I paid for Ben Shapiro’s video about atheism and all I got was disappointment
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Ben Shapiro released a video for his Debunked series on Dailywire+ called “The Atheist Delusion.” His ultimate point was that atheism leads to “the worst predations imaginable,” but he never actually supported that claim. Instead, he argued that atheists have no access to objective, transcendent truth, morality, or choice, inserting disparaging comments along the way. He also discussed Aquinas’ Five Ways, the Big Bang, the argument from fine-tuning, Stephen Meyer’s case for intelligent design, and the argument from consciousness. Here I discuss each of his claims
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Atheism is opposed to religion, that doesn't mean you can't have your own understanding of God despite religion, what a FARCE. Super close minded to suggest there is no reasonable middle ground.
j
Wonderful working with you, thanks for helping spread our mission!
Atheism is an argument from personal incredulity.
Atheism is an argument from personal incredulity
Facts don’t care about Ben Shapiro’s feelings.
He sure relies on his feelings a lot.
Hehe.... Yeah. For a Climate Science Denier, it's rich to run around pushing his slogan.
Ouch, it is too ironic.
I was thinking the same, such surprise ö
🫵 congratulations. You now can feel something from living in your moms basement.
"we don't know, therefore it was God" is like finding a dead body with a circular stab wound and assuming the murderer was a unicorn.
Are you assuming unicorns aren't real? Do you assume they aren't real because no one has ever found one? Hmmm, maybe you need a little faith, trust, and pixie dust. Seems to me a horn on a horse would be evolutionarily advantageous...
@@craisin7120 rhinoceros. Narwhales. Explorers saw rhinoceros, narwhales, etc. and merged them with horses. Not dissimilar from how medieval churches created (yes, created) relics to boost a town's (and church's) popularity and income.
@@craisin7120 Ben Shapiro being honest and intelligent would also be advantageous but here we are.
@@craisin7120 what evolutionary advantage? Horses and Zebras have the benefit that they have a powerful kick to defend themselves while being chased by a predator. Why would it be an evolutionary advantage to instead stand their ground and attempt to fight off the predator with a singular straight horn? Especially when they can easily be overpowered by a group of predators?
oh, that is priceless. I don't literally laugh out loud all that often during a day, but that one just kneecapped me in the funnybone. With your permission, I'm going to use that somewhere. Too good not to share.
Shapiro: “facts don’t care about your feelings.”
Also Shapiro: “God must be real, otherwise everything is without meaning.”
Question: CRT is just 'Uncomfortable Knowledge', do i get this rightt? Let me ask specific-as-can-be:
Banning CRT means banning videos like what 'Some More News' made about Hawaii oer Thanksgiving, or what 'Second Thought' uploaded about the Developing World? OR CUBA?
@@slevinchannel7589 what? those are on youtube, which is a private platform. people usually talk about public schools, which dont teach crt anyway
Also Shapiro: Don't critique my arguments or you'll hurt my fee-fees!
The existence of a god is neither provable nor unprovable. Your “feeling” are clouding you.
@@point_blank6944 the existence of bigfoot is neither provable nor unprovable, but the rational position to take is to not believe he exists.
The "God is real but He exists on a separate plain" is the religious equivalent of "I have a girlfriend, but she goes to a different school"
No man just gotta believe your whole life without any reason
Yeah it's kinda odd 😅
I would've said "but she lives in Canada" but, yeah.
I always laugh when believers say god exists outside time and space, but when someone points out that the bible sanctions slavery, those same people say "that was a different time."
That put a big smile on my face, I worked with a guy that had a girlfriend but nobody ever saw her.
“Facts don’t care about feelings unless they’re my feelings because my feelings are fact”
-Ben Shapiro probably
Yeah, he definitely believes that
Yes, and that's true.
this video is a compilation of bs
For example at 2:57 most countries he pointed out is religious by majority (google it)
Norway is Christian
Australia is Christian
United kingdom is Christian
Belgium is Roman Catholic
Denmark is Evangelical Lutheran
@@emad3241 source? He's sourcing WIN/gallup my man its a pretty reliable source. The first response on google is very often incorrect or coming from a shit source. so like you're gonna have to grab a source which not only proves WIN/gallup wrong and proves another source correct but also prove GMS had any intent to mislead his viewers to a false conclusion. It also wasn't exactly a very important point in his video tbh, people make like mistakes sometimes with their sources. If it’s a “compilation of BS” you can do better than one example you haven’t even properly substantiated. Give me 5
@@theveganduolingobird7349
maybe (compilation of BS) was way too harsh, but i can sure give you examples of some bs in the video
- (The WIN-Gallup International Association (WIN/GIA) poll results below are the totals for "not a religious person" (regardless of whether they had some religious affiliation) and "a convinced atheist" combined.)
you can't assume someone is an atheist just because they said they're not religious, i tell people all the times that i'm "not very religous" even tho i'm a muslim, just because i'm not dedicated
- but like you said, this is beside the point, the point ben shapiro was making which he missed is that religion makes people happier and atheists on the internet are bullying everyone to leave religion which could effect the well-being of the population negetivly
that's a very well-documented phenomenon btw (source: Pew Research)
in fact, the man said it himself, he said people who go through hardship are more likely to be religious (3:12)
- 0:40 extremist secular ideologies like comunisim and maoist socialism probably k!lled far more people that all religious wars in history combined, mao zedong for example sent religious people to concentration camps, he saw them as subhumans, he thought he was doing mankind a favor, those people had no limits
most atheists today are pretty peaceful people (except in countries like China where they're hostile toward religious people), mostly because they lived in more developed nations and adhere to judeo-Christian values of the west, but it's historically inaccurate to assume that secularism doesn't lead to a dark path
- 17:59 Being a determinist is bs, quantum physics disproved that theory a long time ago by introducing random event, it's funny that he proceeded to say that he believe (everything in the universe is inevitable) which is a completely different theory from the theory of determinism, then proceed to record every time ben shairo confuses his terminology (i'm not a fan of ben shapiro either btw)
- also he missed Ben Shapiro point again, studies show that Belief in Free Will Predicts Life Satisfaction and Positive Affect (source: pubmid)
i can keep going but the comment is long enough
that "atheism is a result of unhappiness" argument is a funny and ironic one seeing as how unhappy people are almost always the targets of religious converters
The only way Atheism comes from unhappiness is when radical religious zealots don't shut the fuck up
Yea I've only ever turned to spirituality or religion during times of crisis. When I'm happy I don't do that 😅
@@snoozyq9576 wussy
Atheism made me happier.
I grew up Mormon, I felt oppressed and ashamed to just exist, when I was finally able to break from that, I felt liberated, like I could finally be who I am without being indirectly prosecuted for it every sunday.
There's an example of this in a RUclips series called "Impulse" where a man turns to religion to find peace in his otherwise depressing and guilt-ridden existence.
As someone who was happily and lovingly raised by Atheist parents, someone who has never believed in gods or goddesses one single day of her life, I've always found the "all atheists are just mad at god" fiction to be particularly astonishing.
The belief of the nonexistence of Dod is automatically blasphemous specially for the majority of christians.
Loosing my religion was a arduous and harrowing process. Living life as a heathen has estranged me from society, constrained my relations by constantly reminding me of the dual entangled nature of co creation.
Living life in the unconditional ebb and flow of present sense depend on a shared point of view, one that religious beliefs obfuscate with dogma and biases that refutes change in lieu of their fealty to the status quo.
Any advice?
@@thedailydao I mean as an Atheist everything depends on you. Your actions have consequences and essentially this is it. As an Atheist live does not have a higher meaning than what you give it. Atheist is a bit of a weird word, since it means not believing, however as an Atheist you need to believe in one thing and that is yourself. Not a god determines your life but mostly you and obviously circumstance.
Also a great R.E.M. song.
Yeah, I'm not mad at God for not fixing stuff. I'm not scared of God's judgement and I'm also not denying God because I want to do sinful things. I just don't believe that God exists at all, the same way Christians don't believe in Krishna, or Odin, or Zeus.
If there was a loving God he would’ve told Ben Shapiro to stfu by now
facttt
Also probably won't let human hurt each other and all the other horrible stuff going on, I think if god did existed, be really disappointed in us :/
@@FallenRosestormA song made in 2019 about by this band puts it nicely. "Baby Jesus sheds a tear" it's Planet B by King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard
For real
Definitely a sadist if they exist lol
The only thing I can associate with Ben Shapiro is the "Hypothetically, lets say I was a barbie girl. Would it not be reasonable to assume I would be living in a barbie world?" meme
That, and the “SELL THE HOUSES TO WHO, BEN? FUCKING AQUAMAN?”
@@amycox5733Oh is that where the aqua man meme comes from
lmao
god i wish i was a barbie girl tbh
@@insertname9305 in a barbie world?
"Being a believer is a consistent struggle with the nature of the universe"
You know what? I agree, he does have trouble with reality.
Theism does that to a person, and it's not just theism that does that. It's not a coincidence that right wingers, conspiracy theorists, theists and other superstitious people often whine that "main stream media" is leftist. You're already left if you just stick with the facts and their context. You have to at least keep facts out or strip them from context to be "fair and balanced" in the eyes of the right and there's a reason for that and it's because they don't agree with reality. They don't just disagree with people left of them but with reality as a whole.
yep! being religious is contradictory to all we observe in nature! i mean idk how can they live in a delusional world,while seeing also the contradicted reality???
His feelings don't care about facts.
