As an outsider looking in to the SH universe/fandom, I find it is just as likely as the Wall Break theory...thought I do lean to Wall Break. Until Konami states one way or the other, I will keep an open mind.
I think I grow tired of people saying this confirms or establishes the time loop theory as canon. It does no such thing. It provides information which could be interpreted as supporting the time loop theory, or which could be interpreted as mere nostalgic fan service or easter eggs. Players can decide that for themselves. Frankly, I find many of these discussions of "canon" with regards to a work of art as open to interpretation as SH2 to be a bit ludicrous to begin with. It always strikes me as if people are begging to be told what to think.
This was my first assumption when I saw the message. It makes since on a number of levels because the story in 2 is just so attractive compared to anything to do with a cult.
@@chronostreamteknys704 I think Silent Hill 2's story is a blessing in disguise. It was very fresh for the time, but you cannot repeat the plot twist once you did it once. "Something bad happened in your past, you repressed the memory, and the town is your personal spooky therapist". After the original devs left due to being tired of working on the same franchise for years on a tight schedule, the SH2's premise was copied over and over and over again by new devs. And it didn't work, and it wouldn't work. At least with a cult, you can surprise the player by who did a ritual, when, how, and what result is coming. But even THAT won't be surprising since SH3 ended that story, and SH4 ended it even more.
imo I think they were meaning when the first game was done that started James's purgatory loop, which continued to be played and obsessed over for 20 years. Just my guess, but it felt right to me
There is a TV in Brookhaven hospital's cafeteria and also in the nurse's lounge that transmit a looped message in Morse code: "AGAIN AND". I personally prefer when there is no "official" explanations or as little "canon" about any particular theory as possible. The game is better when you don't know for sure.
I find myself thinking about this game even though it has been almost a month since I finished it. I cannot properly describe the feeling while I was playing it. It was like a combination of loneliness, despair, abandonement and eeriness if that makes any sense. Weirdly, it gives me some peace, somehow. I don't know why.
It feels peaceful because youre slowly working through your trauma which may seem more traumatic, but in reality is what one needs in order to heal. Otherwise you end up like our good ol' buddy james who is in denial and never escapes it.
Cuz this series is wild af. 2 is the generally preferred favorite but 3 is also fantastic. I played the og when it was new and I’ve been thinking about it all that time. It’s like a really good book or movie, but interactive
I think it is a matter of interpretation. Silent Hill 2 never truly had a sequel. You don't find out what happened to James in 3 or 4, so you, the player, are left to come to your own conclusions.
@@sycamorph well. Not exactly. His father, Frank, who was the landlord of South Ashfield Heights, never saw his son again. That he never saw James again, does not necessarily mean that James never left Silent Hill, it just means that if he did escape, he left his old life behind.
@@shawnwolf5961in the remake i think there is a motel room. #207? That is suspiciously implied to be James' James chooses to stay in silent Hill but he has reconciled with himself. What that means? I don't think it means that's why his corpse is everywhere because he chose to stay. In the end that's his choice his corpses are previous failures. That DOESNT make it a time loop. If anything it means silent Hill is enjoying and feeding off his delusions. The 20 year thing? Yeah the town isn't exactly truthful and forthcoming.
@@sycamorph What Shawn above said makes perfect sense if we assume James got the Leave Ending, and later hid his identity in order to raise Laura very similar to how _Harry Mason_ did in order to raise Alessa while hiding from Dahlia's cult.
I dislike it for a simpler reason: This theory has become so big and obstructing that it started overtaking any other interpration from the last 20 years. Instead of allowing countless different interpretations to thrive, new fans and outsiders, (even insiders) declare the stupid time loop fantheory to be the one and only interpretation that matters now. Just like google search results for the original Silent Hill 2 are phased out and disappeared thanks to the remake, this time loop theory will slowly phase out and replace every other theory that existed about this game. Future generations might only remember SH2 as "ohh, that game with that timeloop". And this is a scary outlook to think about.
Damn that fucking sucks…. But I still think it can be interpreted as “we” the players have been here for 20 years and therefore doesn’t interrupt any other theory
Agreed, there's a ton of crackpot theories that are fun to examine, even if there aren't a lot of arguments to defend them it's cool that people can ponder on them, but the time loop theory is the most basic one that pretty much screams "everything is possible and all the endings are canon", it's better for the franchise to leave things in ambiguity instead of leaning on giving clear answers, otherwise as you said SH2 could be remembered as "that game with the timeloop" and nothing else.
@@Flying_Basset I keep reading "circumsicion", and all i can think of is that jewish procedure where a young child gets his "package" cut in half. Like, what's with the use of such a word?
The main elements of the Time Loop Theory at its core are that Silent Hill is a place that "calls" for certain people, so they can confront their own sins and inner demons, being stuck in a never-ending time loop where they will suffer for as long as the town wills it. The most evident flaws of the Time Loop Theory are: 1. Why is Laura there? 2. Why does the town manifest this "Time Loop" only for the characters of SH2? (Given that the previous game and every later entry of the franchise never operate under this premise) 3. What is its conclusion? or to put it more simply: Does the time loop ever end? To elaborate on the previous flaws: 1. Why is Laura there? It makes no sense for Laura to be stuck in the time loop alongside the other "sinners". If the town traps people in a time loop of endless torment, then Laura has no reason to be trapped, even throughout the story we notice that Laura never sees any monsters or anything threatening, the town has no way of tormenting her. Some people argue that Laura is not real, she's just like Maria being created by the town and she's there to guide James to uncover the truth of his own crime. There are a lot of inconsistencies with this assumption, in the case of Maria we can confirm that she is created by the town and only James see her, the story carefully separates Maria from other characters so the player never notices that only James can see her (Maria "conveniently" misses the opportunity to ever meet Eddie and Laura), but Laura casually interacts both Eddie and James, and even though Maria tries to get her attention after she runs from James out of the bowling alley/cinema and through the hospital, Laura never acknowledges Maria, even though Laura is clearly looking for Mary, you'd think she'd be pleasantly surprised to at least hear Mary's voice calling for her. So obviously Laura is a real person like everyone else. Continuing with the assumption that Laura isn't real, some people argue that within the time loop Laura is supposed to be some sort of "guide", she's the innocent guide who is tasked with leading the sinners to accept their sins and find their redemption. More problems arise from this, like why would the town create Laura specifically, given that she would only be relevant to James, why do we never see her interact with Angela if she is supposed to guide everyone, it would be ideal for a little girl to guide Angela but that is never brought up. If we assume that she's only a guide for James, then she kinda sucks as a guide, all the hints that James receive come from himself (he either finds clues on his own, or Maria leads him, which is basically the same as James leading himself given that Maria was created from his own psyche). To conclude this Laura topic, it feels like within the Time Loop Theory she only exists as a narrative resource for James to realize that Mary passed away recently, her whole existence in the time loop is to step on James hand so he can't grab a key and eventually tell him that she "turned 8 last week" so James can reflect on his own memory. 2. Why does the town manifest this "Time Loop" only for the characters of SH2? (Given that the previous game and every later entry of the franchise never operate under this premise) No Silent Hill story seems to be written with the idea of the time loop in mind, so it's weird that only Silent Hill 2 would have it. If you know the lore of Silent Hill then you know why the town is the way it is and what are the forces that rule the town. Just to keep things short I will say that it's extremely unlikely that Alessa or "The Order" would manifest a time loop within the town just to trap four random people and then do absolutely nothing with them, you'd think that if they wanted to trap people in a time loop it would serve some kind of purpose that would benefit the cult or prevent the birth of a god depending of which side prepared the time loop, but nope, only Silent Hill 2 has a time loop theory and the concept of it is never introduced as part of the lore of any other Silent Hill game. Funny enough, Silent Hill 3 technically has a time loop that is canonically there in the form of an easter egg, without going into too much detail in case someone hasn't played it yet, the easter egg is a creepy implication that when the protagonist of SH3 dies a monster will drag her away to revive her so she can continue her journey of suffering, basically telling you that even death won't let you escape the torment. This easter egg in Silent Hill 3 is the closest thing to a canonical time loop in the franchise, and even in SH3 the easter egg itself is not canon. 3. What is its conclusion? or to put it more simply: Does the time loop ever end? There are two possible answers that people give, one is that the time loop never ends, and the other is that the time loop ends once the "sinner" has accepted their sins and found a way to move overcoming their inner struggle. For the case of the time loop that never ends, it is presented the idea that whenever James reaches an "ending" (either he dies because of the monsters or actually reaches a conclusion, like the actual endings of the game) he simply returns to that bathroom just overlooking Toluca Lake at the beginning of the game, his memories are whipped and he sets off once again to a journey that will bring him nothing but pain for all eternity. The same applies to the others (including Laura, which I already explained how it doesn't make sense for her to be stuck in a time loop). For the case of the time loop ending once the sinners overcome their inner struggle, it would be implied that James eventually escapes the time loop upon reaching the "Leave" ending, which btw is the only way for Laura to escape the time loop, I know I'm past the "Why is Laura there?" point, but it seriously makes no sense for her to be stuck in Silent Hill until James decides to come to terms with his crime, she's literally unable to do anything to escape the time loop on her own, she has no inner demons to fight, she has no torments to overcome, she's forced to wait until James remembers that he killed Mary to discover this truth, and then she has to hope that James won't throw his own life away or choose to leave with Maria in denial of his own actions, like seriously, why is Laura even stuck in a time loop? Time Loop Theory 2/10 - The story wasn't written with the time loop in mind. - Why is Laura even there? - Too many inconsistencies. - Silent Hill doesn't work that way, no game before or after has ever worked that way, those that tried to do it kinda sucked narratively (I'm looking at you Downpour) - Time Loop is just a theory, not canon. - Seriously, why is Laura stuck in a time loop? Not canon.
Silent Hill as a whole is riddled with inconsistencies in it's plot and what the town is supposed to represent. I stick to the idea that it's largely just a sort of purgatory where dead or dying people go. After all the game is largely inspired by Jacob's ladder which itself is a reference to the biblical story of Jacob with the ladder representing purgatory. Jacob(in the movie not the bible) who largely inspired the design and some of the back story of James is stuck in a confusing series of events leading up to the big twist that he's slowly dying and never left Vietnam. Jacob is stuck in a loop in which he constantly wakes up reliving events of his life with each iteration getting worse than the last. I like to think of James as being dead and Silent Hill being the place he finds himself stuck in to live out the guilt his unconscious mind torments him with. Laura is a representation of James' desires to have a child that never came to fruition. Eddie and Angela are also dead while experiencing their own unique purgatory. Eddie and Angela however could also be just representations of James' internal desires and issues. The latter is less likely though since the graveyard scene with the three headstones seems to imply the characters are dead already and must face their death. After all, tis doubt which leadeth thee to purgatory. Or at least that's what the key in the game said. Purgatory itself is believed to also be a place where lost souls experience their demise over and over again as well as parts of their lives. They can't accept the fact that they're dead and appear to live on a loop. We know Maria comes back every time she dies. Why can't Silent Hill just bring James back every time he dies? Why does it even have to let any of them go? Of course there are many interpretations of Silent Hill 2. Obviously the UFO ending is the correct one and all of the characters have been abducted by aliens that are thrusting the characters into a simulation where the plot rules are loose as well as designed to torment them with their subconscious guilt and desires. The alien menace is hyper fixated on a sick obsession with exploring the minds of humans to understand how they work.
