UPDATE: As of Jan 8th 2024 I've received a letter from grizzly including a new ground wire, an explanation that some of these machines have been found to have faulty electrical grounding as well as instructions on how to fix it. I already sent mine back so I won't be performing the recommended repair. If anyone who had the same problems as me still has their machine and completes the fix. Please let us know if it fixes the problems many people have had. Also to everyone coping and seething that "YOU RAN THE MACHINE TOO HARD REEEEEEE!!" No I didn't. There was an electrical problem.
Thank you, I was looking at these for the variable speed. I built the 2 X 72 from your video and still use it today. I'm not a welder or a fabricator and the instructions were pretty easy to follow. I built mine with a hand grinder with a cut off wheel and a 110 little welder. I think the beginner looking to upgrade would be better served making that one.
This was a great tutorial, I just ordered this unit directly b4 I watched, and am brand new to the "Game" lol I have the Harbor Freight 1 x 30 and Im pretty sure everything you mentioned is exactly how Im starting off!! Anyway I think your Humbleness to how you started and how each piece you got "made and paid" for your next upgrade was a great lesson for a lot of us just starting plus (Imo your humbleness and probably a lot of your skill and craftsmanship) come from modest roots. Thank you for making that one of the most enjoyable as well as informative videos Ive watched
Thank you for the review. I purchased one and have only used it a bit, so I am quite nervous about it now. However, I am coming from a 1x30 and a 2x 48 with a 1/2 hp motor, so we will see. On the knob thing, the knobs are spring loaded, so you can pull out and reset the alignment. You don't need an Allen wrench or to cut it off.
I have one and have used the crap out of it the last month and it wasn’t anything like his. The platen does kinda suck but the machine itself is much better than the one he has.
Very useful review, thank you! I'd love to get a usable product somewhere in that price range. I just don't do enough to warrant shelling out $1k+ for a 2x72
You can get a vevor 2x72 2hp with vfd and a 110v to 220v transformer for about $850 . I know its close to a grand but you cant beat that deal. I just got one.
The knobs are srping loaded. You can pull it away, it will take it off the nut. Rotate the knob to the position you uneed and turn till it re engages the nut.
It drives me insane that nobody can figure this out. I made a review of this machine and made a point to point that out. It's so simple but every single person overlooks it somehow. It boggles the mind.
Brother I don't care if you're showing us how you learn to make an amazing sword, or reviewing some new kit....I'm all in. I dig your style and your straight forward humor and delivery. Fantastic content.
I order 1 of these, told me I'll see it about December 7. Looked it up now it February sometime. I was thinkin of canceling my order. Thank you for your honest review. I'll call in Monday and cance my order. Ive seen enough harbor junk equipment. I'm going for the good shop equipment
I know this is older, but I held off and bought one of these 2 weeks ago. Upgraded motor, ground wire already fixed, and a few other improvements, but one thing to note... Those type of tightening arms for the tool rest and platen, etc... They are spring loaded and designed to be pulled out, twisted to a new spot, let go back on the bolt, then tighten. Rinse, repeat until tight.. This was on the old and new version and does NOT require an Alan wrench or modification of any sort.
I got the same grinder specifically to have a smaller grinder for mobile sharpening. I was using the Dayton 2x42 belt/disc unit. I made some mods to the grizzly. 1. Took the old motor off, put on a flywheel for a belt to run the drive wheel. More powerful motor below the unit (under the table in my van) with a sheet metal guard for the belt. Replaced the bearings on all the wheels, and made a few plattens for the unit. Definitely a motor upgrade is needed, I find a big farm duty motor that can be run off of a VFD is choice.
Thank you for making this video! Saved me a decent chunk of money. My mastercraft 4x36 is an underpowered pain in my ass but its still kicking after heavy abuse. So far i have no idea what grinder tomget... just a good idea of which ones to avoid....
Look up the reviews on the vevor 2x82( 2x72 as well just cut 1.5inches off the tool arm to fit the 72inch belts ). Some pro's have tested it out and they had some good input on it.
Thanks for the Honest review. I DO think it's just a "Step-Up" for most hobby knife makers. (When I have to "Hog-Off" a lot of metal, I cut it with a saw - if it's normalized, that its - or use a plasma cutter, if I have a LOT to cut off...!). 5254 (Leaf Spring) steel is easy to cut, when it's Soft, and easy to find. D-2 or D-3 is one of the more difficult (excluding ASP-27, that is!) steels. Happy Knife Makin'
Appreciate your review! And your content! I’m sad to see you burnt the motor. I really hope it doesn’t happen to mine. 🤞 you make a good point as well that it appears to be a great step up from a one by 30 I think a lot of people are looking at it in that particular way!
Hey man. Just wanted to say thanks for the video. I ordered this machine yesterday with the expectation that ill need to make adjustments. So long as i don't get a dud i can work around and mcguiver my way through using the grizzley. Your talking points were helpful in this so thanks!!
@bryanb6931 quite well actually. The motor isnt the best in the world but it gets the job done. Mods will definitely improve on it alot. There is someone put there that makes after market work table and some other things for it. Kinda busy atm but if you reply to this tomorrow afternoon ill look for the guys info and give it to you.
@@Belows682 Sure, let me know when you have the time, I'm a knife maker with 18 years of experience. When I moved last time I sold almost everything but I want to get back into the craft. Even if it's just hobby level, I still have a lot of build requests from past customers.
@@bryanb6931 hey. that sounds awesome. i haven't made anything in a while now as life got in the way. the maker of those after market parts is Contender Machine works, he has a website. just email him about the items as he doesn't list them on the site. i found out about him via a blade forums post last year. solid parts for sure. best of luck!
Have you contacted Grizzly about it and what did they say? I was using mine today and the exact same thing happened. RPM’s dropped, threw an E3 error code, and the motor started smoking. Unplugged it and let it sit for an hour, and now it trips the breaker whenever I plug it in. I’m glad you made a video about this, I thought it was just me.
I sent mine back for a refund. They sent me a pre paid shipping label. As I mention in the video you should keep ahold of the box so in the event you have to send it back you don't have to pay to have it re packed
Mine did the same thing. I contacted Grizzly and they told me to send it back for a refund. I would really like to find a good motor and controller to replace the one on it.
@@flarpsniffer. You can get a 1 by 42 from Lee valley tool for 120 bucks. No moter. I got one and put a furnace blower moter on it. So I got under 200 bucks into it. Good simple machine. I'm going to build another one. Mount it off my bench vertically.