Yep--all Christians say they struggle with life--especially because they believe in a magical, invisible, Uber-galactic phantasm that is supposed to guide them, but doesn’t because it isn’t there. You are absolutely right about Shapiro.
Everyone does. It's called being a human being.
Ben Shapiro: "Being a religious believer is being in a consistent struggle with the logic of the Universe." Lol, that's cognitive dissonance.
Lmao yep
Exactly! Reading the existentialist philosophy of Kierkegaard gives insight as to why people want to believe in a paradox. In "Fear and Trembling" and "The Sickness unto Death," K talks about connecting the finite universe to the infinite, or God, through faith. He knows that it is a paradox, so he gives faith as the way not to reconcile two conflicting ideas but to believe both.
What Kierkegaard didn't understand is that the mind hates cognitive dissonance and will throw any reasoning at it until it resolves. You can't resolve it and keep two conflicting beliefs intact, so reconciling logic and faith involves rejecting one or compromising on one or both.
That sounds like my experience with religion in my pre-teen to teen years. Eventually I realized I only believed out of obligation and stopped entirely.
I know I am intelligent, because the only thing I know is that I know nothing.
Religious people trying to use Bible verses instead of actual acceptance of reality to cope
"I just bought something from Ben shapiro"
"So you're saying you want a divorce"
SOMEONE GIVE THAT HUMAN A MEDAL
4 real I had 2 stop the video 2 regroup after that joke
@@katiecooper1923 Me too, I was like dam that escalated quickly
Shapiro: "The concept of infinity hurts my brain."
Also Shapiro: "Must be God."
God is pain.
@@scipioafricanus5871 And then some. Picture a band-aid made of gangrene and a picture of a unicorn to make you feel good about it.
It's sorta weird 'cause isn't that just basically saying God is infinite? Honestly that hurts my brain just as much as the other concept does.
@@na1959
A limited idea of human design... But humans are simple machines...
Their "Gods" are not even that old...
Makes sense. After all, it's impossible to approach infinity from the right.
I work in a local shop with a co-worker who is in his 60's, and Christian. He is genuinely one of the nicest individuals I've met, and he's very open to telling me about his belief in God and his struggles and experiences during that; he has never belittled my atheist views, and shown them just as much respect as I show his.
He never uses his religion as an excuse for fuelling his own bigotry, and believes in the morals rather than the stories. Genuinely a great person, and one that any religious person should strive to be like.
Edit: Reread this after the latest reply, and realised my own bias coming through. All religious and atheist people should strive to be like*
I've met many such believers in Suriname.
ben uses religion to further his fascist agenda
@@xdrowssap4456 Exactly, it's a horrible thing to do.
I known a few individuals such as you describe, and we’ve had great relationships and conversations. However I’ve know just as many individuals who totally exemplify the term Christian hypocrisy, and operate completely blind to the double standard by which they conduct themselves despite it being blatantly clear to all standing in witness.
This is what the Christian God and Jesus want Christians to be in the Bible.
I just have to say: I was raised Mormon which you probably know is VERY structured and pervasive in daily life. When I was on my way out of the religion, I had a surprisingly hard time reconciling in my head that groups can exist without that level of structure or control. I was heavily confused looking into things like Wicca, BLM, atheism and other groups/belief systems that lack that type of structure because it didn’t make sense to me that these could exist without a leader and someone telling you what to think/believe/do. Ben seems to be having the same struggle reconciling atheism.
What really shows the brainwashing there is the fact that you perceive BLM and atheism as belief systems. No - they are simply labels given to ONE idea that people happen to share. So of course that one believe doesn't need a curator or arbitrator or priest to keep everyone in line. And for the record - OF COURSE BLM and atheism are no more religions than being an angler or riding horses. They are a thing that is just part of your world view and interests/aspirations.
THANK YOU, growing up a jehovahs witness I had a trouble getting my head around Wicca as well since it seemed completely self governing at times and I was used to having 5 days out of my week filled with “spiritual activities”
I would say I can’t call myself anything. Because that puts me into a box. Into a group. I change my mind everyday, so I can’t attach to any narrative for too long because I am always changing what I believe based on the information I am presented. My beliefs are based on my gut and intuition in each situation. If I could call myself something it would be a dancer, a music and animal lover, a laugher, a person who is a person through and through. I am wrong a lot. I make a ton of mistakes, but I am doing my best to try to be a ‘good’ person and do what I think is right. As a person who grew up in the Christian church, went to Lutheran summer camp, and catholic high school and baptized Mormon at 21…then got into spirituality, then astrology, then tarot and crystals, then pseudoscience, Buddhism, then became a raver, then became sober, then because a student and went back to college and now self educated on RUclips…I just want to keep an open mind always. There is ONE thing I know for sure…I don’t know what happens when we die because I have never died.
This is so scary, to know that there are individuals out there that have little to no self agency. Terrifying thought that most of them will never get the chance to think for themselves. They can’t even understand the concept of self agency. Truly saddening and it makes me angry that in today’s day and age in the information era we still have that problem. I’m just grateful that I was fortunate enough to receive a good education in my development that allowed me to question things that just didn’t sound right it made sense and I’ve always been rebellious in nature so eventually I was able to get out of that environment at 16. My only thought is that if you were able to free your mind you should help other people do so as well. I believe it’s our cosmic responsibility to help them be free. Now be mindful, most have made peace with their cages. Its impossible to free someone, they must do it themselves. We just provide support.
Fellow exmo here, just wanted to say I hope you’re doing well with your faith transition! It can be EXTREMELY rough.
Ben Shapiro is a classical sophist, someone who uses the language and structure of logic without its intellectual rigor or substance. To emotionally desperate people seeking any islands of justification for their continued beliefs in spite of creeping logical doubts, this can provide solace, though it might be temporary. He takes bits and pieces of truth and logic and rapidly spins them together with vast assumptions and sloppy thinking to create the impression of solidity and calm reason. To those not used to honest debate it can seem as if Shapiro is laying down a good case for his viewpoints. The longer and more carefully they're actually scrutinized, however, the more rapidly they fall apart.
...huh. For the hell of it, I looked up some definitions of 'sophist', and without following any links, I see the google result previews for Wikipedia and Merriam-Webster. In that order,
"A sophist is a person who reasons with clever but fallacious and deceptive arguments."
"Sophistry is reasoning that seems plausible on a superficial level but is actually unsound, or reasoning that is used to deceive."
So what I've learned today is that, apparently, Bill Paxton's character in _True Lies,_ the sleazebag used car salesman, was actually a -Ben Shapiro- sophist. Who knew?
@@EdwardHowton lol when I started reading your comment I thought you had googled “sophist” and the photo of Ben Shapiro had come up on top of the page. 😂
Thank you for giving me this word to describe Peterson, Samuels, and Shapiro! I used to follow some of their works but given my history in social work and psychology I knew what they were saying was off, a lot of conjecture but I didn’t have a word to describe the “fake intellectual” aesthetic itself.
(To be fair l do think they’re smart but the problem with being/looking smart is that you can use it to justify a lot of biased, emotional, dumb, or harmful things. People who pretend to be rigidly logical are often the ones most ruled by their emotions.)
@@pansepot1490 I’m hugely disappointed this is a troll, got me good my day is ruined
You might like him better because he said *"Jesus was just a rebel rouser that got what he deserved."*
Lighten up..
Ben is on yuz guys side!
Bash away!
Ben Shapiro's documentary actually made me an atheist
His existence made me a believer. I pray everyday he'll disappear forever. 🙏
@@BillClay88 you got me from the start ngl good one
That's never good.
@Russell Scott
Damn mate u got me in the first half xD
@@BillClay88 Don't we all
“Being a religious believer is a constant struggle with the logic of the universe”
Ben, say that again, but slowly
Read it again. Do you think you grasp every truth that exists throughout the universe or are you just slow? He is saying he is trying to understand how everything works
@@kiddkuru if that is how you interpret this line then he is clearly not putting effort into this struggle
@@Mish844 and how should he do that? Fly to space, or get Rick’s portal gun so he can start traveling the multiverse first hand? We aren’t technologically powerful enough and the vast expanse of space is so massive we can’t even comprehend it, let alone learn everything about it
@@kiddkuru if only there was a framework that could be used to explore the world around us and had some achievements to back its credibility like a developed medicine or, I dunno, succesful launch resulting in putting a man on the moon.
@@Mish844 I’m not talking about earth or the moon
I think needing to have a fear of going to hell in order to be moral, and thinking that being an atheist immediately makes you unable to be moral... says a lot about people like him.
"If you are only a good person because of fear of hell, you're not a good person, you're a bad person on a leash"
@@leritykay8911 an imaginary leash no less. Like I think deep down a lot of them know that when they break their own rules...
and the funniest part is that majority of believers don't really care about hell at all. They do all kinds of sins and don't even know that they are sinners. They are hypocritical as fuck
From what I've seen of Shapiro in this & the political ones on progressive videos, he is a sick little man. His podcast is funded by right wing billionaires who have an agenda that wants people scared & hopeless so no one tries to make this a better world. This was my rant.IMO, anyone who spews the lies that Shapiro does is morally bankrupt. Great video Drew!
I think disliking others for their religious beliefs, whatever they are, and the thinking that being atheistic is the only way to be intelligent… says a lot about people like you.
Ben Shapiro is proof that miracles exist. There’s no rational explanation for how someone can sound and act so much like a South Park character and yet have even a shred of confidence, and yet Shapiro overflows with outrageous amounts of unearned confidence.
