Great video again NC...Imo one of the clearest historical parallels to Paul and the Fremen defeating the Sardaukar, was Hannibal the Carthaginian (he was my favorite historical general, so i know a lil about his history and the Punic Wars)....Hannibal did not rely on ambushes and guerrilla tactics...His army was the first to defeat the previously undefeated Roman legions in open battle...several times Hannibal routed the Romans in open battle, while heavily outnumbered....he was known for his brilliant, unpredictable tactics (similar to Paul, using atomics against the Shield Wall)...even his Roman general opponents, and later Roman historians, praised Hannibal's tactics...and I understand some of his tactics are still studied in war colleges to this day....another connection, Hannibal had his War Elephants (similar to Shai-Hulud) which was really the ancient world's equivalent of a tank...Trained and armored fighting elephants, with towers on top filled with archers...the Romans had never encountered anything like that....the real irony of the Punic Wars was, the previously unbeatable Roman soldiers were forced to resort to guerrilla warfare vs Hannibal...ambushes and hit and run tactics, attacking supply lines, etc....because Hannibal was marching on Rome itself, with all his elephants, and had become unstoppable in open battle
@@codename495 Well not in this book, but for the sake of setting up Messiah it would have been a nice touch. There were a lot of things in Part 1 of this movie I saw and thought, 'why did they go that route?' and it only made sense once I saw part 2. The people hurt by Pauls' Jihad are a big part of the story in Messiah, honestly seems like a decent place for a setup.
@@codename495sardaukar are all natural and fremen have generations with drug enhancement remember spice prolonged life, gave some visions of the future, and remember there used for pilots to travel the stars human calculators is what they are and remember in our time to prolong you life usually requires a lot of physical fitness and the drug spices kind of does that to you so sardaukar are truly strong and worth of there reputation freman are just people in the Olympics that take drugs to win it the sardaukar had access to this and had exposure like fremand then the sardaukar would be beating a child for how good they are
One of the things why I like Dune Part 1 more is the Sardaukars. They were menacing and that throat singing was top notch. Was expecting something like that or even more menacing for Part 2. Unfortunately, it didn't happen.
Exactly. I get that they were supposed to lose. I was still bothered when the last squad literally walked into the mist and were done, no sword clashing or anything.
Pretty much the only thing I disliked about Dune Part II was indeed the Sardaukar nerf, like we didn't get to see the Emperor's guardsmen wield those Kriegsmesser longswords against the Fremen, they just died off screen :/
This could have been resolved easily by adding an extra fight scene where Duncan (the specimen of what a fighter should be capable of) fights Harkonnens during the siege of Arrakeen (and carves through them like a knife through butter) BUT showing him having a visibly harder time against the Sardaukar when he sacrifices himself. This way everyone would have an idea of the overall strength of each faction.
They kinda did that with the staircase scene in part one. The Harkonnen relied solely on numbers without any sort of battle tactics in mind. A small line of Atreides held them off without taking any heavy losses, if any at all. The Sardaukar had the drop on the Atreides but no Harkonnen interfered. The Atreides didn't even stand a chance. What could have worked would to take your concept and add it to part two. The Second Battle for Arrakis led by Gurney would've been PERFECT to show the difference in power scales but the battle was rushed
@@jaccobmarrero6021 yeah, during that scene where the Sardaukar are destroying the Atreides, you get the sense that the Harkonnen forces stayed back because they were afraid the Sardaukar might kill some of them just for being in the way.
I knew that Dune: Part 2 did not do the Sardaukar justice. If we had a brief scene of a handful of worn-out, shredded, and bloodied Sardarkaur warriors fighting to the last over a pile of freshly slain Fremen corpses, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we never got that.
They had exactly this scene when Duncan carves up a (maybe 2) Harconnens and then the rest of them let him take the ornathopter because they know even with their numbers they have no chance.
I was so completely disappointed by the lack of Piter De Vries. Even though 'New' Dune is overall better, 'Old' Dune (extended) does a better job of giving screen time to tertiary characters that had their own big influence on the story.
What irked me in the first movie was that the Sardaukar were dressed distinctly from the Harkonnen troops. The whole point was to HIDE them... oh well... Also, in both movies but especially the second I never got the feeling that anybody was special. Not the Fremen, not the Sardaukar and not Paul. Paul fought together with the Fremen, but never was it shown that he is special. When you read the books you get the feeling that people like Paul are uber-humans. Bred and trained vigorously for their whole life and no normal human being can compare to them. Yet in the movies they seemed capable, but not nearly as much as described in the books. That was what left me with mixed feelings after seeing Dune, especially Part 2.
I knew that Dune: Part 2 did not do the Sardaukar justice. If we had a brief scene of a handful of worn-out, shredded, and bloodied Sardarkaur warriors fighting to the last over a pile of freshly slain Fremen corpses, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we never got that.
I don’t know but I do kind of get where your coming from it was very season 8 GOT with the whole focusing on the I don’t want it aspect. That’s what I like about the Lynch version from the beginning you can tell Paul is very much different with a whole lot of potential maybe Kyle McLaughlin just played it better. I just think there’s more of an aura to his portrayal than Chalamet’s.
@@henners8910 It seems like Villeneuve went out of his way not to incorporate much of the weirding ways into part 2, not really sure why because they set it up in part 1 like they were going to build on it. I think I recall him using the voice maybe twice in the entire movie, once at the finale scene. And thinking about it, I can't even recall a representation of the super human movement in either movie. If he does Messiah faithfully, eventually he's going to have to grapple with this. I'm pretty sure it's only through his Weirding way teachings he manages to prevent a pretty huge part of the plot line. We'll see!
The thing is, the Dune series has many plot holes, Sardaukar being one of them. Yes, they have grown compliant and all of the things you (and many others) have mentioned. But we are talking about the battle for the entire planet - those do not get resolved in a battle or two. Even if the Sardaukar are all those things, the army with basically unlimited resources at their disposal woudl relatively fast fix those things over the course of several months and would wipe the floor with Fremen - people on a desert planet with extremely limited resources and tech that needs to be brought off-world. People can talk about the Fremen being excellent fighters due to their life conditions and spice - but in war, logistics is king. They might win 1:1 fight against anyone. Here, we are talking about a military with unlimited resources, fighting for the literally the most important place in the galaxy. There is no snowball's chance in hell Fremen would win that conflict. Which is why Herbert does not spend too much time explaining it, and the films showing it - because it does not make any sense. We had examples of large powerful armies getting compliant and fat... all it took were a few battlefield defeats to have them wake up, kick in the high gear and wreck havoc on the enemy who thought they can take them on.
@@M4tt888_I mean did that first terd really need to passive aggressively say “it’ll be okay” ? Sounds like we should be on Sean’s side with this and condemn the text-shaped-like-monkey-emoji boy
I feel like Dune pt1 &2 should have been a high budget tv show! At no point I felt the Sardukar were fearsome when Paul lead the offensive. We had an awesome tease in pt1 with the war chant and blood ritual!
The Second Movie completely dropped the Ball with the timeline six months rather than three years and the Sardaukar. In the first Movie the Sardaukar were elite, like having a legion of Navy Seals. In the second movie they were a National Guard unit on a Barbecue at the Beach. Complete let down we didn't even get to see the Imperial Bodyguards die bravely.
I knew that Dune: Part 2 did not do the Sardaukar justice. If we had a brief scene of a handful of worn-out, shredded, and bloodied Sardarkaur warriors fighting to the last over a pile of freshly slain Fremen corpses, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we never got that.
@@Trenex1000 So the film is supposed to veer from the book's storyline and glorify the Sardaukar more? For the sake of Sardaukar fanboys? If that's what you want, go back to your YT tributes you probably already watched countless times....I couldn't believe how many millions of views, and slavishly adoring comments, were on some of those pages
Literally everything was nerfed by making a 3 year period in the book last about 3 months. 0 time to naturally develop anything at all. I'm still mad that stilgar became comedic relief in part 2.
Thanks. You took the thought out of my head. Why was Stilgar treated this way? What did the ditector think he was achieving by making Stilgar provide comic relief?
@@caspasesumo I highkey don't get his vision of dune. The changes he made fundamentally tell a different story. Paul kills the wounded baron in cold fucking blood. That's just, not what he would do lmao plus the whole "im not talented enough to use that character, so she doesn't exist yet" part of the movie is ass.
yeah personally i felt like he went out badly with that whip at the end with gurney, i had thought if they were gonna show those two going up against each other it would have been a better, longer fight. i felt like hed have not been a match for gurney but would have lasted longer
Yeah, from what I read I doubt the 'real' Rabban would let Feyd to humilate him. In Heir of Caladan, Feyd mocked him and Rabban's answer was to beat Feyd. Feyd almost started a fight but finally it didn't happen.
The reason was Feyd. In the movie, he became the biggest antagonist. What is book accurate in some ways....but in my opinion the book didn't really build up Feyd as Paul's dark mirror. It started but then Feyd became irrevelant and he just appeared in the final fight. Feyd is more scary if he even humilates the Beast, I guess this was the reason.
The bloodletting ritual was the highpoint of Sardaukar screen presentations, although I would've liked to have seen more of the nuclear hellscape that is Salusa Secundus. I never could take the giant chef hats seriously in the Sci-Fi Channel mini series, and although I'm not really a fan of the white Sardaukar uniforms, they're still the best ones we've seen. I really do hope that we get to see the radio-controlled mutant attack tigers and hidden shigawire garrotes in a future project.
I think the sarduakar defeat is significantly due to their hubris. No doubt that they were the best fighting forces the universe had to offer for a long time, but having that mentality of "No one can challenge us" ultimately lead to their defeat.
The problem was that there was no weirding way in Villeneuve movies . Bene Gesserit depiction was a joke , no prana Bindu, no ultra vision. Just the voice . Jessica surrendering to her feeliings the whole time.