I saw a video a few months back of a woman building her own. Want to say the channel is called Lucia's Shop or something like that. It seemed like an odd thing to DIY, then I saw the prices for similar machines, and thought "I need to get into the belt grinder business". Anyway, her's was gorgeous, like functional art.
I'm glad that you posted this review. A lot of times we get sucked into believing that these inferior underpriced tools will be suffice to do what we need them to do. Evidently, after watching this review, that these are in fact junk and a waste of your money. What's the saying? You get what you pay for. My late father had a saying himself; a cheap man pays twice. Spend the extra money and get something that will suit your need and leave you satisfied with the result, not being pissed off and wasting your time. It's quite alright to diss a product if it will save a potential buyer from having to go through the motions and aggravations of what you just presented. So I commend you for this video and the time that you spent putting it together for the viewers. Cheers!!
I have a 2hp motor from a treadmill i could use to replace the one on the Grizzly. Might be worth looking into. The most powerful grinder I've used has been a 1/2hp 1x42, so this would definitely be an upgrade, but i dont need one at my level, yet.
Thanks for sharing this man, much appreciated. Im looking for a 2x48 grinder for 1 month now, and i thought this was somewhat my nr.1 pick. I cant seem to find a reliable 2x48 dor long term heavy daily use. If you got any tips for a better one in this price range, please do share.
I actually considered buying one of these a couple weeks ago when people said that you actually could extend the main platten arm enough to run 2x48” Belts. I have a small shop with a 2x48” from when I first started but it is only good for its tall platten and I have a really good Multi-Tool 2x36” that has a Stone Wheel on one side which is good for sharpening my tungsten for Tig Welding and the 2x36” is actually quite powerful but is severely limited in its design. When this came out I thought it would be a great replacement for my 2x48” but I immediately heard less than ideal comments about the electronics, the E Stop and VFD not being wired correctly and issues with the erratic speed so I decided to hold off on it and glad I have because this failure is not the first one I have heard about
Yeah a bunch of people are saying they have had the same problem. I've heard people say that you can't actually reliably run speed control on a single phase 110v motor but idk about all that technical jargon
@@peltiereric6497 yeah in my opinion it's a better option to save a little longer and just spring for the 2x72. If you can weld there's lots of DIY plans and kits available
Thanks for this video! I was really looking hard at this machine. Was also looking at the Bauer 4x36. My only issue with that is not having a small roller to get the fine curved details. Was also looking at the oscillating spindle sander for that. What 2x72 do you recommend for a beginner/hobbyist ?
I personally recommend building a revolution kit from housemade. If you don't want to build vevor has about the least expensive real 2x72 out there. They market it as a 2x82 for some reason but you can just cut the tool arm a little shorter to run 2x72 belts
@@OldHickoryForge that’s the one I just watched all night Him putting it together. It’s freaking awesome!!! I’ll be buying those plans! Thanks for your advice Abba videos.
Thanks for your honesty on this, as a beginner, I've yet to either build, or buy an official belt grinder. Thanks for the no brass racks review! Oh yeah , is the OH name in reference to the home of Andrew Jackson??
lol the harbor freight grinder is the first one i’ve ever bought and still use it today lol it’s been a little hog in a pinch but it’s definitely worth getting a 2x72 and being able to grind a blade in a quarter of the time
I bought one of the Grizzly 1x30 grinders a couple years ago. Not perfect, but it’s worked pretty good over the years. With that said, Origin Blade Makers out of Oregon have some really reasonable prices on 2x72 grinders. I’d recommend looking at them if someone wants either parts for, or a fully setup 2x72.
I purchased one of these and i've modded it to a 2 x 48 by making a 2 x 8 platen, so far ive cleaned up some handle profiles and i cleaned up a blank cut out from the bandsaw. Only issue i had so far was tripping the ground fault on my power strip because i had a heater on it. I hope your situation is an isolated one and ya just got a lemon.
You can't run a variable speed grinder on a ground fault breaker at all. My Ameribrade kept kicking my ground fault plug in my shop. At first I thought something might be wrong with it so I read the directions and it says not to use a ground fault plug. I probably should have read them before I started using it LOL
Question, did you adjust the platen before grinding? On mine the platen was pushed all the way forward of the belt instead of set up correctly so that is a massive amount of friction and heat building up especially at high speed.
That would probably explain why you couldn't track the belt correctly, because the platen is like 3/8" pushed out in front of the wheels, might have even cause the premature death of the motor.
@@OldHickoryForge Man that sucks, hope the motor don't die on me before I get my money's worth out it at least...But you were going at it pretty hardcore man, I have ground a few bevels on it and I'm running it at like 1200 rpm...lol, less than half the speed you were running.
As a long time woodworker, Grizzly, albeit a “budget friendly” company, makes surprisingly well-made power tools. I would have expected this grinder to perform better, but also expect Grizzly C/S will make good on this. Love your comment at 17:00 about the “yeahbuts”! 😂
Everyone that reviews these grinders mentions the problem with the knob that secures the tool rest. I have one and the knob is really not as much of a problem as you think. All the knobs can be pulled out and repositioned. Yes it's a bit fiddly the first time, but once you have it at the correct position, you only need to open it about a quarter turn or so in order to reposition the tool rest. I do see the tracking issue on mine as well. I only have the one belt and haven't used it a lot yet. Hopefully the motor on mine holds out.
I came here to say the same. I’ve seen 3 or 4 tests where they couldn’t figure out how to use the lever. It blows my mind that these guys couldn’t figure it out without cutting the lever. 🤦🏻♂️
Ahah, it looks like you can’t use a file jig on this grinder either, just like my grinder. Could you dump a file jig straight backwards on the left side of the platen? My grinder sucks too
I had the same issues with mine. Turned out my belt was slipping. I added some electrical tape to my tracking wheel and it has helped an lot but i have to adjust the tracking every time i change motor speed. You obviously have a shit motor though. That sucks. Hope mine holds out
I commented on another site. My concern was the single phase vs 3 phase. 🎉 smoke. Yup. It’s junk! But great concept. Keep moving forward with this one Grizzly. Improve!!! Thanks Old hickory forge for answering the remaining questions on this one. Great job
That's something I've heard as well. That you can't really run variable speed on single phase 110 motors for some reason. Do you know exactly what the problem is?
