This point I made was gravely misunderstood by Eric Conn, who posted a reply, to which I replied. But I also promised a fuller treatment, which is what this post is.
The reason it is complicated is because an email from Canon press came out equating a preference with respect to seed oils, essential oils, and the 19th amendment as potential reasons for behaving as an Abigail
No I think it is much worse than that unfortunately. Goodbye, Doug. "One of the most cowardly things ordinary people do is to shut their eyes to facts. - C.S. Lewis Doug is being a coward and that it is basically a crime to notice that Jews own or run most of the major porn companies. That is a fact! Consistency Test: Me: Islamic radicals throw the most gay people off of the roofs of buildings in the Middle East. Douglas Wilson: “……………” Me: Jews own and operate most of the major porn companies in the world. Douglas Wilson: “JEW HATER!” He literally just told us his thoughts pattern ultimately prioritizes how people perceive Jewish people over the truth. That is a fatal prioritization. If Doug does not publicly acknowledge, without a word salad before or aft, the fact that Jewish people run most of the porn industry in the world, he is lying. Because Doug is releasing a video to tell you why he won’t say it and why you are a bigot for doing so, he is a coward.
@@justinthrift9603 Agreed. The abuse such as lying about Tobias and inciting people to make anonymous X accounts to attack Tobias ought to be repented of.
It's good for husband and wife to be able to talk things over..things having to do with day-to-day family life..with final decision resting with the husband. Assuming that it's just normal life considerations. The Nabals and Jezebels of this world usually can't be reasoned with.
The question is what is the more relevant issue of our current day and age here in 2024: is it closer to the ditch of sinful “feminism” or closer to the ditch of sinful “masculinity”? I think the obvious answer in today’s day and age is sinful feminism. So why does Doug Wilson seem to be fighting the dragons of yesteryear?
Because there’s usually a fishtailing motion toward the other ditch in response to a mainstream problem. This happened with the IFB in the 60s and Bill Gothard in the 90s. DW has a track record of generally avoiding those sorts of ditches. Sure, those movements weren’t absolutely huge, but they were fairly influential and did massive damage to people’s lives. My husband and I have grown up on the outskirts of those cultures and we saw the fall out of careless exegesis and legalism. I’m not claiming that DW and others addressing this issue are responding ideally. They should have been more nuanced, although I know that’s not on brand 😂. There does need to be some kind of response to the rise of militant, ethnicity-obsessed Christian nationalism though. Hopefully in the future the response will be more careful and thorough. I predict a lot of good people are going to suffer under carelessly crafted scriptural applications in the future as they embrace Christ Kirk off-shoots. God is faithful; this was to be expected, but man, it hurts to watch.
So what about seed oils, and essential oils, and the 19th amendment? These are examples that were in the email message that went out. Also, in the discussion on the set of Mr Wilson's neighborhood, the tone of the conversation was related to the right wing of the conservative party without really discussing what that meant. I might be on the right wing of the conservative party because of some things that I have noticed. But I am not a racist and I think that Hitler was a bad guy and that globalism is bad that nations are good and that marriage between cultures is okay among christians. Having something about seed oils and essential oils and repealing the 19th amendment, which would be a good thing as reasons for behaving as an Abigail muddy's the waters and Waters down the point.
This seems to be the best and clearest comment about where some true conflation/skepticism might be taking place, and it's a shame to see it not interacted with or taken seriously.
@@kaylar3197 it is a link to the video (which you can find). "We need more Abigails Abigail went behind her husband's back to stop her future husband from doing something wicked, thus saving both men in an afternoon (see 1 hour, 14 minutes in). Such wisdom and courage are in short supply-from seed oils to essential oils, repealing the 19th to revoicing the Nazis, get the wisdom to see the path and the courage to walk it."
@@kaylar3197 The email was from Canon Press and had a link to a video. It lead with "We need more Abigails... Abigail went behind her husband's back to stop her future husband from doing something wicked, thus saving both men in an afternoon (see 1 hour, 14 minutes in). "Such wisdom and courage are in short supply-from seed oils to essential oils, repealing the 19th to revoicing the Nazis, get the wisdom to see the path and the courage to walk it."
AND this is why we need to be more diligent about how we raise our kids! How we raise the expectations of our young men and teach them to lead by serving. Stop making dads the joke of the family. Our culture has created weak squishy men and the church has complied.
I think one of the issues here is people do not see themselves as sinners. Somehow, some have forgotten that Christians are prone to wander. In those seasons when you lose your head, pray you have an Abigail who is willing to respectfully go against your wishes and seek Godly counsel from your pastors to help you and safeguard your family. We thank God for the grace to resist political authority when they go haywire. Thank God for His grace to wives.
Abigail wasn't respectful and didn't go to the elders of their tribe or town, she went to a rouge warlord in the wilderness and told him her husband was a idiot fit only to be ignored.
Well said Doug! A Godly woman is strong. She is strong not from any need to be a “girl-boss” but because she trusts in God. The strongest, bravest, most independent women I have ever met are all Pious and Godly wives and mothers who have sought to live out God’s pattern for them in marriage. Thank God for strong Godly women. And think God for the strong Godly men who lead them in marriage.
I’m 37 with 6 kids. My wife and I both work and time is our most valuable resource. How do men my age have time to pastor a church, create content online, travel and debate while also leading their wives and raising their children in a half decent manner? I don’t know if the men arguing on this issue have the history, experience, time or resources to contend with Doug. It’s sorrowful to see this type of disagreement between men whom I have learned a great deal from. I think it wise, perhaps, for the younger men to open their ears and listen a bit longer before speaking. It sounds as though there is a quite a bit of misunderstanding. I don’t know all of the ins and outs of exactly what is being discussed here, but God has taught me to smell misunderstanding (intentional or otherwise) from miles away. It appears to be the case here. This video served as a great opportunity for me to further understand our nature as fallen man. I benefit greatly from this ministry and thank everyone involved. God bless.
@ I appreciate your productive response. The point I was making is that the men who are engaging in this online discussion are about my age and in a similar family layout. I cannot see how they could be doing their primary responsibilities well while engaging on twitter every few minutes and arguing in front of the whole internet. It seems contrary to what I’ve experienced as a family man who works full time and homeschools my 6 children.
With respect, I do not think Abigail was contravening Nabal - instead, she was trying to save him and his men from obliteration. I am not convinced that this passage is necessarily saying what Mr. Wilson says, it is saying. I do agree though that she had courage, fortitude and is a great example to other godly women.
@@NorthernNessa This is my point albeit I did not make that as clear as it should have been. Abigale did not complain to her elders, or take her concerns to family and friends. Her husband was drunk and unable to make a rational decision, so like the Proverbs 31 woman that she was, she made a decision, that saved her husband and servants from certain destruction. However, in doing so, she remained submissive.
There's nothing submissive about doing the opposite of what your husband said and telling a warlord who thinks you're hot that your husband is a drunk idiot who should be ignored. It's definitely a shrewdly pragmatic maneuver to avoid death at the hands of said rouge warlord, but in no way submissive.
Many years ago, on a completely different issue: "Doug Wilson is one of the most careful and bright, uh, reformed, post millennial, objectivist theologians around - and he’s got people around him that are dumb." - John Piper Whatever else one can say about Piper, this insightful comment is proving to be evergreen.
John Piper draw a false equivalency between killing 65 million preborn babies and Trump saying mean things on twitter. This should disqualify him in the mind of any rational Christian.
I would want my wife to do what she can to help me out of a Nabal state by any Biblical means necessary. The state of my soul is more important than my ego. Sadly, I don't think a lot of people in Joel's camp feel the same way. This is one of the dangers of "once saved always saved". Once these fools are convinced of their salvation, it subconsciously leads them to do what is right in their own eyes.
This is a much clearer explanatoon, perhaps the conversation with family was too short, therefore not fully connected. I tend to more agree, but still want always to default to Scripture first, for wives to be quiet, win their husbands with their godly character...none of us want to sit under a wrong, but for God's glory, may His will be done.
@ Good point. But it was a month consumed by the Tobias scandal and Christians should not treat each other like atheists, no matter the stance on NETTR.
