Please remember everyone, it is easy to look at this story and have opinions, but until we have been in that position, let's save judgements. War is hell. Manny did an outstanding job sharing this difficult story. So, let's make sure to keep it civil. Thank you guys! Also, making videos like this is not cheap or easy. So please consider supporting us so that we can continue to make them! Patreon.com/TJ3History - And, If you know another veteran of the air war, please fill out our form here so we can tell their story! forms.gle/M7kbJ56VLVidJA4G6
As a former falcon field cadet over a decade ago, I just wanna say I love the stuff you’re doing. As for Manny, I can’t say yes or no on his choice. I feel yes but head says work comes first. No one is to say where the moral compass lay at all times.
TJ3 history i wanted to know if you used to do war thunder streams because i think you are one of the streamers i met in game idk if you are but i just wanted to know.
Manny was wrong! The Japanese comitted, at least, as many atrocities as the Germans. Just because they didn't single out Jewish peoples, doesn't change that fact. What they did to the Chinese and captured Allied troops makes most German crimes pale in comparison. US troops were, at least on one occasion, eaten by their Japanese captors. Surrendering soldiers, sailors and marines were routinely murdered. Some were experimented on by the infamous unit 731. The ones we know about have been chronicled many times elsewhere.
Those atrocities were performed by the military though. Their training was intentionally brutal and designed to completely dehumanize the soldiers and turn them into ruthless killers. But the civilians had no part in this and you can't blame a civilian for helping their country's war effort.
@@ky7299most of these civilians wanted the war to happen and even assassinated several of their government officials. They were guilty and deserved a bomb.
@@ky7299 The civilians were just as fanaticized as the military. They were given weapons and told to kill everyone who invaded. EVEN THE CHILDREN. This is why it would have been an absolute bloodbath if we had invaded.
I have mixed feelings about Manny's actions. On December 7, 1941 my dad was aboard USS Raleigh CL-7 in Pearl Harbor. In the opening minutes of the battle Raleigh was hit by an aerial torpedo. About an hour later, she was hit by an armor piercing bomb. Fortunately, the crew was able to close the breach and counter flood, keeping her afloat. Raleigh went on to serve throughout the Pacific until the end of the war. Raleigh's patrols took her to the Aleutian Islands and as far south as Fiji Islands, then on to South America.
My grandpa was also in the navy in WW2 but he didn't talk about it much so I'm not sure where he served. Funny how you wish you could just go back and ask questions you wish you were old enough to ask when they lived. Anyways I truly thank these brave men and women who serve in our military. Several of my family and friends served and still are, I thank them when I get to see them and it never gets old. Thanks to all our people who serve our country.
My uncle was a navigator on B-29s flying over Japan. He told of a day when, because of some problems onboard, he had to navigate home using a Boy Scout compass. Not only did he get his aircraft and crew home safely, he was promoted to 1st Lieutenant when they landed.
Not to mention that B-29's pretty much flew in formation and the pilots would only have had to follow the lead ship back to Tinian. Navigators get no pat on the back for flying a plane using minimum navigational aids. He would have been required to have made celestial shots at least once each hour or every 30 minutes as required to fix his position and fill out his navigational log, or legal record of the flight.
@@jamesburns2232 Well, in all fairness there was plenty of single B29 reconnaissance mission's over Japan, not only was it the only bomber with the range to hit Japan it was also the only aircraft with the range to perform a variety of different types of reconnaissance mission's, the kind that required multiple passes over the same area then moving to another area and doing the same, electronic snooping mission's were of that type, there could possibly have been photo reconnaissance variant's of something like the P38 that had enough range to do a single pass over something like Tokyo or a military facility somewhere but only a B29 on a reconnaissance mission could spend time over Japan and make runs on multiple areas and indeed they did, and they did those mission's solo because the Japanese wouldn't bother sending up fighter's over single aircraft doing what was obviously reconnaissance overflight's, that's why when the Enola Gay and Bockscar flew their atomic mission's no fighter's came up after them, the Japanese thought they were lone B29's on reconnaissance mission's, by then they'd gotten used to them and didn't risk fighter's against the nasty teeth that the defensive guns on the B29 had. There are some suspicious things about a story like that such as a compass like that inside of all that metal didn't work very well, but then again anything is possible I suppose, but there was plenty of examples of why B29's would have found themselves solo, and there's also the possibility of him having been the lead navigator of a formation, one whose sextant wound up with a bullet going through it.
I am surprised Manny wasn't court-martialed following this......perhaps hard to prove or disprove but he also placed his entire crew at risk and jeopardized a vital asset and possibly prolonged the war effort. I cannot obviously place myself in his shoes and understand the horrors of war and its many decisions. Jim C.
From what Manny told us, I believe he never told anyone until years later and no one could tell it happened on his plane. It sounded like a young Manny just had to face a difficult choice in the moment and kept it to himself.
I think the one thing to keep in mind is that many items needed to prolong the war were made to n civilians homes. They obviously had factories to build planes, tanks and other movable implements of war, but they may have been rebuilding pistols, rifles, producing ammunition, uniforms and the like. As previously mentioned war is hell and many hated it. My uncle used to help plan the bombing missions in Europe during WWII. He hated it because he felt he was sending men to theirs deaths. Things did improve he said once the mustangs in his group started to carry the drop tanks for fuel.
Hi TJ3! At that time Japan operated a “cottage industry,” the workers would literally manufacture for Japan’s war effort from their residences. Therefore the bombing campaign against Japan had to be that of dropping bombs on civilians. And their residences were built in such a way that they were susceptible to fire. If Manny had been flying in the ETO I doubt he would’ve hesitated. As for the most part the US8th had to fight its way there and back, costing American lives.
@@TJ3 I thought of something else! If Manny had been shot down over Japan, he would’ve ended up in a Japanese POW camp. Japanese POW were treated on a par with the Jews in German concentration camps. If I’d have been Manny, I would’ve followed “orders.”
@@jthomas4361 just ask the air crews of Doolittles raid who was shoot down in Japan! Oh that’s right you can’t cause they were beating to death by Japanese civilians!
My grandpa was also in the navy in WW2 but he didn't talk about it much so I'm not sure where he served. Funny how you wish you could just go back and ask questions you wish you were old enough to ask when they lived. Anyways I truly thank these brave men and women who serve in our military. Several of my family and friends served and still are, I thank them when I get to see them and it never gets old. Thanks to all our people who serve our country.
Boeing Wichita delivered these, my father was young at the time and remembered seeing them fly production test flights all over the place. I grew up in the same city and did observe GA fly around, what a place to be at the time.
At the time, can't let that get in the way of the objective. The imperial Japanese were extremely brutal cruel people, we got the receipts. They needed stopped and this was the only way to do it. If they would have just surrendered the first several times of pending Doom it wouldn't have gone that far.
@@JSFGuy Well said, Matt! It was the imperialistic savage Japanese leadership that brought their people to the harshest extreme possible (except for nuclear bombs) to be fire bombed. TRUE Mercy does not naively accept sin and evil just for the narcissistic perversion of looking as the "nice guy." False mercy has been given free rein now and look at the Satanic-Communist-Homosexual living hell that has been unleashed on the USA and the whole world. True Mercy fights evil as evil is infinitely anti-human. Japan ended up understanding this and instead of starting false mercy violent protest mobs after the war like many are doing here now, they became our friends and allies and a blessing to the world. That fire bombing and nuclear bombs purified the worldview and choices of the Japanese. That's True Mercy, even when many, many innocents had to die. If we had held back, all their descendants and us would be slaves now.
