So I delayed this upload a bit to talk to Immortal and Radiants. They agreed with my takes here and added that Vyse's thorns should be more punishing to people who move within it. They also agreed that she shouldn't be picked alone. Meaning her + Cypher, etc. Putting her in a weird spot as a Sentinel. They all think some buffs are warranted but I am not sure yet. What do you guys think?
Tbh her flash is trash, her molli is a worse version of killjoys, her wall is not that useful. Granted, it can stop pushes, but a well timed flash renders it useless anyway. And her ultimate is actual trash. You either wait it out or whip out your sheriff. Obviously, it can still covert a fair fight into an unfair one, but some ultimates just straight up kills you, and compared to a deadlock ultimate (free kill essentially) or a viper ultimate, it’s just not up there. Overall, she is just a boring and monotone agent to play. As a deadlock main, this is amplified even further as her wall isn’t situational like deadlocks or sages. You drop it at a site and hope they come in. I guess she could be useful occasionally? But it just feels like all her utility is a cheap, worse version if another sentinel’s utility.
Vyse is basically a worse version and a mix of other agents except her ult and her wall, people can just jiggle the wall for it to activate and her ult is just kinda bad cuz the enemies can just wait it out
I believe people miss the point sometimes. The point is that it is useful, and from the looks of it, Riot doesn't want just a single agent to change the META or make other agents unviable by simply making them disappear from the map, but to open up new options based on how the agents work together and not individually. KJ or Cypher don't necessarily need to disappear from the META now, just compete more in terms of pickrate, as the existence of Vyse in itself benefits those who play Deadlock or Yoru, and that's a good thing. Creating a super broken agent, or not, that changes the META in a very extreme way doesn't seem like a good idea, as it practically puts the usability of other agents into question. Everyone would abuse this agent in any situation, as was the case with Chamber for a while. For me, it wins in versatility and is good for punishing entry duelists like Jett, weakening them more in the META. This all seems like gradual work. Cool video!
This is well said. It's basically like when Fade came out aka Vyse is pretty well released because she isn't broken. Balance wise its far better to release an agent underpowered than broken (like Chamber for example and Clove to a degree). However, compared to Deadlock/Iso, Vyse released perfectly fine for seeing her niche and has ways to improve.
I've been almost exclusively playing vyse since her release, and although don't disagree that other sentinels might be more fun for other people, I personally really enjoyed playing her. I think a big factor in her being seen as boring is like someone else mentioned, how slow her utility and playstyle is. All of her util is on slow activation, her wall requires a lot of patience. However, I don't think her wall is good and people are severely underestimated how much impact the wall gets even when people jump peak it. That's 7 seconds of stall time were your team can rotate, reposition, and on top of that if you time it right you're free to throw another razorvine after it goes down adding more stall. But yes, that does result in even more waiting, which people probably don't want to do. I however don't see much of a difference between the "fun" of playing vyse vs playing kj. Yes kj turret shoots the enemies dealing damage, but that's not you engaging with the enemies, just your utility. As for her alarmbot, in a sense it's just the same as vyse wall, you wait for it to pop and capitalize off it. There's also an equal amount, if not more counter play for kj alarmbot like simply being broken by guns or utility. Kj mollies and vyse razorvines are practically played the same way too, albeit vyse is a little slower on that. But overall me personally I don't find kj all that more fun to play than vyse, both can be kinda slow or fun at times, but even when their utility feels slow that doesn't take away from the overall fun of the kit. Also, if you get creative with vyse wall you'll get so much more fun out of it. Placing it predictably at the entrance of site is obviously going to be jump peaked and will result in boring gameplay. Change it up, place the wall on site somewhere, or lane on ascent, or on the spike.
Yeah I think people really forget that the wall is primarily useful because it's 100% unavoidable if enemies want to move through that area. They can bait it, but then they're stuck behind it, and regardless you're notified that someone is there. It's good for isolating people and getting a kill, but it's also just really solid as a tripwire because there's no way around it aside from taking a different path.
I honestly really enjoy Vyse as a dedicated KJ/Cypher main, and am definitely gonna add her to my agent rotation. She has a super unique playstyle that really emphasises actively making solo trap plays on attack and baiting enemies into them in areas you want to control, and on defence she's so good at either stalling a push or isolating single picks, and the fact that the flash can be used aggressively really helps in those scenarios where you need active util to break a sightline but your initiator can't for whatever reason. Honestly she's my favourite agent they've released since probably Chamber
ive said this multiple times and ill say it again. agents. who require brain. arent good agents because most of valorants playerbase doesnt THINK STRATEGICALLY. vyse isnt a character you can just play like killjoy. vyse isnt a hold back enemies sentinel. shes a seperate and kill sentinel. she kills by making the enemy move however she wants them to move
Most of the agents I play that I enjoy allow for very tricky plays or elaborate setups that make you feel really good when they work. Vyse is one of those agents and I've been enjoying my time with her.
Cypher nerf should hopefully make her somewhat more valuable. Vyse flash is genuinely one of the most bugged abilities I have ever used and needs some sort of fix. You’ll get sound queues like “good hit” when it does not blind the enemy whatsoever. It also just gets stuck in walls in certain spots. The wall is okay, but that’s about it.
I kinda agree, I was in my Sage phase before Vyse came out and I swore she was the perfect agent for me, then I got my hands on her and her kit is just so clunky, slow and lacks playmaking potential, I just ended up going back to playing Omen instead.
Maybe i am wrong but, it seems like Vyse is very good if used right, even a low rank player can understand the drill : Isolate one figt win it with flash, delay the enemy team with mollies. Is very good in what she does, but if u like to lock down a site and punishing rushers obviously you are gonna play Cypher or Killjoy. It's fun if for someone who's like the strategic part of the game, if they just like shoting and making damage probably not for them (maybe Valorant is not for them). Yes i'm talking just aboutthe base stuff, i enjoy this agent very much
You made a good point that she isn’t in that flex sentinel role like deadlock, sage, or chamber. But she isn’t as reliable or strong as cypher or killjoy to lockdown being that primary sentinel. I think you could give a range of buffs to vyse that wouldn’t make her take over the meta, but maybe be on par as an alternate option. Maybe the thorn trap automatically triggers when enemies walk through it, and maybe it does a bit more damage or slow. Maybe she gets 2 walls. Or maybe her ult is similar to kayo knife where it tells you how many got hit with it. Any one of these changes could be big enough to put her in contention with cypher and kj.
