Joseph Smith's Seer Stone
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- Much has been discussed about the various seer stones that Joseph Smith had and used to translate the Book of Mormon. I find it fascinating that Christians as well as many other religions believe in scripture that contains stories of stones, gems and jewels with special properties and yet when the same thing is used in more modern times, many people find it odd or strange. This video discusses exactly what these stones were, how they worked, where Joseph got them and much more.
You weave geology, etymology, biology, and history together very well!
The gift of translation is most remarkable.
I grew up in the church, and spent many years deeply studying a variety of gospel topics, so I think I can humbly and truthfully say that I know a lot about many different church-related subjects. But this video totally blew me away! 🤯 There were lots of things you said that I didn't know before, so I'm going to watch it a second time now, to make sure I caught it all, and then go through and verify it all for myself. 🤩 Thanks for making this excellent video!
Great video. Thanks for taking the time to share. On the subject of stones its Interesting that the Lord told Noah in Genesis 6:16 - A "window" shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; if you click on the word window there is this statement: HEB tsohar; some rabbis believed it was a precious stone that shone in the ark. A few years later the Brother of Jared comes along and is commanded to build small ships and the Lord says: "For behold, ye cannot have windows, for they will be dashed in pieces". It is believed the Brother of Jared KNEW that stones should be molten out of rock for the Lord to enlighten as had been done before... The Bible translation isn't as CLEAR as the BofM but we see another pattern of how the Lord used stones.
I'm a life long member and true believer. I've strayed away from the church when I was a younger man, but I always believed. Having said all that, it is really funny to see the pictures or paintings of Joseph Smith with his head buried in his top hat. It just looks odd. I can believe it all and still think it's kinda weird.
Many weird things can also be true! :)
Is it weird to shine your cell phone from light so u can see the screen better?
sometimes I think about the ancestors that have come before is, looking and watching us here on earth, also our guardian angels watching us look into our little glass stones (phones), and I think, boy it must look pretty weird to them how we're all looking into our little devices, receiving messages.
How many items have we put our faces up on to see pictures that block light? Is this any different?
The Lord Jesus Christ spitted on the ground and plastered that paste into the blind man's eyes and told him: "Go wash yourself in the tank of Siloeh and thou shalt see..." Weird, huh ? Couldn't the Master just had imposed his hands onto the blind man's head, and restored his vision ? Certainly. Some of us, 21st Century, pos COVID19, Purel generation, could even sneer : Ugh... How anti hygienic ! It didn't matter: the blind man was obedient, and for doing so, he was blessed with his vision ! When we try to bring every single miracle from the Lord into our limited procedural sphere, we miss the testimony of the Spirit, who testifies of its truthfulness.
I’m always a little amused at those who feel the seer stones are weird yet they will spend hours staring into a man made “seer stone” everyday as they use their cell phones.
If God can give man the ability to create our smooth glass cell phones of course He could give Joseph (and others) the ability to read His words from a stone. It all seems so logical to me knowing He is all powerful.
Also when the sun is shining brightly we can’t see our cell phones clearly either🧐
Good point!!!!!
You have just totally changed the way I look at cell phones lol
@@theephraimite we don’t know all the facts and neither do you. you don’t have to believe that Joseph used the seer stone to receive revelations. Just because you don’t believe that it doesn’t make the story false. Whatever the means of translating the book were doesn’t really matter. We have it and there’s a plenty of evidence that it’s a scripture and the Lord has used it to restore the gospel through his prophet Joseph.
It didn't work to find buried treasure--it got him tossed in jail--and the same magic stone was used to translate the book of mormon.
@@Tova-Barin Good point made. I think you prove the point at least to me. I have an experience too sacred to relate that I will probably only pass on to my descendants that the prophet Joseph Smith was indeed the Lord's mouthpiece and when people scoff and do their thing, the only thing I have to do is tell myself: Remember that day and I am fine. Thank you for sharing your testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith. I make no apologies.
A Urim & Thumin in the form of spectacles, a simple brown stone, Joseph using a hat as part of the transliteration…..it doesn’t matter at all. The only thing that DOES matter is that the Book of Mormon is true scripture from God and that every single person can and will find this out for themselves if they are humble and sincere. Great video!
The first step in accepting "these strange truths" is in having been given an undeniable testimony. The trust in THAT leads to having faith in the rest. Fpr ME, that lead to other testimonies and etc.
Makes sense to me that God provides tangible objects for us to use to help strengthen our faith. Moses rod, clay Jesus formed, the Liahona, the brass serpent, consecrated oil, etc., etc., etc. all help/helped strengthen faith to work miracles!
I’m still trying to wrap my mind around this… but I read your comment and felt chills. Awesome.
Yes, God gave us that tendency so it makes sense he would use it.
@@artisticdreamer2429 👍
Yet Joseph Smith is the only one that used these “objects” to con people.
