Front mount vs Top mount, interesting results...
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- For YEARS people have argued saying that putting an AIO on the front of your case is bad... well... is it? Let's test it!
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I run my rad in the front, because it did not fit in the top.
Same
Also same had a 240 on the top and got a 360 and to move it to the front
Bingo. Mobo/case combo left me maybe 3/4" between the case and the edge of the RAM. No way in hell a rad alone was fitting in there, let alone adding fans.
get a bigger case
Radiator Offset Mounts
It's all a matter of whether you want to prioritize your GPU or CPU.
Top = you want your GPU to get the best cooling by sacrificing some CPU temps.
Front = you want your CPU to get the best cooling by sacrificing some GPU temps.
The problem is that he didn't test the most commonly used scenario for the argument. Which is gaming and full system use. The result of that testing would be:
Top: CPU temps will get a lot hotter because of the graphics card.
Front: No real difference in GPU temps, but much better for the CPU.
= Front is always better.
Your comment deserves more likes. Straight to the point.👏🎩
@@Darker_Watersdepends on the CPU. A 300w inter trash will make your 300w GPU sweat bullets.
Depends on the case too. A good case will have GPU intake at the bot and a PSU compartment behind the motherboard.
I personnally use an asus prime case. The CPU is air cooled with fans reversed pulling fresh air from behind and its way better than a 360 AIO on top, over a 7900XTX...
Very true
SFF PCs: it doesn’t matter where it goes as long as it fits
Honestly, that's how it is for pretty much anything that's not a super tower 😂
At least, if you have hard drives that aren't NVME or more than 2 SSDs
that's what she said
SFF PC if properly built do not need an AIO as they can more easily use directed air flow. Bigger cases use air flow as a brute force proposition. SFF build allows for directed air flow to target needed areas very specifically. This means they can, with proper planning, be MORE efficient at removing heat.
i just took my side panel off (raws1) and slapped a Noctua u12-s on to keep cool
No, sff pc enthusiasts know a simple rule of thumb: you don’t want to feed hot air from the lower TDP component into the higher TDP component. Hence, CPU AIO can only be exhaust
"You don't have to fret so much about whether your radiator is in the front or your radiator is on the top." Thanks Jay. This is really the only conclusion you can come to. So many tests have been conducted on this and everything I've seen results where either the radiator on top or radiator in front has narrowly edged out the other. And those tests were no more conclusive for ALL configurations than your tests. Generally speaking, both will work just fine.
My mentality is get the liquid cooled with fresh air. Get the air cooled with fresh air. So I like radiator on front. And under the GPU, 3 intake fans feeding it fresh air.
the radiator would be best served by placing it OUTSIDE your case, so the heat can radiate away in the open air.
I did that a couple years ago with an I9 office prebuilt I janked together. No matter the test, the 10900k would not go above 65-75c in any stress test with a 280 aio
it is funny how true this is but an entire industry doesn't care for it because it would look like a heater.. or in other words a radiator😂
No, let's put the heat exchanger in a metal body and force the heat flow through tiny gaps while parts of the rad are completly blocked which would have done the "work" for free
I have never watercooled, but my logic states the same. However, facts have no place in heated arguments, only egos :D
You would think, but the purpose of a radiator is to have pressurized air move through it to move heat better than ambient air.
It would also be a lot easier to clean out the dust.
From a fluid mechanics standpoint, the main difference between push or pull fan configuration isn't just the "resistance" of the air passing through the rad before being picked up by the fan.
It's also the fluid flow characteristic. Typically, the flow on a pull configuration is laminar, versus turbulent on a push config.
And when we talk about heat exchanges, turbulent airflow is a requirement, as you need as much fluid molecules hitting the surfaces of the heat exchanger as possible, so they can pick up more energy, thus enhancing it's efficiency.
Thanks! Makes sense!
This is something that is not obvious to many advanced builders. This is also the reason why case airflow cannot compensate for lack of part cooling.
There's also the sound difference. In pull configuration the fans are working against a vacuum (reduced pressure) on the radiator side, and thus are encountering less resistance, and as a result spinning faster. Also the airflow is consisting of multiple small air currents interspersed by small pockets of still air (courtesy of the radiator fins). All this cause the fan blades to generate higher pitch noise that is much more easily audible, and annoying.
calm down my guy.
@@TheManofthecross The irony of your name rejecting science is beautiful.
Obviously outside the case is the best option.
except its not pretty
I have one on the back of the case because there was no space inside the case. Doesn't look to bad.
This is only true if the room where the said watercooled computer is in is either air-conditioned or air-circulated.
Had an Alphacool Eiswand 360 running on a FX-9590 in a closed room with a single window and no A/C, and after some time its cooling performance would be no different than an internal AIO's.
Outside the house
Mine is in the window. MORA supremacy.
Great video Jay! The one aspect that wasn't mentioned is - While doing CPU + GPU intensive tasks (like gaming) The GPU will be kicking off a lot of heat that will be exhausted somewhat through the rad when its mounted on top. Meaning the warmer air would result in even worse cooling in this configuration during a full PC workload.
• Firstly, CPUs have a much higher TDP than GPUs so they can run hotter.
• Secondly, CPUs are far from maxed out while gaming. GPUs on the other hand are fully loaded.
my rear top would become burning hot with the GPU under load and the radiator blocking the top exaust, I can't see this being good long term.
the FE card in this video has a rear exaust which would fix this problem
@@Nayah9 dude, my 7800x3D uses like 30-40W TOPS while gaming in 1440p, while the 6800x5 pulls like 200-250W, Dont think all CPUs use power like Intel to fuel a dying star
@@xRaptorScreamx I'm talking about temperature, not power... Even X3D chips get hot despite not drawing a lot of power and that's perfectly fine.
@@xRaptorScreamx Bro you literally didn't disagree with him. He said CPUs are far from maxed out and CAN run hotter. You literally proved his point
For some of us it's "wherever you can find space." I repurposed a Dell T7500 case and the only place the rad would fit is the removable side panel. Had to dremel out an opening, then drill out holes to mount it. It works beautifully though.