As someone said already, all she needs is an alt fire to automatically trigger her thorn molleys when they land on the ground, without having to activate them
from time to time I use swiftplay to play the agents I don't normally for fun and to see what they can do. After like 1-2 weeks I stopped even noticing or acknowledging Vyse in the agent select menu even when trying different agents than I normally do.
As a vyse main I’m more than compliant on locking down one area if it helps out my team. If anything, offense/retaking could use some more help, especially if they could rework thorns
if you pair her wall with something like killjoys nanoswarms on icebox in the gap behind the zippline on B sight in a post plant situation it can be good
I agree and a common issue riot does with their sentinels is giving them a mediocre molly ability. Killjoy is the only sentinel with a good molly. Deadlock, Vyse, Sage, have mollies that underperform and it just makes me think of other abilities the agent could have. I think Riot should realize this common trend and either buff each agent's mollies or just give them rework and a new ability.
I really want her thorns to have an alt fire that activates upon landing. Does Killjoy need to get this feature too? No, Killjoy plays more passively and has no other entry kit while Vyse feels like a pseudo-initiator with her flash
I mean you could do that with her molly but it operates the same as a KJ molly so I don't see what your comparison is? The only difference is her molly has the hitbox of a continent so its easier to destroy.
I really enjoy playing Vyse, but i enjoy playing Vyse for the reasons you mentioned. I usually play with my friend, and i am really good at getting selfish, and dying from stupidity. When i play Vyse it kind of forces me to take a step back, and wait, and play with my duo. The way she plays is a way for me to learn how to play slower
The only thing I'd fully wish to change with her right now, is make her molly do the same small damage if their in it (logically, I still dont how standing in thorns doesn't do damage). It doesn't need to increase damage like a KJ molly, but it does need to be a bit stronger given how much easier it is to destroy. She isn't boring at all and can def use some buffs, but its better to not released her completely broken (also fun is so subjective here). Also, it also comes to a point where it is less about her and more about nerfing competitors if need be (and I personally think Cypher could use nerfs and just redistributing power in the Sentinel role is a whole other thing).
I actually think vyse has been very fun, ive been instalocking her pretty much every game and winning most of them. I enjoy that i can do a little bit of everything, from info gathering with her flash, to flank watch, to controlling space with her thornes. Or i can just hold down the site with all her utility. And then i can just rip the ult out and w key people down with the team. Its fun, i can play however i want to play from round to round whether it be agressive info gather or passive lurker or just a sentinel
vyse is just not that fun for the average player to play, sure some people like vyse but riot needs to start thinking "is this fun for the majority of the playerbase?" rather than some specific person's play style a good example of a fun sentinel is sage, sage's playstyle can be both aggressive or passive depending of what type of player you are, you can use your walls as an advantage for off-angles or if youre a passibe player, slow down the enemy team so your team can rotate vyse on the other hand doesn't have that fun factor, sure she has flash and slows enemies, but you could pick better agents that has a flash and slow, breach and gekko are a good example
I disagree complete to the part you said where Riot should design characters to be fun for everyone instead of specific people. I honestly don't think there exist anything in this world that is "universally good" people gonna have the specific niche they enjoy and you really couldn't do anything about it. If I enjoy playing aggressively so much then why would I be playing Sentinel instead of duelist in the first place? And crazy as it sound, there are people out there who prefer to play it safe and passive, otherwise why would KJ be so popular deaspite(imo) being the leagues more boring then Vyse Not to mention that designing characters aiming with the majority in mind, overtime can make characters feel more stale and boring because everybody is the same now Not everyone can enjoy playing Vyse and it's OK, there are other characters you can play, beside Vyse is obviously strong and viable enough that it would hurt if you wanna try something new
Also yes, I do agree, after like 40 games or so after her release that Vyse is very much boring but I disagree completely on it has anything to do with "being aggressive" as Dittokulz has stated, in my opinion it should be more so how void of creativity her kit are designed. Cypher for example, whether you want to play passive or aggressive, you have multiple options to approach it that can drastically affect how you play, same applies to Sage wall or Chamber tp. Where as Vyse most of times I feel like I'm just doing the same thing all over but slightly different
@@scoot5642 like I said, you can get creative with her. Otherwise, yeah agree. Playing Sage honestly feel like coping if you're only doing basic shit all over
all the sentinel role is defined by is their ability to place util that can be destroyed. That is the only thing they all share. Thats prolly the only reason Viper isn't a sentinel, not just because of her smoke based kit, but because none of her util can be destroyed.
she’s my main this season avg 70% win rate. while yes i do think her ult is heavily lacking, Yall just ain’t creative enough to put her utility in crushing positions. She’s best played like a mini initiator and her kit is very versatile. Definitely not meant to be the only sentinel though
Low elo sentinel main here: imo she is just hard to use without much coordination which is hard in low elo, flashes in itself are hard to play off, but the wall and molly also dont give any duel advantge (comparing to others like cypher (trip stun and cage) or deadlock (concussion) also the ultimate is the same, knowing enemy position or killing is always valuable, but if you arent coordianted vyse ult is just weak, you are either too late on site or have to go solo where the gun advantge matters less. So all in all people like agents that are self sufficient. Astra was the same, never played in normal games but everyone played her in esport.
I personally enjoy playing vyse and on defensive rounds she feels great when her kit is allowed to shine; but if u have to swing to another plant sight there's no abilities left to help retake position. Which leads to the fact that she is terrible on attack and only useful on protecting the back end and if ur playing with randos who r unable to take space for u leaves the team dead in the water.
I think Vyse is cool, but I think a lot of players struggle to play her in attack. Because the point is that her wall is not so strong in attack like in defense. i think the mechanic of the wall is great but also not. Sure we can split player off their team and can get info or an frag with it, but in a afterplant situation you dont want the enemy locked in with you rather locked out. I would like it that riot add the option to pull up the wall without enemy must walk through.