I mean the weirding way is ultra speed (like the tv) so IS very difficult to show without being silly They could put the same moves as the dream Battle of Paul were he does weird arm tricks to kill the soldiers in Dune part 1
@@Morfe02 if you have 200 millions budget I'm sure you can find the way. Plus , there was no significant difference between Paul's fighting style and the rest of antagonists
One of the problems is that in the movie, Paul does not teach the Fremen the weirding way. In short: they do not get their upgrade, hence it appears they do not need it, which downgrades the Sardaukar. The reason was probably, that they (due to "modern" political concerns) feared to legitimize him as a "white savior character" (which is also why these massive changes to Shani), but at the same time they do not seem to reflect that they downgrade the Bene Geserit, whose secret martial arts powers these were, thereby downgrading the females (which funnily should also be against their "modern" political concerns), instead of just sticking to the source material.
I believe Villeneuve addressed this in interviews and stated that the weirding way was mainly cut due to time to in an already long script/story, and he chose to focus on Paul and Jessica's struggle/transformations and the larger theme of how religious fervor can galvanize a culture/society into massive world changing action, which was actually one of Herbert's main takeaways.
Tbh if they were soooo worried about "white" savior complex why didnt they just make chani and paul atriedes middle eastern? It would work especially the significant middle east influence in story
@@jmgonzales7701 Paul as described was a small for his age kid, dark hair, fair complexion of Greek descent, Chani was a Freman girl, they were of the "zensunni" tribes, as you say, "middle eastern", Gurney Halleck was a huge guy( like Momoa), Idaho was of average build and size, not a meathead oaf like Momoa...
So awesome they lasted 2 minutes in the final battle. The final battle was so dumb, it's like they realized they were running out of money while making number 2. Really ruined the whole movie.
More like they "kill" the Guy Who made the choreography of sword battles, is the last soldier that Feyd kills 1 vs 1 for the record Because they could made a 2 secs fight against Paul and his Fremen instead of BLACK SCREEN
Frank Herbert attributed it to overconfidence from always being the winner. Paul was going to incorporate losing into his training program. Also, the Fremen were beating the Sardaukar before learning the weirding way. The scene where the Fremen was telling Thufir about capturing the cannon. The cannon was guarded by 100 Sardaukar.
5:05 a more apt comparison would have been the rise of islam, when 7th century arabs roaming the dunes as Bedouins, who just converted to the then new religion, consistently triumphed over the forces of both Eastern Roman & Sassanid Empires in spite of overwhelming odds.
I knew that Dune: Part 2 did not do the Sardaukar justice. If we had a brief scene of a handful of worn-out, shredded, and bloodied Sardarkaur warriors fighting to the last over a pile of freshly slain Fremen corpses, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we never got that.
'Punked', "Eliminated', 'Massacred', 'Obliterated'...all of these words would be more appropriate than 'nerfed'...and it's all faithful to the book folks
@@koko40800 how iis it faithful ? With no detail, they didn't even get the number of sardukar right, both battles and they never said why they are special
The moment the scrawny chani killed a few Sardaukar in melee combat without any effort ruined the Sardaukar for me. When Duncan did it it was already pushing my suspense of disbelief but he was a legendary warrior, not a teenage girl no matter how harsh the environment she grew up in is. I also wonder how fremen will handle themselves in areas where they have zero experience, such as spacecombat, urban areas, sea battles, swamps, mountainous terrain, frost and snowy areas. Their skillset is perfectly tailored to their surroundings, take that away and i wonder if for example the Sardaukar or local forces will fight on more equal footing.
@@origami83 Because the timeline was too short (less than a year) for Paul to teach all the fremen...but he and Chani were lovers, so he probably taught her a few things
The Sardaukar on Arrakis were massacred to the last man...in the books and the film...that's not getting nerfed, that is literally getting eliminated...I warned all you Sardaukar fanboys this would happen after Part 1, when you were all drooling and getting erections over your YT Sardaukar tributes...but you didn't want to listen...now you cry that your crush boys didn't get a more valiant or difficult death... you boys really love your Men in Uniform!...I mean, Reeeeally Love them
It was the Muslims, not the Mongols, who eventually ousted the Knight Templars from the Levant. The Muslims being closer to the culture of the Fremen on Arrakis. You were right in matching the Mongols up with the Teutonic Knights.
I think the films portrayed a more opportunistic battle plan from the fremen. One which they acted separately and not as a unified people. At the end of part 2 this changes as the entire fremen population is mobilized and attacking under the fire of religious fervor combined with their native and hardy traits for battle. So it made sense that the saardukar would be swept aside. Or at least that was my read of how it was presented.
Exactly. It was a realistic portrayal of the massacre and rout it was...but these fanboys wanted to see more Hollywood, B movie shyte, the Sardaukar dying bravely at the end surrounded by 'piles of fremen corpses' (with bagpipes playing?)
🔸️The Sarduakar were indeed nerfed... 🔸️The Mentats _weren't even_ given the dignity of being named/identified aloud! [[ ...I'm serious. Anyone can go rewatch the movie to see whether I'm mistaken. I'd gladly bet some money (( _if_ I had _any_ money )) against my claim that the term 'Mentat' isn't even spoken aloud!!! ]] 🔸️The Spacing Guild, whilst mentioned -- but only twice, maybe thrice, at the very most; in passing only -- weren't even slightly explained to the audience, regarding their relevance... This all seems to be _entirely deliberate_ by Denis Villeneuve... In retrospect, I feel that I can only conclude as such... _....Now, as to why, if indeed it was premeditated?!?_ Well... I have a notion that it could be that he seems to want further the 'Progessive' agenda, to be more precise, the 3rd-Wave Intersectionalist Feminism agenda _but, without demonstrating such, as obviously..._ BtW; for whatever it's worth:.. I (only) vaguely recall some commentary by him when asked a probing question upon aspects of the setting and themes. Sadly, I cannot recall the source, let alone the precise wording in his statements, but I _do_ remember the tone and subtext within them -- an intense mindfulness of the significance and impact of the women and their roles in the script and overall story; _to be more precise, to put them into nearly the focal point..._ For me, it was a red flag that wouldn't subside/recede...
Shields hit by lasguns turn into nukes (so does the lasgun that hits them). The Fremen love to exploit this. Also the Fremen ride into battle on worms, and worms are drawn to shields and try to eat them. So shield users risk either being turned into nukes, or eaten by woms. Most choose to just turn off the shield.
I have not read the books, only seen the tv and film adaptations. It makes sense to me the Fremen would be so formidable. Spice, Warrior culture, Harsh environs. Then you add the Religious fervor and training under Paul's prescience. The Sardukar stood no chance on Dune.
The Sardaukar and Fremen are far-cousins (Suní Wanderers are a tribe of People that travel a lot of planets, in the history inside the book they put a little of info about this, and they travel Arrakis and others Saluda Secundus) and they are raised in same conditions (harsh enviroment and extreme fanatism) The only differences are the skills of no shield fighting, the mentality of tribe meanwhile the Sardaukar are like vikings/berserks, the genetics since the Sardaukar are prisioners and the weirding way reach by Paul, i dont know how to explain but is like ultra-speed or the control of the body
I certainly thought so, by watching the movies. They should have been given one scene to show how Bad Ass they were. Instead, the fremen seemed to quite easily kill them (either through a sniping ambush or just hand to hand in the desert).
I am currently reading a book called the Shares of Paradise by Lesley Branch. It is about Muslim warriors in the Caucuses in the 19th Century. It came out in 1960. Herbert drew a lot on this book for Fremen Culture and tactics. My grandmother was a Bruce, but I never thought once that the Fremen were based on Scottish freedom fighters.
The question is: did they nerf the sardaukar? The question should be: Were sardaukar even in the movie? And that is also your answer. They could've just as well not mentioned them at all and it would've made no difference for the movie...
To be sure, I was hoping the movies would show them as much more formidable and deadly. When they fought Duncan, they just sort of fell at his feet. It was disappointing to see them depicted as so banal.
In the book it mentions that one of the emperors motives might have been that the Atreideis had developed a way to train their military to a comparable level. I don't see how else they were supposed to be portrayed. As formidable as they are...they are out matched in the books.
part 2 felt diluted, unfocused and exhausted..part one was focused, well crafted and perfected..that being said i am a fan of all involved here and will definitely watch dune 3
to me they always more closely mirrored spartans. mongols had different battle tactics, the stirrups and the bows and tactics they allowed others werent use to, alexander and the greeks had the phalanx and his generalship. but its hard to show in a movie cut down for time, you have to show the harkonnens as being brutal or they arent much as an adversary, then the atreides troops as far beyond them but a notch below the sardukar, then the fremen above them and with time constrains and cutting out things like the raid that killed pauls first sons where they barely escaped with alia while basically fighting old men and women, its difficult. i feel like they were nerfed but to me it is what it is within the constraints of the movies time, i still enjoyed the movie
Thank, you, Nerd Cookies. Yes, one of several aspects of the film I disliked. I’m ok with a relatively quick battle owing to Muad’Dib’s prescience but I hoped for at least a better showing from Sardaukar troops. Only a few extra scenes or changes were needed to enhance Sardaukar presence: A reminder of the intense Sardaukar loyalty to the Emperor, perhaps in a short scene with Shaddam when he’s first introduced. (this also helps flesh out Shaddam’s character. As it is, it’s rich of him calling Leto “a weak man” when, in the film, he’s seemingly only a puppet of the BG.) Then, when on Arrakis, some use of battle tactics other than a blind bum-rush at the Fremen. Imagine the spectacle of disciplined, formed up Sardaukar holding for a few moments only to be overrun by Fremen fanaticism. It makes the victory more impressive. As for the guys on the Shield Wall side…tough luck there. Shai-Hulud> I did like the imagery of the imperial guard marching into the sand only to be replaced by Fedaykin though.