In the case of Laura and her status in the Loop Theory, there's a very easy and simple explanation: she's completely and utterly _oblivious_ of said loop everytime James resets it and triggers it all over again. Basically put, Laura has no awareness that she's experiencing travelling through the town over and over again due to the simple fact that the town of Silent Hill doesn't see her as a guilt-ridden person with any reason to realize she's part of an endless loop. Since time in the real world doesn't continue while James and co. remain trapped in the loop, Laura remains completely unaware of the circumstances she's a part of, courtesy of her aforementioned lack of guilt and trauma. With all the above said, i personally don't lean on the loop theory to seriously consider it.
Perhaps it is a version of hell, in which doesn't reveal itself to be and keeps silent about the fact. Therefore, a Silent Hell. Playing on their subconscious in such a way that will last for an eternity until they find a way to sort out the inner demons that haunt their soul. Never allowed to leave until they manage to realize it and do what is required... Just a theory. The whole concept of Silent Hill always stood out to me in such a unique way that completely separates itself from any other concept of horror as its own separate element, if that makes sense. Which I think is why it peaks everyone's curiosity, the way that it does. (I'm going to paste this in Max's pinned comment, but this comment is what helped me to put my theory into words in a way that makes sense for some reason) I tend to make a point not to promote my own on others pages, but only because there are so many true fans of this series, I invite you to take a look at my cinematic series that is currently ongoing, that expresses my own unique view of the gameplay through the thorough editing I put into it.
I think one of the biggest holes in the time loop theory is the other people caught in it, mainly Laura, the innocent little girl who has no reason to be caught in such a thing. Also, there's the fact that Eddie doesn't see the corpses as James, but rather he sees them as the guy he shot before fleeing to Silent Hill, proving that the appearance of the corpses as we, the players, see them are just a projection of James' mind. The other evidence for the time loop theory is just fans overthinking fouth wall breaking easter eggs.
It means YOU, the player, has been here for 2 decades. Silent Hill 2 was released in 2001. And now, here you are again, 20+ years later, playing it all over again.
@@jayjayvah The Silent Hill series as a whole is known for silly and whimsical easter eggs and joke endings, some of which are cryptic to get. Not to mention that this is a remake done by a different dev team, who could've wanted to reward their fans with this message directed at the fans themselves.
I remember reading the reddit thread and was like, “oh that’s a neat Easter egg for us fans.” Turned off my computer and went to bed. I woke up and people began a flame war over it being part of the canonical lore. It honestly feels like an Easter egg message for the player.
There is no timeloop, there is no multiverse. None of this is ever suggested in any of the four games. Not once. Silent Hill is not some kind of post-modern M night shamaylan film. It's 4 games where the protagonist faces their shadow-self, and either succeed or fail based on the actions of you, the player. That's the reason all endings are canon, because whichever ending you get is the ending that's real. This is not an MCU movie, there is no infinity stone, there are no time loops.
Like it or not, believe it or not, the otherworld and the fog world by extension is a parallel universe, they exist at the same time as the real world that the people of Silent Hill live on. So if there are more than two realities that's what a multiverse is, so... Good luck sleeping tonight with that.
@@kevinalfaro7150Didn't Masahiro Ito say there are no multiple dimensions or whatever? That it's all happening in the same reality or something like that?
@kevinalfaro7150 that's not what a multiverse is. Unless your definition of "multiverse" means a dreamworld, created by psychic energy, localized to one specific area. And if you asked a random reasonable person whether this qualifies as a multiverse, they would say no. You're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. We see constant references to dreams, psychics, the collective unconscious, and the power of belief across the 4 games. We do not see references to multiverses or time loops.
@@VocalSynthUtau You should see what a parallel universe is and that it fits on what a multiverse is. A multiverse is not a concrete concept that only fits one kind of interpretation, there are vary, The Matrix is considered one too, even though it is placed in the same reality as their real world. It really depends on how you see things, it is like asking if it's possible to travel through time, but as we know time is relative and if an object moves closer to the speed of light time goes faster to this object. Oh, I just want to make one thing clear, I'm not defending the Time loop theory, as it is shitty, stupid, and doesn't fit with the game and the canon with other games
@@misterjakesterthe game came out 20 years ago and as far as I know the remake doesn’t take place in the 2010s. The dead bodies are meant to be nods to the original and the creative director himself questions the theory. At most the game playfully acknowledges the fan theory without taking it seriously
I personally like the idea of the secret message being a fourth-wall break. It's been 20 years since Silent Hill 2, yet here you are, again, playing through James' story. That itself is a time loop. Though, I suppose it's more likely that the multiverse time loop idea is the right one, given the differences between this game and the original being acknowledged in-game, like Maria's original outfit. While I'm personally weary of multiverses, I can see how the devs would go towards the idea, since Silent Hill is a series with multiple endings and grapples with the convoluted nature of the mind and alternate realities. It's fine that they do it, I don't think it ruins anything, I just feel a bit burnt out by the trend.
The time loop crap is just another case of modern devs yet again feeling the need to explain everything without leaving place to subtleties, mystery and speculation.
I don't think Masahiro's comment should be understood as the possibility of a multiverse (or at least not as that being the only canon option). I think he wanted to tell people that they probably shouldn't focus too much on what the devs think to be the "correct" interpretation of silent hill 2, but rather that it's much more important what you personally think to be the correct interpretation. None of the endings and popular theories are more canon than others. As Masahiro said they all work if you think that they work. Now of course you could argue that in the game world this could only be the case if the multiverse theory were correct, but I disagree that multiple "canon" endings automatically means that they all have to exist simultaneously in the fictional world. Of course that does not mean that a multiverse could not be possible, if you think that it is. Also, if you want to take the position that the original author's opinion on what is canon matters more than the audience's, then I think we should also discuss whether the remake of silent hill 2 is more something akin to a retelling by some other author. What I mean is the fictional world in the remake of silent hill 2 is a different one to the original. If you take that position, the time loop theory is only "canon" in the remake and not the original. This is why I personally don't like approaches to media that are too focused on what the authors think. In my opinion, every piece of media is a collaboration between the author, the audience and any other piece of media that existed before it.
Yes yes yes! I see it the same way, art is a collaborative effort between the artist and the audience. I grow so tired of this idea that the artist's viewpoints are the final word on everything, as if they get to forever dictate what everyone else thinks. The artist's viewpoints can be interesting and certainly can help inform the audience interpretation, but in the end it's just their own interpretation, which doesn't need to be everyone's interpretation. As far as Ito's comments on the endings, I just take it that they're all canon in the sense that the true canon ending is the one the player gets. That's how their story ended. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
I personally don't like the timeloop theory as it comes across as some video game metacommentary which doesn't really fit Silent Hill's style. It also harms the overall messages of the story and the fact that any of the optional endings are even possible. So instead I view it as more of indirect mood details that reflect James' mental state, of how he feels disoriented and uncertain about the nature of the world he is in, of engaging with it like he is in a psychosis and keeps seeing projections of his own mental state in it. He keeps seeing visions of himself everywhere because that ties to his own subconscious thoughts, he keeps feeling like he's been here before because mentally he has gone through these ideas over and over again, having been stuck for 3 years in a situation that broke him down. The hidden message seems more like a direct message to the player and it is very much true. For video game industry, for the developers, for the fans, this game came out and stayed in our minds forever. The developers think about it to this day, the industry thinks about it to this day, the fans think about it to this day, etc. We never left and we never want to leave. This is our Samsara that we're willingly stuck in. But that's just how I see it. Maybe it is cope about it actually tying more literally into the narrative which I don't like at all. Maria ending is a possibility but it's not the only possible path James may end up taking. The loop fits Maria ending but not really the rest so forcing its ideas into the rest feels like a point is being missed. The different endings show that all of these are a possibility for James, that he is in a superposition and about to take one of these directions as they're all true to him in different ways. But if the loop is canon to all of the game, then a lot of these optional paths become lies even though the narrative and theming supports all of them, so that would create a conflict in the narrative which seems weird since without this idea everything works. So all in all I don't view the loop idea as exactly literal, as the literal interpretation only fits Maria ending but not really the rest, and the game as a whole needs for all of the endings to be properly possible. Excluding joke endings of course, but I doubt that needed to be said.
Neither the puzzle nor its solution or ramifications is acknowledged by James, but by the player directly. Silent Hill 1 was released in 1999. Silent Hill 2 began development that same year. This was 25 years ago. Silent Hill has captured our imaginations ever since.
It's interesting, this just reminded me of that audio log in The Evil Within where Ruvik talks about the effects on subjects plugged into the collective unconsciousness machine, he says something bout "degradation of the ego causes strong suicidal tendencies". And Tear Sickness in BioShock Infinite, it's a really cool concept
I super appreciate that shortly after 6:35 you put instrumentality in the background. You knew where my mind went when you started talking about unconsciousness soup.
@@mateusfolletto6142 What? Somehow, i have a feeling you've never played either Homecoming or Downpour, but i digress, Alex Shephard is the _protagonist_ of Homecoming with a story which parallels that of many other protagonists in the franchise, and Murphy Pendleton is the protagonist of Downpour who's story also does the same.
From my interpretations I've generally thought of it, as was mentioned in the video, that James see's aspects of himself in death or agony, and as to why they appear the way that they do, is nothing different to what else is reflected in the town through the unconscious as shown through monsters. But to add onto that, the premise of the loop neglects that James see's something at times that others see as well, but it is interpreted differently to him. Eddie see's the man he shot, James see's himself. Angela see's her father, James see's a monster. The other question as well that may not be asked is why only his bodies? If Jame's unconscious is revealing to him multiple realities of his own loop, why are there no other elements that repeat such as the bodies of Eddie and Angela? Why are there no additional clues outside a very abstract series of photographs? That's just my person take though.
I think the message it's trying to say that James, in his mindset, has never truly left silent hill. He constantly talks about how he used to love the town and how he and Mary used to enjoy it so much.