I just came back to the game and Im definitely not anyone insane at this game but I am really enjoying playing vyse. I started playing sentinels instead of duelists and she is a good middle ground between complex and simple execution for me.
No one dared to say that loud and clear, first, a multiplayer shooter game is meant firstly for the average casual player and not for the can play a whole day one can have plenty of time to analyze and dissect it. For that reason, it has to be fun to play right from the start, not by many experiments and watching tutorials. That's why agents like Reyna, Raze, Jett, Sage, and, even Viper are so popular, while Deadlock and, Astra are just niche.
iron sentinel main so take my words with a grain of salt: I find her less intuitive and enjoyable than both deadlock and killjoy (my main). as you said, it's hard to play off of her abilities, compared to a turret shooting or a deadlock trip (which needs to be buffed). idk, I'm not sure how I feel about her yet.
i mained vyse for a bit cuz i always try to use new agents. but atp, just lock in sage, their kit is really similqr except for the blind and that the razorvine can deal permanent damage
i tried to really learn vyse kit to the point where im really used to her kit. but if someone else in your solo queue locked in skye or breach, or even both, there’s no benefit for you to lock her in
I like the bush thing, but the wall is useless and her flash is not great but amazing ult. I ll rather pick a Kj or cypher still and even a sage on icebox than vyse
As a flash initiator player myself she seems workable in ranked, but I just haven't shown a single interest in playing the character. It feels like an updated Sage with Sage feeling outdated and her being the new wall agent, or maybe Deadlock took that spot earlier... The flashes are in her kit, but like I dunno, the wall, thorns, and ult, doesn't have that push nature I want. I find more interest in Chamber if I wanted to play Sentinel but its probably just not my role
I like the flexibility of Vyse, and honestly I don't understand people that miss broken characters on their release. I didn't witness Chamber on Astra release, but I was there on Iso and that was HELL. Especially on low elo lobbies, that was not enjoyable. But what IS enjoyable, is cracking enemies' strong comp and abusing their weaknesses. That is fun for me. I think that Vyse lacks utility combinations, her flash and wall can be used in a lot of scenarios, but her trap is mediocre.
At first I was super hyped. But after playing her for the first time yesterday. And a few more times. I think she can be fun. And there are some plays. But as someone who has the plastic aim. I feel liek you need to be good to use her. Like for example cypher u can shoot through walls. Deadlock you stun. Sage you can get over the wall. so on so on.
One of the thing I hate about Vyse is that she's okayish at defending only 1 site. Her nade are virtually useless so if the enemy is decent enough to use their utils alongside the duelist entry and the duelist can dodge the flash you are entirely relying on your aim, which is dumb. Any attempts at remotely rotating or attacking is useless. Not a single thing can be used when attacking. You cannot lurk you cannot push you can't even help the push. Teams with a decent brain can easily out maneuvered her
As a sentinel main I very like Vyse. She feet good to my playstyle. Personnaly i thnik Cypher and Kj are better to "win the game", but Vyse kit help more abuse how ranked system work. I feel people scar less to go on Vyse site than Cypher or Kj. Thanks to that i have more kills on defence. Flashing for myself is also really nice. Overall i got more RR playing Vyse cuz have more kills.
I perform great whenever I use Vyse, so I guess it's a player preference thing. People keep doing this tbh, mega hype for a new character and content then back to "boring/mid" 😅
I am for a casual so I understand this could very much just be a me issue. But I will pretty much never play her as I dislike highly everything she does needs to be self triggered besides the wall that I don't see that helpful compared to sage's. Sage wall seems much better as it comes out already providing cover, and if someone wants try break through it you'll be aware. So I ain't playing her for the wall, and I ain't playing her due to the rest all requires me to trigger it after the fact. You compare that to KJ I can just place a turret that auto-fires for me, alarm Bot that again auto-triggers. The Nanoswarms are the only thing I have to think about. While Vyse I have to worry about the thorns and her flash and her wall. Of course if I was a high rank player I would be able to keep track and use everything no problem but I ain't so that's a lot for me to handle.
I don't know if I'm misinterpreted this video but the point I'm getting out of this video is "Vyse is boring because she's not aggressive" which I'm very much don't agree. Obviously as Sentinels you could only be so aggressive, why else would you be playing Sentinel instead of duelist anyway? There obviously are people who just wanna chill out and play very safe and passively, why else would KJ be so popular if it isn't the case? And honestly in my opinion Vyse could might as well be the most aggressive sentinel we have right now single-handedly because she's the only one we had currently the has a flash. And yet I still very much agree she's hella boring. Why? Because she desperately lack creativity. Sage obviously has her infamous grim walls and Cypher I bet have more setup for a single site then Vyse on a whole map, in which some of each setup can much drastically affect how you play the round. Vyse on the otherhand have like, a few setup you can do per site and mostly every single one of which basically do the same thing but slightly different(which exceptions ofc)
She's literally my favourite agent. My peak was diamond and I usually play between gold and plat. I think she's a really good noob stomping support agent. Ppl at this rank usually flood in without much thought. Her wall really punishes the confident solo dash-in duelists. Imagine jett dash in early and everyone else gets stuck in main, doesnt matter how good ur aim when u all alone and i got teammates and flash and more. On attack use the wall like chamber trip😂 Tripping flank is wayyyy btr than saving util for retake, especially in rank when u nt sure abt ur teammates. U can combo ur flash with other agents to do iniator plays and help the team overall. That's just how I play her and how I have fun with her, she's such an active sentinel imo. I completely disagree with the community that dont pick her😅
vyse just fells heavily map dependent and more of a chamber style sentinel of hold aggressive map space unlike cypher or kj who can just lock it all down and have more engaging kits
personally, i think vyse is the best agent for me I feel most comfortable in sentinel, but since my friends play senti i am forced to play a lot of initiators vyse plays similarly to both senti and initiator so now i one trick her
I dont agree that shes not unique. I think people dont pick her cuz shes too unique. Imo, her wall and thorns are weird to use, like why cant it be the opposite, the wall should be manually activated while her thorns are automatically triggered.
