the max power output is 420 watts. I hooked it up to my ridgid tools. All worked out well except for the sds plus hammer tool.
Would love to see voltage measurements at the tool under load on this guy (actually it'd be neat to see in general for stock tools as well). Those wires are dropping voltage which lowers the motor capability - let's see a 21V supply (equivalent to 5S lithium ion at full charge) with 10 gauge cables and then crank it up till the smoke comes out!
Make a battery/capacitor hybrid. put caps in parallel with your battery pack. Should be really good for break loose jobs, but top out the same on long jobs. They're also much lighter and last WAY longer than batteries.
As far as upgrading things, used to spend some time in the car audio world, they would use massive 3000w contious converters to run some of the display setups. For the really big stuff, they had a battery bank and several converters to produce 10kw for the minute or so they ran the system for customers. I know most of those were around a thousand a piece, but the power is definitely out there
This is definitely the type of mad science collaborations I want to see lol. I actually wondered after the gas milwaukee what would happen if an engine was put on a air gun like the thor which have a different hammering apparatus that meant for high ripems. Keep doing what you guys do
Adding a proper connector and a better dummy battery could actually be a good addition to many people's workshops , considering that you dont have to wasted electricity on battery inefficient charging and power conversion, but also the hassle of charging it. Very good idea, I am actually surprised that companies dont make such dummy batteries as similar contraptions as similar products already exist for cameras for example.
I've noticed some odd stuff with my milwaukee gear like this too. Sometimes if I use a plasma cutter with any cables near my 2767, the light will come on, and less commonly it won't turn off until I pull the battery and reconnect it
I would love to see a modified impact gun with an upgraded motor and using a VESC motor controller and external power supply. You will be able to get some incredible tourqe out of it until the internal components decide they dont like eachother anymore
Maybe diy op battery (will be cheaper) Like 20 cells of samsung 40T Or beef up pcb power lines (extra solder etc) on bms and motor driver so there is no loss of power And extra beef up battery connection (extra external xt60 or something)
The question on those power supplies is how /low/ can the voltage adjustment range go? Not that I'd have too many qualms about slamming 24V into an 18V tool. But you could take the 125A power supply at 12V, put two in series (assuming the DC rail commons aren't shunted to earth, then some more sketch has to go into that) and have yourself ~24V at 125A, nearly twice as much as you had this time! Maybe it could handle the 1". The alternative could be paralleling multiple 18V or 24V supplies, but since current balancing will be far from perfect, they hopefully protect against backfeeding, then you could parallel them all day long and get some decent-ish performance... But don't quote me on that.
Paralleling multiple switching supplies might cause some complex interactions since they see each other's ripple. The higher the switching frequency the better, probably. I haven't properly studied the topic though.
@@javaguru7141 I assume by ripple you mean ripple voltage (as ripple current exists and is also relevant in the context of power supplies). In my own studies on the subject of paralleling power supplies, I don't recall any concerns over noise from one interfering with the other. In fact, since many types of electric loads can produce noise that the power supply could otherwise sense at its voltage output, it makes sense to put a whole bunch of capacitors on the output and filter that voltage out(The higher power the supply, the more capacitance you're going to have). In that case you can use the voltage almost as an average in that portion of the feedback loop. Otherwise you still have to control the current which has different problems and also varies based on how the power supply is designed. The biggest problem with paralleling power sources is keeping them balanced. It's very likely one will end up shouldering more load than the other just due to manufacturing differences. It's a complex problem with some interesting papers written on the subject. In this case the magnitude of the imbalance would change the max power you could get out of that configuration, if it was well balanced, you could get close to twice the power. Adding some resistance in series of each supply's output is a cheap way to help balance, but not a perfect solution and wastes energy.
I would do thicker cables for sure and try to keep them as short as possible. I feel that the pack of power is more the wires then the psu to be honest. I've done something very simular recently for 12v service. I run 6 lights at 100w per light from a computer psu. And I had to do a lot of trickery to get the power from the psu to the lights without seeing a massive drop in voltage from one end to the other. You always want to have + branch both at the psu and one at the draw. Then wire a multimeter in voltage mode across those. And the number your seeing say 1v take that times 2 and you have a 2volt drop from start to end just across the wires. Keep that as low as possible. Good wires to use are jump starter cables with super good termination for cars that are made from pure copper. You want a very heavy gadge cable.
You could also piggyback a battery pack with the power supply, as long as you do not overvoltage the max 21v used in a 5 cell battery pack, there is no risk of having them explode but connect the wires at the output and not to the cells, it would have to flow trough al the circuit resulting in power losses. I had to do that once with a semidead/underperforming battery since I only had that one at hand.
As others have said a PSU with remote sense lines would be best, a nice 3kW unit with some thicker cables. This sort of thing would be ideal for a battery powered chopsaw when it's sitting in your workshop - You can still use it out and about on battery, but when you're home you can just plug it in and not worry about batteries.
You could build another yourself pretty easily, just need a multimeter, soldering iron, and a driver set. Get the PSU, a cheap battery, some XT90 connectors, some high load resistors (just for adjusting voltage under load), and spools of some 10AWG Wire. Open the battery, and solder the 10AWG wire to the terminals, dremel out some exit holes for the wires, solder one end of the XT90 connector, then connect some more 10AWG wire to the PSU, use the high load resistors and multimeter to adjust the voltage to around 20 volts under load, solder the other XT90 connector, heatshrink everything, and you're good to go! I did something similar to an older brushed dewalt impact that I got, battery was dead, and I had a spare PSU from my 3D Printer.