@Buck Rothschild I'd watch a Beavis and Ben Shapiro cartoon
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. It is those whom know little which assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin
@Buck Rothschild He does not need TP! Are you threatening *The Great Cornholio* ?! There is but One bunghole!!!
You must exude confidence to be a right-wing grifter. Same applies to Peterson.
@@scionofdorn9101 A great quote, thank you
I was actually born and raised atheist. Both my parents were raised religiously conservative and ended up leaving their churches once they became independent. Hearing people say atheism is caused by unhappiness is so funny to me, because I've always had the opposite experience, and from what my parents tell me, they did too.
Same here, both of my parents were raised religiously, but they didnt want me to be raised like that, they mostly wanted me to form my own opinion and since a child i ended up as an atheist lol
My mom was Irish Catholic, my dad was Southern Baptist. They made my two oldest siblings go to church back in the 60s and 70s, then the middle child started questioning religion and asking questions that both my parents couldn't explain and they went to talk to their priest who told them "Because God Says so" and both my parents hated that response and they stopped forcing the kids to go to church and the other siblings never had to go. They would very politely explain "While we have our beliefs, we're never going to force you to conform to them because someone else says so. If you wan to go to church, then you can, but we won't be going any more because why would you listen to a engineer who can't tell you why a bridge is safe but you must listen to a preacher who talks out his ass"
My mom was raised catholic, but didn’t really care either way, and my dad wasn’t raised one way or the other. So I was basically told, some people believe, others don’t. Your choice. I went atheist
I had a similar experience, except I grew up with parents who were in the process of becoming atheists. My mom's upbringing was especially messed up, getting shuffled between cults by her narcissist parents, and my dad didn't necessarily have a great time either, but they're both so much happier now. My mom's special interest as a kid was her religion, so she knows the Bible better than any Christian I have ever met lol. It did not help her live a better life. When she stopped being religious, she started working through her trauma, and she's sooo much happier now. They both say that they feel so much less shame about everything (tho my dad still has major hangups with that and also the protestant work ethic) And I, growing up as they changed their beliefs, can tell you that they're happier now. I'm not entirely sure where the 'unhappy atheist' stereotype comes from tbh. Even the few atheists we knew in our very conservative city were just pretty chill.C
I’m third gen atheist and religion is just so alien to me
Beat me to it! I promise I'm not just copying you (this time). Does this mean we both paid for Daily Wire Plus? Ew.
I'm eager to watch your video on this topic!
This is the 5th time there’s been a coincidence. And I haven’t seen you both in the same room…
"this time" lol
@@elijahbuck6499 just a coincidence....or a miracle :)
meatball pieces be upon The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Regardless, we thank you for your sacrifice.
the way i became atheistic is by asking a question to a catholisism teacher, and getting "its a mystery of faith" as an answer.
When I was like 2-3nd grade, I asked some grandmas at our church “how do you know if god is real? What if he is not real?”. I was just asking a normal kid question, but they just gasped and one of them slapped me…just because I asked a normal question💀
@@Sa1tyCaramelthat genuinely sucks
I hate to break the hearts of pdf file atheists but men cannot menstruate and they cannot give birth either
Doesnt make a lot of sense.
1.Catholicism and Islam are the two most absurd religions out there. The Catholic magisterium claims sole authority on interpretation of scripture but has taken it upon itself to " interpret " like 8 passages in 1500 years.
2 some things are mysteries which your friendly neighborhood atheist will also tell you.
When I was 11, I went to catechism class. One time the priest sat in and said we could ask questions. I asked, “can there be a hell on earth?” The priest answered that hell is only a punishment after death. I asked “how do you know?” He answered “that is what the Church teaches.” I once again asked “how do you know? Did God tell you?” He couldn’t answer. That was the end of it for me.
Ironically, Shapiro is noted for demanding "evidence" from anyone who questions his position.
Even when you give him facts, he'll just gaslight you or call you an anti semite or some stupid b.s.. Shapiro is a con artist and a troll.
And then when evidence that contradicts his position is presented, he dismisses it off hand.
I'd say hypocritically
Also the irony of an Orthodox Jew aligning himself with Christian Nationalists and assuming a positive outcome.
@@hunter_lite Harsh. Also real. Harsh reality? Anyway, I like it how the word irony comes from Greek, just like the jesus stories, and I love what it meant then. It comes from theater, where an ironic character would be oblivious that they are the joke, much like Bennie doesn't see that he is. I think it's just too funny of a coincidence that that meaning also still applies and has the same origin as the jesus stories :) Annnnd to me Bennie and his christian adventure are like a play to me :D I don't care what happens, I just have my popcorn and I enjoy the journey of this ironic character :D I do worry a lot about the setting he is in though. White nationalism is no joke. But good for Bennie that jews aren't the targeted minority anymore, right. RIght? Oh dear. Ah well. Popcorn? :)
It's staggering just how often during Ben's video he would attempt to make an argument, and my brain would just go "but why?" Ben is just like "this must be true" and then doesn't say why it's true. "Chocolate is delicious, apples are delicious, I like to eat apples with chocolate spread, therefore, it can be assumed that a higher power must be informing my taste for chocolate-covered apples."
Apples with chocolate spread sounds like you'd already be experiencing hell, tbh.
@@bigchungus6827 Yeah lets stick to caramel please.
Pineapple is delicious. Pizza is delicious. Pineapple on pizza is an abomination.
Underrated comment
@@vladtheimpala5532 Nah, pineapple on pizza is fine.
I don't order it, but if someone else does I'll eat it.
Now if you've ever tried mixing Swiss cheese and dark chocolate, you'd find that it's not as bad as you'd think.
However, mixing Ben Shapiro with anything is absolutely terrible.
Who could have guessed that Ben Shapiro's moral system is just an appeal to an imaginary authority figure? Truly I am floored by this revelation.
facts dont care about your feelings, except when i feel gods on my side
@@crystalgiddens7276 atheism is not a moral system. It has nothing at all to say on morals.
@@crystalgiddens7276 Atheism isn't a moral system any more than theism is. Keep your bizarre straw men to yourself.
@@thedeebo410
yes but it results in organ harvesting is all
@@crystalgiddens7276 Atheism isn't a moral system, my guy. Atheism's only "tenet" is a lack of belief in God. You also say that as God's required punishment for sin in the Bible is death and bloody sacrifice. You wanna talk about God's morality? Why don't you ask the sex slaves taken by God's armies (at HIS request) in the Old Testament how "moral" God is. Literally anything the Communists did are nothing compared to the celebrated, lauded and worshipped actions of God.
As an agnostic with a philosophy degree who is very open to disagreement, I’m actually jaw dropped at how poorly constructed Shapiro’s rapid-fire half-arguments come across. I’d expect this from a mouthy first year taking Intro, not of a supposed, “Intellectual.”
Ben and his fans mistake verbal fluency for intelligence.
@@rclrd1 "hes talking so fast he must be right!"
I haven't even formally studied philosophy and even I was unimpressed with how poorly constructed his arguments and points are 😂
Ben has never been that smart - he’s a pure Gish Gallop lightweight.
Thank you, I agree. However, Ben is a lawyer correct? Does that not imply intellect as an achievement. I'm not saying Ben is a genius but he's also not stupid. It's all different areas of knowledge I guess, Ben is a moron when it comes to religious beliefs snd Philosophy, but he must be knowledgeable in law right?
For the record, it was some very hard life changes that got me reconsidering my religious faith. I didn't get out because I was angry. I got out because I realised it made ZERO sense.
There is a progressive Priest I like. He was trying to do a series on Christian Nationalism, but ended by saying that god did not create the US, but he was who gave the founders hope, and that hope led to the US being created. The atheists shared how they felt betrayed at this portrayal and we immediately get attacked by the Christians saying the message was good, and we were just "angry" and against hope. They and the priest could not comprehend why what he said bothered us in this climate. He does not understand how his video ties into Ben Shapiro claim. They use "I'll pray for you" the same way the south uses "bless your heart". They have an entire coded language to goad. It's beyond not making sense. They are actively targeting now. That is what Shapiro is about.
When I was a kid I got taught about Jesus and I also read Spider-Man. I never even realised that people expected me to believe the Jesus stories were real. The entire thing is absolutely crazy and it makes me realise humans are doomed that we have the JWST but billions of people still believe in space elves.
@@RobJT Spider-Man has good morals tbh. “With great power comes great responsibility”
Made me think “so.. with infinite power comes infinite responsibility? So... God is responsible for EVERY BAD THING EVER?????”
@@whysocurious7366
*CORRECT!*
Agreed
"Being a religious believer is a consistent struggle with the logic of the universe..." -Ben Shapiro.
There he said it himself. He admits religion is not compatible with logic and scientific fact.
exactly if youre right there is no "consistent struggle" with logic
Pure delusion
What he means is "it is a constant struggle to trick yourself and deny away the reality that surrounds you"
@@FFKonokostill waiting on my surroundings to proof God doesn't exist.
@@wilfreddvIt’s the responsibility of the one making the claim to prove the claim true. We don’t need to prove that God doesn’t exist, you need to prove that he does. There is no observed phenomenon in the world that irrefutably demonstrates the existence of anything supernatural.
As someone who's never been right leaning, Ben Shapiro was a puzzling figure when I first discovered him. I was astounded someone with the reputation of an 'intellectual' could spout out so many logical fallacies and so disingenuously misrepresent his opponents. That's when I realized I wasn't his target audience.