Time loop seems unlikely to me just because literally no SH character MC or NPC has remarked on time being strange. And I don't think a writer could resist at least making oblique reference to time if this was the thing. Like as mysterious as Dark Souls can be, one of the very first things a "sane" NPC tells you? "Time is convoluted." I don't think they'd outright state it if the loop theory was true, but it would be part of the text in a slightly more foregrounded way than just a pile of James corpses.
That first paragraph of yours is prettyuch my thoughts as well. There is no elusion to a time loop in 1, 3, or 4. I suppose you could say theres little to no themes of guilt in those games either, but I'm just not convinced. The corpses as I see it are a convenient asset re-use as well as a suggestion that James has self destructive thoughts.
11:03 No, it could cause his sense of self to deteriorate. It's not a foregone conclusion. Take your bread explanation, for example. Not only would that create a new reality, but essentially, it would create a new version of the person. Our decisions are what make us and if there is a scenario where you have a version of yourself who makes a lot of different decisions that lead them down a different path from you, than they are fundamentally a different person from you. We are not made by the universe. We are made by ourselves. By the decisions we make and the actions we take.
I can never get enough of silent hill analyses, especially yours! This game is so unique it NEVER gets old. There is so much love, care and passion put into it, it clearly shows. The game really feels like it has a "soul", unlike most. I haven't had the chance to play it yet and I'm so looking forward to the day I get my hands on it. I have to admit though, I didn't have the brains to realise what was going on when I watched the cutscene compilation of the game. You helped me see the marvel that this game is and also got me to look more into Alchemy and psychology. I'm thankful and I'm looking forward to your next videos Max!
I've actually personally wandered into the collective unconscious writing Silent Hill fanfic, incidentally. It was honestly scary how I had stumbled into a cacophony of "Green Lion Eating the Sun" imagery with absolutely zero knowledge of alchemy at the time or any knowledge whatsoever that this was a famous symbol in that mythology. I didn't even know what vitriol was at the time and just called it "green acid."
There could be islamic influence aswell, which would make A LOT more sense and support the time loop theory. SPOILERS AHEAD: 1. The punishment for self-ending in islam is that the person will experience the events which lead to this, over and over again. The ending in which James drives into the lake and the hidden message seem to approve this. 2. After death, ones soul will stay in a place called 'barzakh" which means something like barrier in arabic. Its a world somewhat like ours, where the dead ones cannot interact with the still living ones and vice versa. Every dead person waits in this world for God to begin judgement day und resurrect the dead once more. Depending on your deeds, you may experience the punishment of the grave, before the real punishment, which is hell. But if your deeds were in the favor of God or a child dies before reaching puberty, it is promised by god, to be a relaxing and good place to wait for the day of judgement with paradise as the final destination. This would also explain why Laura doesnt see monsters aswell. 3. It is narrated, that the first persons you will meet are the ones on the left and right side to your grave. There is a scene, which shows james grave inbetween Angela and Eddie (the only two real human we ever meet during this journey). This would also explain, why they are in Silent Hill in the first place, even though they feel very random and unimportant to James in the first sight, if we go by this narrative. 4. If a person dies disobeying God, like not praying, fasting or doing good deeds, a humanoid figure with very rotten flesh and stench will be formed. Like before, as paradise is promised for children who died before the age of puberty, they will not experience any punishment. Neither in 'barzakh' nor on the day of judgement. Again explaing, why Laura isnt very scared to be in Silent Hill in the first place. 5. There are Angels, who will perform the punishment of the grave by the command of God, until the day of judgement. The punishment is very specific to what sins the person has done, but not repent before death. I know its a reach, but seeing Maria/Mary die and pyramid Head himself, could be those named Angels which are responsible for punishing James for what he has done to her. I am by far not an expert in islamic religion, but there are very detailed narrations by the prophet Muhammed or in the Quran itself, which caught my attention playing Silent Hill 2, so there are a lot more narations, which could explain Silent Hill in an by now quite unorthodox way.
I really expected this to be a very simple video explaining what Time Loop theory was and the pros and cons of it being canon but instead got one of the most thought provoking, interesting videos I've watched in a very long time
9:35 they're manifestations of the punishment james feels he deserves for what he did to mary, there aren't literal corpses of him around town, those are just regular dead bodies that his mind is applying his own image to within his perception
Any time there's a time loop in fiction, there is what's an assumed "master time line"... That the rest of the world moves forward in some way. If he is in a time loop, he can't have been experiencing the loop for twenty years, because there's no outside to compare it to. He could have done it 20 times, or spent 20 years, cumulatively, in the loop... But to say he had been in a loop for 20 years of effectively meaningless. I think, if it's not him projecting himself on to the corpses as manifestations of his failures, your nodal intersection idea is the only one with logical consistency worth considering.
It doesn’t really matter, see… This series is, as we are, abandoned. Reliving the same stories doesn’t progress us. We are not going anywhere. We are stuck. No resolution for us. No one can let go.
personally, I've always felt that every ending is canon. Though, I don't think it's a 'cop out' to no need to commit to a single ending either. Though, I remember an interpretation of the time loop theory that kinda runs in the middle of a stable time loop and multiverse theory. And the answer to 'is the only me, me?' question is 'yes, but it's also fine if there's more than one me too, bc I can't see through the eyes of all those other me's even if they are me'. I'm too selfish to care if there are other me's cuz the one I'm looking through the eyes of is the only one that currently matters.... Or, something like that.
What cinches loop theory for me is the body you find with the old map and the instructions to help the next James. The Old Map makes a sound every time you inspect it. This was not a dead body that merely looked like James, but a James from the original game. We as the players have gone through the game more than once, thus loop theory is also a meta reference to the players who keep playing again to get a new ending or just for fun.
I really just think loop theory is itself a reference to the movie that inspired Silent Hill as a series which is Jacob's ladder. The movie is pretty much about purgatory and learning to accept death. Even the name of the movie is a reference to the biblical story of Jacob getting a ladder to ascend to the after life. The ladder representing purgatory and the journey to the after life. If you can't accept you're dead, you pretty much are in a loop.
If I'm going with an in-universe explanation (meaning, NOT 'it's all just the devs having fun'), then my favorite is: Those are James corpses, he has been stuck in the loop, but only a handful of laps. The loop might have gone on for 20 years outside, but James has only done a few previous loops. Those are his corpses and notes, and he places the photos to make himself aware during later loops
I do enjoy your theory as that would truly be a fresh hell. Convincing yourself that you've died over and over and there's no way out of this town of monsters and mists that are tailored made to punish you. It's also interesting that if multiverse theory is correct, wouldn't that mean there has to be at least one where James escapes, or doesn't end up there? Or do you think he's cosmically doomed in every iteration?
So basically Silent Hill 2 is Bioshock Infinite, I'm sure that won't cause plot holes the size of craters and destroy all interpretations. I don't think Max realizes how mad the Silent Hill subreddit is gonna be lol.
I'm very much an outsider. But the way I see it, one of the worst things a horror story can do is over-explain things. Fear and the unknown go hand in hand. Having a complete understanding of any aspect of a horror setting makes it less scary. Rules should only be working theories based on observation at best. I think it's best if the town and its myriad mysteries remain as such. Open to interpretation, naturally. But without a definitive answer.
1:03 I have to say that I am not at all a fan of the time Loop theory. I can't stand the idea of the original Silent Hill 2 being a cannon history in the remake. My attitude with all of this has been that it's fine if you do your own thing but don't tamper with the original. This is tampering with the original. As an aside, I think this might be a Twin Peaks reference. This is going to be a very big stretch, but I believe this, or something similar, might be what Laura whispered in Cooper's ear in the Black Lodge at the beginning of Twin Peaks season 3. 1:52 I'm of a similar mindset, although instead of just being hesitant to accept it, I outright reject it.
I view the loop theory the same way I do the Dog and Alien endings. It’s cool and fun but no need for much deeper thought than being a fun video game Easter egg. It’s more tongue in cheek than dramatic and revealing.
Something to keep in mind regarding the collective unconscious that could lead to a misunderstanding otherwise: It's not that we all are connected to "the collective unconscious" like computers are connected via the internet. It's "collective" in the sense of commonalities of unconscious content between different human brains (like e.g. Archetypes). Which is due to the same brain structure of every human.
I like your convergence theory. In a way, it mirrors the unification of a fractured psyche into The Self. Conversely, it also speaks to the unsettling idea that one must grapple with the many paths in life they did not take, and all the existential dread that comes with that. Seeing only dead copies and not living ones implies, perhaps, that you're on the "right" path, though.
7:24 but the original team silent devs said that what james sees as abstract daddy is completely different to what angela saw, all angela saw was her father
I actually like the time loop theory and I'll explain why. My view of the town of Silent Hill differs slightly from the view many people seem to have. They mention the town "calling" to James, and almost guiding him through the town with the intentional purpose of working him through his trauma and guilt. I personally view the role of the town as much more passive. I believe Silent Hill is more like a ball of clay that molds itself to fit the Psyche of inhabitants with strong enough emotional forces. It is simply an Alessa power vacuum that morphs to fit certain minds. James comes to the town with the plan to drive into the lake with his wife's body, and once he enters he crosses the plane that separates reality from the metaphysical side of Silent Hill and from that point on he is an a world morphing around his psyche. This is the reason there is fog covering the town and giant scaffold covered in white cloth blocking parts of the town. These are not fully formed areas of the world, imperfect missing parts of the scattered memory of the town itself. Here is where I believe the time loop comes in. Rather than the world being sort of amusement park ride of horror with an intentional ending, it is simply the physical manifestation of a tortured mind as a place. He doesn't make it out of the end of the game simply because he reaches the end and that is where you get off the ride, he only gets out once he faces his true actions and confronts his trauma and guilt, and is able to achieve the "Leave" ending. The reason is simple. How can someone escape a realm (or plane or illusion, whichever you prefer) that is a literal manifestation of being trapped within their suicidal, traumatized and dissociated mind? The only true way out would be to set their psyche straight and accepting reality enough that they are able to simply walk out without being assaulted on all sides by manifestations of their shadow. Any other ending in the game has James refusing to face his guilt and ease his mind, whether that be simply giving up and driving into the lake, attempting to block out the whole thing and accept the false reality of Maria, or trying to "get out of jail free" and undo his unforgivable sin by performing a rebirth ritual. All of these methods of escaping his psychotic collapse are attempts to run away from the issues in his psyche rather than sort them out, and only result on him being trapped in the same illusion he started in. It's also why all the endings can be canon, they just keep him trapped in the same place until the final ending, "leave" is achieved. This is why I like the time loop. Each corpse is a James that couldn't break through the lies and delusions he told himself and ended up walking in circles or trying and failing to escape. As the note at the end of the road by the Historical Society says, "I can ONLY leave by not leaving." James is stuck in his own mindscape, and is only able to leave once he suffers through and makes his mind a place that isn't a figurative and literal (Toluca) prison. Not because Silent Hill consciously wants him to, but because the only way to leave a room with no doors is to build one.