I have a 1.5KW 24V power supply made with two server power supplies in series because I wanted to have a humongous power source if I ever needed one lol. Might try this 😆 Some of the sketchy stuff should be reduced as they're not nameless but made by HP so they should be better isolated/with better protections lol It's also way under-rated, I pulled 2KW from it without it even breaking a sweat, those fans in the back didn't even ramp up. I guess they're used to pull air through a whole server! Maybe I could try with two 1.2KW PSUs to have a 2.4KW 24V unit lol. Could be fun, you'd need thicker cables tho
It's a switching powersupply! Either get a decent capacitor in line, or get a transformer based supply capable of large current spikes (an old amplifier powersupply section would be perfect 😉)
Just use 3 deep cycle golf cart batteries in series. The voltage is about right and you’ll have more than enough amps. You also won’t electrocute yourself 😁
Adding a large capacitor inside the old battery housing would drastically improve performance, imo. Just make sure to add a series inrush current limiter to prevent the power supply from frying itself at startup. Also, a latching power connector would probably help. Additionally, he had a good idea when he used multiple wires on the power supply output, but even better would be carrying all 3 pairs all the way to the battery housing rather than just joining them halfway up. So yeah, maybe hack in a 6 position connector directly on the battery housing connected immediately to a big ass capacitor via an ICL
The inductance of the motor is probably firing off high voltage when the power supply switches on / off an order of magnitude faster than the PWM motor controller in the tool. That's why the keeping the shirt from touching, rubber gloves, etc. were needed. Looks like some voltage spikes backfed into the power supply and saturated some caps, that's why it turned back on when unplugged. Pretty weird and neat. A linear power supply would work much better imo.
One of the reasons you probably won’t see power supplies like this over 1500W is that the limit for a household outlet is 1500W generally. The actual limit before the cables in your walls go up in flames is 1800 but there’s a built in safety margin incase the cables are a little under the spec
big fan of the channel, i would like to see 12v impact drivers tested across brands for those of us looking to reduce bag weight while still getting those beans
..buy old server power supplies. They usually start at about 1000W, and you can put some of them in series to get the desired voltage (look on the web how-to and which ones). And they are dirt cheap...
Great video! I have built similar power sets for older style 18V tools in the past. I would get best results when having large capacitors across the PS set as you said 22V or so. I have also utilized a DC-DC converter in conjunction with the battery pack before to basically boost high inertia loads ( pick up the dip 🤣). So the set up you just tested, but using a DC-DC buck converter set to 21V and max current of converter and then you can still use the High Capacity pack also and use the converter to simply pick up the power as voltage drops off pack? Just sharing! Keep it up and God bless!
It would be cool if you got a live voltage reading while doing the tests and then overlaid the voltage drop over the torque charts as you did each test. Also you could try wiring up 2 batteries in parallel with a cable tether going up to the tool since the load an corresponding voltage drop would then get split between them. Or do 5 batteries. It could perform with even less voltage sag than the wall powered contraption, but we'd need that live voltage measurement to be sure
Static electricity is 5,000v-10,000v so it can trip some of the circuits and even fry electronics. Grounding tap should be going from the outside of the tool on the handle, down the cable to the DC power supply and tied into the ground.
My recommendation would be to get you a pair of 12v lithium golf cart batteries and put them in a backpack and wire them up in series. Depending on the brand they’ll typically have somewhere in the 300-500 amp instantaneous (10 second) discharge rating and 200-400amp continuous. So 12,000 watts at 24 volts. I realize fully charged 24v lithium batteries are probably going to be above 30v but you should be safe with that voltage. Any time you let off the trigger there is a pretty significant voltage spike (100v or more on an 18v tool) due to the magnetic field collapsing inside the motor. If it can survive that it should have no problem with 30 something volts.
I would have to guess that the cutting out would be to something like a GFCI in the power supply, detecting current leakage and cutting off the power. Tho at only 18V it’s unlikely that you’d feel it all that much
Could also be a protection feature inside the milwaukee units themselves
2 года назад
This made me think about something today. I used the Milwaukee M18 compact and nedded to get into a really tight spot, it would have fit, if it wasnt for the battery. My idea, a separate battery with cord that goes to the machine for those REALLY tight spots.
I mess with radio controll cars for a while and work with those yellow plugs. Use beefier connectors next time, not sure what amps actually went through them but xt60 in Rc world is not advised over 3s(12ish volts) if any serious amps are drawn. I’ve melted some of them running 180 amp speed controllers on 22v batteries and it’s not a fun sigh, managed to even do that at lower voltages too although could be my janky soldering this time. Jump up to xt90 at least which also accepts beefier cables or go for ic5’s. Could go overkill and use qs8 connector which also clicks in and could help with rattling. Maybe add extra cap pack inline too, commonly used in Rc’s, don’t help much with sustained load but nice for peak jumps
As someone who does tinkering using 24v power supplies, not all power supplies are the same. A lower wattage quality supply with good components will vastly outperform a higher (advertised) wattage Chinesium special. The good power supplies like Mean Well are also heavily counterfeited because of the disparity in quality. Your success if you decide to ramp up this experiment will depend heavily on the quality of power supply you acquire. Also looks like you're using XT60 connectors. Upgrade to XT150 or EC5 connectors to mitigate amperage bottlenecks.