Vyse is good if the team listens to your util, but nobody does that. Maybe its just cause im in low elo but even in high elo sentinels struggle with this
People say the same shit about viper and she is one of the best agents in the game. It’s a huge reason why agents that require team play do the worst in this game at a ranked level
You do admit that the reason she isn't picked that much is because most people didn't obtain her yet. You could have made a better case if you compared her stats to previous new agents right after release. As for not a fun agent, naturally those who do own vyse probably are less comfortable with her rather than the good old kj or cipher. This whole video lacks base my guy...
Besides the fact that Vyse is pretty boring, I think the 200k xp can be extremely unmotivating. That stuff sucks the hype out of a character cause you have to grind before you can even play her and by the time you are done the hype has already dropped down
Tho I don't play Val for over a year now, every now and then I check to see if there is an interesting new agent. So far, with the cinematic video this agent is by far the most boring. Like atleast I can always say the cinematic trailers are enjoyable but even that was boring for this agent
I main sova or vyse, you must I must drop 1 wire to stop push on site and save 1 to rotate if original site was not pushed. For the blind, it’s all about listening for those footsteps to drop it peek and push back.
I honestly disagree and think she's fun. The flash, in particular, is a lot of fun, but that's preference. I think this video is a lot of grasping at straws for the most part, like talking about how active the utility is and the fact that kj Molly's do consistent damage vs. vyse only doing damage when moving. I don't think anyone cares about that stuff to be frank, but that's based on my group of people I know so maybe it's different for others.
She is wayyy harder to get value out of in a ranked setting as compared to Cypher and Killjoy and isnt as fun if you cant get value out of her wall or razorvine if you even just started rotating... This is why no one wants to play her
I don't like Vyse because she literally has no engaging ability. In the end, she's marked as an initiator, but honestly, every time I play against a Vyse, I just shoot the flash before the enemy can even push, so it's not effective. Once that's destroyed, there aren’t any other initiation possibilities. For example: Sova has his dart and drone Skye has her dog and flash Gekko has Dizzy and Wingman Fade has her eye and Ghost Even Breach, who only has flashes, is still very offensive overall. If you have a very aggressive team, she can be useful, but it's really a niche situation. I think her ult should show how many people are marked, like Killjoy's or Fade's ult.
@@Wiesodas No she is just a Sentinel. She has one ability that you can argue can be used to initiate a push and even then it's primarily for site holding anyway
As for me, I stopped play Vyse coz she kinda weaker then rest of the sentinels, her wall is to easy to play around same as her ult, which has really bad radius and to easy to avoid, her flash is almost impossible to use aggressively. In most situations she almost as weak as Deadlock (yes her flash is much more valuable then Deadlock net, but her wall cant really stop the hard push and give enough time for your teammates to rotate or reposition). While attacking she has almost same weak spots as Deadlock (she can't secure flanks like Sifer or Killjoy) so in total for me she more look like Deadlock 2.0 that's why i'm stopped playing her.
play for fun in a competitive game? If i want to enjoy or play for fun it would rather be in single player games or RPGs or Palworld like game. Who and How tf you play for fun in competitive game
Lol told you so! Weakest agent to date. She should as I said been made a healer instead. Everything you said wasn't true either. Why the toxic positivity bro? She's actually bad, useless and weak. She's just a very poorly thought out agent and her looks make her look good instead. Worst agent yet period!
it's simple she's a bad sentinel. a huge role of sentinel is holding flank which deadlock and vyse are horrible at. people in ranked aren't playing like pro 5 man stack. they don't wanna be always pro-active about if someone has already entered a site or flanked them, especially in low to mid elos. people want something that will take away the headache of getting flanked or having the security that u will know one site not compromised just cause you went to another site to help your team and at least give you the info if the site is compromised. so yeah it's a sentinels issue. even chamber can hold flank. though he's more of a duelist
So I delayed this upload a bit to talk to Immortal and Radiants. They agreed with my takes here and added that Vyse's thorns should be more punishing to people who move within it. They also agreed that she shouldn't be picked alone. Meaning her + Cypher, etc. Putting her in a weird spot as a Sentinel. They all think some buffs are warranted but I am not sure yet. What do you guys think?
Tbh her flash is trash, her molli is a worse version of killjoys, her wall is not that useful. Granted, it can stop pushes, but a well timed flash renders it useless anyway.
And her ultimate is actual trash. You either wait it out or whip out your sheriff. Obviously, it can still covert a fair fight into an unfair one, but some ultimates just straight up kills you, and compared to a deadlock ultimate (free kill essentially) or a viper ultimate, it’s just not up there. Overall, she is just a boring and monotone agent to play. As a deadlock main, this is amplified even further as her wall isn’t situational like deadlocks or sages. You drop it at a site and hope they come in.
I guess she could be useful occasionally? But it just feels like all her utility is a cheap, worse version if another sentinel’s utility.
Vyse is basically a worse version and a mix of other agents except her ult and her wall, people can just jiggle the wall for it to activate and her ult is just kinda bad cuz the enemies can just wait it out
@@Samlikesanime thats what im saying
If they add where u can shoot her flash mid animation I’d love that
@@thedomainofsealteamaqua vyse's flash is not bad, it does what it needs to do
I believe people miss the point sometimes. The point is that it is useful, and from the looks of it, Riot doesn't want just a single agent to change the META or make other agents unviable by simply making them disappear from the map, but to open up new options based on how the agents work together and not individually.
KJ or Cypher don't necessarily need to disappear from the META now, just compete more in terms of pickrate, as the existence of Vyse in itself benefits those who play Deadlock or Yoru, and that's a good thing. Creating a super broken agent, or not, that changes the META in a very extreme way doesn't seem like a good idea, as it practically puts the usability of other agents into question. Everyone would abuse this agent in any situation, as was the case with Chamber for a while.
For me, it wins in versatility and is good for punishing entry duelists like Jett, weakening them more in the META. This all seems like gradual work.
Cool video!
na vyse is ass everything but her flash sucks
This guy gets it, underrated comment
This is well said. It's basically like when Fade came out aka Vyse is pretty well released because she isn't broken. Balance wise its far better to release an agent underpowered than broken (like Chamber for example and Clove to a degree). However, compared to Deadlock/Iso, Vyse released perfectly fine for seeing her niche and has ways to improve.
