I hate be the first one to be pretty negative about this project, but I do not believe this trail is a good use of DEC's scarce trail construction and maintenance resources. There is still over a mile of challenging terrain yet to be constructed, and that just reaches the col between Cascade and Porter with, as far as I know, no additional work on the steep, eroded (and muddy in the case of Porter) sections between the end of the new trail and those summits. As some of the hikers in the video noted, the current trail was in pretty good shape 20 years ago, but very little maintenance has been done on that trail since then. Consequently, drainages became clogged and muddy areas that could have been fixed with a board of two became wider and longer. Additionally, many of the originally constructed stone staircases ended up with a first step that was dauntingly high - resulting in hikers going around. All of these problems could have been mitigated, but weren't. My idea would have been to put in a major effort to bring this trail up to, as another commenter suggested, a "silver standard" with a commitment for regular annual maintenance. It's true that the new trail will not require as much maintenance. However, the 1.9 mile East Trail to Mt. Van Hoevenberg reportedly cost $1.8 million, and who knows what the four miles of trail unique to Cascade will ultimately cost. I somehow think it would have been a reasonable trade-off to spend much less on rehabbing the current trail, and then spending a few dollars each year to maintain it. It was also noted in the video that, going forward, fewer hikers will climb Cascade. So where will those hikers end up going? Where to park all the cars is a separate issue, but I have made suggestions on that subject as well.
Hey Tony, I'm glad you came to weigh in on this. I always welcome your views. I truly appreciate your in-depth perspective and the concerns you've raised. Your understanding of the trail's history and its potential future is evident and incredibly valuable. I understand where you're coming from regarding the costs and the possible benefits of simply maintaining the current trail. 1.8 million sounds like a lot (which it is), but I think that it is also small compared to what the state COULD be giving us. It's unfortunate that we aren't given more, but the money given to High Peaks trail conservation is pathetic and needs reevaluation. But for what we are being given, maybe how it is used certainly could be re-addressed (So I somewhat agree with you). The idea of elevating the current trail to a "silver standard" and ensuring regular annual maintenance is indeed a compelling alternative. It's important for all of us to weigh the immediate costs against the long-term benefits and sustainability. This idea could potential take hold on other trails, if only after when this trail is completed, we see that as the more viable option. I think this Cascade Project is good in many ways after it is completed, because it will serve as a pilot system to this form of trail conservation. We shall see what effects it has. Of course, the "intention" behind the DEC's new trail project is not just about addressing the wear and tear but also anticipating the future needs of the trail, especially given the rising number of hikers we see each year. The idea is to provide a long-term solution that enhances the environment, hiker safety, and the overall hiking experience (which this is still debatable). Concerning the redistribution of hiker traffic, the hope might be to distribute the increasing number of tourists across various trails, aiming for a balanced and less congested hiking experience and or even less attraction to High Peak trails. This obviously comes with both positives and negatives. -I agree with you on the parking challenges. Engaging in conversations like this is pivotal for our community. It ensures that we consider all angles and make the best decisions for the trail's future. Again, thank you for your invaluable input.
This. This is the kind of content that helps you take the next step. Vlogging is great, but mixing in education and journalism will put you over the top. Keep up the strong work.
It was 1969 (the year we first landed on the moon) when I, as a 14 year-old, first went up Whiteface, Marcy, Cascade, Algonquin, and a few others along with a group of hikers as day trips organized by my summer camp. The trails were all smooth, soft earth, and easy enough for the youngest of us, who were as young as 12. It was a joy to be able to walk and look around at the nature around us. It was truly a magical, wonderful experience. So many dreams were based on my experiences in those hikes! . In 1977, I went back alone to hike Marcy and Algonquin. The trails were now unpleasant as stones four and five inches high littered the trails, forcing one to look down constantly to navigate the trail. It was rather unpleasant, but seemed worth it anyway. . And now, in 2023, retired, I thought it would be fun to try Wright Peak as perhaps a start of a goal to become a 46er. That meant going up the Algonquin trail again before it veered off to the Wright peak. I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE DISASTER OF A TRAIL IT HAD BECOME! Every moment was dedicated to staring down to plan each step carefully onto each massive boulder that now made up the trail. The magic was gone. The soft, flat, trail was completely ruined. I turned back 1,200 ft in elevation from the summit. It just wasn't fun and simply not worth continuing. As a young couple passed by, I mentioned my dismay at the destruction of the trail. The woman mentioned that all the high peak trails were like this now and that they were a "technical challenge." . So that is what hiking the High Peaks had now become: a "technical challenge." I admire all of those young folks happily accepting such a challenge, but sad for them because they will never know the true joy of hiking the Adirondack peaks. Perhaps the new trail at Cascade will restore the magic for that peak. But it needs to be done at all the peaks. I will not be alive to experience that. Sadly, I do not believe that the commitment to make such a thing will ever happen and that the magic will forever be lost. As the joy of the High Peaks are now lost for me, a special part of me is lost as well. . Goodbye, Adirondacks!