I love how he can be so self-righteous when he knows very well that the pushback is coming because of the bizarre context in which this advice was given. This wasn't in the context of what a woman is do to when she is in an abusive situation. It was in some vague "purely hypothetical, asking for a friend" with some nebulous, (yet oddly specific), situation--"when the husband has gone too far right..." An odd snippet about "moving" and assertion that the daughter knows "more than one lady" in said vague situation. (Blink twice if your husband didn't sign the declaration.) What made it weirder still was that earlier in this awkward conversation was the assertion that it isn't culturally acceptable to ask another woman in Moscow "How are you doing really?" because the Wilsons can read hearts like God can and therefore know a woman would only ask a friend such a question if she was attempting to insert herself in the other woman's marriage and dig for gossip and denigrate the husband. Strange how this daughter should then know any private family problems and...suddenly it's okay to insert oneself and tell her to go to the elders... So... now a wife is to police her husband's politics and if he wants to move to....TN? UT? TX? She must appeal to the elders and pray to God they don't bungle things so badly her family becomes Twitter fodder. Should someone also remind the poor woman to check if her elders are in the habit of recording such struggle sessions? Let's ask White and Durbin about that one.
Never heard of Abigail until today and I consider myself quite the Bible reader. Rest assured, I will be doing a deep dive into this story and all of its implications. Thanks Doug!
@@ericjames7819 Eric James: "obscure story and trying to extrapolate from it" God's Word: All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)
@@TheNooch24 ok. All Scripture is profitable for teaching. Jesus tells the parable of 10 virgins waiting for their bridegroom. Then that means he approves of polygamy.
@@ericjames7819 No. Does that mean we chalk up the parable of the ten virgins to "obscure story" and not "extrapolate from it"? The fact you think that's a coherent response just shows you have no understanding of hermeneutics. Just because you might not know how to properly apply 2 Timothy 3:16 to all of Scripture doesn't mean other people cannot.
Helpful clarification Pastor Wilson! No one claimed universal submission. They questioned your wisdom in implying women should resist their husbands if they are too right wing.
Your patience with the segment of listeners who appear to perch in the background just waiting to take you out of context is admirable to say the least. Every time you take the time to explain, we all learn more. So weather or not you convince your critics, we are grateful for all this teaching. May God bless you!
Great explanation. Sadly, all this was crystal clear from the beginning and went without saying. It seems like people purposefully misinterpreted Doug to be contentious. The social-media-immersed world is following the mainstream media in sensationalizing everything for the sake of generating engagement. I was disappointed with Brian Sauvé, particularly for his misrepresentation of what was pretty clear. His essential-oil rhetoric made him seem either dense or dishonest and contentious. Sadly, I suspect the latter.
Except it literally wasn’t clear when you take the timing and whole situation (and podcast itself) into context. What has Doug and Moscow been aggressively targeting the past month? Who has the majority of their comments been aimed at? What Doug really meant was obvious from the beginning.
This is very confusing - lots of conflation. In reality, nearly all middle aged men / husbands today - are suffering heavily (statistically) at the hands of his boss babe wife - and the churches always side with wife. The scenario you talk about is very small minority. Not a good case study. I felt this did more damage than good.
Auron is right, but as the RRM guys just said, it’s gotta be in-person, real relationship. I cannot in a million years think what Conn meant is what Wilson is saying here. This was a good pastoral rebuke if so. But it isn’t. GET IN PERSON!
The more Doug speaks and writes on: marital issues like (sole) responsibility placed on the man for both his and his wife’s sins, the limits of wifely submission, exceptions to the rule for everything thereby invalidating the rule (sort of sometimes), and his emphasis on admonishing boneheaded husbands while downplaying contentious wives, the more the waters get muddy. Clarity is lacking, but the words keep coming. Yes, I have been reading DW since Credenda Agenda was in print, I have thought he either has a blind spot in these issues or has failed to effectively communicate his nuisance or maybe I am that boneheaded husband.
Doug and James are not reading the room. And they are losing generations of men, young and not so young. Plenty of tickets for the Boneheaded Express, sadly.
Clarity is not lacking. Downplaying contentious wives?? You can't be serious. If there is a question of clarity, men like Wilson and White get the benefit of the doubt all day long. Their faithful lives and ministries have earned them that. Wise older men see issues coming and they are sounding the alarm. Ignore these warnings at your peril.
@@CovenantPresbyterianCochrane So Doug is a prophet now? What happens if he's wrong? Did you listen to Tobias's last podcast? I listened to the first 15 minutes and found it to be unhinged. What do you think of the first 15 minutes? Please let us know.
@lkae4 No one said anything about Doug being a prophet. Wisdom comes from study and experience, both of which Wilson and White have in abundance. Both understand first principles, and can see how certain issues, when followed to their logical conclusions, will inevitably lead to problems. Wilson and White have been at the forefront for years telling us that clown world was coming, and why. Not because they are prophets, but because they understand simple cause and effect.
💔 humility and honor is sorely lacking. Some in the Reformed camp are looking very worldly these days and don't see it. Too puffed up by knowledge, quick to speak, slow to listen, and quick to become angry (triggered). These controversies played out before the world just to have a one up on another is a blemish to what Christ died for. Has any stopped to consider Christ? Pastor Doug has been once again and not always misunderstood and it shows in how petty the responses are. Church, judgment starts with us. The Lord loves His own but He will not be mocked. He will bring the refiner's fire. Things like this should cause us to all bow down in shame leading to an Ezra style of repentance.
I foresee a near term future where churches will be full of people, both man and woman, in their 30s that never married and the general population decreasing because of lack of child birth. Just told my son, which is having problems with his girlfriend of years, that counseling is as good as ones want to hear and OBEY. Know what the Bible says is very good but of null effect in practical life if someone doesn't want to obey it... Doug definition of limited authority and when disobey is what the Bible teaches but that teaching have no effect if someone doesn't want to obey and keep trying to find justifications for that ... Man should lead in Obedience to Gods Command (Joshua had no where to go but lead the battles) and woman should submit in obedience to Gods command, the common here is God command. He also gave the ultimate examples of leading (Dying at the Cross) and submitting (pouring out bloody sweat) so we are without excuse....
As an outsider looking in at the ongoing (and apparently growing) divisions in the various Reformed groups, the only thing I can say with 100% certainty is that reformed men spend more time online than a 13 year old girl.
Curious about this: Dad had my Mom get the shot. She didn't want it but did it out of submission to him. They have no idea we were upset about it (for several reasons), but it might be helpful to hear various perspectives from people who read the Bible and try to obey God.
Thats a tough one. As a 'person', made in His image, regardless whether a wife/husband do we not have bodily autonomy over what we put into our bodies? If she went against her conscience, thats a problem for her (and for him) I think.
Romans 14 speaks to this. Quote : Dr. R.C. Sproul writes in his commentary Romans: "If we believe something is a sin, even if it is not, yet we participate in it, then we have committed a sin because we have done something we believe to be wrong, whether or not it actually is wrong. The sin is not [inherent to the act] . . . the sin is doing something that we think is evil."
Question, i get the feeling that David and Abigail were flirting and locking eyes a bit to long. Otherwise, why marry her so quickly after her husband's death?
Poor reverend Doug Willison. Out here every day making culture war on really bad and sinful forces in the world, and them forced to circle the wagons to remind his own friends that we do infact love Godly women and support Christ-honoring marriage. That "longhouse" is the bone of your bone, and the flesh of your flesh. Cleave to it!
Uncle Doug we know this already. Please tell us what should a man do if his wife is unsubmissive? a) rebuke her firmly b) keep calm and trust God c) call the pastor d) put his arms around her and tell her everything is okay
43 years of marriage and one thing has always worked for me; tell her I am going to complain to God. Then I bitterly complain to God if she doesn't stop. I then walk away and give the silence treatment as recommended by Scripture (better to live on the roof than with a contentious woman)Then "things happen ". I don't do anything but react with a grin as her God tips over her house of cards and she apologizes. Sometimes of course it is me who's corrected by our Boss. If God is part of your marriage, involve Him.
@@michaellautermilch9185 I don't know why they don't just post the link in the description, so people wouldn't have the same confusion every single time.