When Yueh brought down the Duke, the first "Harkonnen" he meets is a Sardaukar in Harkonnen livery who comments (contemptuously) _"So, that's the 'Red Duke'"._ and Yueh knows that is the Emperor's nickname for Duke Leto and he's facing a Sardaukar. It seems that the Sardaukar were already getting sloppy as the seeming ease of the victory over the Duke's forces invited cockiness, which cost them later. Pride before the fall, and all that.
In the movie version, Paul and Jessica couldn’t have had time to “level up” the Fremen. Part 2 couldn’t have spanned more than 6 or 8 months - known due to Alia being in the womb the whole time - as opposed to the multi-year time jump in the book. You don’t just instantly master BG muscle control techniques. It doesn’t feel like enough time for Gurney to have settled in as a smuggler, either. (Also, remember that Fremen blood almost instantly coagulates, which would allow them to shrug off wounds that would cause regular humans to bleed out.)
Do you or anyone else remember seeing any kind of examples of the Sardaukar prowess except for that brief and small 'battle' in p1?* I dont, in p2, the Sardaukar force (whose numbers are never mentioned), are just a cgi army that gets wiped out mostly, off-screen. Even semi-soft elite troops are going to present a challenge to ANY force, even the freeman. The goofy DV movie, turns them into a red-shirt army and the freeman roll them, with apparently, no looses or challenge worth putting on screen. I attribute this to fact that FH was not any kins of military man, or student of military history in a meaningful way. The battle for arrakeen should have been somewhat of a challenge to the freeman, but, instead, it is a curb-stomp. *recall the Sardaukar dropped in BEHIND them-unclear how as we never see the structure, but, basically, they sucker punch the defenders from behind which is not what I would call a demonstration of elite skill either)
It felt to me like movie Sardaukar are just "the bad guys", nothing more. They are masked mooks who beat House Atreides, but against the Fremen and the Weirding Way, they aren't much threat.
I can't think of one faction in these movies that wasn't nerfed. I love them but the visual style of storytelling prevented many of their abilities from being shown because it would've required too much explanation. At least the Sardaukar didn't get nerfed into non existence like the mentats.
Another aspect that I believe was glossed over in the movies was the fact that in Fremen culture, for someone (especially a male) to survive to maturity and full adulthood, he had to be an excellent fighter, either able to defeat any challenger, or with a fearsome enough reputation to dissuade challengers. In Fremen combat, such as when Jamis challenged and defeated Geoff to "win" Harah as his wife, not only did Jamis claim Harah, but also Geoff's water. In a society where death by thirst is a major factor, desperate men would likely be challenging other men to combat simply for a chance to gain their water, to go along with all the other reasons (honor, leadership) that Fremen would fight amongst themselves. Therefore it would stand to reason that just about any adult Fremen warrior would be highly skilled in melee combat, or they would not have survived the brutal Darwinian process of fighting among their peers.
they made the Fremen a bit over-powered . they were unbeatable. it takes something out of the movies when one side is unstoppable.. they were treated in Dune part 2 much like the Golden Company were in the last season of Game of Thrones
The Sardaukar fall into the Worf trap. In Star Trek, Worf is seen as the most formidable fighter on the Enterprise, so the writers used him to show a genuine threat when he was easily defeated. They fell to using that as their litmus, making casual watchers conclude he was a pushover. The same happens with the Sardaukar in that they are only shown having setbacks, hence they must not be that formidable.
I think part one did a good job making them look awesome. In movies this big you can only spare so many scenes for world building so I’m happy they were included at all.
Why on earth would the imperial army put their most elite fighters in a massive open field?! And keep the fodder in the capital where the most important man in the universe is to be protected?! And what happened to those fighter jets that escorted the Emperor?
So the gist of it is that yes, the Sardaukar are hardass badasses but we are never shown that accordingly. Ala Stormtroopers in Star Wars supposedly being the creme de le creme of the Imperial Armed Forces yet being eliminated in droves by children and maintenance droids. This makes me want a Duneverse Mandalorian style show that explores other parts of the setting culminating in the deployment of a Sardaukar legion where we get to see them be the monsters they are hyped up to be.
I also feel the freeman weren't given enough credits as well. These people's were SAVAGE in conflict, we kinda got that from them siphoning water from enemies, but the Freeman are ELITE.
The Sarduakar had not faced a peer level threat in centuries. Their initial response to the Fremen was to view them as good sport. As Paul-Muad'dib trained and refined them, they became an even bigger challenge. They were driven off by the refugees of sietch Tabr in their refuge in the South where Leto II (then a babe in arms) was killed and Alia was captured (rather than face her Brother in failure). This was the first such defeat in generations...
I agree with Nerd Cookie on all accounts, but the video forgot to mention the most important thing about the victory of the Fremen over the Sardaukar: the Fremen were being led by a Prescient, so they've always fought against the enemy with tactical superiority.
cool video but tbh the comparison with Mongols doesnt really make sense - Mongols were already elite warriors of their time, invaders (while Fremen were (initially) defending their home planet) and had unique mounted archers I think better comparison would be Soviet-Afghan War or First Indochina War - in those conflicts you would have one side with huge resources, highly trained troops and technology advantage against another force who would have less trained troops but they would make up for it by the knowledge of the enviroment and dedication to the cause which would elevate their fighters way above the expected perfomance
After seeing how powerful they were in Part One, it would have helped to see some reason (implied or direct) for why the Fremen were suddenly able to wipe aside the Sardaukar so easily. In the book it’s because Paul taught them the weirding ways, but it didn’t seem to be touched on in the movies. The Fedaykin just seemed able to cut through them like butter.
Surprised you didn't mention the Algerian War for Independence from the French colonial empire as historical comparisons, since the phrase, "Long Live the Fighters!" was verbatim the chant of the revolutionaries, which Frank Herbert often allured to as a form of inspiration for Dune.
Excellent video as usual, i am most especially disappointed with Dune part 2, where the Saudukar are killed off screen. Generally Dune part 2 did not live up to Dune part 1, but I think that was lazy, and the Saudukar deserved better after their cool scenes in the first movie. I was hoping they would have some very high level fights between two mighty warriors, instead the fremen are just an angry mob and the saudukar dies off screen. Really sad that Frank's vision didn't get more taught than that.
A wonderful video, as always. I already wished that Dune had been a season long TV show. For the visuals if nothing else. But this makes me wish for that even more. It would have been nice to see the Sard winning a few times so their loss at the climax of the movie could have had more impact. Remember when Baron V and Thufir are talking: VH: but my own soldiers... TH: A group of holiday excursionists by comparison. Such great writing.
You give some historical parallels: a far more recognisable one is the battle of Yarmuk, where hitherto despised Arab Muslim forces defeated the mighty Byzantine empire. Herbert was as we know very interested in Islamic culture.
Thank you for this analysis. Your words ring true. I did think Dune part 1 made an effort to show the prowess of the Sardaukar in the scene on the stairs of Arakeen. 100s of Harkonnen stopped by scores of Atreides…only to be chopped down by a dozen Sardaukar. They do get the Stormtrooper Treatment after that tho. 😂
Pretty much everyone and everything was NERFED in the movies...the Fremen, Paul, the Sandworms and definitely the Sadaukar! At least they weren't completely forgotten like the Spacing guild or the Ixians!!!
The novels true...self was turfed, Villeneuves revisionist tripe is not faithful to the novels. It is rife with inaccuracies and outright revisionist changes.
If anything, I completely understand why the Desert War was such a short fight just like the Siege of Arrakeen in part 1. By the time part 2 came around, Paul had all the power to begin his Jihad and at that point it was just a slaughter rather than a military battle scene. While it was epic as Pelennor Fields and the Black Gate, I definitely wish that the Desert War was longer just to please the fans. That's why, in a sense, I prefer the Desert War in the miniseries because it treats it like a legit military battle scene [despite the small budget that the producers had].
I think my main issue with this version is that they really only focus on the Bene Geserit(hope i spelled that correctly) they don't even bother to introduce any of the other factions. And they did away with Thufir with 0 explanations while he was a major member of House Atradies.
I think pre Paul's training the film did a good job of setting the Sardukar troops as the elite of the Galaxy, it makes clear the Atredies level of martial prowess was being seen as a threat. It also makes clear even with superior numbers and surprise the Harkonnens did not think they could defeat the Atredies army with out the Sardukar and this was shown. It goes on to show the initial combat between Sardukar and Fremen as being evenly matched but mainly because the Fremen have home field advantage and the mastery of Arrakis environment as a combat multiplier. Duncan killing multiple Sardukar grunts doesnt make the Sardukar nerfed. Just a master combatant against elite but regular troops. So no, the film did not nerf the Sardukar.
Yeah, I think so. That's okay, except it takes away from how seriously formidable the Fremen were supposed to be. Jessica was nerfed a lot too. She needed to be a bad-ass.
I knew that Dune: Part 2 did not do the Sardaukar justice. If we had a brief scene of a handful of worn-out, shredded, and bloodied Sardarkaur warriors fighting to the last over a pile of freshly slain Fremen corpses, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we never got that.
I felt that the Harkonnens got an extreme power-up, and the Sardaukar were mostly forgotten about in the second film. I feel like there was a miscalculation made after reviews came in about the first film. Many people complained that it was too slow. However, it seems no one ever bothered to ask if they'd avoid a second film because the first felt too slow. A trilogy would have allowed the second film to show the Fremen being trained to fight the Harkonnens, and seeing them being driven back, hiding in the major cities. It could have given us a few years of Alia growing from an infant to a 3-year old. It could have given Jamis' funeral more respect, and we could have had one of my favorite characters: Harah (Jamis' wife). We could have gotten more about Fremen life, and the importance of the ecological transformation. There would have been plenty of action with the Fremen/Harkonnen battles. The thrid film would have been the climax, where we see sietches being attacked by Sardaukar (NOT Harkonnens), the death of Paul's son Leto, revelations about the spacing guild, a bad-ass Alia taking out the Baron, etc. I know many people new to the franchise love the second film, but I've been a hardcore fan since the 1980's, and the second film has just soured the first film for me. To have my expectations built up so high by the first film (a nearly flawless adaptation) only to be let down so hard by a film that felt rushed and made too many compromises. The only saving grace in the second film is the scene where Paul walks up to the Baron and says "Grandfather." In the novel, Paul talks about a path that would lead him to greeting the Baron by saying "Hello, Grandfather" and that path disgusted him. With the dropping of "Hello", I can accept that the second film is an alternate-universe version of Dune.
