Fusion 360 Form Mastery - Part 25 - Designing an AMG Spoiler
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- Опубликовано: 22 фев 2022
- In this video we are going to look at some more applications and learn some of the key steps in the process to design a part. Since the actual modeling time would be several hours we are going to call out some of the keys and work through a design quickly, but note there are no shortcuts!
Because the model was provided to me I will not be sharing it, sorry! 
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the best way to get a part to fit against a panel is to model the part of the panel your piece is going to fit against (using geometry snapping on your 3d scan of course) and then once you have that part, in this example the bit of trunk the spoiler sits on, just combine it with the spoiler and use it as a cutting tool for the inside mounting surface of your spoiler. This way you can make adjustments to the spoiler without having to worry about changing the fitment against the car and vice versa.
I wouldlnt universally say that is the best way. depends on the resolution of the mesh and the shape of the part you are fitting. I did a spoiler for a tesla and making the high res scan into a surface would have been way more work than just pulling the spoiler down, which ended up fitting great.
I think in some, maybe many cases you are correct. ruclips.net/video/rV68nODisM8/видео.html I would generally do that if i was going to design the part with surface/solid tools. With freeform tools it really doesn't make as much sense to go to creating the surface, but again i think "it depends" :)
Nice one as usual! And even if it is CAD, it's literally subdivision modelling with the edge control and smooth and box display (SubD0) but with a little more math and less faces than in a typical SubD mesh modeling software like blender etc. , So the workflows transfer nicely when the brain connection is made
Another amazing video! Glad i found this channel! Hard to find people teaching such detailed tutorials for car parts. +1sub
Thanks for the sub! Glad you enjoyed it! Don't hesitate to ask questions. You can always email me support@caducator.com and I'll do my best to respond.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign WOW amazing! Do you think you will ever make a video on how to make molds? For example how you would tackle modeling a 2 part mold for this part for composite work or wtvr other purposes?
i certainly can :) It is tricky because it is a long thin piece. I will give it some thought. I used to do composite work but mostly hand made molds and plugs and use a vac bag setup or wet layup for motorcycle parts. I haven't actually printed a mold before. These guys in the UK do amazing work fyi. ruclips.net/video/4ND2WtEZatY/видео.html
[Question about Forms - Pull Command] Big fan of the channel, thanks a lot for all the teaching. I do have a question resulting from following this tutorial.
I have a 3D scan of a MX5 NB booth and I started designing a "ducktail" spoiler, so this tutorial was amazing. Problem that I faced is that the pull command doesn't seem to match the surface as well as I'd like.
I normally work with Solidworks, and in the past I'd use the 3d scan to cut the body, and I've got 100% matching result, but indeed for a spoiler shape, solid design is not as desirable, but when I tried using forms these were the "problems" I faced:
- Pull command would not respect that well the surface, leaving gaps up to 1mm on the curvature
- To fix this, as you advised, I added more edges. problem with this is that if you add edges alongside the spoiler (lateral plane) it'll start to introduce shape changes, meaning that the spoiler gets less "organic" because you're adding more intersections he needs to respect, having more curves. And manually adjusting these to get an organic curvature, is not easy at all! (Hope that this makes sense reading...)
- Then I had the idea of placing the edges ONLY at the matching surface to the body. In total I added 2 more edges (5 in total) so I'd have more vertices to pull to surface. This seems to have helped, but still not fully satisfied with this. I can see that one left side of boot the FORM is coming inside the scan and on the outside is at the surface? Even though I selected all the vertices.
Am I approaching something wrong here? What I'm facing now is that when I'm trying to fix this, by adding edges or other approaches, it's quite tedious to have to "re-form" the shape already with so many edges, and I'm losing a lot of time at this. Already re-designed the spoiler 2 times (at least im getting better at it!)!
Care to share some tips? Of course I'm not expecting you to fix my problem, just maybe share some thoughts on how should I approach to solve the problem of "not so perfect matching" mating to the boot?
Thanks a lot for all the valuable information you've generated and shared for free (and paid) online!
Hi Andre! Seems you have run into some issues which are not uncommon unfortunately. First here is a tutorial I did with an NB mx5 boot using a different technique. This one i built a surface off the scan then used surface and solid modeling tools rather than forms. You can go either direction but pay attention to the minimal amount of edges I used.
ruclips.net/video/rV68nODisM8/видео.html
With what you are dealing with, the only time Pull works well with a high density form is if the mesh is high density and very smooth. If the mesh is low density or if it is not very smooth then it will cause all sorts of issues.