@@funkycrawler619 fade got nerf and she isn’t very good
prob is in ranked nobody cares about teamplay they will do what they want so vyse still feels useless
bro said the gameplay is not good and goes on to get a 24k streak
It’s called aim agents don’t matter in tdm
@@Rafaljz-nq6fk it's called a joke not yappers
@@DesperadoBlinkhow do you know it’s a joke
Thats why hes the goat
@@diamondguy-xs4lg it was a joke...
I've been almost exclusively playing vyse since her release, and although don't disagree that other sentinels might be more fun for other people, I personally really enjoyed playing her. I think a big factor in her being seen as boring is like someone else mentioned, how slow her utility and playstyle is. All of her util is on slow activation, her wall requires a lot of patience. However, I don't think her wall is good and people are severely underestimated how much impact the wall gets even when people jump peak it. That's 7 seconds of stall time were your team can rotate, reposition, and on top of that if you time it right you're free to throw another razorvine after it goes down adding more stall. But yes, that does result in even more waiting, which people probably don't want to do. I however don't see much of a difference between the "fun" of playing vyse vs playing kj. Yes kj turret shoots the enemies dealing damage, but that's not you engaging with the enemies, just your utility. As for her alarmbot, in a sense it's just the same as vyse wall, you wait for it to pop and capitalize off it. There's also an equal amount, if not more counter play for kj alarmbot like simply being broken by guns or utility. Kj mollies and vyse razorvines are practically played the same way too, albeit vyse is a little slower on that. But overall me personally I don't find kj all that more fun to play than vyse, both can be kinda slow or fun at times, but even when their utility feels slow that doesn't take away from the overall fun of the kit. Also, if you get creative with vyse wall you'll get so much more fun out of it. Placing it predictably at the entrance of site is obviously going to be jump peaked and will result in boring gameplay. Change it up, place the wall on site somewhere, or lane on ascent, or on the spike.
Yeah I think people really forget that the wall is primarily useful because it's 100% unavoidable if enemies want to move through that area. They can bait it, but then they're stuck behind it, and regardless you're notified that someone is there.
It's good for isolating people and getting a kill, but it's also just really solid as a tripwire because there's no way around it aside from taking a different path.
I honestly really enjoy Vyse as a dedicated KJ/Cypher main, and am definitely gonna add her to my agent rotation. She has a super unique playstyle that really emphasises actively making solo trap plays on attack and baiting enemies into them in areas you want to control, and on defence she's so good at either stalling a push or isolating single picks, and the fact that the flash can be used aggressively really helps in those scenarios where you need active util to break a sightline but your initiator can't for whatever reason. Honestly she's my favourite agent they've released since probably Chamber
I do think there are better sentinels such as Cypher but I do like making some fun plays with her flash and I personally do enjoy her
Cypher and KJ always on 🔝 🔥
ive said this multiple times and ill say it again. agents. who require brain. arent good agents because most of valorants playerbase doesnt THINK STRATEGICALLY. vyse isnt a character you can just play like killjoy. vyse isnt a hold back enemies sentinel. shes a seperate and kill sentinel. she kills by making the enemy move however she wants them to move
Most of the agents I play that I enjoy allow for very tricky plays or elaborate setups that make you feel really good when they work. Vyse is one of those agents and I've been enjoying my time with her.
Cypher nerf should hopefully make her somewhat more valuable. Vyse flash is genuinely one of the most bugged abilities I have ever used and needs some sort of fix. You’ll get sound queues like “good hit” when it does not blind the enemy whatsoever. It also just gets stuck in walls in certain spots. The wall is okay, but that’s about it.
I kinda agree, I was in my Sage phase before Vyse came out and I swore she was the perfect agent for me, then I got my hands on her and her kit is just so clunky, slow and lacks playmaking potential, I just ended up going back to playing Omen instead.
Maybe i am wrong but, it seems like Vyse is very good if used right, even a low rank player can understand the drill : Isolate one figt win it with flash, delay the enemy team with mollies. Is very good in what she does, but if u like to lock down a site and punishing rushers obviously you are gonna play Cypher or Killjoy. It's fun if for someone who's like the strategic part of the game, if they just like shoting and making damage probably not for them (maybe Valorant is not for them). Yes i'm talking just aboutthe base stuff, i enjoy this agent very much
You made a good point that she isn’t in that flex sentinel role like deadlock, sage, or chamber. But she isn’t as reliable or strong as cypher or killjoy to lockdown being that primary sentinel. I think you could give a range of buffs to vyse that wouldn’t make her take over the meta, but maybe be on par as an alternate option. Maybe the thorn trap automatically triggers when enemies walk through it, and maybe it does a bit more damage or slow. Maybe she gets 2 walls. Or maybe her ult is similar to kayo knife where it tells you how many got hit with it. Any one of these changes could be big enough to put her in contention with cypher and kj.
As someone said already, all she needs is an alt fire to automatically trigger her thorn molleys when they land on the ground, without having to activate them
from time to time I use swiftplay to play the agents I don't normally for fun and to see what they can do. After like 1-2 weeks I stopped even noticing or acknowledging Vyse in the agent select menu even when trying different agents than I normally do.
As a vyse main I’m more than compliant on locking down one area if it helps out my team. If anything, offense/retaking could use some more help, especially if they could rework thorns
if you pair her wall with something like killjoys nanoswarms on icebox in the gap behind the zippline on B sight in a post plant situation it can be good
shes fun and balanced with high skill ceiling. People just so used to braindead cypher and killj
I agree and a common issue riot does with their sentinels is giving them a mediocre molly ability.
Killjoy is the only sentinel with a good molly.
Deadlock, Vyse, Sage, have mollies that underperform and it just makes me think of other abilities the agent could have. I think Riot should realize this common trend and either buff each agent's mollies or just give them rework and a new ability.
I really want her thorns to have an alt fire that activates upon landing. Does Killjoy need to get this feature too? No, Killjoy plays more passively and has no other entry kit while Vyse feels like a pseudo-initiator with her flash
I mean you could do that with her molly but it operates the same as a KJ molly so I don't see what your comparison is? The only difference is her molly has the hitbox of a continent so its easier to destroy.