Very educational brother, thanks!
I was reading "The History of the Church", a collection of about 14 volumes that goes over church history. At one point Moroni goes to Joseph Smith while he is walking somewhere, tells Joseph that God wants to talk to him, and hands him the Urim and Thummim. In my mind it was like Moroni handed Joseph a phone and said you have a phone call.
😂
It's amazing that we have technology that literally can translate languages at the palm of our hands and this generation doubts the translation process of the Book of Mormon.
Okay, let's see you translate ancient Japanese with a rock? Remember, don't doubt!
Completely unrelated: my puppy thinks it’s cool to swallow rocks. 😂
Lol
Fascinating! I always learn things I didn't know before with your videos! Many thanks!
I'd like to hear from some Melchizedic priesthood holders what it's like for them to give blessings of comfort and instruction.
I think there's a direct parallel there to what Joseph did in translating the scriptures.
I've had some interesting and different experiences recently in this regard.
With one blessing I gave recently, I had the first letter of a sentence appear in my mind, with a badly blurred line of writing after it. When I started speaking that first letter, the rest of the words appeared as I needed to speak them.
In most cases, I get feelings I need to try and articulate, or I get images of ideas or things or events (in various degrees of fuzziness) that I then have to put into words. It flows as I need it, and I kind of get stuck on one point until I express it adequately, then the next point flows in.
I think these experiences relate fairly closely to what Joseph would've experienced. I'm confident that as I get more worthy, the fuzzy images or ideas or words (etc) will become clearer and more easy to describe and express. I suspect the same sort of thing would've happened to Joseph.
Joseph Fielding Smith was the church historian for 60 years as well as the 10th Prophet. He said Joseph only used a Urim & Thummim. The seer stone was not used. He has more credibility to me than Whitmer who became an apostate.
can't wait for you to make some of the other videos you mentioned in this video!
Interesting article. I am wondering where you got the information. Of course I know of the urim and thumin, and I had heard about Joseph finding a seer a stone, but I did not know any more than that about it. I used to look for stones that might have useful properties. I asked the Lord about getting a seer stone and he said to me that if I had needed one, he would have given me one. I have never needed one. He gave me the gift of revelation and vision and if I want to know something I just have to ask and I will have a revelation or see a vision. But the Lord told me how stones work. Everything is light energy which vibrates at different frequencies. Gold, especially stores energy and writing also contains energy which radiate light that with the use of the urim and thumin can be amplified and cause the pineal gland to receive the energy which the mind can interpret. So if the writer is using the Urim and thumin to convey the meaning of the writing, it is stored in the metal and the translator receives the understanding by looking through the stones. As far aa the translation of the book of Mormon, no, the writings did not magically turn into English. It is like what the Lord told Oliver. He was expecting the words to change into English but the Lord told him to work it out in his mind and when it was correct, he would get a burning in his bosom. I have had the gift of revelation since I was 12, but I did not get the gift of vision until I was 34. After Joseph learned to read the language, he did not need the urim and thumin anymore.
Love this explanation!
Thank you for making these videos! So interesting!👌🏻
I liked the image of the stone with “it came to pass” on it.. I imagine reading words straight from God/ heaven scrolling across a stone. Would be really exciting.
I share your view that these are fascinating pieces of history and incredible tools.
I read that Brigham Young stated this: "Joseph Smith, Jr. said, every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness.” (Prophet Brigham Young, “History of Brigham Young,” Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star, v. 26, February 20, 1864:
What are your thoughts? Can we find our own seer stones and use them in our mortal lives, if we qualify through ridding ourselves of wickedness?
I guess that makes sense... eventually we'll receive a white stone with a new name on it-- or at least those who inherit the celestial kingdom. That's a really interesting statement by Young.
@@terianderson7951 Why, your comment isn't strange at all. I don't know why some people think that Mormon beliefs are weird.
I didn't realize that Mormons were new age, cool!
This is AWESOME ❤️. I never knew it! I mean so many details were new to me. I think it is really cool and gives me hope that we won't have any technology but instead we will use this amazing stuff. (I know many people vote for the technology in eternity....but to me it seems more like hell)
Thanks for this
Another amazing video!!! Thank you so much!
Thank you for crating this video about Seer stones and for their use and history.
I hadn't noticed it before but when you quoted the verse in 2 Nephi 27:20 about "...I am able to do Mine Own Work; wherefore thou shalt Read the words that I shall Give thee." (capitalization for emphasis), I (like many others) assumed that when the Lord had Joseph Smith Translate the rest of the Book of Mormon that Joseph would be reading it from the plates themselves. Perhaps he had started out reading from the characters as mentioned in the Gold Plates from the Lost Manuscripts, but later it was enough for him to follow the directions from God, through the Holy Spirit.
Also the part of this verse that talks about "I am Able to do Mine own work...", reminds us that the way We (mortals) might do something is Not the Same as what God will do. He often does things that might not make sense to our natural selves, which is so we can exercise our Faith in God.