@@GrimResistance the discharge rating is what matters though. A RC car batteries can discharge a lot faster, providing a lot more amps. Battery is included in the tool have to balance longevity with power over time. They generally try to balance longevity so that they don't burn out after a short time of use. RC car batteries have no such restrictions, very often RC car lipos don't last but maybe a few seasons.
Think the next step is 2 car battery’s for 24 v or a truck jump pack definitely have all the power you need then and kinda practical for a something like drop saw that doesn’t move a lot and probably cheaper than lithium
Kinda related. My M12 stubby impact lights up sometimes with just a slight touch after being left alone for a while. Even a bang on the bench will do it
with brushless tools your limit will be the power transistors inside the tool. but you could take 2 car batteries and produce 24 volts . those that claim 400 cold cranking amps. then use #2 welding cable. or try 3 golf car batteries for 18v. plenty of amps and no shutting down of the power supply .
This is probably why Kobalt added an extra cell for 24v, which gives them the ability to get more power at a lower temperature or have packs using cheaper batteries that still outperform 20v packs. I wish Kobalt would get in gear and be more competitive, or maybe they are focusing all their attention towards flex?
You could always crank this idea to 11... or 36 as it where. Most DC CC welders are in the 34-38V range and at 200-800Amps depending on the welder. Or maybe a M12 off of a lawn mower or car. Comparing engine off to running the engine. I'm sure that would be less sketch than the welder. It's 14.4V and max 200 amps minutes what it takes to keep the engine running. I just want to see one of these with some 4AWG hanging from it and a huge bloom of smoke out the top. But also am interested in seeing just how much the motor will suffer. After all motor are strange verbal load devices that normally fallow ohmes law. Voltage devided by resistance give you current draw. However that resistance changes in a manner when the counter emf is generated by the motor spinning. Not sure how the heavy load effects it. I get that there's a physical resistance to rotation the heavier you go the more there is. But does it show up as additional counter emf or is it because of the heat of the motor building up that creates the higher amp draw. But you can also see a spike of current when a motor firsts trys to rotate. Hmmm....
You could use lead acid car batteries.It would do the same thing.The 18V lithium battery is probably a 5S which means the fully charged voltage is 21V so you could probably get away with two 12V lead acids if you dont charge them to 100% . The only concern is the input capacitors in the tool might be rated for 24V max which means it will blow up if you connect two 12V batteries
That was awesome!! I think adding some large capacitors or even supercapacitors in the battery pack would improve things alot more. The reason is switching power supplies like nice constant loads, not a dynamic load such as a brushless motor stalling out 100+ times a second. Adding capacitors into the battery will help with the current peaks and might reduce the current spikes on the power supply from tripping the over current protection. You could see on the big boy M18 1" that the LED lights were dimming in even the no load trigger pulls. So if it was made again I would use the 3 wires going directly into an XT-90 connector then 8AWG going into the dummy battery. He used an XT-60 and then very thin wires going into the dummy battery so there was decent voltage drop across that. I think if TTC gave him a real M18 battery with the proper locking mechanism and high quality contacts it would do much better. Then adding very low ESR Electrolytic capacitors or Supercapacitors into the battery itself that would drastically improve the power supply system.
Unfortunately the OEM batteries don't work with this. I tried several and couldn't get an output. And the battery retainer clips... let's not talk about that.
you are correct that capacitors do help smooth out surges, but for the load you have here, they are impractical. You need a humongous capacitor and even then it's a crude way to do it.
Best way to improve this is to put significant capacitance in the battery adaptor right at the tool so current peaks can be absorbed by them and the PSU gets a more steady load. And turning up the voltage. And higher power units that can over power your 1000 dollar beast. Do it all :-D
All fine, but do try to check the actual volts being delivered to the terminals of the impacter. Even fat cable like that will lose an appreciable voltage over a run over several feet, and the last little bit of (thin!) wire plus its connector will lose more. Another thought: you might be able to get the 1-inch model to run by putting a really hefty capacitor across the power supply to help with the start-up surge. I suspect that the steady running current isn't as much as the 80-ish amps that supply should be able to provide.
I'll give them my current measuring equipment for the next round so we can collect that as well. I did this for some of the smaller tools as a point of reference, but this would be great to see here too. ruclips.net/video/JY_vQyFzP4A/видео.html
I really enjoy your regular tests and reviews, but this Frankenstein stuff is a real treat. Can’t wait to see a 3 phase converted Amazon special or Hemi powered Ryobi in the future.
Brushless tools are already three phase
@@lunchboxproductions1183 he's referring to 240v 3 phase
240v three phase doesn't exist in the US. It's either 208v or 480v +
@@lunchboxproductions1183 I bet you're super fun at parties
480v 3ph impact. Would want to see , it probably dangerous as hell
Another thought, most welders can be adjusted down pretty low voltage, just crank the welder down to like 22V, and hook that bad boy up. Plenty of amps then.
Yusssss
I would assume if you used an ac welder you could delete the brain box since you'd no longer need to have it do the switching (brushless motors are ac by design, the pcb inside the tool converts dc in to ac out by switching polarity) thanks AVE for explaining that to me in 100s of videos
@@noclass2gun342 start with the brain box there, and then crank it up till the brain box lets the magic smoke out. Then try and wire it up direct.
You may have plenty of amps but those wouldn't be the battery-clean DC amps the tool's electronic control requires. At least not on remotely affordable welders.
@@teardowndan5364 Would putting 2 large car batteries in parallel with the welder help smooth it out? Discharged a little to 11V each for 22V together they should still be able to put out a few hundred amps.
