NHS gender care: What are the political implications of the Cass review? | The New Statesman podcast
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
- The Cass review into NHS gender services for children raises questions about how Labour and the Conservatives will respond.
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We’ve been digging around in our virtual mailbag and have brought a couple of your questions to discuss.
One listener asks: What are the political implications of the Cass report and will it affect how British politicians approach the transgender conversation?
Anoosh Chakelian is joined by Hannah Barnes and Freddie Hayward to discuss how Rishi Sunak and Wes Streeting have responded.
Read Hannah Barnes' article here: www.newstatesman.com/politics...
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What about access to dental care millions of people can’t access a dentist under the NHS. What is being done about this, patients are resulting to pulling their own teeth out. Why’s no one talking about this
Nobody cares. You want healthy teeth be pro active and pay dental insurance....my dentist who kicked me out told me this.
In fact most dental professionals care. We aren’t all totally profit driven. However, we cannot operate dental practices in an effective, safe and regulated way within the NHS UDA payment system. Politicians say they want to improve the NHS. When it comes down to changing a system that fails patients and ‘fixes’ NHS fees within 5 bands which are insufficient for everything except the most basic of care politicians don’t do anything - Dentists cannot do good work.
@sullivanrachael I have a question 👀 Why was dentistry never incorporated into the NHS with the rest of the medical system? 🤔 also not trying to start an argument lol just always wondered 👀
Didn't know gender clinics did teeth, Thats pretty handy dandy!
@@CassyCat4gender clinics don't do teeth. All though they may aswell do peoples teeth in since they tell crazy people their beliefs are true.
I can't help noting that some folks seem to have lost sight of one major part of the Cass report, which was an acknowledgement that the "toxic atmosphere around this debate is not helpful and must stop." Dr Cass pointedly said that there was a lack of solid evidence "on both sides". Which means that whilst there is no strong scientific evidence for transition, there is also no real evidence against it - and this represents a colossal problem because it means that we really don't know... It also seems likely that as with other complex medical issues like cancer, there will ultimately never be a single one size fits all answer.
Now, cards on the table, I at the age of 64, and having transitioned and had the fullest possible medical alterations a very long time ago, in my early twenties, am obviously of the opinion that it was a positive move for me... but even I wouldn't go so far as to assume that the same would be true for someone else. However by the same token you can't assume it isn't either - so while we do need some better quality research pretty quickly, you also can't go around effectively making treatment so difficult to access that it is effectively banned. That isn't any better than an undisciplined free for all.
TLDR : We need balance - AND as Dr Cass so rightly said, we need to get people's private complex medical problems OUT of the reductive media spotlight, and back into the privacy of the consulting room. The toxic political debating and mud slinging on both sides of this issue really needs to stop.
The Netherlands seems to have quite a reasonable approach. They do start medically transitioning some teenagers. But only with thorough assessment. Not "affirmative care".
One factor is that if a child has openly expressed gender dysphoria from a young age, despite being mentally healthy. Then that seems to be a strong predictor that those feelings will persist throughout their life.
We should be able to make a distinction between those children and, say, autistic girls who suddenly express gender dysphoria after several of their peers do.
But yes, we also need more research which is driven by medical science, and not expressly anti-rational sociopolitical ideologies like _Queer Theory._
@andybrice2711 definitely, my son just left school and it's has become a trend to be LGBTQ+ so this makes it more difficult for the people who are genuine. I do believe nothing surgical should be done untill 18 but that is just my opinion.
You weren’t a child forced to take puberty blockers were you? That’s the controversy, not how you went about it, what you did was the correct way to deal with your issue, you were an adult and understood the ling term consequences. Kids aren’t getting that option which is what people object to.
❤❤❤
Yeah who from 😂
So The New Statesman is finally covering this. Only ten years too late.
also worth pointing out that they disregarded any non double blind studies which all of the studies on puberty blockers aren't due to it being unethical to double blind them.
And also impossible- you can nit hide the effects of hormones
This seems like a reasonable criticism of the report. Not everything can be a double blinded randomized controlled trial.
Though I do think the quality of research is generally low. And many studies have been heavily warped by political pressure. For example via corrupted ethics committees.
The parents of those children are complicit.
@@andybrice2711 being unable to do high quality research doesn't make the research you can do high quality.
@@nighttrain1236 Yes. Though I would argue somewhat for a Bayesian reasoning approach whereby you can make some educated presumptions based on incomplete data.
But for drastic and permanent medial interventions on children, we need a much higher threshold of evidence than we've seen used so far.
These issues haven’t been a part of my life however I have the utmost empathy for everyone who finds themselves coming to terms with issues around gender.
My concern regarding children and gender identity has always been prescribing puberty blockers which result in irreversible changes affecting fertility.
Children are impressionable and often caught up in the latest craze, celebrity lifestyles, fashion, technology etc, which poses the question as to how deeply they feel the need to change gender.
I hope that this will not lead to sourcing on the black market .
My little sister was prescribed puberty blockers for precocious puberty when she was 8, in the 90s.
Why is it suddenly a danger? Should she not have recieved them? I need to have a proper read of this review before passing more comment, really. And have a wee dig into funding biases and the like, as well as Dr Cass themselves. And, no, I'm not a conspiracy bloke, it's just an important thing to do.
Good point. We have longitudinal data as to the efficacy of puberty blockers, just not as much for use in trans youth as to cis youth. And having looked into her, its very clear she does have some Bias. She advised on anti trans legislation in the USA and follows anti trans groups online.
What i haven't seen acknowledged enough is the difference between Good Evidence and the Best Evidence. Just because no gold standard or even high standard evidence is available does not mean that decisions are not evidence-based. If the only available evidence is of a low standard, it is still the best evidence, and doctors can't just sit on their hands until more data appears. Doctors may not abandon their patients.
It's very telling of the bias of Cass to complain about lack of evidence but then recommend we make gaining evidence harder by restricting trans healthcare for those under 25
This is a very misinformed and misleading statement. You're spreading falsehood.
They have rolled back the use of puberty blockers as standard clinical practice but it is still allowed for clinical trials. The only children receiving puberty blockers are going to be those in clinical trials: which are happening for the establishment of evidence.
Just to make you aware there are less than 100 under sixteens receiving puberty blockers in the UK…some of which are prescribed these for very serious medical issues that require said treatment…just for perspective.
I don’t think anyone would have any objection to anyone getting puberty blockers if it’s needed for health reasons but if it’s needed for mental health reasons, which gender dysphoria is, then do not give them under any circumstances. It’s terrible and often the children regret any kind of transition when older and the suicide rate actually increases after surgery etc and puberty blockers can’t just be stopped and have no damage done, it affects so many things which can’t be fixed if puberty Is stopped.