The movie 12 oOclock High (1 hr 6 minutes point) "Hanley toggling bombs late. Savage says 9 men risk their lives to ride with you for you to put your bombs on the target.. He was demoted to the Leper colony". BTW my Dad was in one of the scheduled assault divisions for Kyushu!". And I think the Japanese were not exactly friendly to our guys who were shot down and captured!
7:15 I started to investigate on my own and this Is what I found Wempy's Blitzburger 42-6290, 58BW/40BG was part of XX Bomber Command The aircraft participated in missions against Formosa, Singapore and once, dropped its bomb load over Nanking but as a last priority objective. Blitzburger was lost on November of 1944 in China in a ground collision -So Wempy's Blitzburger was not part of XXI BC or any night bombing mission I am not saying that the story is false, but something is clear, Wempy's Blitzburger was no longer his aircraft at 1945 and during the firebombing campaign against Japan
Yes, I also found this. However, I believe what may have happened is that Manny (And crew?) likely changed planes later on to one that was not named or known. I know Manny served on multiple B-29s. Info was very difficult to find for this one. It is also very possible that some details may have been mixed up in the retelling - example - night vs day, 1st mission vs 3rd mission, etc. This is common, after all, it was 80 years ago!
@@TJ3 I have 2 suspicions -1 Manny's story is not 1945 or Japan. On November 5, 1944, the XX bombing command carried out mission N.15, bombarding a dry dock in Singapore. Seymour Landau, Wempy's Blitzburger flight engineer, commented that his bomber dropped the bombs off target (perhaps this is the story Manny is referring to) -Or 2, Manny and the Blitzburger crew were probably transferred after the November 1944 crash, not only to a new aircraft, but also to XXI Command and Manny's story refers to the firebombing campaign planned by Curtiss LeMay (wich started experimentally on 3 February 1945 ended in March 19 and resumed in May and June)
I can appreciate that he had opinions and feelings. But just because he didn't feel that the Japanese were not anti Jewish (they were, as they were anti anything NOT Japanese) he took it upon himself to violate his orders. As a Veteran myself, I see that as extremely dangerous not only to his crew but to the National goal of ending the war as quickly as possible. Extending the war just adds to the allied casualty list and the Japanese DID practice unrestricted warfare where civilians were a valid target.
Your videos are amazing man. You have no idea how much I enjoy these!! You ever gonna WW1 stories? That would be awesome and amazing too! I love learning about both wars! Keep up the amazing work!!
War is the most inhumane activity humans participate in. I'm not going judge this man. I do, however, respect his willingness to step forward and share his experience.
So what are you saying Manny? Are you saying that we bombed Tokyo Nagasaki for no reason? Or just bombed Japan for no reason? I’m just wondering I mean I’ve always thought that Pearl Harbor was a big enough reason.
Pearl Harbor was a military target though. Tokyo wasn't. Nor Dresden nor London ftm. And contrary to what movies depict the japanese pilots attacking Pearl Harbor were under orders not to strafe civilians.
are you telling me that we attack Pearl Harbor to kill civilians? man, if we were to obliterate the entire Pearl Harbor to oblivion, you would have lost the war entirely. besides, Pearl Harbor is a military target.
I can understand his reluctance....we hear stories of those new to combat all the time and it is very much the same. However, understanding does not excuse the behavior or his dereliction of duty. IF it had been known that he had done this at the time, he should have been court martialed...end of story. Individual cases of dereliction of duty could not be taken on a case by case basis. If he felt he had to show mercy...so be it...but at the same time he should have been willing to face the consequences of his actions. If he had done this and then admitted to his crew and commanders what he had done and why, I would still think he was in the wrong...but would have respected him for his decision. But his keeping silent and then saying "they did nothing to me" spit in the faces of all those that died in Pearl Harbor through Iwo Jima and through out the Pacific theater.
It is only human to have compassion for others, even if you are at war with them. And must be a tough thing to deal with in his case even though the enemies don't think the same. I am guessing that is why a lot of veterans do not talk about any of their tours of duty. Bless them all
My mother's 1st cousin was a pursuit (fighter) pilot in the Philippines before and during the first stages of the war in the Pacific. He was captured and was on the Bataan death march. It's too bad that Manny didn't get a chance to march a mile or two beside him. And I wonder just how many Allied fighting men died because of weapons that were not destroyed in that town. My cousin survived the march, and survived the war.
Manny did what his conscience told him. I can't judge him for that. He was no diffrent than the soldiers who fired their first shots without aiming, then got over it and did what they were supose to do. Manny did follow orders in the end.
I think my thoughts can be summed up as "Without condoning or condemning, I understand." It's easy to say he was wrong for this when we weren't there about to inflict suffering on who knows how many people.
Manny's deliberate choice to ditch payload beyond the mission target could objectively be considered a reckless dereliction of duty. Without personal opinion, the lives of his fellow crewmen and the lives of Allied servicemen that day, the next day, and thereafter could have been hugely, negatively affected by the inefficacy of his B29's sortie... but it's extremely complicated. In the moment; knowing sleeping kids were in their beds, unsuspecting families of fellow human beings were huddled tightly in houses of wood, and he being the single thread that separates their living and dying to horrifying, rampaging firestorms? You're not human if you can do that with no reluctance. Even as a combat veteran I wouldn't know how I'd react in his situation. I do know I'd hate to be in that seat, one way or the other. Salute to him for sharing his story. Great video.
My Dad flew B29s from Saipan in WW2, including the firebombing raids of Tokyo and other cities. He told me LeMay had them fly as low as 5000 feet (not 10,000 as stated in the video). He never said anything about their planes having most of the defensive guns removed or lacking ammo. I know his tail gunner was killed on one mission, but dont know if it was anti aircraft fire or another airplane. On at least some of the fire bomb raids he said they carried a mix of bombs and made two passes. First pass over the target they dropped incindiary bombs. Then they circled back and dropped a stick of high explosive bombs to hinder any fire fighting efforts on the ground. It was a brutal tactic, yes. But the goal was to bring the war to an end as quickly as possible and without having to invade mainland Japan. The same reasoning used to justify dropping the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I had heard predictions that more conventional tactics and an invasion was expected to make the the war last at least several years longer and cost multiple millions of lives on both sides, based upon how fanatically the Japanese had defended every island and atoll on the long march across the Pacific to that point of the war. The battles of the Mariana Islands, Iwo Jima and Okinawa had certainly driven tha point home. The Japanese were prepared to fight to the last in defense of their country! Another often-overlooked factor in Japan's surrender was that Russia had finally declared war on Japan a day or two after the first atomic bomb was dropped. Now that the Germans in Europe were defeated, Russia for the first time turned their attention toward Japan, which found itself between the Americans, British, Australians and others approaching from the Southeast, and a battle hardened million-man Russian army approaching from the Northwest.
I read a very detailed article about a bomber crew that had been ordered to fly a mission in Japan, it was very close to what they figured would soon be the end of the war in Japan. They didn’t want to go and made a lot of grumbling about it. Turns out that one mission was instrumental in helping the emperor of Japan escaping some Japanese military leaders that were going to stop him from announcing the surrender on the radio to the Japanese people. They were going to kidnap him to keep him from it and he was actually fleeing the property with them not far behind, when the explosions hitting all around caused them to lose the emperor in the confusion. This small seemingly insignificant little raid made a monumental difference in the ending of the war.