Specifically single phase induction motors can't be speed controlled with a VFD. A 3 phase motor can be because the phases will always be 120° apart. However, a single phase induction motor uses a start winding with a capacitor to simulate a second phase for starting the motor. If you change the frequency, it doesn't match up correctly. Now, there are plenty of devices that run off single phase with variable speed. But they're not induction motors. In this case, Grizzly's spec sheets says it's a "DC" motor (there are many kinds of DC motor, of course).
Great review...better than most others I've seen. I have a Grizzly 2x42 on order. Ordered November 2023 they said delivery Feb 2024. Well that has changed twice, now it's after March 25th. I am a hobby knife maker and have been using a little HF 1x30 for bevels and I also have a Wen 4x36 to do some stuff. I use my drill press with various size sanding drums for the curves. In the last 18 months I've made 52 knives and when I saw this Grizzly I figured it would be a huge improvement over my current tools. After seeing your review, I'm not so sure I want to actually get it. I don't want a unit that is unreliable or needs a lot of modifications. I don't have any welding capability so that limits what I can make. I'm hoping that Grizzly is doing something about that motor considering the long delivery time I've waited. I have to wonder if Grizzly may be making other improvements during this long lead time from China. It is also not good that the variable speed control is unstable (maybe it's the motor?) after 10 minutes of use. I also would really like to have big wheel capability for hollow grinds. There is a guy I found on a forum who makes and sells a small wheel attachment and a platen and better work table for this unit. That's encouraging but the big wheel ttachment I can't find yet. What do you think about all this? I'm undecided whether to get this grinder or not. I cannot justify spending a lot on some 2x72 and I don't see any other options other than this Grizzly. Is this Grizzly going to work well for my needs ? I'd really like your opinion. Thanks
Some people have gotten them and swear that they're a good grinder. This could mean that I and the many others who have had problems just got bad ones. It could also mean that the folks swearing they're good machines haven't used them much or have babied them. If you get a good one it could be a very big step up from a 1x30. And the longer lead times could very well mean they are addressing quality control issues. I'd say keep your order open and hope for the best. The return policy is pretty easy if it turns out to be no good. As far as a large wheel attachment that will be something you'll need to make yourself. Housemade US. Ameribrade, brodbeck ironworks and many more sell many sizes of contact wheel. But you will need to make your own tool arm
That is not a hogging grinder, its for finesse work for the pro or a great starter unit, note if you replace the the platen support and lenthen it you can use 2-48" belts which will be easier to get and run a little bit cooler.
Don’t cut the handles!!. Those are adjustable handle bolts. They are spring loaded and disengage from the bolt. You simply pull the handle and rotate it the opposite direction then let it go and tighten it. Same for loosening.
I purchased an Ameribrade 2x48 and I wish I wouldn't have purchased it. I don't know who thought it was a good idea to build it in a steel cage but I promise who designed it isn't a knife smith. I love the Ameribrade 2x72 but they sure missed it with this 2×48
Glass platens are easy to swap. my first several were a nightmare....then I remembered epoxy dosen't like heat. heat the back of the platten with a torch or heat gun and it'll slide right off. Glass groves way slower than hardened steel.
Great review. I ordered one and im hoping it will serve my needs. I just want it for my knife store so i dont have to take people's swords and machetes home to sharpen them. I cant imagine running it for more than 5 or 10 minutes at a time. 🙂👊 thanks again..
Grizzly solved the motor problems on the late models and other minor issues they do not mention. Also from today until Agust the 19th this grinders are on special sale at $270.oo plus $30 shipping. So for $300,00 the unit will be delivered to you in the U.S. Too bad I ordered one just 4 days ago. Did cost $335 with shipping and taxes.. Hope this info helps someone.
Great video man! I picked one up and also did a review video on this. I'm unfortunately having a problem with the motor heating up quite a bit rather quickly within ablut 30 mind. Called grizzly and there suppose to be sending me another motor. Judging by the way the motor is wound looks it may happen again. I really enjoy the sander just need a motor that won't heat up so fast. But yea I'm having the same issues as well. I might putt another motor on it. Or maybe just get a 2x72 one day
I actually saw your video. Yeah even people who are praising the sander are talking about motors getting hot which means they will eventually fail. Some people seem convinced it's awesome and swear they "can't bog it down" idk if I just got a bad one or if people just don't want to accept that it might just be a bad machine. Only time will tell
@@OldHickoryForge yea I welded some heat treated tool steel for the platen and fixed the tracking issue. We will see when I get this motor from grizzly but I don't think things will change by looking how it's wound. If i would have let it run earlier dling bevels too long it would have burned up the same way.BTW love your work learned alot from you and still do
@@BerserkerBlades out of curiosity what do you mean when you say "how the motor is wound"? I don't know much about electrical stuff and I know some people have mentioned that wiring speed control to a single phase 110v motor can cause problems. Is that what you mean?
@@OldHickoryForge from what I understand what grizzly was trying to do with a variable speed drive 110 single phase that will change AC to DC was rather difficult and being affordable. From what my electrician at my day job stated. With your typical AC motor it stays at a constant with no variable speed and is less ware on the motor therefore just stays at a constant. When adding the VFD it constantly up and down which means the wiring or wind of the motor would need to wound tighter and more abundantly. Keep in mind I am not an electrician im a welder so don't quote me on this. It makes sense though. I feel that even a fan on the end like most motors I see wouldn't have been a bad idea for starters. I got to sander running great though with my adjustments other than this motor.
Dave Custer. Similar design but he beefed up some of the components and added the forklift pick up points which make it way easier to move. Great machine and a great company to work with
As soon as I saw how small the motor was I knew it wouldn't hold up to actual grinding tasks. Feel sorry for everyone who jumped on this thing thinking it would at least pay for itself. A file jig would be faster at removing steel.
This is the second video I've seen where someone doesn't know how to use the adjustments levers. When you reach the end of your travel. Then you pull out it will "ratchet" free and let you get another turn. Very common on all kinds of power tools
I think people are intentionally trying to kill this machine. Ive made several knofes with mine so far and have had zero issues out of the machine. The motor gets warm. But not to the point you cant put your hand on it. I dont see where people see it as being under powered. You definitely got a bad motor. Mone doesnt bog down at all even when hogging of material for stock removal knofes.
@Tucker_Peenback even when clamped to the table I was using probably about ten percent of the pressure id use when grinding normally because of how fast it began to cut out. I sincerely do hope I got a bad motor. If it works for what you need it for that's great.
