Huge Interceptors! From the Depths (Outdated)
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- Опубликовано: 3 фев 2021
- Fight fire with fire, fight missiles with missiles.
But what about fighting fire with missiles?
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#FromTheDepths #Missiles #Exploits 
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As of BetaTest 3.4.4, this no longer works. It now really is only small and medium missiles that can be interceptors.
This isn't cheese, this is justice!
Agreed
And justice, rains from above.
And honestly, 200k damage to H missiles *isn't even that much* - you would still need at least two of these to kill a lot of H missiles, especially ones with reinforced bodies.
Yea honestly this is just desperate measures at this point, the only way to avoid it is to outrun them..
This isn't cheese it's jesus christ wtf is that it makes me want to curl up in the shower and cry
CIWS crams when?
When I feel like demonstrating how terrible they are. XD
Crams do no damage to missiles last I checked, cant be used for CWIS. same goes for PAC cannons, though I only tested those against torpedos.
I do have on my list to test out air to air crams though.
Lol, I was experimenting with them. And while they can be used with the Anti-missile Local weapon controller, they appear to deal no damage to any projectiles.
@@siskinedge I tried frag a few month back and it worked. maybe I need to try again.
This new meta is gonna give me a headache. I remember when I put a single huge torpedo on a Marauder and I suddenly made it 10x scarier and over twice as expensive.
Haha
That is an astonishing price to scary ratio improvement.
@@TomCouger Yep, it could take on a Jacob's Treehouse and survive. Granted, I was the one driving it, but still a significant improvement.
Also, don't get me started on the Jacob's Scorn, it got demolished before it could even get close enough.
Achievement Unlocked: Pure Cheese
im betting its only viable against huge.
you would lose more mats regenerating the missile than you would save from preventing damage
It might actually be better to cheese the Large Missiles into interceptors on a dedicated anti-huge defense ship that you just spawn in when you have to deal with huge missile enemies. I mean, people usually use the small interceptors against normal sized missiles after all.
Who needs to build missiles to counter missile interceptors when you can just use a CIWS to shoot down the enemy interceptors?
Offensive CIWS sounds ridiculous yet worth a try.
CIWS?
@@EvonixTheGreatest I'm not sure what it actually stands for, but essentially an APS cannon that targets hostile projectiles and shoots them down. Typically Frag or Flak with Timed/Altitude Fuses.
@@EvonixTheGreatest close in weapon system. It's a brrrrrrrrrr that shoots down missiles
@@destroyer1667 thx
That case when you need to shoot down an RPG 7 using a Patriot missile
oh no the meta is getting ridiculous
even just a launchpad of a huge missile costs 18000 material. i doubt the AI has the recources to spam large-missile craft
Honestly the new meta of "duhhh biggur = beddur" is very frustrating.
I really dislike how high the HP of missiles is, IRL they are nowhere near that durable. Like I get that it needs balancing but it could at least be somewhat grounded in the reality.
It's a tricky balancing issue to be sure. On one hand, Huge missile's cost a massive amount of resources, with something like the basking shark spewing out small fleets worth of resources. So it would really suck if all those resources could just be deleted easily, But on the other hand, the current HP values on huge missile's makes point defense almost pointless unless you are dedicating a large footprint of your fleet to the task.
Well when the only other option to take down huge missiles is 500mm Pure kinetic railgun CIWS with godly accuracy I think the cheese is justified
Eh, a set of decent CIWS can sometimes do it... but they cost a stupid amount of mats and are pretty much dedicated solely to that purpose
Just pray they aren't reinforced.
Nah smaller than that can do it no problem, in fact AFAIK 125mm is the most efficient CIWS calibre. The thing is no matter what you use it's going to be expensive. Also the basking shark can;t be cost efficently shot down, which may be a balance issue.
Or just mess with their guidance
BorderWise, you make the learning curve so so so much better. I used to have no idea how good countermeasures are. Now my crafts dont go pop in 1 hit, but 3!
Huge missiles/torps really could use a rebalance on their health. : ( S tier PvP meta is typically defined as something which is only weak to itself. Here we have an example of something which isn't even defeated by itself. Options? Go faster than the missiles. Or destroy enemy before they can destroy you. I'd like to see an example of what it takes in a LAMS or CWIS that actually *can* take down a Basking Shark missile just to showcase the ridiculousness. :\
On a separate topic- this may have been patched out long ago but as cheese goes, it used to be that sails would work in space. They may not anymore, which would be good- it was free, frictionless propulsion.
Or for missile, defeat the guidance using decoys
@@arpioisme Fair point, and valid, though it won't work for all of them.