Every playthrough of this game is a branch into James' multiverse with our own personal experience, which is how the collective consciousness is able to happen. Branches are technically all happening at the same time even though the starting point could have been from anytime since the game has been released. That letter is only true if you've been playing the same save file for 20 years, if only 1 person actually did that then that letter will appear for every timeline.
I got goosebumps when you told is what the photos say. I’m 45 I’ve played the original many times and the remake once. This game is incredible, it just keeps on giving
@@The4thSnake I guess mortal Kombat is finally dying, in no small part due to the fan fiction multiverse wankery you love so much, so now it's time for you to Stink up another decades old franchise with embarrassing fan fiction 🤮
@VocalSynthUtau You need to listen well and think clearly. I doubt Max would like you driving away his fans and viewers with your elitest demeanor. Perhaps you are on the spectrum and do not know how to disagree without sounding rude? Maybe you are just an A-hat? Think, consider, THEN speak.
For me, finding the map with the notes on it proves it. The photos are 50 percent 4th wall breaking and 50 percent confirmation of some theory that james has been there before.
The strongest argument for the time loop theory is the movie "Lost Highway" which Silent Hill 2 is pretty much based on. I still really hate the idea, for a very simple reason. It reduces all the other characters and their choices. James has leway. He can change enough to be an entirely different person in each of these loops. Yet everyone else is always stuck. Eddie wil always go insane and try to kill James. Angela will always kill herself. It takes away from these great characters. They can never change anything in an infinite loop.
I would argue that none of of the other people are people. They are figments of James. His sexual impulses towards a bedridden and mentally unstable wife, his self hatred and juvenile frustration that bursts into murderous rage. The only real person in the whole game is James himself.
Just hearing the term "multiverse" makes me cringe. I need a decade-long break from ever hearing that or seeing it used in any form of media. Even the ending of Arcaane Season 2 jumped the shark and introduced mutliverse nonsense.🙄 Lets not ruin Silent Hill 2 and retcon it with multiverse shlock.
On version 1.0 when James plays the piano he plays Magdalene in full. All 7 notes. Magdalene begins and ends with the same note. It's basically 1 2 3 4 3 2 1, 1 2 3 4 3 2 1, repeat. That is what James would play. The day 1 patch changed this. He now plays 2 3 4 3 2 1, 2 3 4 3 2 1. They changed it so James is now making the end of one cycle, the beginning of the next, and also that the first note in Magdalene has already been played. This isn't James first loop, and when he gets to the end he's already started the next cycle.
The reason why Silent Hill 2 it became a classic is because eventually people began to see how unique, eerie, melancholic and authentic the game's atmosphere it really is, and took the time to enjoy its deeply thoughtful narrative and symbolism. To this day it’s by far one of, if not the most mature examination of grief, sexual trauma, suicide, and morality all combined. It’s an intelligent game that does not hold anyone’s hand and comes at the player with utmost confidence in itself. It’s fantastic stuff. The rest of the original 4 are great in their own right and have their own well written stories, but they don’t hold the same emotional weight to them. The soundtracks of SH2 are so Divine and Iconic. 🎶☯️🎶I think SH2’s maturity by comparison is something that a lot of people are drawn to. ☯️
I’ve seen people argue about the loop theory before but in my mind its canonicity is as up to player choice as the endings are. We know nothing about James after 2 other than the fact that his dad Frank never saw him again, so Team Silent intentionally left it to you to decide. I think Bloober Team did the same thing with the loop theory. They added things like the strange photos as possible evidence for it but intended it so you can take it as just referring to the longtime fans and not necessarily to James directly. I personally like the theory and i kind of take it as canon but I’m unsure of some of the specifics of how it works, like for example, are Eddie and Angela in their own loops, meaning they could survive? Or are they stuck in James’ loop? Or are they just long dead by this point and the ones we see are manifestations or something like that? I don’t know but I think that’s what’s nice about loop theory, it creates even more room for discussion, canon or not, so to me it’s disappointing seeing some people get angry about even the possibility of it.
Yes you said it so well! Something I love about Silent Hill is how much it can be theorized on, and there's pretty much always some element of validity, because Silent Hill leaves a lot up to interpretation. And I think that's what Bloober did here as well. 20 years could refer to the playerbase, or it could be loop theory, but personally I think it's a bit of both. Bloober isn't confirming or denying the loop theory, but they're certainly entertaining it. But the "two decades" would be a big coincidence if it wasn't intended toward the playerbase as well. I agree that fans shouldn't be so adamant that a theory isn't or shouldn't be worth considering; that seems a bit inconsistent with the series' MO: we DON'T know everything, and there are definite unexpected twists, but in the end we still are left with questions and a lot of gray area. It's fascinating, there is so much depth.
Okay, now, what I wonder: What would be - for James - the difference between Multiverse and Time Loop? If he started each loop with his memory wiped clean, there would be no internal difference for him, would there? It does not matter for a movie if it runs 50 times in parallel, or 50 times in sequence, does it? (also, love the Evangelion footage for the Primordial Soup)
I think the loop theory is pretty simple. Just like with Elden Ring, you keep resetting the world until you finally get the required outcome, which is confronting and accepting the traumatic event that happened. The main character represents determination, but that also doesn't mean that you are determined to get the right outcome. In Elden Ring, this is shown through the different Tarnished. There are a few that almost made it to Elden Lord, but then got side tracked or gave up, and you have those that simply didn't get very far at all. In Elden Ring, however, the maiden is the willpower, so there it's a combination of willpower and determination, that both need to be on the same page. The only good ending in these games is to confront the traumatic event, accept how things are, and learn to move on. Individuation, wholeness, spiritual enlightenment. If you don't confront your inner demons, they will always haunt you, you can not outrun them. What we're experiencing is these games, is ego-death and adjusting our order, law, approach, ect. Personal unconscious: it's basically what keeps you busy, personally. "I'm already 34, and I still don't have kids." Collective unconscious is what keeps your family, your culture and the rest of the world busy, but still impacts you. "Women over the age of 40 will find it more difficult to get pregnant."
I remember a line from SH: revelation: “…which one?there are many silent hills…” and thinking why almost every game’s Silent hill looks different it definitely fits especially looking at what PT could’ve been I mean it was called “Silent hillS”
I always thought about how this ‘place’ was created and what it is about. If you think about it as some sort of limbo, it would make sense everything you see is designed to weigh down on the mind. James is trapped by some dimensional entity that is feeding off misery. Only he can find a way to free himself, but that misery keeps him trapped. A sort of prison if you will. Time and space do not matter! He might be trapped in a loop or one of many attempting the trial. Regardless of why the reason stays the same. James will endlessly repeat this until he frees himself from the misery. No matter how many loops or versions of James go through, the entity wants to see if he even *could* do free himself. Eddie and Angela both seem to be endlessly trapped. Never being able to free from the torment they keep themselves in. Who knows how long they have been there before James arrives Personally this would be one heck of a purgatory to be trapped in!
I think an elegent solution is that some endings result in James staying in silent hill and looping his experience, and he continues to until he's able to fully live with himself. Similar to the Buddhist belief of reincarnation. If the soul is unable to pass on from silent hill, they are doomed to relive their personal hell for eternity.
Whether it's a Samsara or Multiverse loop, if it's said that all endings are canon, then it's truly all for naught. All I can do is smile and quote Owlman's last words: "It doesn't matter....."
What do you think of the time loop theory?
As an outsider looking in to the SH universe/fandom, I find it is just as likely as the Wall Break theory...thought I do lean to Wall Break. Until Konami states one way or the other, I will keep an open mind.
I like the theory, but I agree it shouldn't be canon and also don't subscribe to it exclusively.
I think I grow tired of people saying this confirms or establishes the time loop theory as canon. It does no such thing. It provides information which could be interpreted as supporting the time loop theory, or which could be interpreted as mere nostalgic fan service or easter eggs. Players can decide that for themselves. Frankly, I find many of these discussions of "canon" with regards to a work of art as open to interpretation as SH2 to be a bit ludicrous to begin with. It always strikes me as if people are begging to be told what to think.
I just think its lazy, put in as an afterthought 😅
Accurate
That would be circumcision theory, actually.
That one is a hood classic
I see it less a theory and more a wiki editors prolonged mental breakdown.
it was my first thought too
That was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the title.
Legendary schizophrenic meltdown
Look at this photograph
Which one?
Every time I do it makes me laugh.
There's a mod for that
HAHA!
How did our eyes get so red?
I saw the title and thought you were going to be seriously analyzing the silent hill 4 circumcision theory. I am pleasantly surprised to be wrong!
If Max DOES ever cover it, we know he's lost it like the OP did.
@@MapleFried But there's could be a multiverse where he hasn't. How do you know that Damon8378 isn't in the collective unconscious?
@@milkman6218 Oh shit you're right!
What SH4 circumcision theory? I uh.. wha
The circumcision theory is the stupidest Silent Hill theory, not the most controversial
It's not a loop, it's a spiral
Sorry, wrong game
It's not a lake, its an ocean
Funny enough there is a spiral key in the game you have to use before going further down. Could we say it's a downward spiral?
lmao
Underated comment
An "Anti-Spiral"
You (the player) have been mentally stuck in SH2 for 2 decades.
It's not wrong. I played the game when it came out, and I have never stopped being obsessed with it, or the silent hill series, since. I'm 39 now.
This was my first assumption when I saw the message. It makes since on a number of levels because the story in 2 is just so attractive compared to anything to do with a cult.
@@chronostreamteknys704 I think Silent Hill 2's story is a blessing in disguise. It was very fresh for the time, but you cannot repeat the plot twist once you did it once. "Something bad happened in your past, you repressed the memory, and the town is your personal spooky therapist". After the original devs left due to being tired of working on the same franchise for years on a tight schedule, the SH2's premise was copied over and over and over again by new devs. And it didn't work, and it wouldn't work.
At least with a cult, you can surprise the player by who did a ritual, when, how, and what result is coming. But even THAT won't be surprising since SH3 ended that story, and SH4 ended it even more.
imo I think they were meaning when the first game was done that started James's purgatory loop, which continued to be played and obsessed over for 20 years. Just my guess, but it felt right to me
this remake is proof by virtue of it's own existence.
There is a TV in Brookhaven hospital's cafeteria and also in the nurse's lounge that transmit a looped message in Morse code: "AGAIN AND". I personally prefer when there is no "official" explanations or as little "canon" about any particular theory as possible. The game is better when you don't know for sure.