@@westcoastlifestyle5916 I assure you nobody is intentionally trying to kill the machine. If I wanted to do that I could have done it much faster. I hope yours holds up well. 💪🏻
Keep us in the loop with how yours holds up. If the motor is getting warm with use it means it may very well eventually fail no matter how gentle you are with it. I could be wrong and I hope I am.
My 2x42 Grizzly -T32459 - blue magic smoke from the motor at 3 months old. One call to tech support and 10 minutes later a new motor is on the way. Got it 4 days later. That's a 228 dollar replacement part for a 299 dollar piece of equipment. Yeah, I have skills and can replace it (and did, took 20 minutes) and Yeah, I'll buy it again.
1.5 months months later the power supply died, again, new on sent in 5 days . Kudo's for customer support. I got the new black box, installed it (I have 3m level (component replacement) training and certification. I can literally grab the belt and stop it. It has no power. The fix is apparently to kill the power. Next call to Grizzly is to return. It's 5 months old.
Replacing the drive wheel with a smaller 4" wheel will mitigate the motor power issue. Every machine built is a compromise of design elements & component selections normally to meet a price point. There is a way to break every knife ever made & a way to break every electric motor ever made.
Bro....thank you for this review. I was planning on buying one JUST for material removal knife making. I think I'll wait for Part 2. You saved me 4 hunskie! Btw, it was great seeing you post on TK's Triple T Thursday's video with the editing error. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I like how tight this community is. I commented on your post there, too. I hope you're doing well, and putting aside all other recent thoughts while doing dangerous work in the shop; he would want it that way bud. Take care brother.
What a let down. I have one of the old Grizzly 2x72s and it has ran strong for many years and I always thought Grizzly should make a affordable variable speed grinder but this is unacceptable.
Seems more suitable for lighter tasks. Maybe a four inch puuko but not a bowie from a big honkin’ horseshoe rasp. If it came with small wheel attachments, I would buy it and dedicate it to handles ,guards and sharpening. But it doesn’t, so I won’t. BTW Super nice knife.👍
I would think the biggest is it broke doing what it was suppose to do, or was it made for 4" knives............ And 110 power???????? In ME we have 120 volt power............
Actually working with a new retailer that's keeping me busy full time now. I have some hammers leftover from this summers blade show production run I'll be finishing out and putting up for sale on IG. But that'll be the last time they're available to the general public until blade show next year if things keep going well on my end.
These would probably be good if you to get into mobile sharpening service, but as far as taking away large amount of material, it's definitely not worth it.
Those screw handles are spring loaded, turn it, pull it out return to previous position and turn it again, no different than using a wrench. If you cut it short to make it go around you're losing torque.
Love having great information about the platinum and safety ( safety always great) I'm ashamed you ran that sander and not having glasses as you are a leader of kids and Smiths both young and older. Don't sound like a great product. Unfortunately, sometimes we pay for trying to save $$$$$. China doesn't seem to impress me. I do like the Braun brand angle grinder the first year I have mine, or rather, I brought 2 I'm often not happy with Harbor Freight for the most, so them grinder are my test to shop Harbor Freight more often. I'll be building my own 1x30, adding verbal speed from a washer motor so plenty of power so it should have speed and strength Thanks John
Funny, i bought one of their drill presses.... worst machine i have ever had. It was ver under powered, tolerances are sloppy and my capacitor fried as well. Its junk man
UPDATE:
As of Jan 8th 2024 I've received a letter from grizzly including a new ground wire, an explanation that some of these machines have been found to have faulty electrical grounding as well as instructions on how to fix it. I already sent mine back so I won't be performing the recommended repair. If anyone who had the same problems as me still has their machine and completes the fix. Please let us know if it fixes the problems many people have had.
Also to everyone coping and seething that "YOU RAN THE MACHINE TOO HARD REEEEEEE!!"
No I didn't. There was an electrical problem.
sorry for the misupload earlier. mix up with the file names. thanks to everyone who caught it and let me know. now let us never speak of it again
lol
😂😂😂
No worries
😂 you taking notes from Tyrell
Please do the 2x42 bucktool grinder next. I just got it and I love it I wanna gear you say good things because this grizzly was underwhelming
I started with a half dozen files and a bench grinder this thing would have seemed like a god send
Thank you, I was looking at these for the variable speed. I built the 2 X 72 from your video and still use it today. I'm not a welder or a fabricator and the instructions were pretty easy to follow. I built mine with a hand grinder with a cut off wheel and a 110 little welder. I think the beginner looking to upgrade would be better served making that one.
I like you and your no BS reviews, thank you!
Form factor looks really good for the value. Hoping to see a version 2 with a different motor and other fixes.
Thanks, John. I picked up this grinder before you posted your review and am running into some of the same issues you were.
This was a great tutorial, I just ordered this unit directly b4 I watched, and am brand new to the "Game" lol I have the Harbor Freight 1 x 30 and Im pretty sure everything you mentioned is exactly how Im starting off!! Anyway I think your Humbleness to how you started and how each piece you got "made and paid" for your next upgrade was a great lesson for a lot of us just starting plus (Imo your humbleness and probably a lot of your skill and craftsmanship) come from modest roots. Thank you for making that one of the most enjoyable as well as informative videos Ive watched
After watching how this thing performed on your Instagram story I'm glad I didn't buy one of these hahaha. Thanks for looking out, man.
Thank you for the review. I purchased one and have only used it a bit, so I am quite nervous about it now. However, I am coming from a 1x30 and a 2x 48 with a 1/2 hp motor, so we will see. On the knob thing, the knobs are spring loaded, so you can pull out and reset the alignment. You don't need an Allen wrench or to cut it off.
I have one and have used the crap out of it the last month and it wasn’t anything like his. The platen does kinda suck but the machine itself is much better than the one he has.
@@Bottlemaker1he’s really pushing it though. You could see that. If you don’t push so hard, it’s fine.
@@melgross I don’t push it to hard and actually replaced the platen yesterday with 52100
@@Bottlemaker1 yeah, those carbon platen anti friction covers work ok on wood, but not on point source pressure from metal.
Very useful review, thank you! I'd love to get a usable product somewhere in that price range. I just don't do enough to warrant shelling out $1k+ for a 2x72
wish I could find one for $1000
You can get a vevor 2x72 2hp with vfd and a 110v to 220v transformer for about $850 . I know its close to a grand but you cant beat that deal. I just got one.