Obviously i wasn't there so none of us can say how we would react in the same situation. For whatever reason something told Manny not to drop on the town. Maybe he was meant to drop past the town for whatever reason. Maybe his mind hadn't gotten to where it needed to be for his job yet. It's easy for us to sit back and say this, or that. But we weren't there, and we didn't have our fingers on the trigger.
What Manny obviously was NOT aware of was the brutal savagery of the animals he was supposed to be bombing! Their treatment of POW's and the civilians of China just proved how really barbaric the Japanese people were. I cannot find any way to condone or justify his failure to follow the orders he was given and thereby placing the plane and it's crew in possible jeopardy, not to mention the waste of ordnance and fuel.
"Their treatment of POW's and the civilians in China just proved how barbaric the Japanese people were" - probably from someone who committed war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan 💀
the americans were also animals bombing civlilians in japan germany romania france and bulgaria strafing civilians in p51s my great aunt was one of them she was killed by a american pilot also the japanese american internment camps
I understand not wanting to bomb those people. I would have not wanted to either, but there are times when a person must go against everything that tells them not to do something and do it.
Yeah I'm sorry orders are orders. As an army veteran I can tell you that discipline is what it's all about. First priority is to complete the mission secondly is the health and welfare of your troops!
Maybe if Manny's brother was fighting on guadal canal got taken. Prisoner and had his head cut off then. Maddie might have thought of the war in different light
I feel bad for the citizens of Japan, as they were lied to, alot...But if Manny had know how vicious and cruel the Japanese were on prisoners and civiians, he may have realised Germany and Japan were an evil idea gone way too far. The children and families at the home front always suffer the most, in war.
I as combat veteran can understand this WW2 was civil war in my family 7 uncles and father fought the Japanese and 9 uncles fought for Germany. I can understand not condemn his actions faced the same with cottage industry in Vietnam not bombs but flamethrower and I looked them in eye not from high in the sky.
I wonder if all the planes that flew this mission returned safely it would be horrible to find out one didn't make it back. I'm sure there were jewish guys killed at Pearl Harbor and ones that were captured and tortured by the Japanese too so I don't understand why he wouldn't want to bomb both countries. Anyway like you said I wasn't there and war is hell. But, I would have did my best to hit the target just so I wouldn't have to go back the next night because we didn't complete the missions objective puting the rest of the B-29 crews at risk again. DO You happen to know the Tail Number of his B-29 Because I can't find it listed under the name of the plane. Because I would like to know what happened to the plane after the war or if it even made it to the end of the war intact. Great Job TJ. Your videos are awesome. I love how you don't cut corners and do all the research to make sure everything is factual. Please Keep 'Em Flyin buddy and have a great weekend. Now comes the worst part we have to wait a entire week to see the next one. Lol. But you always make it well worth the wait.
Is it true that most of the bombs dropped by USAAF bombers throughout the war didn’t come anywhere close to hitting their intended target? Does anyone know the reason behind this? Is it because of the stability of the plane? The accuracy of the bombsight? Weather conditions? Or was it just a combination of the 3?
Honestly, I can't blame Manny. I know it was war, but civilian casualties is something that we always must try to minimize. War itself is horrible and should be avoided.
War has horrible consequences for so many people. That the people we vote for or against have to make life changing decisions, we Must vote for intelligent people, not just a nice face or who is trendy. History cannot be changed, we have a responsibility to try and elect leaders who will not just look to the future, but also look to the lesson’s of the past🇺🇸
When you consider how many allied POWs were brutalised and murdered I think Manny was totally wrong not to do his assigned role, in hindsight he might not have realised this fact but he should have remembered what the Japanese did at Pearl harbour, indescriminate bombing of men and women when america was not even aware of an attack by Japan and before Japan had even declared war
5:15: "precision bombing like we did in Europe": I presume this guy is kidding, isn't he? Then "going to the atomic bomb" to convince Japanese to surrender is the official version of the events but it's clearly controversial if you study this historical period. 10:30: "a decision that, as an 18 or 19 year old boy, no one should have to face" . Good statement but ... unfortunately this is the fate of any young soldier in any war. First: he was sitting in an airplane which is an easier place to have philosophical considerations than on the ground ... Second: he was aware of the German war crimes but not of the fact that the Japanese were far from free from war crimes and crimes against humanity either (Nankin or Manila massacres, Unit 731, treatment of prisoners of war, death marches, etc...) so that he made a very personal decision which could have endangered his comrades in arms while he didn't have all the facts. Third: nevertheless I understand his moral dilemma at that moment, as human being, but that's not the way it works at war. In fact it happened to him once and then he followed orders. Having been in the military for 30 years, I fully agree with your conclusion: war is absolute hell and can't be moral. Your mission at war, as inconceivable as it may seem, is (to make it short...) to kill your ennemy otherwise he will kill you and prevail in the end which is not what you want. Never forget the people and the cause you are fighting for. The moral side of war is just not being cruel, mistreating prisoners or committing yourself war crimes. Other than that, your job is to carry out war missions, nothing else. You are not supposed to change targets or whatever like this at soldier level. If everybody does the same thing, just imagine the consequences: you cannot endanger your brothers in arms just to spare your ennemy based on humanitarian considerations. It's awful, I know, but that's the way it is since ... ever. Somebody said that "war is people who do not know each other, who kill each other because other people who know each other didn't come to an agreement". I hope you can understand despite it's not a very good translation since I'm not a native English speaker. Regards
Ironically, before the war, Japan modified a DC-4E licensed long range bomber but never mass produced it. It was superior to the B-29. Japan also had the ability of using the Kawanishi H8K2 for long range bombing, but the experiment only rained bombs uselessly on Hawaii in their only mission. Japan haters can thank Gen LeMay for boiling thousands of Japanese citizens trying to escape in the rivers. Japan didn't even produce their B-29 killer K7W1 high alt swept wing interceptor with four 30mm cannon in the nose. MacArthur's team found the production line with 40 incomplete K7W's waiting for engines and guns.
Nonsense, there wasn't a single aircraft in the world superior to the B29 in any regard, it was the most technologically advanced machine in the world at the time, aside from the things that everyone knows about like it's pressurized fuselage it also was the first bomber in the world where radar bombing was standard on every one and not an afterthought like on the Lancaster, B17 and B24, with them special Pathfinder versions were fit with the H2X ground scanning radar system for bomb aiming, in the case of the RAF it was because they were night bombing and with US bombers it was for mission's when they reached the IP and it was obvious there was too much cloud cover for a lead bomber to optically sight the target then a radar equipped Pathfinder would take over as lead bomber, but with the B29 every one was fit with that capability, it also had a flight engineer that took work load off the pilot and copilot, it's computer augmented defensive gun system gave it a kill to loss ratio against enemy fighter's of 11 to 1, that's higher than the 10.2 to 1 kill to loss ratio of the P51 that was used to escort them, a 1947 USAAF report actually stated that the use of P51's in the Pacific to escort B29's was a waste of fighter resources that could have been better used elsewhere, it's bomb load was higher than any other bomber of the war and it could carry those loads higher and faster than any other bomber, there was absolutely nothing about the Japanese modified DC-4E that was superior in any way shape or form to the B29, it was simply not only the most advanced aircraft in the world at the time but it was also the most advanced machine in the world at the time and it's 3 billion dollar development price tag is proof of that, nothing else had so many advanced systems on it as the B29 aircraft or not.
Many pilots and crews who fire bombed Dresden were very vocal about the ethics of what they were doing. There's a name for it that escapes me right now but many soldiers in Europe fought an enemy that was more "white and Christian" so some intentionally shot over their heads. Soldiers are trained to kill, they're not born that way. I wasn't there so that's it for me.