It reminds me of a 'Veggie Tales' episode with "Joshua and the Big Wall".
In this episode one of the vegetable characters, named Junior, reminds the Children of Israel (some other vegetable characters) that "It didn't make sense when God had us go towards the Red Sea, but what happened?! God parted the Water, and the Water Dried up! And it didn't make sense to go into the Dessert when there's no food in the Desert, but what happened?! God gave us Manna!"
Junior goes on to say, "I know sometimes when God tells us to do something like Walk around the City and the Walls will fall down, or when He asks us to be nice to someone who hasn't been nice to us. But when we Remember that God Loves us and wants what's best for us...We can be sure His Way is the BEST Way!"
Here's a good video from this portion of the episode. If you want to skip to this part start at 2:30.
ruclips.net/video/1J9R2Yy8GOk/видео.html
Thank you for sharing such informations. The whole story of Joseph Smith has not arrived in Italy, we have only a few parts of the first chapter concerning the first vision. I have been trying for years to understand how the stones and the breastplate were made and put together, since the Roman pectorals are quite large and the Egyptian ones are more like large necklaces. Thank you so much
I’m glad I found your videos! Fascinating learning
I'm so disappointed in so many of these comments. I understand that we all got to the point we are at completely differently, but at some point, a person (particularly a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), must come to a point where either they believe Jospeh Smith or they don't. We can't pick and choose which things we want to believe and which seem far fetched or beyond our own understand. This sounds like an example of Proverbs 3: 5-6. "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."
Who are we to assume or believe that we have all the information?... that we know as much or more than God? Are we meant to know and perfectly understand all of the mysteries of God in this life? I stand firmly in the Joseph Smith camp and choose to believe that he was and is a prophet of God who restored Christ's church. I'm very grateful to him for all of the things he did and endured so that we could enjoy the fullness of the gospel.
Do you have any problem with this statement from Joseph's father in law, Isaac Hale?
" I went to the house where Joseph Smith Jr., lived, and
where he and Harris were engaged in their translation of the Book. Each of them had a written piece
of paper which they were comparing, and some of the words were "my servant seeketh a greater
witness, but no greater witness can be given him." There was also something said about "three that
were to see the thing"--meaning I supposed, the Book of Plates, and that "if the three did not go
exactly according to orders, the thing would be taken from them." I enquired whose words they
were, and was informed by Joseph or Emma, (I rather think it was the former) that they were the
words of Jesus Christ. I told them then, that I considered the whole of it a delusion, and advised them
to abandon it. The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret, was the same as when he
looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, and his hat over his face, while the Book of
Plates were at the same time hid in the woods!"
I would like to suggest that you go to the LDS Temple in Independence, Missouri and read the Gold Plates for yourself. See the Book of Joseph for reference. It's not like Joseph got his book from some dead guy.
Great video. Thank you for sharing. My understanding of the word transliteration is that it means to replicate or imitate sounds from one written language to another. So names, like Alma, Nephi, Helaman, Mormon, etc would all be examples of transliteration, because they likely sound similar to how they would have been called in their native language. However, the bulk of the Book of Mormon would not be a transliteration, it would actually be a translation. Perhaps Joseph did not translate the Book of Mormon, and if not, then the translation was at least given to him through seer stones and revelation.
All cobblestones found in Western NY around the Great Lakes are derived from glacial till dropped from the continental glaciation that covered the area with ice two miles deep. Ultimately the both white and brown stones had to originate from bedrock in Canada.
Hi. I’m a geologist from Montana. A fascinating thing about glacial till is that its composition is regionally distinctive. I.e. agates near volcanic bedrock, feldspar near granitic bedrock, although some erratics travelled much further the distribution seems to be approx. 1/r^2 . So banded iron local to Great Lakes makes sense.
A second interesting issue are gizzard grinding stones. I have many of these in dinosaur rich Montana. Some have travelled a moderate distance ~ 20 miles. They are usually very hard and well rounded.
I remember the topic of the Liahona came up in Sunday School a couple years ago. The teacher asked the class to list on a chalkboard of what the Liahona represented symbolically. There were many answers, like, "the prophet", or, "prayer".
I raised my hand and said, "well Nephi already had all those other things, so why did he need a Liahona?"
My point was that we should not discount divine objects such as Seer stones, divining rods, and Liahonas as mere outdated metaphors for ancient times, but actual real divine objects to be taken seriously for what they are.
Thank you for another great video. This is a subject that has fascinated me for years. I’m curious to know though, do the stones have an inherent power that is available to the person who finds it? Or, like the stones used by the brother of Jared, are they given power for a specific purpose, to be used by selected individuals?
They are given power for a specific purpose, to be used by selected individuals.
The seer stones' greatest power is in deluding millions of gullible people into believing in Mormonism.