Ben isn't trying to move people over to his position. His goal is to further entrench conservatives in the beliefs they already hold.
Ben's MO is to answer every question with false dischotomies, false equivalencies, strawmen, red herrings and whataboutisms. The problem is he's usually talking with 19yo kids in a college hall who have no quick rebuttals for him -- he does this for a living, after all, while they don't. But when he talks to an adult, say, Andrew Neill, he immediately turns into a child when confronted.
How can I spot these logical fallacies while he’s saying them? He speaks very fast
@@Mor-tis Ya gotta set the vid speed at .5x :p
@@zeitxgeist lmfaoo
People who are actually in academia like researchers and professors hate people like them. They actually know the theories he spouts and hate how terribly he appropriates them.
It still stuns me that anyone takes Ben Shapiro seriously.
bro went viral for winning some arguments against some supid college kids and now he belives he know everything thinks he s got the rifght to judge people, what a wanker
I take him seriously... _ill_
@@yamataichulget well soon
People who like Ben. Like me. Could care less about his religion or take on religion or music lol
it shouldn't. the guy knows what he's talking about. the fact that atheists try so hard to disprove his statements only goes to show how wrong they know they are
Drew, I need to thank you, even though you’ll probably never see this. You’ve helped me so much with my reconversion from Christianity, and you’ve made me feel like I’m not alone. I’m much happier now, and you’ve played a huge role in that. So again, thank you for everything you’ve done, you help people more than you know with this channel, and I hope you continue to well into the future!
he did see it. idk whether the heart shows up in notifications so I just wanted to make sure you know :)
@@ezra7088 Thank you! It doesn’t show up, so thank you for letting me know! My life is complete now :)
@@feeli3422 Oh really? I always get notifications in my gmail if I receive a heart...
@@feeli3422 I get notified, I think you just have to adjust your notification settings in RUclips.
Anytime you feel alone in your deconversion go to "Neil The 604 Atheist" here on YT. You are so far rom alone it's not even funny.
As a 57 year old I'm in awe of your dedication and devotion to critical thinking and reasoning. I came out of religion several years ago and am still deconverting. Your videos, especially this one, is a testament of your determination to fairly examine and evaluate the arguments and premises on both sides. 👏 Thank you.
I'm also 57 and had a hard time breaking free of the indoctrination of religion - the Catholic verzion to be exact. Good luck!
@@playtime5051 wow I hope ur doing well
I'm actually so proud/happy for both of you guys, it gives me at least just a little more faith in humanity back, literally. You guys and people like you are honestly what gives me strength and soundness sometimes
Especially like when I completely feel like giving up
@@mihailmilev9909 please, do not give up of God. You can have everybody and every thing in this world, but if you do not have God in your heart and life, its all nothing....
Childhood is when you think Ben Shapiro is a genius because you saw him talk really fast in a “Feminists Owned 2015 Compilation”
Growing up is when you realize he’s of average intelligence at best, lies constantly, and overall doesn’t know what he’s talking about he just talks really fast
Word salads everywhere.
He's very skilled at sounding like he knows what he's talking. He's a hell of a conman.
I don't consider this a compliment.
Feminists owned compilations are made by immature uncultivated minds for immature uncultivated audience. Hence the millions of views and throughout history there have only been a limited number of sages as compared to the infinite numbers of fools. Not a defence of feminists, they too have abused feminity as liberals abused liberalism.
True,true, true......I call it vomit spray.
The Shapiro vomit spray.
Kudos to G.M to go through that word salad.😎😎👍👍👍
ruclips.net/video/045B0KQOlWM/видео.html
"Doesn't know what he's talking about" is laying out basic facts.
Whenever I hear something about Ben Shapiro, I always am reminded of,"Sell their houses to who, Ben? Fucking Aquaman?" From hbomberguy's measured response to climate change deniers
That line made burst out laughing multiple times
I read this line in his voice lmao
I love how humans are so arrogant that when we recognize communication in nature we assume that some brilliant mind is directing it. Rather than realizing that our communication is a product of the natural evolution of our species as part of the greater organism of this planet.
🙌
Agreed; The very notion that we are at the centre of gods universe and man is made in his image, presumably because we are the apex of a life's is just a narcissistic point of view in itself.
Ahh yes well said 👌
I like how he called it "the Atheist Delusion," once again demonstrating that he's a total hack without a single original thought
Hey come on, thinking requires effort.
If he isn't specifically referring to the equally thoughtless hack book by that title, he's also committing plagiarism, because some other moron took a look at Dawkins's book and also went 'nuh ur r teh dilujin LOLOLO' and beat Shapiro to the -punch- pathetically weak limp-wristed slapping flail.
But it's pretty commonplace for creationists to crib off of each other. There's a _reason_ I came up with the expression "incestuous clusterfuck of stupidity", and it wasn't because it rolled off the tongue.
Makes me wonder if Dawkins even knows Shapiro exists.
@@DamienBlade If he does, I guarantee he wishes he didn't.
The title, and the atheists he chose to quote, all feels very 2007 to me.
I remember in my childhood as a strongly believing (heavily indoctrinated) Christian thinking that all non-Christians were unhappy. They sometimes pretended to be happy, but it was pretense. As a non-believing adult I am much happier than I was a child.
I am someone who needs religion and am happier with it, however the religion I was indoctrinated in as a kid made me very unhappy (I was catholic). I loved the people in my church and they were cool people, but the religion itself was not for me. I found neopaganism and am very happy as a Kemetic pagan. Looking back at the Abrahamic religions, I see the appeal but there is so much dogma in the religions I could never be happy. I know people who are very happy as atheist, although everyone has something they believe in, even if it isn't supernatural.
Interesting comment! I agree. My daughter goes to a private Christian school because it’s the best of bad choices for education in our area, and during her third grade field trip I heard some of the students in her class saying that kids who go to public school love the devil, are evil, hate Christians, and are generally “lost”. Suffice to say I’m now looking into moving (costly but important) and acquiring a better education for my daughter.
@@Younce_Davies sacrificing people to the gods also makes me happy
I was Christian for 33 years; I always wondered why non-believers seemed to have it all, not all of them of course. But they were and are successful most of the time-so are some believers. I was told that the devil helped them gain fame and fortune so they would miss out on God and ultimately land in hell one day. But yes, I along with you have happiness and strength for life without having a Bronze Age war god sucking the life out of us.
For me greatest ecstasy I felt was, I fully stoped belived religion.
It's like 15 tons of pressure was lifted in the moment.
You know, being born, raised, and currently living in the deepest of the deep south myself, it's been incredibly difficult at times to exist in much of any social setting without being bombarded with invitations to church or conversations about christian doctrine. I typically deflect prying conversations by stating how I'm really not sure which denomination is the right one. I mean christians can't even agree on which actions are sins which require forgiveness, or what kind of baptism (if any at all) is required to be even considered for heaven in the afterlife. That usually shuts the convo down fairly quickly and doesn't immediately label me as "one of them EEE-vil athiests".
I don’t know if this appeals to you at all, but I also live in the Deep South and my social group for years has been in the arts community. Even when I was still a Christian, I found tolerance there. (Of course, I also tried my best not to be a self-righteous jerk.)
"if we're just balls of meat wandering around in space, how exactly do we make choices?" - actual sentence spoken by a well educated human adult in the year 2022
"balls of meat wandering around in space"
sounds super F'ing cool IMO
I thought the Flying Spaghetti Monster was satire, but now I think I'm starting to realize I may be a meatball!
But isn't that the problem we individualize this stuff, when is a social problem to me the problem Is not what Ben says, but tha fact that he can say it without any repercussions on its reputation as "well educated" people buy degrees ( even those who studied for their tests) and the educational system has been openly admitting that t's broken since 80' how come we take "collage education" as standard for "well educated"?
@@jesusbrito5165 not the same thing.
a scientist knows what he is talking about when one of his peers talk to him.
same thing for an engineer or mathematician.
just casually talking with a peer shows your level of expertise and education on said field.
that's why degrees are important,they are a title that proves that you know your shit.
you can fake a title but not knowledge and experience.
if someone(named a) buys their degree, just talking with another person(named b) with a real degree will show that he doesn't deserve a degree.
b just has to ask a question that requires practical experience to answer to a.
@@kaantax8666 While I understand your general premise, one need only look to the recent legal arguments and motions filed down in Mar-a-Lago to know that it's not accurate. There are many with education that don't hold degrees. There are many with degrees that lack education.
What's more, two students of university attend the same program, attain the same credentials, yet practice entirely different or not at all.
Here is a point I wish you have made: If Ben's claims are true, then we should expect athiests to be overrepresented on a per-capita basis in prison populations, gang memberships, and terrorist groups. That is demonstrably false and requires to be explained if one is going to paint atheists as inherently prone to violence and predatory behavior.
Good point
Or be true globally. Except for NATO in totality many individual countries crime rates, terrorist acts and whatever else he spews are way less than within religious countries. You have the Northern and Scandinavian countries haven’t been at war internally or with others for decades and have smaller rates of violence. All primarily secular people. The most notorious terrorist Breikvik is a Christian fundamentalist nationalist. Others smaller fish in that ocean have religious beliefs. Making his assumptions completely wack.
A bit amusing of the claim... Given Lucifer...
But I could care less... Mankind was terminated before... This iteration will be tested once more...
Gods or no Gods... Their divine souls are not even that old to mine... Another dimension to fall into oblivion.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615
"I could care less" means you do care.