The animation sure is wrong. Should be lower altitude. "... Japanese air defenses made daytime bombing below jet stream-affected altitudes too perilous, LeMay finally switched to low-altitude nighttime incendiary attacks on Japanese targets..." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay
If more bombardiers has taken this personal convenience and lack of grudge on their bomb runs, we would have lost the war. Or at least had to expend countless additional lives with invasion.
Oh, Manny Greer would have avoided dropping his payload on other targets if he wasn't chewed out for it. He had to. There was no way the other crewmen would've been oblivious to his miss drop over the target area. This explains why on every other mission that he took part on his payload found their mark. I'm sure this was the case. He hesitated over the target. But his actions saved lives that night on his first flight.
No, that's not what what was about the jet stream that affected bombing and the guy in this video has no clue what he's talking about, all he's doing is repeating the common myth about what is was about the jet stream above Japan that affected bomb accuracy, apparently he's never read the USAAF reports that discuss what it was about the jet stream above Japan that affected the accuracy of the early high altitude bombing mission's, don't forget the Enola Gay dropped Little Boy from an altitude of over 30,000 ft and a speed of 325 MPH and it detonated over a point just 800 ft from the aiming point, that was no fluke, Robert Oppenheimer would not sign off on turning over the atomic bombs to the military for their use until they proved they could achieve that kind of accuracy from that altitude and speed consistently, there was no other choice, they had to be dropped from that altitude and speed for the bomber dropping the bomb to escape it's blast. The USAAF knew full well what the air speed in the jet stream above Japan was long before the first B29's, that wasn't what was misjudged, it was the temperature in the jet stream they had wrong, it was over 40° C warmer in the jet stream than they'd made all the calculations for to get their ballistic solution for the bombs release point to hit the aiming point, temperature affects things like air density and knowing the correct air temperature is critical for accuracy and an over 40° C variation way up at release equals thousands of feet difference in the impact point. The Norden bombsight was essentially a computer, and like any kind of computer if you program bad values into it you'll get incorrect answers, in their case you get an incorrect ballistic solution for how far the bomb will travel after release until it hits the ground. The reason they switched to low level night bombing is because after all the issues with developing the B29 and the potential invasion of Japan being in the foreseeable future results needed to happen, they didn't have the months it would take to correct all the values in the Norden bombsight to compensate for the difference in temperature in the jet stream above Japan that they originally made all the calculations for and then test it, that would have taken months and results from bombing Japan with a bomber that finally had the range needed to happen immediately, so they switched to low level night bombing, but who did have the months it'd take to straighten everything out for high altitude bombing was Col Paul Tibbets 509th Composite Group, and that's because the atomic bomb was months away from being ready, so their first task was to work with the mathematicians and engineer's at Norden to get the ballistic tables straightened out for releasing bombs in that temperature at that altitude and under those conditions, this included dropping lots of concrete filled duplicates of Little Boy and Fat Man to get things worked out. The fact is had they known what the temperature actually was in the jet stream above Japan from day one the first high altitude bombings of Japan with conventional bombs would have been as accurate as the Little Boy drop was and they never would have had to switch to low level night bombing just to get things moving along and get results, but they were bombing from altitudes that no one on the planet had ever done before so like anything else when envelopes are being pushed lessons are learned.
The Japanese were in some ways far worse than the Germans in their treatment of civilians and POW’s so I have mixed feelings on Manny’s decision but I also wasn’t there in 1944 or have I been even close to being in his position to even judge Manny either
Marines and Navy. Well, OK. I am not taking anything away from those gallant people, but the US Army did most of the ground fighting in the Pacific war. They never seem to get the credit they deserve. And the B-29's were part of the ARMY Air Corps.
The thought occurred to me that God may have had compassion on some people down below, maybe there were Christians or people of exceptional spirituality and innocense in that partiular town that He spared through the impulse that motivated Manny.
I think he did the right thing to drop his bombs late but bombing on civilians must be a criminal thing just like what Hitler did to the British people during the blitz. Can't wait to hear more Manny Greer next b-29 career story.
War aganist civilians was a war crime, punishable by death until about the US civil war when the burning of the Shenandoah valley farms and Shermans march to the sea were done to break the Confederacy. Also in WW1German submarines had to surface and allow mariners time to get off their ship before they sank it. At least until the British used the time to find and sink the sub. Since then the concept of 'total war' has been in everybodies play book. The idea that civilians produce the war munitions in factories and transport them, making them legitimate targets.
I've always wondered if we had used the atomic bomb at Iwo Jima and even invited the Japanese to observe under a flag of truce if a lot of the carnage on the Japanese mainland could have been avoided.. Thanks for the video.
If you have never experienced a combat deployment, you don't get to question the motives or the actions of those who have. God bless you Manny Greer! Semper Fi USMC(RET)
Please remember everyone, it is easy to look at this story and have opinions, but until we have been in that position, let's save judgements. War is hell. Manny did an outstanding job sharing this difficult story. So, let's make sure to keep it civil. Thank you guys! Also, making videos like this is not cheap or easy. So please consider supporting us so that we can continue to make them! Patreon.com/TJ3History - And, If you know another veteran of the air war, please fill out our form here so we can tell their story! forms.gle/M7kbJ56VLVidJA4G6
As a former falcon field cadet over a decade ago, I just wanna say I love the stuff you’re doing. As for Manny, I can’t say yes or no on his choice. I feel yes but head says work comes first. No one is to say where the moral compass lay at all times.
TJ3 history i wanted to know if you used to do war thunder streams because i think you are one of the streamers i met in game idk if you are but i just wanted to know.
Manny was wrong! The Japanese comitted, at least, as many atrocities as the Germans. Just because they didn't single out Jewish peoples, doesn't change that fact. What they did to the Chinese and captured Allied troops makes most German crimes pale in comparison. US troops were, at least on one occasion, eaten by their Japanese captors. Surrendering soldiers, sailors and marines were routinely murdered. Some were experimented on by the infamous unit 731.
The ones we know about have been chronicled many times elsewhere.
Yes I believe that Manny didn't so much think that it was right, as he just made a spur of the moment decision in combat.
Those atrocities were performed by the military though. Their training was intentionally brutal and designed to completely dehumanize the soldiers and turn them into ruthless killers. But the civilians had no part in this and you can't blame a civilian for helping their country's war effort.
@@ky7299 Wrong! LouieZamperini & other B-24 crew-members were exposed to criminal-abuse by Japanese civilians, allowed by military in 1944 & '45.
@@ky7299most of these civilians wanted the war to happen and even assassinated several of their government officials. They were guilty and deserved a bomb.
@@ky7299 The civilians were just as fanaticized as the military. They were given weapons and told to kill everyone who invaded. EVEN THE CHILDREN. This is why it would have been an absolute bloodbath if we had invaded.
I have mixed feelings about Manny's actions. On December 7, 1941 my dad was aboard USS Raleigh CL-7 in Pearl Harbor. In the opening minutes of the battle Raleigh was hit by an aerial torpedo. About an hour later, she was hit by an armor piercing bomb. Fortunately, the crew was able to close the breach and counter flood, keeping her afloat.
Raleigh went on to serve throughout the Pacific until the end of the war.
Raleigh's patrols took her to the Aleutian Islands and as far south as Fiji Islands, then on to South America.
My grandpa was also in the navy in WW2 but he didn't talk about it much so I'm not sure where he served. Funny how you wish you could just go back and ask questions you wish you were old enough to ask when they lived. Anyways I truly thank these brave men and women who serve in our military. Several of my family and friends served and still are, I thank them when I get to see them and it never gets old. Thanks to all our people who serve our country.