How did you come to figure off a 100 kids,Great your facts right
@@nicola7917 The figure was quoted in the Telegraph, 26/11/2023.
But aren’t there thousands more on the waiting list? It makes sense to review the evidence before we ramp up treatment.
@@andybrice2711the waiting list is 30 years long in some areas
Took a long time for the final report to appear but whoever in NHS England drove this inquiry’s commission and selecting Dr Cass, deserves our thanks for a report that needs to be read and heeded worldwide. The real worry is closer to home, that the NHS in Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland will find some extenuating circumstances to delay or ignore any part of this report and fail to implement it in full. Particularly important in Scotland, where the Sandyford Clinic is still pursuing WPATH principles and prescribing puberty blockers to children. All the Scottish government has done so far historic knowledge that Cass has been published, well in England the Tavistock facility has been formally closed.
The fact that puberty blockers haven't been suspended in precocious puberty cases and the fact that the Cass report is at odds with the global standards of trans health care suggests this is a result of political implications. As someone working in mental health, young trans children are suicidal because they don't expect access to these services until their early 20s at best as it is because of the waiting lists. This feels like it has less to do with protecting children and more to prevent the existence of trans people who haven't experienced the wrong puberty.
@@Cabal_Therapisthow can puberty that correlates with a persons sex be wrong?
A person born with XY chromosomes can never undergo puberty of those born with XX.
@@Cabal_Therapist I wish you had a louder voice, eh. This whole subject's being thrown about and played with as a political football for too long now. This whole idea that there's a lack of research is quite baffling, really.
The Cass report also recommended double blind trials of puberty blockers. Like lying to children while giving them fake hormones. The academic backlash was incredible
Meanwhile there are cancer patients waiting for treatment for years with cancelled surgeries and no access to medication. Huge waiting times and backlogs, people are unable to get an appointment at their GPs, no dental treatment availability etc etc. Wtf is going on in this country where this is news. NHS funding needs to be allocated to into saving lives, not for pre-pubescent children that dont know if they want to be a girl or boy. It's insanity
Didn't know gender clinics treated cancer patients huh
@CassyCat4 everything I've said has literally just gone straight over the top of your head. The NHS is for treating those that are genuinely ill and for saving lives, not Gender clinics or puberty blocking medication. The fact this is even being an issue that makes news headlines with money spent for this Cass report to be conducted is an absolute joke
I dont think a cancer patient could be helped by a gender clinic 💀☠
YOU ARE MIXING CRAP THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTEHR., STOP COMPARING STRAWBERRIES AN DPORK LOIN!!!
INFORM YOURSLEF!!! FUNDS FOR CANCER ALRE ALWAYS THERE, THE PROBLEM IS THTA ITS SEEMS IT IS M ORE CONVENIENT FOR BIG PHARMA TO PRETEND TO CURE IT RATHER THAN ACTUALLY HELPING PATIENTS.
The agenda..
There are many ways to cover this issue and many people you could have invited to talk about it.
Does your choice of contributor reflect an editorial position by The Spectator, or can we expect to hear other voices?
Contributer? Hannah Barnes is an associate editor of The New Statesman.
What about the cancer patients who can't afford medication, many people with serious conditions are dying because of the waiting list, not getting the treatment on time.
It's not a dichotomy, both services struggling to meet demand are symptoms of the same problem unfortunetly.
@@assses-3216also trans healthcare is cheaper, it costs like £400 a year per person for HRT while some cancer meds can cost thousands for the NHS
As a physicist, I have to admit I'm not an expert in biology or neurology, but the Cass Review appears to disregard the positive results from 101 of 103 studies, citing improper evidence in those studies due to lack of a control group/double blind test - presumably because that would be incredibly unethical, and not to mention impossible since you can't have a double blind trial if the effects would be clear (starting or not starting puberty/transition), it would be too obvious who was the control group. This disregard of prior studies for lacking a control group then it seems to me, to be a wildly reckless thing, especially since Dr. Cass then goes on to reccomend hormone therapy/puberty blockers be restricted based on her review. The data from those studies was not worthless. There are many times in science when we have insufficient data, but in my field (astronomy), we do the best we can with the data we have, and then try to get better data. JWST can see further than Hubble, we didn't give up on space telescopes because Hubble was limited. That's a poor analogy, but I hope it gets the point accross. If Dr. Cass was a serious scientist and not politically motivated, she should have concluded her report by designing a pilot scheme or test program that would enable the evidence to be collected, instead of advocating for policy changes. It's a transparent attack on political grounds and anyone with any scientific literacy should be able to appreciate that.
If you think science can justify doctors mutilating people with mental illnesses, you are deeply lost
💯
Her taking advice from advocates of conversion therapy shows that there was never a possibility of an unbiased report
Completely agree (engineer). Whilst its obviously critically important to ensure the best possible evidence base, eg by initiating a trial as proposed. I am not sure there has been any consideration that by stopping all therapy in the meantime could cause even greater harm to children. Off label drug prescriptions are made by doctors all the time, in this exact scenario.
Ignoring double blind studies concerns me too. It also strikes me as pretty harmful/unethical to force traumatised young people to take pills for an extended period not knowing if they are placebos or pills that will profoundly change their body.
To be fair for the average voter it's a matter for the caring professions and it is not on our urgent agenda of stuff to get fixed urgently by the incoming government.
It’s certainly not on the scale of the dentist problem in this country or the waiting lists, then we have immi gration?! The latter being partly the cause of the former issues.
Child abuse using my tax is right at the top of my list
Then getting Queer Theory out of all schools
@@Eleventhearlofmarsor the pot holes, I've never seen the roads in such a bad state.
@@Eleventhearlofmarsimmigration is keeping the NHS alive, there's never been any evidence that immigration harms the working class
@Eleventhearlofmars while it's not an easy fix dentistry can be sorted with some thoughtful legislation licencing to practice and of course money Dentist are highly money driven after all.
It's curious that Cass has disregarded the vast majority of studies in this area because she considered them to be of low quality. But at the same time, makes recommendations which are likely to become policy, that don't have a good evidence base themselves.