I find myself thinking about this game even though it has been almost a month since I finished it. I cannot properly describe the feeling while I was playing it. It was like a combination of loneliness, despair, abandonement and eeriness if that makes any sense. Weirdly, it gives me some peace, somehow. I don't know why.
Maybe because you're like a fly in the wall and not experienced this type of torment yourself.
Felt the same playing the original version all those years ago.
It feels peaceful because youre slowly working through your trauma which may seem more traumatic, but in reality is what one needs in order to heal. Otherwise you end up like our good ol' buddy james who is in denial and never escapes it.
Cuz this series is wild af. 2 is the generally preferred favorite but 3 is also fantastic. I played the og when it was new and I’ve been thinking about it all that time. It’s like a really good book or movie, but interactive
@@odolwa099yeah it’s crazy. The remake still has that same vibe. It’s stirred up all this conversation again. Love it
I think it is a matter of interpretation. Silent Hill 2 never truly had a sequel. You don't find out what happened to James in 3 or 4, so you, the player, are left to come to your own conclusions.
It's mentioned somewhere in 4 that James never made it out of Silent Hill.
@@sycamorph well. Not exactly. His father, Frank, who was the landlord of South Ashfield Heights, never saw his son again. That he never saw James again, does not necessarily mean that James never left Silent Hill, it just means that if he did escape, he left his old life behind.
@@shawnwolf5961in the remake i think there is a motel room. #207? That is suspiciously implied to be James'
James chooses to stay in silent Hill but he has reconciled with himself.
What that means? I don't think it means that's why his corpse is everywhere because he chose to stay.
In the end that's his choice his corpses are previous failures. That DOESNT make it a time loop. If anything it means silent Hill is enjoying and feeding off his delusions.
The 20 year thing? Yeah the town isn't exactly truthful and forthcoming.
@@sycamorph its mentioned he went missing in Silent Hill it doesnt mean any specific ending is canon
@@sycamorph What Shawn above said makes perfect sense if we assume James got the Leave Ending, and later hid his identity in order to raise Laura very similar to how _Harry Mason_ did in order to raise Alessa while hiding from Dahlia's cult.
I dislike it for a simpler reason: This theory has become so big and obstructing that it started overtaking any other interpration from the last 20 years. Instead of allowing countless different interpretations to thrive, new fans and outsiders, (even insiders) declare the stupid time loop fantheory to be the one and only interpretation that matters now. Just like google search results for the original Silent Hill 2 are phased out and disappeared thanks to the remake, this time loop theory will slowly phase out and replace every other theory that existed about this game. Future generations might only remember SH2 as "ohh, that game with that timeloop". And this is a scary outlook to think about.
Damn that fucking sucks…. But I still think it can be interpreted as “we” the players have been here for 20 years and therefore doesn’t interrupt any other theory
Agreed, there's a ton of crackpot theories that are fun to examine, even if there aren't a lot of arguments to defend them it's cool that people can ponder on them, but the time loop theory is the most basic one that pretty much screams "everything is possible and all the endings are canon", it's better for the franchise to leave things in ambiguity instead of leaning on giving clear answers, otherwise as you said SH2 could be remembered as "that game with the timeloop" and nothing else.
They should've hinted to the circumcision theory instead - that one is at least funny, time loop is just dumb.
@@Flying_Basset I keep reading "circumsicion", and all i can think of is that jewish procedure where a young child gets his "package" cut in half. Like, what's with the use of such a word?
yep, the mutated past manifesting as present truth overtaking the old facts it built itself on to begin with.
The main elements of the Time Loop Theory at its core are that Silent Hill is a place that "calls" for certain people, so they can confront their own sins and inner demons, being stuck in a never-ending time loop where they will suffer for as long as the town wills it.
The most evident flaws of the Time Loop Theory are:
1. Why is Laura there?
2. Why does the town manifest this "Time Loop" only for the characters of SH2? (Given that the previous game and every later entry of the franchise never operate under this premise)
3. What is its conclusion? or to put it more simply: Does the time loop ever end?
To elaborate on the previous flaws:
1. Why is Laura there?
It makes no sense for Laura to be stuck in the time loop alongside the other "sinners". If the town traps people in a time loop of endless torment, then Laura has no reason to be trapped, even throughout the story we notice that Laura never sees any monsters or anything threatening, the town has no way of tormenting her.
Some people argue that Laura is not real, she's just like Maria being created by the town and she's there to guide James to uncover the truth of his own crime. There are a lot of inconsistencies with this assumption, in the case of Maria we can confirm that she is created by the town and only James see her, the story carefully separates Maria from other characters so the player never notices that only James can see her (Maria "conveniently" misses the opportunity to ever meet Eddie and Laura), but Laura casually interacts both Eddie and James, and even though Maria tries to get her attention after she runs from James out of the bowling alley/cinema and through the hospital, Laura never acknowledges Maria, even though Laura is clearly looking for Mary, you'd think she'd be pleasantly surprised to at least hear Mary's voice calling for her. So obviously Laura is a real person like everyone else.
Continuing with the assumption that Laura isn't real, some people argue that within the time loop Laura is supposed to be some sort of "guide", she's the innocent guide who is tasked with leading the sinners to accept their sins and find their redemption. More problems arise from this, like why would the town create Laura specifically, given that she would only be relevant to James, why do we never see her interact with Angela if she is supposed to guide everyone, it would be ideal for a little girl to guide Angela but that is never brought up. If we assume that she's only a guide for James, then she kinda sucks as a guide, all the hints that James receive come from himself (he either finds clues on his own, or Maria leads him, which is basically the same as James leading himself given that Maria was created from his own psyche).
To conclude this Laura topic, it feels like within the Time Loop Theory she only exists as a narrative resource for James to realize that Mary passed away recently, her whole existence in the time loop is to step on James hand so he can't grab a key and eventually tell him that she "turned 8 last week" so James can reflect on his own memory.
2. Why does the town manifest this "Time Loop" only for the characters of SH2? (Given that the previous game and every later entry of the franchise never operate under this premise)
No Silent Hill story seems to be written with the idea of the time loop in mind, so it's weird that only Silent Hill 2 would have it. If you know the lore of Silent Hill then you know why the town is the way it is and what are the forces that rule the town. Just to keep things short I will say that it's extremely unlikely that Alessa or "The Order" would manifest a time loop within the town just to trap four random people and then do absolutely nothing with them, you'd think that if they wanted to trap people in a time loop it would serve some kind of purpose that would benefit the cult or prevent the birth of a god depending of which side prepared the time loop, but nope, only Silent Hill 2 has a time loop theory and the concept of it is never introduced as part of the lore of any other Silent Hill game.
Funny enough, Silent Hill 3 technically has a time loop that is canonically there in the form of an easter egg, without going into too much detail in case someone hasn't played it yet, the easter egg is a creepy implication that when the protagonist of SH3 dies a monster will drag her away to revive her so she can continue her journey of suffering, basically telling you that even death won't let you escape the torment. This easter egg in Silent Hill 3 is the closest thing to a canonical time loop in the franchise, and even in SH3 the easter egg itself is not canon.
3. What is its conclusion? or to put it more simply: Does the time loop ever end?
There are two possible answers that people give, one is that the time loop never ends, and the other is that the time loop ends once the "sinner" has accepted their sins and found a way to move overcoming their inner struggle.
For the case of the time loop that never ends, it is presented the idea that whenever James reaches an "ending" (either he dies because of the monsters or actually reaches a conclusion, like the actual endings of the game) he simply returns to that bathroom just overlooking Toluca Lake at the beginning of the game, his memories are whipped and he sets off once again to a journey that will bring him nothing but pain for all eternity. The same applies to the others (including Laura, which I already explained how it doesn't make sense for her to be stuck in a time loop).
For the case of the time loop ending once the sinners overcome their inner struggle, it would be implied that James eventually escapes the time loop upon reaching the "Leave" ending, which btw is the only way for Laura to escape the time loop, I know I'm past the "Why is Laura there?" point, but it seriously makes no sense for her to be stuck in Silent Hill until James decides to come to terms with his crime, she's literally unable to do anything to escape the time loop on her own, she has no inner demons to fight, she has no torments to overcome, she's forced to wait until James remembers that he killed Mary to discover this truth, and then she has to hope that James won't throw his own life away or choose to leave with Maria in denial of his own actions, like seriously, why is Laura even stuck in a time loop?
Time Loop Theory 2/10
- The story wasn't written with the time loop in mind.
- Why is Laura even there?
- Too many inconsistencies.
- Silent Hill doesn't work that way, no game before or after has ever worked that way, those that tried to do it kinda sucked narratively (I'm looking at you Downpour)
- Time Loop is just a theory, not canon.
- Seriously, why is Laura stuck in a time loop? Not canon.
Well said indeed and quite a well written one. Thanks for a fun read there, dear.
Silent Hill as a whole is riddled with inconsistencies in it's plot and what the town is supposed to represent. I stick to the idea that it's largely just a sort of purgatory where dead or dying people go. After all the game is largely inspired by Jacob's ladder which itself is a reference to the biblical story of Jacob with the ladder representing purgatory. Jacob(in the movie not the bible) who largely inspired the design and some of the back story of James is stuck in a confusing series of events leading up to the big twist that he's slowly dying and never left Vietnam. Jacob is stuck in a loop in which he constantly wakes up reliving events of his life with each iteration getting worse than the last.
I like to think of James as being dead and Silent Hill being the place he finds himself stuck in to live out the guilt his unconscious mind torments him with. Laura is a representation of James' desires to have a child that never came to fruition. Eddie and Angela are also dead while experiencing their own unique purgatory. Eddie and Angela however could also be just representations of James' internal desires and issues. The latter is less likely though since the graveyard scene with the three headstones seems to imply the characters are dead already and must face their death.
After all, tis doubt which leadeth thee to purgatory. Or at least that's what the key in the game said. Purgatory itself is believed to also be a place where lost souls experience their demise over and over again as well as parts of their lives. They can't accept the fact that they're dead and appear to live on a loop. We know Maria comes back every time she dies. Why can't Silent Hill just bring James back every time he dies? Why does it even have to let any of them go?
Of course there are many interpretations of Silent Hill 2. Obviously the UFO ending is the correct one and all of the characters have been abducted by aliens that are thrusting the characters into a simulation where the plot rules are loose as well as designed to torment them with their subconscious guilt and desires. The alien menace is hyper fixated on a sick obsession with exploring the minds of humans to understand how they work.
Cirno is the strongest indeed
In the case of Laura and her status in the Loop Theory, there's a very easy and simple explanation: she's completely and utterly _oblivious_ of said loop everytime James resets it and triggers it all over again. Basically put, Laura has no awareness that she's experiencing travelling through the town over and over again due to the simple fact that the town of Silent Hill doesn't see her as a guilt-ridden person with any reason to realize she's part of an endless loop. Since time in the real world doesn't continue while James and co. remain trapped in the loop, Laura remains completely unaware of the circumstances she's a part of, courtesy of her aforementioned lack of guilt and trauma.