The knobs are srping loaded. You can pull it away, it will take it off the nut. Rotate the knob to the position you uneed and turn till it re engages the nut.
Never heard of this before. Thanks for the tip!
It drives me insane that nobody can figure this out. I made a review of this machine and made a point to point that out. It's so simple but every single person overlooks it somehow. It boggles the mind.
@westcoastlifestyle5916 it was your review that saved me, just before I cut the handle off.
Brother I don't care if you're showing us how you learn to make an amazing sword, or reviewing some new kit....I'm all in. I dig your style and your straight forward humor and delivery. Fantastic content.
I order 1 of these, told me I'll see it about December 7. Looked it up now it February sometime. I was thinkin of canceling my order. Thank you for your honest review. I'll call in Monday and cance my order. Ive seen enough harbor junk equipment. I'm going for the good shop equipment
Thanks for this great review. You saved me $400.00 that I can now put towards a better product! Thanks again!!!
Good video good info do you have a recommendation for a grinder for a beginner
those lever knobs are adjustable. pull out on them and you can rotate the lever without turning the screw. It's a spring loaded spline connection.
I know this is older, but I held off and bought one of these 2 weeks ago. Upgraded motor, ground wire already fixed, and a few other improvements, but one thing to note... Those type of tightening arms for the tool rest and platen, etc... They are spring loaded and designed to be pulled out, twisted to a new spot, let go back on the bolt, then tighten. Rinse, repeat until tight.. This was on the old and new version and does NOT require an Alan wrench or modification of any sort.
I got the same grinder specifically to have a smaller grinder for mobile sharpening. I was using the Dayton 2x42 belt/disc unit. I made some mods to the grizzly. 1. Took the old motor off, put on a flywheel for a belt to run the drive wheel. More powerful motor below the unit (under the table in my van) with a sheet metal guard for the belt. Replaced the bearings on all the wheels, and made a few plattens for the unit. Definitely a motor upgrade is needed, I find a big farm duty motor that can be run off of a VFD is choice.
Since this Grizzly grinder didn't work, which other (relatively affordable) grinder would you recommend?
Thank you for making this video! Saved me a decent chunk of money. My mastercraft 4x36 is an underpowered pain in my ass but its still kicking after heavy abuse. So far i have no idea what grinder tomget... just a good idea of which ones to avoid....
Look up the reviews on the vevor 2x82( 2x72 as well just cut 1.5inches off the tool arm to fit the 72inch belts ). Some pro's have tested it out and they had some good input on it.
Thanks for the Honest review. I DO think it's just a "Step-Up" for most hobby knife makers. (When I have to "Hog-Off" a lot of metal, I cut it with a saw - if it's normalized, that its - or use a plasma cutter, if I have a LOT to cut off...!). 5254 (Leaf Spring) steel is easy to cut, when it's Soft, and easy to find. D-2 or D-3 is one of the more difficult (excluding ASP-27, that is!) steels.
Happy Knife Makin'
Appreciate your review! And your content! I’m sad to see you burnt the motor. I really hope it doesn’t happen to mine. 🤞 you make a good point as well that it appears to be a great step up from a one by 30 I think a lot of people are looking at it in that particular way!
Thanks for doing this review, I was going to take a look at this grinder, I think I'll check out your 2"x72" build instead.
Hey man.
Just wanted to say thanks for the video. I ordered this machine yesterday with the expectation that ill need to make adjustments. So long as i don't get a dud i can work around and mcguiver my way through using the grizzley.
Your talking points were helpful in this so thanks!!
So how did it work out for you, thinking about pulling the trigger on one. I totally expect to make a lot of modifications.
@bryanb6931 quite well actually. The motor isnt the best in the world but it gets the job done. Mods will definitely improve on it alot. There is someone put there that makes after market work table and some other things for it. Kinda busy atm but if you reply to this tomorrow afternoon ill look for the guys info and give it to you.
@@Belows682 Sure, let me know when you have the time, I'm a knife maker with 18 years of experience. When I moved last time I sold almost everything but I want to get back into the craft. Even if it's just hobby level, I still have a lot of build requests from past customers.
@@bryanb6931 hey. that sounds awesome. i haven't made anything in a while now as life got in the way. the maker of those after market parts is Contender Machine works, he has a website. just email him about the items as he doesn't list them on the site. i found out about him via a blade forums post last year. solid parts for sure.
best of luck!
What would you recommend for a belt grinder for knife making? Can I use the same grinder for the blade and for the grip?
Thank you a good and honest review. Have a great day.
You can pull out the knobs to rotate them to tighten them down...
Have you contacted Grizzly about it and what did they say? I was using mine today and the exact same thing happened. RPM’s dropped, threw an E3 error code, and the motor started smoking. Unplugged it and let it sit for an hour, and now it trips the breaker whenever I plug it in. I’m glad you made a video about this, I thought it was just me.
I sent mine back for a refund. They sent me a pre paid shipping label. As I mention in the video you should keep ahold of the box so in the event you have to send it back you don't have to pay to have it re packed
Mine did the same thing. I contacted Grizzly and they told me to send it back for a refund. I would really like to find a good motor and controller to replace the one on it.
@@flarpsniffer. You can get a 1 by 42 from Lee valley tool for 120 bucks. No moter. I got one and put a furnace blower moter on it. So I got under 200 bucks into it. Good simple machine. I'm going to build another one. Mount it off my bench vertically.
Could it maybe be a dedicated wood sander? Keep it for light shop work making handles ?
I saw a video a few months back of a woman building her own. Want to say the channel is called Lucia's Shop or something like that. It seemed like an odd thing to DIY, then I saw the prices for similar machines, and thought "I need to get into the belt grinder business". Anyway, her's was gorgeous, like functional art.
thanks for the warning. i have a grizzly table saw which has stood the test of time, but some of their stuff just doesn't cut the mustard.
I'm glad that you posted this review. A lot of times we get sucked into believing that these inferior underpriced tools will be suffice to do what we need them to do. Evidently, after watching this review, that these are in fact junk and a waste of your money. What's the saying? You get what you pay for. My late father had a saying himself; a cheap man pays twice. Spend the extra money and get something that will suit your need and leave you satisfied with the result, not being pissed off and wasting your time.