It was the singular problem i had with the newest dune movie.. it made them seem like amateurs,
2 месяца назад+4
All things considered, I do see your point and do agree to a degree. However I feel that villeneuve's adaptation of the sardukar was near perfect, compared to the other adaptations of the past, part 1 did a brilliant job. Part 2 was great at depicting the sardukar, maybe there could have been a short scene that shows the lethal mystique of the sardukar (like in part 1) somewhere; But on the other hand it could have been like overdoing it you know? But I understand what you mean. Perhaps instead of that shot where most of the sardukar troops are fleeing from the worm, in that shot they all freeze in place unsure of what to do... But eventually they all start walking forward with blades raised because they are trained to be suicidaly loyal, and they all get wiped out by shaai hulud! 🤦♂️🤷♂️
For reference, the Atreides troopers were stated in the book to have been trained by Gurney and Duncan to be almost as good as the Sardaukar, and the Fremen were stated to be a bit better than the Sardaukar.
If you want to read more, the blog A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry has a series of posts "The Fremen Mirage" which discuss in great length the trope that hard environments breed tough fighters. Written before the Villeneuve movies came out, but IMHO interesting.
It reminded me of dragon ball z where you thought this dude is unbeatable but than this other dude comes around and just wipe the floor with him and your like 'whaaa?' its typical power scaling anime shit
Seeing the Harkonnen forces getting smeared by the Atreides, who are in turn slaughtered by the Sardukaur was the only opportunity, and it was too brief to sell the notion that they were amazing.
I thought by this time the Sardukhar were a shadow of what they once were? That their organization had grown stagnate and complacent; relying more on their reputation and fear it induced.
FunFact -> the Sardaukar in the thumbnail for this video is the one who finished off Duncan Idaho in Dune 1, and is also seen looking up at the sandworm in the final battle in Dune 2
The Sardaukar are Loyal to the Emperor Through training and religion. The Emperor should have kept the money flowing to keep his elite at peak performance maybe they would have fared better. The Fremen as you mentioned are at a constant state of training Environmental and Physical so the Sardaukar were no match for them. The big Question is why was Feyd so hard to kill wasn't Paul skilled in the Weirding Way if so the match would have been more one sided. Great Video
I think they only appear nerfed due to how op the Fremen are portrayed in DUNE II as you mentioned. I think they should have included a brief scene of Paul teaching the Fremen the weirding way to show why the Fremen are now so strong
Yes, the fact that one of the reasons the Fremen got so good was their adopting the Weirding Way. All it would have taken was a short scene with Paul (or Jessica!) teaching a group of Fedayeen, and then maybe an even short line in another scene of a Harkonnen mentioning the "rats" had suddenly gotten better
@@CmdrSoup There was weirding way, Jessica used it in Part 1 vs Stilgar...and she probably did teach it to Paul...but there was not enough time in the film timeline to teach it to the Fremen
The problem with the movie (which follows the book in this regard) is that there is missing tension, as the Sardaukar pose no threat, they are no match to the friendlies. Also, the Sardaukar are cool, so we want them to be good and menacing. See Darth Vader as an example of this. But no, they are simply a pushover.
The Fremen are amazing fighters, but the Sardaukar are the most elite shock troops. True, the Sardaukar are eventually beaten in the books, but it was through either numbers or subterfuge, rarely a straight fight. It would have been a much better scene to have Paul enter the throne room with just a few battle weary Sardaukar surrounded by corpses of Fremen. Even in D1 they seemed nerfed when where Idaho took on so many of the most elite troops in the galaxy at the same time. The visuals looked great though including the brief glimpse of Salusa Secundus we got.
The Sardaukar fighting against the Atreides on Arrakis would have been a closer fight had it not been a two front backstab with the Harkonnens. But Sardaukar fighting Fremen on their home planet was not even close. Even off world, the Fremen carried out a Jihad against entire unified Imperial systems. Each Fremen fought with the skill and intensity of a fully trained Swordmaster of Ginaz.
No, the sardukar weren't nerfed and the fremen were already pretty formidable without the weirding way. But they were more of a device than an allegiant faction of house corrino. Part 2 was only disappointing in that the sarukar become all clean, no blood on there faces, and the scream "SARDUKAR!" before advancing. I would have found the scene far better if the sardukar had simply been "aware of what is getting ready to go down" and the captain speaks in sardukar to form a line and advance down the hall in the lauguage of salusa secundus. It's would have felt more authentic. but it seems denis got caught up in the moment.
To develop the Sardaukar you would have to show them at some point completely overwhelming some one. Was the taking down of the Atreides sufficient? Also, there is a scene out of the book which due to the shortening of Paul's time among the fremen did not get put in. That is where the Sardaukar raided a sietch and nearly got their ass handed to them by women and children.
The new Dune movies are great but the story is so complex that for a better, and more accurate, production we'd need a high-budget TV Series with many seasons. Like Game of Thrones. I think the audience would welcome that.
By the time the Mongols encountered European knights, they had conquered substantial parts of Asia - those Mongols were not underdogs but the soldiers of one of the largest land based Empires in human history.
I think it is less that the Sardaukar are nerferd and more that the Fremen under the leadership of a Kwisatz Haderach like Paul Atreides are ridiculously OP. The Fremen are a fighting force 10 thousand years in the making. The Sarduakar are from 1 harsh planet. The whole history of the Fremen is them being dumped on barren worlds, figuring out how to live there and toughening up, then being enslaved by a warlord from one of the great houses to serve as a slave army, then the survivors being dumped on a fresh barren world to scratch out a living and repeat. The Fremen used to live on the planet the Sarduakar are from - they already beat that level. Then you have Paul Atreides, human cheat code. He has the accumulated memories of a line of warlords, kings, emperors, generals, etc going back to the dawn of humanity. He has the mentat training to be able to access his memories like a computer and to be able to think and plan blisteringly fast. He's been trained to control his body at a cellular level and can use that training to boost his speed, stamina, pain resistence, poison resistence, etc. He's been trained by the standout best swordsmen and tacticians of the age. He's been trained in languages, religions, and the insane galactic brainwashing tools of the Bene Geserit He can see the future so he literally knows what people are going to do before they do it and can counter them well in advance. The Sarduakar are good soldiers. Better than any in the rest of the Galaxy even. Scary even to large savage forces like the Harkonnen, or to small highly professional and skilled forces like the Atreides. But Fremen? Plus Cheat Code Paul? Makes them look like damp tissue. And Paul isn't even the most OP human in the Dune universe.
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Great video again NC...Imo one of the clearest historical parallels to Paul and the Fremen defeating the Sardaukar, was Hannibal the Carthaginian (he was my favorite historical general, so i know a lil about his history and the Punic Wars)....Hannibal did not rely on ambushes and guerrilla tactics...His army was the first to defeat the previously undefeated Roman legions in open battle...several times Hannibal routed the Romans in open battle, while heavily outnumbered....he was known for his brilliant, unpredictable tactics (similar to Paul, using atomics against the Shield Wall)...even his Roman general opponents, and later Roman historians, praised Hannibal's tactics...and I understand some of his tactics are still studied in war colleges to this day....another connection, Hannibal had his War Elephants (similar to Shai-Hulud) which was really the ancient world's equivalent of a tank...Trained and armored fighting elephants, with towers on top filled with archers...the Romans had never encountered anything like that....the real irony of the Punic Wars was, the previously unbeatable Roman soldiers were forced to resort to guerrilla warfare vs Hannibal...ambushes and hit and run tactics, attacking supply lines, etc....because Hannibal was marching on Rome itself, with all his elephants, and had become unstoppable in open battle
i think we should have seen more fremen get killed by the sardaukar. they still lose but the fight shouldn't be so one sided.
It wasn’t like that in the books though. They called them good fighters, and but the sardukar still died 10 for 1 against the fremen.
The sardukar ultimately were nothing compared to the Freman.
My impression was there were a lot more Fremen than Sardaukar. So, a big advantage in numbers, and parity in quality. And the worms helped.
@@codename495 Well not in this book, but for the sake of setting up Messiah it would have been a nice touch. There were a lot of things in Part 1 of this movie I saw and thought, 'why did they go that route?' and it only made sense once I saw part 2. The people hurt by Pauls' Jihad are a big part of the story in Messiah, honestly seems like a decent place for a setup.
@@codename495sardaukar are all natural and fremen have generations with drug enhancement remember spice prolonged life, gave some visions of the future, and remember there used for pilots to travel the stars human calculators is what they are and remember in our time to prolong you life usually requires a lot of physical fitness and the drug spices kind of does that to you so sardaukar are truly strong and worth of there reputation freman are just people in the Olympics that take drugs to win it the sardaukar had access to this and had exposure like fremand then the sardaukar would be beating a child for how good they are
One of the things why I like Dune Part 1 more is the Sardaukars. They were menacing and that throat singing was top notch. Was expecting something like that or even more menacing for Part 2. Unfortunately, it didn't happen.
The same happened with Beast Rabban. In Part One,he was a threat, in Part Two he became a coward
In 2 Fayd's attack on the sietch was a Sardaukar attack in the book. Plus they killed Paul and Chani's first son, which they didn't have in the movie.
Yeah they could put a 2 secs fight scene instead of
CUT BLACK THEY ARE DEAD OFFSCREEN
We have more Lisanalgaib scenes of Stilgar than knife battles 😂
Exactly. I get that they were supposed to lose. I was still bothered when the last squad literally walked into the mist and were done, no sword clashing or anything.