Here for Science. Please do this every day. :-)
In the name of beans we gladly run down this rabbit hole!
We need to see a 2kw
I noticed the curve was smoother from the power supply vs the battery packs. Neat!
That power supply coming to life so to speak after unplugging is a good thing. It is discharging so that you won't accidently shock yourself if messing with it unplugged from power stored in the capacitors.
Now this is the kind of insight I'm looking for!
A power supply with a remote sense line connected directly to the input of the tool would compensate for any voltage drop in the long wires and metal connectors. Just a thought...
Choose correct wire and dont worry about big drop and hot wires.
That seems to be not a voltage drop, but rather power supply detecting the surge and cutting off power, would be interesting to see this test done with a proper copper transformer rather than a impulse power supply
Sense lines ftw!! And measure the voltage to check if the supply is keeping up.
I agree, needs a sense line. Would keep the voltage constant while the load changes.
@@UrbExGear linear power supplies arent as good as switching ones.
I'd be interested to see some wild RC hobby motors swapped into a tool. I worked on a buddy's combat robot and the tiny little brushless motor that drove the weapon makes 3hp and is absolutely violent.
Bring the + and - sense wires out from the power supply and connect them at the load end of the wires. That will effectively eliminate the wire resistance and keep a steady voltage at the tool. Much better regulation of the beans.
I feel like the ultimate solution would:
-Have the "battery" clips intact
-Have capacitors or super capacitors inside the "battery" to soften current pulses
-Have thicker wires
-Have a voltage drop sense line
-Have adjustable voltage, potentiality up to 24VDC to overclock the tool
What current pulses would you get in DC? DC always has a stable voltage and current. Its so stable that capacitors are only effectively used in ac circuits cause dc cannot pass through the dielectric insulator of a capacitor. Secondly voltage drop would not play a variable here as the length of conductors is not long enough to produce such voltage drop, and upping the wire gauge negates any voltage drop regardless
@@justinturnsvirtual Nope and nope. Power tools create massive current pulses, causing the DC power supply to trip out. Capacitors are effectively used in DC circuits all the time. They only block DC in series, they "store" DC in parallel.
Voltage drop is almost certainly coming into play here with a wire run over 6ft and current approaching 100A! That can be partially helped with thicker wire, which is why I suggested that improvement.
@@ewicky thanks for the insight!
Nasty
Get a power supply that runs off of a 20A outlet
Use a high amperage variac connected to 220/240vac on a 50amp breaker to maintain a solid 120VAC with a DC inverter capable of 24VDC at 3000 watts. Use welding wire for connections as it has more surface area and designed for high heat and floating grounds. This will get you headed in the right direction.
Presumably you mean cross sectional area since there is no skin effect at 60 Hz. so we want a larger gauge wire. Does sound like fun, though, I have to say.
no reason to delete the locking tabs on the donor battery. No reason to even gut the battery, use the cells as buffer. And then use an appropriate plug.
Skip the variac, use a power supply with universal input range instead, then the PFC front-end will compensate for input voltage variations better than any variac ever will and most PSUs over 1.8kW are 180-264V in the first place. Going overkill on external wiring won't help much when the electronic motor drivers are usually current-limited to preserve themselves, internal wiring and battery pack.
@@teardowndan5364 The point to the overkill is to eliminate any weak links in the chain. Let the end machine be the limit. A high amperage variac can be dialed to a specific nominal voltage under high load to maintain a constant supply to the dc inverter.
My god… the chosen one.
I actually tried to make something like this a few years back. However, I didn't want to spend the money on a high-watt PSU, so instead I scavenged a transformer out of a dead surver UPS, a big bridge rectifier from something else, and bought a capacitor the size of a coke can off an electronics supply site. This made, quite possible, the absolute worst unregulated linear voltage regulator mankind has ever seen. It did actually power the drill and not kill anything (including me), but the final power box was the size of a shoe box, weighed about 20lbs, and barely had enough torque to turn a 1/2" spade bit. I keep it around just because it looks hilarious, but I don't actually use it. The concept was sound though!
I think what these devices really need is a super-capacitor on the output side to help absorb the initial current draw from starting up the stalled motor. The big thing that a battery can do that a switching power supply can't is handle huge current draw for relatively short periods of time without sagging too much. A Lithium-Ion battery can put out some fairly ridiculous amounts of current for a second or two with much less sag than your average switching power supply. You need something that acts a bit like the start capacitor on an air conditioner to help feed that initial spike when the motor starts up, because the bulk cap on the input side of your average switcher just can't hold the voltage up long enough. Basically, you need more watts-in-a-can to get the motor started, but once it is moving the PSU should be able to meet the power needs just fine.
Brushless motor don't have any increased current draw to start. The motor controller is in control
Cool. I think a plug in option is a great idea for cordless tools. I rigged up my kids hot wheels track booster (Needed 4D batteries!) to an old power brick and plugged it in. The cars stopped falling off the loop. t worked great.
Love it! I use a “hacked” server computer power supply to power my RC charger, but never thought to hook it up to Milwaukee tools…
They sell battery kits on eBay with locking tabs. Maybe combine that with home brew 12V power supply based on Branded (HP) server PSUs that are CHEAP on flea-bay.
They’re switch mode, have excellent voltage tolerances and overcurrent protection + efficiency, and some even have cooling fans built in.
I love when you do these episodes, it's way more fun than "let's see one dynograph v another".
