Beginner Bowyer Attempts to Split Log into Bow Staves. Fail! What did I do Wrong?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- I find and harvest a superb hazel limb and attempt - for the first time - to split the log into half to make longbow staves. It's a lovely morning but the weather is changing. I harvest the limb in an old and neglected woodland. Though unkempt and unmanaged, this little wood is not unloved; I list often in every season - but autumn is my time for seeking out wood. I find a lovely hazel arrowshaft but discover a superb hazel limb and harvest it. I take the log to my woodland work area and attempt to split it. I succeed in splitting the log but the limb is twisted like a corkscrew. I make the best hazel bow wood I've ever found into firewood! Sorry about the video quality!
Thank you for watching.
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Hello from Texas! I don't think you did anything wrong in technique, Hazel is very deceptive in grain orientation. Anytime I've had my hands on Hazel I've simply started making my selfbow from the stave without splitting it. Yes this does leave a bit of waste wood but if you picked a thinner stave to work with, the waste is marginalized. As always, I'm impressed by the time you put into good camera work and the quality of your videos. Stay warm and cheers, good sir
Hello Texas! Thanks for your advice which chimes with what others say and my only other experience of making a hazel bow. I made that one just by working down the stave with no splitting - and that's what I'll do next time. I'm glad that I didn't actually do anything fundamentally wrong with the splitting - just chose the wrong wood! Appreciate your kind comments about my videos, that is appreciated very much and urges me on to make others. Thanks again. Atb, Mick
Texas has the truth of it.
👍
Texan_Strongstorm hey I'm from Texas as well,do you know a good area to get hazel
Adrian Garcia I do not, most often the other bowyers I know are growing their own hazel groves along with Osage. Most people in Texas consider these trees to be "pest trees" and either cut them down or simply don't even know they have them. To satisfy my "bow making itch" I often use the straightest piece of Mesquite, hackberry or juniper I can find and make a Plains Style flatbow out of them. Or simply make a flatbow from the kiln dried red oak boards found at Home Depot or lowes. It's a hard life for a bowyer in Texas haha
Wow, that's actually really cool. Forget firewood, make a propeller!
Lol John! You are not the first to suggest that 😂 I'll make the rest of the plane tomorrow... Atb, Mick
hahahaha
John Riggs
As usual great and informative video. Nothing wrong with failing. I'm sure you learnt a lot.
The twist in trees is caused by the tree following the movement of the sun. Trees that grow in dense forests tend to have less twist because when they beging to grow, they can't see the sun, just a speck of light in a break in the canopy, this means they grow straight until they hit the sun.
You're getting a lot of positive comments about the quality of your videos. They are really well produced.
Hello, thanks for your comment - appreciated very much.Yes the twist in the stave was likely the result of sun-follow. A number of others have suggested that too. I have much to learn! Thanks for watching and commenting. Atb, Mick
It's a pleasure, really enjoying following your journey. I'm English but I left the UK 12 years ago. I always wanted to make a bow and this is how I found your channel. Where I live (uruguay) there are few trees ideal for bow making, no hazel or hickory or oak, infact there are barely any forests. I currently have some poplar which is notoriously bad and my first effort actually snapped in the build so I am just using the rest as carving practice. I told you your videos were inspirational.
There are a few Ash around but I will have to find one that is not attached to someone's garden.
Wow, hello Uruguay! To me there must be an inspirational story that you have to tell. But thank you for saying that I have inspired you to have a go at bowmaking. I reckon if I can do it, so can most folk. Shame yours snapped - I realise how hard it must be to locate suitable woods for bowmakng - whatever the country. Did the original Uruguayan people use bows? I wonder, if they did, what they used? Anyway, great to hear from you. Stay in touch. Atb, Mick
The only thing I would recommend when splitting a wood that has twists in the grain is to make a weak spot. Saw or cut a straight line where you would like to split it (easily done with power tools) then drive the wedge in starting from the ends and work towards the middle from both sides. Thanks for all the great vids! You've helped me a ton when building bows.
Hi Will, that's timely advice, thank you - I have two elm staves to split soon and your information will be really useful for me. Thank you very much. Mick
Hi Mick. Great video as always.
I think that log had spiral grain, that's why it split that way. A log splits along it's grain.
I don't know about hazel, but usually you can look at the bark and get a good idea on the status of the grain, if it's straight, wiggly or spiral.
I know very little about splitting wood for bows, but it looks to me like that limb just grew in a funny twisted way. Oh well, I'm sure next time will be better.