It's quite alright to diss a product if it will save a potential buyer from having to go through the motions and aggravations of what you just presented. So I commend you for this video and the time that you spent putting it together for the viewers. Cheers!!
I have a 2hp motor from a treadmill i could use to replace the one on the Grizzly. Might be worth looking into. The most powerful grinder I've used has been a 1/2hp 1x42, so this would definitely be an upgrade, but i dont need one at my level, yet.
Did you try the motor ??? If so how did the variable speed work out for you ???
Thanks for sharing this man, much appreciated.
Im looking for a 2x48 grinder for 1 month now, and i thought this was somewhat my nr.1 pick. I cant seem to find a reliable 2x48 dor long term heavy daily use.
If you got any tips for a better one in this price range, please do share.
1200 to your door. 2 by 48 Ameribrade trident.
I actually considered buying one of these a couple weeks ago when people said that you actually could extend the main platten arm enough to run 2x48” Belts. I have a small shop with a 2x48” from when I first started but it is only good for its tall platten and I have a really good Multi-Tool 2x36” that has a Stone Wheel on one side which is good for sharpening my tungsten for Tig Welding and the 2x36” is actually quite powerful but is severely limited in its design. When this came out I thought it would be a great replacement for my 2x48” but I immediately heard less than ideal comments about the electronics, the E Stop and VFD not being wired correctly and issues with the erratic speed so I decided to hold off on it and glad I have because this failure is not the first one I have heard about
Yeah a bunch of people are saying they have had the same problem. I've heard people say that you can't actually reliably run speed control on a single phase 110v motor but idk about all that technical jargon
@@OldHickoryForge yeah I had high hopes when I first saw it but glad I decided to hold off
@@peltiereric6497 yeah in my opinion it's a better option to save a little longer and just spring for the 2x72. If you can weld there's lots of DIY plans and kits available
Thanks for this video! I was really looking hard at this machine.
Was also looking at the Bauer 4x36. My only issue with that is not having a small roller to get the fine curved details. Was also looking at the oscillating spindle sander for that.
What 2x72 do you recommend for a beginner/hobbyist ?
I personally recommend building a revolution kit from housemade. If you don't want to build vevor has about the least expensive real 2x72 out there. They market it as a 2x82 for some reason but you can just cut the tool arm a little shorter to run 2x72 belts
@@OldHickoryForge that’s the one I just watched all night Him putting it together. It’s freaking awesome!!!
I’ll be buying those plans!
Thanks for your advice Abba videos.
Thanks for your honesty on this, as a beginner, I've yet to either build, or buy an official belt grinder. Thanks for the no brass racks review! Oh yeah , is the OH name in reference to the home of Andrew Jackson??
Actually no. Whenever I first started out I lived in Hickory NC. And everything there was "old hickory" something or other and the name just stuck
lol the harbor freight grinder is the first one i’ve ever bought and still use it today lol it’s been a little hog in a pinch but it’s definitely worth getting a 2x72 and being able to grind a blade in a quarter of the time
They just came out with a 1hp model. This one is discontinued. Can you get the new one and review it?
Well that was disapointing... Though the knife is wicked
I followed your 2x72 guide and couldn't be happier with it!
I bought one of the Grizzly 1x30 grinders a couple years ago. Not perfect, but it’s worked pretty good over the years. With that said, Origin Blade Makers out of Oregon have some really reasonable prices on 2x72 grinders. I’d recommend looking at them if someone wants either parts for, or a fully setup 2x72.
I purchased one of these and i've modded it to a 2 x 48 by making a 2 x 8 platen, so far ive cleaned up some handle profiles and i cleaned up a blank cut out from the bandsaw. Only issue i had so far was tripping the ground fault on my power strip because i had a heater on it. I hope your situation is an isolated one and ya just got a lemon.
You can't run a variable speed grinder on a ground fault breaker at all. My Ameribrade kept kicking my ground fault plug in my shop. At first I thought something might be wrong with it so I read the directions and it says not to use a ground fault plug. I probably should have read them before I started using it LOL
@@richardbranton190 yeah learned that with my 2 x 72 a couple years ago.. didn't think anything of it with this little guy. 😂
Awesome knife as alway! Too bad the grinder didn't hold up to the task. Very informative video as always, keep up the awesome work!
Question, did you adjust the platen before grinding? On mine the platen was pushed all the way forward of the belt instead of set up correctly so that is a massive amount of friction and heat building up especially at high speed.
That would probably explain why you couldn't track the belt correctly, because the platen is like 3/8" pushed out in front of the wheels, might have even cause the premature death of the motor.
I did. I made it flush with the wheels.
@@OldHickoryForge Man that sucks, hope the motor don't die on me before I get my money's worth out it at least...But you were going at it pretty hardcore man, I have ground a few bevels on it and I'm running it at like 1200 rpm...lol, less than half the speed you were running.
As a long time woodworker, Grizzly, albeit a “budget friendly” company, makes surprisingly well-made power tools. I would have expected this grinder to perform better, but also expect Grizzly C/S will make good on this. Love your comment at 17:00 about the “yeahbuts”! 😂
Everyone that reviews these grinders mentions the problem with the knob that secures the tool rest. I have one and the knob is really not as much of a problem as you think. All the knobs can be pulled out and repositioned. Yes it's a bit fiddly the first time, but once you have it at the correct position, you only need to open it about a quarter turn or so in order to reposition the tool rest.
I do see the tracking issue on mine as well.
I only have the one belt and haven't used it a lot yet. Hopefully the motor on mine holds out.
I came here to say the same. I’ve seen 3 or 4 tests where they couldn’t figure out how to use the lever. It blows my mind that these guys couldn’t figure it out without cutting the lever. 🤦🏻♂️
I built one from Jer Schmidt’s plans.. highly recommend it.. much cheaper than buying one, and premium tilting grinder
Thank you!
Usually the smoke from electric motors is the insulation on the windings, losing its magic……no return from that🤣😎
Thanks for the field test and review. Clearly it's better to save up for a 2/72.
Thank you for the review. Very helpful
This looks like the best option in this class ( price) but seems like it could use some improvements.
Thank you for the info.
Ahah, it looks like you can’t use a file jig on this grinder either, just like my grinder. Could you dump a file jig straight backwards on the left side of the platen? My grinder sucks too
I had the same issues with mine. Turned out my belt was slipping. I added some electrical tape to my tracking wheel and it has helped an lot but i have to adjust the tracking every time i change motor speed. You obviously have a shit motor though. That sucks. Hope mine holds out
I commented on another site. My concern was the single phase vs 3 phase. 🎉 smoke. Yup. It’s junk! But great concept. Keep moving forward with this one Grizzly. Improve!!!