When your introducing a new and ill tested method to treat an issue, the onus is on you to prove its effective enough. There aren't enough long term studies for us to make accurate conclusions, and much of the evidence we do have is alarming enough for us to want these issues to be treated seriously and we need more studies before we unleash a treatment on vulnerable children. We aren't going to overthrow the way things are done without any real good evidence to do so, especially with the dangers involved. 70% of the public share this view, introducing this treatment without conclusive evidence and with massive public disapproval would be nothing but pandering to activists
@@lewis123417 70% of the public may well share this view, but a far lower percentage will be property informed on the matter, gaining most of their information from trans-hostile media stories.
Puberty blockers are not a trans-specific drug and have been used to treat precocious puberty for three decades, and there's no plan to stop prescribing them in this instance. So to specifically prevent them being used for trans children, when there's 30 years worth of data of their safety profile, is quite clearly inconsistent.
And that's aside from the fact that very few trans children are even prescribed them in the first place.
Double blind stidides are impossible with hormones @@lewis123417
Criminal inquiries!
no, no crime was committed except for transphobia
@@danielhooper502 Lol ok dodgy daniel
@@danielhooper502follow the science
@@danielhooper502 Who is afraid of trans people, exactly?
NHS is a broken system. No access to GPs, ambulance waiting times in the multiple hours and A&E is a joke. Yet, all this fuss about making your little boys into girls and vice versa. Wow! You couldn't make it up.
I was aboriad a couple of years ago (in what is termed a 3rd world country). Got food poisoning REALLY bad. Cut a long story short, had to visit hospital. Direct access, seen and treated within 5 minutes. Drips on, medicines administered and out within an hour. Felt like a million dollars. All for 35 quid. Couldn't believe it.
Gender services are facing the same issues, and that's if the GPs don't sit on referrals as many do. These are all symptoms of the same problem and dichotomising services as you are, does not help anyone.
So you went to a doctors in a LEDC and paid for treatment which is cheap to you, but is it to someone who lives there I wonder.
Conversation therapy is a very dangerous law that makes it illegal for anyone including a child's parents not to instantly and whole heartedly confirm there child's identity.
Example your 5 year old son comes home from school and says daddy mummy iam a girl not a boy if you question your son about it that's classed as conversion therapy. I don't know if its got to that stage yet in the uk but thats where this ends up .
My youngest daughter was what was once described as a tom boy she wasn't interested in dolls or girls stuff she loved playing football anything adventurous she was jumping straight into rivers doing river crossings at 5 year old whilst her older brother was stood on the river bank crying. And she would fight with anyone today she would if been told maybe you might be born in the wrong body shes happily married now to a man.
My eldest son on the other hand when he was 4-5 years old loved to play with his big sisters dolls he would walk around in his mum's shoes and mess up there make up today it would of been suggested that maybe he was born in the wrong body but we let him just carry on we didn't tell him not to play with dolls or pretend he was mum and today he is happily married with 2 boys .
We need to let our children be children let them be who they want to be they will work it out themselves without adults putting ideas in there heads that could permanently destroy there lives.
If my son our daughter had decided when they were old enough to make a mature decision they were gay or trans we would of fully supported them .
I would suggest we bring together those who have transitioned and are happy they have and thos who have de transitioned and whos lives have been destroyed because in there own words they were pushed to take puberty blockers and have life changing surgery.
Let both sides tell there stories without being shouted down and told to shut up after all they are the experts they are the ones who go tru what i can only imagine is a living nightmare for these children and young adults.
As a society ive watched where different ideas were debated openly by both sides where different people were allowed to openly question.
Not so today our society has deteriorated to where only one side is allowed to voice its opinion where laws are passed to enforce that opinion or agenda and no questioning allowed.
History teachers us that when a society starts down this slippery slope it doesn't end well for any of us .
I would suggest our society is being intentinaly divided against itself tru race religion sex education not because the politicians care about the British people but because they know a society that's divided is easier to rule that they can continually bring in more laws to restict or freedoms.
Interestingly enough every dictatorship starts with the limiting of free speech followed by what words are acceptable in this brave new society with laws passed to punish those who don't use the correct speech.
Then were forced to believe black is white day is night good is evil and evil is good.
Iam glad my time on earth is coming to an end my deepest regret is my grandchildrens children will never know the freedom that we once had and have so willingly we gave it all away
what a thoughtful comment and I wholeheartedly agree, I feel so sad as I have a young son who will have to face all of this. In Scotland they are in the consultation stages of passing a bill which will ban transgender conversion therapy-this means all aspects of scottish society will become 'gender-affirming'. This genuinely terrifies me.
@@user-oz9ic9qg4cthank you for your reply look at the people passing these laws they say its all about love this has nothing to do with love but everything to do with absolute control by the political elites and the total fragmentation of our society
They know if they can keep dividing us then we become easier to control
That's probably the best comment and opinion that I've seen. You put it into words much better than I could have. Well thought out and I couldn't agree more.
@@hanzied2012 thank you for your comment
So great to watch 3 non trans people discussing trans people without any trans people present 🙄
Just like the Cass review. Which had far right activists and torture advocates help write it
There's never any trans people on the panels. Interesting that
Note the RUclips attempt to smear Dr Cass and her review by adding the "conversion therapy" context box from the Trevor Project.
I think that's just automated because the video contains the phrase "Conversion Therapy".
But you can send feedback via the "⋮" menu if you think a "Context" note is inappropriate.
Jfc when will you guys realise this is automatic
She worked with desantis
The fact that exploring whether a kid is actually trans could be considered conversion therapy, or using therapy to treat it rather than medication or surgery is crazy.
@@darklighter66 the "the-rapy" in question takes alot from galbraith
Pray tell me what is at risk by respecting a child's social transition?
It involves the same drugs used to chemically castrate Alan Turning, that's the main risk and shouldn't be given to children without evidence that it helps
@@IanLockerbie maybe you'd like to reread OP's comment a little more carefully?
@@ppbacik
Apparently that includes blockers to “pause” puberty, and that’s from self-identified trans people.
@@educational1651 apparently you might also benefit from rereading OP's comment a little more carefully
You mean the risk of going along with their delusion. There's a huge risk. How about you leave kids alone, dodgy daniel? And stop telling them they're in the wrong body.
I've been very disturbed by the reaction from the Green Party. If a similar report were made into the provision of other medicine (e.g. vaccines) we would be appalled by such a reaction. Given I live in a Green city ward this antiscientific rhetoric is persuading my vote and those of neighbours.
Will the new units have new staff? If not why not??
Compensation claims incoming.
i think the crux of this "debate" is if you believe that Dr. Cass is either telling the absolute truth, or is approaching the topic from a position of absolute impartiality.