The slavery book, the “C*nt” reference, the Johnny Cash middle finger - you’ve inspired a generation of young men who are unafraid of shocking their elders in any establishment. If you want to reach them, you need to stop using establishment tactics.
Uncle Doug sure is worried these days about his tribe leaving for the EO and the RCC. I guess Chesterton’s wife should not have submitted when her husband became Catholic.
I only have one virgin daughter left. Other than my 3 daughters, 2 married, I do not personally know ANY Christian woman worth marriage. I have occasionally seen non Christians young women more wife material than today's Christian young women. Of course that's just my tiny area of Miami.
@ nope i mean she. Makes sense in context of what doug was saying. If she is going to disobey him, she can't do so rebelliously but must maintain a posture of submission
@@cosmictreason2242 - Well then that is kind of an oxymoron since submission means obedience. I think you mean to say that she needs to be respectful, even if she is going to be disobedient.
@@cosmictreason2242 - I am struggling with understanding the point you are trying to make. Do you believe that a wives submission (obedience) to her husband is secondary to her obedience to God? Do you believe that if her husband tells her to do something sinful (something God has told her not to do) that she is supposed to do it?
Did it occur to you at any point while writing your comment or after writing it that Doug Wilson was arguing for the principle - that there are some conditions when a wife should not go along with her husband's lead - and not "noticing" specifically? Did you miss the part when he drew the comical (I hope) picture of a man naming a bunch of kittens after a bunch of Jews and then stomping on them as an example of the kind "noticing" he takes issue with?
@@elijahrittenhouse3943 - I understand principal but him saying that we need more Abigail's is also saying that we need more Nabal's. In our current society, a Christina woman married to an actual Nabal is going to be very, very rare. Why argue for the .001% situation when he could spend more time teaching wives they need to be submissive to their husbands and properly teaching 1 Peter 3:1-6, which will benefit hundreds of thousands of more people than this Abigail nonsense, which just gives women more excuses to go against their husbands?
Ugly how you treat the Kevin DY kind better than Conn, who is right next to you. If you really thought he’s on the same page why all the rhetorical questions? You obviously are straw manning him. You also never addressed the most obvious objections about seed oils and questioning the narrative being an apparently serious concern to take to elders. Ridiculous. Also, there are many of us who have been reading your stuff and with you longer than 18 months who have our heads cocked at this recent stuff. A lot of us. You are not so stable on your positions as you give yourself credit for.
This kind of misappropriation of scripture has plagued the church since it's beginnings, it has produced cultish offshoots and generally been a burr under the saddle from clergy to pew. Thanks Doug for the clarification and Abigail for your pithy participation...David had a lot of faults but recognizing a woman with pith wasn't one of them
In Alcoholics Anonymous, a new member will stand up and ask, "What is the first thing you should do when you have hit rock bottom." Inevitably, from the back, an old timer will reply, "Stop digging." Doug: "Stop digging."
To be honest and consistent, you need to call your daughter to repentance for saying that she must obey her leftist husband and get the jab. THATS WHY WE ARE DEBATING. You cannot speak out if both sides of your mouth and expect anything other than the treatment you are receiving now
As another comment points out; nowhere did Abigail contradict nor rebel against Nabal. He never forbade her to aid David and a wife had a rightful allotment. She merely went around Nabal. That said, there's obviously times a woman must flatly refuse. So wrong use of Scripture but correct point made. This is a common pattern with Doug. He gets a moral point dead center right. Then misses Scripture that supports it such "we must obey God rather than men" while misreading other passages. This is of course necessary to maintain a Reformed theology and postmillenialism. Gospel correct, good moral compass with defective hermeneutics.
@@Mr_Gabbles We are all saved by a technicality. What else is substitutionary sacrifice and then imputation but a legal technicality? The only reason Justice and Mercy can kiss in Christ is because of several legal loopholes. Doug Wilson is not a very clear thinker from what I have heard over some time now. Nonetheless he is a godly man who gets not just the crucial points correct but many of the smaller ones also. Now back to the woman who was not comanded to obey Adam until the curse. Adam also did not own her until he named her because that's how it goes. Call it the correct meaning of "name it and claim it" which the prosperity creeps turn into a doctrine of demons. That technicality includes the fact that the woman did not TECHNICALLY sin in the garden. That is explicitly stated in 1 tim 2:11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first [h]created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was [ thoroughly deceived, apatao ] deceived and [Literally: has come, has become ] became a wrongdoer. 15 But [k]women will be [l]preserved through [m]childbirth-if they continue in faith, love, and sanctity, with moderation. Nowhere is it written who told the woman, who was NOT yet Eve, not to eat of the fruit but we've a strong indication it was Adam as He ADDED to God's command "...neither shall you touch it." much as Pharisees with good intentions added to God's law. Much as Reformers keep adding whatever pieces of Moses suits them to the Law of Christ given in the newest Testament. Note, ALL creation fell because of Adam, NOT Eve. All Adam's descendants were then subject to original sin but...not the woman. So we are saved by the technicality that the woman BECAME a sinner though ignorance. As Paul makes abundantly clear in Romans, for God ignorance IS an excuse from the law (Acts 17:30) I have way more and none of it is from commentaries. So you know, it usually takes me a weak to go through a single verse and on Titus 1:12 I spent over 2 years.
If you're a man who spends lots of time commenting on RUclips content, and you're wondering if YOU'RE the one being spoken about, it's likely you are. The community feels sorry for any woman who unwisely hitched herself to the wagon of a social-media-addicted Warrior Wannabe. Your phone--your digital sword--is radicalizing you. And if you are leading a family into hatred of your Digital Opponents, then you're leading your family into sin. You're not some enlightened King with a calling from on High to argue with strangers on the internet. You're just embarrassing. 😊 What's that? Does someone think I sound like a Feminist?... Meh, I won't hear it because I'm logging off for the week... Anyone may take a few shots and then role for damage. 😂 Just tell the rest of the table if I get wrecked!
You ARE catering to feminist. Abigail didn't disobey her husband. Nothing she did was disrespectful or dishonoring. She was trying to help her husband. What you told women to do was disobey and disrespect.
No. This is coming from someone who's not a fan of Doug Wilson. Abigail went against her husband's wishes. Just like even though we are to submit to authority, we are permitted to go against their rules when it contradicts God's will.
@Wanton4442 Please re-read the text. I'm not saying this to be condescending, but it is very clear from the text that Abigail went against her husband's wishes, and she even went so far as to tell King David that her husband was a "worthless fellow" and a foolish man (1Sam 25:25). How could you possibly read that and yet fail to realise that Abigail contravened her husband?
He is advising wives who are being abused or treated like crap by her husband to seek pastoral help. He is advising blockheaded abusive men to get over themselves and stop treating their wives like property or worse slaves. He is trying to let the abused woman know that she doesn’t have to put up with that crap. The Bible says a woman should submit to her husband, but the man also has the responsibility to love her the way that Christ loved the church. Both verses found in the same portion of scripture but one is often more emphasized than the other. Ephesians 5:22-33. It was actually nice for me to hear a preacher that actually emphasizes the man’s role in the relationship for once, and not just the wives submit to your husband part.
@@damilolaa.3752stating a fact that Jewish people run porn companies is outside of God’s will? If someone’s wife refuses to believe this I think they should take them before the elders. What say you?
Talk slower. No, I’m not dumb…but the rapid-fire pace comes off as a little desperate. If I can’t process what you are saying, the. Content is lost. I suspect your content is helpful, but I’m processing about 30%.
For all Protestants who disagree with Pastor Wilson on this point (the point of husband’s authority being a limited authority under God). I want you to realize you have just condemned yourself as rebels against God’s Church. If a wife does not have the authority to obey God and resist a disobedient husband, under what guise of authority did Luther or any other reformer hope to appeal to, when they resisted the authority of the Church? Hebrews 13:17, “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls.” I am a Presbyterian and not a RC or an EO member, but this is only possible because lawful authority at is best state is a derivative authority. Because it is derivative and not authority in and of itself, it is able to be resisted when said derivative authority acts as an authority unto itself. Understand that if you condemn a wife who resists the authority of her disobedient husband then the only logical progression is to condemn the reformation as well. Where does that leave you?