Thanks Old hickory forge for answering the remaining questions on this one. Great job
That's something I've heard as well. That you can't really run variable speed on single phase 110 motors for some reason. Do you know exactly what the problem is?
@@OldHickoryForge
I’m not the best to explain it. Someone out there can explain much better.
I hope they improve the product. It has potential.
@@rescd3336 no worries bud. Thanks for watching!
Specifically single phase induction motors can't be speed controlled with a VFD. A 3 phase motor can be because the phases will always be 120° apart. However, a single phase induction motor uses a start winding with a capacitor to simulate a second phase for starting the motor. If you change the frequency, it doesn't match up correctly.
Now, there are plenty of devices that run off single phase with variable speed. But they're not induction motors. In this case, Grizzly's spec sheets says it's a "DC" motor (there are many kinds of DC motor, of course).
@@knickly thanks for the explanation!
Thank you for your review
Great review...better than most others I've seen. I have a Grizzly 2x42 on order. Ordered November 2023 they said delivery Feb 2024. Well that has changed twice, now it's after March 25th. I am a hobby knife maker and have been using a little HF 1x30 for bevels and I also have a Wen 4x36 to do some stuff. I use my drill press with various size sanding drums for the curves. In the last 18 months I've made 52 knives and when I saw this Grizzly I figured it would be a huge improvement over my current tools. After seeing your review, I'm not so sure I want to actually get it. I don't want a unit that is unreliable or needs a lot of modifications. I don't have any welding capability so that limits what I can make. I'm hoping that Grizzly is doing something about that motor considering the long delivery time I've waited. I have to wonder if Grizzly may be making other improvements during this long lead time from China. It is also not good that the variable speed control is unstable (maybe it's the motor?) after 10 minutes of use. I also would really like to have big wheel capability for hollow grinds. There is a guy I found on a forum who makes and sells a small wheel attachment and a platen and better work table for this unit. That's encouraging but the big wheel ttachment I can't find yet.
What do you think about all this? I'm undecided whether to get this grinder or not. I cannot justify spending a lot on some 2x72 and I don't see any other options other than this Grizzly. Is this Grizzly going to work well for my needs ? I'd really like your opinion. Thanks
Some people have gotten them and swear that they're a good grinder. This could mean that I and the many others who have had problems just got bad ones. It could also mean that the folks swearing they're good machines haven't used them much or have babied them. If you get a good one it could be a very big step up from a 1x30. And the longer lead times could very well mean they are addressing quality control issues. I'd say keep your order open and hope for the best. The return policy is pretty easy if it turns out to be no good. As far as a large wheel attachment that will be something you'll need to make yourself. Housemade US. Ameribrade, brodbeck ironworks and many more sell many sizes of contact wheel. But you will need to make your own tool arm
That is not a hogging grinder, its for finesse work for the pro or a great starter unit, note if you replace the the platen support and lenthen it you can use 2-48" belts which will be easier to get and run a little bit cooler.
Don’t cut the handles!!. Those are adjustable handle bolts. They are spring loaded and disengage from the bolt. You simply pull the handle and rotate it the opposite direction then let it go and tighten it. Same for loosening.
I purchased an Ameribrade 2x48 and I wish I wouldn't have purchased it. I don't know who thought it was a good idea to build it in a steel cage but I promise who designed it isn't a knife smith. I love the Ameribrade 2x72 but they sure missed it with this 2×48
Glass platens are easy to swap. my first several were a nightmare....then I remembered epoxy dosen't like heat. heat the back of the platten with a torch or heat gun and it'll slide right off. Glass groves way slower than hardened steel.
Great job, thank you
Great review. I ordered one and im hoping it will serve my needs. I just want it for my knife store so i dont have to take people's swords and machetes home to sharpen them. I cant imagine running it for more than 5 or 10 minutes at a time. 🙂👊 thanks again..
For a dedicated sharpening machine it should do find. I imagine you'll be running it at much lower speeds as well. Let us know how it holds up!
Grizzly solved the motor problems on the late models and other minor issues they do not mention. Also from today until Agust the 19th
this grinders are on special sale at $270.oo plus $30 shipping. So for $300,00 the unit will be delivered to you in the U.S.
Too bad I ordered one just 4 days ago. Did cost $335 with shipping and taxes.. Hope this info helps someone.
Great video man! I picked one up and also did a review video on this. I'm unfortunately having a problem with the motor heating up quite a bit rather quickly within ablut 30 mind. Called grizzly and there suppose to be sending me another motor. Judging by the way the motor is wound looks it may happen again. I really enjoy the sander just need a motor that won't heat up so fast. But yea I'm having the same issues as well. I might putt another motor on it. Or maybe just get a 2x72 one day
I actually saw your video. Yeah even people who are praising the sander are talking about motors getting hot which means they will eventually fail. Some people seem convinced it's awesome and swear they "can't bog it down" idk if I just got a bad one or if people just don't want to accept that it might just be a bad machine. Only time will tell
@@OldHickoryForge yea I welded some heat treated tool steel for the platen and fixed the tracking issue. We will see when I get this motor from grizzly but I don't think things will change by looking how it's wound. If i would have let it run earlier dling bevels too long it would have burned up the same way.BTW love your work learned alot from you and still do
@@BerserkerBlades out of curiosity what do you mean when you say "how the motor is wound"? I don't know much about electrical stuff and I know some people have mentioned that wiring speed control to a single phase 110v motor can cause problems. Is that what you mean?
@@OldHickoryForge from what I understand what grizzly was trying to do with a variable speed drive 110 single phase that will change AC to DC was rather difficult and being affordable. From what my electrician at my day job stated. With your typical AC motor it stays at a constant with no variable speed and is less ware on the motor therefore just stays at a constant. When adding the VFD it constantly up and down which means the wiring or wind of the motor would need to wound tighter and more abundantly. Keep in mind I am not an electrician im a welder so don't quote me on this. It makes sense though. I feel that even a fan on the end like most motors I see wouldn't have been a bad idea for starters. I got to sander running great though with my adjustments other than this motor.
Thanks for the sub!
Well, thought of buying one now not so much!
Smoke 'em if you got 'em shouldn't apply to tools.
