I had the fortune to study conducting in Prague for a few years, and my teacher shared a great story about this piece: Back in the day, Karajan conducted it with the Czech Philharmonic, in his usual manner - from memory and with his eyes closed. At the end of the Largo, he conducted the first of the final double bass chords, but completely forgot the last one! So after an unusually long silence, the principal double bass gave the cue and the basses played the final chord of the movement. Karajan bought him a beer after the concert.
You: "Hello, this is Dave Hurwitz..." My 10-year old son: "You watching him again!?" It's become a daily ritual. The Fricsay-Dvorak is completely new to me, I've seem to skip over it for years, which I see was a mistake. Just streamed it and I was blown away, by the performance and perhaps even more so for the overall balance of the orchestra. I was hearing some woodwind lines I never knew before existed, and I've even performed the work and they were still new to me. And Friscay and Co. also nail my favorite moment of the symphony, right at the 1:20 min mark of the 4th movement, the trombones are perfectly heavy on the downbeats and really drive the intensity of the moment. I will also add that I'm a fan of Bernstein-DG version, even with the painstakingly slow Largo! That's all I'll say about that. Thanks again for another great video, Dave! Cheers!
I love Solti's version: energetic, powerful, rugged and sinuous on one hand, and melodic and colorful on the other. I'm surprised you didn't mention it, Dave. As always, I love your surveys which, besides for being muscally informative, are also great teachers of the English language.
I completely agree with you. I guess Hurwits does not like the energy part of Solti's performances. He also does not mention the Mahler 2th with LSO, The Tchaikovsky 6th first recording with Chicago SO or Moussorgsky/Ravel - pictures at an exhibition. All absolutely top performances. So he does not likes Solti next to the other conductors performances. That's perfectly understandable isn't it?
@@robertjanwestendorp3718 Thanks for your comment. I also love that Tchaikovsky 6th; haven't heard that rendition of Mahler's second. I'm gono give it a listen
Do you know Rodzinski’s album with the Royal Philharmonic, playing the Dvořák Ninth along with Tchaikovsky’s Fourth and Fifth? It’s my favorite performance of the Tchaikovsky Fifth. I listen mostly to that piece in the record, but the Dvořák is very good too. I think it’s an ideal conception of the Tchaikovsky Fifth: it avoids sentimental pops concert prettiness at one pole, and the hard-edged readings by Russian conductors like Mravinsky who seem to want to make it into The Rite of Spring at the opposite pole. I like it because it takes the music seriously, not making a decoration out of it, but it doesn’t try to make the music into something it’s not. Do you agree, and do you think he succeeds with the Dvořák in that way?
Well, now that I listen to Rodzinski’s Dvořák Ninth, I withdraw my question. The performance is OK, but it’s no Cleveland with Dohnanyi. A good demonstration of Rodzinski’s music, but not as much of Dvořák’d. I’ll stick to the Tchaikovsky Fifth here, even though he makes the big cut in the fourth movement.
Ooh! I’m listening to the Philharmonia Orchestra under Muti in the Tchaikovsky Fifth, per the recommendation at Classics Today. It has the characteristics I like in Rodzinski, but here at slower tempos and in a broader treatment. It’s very good! I really don’t know Muti’s work, but this record is terrific. My experience has been that most performers don’t get the Tchaikovsky Fifth right, but he certainly does.
To be honest, this is a work I've been somewhat burned out on for a while now. There are countless recordings in my collection, plus it is played in concert so very often. But as far as I'm concerned, the Neumann digital and the Ancerl are the way to go. Although I did not need more recordings, this past week I received my copy of the complete Suitner set, on individual discs from Japan (including the overtures) and they are strong performances, indeed. Quick story: when I was 16 or 17 I was staying at my grandmother's house on the lake for much of the Summer. I typically would stay up until the wee hours listening to classical music radio. Anyway, one night Arthur Hoehn was playing Dvorak's New World on his Music Through the Night program. Not long after the piece started a large thunderstorm blew in, which continued for some time, including during the Largo movement. To this day I cannot get this memory out of my head whenever I listen to this music. What can be more New World than a thunderstorm out on the prairie of the upper Midwest? (not too far from where Dvorak actually visited, mind you) Incidentally, the recording being played that night was the Colin Davis/Concertgebouw, which is another fine one.
Thank you very much for the Bernstein recording. I grew with Kubelik and Karajan but this is something else. Indeed, it makes you renew your fate in the cosmos, as you say. Great discovery for me. Thank you!
Dvorak's New World is really fun to play. I've done it numerous times. My mother grew up near the little town in Iowa (Spillville) where Dvorak spent time during the summer when he lived in the U.S. It's one of those places that's so small you'll miss it if you blink, but there's a fabulous little museum there that's worth a visit if you're in the area. One of the draws if that museum is the intricately carved clocks that were made by a couple of local brothers.
I want to thank you with tears in my eyes for introducing me to the Fricsay recording - WOW it's like listening to the symphony for the first time. I've completely rediscovered this symphony. This version is going to be next to me for good. Also, if you don't mind me saying, I think Solti's 1983 recording on Decca should also have been on your list. I bought this back in 1984 when I was 15 years old and it's been with me until today ever after I discovered and loved Ancerl and Kubelik. The Chicago Brass gives a performance at the beginning of the fourth movement that really shakes you. I wont forget hearing it for the first time on my Fisher 15" speakers I had then. Of course the entire recorded performance is wonderful in my opinion.
Thank you so much for recommending Klemperer. I was brought up on the Karajan early recording, then moved on to Kubelik. The Klemperer recording is so, so beautiful, like hearing it for the first time again.
Uauuu... Just listen to the version of Dohnanyi and Clevland. The sound is terrific. Such a groove! From first note to the last. The strings magnifying and those solemn moments of horns low register with trombone tuba and bassoon are thrilling. Until today the best I have heard! Thank you Dave!!!!
Ah, vindication! Good to see several of my faves get props here (Kubelik, Fricsay and Bernstein's NY). Would have loved to hear your take on another I'm particularly fond of: Kondrashin with the Vienna Phil, mainly because it's one of the most passionate renditions of the finale I've ever heard. (Kondrashin's also by far my fave in Shostakovich's 8 - need a massage after that kind of intensity.)
You have no idea just how validated and relieved I felt, by you placing the Ferenc Fricsay & Berliner Philharmoniker recording at your second-ever favourite! I guess choosing that audio for my score-video of the piece paid off. As a teen, in the middle of making the score-video, I was so captivated and floored by the recording's sheer clarity and intensity. Seriously, I had never been that impressed since Yoel Levi & Atlanta Symphony Orchestra's recording of 'Rite of Spring' (it's absolutely FANTASTIC). At the same time, I was very put off by the decision to omit the exposition repeat, and I was anxious about it since the score-video was published. However, now that you talked about it in this video, I feel much better about it now, knowing that it's not a standalone error. Speaking of which, I'm binging your videos right now. I gotta watch your Rite of Spring videos after this, and listen to Leonard Bernstein & New York Philharmonic's recording (the original one) while I'm at it.
I'm glad you mentioned the Neumann...he did a very fine video of it in the early 80s, that a college friend played me one evening on LaserDisc! Having listened only to my Dorati recording on a Vox cassette up until then, I was blown away!
I just love Dohnanyi/Cleveland's New World Symphony. Probably my favorite classical CD. I agree that this symphony needs to have some zippiness. I look forward to hearing some of the other recordings you highlight.
Listening to the Klemperer Philharmonia recording right now. This scherzo...whoah. Klemp takes his time, but boy does he ever make those woodwinds sing!
Dave, I believe that the Bernstein/NY Phil is one of the best Dvorak 9th I’ve ever heard. The first movement was a revelation. The 9th is one of my favorite so I’ve heard many version. The 2nd was almost unearthly. It moved me greatly. The 3rd was great but I’ve heard it’s equal (but I can’t tell you who because I don’t have the grasp that you do). However, the uneven tempi of the 4th threw me. I felt it was, for the most part, a bit slow. The ending was back to the tempo I’m used to. I don’t have a score but I bet there were not the rits he took throughout the movement. Overall, it was thrilling but the 4th movement let me down. One another note, I want to thank you for all your wonderful videos. I have an MA in music from a long, long time ago but I made my living in IT. I’m retired now and music is still my first love though. You have helped me take up from where I am and progress greatly. Your knowledge astounds me. Thank you for sharing.
I grew up listening to progressive rock, original meaning not what they call prog rock today, also a lot of Jazz and Classical. Holst The Planets was a big favourite as a boy, along with Pictures of an Exhibition. Gradually over the last fifteen years or so, my classical collection has grown, I've just turned 60. Big fan of Mahler. Started watching your channel last few days and although still listening to Progressive Music, my love for Classical is growing. Still listening to Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Brian Eno, Jon Hassell, Miles Davis and hundreds of others. Classical is growing originally through Morton Feldman, Terry Riley, Philip Glass and my love for Holst still holds along with Vaughan Williams. Love Mahler, Beethoven, Sibelius, Shostakovich. Dvorak, I've had for some time but listened rarely until a few nights ago when I put on his The Wild Dove and First Symphony and suddenly I got it, so beautiful. My copy is Pesek box set that as been re-released, mine is on Virgin but I'm sure it's the same recording with Royal Liverpool and Czech Philharmonic. Just watched this and tonight I'll put this on which also as American Suite, looking forward to it with a renewed knowledge. Just subscribed to your channel, well done, best on RUclips.