How was Abagail obeying God in that story? Also 1 Peter 3:1-2 - Wives are to obey their husbands, even if they are being disobedient to the word, even if it causes the wives to suffer in the process. I don't think that anyone in this argument is saying that a husbands authority is absolute. It is where the wife draws the line that seems to be the issue.
@ in what way did Abigail disobey God in the story? I would suggest that Abigail obeyed God in a similar way to how Rahab obeyed God when she betrayed her people. Wives are to obey their husbands, even when they are disobedient. However, I believe the line is the same for all lesser magistrates. As a sheriff has a duty to the people he has sworn to protect (even if his superiors commands he violates the citizens under his protection), so also a wife has a duty to the individuals in house even if her block head husband has forfeited all the individuals lives under his care with his belligerent, wicked attitude (for example) This (like all truth) I think is less about right and wrong being spelled out explicitly and more about maturating into Christ and exercising wisdom to discern between good and evil. We are told that we will judge angels. I’m sure that judging angels will require wisdom greater than that of Solomon.
@@FireSquad101 - I my experience, there are very few women who have the wisdom or maturity to make these choices properly. For every 10,000 (so called) modern day Abigail's, I would estimate the at least 9,999 aren't in anywhere close to a situation that justifies going against their husband. I think this entire notion of encouraging more Abagail's is unwise and reckless and likely to do way more damage than good. Regarding judging angels, I doubt women will be included in that task.
@@j.p.5716 your probably right that most women right now are not wise enough to divine between right and wrong and act upon such wisdom. Your claim proves too much though. Most men ring now are probably not mature enough either to divine between right and wrong and act wisely upon such wisdom. I’ll up your ante even more. Children (who are the least likely to be mature) are commanded to,” obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.” You see, whether we live up to the call to mature into Christ and judge right from wrong and act accordingly, we are commanded to do so, all of us (man, woman, and child). Whether it’s reckless or not to encourage woman to discern right from wrong, I’ll remind you that the truth is risky and the argumentation style you are using is exactly what the papist used against Luther when he proclaimed (the truth) of the gospel (the we are saved by unearned grace). They thought it was too risky to let the dumb masses hear the unfiltered truth and judge accordingly. I think they were wrong. God wants us (peasants, woman, or otherwise) to join Him in the divine council as full humans. I direct your attention to 1st Peter 3:7. It states that wives a fellow heirs with us of the gracious gift of life. If woman are not participating in judging angels, it is only because (as in this life) they are the other side to the coin of humanity and are participating in some glorious reality to which we men are not equipped. Notice the two realities 1st Corinthians in which it states that man is the head of woman as Christ is the head of Man; and that woman is the glory of man just as man is the glory of God. Men and women are the two sides of Adam (Man). These two (man and woman) each bare what Man (Adam) was created to bear, which is God’s image. What is exactly the Imago Dei? It’s probably (at least in part) the status as rulers over creation. Man bears a greater portion of God’s authority and Woman a greater portion of God’s glory. So, either glorified woman are participating in judging angles alongside glorified men (and we have nothing from scripture to say they aren’t) or they are participating in a weighty glorified reality to which even glorified man is ill equipped. Either way, God created woman is no slouch and capable of discerning right from wrong on our temporal world.
The wife's submission is not conditional but is "as to the Lord" , that is he is to be Christ like , loving her as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her - that is the husband is to practice self sacrifice. Submission is the easy bit, the hard bit is being Christ like - husbands need to concentrate on that and leave their wives to look after the submission.
Lol. The funny thing is that both men and women are taught the same one-sided message. MEN MUST BE CHRIST LIKE! "as unto the Lord" means obey like you would obey Jesus. Most women - and effeminate men - look for ways to exact the *least* amount of submission. Is that the way?
Husbands are to just IGNORE their wives sin? How is that biblical? Have you not read Ephesians 5:25-27? Husbands are to wash their wives in the water of the word to help them with their sanctification. Also have you ignored the other way the Christ loves His bride the church? Revelation 3:19.
And this my friends is what makes Doug so slippery. With his words he says agreeable things like this where “the submission should never be absolute.” However, with his pastoral actions, he develops Nabals left and right and if the wives get out of line by complaining about any ungodliness, they are first asked if they’ve been as sexually open to their husbands as they ought to be, then blamed for their husbands sin bc it’s usually them who tempted him into it. This is because in Doug’s view, husbands have all the power and authority, but when things go wrong the women and the children bear all the responsibility. Doug is a snake. If you don’t believe me, look up what happened with Steven Sitler or Jim Nance for starters. After that? Happy worm-holing.
I hate being locked out of Xitter. I was able to view Eric Conn's vile, Jew hating comments, but not your reply. Oh, well. I'd give anything to have a godly husband to whom I could submit.
Wives are to submit to their husbands in everything, as long as it isn't SIN. Why is this complicated?
Because this submission has been abused and todays feminist are loony
Do such godly women still exist? That is my question.
The reason it is complicated is because an email from Canon press came out equating a preference with respect to seed oils, essential oils, and the 19th amendment as potential reasons for behaving as an Abigail
@@keithwilson6060Maybe you need to get out more
Where is that found?. I must have missed it.
I think perhaps this controversy is a storm in a teacup . Joel is not a nazi nor does Doug agree necessarily with everything about ww2 narrative.
Yeah it’s just the people against any form of Christian nationalism looking for a kink in the armor
All the more reason that this should have been handled privately, without the abuse of brothers.
No I think it is much worse than that unfortunately.
Goodbye, Doug.
"One of the most cowardly things ordinary people do is to shut their eyes to facts. - C.S. Lewis
Doug is being a coward and that it is basically a crime to notice that Jews own or run most of the major porn companies. That is a fact!
Consistency Test:
Me: Islamic radicals throw the most gay people off of the roofs of buildings in the Middle East.
Douglas Wilson: “……………”
Me: Jews own and operate most of the major porn companies in the world.
Douglas Wilson: “JEW HATER!”
He literally just told us his thoughts pattern ultimately prioritizes how people perceive Jewish people over the truth. That is a fatal prioritization.
If Doug does not publicly acknowledge, without a word salad before or aft, the fact that Jewish people run most of the porn industry in the world, he is lying.
Because Doug is releasing a video to tell you why he won’t say it and why you are a bigot for doing so, he is a coward.
@@justinthrift9603 Agreed. The abuse such as lying about Tobias and inciting people to make anonymous X accounts to attack Tobias ought to be repented of.
It's good for husband and wife to be able to talk things over..things having to do with day-to-day family life..with final decision resting with the husband. Assuming that it's just normal life considerations. The Nabals and Jezebels of this world usually can't be reasoned with.
The question is what is the more relevant issue of our current day and age here in 2024: is it closer to the ditch of sinful “feminism” or closer to the ditch of sinful “masculinity”?
I think the obvious answer in today’s day and age is sinful feminism. So why does Doug Wilson seem to be fighting the dragons of yesteryear?
Because there’s usually a fishtailing motion toward the other ditch in response to a mainstream problem. This happened with the IFB in the 60s and Bill Gothard in the 90s. DW has a track record of generally avoiding those sorts of ditches. Sure, those movements weren’t absolutely huge, but they were fairly influential and did massive damage to people’s lives. My husband and I have grown up on the outskirts of those cultures and we saw the fall out of careless exegesis and legalism. I’m not claiming that DW and others addressing this issue are responding ideally. They should have been more nuanced, although I know that’s not on brand 😂. There does need to be some kind of response to the rise of militant, ethnicity-obsessed Christian nationalism though. Hopefully in the future the response will be more careful and thorough. I predict a lot of good people are going to suffer under carelessly crafted scriptural applications in the future as they embrace Christ Kirk off-shoots. God is faithful; this was to be expected, but man, it hurts to watch.
A completely reasonable position, well within the bounds of orthodoxy and should be incontrovertable for all Christians.
Great reply! Thank you for all you do!
Thank you so much Pastor Doug!!! Your reply is nothing short of WONDERFUL!!! Soli Deo Gloria!!!