Thx Jonathan for showing this side of things! People need to be educated on what their impact will be! I still like your other videos too!! Take care, keep on movin on!!
Just did cascade a couple weekends ago, and it was obvious that people have not been thinking about the well being of the mountain and traversing in whatever way they find easiest. Erosion and the widening of comes down to what the people who hike these trails do in order to preserve these trails and mountains. I can’t wait to check out this new trail when it opens!
Nice information Jonathan. I haven't hiked Cascade in a few years. Boy... even in that time it looks like the erosion has gotten worse. I'm looking forward to hiking the new trail when complete... what a ton of work.
Great content. I climbed Vanhoevenburg this year, 20ish years after I first did it and it was fantastic. With more and more people visiting, the DEC is forward thinking. Highlighting more of the other peaks and trails could help alleviate some traffic. Just saying...
I just did Cascade and Porter for the first time yesterday, and it certainly is a remarkable difference compared to the ones ive climbed already. The erosion and widening of trail is really bad. Its great to see they are creating a new trail, i hadn't heard of this project until this video. Great content as always man! Your care and passion for the Adirondacks certainly speaks volumes through your videos!
Great video! This is quite comparable to what has been done downstate in the Hudson Valley, where highly trafficked iconic trails like Bear Mtn and Breakneck Ridge have had similar trail reconstruction. I do sometimes wonder why switchbacks are not used in the Northeast like they are in the rest of the country.
Good report! I do like the new VanH trail, but I think the new Cascade trail needs to be wider than that because of the large number of hikers. One problem the ADKs have that the Western National Parks do not is the prohibition of power equipment in Wilderness areas, so all this work must be done by hand. Not even chainsaws are allowed. Are battery-powered drills allowed?
We are presently in a Perfect Storm. Historic High Usage Rates with years of low manpower, poor funding… and the trails are in sad shape. God, I hope something changes. This is a lot of work (already 5 years and only 80% complete) for ~ 10 miles of trail, with 1,990 miles remaining throughout the Adirondacks. God, please help this community.
I can make a video entirely on this subject alone. I think there's a lot to be said about how things are being dealt with both inside and outside of New York State DEC. As many praise worthy and awesome things that they do, there's also a dark side to it that I think a lot of people are afraid to talk about. I need to get more educated first before being open about that
I don’t like the new trail. It makes it seem less like you’re out in the wilderness. That being said I understand why it is being designed like that and the importance of it to be able to sustain the number of people so I think it is great that they are building it.
A definite trade-off, but reasonable given the amount of traffic this summit sees. Much healthier for the mountains in the long run. Maybe this will help people hate Blake and Couch a little less? :D
@@subkulture420I totally agree with you, and it makes me worry a little that are other trails going to see an over abundance that normally wouldn’t have been felt. Cascade seemed to be the one that has taken the blunt load of all the people that were doing their first high peak or were tourist in the area but since it’s going to be an 11 mile round trip which other mountains will see in increase. I did Cascade as my first high peak in 2019 and had to go back this year to do Porter and I was shocked at how bad the trail has gotten even since then, so I understand something has to be done, but I worry about the other mountain trails.
I think I saw that the cost of this grade of construction was $30/foot. Well at $1.8 million for 1.9 miles (10,032 ft) of trail, the math comes out to about $180/foot.