With all the above said, i personally don't lean on the loop theory to seriously consider it.
Perhaps it is a version of hell, in which doesn't reveal itself to be and keeps silent about the fact. Therefore, a Silent Hell. Playing on their subconscious in such a way that will last for an eternity until they find a way to sort out the inner demons that haunt their soul. Never allowed to leave until they manage to realize it and do what is required... Just a theory. The whole concept of Silent Hill always stood out to me in such a unique way that completely separates itself from any other concept of horror as its own separate element, if that makes sense. Which I think is why it peaks everyone's curiosity, the way that it does. (I'm going to paste this in Max's pinned comment, but this comment is what helped me to put my theory into words in a way that makes sense for some reason) I tend to make a point not to promote my own on others pages, but only because there are so many true fans of this series, I invite you to take a look at my cinematic series that is currently ongoing, that expresses my own unique view of the gameplay through the thorough editing I put into it.
wrapping this back to pt was the cherry on top! that intro quote always stuck with me. “watch out. the gap in the door, it’s a separate reality.”
I think one of the biggest holes in the time loop theory is the other people caught in it, mainly Laura, the innocent little girl who has no reason to be caught in such a thing. Also, there's the fact that Eddie doesn't see the corpses as James, but rather he sees them as the guy he shot before fleeing to Silent Hill, proving that the appearance of the corpses as we, the players, see them are just a projection of James' mind. The other evidence for the time loop theory is just fans overthinking fouth wall breaking easter eggs.
Magical town, anything possible
It means YOU, the player, has been here for 2 decades. Silent Hill 2 was released in 2001. And now, here you are again, 20+ years later, playing it all over again.
Unironically, I think this is the best read on it.
i was born in 2007 so was i?
Silent hill 2 isn’t the type to make players dig dig dig just to give a useless message like that. There’s definitely some meaning to it.
@@jayjayvah The Silent Hill series as a whole is known for silly and whimsical easter eggs and joke endings, some of which are cryptic to get. Not to mention that this is a remake done by a different dev team, who could've wanted to reward their fans with this message directed at the fans themselves.
It means both.
I remember reading the reddit thread and was like, “oh that’s a neat Easter egg for us fans.” Turned off my computer and went to bed. I woke up and people began a flame war over it being part of the canonical lore. It honestly feels like an Easter egg message for the player.
There is no timeloop, there is no multiverse. None of this is ever suggested in any of the four games. Not once. Silent Hill is not some kind of post-modern M night shamaylan film. It's 4 games where the protagonist faces their shadow-self, and either succeed or fail based on the actions of you, the player. That's the reason all endings are canon, because whichever ending you get is the ending that's real. This is not an MCU movie, there is no infinity stone, there are no time loops.
Like it or not, believe it or not, the otherworld and the fog world by extension is a parallel universe, they exist at the same time as the real world that the people of Silent Hill live on. So if there are more than two realities that's what a multiverse is, so... Good luck sleeping tonight with that.
@@kevinalfaro7150Didn't Masahiro Ito say there are no multiple dimensions or whatever? That it's all happening in the same reality or something like that?
@kevinalfaro7150 that's not what a multiverse is. Unless your definition of "multiverse" means a dreamworld, created by psychic energy, localized to one specific area. And if you asked a random reasonable person whether this qualifies as a multiverse, they would say no. You're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
We see constant references to dreams, psychics, the collective unconscious, and the power of belief across the 4 games. We do not see references to multiverses or time loops.
@@VocalSynthUtau You should see what a parallel universe is and that it fits on what a multiverse is. A multiverse is not a concrete concept that only fits one kind of interpretation, there are vary, The Matrix is considered one too, even though it is placed in the same reality as their real world. It really depends on how you see things, it is like asking if it's possible to travel through time, but as we know time is relative and if an object moves closer to the speed of light time goes faster to this object.
Oh, I just want to make one thing clear, I'm not defending the Time loop theory, as it is shitty, stupid, and doesn't fit with the game and the canon with other games
@@kevinalfaro7150 Dreams and nightmares that is it.
The photo puzzle was simply meant to be a message to the fans, not about James
How do you know that?
You’re Wrong.
@@misterjakester Alessa dosent have time lopping powers
@@jamesconlin-90s How is Alessa related to SH2's events?
@@misterjakesterthe game came out 20 years ago and as far as I know the remake doesn’t take place in the 2010s. The dead bodies are meant to be nods to the original and the creative director himself questions the theory. At most the game playfully acknowledges the fan theory without taking it seriously
I personally like the idea of the secret message being a fourth-wall break. It's been 20 years since Silent Hill 2, yet here you are, again, playing through James' story. That itself is a time loop.
Though, I suppose it's more likely that the multiverse time loop idea is the right one, given the differences between this game and the original being acknowledged in-game, like Maria's original outfit.
While I'm personally weary of multiverses, I can see how the devs would go towards the idea, since Silent Hill is a series with multiple endings and grapples with the convoluted nature of the mind and alternate realities. It's fine that they do it, I don't think it ruins anything, I just feel a bit burnt out by the trend.
I highly doubt that Team Silent was thinking of multiverses or time loops.
I got this notification and immediately got war flashbacks to the "Silent Hill Foreskin Theory" after reading the title.
At least it's not that
The time loop crap is just another case of modern devs yet again feeling the need to explain everything without leaving place to subtleties, mystery and speculation.
max i never get tired of your silent hill content!
I don't think Masahiro's comment should be understood as the possibility of a multiverse (or at least not as that being the only canon option). I think he wanted to tell people that they probably shouldn't focus too much on what the devs think to be the "correct" interpretation of silent hill 2, but rather that it's much more important what you personally think to be the correct interpretation. None of the endings and popular theories are more canon than others. As Masahiro said they all work if you think that they work. Now of course you could argue that in the game world this could only be the case if the multiverse theory were correct, but I disagree that multiple "canon" endings automatically means that they all have to exist simultaneously in the fictional world. Of course that does not mean that a multiverse could not be possible, if you think that it is.
Also, if you want to take the position that the original author's opinion on what is canon matters more than the audience's, then I think we should also discuss whether the remake of silent hill 2 is more something akin to a retelling by some other author. What I mean is the fictional world in the remake of silent hill 2 is a different one to the original. If you take that position, the time loop theory is only "canon" in the remake and not the original. This is why I personally don't like approaches to media that are too focused on what the authors think. In my opinion, every piece of media is a collaboration between the author, the audience and any other piece of media that existed before it.
Yes yes yes! I see it the same way, art is a collaborative effort between the artist and the audience. I grow so tired of this idea that the artist's viewpoints are the final word on everything, as if they get to forever dictate what everyone else thinks. The artist's viewpoints can be interesting and certainly can help inform the audience interpretation, but in the end it's just their own interpretation, which doesn't need to be everyone's interpretation.
As far as Ito's comments on the endings, I just take it that they're all canon in the sense that the true canon ending is the one the player gets. That's how their story ended. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
"Stillness" hurt me in ways I thought SH2 couldn't hurt me anymore
I personally don't like the timeloop theory as it comes across as some video game metacommentary which doesn't really fit Silent Hill's style. It also harms the overall messages of the story and the fact that any of the optional endings are even possible. So instead I view it as more of indirect mood details that reflect James' mental state, of how he feels disoriented and uncertain about the nature of the world he is in, of engaging with it like he is in a psychosis and keeps seeing projections of his own mental state in it. He keeps seeing visions of himself everywhere because that ties to his own subconscious thoughts, he keeps feeling like he's been here before because mentally he has gone through these ideas over and over again, having been stuck for 3 years in a situation that broke him down. The hidden message seems more like a direct message to the player and it is very much true. For video game industry, for the developers, for the fans, this game came out and stayed in our minds forever. The developers think about it to this day, the industry thinks about it to this day, the fans think about it to this day, etc. We never left and we never want to leave. This is our Samsara that we're willingly stuck in.
But that's just how I see it. Maybe it is cope about it actually tying more literally into the narrative which I don't like at all. Maria ending is a possibility but it's not the only possible path James may end up taking. The loop fits Maria ending but not really the rest so forcing its ideas into the rest feels like a point is being missed. The different endings show that all of these are a possibility for James, that he is in a superposition and about to take one of these directions as they're all true to him in different ways. But if the loop is canon to all of the game, then a lot of these optional paths become lies even though the narrative and theming supports all of them, so that would create a conflict in the narrative which seems weird since without this idea everything works. So all in all I don't view the loop idea as exactly literal, as the literal interpretation only fits Maria ending but not really the rest, and the game as a whole needs for all of the endings to be properly possible. Excluding joke endings of course, but I doubt that needed to be said.
I can't Stand the Term "Multiverse" anymore...
the SHCMU
Neither the puzzle nor its solution or ramifications is acknowledged by James, but by the player directly.
Silent Hill 1 was released in 1999. Silent Hill 2 began development that same year.
This was 25 years ago. Silent Hill has captured our imaginations ever since.
It's interesting, this just reminded me of that audio log in The Evil Within where Ruvik talks about the effects on subjects plugged into the collective unconsciousness machine, he says something bout "degradation of the ego causes strong suicidal tendencies". And Tear Sickness in BioShock Infinite, it's a really cool concept
3:20 Speaking of Thanatos. The "In Water"'s ending, the song that plays is Angel's Thanatos.
I super appreciate that shortly after 6:35 you put instrumentality in the background. You knew where my mind went when you started talking about unconsciousness soup.
its sad to imagine someone who cant escape silent hill at all
None other than Harry and Cheryl did.
@@mateusfolletto6142 And Travis, and Alex, and Murphy, and Ann.
Theres no evidence of this ever happening in any of the three games.
@@javiervasquez625 didn't Alex get drowned by the cult to appease God? And hasn't the trucker man been burned?
@@mateusfolletto6142 What? Somehow, i have a feeling you've never played either Homecoming or Downpour, but i digress, Alex Shephard is the _protagonist_ of Homecoming with a story which parallels that of many other protagonists in the franchise, and Murphy Pendleton is the protagonist of Downpour who's story also does the same.
From my interpretations I've generally thought of it, as was mentioned in the video, that James see's aspects of himself in death or agony, and as to why they appear the way that they do, is nothing different to what else is reflected in the town through the unconscious as shown through monsters. But to add onto that, the premise of the loop neglects that James see's something at times that others see as well, but it is interpreted differently to him. Eddie see's the man he shot, James see's himself. Angela see's her father, James see's a monster. The other question as well that may not be asked is why only his bodies? If Jame's unconscious is revealing to him multiple realities of his own loop, why are there no other elements that repeat such as the bodies of Eddie and Angela? Why are there no additional clues outside a very abstract series of photographs? That's just my person take though.