Get Colin Furze to send you something, you'll probably end up with a V8 supercharged impact wrench.
I died when you said OSHA no no box 😂😂😂. Love those one liners man.
as an electronics engineer with some experience in that field use XT90 connectors not xt60 ! great video as always ! Cheers
Just need Keysight or BK to send you a nice 3kW lab supply. For science.
Some large units are rentable. Might be an idea.
I wonder how clean the dc power looks from that supply on a scope? Maybe just 2 car batteries in series would be better. 24 volts of nice clean dc power with all the amps she can suffer. It's pretty hard to replicate true chemical dc power from ac, much the same way making a true sign wave from a dc source. Thanks guys.
You can make a perfect sine wave from DC!
Just connect a DC Machine to an AC-Generator! :P
this is how to do it. ~2000 CCA should do the job.
exactly what I was thinking! 3 x 6V golf cart batteries in series would be pretty close to the original voltages (9 cells @ 2.12V = 19.1V) and with almost no limit in the current delivery capacity. Would be much better then using an AC to DC converter. New battery have low internal resistance and therefore minimal voltage drop under high current usage, as long as you're using big enough wires.
@@novideohereatall I've got a old mo-gen Lincoln SA300 that does just the opposite and it's still one of the sweetest welders I've ever run.
@@savard02 exactly
the connector, XT60's use them in drones. Take an ice pick or 1.5mm allen head and spread the pins in the male connector. sligthly expanding them will make the connection pass max amps and stay together. its a common thing to do every now and then. love the channel.
I've found the legitimate amass connectors are pretty solid and don't need anything like this
I am a principal electrical engineer and I have experience working with power tools similar to the ones that you are using. I suggest putting a lot of capacitance at the end of those leads from the power supply. Power rating is not sufficient when doing these tests. The capacitors act as local power sources close to the power tool. The long wires act as inductance restricting short term current bursts which are required by the tool.
So, my recommendation is that you add capacitors inside the battery pack which is no longer connected.
Very cool. The lack in voltage sag def helped a bit, a slightly bigger power supply would've done the trick but it's not as fun as a 1.5kw like you said. Excellent work boys keep em comin
great scott! did one of these conversions in a video a couple years back but with much lower expectations and using junked makita drills. he includes schematics and wiring diagrams.
I just watched his video the other day and I was surprised how few views there were on it. Solid work!
These science test videos are extremely fun to watch
Just get two (big) car batteries in series and youre at more than enough amps
The voltage might be a tad too high but definitely worth investigating.
Or some lipo batteries(they are used on rc planes and drones.) All the amps you'll ever need.
@@_Dimon_ yeah but those cost muchos moneys, i reckon they can find a couple of car batteries more easily
@@_Dimon_ I wonder why I never thought about this more. LiPo's are awesome for high current loads. Why do all tools use Li-ion?
Li-ion's extra safety is great for portable devices such as your phone, but when working with powertools like an Impact, stuff get hot anyway, things can break and hurt you, grease can catch fire. LiPo's could enable way more power to the tools, and are still pretty darn safe anyway. If something were to happen, and a battery started to burn, the working enviroment would most likely have things to accomidate that, either by you being outside, or having a fire extinguisher nearby.
@@novideohereatall safety, capacity and longevity. if you browse some airsoft or drone forums you get the picture, they dont age that good and are more fragile in relation to the gain.
I have a similar setup. Three is a voltage display on my unit with adjustment. The Max current output is 20 amps and I adjusted the voltage to 21 volts; so the max power output is 420 watts. I hooked it up to my ridgid tools. All worked out well except for the sds plus hammer tool.
Would love to see voltage measurements at the tool under load on this guy (actually it'd be neat to see in general for stock tools as well). Those wires are dropping voltage which lowers the motor capability - let's see a 21V supply (equivalent to 5S lithium ion at full charge) with 10 gauge cables and then crank it up till the smoke comes out!
Make a battery/capacitor hybrid. put caps in parallel with your battery pack. Should be really good for break loose jobs, but top out the same on long jobs. They're also much lighter and last WAY longer than batteries.
As far as upgrading things, used to spend some time in the car audio world, they would use massive 3000w contious converters to run some of the display setups. For the really big stuff, they had a battery bank and several converters to produce 10kw for the minute or so they ran the system for customers. I know most of those were around a thousand a piece, but the power is definitely out there
This is definitely the type of mad science collaborations I want to see lol. I actually wondered after the gas milwaukee what would happen if an engine was put on a air gun like the thor which have a different hammering apparatus that meant for high ripems. Keep doing what you guys do
Air impact mechanisms stall out (on purpose) intermittently but gas and electric motors dont like that. Air motors dont care much
@@TorqueTestChannel ah gotcha. I just wondered. But that does make sense. Anyway keep up the awesome content
I can picture AvE enjoying this while Prudence is observing with disapproval in the background
Adding a proper connector and a better dummy battery could actually be a good addition to many people's workshops , considering that you dont have to wasted electricity on battery inefficient charging and power conversion, but also the hassle of charging it. Very good idea, I am actually surprised that companies dont make such dummy batteries as similar contraptions as similar products already exist for cameras for example.
The 'for science" series is amazing
I've noticed some odd stuff with my milwaukee gear like this too. Sometimes if I use a plasma cutter with any cables near my 2767, the light will come on, and less commonly it won't turn off until I pull the battery and reconnect it
"OSHA No No Box" that had me laughing. 🤣
I would love to see a modified impact gun with an upgraded motor and using a VESC motor controller and external power supply. You will be able to get some incredible tourqe out of it until the internal components decide they dont like eachother anymore
I really hope you do this again with more power!