You are so right. If they just made her thorns damage when they activate similar to kj her pick rate would go up
I really enjoy playing Vyse, but i enjoy playing Vyse for the reasons you mentioned. I usually play with my friend, and i am really good at getting selfish, and dying from stupidity. When i play Vyse it kind of forces me to take a step back, and wait, and play with my duo. The way she plays is a way for me to learn how to play slower
The only thing I'd fully wish to change with her right now, is make her molly do the same small damage if their in it (logically, I still dont how standing in thorns doesn't do damage). It doesn't need to increase damage like a KJ molly, but it does need to be a bit stronger given how much easier it is to destroy. She isn't boring at all and can def use some buffs, but its better to not released her completely broken (also fun is so subjective here). Also, it also comes to a point where it is less about her and more about nerfing competitors if need be (and I personally think Cypher could use nerfs and just redistributing power in the Sentinel role is a whole other thing).
I actually think vyse has been very fun, ive been instalocking her pretty much every game and winning most of them. I enjoy that i can do a little bit of everything, from info gathering with her flash, to flank watch, to controlling space with her thornes. Or i can just hold down the site with all her utility. And then i can just rip the ult out and w key people down with the team. Its fun, i can play however i want to play from round to round whether it be agressive info gather or passive lurker or just a sentinel
vyse is fs going to be slotted into kj comps as a secondary sentinel just like how deadlock is secondary sentinel to cypher
vyse is just not that fun for the average player to play, sure some people like vyse but riot needs to start thinking "is this fun for the majority of the playerbase?" rather than some specific person's play style
a good example of a fun sentinel is sage, sage's playstyle can be both aggressive or passive depending of what type of player you are, you can use your walls as an advantage for off-angles or if youre a passibe player, slow down the enemy team so your team can rotate
vyse on the other hand doesn't have that fun factor, sure she has flash and slows enemies, but you could pick better agents that has a flash and slow, breach and gekko are a good example
I disagree complete to the part you said where Riot should design characters to be fun for everyone instead of specific people. I honestly don't think there exist anything in this world that is "universally good" people gonna have the specific niche they enjoy and you really couldn't do anything about it. If I enjoy playing aggressively so much then why would I be playing Sentinel instead of duelist in the first place?
And crazy as it sound, there are people out there who prefer to play it safe and passive, otherwise why would KJ be so popular deaspite(imo) being the leagues more boring then Vyse
Not to mention that designing characters aiming with the majority in mind, overtime can make characters feel more stale and boring because everybody is the same now
Not everyone can enjoy playing Vyse and it's OK, there are other characters you can play, beside Vyse is obviously strong and viable enough that it would hurt if you wanna try something new
Also yes, I do agree, after like 40 games or so after her release that Vyse is very much boring but I disagree completely on it has anything to do with "being aggressive" as Dittokulz has stated, in my opinion it should be more so how void of creativity her kit are designed. Cypher for example, whether you want to play passive or aggressive, you have multiple options to approach it that can drastically affect how you play, same applies to Sage wall or Chamber tp. Where as Vyse most of times I feel like I'm just doing the same thing all over but slightly different
sage is fun? since when, sage is the simplest mechanic in the game
bro said sage is a fun sent
@@scoot5642 like I said, you can get creative with her. Otherwise, yeah agree. Playing Sage honestly feel like coping if you're only doing basic shit all over
I would love to see an agent that has tp abilities like chamber,yoru and omen there fun for plays
all the sentinel role is defined by is their ability to place util that can be destroyed. That is the only thing they all share. Thats prolly the only reason Viper isn't a sentinel, not just because of her smoke based kit, but because none of her util can be destroyed.
she’s my main this season avg 70% win rate. while yes i do think her ult is heavily lacking, Yall just ain’t creative enough to put her utility in crushing positions. She’s best played like a mini initiator and her kit is very versatile. Definitely not meant to be the only sentinel though
When she says, Flashing, I giggle.
1:26 teammate of the year award
Low elo sentinel main here: imo she is just hard to use without much coordination which is hard in low elo, flashes in itself are hard to play off, but the wall and molly also dont give any duel advantge (comparing to others like cypher (trip stun and cage) or deadlock (concussion) also the ultimate is the same, knowing enemy position or killing is always valuable, but if you arent coordianted vyse ult is just weak, you are either too late on site or have to go solo where the gun advantge matters less. So all in all people like agents that are self sufficient. Astra was the same, never played in normal games but everyone played her in esport.
if she could rise the wall by reusing the ability that would help, she is just deadlock without fun ult
I personally enjoy playing vyse and on defensive rounds she feels great when her kit is allowed to shine; but if u have to swing to another plant sight there's no abilities left to help retake position. Which leads to the fact that she is terrible on attack and only useful on protecting the back end and if ur playing with randos who r unable to take space for u leaves the team dead in the water.
I think Vyse is cool, but I think a lot of players struggle to play her in attack. Because the point is that her wall is not so strong in attack like in defense. i think the mechanic of the wall is great but also not. Sure we can split player off their team and can get info or an frag with it, but in a afterplant situation you dont want the enemy locked in with you rather locked out. I would like it that riot add the option to pull up the wall without enemy must walk through.
I just came back to the game and Im definitely not anyone insane at this game but I am really enjoying playing vyse. I started playing sentinels instead of duelists and she is a good middle ground between complex and simple execution for me.