@@shawnreed343 yep...
I gotta wonder why they're so afraid of letting us have large/huge interceptors. They're still expensive as hell for what they do.
Myth: kinetic damage of that huge interceptor is enough to one shot a duster
Built some non-meta stargate inspired front facing flyer. It was a decent craft until i added one long, huge missile. The Thyr's LAMS+CIWS+Anti missiles can't even deal with one of these.
It's currently by far my most powerful non submarine build for it's category.
I basically turned that ship that wouldn't even scratch a Thyr into a menace which can cripple it at a significant material value disadvantage, which is kind of not OK for a non meta build.
It's just my opinion but i really dislike these huge missiles.
All you need is a couple of these in a long format and you can vaporize any campaign craft in a single volley. Even with next to no defence and weak armor , there's no way they can deal crippling damage to your craft. A 200K glass cannon brick with 4 of these can level an 800k Thyr...
The cheesiest thing I’ve ever done in this game, is on the campaign got a satellite which was literally a piece of wood with a radar stapled to it and some balloons, positioned it over a mountainous area and took on two Onyx Watch Bulwarks. They shot off the balloons and it fell into the mountains and the bulwarks couldn’t reach it, and it took like 40 minutes with a minigun but eventually they were both destroyed. Probably a dumb idea but it worked.
For the Javelin, you could have taken out the missile volley if you used cluster missiles with more interceptors inside. That would let you stagger the fire enough, without the smaller ones holding the huge ones back.
I think the real way to defeat huge missiles is with long range warping or to snipe the enemy craft beyond missile range. For example the basking shark missiles have a range of 2800m (224m/s*12.5s). So if your fighting distance + warp jump distance is greater than the missiles range you can just out range you opponent and warp away from the missiles. Do note that missiles can glide some distance.
Personally tho i think they should be removed since large thump missiles are bad enough.
Or you could just dodge
"hellloo ladies and gntlemen, and welcome to from the depths is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits".
maybe if the devs allowed it to be used without glitching since the economy seems to balance them.
bad Jay
An anti missile missile? Meh, I'll just build an anti anti missile missile missile.
You can make this work with using 4 different missile controllers where each controller has 2 small launchers and a single huge launcher. One controller for each missile of the javelin.
You can set missile priority if you use an AMCC but that involves putting them on a turret. But yeah, you can set them to only fire when a projectile of sufficient size is detected.
When you use flying cars to destroy missiles
CIWS crams when?
@@jurajsintaj6644 I... think that's doable, right? If you put them on the CWIS controller, timed fuse frag/HE... it'd have a terrible fire rate but the explosions are huge, it might not be quite as silly as it sounds for defeating large missiles...
@@masterofthelag8414 too bad that CIWS controllers can't control cram.
missile spam is already sorta cheesy so i dont really mind this
I think this seems like a bug that this can be done in those two ways but it should be a feature.
Keep up the good work :D
finally, an alternative to kinetic CIWS.
actually, that makes me wonder, how well would CRAM work against huge missiles? oh well here i go testing again
A test to check out the amount of cheese here would be to check out the material cost of building the setup you had there that imo worked like crap (not your fault) then apply the same amount of materials and space to small missile interceptors and or medium. Maybe even small to med cluster interceptors.
I really think that the small and medium ones would work better than the huge ones. Maybe adding some large ones in.
EDIT : I could see having 1 Huge or Large interceptor on a manual switch for when you REALLY need it. Maybe a larger one with some explosive in it too for some backup damage?
have you tried using medium interceptors for the same cost as the huge interceptors? The new missiles are strong but also super expensive. I feel like medium missiles for the same cost are about as good but more flexible.
They are expensive, but price shouldn't be a big balance factor, and it definitely shouldn't be uncounterable just because it's expensive lol.
@@Ivy_TSG but are they really uncounterable? They work pretty good against the current meta of giant things. Smaller faster craft that traditionally hat a very hard time can be a good way to counter them i guess.
@@blise518B Well, yeah. That is the ONLY counter, but i don't really consider it one. Just because enemy has a huge missile you shouldn't be forced to build something you don't like.
It's not matter of not using lasers against subs or not using CRAMs against small targets, it's matter of how you build the vehicle entirely.
@@Ivy_TSG you can also build Subs or Spacecraft or a lot of Decoys flares and jammers.
@@blise518B Sub doesn't sound like a good idea against huge torpedoes...
Can't missiles fly into space?
Remote guidance won't care.