Pretty much the only thing I disliked about Dune Part II was indeed the Sardaukar nerf, like we didn't get to see the Emperor's guardsmen wield those Kriegsmesser longswords against the Fremen, they just died off screen :/
This could have been resolved easily by adding an extra fight scene where Duncan (the specimen of what a fighter should be capable of) fights Harkonnens during the siege of Arrakeen (and carves through them like a knife through butter) BUT showing him having a visibly harder time against the Sardaukar when he sacrifices himself. This way everyone would have an idea of the overall strength of each faction.
They kinda did that with the staircase scene in part one. The Harkonnen relied solely on numbers without any sort of battle tactics in mind. A small line of Atreides held them off without taking any heavy losses, if any at all. The Sardaukar had the drop on the Atreides but no Harkonnen interfered. The Atreides didn't even stand a chance. What could have worked would to take your concept and add it to part two. The Second Battle for Arrakis led by Gurney would've been PERFECT to show the difference in power scales but the battle was rushed
For me, the novel best conveys Sardukar's power by showing how much they scare the Harkonnen soldiers and the Baron himself.
@@jaccobmarrero6021 yeah, during that scene where the Sardaukar are destroying the Atreides, you get the sense that the Harkonnen forces stayed back because they were afraid the Sardaukar might kill some of them just for being in the way.
I knew that Dune: Part 2 did not do the Sardaukar justice. If we had a brief scene of a handful of worn-out, shredded, and bloodied Sardarkaur warriors fighting to the last over a pile of freshly slain Fremen corpses, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we never got that.
They had exactly this scene when Duncan carves up a (maybe 2) Harconnens and then the rest of them let him take the ornathopter because they know even with their numbers they have no chance.
They Nerfed the Sardukar, the Emperor, the Harkonens, and Piter De Vries! They also cut the Spacing Guild and Alia completely in the sequel
I was so completely disappointed by the lack of Piter De Vries.
Even though 'New' Dune is overall better, 'Old' Dune (extended) does a better job of giving screen time to tertiary characters that had their own big influence on the story.
What irked me in the first movie was that the Sardaukar were dressed distinctly from the Harkonnen troops. The whole point was to HIDE them... oh well...
Also, in both movies but especially the second I never got the feeling that anybody was special. Not the Fremen, not the Sardaukar and not Paul.
Paul fought together with the Fremen, but never was it shown that he is special.
When you read the books you get the feeling that people like Paul are uber-humans. Bred and trained vigorously for their whole life and no normal human being can compare to them.
Yet in the movies they seemed capable, but not nearly as much as described in the books.
That was what left me with mixed feelings after seeing Dune, especially Part 2.
I knew that Dune: Part 2 did not do the Sardaukar justice. If we had a brief scene of a handful of worn-out, shredded, and bloodied Sardarkaur warriors fighting to the last over a pile of freshly slain Fremen corpses, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we never got that.
I don’t know but I do kind of get where your coming from it was very season 8 GOT with the whole focusing on the I don’t want it aspect. That’s what I like about the Lynch version from the beginning you can tell Paul is very much different with a whole lot of potential maybe Kyle McLaughlin just played it better. I just think there’s more of an aura to his portrayal than Chalamet’s.
@@henners8910 It seems like Villeneuve went out of his way not to incorporate much of the weirding ways into part 2, not really sure why because they set it up in part 1 like they were going to build on it. I think I recall him using the voice maybe twice in the entire movie, once at the finale scene. And thinking about it, I can't even recall a representation of the super human movement in either movie.
If he does Messiah faithfully, eventually he's going to have to grapple with this. I'm pretty sure it's only through his Weirding way teachings he manages to prevent a pretty huge part of the plot line. We'll see!
The thing is, the Dune series has many plot holes, Sardaukar being one of them. Yes, they have grown compliant and all of the things you (and many others) have mentioned. But we are talking about the battle for the entire planet - those do not get resolved in a battle or two. Even if the Sardaukar are all those things, the army with basically unlimited resources at their disposal woudl relatively fast fix those things over the course of several months and would wipe the floor with Fremen - people on a desert planet with extremely limited resources and tech that needs to be brought off-world.
People can talk about the Fremen being excellent fighters due to their life conditions and spice - but in war, logistics is king. They might win 1:1 fight against anyone. Here, we are talking about a military with unlimited resources, fighting for the literally the most important place in the galaxy. There is no snowball's chance in hell Fremen would win that conflict. Which is why Herbert does not spend too much time explaining it, and the films showing it - because it does not make any sense.
We had examples of large powerful armies getting compliant and fat... all it took were a few battlefield defeats to have them wake up, kick in the high gear and wreck havoc on the enemy who thought they can take them on.
Damn this is a huge point that I, and other people should've thought about.
Sadly the Sarduakar were an afterthought in the movies. Unless you read the books, they were just another soldier fighting a war on a desert planet.
@@d-_-b8558 did I hurt your feelings? It’ll be ok.
@@thesean3194I think it's your feelings that were hurt 🤔
@@M4tt888_ naw. I just hate patronizing dips.
@@M4tt888_I mean did that first terd really need to passive aggressively say “it’ll be okay” ?
Sounds like we should be on Sean’s side with this and condemn the text-shaped-like-monkey-emoji boy
The Sardaukar got 'punked', not 'nerfed'
I feel like Dune pt1 &2 should have been a high budget tv show! At no point I felt the Sardukar were fearsome when Paul lead the offensive.
We had an awesome tease in pt1 with the war chant and blood ritual!
The Second Movie completely dropped the Ball with the timeline six months rather than three years and the Sardaukar. In the first Movie the Sardaukar were elite, like having a legion of Navy Seals. In the second movie they were a National Guard unit on a Barbecue at the Beach. Complete let down we didn't even get to see the Imperial Bodyguards die bravely.
I knew that Dune: Part 2 did not do the Sardaukar justice. If we had a brief scene of a handful of worn-out, shredded, and bloodied Sardarkaur warriors fighting to the last over a pile of freshly slain Fremen corpses, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we never got that.
Yes, especially the casual way Paul says, "Kill the Sardaukar. Bring the prisoners to the reception area", like "Give this place a good dust"
@@Trenex1000 The Sardaukar got punked...in the film and the book...Deal with It
@@koko40800
They could have stretched a few things to make the fight between the two groups more interesting; that’s really all I wanted.
@@Trenex1000 So the film is supposed to veer from the book's storyline and glorify the Sardaukar more? For the sake of Sardaukar fanboys? If that's what you want, go back to your YT tributes you probably already watched countless times....I couldn't believe how many millions of views, and slavishly adoring comments, were on some of those pages
Literally everything was nerfed by making a 3 year period in the book last about 3 months. 0 time to naturally develop anything at all. I'm still mad that stilgar became comedic relief in part 2.
Thanks. You took the thought out of my head. Why was Stilgar treated this way? What did the ditector think he was achieving by making Stilgar provide comic relief?
@@caspasesumo I highkey don't get his vision of dune. The changes he made fundamentally tell a different story. Paul kills the wounded baron in cold fucking blood. That's just, not what he would do lmao plus the whole "im not talented enough to use that character, so she doesn't exist yet" part of the movie is ass.
Lisam al gaib!! 😂😂😂 But since we know Javier Bardem in Spain, I like him better like this.
@@mikiroony Javier is such a good actor. It's a shame he got wasted as one of the best characters in literature
Right from the first shot, Stilgar looked and acted more like some homeless guy instead of a fearsome desert leader.
Beast Rabban was also nerfed, dude became a little baby for some reason.
yeah personally i felt like he went out badly with that whip at the end with gurney, i had thought if they were gonna show those two going up against each other it would have been a better, longer fight. i felt like hed have not been a match for gurney but would have lasted longer
Definitely he was almost a comedy figure
@@RubyMarkLindMillyHe had comedic moments in the prequels, but then he also had truly brutal moments.
Yeah, from what I read I doubt the 'real' Rabban would let Feyd to humilate him.
In Heir of Caladan, Feyd mocked him and Rabban's answer was to beat Feyd. Feyd almost started a fight but finally it didn't happen.
The reason was Feyd. In the movie, he became the biggest antagonist. What is book accurate in some ways....but in my opinion the book didn't really build up Feyd as Paul's dark mirror. It started but then Feyd became irrevelant and he just appeared in the final fight.
Feyd is more scary if he even humilates the Beast, I guess this was the reason.
The bloodletting ritual was the highpoint of Sardaukar screen presentations, although I would've liked to have seen more of the nuclear hellscape that is Salusa Secundus.
I never could take the giant chef hats seriously in the Sci-Fi Channel mini series, and although I'm not really a fan of the white Sardaukar uniforms, they're still the best ones we've seen.
I really do hope that we get to see the radio-controlled mutant attack tigers and hidden shigawire garrotes in a future project.
Yes, those hats definitely didn't exactly serve to accentuate their - masculinity, shall we say?
I think the sarduakar defeat is significantly due to their hubris. No doubt that they were the best fighting forces the universe had to offer for a long time, but having that mentality of "No one can challenge us" ultimately lead to their defeat.
Also wth are they going to do against a giant worm?
The problem was that there was no weirding way in Villeneuve movies . Bene Gesserit depiction was a joke , no prana Bindu, no ultra vision. Just the voice . Jessica surrendering to her feeliings the whole time.
I mean the weirding way is ultra speed (like the tv) so IS very difficult to show without being silly
They could put the same moves as the dream Battle of Paul were he does weird arm tricks to kill the soldiers in Dune part 1
@@Morfe02 if you have 200 millions budget I'm sure you can find the way. Plus , there was no significant difference between Paul's fighting style and the rest of antagonists
And losing control of bodily functions, so not Dune. What, Villeneuve trying to wreck Dune like the other putz did?
Dude Jessica demonstrated prana bindu fighting techniques in her fight against Stilgar in Part 1...when she ended up holding his own knife to his neck
@@koko40800 dude ....Villeneuve also made her a weak stomached fop...throwing up , that's not Prana Bindu training, not even a little...