Thanks for the video
Hi Evan - I know little too it seems!! Yes the limb had the twist grown into it. YEs, let's hope for better next time. Thanks for watching and taking time to comment. Atb, Mick
I love this video Mick. Im brand new with making bows. I live it Oregon and i have access to only the most knotted and twisted yew but i find your vids inspiring. I wish you would put out more bow content
I really enjoy your channel Mick, it gives me the bit of fresh air and that walk in the woods that I would love to take if I were able bodied! I used to love walking amongst the hazel coppice looking for potential walking sticks. Thank you for the bit of release and informative film. Cheers Pal. N.
Hi there Neil (Slugger!). I am sorry that you can't get about in the way you want - but I'm delighted to have you along on my ramblings around the woods. Thanks for watching, I appreciate it. Take care and Atb, Mick
You are our youtube grandpa
maik not blame you. the wood fibers were turned so better to cut a 15 cm diameter tree. looking with attention if they turn around its fibers before you cut it. I also did two videos in my channel, tell me what you think
I'll have a look Michael. Thanks for watching. Atb, Mick
Mick I enjoy your videos. You give an in class vibe. Great job.
Hi Daniel, thank you very much - glad you enjoy them! And thanks for letting me know. Mick
I had the same exact problem with a pieceof oak. it was my fist atempt at making a bow, and that really put me off bowmaking. now I'm hoping to try again this winter.
thanks for the video, it's beautiful as ever!
Good luck!
Thank you for watching and commenting. Sorry that you had the same bad experience as me - but don't give up! Failure is learning, disappointing as it can be. Good luck with your winter bow. Atb, Mick
This man is my DIY spirit-animal.
Hello Mick. Great camera angles as always! I don't know if the log fibers were already twisted (or if it's even possible) but maybe seasoning the wood makes it easier to split straight. I'm learning a lot from your channel and starting to gather my first tools to make my first bow. Wish you the best!
Hello there! All new to me too - no sure if I should have seasoned the log or not but at least it was a great learning experience! Thanks for watching. Atb, Mick
Something you could try is to steam the limb to take the twist out. The other thing I have seen done is cut a line using a saw down the whole length like a score line and that helps a little too. Another thing I saw was you were working both sides with the axe and wedge I would not recommend that. I was taught to do it from the one side just so you can keep a eye on the straightness. Also I believe Texas is right in hazel is a difficult grained wood to split.
Keep up the good work better than when I first started.
Hi there and thanks for watching and your suggestions. I have access to a lot of hazel so I don't think steaming is worth it. Your comment about hazel being difficult to split is repeated by others - I guess that I will make my next hazel bow simply by working down the limb into a bow without splitting. Appreciate your guidance and wisdom - thanks again for watching and commenting. Atb, Mick
I love the 6.5 x 55 weapon, had two of them! shot straighter than any bow, English long bow or not!
Hi Mick, I came across your video. Really great quality. I also make bows from hazel but never harvested it from limbs. I always use the trunks. The risk of twisting wood is less. As I saw in your video you cut the limb from a bigger limb. So twisting is quite usual.
Man i absolutely love these videos you make! Salute from the US my friend and please keep these coming!
Will do!!
hey or channel is great i got a lot of my learning for it thanks
I've had a quick glance at the comments, but it seems no one has pointed out what you did wrong :) It's really simple. Don't split hazel, at least not if you plan on using it for bows - propellers perhaps :D Carve or rasp it out.Doing so also voids the dilemma: 2 mediocre staves or 1 excellent?. I have built some 20 hazel bows in the 3 years I've been into archery - and none of them are perfectly straight. It's part of the charm these (hazel) bows have. I use sidenocks and tillering to center the string over the handle/center part of the bow.
Two more tips/ challenges: Don't include any pith or the sapwood surrounding it, it's the top ingredient for compressionmarks and stringfollow. And try to find find a heavy piece, it matters a whole lot if you want a 50+ bow of any length.
Keep up the good work, both bow and video related
Thank you - what an apt RUclips name at this time!. Great that you have a lot of hazel experience. I have made but one hazel bow - that worked out well and was done in the way you suggest, working down the stave and not splitting it. It's about 85lb draw weight. Never tried side nocks though - I must include those in the next bow I build. Thank you for watching and taking time to pass on your useful information in a comment. Atb, Mick
I'm having second thoughts about the youtube name, if I'm honest. It used to be my Counter Strike nick about 15 years ago, became my youtube nick - nowadays not even his hairdoo is funny.