I think three 6V golf cart batteries connected in series would be interesting to see.
Heck you could use 6 in series-parallel, too.
@@seth094978 At $180 per battery that is overkill!
Maybe diy op battery (will be cheaper)
Like 20 cells of samsung 40T
Or beef up pcb power lines (extra solder etc) on bms and motor driver so there is no loss of power
And extra beef up battery connection (extra external xt60 or something)
The question on those power supplies is how /low/ can the voltage adjustment range go? Not that I'd have too many qualms about slamming 24V into an 18V tool. But you could take the 125A power supply at 12V, put two in series (assuming the DC rail commons aren't shunted to earth, then some more sketch has to go into that) and have yourself ~24V at 125A, nearly twice as much as you had this time! Maybe it could handle the 1".
The alternative could be paralleling multiple 18V or 24V supplies, but since current balancing will be far from perfect, they hopefully protect against backfeeding, then you could parallel them all day long and get some decent-ish performance... But don't quote me on that.
Paralleling multiple switching supplies might cause some complex interactions since they see each other's ripple. The higher the switching frequency the better, probably. I haven't properly studied the topic though.
@@javaguru7141 I assume by ripple you mean ripple voltage (as ripple current exists and is also relevant in the context of power supplies). In my own studies on the subject of paralleling power supplies, I don't recall any concerns over noise from one interfering with the other. In fact, since many types of electric loads can produce noise that the power supply could otherwise sense at its voltage output, it makes sense to put a whole bunch of capacitors on the output and filter that voltage out(The higher power the supply, the more capacitance you're going to have). In that case you can use the voltage almost as an average in that portion of the feedback loop. Otherwise you still have to control the current which has different problems and also varies based on how the power supply is designed.
The biggest problem with paralleling power sources is keeping them balanced. It's very likely one will end up shouldering more load than the other just due to manufacturing differences. It's a complex problem with some interesting papers written on the subject. In this case the magnitude of the imbalance would change the max power you could get out of that configuration, if it was well balanced, you could get close to twice the power. Adding some resistance in series of each supply's output is a cheap way to help balance, but not a perfect solution and wastes energy.
An XT-60 connector for all that...LOVE IT!!
I've got faith that there is some unpublished factor of safety there.
I would do thicker cables for sure and try to keep them as short as possible. I feel that the pack of power is more the wires then the psu to be honest. I've done something very simular recently for 12v service. I run 6 lights at 100w per light from a computer psu. And I had to do a lot of trickery to get the power from the psu to the lights without seeing a massive drop in voltage from one end to the other.
You always want to have + branch both at the psu and one at the draw. Then wire a multimeter in voltage mode across those. And the number your seeing say 1v take that times 2 and you have a 2volt drop from start to end just across the wires. Keep that as low as possible.
Good wires to use are jump starter cables with super good termination for cars that are made from pure copper. You want a very heavy gadge cable.
You could also piggyback a battery pack with the power supply, as long as you do not overvoltage the max 21v used in a 5 cell battery pack, there is no risk of having them explode but connect the wires at the output and not to the cells, it would have to flow trough al the circuit resulting in power losses. I had to do that once with a semidead/underperforming battery since I only had that one at hand.
HIs amazing he took that crapy old cordless tech and converted to high tech wired.... Genius
The sketch factor is real. I love it.
As others have said a PSU with remote sense lines would be best, a nice 3kW unit with some thicker cables. This sort of thing would be ideal for a battery powered chopsaw when it's sitting in your workshop - You can still use it out and about on battery, but when you're home you can just plug it in and not worry about batteries.
"O.S.H.A. NO NO BOX"... 😆
The writing and narration on this channel is top notch.
You could build another yourself pretty easily, just need a multimeter, soldering iron, and a driver set. Get the PSU, a cheap battery, some XT90 connectors, some high load resistors (just for adjusting voltage under load), and spools of some 10AWG Wire. Open the battery, and solder the 10AWG wire to the terminals, dremel out some exit holes for the wires, solder one end of the XT90 connector, then connect some more 10AWG wire to the PSU, use the high load resistors and multimeter to adjust the voltage to around 20 volts under load, solder the other XT90 connector, heatshrink everything, and you're good to go!
I did something similar to an older brushed dewalt impact that I got, battery was dead, and I had a spare PSU from my 3D Printer.
I have a 1.5KW 24V power supply made with two server power supplies in series because I wanted to have a humongous power source if I ever needed one lol. Might try this 😆
Some of the sketchy stuff should be reduced as they're not nameless but made by HP so they should be better isolated/with better protections lol
It's also way under-rated, I pulled 2KW from it without it even breaking a sweat, those fans in the back didn't even ramp up. I guess they're used to pull air through a whole server!