One of the problems is that in the movie, Paul does not teach the Fremen the weirding way.
In short: they do not get their upgrade, hence it appears they do not need it, which downgrades the Sardaukar.
The reason was probably, that they (due to "modern" political concerns) feared to legitimize him as a "white savior character" (which is also why these massive changes to Shani), but at the same time they do not seem to reflect that they downgrade the Bene Geserit, whose secret martial arts powers these were, thereby downgrading the females (which funnily should also be against their "modern" political concerns), instead of just sticking to the source material.
Not even Paul knew the weirding way. It's been totally banned in the film.
Chani, not Shani...revisionism starts just like that.
I believe Villeneuve addressed this in interviews and stated that the weirding way was mainly cut due to time to in an already long script/story, and he chose to focus on Paul and Jessica's struggle/transformations and the larger theme of how religious fervor can galvanize a culture/society into massive world changing action, which was actually one of Herbert's main takeaways.
Tbh if they were soooo worried about "white" savior complex why didnt they just make chani and paul atriedes middle eastern? It would work especially the significant middle east influence in story
@@jmgonzales7701 Paul as described was a small for his age kid, dark hair, fair complexion of Greek descent, Chani was a Freman girl, they were of the "zensunni" tribes, as you say, "middle eastern", Gurney Halleck was a huge guy( like Momoa), Idaho was of average build and size, not a meathead oaf like Momoa...
So awesome they lasted 2 minutes in the final battle. The final battle was so dumb, it's like they realized they were running out of money while making number 2. Really ruined the whole movie.
More like they "kill" the Guy Who made the choreography of sword battles, is the last soldier that Feyd kills 1 vs 1 for the record
Because they could made a 2 secs fight against Paul and his Fremen instead of BLACK SCREEN
Frank Herbert attributed it to overconfidence from always being the winner. Paul was going to incorporate losing into his training program. Also, the Fremen were beating the Sardaukar before learning the weirding way. The scene where the Fremen was telling Thufir about capturing the cannon. The cannon was guarded by 100 Sardaukar.
5:05 a more apt comparison would have been the rise of islam, when 7th century arabs roaming the dunes as Bedouins, who just converted to the then new religion, consistently triumphed over the forces of both Eastern Roman & Sassanid Empires in spite of overwhelming odds.
6:10 ... Amazing that they got Ridley Scott to play a Sardaukar.
Thanks Elaine, id say yes they were ,
I knew that Dune: Part 2 did not do the Sardaukar justice. If we had a brief scene of a handful of worn-out, shredded, and bloodied Sardarkaur warriors fighting to the last over a pile of freshly slain Fremen corpses, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we never got that.
'Punked', "Eliminated', 'Massacred', 'Obliterated'...all of these words would be more appropriate than 'nerfed'...and it's all faithful to the book folks
@@koko40800 how iis it faithful ? With no detail, they didn't even get the number of sardukar right, both battles and they never said why they are special
The moment the scrawny chani killed a few Sardaukar in melee combat without any effort ruined the Sardaukar for me. When Duncan did it it was already pushing my suspense of disbelief but he was a legendary warrior, not a teenage girl no matter how harsh the environment she grew up in is.
I also wonder how fremen will handle themselves in areas where they have zero experience, such as spacecombat, urban areas, sea battles, swamps, mountainous terrain, frost and snowy areas. Their skillset is perfectly tailored to their surroundings, take that away and i wonder if for example the Sardaukar or local forces will fight on more equal footing.
Yes. Typical Mary Sue and girl boss crap.
I was thinking perhaps Paul taught Chani a little prana bindu...those upside down kicks, etc
@@koko40800 If so it would have been nice to see that on screen. Paul teaching the fremen but as stated in this video its missing from the movie.
@@origami83 Because the timeline was too short (less than a year) for Paul to teach all the fremen...but he and Chani were lovers, so he probably taught her a few things
I felt the Sardaukar were definitely nerfed in the second Dune film.
They Nerf the battles, sword battles
In the books they are going to last 2 secs because the Fremen are ultra-kill
The Sardaukar on Arrakis were massacred to the last man...in the books and the film...that's not getting nerfed, that is literally getting eliminated...I warned all you Sardaukar fanboys this would happen after Part 1, when you were all drooling and getting erections over your YT Sardaukar tributes...but you didn't want to listen...now you cry that your crush boys didn't get a more valiant or difficult death... you boys really love your Men in Uniform!...I mean, Reeeeally Love them
It was the Muslims, not the Mongols, who eventually ousted the Knight Templars from the Levant. The Muslims being closer to the culture of the Fremen on Arrakis.
You were right in matching the Mongols up with the Teutonic Knights.
Teutonic Knights ware outed also on Polish lands ...check Castle of Malbork. Poland had a lot of problems with them and ...had to take steps.
@@DeepInsideZettaiRyouiki Yes!
That's what I meant, when I wrote: "You were right in matching the Mongols up with the Teutonic Knights."
We were given glimpses in the movie but not enough in my opinion
I think the films portrayed a more opportunistic battle plan from the fremen. One which they acted separately and not as a unified people. At the end of part 2 this changes as the entire fremen population is mobilized and attacking under the fire of religious fervor combined with their native and hardy traits for battle. So it made sense that the saardukar would be swept aside. Or at least that was my read of how it was presented.
Exactly. It was a realistic portrayal of the massacre and rout it was...but these fanboys wanted to see more Hollywood, B movie shyte, the Sardaukar dying bravely at the end surrounded by 'piles of fremen corpses' (with bagpipes playing?)
🔸️The Sarduakar were indeed nerfed...
🔸️The Mentats _weren't even_ given the dignity of being named/identified aloud! [[ ...I'm serious. Anyone can go rewatch the movie to see whether I'm mistaken. I'd gladly bet some money (( _if_ I had _any_ money )) against my claim that the term 'Mentat' isn't even spoken aloud!!! ]]
🔸️The Spacing Guild, whilst mentioned -- but only twice, maybe thrice, at the very most; in passing only -- weren't even slightly explained to the audience, regarding their relevance...
This all seems to be _entirely deliberate_ by Denis Villeneuve... In retrospect, I feel that I can only conclude as such...
_....Now, as to why, if indeed it was premeditated?!?_ Well... I have a notion that it could be that he seems to want further the 'Progessive' agenda, to be more precise, the 3rd-Wave Intersectionalist Feminism agenda _but, without demonstrating such, as obviously..._
BtW; for whatever it's worth:..
I (only) vaguely recall some commentary by him when asked a probing question upon aspects of the setting and themes. Sadly, I cannot recall the source, let alone the precise wording in his statements, but I _do_ remember the tone and subtext within them -- an intense mindfulness of the significance and impact of the women and their roles in the script and overall story; _to be more precise, to put them into nearly the focal point..._ For me, it was a red flag that wouldn't subside/recede...
They did just seem so weak. Also wtf happened to shields?!
Shields hit by lasguns turn into nukes (so does the lasgun that hits them). The Fremen love to exploit this.
Also the Fremen ride into battle on worms, and worms are drawn to shields and try to eat them.
So shield users risk either being turned into nukes, or eaten by woms. Most choose to just turn off the shield.
I have not read the books, only seen the tv and film adaptations. It makes sense to me the Fremen would be so formidable. Spice, Warrior culture, Harsh environs. Then you add the Religious fervor and training under Paul's prescience. The Sardukar stood no chance on Dune.
The Sardaukar and Fremen are far-cousins (Suní Wanderers are a tribe of People that travel a lot of planets, in the history inside the book they put a little of info about this, and they travel Arrakis and others Saluda Secundus) and they are raised in same conditions (harsh enviroment and extreme fanatism)
The only differences are the skills of no shield fighting, the mentality of tribe meanwhile the Sardaukar are like vikings/berserks, the genetics since the Sardaukar are prisioners and the weirding way reach by Paul, i dont know how to explain but is like ultra-speed or the control of the body
I certainly thought so, by watching the movies.
They should have been given one scene to show how Bad Ass they were. Instead, the fremen seemed to quite easily kill them (either through a sniping ambush or just hand to hand in the desert).
I am currently reading a book called the Shares of Paradise by Lesley Branch. It is about Muslim warriors in the Caucuses in the 19th Century. It came out in 1960. Herbert drew a lot on this book for Fremen Culture and tactics.
My grandmother was a Bruce, but I never thought once that the Fremen were based on Scottish freedom fighters.
Sabres of paradise
I agree I think there were several historical events that Herbert more likely drew from, rather than Scottish freedom fighters
The question is: did they nerf the sardaukar?
The question should be: Were sardaukar even in the movie?
And that is also your answer.
They could've just as well not mentioned them at all and it would've made no difference for the movie...
Indeed. If I recall correctly, while the Fremen treated Harkonnen troops with contempt, they treated the Sarduakaur with respect
To be sure, I was hoping the movies would show them as much more formidable and deadly. When they fought Duncan, they just sort of fell at his feet. It was disappointing to see them depicted as so banal.
In the book it mentions that one of the emperors motives might have been that the Atreideis had developed a way to train their military to a comparable level. I don't see how else they were supposed to be portrayed. As formidable as they are...they are out matched in the books.
part 2 felt diluted, unfocused and exhausted..part one was focused, well crafted and perfected..that being said i am a fan of all involved here and will definitely watch dune 3
I agree. Everyone seems to talking about how part 2 is next level compared to part one, I definitely disagree. So does my dad lol.
No really.
The Sardukar were a not what they once were. They were still potent but the Freman consistently busted their shit open
to me they always more closely mirrored spartans. mongols had different battle tactics, the stirrups and the bows and tactics they allowed others werent use to, alexander and the greeks had the phalanx and his generalship. but its hard to show in a movie cut down for time, you have to show the harkonnens as being brutal or they arent much as an adversary, then the atreides troops as far beyond them but a notch below the sardukar, then the fremen above them and with time constrains and cutting out things like the raid that killed pauls first sons where they barely escaped with alia while basically fighting old men and women, its difficult. i feel like they were nerfed but to me it is what it is within the constraints of the movies time, i still enjoyed the movie
Thank, you, Nerd Cookies.