I just re watched your video of the 85 lb hazel, keep doing what you did then - looks like a very excellent bow! But, as i mentioned there as well, try avoiding any of the pith and the innermost growthring ( or 2). I think you'll see your compression marks go away. It limits stock even further, i know - but i think the one you split would fit the bill nicely. And while you are at it, why not grab a couple?
I only do sidenocks to correct alignment, if that is not a problem, I stick to regular nocks - or even just a sidenock in the top.
I am from Denmark, I lean more on the local bow heritage. Hedeby, Holmegaard, Nydam and the like. Most of those more suited for hunting, and a lot less pounds than any Mary Rose bow. I don't do replicas as such, but I do draw a lot of inspiration from those sources. The weaker poundage allows for thinner stock - some woods seem to even "like" having a rounder back - I think hazel is included in that group. I try to make the square section of any hazel bow a rounded rectangle, if that makes any sense. The working parts of the bow, obviously. I'm told it is the optimal shape for hazels compression characteristics.
Looking forward to more hazelbows.
Maybethesoontobeexdonaldtrumpshairdoo
That thing had aspirations of being a giant drill bit. Well, at least you got a little firewood.
Better than nothing I guess! Thanks for watching 🙏
Though you ended up with firewood, the many camera angles was the hard word I'd guess.
Hi Steve, you guessed it! The making of these films takes way longer and uses more energy than the thing I'm doing. But I hate posting a poorly built video so I invest energy in that as well as the into what I'm doing. Thanks for watching and I appreciate your comment. Atb, Mick
well I'm new n I like the quality of your films
good job!!!
I truly love your videos. The cinematography is some of the best I've ever seen and your voice is very relaxing. You should be a documentary narrator! Thank you!
Frieza Thank you!
ive had a similar thing happen to me. i cut a stave a couple years back and tried to split it and scrapped it cause my blade turned as it went down it. its just the way the grain flowed. though it didnt corkscrew like yours did here
Hello there, frustrating isn't it? I knew that hazel was liable to twist but I didn't realise it would corkscrew like that - I virtually had two propellors such was the amount of twist. Thos twists are still on the woodpile and I still look at them in wonderment! Thanks for watching. Mick
You would be an amazing history channel host!
Thank you!
You should come where I live, there is hazel everywhere. Yes it is perfectly straight without any knots. But I want to find some yew, which I can't.
Branches always have unwanted tension in them, furniture makers seeing it as firewood. Saplings, straight young trunks are a better option I think.
Same happened to me it lookd straight until I split it
Theory: Since that limb was growing 45 degrees oblique, there would be stronger wood on the bottom and weaker fibers on the top. So, one should split the stave horizontally that way when the tension is released it will warp in a straight line, perpendicular to the Earth. The bottom stave will deflex and the top stave will reflex. The reflexed stave will be the one to make the bow out of.
I think it twisted because your split was on the side somewhere relative to how the tree was growing.
Thank you - extremely helpful and appreciated. Mick
Hi Mick
Long time since we communicated
How are you
I just turned 90 in June and I saw your old post , sorry for the unsuccessful attempt to split that stay, same thing happening to me , just did not have the experience to find the right saplings or log , hope you have better luck next time.
Cheers
The yank in Florida
Herb
Hiya Herb. Congrats on 90. I am well thank you. Taking time out from filming but doing plenty around home and garden. It does take some skill to select the right wood whatever one is doing with it. It will remain forever fascinating,
Wonderful to know you are well, how is your 4 legged frend give him a rub from me , gardening that’s wonderful, my misses does some every day here in Florida rain or shine, I call her Mother Natures little helper she is a natural from Finland they love nature there very much
God bless
Herb
@@herbertkuttner9228 He is just a few weeks away from his twelfth birthday, still game for any adventure but his old legs haven’t got the stamina in them but in his head he’s still a pup and my best four legged mate. The garden is a salve for the soul, I’m in it every day. Keep well together you two.
Keep trying! There is a good one out there!
Happened to me before as well.but with another type tree
i think when this stave was just a shoot on that branch sunlight made it curve throughout the years when it was growing.
I had this same problem with a elder. I have never seen a bow made of elder and thought why not? anyway this made me think the hell didn't I just split it on my bench saw? so next time I find a elder stave that's exactly what I am going to do.