The phrase is "I couldn't* care less"
I can imagine his retort.. something along the lines of:
Well heh if they were Christian heh, they would be moral heh and wouldn’t commit crimes heh. Therefore, heh, they must actually be atheists heh.
One of the first things Ben says is "if we understood the mind of God, then we would be like God," acknowledging that nobody can know what God's mind or thinking is. All of religion is based on what people think God wants or said. He basically refutes all of scripture, teachings, and church sermons right out of the gate. If we can't know the mind of God, then we are guessing, and if we are guessing then we could be wrong, but do you think any religious person would admit to being wrong about their whole belief system? Ironic.
"...religion is based on what people think God wants. Exactly right, and I note that when it is in their favor it is god, but if not it is either The Devil or Humans (which are basically the same). None of it makes sense because the contradictions constantly move the goal posts. It is at least when a religionists admits none it of needs to make sense because if it did, faith becomes knowledge. Instead, Shapiro et al. expect people to simply accept both logical and illogical conclusions simultaneously.
@@LouieLouie505 The part that really annoys me is that I know Shapiro is a smart person, he's capable of logic and reason, but he also knows that the grift is real and he makes waaaaaay more money this way, ie. lying or misleading people, and misrepresenting facts and arguments. Can't be mad at him, money is money, it just feels dishonest. A lot on the right do it, Shapiro, Candace Owens, Blaire White, Dave Rubin, etc.
Who was that angel that wanted to be like god? Wonder what happened to him.
@@esmirami351 Aye, the fanfiction of christians is a lot more fun than the actual religion itself.
But how can you even know that unless you've had the experience of knowing the mind of God? So really either you're making things up or you are indirectly claiming to know the mind of God
Ben Shapiro's feelings don't care about facts
I'm religious, and I have benefited greatly from most atheist encounters. They taught me things my priest certainly never spoke about, and they polished up my critical thinking skills, which tend to grow very dull when you live in a religion bubble with other believers. It has been my experience that people who howl about atheists are neither very godly nor particularly religious... but very, very political.
@@conscientiously Maybe get rid of your dread. Why don't you read the more universalist traditions of Christianity. Writers like DB Hart - an Orthodox theologian - draws on the Christian traditions of All Shall Be Saved. If you are being religious because you are afraid of death or hell... then you might be religious, but you are not very godly.
@conscientiously
Or … join the dark side 😈
Actually there's not much going on over here. I mean, that's kinda the point lol
@@conscientiously you see… you can’t reconcile any religion with science. Science is logic. Science is evidence and predictions made on that evidence. Not 2 buildings fall down therefore 9/11 therefore god. Faith is based on an assertion that has no evidence, if it is any of the religions it has mountains of evidence that points towards it being false. It is willful ignorance. If it is The abrahamic religions, it is worshipping a monster and I can site you many many many many examples of that monstrous behavior done by that god. Please just think. Actually think about what the consequences are of your beliefs. How much pain they cause for people who your religion likes.
Ehh fuck existential dread, you exist, therefore you are here. Nothing more nothing less. What you do with life makes that life worth it. So do something, help someone, help many people. Do whatever you want to be honest. You are a human and there are many other fellow humans. So why not help them through hard times.
@@conscientiously be curious. Challenge yourself to go ground zero and discover what you actually believe.
I can’t get past the fact that you suffered through Ben’s entire video. You took one for the home team.
It's been a while since I haven't heard "taking one for the home team" used in a family friendly context
I mean Ben can make some actual good arguments but I have to say he is unmatched at beating someone down to your level and beating them with experience sort of deal.
@@Name-ru1kt- maybe try again - your post is incoherent as written. Who is “your” in your post and what does “…and beating them with experience sort of deal.” mean?
That rant made me so happy. I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way. Fine-tuning falls flat once you realize that, if the big bang brought about an earth where all sentient life forms were clouds of gas that comminicate through hard raves, they'd be telling eachother how specific and fine tuned the world would have to be to allow their existence via dubstep. The world wasn't built for us. We evolved to fit the criteria the world gave.
If anything the world is made for fish or birds!
@@uwuowo214 Crabs perhaps
@thesteelsquid863 Yeah, if the world was made for humans, why does everything turn into crabs, right? XD
(Sorry, had to, although~)
@@CarissaNomadic don't apologize for being right
We are all just byproducts of a world made for crabs, God is a crab.
I’m Brazilian and I was not expecting to hear a biology genius start to speak Portuguese out of nowhere. (His accent is great btw!)
Was not expecting that as well!
I love your videos man. It’s helped me so much in religious literacy and argumentative maturity.
I can properly explain my deconstruction to my parents in a healthy way because of what this channel has taught me, and I can’t thank you enough.
You two are amazing
I find it endlessly entertaining that Ben "Facts don't care about your feelings" Shapiro believes in God and argues against atheism
Ben’s feelings don’t care about facts.
And that he has a show called Debunked.
Explore the world of psychedelics it might open your mind. As of now there will never be a way to convince you until you see something you couldn't imagine in your wildest dreams.
@@centipedekid9824 Ah yes, the way to understand reality is to make use of substances that impair your perception of it.
It's not like there are obvious issues with this approach.
@@thegrouchization well it's fun. Cant deny that. Thats why you'll get 20-life for possessing such things in Texas or Florida.
I found your channel in 2020. You really inspired me to finally accept I am actually an atheist. I grew up in an evangelical cult. For most of my life, I knew it was stuff I didn’t want to agree with, but I was scared. I want to thank you for helping me find my way. I’m still unpacking a lot of cult programming, with therapy. But I’m coming a long way.
Found your channel again and it just reminded me of my journey. I really hope anyone who sees this is doing well. Don’t give up!
would this cult happen to be the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God (UCKG)? Because that place did a number on me growing but thankfully I had philosophy and physics on my side
Glad you were able to escape that!!!! 🎉
As a math postgraduate, I screamed when Shapiro misused Gödel's incompleteness theorems
Omg me too, although I didn't graduate yet. It's a cool theorem, absolutely yucky for him to misuse it that way
People who don't think logically usually hear scientific claims and discoveries and get to the most absurd, unrelated conclusion while claiming there is no other reasonable way to interpret said claim or discovery.
For instance, once this guy told me that Heisenberg's principles proves the existence of God. Because thanks to indetermination we have free will, and the only way to have free will is if God gave it to us.
Yes this was his line of reasoning, no I'm not skipping steps to summarise what he said
"Just because your religion is meaningful to you, does not mean that you have an exclusive claim on meaning". Exactly. I have meaning in my life that I create and it is completely subjective to me. It's like people can't wrap their head around the fact that we still have the ability to create meaning, without a god. I find my lack of belief in a higher power, has pushed me even more to create meaning for myself, and has sparked an even greater interest in the universe.
Oh totally, maybe a meaning like… learning?
But the churches can’t have you learning actively! Or else.. you know… you find out their big charade xD
Yes u can create meaning for yourself but it's pointless.
What is the endgoal? There is none. All of the meaning u can create is fleeting. Not important at all. Because humans aren't important (in terms of the universe from a athiest perspective)
And a lack of faith in god doesn't
Give u a greater interest in the universe.
Don't get me wrong you'll be "like ah what's this and is that what it comes from?"
The reason why i say it doesn't is cause you already rejected a theory based on nothing. You didn't learn enough about religion. Or you didn't learn enough about the universe. (That being said i don't know what you know, so you could prove me wrong)
@@imrane161 ...the end goal is to direct your life toward an end you consider meaningful. This isn't hard to understand. A life well lived is its own reward.
Ben isn't an idiot. He knows exactly who he made the video for, and it's working as intended.
His fanbase is people that think exactly like him, just less eloquently.
He is a jew, most of his fanbase are christians
@@martimsalvador9186 Nothing I said disputes that.
@@titusgray4598 "His fanbase is people who think exactly like him, just less eloquently"
you could say the exact same thing for this channel lol
@@nunyabisniz8047 The important distinction is that Ben Shapiro's content invites _his_ brand of thinking, while GMS's videos invite _any_ thinking. GMS has stated many times, in this video too, that he has nothing against opposing viewpoints (theistic religion) he just wants to invite critical thinking (hence calling himself a "skeptic") and tell people to watch out for manipulative and tribalistic, hatred-inducing, or indoctrinating content, eg. that of Ben Shapiro's.
"I paid for Ben Shapiro’s video about atheism and all I got was disappointment"
What did you expect?
Good material for a video. What did YOU expect?
I think he may have been hoping for something new. This seemed like the same tired arguments aimed at trying to retain members of a shrinking flock.
As I ended up saying today in an unrelated situation: "You can be disappointed without being surprised."
WAP? maybe? I'm an optimist. Sue me.
I would be half expecting an aneurysm.
I always repeat the exact moment I lost any respect for Ben Shapiro: years ago, I gave listening to his podcast a shot. At some point, Anthony Bourdain came up, and Ben said something close to, "And if you don't know who Anthony Bourdain is, he's a guy who goes to garbage cultures and eats their garbage food, and pretends that it's good, but it's really garbage." And that was such a ridiculous, offensive, ignorant statement, so demonstrative of the arrogance and incuriousness and small-mindedness of the speaker, that I didn't care about anything else he had to say about anything ever again.
It's sadly actually genius. I'm 95% on that he knows exactly what he's doing. He uses deceptive reasonable sounding arguments to pull people in that he spreads around but if you go deeper into his stuff he says much more blatant stuff.