Yes, one of several aspects of the film I disliked. I’m ok with a relatively quick battle owing to Muad’Dib’s prescience but I hoped for at least a better showing from Sardaukar troops.
Only a few extra scenes or changes were needed to enhance Sardaukar presence: A reminder of the intense Sardaukar loyalty to the Emperor, perhaps in a short scene with Shaddam when he’s first introduced. (this also helps flesh out Shaddam’s character. As it is, it’s rich of him calling Leto “a weak man” when, in the film, he’s seemingly only a puppet of the BG.)
Then, when on Arrakis, some use of battle tactics other than a blind bum-rush at the Fremen. Imagine the spectacle of disciplined, formed up Sardaukar holding for a few moments only to be overrun by Fremen fanaticism. It makes the victory more impressive.
As for the guys on the Shield Wall side…tough luck there. Shai-Hulud>
I did like the imagery of the imperial guard marching into the sand only to be replaced by Fedaykin though.
When Yueh brought down the Duke, the first "Harkonnen" he meets is a Sardaukar in Harkonnen livery who comments (contemptuously) _"So, that's the 'Red Duke'"._ and Yueh knows that is the Emperor's nickname for Duke Leto and he's facing a Sardaukar. It seems that the Sardaukar were already getting sloppy as the seeming ease of the victory over the Duke's forces invited cockiness, which cost them later. Pride before the fall, and all that.
2:42 I thought that was a dinosaur biting some guys back, thought I'd missed the dinos in the books lol.
In the movie version, Paul and Jessica couldn’t have had time to “level up” the Fremen. Part 2 couldn’t have spanned more than 6 or 8 months - known due to Alia being in the womb the whole time - as opposed to the multi-year time jump in the book. You don’t just instantly master BG muscle control techniques. It doesn’t feel like enough time for Gurney to have settled in as a smuggler, either. (Also, remember that Fremen blood almost instantly coagulates, which would allow them to shrug off wounds that would cause regular humans to bleed out.)
Do you or anyone else remember seeing any kind of examples of the Sardaukar prowess except for that brief and small 'battle' in p1?* I dont, in p2, the Sardaukar force (whose numbers are never mentioned), are just a cgi army that gets wiped out mostly, off-screen. Even semi-soft elite troops are going to present a challenge to ANY force, even the freeman. The goofy DV movie, turns them into a red-shirt army and the freeman roll them, with apparently, no looses or challenge worth putting on screen. I attribute this to fact that FH was not any kins of military man, or student of military history in a meaningful way. The battle for arrakeen should have been somewhat of a challenge to the freeman, but, instead, it is a curb-stomp.
*recall the Sardaukar dropped in BEHIND them-unclear how as we never see the structure, but, basically, they sucker punch the defenders from behind which is not what I would call a demonstration of elite skill either)
It felt to me like movie Sardaukar are just "the bad guys", nothing more. They are masked mooks who beat House Atreides, but against the Fremen and the Weirding Way, they aren't much threat.
what weirding way?
that was not in the film at all
I can't think of one faction in these movies that wasn't nerfed. I love them but the visual style of storytelling prevented many of their abilities from being shown because it would've required too much explanation. At least the Sardaukar didn't get nerfed into non existence like the mentats.
Another aspect that I believe was glossed over in the movies was the fact that in Fremen culture, for someone (especially a male) to survive to maturity and full adulthood, he had to be an excellent fighter, either able to defeat any challenger, or with a fearsome enough reputation to dissuade challengers. In Fremen combat, such as when Jamis challenged and defeated Geoff to "win" Harah as his wife, not only did Jamis claim Harah, but also Geoff's water. In a society where death by thirst is a major factor, desperate men would likely be challenging other men to combat simply for a chance to gain their water, to go along with all the other reasons (honor, leadership) that Fremen would fight amongst themselves. Therefore it would stand to reason that just about any adult Fremen warrior would be highly skilled in melee combat, or they would not have survived the brutal Darwinian process of fighting among their peers.
they made the Fremen a bit over-powered . they were unbeatable. it takes something out of the movies when one side is unstoppable.. they were treated in Dune part 2 much like the Golden Company were in the last season of Game of Thrones
The Sardaukar fall into the Worf trap. In Star Trek, Worf is seen as the most formidable fighter on the Enterprise, so the writers used him to show a genuine threat when he was easily defeated. They fell to using that as their litmus, making casual watchers conclude he was a pushover. The same happens with the Sardaukar in that they are only shown having setbacks, hence they must not be that formidable.
I think part one did a good job making them look awesome. In movies this big you can only spare so many scenes for world building so I’m happy they were included at all.
Why on earth would the imperial army put their most elite fighters in a massive open field?!
And keep the fodder in the capital where the most important man in the universe is to be protected?!
And what happened to those fighter jets that escorted the Emperor?
So the gist of it is that yes, the Sardaukar are hardass badasses but we are never shown that accordingly. Ala Stormtroopers in Star Wars supposedly being the creme de le creme of the Imperial Armed Forces yet being eliminated in droves by children and maintenance droids.
This makes me want a Duneverse Mandalorian style show that explores other parts of the setting culminating in the deployment of a Sardaukar legion where we get to see them be the monsters they are hyped up to be.
I also feel the freeman weren't given enough credits as well. These people's were SAVAGE in conflict, we kinda got that from them siphoning water from enemies, but the Freeman are ELITE.
The Sarduakar had not faced a peer level threat in centuries. Their initial response to the Fremen was to view them as good sport. As Paul-Muad'dib trained and refined them, they became an even bigger challenge. They were driven off by the refugees of sietch Tabr in their refuge in the South where Leto II (then a babe in arms) was killed and Alia was captured (rather than face her Brother in failure). This was the first such defeat in generations...
The end of the movie felt very rushed.
I agree with Nerd Cookie on all accounts, but the video forgot to mention the most important thing about the victory of the Fremen over the Sardaukar: the Fremen were being led by a Prescient, so they've always fought against the enemy with tactical superiority.
Still not comfortable with the casual use of Lasguns and possible shield interactions in the DV movie
cool video but tbh the comparison with Mongols doesnt really make sense - Mongols were already elite warriors of their time, invaders (while Fremen were (initially) defending their home planet) and had unique mounted archers
I think better comparison would be Soviet-Afghan War or First Indochina War - in those conflicts you would have one side with huge resources, highly trained troops and technology advantage against another force who would have less trained troops but they would make up for it by the knowledge of the enviroment and dedication to the cause which would elevate their fighters way above the expected perfomance
After seeing how powerful they were in Part One, it would have helped to see some reason (implied or direct) for why the Fremen were suddenly able to wipe aside the Sardaukar so easily. In the book it’s because Paul taught them the weirding ways, but it didn’t seem to be touched on in the movies. The Fedaykin just seemed able to cut through them like butter.
Surprised you didn't mention the Algerian War for Independence from the French colonial empire as historical comparisons, since the phrase, "Long Live the Fighters!" was verbatim the chant of the revolutionaries, which Frank Herbert often allured to as a form of inspiration for Dune.
Dune: The Sardaukar were nerfed.
Star Wars Stormtrooper: Hold my E-11.
it always has been said that Dune is a next to impossible novel(along with others)to adapt cinematically...
Excellent video as usual, i am most especially disappointed with Dune part 2, where the Saudukar are killed off screen. Generally Dune part 2 did not live up to Dune part 1, but I think that was lazy, and the Saudukar deserved better after their cool scenes in the first movie.
I was hoping they would have some very high level fights between two mighty warriors, instead the fremen are just an angry mob and the saudukar dies off screen. Really sad that Frank's vision didn't get more taught than that.
A wonderful video, as always.
I already wished that Dune had been a season long TV show. For the visuals if nothing else. But this makes me wish for that even more.
It would have been nice to see the Sard winning a few times so their loss at the climax of the movie could have had more impact.
Remember when Baron V and Thufir are talking:
VH: but my own soldiers...
TH: A group of holiday excursionists by comparison.
Such great writing.
You give some historical parallels: a far more recognisable one is the battle of Yarmuk, where hitherto despised Arab Muslim forces defeated the mighty Byzantine empire. Herbert was as we know very interested in Islamic culture.
Thank you for this analysis. Your words ring true. I did think Dune part 1 made an effort to show the prowess of the Sardaukar in the scene on the stairs of Arakeen. 100s of Harkonnen stopped by scores of Atreides…only to be chopped down by a dozen Sardaukar. They do get the Stormtrooper Treatment after that tho. 😂
Pretty much everyone and everything was NERFED in the movies...the Fremen, Paul, the Sandworms and definitely the Sadaukar! At least they weren't completely forgotten like the Spacing guild or the Ixians!!!
Every faction was nerfed at one point or another in the films.
Truth
exactly
All too damningly true, and the source of many lore brain cramps.
It would be very difficult to find actors and stunt people that could actually move as quickly as a sardukar or a fremen lol
The novels true...self was turfed, Villeneuves revisionist tripe is not faithful to the novels. It is rife with inaccuracies and outright revisionist changes.
If anything, I completely understand why the Desert War was such a short fight just like the Siege of Arrakeen in part 1. By the time part 2 came around, Paul had all the power to begin his Jihad and at that point it was just a slaughter rather than a military battle scene. While it was epic as Pelennor Fields and the Black Gate, I definitely wish that the Desert War was longer just to please the fans. That's why, in a sense, I prefer the Desert War in the miniseries because it treats it like a legit military battle scene [despite the small budget that the producers had].
I think my main issue with this version is that they really only focus on the Bene Geserit(hope i spelled that correctly) they don't even bother to introduce any of the other factions. And they did away with Thufir with 0 explanations while he was a major member of House Atradies.