Cos if she isn't, which is strongly implied from her dealings with a whole host of right-wing figures (incl Ron Desantis) then this report is biased to the point of absurdity.
and the media, NHS, and the government ate this report up like it was sent from on high.
I think we need to draw a distinction between _"culture wars"_ and just _"legitimate disagreement over sociocultural issues"._ There are reasonable debates to be had about matters of policy such as _"How do we balance trans rights and female safety?"_ and _"What is the appropriate application of diversity policies?"_ and _"What are the limits of free speech?"_
I'd say the point it becomes a _"culture war"_ is when people are trying to score points by dominating discourse outside of those debates. Pushing their pet causes into unrelated areas of politics, or into education, art, media, and language itself. Especially when they do so with the express aim of aggravating their political opponents.
The mutilation of children is not culture war its child abuse.
Great point and I love the suggestion. However that's not quite how I understand the 'culture war' phenomenon. I understand it more through the lens of polarization - i.e. there is a strong identitarian left which has a predictable oppressor-oppresssed worldview, and there is a nationalist-populist right which is sceptical of elites, immigration and internationalism. These are the main polarized blocs with their own subcultures, which are at war with one another, and they each have their own respective views on how culture outside of them is 'corrupt'.
@@Bailiol Yes, I think you're right that those are broadly the two main players.
Though I do think we see other factions get involved with similar dynamics.
Like back in the 90s it used to be mainly Christian conservatives versus liberals.
And online it's often libertarian young men with unpleasantly dark humour versus pearl-clutching corporate neoliberals.
For example: I wouldn't count it as _"waging a culture war"_ to raise these issues for debate in parliament.
But I would count it as _"waging a culture war"_ when Rishi Sunak scoffs _"At least I can say what a woman is."_ to distract from another debate he is losing.
Or when Sadiq Khan takes it upon himself to insert _"Black Lives Matter"_ into the London New Year's Eve celebrations.
@@andybrice2711 Really interesting point about other factions - I'm going to ponder over that.
Out of interest, what's your intuition - do you think the polarization is continuing to intensify (i.e are the two main players/blocs continuing to consolidate and attract more 'ideologues') or do you think that increasing numbers of people are weary of the polarization and attendant dogmas and are beginning to yearn once again for some sensible, nuanced conversations absent of vitriol and mudslinging?
It's very curious that the Cass report (perhaps reasonably) criticizes the lack of evidence for therapies that have been being provided, but then (apparently, according to this video) jumps to the conclusion - equally without evidence - that transition will be appropriate for only a small fraction of young people seeing gender services. It seems likely (another quote from the video) that this is revealing the a priori bias of the report's authors.
Avery thoughtfully interview CAM is very overstretched and has been for years. , teachers are also in a very difficult position and very unprepared This issue seems to have ballooned in recent years
That’s because it isn’t a grassroots issue. The trans agenda is being driven by extremely powerful people, who have the authority to control governments. These include multinational finance, medicine, science, pharmaceuticals, academia, law and judiciary, such as WEF, UN, IMF etc.
In some instances gender identity can be a genetic reality eg intersex babies where in the past parents were often advised to agree to surgery to produce a female baby, unfortunately the DNA was not female and therefore the child was infertile, this situation should not happen now that DNA testing can be done allowing an informed choice although there are intersex people who would prefer a third gender to be available on birth certificates allowing them to decide how to deal with their gender identity.
There is another possibility for gender issues, all foetuses are initially female with some becoming male as the pregnancy develops however for some reason although the DNA is male the genitalia remain female, unfortunately this is often only discovered when infertility issues arise.
Life can be hard for those who are in these situations and it us important that society respects their human rights to be who they feel they need to be.
Unless you walk in a person’s shoes you have no way of understanding their life issues!
Respect to all people
No such thing as “intersex”. There are chromosomic conditions which affect men (Jacobsen’s and Klinerfelter syndromes) and women (triple X and Turner syndromes. They are disabilities not identities.
@@rd123. Intersex is indeed a recognised medical term
@@assses-3216 No
@@rd123. Saying no doesnt change reality I'm afraid. It also doesnt change the fact it is also a socially used term.
I mean this report just makes things worse. It was already neccessary to buy the drugs privately while on the 7 year long waitlist, this just tells anyone considering transitioning never to visit a GP and to just handle things themselves.
If you got this far, the more alienated trans youth feel the less they will engage with support available to them and instead turn to advice online.
I forgot to add, according to the report if you are under 25 you are not capable of making life changing decisions. By this logic the age of consent should be changed to 25 and you shouldnt be alowed to have a child if you are in your early 20s. You shouldn't be allowed to take out student loans and you shouldn't be allowed to join the army until you turn 25. It sounds ridiculous, right?
That is NOT what the report says
Read it, then comment
@royjacobs1204 I read correctly, 18-25 will not be referred to adult clinics. If an adult asks for life saving drugs, they should be given them.
@@royjacobs1204we did, and so did many doctors who find it hilariously bad, it ignored over 100 studies without reason
@@RealFemale69 these studies, were they written by Lindsay, Pluckrose and Boghossian per chance.
The mutilation party is over ghouls, cope.
@joooja The only thing I agree with is people under 25 years not being able to make life altering decisions. Especially the 25 year olds of today. They do not appear to be as mature as their predecessors in the 1960’s. These “emerging adults” want to be treated like adults, whilst living at home, being fully supported by their parents, like 12 year olds.
The biggest implication is it is now possable to actually discuss the issue more rationally, which had become the exclusive preserve of the Trans activists. Those that lost so much, due to their attempts to talk about the problems, are owed a huge debt by all those that held their tongues.
I think I understand what you are saying, if by those who are owed a huge debt you mean the likes of Keira Bell, Maya Forstater, Graham Linehan, Kathleen Stock, and the Tavistock whistle-blowers, et al. It would be wrong, though, to say that rational discussion of this issue was ever the preserve of trans activists. With their bullying, irrational approach to the subject, and indeed of shouting 'no debate' and 'transphobia' at anyone seeking to discuss it at all, they are finally being dragged kicking and screaming into the sunlight and exposed as the authoritarian, fantasist ideologues that they have always been.
Its all getting ridiculous
It was ridiculous the moment this top down agenda began.
why the hell are we talking about gender care when people are struggling to get normal GP appointments and there are no dentists? Once again, a swing and a miss for the countries leading bodies when it comes to matters of priorities.
It's more culture war nastiness, eventually they will run out of people to punch down on.