I am looking for one of these but, This ones a grizzly tool, Might as well get a WEN or Harbor freight.
I bought a nexus from Lethbridge alberta it is 3 years old my son and I both use it 700 dollars well worthit
I think you were fair. Thank you. To me there is room to make improvements, charge more, and still be a lot less than a 2x72. I hope they fix it.
This is unfortunate.
I was looking at this as my first affordable 2 inch belt grinder, seems like i will keep looking.
That a Clay Spencer tire hammer in the background?
Dave Custer. Similar design but he beefed up some of the components and added the forklift pick up points which make it way easier to move. Great machine and a great company to work with
It's on backorder until Feb
As soon as I saw how small the motor was I knew it wouldn't hold up to actual grinding tasks.
Feel sorry for everyone who jumped on this thing thinking it would at least pay for itself. A file jig would be faster at removing steel.
This is the second video I've seen where someone doesn't know how to use the adjustments levers. When you reach the end of your travel. Then you pull out it will "ratchet" free and let you get another turn. Very common on all kinds of power tools
I think people are intentionally trying to kill this machine. Ive made several knofes with mine so far and have had zero issues out of the machine. The motor gets warm. But not to the point you cant put your hand on it. I dont see where people see it as being under powered. You definitely got a bad motor. Mone doesnt bog down at all even when hogging of material for stock removal knofes.
I don't think people understand the concept of letting the tool do the work.
@Tucker_Peenback even when clamped to the table I was using probably about ten percent of the pressure id use when grinding normally because of how fast it began to cut out. I sincerely do hope I got a bad motor. If it works for what you need it for that's great.
@@westcoastlifestyle5916 I assure you nobody is intentionally trying to kill the machine. If I wanted to do that I could have done it much faster. I hope yours holds up well. 💪🏻
Keep us in the loop with how yours holds up. If the motor is getting warm with use it means it may very well eventually fail no matter how gentle you are with it. I could be wrong and I hope I am.
tell me to buy a revolution 2x72 without telling me to buy a revolution 2x72.
My 2x42 Grizzly -T32459 - blue magic smoke from the motor at 3 months old. One call to tech support and 10 minutes later a new motor is on the way. Got it 4 days later. That's a 228 dollar replacement part for a 299 dollar piece of equipment. Yeah, I have skills and can replace it (and did, took 20 minutes) and
Yeah, I'll buy it again.
1.5 months months later the power supply died, again, new on sent in 5 days . Kudo's for customer support. I got the new black box, installed it (I have 3m level (component replacement) training and certification.
I can literally grab the belt and stop it. It has no power. The fix is apparently to kill the power.
Next call to Grizzly is to return. It's 5 months old.
And In august I got it replaced. I have 300 bucks in belts. I got a Vevor 2x72 with VFD in the interim, it's great so far.
Replacing the drive wheel with a smaller 4" wheel will mitigate the motor power issue. Every machine built is a compromise of design elements & component selections normally to meet a price point. There is a way to break every knife ever made & a way to break every electric motor ever made.
Bro....thank you for this review. I was planning on buying one JUST for material removal knife making. I think I'll wait for Part 2. You saved me 4 hunskie!
Btw, it was great seeing you post on TK's Triple T Thursday's video with the editing error. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I like how tight this community is. I commented on your post there, too. I hope you're doing well, and putting aside all other recent thoughts while doing dangerous work in the shop; he would want it that way bud. Take care brother.
What a let down. I have one of the old Grizzly 2x72s and it has ran strong for many years and I always thought Grizzly should make a affordable variable speed grinder but this is unacceptable.
that motor looks tiny.
Well, that's a bummer.
Seems more suitable for lighter tasks. Maybe a four inch puuko but not a bowie from a big honkin’ horseshoe rasp. If it came with small wheel attachments, I would buy it and dedicate it to handles ,guards and sharpening. But it doesn’t, so I won’t.
BTW Super nice knife.👍
I would think the biggest is it broke doing what it was suppose to do, or was it made for 4" knives............ And 110 power???????? In ME we have 120 volt power............
$100 shipping?
69$ shipping plus taxes.
@@OldHickoryForge inflation is killing us!
Mine was$67
the extension cord had nothing to do with it, that little motor is not meant for our line of work as blade smiths and blacksmiths
Still working on that big tool order? Or did you forget to take the shop out of vacation mode haha
Actually working with a new retailer that's keeping me busy full time now. I have some hammers leftover from this summers blade show production run I'll be finishing out and putting up for sale on IG. But that'll be the last time they're available to the general public until blade show next year if things keep going well on my end.
These would probably be good if you to get into mobile sharpening service, but as far as taking away large amount of material, it's definitely not worth it.
Man this has definitely given me pause. Thank you for the review
Those screw handles are spring loaded, turn it, pull it out return to previous position and turn it again, no different than using a wrench. If you cut it short to make it go around you're losing torque.
So far mine is just fine. Looking at 2x72 for 1200$ for what little I want to do just didn’t make sense. For the price of this 380$ you cant beat it.
i think im better off getting the wheel set from vevor and building the rest
McMaster Carr hardware store ****
Love having great information about the platinum and safety ( safety always great)
I'm ashamed you ran that sander and not having glasses as you are a leader of kids and Smiths both young and older.
Don't sound like a great product. Unfortunately, sometimes we pay for trying to save $$$$$.
China doesn't seem to impress me. I do like the Braun brand angle grinder the first year I have mine, or rather, I brought 2
I'm often not happy with Harbor Freight for the most, so them grinder are my test to shop Harbor Freight more often.
I'll be building my own 1x30, adding verbal speed from a washer motor so plenty of power so it should have speed and strength
Thanks John
I was wearing eye protection during grinding. They're clear. Pause the video and zoom in you'll see them.
OMG why don't you fuss at him for taking the guards off as well?
Maybe try proofreading your comments before posting, too...
You ever heard the old saying you get what you pay for? 🤣🤣
I too was hoping for a pass 🤷🏻♂️
Funny, i bought one of their drill presses.... worst machine i have ever had. It was ver under powered, tolerances are sloppy and my capacitor fried as well. Its junk man
Wow, sureglad I saw the review. Had thought about one. I'll save ny pennies instead. Thank you.
I personally love this grinder 🤷♂️
I don't have 110 or 220....Where can I get that voltage? In the USA where I live it's about 120 or 240. 😊
220, 221... whatever it takes.