Your videos have been in my recommended section for such a long time and DAMN am I happy I finally clicked! As a young adult in their 20's who can't get enough of classical music right now, this is a goldmine. Thank you for sharing!
Super selection. Glad you mentioned Giulini, he generally gets overlooked unjustly. I think his recordings are as good as anyone's. I was surprised when he made your shortlist. Thumbs up! I have to disagree with you on the Bernstein though. My taste for the scherzo is a slower pace. Klemperer once again has it right. Dvorak's charm is opened up in his hands.
I have the ones you presented and I love them. My favorites are: Ancerl live in Italy ´58 the best. and then Supraphon's studio "blu-spec cd". Besides those mentioned in your review I also like Dorati, Kondrashin, Kertesz / Vienna and London, Masur.
Excellent selection and entertaining video as always. It is a puzzle that Bernstein didn't record more Dvorak, as he had a clear affinity for the composer (at least when he was conducting the NYPO). The analysis accompanying his 1953 NY Stadium Symphony recording of the New World is also worth a listen.
Hi David. Once again a fine and very interesting video. I only discovered the new world symphony about two years ago, the first time I heard it was a Karajan Berlin Philharmonic recording. I love that performance, first of all, since its the first time I heard it, I was blown away by the strong melodies, and after the soft and slow opening the strings go padadadadam I was blown away. The Karajan performance is the first one I heard, so that's maybe why it's my favorite. I also have the Friscay version, I love that one too. The Friscay version, to me, seems to show a lot of emotion and beauty in the the softer slower parts, the second movement for instance is really intense there. The heavier impactful flashy bits is where I love Karajan. It seems so slick and on point and powerful, and since I have a rock/metal/popmusic background, I'm a sucker for great melodies of course, and recognizable tunes en snappy great performances with killer sound. That's what the Karajan does for me, the piece itself is much more than just that of course, I also think it are great melodies, very moving slower parts. The piece itself really grabbed me. I went to see it live last October with the Concertgebouworkest. It was an experience to hear It live. Wow. It was also my first ever classical music piece I saw (heard) live. First time hearing an orchestra live. What an experience.
Dave I have to say that my favourite New World is Kertesz and the Vienna Philharmonic. I can't think of a more viscerally exciting or moving performance. The woodwinds don't always make the most beautiful sounds and nor is the orchestra always *exactly* together in the Scherzo, but this recording just blazes from start to finish. Kertesz also proves that a more flowing tempo and a refusal to pull the music about can heighten expression in the Largo. I much prefer it to his later LSO recording.
The New World is very special to me. It was the first classical CD I bought, done by an eastern European orchestra I've never heard of and was thrilling to me at the time and started my love of classical music. I already have Friscay and Reiner now and will add Klemperer and Bernstein, thanks David
I consider myself an Ormandy fan, but I was still stunned how great his Dvorak 9 is with the LSO. I bought it a thrift store for $1 and ended up feeling like it was the best dollar I ever spent. I’m looking forward to checking out his mono account when his huge mono set comes out next month.
I can only agree with you on the Harnoncourt recording by the wonderful Concertgebouw! My first port of call. However, there is a sleeper I love almost as much: Zdenek Macal with the London Phil on a budget EMI disc-very fresh and a terrific performance. As with Harnoncourt, Macal takes the first movement repeat. My intro to the work on LP were the Szell you discussed (have to agree that his 7th was his best and one of my favorites) and Bruno Walter’s late recording. Talk about opposite points of view, but there you have it!
I found your comments on the egregiousness of the DG Bernstein hilarious and your admiration for the Friscay very affecting. One conductor whom I think has done a great job with Dvorak's 7-9 is Previn with the LA Phil. on Telarc, but as you say there are so many good ones out there.
Hello Dave. I’ve only just come across your channel and watched a couple of videos. In this one, your mention of the difficult triangle part reminded me that I was once asked to play it “cold” so to speak. I was 2nd trombone in an amateur orchestra and before the final rehearsal on the afternoon of the concert, the percussionist called in sick. The conductor asked for a volunteer from the trombone section (since we were not involved in the 3rd movement). I can’t remember whether it was me who said yes, or my two colleagues who said no, but it was a very scary moment, just as you described it. Also of note in this symphony, is that the poor tuba player only has 14 notes if I remember correctly. These being the 7 notes of the opening chorale of the second movement, repeated towards the end of the movement. Thank you for a very entertaining survey.
Welcome! and you're very welcome. Yes, the tuba part is notorious--originally there wasn't one, but Walter Damrosch (IIRC) suggested that Dvorak put it in. I've seen performances where the conductor let the tubist play along with the third trombone in the finale too, just to give him a little more. It doesn't hurt.
The train line from Berlin to Vienna, via Leipzig, Dresden and Prague, passes within a few yards on Dvořák's birth house - you see the house very clearly as you pass by on the train. I think the construction of this part of the line took place when the composer was a few years old - I would guess he would have been interested and hence maybe his later fascination with trains.
Love your reviews, Dave. Can you do a VERY underrated symphony, Rachmaninoff 1? The vitriol it attracted almost ended its composer's career before it began. Robert Simpson called it 'a large scale masterpiece', cut out to be 'the strongest by a Russian since Tchaikovsky'. There are some extraordinarily brilliant interpretations too, Maazel's with the Berlin Philharmonic show that orchestra playing like a house on fire, the best Berlin Phil performance I've ever heard.
well, the vitriol was not due to the score, but to the fact that alexander glazunof conducted it in a state of inebriation, thus making it a mish mash. yes, it is lucky rachmaninoff finally regained his stride and became the second greatest classical composter to come out of russia.
Great talk David Thanks. I also swear by your two top recommendations Fricsay and Bernstein's FIRST version in NY. I would also point to Kondrashin with the Vienna Philharmonic and Iván Fischer and his Buidapest Festival Orchestra. It's a rollicking vibrating performance full of Magyar madness . I guess Hungarians understand the Czech idiom pretty well. The secret in Dvorák and perhaps in all Central European musical expression is to LET LOOSE WITHOUT SACRIFICING STRUCTURE. You pointed it out when discussing Dvorák's germanic musical form allied to his innate feel for the folk traditions of his fellow Slavs. A killer mix if you ask me. Keep up the good work. Cheers !
David, I’m hearing the 9th right now on the radio. I’ve avoided playing it in many moons because I’ve heard it so many times. Besides, it seems a week or two doesn’t go by without some Orchestra playing it. But listening to it now prompted me to write you. My favorite is the 8th, but what a great Symphony this is. I even hear a Beethoven influence. Do I not hear a nod to Beethoven’s 9th, in fact? I’m not a musician, so I can’t point out where it appears in both Symphonies. In the Dvorak it introduces the Scherzo, I think, followed with triangle and bells maybe? (I’m buying your train steam release/cymbal interpretation!) You nailed it with the great Te Deum composers! I love every one you mentioned. Your closing sounded like a take on the Schaefer beer commercial.
While crawling on my knees and looking through a bin of used CDs stored below the main shelves at my local record store, I came across the Philips live recording of Dvořák's "New World" by the Wiener Philharmoniker conducted by Seiji Ozawa in 1991. I don't see it mentioned here among the acclaimed. It fit my budget, since I paid for it less than a third of the cost of a cup of coffee at a coffee shop. I don't profess any special critical talent, but, to my ears, this recording is amazingly beautiful, both in sound and performance.
Minor key, but I never thought of it as an unhappy piece. It's melancholy in a nostalgic way, like Elgar. Delicious sighs, not mournful ones. Dvorak's Germanic inspiration has often tricked me into identifying some casually overheard snatch of his music as Brahms. But he takes the "developmental" so lightly that it no longer challenges one to "musical analysis" as Beethoven and Brahms do or did. What you say about trains is a revelation. I have Karajan 1964; Barbirolli; Neeme Järvi; Davis Concertgebouw 1978. I'll look out for Dohnanyi, Szell, Harnoncourt, Fricsay, and BERNSTEIN NYPh. I like how your talk moves from Bernstein at the nadir and ends with him at the summit. Now I'm listening to Klemperer on RUclips.
Talich, Ancerl, Neumann, Belolavek, Kertesz, Kubelik, Fricsay, and Toscanini I have them all. Now I will have to take a listen to Bernstein. And I recall a radio broadcast of James Levine at Chicago ,which was thrilling,
Another great chat, with well chosen recommendations for a work that, in my view, has been over-recorded egregiously. I really like the Bernstein/NYPO(such energy, with the first movement exposition repeat) on Sony, and I enjoyed the Ormandy/LSO performance on LP. Ancerl, Neumann (digital), Kubelik/BPO, Harnoncourt, Szell, and Dohnanyi are all great, but I have great affection for the Giulini/CSO on DG; thoughtful and expressive but with rhythmic acuity where called for, superbly played and well engineered. I just put Fricsay/BPO on my iPhone. One recording that was highly touted in the UK is the Kondrashin/VPO on Decca; it's OK but I don't see what the fuss was about. Any thoughts on that?