This means that the vast majority that only knows him from small clips will believe he is not this extrenist all these "sensitive people" aka critical people make him out to be. But it also gives him a core audience with bad media litteracy that stuck around after the baltent statements that will defend him hard.
The result, average public thinks he aint that bad or even has solid points and two groups that directly oppose eachother, calling him out and defending him. Meaning the average opinion skews to his favour pretty significantly.
Drew may not talk as fast as Ben Shapiro, but he sure is better at elaborating things more clearly than he can
Well articulated bullshit is still bullshit
@@Anicius_ Ben Shapiro is the best example of this.
stop following me sonia
Because Ben has no interest in being clear about such topics. It's deliberate.
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 yes, i meant that as a criticism of shapiro
The great thing about being an atheist is, it takes up so little spare time. That is what religious people don't understand, being an atheist is a non-issue, only when people ask about your beliefs, you answer them: atheist and move on. No books to read, magic spells to learn or special places to visit once week at least.
Cody Johnston, who did cover Shapiro, but has sooo much more thought-provoking Stuff. Hes an 'issue-listing'-kind of RUclipsr, so whetever its Droughts, LGBT, Uvalde or just Joking-Around, he has it all.
Guys, i know this Fanbase (and the Atheist-Community overall) damn-well,
so trust me when i say this Guy is worth checking out even if Global-Problems somehow
are of no Concern for you.
Also, no people to hate just because they do not like your favorite superhero
Man, I wish I as an atheist had cool magic spells to learn. I just do normal people things like learn educational facts
I understand you guys are frustrated towards religion as members in the faith have antagonized you, but please don't lash out with your own ridicule. As Drew has argued before, antagonism on either side is rather harmful and ceases productivity towards useful speculation on the existence of God. Making the joke of "reading magic spells" and "they're angry because I don't like their favorite superhero" only drives Christians away from respectful debate and provides a reason to believe in the antagonism made at your expense. We want to remove hostility among the groups and there are Christians watching these videos trying to learn more about atheism in a healthy manner, please don't turn them away with mockery.
Just to clarify before someone makes an assumption, I am neither Christian nor atheist. I'm anti-theist ironically: I do believe in God, but I do not believe that he is benevolent nor worthy of worship. Regardless, my belief doesn't justify me attacking Christians, Atheists, or any philosophy regarding religion. I ask that anyone reading this remember that the people practicing these beliefs have struggles and empathy just like you. I have seen how political antagonism harms my country and even my family. I ask that we refuse to participate in viewing those of different opinions as bad or stupid, and instead focus on trying to figure out the problems in the world as effectively as we can, and that requires cooperation and variety in thought
"So you're saying you want a divorce?"
10/10, pure gold.
Benny "using my Harvard law education to push my weird beliefs on you that are paid for by fracking billionaires" shepipi
I think he went to Duke, but it doesn't undermine your point.
I think you meant ”trafficking” instead of fracking
if you look up the word fracking and see its effects on the environment you may see he likely intended to say fracking@@TheRealBillix cheers
For a hot sec I misread that as "fucking billionaires"
like... when flaming homosexual pdf file atheists claim that men can give birth and nowhere in history has this been true?
The times I wondered what it would be like to be religious the most are when I have been struggling, to me it seems like a very powerful coping mechanism for pain, suffering and isolation.
Christian here, and I must say, I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Haven’t seen too many GMS videos, but every time I watch, I feel like a better educated and sharper critical thinker. Love how you’re able to point out bad specific religious arguments while simultaneously being extremely respectful of theists as a whole. Also, that quick dive into the origin and mechanics of biological communication was fascinating.
Are you planning to watch more GMS videos?
Well said. Fellow Christian here too.
Ben Shapiro and his ilk give us all a bad name.
So it’s up to all of us to fight their damaging nonsense.
I really desperately need the "good Christians" to stand up to the "bad Christians" in a bigger, louder way. They are publicly calling for the ERADICATION of queer people, and I have not seen even one single Christian say "hey, this isn't okay."
To be silent while your flock attempts to ERADICATE people makes all Christians absolutely 100% complicit. You cannot and must not allow them to parade about as the mascots for Jesus... To remain silent is to agree with their actions and be completely fine being lumped in with them.
Totally agree!!! Thanks for your comment ❤
Always love seeing rational, sensible Christians out in the wild. Y'all are what keep me from losing faith (there's some joke I could make there) in Christians as a whole
Love from a Satanist, lmao
I hate it when people come to conclusions without any basis of knowledge. As someone that’s trans and an atheist, former evangelical Protestant, I often hear, “I’m sorry that your church rejected you, but they’re not all that way”. What they don’t understand at that point is that my coming out as trans and my leaving the church to actually study religion on my own are 2 events that are separated by about a decade, they’re completely unrelated.
@Robert Lemon Yup
@Future Pants yeah as someone still part of religion. dogma is the bane of it all. which is why I appreciate people that have seen past it, and am still saddened by people who are stuck in their ways. When the times are changing and the pope himself has said lgbtq+ people are all children of god, and i still see people reject that and cause pain to others.. its just sad
edit: faith is supposed to help people and if it doesn't then that's not the faith i want in this world. I'm still optimistic though.. still holding hope that it'll get better for us all
Similar here, except I'm gay rather than trans. I was raised Catholic, then fell in with evangelical Protestantism. I suppose a difference between us is that while I eventually left all forms of organized religion, believing it a human construct designed to further the agenda of human power, I just couldn't find it within myself to leave God.
The open stereotyping is incredible. They just walk right up and say things like "I'm sorry you were mistreated by those in the church but God isn't like that." I didn't stop believing in God because someone was mean to me, I stopped believing cause there's no reason for me to believe. There's no proof for it and a mountain of proof against it.
@@TheGeekRex What "proof" do you have that God doesn't exist? While I agree that the evidence of the existence of God is up for debate, there's really no actual "proof" either way. One can only interpret the evidence in ways which support their worldviews, which _proves_ nothing. Anyone who embraces logic and science agrees that one simply cannot prove a negative until one knows every incidence where the phenomenon in question is hypothesized to be possible and finds it to be negative in every instance. This is not possible for human beings, who have both finite intelligence and finite lifespans, so, ironically enough, the only entity who could prove God's nonexistence is....God.
Your generosity to Ben is admirable. I couldn't have been as kind.
Ben using the Turtle analogy to disprove Atheism... when the same question can be asked about God. Ok, so God exists, and always has... but how did he get there? Was he created by a greater God? Was that God also created by another God... is it Gods all the way down?
Well think for just one minute. The claim is that GD made the world and everything in it. That includes logic and reason. He therefore exists outside of logic and reason. We, who are bound by logic, cannot comprehend that. He doesn’t have to make sense. He doesn’t have to be provable and understandable by the human mind. Science does.
@@gloriouslizard9594he kinda does though if anyone wants to have any kind of legitimacy when they judge people for something "sinful". Science is provable, God is not and as far as followers such as yourself, doesn't have to be. What is more likely to be believed, what has been proven or what has been used historically to control people en masse? As far back as the end of the dark ages when the church would only allow members of the church to read the Bible, didn't really teach anyone how to read, and instead told them what the Bible said, taking indulgences. Leading to the 95 Theses by Martin Luther detailing his problems with the church of the time.
@@gloriouslizard9594 Which discredits every claim of divine enlightenment ever, as no human ever could comprehend the true intentions of an creator, or if there even is a coherent truth. It could be anything.
@@gloriouslizard9594 What does it even mean for something to exist outside logic and reason? That just sounds like a weak excuse to ignore inconsistencies.
@@gloriouslizard9594 but if he can't be understandable by the human mind, how do you know that? Did he told you?
You are a stronger man than I am. Simply listening to his voice for more than a minute is impossible! But to listen to what he thinks is simply inconceivable.
I don't know if I don't understand Ben because he is just an idiot with a good vocabulary who throws out illogical word salads, or if I'm actually dumb... I strongly suspect Ben is just a well educated idiot...
half of his arguments are like "let's say that I'm right. in this situation, you are wrong."
"So you're saying you want a divorce?"
Perfection. I don't know if that was scripted or not, and I don't care. What I do care about is that both you and your wife, Drew, are amazing at killing pans, as well as deadpan delivery. So that's cool.
That was hilarious! 🤣
Drew isn't his wife, that's Taylor. The guy is named Drew, like Drew Barrymore. The lady is named Taylor, like Taylor Lautner. Did that help? Alrighty. Excellent.
@@seionne85 This deserves to be the highest rated comment.
@@DefectivePieceofChalk Yes, I know that. I used Drew because I was addressing Drew.
@@DefectivePieceofChalk do you know how commas work, Zoidberg?
I freaking love Drew's wife answering him with "So you're saying you want a divorce." Great stuff!
It was a bit predictable, though I suppose husbands making "so you want me to beat your ass?" jokes a la Bill Burr is on the cards now, to be fair. Women gain from and initiate most divorces, men gain from and initiate more physical violence... equal opportunity and all that.
It really was a laugh out loud moment..
I literally laughed. It’s something my husband and I would joke to one another.
I wasn't ready for that, so funny moment
Ok I'm sorry what 😭😭😭, religious trauma recovery groups actually exist? I talked to my therapist about this, and they said they couldn't find any so I just lost all hope 😭. How does one find a group like that? Please does anyone know 🙏
Contact Recovering from Religion! They should be able to help you find a group. I link their site in every description
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic From the bottom of my heart, thank you so much!!! ❤
Ben has one goal: to obfuscate. He doesn’t want his followers to understand what he’s saying, and by deliberately confusing uneducated, barely-literate people, he can mobilize them however he pleases.