Maybe I could try with two 1.2KW PSUs to have a 2.4KW 24V unit lol. Could be fun, you'd need thicker cables tho
I'd have just Frankensteined my own version of makitas battery backpack, but this thing is just awesome. XD
It's a switching powersupply! Either get a decent capacitor in line, or get a transformer based supply capable of large current spikes (an old amplifier powersupply section would be perfect 😉)
Just use 3 deep cycle golf cart batteries in series. The voltage is about right and you’ll have more than enough amps. You also won’t electrocute yourself 😁
Gotta love a Frankenstein⚡ power pack! Igor would be impressed! 😆👍
The descriptions of the magical pixies at work are hilarious
Sketch (x) has a direct relationship with fun (y)
"OSHA no-no-box" literally chuckled
Adding a large capacitor inside the old battery housing would drastically improve performance, imo. Just make sure to add a series inrush current limiter to prevent the power supply from frying itself at startup. Also, a latching power connector would probably help. Additionally, he had a good idea when he used multiple wires on the power supply output, but even better would be carrying all 3 pairs all the way to the battery housing rather than just joining them halfway up. So yeah, maybe hack in a 6 position connector directly on the battery housing connected immediately to a big ass capacitor via an ICL
The inductance of the motor is probably firing off high voltage when the power supply switches on / off an order of magnitude faster than the PWM motor controller in the tool. That's why the keeping the shirt from touching, rubber gloves, etc. were needed.
Looks like some voltage spikes backfed into the power supply and saturated some caps, that's why it turned back on when unplugged.
Pretty weird and neat. A linear power supply would work much better imo.
One of the reasons you probably won’t see power supplies like this over 1500W is that the limit for a household outlet is 1500W generally. The actual limit before the cables in your walls go up in flames is 1800 but there’s a built in safety margin incase the cables are a little under the spec
big fan of the channel, i would like to see 12v impact drivers tested across brands for those of us looking to reduce bag weight while still getting those beans
Put the whole contraption into a Milwaukee bag with some neat I/O plugs on the outside with maybe a computer fan cooling the inards.
..buy old server power supplies. They usually start at about 1000W, and you can put some of them in series to get the desired voltage (look on the web how-to and which ones). And they are dirt cheap...
The sketch factor here is awesome.
I FINALLY just noticed that your logo has TTC on the impact wrench handle. 😆🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Wow that sketchiness is off the charts, but I can't help but love it. A true hold my beer situation
I'll make sure the next version is bigger and sketchier.
Tim Taylor would be proud , "More power!"
Great video!
I have built similar power sets for older style 18V tools in the past. I would get best results when having large capacitors across the PS set as you said 22V or so. I have also utilized a DC-DC converter in conjunction with the battery pack before to basically boost high inertia loads ( pick up the dip 🤣). So the set up you just tested, but using a DC-DC buck converter set to 21V and max current of converter and then you can still use the High Capacity pack also and use the converter to simply pick up the power as voltage drops off pack?
Just sharing! Keep it up and God bless!
It would be cool if you got a live voltage reading while doing the tests and then overlaid the voltage drop over the torque charts as you did each test. Also you could try wiring up 2 batteries in parallel with a cable tether going up to the tool since the load an corresponding voltage drop would then get split between them. Or do 5 batteries. It could perform with even less voltage sag than the wall powered contraption, but we'd need that live voltage measurement to be sure
Static electricity is 5,000v-10,000v so it can trip some of the circuits and even fry electronics. Grounding tap should be going from the outside of the tool on the handle, down the cable to the DC power supply and tied into the ground.
My recommendation would be to get you a pair of 12v lithium golf cart batteries and put them in a backpack and wire them up in series. Depending on the brand they’ll typically have somewhere in the 300-500 amp instantaneous (10 second) discharge rating and 200-400amp continuous. So 12,000 watts at 24 volts. I realize fully charged 24v lithium batteries are probably going to be above 30v but you should be safe with that voltage. Any time you let off the trigger there is a pretty significant voltage spike (100v or more on an 18v tool) due to the magnetic field collapsing inside the motor. If it can survive that it should have no problem with 30 something volts.
I would have to guess that the cutting out would be to something like a GFCI in the power supply, detecting current leakage and cutting off the power. Tho at only 18V it’s unlikely that you’d feel it all that much
Could also be a protection feature inside the milwaukee units themselves
This made me think about something today. I used the Milwaukee M18 compact and nedded to get into a really tight spot, it would have fit, if it wasnt for the battery. My idea, a separate battery with cord that goes to the machine for those REALLY tight spots.
That’s called an air Impact haha
I mess with radio controll cars for a while and work with those yellow plugs. Use beefier connectors next time, not sure what amps actually went through them but xt60 in Rc world is not advised over 3s(12ish volts) if any serious amps are drawn. I’ve melted some of them running 180 amp speed controllers on 22v batteries and it’s not a fun sigh, managed to even do that at lower voltages too although could be my janky soldering this time. Jump up to xt90 at least which also accepts beefier cables or go for ic5’s.
Could go overkill and use qs8 connector which also clicks in and could help with rattling.
Maybe add extra cap pack inline too, commonly used in Rc’s, don’t help much with sustained load but nice for peak jumps
Keep up the hard work I'm enjoying these videos
The wire between the power supply and dummy pack is nowhere near large enough for the current required to mimic a battery
Perhaps try some car audio supercapacitors, they should be able to deliver everything you need
As someone who does tinkering using 24v power supplies, not all power supplies are the same. A lower wattage quality supply with good components will vastly outperform a higher (advertised) wattage Chinesium special. The good power supplies like Mean Well are also heavily counterfeited because of the disparity in quality. Your success if you decide to ramp up this experiment will depend heavily on the quality of power supply you acquire. Also looks like you're using XT60 connectors. Upgrade to XT150 or EC5 connectors to mitigate amperage bottlenecks.
Check out hlg power supply. It’s what they use to power grow room LEDs. Constant current or constant voltage. 😉
Nice.