Honestly, these things are too simple to build, do too much damage, and take too much to counter.
idk if you mentioned it, but in build mode you can also hover over the block with the interceptor part on it and press ctrl+c and paste it with ctrl+v on another block, i.e. a larger missile variant block, but I'm not 100% it will work
Nope, that doesn't work across differently sized missiles, unfortunately.
INHO you shouldn't compare interceptor's cost to targeted missile's cost but its damage potential (how much would I cost to patch a hole and deal with reduced offensive and defensive capability).
True. Smartest thing would be to calculate both, probably.
2:18, you can't select missile interceptor, because it is already selected...
But it's a good Info overall
The option still appears on small/medium missiles even if you have the head already selected. Point I was trying to make is that doesn't happen with the bigger missiles.
Huge missiles need to be able to be detected from atleast 10 kilometers away, because I don't think you could practically mount a battery of huge missile interceptors on a medium ship as complementary armament. So you would need to have a dedicated ship or a battleship toting these things, and as such they would need to be effective at long ranges in order to provide fleetwide defense.
i want to see a comparison of small interceptors vs. these at a similar volume
Still waiting till he says he got drunk.
ON NOT-SO-WELL FERMENTED CHEESE.
FYI, missile interceptors don't actually need an ACB trigger anymore.
*It's becoming self aware*
Is it even cheesy at all given the volume and cost involved? If Im remembering the blocks costs correctly then for the price of a number of huge interceptors needed to take out a full barrage from like a basking shark or something, you could have literally thousands of small interceptors. That many might be able to do the same even with their small size.
For that price, you could have even a spare craft and not worry about interceptors at all.
It’s probably more economic to spam large Decoys and insane strength signal jammers so the missiles can’t hit you.
Cheaper? Yes. Space Efficent? No. Then again, I am biased toward small vehicles.
@@mydgx9813 what would be more space effizient than Decoys+ Jammers? Doesn't that go hand in hand with smaller more agile craft ?
@@blise518B Normally yes, but I was also considering the size of the engines required to run an insane strength signal jammer (At the least, an efficent engine design). I do admit that an inefficent engine could run them, but my lack of ability with the Logistics Systems makes that a formula for disaster.
On a related, could you recommend a small (2-8 block tall) in-built vehicle I could reverse engineer for using these passive defence systems? I'm not very adept at using them effectively.
@@mydgx9813 for flares you can look at SS planes. They are pretty easy the only thing that's a bit tricky is optimal deploy time. not to early not to late. I recommend 1 or 2 long large Missiles fore flares.
Jammers are not used that often and my plan was to use them off battery's and only power them on when a missile is close so they don't use so much power all the time.
@@blise518B Damn that battery-run idea is good. Totally not about to steal that.
This video has so much cheese that I bet even the French would find this weird
But in all seriousness great video 10/10
All you have to do is have more than one system, one huge and small/medium interceptors
Gotta know all the cheese, what with devs adding more and more broken volume craft to the game :P
Ashes of Empires is perfectly balanced, what do you mean XD
what about a cluster interceptor
This cheese isn't even cheesy enough to stop huge missiles... huge missiles busted rn... need serious health decrease.
Ciws is still cheaper tho and also if you don't put it on a turret and let an acb control it instead of an anti munition controller it will also fire when small missiles are detected 😂
20 medium interceptors are strictly better than one of these tbh
At these sized, interceptors are just anti airships missiles...
Are you going to make a video about bypassing the "top speed" mechanic found on propulsion components to reach insane speed? There are multiple ways to do this and since drag maxs out at a certain point, it can be used to reach infinite speeds ( if it wasnt for the map border) the fastest straight line speed i have see was about 6500-7000m/s ( it was from one corner of nether to the other)
Well, I am NOW. 😁
@@BorderWise12 ok! If you want more info or example craft, dm me on discord
@@thegamingcat3202 Cheers!
has anyone ever told u that u put great background music
Cheers! Good to hear I choose it well. 😁
So what you're telling me is that rapid fire railguns have been outdated by huge missiles?
Well, no. I reckon a railgun CIWS is probably still better over missile defense, but that's a lot harder to make than a large interceptor.
He's not much of a CIWS guy
hey, I have not made the one shot am railgun yet
TBF unless your fighting a basking shark i'd argue this is massive overkill. Anything else can be dealt with, it will be a pain in the bum and your going to need an appropriately large missile defence setup. but it can be done. the Basking Shark, thats just evil.
Yup. Like I said, most of the time this is complete overkill.
@@BorderWise12 TBF i made the comment whilst still about 2/3 of the way through, you emphasised the weakpoints a lot better at the end. Teach me to think your about to do a long winded wind-down i guess.