Edit: In terms of other component cooling, the side mount rad doesn't change much. The T7500 is by far the highest airflow case I've ever used, and the big dumb front fans move plenty of air to keep everything nice and cool.
Nice. I love PC case modding. I'm currently modifying my BQ Pure Base 500 FX case. Nothing wrong with the case in stock configuration, it's just me chasing more performance and better esthetics.
I have a Corsair Air 540 Carbide and taking a Dremel to the drive sleds in the bottom and putting 2 140mm intakes in their place actually made a huge difference. I was thinking about trying to stuff my rad in the second chamber but I realized it would be a huge pain. I can't figure out why that's never a factory option, I mean there's pretty much nothing but fresh air back there.
"for some of us we're too poor to do it right and I have to let you know how poor I am"
Those big dumb front fans are massive 140s by Delta aren’t they?
The T5500 has similar fans (the same?) and we’ve used one as a server for years, with like two days total system-off time over the last seven years. System hasn’t missed a beat.
With a front rad just make sure you've got more exhaust than intake. Just like Jay said, with a neg. pressure setup you'll pull additional air in through the bottom of the case.
The increase in case temp will be negligible.
If 2 or 3°C make the difference between your system being 'stable' and board components overheating and your gpu throttling, you have other problems to solve than the position of your AiO ^^
The way I had an Antec dual chamber case setup was with a tiny bit of negative pressure, and it could easily be cleaned every other month... I switched to 140's and did some rearranging of the rads... It's been about 2 months and there is next to no dust on the blades, and looking through the fans at the rad fins, and they too are "unusually" clean! Lol! I swear an open test bench stayed cleaner! This is a great post here! Great advice you have provided!
And yet people will argue for weeks on the best paste and how to apply it. And watch dozens of hours about which air cooler is best (0.8 F, OMG I need a new cooler) It all adds up man. I'm not about flushing money down the toilet, but if moving the AIO rad makes your GPU and SSD run cooler, it almost seems like a no brainer. Unless you are doing OC competitively the CPU is never an issue, ever. It is always storage and GPU temps that are a problem.
The question is not really about stability because the heat difference is not that much. The question comes down to the GPU fans. Not all vendors and fan solutions are the best quality. If the 4 degree difference causes the GPU to have to run 500 or 600 RPM higher, then you get into the how annoying the sound difference would be. Nothing that would stop anything from running, but depending on the card it could turn a barely auditable fan hum to an annoying reving really quick. It really depends on the card and the person and if the decibel change would bother them. With a case it's easy, switch to 140s, switch to silent wings or Noctua, add a fan, there are many ways to deal with heat quietly. With GPUs your choices are much more limited and tend to be costly if sound is the issue..
Or have an H5 Elite case with fan that pulls air from bottom already to blow directly on gpu XD
You'll pull in air from anywhere on the case too, not just the bottom. For this reason it's better to have positive pressure by installing bottom intake fans with front rad.
Trash talking shall commence!
my last trash day my barrels were too full to take all the bags out.
bro wants the trash talk because of the SW Outlaws vid lmao
Every time I pass by this one area of town there's a big ditch with a bunch of trash cans piled in it. I'm not really sure why they're just sitting there, it's weird.
😂
I got two bags worth out of my car, Bit of a disaster piece but still plenty of trash to go.
I've always practiced putting my AIO at the top of the case, mainly because all of the air will get trapped at the top of the radiator.
Or, hear me out... Front AND Top.
I have my gpu in front and cpu in top. I have a 240 in front, room for a 360 so on the top I put a noctua to try to blow cool air toward the cpu rad. I have a 10900k and 4090. My cpu rarely gets over 70c (usually when using cinebench or when shader cache is being generated) and gpu rarely over 50-55c.
I’ve always wondered how the ram and such do but have never had issues so idc.
yep, i put an AIO on my CPU AND GPU.
I'm listening!
@@zappulla4092 doesn't the 4090 get pretty bottlenecked by the 10900K lol
Kinky!
I have a Motherboard that has two spots to connect external temperature sensors to it. I placed one of those right behind my intake fans and one below the very rear point of my exhaust fans that is furthest back in my case, pushing air outwards through my radiator. I have a push-pull configuration 360mm radiator and 3 x 140 mm + 3 x 120 mm intake with the 120s comming from the side but only kicking in when my coolant goes above 35°C and even than going MUCH slowed than the fans on the front. - The side intake doesn't change much in temps, but I want to keep it an overpressure at all time. The push-pull for the radiator actually dropped temps a little lower than the push only configuration, because the finns on the radiator are infact a resistance for air and can cause air to get trapped and even shoot back into the case. - Adding pulling fans on top helps moving all the air through. I never tried a pull only config.
The difference between my intake air and the exhaust (before the fan on the radiator) btw is just 2°C.
Therefore it's just another reason to mount the radiator on top of the case to elimintae the chance of getting the burble noises inside the radiator EVER.
What I am far more interested in seeing is how front or top mounted CPU rads are affected WITH a GPU under full load, which is a far more common situation for most.
I want to know the magnitude of the temp delta that rad placement has on BOTH the CPU and GPU with either and both under full load.
Well, we kind of know. The SSD and GPU will run hotter with the AIO rad in front. I suppose it matters on what temps you are already seeing on your system. Are you running an RTX A2000 or a RTX 4090. Big difference between maxed out at 75w and maxed out at 450w.
@@msromike123 The difference is that the GPU might be a minuscule amount hotter when the rad is front mounted, but the CPU would become a lot hotter with the rad top mounted. The GPU would make everything else hotter regardless and graphics card coolers are so over-engineered that it wont make much difference.
Exactly.. sorry to say it but running an occt test to test this topic is just dumb. Like his brain was not on when he made this video or something.
@@msromike123 Obviously, but that's exactly what Jay demonstrated in this video... I'm talking the other way around. Effect of all other components on the CPU with the rad in front/top.