My uncle was a navigator on B-29s flying over Japan. He told of a day when, because of some problems onboard, he had to navigate home using a Boy Scout compass. Not only did he get his aircraft and crew home safely, he was promoted to 1st Lieutenant when they landed.
Not to mention that B-29's pretty much flew in formation and the pilots would only have had to follow the lead ship back to Tinian. Navigators get no pat on the back for flying a plane using minimum navigational aids. He would have been required to have made celestial shots at least once each hour or every 30 minutes as required to fix his position and fill out his navigational log, or legal record of the flight.
@@jamesburns2232
Well, in all fairness there was plenty of single B29 reconnaissance mission's over Japan, not only was it the only bomber with the range to hit Japan it was also the only aircraft with the range to perform a variety of different types of reconnaissance mission's, the kind that required multiple passes over the same area then moving to another area and doing the same, electronic snooping mission's were of that type, there could possibly have been photo reconnaissance variant's of something like the P38 that had enough range to do a single pass over something like Tokyo or a military facility somewhere but only a B29 on a reconnaissance mission could spend time over Japan and make runs on multiple areas and indeed they did, and they did those mission's solo because the Japanese wouldn't bother sending up fighter's over single aircraft doing what was obviously reconnaissance overflight's, that's why when the Enola Gay and Bockscar flew their atomic mission's no fighter's came up after them, the Japanese thought they were lone B29's on reconnaissance mission's, by then they'd gotten used to them and didn't risk fighter's against the nasty teeth that the defensive guns on the B29 had.
There are some suspicious things about a story like that such as a compass like that inside of all that metal didn't work very well, but then again anything is possible I suppose, but there was plenty of examples of why B29's would have found themselves solo, and there's also the possibility of him having been the lead navigator of a formation, one whose sextant wound up with a bullet going through it.
Also, a big thanks to the CAF's Brad Pilgrim for his outstanding commentary. Go support @CAFMedia today and go see their B-29 FIFI! :)
Brad is a good guy!
Did he die flying a P38 at an air show ? If not, he looks alot like the man that did.
I am surprised Manny wasn't court-martialed following this......perhaps hard to prove or disprove but he also placed his entire crew at risk and jeopardized a vital asset and possibly prolonged the war effort. I cannot obviously place myself in his shoes and understand the horrors of war and its many decisions. Jim C.
From what Manny told us, I believe he never told anyone until years later and no one could tell it happened on his plane. It sounded like a young Manny just had to face a difficult choice in the moment and kept it to himself.
I think the one thing to keep in mind is that many items needed to prolong the war were made to n civilians homes. They obviously had factories to build planes, tanks and other movable implements of war, but they may have been rebuilding pistols, rifles, producing ammunition, uniforms and the like. As previously mentioned war is hell and many hated it. My uncle used to help plan the bombing missions in Europe during WWII. He hated it because he felt he was sending men to theirs deaths. Things did improve he said once the mustangs in his group started to carry the drop tanks for fuel.
@@TJ3 “no 1 could tell that it happened”
Esp bc it was nighttime
Maybe it was Sherman who said during the civil war that ‘Our enemy has chosen war. I say that we give them all that they can handle’
I paraphrase
The actual quote was ‘war is the remedy our enemy has chosen. I say let’s give them all they want’ edited for accuracy
Being new to combat, he had to learn how to contain his emotions. No different than new soldiers on battlefield firing rifles without aiming.
This is correct!
Hi TJ3! At that time Japan operated a “cottage industry,” the workers would literally manufacture for Japan’s war effort from their residences. Therefore the bombing campaign against Japan had to be that of dropping bombs on civilians. And their residences were built in such a way that they were susceptible to fire.
If Manny had been flying in the ETO I doubt he would’ve hesitated. As for the most part the US8th had to fight its way there and back, costing American lives.
Agreed!
@@TJ3
I thought of something else! If Manny had been shot down over Japan, he would’ve ended up in a Japanese POW camp. Japanese POW were treated on a par with the Jews in German concentration camps.
If I’d have been Manny, I would’ve followed “orders.”
He put his entire crew at risk for nothing. Those civilians down there would have beat him and his men to death or turned them over to be tortured.
As he says from his armchair
@@jthomas4361 just ask the air crews of Doolittles raid who was shoot down in Japan! Oh that’s right you can’t cause they were beating to death by Japanese civilians!
@@derail6996 And you think the americans were innocent during the war?
@@derherrgraf6001If it's a contest for who was the most inhumane I think the Japanese will have beaten the US by miles.
@@derherrgraf6001yes they were innocent, and im not even American
"we've all got both light and dark in us, what matters is the part we choose to act on. thats who we really are"
-Sirius Black
Great video you have no clue how much I enjoy these videos!
Glad to hear it!
The issue is complicated by the Japanese' practice of housing workers in or close to the factories.
My grandpa was also in the navy in WW2 but he didn't talk about it much so I'm not sure where he served. Funny how you wish you could just go back and ask questions you wish you were old enough to ask when they lived. Anyways I truly thank these brave men and women who serve in our military. Several of my family and friends served and still are, I thank them when I get to see them and it never gets old. Thanks to all our people who serve our country.
Boeing Wichita delivered these, my father was young at the time and remembered seeing them fly production test flights all over the place. I grew up in the same city and did observe GA fly around, what a place to be at the time.
My dad hated firebombing the civilians but it was war. He become a drunk because of it. He HATED Curtis LeMay!
At the time, can't let that get in the way of the objective. The imperial Japanese were extremely brutal cruel people, we got the receipts. They needed stopped and this was the only way to do it. If they would have just surrendered the first several times of pending Doom it wouldn't have gone that far.
@@JSFGuy Well said, Matt! It was the imperialistic savage Japanese leadership that brought their people to the harshest extreme possible (except for nuclear bombs) to be fire bombed. TRUE Mercy does not naively accept sin and evil just for the narcissistic perversion of looking as the "nice guy." False mercy has been given free rein now and look at the Satanic-Communist-Homosexual living hell that has been unleashed on the USA and the whole world.
True Mercy fights evil as evil is infinitely anti-human. Japan ended up understanding this and instead of starting false mercy violent protest mobs after the war like many are doing here now, they became our friends and allies and a blessing to the world. That fire bombing and nuclear bombs purified the worldview and choices of the Japanese. That's True Mercy, even when many, many innocents had to die. If we had held back, all their descendants and us would be slaves now.
we all do hate LeMay!
he even messed up during the Cold War.
if you get a chance to read some of the stories, read them!
The movie 12 oOclock High (1 hr 6 minutes point) "Hanley toggling bombs late. Savage says 9 men risk their lives to ride with you for you to put your bombs on the target.. He was demoted to the Leper colony". BTW my Dad was in one of the scheduled assault divisions for Kyushu!". And I think the Japanese were not exactly friendly to our guys who were shot down and captured!
I understand why he did what he did, he was not heartless, Interesting channel. subbed 👍🇺🇸
Can’t believe I’ve never saw your channel in my feed before. Nice Content,nice speaking cadence
RIGHT UP MY ALLEY.
SUBSCRIPTION ADDED
THUMBS UP
Welcome aboard!
Thanks.
Glad your on our side
USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸🫡
7:15 I started to investigate on my own and this Is what I found
Wempy's Blitzburger 42-6290, 58BW/40BG was part of XX Bomber Command
The aircraft participated in missions against Formosa, Singapore and once, dropped its bomb load over Nanking but as a last priority objective.