I think the message it's trying to say that James, in his mindset, has never truly left silent hill. He constantly talks about how he used to love the town and how he and Mary used to enjoy it so much.
Time loop seems unlikely to me just because literally no SH character MC or NPC has remarked on time being strange. And I don't think a writer could resist at least making oblique reference to time if this was the thing.
Like as mysterious as Dark Souls can be, one of the very first things a "sane" NPC tells you? "Time is convoluted."
I don't think they'd outright state it if the loop theory was true, but it would be part of the text in a slightly more foregrounded way than just a pile of James corpses.
That first paragraph of yours is prettyuch my thoughts as well. There is no elusion to a time loop in 1, 3, or 4. I suppose you could say theres little to no themes of guilt in those games either, but I'm just not convinced.
The corpses as I see it are a convenient asset re-use as well as a suggestion that James has self destructive thoughts.
@@yams7355 You mean "allusion" 🤡
6:45 God dam it. I knew it the second Thanatos got mentioned
11:03 No, it could cause his sense of self to deteriorate. It's not a foregone conclusion. Take your bread explanation, for example. Not only would that create a new reality, but essentially, it would create a new version of the person.
Our decisions are what make us and if there is a scenario where you have a version of yourself who makes a lot of different decisions that lead them down a different path from you, than they are fundamentally a different person from you. We are not made by the universe. We are made by ourselves. By the decisions we make and the actions we take.
I can never get enough of silent hill analyses, especially yours! This game is so unique it NEVER gets old. There is so much love, care and passion put into it, it clearly shows. The game really feels like it has a "soul", unlike most. I haven't had the chance to play it yet and I'm so looking forward to the day I get my hands on it.
I have to admit though, I didn't have the brains to realise what was going on when I watched the cutscene compilation of the game. You helped me see the marvel that this game is and also got me to look more into Alchemy and psychology. I'm thankful and I'm looking forward to your next videos Max!
I know I’m probably wrong but my first instinct was that this was the developers telling people to touch grass.
I've actually personally wandered into the collective unconscious writing Silent Hill fanfic, incidentally. It was honestly scary how I had stumbled into a cacophony of "Green Lion Eating the Sun" imagery with absolutely zero knowledge of alchemy at the time or any knowledge whatsoever that this was a famous symbol in that mythology.
I didn't even know what vitriol was at the time and just called it "green acid."
There could be islamic influence aswell, which would make A LOT more sense and support the time loop theory. SPOILERS AHEAD:
1. The punishment for self-ending in islam is that the person will experience the events which lead to this, over and over again. The ending in which James drives into the lake and the hidden message seem to approve this.
2. After death, ones soul will stay in a place called 'barzakh" which means something like barrier in arabic. Its a world somewhat like ours, where the dead ones cannot interact with the still living ones and vice versa. Every dead person waits in this world for God to begin judgement day und resurrect the dead once more. Depending on your deeds, you may experience the punishment of the grave, before the real punishment, which is hell. But if your deeds were in the favor of God or a child dies before reaching puberty, it is promised by god, to be a relaxing and good place to wait for the day of judgement with paradise as the final destination. This would also explain why Laura doesnt see monsters aswell.
3. It is narrated, that the first persons you will meet are the ones on the left and right side to your grave. There is a scene, which shows james grave inbetween Angela and Eddie (the only two real human we ever meet during this journey). This would also explain, why they are in Silent Hill in the first place, even though they feel very random and unimportant to James in the first sight, if we go by this narrative.
4. If a person dies disobeying God, like not praying, fasting or doing good deeds, a humanoid figure with very rotten flesh and stench will be formed. Like before, as paradise is promised for children who died before the age of puberty, they will not experience any punishment. Neither in 'barzakh' nor on the day of judgement. Again explaing, why Laura isnt very scared to be in Silent Hill in the first place.
5. There are Angels, who will perform the punishment of the grave by the command of God, until the day of judgement. The punishment is very specific to what sins the person has done, but not repent before death. I know its a reach, but seeing Maria/Mary die and pyramid Head himself, could be those named Angels which are responsible for punishing James for what he has done to her.
I am by far not an expert in islamic religion, but there are very detailed narrations by the prophet Muhammed or in the Quran itself, which caught my attention playing Silent Hill 2, so there are a lot more narations, which could explain Silent Hill in an by now quite unorthodox way.
This video was amazing. Thank you for your hard work.
This was a fun video to watch, unexpected but a warm welcome 😁
I really expected this to be a very simple video explaining what Time Loop theory was and the pros and cons of it being canon but instead got one of the most thought provoking, interesting videos I've watched in a very long time
9:35 they're manifestations of the punishment james feels he deserves for what he did to mary, there aren't literal corpses of him around town, those are just regular dead bodies that his mind is applying his own image to within his perception
Any time there's a time loop in fiction, there is what's an assumed "master time line"... That the rest of the world moves forward in some way. If he is in a time loop, he can't have been experiencing the loop for twenty years, because there's no outside to compare it to. He could have done it 20 times, or spent 20 years, cumulatively, in the loop... But to say he had been in a loop for 20 years of effectively meaningless.
I think, if it's not him projecting himself on to the corpses as manifestations of his failures, your nodal intersection idea is the only one with logical consistency worth considering.
It doesn’t really matter, see… This series is, as we are, abandoned. Reliving the same stories doesn’t progress us. We are not going anywhere. We are stuck. No resolution for us. No one can let go.
personally, I've always felt that every ending is canon. Though, I don't think it's a 'cop out' to no need to commit to a single ending either.
Though, I remember an interpretation of the time loop theory that kinda runs in the middle of a stable time loop and multiverse theory.
And the answer to 'is the only me, me?' question is 'yes, but it's also fine if there's more than one me too, bc I can't see through the eyes of all those other me's even if they are me'.
I'm too selfish to care if there are other me's cuz the one I'm looking through the eyes of is the only one that currently matters....
Or, something like that.
There was a hole here. It's gone now.
That was entirely too much fun, thank you. Stay yellow and happy holiday-convergence to you too.
You posted this just as I finished your Sulent hill theories video. Impeccable timing!
What's weird is how Silent Hill 2 makes me feel nostalgic, but at the same time, the franchise gives a vibe of anti-nostalgia.
What cinches loop theory for me is the body you find with the old map and the instructions to help the next James. The Old Map makes a sound every time you inspect it. This was not a dead body that merely looked like James, but a James from the original game.
We as the players have gone through the game more than once, thus loop theory is also a meta reference to the players who keep playing again to get a new ending or just for fun.
I really just think loop theory is itself a reference to the movie that inspired Silent Hill as a series which is Jacob's ladder. The movie is pretty much about purgatory and learning to accept death. Even the name of the movie is a reference to the biblical story of Jacob getting a ladder to ascend to the after life. The ladder representing purgatory and the journey to the after life. If you can't accept you're dead, you pretty much are in a loop.
The loop theory connects the 2001 original and the remake together, explaining James's memories of the past events.
If I'm going with an in-universe explanation (meaning, NOT 'it's all just the devs having fun'), then my favorite is:
Those are James corpses, he has been stuck in the loop, but only a handful of laps.
The loop might have gone on for 20 years outside, but James has only done a few previous loops.
Those are his corpses and notes, and he places the photos to make himself aware during later loops
I do enjoy your theory as that would truly be a fresh hell. Convincing yourself that you've died over and over and there's no way out of this town of monsters and mists that are tailored made to punish you. It's also interesting that if multiverse theory is correct, wouldn't that mean there has to be at least one where James escapes, or doesn't end up there? Or do you think he's cosmically doomed in every iteration?
Some people get so mad at the loop theory, and it's not even confirmed, you can decide to believe it or not, doesn't change a thing.
Informative as always.
So basically Silent Hill 2 is Bioshock Infinite, I'm sure that won't cause plot holes the size of craters and destroy all interpretations. I don't think Max realizes how mad the Silent Hill subreddit is gonna be lol.
I'm very much an outsider. But the way I see it, one of the worst things a horror story can do is over-explain things. Fear and the unknown go hand in hand. Having a complete understanding of any aspect of a horror setting makes it less scary. Rules should only be working theories based on observation at best. I think it's best if the town and its myriad mysteries remain as such. Open to interpretation, naturally. But without a definitive answer.
1:03 I have to say that I am not at all a fan of the time Loop theory. I can't stand the idea of the original Silent Hill 2 being a cannon history in the remake. My attitude with all of this has been that it's fine if you do your own thing but don't tamper with the original. This is tampering with the original.
As an aside, I think this might be a Twin Peaks reference. This is going to be a very big stretch, but I believe this, or something similar, might be what Laura whispered in Cooper's ear in the Black Lodge at the beginning of Twin Peaks season 3.
1:52 I'm of a similar mindset, although instead of just being hesitant to accept it, I outright reject it.
I view the loop theory the same way I do the Dog and Alien endings. It’s cool and fun but no need for much deeper thought than being a fun video game Easter egg. It’s more tongue in cheek than dramatic and revealing.
Something to keep in mind regarding the collective unconscious that could lead to a misunderstanding otherwise:
It's not that we all are connected to "the collective unconscious" like computers are connected via the internet.
It's "collective" in the sense of commonalities of unconscious content between different human brains (like e.g. Archetypes).
Which is due to the same brain structure of every human.
I like your convergence theory. In a way, it mirrors the unification of a fractured psyche into The Self. Conversely, it also speaks to the unsettling idea that one must grapple with the many paths in life they did not take, and all the existential dread that comes with that. Seeing only dead copies and not living ones implies, perhaps, that you're on the "right" path, though.
7:24 but the original team silent devs said that what james sees as abstract daddy is completely different to what angela saw, all angela saw was her father
Robbie o Coelho has one of the most dense material of Silent Hill on youtube
As always a well researched and deeply thought out piece of work Max - Thankyou.
I actually like the time loop theory and I'll explain why. My view of the town of Silent Hill differs slightly from the view many people seem to have. They mention the town "calling" to James, and almost guiding him through the town with the intentional purpose of working him through his trauma and guilt. I personally view the role of the town as much more passive.
I believe Silent Hill is more like a ball of clay that molds itself to fit the Psyche of inhabitants with strong enough emotional forces. It is simply an Alessa power vacuum that morphs to fit certain minds. James comes to the town with the plan to drive into the lake with his wife's body, and once he enters he crosses the plane that separates reality from the metaphysical side of Silent Hill and from that point on he is an a world morphing around his psyche. This is the reason there is fog covering the town and giant scaffold covered in white cloth blocking parts of the town. These are not fully formed areas of the world, imperfect missing parts of the scattered memory of the town itself.