Bench saw! Go for it, our distant relations would have used one if it was available! Thanks for watching. Mick
Exactly the same thing happened to me yesterday. Tried a hazel stave and it was twisting like a DNA spiral. Had to set it on fire and go find another one
Timur Gianti Hard learning but give another one a go! Good luck.
You should show us how good you're aiming is
I dont know :) nice video. I think harvesting wood is greatly connected to the moon cycle and season but still don't think it would've made that spiral straight ;) Nice try! Love the camera angles'~~
Hasel has this kind of spiral grain often. Its better to use a bandsaw when you have Hazel. Yiu may not get an Warbow out of it than, but it wuold be still an Stave you can use.
HI there and thank you for watching. Yes, others have said that hazel has a spiral grain - and I found out the hard way! I will just work the next stave down to a bow using hand tools (don't have a bandsaw). Thanks again and I appreciate your comment. Atb, Mick
awesome edits m8 you deserve more subs
Hi Alexander, thanks for watching and I appreciate your comment. Mick
I've recently been inspired to hunt elk in my home state of Oregon I have two maple staves a crab apple stave and a few lilac for giggles I've been blessed to have an abundance of this type of wood any tips for fruit trees?
I have no experience of fruit trees in bow making but I believe that fruit woods are good. My next attempt at bow building will be with blackthorn, a member of the plum family, so I am interested to see how it works out. I shall be making a a bow with a flattish belly and oval cross section - but that's just a guess! Mick
i dont know if you still practicing but if you are...i got a boyer bible vol 1 ((highly recomend it)) basicly not only straightness your looking for but as few knots as possible and you got to llook at the bark pattern ((its real easy to train one pine) basicly the bark fallows the grain and any cuts or splits fallow the grain soo if you notice the bark is not 100% straight then however it warps soo will your cuts and splits i hope this makes since ive had a couple bows turn into trask do to natrual grain twisting and i wasnt keeping up with it
Hi there and than you. Great advice. I have split logs successfully after this one but your advice is useful to me and others who come here. Thanks again. Mick
You didn't do anything wrong. Grain flow has a lot to do with how a stave/log splits. A trick I have found useful even with 8" or more thick trees- when a split starts to run off one side, take a hatchet or machete and lightly pound the edge into the log in front of the split and keep it straight and aligned in the direction you want it to split. Than simply hammer in your wedge so that it splits.
Hello Aaron, it was my first and I probably chose a bad wood - seems hazel grows in a twist. Great advice, thank you for sharing. Mick
⛰️🏃♀️
A little late to the party here, but I'd say what you did wrong was hitting the axe head with a hammer. Hitting steel on steel is a good way to cause potentially dangerous tool failure. Grab a thick branch next time until you can repair or replace your mallet.
Nice video though, sorry the log didn't work out.
Hi Stephen, thank you. I'm having another go soon!
I perhaps would have marked the upper (tension) side for the back of the bow before cutting it. With that diameter I would most likely with our Texan friend have decided not to split it, but to work it down to a single roughed out stave using my side axe and coarse woodworker's rasp. Was there any twist apparent before you cut it? I might find some consolation in the fact of having been told often enough by folks more experienced than myself that we learn best from our own mistakes.
A good hazel stave is on my list for when I can get permission to cut wood in a local coppice.
That first candidate for a stave I might also have walked away from since it appeared to rub against a bough, which can admit a weakening fungal infection into an otherwise attractive looking piece of wood.
No the limb didn't present any clues to me that it had a twist in it - but apparently it is common in hazel. I certainly learned a lesson the hard way but, as you suggest, may be the best way too! Hazel is abundant hereabouts, I could cut ten pieces in an hour - but yes they all may have little problems with them, though nothing that would kill a bow outright. I like it because if I mess up (as per this video) then I can get another. And learn something else....
Will you try making a bow out of a gum tree if the wood is in your area
The gum tree does not grow in the UK. Sorry! Atb, Mick
the wood just had a bad twist in it i split some hickory stave almost no twist be a couple knots
Hi Bill, yes I now realise the limb was twisted at the start and also that, for hazel, it was too small to reliably split. Thanks for watching. Atb, Mick
Hi mick. Have been watching your videos with great enjoyment. Im now quite excited about trying to build my first bow. Was wondering if you could havest the piece then mybe dry out moisture a little then plane? Or does spliting have to be done?