I'm also very fond of Giulini/Chicago. The elegance of his conception really synergies with the Mack Truck power of the CSO. He takes the exposition repeat, too!
Wonderful discussion, compressing so much info. I still have a four foot shelf of "New World" LPs in the garage that gets an occasional visit for those versions I can't find on CD.. The scherzo of the Bernstein NY still astonishes, an entire orchestra having a panic attack. Was it Alfred Frankenstein who in reviewing the record said the scherzo broke off the tail of a ceramic cat on one of his speakers? A runner up for Bernstein's scherzo is Silvestri's with the ONRDF. A similarly feverish tempo, orchestra a little frayed, mono sound, but Silvestri had the measure of Dvorak.
Saw your review on Classicstoday of the Novak pianoconcerto. Sounds great. Listened to his orchestral works, wonderful stuff (on the eternal longing is great, a bit like Suk). Maybe you can give a talk about his music? And maybe a chat on Rautavaara (i know you did a talk on the Arcticus symph), he is a bit forgotten these days (already), he was a great composer.
Dear Dave, you have no idea how you excited me with your comments about Dvorak and trains. I had no idea train rhythms (not to mention hissing steam!!) influenced Dvorak. You MUST follow this up with another talk. Thank you so much.
Another sleeper and almost never mentioned: Böhm's 1977 (correction: 1978) recording with Vienna on DG. It's similar to Klemperer's as in letting you hear textures you barely otherwise notice. And great energy despite tempos being more on the slow-ish side. All in my opinion, of course 😅
Boehm recorded it in 1979. I have it on lp. It's a really great recording. Much better is Boehm's live recording from the same year from Salzburg, also with the VPO.
A great performance indeed ! Böhm has an almost ferocious way with the allegro sections, and the WP cover themselves in glory (amazingly gorgeous low strings !).
I can see that Mr. Hurwitz is not going to be easy on my wallet. I downloaded the remastered Bernstein NYPO in audiophile FLAC and ordered the Fricsay. Have yet to hear the latter, but the Bernstein is everything David said it would be. (I'm pretty sure I remember unpacking and shelving both recordings on LP from my days working after high school in a Philly record shop.) Still a fan of the Rowicki cycle, but always happy to have more great versions like these.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for responding. Which do you think are of a similar style, but better? I've hard the Dohnanyi and the Kubelik (on DG) and I like them, but not as much as the Levine. Which of the others should I most hear if I love the Levine?
I would also add Järvi in Cincinnati! There's a freshness and excitement about it, and it is very well recorded! You hear the bass lines in that one too.
David Kelly The same applies to the Dvorak 6th that recorded with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. Jarvi certainly has a special affinity for the music.
Eventually! What's the rush? By the time I get to it another 50 or 60 will have been released, with at least seven or eight new completions of the finale.
an interesting and entertaining review once again. How did you know about the train obsession, by the way? his letters? If I may offer a suggestion from young people's perspective 'sick' means amazing nowadays:-)
Hello Mr. Hurwitz, I watched your video very carefully, I am very pleased that many of my own preferences were shown in your presentation. Now, what do you think of the recording by István Kertész and the Vienna Philharmonic? Kind regards.
@@DavesClassicalGuide it would be fantastic if you could give a talk on the Tone Poems... I love Dvorak's music, but for some reason I find it difficult to get "into" the Tone Poems. I have a feeling that you will be able to provide the key to unlock them...
I do feel strongly for either recording of Tennstedt with the BPO in this work, sometimes the recording quality isn't as good as others, or sometimes the orchestral textures aren't quite clear, but the whole performances are so thrillingly propulsive and ebullient. Personally never been fond of Bernstein, I feel that the NYPO plays like hot fire, but musically it just doesn't move me. Too often I feel like it just don't have enough breath.
Totally agree on the Bernstein 1e choice, the largo is unsurpassed warm en beautiful. So, so beautiful performance also as a whole. Also love the Dohnanyi and the Kubelik. But I can not pass on too often how I think the Solti with the Chicago SO on DECCA has an energy and crescendo moments no one has equalled yet. It belongs among the others absolutely.
I have adored the Kondrashin VPO since I was a child BUT there is an unbelievable editing mistake in the Scherzo, bar 41, a whole beat missing...! It is right in the repetition...
I just listened to the Bernstein/NY Phil. recording. It is a great recording but I found the tempos to be too fast for my taste these days. It worked in the finale but sounded rushed elsewhere. It is just a matter of taste. I own several recordings of it with Szell, Ormandy and Kubelik/BPO being my favorites.
I’m pleased by how often Bernstein is mentioned in these reviews. The English critics seem to treat Bernstein as an eccentric, where he ought to be mentioned alongside the top European great conductors.
I listened to Bernstein’s account, and in this case I’m a little underwhelmed. I like the Fricsay a lot better. The New Yorkers play like it’s just another day at the office, and they’re not all that well in tune. Their Sibelius Second is a knockout, but here I like Fricsay’s tempos better - broader, more grandeur - and the Berlin Philharmonic plays with a sense of occasion. I give Bernstein a B, Fricsay an A-.
One of my earliest classical music memories was hearing the Talich recording over the radio I was totally enthralled. Of course, Ancerl's conception is similar and he has better sound, but I had to have the Talich LP.
I’ve never been able to come to terms with Bernstein’s tempo in the Scherzo. Simply too fast by a third. Perhaps the tempo is a reference to Dvorak’s fascination for trains...as in a tempo one might take if they had a train to catch. 😱
Mr H when you said there's no possibility of disagreement and dispute in your final choices, that pause and grin are just hysterical (my wife wondered why I was laughing so much). To paraphrase W.S. Gilbert: 'And I expect you'll all agree That he was right to so decree And I am right, And you are right, And all is right as right can be!' Anyway glad you mentioned the Mackerras (the coupling of the 7th is no mere makeweight either I think). I also rather like Kondrashin with the VPO - the rubato he employes never seems gratutious and is effective and I particularly like the way the timpani cut through at key points. Cheers again
@@DavesClassicalGuide Another vote for Kondrashin from me. It's exciting. Also for Kertesz's first recording (with the VPO). A guilty pleasure: Giulini with the Concertgebouw Orchestra. I know, it's "wrong" - too slow. But so beautiful - perfect alternative for some special days ;-)
I do hear the continuation of the canon in performances other than Klemperer's. Now that I know what to listen for, I hear it in Neumann with Cz Ph, and Bernstein with NY Ph.
My first Dvorak 9th has been conducted by Zubin Mehta with the Los Angeles Phiharmonic. And I still like it. But we can't go wrong with Fricsay, Kubelik, Ancerl, Sejna, Talich, Mackerras.
For me, Walter will always be the best New Worldian. I love that it was still prominently numbered the 5th when Bruno recorded it with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra. The performance is dramatic with a a driving rhythm. The New World deserves every ounce of its smash hit success, snobs be damned. Dvorak’s most serious, Brahmsian masterpiece, good ole No. 7, bores me to tears. Szell is a close 2nd for me on Dvorak 9.
I knew we’d eventually disagree strongly on something! I actually like Stokowski a lot here too. As with so much of his other work, you just have to remember it becomes a Stokowski composition. I think Szell elicits a performance that is unstintingly faithful to the work’s intent while still being very exciting. I haven’t heard the Mackerras but I will soon - I bought and adore the Beethoven cycle you praised (and the great Kletzki cycle too)!
Thanks so much for this informative video, Mr. Hurwitz! I've been enjoying your channel tremendously. One quick question that perhaps you can answer regarding Otmar Suitner's recording of the New World Symphony. In the final moments of the symphony, Suitner seems to take the concluding fanfare at double time, which was pretty jarring the first time I heard it, since most conductors take it slower and give it a more spacious, heroic feeling. Do you know what I'm referring to, and do you happen to know whether or not it's timed that way in the score? Thank you again for sharing your expertise and insights.
The main tempo of the finale is Allegro con fuoco. In the passage you indicate, Dvorak asks for a slower tempo at the elegiac horn solo, a slower tempo still at the big crescendo initially (Maestoso), followed by a sudden return to the main tempo (Allegro con fuoco) for the conclusion. Some conductors may play it a bit faster than that, some slower, given that there are so many tempo fluctuations throughout the movement. Suitner is pretty accurate, and I like the extra jolt of energy. Incidentally, you can check all of this out easily for yourself at IMSLP online. If you have never visited that site or looked at a score, and have a little time, I urge you to try. You don't need any experience or even much ability to read music--it's just an excellent learning exercise.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks so much for your response! I'll definitely investigate IMSLP online. I listen to a great deal of classical music, and have since I was a teenager, but while I'm able to read music and have often wondered what the composer asks for (versus what I hear on disc), I've not been aware of a cost-effective resource that would allow me to know. Many thanks once again!