I think a lot of people have been taught that a lot of things are weird or unnatural or strange. On a personal note I feel that this has been to discourage, distract, divide, and ultimately destroy any connection that modern people have with the past and things that were done. If the spirit of Elijah is busy working miracles by turning the hearts of the children to the fathers and the hearts of the fathers to the children then it goes without saying that there is a need for this because it has been damaged or destroyed over centuries. Look at the Victorian era. I noticed a very sharp increase almost as if it were deliberately done in the amount of dissension, division, and idolatry as well as leaning on newfangled modern technology and doing away with anything from the past that came out during the Victorian era. In the 1820s a number of secret societies got their claws into university students by setting up chapters on campus in the United States and Western Europe. Interesting that this coincides with the chain of events that happens which leads to Joseph Smith receiving revelation and instruction and inspiration. The enemy is always at work doing anything and everything to counteract the works of our father. Something good comes into the world to shine a light into the darkness and immediately the enemy goes to work trying to divide, defuse, and deflect that light because he cannot destroy it. Taking a beam of pure white light and running it through a prism to divide it into many beautiful colors which are distracting to the average human. Divide and conquer. Stones are amazing things and just interesting when I talk about some thing I heard not that long ago about how the different cabinets from ancient times for bed mankind from making an altar to the Lord out of hewn stone because it would taint or pollute the stone in someway. This is why Adam perhaps built his first altar to the Lord out of a number of stones gather together rather than a piece of hewn stone which had been worked with other tools. I also find it interesting that a lot of the ancient North American people that built mounds and earthwards did not use stairs but instead used ramparts made of earth. Perhaps they were still trying to keep covenants? I recently found a beautiful quartz pebble out in the woods and it was amazing because the sun just happened to be shining right down on it and it looked as if it were glowing like fire. I picked it up and although it looks like in the past it may have been broken Naturally it was perfectly suited to fit in my hand. It even looks like it had a small point at one part of it that I used to inscribe my initials on a glass jar. We forget that quartz is extremely hard. Not as hard as a diamond but still it will cut glass and ancient people in North America and other countries used quartz to inscribe or make marks on other materials. These stone tools were called gravers, burins and borers. If stone was used for a mini thousands of years as tools why not a seeing stone? Certain kinds of stones have physical properties to gather and focus and regulate energy. Crystals are one of those materials. I’m pretty sure that the breast plate function in much that way. Those stones were Set and inscribed in a very precise manner within a breast plate of gold and fabric that was woven with a certain color and metallic thread mixed in with it. To me that sounds like an electronic circuit with a switch. Our father in heaven is the wisest of all the beings that ever existed. He knows what he’s doing.
Have you looked at the research done by Hannah Stoddard and the Joseph Smith Foundation? You’ll want to read their findings concerning the seer stone used in the translation process.
Way to many sources against her claims, the only rebuttal is that he used the U&T because Joseph and Oliver said so. They were liars so I don’t take what they have to say as Gospel.
This is so interesting - thank you!
They are amazing. They quoted Jesus as using the word "mile" in his visit to America. I am sure the Nephites made extensive use of British measurements.
Neither did Jesus use the term ‘mile’ in the Bible. Scriptural translation is an attempt to convey meaning relevant to the reader, not exact particulars of the writer.
@@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971 Exactly. It is not meant as a literal, word for word translation, but modern critics seem to think it has to be or else it can't be true.
I would love to have another video on supernatural objects used by God to bring forth His will.
This is so encouraging! Thank you so much for your videos! Please keep making videos! Everytime you say your gonna make another video I get super excited!!!!
So cool!
It may be the language you are using that alienates people. Magical is not a word that I'd typically used in referencing what seems supernatural events or properties.
Magic in the more modern and quote possibly the times of Jesus, were more associated with soothsayer, witches, and the like.
Thoughts?
I think you may be off on this one. The Joseph Smith Foundation has a book (or two) specifically on the Urim and Thummim and Seer Stone and their history with Joseph which can provide more context to this topic.
Fantastic insights and research, and well-produced video. Thank you!
So why don't the current LDS leaders use these stones like in ancient times and like Joseph Smith? Should the term "seer" in "prophet, seer, revelator" apply to current leaders as they don't use such stones (or the rock in a hat trick) anymore?
Good question. Maybe they do??
No, modern LDS church leaders don't use the seer stones which they own, because they know that they are just ordinary stones, with no magical powers, and always have been.
And why didn't Joseph use it to find the Lost 116 pages?
I’ve been waiting for this one for a while. It’s fascinating to me. I’m the 100th like on the video too. Thank you for these videos I appreciate them very much.
You indeed did your homework Bro! I appreciate your research and the time it took to put this informative video together! I'm trying to learn about theses special stones as much as possible.