Will there be a fee to park at the Rec center? Like the Loj. I see suggestions that activity on Cascade will drop 50%. I bet it's WAY more. Like 90% easy. Pretty sad I think.
good video, looking forward to checking the new trail out. At the end you indicate there is a need for more volunteers to do this kind of work. While you're right, morer volunteers would expedite the process, I think its important to understand that this shouldnt be 100% on volunteer labor; an equal or larger proportion of work funded by the state should be injected to jump start this kind of work in other areas.
I 100% agree with your statements. I think volunteer labor is certainly welcomed, but projects like this deserve to have people being paid for their family efforts. Unfortunately right now the state isn't willing to pay or hire on more people, so that's why I expressed demand in expanding volunteer efforts because the state isn't going to do anything else about it right now unfortunately
Hey Jonathan! I just got around to watching this video and thank you for the info! Question? What about sunrise and sunset hikes to Cascade & Mt. Van Hovenberg? Do you know if they plan on the parking lot being open at the Mt. Van Hovenberg complex for those? Thanks!
As DEC describes it, this is the gold standard. It probably averages out to about $30 per foot. I would like to see what the tax payers have spent on it so far. They didn’t show how the trail workers are breaking rocks into small pieces with hand tools as a base. Forget having steps for every foot of vertical. If it was my decision, I would spread the money on more trails, to more of a silver standard. Most of the trails in the high peaks go straight up the fall line. Spend the time and money making new trails with switchbacks and erosion control.
I hate be the first one to be pretty negative about this project, but I do not believe this trail is a good use of DEC's scarce trail construction and maintenance resources. There is still over a mile of challenging terrain yet to be constructed, and that just reaches the col between Cascade and Porter with, as far as I know, no additional work on the steep, eroded (and muddy in the case of Porter) sections between the end of the new trail and those summits. As some of the hikers in the video noted, the current trail was in pretty good shape 20 years ago, but very little maintenance has been done on that trail since then. Consequently, drainages became clogged and muddy areas that could have been fixed with a board of two became wider and longer. Additionally, many of the originally constructed stone staircases ended up with a first step that was dauntingly high - resulting in hikers going around. All of these problems could have been mitigated, but weren't. My idea would have been to put in a major effort to bring this trail up to, as another commenter suggested, a "silver standard" with a commitment for regular annual maintenance. It's true that the new trail will not require as much maintenance. However, the 1.9 mile East Trail to Mt. Van Hoevenberg reportedly cost $1.8 million, and who knows what the four miles of trail unique to Cascade will ultimately cost. I somehow think it would have been a reasonable trade-off to spend much less on rehabbing the current trail, and then spending a few dollars each year to maintain it. It was also noted in the video that, going forward, fewer hikers will climb Cascade. So where will those hikers end up going? Where to park all the cars is a separate issue, but I have made suggestions on that subject as well.
Hey Tony, I'm glad you came to weigh in on this. I always welcome your views.
I truly appreciate your in-depth perspective and the concerns you've raised. Your understanding of the trail's history and its potential future is evident and incredibly valuable.
I understand where you're coming from regarding the costs and the possible benefits of simply maintaining the current trail. 1.8 million sounds like a lot (which it is), but I think that it is also small compared to what the state COULD be giving us. It's unfortunate that we aren't given more, but the money given to High Peaks trail conservation is pathetic and needs reevaluation. But for what we are being given, maybe how it is used certainly could be re-addressed (So I somewhat agree with you).
The idea of elevating the current trail to a "silver standard" and ensuring regular annual maintenance is indeed a compelling alternative. It's important for all of us to weigh the immediate costs against the long-term benefits and sustainability. This idea could potential take hold on other trails, if only after when this trail is completed, we see that as the more viable option. I think this Cascade Project is good in many ways after it is completed, because it will serve as a pilot system to this form of trail conservation. We shall see what effects it has.
Of course, the "intention" behind the DEC's new trail project is not just about addressing the wear and tear but also anticipating the future needs of the trail, especially given the rising number of hikers we see each year. The idea is to provide a long-term solution that enhances the environment, hiker safety, and the overall hiking experience (which this is still debatable).
Concerning the redistribution of hiker traffic, the hope might be to distribute the increasing number of tourists across various trails, aiming for a balanced and less congested hiking experience and or even less attraction to High Peak trails. This obviously comes with both positives and negatives.