It helps the Tories if you're focused on 1-5% of the population rather than the cause of your issues
While I respect Hannah Barnes for her work, this would not have happened without the active encouragement of adult trans activists and organisations like Mermaids and the BBC. People were bullied into silence - which CASS also talks about - and I'm afraid there needs to be a legal reckoning for those who participated, to prevent this happening again.
I don’t know if there were many actual crimes committed.
But we really do need to take a hard look back at the past decade and how we’ve allowed so much important institutional policy to be guided by spurious political theory and bullying tactics, rather than sound evidence and reasoned discourse.
This seems like something of a watershed moment. With so many people across the political spectrum finally agreeing on a reasonable and balanced analysis of a complex issue. Though it should’ve happened years ago.
It's the 21st century's lobotomy.
Stonewall
One hugely powerful factor at play in the shift here is the subtle and almost entirely cultural-reframing of gender distress from 'mental health issue' (specifically a form of body dysmorphia) to 'core, persistent individual characteristic' akin to race or, more closely, sexuality. This has happened almost entirely in the last 10 years.
This wasn't led by research. A group of psychologists didn't collect troves of data and 'discover' that all humans have an innate, persistent sense of gender identity, distinct from sex, that we can discover from early childhood. If they had, that probably would have been the most profound revelation about the human condition to ever emerge from the field. Instead, if the idea came from anywhere 'academic' it was postmodern social 'sciences' authors aiming to deconstruct gender (although, to be fair, even the postmodernists _in theory_ would reject the innate-ness of gender identity as a concept...if they were consistent, which they aren't.)
The relevance here is that if being transgender is like being homosexual, then that would suggest you _can't_ resolve the body dysmorphia, only do whatever it takes to abate it, even if that does cause harm (with the core difference being you don't need medical intervention to be happy and gay). On the other hand, if gender dysphoria is akin to anorexia or body integrity disorder, then it is something that itself should be addressed.
What baffles me is that so few scientists cared to critically evaluate this shift. I think in part it was because the empirical aspects of society as so disconnected from what people actually believe - scientists didn't, and still don't, see the merit in critically _empirically_ evaluating the central claims of genderism. All the while some of them buy into it anyway.
As I understand it: Many scientists did try to evaluate it. But the social studies departments at universities had very effective strategies for shutting down their research. Strategies which then transferred excellently to other institutions like news media, political parties, and NHS trusts, supercharged by social media.
Excellent arguments. They have created a new industry.
I would actually hazard a guess that persistent gender dysphoria _might_ stem from something more like a low-level intersex condition, perhaps related to prenatal testosterone levels, rather than it being a mental-health condition. Though I don't have much scientific basis for that hypothesis. So I'm not just going to start stating it as an irrefutable truth.
@@andybrice2711 I'm not sure that that would preclude it from being a mental health condition, though - at its core, gender dysmorphia is a disconnect between the mind and body. Which would place it firmly in the category of mental health. That's all that really matters, regardless of what caused it - many mental health issues are caused by chemical levels etc. Also, I would suggest that the only way you could have a holistic treatment for it would include mental health, because transitioning is essentially all about making the biological sex of the body conform more to how the mind thinks of itself - it's not like there is a magic switch that can make a female male or vice versa. People who have transitioned go through an awful lot of various 'therapies' in order to try to minimise that difference, for example: trying to change the pitch of their voices to better reflect their mental identity. All we can do - at least until far off in the future - is try to ease that struggle between what the mind feels, and what the body _is_ as best we can. Mental health support feels like it is vital there. Who else is better placed to deal with the trauma of people who feel even after transitioning that they still don't fully reflect their self-image?
Apologies if I come across as prickly here, it's just as someone with mental health struggles, trying to find some reason to separate this from mental health feels like it is all a part of the stigma that historically has surrounded any mental health issue, and still does.
@@Afterthoughtbtw I think it also matters whether you frame it as a persistent characteristic or not.
I'm autistic and have had depression. I was born autistic, and will be autistic until the day I die. Any professional interventions there are purely about helping me deal with the consequences of that, not 'curing' me (not that I'd even want to be cured - I do love my special interests!).
Depression was something I had for a few years and then moved past, as life circumstances changed. Professional intervention there is about 'curing' people. Nobody is doomed to be depressed. Anorexia is a more similar example - it's culturally bound (there were very few cases in the west before the 1980s) and we fully expect that people _can_ recover from it, even though it can be very difficult.
It's possible that for some transgender people, it's like being autistic. This is maybe behind the sorts of children (mainly young males) who presented to the Dutch study and early GIDS. But it seems really unlikely it's behind the sorts of cases where a fifteen-year old female avid tumblr user who reads too much m/m fanfiction and has a half trans friend group decides she too is trans. I could be wrong, empirical research would be wonderful, but even within mental health issues how you frame the persistency of the issue matters a great deal to the appropriate response.
Lunacyyyyyyyyy
Just needs every adult to explain to children that they can be and wear whatever they want, but changing sex is not possible. They will get over it on move on to the next problem.
You have high quality evidence of that statement do you? Because as a trans person myself who did try to get over it until my late 20s, i can tell you it does not work that way, for those of us who are diagnosed its not just a feeling we can get past, and to try damages us severely
Yes I do have evidence for this statement. I said don’t lie to children. That is what the CASS report says…you can’t change your sex! Personally I do have experience. My son is a 30 year old trans autogynaphile. Sorry to tell you but you can’t ever change your sex class however you might like to present yourself or live your life. Adults that lie to children about something that can affect them forever are evil imo
This is batshit crazy. Wtf is going on here ffs
Very important to note the ingrained bias of the Cass report, transphobe activists were on the board and a considerable number of strong, evidence based studies not taken into account
Not just transphobes but the far right, nazis were on a medical board for the NHS. Imagine what Nye would think of that
Seriously
The fact we're even having this conversation just reminds me of the Bible's warning that iniquity will abound as the end draws near. The world has gone completely mad 😢
The world has finally gone fishing mixed up people telling us how the world works
Long time coming, there should be no rush to puberty blockers or transitioning, utterly scandalous what's happened so far.
Thanks for your ignorance, OP!
@@danielcrafter9349What is it about the comment that you consider to be ignorant?
@@atalanta9353I think the main thing is the insane waiting lists for trans youth... being the reason for tavistock closing and splitting into multiple clinics
Thanks. That makes sense. CAMHS and similar referrals are shamefully slow.
@danielcrafter9349 oh so your in favour of a "rush to give kids puberty blockers"? Your odd aren't you
My god more concerned about mutilation of our children but bugger the fact we cant get dentists or 8million waiting list on nhs
Ud think us parents didn't give our children a name
animal-man hybrid will be serving us soon
She speaks a lot of sense, whereas he should pipe down. He doesnt seem to have a grasp on what the cass report is all about. Its not about how adults identify. Its about getting the right treatment in place faster for children.