So what about seed oils, and essential oils, and the 19th amendment?
These are examples that were in the email message that went out. Also, in the discussion on the set of Mr Wilson's neighborhood, the tone of the conversation was related to the right wing of the conservative party without really discussing what that meant. I might be on the right wing of the conservative party because of some things that I have noticed. But I am not a racist and I think that Hitler was a bad guy and that globalism is bad that nations are good and that marriage between cultures is okay among christians.
Having something about seed oils and essential oils and repealing the 19th amendment, which would be a good thing as reasons for behaving as an Abigail muddy's the waters and Waters down the point.
This seems to be the best and clearest comment about where some true conflation/skepticism might be taking place, and it's a shame to see it not interacted with or taken seriously.
Who was the email from and when did it go out? I am on some DW related lists, but not all of them so maybe I didn’t get this email.
Perhaps you could copy and paste the text of the passage in question? I was just hoping for more context.
@@kaylar3197 it is a link to the video (which you can find).
"We need more Abigails
Abigail went behind her husband's back to stop her future husband from doing something wicked, thus saving both men in an afternoon (see 1 hour, 14 minutes in).
Such wisdom and courage are in short supply-from seed oils to essential oils, repealing the 19th to revoicing the Nazis, get the wisdom to see the path and the courage to walk it."
@@kaylar3197 The email was from Canon Press and had a link to a video. It lead with "We need more Abigails...
Abigail went behind her husband's back to stop her future husband from doing something wicked, thus saving both men in an afternoon (see 1 hour, 14 minutes in).
"Such wisdom and courage are in short supply-from seed oils to essential oils, repealing the 19th to revoicing the Nazis, get the wisdom to see the path and the courage to walk it."
AND this is why we need to be more diligent about how we raise our kids! How we raise the expectations of our young men and teach them to lead by serving. Stop making dads the joke of the family. Our culture has created weak squishy men and the church has complied.
I think one of the issues here is people do not see themselves as sinners. Somehow, some have forgotten that Christians are prone to wander.
In those seasons when you lose your head, pray you have an Abigail who is willing to respectfully go against your wishes and seek Godly counsel from your pastors to help you and safeguard your family.
We thank God for the grace to resist political authority when they go haywire. Thank God for His grace to wives.
Abigail wasn't respectful and didn't go to the elders of their tribe or town, she went to a rouge warlord in the wilderness and told him her husband was a idiot fit only to be ignored.
Well said Doug! A Godly woman is strong. She is strong not from any need to be a “girl-boss” but because she trusts in God.
The strongest, bravest, most independent women I have ever met are all Pious and Godly wives and mothers who have sought to live out God’s pattern for them in marriage. Thank God for strong Godly women. And think God for the strong Godly men who lead them in marriage.
After catching up on the debate, I think your take is perfectly reasonable and biblical.
1:53 “Insubordinate, and churlish!”
Thank you DW!
I’m 37 with 6 kids. My wife and I both work and time is our most valuable resource. How do men my age have time to pastor a church, create content online, travel and debate while also leading their wives and raising their children in a half decent manner? I don’t know if the men arguing on this issue have the history, experience, time or resources to contend with Doug. It’s sorrowful to see this type of disagreement between men whom I have learned a great deal from. I think it wise, perhaps, for the younger men to open their ears and listen a bit longer before speaking. It sounds as though there is a quite a bit of misunderstanding. I don’t know all of the ins and outs of exactly what is being discussed here, but God has taught me to smell misunderstanding (intentional or otherwise) from miles away. It appears to be the case here.
This video served as a great opportunity for me to further understand our nature as fallen man. I benefit greatly from this ministry and thank everyone involved. God bless.
Who raises the children if both parents are working?
@ who’s asking?
If you have the time read or listen to Ploductivity! A lot of your questions are answered there!
@ I appreciate your productive response. The point I was making is that the men who are engaging in this online discussion are about my age and in a similar family layout. I cannot see how they could be doing their primary responsibilities well while engaging on twitter every few minutes and arguing in front of the whole internet. It seems contrary to what I’ve experienced as a family man who works full time and homeschools my 6 children.
With respect, I do not think Abigail was contravening Nabal - instead, she was trying to save him and his men from obliteration. I am not convinced that this passage is necessarily saying what Mr. Wilson says, it is saying. I do agree though that she had courage, fortitude and is a great example to other godly women.
So she contravene Nabal to save him.
I would think women who are concerned about their husband’s sin would go to the elders for the same reason, to save them from grievous error.
@@NorthernNessa This is my point albeit I did not make that as clear as it should have been. Abigale did not complain to her elders, or take her concerns to family and friends. Her husband was drunk and unable to make a rational decision, so like the Proverbs 31 woman that she was, she made a decision, that saved her husband and servants from certain destruction. However, in doing so, she remained submissive.
There's nothing submissive about doing the opposite of what your husband said and telling a warlord who thinks you're hot that your husband is a drunk idiot who should be ignored. It's definitely a shrewdly pragmatic maneuver to avoid death at the hands of said rouge warlord, but in no way submissive.
@@ArcherWarhound wrong. She wasn't obedient. But she was being submissive
Many years ago, on a completely different issue: "Doug Wilson is one of the most careful and bright, uh, reformed, post millennial, objectivist theologians around - and he’s got people around him that are dumb." - John Piper
Whatever else one can say about Piper, this insightful comment is proving to be evergreen.
Piper is an idiot. Only a fool would say being against abortion takes a backseat to being against Trump.
ruclips.net/user/shortsw2IRtwv_3Lw?si=HMmR4Drj0nAxCGMO
John Piper draw a false equivalency between killing 65 million preborn babies and Trump saying mean things on twitter. This should disqualify him in the mind of any rational Christian.
I would want my wife to do what she can to help me out of a Nabal state by any Biblical means necessary. The state of my soul is more important than my ego. Sadly, I don't think a lot of people in Joel's camp feel the same way. This is one of the dangers of "once saved always saved". Once these fools are convinced of their salvation, it subconsciously leads them to do what is right in their own eyes.
This is a much clearer explanatoon, perhaps the conversation with family was too short, therefore not fully connected. I tend to more agree, but still want always to default to Scripture first, for wives to be quiet, win their husbands with their godly character...none of us want to sit under a wrong, but for God's glory, may His will be done.
Fantastic Doug
Thank you Doug! 👍
Countdown to Eric Conn to descend into “OK, Boomer” mode. 3,2,1…
“must be nice…” 🤣
The vibe has changed. It was a short celebration month. Now, winter.
This was the worst no quarter November in recent memory
@ Good point. But it was a month consumed by the Tobias scandal and Christians should not treat each other like atheists, no matter the stance on NETTR.
@@joshuamichael2463 "Oh no, he's correcting me!"
I love how he can be so self-righteous when he knows very well that the pushback is coming because of the bizarre context in which this advice was given. This wasn't in the context of what a woman is do to when she is in an abusive situation. It was in some vague "purely hypothetical, asking for a friend" with some nebulous, (yet oddly specific), situation--"when the husband has gone too far right..." An odd snippet about "moving" and assertion that the daughter knows "more than one lady" in said vague situation. (Blink twice if your husband didn't sign the declaration.) What made it weirder still was that earlier in this awkward conversation was the assertion that it isn't culturally acceptable to ask another woman in Moscow "How are you doing really?" because the Wilsons can read hearts like God can and therefore know a woman would only ask a friend such a question if she was attempting to insert herself in the other woman's marriage and dig for gossip and denigrate the husband. Strange how this daughter should then know any private family problems and...suddenly it's okay to insert oneself and tell her to go to the elders...
So... now a wife is to police her husband's politics and if he wants to move to....TN? UT? TX? She must appeal to the elders and pray to God they don't bungle things so badly her family becomes Twitter fodder. Should someone also remind the poor woman to check if her elders are in the habit of recording such struggle sessions? Let's ask White and Durbin about that one.
sir, this is a Wendy's
Twitter fodder?! What do you mean??
Aallen is a feminist atheist troll, ignore them
Oh Lordy... the irony!