-I agree with you on the parking challenges.
Engaging in conversations like this is pivotal for our community. It ensures that we consider all angles and make the best decisions for the trail's future. Again, thank you for your invaluable input.
This. This is the kind of content that helps you take the next step. Vlogging is great, but mixing in education and journalism will put you over the top.
Keep up the strong work.
It was 1969 (the year we first landed on the moon) when I, as a 14 year-old, first went up Whiteface, Marcy, Cascade, Algonquin, and a few others along with a group of hikers as day trips organized by my summer camp. The trails were all smooth, soft earth, and easy enough for the youngest of us, who were as young as 12. It was a joy to be able to walk and look around at the nature around us. It was truly a magical, wonderful experience. So many dreams were based on my experiences in those hikes!
.
In 1977, I went back alone to hike Marcy and Algonquin. The trails were now unpleasant as stones four and five inches high littered the trails, forcing one to look down constantly to navigate the trail. It was rather unpleasant, but seemed worth it anyway.
.
And now, in 2023, retired, I thought it would be fun to try Wright Peak as perhaps a start of a goal to become a 46er. That meant going up the Algonquin trail again before it veered off to the Wright peak. I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE DISASTER OF A TRAIL IT HAD BECOME! Every moment was dedicated to staring down to plan each step carefully onto each massive boulder that now made up the trail. The magic was gone. The soft, flat, trail was completely ruined. I turned back 1,200 ft in elevation from the summit. It just wasn't fun and simply not worth continuing. As a young couple passed by, I mentioned my dismay at the destruction of the trail. The woman mentioned that all the high peak trails were like this now and that they were a "technical challenge."
.
So that is what hiking the High Peaks had now become: a "technical challenge." I admire all of those young folks happily accepting such a challenge, but sad for them because they will never know the true joy of hiking the Adirondack peaks. Perhaps the new trail at Cascade will restore the magic for that peak. But it needs to be done at all the peaks. I will not be alive to experience that. Sadly, I do not believe that the commitment to make such a thing will ever happen and that the magic will forever be lost. As the joy of the High Peaks are now lost for me, a special part of me is lost as well.
.
Goodbye, Adirondacks!
This is a welcome change in your normal video format. Real insights into what's happening now. Well done.
With so many people out there to enjoy the hikes, I love the idea of making the high-traffic trails more durable!
Thx Jonathan for showing this side of things! People need to be educated on what their impact will be! I still like your other videos too!! Take care, keep on movin on!!
I can say from experience, Cascade and Porter are great hikes!
Nice update. I am very interested in trail infrastructure, so I was glad to see this video.
I also wonder how the milage is 11 miles if that will deter some of the more casual hikers. The new Vanhoevenburg trail was amazing.
Another great video Johnathan!!!
Just did cascade a couple weekends ago, and it was obvious that people have not been thinking about the well being of the mountain and traversing in whatever way they find easiest. Erosion and the widening of comes down to what the people who hike these trails do in order to preserve these trails and mountains. I can’t wait to check out this new trail when it opens!
Nice information Jonathan. I haven't hiked Cascade in a few years. Boy... even in that time it looks like the erosion has gotten worse. I'm looking forward to hiking the new trail when complete... what a ton of work.
Great content. I climbed Vanhoevenburg this year, 20ish years after I first did it and it was fantastic. With more and more people visiting, the DEC is forward thinking. Highlighting more of the other peaks and trails could help alleviate some traffic. Just saying...
Ilove cascade..I find it moderate and the summit is wowwww…
Thank you Jonathan 😘😘
Such a good and educational vid my guy
Looks amazing. I've been putting off the existing trail. Sounds like I need to plan a trip sooner than later!
It's nice to get an inside view, and see that the d.e.c. is taking a pro-active approach to keeping the adirondacks user friendly for all of us.
Thank you for sharing this content, when I did Cascade and Porter, the trail was super wide and eroded. I will post this on my page.
I just did Cascade and Porter for the first time yesterday, and it certainly is a remarkable difference compared to the ones ive climbed already. The erosion and widening of trail is really bad. Its great to see they are creating a new trail, i hadn't heard of this project until this video. Great content as always man! Your care and passion for the Adirondacks certainly speaks volumes through your videos!