No one dared to say that loud and clear, first, a multiplayer shooter game is meant firstly for the average casual player and not for the can play a whole day one can have plenty of time to analyze and dissect it. For that reason, it has to be fun to play right from the start, not by many experiments and watching tutorials. That's why agents like Reyna, Raze, Jett, Sage, and, even Viper are so popular, while Deadlock and, Astra are just niche.
they should make that you can pick up the wall or the spikes and maybe make that you can place the flash far away
iron sentinel main so take my words with a grain of salt: I find her less intuitive and enjoyable than both deadlock and killjoy (my main). as you said, it's hard to play off of her abilities, compared to a turret shooting or a deadlock trip (which needs to be buffed). idk, I'm not sure how I feel about her yet.
i mained vyse for a bit cuz i always try to use new agents. but atp, just lock in sage, their kit is really similqr except for the blind and that the razorvine can deal permanent damage
i tried to really learn vyse kit to the point where im really used to her kit. but if someone else in your solo queue locked in skye or breach, or even both, there’s no benefit for you to lock her in
Yoru and Fade are in all of my games those stats have to be wrong
True on other sites vyse has a way biger pick rate like 4,5 %, maybe the site is when vyse was released
I like the bush thing, but the wall is useless and her flash is not great but amazing ult. I ll rather pick a Kj or cypher still and even a sage on icebox than vyse
Her wall watches for flanks and if you put it on a site it slows their push
the wall delays attackers pushing site and catches the duelist offguard
@@K1ndaPoor wall is ass and the thorns her ass honestly whole kit but flash is ass ult is too short
@@K1ndaPoor i know but since u can jump over it its kinda useless, espically because u can see it
@@ANtroposo524u can’t jump over it, or do u mean jump over it to bait it out
As a flash initiator player myself she seems workable in ranked, but I just haven't shown a single interest in playing the character. It feels like an updated Sage with Sage feeling outdated and her being the new wall agent, or maybe Deadlock took that spot earlier... The flashes are in her kit, but like I dunno, the wall, thorns, and ult, doesn't have that push nature I want. I find more interest in Chamber if I wanted to play Sentinel but its probably just not my role
I like the flexibility of Vyse, and honestly I don't understand people that miss broken characters on their release. I didn't witness Chamber on Astra release, but I was there on Iso and that was HELL. Especially on low elo lobbies, that was not enjoyable. But what IS enjoyable, is cracking enemies' strong comp and abusing their weaknesses. That is fun for me.
I think that Vyse lacks utility combinations, her flash and wall can be used in a lot of scenarios, but her trap is mediocre.
At first I was super hyped. But after playing her for the first time yesterday. And a few more times. I think she can be fun. And there are some plays. But as someone who has the plastic aim. I feel liek you need to be good to use her. Like for example cypher u can shoot through walls. Deadlock you stun. Sage you can get over the wall. so on so on.
I don't think Vyse was meant as a very strong site holder like Cypher or KJ
One of the thing I hate about Vyse is that she's okayish at defending only 1 site. Her nade are virtually useless so if the enemy is decent enough to use their utils alongside the duelist entry and the duelist can dodge the flash you are entirely relying on your aim, which is dumb. Any attempts at remotely rotating or attacking is useless. Not a single thing can be used when attacking. You cannot lurk you cannot push you can't even help the push. Teams with a decent brain can easily out maneuvered her
As a sentinel main I very like Vyse. She feet good to my playstyle. Personnaly i thnik Cypher and Kj are better to "win the game", but Vyse kit help more abuse how ranked system work. I feel people scar less to go on Vyse site than Cypher or Kj. Thanks to that i have more kills on defence. Flashing for myself is also really nice. Overall i got more RR playing Vyse cuz have more kills.
I perform great whenever I use Vyse, so I guess it's a player preference thing.
People keep doing this tbh, mega hype for a new character and content then back to "boring/mid" 😅
Vyse is a decent agent but her kit is just need another sentinel or setup damage agent to use her full potential
I think if she can manually activate her wall it would be fun
She needs the Deadlock treatment with buffs
I am for a casual so I understand this could very much just be a me issue. But I will pretty much never play her as I dislike highly everything she does needs to be self triggered besides the wall that I don't see that helpful compared to sage's. Sage wall seems much better as it comes out already providing cover, and if someone wants try break through it you'll be aware.
So I ain't playing her for the wall, and I ain't playing her due to the rest all requires me to trigger it after the fact.
You compare that to KJ I can just place a turret that auto-fires for me, alarm Bot that again auto-triggers. The Nanoswarms are the only thing I have to think about. While Vyse I have to worry about the thorns and her flash and her wall. Of course if I was a high rank player I would be able to keep track and use everything no problem but I ain't so that's a lot for me to handle.
The devs that made the OG agents knew what they were doing. None of the new agents are fun or quirky to use.
Valorant needs to hold on releasing new agents, and balance the ones that are existed.
I don't know if I'm misinterpreted this video but the point I'm getting out of this video is "Vyse is boring because she's not aggressive" which I'm very much don't agree. Obviously as Sentinels you could only be so aggressive, why else would you be playing Sentinel instead of duelist anyway? There obviously are people who just wanna chill out and play very safe and passively, why else would KJ be so popular if it isn't the case?
And honestly in my opinion Vyse could might as well be the most aggressive sentinel we have right now single-handedly because she's the only one we had currently the has a flash. And yet I still very much agree she's hella boring. Why? Because she desperately lack creativity. Sage obviously has her infamous grim walls and Cypher I bet have more setup for a single site then Vyse on a whole map, in which some of each setup can much drastically affect how you play the round. Vyse on the otherhand have like, a few setup you can do per site and mostly every single one of which basically do the same thing but slightly different(which exceptions ofc)
She's literally my favourite agent. My peak was diamond and I usually play between gold and plat. I think she's a really good noob stomping support agent. Ppl at this rank usually flood in without much thought. Her wall really punishes the confident solo dash-in duelists. Imagine jett dash in early and everyone else gets stuck in main, doesnt matter how good ur aim when u all alone and i got teammates and flash and more.
On attack use the wall like chamber trip😂 Tripping flank is wayyyy btr than saving util for retake, especially in rank when u nt sure abt ur teammates. U can combo ur flash with other agents to do iniator plays and help the team overall.
That's just how I play her and how I have fun with her, she's such an active sentinel imo. I completely disagree with the community that dont pick her😅
I think RIOT should not shy away from making a "broken" agents, get people to pick up that agent first, they can nerf them later ......
I get that riot doesn't want just a single agent to change the meta or anything, but I feel like Vyse is extremely underpowered.
vyse just fells heavily map dependent and more of a chamber style sentinel of hold aggressive map space unlike cypher or kj who can just lock it all down and have more engaging kits
personally, i think vyse is the best agent for me
I feel most comfortable in sentinel, but since my friends play senti
i am forced to play a lot of initiators
vyse plays similarly to both senti and initiator
so now i one trick her
Meanwhile, Me using Vyse to get 1v1s where they are blind and can't run away: EZ :]
I dont agree that shes not unique. I think people dont pick her cuz shes too unique. Imo, her wall and thorns are weird to use, like why cant it be the opposite, the wall should be manually activated while her thorns are automatically triggered.