Flight SImulator 2024, placing my 360 rad in front with air pulling i got 15°C less than when it was on top.
Jay, you are exactly right on the fact that "cold" actually does not exist. All temps are measurement of heat. My HS Physics teacher would be proud!
So when it is cold outside do I now have to say that it’s less hot outside or not hot outside?
@@Martin52863less hot than indoors
Even though every temp above absolute zero have evergy, we are humans and our body works at 36.6c. This is our zero. Under it it is cold. Over it it is hot. You probably know why.
I would have to argue that saying cold doesn't exist. It's only heat is dumb. Sounds like somebody just made that up and decided to keep rolling with it. I mean the definition of heat is the quality of being hot or high temperature. Whereas the definition of cold is of or at low or relatively low temperature or lacking warmth. So it's literally saying it lacks heat. Because heat is hot and cold is not. Leave it to a physics teacher to be all complicated and dumb.
@@Martin52863 what you actually experience with "cold" is the heat of your body being transfer to a less heat place (air, liquid or a solid object). This is why you feel "cold"
Top, and I don’t particularly care thermally. It’s less in the way and looks better. Thermally, could go either way, but exhausting the hot air from the radiator makes sense to me.
Yea but it also blow hot air through the rad instead of cool but really don't think it makes much of a difference
@@timmypowers5926 Its generally not a huge difference. Running a front radiator as intake keeps the CPU slightly cooler but tends to warm up the GPU by a few degrees and top exhaust generally will run slightly hotter CPU temps and slightly lower GPU temp.
Wouldn’t it be more healthier for your radiator to pull clean air through it instead of pushing hot air through it
@@timmypowers5926 Air cooled GPUs are generally harder to cool. At least my 1070 is running at 79 C while CPU is another 10 C lower. Both on air. Add AIO to the CPU - and you're not going to do anything good buy putting radiator in the front, only choke the GPU even more.
@@brentvo6662 Healthier how? It’s just metal. Its job is to cool the CPU. The heat from the CPU is exchanged into the radiator and needs to be exhausted out, so it’s either exhaust it out into the room, or exhaust it out into your case.
I always run rad on top pushing out. Hot air rises (it is why hot air balloons are a thing) and heat moves towards absence of heat (see convection) which means in the top position the air is already moving in that direction. So it always just made more sense to me to cater to the natural properties of heat radiation.
I solved this conundrum by having radiators everywhere.
Or none. ¯\(°_o)/¯
Or do the opposite like me and have no rads and enjoy a silent pc.
@@jensv874water cooling makes it silent
Rad in the front means higher surface area of a conductive material along the vertical axis, which means more stagnant heat over time that is more difficult to dissipate.
While the initial air that enters the case will act cooler and maintain a lower temperature for a limited amount of time, over the course of an hour + will lead to higher temperatures in the system overall.
So counterintuitively, the most ideal situation in terms of system longevity (and as an added bonus, GPU longevity) would be a top mounted radiator with top fans being exhaust. A rear exhaust would help as well. Front/side front intakes are pretty much mandatory, and you would be wise to also add bottom intake fans even if a PSU is present in a chamber at the bottom.
GPUs don't deteriorate faster with 4 degree difference. Well, maybe they do. Over 30-50 years or something.
@ you think I don’t know that😡 (I actually didn’t know that)
No trash talk necessary, both have bennifits. Top mounted is ideal for asetek design pumps with the pump located on the cpu block , it prevents cavitation, and can help maintain positive airflow with the exhaust having some obstruction. Front mounted gets air directly from outside the case so no residual heat from other components, however it can warm air entering your system providing less cool air for other components.
Sounds about right when I had my aio(pump on the block style) front mounted, It sometimes sounded like the pump was loosing prime or cavitating, now that it's top mounted it has been silent ever since.
So Arctic Freeze III 360mm on top?
@Mr_Zzzeee yes
So I currently have a setup where the rad is in the front using a push config. We could even argue not just front or top but push or pull. Push worked the best based on the Lian Li Lancool II case because I didn't have the internal space for the rad + fans. It also looks cooler mounted in front because of the way I have my pc oriented. I'm getting a new AIO because my current one bit the dust so I opted to get a new Antec C8 case while I'm at it. Now I have all sorts of space to mount a rad and an NZXT Kraken 360 is most likely going on top with a push config to exhaust the heat because the 2 160mm fans on the bottom are going to cool the 4070 super ti sitting right above them. That leaves the 120mm fan in the back to help exhaust some more heat. Eventually, I'll add 3 more fans to the side mounts and suck more air into the case, so that should really help.
The best configuration for your watercooling system is...
outside of the component area. Like in a second chamber. Or outside of the case.
2-3 year ago I saw a massive drop in GPU temp (Gigabyte 3080 Ti) if I had AIO in front of case (Freezer II 360 push/pull) instead of on top. I run all fans at about 900RPM, and hot air from GPU is removed better with just fans in top instead of haveing to go thru a radiator too. Case is Lian Li LanCool III. So 6x 120mm in front on Freezer II in push/pull, pulling ain inside case, 3x 120mm fans under GPU pulling air inside case/to gpu, 3x 120mm fans in top of case pulling air out and 1x 120mm in rear pulling air out. Best total cooling/silent system I have built. No matter what, the PC was whisper quiet and temps were nice during gaming, around 50-65c with the 3080M Ti and 13700KF. All 13 fans are Lian-Li SL-INF 120. However. If I moved AIO to top of case, the GPU got A LOT hotter....
Both are fine. Looks better at the top.
So you're saying you don't like the front?!? (women logic)
@@jabronilifestylewhat??
@@jabronilifestyle🤦🏻
@@finnguy1549 dw you'll get a girlfriend some day.
Very helpful. I am doing my first AIO cooling build and my case came with 3 front fans mounted. I was trying to determine if it was worth moving everything so the intake is my radiator, which it seems like its not. Thank you
The answer to this is easy…yes!
But the question was … oooh I see what you did there 😉
Running an SI for over 20+ years, I loved your response. Thanks.