Praise Jesus!
What a fascinating talk.
I hope you noticed that the report says "absence of evidence" not "evidence of absence". I suspect that none of you has any actual experience of trans gender people who, after all, make up about 0.1% of the population.
The report talks of "pause to think" but puberty does not pause to think. Whereas transmen can blend in because male hormones alter their bodies to, at least outwardly, conform to the expectations of a male, transwomen have more difficulties because of those awkward changes puberty brings. It is to be hoped that some effective non harming means of puberty delay can be found so that transgirls have a chance to be sure before their bodies condemn them to a life time of difficulties.
Do we know what conversion therapy is? I believe it used to be called aversion therapy, but is perhaps better named torture.
It used to be the therapy of choice in the 1960s but was found to be ineffective. The best "conversion" therapists can hope for is to make the subject hide their true feelings and return to the closet, to live as others want them to and not as they themselves wish.
They need councelling, yes but not denial and not forced conformance.
Yes these children have been let down. Let us hope they will have a better future rather than have to try and survive in a hostile prejudiced so called civilised society.
Absence of evidence is effectively absence of evidence when you are acting on the basis that something _is_ the case. It's essentially Carl Sagan's dragon in his garage. If children have been persuaded to transition, when they are not trans, then _that_ is undeniably torture, to use your word. And we know as fact that this has happened in Britain in very recent years. Puberty, also, seems to resolve feelings of gender dysphoria in many people, so that needs to be taken into account too.
Incidentally, given the large percentage of gay people that get wrongly diagnosed as being trans, you are actively engaging in anti-gay conversion therapy by putting gay people wrongly on puberty blockers. That's why it is so important to have a good evidence base on this. This is precisely what Iran does to homosexuals, incidentally: they make them transition to the other sex. I would recommend you read up on it, and you will see why so many people - particularly those who are gay themselves - who are against child transitioning are so queasy.
You don’t need a doctor nor to go to school to learn that was wrong doing in first place !!
Disappointing coverage by the New Stateman. Young trans people needed you now more than ever. I've always hoped you would be there to support young trans people, but it doesn't seem like you've been able to do so. Gillick principle suggests that young people should be able to determine their own care if they are able to understand the implications.
I see you are trying to be sensitive in this coverage. I fear you're coming out just the wrong side of the line, sorry.
Can any anyone guarantee, that there will be no Christians involved in any part of the treatment trans children. Please keep all of the sadists associated with Tories from ever having any influence on trans children.
One of my trans friends is Christian, she's a great friend and a wonderful person. Christians aren't a monolith. 🤷🏾♀️ Just like Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Atheists, and all humans.
@zxyatiywariii8 don't waste your breath. These people don't believe in individuals
@@lewis123417 ha, that is insanely contradictory. "These people" - you are no different, as you show
@@DarrenRiggs-dj4zw yep, activist weirdos
Ironic, given that the existence of a "gender identity" is no more than a religious belief itself.
I welcome this report. Children must be protected from very harmful drugs like puberty blockers.
even the ones who are born cisgender and have a precocious puberty ??
@@theeperson3764pmsl you lot always argue the extreme cases because you can't debate the point at hand 😂
@@theeperson3764I think it was clear he was referring to a certain group, not all children if they medically need it.
How do you feel about her disregarding 101 positive studies out of 103 studies? All because they didn't conform to a double blind study format.
@@lewis123417the majority of people on puberty blockers are cisgender
The rolling back will accelerate. Just watch….
Ask the WEF PGLE what the global implications are?
You seem to be the only person in the comment section who knows and understands the origins, and drivers of this agenda. The rest are talking about politics and religion.
A waste of time and words
What, you mean a man or a woman? I thought they'd been doing that for years.....
Cult
From the discussion I gathered that all the speakers are cis. Where were the trans contributors?
💚💙
Sir kier helped his good friend sir jim with that spot of bother remember
😢what a state, it’s a non issue if you gave them proper mental health care you wouldn’t have loads of weirdos about it’s very very simple
As a biologically born Man, Could I Identify as a Woman to see a Gynaecologist about a problem I might identify as having, For Example.. An itchy Vulva.🤔
😂🤣😂. Just like I could see a urologist about an enlarged prostrate, as a biological woman 😂🤣😂.
Don’t forget to attend your smear appointment, it’s very important!
The term 'Identitfy' used in this context is not a one denoting 'choice', for trans people its not a choice to 'identify' as trans. The term is used in the context of a persons internal understanding of their gender. Gender dysphoria is when there is a mismatch of this internal understanding and their outward gender which causes huge amounts of distress. Also important to note that all the official international definitions for gender dysphoria, exclude it from being a mental illness.
@BorgSkeptic That still does not explain what I can do about this itchy vulva.😤 It is like a swollen dragon fruit down here.😟
The Transgender conversation should be one about mental health not physical interventions. The Trans and Net Zero ideologists are not concerned with science but religion.
It is one about mental health, and bodily autonomy, and consent. But gender criticals hate women being able to say no to stuff
Wasting tax payers money. Absolute joke
Gen Z, complicit. Every parent, complicit. No excuses.
The data on gender dysphoria is clear and available to all.
we need to give transitional care for transgender children. the cass report is a farse
The debate has been shifted away from the dogmatist of the trans activists thank goodness.
Bill/Polly put in a female ward 🫣. Even though he was only a transvestite 🙄..
It was child abuse wess streeting was part of the problem he encouraged it' very few mp's spoke out against the obvious abuse against confused vulnerable children' we want justice not excuses.
Gender services provided by the NHS while people with actual and serious illnesses arent getting the treatment they need.... ABSOLUTELY APPALLING, DISGRACEFUL, CRIMINAL.
No words are sufficient to describe how wrong and disgusting this irresponsible wasting of public resources is!
🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
The waitlists are years long for gender services all across the UK, so I think this characterisation isn't the best. Drawing a dichotomy between services you personally deem useful or not isn't useful. I also suggest that many people end up going private because the wait for even a consultation is intolerable.
If I have a broken bone, I need it mending. If I develop PTSD, I need it looking at with a professional. If my friend is trans, they need gender services. If you have diabetes, you get access to care. (And we don't differentiate on entitlement or judge dependent on the type.)
The only reason you are making this point is because services across the UK are breaking. That does not mean a psychiatrist will be able to administer cancer care, nor does it mean their labour is better spent elsewhere (though many work across many different areas/clinics/departments anyway).