When I was 20 or something,I came across Giulini's New world ,then I became a great fan of Maestro Giulini and classical music.I still love Giulini's version,but I sometimes feel there 're some parts in this symphony that are boring for me. Now I really love Dvorak 8th.I feel giulini's 8th is the best for me.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Walter knee how to relax and bask in the warmth, yet never missed the drama in his recording. Had some decent brass work with his orchestra
On the streaming services the Ormandy/London Symphony Orchestra recording the third movement is on mono. Is it in mono on the CD as well? I listened on headphones and could tell right away that it wasn't stereo.
this is off the topic, but would you talk sometime about vasily kalinnikov? such a tragic, short life. but at least vi.i. tchaikovsky tried to get him a job--he was too sick to stay; and i will always have a greater respect--and i already had a great one--for rachmaninoff, who went to the crimea to see v.k, finding him in a ghastly place. he moved him, then got his publisher to publish some of v.k,'s work, and after his death, got the publisher to publish the whole canon of v.k. so that his wife would have something to live on. i love his two symphonies. i was driving along one day, having turned on the radio in the midst of what i guessed almost immediately was a russian work, and probably the final movement. indeed it was v.k's second symphony. i bought a disc with both symphonies, and listening to them makes me wonder what would his life have been like had he been in better health and lived longer.
I wish I had found these videos before wasting my money on so many mediocre or even bad recordings. I will never buy another cd before listening to your sage advice again!
I remember when it came out it had an odd electronic blip in it that I found rather annoying--I wonder of they fixed it? But it is an exciting performance.
Dear David, if the purpose -as I understand- is give us your opinion on "The BEST Dvorák ´New World´ Symphony" (or a least a bunch of the best), I believe you should have include Talich´s 1954. Even more, considering you referenced lots of recordings. You expressed your highest opinion (Artistic Quality: 10) when you reviewed it in your web: "If for some reason you don’t know these performances, then by all means get this latest release, and treasure it". Anyway, very informative videos, and thanks for your daily enthusiastic recommendations. J.
I can still do "a bunch of the best" and leave out Talich. Honestly folks, don't make so much out of who's "in" and who's "out" when you've got at least two dozen or so from which to choose. That, too, is part of the point. There are great versions that I did not discuss (Kondrashin) and some about which my opinion may have changed--the "list" is not a static thing, and the fluidity is part of the joy of listening to great music. It's also part of today's recorded reality--you may love one version very much, but if it vanished tomorrow would we be measurably worse off? In what way other than the generic notion that no two versions are exactly alike? Think about it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide David, I agree 90 % with your reply. But for several reasons it surprised me you left Talich out (I´m not going to bore everybody again with long explanations). Nothing serious, you´re not going to be indicted for that !, ja. I mean, basically NOTHING will change if you don´t listen to X recording, nothing´s that important. The only important thing in music, IMHO, is to listen whatever music/performance feeds your spirit and moves you (even if the cellos are a bit loud, or you can barely hear the timpany....). Moreover, in the case of a piece that has zillions of options to chose from. DH "f it vanished tomorrow would we be measurably worse off?". J: Definitely no !. But inevitably for us fanatics, besides appreciating your usually excellent videos, we enter the game with "our" recordings. And setting aside Talich, I believe that VPO/Kertesz is one of those VERY special performances (like Szell´s Toky Sibelius 2nd, etc) that needs to be heard if love the New World. Does anybody´s life will change by hearing Kertesz ? Not, of course. But allow us to play this game a bit. Best, J.
@@justo9946 I disagree about Kertesz/Vienna, BTW, but I am happy to let all you "play the game." Indeed, I generally encourage it. I simply get a bit exasperated sometimes by questions beginning with the phrase: "I'm surprised that you didn't mention...." If you've got something to add, please by all means chime in, but don't be "surprised" when there are hundreds of recordings of a work, dozens of which may be excellent, that for whatever reason one or another isn't mentioned. Just go ahead and mention why you would add it to the list.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I´m not a native english speaker, and is a difficult task for me to write in English, to accurately express my points of views. Hence, my clichés as "I´m surprised". Sorry for that, and I completely agree that kind of posts are pointless. But I´m also stubborn !. And as you thoroughly mentioned like 20 recordings, I was surprised (I did it again, ja !) not to see a recording that, besides being a very good one (a 10 in Artistic Quality or so), have certain added significance (because Talich probably was THE Czech conductor of the era, very influential on a generation of wonderful conductors of Czech music -Ancerl and Mackerras, to mention two notable examples-, naturally championed Dvorak -I guess he wasn´t the first, but definitely one of the pioneers-, etc). In the context of reviews as wide as this one, I believe to mention certain "historical" (again, sorry) recordings, contributes to have the full picture. Well, I promise not to add another post on this matter !. Thanks for your patience. J.
@@justo9946 First of all, your English is excellent, and I appreciate your taking the time and trouble to write in a foreign language. It's more than I could do without embarrassing myself (I do that in English often enough), so it's an honor for me. I admire your tenacity and I take your point. I would probably have put in Kondrashin before Talich, though, especially because I've mentioned him several times already in other videos about Czech repertoire. that fact could be, at the back of my mind, why I didn't see him as that important here--the same names keep coming up and I do want to be as inclusive as possible (for lots of reasons), but as I said, you are certainly right to bring this up and so I understand and thank you sincerely for participating in the discussion. It is richer for your contribution.
You missed the Czech master, Vaclav Talich. I have the one Suprafon recorded on 78s, and that is absolutely something. I used to have the recording made shortly after on LP, but this one was at a lower voltage. The other I have is Klemperer. I used to have the BPO Kubelic, but Talich wins as a central style performance, while Klemperer's reading has unique insights - as is often the case with him in music you might not expect. For Tchaikowski I have the Symphonies 4, 5 and 6. I have never felt to need for any others. The radio produces nice concerts of them, but Klemperer always works for me in the for a recorded performance!
No I didn't miss Talich. It wasn't special enough to mention. Not everything is great just because it's old. Talich's New World is good, of course, but hardly exceptional.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Fair enough. It's all opinion, and perhaps ours diverge in this instance! I would place the 1949 [78 rpm] recording under V Talich in front of Neuman for example, but that is offered IMHO, of course. Best wishes from George
I had the fortune to study conducting in Prague for a few years, and my teacher shared a great story about this piece:
Back in the day, Karajan conducted it with the Czech Philharmonic, in his usual manner - from memory and with his eyes closed. At the end of the Largo, he conducted the first of the final double bass chords, but completely forgot the last one! So after an unusually long silence, the principal double bass gave the cue and the basses played the final chord of the movement. Karajan bought him a beer after the concert.
Heartwarming
You: "Hello, this is Dave Hurwitz..."
My 10-year old son: "You watching him again!?"
It's become a daily ritual.
The Fricsay-Dvorak is completely new to me, I've seem to skip over it for years, which I see was a mistake. Just streamed it and I was blown away, by the performance and perhaps even more so for the overall balance of the orchestra. I was hearing some woodwind lines I never knew before existed, and I've even performed the work and they were still new to me. And Friscay and Co. also nail my favorite moment of the symphony, right at the 1:20 min mark of the 4th movement, the trombones are perfectly heavy on the downbeats and really drive the intensity of the moment.
I will also add that I'm a fan of Bernstein-DG version, even with the painstakingly slow Largo! That's all I'll say about that.
Thanks again for another great video, Dave! Cheers!
Please give my best to your son. Tell him that I understand completely.
@@DavesClassicalGuide😂
I love Solti's version: energetic, powerful, rugged and sinuous on one hand, and melodic and colorful on the other. I'm surprised you didn't mention it, Dave. As always, I love your surveys which, besides for being muscally informative, are also great teachers of the English language.
I completely agree with you. I guess Hurwits does not like the energy part of Solti's performances. He also does not mention the Mahler 2th with LSO, The Tchaikovsky 6th first recording with Chicago SO or Moussorgsky/Ravel - pictures at an exhibition. All absolutely top performances. So he does not likes Solti next to the other conductors performances. That's perfectly understandable isn't it?
@@robertjanwestendorp3718 Thanks for your comment. I also love that Tchaikovsky 6th; haven't heard that rendition of Mahler's second. I'm gono give it a listen
Thank you for making these videos! This is my favorite RUclips channel.
Wow, thank you!
Do you know Rodzinski’s album with the Royal Philharmonic, playing the Dvořák Ninth along with Tchaikovsky’s Fourth and Fifth? It’s my favorite performance of the Tchaikovsky Fifth. I listen mostly to that piece in the record, but the Dvořák is very good too. I think it’s an ideal conception of the Tchaikovsky Fifth: it avoids sentimental pops concert prettiness at one pole, and the hard-edged readings by Russian conductors like Mravinsky who seem to want to make it into The Rite of Spring at the opposite pole. I like it because it takes the music seriously, not making a decoration out of it, but it doesn’t try to make the music into something it’s not. Do you agree, and do you think he succeeds with the Dvořák in that way?
Well, now that I listen to Rodzinski’s Dvořák Ninth, I withdraw my question. The performance is OK, but it’s no Cleveland with Dohnanyi. A good demonstration of Rodzinski’s music, but not as much of Dvořák’d. I’ll stick to the Tchaikovsky Fifth here, even though he makes the big cut in the fourth movement.
Ooh! I’m listening to the Philharmonia Orchestra under Muti in the Tchaikovsky Fifth, per the recommendation at Classics Today. It has the characteristics I like in Rodzinski, but here at slower tempos and in a broader treatment. It’s very good! I really don’t know Muti’s work, but this record is terrific. My experience has been that most performers don’t get the Tchaikovsky Fifth right, but he certainly does.