Vyse is good if the team listens to your util, but nobody does that. Maybe its just cause im in low elo but even in high elo sentinels struggle with this
People say the same shit about viper and she is one of the best agents in the game. It’s a huge reason why agents that require team play do the worst in this game at a ranked level
I'm new, when will the bundle come out?
You do admit that the reason she isn't picked that much is because most people didn't obtain her yet.
You could have made a better case if you compared her stats to previous new agents right after release.
As for not a fun agent, naturally those who do own vyse probably are less comfortable with her rather than the good old kj or cipher.
This whole video lacks base my guy...
As somone who likes new agents I normally play smokes or duelists and clove is a great mix which is good vyse is not
its too early to judge her pick rate
new agents always should be strong not OP but strong so people will actually play it
Besides the fact that Vyse is pretty boring, I think the 200k xp can be extremely unmotivating. That stuff sucks the hype out of a character cause you have to grind before you can even play her and by the time you are done the hype has already dropped down
Yo guys give me idea prelude or kuronami?
Prelude
kuronami
I like this comment and its replies
NGL, for some reason, she feels like a very "PROPER" sentinel. Nothing too "gimmicky" in her kit ......
Tho I don't play Val for over a year now, every now and then I check to see if there is an interesting new agent. So far, with the cinematic video this agent is by far the most boring. Like atleast I can always say the cinematic trailers are enjoyable but even that was boring for this agent
I main sova or vyse, you must I must drop 1 wire to stop push on site and save 1 to rotate if original site was not pushed. For the blind, it’s all about listening for those footsteps to drop it peek and push back.
Played her twice in ranked. Extremely boring agent. No personality, boring abilities etc.
Same verry plain agent
HOW DARE YOU CALL CYPHER FUN??
I honestly disagree and think she's fun. The flash, in particular, is a lot of fun, but that's preference. I think this video is a lot of grasping at straws for the most part, like talking about how active the utility is and the fact that kj Molly's do consistent damage vs. vyse only doing damage when moving. I don't think anyone cares about that stuff to be frank, but that's based on my group of people I know so maybe it's different for others.
I personally consider her a d tier as of being a controller tbh
Tbh, she kinda sucks at being a sentinel but she’s a pretty balanced agent. To me, she’s kinda more of a initiator type of agent.
She is wayyy harder to get value out of in a ranked setting as compared to Cypher and Killjoy and isnt as fun if you cant get value out of her wall or razorvine if you even just started rotating...
This is why no one wants to play her
I don't like Vyse because she literally has no engaging ability. In the end, she's marked as an initiator, but honestly, every time I play against a Vyse, I just shoot the flash before the enemy can even push, so it's not effective. Once that's destroyed, there aren’t any other initiation possibilities.
For example:
Sova has his dart and drone
Skye has her dog and flash
Gekko has Dizzy and Wingman
Fade has her eye and Ghost
Even Breach, who only has flashes, is still very offensive overall.
If you have a very aggressive team, she can be useful, but it's really a niche situation. I think her ult should show how many people are marked, like Killjoy's or Fade's ult.
She’s a sentinel?
@@philipehonning8529 she is initiator with focus to be a sentinal. Like cypher is sentinal but tendece to be controller
@@Wiesodas No she is just a Sentinel. She has one ability that you can argue can be used to initiate a push and even then it's primarily for site holding anyway
@@Wiesodas What are you on about, shes labelled as a sentinel, with 1 ability she maybe can you use too initiate?
Even if she's good, I doubt she's not played because she's boring. She's not played because it's impossible to farm credits for free in this game
As for me, I stopped play Vyse coz she kinda weaker then rest of the sentinels, her wall is to easy to play around same as her ult, which has really bad radius and to easy to avoid, her flash is almost impossible to use aggressively. In most situations she almost as weak as Deadlock (yes her flash is much more valuable then Deadlock net, but her wall cant really stop the hard push and give enough time for your teammates to rotate or reposition). While attacking she has almost same weak spots as Deadlock (she can't secure flanks like Sifer or Killjoy) so in total for me she more look like Deadlock 2.0 that's why i'm stopped playing her.
vyse is a agent that I personally have a high wr on, but I don't play her bc she's boring af
For me vyse is really fun agent in my opinion even more fun than deadlock and reyna
She is a d tier agent in the competitive enviorment and she doesn't look much better in ranked.
still think vyse is a vct agent. that ult gives you a free site
You can say the same thing to Killjoy lol
I had to say, Vsye is only good in defender.
her ult is just so easily countered, her kit is kinda mid and idk man i just don't find her as good
Yeah , its meh! almost all of her abilities can be broken and they are visible.
not boring she's fun to use
play for fun in a competitive game? If i want to enjoy or play for fun it would rather be in single player games or RPGs or Palworld like game. Who and How tf you play for fun in competitive game
because it’s a video game.
@@seven8703 and?
i am that 1.7%
Shes fun imo
Lol told you so! Weakest agent to date. She should as I said been made a healer instead.
Everything you said wasn't true either. Why the toxic positivity bro? She's actually bad, useless and weak. She's just a very poorly thought out agent and her looks make her look good instead. Worst agent yet period!
I am still having fun with her so I dont know what you are on about
0 mins 0 views??? bro fell off💀💀
Be quiet, please!
@@Lord.Cursed no🐵
Lol
Vyse is pretty stale gameplay, cypher nerf incoming to buff her pickrate
it's simple she's a bad sentinel. a huge role of sentinel is holding flank which deadlock and vyse are horrible at. people in ranked aren't playing like pro 5 man stack. they don't wanna be always pro-active about if someone has already entered a site or flanked them, especially in low to mid elos. people want something that will take away the headache of getting flanked or having the security that u will know one site not compromised just cause you went to another site to help your team and at least give you the info if the site is compromised. so yeah it's a sentinels issue. even chamber can hold flank. though he's more of a duelist
400 views in 25 minutes bro fell off