Interesting presentation with a lot of speculative observations. For example, how the brown stone was formed, pure speculation. There is no question as to the existence of seer stones, but the speculations proposed are just that, speculation. As we have Seers today, the supposition that the seer stone would be needed to train a seer has no basis in historical fact. We do not read of Enoch the Seer having a Seer Stone, nor do we read of Nephi having a seer stone, or Lehi.
Thank you for all the work you put into these videos! You are making a difference for good!
This is awesome. Thank you for sharing.
I was never ever taught about him using a seer stone. In all the primary classes and beyond it was always the physical gold plates being translated with assistance from urim and thummim, and now the gospel topic essays are claiming other things and slowly it’s changing. If the seer stone was used in a hat, what was the point of the gold plates being carried around for hundreds of years and nephi chopping off labens head???
What was tje point of Christ putting mud on the eyes of the blind? its a physical item in which we can channel our faith through.
@@zissler1 ok that argument is fine but it’s the fact that the translation process was taught one way but done a different way and eventually slowly brought out to the masses.
@@Spawn303 I really don't care. I think some people have a hard time wrapping their heads around it so I could see them hesitate, but who cares.
@@zissler1 lol who cares? People waste their entire lives on lies and give their hard earned money to a church that is worth hundreds of billions of dollars.
Back in the early 80’s, what was commonly taught in the church in my part of the world was that Joseph Smith used 3 different methods to translate the Book of Mormon in this chronological order: 1. The Urim and Thummim 2. The seer stone 3. Lastly, toward the end of the Book of Mormon, without the use of any divine artifacts whatsoever.
I was honestly surprised at how many lifelong members of the church recently have been claiming to have never heard of the seer stone till now.
Then again, my mother studied every aspect of the church before joining, and taught her children to do their own research. I imagine a lot of people are content to let Sunday school teachers, who often prep lessons at the minute, be the sum total of their knowledge base.
That being said: with the presence of the Urim and Thummim, what was the need for the golden plates? Or for that matter- if God can speak directly to prophets today, and even reveal truths to our own hearts, then what is the need for ancient scripture at all? What is the need to write and record our stories for posterity? What is the need to remember the past?
I hope you have some good answers for those questions- because those answers matter deeply.
We think we communicate with data and information. No. We communicate with stories. Even the smallest part of speech has a story behind it. Those narratives matter. The Word, after all is sacred.
According to the D&C and PoGP, only the Urim & Thummim was used to translate The Book of Mormon. This is what Oliver Cowdery wrote personally.
So anything not Scriptural should be set aside as speculation.
I am 77 years old and was baptized at 8 years old. NEVER was the story of a Seer Stone shared with me.
The Seer Stone is now part of a new narrative to explain where the BOM came from.
This Stone was found by a neighbor boy of Smith while digging a well. Smith borrowed it and would never return it.
Smith used the Stone early on as a tool to hunt for buried treasure.
An interesting question is: how does a seer stone become a seer stone? Obviously Joseph’s stone was one already for him to dig and find it. I would assume by divine intervention just like the Brother of Jared’s lighted stones. Therefore, we’d conclude Joseph’s stones were once used by Nephite or Jaredite or Adamic prophets.
off topic: That's really cool. Time well spent! (to grind down the stone!)
Mosiah also used the Urim and Thummim, or stones, to translate the plates of Ether. I just wonder if any stones are used today? I have a faded memory of someone describing our phones, or technologies, as in the stead of' seer stones, and are not so different in use. They're both easier to use in the darkness, but one is of spiritual nature (or physical nature, like the Gensesis Stone), whereas the phones are inspired by said spiritual things. Idk, but it's an entertaining thought
The stone seen is a smoothed piece of gneiss, (pronounced 'nice'), a rock common in upstate New York, and known for its striped appearance. Joseph likely followed a process like that seen in the Book of Mormon in Ether, see the story about the stones that were touched to emit light.
Joseph of Egypt used a divining cup. Was crazy when I found that out.
Super cool
Seer stones may work in the same way that liquid crystals form and behave. Electron oscillation and resonance would be factors. After all we watch TV with no thought as to how they work. We read texts on our phones, read ebooks on kindle or nooks, and watch the ribbons on the lower portion of newscasts without considering how these messages form.
Interestingly, the TV was invented by Philo Farnsworth a member of the church.
wait what?
Of course your comment makes perfect sense. Why buy a TV set, when you can just dig up a rock and watch HBO on it for free?
@@randyjordan5521 I think my rock is on the blink, but I didn't want to watch HBO anyway.
It can be confusing because the church mislead its entire community until recently about how the book of mormon was translated.
Hummmm... so then we must believe Emma when she says that Joseph Smith didn't practice polygamy then? I'm very opposed to Richard Bushman's revisionist approach to history where all comments from any historical source must be given equal weight to deliver the special narrative that he wants to achieve. There is nothing wrong with sticking with the narrative that early church historians who were much closer to the events we're able to vet and corroborate. Emma Smith and David Whitmore were apostates and gave many contradictory statements about the translation process decades after the events. It is much better to base our history on more reliable sources. Joseph and Oliver both said they used the Urim and Thummin. Why is that not good enough?