To be honest, this is a work I've been somewhat burned out on for a while now. There are countless recordings in my collection, plus it is played in concert so very often. But as far as I'm concerned, the Neumann digital and the Ancerl are the way to go. Although I did not need more recordings, this past week I received my copy of the complete Suitner set, on individual discs from Japan (including the overtures) and they are strong performances, indeed.
Quick story: when I was 16 or 17 I was staying at my grandmother's house on the lake for much of the Summer. I typically would stay up until the wee hours listening to classical music radio. Anyway, one night Arthur Hoehn was playing Dvorak's New World on his Music Through the Night program. Not long after the piece started a large thunderstorm blew in, which continued for some time, including during the Largo movement. To this day I cannot get this memory out of my head whenever I listen to this music. What can be more New World than a thunderstorm out on the prairie of the upper Midwest? (not too far from where Dvorak actually visited, mind you) Incidentally, the recording being played that night was the Colin Davis/Concertgebouw, which is another fine one.
Thanks for sharing this--a lovely story.
Another bang-up job. Dave Hurwitz's channel is a goldmine of knowledge, well-reasoned opinion and sheer fun for the classical music lover...
I agree 100%.
Thank you very much for the Bernstein recording. I grew with Kubelik and Karajan but this is something else. Indeed, it makes you renew your fate in the cosmos, as you say. Great discovery for me. Thank you!
I must say, David, I appreciate your enthusiasm when describing your picks. It is infectious, and it definitely inspires one to check them out!
Thank you! That's my hope.
@@DavesClassicalGuide It's revived my enthusiasm for symphonies!
Dvorak's New World is really fun to play. I've done it numerous times. My mother grew up near the little town in Iowa (Spillville) where Dvorak spent time during the summer when he lived in the U.S. It's one of those places that's so small you'll miss it if you blink, but there's a fabulous little museum there that's worth a visit if you're in the area. One of the draws if that museum is the intricately carved clocks that were made by a couple of local brothers.
Pleaseee we need the Dvorak-Train tunes video!!! Thanks for your stellar, funny, wonderful, encyclopedic videos!
I want to thank you with tears in my eyes for introducing me to the Fricsay recording - WOW it's like listening to the symphony for the first time. I've completely rediscovered this symphony. This version is going to be next to me for good.
Also, if you don't mind me saying, I think Solti's 1983 recording on Decca should also have been on your list. I bought this back in 1984 when I was 15 years old and it's been with me until today ever after I discovered and loved Ancerl and Kubelik. The Chicago Brass gives a performance at the beginning of the fourth movement that really shakes you. I wont forget hearing it for the first time on my Fisher 15" speakers I had then. Of course the entire recorded performance is wonderful in my opinion.
Sure, I totally understand your enthusiasm. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you so much for recommending Klemperer. I was brought up on the Karajan early recording, then moved on to Kubelik. The Klemperer recording is so, so beautiful, like hearing it for the first time again.
Uauuu... Just listen to the version of Dohnanyi and Clevland. The sound is terrific. Such a groove! From first note to the last. The strings magnifying and those solemn moments of horns low register with trombone tuba and bassoon are thrilling. Until today the best I have heard! Thank you Dave!!!!
thank you dave. my fav has always been solti's recording with Chicago. now that I've given berstein a listen I think I've found a new favorite.
Ah, vindication! Good to see several of my faves get props here (Kubelik, Fricsay and Bernstein's NY). Would have loved to hear your take on another I'm particularly fond of: Kondrashin with the Vienna Phil, mainly because it's one of the most passionate renditions of the finale I've ever heard. (Kondrashin's also by far my fave in Shostakovich's 8 - need a massage after that kind of intensity.)
I should have mentioned Kondrashin. It's pretty terrific, I agree, but there are just so many...
You have no idea just how validated and relieved I felt, by you placing the Ferenc Fricsay & Berliner Philharmoniker recording at your second-ever favourite! I guess choosing that audio for my score-video of the piece paid off.
As a teen, in the middle of making the score-video, I was so captivated and floored by the recording's sheer clarity and intensity. Seriously, I had never been that impressed since Yoel Levi & Atlanta Symphony Orchestra's recording of 'Rite of Spring' (it's absolutely FANTASTIC).
At the same time, I was very put off by the decision to omit the exposition repeat, and I was anxious about it since the score-video was published. However, now that you talked about it in this video, I feel much better about it now, knowing that it's not a standalone error.
Speaking of which, I'm binging your videos right now. I gotta watch your Rite of Spring videos after this, and listen to Leonard Bernstein & New York Philharmonic's recording (the original one) while I'm at it.
Thanks for sharing this!
Picked up Bernstein thanks to you. I never considered it as I already had 4 versions but all I can say is Thank you. It's now my favorite 👍
Great to hear!
I'm glad you mentioned the Neumann...he did a very fine video of it in the early 80s, that a college friend played me one evening on LaserDisc! Having listened only to my Dorati recording on a Vox cassette up until then, I was blown away!
learned so much from this vid, thank you! Love your channel.
I just love Dohnanyi/Cleveland's New World Symphony. Probably my favorite classical CD. I agree that this symphony needs to have some zippiness. I look forward to hearing some of the other recordings you highlight.
Listening to the Klemperer Philharmonia recording right now. This scherzo...whoah. Klemp takes his time, but boy does he ever make those woodwinds sing!
The Constantin Silvestri recording that’s part of his EMI box set is absolutely thrilling as is his Dvorak 7th. Truly inspired playing and conducting.
I agree!
Dave, I believe that the Bernstein/NY Phil is one of the best Dvorak 9th I’ve ever heard. The first movement was a revelation. The 9th is one of my favorite so I’ve heard many version. The 2nd was almost unearthly. It moved me greatly. The 3rd was great but I’ve heard it’s equal (but I can’t tell you who because I don’t have the grasp that you do). However, the uneven tempi of the 4th threw me. I felt it was, for the most part, a bit slow. The ending was back to the tempo I’m used to. I don’t have a score but I bet there were not the rits he took throughout the movement. Overall, it was thrilling but the 4th movement let me down.
One another note, I want to thank you for all your wonderful videos. I have an MA in music from a long, long time ago but I made my living in IT. I’m retired now and music is still my first love though. You have helped me take up from where I am and progress greatly. Your knowledge astounds me. Thank you for sharing.
Wow. My two best ones I’ve heard just happened to be your 2 top! The largo in that Bernstein is still my benchmark for that movement
I grew up listening to progressive rock, original meaning not what they call prog rock today, also a lot of Jazz and Classical. Holst The Planets was a big favourite as a boy, along with Pictures of an Exhibition.
Gradually over the last fifteen years or so, my classical collection has grown, I've just turned 60. Big fan of Mahler.
Started watching your channel last few days and although still listening to Progressive Music, my love for Classical is growing. Still listening to Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Brian Eno, Jon Hassell, Miles Davis and hundreds of others.
Classical is growing originally through Morton Feldman, Terry Riley, Philip Glass and my love for Holst still holds along with Vaughan Williams. Love Mahler, Beethoven, Sibelius, Shostakovich.
Dvorak, I've had for some time but listened rarely until a few nights ago when I put on his The Wild Dove and First Symphony and suddenly I got it, so beautiful.
My copy is Pesek box set that as been re-released, mine is on Virgin but I'm sure it's the same recording with Royal Liverpool and Czech Philharmonic.
Just watched this and tonight I'll put this on which also as American Suite, looking forward to it with a renewed knowledge.
Just subscribed to your channel, well done, best on RUclips.
Thanks very much, and welcome!
Your videos have been in my recommended section for such a long time and DAMN am I happy I finally clicked! As a young adult in their 20's who can't get enough of classical music right now, this is a goldmine. Thank you for sharing!
Super selection. Glad you mentioned Giulini, he generally gets overlooked unjustly. I think his recordings are as good as anyone's. I was surprised when he made your shortlist. Thumbs up!
I have to disagree with you on the Bernstein though. My taste for the scherzo is a slower pace. Klemperer once again has it right. Dvorak's charm is opened up in his hands.
I have the ones you presented and I love them. My favorites are: Ancerl live in Italy ´58 the best. and then Supraphon's studio "blu-spec cd". Besides those mentioned in your review I also like Dorati, Kondrashin, Kertesz / Vienna and London, Masur.
Thanks, adding these to my too short list: Kondrashin and Kertesz
Kertesz Vienna or Kertesz London?
London !
Excellent survey. My first recording was Stokowski on a 1950s mono Lp, and I remember the tam tam passage you mentioned.
Excellent selection and entertaining video as always. It is a puzzle that Bernstein didn't record more Dvorak, as he had a clear affinity for the composer (at least when he was conducting the NYPO). The analysis accompanying his 1953 NY Stadium Symphony recording of the New World is also worth a listen.
I was astonished by the Klemperer recording. So well recorded too.