@miranda 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
We need to protect our children from this sickness
nope, this is a personal choice, trans people should pay out of their own pockets
Ah yes, because most kids have enough money to pay to transition from their own pockets...
This is about the care of children who are going through gender dysmorphia - or perhaps, more accurately, have been _told_ that they are going through dysmorphia. Who pays for it is irrelevant here.
@@Afterthoughtbtwlet the people pay who told them they are going through gender dysphoria.
WTH IS WRONG WITH YA'LL! NO puberty blockers 4 kids! NHS should never cover this. And it is not a health story. The sooner everyone stops this doodoo, then it is WRONG! I am a 72 y/o lesbian. Enough with this BS.😮
I agree, children's brains aren't developed enough to make such critical thoughts. NHS should prioritise sick patients, not deluded kids.
@@Jackary1232what if a little girl starts puberty early and gets horrible side effects from that, their parents try to take them to the doctor but because you hate trans people so much you'd ban all puberty blockers a 5 year old girl has to start puberty
Camp old wes.
Nhs should only privide therapy for people/children questioning their gender, nothing else
What kind of therapy?
Would you say this about gay kids?
All the problems in the world and they are talking about this .this stupid woke bullocks.
Can someone do a report to show both parties we are being islamised, so they can back track and wonder how it happened. after the majority screaming at them for over a decade.
Who bloody cares!!
Fing disgusting what a waste
NORMAL REALPEOPLE CARE.WHITE LIFE MATTERS TOO.
Disgraceful shame on the government
WE MUST RADICALLY CHANGE POLITICS ONCE AND FOR ALL.
1) NO MORE ROYALS OR WEALTHY FAMILIES ALLOWED ANYWHERE NEAR POLITICS.
2) PAY CUTS BY 50%. NO PRIVILEGES AND TSOP CLAIMING EXPENSES THAT MAKE NO SENSE.
3) POLITICIANS MUST HOLD SPECIFIC QUALIFICATIONS TO COVER THEIR ROLES. WE ALL STUDY TO WORK!!! BUT THEY WING IT WHILE SPENDING OUR MONEY AND PLAYING WITH HUMAN LIVES. ENOUGH!!!!!!!
Whys all this gender stuff only started over the last 5-10 years surely if all this shite was even slightly real we would have had to solve it a long time ago.... we would have already fixed or atleast have procedures for it all already in place but.... here we are 🙄😴😴
It is real, there are international guidelines. The concern over the drug relates to it's age, not that of trans identities. You can't do a longitudinal study into adulthood if they ppl who took it aren't adults yet.
@@assses-3216 ive got a trans friend who had a conversation with her other trans friend about hormones and tablets ect, my friend asked hers if she was going down the surgery route, her friend said "nah i dont want the physical changes, its mostly agenda based" the subject then quickly changed as soon as i made my presense noticed by coughing........ people can be whoever they like i dont have the time to care but if it was real it would already be something we have actively tried to fix like hundreds of years ago, like we noticed slavery wasnt cool so stopped that as much as possible, we noticed people died from rotten teeth so invented dentistry, we noticed people die of TB and other things so invented antibiotics, so just 2 questions i have really is if trans people are so in danger not getting tablets they dont need why hasnt this already been studied and figured out and a procedure put in place for them like 100 years ago..... is it because trans people didnt need them then? Or.... what? Like the contradictions are all too much tbh, my second question would be say if your born male but are trans (and feel like a different gender on the inside than you are on the outside) and if people can just be the gender they want to be regardless of physical bodys why do they need to change at all? Why cant that born as male for example person just be a woman now and just get on with it? It cant be both... None of it makes any sense tbh
Also: the only way it makes sense to be a huge deal now is if trans people literally werent a thing before the last 10 years when all this started otherwise we would have seen a trans peoples problems epidemic.... the only one of which seems to be now for some reason
@@mcdaddy2134 There is no one way of being and so I wonder why the surgery or medicalisation of this is such a key point for you?
Trans people as we now call them have existed throughout history, the fact one can socially exist and be percieved or accepted as a gender is important but it's not the whole story. I think you're best placed to enquire with your friend if your curious about their choices.
There are many ways to exist and no singular way of being is going to be good for everyone. I have seen some people who i grew up with transition, and it seems like they are living the lives theyve always wanted and been shut away from. Thats wonderful to me.
The performative model of gender is also not a contradiction of any medical interventions. Because we exsist in a society with male, masculine and man nailed together. Through critique we can challenge that, through our own genders we may subvert it. But we still live in a society where genders are applied to sexed bodies, in this respect, i completely understand why it would be a more comfortable exsistence to take steps toward a body closer to the 'ideal/norm'.
To me, there is no debate of whether it is real. It simply is. And whilst your reading of history is interting, i feel it is limited, because gender as we understand it today or more the gender/sex relationship is something which isnt universal. Many cultures had three or more genders.
I don't think your reading of history is the most comprehensive and that is holding your reasoning back too. We could say 'if adhd has exsisted for all of history, how come it way only 300 years ago documented in literature and only 80 years ago, found to be treatable with medication.' I think this misses the lived reality for a curated history, one devoid of the experiences of those who lived with such things. But also the agency of these people is important, like I might choose to use medication, but my friend might not, neither is an objectively better answer because personal circumstances are subjective.
There is no one way to be anything, and whilst we have studies and testemony showing social transitioning to be very helpful. There are people in this world who make life difficult for those who fall outside the norm, violence is a real threat, especially to those who do not conform. As such I think there is also a hegemonic force here that being one which says 'if you're this, act like this'. The threat of violence and social exclusion can be huge factors in decisions as to whether to have x or y. But safety is a huge concern, and especially with a culture of hatred.
There is also the left-handedness arguement, which essentially says lefthandedness has risen since people stopped being beaten for it, or socially shunned. I think this is something too, we now have a language for something and its more socially acceptable. Again in the passed 5 years ADHD services have become oversubsribed, does that mean everyone who relates to the experience saw it as something tredy? No. It means people saw themselves in others with/ the condition. I don't think the parrellel is the best because you can absolutley be trans or have ADHD and not seek intervention. The clumsy point im making is, a much wider awareness of an issue, can mean it resonates with more people who were once unfamiliar with the concept.