Still a fun thing you can do mind, though honestly the basking shark is a bit of a worry point for me, it's flat out impossible to cost efficiently counter it's missiles, hell you can';t even really get close to doing so.
@@darthkarl99 Well, the easiest way is to swarm it with tiny craft, especially suicide craft. It doesn't even fire it's main missiles at small craft.
hello spider urchin
idk they didn't look super effective just useful sometimes. So I'd say it's still less chessy than just strapping on huge missiles in the first place. That said they're probably working on a hotfix already lol
could you make a cluster missile interceptor with a missile interceptor on the main missile?
I used the huge missiles to destroy the huge missiles.
Could be decent against big torpedoes . . .
They are! Not so much huge interceptors, but large ones work a treat. 👍
@@BorderWise12 Thanks. You've just robbed me of about three hours of my evening now . . . *fires up From the Depths*. :-)
Curious Idea.
Imagine a huge interceptor fired on a small missile
Might bring you close to a 1:1 damage per material ratio.
POV: YOU HAVE LOST YOUR MIND
Looks like someone took my advice
Nice
You reminded me that this existed, so yeah. :)
@@BorderWise12 told you about their existence like a year ago too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@guvyygvuhh298 Yup.
Question why not use a CIWS to priority large to huge, rather than using large to huge missile as interceptor? And set small to medium target smaller missle?. The cooldown of huge to large and its cost is not worth using them as interceptor in my opinion.
Yup. CIWS is probably your best, most reliable counter to huge missiles.
Problem is, it has to be a very good CIWS... which I can't really make right now. 😅
@@BorderWise12 I see, well if you want to tackle CIWS you can learn from your enemy, a good example is the megalodon, It has good CIWS tetris . It will be a nice learning process and dont be afraid to try and From the depths community are quite helpful
@@bd5317 Yup. Got plenty of help already, and reverse-engineering the CIWS on the Meg is definitely something I'm planning to do. 👍
@@bd5317 I'm going to have to take a look at that too. I'm... decent at making CIWS guns, but only because I try to put as many shells downrange as possible. I want to try and pick up a bit more of the fine art of CIWS.
@@strcmdrbookwyrm I dont know if this going to help but when Im building CIWS I have two category I use that never fail me, the long range, decent reload speed, with big damage and the close quarter gatling gun. You can also make a tracer, railgun CIWS but this is more on advance stuff and I have too many material category.
In other words, people will have to specialise their fleets. So they'll have to have one ship for shooting down missiles lmao
Are you doing a new torpedo interceptor video? I have no idea how to build them and your old video is outdated
just do a normal missile interceptor and add a propellor instead, use PASSIVE sonar as thats the only anti missile detection that works underwater.
In other words there is still not way to counter huge missiles
The problem with interceptors is that you need roughly the same cost and size of the missile system you want to stop: at this point you are better off shooting at the other ship an just try to avoid the incoming missile
Are missiles just stupidly overpowered right now?
They might be? They do seem very strong in the meta at the moment.
@@BorderWise12 I think you pointed it out well in the last video of the Ashes of a Empire campaign. Missiles have great Volume-to-Damage, not to mention the bigger missiles are insanely durable. I think these factors, along with ease of assembly, make them more overpowered the more you scale them up.
You know, for saying
Fight fire with fire, fight missiles with missiles.
But what about fighting fire with missiles?
I have turned the red button grey
Also btw can someone tell me what a good damage number looks like?
(E.g 22k or 4K so on so on)
A good damage number is difficult to work out (Rewrote this comment a few times trying to ensure it was both correct and simple), but essentially fire the weapon at a target made *purely* out of the kind of thing the weapon is meant to destroy (i.e. Alloy, AIs, APS parts, etc.). If it can destroy a good few blocks (I'd say 5, or one and a bit 4m Beams) every 10 seconds, the weapon is good *enough*.
TL:DR; Damage Numbers are less important than Performance beacuse of Armour Class
@@mydgx9813 ok thanks
so this could counter my 250 volley of crams then?
Hard to call this cheese, its such a bad trade overall and the number of them you'd need to even filter half of them is wildly impractical for actual use. Plus you'd have to remember to turn off those weapons every time you engage a fight that doesn't have huge missiles but just normal ones. Hell I can even imagine a horror scenario of fighting a craft with medium and huge missiles and these going for the medium ones every time.
I think with a Anti-Missile Cannon Controller you can select the type of missile you want it to launch at. I'll have to go back and look.
Praise the algorithm
MAXIMUM CHEESE ACHIEVED
Why does everyone only put turning parts on the backs of missiles? They should be distributed across both ends to maximize their efficiency.