Hi David. Once again a fine and very interesting video. I only discovered the new world symphony about two years ago, the first time I heard it was a Karajan Berlin Philharmonic recording. I love that performance, first of all, since its the first time I heard it, I was blown away by the strong melodies, and after the soft and slow opening the strings go padadadadam I was blown away. The Karajan performance is the first one I heard, so that's maybe why it's my favorite. I also have the Friscay version, I love that one too. The Friscay version, to me, seems to show a lot of emotion and beauty in the the softer slower parts, the second movement for instance is really intense there. The heavier impactful flashy bits is where I love Karajan. It seems so slick and on point and powerful, and since I have a rock/metal/popmusic background, I'm a sucker for great melodies of course, and recognizable tunes en snappy great performances with killer sound. That's what the Karajan does for me, the piece itself is much more than just that of course, I also think it are great melodies, very moving slower parts. The piece itself really grabbed me. I went to see it live last October with the Concertgebouworkest. It was an experience to hear It live. Wow. It was also my first ever classical music piece I saw (heard) live. First time hearing an orchestra live. What an experience.
Dave I have to say that my favourite New World is Kertesz and the Vienna Philharmonic. I can't think of a more viscerally exciting or moving performance. The woodwinds don't always make the most beautiful sounds and nor is the orchestra always *exactly* together in the Scherzo, but this recording just blazes from start to finish. Kertesz also proves that a more flowing tempo and a refusal to pull the music about can heighten expression in the Largo. I much prefer it to his later LSO recording.
The New World is very special to me. It was the first classical CD I bought, done by an eastern European orchestra I've never heard of and was thrilling to me at the time and started my love of classical music. I already have Friscay and Reiner now and will add Klemperer and Bernstein, thanks David
So far it’s been Cleveland under Dohnanyi that’s really impressed me. What a record!
I have nothing to add. All those mentioned are all my favorites. Bernstein NY is probably my all time favorite as well.
I consider myself an Ormandy fan, but I was still stunned how great his Dvorak 9 is with the LSO. I bought it a thrift store for $1 and ended up feeling like it was the best dollar I ever spent. I’m looking forward to checking out his mono account when his huge mono set comes out next month.
I can only agree with you on the Harnoncourt recording by the wonderful Concertgebouw! My first port of call. However, there is a sleeper I love almost as much: Zdenek Macal with the London Phil on a budget EMI disc-very fresh and a terrific performance. As with Harnoncourt, Macal takes the first movement repeat. My intro to the work on LP were the Szell you discussed (have to agree that his 7th was his best and one of my favorites) and Bruno Walter’s late recording. Talk about opposite points of view, but there you have it!
I found your comments on the egregiousness of the DG Bernstein hilarious and your admiration for the Friscay very affecting. One conductor whom I think has done a great job with Dvorak's 7-9 is Previn with the LA Phil. on Telarc, but as you say there are so many good ones out there.
I skimmed through it. I'm testing my stereo setup. Thank you very much. I've got the exact recording I like now.
Hello Dave. I’ve only just come across your channel and watched a couple of videos. In this one, your mention of the difficult triangle part reminded me that I was once asked to play it “cold” so to speak. I was 2nd trombone in an amateur orchestra and before the final rehearsal on the afternoon of the concert, the percussionist called in sick. The conductor asked for a volunteer from the trombone section (since we were not involved in the 3rd movement). I can’t remember whether it was me who said yes, or my two colleagues who said no, but it was a very scary moment, just as you described it. Also of note in this symphony, is that the poor tuba player only has 14 notes if I remember correctly. These being the 7 notes of the opening chorale of the second movement, repeated towards the end of the movement. Thank you for a very entertaining survey.
Welcome! and you're very welcome. Yes, the tuba part is notorious--originally there wasn't one, but Walter Damrosch (IIRC) suggested that Dvorak put it in. I've seen performances where the conductor let the tubist play along with the third trombone in the finale too, just to give him a little more. It doesn't hurt.
@@DavesClassicalGuide i am inclined to think this 'dvorak forgot the tuba part' is hogwash. he was too careful a composer to do that.
The train line from Berlin to Vienna, via Leipzig, Dresden and Prague, passes within a few yards on Dvořák's birth house - you see the house very clearly as you pass by on the train. I think the construction of this part of the line took place when the composer was a few years old - I would guess he would have been interested and hence maybe his later fascination with trains.
One thing that's nice about being a new listener is that all these "old warhorses" are new. I love this work.
A really excellent video - ethusiasm communicated beautifully. Agree about the NYP Bernstein.,
Love your reviews, Dave. Can you do a VERY underrated symphony, Rachmaninoff 1? The vitriol it attracted almost ended its composer's career before it began. Robert Simpson called it 'a large scale masterpiece', cut out to be 'the strongest by a Russian since Tchaikovsky'. There are some extraordinarily brilliant interpretations too, Maazel's with the Berlin Philharmonic show that orchestra playing like a house on fire, the best Berlin Phil performance I've ever heard.
Oh yes, I do plan to do it. I've played it myself and it was great fun.
well, the vitriol was not due to the score, but to the fact that alexander glazunof conducted it in a state of inebriation, thus making it a mish mash. yes, it is lucky rachmaninoff finally regained his stride and became the second greatest classical composter to come out of russia.
Great talk David Thanks. I also swear by your two top recommendations Fricsay and Bernstein's FIRST version in NY. I would also point to Kondrashin with the Vienna Philharmonic and Iván Fischer and his Buidapest Festival Orchestra. It's a rollicking vibrating performance full of Magyar madness . I guess Hungarians understand the Czech idiom pretty well. The secret in Dvorák and perhaps in all Central European musical expression is to LET LOOSE WITHOUT SACRIFICING STRUCTURE. You pointed it out when discussing Dvorák's germanic musical form allied to his innate feel for the folk traditions of his fellow Slavs. A killer mix if you ask me. Keep up the good work. Cheers !
David, I’m hearing the 9th right now on the radio. I’ve avoided playing it in many moons because I’ve heard it so many times. Besides, it seems a week or two doesn’t go by without some Orchestra playing it. But listening to it now prompted me to write you. My favorite is the 8th, but what a great Symphony this is. I even hear a Beethoven influence. Do I not hear a nod to Beethoven’s 9th, in fact? I’m not a musician, so I can’t point out where it appears in both Symphonies. In the Dvorak it introduces the Scherzo, I think, followed with triangle and bells maybe?
(I’m buying your train steam release/cymbal interpretation!) You nailed it with the great Te Deum composers! I love every one you mentioned. Your closing sounded like a take on the Schaefer beer commercial.
Yes, you got the Beethoven resemblance to the Scherzo of the Ninth! Good job!
While crawling on my knees and looking through a bin of used CDs stored below the main shelves at my local record store, I came across the Philips live recording of Dvořák's "New World" by the Wiener Philharmoniker conducted by Seiji Ozawa in 1991. I don't see it mentioned here among the acclaimed. It fit my budget, since I paid for it less than a third of the cost of a cup of coffee at a coffee shop. I don't profess any special critical talent, but, to my ears, this recording is amazingly beautiful, both in sound and performance.
Enjoy it then!
Minor key, but I never thought of it as an unhappy piece. It's melancholy in a nostalgic way, like Elgar. Delicious sighs, not mournful ones. Dvorak's Germanic inspiration has often tricked me into identifying some casually overheard snatch of his music as Brahms. But he takes the "developmental" so lightly that it no longer challenges one to "musical analysis" as Beethoven and Brahms do or did. What you say about trains is a revelation. I have Karajan 1964; Barbirolli; Neeme Järvi; Davis Concertgebouw 1978. I'll look out for Dohnanyi, Szell, Harnoncourt, Fricsay, and BERNSTEIN NYPh. I like how your talk moves from Bernstein at the nadir and ends with him at the summit. Now I'm listening to Klemperer on RUclips.
Just got to end of 1st mvt Klemperer. It has great swing and dynamism, contrary to the stereotype of him as golemesque.
Talich, Ancerl, Neumann, Belolavek, Kertesz, Kubelik, Fricsay, and Toscanini I have them all. Now I will have to take a listen to Bernstein. And I recall a radio broadcast of James Levine at Chicago ,which was thrilling,
I am really enjoying your book on Dvorak
Thank you!
Another great chat, with well chosen recommendations for a work that, in my view, has been over-recorded egregiously. I really like the Bernstein/NYPO(such energy, with the first movement exposition repeat) on Sony, and I enjoyed the Ormandy/LSO performance on LP. Ancerl, Neumann (digital), Kubelik/BPO, Harnoncourt, Szell, and Dohnanyi are all great, but I have great affection for the Giulini/CSO on DG; thoughtful and expressive but with rhythmic acuity where called for, superbly played and well engineered. I just put Fricsay/BPO on my iPhone. One recording that was highly touted in the UK is the Kondrashin/VPO on Decca; it's OK but I don't see what the fuss was about. Any thoughts on that?
See below. It's very good, but not the be-all and end-all.
I'm also very fond of Giulini/Chicago. The elegance of his conception really synergies with the Mack Truck power of the CSO. He takes the exposition repeat, too!
Wonderful discussion, compressing so much info. I still have a four foot shelf of "New World" LPs in the garage that gets an occasional visit for those versions I can't find on CD.. The scherzo of the Bernstein NY still astonishes, an entire orchestra having a panic attack. Was it Alfred Frankenstein who in reviewing the record said the scherzo broke off the tail of a ceramic cat on one of his speakers? A runner up for Bernstein's scherzo is Silvestri's with the ONRDF. A similarly feverish tempo, orchestra a little frayed, mono sound, but Silvestri had the measure of Dvorak.