Instructions unclear. Trash-talked throughout entire video and got weiner stuck in a toaster. Please advise.
Sounds like a Marine tried to make a hotdog🤣
Unplug toaster.
Apply butter.
Twist toaster slowly.
Gently pull out grill marked sausage.
Pay me $420.69 for the help.
Have some liquor and crayons.
Go to bed.
Wake up.
Do not repeat the prior days events.
In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics! -Homer Jay Simpson
I have a near identical setup to what you have here in the video. 7950X, 3090 Ti, in a Corsair 5000D Airflow case. Main cooling is a Corsair 360 AIO that is top mounted. No complaints about the performance of the machine, it's quite a performer for me and have never dealt with thermal issues with it.
But what if it is on the side!?! *screams and jumps out window having learned the PTA is disbanding (Simpsons)
I have my 280 RAD on the top right hand side in my Core V21, and my 2x120 intake fans feeding the GPU first from the left side.
In addition to a 200 intake in the front and a 140 exhaust in the rear.
ive been eyeing new cases exactly for that reason.
Id want to put my rad on the side, so there is some fresh air coming through it (or slightly warmed) but then it gets blown away by the wind coming from the "empty" front fans
then have top and back as exhaust
For the "Room goes up, devices go up" thing.
Thermal flow isn't based on temperature itself, but the difference in temperature between the hot component and the cool air. So for a given thermal load, it will increase the temperature by a certain amount until the difference is high enough that the thermal flow rate matches the TDP.
So T = T(ambient) + T(load).
If T(ambient) goes up, and T(load) stays the same, your resulting temperature will go up the exact amount.
Main difference to consider is that some components adjust their load according to temperature. So in a cooler room, it might increase the load, and you would see similar temperatures.
GPU puts way more heat into the case than a CPU. The real reason to front mount us because the CPU will heat up quite a bit more than 4C when using a too mount and running a GPU load.
The top mount maybe cooled the GPU more as all that heat in the larger radiator potentially assisted the fans with the heat rising? Since the heat wants to rise, along with the fans trying to push it out it might have caused a form of vacuum assist as it was rising thus helping move more volume of air overall.
Exhaust top mount. Intake front fans, intake bottom fans. Exhaust rear fans.
Yep.
that works for basic cooling but what if you have a cpu and a gpu that are on AIO's ?
you still intake at the front and exhaust at the top but
in my case the cpu is front intake and the gpu is top exhaust as its a good 300 watts of heat and all of that goes out the window if its one loop
@@john1182 stick to air cooling :P
@john1182 Wouldn't be an AIO if it is full looped lmao
Second part, I believe Jay has already made a video on shared vs non shared loops, inwhich the awnser to that is the awnser of this video, which basically changes nothing
@@SabentHD i was giving 2 different senarios so there is no need for the lmao, im well aware of the outcomes on the different builds as ive been building and reviwing my self for 20+ years.
if its seperate loops you put the one with the leess heat on the intake, if its one loop all it does is warm up the ambient air in the case a few degrees, but thats were airflow helps keep componant temp down
Basically; the further from ambient temperature, the more work is required to maintain a temperature difference higher or lower in a way that drastically increases for each degree above or below. The more work, the more electricity it takes, and if you increase ambient by 5c then it's going to increase the amount of work required to reduce the temperature another 5c from ambient to the same temperature as before, and if you've already saturated the devices cooling capacity, then it's gonna increase the temperature across the board by 5c.
And that is the physics behind it. I think, it's been a while, since I was taught this at secondary school.
So minor correction here but “closed systems” are always trying to reach thermal equilibrium. That is to say in the presence of heat all things will heat until the same temperature is reached and in the absence of heat all things will cool until the same temperature is achieved. A difference in temperature in a closed loop system mean you’re imparting some form of energy into the system.
Just a reminder to everyone else that a pc is NOT a closed system.
One thing I'd like to see if the effect of sound dampening panels and how they affect the cooling.
So lesson to be learned? Fan orientation makes more of a difference than radiator orientation. I imagine if you had had a couple fans in the front to bring in air with that top mounted test you'd probably cool down those extra degrees that you had with the front mount
He had. 6 fans, only rad moved. 2:52
or if he had ran them at full speed instead of capping them. he starved the rad for air intentionally in his top mount setup.
@@ronijs19 Right, but what I was saying g is I feel like he would've gained those few degrees of cooler temps if he had had fans on the front along with the fans on the rad up top
@@modru2004 he just ran em at stock speed, right?
@@BigDrewski1000 he ran the front fans at 65% when using the top mount setup.
The timing of this video was amazing, and it came out a couple of hours before I started my new Corsair 4000D build with a Corsair H150i LCD AIO. I was so torn on front mounting that AIO on the 4000D, but all has been going well! Clutch timing with your video on the core parking with the 7950x3d too! Thank you Jay!
0:23 i honestly would think front mount would be better as its pulling in fresh air and not warm air from case
Then on the other hand you gpu gets more warm air.
So you simoly have to get your priorities
another potential problem down the road with front mounting is water evaporating in the radiator and eventually drops below pump.
Also heat rises, so it bothers me with front mounted AIO when I look at it that I have to have my fans intake at the top not allowing GPU heat to dissipate naturally through the top, or in the case of top exhaust and bottom intake, there is a big negative pressure inside the case and air/dust gets pulled in through every hole
That would be a tremendous amount of evaporation that would likely take years.
Pre video trash talk: The pump needs to be the lowest part of the loop. Doesn't matter if it's an AIO or a custom loop, the pump needs to be the lowest part of the loop.
This is not true. The pump just can't be at the top. Doesn't matter if the pump is in the middle or bottom
@@drfeelgoodphd1485 Incorrect, it needs to be at the bottom. Will it work in the middle? Sure, but it won't be as efficient, quiet, or live as long. Any time it's not at the bottom of the loop there's a chance bubbles will enter the pump which isn't good. Show me one professional custom watercooler who puts the pump anywhere other than at the bottom of the loop and I'll show you an idiot.