@@hbug13_62 ignore the F-ist aallenn
Never heard of Abigail until today and I consider myself quite the Bible reader. Rest assured, I will be doing a deep dive into this story and all of its implications. Thanks Doug!
1 Samuel 25. Named our daughter after her 🥰
He loves this obscure story and trying to extrapolate from it
@@ericjames7819
Eric James: "obscure story and trying to extrapolate from it"
God's Word: All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)
@@TheNooch24 ok. All Scripture is profitable for teaching. Jesus tells the parable of 10 virgins waiting for their bridegroom. Then that means he approves of polygamy.
@@ericjames7819 No. Does that mean we chalk up the parable of the ten virgins to "obscure story" and not "extrapolate from it"?
The fact you think that's a coherent response just shows you have no understanding of hermeneutics.
Just because you might not know how to properly apply 2 Timothy 3:16 to all of Scripture doesn't mean other people cannot.
Helpful clarification Pastor Wilson!
No one claimed universal submission. They questioned your wisdom in implying women should resist their husbands if they are too right wing.
You think gross sin cannot occur in the direction of the right? Grow up
@@DerickTherving Either way the solution is the wife talking to the husband first....
Your patience with the segment of listeners who appear to perch in the background just waiting to take you out of context is admirable to say the least. Every time you take the time to explain, we all learn more. So weather or not you convince your critics, we are grateful for all this teaching. May God bless you!
❤
LMAO No quarter November always bleeds over into the following weeks
Great explanation. Sadly, all this was crystal clear from the beginning and went without saying.
It seems like people purposefully misinterpreted Doug to be contentious.
The social-media-immersed world is following the mainstream media in sensationalizing everything for the sake of generating engagement.
I was disappointed with Brian Sauvé, particularly for his misrepresentation of what was pretty clear.
His essential-oil rhetoric made him seem either dense or dishonest and contentious. Sadly, I suspect the latter.
Except it literally wasn’t clear when you take the timing and whole situation (and podcast itself) into context. What has Doug and Moscow been aggressively targeting the past month? Who has the majority of their comments been aimed at?
What Doug really meant was obvious from the beginning.
@@ReformedSooner24 that nazism is evil?
This is very confusing - lots of conflation. In reality, nearly all middle aged men / husbands today - are suffering heavily (statistically) at the hands of his boss babe wife - and the churches always side with wife. The scenario you talk about is very small minority. Not a good case study. I felt this did more damage than good.
💯
Appreciated this greatly brother
Excellent!
Auron is right, but as the RRM guys just said, it’s gotta be in-person, real relationship. I cannot in a million years think what Conn meant is what Wilson is saying here. This was a good pastoral rebuke if so. But it isn’t. GET IN PERSON!
What are they disagreeing about again?
Ha ha, jolly good, keep going!
Next Episode -> Love Languages and Nabal Husbands
Doug just doesnt miss!
Doug and his ministry is trustworthy. They don't kowtow to fans or foes. This is not a challenging concept.
The more Doug speaks and writes on: marital issues like (sole) responsibility placed on the man for both his and his wife’s sins, the limits of wifely submission, exceptions to the rule for everything thereby invalidating the rule (sort of sometimes), and his emphasis on admonishing boneheaded husbands while downplaying contentious wives, the more the waters get muddy. Clarity is lacking, but the words keep coming. Yes, I have been reading DW since Credenda Agenda was in print, I have thought he either has a blind spot in these issues or has failed to effectively communicate his nuisance or maybe I am that boneheaded husband.
Doug and James are not reading the room. And they are losing generations of men, young and not so young. Plenty of tickets for the Boneheaded Express, sadly.
@@lkae4 Christianity aint no populaity contest.
Clarity is not lacking. Downplaying contentious wives?? You can't be serious.
If there is a question of clarity, men like Wilson and White get the benefit of the doubt all day long. Their faithful lives and ministries have earned them that.
Wise older men see issues coming and they are sounding the alarm. Ignore these warnings at your peril.
@@CovenantPresbyterianCochrane So Doug is a prophet now? What happens if he's wrong? Did you listen to Tobias's last podcast? I listened to the first 15 minutes and found it to be unhinged. What do you think of the first 15 minutes? Please let us know.
@lkae4 No one said anything about Doug being a prophet. Wisdom comes from study and experience, both of which Wilson and White have in abundance. Both understand first principles, and can see how certain issues, when followed to their logical conclusions, will inevitably lead to problems.
Wilson and White have been at the forefront for years telling us that clown world was coming, and why. Not because they are prophets, but because they understand simple cause and effect.
Well stated.
Well said. Why this simple concept is so hard for some people to wrap their heads around is mind-blowing.
Because they're largely not regenerate Christians
💔 humility and honor is sorely lacking. Some in the Reformed camp are looking very worldly these days and don't see it. Too puffed up by knowledge, quick to speak, slow to listen, and quick to become angry (triggered). These controversies played out before the world just to have a one up on another is a blemish to what Christ died for. Has any stopped to consider Christ?
Pastor Doug has been once again and not always misunderstood and it shows in how petty the responses are. Church, judgment starts with us. The Lord loves His own but He will not be mocked. He will bring the refiner's fire. Things like this should cause us to all bow down in shame leading to an Ezra style of repentance.
I foresee a near term future where churches will be full of people, both man and woman, in their 30s that never married and the general population decreasing because of lack of child birth.
Just told my son, which is having problems with his girlfriend of years, that counseling is as good as ones want to hear and OBEY.
Know what the Bible says is very good but of null effect in practical life if someone doesn't want to obey it...
Doug definition of limited authority and when disobey is what the Bible teaches but that teaching have no effect if someone doesn't want to obey and keep trying to find justifications for that ...
Man should lead in Obedience to Gods Command (Joshua had no where to go but lead the battles) and woman should submit in obedience to Gods command, the common here is God command.
He also gave the ultimate examples of leading (Dying at the Cross) and submitting (pouring out bloody sweat) so we are without excuse....
As an outsider looking in at the ongoing (and apparently growing) divisions in the various Reformed groups, the only thing I can say with 100% certainty is that reformed men spend more time online than a 13 year old girl.
You've split your pants here dude. Best thing you can do is admit that you lost your way and take a hiatus.
Curious about this: Dad had my Mom get the shot. She didn't want it but did it out of submission to him.
They have no idea we were upset about it (for several reasons), but it might be helpful to hear various perspectives from people who read the Bible and try to obey God.
Thats a tough one. As a 'person', made in His image, regardless whether a wife/husband do we not have bodily autonomy over what we put into our bodies? If she went against her conscience, thats a problem for her (and for him) I think.
Romans 14 speaks to this. Quote : Dr. R.C. Sproul writes in his commentary Romans: "If we believe something is a sin, even if it is not, yet we participate in it, then we have committed a sin because we have done something we believe to be wrong, whether or not it actually is wrong. The sin is not [inherent to the act] . . . the sin is doing something that we think is evil."
Amazing that people even think this is debatable.
@@jncfrost i wasn't allowed to answer by yt
Why are we infighting?
He kicked the hornets nest and now the racists are looking for any reason to pick a fight with him.
@@davidthepolitepaladin1195stop your provocation
Did you even watch this? Did you bother to read that vile Xitter post from that Eric Conn person?
I would say it isn't really infighting. You can't really be postmil and be a white supremacist.
Because of name calling and calling what isn’t sin sin. Like what the first commenter here did.
Question, i get the feeling that David and Abigail were flirting and locking eyes a bit to long. Otherwise, why marry her so quickly after her husband's death?
BOOM!
Poor reverend Doug Willison. Out here every day making culture war on really bad and sinful forces in the world, and them forced to circle the wagons to remind his own friends that we do infact love Godly women and support Christ-honoring marriage. That "longhouse" is the bone of your bone, and the flesh of your flesh. Cleave to it!
Uncle Doug we know this already. Please tell us what should a man do if his wife is unsubmissive?
a) rebuke her firmly
b) keep calm and trust God
c) call the pastor
d) put his arms around her and tell her everything is okay
'e) Remind himself he is accountable to the Lord for such things.'