I agree totally.
Saw your review on Classicstoday of the Novak pianoconcerto. Sounds great. Listened to his orchestral works, wonderful stuff (on the eternal longing is great, a bit like Suk). Maybe you can give a talk about his music? And maybe a chat on Rautavaara (i know you did a talk on the Arcticus symph), he is a bit forgotten these days (already), he was a great composer.
I love Fricsay's 1960 BPO Dvorak 9th to death but I recently heard his 1953 mono RIAS rec and it's even more sensational.
Dear Dave, you have no idea how you excited me with your comments about Dvorak and trains. I had no idea train rhythms (not to mention hissing steam!!) influenced Dvorak. You MUST follow this up with another talk. Thank you so much.
You may want to have a look at my book on Dvorak, where I identify many "train tunes" in his works.
Thank you, I will definitely check that out.@@DavesClassicalGuide
Love your lengthy introduction leading up to the recordings. 12:40
15:50 - Reiner
16:36 - Klemperer
18:26 - Guilini
19:12 - Suitner
20:20 - Mackerras
21:22 - Ancerl
23:39 - Kubelik
25:40 - Ormandy (LSO)
26:45 - Szell
27:39 - Dohnanyi
28:29 - Harnoncourt
29:57 - Fricsay
31:40 - Bernstein (NY)
Another sleeper and almost never mentioned: Böhm's 1977 (correction: 1978) recording with Vienna on DG. It's similar to Klemperer's as in letting you hear textures you barely otherwise notice. And great energy despite tempos being more on the slow-ish side. All in my opinion, of course 😅
Boehm recorded it in 1979. I have it on lp. It's a really great recording. Much better is Boehm's live recording from the same year from Salzburg, also with the VPO.
@@dvorakslavenskiples It looks like the truth is in-between. Recorded 1978, released 1979, according to the lone source I could find on the net.
A great performance indeed ! Böhm has an almost ferocious way with the allegro sections, and the WP cover themselves in glory (amazingly gorgeous low strings !).
I can see that Mr. Hurwitz is not going to be easy on my wallet. I downloaded the remastered Bernstein NYPO in audiophile FLAC and ordered the Fricsay. Have yet to hear the latter, but the Bernstein is everything David said it would be. (I'm pretty sure I remember unpacking and shelving both recordings on LP from my days working after high school in a Philly record shop.) Still a fan of the Rowicki cycle, but always happy to have more great versions like these.
Wow, Thanks Dave.
My favorite is still the first I ever heard -- James Levine with Chicago on RCA. Just crackles with excitement.
Others crackle more.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for responding. Which do you think are of a similar style, but better? I've hard the Dohnanyi and the Kubelik (on DG) and I like them, but not as much as the Levine. Which of the others should I most hear if I love the Levine?
I would also add Järvi in Cincinnati! There's a freshness and excitement about it, and it is very well recorded! You hear the bass lines in that one too.
David Kelly The same applies to the Dvorak 6th that recorded with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. Jarvi certainly has a special affinity for the music.
@@edwinbelete76 I was referring to Paavo!
Paavo Jarvi with the Royal Philharmonic is excellent (the recording though is rather too bright or brittle for my ears).
Could you do Bruckner 9? Pretty please? ;)
Eventually! What's the rush? By the time I get to it another 50 or 60 will have been released, with at least seven or eight new completions of the finale.
an interesting and entertaining review once again. How did you know about the train obsession, by the way? his letters? If I may offer a suggestion from young people's perspective 'sick' means amazing nowadays:-)
Hello Mr. Hurwitz, I watched your video very carefully, I am very pleased that many of my own preferences were shown in your presentation. Now, what do you think of the recording by István Kertész and the Vienna Philharmonic?
Kind regards.
It's good, but not great.
One of my favorite Dvorak "train" pieces: The Golden Spinning Wheel.
Yes, I feel a talk coming on...
Love Chalablala on this one!
@@DavesClassicalGuide it would be fantastic if you could give a talk on the Tone Poems... I love Dvorak's music, but for some reason I find it difficult to get "into" the Tone Poems. I have a feeling that you will be able to provide the key to unlock them...
@@emileswanepoel3553 That's very kind of you. I will do them, hopefully soon.
I do feel strongly for either recording of Tennstedt with the BPO in this work, sometimes the recording quality isn't as good as others, or sometimes the orchestral textures aren't quite clear, but the whole performances are so thrillingly propulsive and ebullient.
Personally never been fond of Bernstein, I feel that the NYPO plays like hot fire, but musically it just doesn't move me. Too often I feel like it just don't have enough breath.
Totally agree on the Bernstein 1e choice, the largo is unsurpassed warm en beautiful. So, so beautiful performance also as a whole. Also love the Dohnanyi and the Kubelik. But I can not pass on too often how I think the Solti with the Chicago SO on DECCA has an energy and crescendo moments no one has equalled yet. It belongs among the others absolutely.
You're really in the minority with the Solti.
Than if I am in the minority I must be stupid?
Szell's Dvorak is great. The Slavonic Dances recording is just spectacular!
I have adored the Kondrashin VPO since I was a child BUT there is an unbelievable editing mistake in the Scherzo, bar 41, a whole beat missing...! It is right in the repetition...
I Will give the Bernstein a listen. Thanks for the info.
I just listened to the Bernstein/NY Phil. recording. It is a great recording but I found the tempos to be too fast for my taste these days. It worked in the finale but sounded rushed elsewhere. It is just a matter of taste. I own several recordings of it with Szell, Ormandy and Kubelik/BPO being my favorites.
I’m pleased by how often Bernstein is mentioned in these reviews. The English critics seem to treat Bernstein as an eccentric, where he ought to be mentioned alongside the top European great conductors.
I listened to Bernstein’s account, and in this case I’m a little underwhelmed. I like the Fricsay a lot better. The New Yorkers play like it’s just another day at the office, and they’re not all that well in tune. Their Sibelius Second is a knockout, but here I like Fricsay’s tempos better - broader, more grandeur - and the Berlin Philharmonic plays with a sense of occasion. I give Bernstein a B, Fricsay an A-.
One of my earliest classical music memories was hearing the Talich recording over the radio I was totally enthralled. Of course, Ancerl's conception is similar and he has better sound, but I had to have the Talich LP.
I’ve never been able to come to terms with Bernstein’s tempo in the Scherzo. Simply too fast by a third. Perhaps the tempo is a reference to Dvorak’s fascination for trains...as in a tempo one might take if they had a train to catch. 😱
I attended one presentation of this symphony conducted by...ta da...Yehudi Menuhin (of all people)! It was a Grand Occasion!
Mr H when you said there's no possibility of disagreement and dispute in your final choices, that pause and grin are just hysterical (my wife wondered why I was laughing so much). To paraphrase W.S. Gilbert:
'And I expect you'll all agree
That he was right to so decree
And I am right,
And you are right,
And all is right as right can be!'
Anyway glad you mentioned the Mackerras (the coupling of the 7th is no mere makeweight either I think). I also rather like Kondrashin with the VPO - the rubato he employes never seems gratutious and is effective and I particularly like the way the timpani cut through at key points. Cheers again
LOL! And another vote for Kondrashin.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Another vote for Kondrashin from me. It's exciting.
Also for Kertesz's first recording (with the VPO).
A guilty pleasure: Giulini with the Concertgebouw Orchestra. I know, it's "wrong" - too slow. But so beautiful - perfect alternative for some special days ;-)
I do hear the continuation of the canon in performances other than Klemperer's. Now that I know what to listen for, I hear it in Neumann with Cz Ph, and Bernstein with NY Ph.
Love so many of those versions, but the one i love the most is vaclav talich with the czech philharmonic
Not me.
My first Dvorak 9th has been conducted by Zubin Mehta with the Los Angeles Phiharmonic. And I still like it. But we can't go wrong with Fricsay, Kubelik, Ancerl, Sejna, Talich, Mackerras.
For me, Walter will always be the best New Worldian. I love that it was still prominently numbered the 5th when Bruno recorded it with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra. The performance is dramatic with a a driving rhythm. The New World deserves every ounce of its smash hit success, snobs be damned. Dvorak’s most serious, Brahmsian masterpiece, good ole No. 7, bores me to tears. Szell is a close 2nd for me on Dvorak 9.
Wow. I find Walter very tired and stodgy--it was the end of his career and I think it shows. No so the 8th(s), however.
I knew we’d eventually disagree strongly on something! I actually like Stokowski a lot here too. As with so much of his other work, you just have to remember it becomes a Stokowski composition. I think Szell elicits a performance that is unstintingly faithful to the work’s intent while still being very exciting. I haven’t heard the Mackerras but I will soon - I bought and adore the Beethoven cycle you praised (and the great Kletzki cycle too)!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Walter's 8th is wonderful!
I am waiting for your train video👍🏻
Thanks so much for this informative video, Mr. Hurwitz! I've been enjoying your channel tremendously. One quick question that perhaps you can answer regarding Otmar Suitner's recording of the New World Symphony. In the final moments of the symphony, Suitner seems to take the concluding fanfare at double time, which was pretty jarring the first time I heard it, since most conductors take it slower and give it a more spacious, heroic feeling. Do you know what I'm referring to, and do you happen to know whether or not it's timed that way in the score? Thank you again for sharing your expertise and insights.