What I have found when dealing with scan data is that Pull doesn't do a "fit". And what I mean by that is if you tell it to pull all the verts down to a mesh, it will do that. It doesn't do some sort of average. With most cars the curvature is fairly gradual and you can likely get away with it using very few edges. The fewer the better in every case! Because unlike an actual mesh, the form cage is pulling/pushing on the surfaces it will create. With a mesh it can sort of average them out.
This is not likely to work well but if you have something close you can try the tool Smooth which will do a bit of an average of the positions, and Make Uniform (under the utility menu) to try and relax the form.
One other thing I do is to manually manipulate a lower density form body and look at the visual overlap between it and the mesh. While this isn't a precise method, it is usually "good enough" when dealing with a noisy scan.
You can do the boolean subtract of the mesh from a solid body if you wish. There are 2 ways to do this. If you plan to 3d print the spoiler then you can tesselate it into a mesh body, then use the boolean combine tool to subtract the scan from the spoiler. The other way is to convert the mesh to a solid or surface. This will have a bunch of tiny triangles so less than idea, but the same way Solidworks does it unless you are using the ScanTo3D to try and generate a boundary surface.
Last tip. If you can smooth and remesh your scan to a quad mesh in another program, that will convert to a freeform body and might make it easier as a starting point. its a bit of extra steps but if you cut a section of the scan just larger than the area you want it might be feasible. There are free programs that do tri to quad remesh outside of Autodesk.
Hope all that helps!
Can you make video about "cutting with car"? I love this video! Ive got my stl today and i dont know what to do, then i saw your vid. Greatings from Poland :D
Hey Lukasz! Yeah so while designing it in Forms you can add more divisions to closer match the car. If you want to 3d print it then converting to a mesh isn't a big deal. I can get a video of that but here are the steps.
After you finish the form and it creates a "BREP" Solid, you go to the Mesh tools and "Tesselate". This will give you some options and allow you to convert the BREP to a mesh. I usually will make a copy of the body first as this consumes the solid, but it will all be captured in the history timeline.
After you have both the car and the spoiler as mesh bodies you can use the mesh tool "Combine" and use the spoiler as the Target body and the car as the Tool Body. I like to check "Keep Tool Body" so the car isn't removed.
When this happens you may need to do a little cleanup work. It really depends on the car model though. Also note this might take a bit to calculate so be patient especially if you don't have a super fast computer.
Side note, is that RMZ in the signature yours? Here in the US black background and white numbers would mean 250 class(for moto). I used to race supermoto in the 450 class and rode a lot of moto.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign Thank you for the answear! Yes it is RMZ 250 :D not mine but it belongs to my cousin. I was riding YZ125 07'. One more thing... If you want i can share with you with my mazda mx5 nc trunk scan so you can make video or smth :D Keep doing it!
Nice Lukasz! I raced an 07 RMZ450. I also had an 06 YZ250. Currently I have a ktm 450 and a 250xc.
Anything you want to share feel free to email me at support@caducator.com. Just let me know if it is something I can share or not.
Why don't you use a Connexion 3D mouse? It has been the single greatest 3d purchase of my life, ever. Turned me into a creating nut, since movement is so fluid.
I actually can't stand using them anymore. i was a big user when i did Solidworks full time cause SWx navigation is trash. But with Fusion and others I can't use it for video creation and i had come to prefer not using it. Many companies won't let me use it as they say the motion makes the users sick. I actually had one plugged in for a long time and when i didn't touch it for at least a month i just tossed it back in the closet :)
How would I find a accurate scale mesh? I want to design a duck lip with a wide body kit as per your videos but I can't find a mesh of my car
If you are planning to make the parts, the best way is to scan your own car. There are sites with mesh models for free and for a price, but these are generally modeled off of blueprints/images. You can design parts for looks, but I wouldn't try to manufacture anything off them. sketchfab.com/search?q=free+car&type=models
Great video! I took your suggestion from your other video and checked out the RUclips channel (namenotimportant). Interesting videos over there. He briefly mentioned over-building being another good option for modeling cars and car parts, are you familiar with this style of modeling? Do you have or plan to make a video/series with that approach?
Thanks Me-duh. Yeah he had an interesting style but managed to get some great content across. As far as the Overbuild method. I don't currently have any plans to cover that. Mainly because its really hard to accurately control the interface and you end up adding fillets to blend surfaces together. I think that method works okay for things like Glass/Windows or external features like intake scoops or headlights, but for the main body it is much harder to control. I think his example you are talking about was not a replica of an actual car but a pretty low detail one right?