@ he has literally said in several videos that air bubbles will travel to the top of the loop. air bubbles will not congregate in the middle of the loop. once the air coalesces in the top it will not reach the middle again.
The first rule of thermodynamics is don't talk about thermodynamics.
For me here are only two solutions with cat in the front, without cat top mounted
Your explanation of thermodynamics is spot on! Simple and effective.
So that's why it worked... Built a buddy's computer earlier this year in an black O11, 360 on top, with three 140's on the side, 3d printed a white duct with acrylic windows (storm trooper rave box) from the top most 140 that stretched out to feed the entire rad. Had about 1/8" gap between the duct and rad fans, with an open rear so this "1-in 3-out" setup was pulling the excess from directly above the ram and vrm (case air has to flow against them to make it out). Also had the 2 bottom 140's ducted into a 7900XT (duct mounted to PCI slot covers), with a 1/4 volume diverter to the case, + the normal case exhaust fan. Technically a 4 in, 4 out, with 5% negative cfm.
The reason for the steady increase in GPU temperature during the front mount test is due to the location of GPU temp sensor ( which is supposed to to be around the middle). Hot air coming from the the right end causes the right side of GPU heat sink to warm up gradually. This heat is transferred by conduction until heat finally reaches the temperature sensor which , in turn, will start responding to this heat absorption and start recording a steady increase in GPU temperature. I've tried all configurations with my 13700K and RTX 4080 and believe it or not, the optimal configuration that works for both my CPU/ GPU temps was to top-mount my rad , set the rad fans to intake, modify GPU fan profile a little bit , and set my front fans to exhaust.
that's a bit bizzare, but curious. could it be something about your room? like if top intake gets cooler air than the front one?
@@vsm1456 I believe it’s due to coolant flow being higher when the rad is top mounted. When the pump is at a lower position, the suction presuure will be higher than if the rad is front mounted and that will increase coolant flowrate.
My cat apparently liked to pee in the top fan hole, bricked my desk top.
Was it a Corsair case? Our cat liked doing the same thing on a 4000d
Kitty is mad they didn't they attetion they wanted. Did that for spite
@@mikesunboxing Didn't expect to see you here 😂 but dang that sucks
@@ChandlerUSMClol great product name
I bet you'll think twice now before focussing back on your game when kitty is hungry!
I would still try to put the rad in the top, that way I can have my fresh intake fans running slightly faster to generate positive pressure and keep the system cleaner.
12:19 if there are still many many many PC enthusiast groups, why did Anandtech shut down? Kinda weird since there's still clearly a demand for content of that type.
The type of content that was getting produced that wasn't either readily available in quicker to digest formats or was not so niche that few people would want to see it was enough to generate enough revenue to keep the lights on.
Depends on the PC case as well. I have a Lian-Li O11 Air Mini and the 280 radiator only fit's well in the front and also looks better there. Top mounting with 140 fans blocks the custom cpu power connector I use. I had to put a 120 and a 140 on top to fit it. The O11 has 2 fan mounts on the rear side panel near the front that can be used to exhaust most of the front intakes instantly. Got 2 bottom intakes to feed the gpu then as well. Works great.
5$ on it doesn't matter.
So good. So clear explanation. But it is so hard to beat myths and forums gossip. Keep going Jay, greetz from Germany 😊
And: I was somewhat shocked when realizing that 360x38mm is even more area than 456x27mm (Arctic 360 vs Phanteks 420), but hey, my Phanteks looks cooler 😂
So, putting it on the front just means it will be louder since all the case fans have to work harder to keep the interior cooler. Other than geek benching my CPU it never throttles, not so much for the GPU however. To me this just proves for gaming, you put AIO radiator on top. GPU cooling over CPU cooling all day long. With the bottom fans on a curve tied to GPU temp and the back fan blowing on the SSD on a curve. and the backplane fans blowing in fixed at a rate that is inaudible. Works for me. And Noctua 80s DIY mounted to the 3.5 drive bay grills and blowing into the drive bays. Those exhaust behind the backplane and run on a curve keeping them as close to 39 as possible, at all times (load or no load.) Mechanical drives do better when they are the same temp as much as possible, not so much letting them cool, heat up, cool etc.
This is true in theory, it just doesn't matter in practice outside the hottest and most overclocked setups
@@jprepo1Fair enough but my EVGA 3070ti hits 80 enough and on occasion 85. I would rather not see 84 and 89, like I might if the AIO was in front. Pretty simple, put it where you want. If you decide your GPU runs hotter than you would like, put the rad on top and have good fans blowing on the GPU from the bottom on a curve.
@@msromike123 Buy elite H5 case. I think that angled fan blowing on bottom of GPU makes lot of difference with fronmt radiator.
bought a lian li galahad performance aio, found out before it even got here that it wont fit the top of my corsair 5000D case, really didnt wanna make it a front intake or potential side intake. seeing this helped relieve some stress, only because i like babying my system and making sure everything is cooled immensely.
As for heating up the insides, I'd be more concerned about the components themselves having a shorter lifespan due to heat. Around the 2000s, Dell's Optiplexes were notorious for cooking the hard drives and caps on their motherboards. Many IT departments had to replace motherboards and HDDs every year per each system because they got so hot inside. The CPUs can handle the heat though as they have built in thermal protection, throttling, and are usually relatively tough (except for high end 13th and 14th gen intel), the weaker parts like the motherboard can't. This is why used CPUs are so cheap but used motherboards are so expensive; the CPUs survive but the motherboards don't.
That’s the year 2000. Where dell optiplex was not cooled with an AIO. It’s 2024 now bud.
@@dethriguez They recycled hot air used to cool the CPU from the exhaust back into the intake, acting like a front mounted AIO that blows CPU heated air into the chassis. Also, "It's current year!" isn't an argument.
@@iiisaac1312 Which still isn’t an AIO. Also, it’s almost 2025 bud.
@@dethriguez And what do either of those have to do with the long term consequences of heat exposure causing electronic failure?