Blitzburger was lost on November of 1944 in China in a ground collision
-So Wempy's Blitzburger was not part of XXI BC or any night bombing mission
I am not saying that the story is false, but something is clear, Wempy's Blitzburger was no longer his aircraft at 1945 and during the firebombing campaign against Japan
Yes, I also found this. However, I believe what may have happened is that Manny (And crew?) likely changed planes later on to one that was not named or known. I know Manny served on multiple B-29s. Info was very difficult to find for this one. It is also very possible that some details may have been mixed up in the retelling - example - night vs day, 1st mission vs 3rd mission, etc. This is common, after all, it was 80 years ago!
@@TJ3 I have 2 suspicions
-1 Manny's story is not 1945 or Japan. On November 5, 1944, the XX bombing command carried out mission N.15, bombarding a dry dock in Singapore. Seymour Landau, Wempy's Blitzburger flight engineer, commented that his bomber dropped the bombs off target (perhaps this is the story Manny is referring to)
-Or 2, Manny and the Blitzburger crew were probably transferred after the November 1944 crash, not only to a new aircraft, but also to XXI Command and Manny's story refers to the firebombing campaign planned by Curtiss LeMay (wich started experimentally on 3 February 1945 ended in March 19 and resumed in May and June)
I can appreciate that he had opinions and feelings. But just because he didn't feel that the Japanese were not anti Jewish (they were, as they were anti anything NOT Japanese) he took it upon himself to violate his orders. As a Veteran myself, I see that as extremely dangerous not only to his crew but to the National goal of ending the war as quickly as possible. Extending the war just adds to the allied casualty list and the Japanese DID practice unrestricted warfare where civilians were a valid target.
Sounds like Manny shouldn’t have been a bombardier.
Like upham in saving private ryan
Yeah maybe, but maybe FDR shouldn’t have let the war happen. At least Manny had a conscience
Your videos are amazing man. You have no idea how much I enjoy these!! You ever gonna WW1 stories? That would be awesome and amazing too! I love learning about both wars!
Keep up the amazing work!!
War is the most inhumane activity humans participate in. I'm not going judge this man. I do, however, respect his willingness to step forward and share his experience.
What's done is done. If a little humanity breaks out during wartime, so be it. I hope he never experienced regret for what he did.
So what are you saying Manny? Are you saying that we bombed Tokyo Nagasaki for no reason? Or just bombed Japan for no reason? I’m just wondering I mean I’ve always thought that Pearl Harbor was a big enough reason.
Pearl Harbor was a military target though. Tokyo wasn't. Nor Dresden nor London ftm. And contrary to what movies depict the japanese pilots attacking Pearl Harbor were under orders not to strafe civilians.
You'd bomb thousands of civilian targets simply as revenge for Pearl Harbor?
Are you insane?
@@ky7299 facts
are you telling me that we attack Pearl Harbor to kill civilians? man, if we were to obliterate the entire Pearl Harbor to oblivion, you would have lost the war entirely. besides, Pearl Harbor is a military target.
I can understand his reluctance....we hear stories of those new to combat all the time and it is very much the same. However, understanding does not excuse the behavior or his dereliction of duty. IF it had been known that he had done this at the time, he should have been court martialed...end of story. Individual cases of dereliction of duty could not be taken on a case by case basis. If he felt he had to show mercy...so be it...but at the same time he should have been willing to face the consequences of his actions. If he had done this and then admitted to his crew and commanders what he had done and why, I would still think he was in the wrong...but would have respected him for his decision. But his keeping silent and then saying "they did nothing to me" spit in the faces of all those that died in Pearl Harbor through Iwo Jima and through out the Pacific theater.
It is only human to have compassion for others, even if you are at war with them. And must be a tough thing to deal with in his case even though the enemies don't think the same.
I am guessing that is why a lot of veterans do not talk about any of their tours of duty.
Bless them all
I agree war is hell, and I wish we would learn lessons through the ultimate sacrifice paid, Thank you for sharing this and may we not repeat
My mother's 1st cousin was a pursuit (fighter) pilot in the Philippines before and during the first stages of the war in the Pacific. He was captured and was on the Bataan death march. It's too bad that Manny didn't get a chance to march a mile or two beside him. And I wonder just how many Allied fighting men died because of weapons that were not destroyed in that town. My cousin survived the march, and survived the war.
Did Manny explain why he did not mis drop on his following missions?
I believe he knew that was what he was supposed to do. He just made a spur of the moment decision in the first mission!
Manny did what his conscience told him. I can't judge him for that. He was no diffrent than the soldiers who fired their first shots without aiming, then got over it and did what they were supose to do. Manny did follow orders in the end.
I think my thoughts can be summed up as "Without condoning or condemning, I understand." It's easy to say he was wrong for this when we weren't there about to inflict suffering on who knows how many people.
We can understand from a young man, but ask Chinese people and PW in japanese camps what they tought of this story;
Manny's deliberate choice to ditch payload beyond the mission target could objectively be considered a reckless dereliction of duty. Without personal opinion, the lives of his fellow crewmen and the lives of Allied servicemen that day, the next day, and thereafter could have been hugely, negatively affected by the inefficacy of his B29's sortie... but it's extremely complicated.
In the moment; knowing sleeping kids were in their beds, unsuspecting families of fellow human beings were huddled tightly in houses of wood, and he being the single thread that separates their living and dying to horrifying, rampaging firestorms?
You're not human if you can do that with no reluctance. Even as a combat veteran I wouldn't know how I'd react in his situation. I do know I'd hate to be in that seat, one way or the other.
Salute to him for sharing his story. Great video.
My Dad flew B29s from Saipan in WW2, including the firebombing raids of Tokyo and other cities. He told me LeMay had them fly as low as 5000 feet (not 10,000 as stated in the video). He never said anything about their planes having most of the defensive guns removed or lacking ammo. I know his tail gunner was killed on one mission, but dont know if it was anti aircraft fire or another airplane.
On at least some of the fire bomb raids he said they carried a mix of bombs and made two passes. First pass over the target they dropped incindiary bombs. Then they circled back and dropped a stick of high explosive bombs to hinder any fire fighting efforts on the ground.
It was a brutal tactic, yes. But the goal was to bring the war to an end as quickly as possible and without having to invade mainland Japan. The same reasoning used to justify dropping the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I had heard predictions that more conventional tactics and an invasion was expected to make the the war last at least several years longer and cost multiple millions of lives on both sides, based upon how fanatically the Japanese had defended every island and atoll on the long march across the Pacific to that point of the war. The battles of the Mariana Islands, Iwo Jima and Okinawa had certainly driven tha point home. The Japanese were prepared to fight to the last in defense of their country!
Another often-overlooked factor in Japan's surrender was that Russia had finally declared war on Japan a day or two after the first atomic bomb was dropped. Now that the Germans in Europe were defeated, Russia for the first time turned their attention toward Japan, which found itself between the Americans, British, Australians and others approaching from the Southeast, and a battle hardened million-man Russian army approaching from the Northwest.
Thank you for your service,sacrifice,courage and compassion while serving our country for freedom. ❤🇺🇸
I guess he didn’t know what the Japanese did to the Army and Marines, plus Navy
due to your content, and excellent editing your subs continue to climb..keep up the stellar work..