Hi Wayne. Splitting is not necessary but usually done when a piece of wood will yield two, four or more bow staves. If the wood is roughy bow size, I often shape the bow then let the wood dry completely. Be careful though some woods twist when you do this. But if it remains straight then the wood can be dry within weeks or months. Just don’t bend it until it is dry. Good luck ( check out my hazel videos for the general idea) Mick
It just didnt want to be a bow.I have a nice piece of rowan that i am going to try split its the first time for me to,hope that doesnt happen .
Hi there - never thought of that! It didn't want to be bow. Thanks for watching and good luck with your stave. Atb, Mick
Woo, that really shows some extreme twist. You did now't wrong. It's the luck of the draw, sometimes you can see the twist in the bark. I'd guess maybe 50% will be twisted, I tend to saw 'em on the band saw, the twist in the grain can make edged tools dig in a bit, but if that happens, just go for the rasp. Because Hazel is pretty homogeneous it it won't adversely effect a bow too much if you cut a straight bow from a twisted stave.
this post on my blog shows a typical haul.
bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/split-or-saw.html
Better luck next time!
Hi Del, I feel better now! I was gutted and wished I had a bandsaw but hey-ho. I know of some other limbs but I may just work them down with a draw knife etc. Thanks for watching and your useful link - appreciated as ever. Atb, Mick
So, how are you related to David Attenborough?. Thanks for the video
Ha! I’m not, but I bask in his reflected glory!
@@MickGrewcock ha ha ha, I love your videos.. I'm at this moment heading to our local forest to try and harvest a bow stave.. thanks!!
Good luck and stay safe - and watch out for Attenboroughs!
i can testament to the fact that 1. brances do very rarely come with straight grain, 2. you could maybe try to twist it back with some steam. 3. never make bows from even staves twisted a littel as the grain running of the side can lead to some bad accidents. 4. Get the traditional bowyers bible
Hi there Erik and thanks for watching. I have a lot to learn! Atb, Mick
The volume 1 of the bible will save you much trial and error its only ten bucks on kindle, please invest and read it before you get a tillering accident
Okay Erik, great advice - I'll get the Kindle version. Atb, Mick
Good try. There really wasn't any way that I know of the split that twisted log to make it usable. All you can do is try another log. Good luck.
I'm still very new to this ... is splitting how you start your bow from a stave ? Iv yew stave that's not seasoned yet.
Hi Poppy, traditionally yes - most staves were split with wedges and even flint thousands of years ago. These days many people saw the staves into sections but there are those who disagree with that - saying that sawing fails to follow the wood's grain etc. Many split their staves when green - it's easier when green - and speeds up the seasoning. It can of course with some woods allow the staves to twist. I believe yew is okay though. Good luck. Mick
when you do a new video Mick
Hi Michael, I hope to make another in the next week - not sure what the subject will be yet though! Atb, Mick
Start splitting from the middle of the log next time!
Next time try with an Ash tree and not from a branch :) good luck
Hi Frederik, I'm told that a bigger piece of ash may split better - but many others suggest that I don't bother splitting hazel - just work it down to a bow without splitting. Atb, Mick
Lol Well you can use it for a airplane prop
Try a fro.
too bad. Table saw, or a electric hand saw, could''ve saved that beautiful wood maybe.
Oh man, that´s always very disappointing. Hazel often has a rotating grew ;(
+Oliver Bumann Hi Oliver - yes it was. Better luck next time hopefully. Thanks for watching. Atb, Mick
Any experienced bowers who can tell me how to fix a delaminated handle on a 51lb wooden long bow?
Hi there, sorry can't help you on that one. Atb, Mick
Well I found a way but not sure if it worked because when I went to string it, it broke completely. :((tight bond 2 wood glue)
Oh dear, sorry to hear that. Mick
The only thing you did wrong was make the video to short 😊
Sorry 😉
In a video
lol
Oh well you can't split em all I guess probably just bad luck
Guess so, I have some elm to do soon. Maybe I'll do better then! Mick
Did you do anything wrong? one thing springs to mind . . . . your video's just aren't long enough.
Hello John. It seems I didn't spot the twist in the bark and that I tried to split a stave that was too small. You live and learn! Next time I try Hazel, I shall just rough out the bow and not bother with splitting. Sorry that my vids are too short for you! I try to tweak them longer but I would rather post a succinct tightly edited video than something that rambles on. They take time too - about 15 hours to film and edit this one! Atb, Mick
Oh sorry Mick, I was just winding you up, your videos are just fine, ty for sharing.
Hi John! No worries, it's a fair point about length though. Thanks for that, Mick