She isn't of the elect
43 years of marriage and one thing has always worked for me; tell her I am going to complain to God. Then I bitterly complain to God if she doesn't stop. I then walk away and give the silence treatment as recommended by Scripture (better to live on the roof than with a contentious woman)Then "things happen ".
I don't do anything but react with a grin as her God tips over her house of cards and she apologizes. Sometimes of course it is me who's corrected by our Boss.
If God is part of your marriage, involve Him.
Have you considered checking his blog website to see what he's had to say on the matter?
@ please tell me the title of that blog post
The same thing that disqualifies from juries should also disqualify from voting.
Uh no. They'll kick me off a jury for asserting theonomic ideas
❤
Now that our agenda has won in the political arena we are busy snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in nearly all areas.
My agenda has certainly not won
Doug um……are you reading a script/teleprompter?
Sigh. It's the post from Blog & Mablog. (Where you can also find all the links.) I don't know why they never put the link in the description.
He wrote these for his blog, and then he reads the posts and posts them online.
@@Yesica1993no sighs needed
@@michaellautermilch9185 I don't know why they don't just post the link in the description, so people wouldn't have the same confusion every single time.
The slavery book, the “C*nt” reference, the Johnny Cash middle finger - you’ve inspired a generation of young men who are unafraid of shocking their elders in any establishment. If you want to reach them, you need to stop using establishment tactics.
Uncle Doug sure is worried these days about his tribe leaving for the EO and the RCC. I guess Chesterton’s wife should not have submitted when her husband became Catholic.
None of us are getting wives anymore... WHERE have all the GOOD women gone?
I only have one virgin daughter left. Other than my 3 daughters, 2 married, I do not personally know ANY Christian woman worth marriage. I have occasionally seen non Christians young women more wife material than today's Christian young women. Of course that's just my tiny area of Miami.
We are out here. But,then again,I'm an Abigail.
They've gone with the men.
Pray that the Lord would provide one for you. Afterall, as Proverbs teaches, "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favour from the Lord"
Mine was 100 feet from me for several hours a week. After a few years, we finally crossed paths!
Doug, she should be submissive even if she is being disobedient.
Do you mean "he" is being disobedient? 1 Peter 3:1-2
@ nope i mean she. Makes sense in context of what doug was saying. If she is going to disobey him, she can't do so rebelliously but must maintain a posture of submission
@@cosmictreason2242 - Well then that is kind of an oxymoron since submission means obedience. I think you mean to say that she needs to be respectful, even if she is going to be disobedient.
@@j.p.5716 respect also implies obedience. This isn't the distinction you think it is. I am not wrong
@@cosmictreason2242 - I am struggling with understanding the point you are trying to make. Do you believe that a wives submission (obedience) to her husband is secondary to her obedience to God?
Do you believe that if her husband tells her to do something sinful (something God has told her not to do) that she is supposed to do it?
Noticing equals child abuse? This keeps getting more and more outlandish. How far will Doug go to save face before simply apologizing.
Did it occur to you at any point while writing your comment or after writing it that Doug Wilson was arguing for the principle - that there are some conditions when a wife should not go along with her husband's lead - and not "noticing" specifically? Did you miss the part when he drew the comical (I hope) picture of a man naming a bunch of kittens after a bunch of Jews and then stomping on them as an example of the kind "noticing" he takes issue with?
@elijahrittenhouse3943 I know what an analogy is. But I also know what a smear job is. This was the latter.
@@elijahrittenhouse3943 - I understand principal but him saying that we need more Abigail's is also saying that we need more Nabal's. In our current society, a Christina woman married to an actual Nabal is going to be very, very rare. Why argue for the .001% situation when he could spend more time teaching wives they need to be submissive to their husbands and properly teaching 1 Peter 3:1-6, which will benefit hundreds of thousands of more people than this Abigail nonsense, which just gives women more excuses to go against their husbands?
Well articulated, Doug! Amen!
Doug - Canon Press - Moscow-> stop your defiant pride over this - and repent
There sure has been a lot of brother wars as of late.
Boost
this idol isn't doing you any favors doug.
Some men are artists with paint, some with words.
Great video!
Ugly how you treat the Kevin DY kind better than Conn, who is right next to you. If you really thought he’s on the same page why all the rhetorical questions? You obviously are straw manning him.
You also never addressed the most obvious objections about seed oils and questioning the narrative being an apparently serious concern to take to elders. Ridiculous.
Also, there are many of us who have been reading your stuff and with you longer than 18 months who have our heads cocked at this recent stuff. A lot of us. You are not so stable on your positions as you give yourself credit for.
What you're saying should not be controversial. People's offense to it shows how disorderly and dysfunctional we have become.
This kind of misappropriation of scripture has plagued the church since it's beginnings, it has produced cultish offshoots and generally been a burr under the saddle from clergy to pew. Thanks Doug for the clarification and Abigail for your pithy participation...David had a lot of faults but recognizing a woman with pith wasn't one of them
In Alcoholics Anonymous, a new member will stand up and ask, "What is the first thing you should do when you have hit rock bottom." Inevitably, from the back, an old timer will reply, "Stop digging."
Doug: "Stop digging."
I'd loathe to become the triple A museum.
To be honest and consistent, you need to call your daughter to repentance for saying that she must obey her leftist husband and get the jab. THATS WHY WE ARE DEBATING. You cannot speak out if both sides of your mouth and expect anything other than the treatment you are receiving now
Sarah obeyed her husband Abraham even when he told her to sin and God miraculously protected her. Are we to not learn anything from that OT story?
@@j.p.5716 how about that description isn't prescription?
@@cosmictreason2242 - And yet Sarah is held up at the prototype for all NT wives to follow in 1 Peter 3:6
As another comment points out; nowhere did Abigail contradict nor rebel against Nabal. He never forbade her to aid David and a wife had a rightful allotment. She merely went around Nabal. That said, there's obviously times a woman must flatly refuse. So wrong use of Scripture but correct point made.
This is a common pattern with Doug. He gets a moral point dead center right. Then misses Scripture that supports it such "we must obey God rather than men" while misreading other passages.
This is of course necessary to maintain a Reformed theology and postmillenialism. Gospel correct, good moral compass with defective hermeneutics.
You’re arguing technicalities. Submission isn’t just doing what you’re told, it’s also doing what you aren’t told yet understand.
@@Mr_Gabbles We are all saved by a technicality. What else is substitutionary sacrifice and then imputation but a legal technicality? The only reason Justice and Mercy can kiss in Christ is because of several legal loopholes. Doug Wilson is not a very clear thinker from what I have heard over some time now. Nonetheless he is a godly man who gets not just the crucial points correct but many of the smaller ones also. Now back to the woman who was not comanded to obey Adam until the curse. Adam also did not own her until he named her because that's how it goes. Call it the correct meaning of "name it and claim it" which the prosperity creeps turn into a doctrine of demons.
That technicality includes the fact that the woman did not TECHNICALLY sin in the garden. That is explicitly stated in 1 tim 2:11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first [h]created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was [ thoroughly deceived, apatao ] deceived and [Literally: has come, has become ] became a wrongdoer. 15 But [k]women will be [l]preserved through [m]childbirth-if they continue in faith, love, and sanctity, with moderation. Nowhere is it written who told the woman, who was NOT yet Eve, not to eat of the fruit but we've a strong indication it was Adam as He ADDED to God's command "...neither shall you touch it." much as Pharisees with good intentions added to God's law. Much as Reformers keep adding whatever pieces of Moses suits them to the Law of Christ given in the newest Testament.
Note, ALL creation fell because of Adam, NOT Eve. All Adam's descendants were then subject to original sin but...not the woman. So we are saved by the technicality that the woman BECAME a sinner though ignorance. As Paul makes abundantly clear in Romans, for God ignorance IS an excuse from the law (Acts 17:30)
I have way more and none of it is from commentaries. So you know, it usually takes me a weak to go through a single verse and on Titus 1:12 I spent over 2 years.
He refused and she disobeyed. But she obeyed a higher authority
If you're a man who spends lots of time commenting on RUclips content, and you're wondering if YOU'RE the one being spoken about, it's likely you are. The community feels sorry for any woman who unwisely hitched herself to the wagon of a social-media-addicted Warrior Wannabe.