Is your Book of Revelation study guide from a year ago no longer available? The links you provided under the video doesn't work.
Your stuff is good… wanna collaborate on Midnight Mormons?
Yesss
LETS GOOOOO!!!!! Cardon this HAS to happen!
I second that motion ✋
Must a person undergo a lobotomy to qualify to appear on your channel?
Not a problem. All over the Old Testament.
The question is "did Joseph Smith use his pretty river-rock to translate the Book of Mormon?" According to eye-witnesses he did, but according to Joseph Smith and the preface of the Book of Mormon, he did not.
He was seen putting his head in his hat along with his rock, but I think the Urim and Thummim were already in the hat.
How else could Joseph have been obedient to God's command to keep all ancient things from view, (even from his wife) and still continue the work of translation? The stone was a ruse and not unknown to God (see D&C 5:4)
This is why Joseph always side-stepped questions regarding the actual translation process.
This is my opinion and nothing I've ever read before. Subsequent Church statements and even RUclipss, are merely acknowledgments of the (non-LDS) accounts.
So if seer stones are sort of a class of objects used for the purpose of translation then could a Ouija board be used? Or Tarot cards?
If the stone is just used for training the seer then does it matter what object is used to train?
Like most things used for holy purposes, objects can be hijacked by the evil one. We are cautioned in scriptures to avoid "peeping wizards" and such. We have been given the pattern to use prayer and scriptures to hear God's voice... Oujia boards and Tarot cards are counterfeits and more likely to lead to the dark side, I'd say.
@@terianderson7951discernment is important when using anything like this in my opinion. However it seems the object being used is less important than what is being taught which is why I don't believe it wouldn't matter if it was a Ouija board or Tarot cards.
Considering that the Book of Mormon is fake, Joseph Smith could have used a cow turd or any other object to write it.
@2:30 Look at the timing and source of the Doctrine and Covenants section in question. It's worth knowing a few things about the timing of it and the interactions taking place then. The white stone in question references a chapter of the book of Revelations in the New Testament. In York Rite Freemasonry, there is a White Stone given to entrants at a certain degree from the results of an allegorical story in one of the degrees.
Gotta know more to get that knowing more to be worth more, yo?
I have loved all of these videos and have watched and listened to them several times to get all the information you put into them.
I finally heard of a discourse today and have never heard of it before-the King Follet discourse. I wonder if this would fit into your teaching style I would love to hear more about this sermon. Thank you so much for all the work you do.
So… years of conning/directing people to buried treasure (gold) with the stone in the hat. And then using the same method to translate buried (gold) plates?
"You are beginning to see a little more clearly already."
what is the point of having golden plates?
to me it adds to the credibility. Imagine we only have the testimony of Joseph Smith translating the book of Mormon from nothing, or from a stone only. Instead we have 11+ witnesses, all of whom saw the plates, 3 of whom saw an angel and heard the voice of God. We have the fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy when Martin Harris took copies of the characters to Charles Anton who verified them but then tore them up and stated he could not read a sealed book. There is also a sealed portion which we have been promised will come forth in the own due time of the Lord. God's ways are not our ways but I think the evidence of the plates substantiates the claim that he translated and did not author them.
@@joeshawcroft7121 Right. Im going to translate your response, or better yet I will try to interpret it. You know what, Im going to use your comment as a catalyst and inspiration to formulate my response. Oh sorry, I tried but my phone's screen its too bright right now... wonder where I left my hat.
@@rickyricky4738 well, you asked, I answered. :D
Well, when you're a wealthy king like Montezuma, you want golden plates for your Spanish guests when they drop by for dinner.
On this subject, the 19th-century anti-Mormon M. T. Lamb sarcastically wrote:
"Finally, according to the testimony of Martin Harris, Mr. Smith often used
the "seer stone" in place of the Urim and Thummim, even while the latter
remained in his possession using it as a mere matter of convenience.
It seems almost too bad that he should thus inadvertently give the whole
thing away. You must understand that the Urim and Thummim spoken of, and called
throughout the Book of Mormon "the Interpreters," had been provided with great
care over 2500 years ago by God himself, for the express purpose of translating
these plates. They are often mentioned in the Book of Mormon as exceedingly
important. They were preserved with the greatest care, handed down from one
generation to another with the plates, and buried with them in the hill Cumorah
over 1400 years ago; as sacred as the plates themselves. So sacred that only
one man was allowed to handle or use them, the highly favored prophet, Joseph
Smith himself. But now, alas! After all this trouble and pains and care on the
part of God, and on the part of so many holy men of old, this "Urim and
Thummim" is found at last to be altogether superfluous; not needed at all. This
"peep stone" found in a neighbor's well will do the work just as well and is
even more convenient, "for convenience he used the seer stone." So we are left
to infer that when he used the Urim and Thummim at all, it was at some
inconvenience. And probably he only did it out of regard to the feelings of his
God, who had spent so much time and anxiety in preparing it so long ago, and
preserving it to the present day for his special use! ("The Golden Bible",
1887, pages 250-51)
I always thought that there was a Urim and Thummim in with the plates, and that Joseph started translating with them, later switching to the seer stone. If so, i would speculate that perhaps the U and T were an uncomfortable fit, Joseph being a large man, so he started using the stone in the hat instead. I might be wrong.