I do that all the time?
@@BorderWise12 I was talking about the thumper missiles on the Basking Shark.
@@avi8aviate Oh, right. I think it's because they don't have to particularly agile.
@@BorderWise12 Ah.
is it really cheese to fight huge missiles with huge missiles of your own????? I dont see cheese here at all.
It's cheese in that it's using an exploit. But I agree, this doesn't feel particularly cheesy.
Haha CIWS go BRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Great... another craft for me to hate. The whole thump head missile cheese is really annoying. Ftd used to have specific counters that ACTUALLY countered things they were designed to and craft that were specifically themed for the factions. If anything, I think it's more unbalance now than ever. It's all missiles all the time. Make a missile and laser/rail craft that can move over 100ms with some decent defense and you're pretty much set.
I think the problem with missiles is even with how expensive they are to operate their volume-to-damage ratio is just too good. They are also easy to assemble, making them easy to slap onto just about anything.
I also miss when the factions had themes. I don't like how the Steel Striders and Onix Watch always get all the new toys instead of some of the factions who I think would actually have them. (I think the Onix watch are the worst example of this. I can understand why they'd have torpedos, but not any sort of missile). I'm exasperated by the fact that the other factions are getting reworks at the same time (The Twin Gaurd Drones, for example), but no new tech. Honesty, I think the only faction who should be using huge missiles is the Scarlet Dawn, as they already use all the meta cheeze anyway.
@@strcmdrbookwyrm I definitely agree. The OW should be all crams with a few aps (and maybe some torps). I think part of it may be that with the factions now being able to fight with each other, having limited weaponry makes them susceptible to getting wiped out early, that also means that every faction has to be meta. Lasers and missiles are so out of balance (imo) that it's pretty easy to one side roll through everything.
Am I the only one who thinks that huge missiles need a HP nerf?
Probably.
I am also never using huge missiles unless I want it to carry a huge swarm of short range thruster medium thumper missiles because they're just dumb in their damage output.
I normally love it when damage goes into levels of stupid but this is just stupid stupid and not enjoyable stupid if you catch my drift.
I think I get it: It's stupid because it's too easy.
And I think that's the problem with huge missiles, if your willing to ignore the cost it's just too easy to cripple a ship in a single shot. The advantage of missiles is they are easy to assemble and don't rely on any sort of subsystems to keep going (Unlike particle cannons, for example). That is great for an early game weapon, but it gets utterly silly as a late game weapon.
Borderwise, please don't forget the Damage Multiplier you get for the special Weapon Controller for Anti-Missile Weapons. It only aims your weapons at CRAM/Missiles and multiplies the Damage of the Turret they control. YES, also if that is a missile turret. The Damage Multiplier is only calculated at projectiles tho!
Wait, it boosts missile interceptors too?!
This I must test...
Edit: Nope, that doesn't work.
This is American cheese. It's cheese but it's it really?
I
Hate
Huge
Missiles
You're just jealous!
I still cant tell if BorderWise is British or New Zeander
He's a Kiwi. At least, that's what he tells me...
@@BorderWise12 eyy -sheep farmer- neighbour!! :D
@@3dwrecker_4660 😁🐑
well this is being removed as the devs actually patched it out
Kind of. They don't default to interceptors anymore, but you can still load in saved interceptors as large/huge missiles.
Butwhy?.gif
Useful.
Why shall you break the game
This is obviously a case of " Its not a bug, its a feature!" Why shouldnt this be in the game?
Hello borderwise
👋
Imagine being so early that the legend himself replies to your comment, that'd be the day I start my own channel
You tried
@@Oscar-vs5yw :(
"don't patch this out" wut?? that is a completely stupid thing to say. It's an artifact of a bug from a separate feature. You either want to be able to equip a huge missile with this stuff using the regular UI, or you want them to unbug the copy missile feature. What you asked doesn't make any sense. You basically just said, "I don't want to set up my huge missiles like every other missile. Please devs, don't fix this bug so I can equip huge missiles the way I want, but also don't allow me to do it normal. I like it to be stupid when I do things. It's the same reason why when I want toast for breakfast that I put the bread outside and let it sit under a magnifying glass under the sun for several hours, while I surround it with fans so that insects and birds might be deterred from eating my breakfast. Then I can eat toast at 3 in the afternoon. Buy a toaster? Nah, too easy."
Wow, way to overreact and deliberately misinterpret what's being said. I meant, 'Don't fix this, or if you fix anything, make it so we can use this without needing the bug.'