Feels like the entirety of the latest movies were nerfed
It is important to realize that shields have limited benefit on dune so the sardukar had limitations due to training and equipment based on terrain
I think pre Paul's training the film did a good job of setting the Sardukar troops as the elite of the Galaxy, it makes clear the Atredies level of martial prowess was being seen as a threat. It also makes clear even with superior numbers and surprise the Harkonnens did not think they could defeat the Atredies army with out the Sardukar and this was shown. It goes on to show the initial combat between Sardukar and Fremen as being evenly matched but mainly because the Fremen have home field advantage and the mastery of Arrakis environment as a combat multiplier. Duncan killing multiple Sardukar grunts doesnt make the Sardukar nerfed. Just a master combatant against elite but regular troops.
So no, the film did not nerf the Sardukar.
Yeah, I think so. That's okay, except it takes away from how seriously formidable the Fremen were supposed to be. Jessica was nerfed a lot too. She needed to be a bad-ass.
What I wanna know is whether the power level of either the Sardaukar or the Fremen is over 9000
I knew that Dune: Part 2 did not do the Sardaukar justice. If we had a brief scene of a handful of worn-out, shredded, and bloodied Sardarkaur warriors fighting to the last over a pile of freshly slain Fremen corpses, then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we never got that.
I felt that the Harkonnens got an extreme power-up, and the Sardaukar were mostly forgotten about in the second film.
I feel like there was a miscalculation made after reviews came in about the first film. Many people complained that it was too slow. However, it seems no one ever bothered to ask if they'd avoid a second film because the first felt too slow.
A trilogy would have allowed the second film to show the Fremen being trained to fight the Harkonnens, and seeing them being driven back, hiding in the major cities. It could have given us a few years of Alia growing from an infant to a 3-year old. It could have given Jamis' funeral more respect, and we could have had one of my favorite characters: Harah (Jamis' wife). We could have gotten more about Fremen life, and the importance of the ecological transformation. There would have been plenty of action with the Fremen/Harkonnen battles.
The thrid film would have been the climax, where we see sietches being attacked by Sardaukar (NOT Harkonnens), the death of Paul's son Leto, revelations about the spacing guild, a bad-ass Alia taking out the Baron, etc.
I know many people new to the franchise love the second film, but I've been a hardcore fan since the 1980's, and the second film has just soured the first film for me. To have my expectations built up so high by the first film (a nearly flawless adaptation) only to be let down so hard by a film that felt rushed and made too many compromises.
The only saving grace in the second film is the scene where Paul walks up to the Baron and says "Grandfather." In the novel, Paul talks about a path that would lead him to greeting the Baron by saying "Hello, Grandfather" and that path disgusted him. With the dropping of "Hello", I can accept that the second film is an alternate-universe version of Dune.
It was the singular problem i had with the newest dune movie.. it made them seem like amateurs,
All things considered, I do see your point and do agree to a degree. However I feel that villeneuve's adaptation of the sardukar was near perfect, compared to the other adaptations of the past, part 1 did a brilliant job. Part 2 was great at depicting the sardukar, maybe there could have been a short scene that shows the lethal mystique of the sardukar (like in part 1) somewhere; But on the other hand it could have been like overdoing it you know?
But I understand what you mean.
Perhaps instead of that shot where most of the sardukar troops are fleeing from the worm, in that shot they all freeze in place unsure of what to do... But eventually they all start walking forward with blades raised because they are trained to be suicidaly loyal, and they all get wiped out by shaai hulud! 🤦♂️🤷♂️
Part 1 really showed the menace that was the Sardukaur. Part 2 made it seem like they were just regular footsoldiers that died en masse
For reference, the Atreides troopers were stated in the book to have been trained by Gurney and Duncan to be almost as good as the Sardaukar, and the Fremen were stated to be a bit better than the Sardaukar.
If you want to read more, the blog A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry has a series of posts "The Fremen Mirage" which discuss in great length the trope that hard environments breed tough fighters. Written before the Villeneuve movies came out, but IMHO interesting.
It reminded me of dragon ball z where you thought this dude is unbeatable but than this other dude comes around and just wipe the floor with him and your like 'whaaa?' its typical power scaling anime shit
Seeing the Harkonnen forces getting smeared by the Atreides, who are in turn slaughtered by the Sardukaur was the only opportunity, and it was too brief to sell the notion that they were amazing.
I thought by this time the Sardukhar were a shadow of what they once were? That their organization had grown stagnate and complacent; relying more on their reputation and fear it induced.
FunFact -> the Sardaukar in the thumbnail for this video is the one who finished off Duncan Idaho in Dune 1, and is also seen looking up at the sandworm in the final battle in Dune 2
The Sardaukar are Loyal to the Emperor Through training and religion. The Emperor should have kept the money flowing to keep his elite at peak performance maybe they would have fared better. The Fremen as you mentioned are at a constant state of training Environmental and Physical so the Sardaukar were no match for them. The big Question is why was Feyd so hard to kill wasn't Paul skilled in the Weirding Way if so the match would have been more one sided. Great Video
I think they only appear nerfed due to how op the Fremen are portrayed in DUNE II as you mentioned. I think they should have included a brief scene of Paul teaching the Fremen the weirding way to show why the Fremen are now so strong
The Fremen were better fighters than the Sardaukar even before they learned prana bindu
Yes, the fact that one of the reasons the Fremen got so good was their adopting the Weirding Way. All it would have taken was a short scene with Paul (or Jessica!) teaching a group of Fedayeen, and then maybe an even short line in another scene of a Harkonnen mentioning the "rats" had suddenly gotten better
There was no weirding way in Villeneuve movies. Paul just got training by Idaho and Hallek
@@CmdrSoup There was weirding way, Jessica used it in Part 1 vs Stilgar...and she probably did teach it to Paul...but there was not enough time in the film timeline to teach it to the Fremen
The problem with the movie (which follows the book in this regard) is that there is missing tension, as the Sardaukar pose no threat, they are no match to the friendlies. Also, the Sardaukar are cool, so we want them to be good and menacing. See Darth Vader as an example of this. But no, they are simply a pushover.
The Fremen are amazing fighters, but the Sardaukar are the most elite shock troops. True, the Sardaukar are eventually beaten in the books, but it was through either numbers or subterfuge, rarely a straight fight. It would have been a much better scene to have Paul enter the throne room with just a few battle weary Sardaukar surrounded by corpses of Fremen. Even in D1 they seemed nerfed when where Idaho took on so many of the most elite troops in the galaxy at the same time. The visuals looked great though including the brief glimpse of Salusa Secundus we got.
The Sardaukar fighting against the Atreides on Arrakis would have been a closer fight had it not been a two front backstab with the Harkonnens. But Sardaukar fighting Fremen on their home planet was not even close. Even off world, the Fremen carried out a Jihad against entire unified Imperial systems. Each Fremen fought with the skill and intensity of a fully trained Swordmaster of Ginaz.
All I can say is the book should've been split into three parts, or you know, release the extended editions!
In the novels the Sadukar were warrior fanatics like the order of the assassins or the Japanese Ninja. For them death was preferable to defeat.
No, the sardukar weren't nerfed and the fremen were already pretty formidable without the weirding way. But they were more of a device than an allegiant faction of house corrino. Part 2 was only disappointing in that the sarukar become all clean, no blood on there faces, and the scream "SARDUKAR!" before advancing. I would have found the scene far better if the sardukar had simply been "aware of what is getting ready to go down" and the captain speaks in sardukar to form a line and advance down the hall in the lauguage of salusa secundus. It's would have felt more authentic. but it seems denis got caught up in the moment.
To develop the Sardaukar you would have to show them at some point completely overwhelming some one. Was the taking down of the Atreides sufficient? Also, there is a scene out of the book which due to the shortening of Paul's time among the fremen did not get put in. That is where the Sardaukar raided a sietch and nearly got their ass handed to them by women and children.
The new Dune movies are great but the story is so complex that for a better, and more accurate, production we'd need a high-budget TV Series with many seasons. Like Game of Thrones. I think the audience would welcome that.
Justice for The Sardaukars and The Golden Company!🤨✊
By the time the Mongols encountered European knights, they had conquered substantial parts of Asia - those Mongols were not underdogs but the soldiers of one of the largest land based Empires in human history.
I think it is less that the Sardaukar are nerferd and more that the Fremen under the leadership of a Kwisatz Haderach like Paul Atreides are ridiculously OP.
The Fremen are a fighting force 10 thousand years in the making. The Sarduakar are from 1 harsh planet. The whole history of the Fremen is them being dumped on barren worlds, figuring out how to live there and toughening up, then being enslaved by a warlord from one of the great houses to serve as a slave army, then the survivors being dumped on a fresh barren world to scratch out a living and repeat.
The Fremen used to live on the planet the Sarduakar are from - they already beat that level.
Then you have Paul Atreides, human cheat code.
He has the accumulated memories of a line of warlords, kings, emperors, generals, etc going back to the dawn of humanity.
He has the mentat training to be able to access his memories like a computer and to be able to think and plan blisteringly fast.
He's been trained to control his body at a cellular level and can use that training to boost his speed, stamina, pain resistence, poison resistence, etc.
He's been trained by the standout best swordsmen and tacticians of the age.
He's been trained in languages, religions, and the insane galactic brainwashing tools of the Bene Geserit
He can see the future so he literally knows what people are going to do before they do it and can counter them well in advance.
The Sarduakar are good soldiers. Better than any in the rest of the Galaxy even. Scary even to large savage forces like the Harkonnen, or to small highly professional and skilled forces like the Atreides.
But Fremen? Plus Cheat Code Paul? Makes them look like damp tissue.
And Paul isn't even the most OP human in the Dune universe.
The Tactics of the Fremen in the Dune Movie reminds also on the Mudshaheddin in the Soviet-Afghan War in the 80's.