Quando o senhor deu as placas com os mandamentos a Moisés ele deu na própria língua dos hebreus, e Moisés não precisou traduzir nda.
Quando a mão do Senhor apareceu no templo que estava sob domínio dos banilonios e o rei bebeu vinho na taça sagrada, o Senhor desaprovou escreveu na parede do templo na língua do povo hebreu e Daniel traduziu p/ o rei sem precisar de pedra ou algo assim. Se a pessoa tem o Espirito Santo logo tem o Dom de línguas pqe ainda precisaria de uma pedra ???
Jiseph Smith precisou da pedra p/ traduzir as placas, no entanto não precisou para traduzir os pergaminhos que comprou do homem que vendeu a múmia e os pergaminhos a ele e Jiseph simplesmente traduziu sem a ajuda da pedra como entender isso.
Please put this on translator and answer my dubt.
"And the words would appear on it" - I would like to know who said this and how they said it that isn't a scripture. Would he see things externally (with eyes) or internally (mind)? And if he saw it externally, I'd like to know exactly how. Very interesting!
Awesome little thesis. Thanks.
Great content brother! 👍
Do you subscribe to a tight translation (exact words that God wanted appeared on the stone) or a loose translation (Joseph conveyed ideas using his own language)?
I subscribe to the loose fraud theory, because the Book of Mormon has had to be revised numerous times in order to sound a little more coherent.
Thank you for this treatise.
Why say that the incorrect depictions of the Book of Mormon translation which were printed numerous times in official church publications, over many decades, meant for the masses of the church were the fault of artists and people who didn't know any better, when we all know that those publications had to have been approved by the General Authorities, and even if they weren't initially, they certainly would have been seen by the General Authorities over the many decades the incorrect depictions were in print/existence? Either the General Authorities are responsible/complicit in deception or THEY didn't know the truth any better than people pushing "Anti" points of view, which should make us wonder: what is the point of a Prophet/Seer/Revelator?
Ya didn't solomon use a stone or something to help build a temple or something. Some say it maybe was a worm but others say it was a small stone.
What did you think of the newly found Joseph Smith photo? (I think it is authentic.)
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This is so insightful. I recently saw some really interesting insight on this from a lovely lady named Sandra Tanner. I encourage all active members to go and listen to her full story. As a faithful member I would search for truth and answers everywhere but never felt satisfied with the results I got. Until I discovered the Tanners and suddenly it all made perfect sense.
Transliteration doesn't describe this process at all. Channeling does. Clearly Joseph channeled the book and not translated or used transliteration .
Why use transliteration? The definition of the word says swapping out letters of one alphabet for another. If he wasn't looking at the text he cannot swap out the letters.
Please explain your definition of transliteration for us. Channeling makes much more sense as the plates were put away and through a greater power the words appeared on the stone for him to read.
Jesus didn't need to put mud on the blind man's eyes to heal him. The mud was for the blind man's benefit to assist wtih his faith. As God wants us to do as much on our own part to nurture our faith, using an object familiar with the user to assist is reasonable.
Yeah, except that the Lord specifically commanded Joseph to continue as before the lost 116 pages. See D&C 10:1-3
"you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim (...)", "it is now restored unto you again; therefore see that you are faithful and continue on unto the finishing of the remainder of the work of translation as you have begun."
"Continue ... as you have begun."
v41: "you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi"
Never anywhere does the Lord refer to a seer stone in connection with the TRANSLATION of the Book of Mormon.
D&C 8:1 "receive a knowledge concerning the engravings of old records, which are ancient,". Why would Oliver (or Joseph) need to have knowledge of the engravings of old records if the words just appear on a stone in english?
Sec 10:1-3 says that Joseph should continue to translate as he began before Martin Harris lost the 116 pages. The stone isnt mentioned in those versus but the Urim and Thummim is. Probably not important but interesting.
1 Now, behold, I say unto you, that because you delivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim, into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them.
2 And you also lost your gift at the same time, and your mind became darkened.
3 Nevertheless, it is now restored unto you again; therefore see that you are faithful and continue on unto the finishing of the remainder of the work of translation as you have begun.