So pretty much exactly what religious leaders have been doing ever since religion first showed it's ugly head.
Well, he's also a grifter, it pays to be as vague as possible to appeal as widely as possible to his ingroup. Maybe more people will talk about it and pay him to pray into their insecurities.
I understood 3 out of those 1200 words and I agree with them! The other 1197 must be genius!
Same as Peterson
Eschew obfuscation.
I love how Ben uses Ayn Rand-a quasi-religious cult leader who demanded her followers worship her as an omniscient super-being-as an example of atheism rejecting religion.
What kills me is, isn't Rand the kind of person people like Shapiro aspire to be?
@@arutka2000 idk about him specifically but there is certainly a hell of a lot of overlap in the fans
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 I'd agree with that. I would like to amend my statement though, in regards to Sharpie.
I don't think he believes the shit he's selling.
@@arutka2000 hes let the veil slip a few times, benny boy is a religious zealot and that drives basically everything else.
I first noticed when watching the some more news video about Ben titled "perhaps Ben Shapiro shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone anywhere anymore"
And Ayn Rand's work went on to inspire further founders of atheistic religions, most famously Anton LaVey and the LaVeyan Satanists. There's a joke among occult shitposters (yes those exist) that goes something like "Roses are red, lamps attract moths, Anton LaVey is just Ayn Rand for goths."
I'm not the first to point out that apologists, like Shapiro, direct their comments at their followers, not at non-believers. The aim is to make their followers believe that everything outside their religion is bad, scary and probably the work of the devil. In that way, the flock will be silent and compliant whilst being fleeced, repeatedly. Indeed, they will volunteer their own fleece and think it is God's will.
Of course, but it doesn't hurt to see it ourselves and know how to push back against it.
@@Rawnblade13 Thank you. And I totally agree. My point was to highlight the true motives of preachers and apologists, not to suggest we should not be aware and, as you say, push back. I have spent the last thirty-five years doing just that, in my own small way.
Apologists who target atheists become atheists based on my experience
@@Outspoken.Humanist you know, that pushing back is exactly, what the preachers and apologists want us to do? Their reaction to their sheep, when confronted, will be like this: "You see? This is what we were talking about! Fear them!"
Wanna have good relationships with christians as an atheist? Don´t talk about religion. Ever.
@@jaya1000 I would like that to be true but, personally, I have seen no evidence of it.
All the apologists I have encountered over many years, online and in person, all share one trait, they are dishonest. Some are self-deceiving but most are well aware of the tenuousness of their position and continue to lie because they have a vested interest. Often financial gain.
as a catholic (not very religious though) every time someone says that they have proof that god exists I just roll my eyes, I do it twice if there's money in the middle, I believe in god but is pefectly understandable that others don't, at the end of the day, no one has the answers, and my personal experience, but for me, is more about the message of love rather than "he exists therefore you have to believe in him"
My favourite response to the fine tuning argument is ‘if things were different they would be different’ - there is no reason to believe that the universe couldn’t have been different - without life, or perhaps with life forms even better suited to their environments than us. One of the premises of the argument seems to be that our universe is the best it could’ve been - a lottery win. Why is that true?
The universe must harbor life. If it didn't, there would be no way to perceive the universe to know that it didn't harbor life.
@@sunnyisabunny1479 100% correct lol, we for some reason though sentience = “i’m better than everything else around me”
Cue wars, 4,000 religions made, billions of lives lost, abuse, murder, rape, molestation… and viola! You have the Church :)
edit: sorry i misread your comment
Yep. The argument presuposes that we HAD to exist so the universe HAD to be this way. Even thought there's isn't any reason to think that
@@sunnyisabunny1479 what if all anmails are self aware but just dont have the integlence to better there horrible situations
The intro was really funny. What I love, though, is how Drew then honestly and in good faith deconstructs Ben's arguments completely rationally, without relying on slander, bias, or a sense of intellectual superiority - all tools which Ben likes to use himself. Espeically that last one is one I tend to fall into myself, which is why I find it inspirational to see Drew navigating these arguments so perfectly, without indulging in bad form like that.
I love how I had to grow up being mildly opressed for being an atheist, just to have Ben Shapiro try to claim he's being oppressed by us.
Like dude, we don't even have any real means of organization. Most of us are just trying to exist.
We're not even a group. Is like trying to put together all non-sport fans and claiming we all like the same things.
@@michaelmcdoesntexist1459 You can easilly group all non-sports fans by what they have in common. A lack of interest in sports. Sure there won't be a lot of overlap in other interests or lack of interests, but that's not the point, is it? You may want to identify and group everyone with brown hair for some reason, and they would have equally little in common while it still being rational to identify that common trait.
Honestly I find this whole uncertainty and weirdness about grouping or associating atheists very strange. In many other forms of categorizations it's perfectly normal to group things based on a "lack of something". It's not uncommon elsewhere. Makes me think of how ancient mathmaticians never used or thought of negative numbers.
That being said, atheists generally aren't part of intentionally organized groups, because there just isn't any reason to be. Which is kind of my point, anyway.
@@michaelferrum708 I said we don't have means of organization because we aren't even a group. We don't need to organize, we don't share anything. Just because you don't like sports doesn't mean you like the same things all other non-sport fans enjoy. And if we are making groups of people based on what they like (read: believe) there is no basis to put atheists on a single bag.
@@michaelmcdoesntexist1459 I'm aware that is what you are saying, you did not need to repeat it and ignore everything I just said.
I'm not confused by *what* you are saying. I'm confused by *why* you are saying it. It doesn't make sense, even in context of the non-sports fan anology. Let's call them sports unenthusiasts. We are literally talking about a group of people (sports unenthusiasts) that share a commonality (sports unenthusiasm ) and we all know which group of people we are talking about. Sounds like a identifiable categorization to me. A "group" in otherwords.
@@michaelferrum708 which is absolutely useless. At this point you can group baseball players with moles as not-scaly animals and try to organize them. Semantically true is just a nicer way to say nonsensical
Ben Shapiro is the pinnacle of saying anything to get a reaction
Tells us you know nothing about Ben with out actually telling us lol
@dr.mund0339
Ben regularly beefs with Taylor swift just bc she isn't married with kids😂 we know all we need to know. He's fuckin pathetic.
@@dr.mund0339 Poor sad little boy. You'll grow up one day.
@@Void84276 o another person who knows nothing about Ben shaprio? Lol sad good luck growing up Lil fella
"Being a religious believer is a consistent struggle with the logic of the universe."
Game over, man. Game over.
Ben keeps accidentally admitting he's wrong because he neither understands his own position nor that of his opposition.
How so? Belief is not dependent on logic to endure. This is a game without end as that contested can be neither proven or disproven.
@@kevinarnold8634 that is what faith is all about but he just admitted a contradiction to his slogan.
I actually like this argument - it's like a test from god - I created the universe to be bafflingly inconsistent with the religions I allowed to exist. Just to f*ck with you I guess, god's get bored
@@kevinarnold8634 Because religion has it's limitations, Science is in a constant evolution. a continuous flow of change of knowledge as more information is stored, proven/disproven. Religion doesn't have that, religion is stagnated as it is since is fixed on scriptures and ancient texts.
2:35 - 4:18 14:06 36:58 *Reliance on stereotypes*
4:19 - 9:27 44:37 *Smearing the outgroup, Conflation of terms, and Homogeneity Bias*
10:52 - 14:04 24:12 *Appeal to human Intuition*
15:33 - 17:41 *Morale frameworks*
17:42 - 20:45 *Choices of self*
20:47 - 27:23 35:23 44:37 *Logical valid arguments; Incomplete*
27:24 - 35:10 *Evolution Signaling and Appeal to Pseudoscience*
38:05 - 39:18 50:39 *Unsourced Claims*
39:19 - 40:54 *Snuck/False premise*
40:55 - 44:36 *Non-Sequitur/God(s) in the gaps* GMS has what I assume to be a personal speech till this: 46:46 I personally don't believe most of it, but I respect it.
46:46 - 50:38 *Oversimplifying the issue*
53:51 *Ending statements*
up
thank you so much!
up
@@flair4146 With pleasure!
Up (thank you)
up (affectionate)
Ben Shapiro: "Facts don't care about your feelings!"
Me: Huh. Ironic.
The first time I was presented with that "argument," I replied, "I don't feel one way or the other about it [topic]. And, wait, are you claiming that 'facts' have cognizant agency?!😄" He ended our conversation shortly thereafter.
@@J5L5M6 Even at MInute 1, Drew is very funny, making me wanna recommend Cody Johnston here on RUclips, who did cover Shapiro, but has sooo much more thought-provoking Stuff... Hes an 'issue-listing'-kind of RUclipsr, so whetever its Drought, LGBT+, Uvalde or just Joking-Around, he has it all.
Oh, the guy who supports genocide cant actually use logic? How surprising.
"looks a lot like an intelligent creator" isn't a fair claim at all. First, it presupposes what a creator's design would look like -which directly contradicts Shapiro's claim that humans can't know the mind of a god. Moreover -no it doesn't. It doesn't resemble the creation in Genesis, it doesn't resemble the Sistine Chapel, and -as far as I know -it doesn't resemble the narrative of any creation faith on earth.
So the first part of Meier's claim is absurd from the go.