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign Gotcha. I'll have to go back and check but I don't think it was a replica but then he also showed a few examples of a bumper so I'm not too sure. Lovin the vids you've created so far. I'll check into the over-building stuff a little more over the weekend.
Me-duh, I just did a quick example of an overbuild approach in this model. Its the AE86 from Initial D and I was building the side of the body, the hood, roof and windscreen each as their own bodies. What you end up with after they surfaces get converted is something you need to trim and then fillet. It isn't a realistic way to build most cars.
a360.co/3Iru1Tk
Here is the same model after they are converted, trimmed and stitched.
a360.co/355p58t
if you have a car model that you can go back and blend later with a loft(i wouldn't suggest it as the loft is acting up right now) or can have a fillet then it might be viable.
The only thing I use this approach on right now is the glass. To me the whole point of using a Form is to get smooth curvature continuous bodies. The overbuild method removes that. It is really used when you have trouble controlling edges tightly, but we have seen it can be done with patience and practice.
If you find any additional resources/examples please share them here. I would love to see some applications of this.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign I think you're right, overbuilding can be useful but needs to be applied to the right project. I went back to find the video and section where it was mentioned just for reference. Here it is 6:28 onward ruclips.net/video/Gf1lNAGEalQ/видео.html - I'll keep an eye out for some other examples and let you know if I find any.
Hi there! I have a question. If it is possible when working with Pull, just take the vertices of one of the sides, because they are with mirror? In that case the mirror relationship will stay?
Yes you can! That should work just fine.
Andd... lets say we have a simetry relationship in our form. When we have a not simetric mesh that we want to pull our form to it, but we want that our form mantain its simetry. What can we do?
@@miguelalfredocamposgeldres1717 well if you want to pull it to a non symmetric mesh it will break symmetry. So you will need to remove symmetry from the design to make that happen. If you try to pull it down to a non-symmetric mesh it will either break symmetry on its own (with a warning) or just not pull down to the mesh.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesignThankk U!
How/where did you get the car model?
This one specifically was sent in by a user. Some are scanned but this one was modeled. You can download and buy models online. SketchFab is a good source. Keep in mind though if you are modeling parts based of a file modeled off images it will not fit. You really need to scan it.
2:53 how do this?
switching to box display? Right at that timestamp i show how to do it in the UI in edit form and using ALT+1 on the keyboard. If you mean something else let me know.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign that was it. You didn't show it in the video, and I don't know the keyboard shortcuts
@@koocian Just after that timestamp you put say it in the video. box display is Alt +1 and also in the selection section of the Edit Form dialog at the bottom you can switch back and forth. Shortcut is definitely the best way though.
How to send this for manufacturing
Depends on how you want to manufacture it. The people I have helped with these have 3d printed them in sections and glued them together to make a mold. If you are going to do some other form of fabrication you need to work with that company to find out their needs. A closed form body once you select Finish Form is a solid, but there may be additional requirements for things like draft and pull direction depending on how you are planning to make something.
@LearnEverythingAboutDesign i was thinking to use layers of sheet metal that are cut with laser. What do you think?
@@solidfuel0 Well a part like this wasn't designed to be fabricated in that way. And unwrapping a 3d surface to a flat 2d shape so you can export a DXF is tricky (and not really possible in Fusion). Programs like Inventor and Solidworks can flatten surfaces, but in Solidworks you need to have the premium version. Inventor you need the pro version I believe. These flatten surface tools are made to flatten a complex shape so you can do things like make decals or cut fabric for composites. There are 3rd party programs like Exact flat that you can get for Fusion but it costs a lot more than Fusion does alone. Last i checked i think $1500/year
@LearnEverythingAboutDesign thanks for the overview. what if I draw the shape from sheet metal layers from the start. It will look like mine craft from the edges but then i can put putty and sand it before painting.
@@solidfuel0 In order to flatten them in Fusion 360 it would be pretty blocky looking. I would say the easiest way would be to 3d print and then do fiberglass or carbon fiber over top of it as a final part or to build a mold from it. To do it as sheet metal you might be able to do the old Buck style where you slice it and build a hammer form to hammer the metal over, but something this long and thin like a spoiler would be tricky as opposed to something like a fender.
All that work and it didnt fit bcuz you had the wrong car mesh. Its best to use your own 3D scanner to scan the part for 3D meshing.
I wouldn't even trust a 3D model i got from a Manufacturer
100% agree. I have lots of videos on this channel designing parts to scan meshes. The process is still the same, but yes don't trust the fit unless you have a scan.