The main tempo of the finale is Allegro con fuoco. In the passage you indicate, Dvorak asks for a slower tempo at the elegiac horn solo, a slower tempo still at the big crescendo initially (Maestoso), followed by a sudden return to the main tempo (Allegro con fuoco) for the conclusion. Some conductors may play it a bit faster than that, some slower, given that there are so many tempo fluctuations throughout the movement. Suitner is pretty accurate, and I like the extra jolt of energy. Incidentally, you can check all of this out easily for yourself at IMSLP online. If you have never visited that site or looked at a score, and have a little time, I urge you to try. You don't need any experience or even much ability to read music--it's just an excellent learning exercise.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks so much for your response! I'll definitely investigate IMSLP online. I listen to a great deal of classical music, and have since I was a teenager, but while I'm able to read music and have often wondered what the composer asks for (versus what I hear on disc), I've not been aware of a cost-effective resource that would allow me to know. Many thanks once again!
love to hear you on dvorak;s train moments
I think I did that.
@@DavesClassicalGuide yes, you pointed out the start of his 7th symphony. i meant on other pieces? thanks
@@DavesClassicalGuide i'll take your word for that.
“I Left My Triangle in Brooklyn” as sung by Tony Bennett.
When I was 20 or something,I came across Giulini's New world ,then I became a great fan of Maestro Giulini and classical music.I still love Giulini's version,but I sometimes feel there 're some parts in this symphony that are boring for me. Now I really love
Dvorak 8th.I feel giulini's 8th is the best for me.
Oswald Kabasta recording is not mentioned. This wrong in War 2 conductor made one of the most exciting recording of the work ever made.
No, he didn't. That's one of those silly cult pronouncements that the Kabasta lemmings have been parroting for years.
What is your impression of Bruno Walter and Columbia Symphony Orchestra, and Arthur Fiedler and the Boston SYMPHONY with this symphony?
Fiedler is very good, Walter--it was just too late.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Walter knee how to relax and bask in the warmth, yet never missed the drama in his recording. Had some decent brass work with his orchestra
@@francispanny5068 Yes, he did there.
Dave, what about Villa-Lobos' train in Bachiana Brasileiras no 2?
What about it?
@@DavesClassicalGuide Do you like it, Dave? I love it!
@@nelsoncamargo5120 Of course. It's wonderful. It just has nothing to do with this discussion.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Ok Dave. I've just mentioned it because you said Dvorak was fond of trains. I didn't know it!
@@nelsoncamargo5120 Fair enough!
On the streaming services the Ormandy/London Symphony Orchestra recording the third movement is on mono. Is it in mono on the CD as well? I listened on headphones and could tell right away that it wasn't stereo.
I forgot to mention: a nine from Dvorak that I really like is the one from Suitner with the Staatskappelle!
Have you heard it dear David?
Of course.
Hi Dave , any thoughts on Kubelik with Vienna on decca label?
Not as good as his DG remake.
@@DavesClassicalGuide thank you ! Keep making those videos ! So much info
this is off the topic, but would you talk sometime about vasily kalinnikov? such a tragic, short life. but at least vi.i. tchaikovsky tried to get him a job--he was too sick to stay; and i will always have a greater respect--and i already had a great one--for rachmaninoff, who went to the crimea to see v.k, finding him in a ghastly place. he moved him, then got his publisher to publish some of v.k,'s work, and after his death, got the publisher to publish the whole canon of v.k. so that his wife would have something to live on. i love his two symphonies. i was driving along one day, having turned on the radio in the midst of what i guessed almost immediately was a russian work, and probably the final movement. indeed it was v.k's second symphony. i bought a disc with both symphonies, and listening to them makes me wonder what would his life have been like had he been in better health and lived longer.
I did already.
I wish I had found these videos before wasting my money on so many mediocre or even bad recordings. I will never buy another cd before listening to your sage advice again!
Glad I could help!
Is there a recording, where the conductor actually observes the rest in bar 5 of the opening. I am desperately searching for one.
I feel one of the greatest recordings of the new world symphony is George Solti with the Chicago symphony orch
I remember when it came out it had an odd electronic blip in it that I found rather annoying--I wonder of they fixed it? But it is an exciting performance.
@@DavesClassicalGuide As for Japanese edition CD, I believe it's fixed (That's the only version I own).
Dear David, if the purpose -as I understand- is give us your opinion on "The BEST Dvorák ´New World´ Symphony" (or a least a bunch of the best), I believe you should have include Talich´s 1954. Even more, considering you referenced lots of recordings. You expressed your highest opinion (Artistic Quality: 10) when you reviewed it in your web: "If for some reason you don’t know these performances, then by all means get this latest release, and treasure it". Anyway, very informative videos, and thanks for your daily enthusiastic recommendations. J.
I can still do "a bunch of the best" and leave out Talich. Honestly folks, don't make so much out of who's "in" and who's "out" when you've got at least two dozen or so from which to choose. That, too, is part of the point. There are great versions that I did not discuss (Kondrashin) and some about which my opinion may have changed--the "list" is not a static thing, and the fluidity is part of the joy of listening to great music. It's also part of today's recorded reality--you may love one version very much, but if it vanished tomorrow would we be measurably worse off? In what way other than the generic notion that no two versions are exactly alike? Think about it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide David, I agree 90 % with your reply. But for several reasons it surprised me you left Talich out (I´m not going to bore everybody again with long explanations). Nothing serious, you´re not going to be indicted for that !, ja. I mean, basically NOTHING will change if you don´t listen to X recording, nothing´s that important. The only important thing in music, IMHO, is to listen whatever music/performance feeds your spirit and moves you (even if the cellos are a bit loud, or you can barely hear the timpany....). Moreover, in the case of a piece that has zillions of options to chose from. DH "f it vanished tomorrow would we be measurably worse off?". J: Definitely no !. But inevitably for us fanatics, besides appreciating your usually excellent videos, we enter the game with "our" recordings. And setting aside Talich, I believe that VPO/Kertesz is one of those VERY special performances (like Szell´s Toky Sibelius 2nd, etc) that needs to be heard if love the New World. Does anybody´s life will change by hearing Kertesz ? Not, of course. But allow us to play this game a bit. Best, J.
@@justo9946 I disagree about Kertesz/Vienna, BTW, but I am happy to let all you "play the game." Indeed, I generally encourage it. I simply get a bit exasperated sometimes by questions beginning with the phrase: "I'm surprised that you didn't mention...." If you've got something to add, please by all means chime in, but don't be "surprised" when there are hundreds of recordings of a work, dozens of which may be excellent, that for whatever reason one or another isn't mentioned. Just go ahead and mention why you would add it to the list.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I´m not a native english speaker, and is a difficult task for me to write in English, to accurately express my points of views. Hence, my clichés as "I´m surprised". Sorry for that, and I completely agree that kind of posts are pointless. But I´m also stubborn !. And as you thoroughly mentioned like 20 recordings, I was surprised (I did it again, ja !) not to see a recording that, besides being a very good one (a 10 in Artistic Quality or so), have certain added significance (because Talich probably was THE Czech conductor of the era, very influential on a generation of wonderful conductors of Czech music -Ancerl and Mackerras, to mention two notable examples-, naturally championed Dvorak -I guess he wasn´t the first, but definitely one of the pioneers-, etc). In the context of reviews as wide as this one, I believe to mention certain "historical" (again, sorry) recordings, contributes to have the full picture. Well, I promise not to add another post on this matter !. Thanks for your patience. J.
@@justo9946 First of all, your English is excellent, and I appreciate your taking the time and trouble to write in a foreign language. It's more than I could do without embarrassing myself (I do that in English often enough), so it's an honor for me. I admire your tenacity and I take your point. I would probably have put in Kondrashin before Talich, though, especially because I've mentioned him several times already in other videos about Czech repertoire. that fact could be, at the back of my mind, why I didn't see him as that important here--the same names keep coming up and I do want to be as inclusive as possible (for lots of reasons), but as I said, you are certainly right to bring this up and so I understand and thank you sincerely for participating in the discussion. It is richer for your contribution.
You missed the Czech master, Vaclav Talich. I have the one Suprafon recorded on 78s, and that is absolutely something. I used to have the recording made shortly after on LP, but this one was at a lower voltage.
The other I have is Klemperer. I used to have the BPO Kubelic, but Talich wins as a central style performance, while Klemperer's reading has unique insights - as is often the case with him in music you might not expect. For Tchaikowski I have the Symphonies 4, 5 and 6. I have never felt to need for any others. The radio produces nice concerts of them, but Klemperer always works for me in the for a recorded performance!
No I didn't miss Talich. It wasn't special enough to mention. Not everything is great just because it's old. Talich's New World is good, of course, but hardly exceptional.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Fair enough. It's all opinion, and perhaps ours diverge in this instance!
I would place the 1949 [78 rpm] recording under V Talich in front of Neuman for example, but that is offered IMHO, of course.
Best wishes from George
What do you think of Dudamel's version. He recorded a dvd of the New world a few years ago.
I haven't seen it.