Your phone--your digital sword--is radicalizing you. And if you are leading a family into hatred of your Digital Opponents, then you're leading your family into sin. You're not some enlightened King with a calling from on High to argue with strangers on the internet. You're just embarrassing. 😊
What's that? Does someone think I sound like a Feminist?...
Meh, I won't hear it because I'm logging off for the week... Anyone may take a few shots and then role for damage. 😂 Just tell the rest of the table if I get wrecked!
Very well said!
Moscow man bad!! Moscow man baaaaad!!!!! 😂
You ARE catering to feminist. Abigail didn't disobey her husband. Nothing she did was disrespectful or dishonoring. She was trying to help her husband. What you told women to do was disobey and disrespect.
No. This is coming from someone who's not a fan of Doug Wilson.
Abigail went against her husband's wishes. Just like even though we are to submit to authority, we are permitted to go against their rules when it contradicts God's will.
@Wanton4442 Please re-read the text. I'm not saying this to be condescending, but it is very clear from the text that Abigail went against her husband's wishes, and she even went so far as to tell King David that her husband was a "worthless fellow" and a foolish man (1Sam 25:25). How could you possibly read that and yet fail to realise that Abigail contravened her husband?
It’s clear you haven’t read the text or listened to the message that he gave. This is called being an ideologue
He is advising wives who are being abused or treated like crap by her husband to seek pastoral help. He is advising blockheaded abusive men to get over themselves and stop treating their wives like property or worse slaves. He is trying to let the abused woman know that she doesn’t have to put up with that crap. The Bible says a woman should submit to her husband, but the man also has the responsibility to love her the way that Christ loved the church. Both verses found in the same portion of scripture but one is often more emphasized than the other. Ephesians 5:22-33. It was actually nice for me to hear a preacher that actually emphasizes the man’s role in the relationship for once, and not just the wives submit to your husband part.
@@damilolaa.3752stating a fact that Jewish people run porn companies is outside of God’s will?
If someone’s wife refuses to believe this I think they should take them before the elders. What say you?
Talk slower. No, I’m not dumb…but the rapid-fire pace comes off as a little desperate. If I can’t process what you are saying, the. Content is lost. I suspect your content is helpful, but I’m processing about 30%.
Have you checked your speed? I usually listen to RUclips videos at 1.25 but have to slow Pastor Doug down to 1😉
And 0.75, 0.5 and 0.25 is an option.
For all Protestants who disagree with Pastor Wilson on this point (the point of husband’s authority being a limited authority under God). I want you to realize you have just condemned yourself as rebels against God’s Church. If a wife does not have the authority to obey God and resist a disobedient husband, under what guise of authority did Luther or any other reformer hope to appeal to, when they resisted the authority of the Church?
Hebrews 13:17, “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls.”
I am a Presbyterian and not a RC or an EO member, but this is only possible because lawful authority at is best state is a derivative authority. Because it is derivative and not authority in and of itself, it is able to be resisted when said derivative authority acts as an authority unto itself. Understand that if you condemn a wife who resists the authority of her disobedient husband then the only logical progression is to condemn the reformation as well.
Where does that leave you?
Now go repent for acting like a self-absorbed, holier than thou, douche canoe. Here's that attention you wanted, jackass.
How was Abagail obeying God in that story?
Also 1 Peter 3:1-2 - Wives are to obey their husbands, even if they are being disobedient to the word, even if it causes the wives to suffer in the process. I don't think that anyone in this argument is saying that a husbands authority is absolute. It is where the wife draws the line that seems to be the issue.
@ in what way did Abigail disobey God in the story?
I would suggest that Abigail obeyed God in a similar way to how Rahab obeyed God when she betrayed her people.
Wives are to obey their husbands, even when they are disobedient. However, I believe the line is the same for all lesser magistrates.
As a sheriff has a duty to the people he has sworn to protect (even if his superiors commands he violates the citizens under his protection), so also a wife has a duty to the individuals in house even if her block head husband has forfeited all the individuals lives under his care with his belligerent, wicked attitude (for example)
This (like all truth) I think is less about right and wrong being spelled out explicitly and more about maturating into Christ and exercising wisdom to discern between good and evil.
We are told that we will judge angels. I’m sure that judging angels will require wisdom greater than that of Solomon.
@@FireSquad101 - I my experience, there are very few women who have the wisdom or maturity to make these choices properly.
For every 10,000 (so called) modern day Abigail's, I would estimate the at least 9,999 aren't in anywhere close to a situation that justifies going against their husband.
I think this entire notion of encouraging more Abagail's is unwise and reckless and likely to do way more damage than good.
Regarding judging angels, I doubt women will be included in that task.
@@j.p.5716 your probably right that most women right now are not wise enough to divine between right and wrong and act upon such wisdom. Your claim proves too much though. Most men ring now are probably not mature enough either to divine between right and wrong and act wisely upon such wisdom. I’ll up your ante even more. Children (who are the least likely to be mature) are commanded to,” obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.” You see, whether we live up to the call to mature into Christ and judge right from wrong and act accordingly, we are commanded to do so, all of us (man, woman, and child).
Whether it’s reckless or not to encourage woman to discern right from wrong, I’ll remind you that the truth is risky and the argumentation style you are using is exactly what the papist used against Luther when he proclaimed (the truth) of the gospel (the we are saved by unearned grace). They thought it was too risky to let the dumb masses hear the unfiltered truth and judge accordingly. I think they were wrong. God wants us (peasants, woman, or otherwise) to join Him in the divine council as full humans.
I direct your attention to 1st Peter 3:7. It states that wives a fellow heirs with us of the gracious gift of life. If woman are not participating in judging angels, it is only because (as in this life) they are the other side to the coin of humanity and are participating in some glorious reality to which we men are not equipped.
Notice the two realities 1st Corinthians in which it states that man is the head of woman as Christ is the head of Man; and that woman is the glory of man just as man is the glory of God.
Men and women are the two sides of Adam (Man). These two (man and woman) each bare what Man (Adam) was created to bear, which is God’s image. What is exactly the Imago Dei? It’s probably (at least in part) the status as rulers over creation. Man bears a greater portion of God’s authority and Woman a greater portion of God’s glory.
So, either glorified woman are participating in judging angles alongside glorified men (and we have nothing from scripture to say they aren’t) or they are participating in a weighty glorified reality to which even glorified man is ill equipped. Either way, God created woman is no slouch and capable of discerning right from wrong on our temporal world.
The wife's submission is not conditional but is "as to the Lord" , that is he is to be Christ like , loving her as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her - that is the husband is to practice self sacrifice. Submission is the easy bit, the hard bit is being Christ like - husbands need to concentrate on that and leave their wives to look after the submission.
Lol.
The funny thing is that both men and women are taught the same one-sided message. MEN MUST BE CHRIST LIKE!
"as unto the Lord" means obey like you would obey Jesus. Most women - and effeminate men - look for ways to exact the *least* amount of submission. Is that the way?
Husbands are to just IGNORE their wives sin? How is that biblical? Have you not read Ephesians 5:25-27? Husbands are to wash their wives in the water of the word to help them with their sanctification. Also have you ignored the other way the Christ loves His bride the church? Revelation 3:19.
And this my friends is what makes Doug so slippery.
With his words he says agreeable things like this where “the submission should never be absolute.”
However, with his pastoral actions, he develops Nabals left and right and if the wives get out of line by complaining about any ungodliness, they are first asked if they’ve been as sexually open to their husbands as they ought to be, then blamed for their husbands sin bc it’s usually them who tempted him into it.
This is because in Doug’s view, husbands have all the power and authority, but when things go wrong the women and the children bear all the responsibility.
Doug is a snake. If you don’t believe me, look up what happened with Steven Sitler or Jim Nance for starters. After that? Happy worm-holing.
😂😂😂
I hate being locked out of Xitter. I was able to view Eric Conn's vile, Jew hating comments, but not your reply. Oh, well.
I'd give anything to have a godly husband to whom I could submit.
Jew-hating?
Maybe you'd find a God-fearing husband if you didn't worship the people who killed Christ.
Just FO