Oh WOOOOOWWW ❤❤❤
First of all, I want to remark on the paradigm you gave of jasperstone, or the "Genesis stone" forming during the time the earth was being created as being "1.4 billion years ago".
A few years ago, I was listening on RUclips to a man who said he was raised by parents who were atheists. If I remember correctly, as this man grew older, either sometime in his 30's, or as he approached the age of 30, his viewpoint on the "millions" and "billions" of years that "scientists" "quoted" for either the age of the earth, or the time it took for Dwarwinian evolution to occur, he finally realized were all fabrications of men.
An influential writer who lived in England when Darwin did, was using such time frames even before Darwin came up with his theory of evolution for life forms to evolve gradually on each over very extended periods of time.
What this man explained was this--
He said what "scientists", like Darwin, started to do more and more, likely amounted to this--
In essence, they were postulating, "Give me enough time, and anything can happen..."
I think that observation is likely 'spor on' correct.
However, a number of noted scientists and mathematicians today (some of them even atheists still themselves), looking at both Darwinian evolution, and doing the math on issues of the probability of certain evolutionary changes having to co-evolve (as would need to be the case for many organisms to be able to self reproduce, is, in fact, mathematically i.possible, assuming all would have to transpire randomly
Since watching and pondering this man's observations, I personally believe that creation likely happened as the scriptures suggest, over a total period lasting ONLY 7,000 years, since, as the scriptures also make clear, one day to God equals 1,000 years unto man.
Seer stones and Urim and Thummim’s aren’t the only medium Prophets have used to facilitate revelation, Joseph of Egypt used a silver cup (see Genesis 44).
This information is far off. People can believe whatever they want, but why would the Lord direct Moroni to place the U&T in the stone box if only to translate the first 119 pages? It makes no sense. Much has been written about the "seer stones," as well as the U&T, but it is important to know that Church historians have not always told the complete truth.
❤️
Thank you so much for clarifying some of the translation process. That is something I have wondered about, but haven't felt to dig through histories and journals to find all the details.
Throughout the entire history of the written language translations were made by scholars who knew both languages (the original, and the one to be translated into) never is someone said to have used a rock to magically translate!!!. Your interpretation of the Urim & thuminim is complete illiterate garbage. Peter got a seer stone at the transfiguration???? What Bible are you reading???? The ONLY reason the Mormon church is coming clean now is because the historical evidence (they tried to bury for the past 100+ years) is now available to all with minimal research via the internet. Your right, many people did use seer stones in Joseph's time, they were practicing occult magic, just like those using divining rods, Tarot cards, and Ouija boards!!!
Everything is true in this.🌹😘😇💕❤️🤩😍.
Very good
I feel like, if the church was not true they would never have created the seer stones or U&T. It's confusing and.. awkward. But i think it likely is meant to teach us to sit with ambiguous confusion, until God is ready to clarify (if ever). I see myself often covering or shading screens in bright light so i can read them better. Cell phones, the gas pump, etc.
@@felloserv That's such a snarky logic. Like God the master of the universe made a wood ark when he knows how to make a submarine?? God made humans without wings but birds with? Its just juvenile. I didn't say it was an electronic device, i said sometimes you need a dark environment to read some things. If he DID have an iphone in 1844 would you be mocking that he couldn't read it very well in the noon sunlight? Or would that be sufficiently impressive a translation device?
@@felloserv What God "needs" to do is out of your purview. He could have appeared and told the stories himself. He could have done MANY things. But he tends to use flawed people and materials of the time. Perhaps his goals are different than yours.
"The church" didn't create the seer stones. They were ordinary stones that Joseph Smith pretended to have magical powers to be able to "see" buried or lost objects.
Is the white Seer Stone still owned by the church?
The First Presidency are in possession of 3 seer stones actually located in the vault that only the First presidency has access to...
I do not of course know how often or if they even use them. I have done an exhaustive research of seer stones both in and out of the church. There were quite a few people doing the time of the prophet Joseph Smith who possessed them. Some were actually use by anti-mormons to find where the plates were hidden. But, Joseph also had his and was able to manage to escape even within seconds before they were discovered numerous times. Remember, in his history, he said that every stratagem that was invented was used to try to get them from him and this included other people who had seer stones who were trying to steal them from him. Sally Chase is a person among others who comes to mind, but her stone stopped working after she asked the stone to show her how the devil looked and after that, it was useless.
@@cliftontaylor8392 I would love to hear more about your findings or if you have any suggested readings
@@jeremydoyle5433 Do you live in Utah or where do you reside?
@@jeremydoyle5433 Brigham Young did say that everyone on earth deserves the right to have a seer stone, but its people's lack of righteousness that keeps them from having owning one. I guess I will get mine hopefully in the celestial kingdom, lol.
The old laws and traditions, which Jesus fulfilled and stopped.
a Heavenly cell phone. All stones mentioned are crystal based. A cell phone uses a silicon chip. A crystal.