I would expect with the length of the cables and their sizes that you would actually still be getting a volt or 2 of droop there as well.
I wonder what a pair of RC 4S lipos would do. That is an XT90 connector on there, a 120 discharge RC lipo could be very interesting.
The standard batteries are just 5s li-ion so you'd want to use 5s lipo packs to get the right voltage, not common but they're out there.
@@GrimResistance the discharge rating is what matters though. A RC car batteries can discharge a lot faster, providing a lot more amps. Battery is included in the tool have to balance longevity with power over time. They generally try to balance longevity so that they don't burn out after a short time of use. RC car batteries have no such restrictions, very often RC car lipos don't last but maybe a few seasons.
If you use a 4s pack then it will be significantly worse
That was Sketchtastic!
Think the next step is 2 car battery’s for 24 v or a truck jump pack definitely have all the power you need then and kinda practical for a something like drop saw that doesn’t move a lot and probably cheaper than lithium
Former OSHA guy here. That no no box is awesome. 🤣
Kinda related. My M12 stubby impact lights up sometimes with just a slight touch after being left alone for a while. Even a bang on the bench will do it
with brushless tools your limit will be the power transistors inside the tool. but you could take 2 car batteries and produce 24 volts . those that claim 400 cold cranking amps. then use #2 welding cable. or try 3 golf car batteries for 18v. plenty of amps and no shutting down of the power supply .
The premise alone warrants a like, even before I made it through the intro
How about two lead acid batteries in serie? 24v, yeah, but it has huge discharging amps capability
This is probably why Kobalt added an extra cell for 24v, which gives them the ability to get more power at a lower temperature or have packs using cheaper batteries that still outperform 20v packs.
I wish Kobalt would get in gear and be more competitive, or maybe they are focusing all their attention towards flex?
Just the sort of thing I like to see! Nice!
You could always crank this idea to 11... or 36 as it where. Most DC CC welders are in the 34-38V range and at 200-800Amps depending on the welder. Or maybe a M12 off of a lawn mower or car. Comparing engine off to running the engine. I'm sure that would be less sketch than the welder. It's 14.4V and max 200 amps minutes what it takes to keep the engine running. I just want to see one of these with some 4AWG hanging from it and a huge bloom of smoke out the top. But also am interested in seeing just how much the motor will suffer. After all motor are strange verbal load devices that normally fallow ohmes law. Voltage devided by resistance give you current draw. However that resistance changes in a manner when the counter emf is generated by the motor spinning. Not sure how the heavy load effects it. I get that there's a physical resistance to rotation the heavier you go the more there is. But does it show up as additional counter emf or is it because of the heat of the motor building up that creates the higher amp draw. But you can also see a spike of current when a motor firsts trys to rotate. Hmmm....
You could use lead acid car batteries.It would do the same thing.The 18V lithium battery is probably a 5S which means the fully charged voltage is 21V so you could probably get away with two 12V lead acids if you dont charge them to 100% . The only concern is the input capacitors in the tool might be rated for 24V max which means it will blow up if you connect two 12V batteries
That was awesome!! I think adding some large capacitors or even supercapacitors in the battery pack would improve things alot more. The reason is switching power supplies like nice constant loads, not a dynamic load such as a brushless motor stalling out 100+ times a second. Adding capacitors into the battery will help with the current peaks and might reduce the current spikes on the power supply from tripping the over current protection. You could see on the big boy M18 1" that the LED lights were dimming in even the no load trigger pulls. So if it was made again I would use the 3 wires going directly into an XT-90 connector then 8AWG going into the dummy battery. He used an XT-60 and then very thin wires going into the dummy battery so there was decent voltage drop across that.
I think if TTC gave him a real M18 battery with the proper locking mechanism and high quality contacts it would do much better. Then adding very low ESR Electrolytic capacitors or Supercapacitors into the battery itself that would drastically improve the power supply system.
Unfortunately the OEM batteries don't work with this. I tried several and couldn't get an output.
And the battery retainer clips... let's not talk about that.
you are correct that capacitors do help smooth out surges, but for the load you have here, they are impractical. You need a humongous capacitor and even then it's a crude way to do it.
@@mriguy3202 yea it would be way too bulky to do it fully, but I may help some
"Sketchy Facts, with the TTC..." Good times...
Best way to improve this is to put significant capacitance in the battery adaptor right at the tool so current peaks can be absorbed by them and the PSU gets a more steady load. And turning up the voltage. And higher power units that can over power your 1000 dollar beast. Do it all :-D
2 gauge cables soldered to the tool running to 2 car batteries in series for 24v & unlimited current
All fine, but do try to check the actual volts being delivered to the terminals of the impacter. Even fat cable like that will lose an appreciable voltage over a run over several feet, and the last little bit of (thin!) wire plus its connector will lose more. Another thought: you might be able to get the 1-inch model to run by putting a really hefty capacitor across the power supply to help with the start-up surge. I suspect that the steady running current isn't as much as the 80-ish amps that supply should be able to provide.
Make another one, and run them in parallel. Each on it's own breaker
Saw the title, said “oh god.” Out loud. And here I am. Hoping you didn’t come close to dying too many times.
I'd like to see these folks measuring amperage as well as voltage.
I'll give them my current measuring equipment for the next round so we can collect that as well. I did this for some of the smaller tools as a point of reference, but this would be great to see here too. ruclips.net/video/JY_vQyFzP4A/видео.html
This is awesome! Lol thanks for the fun!