Here is where I believe the time loop comes in. Rather than the world being sort of amusement park ride of horror with an intentional ending, it is simply the physical manifestation of a tortured mind as a place. He doesn't make it out of the end of the game simply because he reaches the end and that is where you get off the ride, he only gets out once he faces his true actions and confronts his trauma and guilt, and is able to achieve the "Leave" ending. The reason is simple. How can someone escape a realm (or plane or illusion, whichever you prefer) that is a literal manifestation of being trapped within their suicidal, traumatized and dissociated mind? The only true way out would be to set their psyche straight and accepting reality enough that they are able to simply walk out without being assaulted on all sides by manifestations of their shadow. Any other ending in the game has James refusing to face his guilt and ease his mind, whether that be simply giving up and driving into the lake, attempting to block out the whole thing and accept the false reality of Maria, or trying to "get out of jail free" and undo his unforgivable sin by performing a rebirth ritual. All of these methods of escaping his psychotic collapse are attempts to run away from the issues in his psyche rather than sort them out, and only result on him being trapped in the same illusion he started in. It's also why all the endings can be canon, they just keep him trapped in the same place until the final ending, "leave" is achieved.
This is why I like the time loop. Each corpse is a James that couldn't break through the lies and delusions he told himself and ended up walking in circles or trying and failing to escape. As the note at the end of the road by the Historical Society says, "I can ONLY leave by not leaving." James is stuck in his own mindscape, and is only able to leave once he suffers through and makes his mind a place that isn't a figurative and literal (Toluca) prison. Not because Silent Hill consciously wants him to, but because the only way to leave a room with no doors is to build one.
Great video. Fascinating analysis. I find your multiverse theory more plausible than the loop. Makes more sense now. Dip, out. ;)
Every playthrough of this game is a branch into James' multiverse with our own personal experience, which is how the collective consciousness is able to happen. Branches are technically all happening at the same time even though the starting point could have been from anytime since the game has been released. That letter is only true if you've been playing the same save file for 20 years, if only 1 person actually did that then that letter will appear for every timeline.
Great video . I love to listen to explanations on the lore and physiological reasoning of this game and this one seems legit and on par. Keep it up!
I got goosebumps when you told is what the photos say.
I’m 45 I’ve played the original many times and the remake once.
This game is incredible, it just keeps on giving
It really sucks that whenever new silent hill 2 theories and content come out, its about the shitty ass remake instead of the real game
Whether the loop theory is real or not, the fact that the devs forced us to discuss the theory is in itself a W. They really nailed this game.
A multiverse was also a well-known interpretation of the "Silent Hills" title.
After modern Mortal Kombat releases, we don't need multiverse slop seeping into SH
@@The4thSnake I guess mortal Kombat is finally dying, in no small part due to the fan fiction multiverse wankery you love so much, so now it's time for you to Stink up another decades old franchise with embarrassing fan fiction 🤮
@VocalSynthUtau You need to listen well and think clearly. I doubt Max would like you driving away his fans and viewers with your elitest demeanor. Perhaps you are on the spectrum and do not know how to disagree without sounding rude? Maybe you are just an A-hat? Think, consider, THEN speak.
The final bit about the dissolution of James ego for all intents and purposes tying the time loop theory in is a really clever button on this!
Finally, hes talking about waltuhs fiveskin
Gg and happy holidays max
Do you mean Marvel Thanatos Is the concept Of death impulse in general
So it's a f'd up version of Groundhog Day.
It's called hell or purgatory
That could be Higurashi as well.
For me, finding the map with the notes on it proves it. The photos are 50 percent 4th wall breaking and 50 percent confirmation of some theory that james has been there before.
The strongest argument for the time loop theory is the movie "Lost Highway" which Silent Hill 2 is pretty much based on.
I still really hate the idea, for a very simple reason. It reduces all the other characters and their choices. James has leway. He can change enough to be an entirely different person in each of these loops. Yet everyone else is always stuck. Eddie wil always go insane and try to kill James. Angela will always kill herself. It takes away from these great characters. They can never change anything in an infinite loop.
I would argue that none of of the other people are people. They are figments of James. His sexual impulses towards a bedridden and mentally unstable wife, his self hatred and juvenile frustration that bursts into murderous rage. The only real person in the whole game is James himself.
Just hearing the term "multiverse" makes me cringe. I need a decade-long break from ever hearing that or seeing it used in any form of media.
Even the ending of Arcaane Season 2 jumped the shark and introduced mutliverse nonsense.🙄
Lets not ruin Silent Hill 2 and retcon it with multiverse shlock.
Ok simpleton. Most of us enjoy the idea of a multiverse.
Everytime max ask if we've been passively listening, I'm like "he's talking to me" during a elden ring or rise of the ronin session
happy new year! love the video :3
Nickleback: Look at this photograph!
James: ...have you seen my wife?Her name is Mary.
On version 1.0 when James plays the piano he plays Magdalene in full. All 7 notes. Magdalene begins and ends with the same note. It's basically 1 2 3 4 3 2 1, 1 2 3 4 3 2 1, repeat. That is what James would play.
The day 1 patch changed this. He now plays 2 3 4 3 2 1, 2 3 4 3 2 1. They changed it so James is now making the end of one cycle, the beginning of the next, and also that the first note in Magdalene has already been played. This isn't James first loop, and when he gets to the end he's already started the next cycle.
The reason why Silent Hill 2 it became a classic is because eventually people began to see how unique, eerie, melancholic and authentic the game's atmosphere it really is, and took the time to enjoy its deeply thoughtful narrative and symbolism. To this day it’s by far one of, if not the most mature examination of grief, sexual trauma, suicide, and morality all combined. It’s an intelligent game that does not hold anyone’s hand and comes at the player with utmost confidence in itself. It’s fantastic stuff. The rest of the original 4 are great in their own right and have their own well written stories, but they don’t hold the same emotional weight to them. The soundtracks of SH2 are so Divine and Iconic. 🎶☯️🎶I think SH2’s maturity by comparison is something that a lot of people are drawn to. ☯️
I can’t even describe how much I hate the rise of multiverse theory in media. It’s so damn lazy.
I’ve seen people argue about the loop theory before but in my mind its canonicity is as up to player choice as the endings are. We know nothing about James after 2 other than the fact that his dad Frank never saw him again, so Team Silent intentionally left it to you to decide. I think Bloober Team did the same thing with the loop theory. They added things like the strange photos as possible evidence for it but intended it so you can take it as just referring to the longtime fans and not necessarily to James directly. I personally like the theory and i kind of take it as canon but I’m unsure of some of the specifics of how it works, like for example, are Eddie and Angela in their own loops, meaning they could survive? Or are they stuck in James’ loop? Or are they just long dead by this point and the ones we see are manifestations or something like that? I don’t know but I think that’s what’s nice about loop theory, it creates even more room for discussion, canon or not, so to me it’s disappointing seeing some people get angry about even the possibility of it.
Yes you said it so well! Something I love about Silent Hill is how much it can be theorized on, and there's pretty much always some element of validity, because Silent Hill leaves a lot up to interpretation. And I think that's what Bloober did here as well. 20 years could refer to the playerbase, or it could be loop theory, but personally I think it's a bit of both. Bloober isn't confirming or denying the loop theory, but they're certainly entertaining it. But the "two decades" would be a big coincidence if it wasn't intended toward the playerbase as well. I agree that fans shouldn't be so adamant that a theory isn't or shouldn't be worth considering; that seems a bit inconsistent with the series' MO: we DON'T know everything, and there are definite unexpected twists, but in the end we still are left with questions and a lot of gray area. It's fascinating, there is so much depth.
"The only me is me, are you sure the only you...is you?"
These videos never disappoint
The best thing about SH2 in my opinion has been that you never know for sure. I love that.
Okay, now, what I wonder: What would be - for James - the difference between Multiverse and Time Loop? If he started each loop with his memory wiped clean, there would be no internal difference for him, would there?
It does not matter for a movie if it runs 50 times in parallel, or 50 times in sequence, does it?
(also, love the Evangelion footage for the Primordial Soup)
I think the loop theory is pretty simple. Just like with Elden Ring, you keep resetting the world until you finally get the required outcome, which is confronting and accepting the traumatic event that happened. The main character represents determination, but that also doesn't mean that you are determined to get the right outcome. In Elden Ring, this is shown through the different Tarnished. There are a few that almost made it to Elden Lord, but then got side tracked or gave up, and you have those that simply didn't get very far at all. In Elden Ring, however, the maiden is the willpower, so there it's a combination of willpower and determination, that both need to be on the same page. The only good ending in these games is to confront the traumatic event, accept how things are, and learn to move on. Individuation, wholeness, spiritual enlightenment. If you don't confront your inner demons, they will always haunt you, you can not outrun them. What we're experiencing is these games, is ego-death and adjusting our order, law, approach, ect.
Personal unconscious: it's basically what keeps you busy, personally.
"I'm already 34, and I still don't have kids."
Collective unconscious is what keeps your family, your culture and the rest of the world busy, but still impacts you.
"Women over the age of 40 will find it more difficult to get pregnant."
I remember a line from SH: revelation: “…which one?there are many silent hills…” and thinking why almost every game’s Silent hill looks different it definitely fits especially looking at what PT could’ve been I mean it was called “Silent hillS”
Timeloop and multiverse can't be canon as they're not by Team Silent. That's it.
I always thought about how this ‘place’ was created and what it is about. If you think about it as some sort of limbo, it would make sense everything you see is designed to weigh down on the mind. James is trapped by some dimensional entity that is feeding off misery. Only he can find a way to free himself, but that misery keeps him trapped. A sort of prison if you will. Time and space do not matter! He might be trapped in a loop or one of many attempting the trial. Regardless of why the reason stays the same. James will endlessly repeat this until he frees himself from the misery. No matter how many loops or versions of James go through, the entity wants to see if he even *could* do free himself. Eddie and Angela both seem to be endlessly trapped. Never being able to free from the torment they keep themselves in. Who knows how long they have been there before James arrives
Personally this would be one heck of a purgatory to be trapped in!
I think an elegent solution is that some endings result in James staying in silent hill and looping his experience, and he continues to until he's able to fully live with himself.
Similar to the Buddhist belief of reincarnation. If the soul is unable to pass on from silent hill, they are doomed to relive their personal hell for eternity.
Whether it's a Samsara or Multiverse loop, if it's said that all endings are canon, then it's truly all for naught.
All I can do is smile and quote Owlman's last words:
"It doesn't matter....."
Listen, I love it as complementary canon. Its true if you want it be and its an easter egg with no greater meaning if that works for you