@@iiisaac1312 and what does a dell from 2000 have to do with an AIO top or front? Nothing.
I tried running the aio rad on the front but hoses weren't long enough to be downward so i mounted on the top as Intake pulling air from outside, working great for temps, and easy to clean with a blower as the dust goes back out the case
Sorry, but this wasn't a good video. You should have tested also with GPU load. You should have said that "Setup 1" is better for CPU heavy tasks (professional work) and "Setup 2) is more optimal for GPU heavy gaming. You should have spoken more about possitive and negative pressure affecting the tests.
This... My 4090 cooks the inside air temp when running. Without a gpu load, it's just circulating outside air.
run a top config and play a CPU and GPU intensive game for an hour and then check your rad fluid temp. now run a front config. you will see a huge difference in temps. Being 1 to 1, front is the clear winner. no one with an AIO cooler is worried about their spreadsheet performance. and a 2C impact on all of your other components but a 20C impact from your GPU., not sure why there is even a discussion. Am I missing something?
@@ShawnRobinson1stick to legos lil bro
I run a 4090 too. Setup 1 is not better for professional work because after 30-60 minutes, the vertically mounted rad wouldn’t be able to dissipate the heat efficiently enough even if the other 7 fans in your case were all exhaust due to the fact that heat rises. So the progressively increasing heat trapped in the radiator after a relatively short amount of time would be radiating constantly into the system. The gamma would eventually overtake the exhaust efficiency, causing every component to heat up after about an hour due to the principles of density and convection (also known under the Second Law of Thermodynamics: when heat is added to a (semi)fluid (like air), it expands and becomes less dense, causing it to rise due to buoyancy, while cooler, denser fluid sinks to take its place).
Go get a PhD in physics, lil bro
Now what if you had it setup the same ways (front or top) but change the direction of the fans? Like pull in with the radiator on the top and exhaust out the front. Or push out the front with the radiator and intake from the top.
Thank you. By this logic, you have confirmed that I want my rad on the front. My CPU temp impact on my GPU is smaller than the GPU's impact on my CPU in the top rad configuration. Due to the GPU's much higher power draw and heat generation, I don't want my CPU to throttle because I am pushing hot GPU air through it. Nice video
I have a front mounted 360 AIO, and I found turning off the forward top mounted fan, helped internal temps (slightly). When in use, it was exhausting cooler air than the other 2 top fan mounts. My cpu is a 5800x3d so doesn’t get that hot anyway so never really have an issues with temps.
how about CPU Rad in the top... but with Intake Fans + plus 3 intakes in the front + 1 exhaust. Which would be positive pressure case instead of negative.
So my theory for why the temp curves looked they way they did is because the heat generated by the test is causing convection currents inside the case which causes the early temp drop. Before the test starts, the case temps are mostly normalized with the environment, but as soon as the heat gets generated at the intake, the heat is injected into the case warming up the air that rises and pulled fresh air from bottom intake. Overall, the difference was a lot more significant than I expected. Great video
I had some extra fans for my rad (which is in the front) so I have fans both pushing and pulling. It would be interesting to examine the difference, if any, on a push+pull setup. Now that you mention there is a tiny difference between push and pull 👍
Interesting video, I watched this when I first installed my Artic iii 360 aio on my Fractal North. I had to install it in the front of the case with the fans on the front, then the radiator on the inside. I used the Fractal included 2x 140mm fans to the top and used a Noctua F12 120 I had left over for the rear exhaust.
I would have been pretty interested in the push configuration here with those default fans. I definitely want to see that video.
Also here is the AI summary for your video this time:
This video by JayzTwoCents tests the impact of mounting a radiator on the front vs top of a PC case. Here's the breakdown:
Test Setup:
AMD 7950X CPU
Arctic Freezer 360 AlO cooler
Antec Flux Pro case
RTX 4080 Super GPU (used as a passive thermometer)
1-hour 0CCT AVX2 test with all cores loaded Results:
CPU: Front-mounted radiator resulted in a 2.2°C cooler CPU temperature. GPU: Front-mounted radiator resulted in a 4.5°C warmer GPU temperature.
Conclusion:
While a front-mounted radiator can slightly increase the overall internal case temperature, it's not a significant enough difference to cause throttling of other components.
The difference in temperature between the two configurations is negligible and likely won't impact performance significantly. The video debunks the common misconception that front-mounted radiators cause significant heat soak and throttling.
Key Takeaway: Don't stress too much about where you mount your radiator. Both front and top mounting have their pros and cons, and the difference in performance is minimal.
I’d LIKE to put my rad in the top but I’m upgrading to a Corsair 5000D that has the top of the case recessed about an inch from the actual physical dimensions of it, meaning my chunky arctic 280 (rad plus fans is 64mm!!) just *barely* doesn’t have clearance over my motherboard.
Maybe another mobo would have less in the way along the top of it, I dunno, but it’s annoying that I can’t top mount my rad on a new “large” mid tower, when my literal dinosaur tower (Vengeance C70) could squeeze it in.
Glad to see that the front rad doesn’t increase temps too much, because the entire reason for the case switch is because my 7900XTX is turning into an oven and I needed something with better airflow. Now to watch all the temperature gains from airflow be negated by the front rad…
What I'd like to know is if you're water cooling your CPU and GPU, which do you prioritize where? CPU radiator in front and GPU on top? Or vice versa? Does it depend on application? (Gaming/GPU heavy tasks put the GPU radiator in front, CPU heavy use put CPU radiator in front?)
I am so glad you have joined these groups you have been talking about, these past couple of videos you have done i feel are videos you are kind of just remaking again but it is still stuff that I question and wonder myself if I do/have done a good job on the builds that I have done and am going to do. But these topics have been bangers man!
Love those people that say you'll cause thermal throttling, obviously if that were the case no matter what config of the rad, it would thermal throttle or you did something really stupid like block all vents, and even then you'd probably be fine still and the cause would lie elsewhere.
On that note, most people jam their pc in the worst location anyway for Thermal throttle by "heat soak" to be a case due to a front mounted intake rad.