@@assses-3216 while i do agree with most of that, but to me it just seems constantly contradictory, like im forced to care and im literally not phased what others do with their own lives its up to them, but i dont see why its literally the entire topic of the century and we all have to care about what everyone else is doing, in the early 2000s it was considered you being nosey and or rude to even ask people very personal questions (such as how old a woman was and you had to guess younger than she looks and if someone was gay it was actually nothing to do with you what they got up to in their personal lives) now though its like im being smashed in the face with a book of human rights while someone consistently yells "have an opinion in either direction so we can either hate you or love you depending on it, think exactly how we think or think exactly how they think it cant be neither" and its like bruh, do you, but dont convince kids that arent legally even aloud to stay at home by themselves nevermind make a concious decision about gender, kids dont care about gender i spent 13 years in education, in a school of more than 1200 kids and not a single one of them had any kind of trans movement, gender change, hormone regulator based situation the whole time i was there.... some people genuinely are trans, and have struggled, but i certainly dont think everyone of them is, i think for alot of people its simply lack of personality and they need to create one otherwise they are just dull, like ive met alot of trans people who have literally zero else to talk about or be about or do, its just look how trans they are being all day long, but there are others that seem alot less like this, i know a trans guy thats transitioned fully now and hes had a really bad time, but i think the trans people who arnt and they are just virtue signaling, desperate for attention and probably werent acknowledged much as a child and just need a hug make life alot harder for people like him tbh, id say its probably having the reverse effect and making people just sick of caring because either way its not good enough as someones liquidated themselves over here and want to identify as something else we dont have any structure for just to be slightly different, feel like im surrounded by NPCs, just copies of copies of copies with different coloured hairs and pronouns 🤷
@@mcdaddy2134 I've heard similar arguements about homosexual men 'shoving it down our throats'. I mean everyone can be themselves as you say, but you can also snooze who you interact with.
A lot of people will discuss their own identities, like parents discussing their kids, married people discussing their partner's, homeowner' discussing their houses. I have friends who are neurodivergent and we talk about that a lot, it doesn't mean it's their whole personality, it's a component they are trying to understand our navigate life with.
This is an argument i hear a lot this kind of 'forced to care' idea. I don't think anyone in the queer community wants anything more than tolerance and acceptance, that meaning they can bee themselves without the threat of violence. And that is why no one is trying to convert people to be queer, we simply want to occupy a space and be allowed to exist in it, and if that means a kid who realises they are gay sees it and is validated by seeing other ppl like them, that's great. When i was a child, breaking stereotypes about homosexual men was present in media, but it was still seen as exceptional. Normalising out identities isn't trying to make others uncomfortable, it's actually trying to create room for ourselves. I think the "it gets better" campaign is a prime example of how most ppl who are queer feel. Like idgaf if you're gay or not, but if i can make your experience of life that little more tolerable day to day by saying i am gay and my life has improved since escaping high school bullies, then that's affirming.
No one is interested in converting people or confusing them here. I also feel that human rights are human rights, and whilst one group is facing an increasingly hostile environment and is reminding us of that, to be blunt, your comfort doesn't matter. If I'm on fire and you see it on tv and it makes you wince, you are still the spectator and your discomfort with seeing something you weren't expecting isn't the same thing.
The reason you see so much stuff is because there is an increased assault against the trans community. Many tabloids used trans stories to sensationalised the experience, others frankly fanned the flames of hate. Politicians on the right are obsessed with trans bodies and are seeking to undo human rights. And yeah, people are rightly annoyed.
I'm not old enough to remember the AIDS epidemic but seeing that those people needed to make themselves visible in order to get healthcare, remove stigma and be viewed with dignity, i think we can draw a comparison. That being that rights are under threat and so people need to make noise about it. If i was threatening to take your passport away and make you stateless, that's a you problem, but if I'm doing it to 1000 other people, you now have a community with which you can organise. Idk, i understand your point somewhat, but it is almost like you are saying you would prefer not to see people/ issues, because it impacts your comfort levels.
I also just want to say statistically speaking there were ppl in your class who may have been gay, bi and trans... Them not being visible to you doesnt mean they were all one group and suddenly an idea had swept across society and changed people. It simply means, times have changed and media/ information access is more 'democratic' than ever.
Virtue signalling as an idea is weird to me. I've seen wealthy guys who have never faced the prejudice i did talk about charities to help gay ppl and gay rights but that isn't virtue signalling. I also know that seeing others who haven't struggled can be difficult, but especially in the LGBTQ community, that's all we are fighting for. For things to get better and easier so people don't have to be hidden and human rights aren't placed as a political football.
You can see it through the lens of a desire for attention, and sure lots of social media had that aspect. But i think you are missing the point as to why so many queer ppl are talking about this and organising in solidarity. All we want is to live our lives with no barriers and with respect and dignity. That is universal. You also might be noticing all this more, due to how you move online, which is worth noting.
I'm glad that most academics and doctors haven't heard of the report, and those who have and read it think it's insane
They have heard of the report, it isn’t insane and they can’t ignore it.
Cass has a long history of questionable positions on trans rights and to call her objective is laughable. She actually engaged with multiple groups who are anti-trans and worked with the Florida legislature to draft their anti trans bills.
meanwhile, the Pritzker family are rinsing the coin
Questionable or just different to you so must be wrong?
@@danielwebb8402 If she engaged with anti-trans groups in the US, in the context of authoring a supposedly 'independent' report, that's not just questionable, but unarguably non-objective.
@anonnymous4684
But if your starting position is "Anyone that doesn't already agree / bow down to sterilising mainly just gay people is anti-trans" then you then saying someone / something is anti-trans doesn't mean anything of value.
"If Dave wants you to call him Sarah and wear a dress then you should kick and punch Dave" is anti-trans and questionable. Saying Dave is a bloke is not questionable. Is a valid position.
Should she have spoke to the "pro-trans" charities etc? Or is that not objective as those have also already a preset position?
@@anonnymous4684 It's wild to argue that someone engaging with people, any people, is a mark _against_ that person's objectivity.
An objective person would actively _hope_ to engage with all possible lines of enquiry, and thus all sorts of people making all sorts of arguments. Pre-judging what possibilities you're going to countenance would be the opposite of objective!
Why the hell are we letting children transition in the first place there’s a reason we stop hem doing many things due to having an immature mind set etc, make them wait till their 18 a legal adult then if they want to change sex by all means help them but before 18 I say it’s a very silly thing to do
Social media has made children go mad. And doctors wanted the millions in profits
puberty blockers have been used to delay puberty until ppl are over the age of 18. And so the answer is, no one is medically transitioning children.
Allowing people to socially transition has got measurable benefits to those who are trans, i am surprised the data they drew on did not reflect this.