I’m the one who made much of the War Thunder footage lol
I read a very detailed article about a bomber crew that had been ordered to fly a mission in Japan, it was very close to what they figured would soon be the end of the war in Japan. They didn’t want to go and made a lot of grumbling about it. Turns out that one mission was instrumental in helping the emperor of Japan escaping some Japanese military leaders that were going to stop him from announcing the surrender on the radio to the Japanese people. They were going to kidnap him to keep him from it and he was actually fleeing the property with them not far behind, when the explosions hitting all around caused them to lose the emperor in the confusion. This small seemingly insignificant little raid made a monumental difference in the ending of the war.
The fire bombing in Tokyo was called The Night of the Black Snow
Obviously i wasn't there so none of us can say how we would react in the same situation.
For whatever reason something told Manny not to drop on the town. Maybe he was meant to drop past the town for whatever reason.
Maybe his mind hadn't gotten to where it needed to be for his job yet. It's easy for us to sit back and say this, or that. But we weren't there, and we didn't have our fingers on the trigger.
The RAF's fire raids on Hamburg Germany were bad too.
Love the story! How many more videos are you doing on manny?
What Manny obviously was NOT aware of was the brutal savagery of the animals he was supposed to be bombing! Their treatment of POW's and the civilians of China just proved how really barbaric the Japanese people were. I cannot find any way to condone or justify his failure to follow the orders he was given and thereby placing the plane and it's crew in possible jeopardy, not to mention the waste of ordnance and fuel.
"Their treatment of POW's and the civilians in China just proved how barbaric the Japanese people were"
- probably from someone who committed war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan 💀
the americans were also animals bombing civlilians in japan germany romania france and bulgaria strafing civilians in p51s my great aunt was one of them she was killed by a american pilot also the japanese american internment camps
This is a great video!!!!
I understand not wanting to bomb those people. I would have not wanted to either, but there are times when a person must go against everything that tells them not to do something and do it.
Yeah I'm sorry orders are orders. As an army veteran I can tell you that discipline is what it's all about. First priority is to complete the mission secondly is the health and welfare of your troops!
Maybe if Manny's brother was fighting on guadal canal got taken. Prisoner and had his head cut off then. Maddie might have thought of the war in different light
I thought is a Hap Halloran story, but great video anyway
I feel bad for the citizens of Japan, as they were lied to, alot...But if Manny had know how vicious and cruel the Japanese were on prisoners and civiians, he may have realised Germany and Japan were an evil idea gone way too far. The children and families at the home front always suffer the most, in war.
Pity is a rare thing. It does not exist in war. All their lives put at risk for nothing.
I as combat veteran can understand this WW2 was civil war in my family 7 uncles and father fought the Japanese and 9 uncles fought for Germany. I can understand not condemn his actions faced the same with cottage industry in Vietnam not bombs but flamethrower and I looked them in eye not from high in the sky.
Any can you survive videos coming?🙂
I am watching you in istanbul.
He was wrong for what he done
I wonder if all the planes that flew this mission returned safely it would be horrible to find out one didn't make it back. I'm sure there were jewish guys killed at Pearl Harbor and ones that were captured and tortured by the Japanese too so I don't understand why he wouldn't want to bomb both countries. Anyway like you said I wasn't there and war is hell. But, I would have did my best to hit the target just so I wouldn't have to go back the next night because we didn't complete the missions objective puting the rest of the B-29 crews at risk again. DO You happen to know the Tail Number of his B-29 Because I can't find it listed under the name of the plane. Because I would like to know what happened to the plane after the war or if it even made it to the end of the war intact. Great Job TJ. Your videos are awesome. I love how you don't cut corners and do all the research to make sure everything is factual. Please Keep 'Em Flyin buddy and have a great weekend. Now comes the worst part we have to wait a entire week to see the next one. Lol. But you always make it well worth the wait.
Is it true that most of the bombs dropped by USAAF bombers throughout the war didn’t come anywhere close to hitting their intended target? Does anyone know the reason behind this? Is it because of the stability of the plane? The accuracy of the bombsight? Weather conditions? Or was it just a combination of the 3?
Honestly, I can't blame Manny. I know it was war, but civilian casualties is something that we always must try to minimize. War itself is horrible and should be avoided.
Sad but true
Interesting.
War has horrible consequences for so many people. That the people we vote for or against have to make life changing decisions, we Must vote for intelligent people, not just a nice face or who is trendy. History cannot be changed, we have a responsibility to try and elect leaders who will not just look to the future, but also look to the lesson’s of the past🇺🇸
When you consider how many allied POWs were brutalised and murdered I think Manny was totally wrong not to do his assigned role, in hindsight he might not have realised this fact but he should have remembered what the Japanese did at Pearl harbour, indescriminate bombing of men and women when america was not even aware of an attack by Japan and before Japan had even declared war
Exact guy you don’t want on your side in war the weakest link dude would get you killed
The specialist is weird for blaming the people for the actions of the government
5:15: "precision bombing like we did in Europe": I presume this guy is kidding, isn't he? Then "going to the atomic bomb" to convince Japanese to surrender is the official version of the events but it's clearly controversial if you study this historical period.
10:30: "a decision that, as an 18 or 19 year old boy, no one should have to face" . Good statement but ... unfortunately this is the fate of any young soldier in any war.
First: he was sitting in an airplane which is an easier place to have philosophical considerations than on the ground ...
Second: he was aware of the German war crimes but not of the fact that the Japanese were far from free from war crimes and crimes against humanity either (Nankin or Manila massacres, Unit 731, treatment of prisoners of war, death marches, etc...) so that he made a very personal decision which could have endangered his comrades in arms while he didn't have all the facts.
Third: nevertheless I understand his moral dilemma at that moment, as human being, but that's not the way it works at war. In fact it happened to him once and then he followed orders.
Having been in the military for 30 years, I fully agree with your conclusion: war is absolute hell and can't be moral. Your mission at war, as inconceivable as it may seem, is (to make it short...) to kill your ennemy otherwise he will kill you and prevail in the end which is not what you want. Never forget the people and the cause you are fighting for. The moral side of war is just not being cruel, mistreating prisoners or committing yourself war crimes. Other than that, your job is to carry out war missions, nothing else. You are not supposed to change targets or whatever like this at soldier level. If everybody does the same thing, just imagine the consequences: you cannot endanger your brothers in arms just to spare your ennemy based on humanitarian considerations. It's awful, I know, but that's the way it is since ... ever.
Somebody said that "war is people who do not know each other, who kill each other because other people who know each other didn't come to an agreement". I hope you can understand despite it's not a very good translation since I'm not a native English speaker. Regards
im watching in germany
Ironically, before the war, Japan modified a DC-4E licensed long range bomber but never mass produced it. It was superior to the B-29. Japan also had the ability of using the Kawanishi H8K2 for long range bombing, but the experiment only rained bombs uselessly on Hawaii in their only mission. Japan haters can thank Gen LeMay for boiling thousands of Japanese citizens trying to escape in the rivers. Japan didn't even produce their B-29 killer K7W1 high alt swept wing interceptor with four 30mm cannon in the nose. MacArthur's team found the production line with 40 incomplete K7W's waiting for engines and guns.