Would love more videos like this though.
It would have been nice to have seen the other fans set to auto as well just to proof your point or to get a comparison.
A video on the correlation between ambient and component temperatures would be awesome to see too.
I run my rad at the top as intake, which goes against heat flow mechnaics, but it works good enough
Front of the case is to far away all components still sit around 30-40 idle and 60-70 when stressed 100% so happy with that.
Could i have lowered the overall temps a little by properly, would it have made a difference no, rather have the hardest to cool component (CPU) be slightly cooler and rest slightly hotter.
I have my 420mm arctic LF3 set to intake on my thermaltake tower 300. Interesting case since it's essentially a top-mount set to intake. It's probably slightly heating my RAM and VRMs, but not anything noticeable. Gotta say though, I freaking love this case. The 4080 super founders card does not have the vapor chamber issue with temps in the upright position. My 7800X3D and 4080 super temps are great in this case.
I’ve always mounted a 420 aio in the front, with 3 exhaust fans on top and 2 intake fans on the back and 2 intakes on the bottom. I just figured the logic of cooler air from the bottom and warmer air rises… so far so good but who knows
Hi Jay,
I’ve been a long-time fan of your content and appreciate how you always advocate for better consumer experiences in the tech world. I wanted to bring something to your attention regarding Corsair's premium mice. As someone who expects a certain level of durability from higher-priced products, I’ve been disappointed with how quickly their mice, particularly the mouse wheels, start to fail. For a premium product, I feel the quality isn't holding up to the cost.
I've seen several people mention similar issues in forums, and I believe your platform and voice could help shed light on this. It would be great if you could dig into this and possibly encourage Corsair to address these issues or improve the durability of their products.
Thank you for your time, and keep up the amazing work!
Best regards,
[Steven}]
Just wanted to add. That besides their mice, I've also had keys break on their K95 platinum 🤬
Excellent video, bro. Personally I think negative pressure is the way to go. As I understand it negative pressure is a partial vacuum, and a vacuum is technically a heat sync. Vacuum wants to absorb heat, among other things.
I have a Hyte 40 with 5900x with 360 AIO and MSI 4090 Suprim Liquid X. Tried different ways of fitting the fans but found running the both rads as exhaust and pulling air in from the back across the top rad and pulling air in from the bottom with a 140 fan dropped the temps 10C over running them as front/bottom intake and back/top exhaust. My 4090 was pumping hot air into the case as an intake so had to swap it to exhaust.
Planning on using a Fractal North XL to run an Arctic Liquid Freezer III 420 front mounted in a push-pull and a MSI Suprim Liquid X 4090 top mounted in a push-pull. Replacing all the fans with P14 and P12 Maxs. This was very informative so thank you!
The temps are slightly hotter when mounted in the top because the radiator is mounted horizontally so the coolant can get dead spots in the fluid flow at the highest point in the radiator. You can test this theory by doing the same test on your open bench by mounting the AIO vertical and running the test and then horizontal and running the test again and I am sure you will see very similar results.
I have a front and top Radiator (both GPU und CPU are water cooled) and I have absolutely no temperature problems. Front is push/pull and top is push. The rear fan is the only fan set to a static speed, making sure my airflow puts the case under a certain pressure to prevent dust and heat buildup. Works perfectly fine.
I think a huge part of this depends on the case in question and if you're using an AIO (like I am) or if you're using a custom loop.
Custom loops have so much more flexibility since you can put everything where it's needed without worrying about the pump as much, especially if it's a pump reservoir combo. AIO's on the other hand limit the choices. I had a MSI Core Liquid MAG before I got my Corsair one. The mag had the pump in the radiator and the hoses were right next to the pump. There was always the sound of air going past the pump and eventually it stopped cooling. That was due to the crud buildup in the heatsink part though.
But I bought a case big enough to allow me to cool either way, I just prefer top mounted.
I tend to use the top config with an additional fan on top and a rear fan to exhaust the heat generated by the GPU.
What I would like to see in BIOS is a fan control that I can make any of the fans dependent on GPU temperature.
Silverstone Raven RV03 here. with 3D printed mounts I used the 5.25 bays and bottom mesh for 240 radiators for custom watercooling. no top
I fricken love your personality Jay. And thanks yet again for the info on cooling!
That is why I trusted my own engineering capabilities rather than random guys discussing on forums.
I bought an Enthoo Pro II case and got:
- a top radiator (coincidentally an Arctic Freezer II 360) in PULL config
- 3x140 front fans, pulling as well
- 1x140 fan for the exhaust.
This is the real benchmark I'd like to see. I can say that my 10900k hasn't melted yet :D
I would be curious to see the actual sensor temps for motherboard components under both scenarios.
I run mine on top, because my case had fans on the front already.. LOL Jay, thanks for this and all the other videos, whenever I have a question I come here first. I can normally count on your channel to have the answer to all my questions.. Thank you
I have my 360mm AIO installed on top and 3x140mm fans in front for intake and 1x140mm for exhaust. It feels very cool in my build.
The slow rise/fall of gpu temp is due to the slow change of gpu temp. If my gpu is 30c and more heat goes into the chassis, the temp probe is inside the gpu so it takes time to heat up the gpu to affect the temp probe
Front rad + bottom fans is my preference. This way the 2 main components that generate heat receive their own source of cool air.
After upgrading my PC in January 2024, I also upgraded my case from Phanteks P400(with P400A front panel) to be quiet! Shadow Base 800 FX because I wasn't satisfied with the P400 radiator support of it only supporting front radiator, I also bought Arctic's liquid freezer II 420mm and installed it on top, now I'm satisfied with it and don't think I'll get a new case for multiple upgrades.
Oh yeah, it still stings, but literally the very first thing I saw when I finished building my PC and installed windows and opened RUclips, was the announcement and release of Arctic Liquid Freezer III videos, literally the first thing, and it fixed the only 2 things that bothered me on the liquid freezer II which were the pump socket, looks like a beetle and the tube colours, why not plain black but a 90's car seat pattern..