Well done!
Great video! This is quite comparable to what has been done downstate in the Hudson Valley, where highly trafficked iconic trails like Bear Mtn and Breakneck Ridge have had similar trail reconstruction. I do sometimes wonder why switchbacks are not used in the Northeast like they are in the rest of the country.
In 1995 when I first hiked Cascade there was no rock hoping.
Great video. Okay to embed on my blog?
Yes
Good report! I do like the new VanH trail, but I think the new Cascade trail needs to be wider than that because of the large number of hikers. One problem the ADKs have that the Western National Parks do not is the prohibition of power equipment in Wilderness areas, so all this work must be done by hand. Not even chainsaws are allowed. Are battery-powered drills allowed?
We are presently in a Perfect Storm. Historic High Usage Rates with years of low manpower, poor funding… and the trails are in sad shape.
God, I hope something changes.
This is a lot of work (already 5 years and only 80% complete) for ~ 10 miles of trail, with 1,990 miles remaining throughout the Adirondacks.
God, please help this community.
I can make a video entirely on this subject alone. I think there's a lot to be said about how things are being dealt with both inside and outside of New York State DEC. As many praise worthy and awesome things that they do, there's also a dark side to it that I think a lot of people are afraid to talk about. I need to get more educated first before being open about that
I grew up in the area. The Adirondacks have a deep history of corruption and nepotism and yes people are afraid to speak up.
I don’t like the new trail. It makes it seem less like you’re out in the wilderness. That being said I understand why it is being designed like that and the importance of it to be able to sustain the number of people so I think it is great that they are building it.
A definite trade-off, but reasonable given the amount of traffic this summit sees. Much healthier for the mountains in the long run. Maybe this will help people hate Blake and Couch a little less? :D
I doubt the cascade summit will see half the hikers it usually does from the new trail, considering it’s more than twice as long
@@subkulture420I totally agree with you, and it makes me worry a little that are other trails going to see an over abundance that normally wouldn’t have been felt. Cascade seemed to be the one that has taken the blunt load of all the people that were doing their first high peak or were tourist in the area but since it’s going to be an 11 mile round trip which other mountains will see in increase. I did Cascade as my first high peak in 2019 and had to go back this year to do Porter and I was shocked at how bad the trail has gotten even since then, so I understand something has to be done, but I worry about the other mountain trails.
I think I saw that the cost of this grade of construction was $30/foot. Well at $1.8 million for 1.9 miles (10,032 ft) of trail, the math comes out to about $180/foot.
👊👍
Will there be a fee to park at the Rec center? Like the Loj.
I see suggestions that activity on Cascade will drop 50%. I bet it's WAY more. Like 90% easy. Pretty sad I think.
👌👍
good video, looking forward to checking the new trail out. At the end you indicate there is a need for more volunteers to do this kind of work. While you're right, morer volunteers would expedite the process, I think its important to understand that this shouldnt be 100% on volunteer labor; an equal or larger proportion of work funded by the state should be injected to jump start this kind of work in other areas.
I 100% agree with your statements. I think volunteer labor is certainly welcomed, but projects like this deserve to have people being paid for their family efforts. Unfortunately right now the state isn't willing to pay or hire on more people, so that's why I expressed demand in expanding volunteer efforts because the state isn't going to do anything else about it right now unfortunately
Hey Jonathan! I just got around to watching this video and thank you for the info! Question? What about sunrise and sunset hikes to Cascade & Mt. Van Hovenberg? Do you know if they plan on the parking lot being open at the Mt. Van Hovenberg complex for those? Thanks!
Yes, that’s what they will be doing. They should have it open for 24 hour access
Excellent! Thanks again! ☦️
As DEC describes it, this is the gold standard. It probably averages out to about $30 per foot. I would like to see what the tax payers have spent on it so far. They didn’t show how the trail workers are breaking rocks into small pieces with hand tools as a base. Forget having steps for every foot of vertical. If it was my decision, I would spread the money on more trails, to more of a silver standard. Most of the trails in the high peaks go straight up the fall line. Spend the time and money making new trails with switchbacks and erosion control.