For the typically indoctrinated viewer the sistine chapel cieling depicts adam and god.
However the sistine chapel painting actually depicts God as a BRAIN. Michelangelo was such a genius that it took centuries for the public to see and cpmprehend what he knew so clearly so long ago. That God is a product of the Human Brain.
GMS: Um... i no longer believe in god
Wife: *I sleep*
GMS: I bought Ben Schapiro's course
Wife: I want a divorce NOW
The flat delivery of “So you’re saying you want a divorce” made me laugh so hard, thank you both 😂
As soon as he said that, I knew a good response was coming. I had a good laugh.
As a Brazilian, your accent was great, I understood everything! Really well done!!
I love how you approach these topics with intelligence and compassion and aren't smug or condescending. I imagine that your patience and clarity are very helpful to those still trying to shake free of religious indoctrination
I think learning human psychology is the best way to escape it.
I got to the point I am only wrong a few times every 100k guesses.
Videos like this are so incredibly important for the next generation in America. Double speak and political pundits presenting themselves as officials on science and psychology are rampant like a disease in this country. Every video that takes the time to deliberately unwind their deliberate misinformation is another brick on which our children can stand upon.
I'll be turning 32 soon but I could also use some fair grounding.
Wow very true good point
I told my wife before we were engaged that I didn’t believe in soul mates. Then I described my being a determinist.
She then pointed out that that means, technically, we are soul mates, because we were always meant to be.
You're not soul mates, because incorporeal clones of ourselves don't live inside of us, or exist at all.
@@OG-ColorfulAbyss. What a romantic you are.
@@thepretentiousgentleman more of an accuracy-ist
@@OG-ColorfulAbyss. The word “pedant” might save you some letters.
Or Literalist.
@@thepretentiousgentleman well, literally speaking "literalist" would only save me one letter lol
As soon as you started talking about in group bias, I knew an ad for Ground News was coming. I'm glad it exists to show how reference points change the way folks see the news
It's possibly the only "youtube ad segment" that I haven't found anything bad about it
One of Ben's many completely illogical statements was "To question the motivation of god is not enough to deny his existence any more than a child could question his parent's existence because they allowed bad things to happen."
The fundamental problem with his silly statement is that a child can't deny their parent's existence because their parents are there and can be seen, touched, and communicated with verbally in a 2-way conversation that can actually be observed by outsiders. God can't be observed, touched, seen, or communicated with in any way someone outside the conversation could observe (prayer is not a valid communication).
And one's parents are clearly not all-powerful, whereas it is claimed that God IS all-powerful, therefore letting bad things happen is a responsibility that rests solely on His shoulders, therefore it's a perfectly valid criticism of God.
@@Methuselah5 I believe bad things happen because of us, not God. To put it simply, God created human beings with free will, and because we have free will we sin against him. This is what brought bad things (sin) into the world. If you love someone, then you let them make their own choices. Just to provide an opinion on the subject :)
@@craisin7120 Let's run with the parent-child analogy. A good parent ABSOLUTELY prevents their children from making their own choices. If your child wants to run off a cliff or drink bleach, wouldn't you prevent them?
@@craisin7120 I appreciate you participating in good faith. I’d just like to say that I disagree with the idea that if you love someone you let them do whatever they want. I love my sister but if I came home to find her about to stab my mother, I’d have to intervene. This doesn’t diminish my love for either my mom or sister. In my view, the same logic would apply to a creator deity watching a murder go down.
@@craisin7120 If you love your toddler, you wouldn't stick a knife into their playpen. And then throw them to burn in the chimney if they cut themselves. This is akin to (but not as bad as) God planting the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which causes death, in the Garden of Eden. And then casting unbelievers into hell. Adam and Eve would still have had free will to eat any other fruit, and to walk with God or not, without the ridiculous temptation. Also, since God set the parameters of this creation knowing ahead of time what humans would choose, it becomes his fault for setting the initial conditions that would end up with evil (Isaiah 45:7). Look into Theological Fatalism, which shows that if God is all-knowing, humans can't actually have free will.
Aquinas' Five Proofs is like a longer, unnecessarily more complicated version of the cosmological argument. And it's still just as bad. Well, it's slightly better because it doesn't immediately jump to a God.
Agreed. I would’ve used WLC’s formulation of the Kalam because it’s easier to communicate and understand, but I don’t think his goal there was educating the audience.
-Matter didn’t create anti matter
-Anti matter didn’t create matter
(Both of them were present at the time of big bang)
-Both of them didn’t create themselves.
-Both of them came from an unimaginable source, that unimaginable source created matter and antimatter (everything) thats why it is known as “the creator” of everything.
------,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,----
- that unimaginable source/creator has created sin and virtue which are opposite to each other,
- “logic” confirmed that every action has its own reaction, the reaction of sin is different than the reaction of virtue,
- the creator has created prophets to let us know about each and every detail of sin and virtue, also about their reactions,
Thank you
Yes, the funny thing is all these "arguments" can be just as useful for every other deity.
@@rexbettencourt3800 That irony sails clear over the heads of conservatives, like Shapiro, who start out with their conclusion and firmly believe in it. As such, anything they can use to validate their preconceived belief is valuable to them and will be used as such -- and no amount of introspection will get in the way of that.
Only the first three verify that, and the third one is the best formulation of the cosmological argument.
“Atheism claims…….” Ugh. There are so many breaks in Mr. Shapiro’s logic here it’s disappointing.
Care to elaborate or just whine about it?
@@906-x3w Atheism is not a monolithic organization with a universal belief system. Saying "Atheism claims" and going off about something like morality, evolution, or the meaning of life is nonsense. It's like saying "Football fans claim" as if all football fans are the same and all hold the same beliefs.
It's also worth mentioning that most atheists don't have a perogitive to prove their beliefs.
They can choose to, but it's entirely possible to live as an atheist without once engaging in any kind of religous discourse.
@@906-x3w I spent about 20 minutes trying to find the kindest most empathetic rational way to respond to this. Came to the conclusion that since you categorize my comment as “whining”, you aren’t really someone who’s seriously interested in hearing my point of view. So it seems your first impression of me is that I’m a whiner, and my first impression of you is you’re rude. no need for us to engage further.
@@InteGritti You didn't have to, someone already made your point above.
I think its important that people like Ben realize that actual atheists who care about facts and logic are critical of religion, but not hateful.
And also that there are plenty of atheists who give religion little thought at all. And still somehow manage to live within society’s moral framework. Amazing.
To be a theist is to not care what is true.
It wouldn't be profitable to do that, so unfortunately, I don't think it's gonna happen :(
but I am hateful of being brain dead on purpose, and that is religion.
@@desynchonosisdragon9108I disagree, you can be a theist and care about what’s true. Part of the idea of a lot of religions is there isn’t proof for them, hence why faith exists. Unfortunately there are far too many theists that don’t care about what’s true.
For someone so well known for facts and logic, Ben Shapiro does go well out of his way to justify his feelings.
he's not well known for *using* facts and logic so much as he's well known for *talking about* facts and logic
Well, it's part of a lawjers job to justify.
He's not known for facts or logic. He's well known for being a snowflake that gets butthurt whenever someone hurts his feelings. And his feelings are hurt by facts and logic that adhere to the reality we live in.
What I love about the counter argument to the ‘fine tuning’ argument is that in order to determine how likely our universe of cosmic flukes into happen, we have to count how many universes don’t have them, and therefore don’t exist. We have to count how many universes don’t exist.
Essentially, the only reason we exist is because if we didn’t, we wouldn’t
We can't even compare the universes that DO exist, because, well... we've got a sample size of one. What are the odds that [some constant or factor of this universe] is true? Apparently 100% from what we can actually observe. Fine tuning can't even get off the ground if tuning isn't possible, and we have no basis to say that it is (or isn't) with only one universe to observe.
It's a non falsifiable argument that still uses circular reasoning for the supposed existence of a god. Why is there so much fine tuning in the universe? Well, it must be because of god. Why else would there be fine tuning in the universe? It must be because of god, etc.
Exactly
fun fact, if you roll a die 1000 times, the combination of rolls is mathematically impossible.
However, the likelihood that ANY combination results is 1.
The real truth is that what's actually impossible here isn't the outcome itself, but rather that someone predicts the exact result of 1000 consecutive dice rolls.
Yeah, it's trying to determine probably from a sample size of one.
"Being a religious believer is a constant struggle with the logic of the universe". I think Ben means a struggle AGAINST the logic of the universe lol
"There is NO meaning OF life. There is meaning IN life."
--- Dan Barker
I've held a certain sentiment in my head for a while now, that being .. Well, there isn't really a set purpose in life, it's simply whatever you make of it. Frankly I find the lack of a God and afterlife to be liberating. Not needing to live up to some deific standards, but instead, living as how I wish to live. It's .. Nice
I admire your optimism. Everything Shapiro has ever said has been a complete waste of oxygen, so I envy your dedication to trying to find something worthwhile. Especially since a 55 minute Shapiro video is about 3 hours long once you slow it down to a range humans can hear.
Oh, that's like the only thing I like about Shapiro personally, at least he delivers his vacuous bullshit promptly.
@@camipco Like a baloon farting?
"if you don't speak Portuguese, you cannot access the information i just transmitted"
Me, speaks Spanish and understood it just fine: oh how the turn tables...
Excellent use of really engaging sarcasm about Tye behaviour of “extreme” atheists - thank you for making me smile about a subject that so often makes me despair of the state of humanity.