Nonsense, there wasn't a single aircraft in the world superior to the B29 in any regard, it was the most technologically advanced machine in the world at the time, aside from the things that everyone knows about like it's pressurized fuselage it also was the first bomber in the world where radar bombing was standard on every one and not an afterthought like on the Lancaster, B17 and B24, with them special Pathfinder versions were fit with the H2X ground scanning radar system for bomb aiming, in the case of the RAF it was because they were night bombing and with US bombers it was for mission's when they reached the IP and it was obvious there was too much cloud cover for a lead bomber to optically sight the target then a radar equipped Pathfinder would take over as lead bomber, but with the B29 every one was fit with that capability, it also had a flight engineer that took work load off the pilot and copilot, it's computer augmented defensive gun system gave it a kill to loss ratio against enemy fighter's of 11 to 1, that's higher than the 10.2 to 1 kill to loss ratio of the P51 that was used to escort them, a 1947 USAAF report actually stated that the use of P51's in the Pacific to escort B29's was a waste of fighter resources that could have been better used elsewhere, it's bomb load was higher than any other bomber of the war and it could carry those loads higher and faster than any other bomber, there was absolutely nothing about the Japanese modified DC-4E that was superior in any way shape or form to the B29, it was simply not only the most advanced aircraft in the world at the time but it was also the most advanced machine in the world at the time and it's 3 billion dollar development price tag is proof of that, nothing else had so many advanced systems on it as the B29 aircraft or not.
B29s took bomb impact photos after bombs away ????
In war like in a boxing match if you don't hit the other guy he's going to hit you
Bro casually didn’t read news during 1937
Many pilots and crews who fire bombed Dresden were very vocal about the ethics of what they were doing. There's a name for it that escapes me right now but many soldiers in Europe fought an enemy that was more "white and Christian" so some intentionally shot over their heads. Soldiers are trained to kill, they're not born that way. I wasn't there so that's it for me.
The animation sure is wrong. Should be lower altitude. "... Japanese air defenses made daytime bombing below jet stream-affected altitudes too perilous, LeMay finally switched to low-altitude nighttime incendiary attacks on Japanese targets..." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay
It is not for me to judge manny god will do that but I do understand how he must of felt
If more bombardiers has taken this personal convenience and lack of grudge on their bomb runs, we would have lost the war. Or at least had to expend countless additional lives with invasion.
Skilled Japanese pilots? They had none left at this time
Only Minoru Genda's 343 Kokutai
Moral decisions are made by soldiers all the time This is not new. Greg Lucas
Oh, Manny Greer would have avoided dropping his payload on other targets if he wasn't chewed out for it. He had to. There was no way the other crewmen would've been oblivious to his miss drop over the target area. This explains why on every other mission that he took part on his payload found their mark. I'm sure this was the case. He hesitated over the target. But his actions saved lives that night on his first flight.
God Bless Manny🙏.....Thanks TJ3 👍
Shoe🇺🇸
It could fly higher but because of air currents bombs/payloads would be taken of course...
No, that's not what what was about the jet stream that affected bombing and the guy in this video has no clue what he's talking about, all he's doing is repeating the common myth about what is was about the jet stream above Japan that affected bomb accuracy, apparently he's never read the USAAF reports that discuss what it was about the jet stream above Japan that affected the accuracy of the early high altitude bombing mission's, don't forget the Enola Gay dropped Little Boy from an altitude of over 30,000 ft and a speed of 325 MPH and it detonated over a point just 800 ft from the aiming point, that was no fluke, Robert Oppenheimer would not sign off on turning over the atomic bombs to the military for their use until they proved they could achieve that kind of accuracy from that altitude and speed consistently, there was no other choice, they had to be dropped from that altitude and speed for the bomber dropping the bomb to escape it's blast.
The USAAF knew full well what the air speed in the jet stream above Japan was long before the first B29's, that wasn't what was misjudged, it was the temperature in the jet stream they had wrong, it was over 40° C warmer in the jet stream than they'd made all the calculations for to get their ballistic solution for the bombs release point to hit the aiming point, temperature affects things like air density and knowing the correct air temperature is critical for accuracy and an over 40° C variation way up at release equals thousands of feet difference in the impact point.
The Norden bombsight was essentially a computer, and like any kind of computer if you program bad values into it you'll get incorrect answers, in their case you get an incorrect ballistic solution for how far the bomb will travel after release until it hits the ground.
The reason they switched to low level night bombing is because after all the issues with developing the B29 and the potential invasion of Japan being in the foreseeable future results needed to happen, they didn't have the months it would take to correct all the values in the Norden bombsight to compensate for the difference in temperature in the jet stream above Japan that they originally made all the calculations for and then test it, that would have taken months and results from bombing Japan with a bomber that finally had the range needed to happen immediately, so they switched to low level night bombing, but who did have the months it'd take to straighten everything out for high altitude bombing was Col Paul Tibbets 509th Composite Group, and that's because the atomic bomb was months away from being ready, so their first task was to work with the mathematicians and engineer's at Norden to get the ballistic tables straightened out for releasing bombs in that temperature at that altitude and under those conditions, this included dropping lots of concrete filled duplicates of Little Boy and Fat Man to get things worked out.
The fact is had they known what the temperature actually was in the jet stream above Japan from day one the first high altitude bombings of Japan with conventional bombs would have been as accurate as the Little Boy drop was and they never would have had to switch to low level night bombing just to get things moving along and get results, but they were bombing from altitudes that no one on the planet had ever done before so like anything else when envelopes are being pushed lessons are learned.
It's a shame you put the Star and Bar insignia on the top of both wings of the B-29. It was only on the top of the left wing.
The Japanese were in some ways far worse than the Germans in their treatment of civilians and POW’s so I have mixed feelings on Manny’s decision but I also wasn’t there in 1944 or have I been even close to being in his position to even judge Manny either
RAF did same over dresden
Marines and Navy. Well, OK. I am not taking anything away from those gallant people, but the US Army did most of the ground fighting in the Pacific war. They never seem to get the credit they deserve. And the B-29's were part of the ARMY Air Corps.
Marines. not the Army, made significant contribution to our country's defeat in the Pacific War.
Europe was different but, what about the British firebombing cities like Dresden?
I forgive him
Being Jewish its clear now how they were led onto cattle cars with no fight. Not cut out for war.
Sounds like buck fever. Hate hearing religion used as an excuse. Let God and his braking of his oath trouble him more. Which I can tell it does.
God bless him. He did what he thought was right and I applaud him for it.🙏
before a comment is made we must understand Manny was there and made a moral call.
Pity is a honorable virtue.
Manny should have been court- martialed! I can understand why but he was under orders!
Sometimes, you have to fear God more than man and their consequences.
The thought occurred to me that God may have had compassion on some people down below, maybe there were Christians or people of exceptional spirituality and innocense in that partiular town that He spared through the impulse that motivated Manny.
I think he did the right thing to drop his bombs late but bombing on civilians must be a criminal thing just like what Hitler did to the British people during the blitz. Can't wait to hear more Manny Greer next b-29 career story.
War aganist civilians was a war crime, punishable by death until about the US civil war when the burning of the Shenandoah valley farms and Shermans march to the sea were done to break the Confederacy. Also in WW1German submarines had to surface and allow mariners time to get off their ship before they sank it. At least until the British used the time to find and sink the sub. Since then the concept of 'total war' has been in everybodies play book. The idea that civilians produce the war munitions in factories and transport them, making them legitimate targets.
This is a tad bit like bragging. What if every crewman did this?
I've always wondered if we had used the atomic bomb at Iwo Jima and even invited the Japanese to observe under a flag of truce if a lot of the carnage on the Japanese mainland could have been avoided.. Thanks for the video.
He did the right thing in my opinion. There is not ever anything wrong with showing mercy to a fallen foe, or peoples.
If you have never experienced a combat deployment, you don't get to question the motives or the actions of those who have.
God bless you Manny Greer!
Semper Fi
USMC(RET)
God must have touched his shoulder and sayed, "This is not your fight spare the people
I like Manny the other narrator is a TOOL :(
traitor
No one who wasn't there can speak. Maybe his crew would have a right to.