Thank you, jay. I'm building my hotrod 1000D obsidian case, got prolly 4000 dollars in parts waiting to go together, in my first custom water loop build.
I Unfortunately went with the fancy Corsair QX series because I thought it would help me with my poor cable management skills. I'm now finding out they might not be the best performing cooling option for radiators.
I almost think you were lurking in my AMD pc builder group I've been hanging around in on Facebook.
I'll keep lurking on your custom videos because I don't think the guy at Micro Center was into my custom loop when I came in there to buy my radiators and pick his brain.
Also me and my kid brother, who's fighting leukemia and in chemo treatment, is wondering how your cancer journey is going. I put your videos in the background to distract us from the health issues. Me and gaberial will be rooting for you.
PS ex girlfriends brother , who I still enjoy talking to, said, "Who do you think you are attempting a custom water
loop. jayz 2 cents?"
Well. If I would like to use two radiators. One for the CPU and one for the GPU. What I would like to see is a case, where I can put one radiator to the top, blowing hot air out, and the second one in the front, but also blowing the warm air out. So the fresh air would need to come either from the back or bottom - but such a case i didn't see till now...
Thank you very much for this video, i lost my mind with how many times i had to read that my gpu radiator was wrong by being on top and what not.
The reason i had them on top is because i assume throwing the 600W of heat a 4090 generates would heat up every single thing inside of my case instead of just throwing it out through the top.
I say pull fresh air in and exhaust out. I do that by bring in air from the back and blowing it out the top. The front is the other air intake and I blow that out the bottom and back. I do have a separator to keep air from being recirculated in the back to the top area.
The temp difference is unlikely due to the placement of the radiator. The radiator will move the amount of air it can move regardless of where it is and that air can only come from the outside. However, hot air "escapes" much easier through the top when using a front radiator thus assisting the fans in getting rid of hot air faster. A top mounted system will let less hot air escape through the front (in addition to the radiator fans themselves). This is because air is very difficult to compress (so we could also install the fan in the middle of the chassis and get more or less the same results. And...yes: we actually do exactly this when mounting a fixed fan! It works great at sucking in new air and thus pushing out hot stuff). Chassis format and grid layout is thus hugely more important than radiator placement. Have mine on top - maybe I could get a marginal gain at the front. Could not be bothered. YMMV.
Assuming a standard layout case with equal Rad space for front and top. Probably top becuase
1. Space, it's the most convenient and least in the way usually.
2. Airflow for the GPU. It's easier to intake cool air from the side than it is the top (hot air rises and all). So having intakes on the side/Bottom and exhausting out the top is the most balanced in my mind for most case layouts.
3. Unless you're cooling an Intel i7/i9, most CPUs nowadays, and especially the AMD X3D SKUs for Ryzen 7000 sip enough power to get away with a 120mm Rad. So a 360mm rad anywhere is a bit overkill for the CPU itself, and it actually can more serve as exhaust for the GPU at a certain point.
So I just built my new PC with a 7800X3D+4080 Super config in the Phanteks NV5. So I have all the fan slots filled to give the case the intended "Diagonal" airflow config (air intakes from the side, pushed up by the bottom intake, then pulled up and to the side by the top and rear exhausts).
Becuase I'm using a 7800X3D, my 360mm rad is mainly there to fill all the fan slots on the top of the case in order to push more air out for my GPU without my CPU recycling heat into the case itself.
I totally agree. Just keep in mind the layout of your PC case. The configuration could have more influence on your personal setup, if the top has a limited amount of hot air to get removed (size of the mash, area of the mesh, glass plate etc). The same should be checked for the front side.
It's not affecting Jay's testing, but check yours.
My decision: 😅 rads on the front an top, self build loop. The front rad is just 30mm thick, the top one is 45mm thick to exhaust more hot air from the case and the front one doesn't add that much of resistance to the case air flow.
My step father was basically saying that an exhaust/radiator in the front is best since the heat can escape from under the desk so that it can breath cooler air. Thoughts? I went with my idea of an exhaust/radiator on top and saw a 5°C drop on the GPU. (GPU oriented horizontally on a mid size ATX)
In regards to the 1 to 1 increase between ambient and component temperature.
Forced convective cooling between a solid (what needs to be cooled) and a fluid (the coolant) is described by Newton's law of cooling:
Q = hA∆T
where:
- Q is the amount of heat being transferred. This needs to equal the amount of heat being generated in order to maintain balance.
- h is the heat transfer coefficient, which comprises several physical parameters such as heat capacity and conductivity of the solid and fluid, velocity of the fluid, shape of the area interface, etc. For relatively low temperature differences, this parameter is constant.
- A is the surface area of the interface between the solid and fluid, which is also constant.
- ∆T is the temperature difference between the solid and fluid.
Since h and A are constant, the only way to change the heat transfer is by changing ∆T. Or in other words: in order to transfer the same amount of heat, ∆T needs to be constant.
Thus when the ambient temperature goes up, the component temperature also goes up 1 to 1.
I have a 360 in the front for intake, and a 360 in the top for exhaust, all fans in "push". Fan curve based on coolant temp sensor. Cooling a threadripper 1900x and a 1080ti just fine. The 40-50° air blowing through my case is not harming chipset, ssd, RAM, or anything else. at all.
Haven’t watched the video yet and I’m fairly new to pc’s. My first thought is that using the radiator on the top with exhaust fans will be the most efficient way to keep your temps down AS LONG AS you have enough intake fans at the front or bottom to keep the pressure in the case positive or neutral. Using a radiator on the front with intake fans means the hot air will be entering your case and the rest of the components will become more heat soaked and less efficient than if the air was exhausted out of the case after the radiator. But like I said, this is only a good idea imo if you can have enough intake to keep positive pressure in the case.
I think that the cooling the cpu will be more effective when you use the rad in the front, but cause more heat soak to the rest of the components inside. It’s a give and take. Do you want more performance at the cost of more heat for the rest of the components, or cooler temps for the rest of the components, but not as much performance from the CPU.